Ladies-in-Waiting

Very shortly power and position. The life of a noble family’s daughter was very boring. She was staying in and not allowed any freedom. The most important thing was her reputation as a virgin. It was the reason she was protected. She was seen as a property for the family. Her marriage was politics and her main duty was to be pregnant (even though it was very dangerous and high number of women died while having a baby). The highest noble families wanted their childen to serve in court and military. Those ladies-in-waiting probably saw their position as an honor but also as a safe haven from their boring life, when they had nothing to do and nowhere to go unless it was their duty.

Diana's grandmother was one, if I recall correctly.

They would be near the QUEEN, OP

They could influence her.

If unmarried, you could potentially meet a suitor who would themselves be a nobleman.

You are surrounded by every conceivable luxury.

C’mon, I see no downside.

They wouldn’t need to fetch water or the chamber pot. You would order someone to bring it after the queen requested it.

You get to be on TV, OP.

[Quote]C’mon, I see no downside.

Somebody's got to wipe Betty's undercarriage.

Ladies-in-Waiting via Cole Porter and Miss G. Cukor.

Op here thank you, everyone. i understand their lives could be boring outside of court, it just seems like it would suck to live your days on someone else time table with limited freedoms. In the movie Elizabeth, she treated her Ladies in Waiting as like pets or slaves. They couldn't marry or fuck without her express permission.

What were they waiting for?

Are there Men in Waiting?

Great question r9. Could I as an 18th century King have a hot group of Gentlemen-in-Waiting? I know there was a medieval job where a guy held out a bowl for a king to jerk off into if he was feeling randy to avoid wasting royal seed. Is there like a fluffer position or an equivalent for men?

Can't imagine being the Groom of the Stool.

The “Groom of the Stool” was the seniormost attendant to the king. He would be a high ranking nobleman, and would attend the king when he did his “business”. Gross, but you would have an intimate relationship to the monarch.

I'm sure there were times when being a lady in waiting could be dangerous if the queen you were waiting on was overthrown or was accused of treason. Imagine being Anne Boleyn or Marie Antoinette's lady.

R7, the job varied quite a bit depending on who you served. Several of Catherine the Great’s ladies did test runs, so to speak, of Catherine’s potential sex partners.

Groom of the stool, hell. Can you imagine having to scrub Kim Jong-un’s toilet bowl ?

Anne Boleyn (later married to Henry 8) was a lady in waiting in France.

Things varied by country but overall being at court first and foremost was one of the few respectable employment situations for nobility or wealthy persons. In England and elsewhere a "lady" or "gentleman" didn't do any sort of physical labor nor engage directly in trade. Thus there were only a handful of ways for them to earn money.

Being at court not only meant the gentleman or lady in question had employment (they were paid), but housing and food not only for themselves but their servants/household as well. For every duke, duchess, earl, countess, etc... who served at court they also had their own maids, valets, etc... who came along with them.

Other perks of being a gentleman or lady at court of course was being at center of power and where things happened. No end of ladies or gentlemen in waiting were active in politics who would use their positions at court (and close to monarch and or consort) to influence things that would affect government or their own family's fortunes.

Prior to 15th or 16th century most European royal courts had very small numbers of ladies-in -waiting; this began to change at first with France which then spread out across Europe and over to England.

"The introduction of ladies-in-waiting increased in great numbers at the French court at this time: from a mere five in 1286 and still only 23 in 1490, to 39 in 1498 and circa 54 during the 16th-century. This expansion of female presence at court has been attributed to both Anne of Brittany, who encouraged all male courtiers to send their daughters to her, and to Francis I of France, who was criticized for bringing to court "the constant presence" of large crowds of women, who gossiped and interfered in state affairs; Francis I once said: ‘a court without ladies is a court without a court’.

Young queen Victoria caused a political crisis that brought down one or two of HM's governments due to the "Bedchamber crisis".

Prime example of how political and dangerous positions at court could be, in particular for ladies-in-waiting look no further than court of Henry VIII.

Three of Henry's wives were ladies to a then queen consort (Anne Boleyn, Jane Seymour, Catherine Howard), and look what happened to them.

r19, like the Duchess of RHOATL, Nene Leeks once said, "Close your legs to married men."

It's only dangerous when you try to steal another's husband and don't consider the risk of marrying a man that's killed at least one of his wives.

First of all, for the nobility of the day, back when the king was absolutely ruler, the court was the place to be, and the closer you were to the king's and queen's bodies, the closer you were to absolute power. Queen Anne rewarded her closest confidante and lady of the bedchamber Sarah Churchill by making her husband the chief of her armies, then, when his armies were victorious, giving him a dukedom (of Marlborough), and then the largest house ever built on England (Blenheim Palace), so yes, it had its perks.

Princess Margaret's lady-in-waiting, Lady Anne Glenconner, has an interesting book out about her experiences with the Princess, and even appeared on Graham Norton with Olivia Colman and Helena Bonham-Carter. I think it could be an interesting life to be the confidant of someone who is always in the news.

Being a lady in waiting had much more prestige, back when kings or queens were absolute monarchs. Then, it was a chance to become an advisor or confidante of the monarch or consort, or at least to hear what was said to advisors or confidantes.

Today it's a bit different, I think being the current queen's lady in waiting is a job, not a political career. The current ones are noblewoman, but not, I think, from the highest or wealthiest families.

Imagine a person in modern times being offered the chance to be personal assistant to Angelina Jolie, or Mark Zuckerberg. Most people would jump at the chance, even if they had to take a pay cut. The payoff was in prestige and power.

R9 At least for Louis XIII and his second son, Louis XIV’s brother

I recently read a book by Princess Margaret's lady in waiting. Quite good. Interesting to get a peek into a life that is totally unknown to he lower classes. The Ladies in waiting are usually greatly wealthy and grew up with the Royal Family. The Fathers went shooting with the kings. It is the royal social set. can't remember the name of the book!

Diana who, R2?

In the past, Kings had real power in fact all the power unlike today. Property, land, power and money could be given to you by a king or queen (and equally, could be taken away from you) but you had to get close to them. What better way than by serving them everyday. It took a number of women two hours to dress and undress Elizabeth 1 every day. For that service your father/brother could be given an estate on which all the tenant farmers paid you rent. You could be given the right to administer the collection of taxes, say wine, for which you'd get a cut. All for helping a king take a shit? Who wouldn't? Of course corruption and bribery was rampant. Slip a lady in waiting a diamond, get her to talk to the Queen about your problem/scheme every morning and through her the King. Fuck a King and you'd won the lottery. Most of the aristocracy of England can trace their huge estates and wealth back to a whore who opened her legs for a king. It did work for men too. Serve a king, earn a fortune. Suck of a gay king and the sky' s the limit, George Villiers became the Duke of Buckingham through James 1. [R9] your wrong . Being a lady in waiting to the likes of Anne Boleyn wasn't a problem. You just moved on to the next Queen.

Sorry [9]. I meant [13]. You didn't need to slip her a lady in waiting a jewel. A brace of Partriges worked wonders!

One of Anne Boleyn's ladies was her sister-in-law, Lady Rochford, who gave evidence against her and her husband (Anne's brother), sailed on as a lady in waiting to Jane Seymour and Anne of Cleves, but came unstuck as lady to Catherine Howard and ended up following her to the scaffold.

R28 Kings and queens used to change their clothing several times during the day. Clothes needed special attention because they were made from best silk etc. A certain number of people dressed and undressed them. Clothes needed to be at certain place at certain time. People who took care of them worked closely with the royal family. In Russian court their rooms were closest to Imperial Family.

r28 just the thought of oral sex before 1930 sounds nauseating. All that cock cheese form days without proper bathing. Sweat, dirt, shit, and smegma. You had better get a massive payout to put up with that royal funk.

It wasn't that hard for high-status people to have plenty of baths, R32, and many of them are documented doing so (e.g. Elizabeth I). Someone else did all the hard work carrying and heating the water of course. However there were also some real stinkers, like Henri IV of France.

Being ladies in waiting to a queen consort of yore could be dangerous, if she had an affair you had a choice between keeping her secrets and putting yourself at risk if she was found out, or betraying her secrets and making enemies of the queen and her allies. During the time of Henry VIII, for instance, waiting on a queen could be very dangerous.

And not just because of affairs. If a queen or princess fell afoul of politics and was imprisoned, "her ladies" went to prison with her. Not as prisoners, but to serve her in her prison cell or apartment, to dress her and bring her food, and amuse her during lonely hours. Princess Liz Tudor was imprisoned "with her ladies" at least once, once in a small bare cell where they all sat on a few feet of floor. Mary Queen of Scots had ladies in waiting provided during her long imprisonment, they were all spies.

I understand QUIIs ladies in waiting do stints of waiting and then have time off, unlike the ladies of old.

Really, it seems to be a job for the sort of aristocratic woman whose skills are not much in demand, they can organize parties and manage servants and do the flowers properly and chat with the BRF and be trusted with the jewels,and know how Things Should Be Done at a royal palace. And of course they couldn't possibly take a job working for some little oil.

OIK, not oil!!!

Goddamn autocorrect

Nowadays, being a lady-in-waiting is simply something to do for many older aristocratic women. They don't really serve the monarch these days, but are more of companion on public outings, to help with flowers, gifts, and to serve as an extension of the royal.

"No, I didn't actually speak to the Queen, but I spent some time talking to her lady-in-waiting, which was lovely"

It's essentially an entourage these days, in many respects.

Why the fuck would you willingly join a Queen in prison? Once you make it to a house arrest or a jail cell, their power is clearly on the decline. Elizabeth I being the exception as a future monarch in her own right instead of a spouse. Did the ladies in waiting have a choice or were they just blind followers? Someone said they were usually wealthy and Queens had servants to help them dress, I don't think there are enough conversations in the day to justify willingly going under house arrest with a Queen.

Can you explain r34?

So would Kim Cuntrashian be considered Paris Hilton's Lady in Waiting?

Perhaps once r39, but now she's a Queen compared to Paris crying about mean people at a rich kid summer camp. Kim's family is a lot wealthier that Paris' branch of the Hilton family so she wins.

Ladies in waiting always rotated in and out, as far back as we have the records. Even under Henry VIII the only one who really came to grief was Lady Rochford. You might the countess of Salisbury, but her main sin was being too Plantagenet.

R31

There are ladies and gentlemen in waiting who are drawn from nobility or wealthy/well connected; and there are servants such as dressers who perform various duties including looking after wardrobe and or even dressing (as in physically aiding).

Most famous "dresser" today is Angela Kelly who has held that office within Elizabeth II's household.

All royal ladies and gentlemen employed such persons; Empress Alexandra of Russia had several ladies who were responsible for aiding to dress, maintaining her vast wardrobe, etc.... They were left behind when the family was moved out of of house arrest at Tsarsko Selo, to put away things and otherwise see that Alexandra's wardrobe was laid away in good order. The ladies were supposed to travel onto where Nicolas and their family were taken, but after the family's arrest and eventually arriving at Yekaterinburg when the imperial dressers finally arrived they weren't admitted to "the House of Special Purpose".

R35

All gentlemen and ladies at court who wait upon the monarch, consort, etc... do so in cycles. This has been the norm for centuries and for some very good reasons.

First and foremost these nobles (especially the men) have lives of their own which includes running estates/managing their own affairs. Something that cannot be done training around after a monarch or his/her consort all day.

Being close to a monarch gives you access to power, favors, honors, titles.

They are ladies. They do lady things....and shit.

R41 Lady Rochford married Ann Boleyn’s brother. She wasn’t a Plantagenet. She gave evidence of her husbands incest with Ann. She was beheaded because she tried to hide Katherine Howard’s love affairs from Henry.

Do we know who works as Charles and Williams Gentlemen-in-Waiting? Does Kate have groupies? Not even sure if the Prince of Wales and his oldest son have their own courts like royals of the past.

Waiting at court wasn't exactly all glamour and excitement, especially back in the old days.

Scene (1:47) from film "The Madness of King George" depicts an actual event..

Charlotte of Mecklenburg-Strelitz, queen consort to George III one evening attended the theater, of course HM was in company of a group of her ladies.

One of the ladies-in-waiting was with child and during the performance became ill. Due to protocol then (and now) one does not sit in presence of royalty without permission. So a request went up the ranks of ladies to the queen seeking permission for the ill lady to sit. Queen Charlotte upon hearing said request without missing a beat to a pinch of snuff and responded " She may stand!, Lady "X" may stand!"

Thus the pregnant lady remained standing while obviously very ill. Fortunately an out of cycle lady-in-waiting was spied in audience and was asked to step-in for the ill lady, to which she agreed. During intermission the swap was made and the ill lady was taken to her London town house; she made it far as first landing on stairway to her rooms before collapsing. Subsequently the woman was violently ill and miscarried of her child.

Upon recovery said lady-in-waiting returned to the queen's service without a word ever being said.

Of course Lady Rochford and Margaret Pole are separate people, R45. I wasn't suggesting otherwise. I did accidentally leave out the word 'add' .' in 'you might add the countess, of Salisbury', who of course was Katherine of Aragon's friend and lady in waiting for many years'. Lady Rochford was Jane Parker, Lord Morley's daughter. He was made to condemn her to death, as Henry VIII also made Anne and George Boleyn's father convict them. Lovely bloke that Henry.

Frances Grey, Duchess of Suffolk became lady in waiting to Mary I, this after the monarch ordered the execution of her daughter (Jane Grey), son in law (Guildford Dudley) , and husband (Duke of Suffolk) for treason.

In film "Lady Jane) we see widow Grey bowing her curtsy to Mary I while still in deep mourning.

Being a lady or gentleman at court of Queen Victoria after Prince Albert's death was not always a highly sought position.

First and foremost Victoria shut herself away in seclusion at Osborne House or other royal residences outside of London. That meant few if any amusements and certainly no access to the "exciting" things going on in London.

Then there was the fact like her German husband QV liked her homes on the chilly side (damn freezing is more like it), so ladies (and gentlemen) soon learned when going into cycle to pack plenty of warm undergarments and other clothing.

Finally once in mourning QV used any excuse to remain or go back into full which meant declaring "court mourning" that affected those at court. One of QV's ladies lamented in a letter home that the court had been plunged into full mourning yet again because a second cousin twice removed of HM had died.

Young unmarried women (maids in waiting) newly taken on at court were advised by senior ladies about what to pack. Warm undergarments and clothing, and basically everything must (or should) be black or shades suitable for half mourning.

Needless to say between constant cold, being in mourning and fact QV kept her household on a very tight lead things often were rather depressing. As such maids in waiting often married fast as they could to get out of service. QV began to notice the trend and even remarked how one young woman in her service married "rather needlessly".

Years ago, I wrote to the Queen, and received a reply from one of her Ladies-in-Waiting. In case anyone might be interested in what it is like, I will try to describe it in detail:

The envelope is small and made of very thick paper and is postmarked on the upper right with a red circle containing the date and, around it, the words "Official Paid Balmoral Castle". Lower left is another circle, this one purple, containing a purple crown with "EllR" beneath it (Elizabeth the Second, Regina -The "E" and the "R" are larger than the ll). The flap is stamped with a red crest with rampant lions holding flags, and beneath that is the motto: "Nemo me impune lacessit". I had to look up what this means. Apparently it is "No-one harasses me with impunity" and it is the motto of Scotland, the Royal Stuarts and the Order of the Thistle. I guess because the letter was sent from Balmoral Castle in Scotland, that crest was on the envelope.

The letter inside, though, has a different crest, this time in red, with the words "Honi soit qui mal y pense" ("Shame on him who thinks evil of this") twined through a rampant lion and horse. At the bottom, it says, " Dieu et mon droit" ("God and my right"). A few lines beneath, in larger red letters, it says "Buckingham Palace".

Finally, the letter itself:

Dear [my name],

I am commanded by The Queen to write and thank you for your letter.

Her Majesty thought it was kind of you to write as you did, and I am to send you her sincere thanks for doing so.

Yours sincerely, Kathryn Dugdale

Lady-in-Waiting

Oops, "Kathryn Dugdale" is on a separate line.

R38, I cant answer your question. R34 here, I've just read in several biographies that when certain royal ladies did stints in prison, mention was made of "her ladies" being there with her. Sometimes this wasn't too bad, if the prisoner was given one if the locked luxury apartments in the Tower of London with spare rooms for the ladies, but apparently Elizabeth Tudor once shared a small bare cell with several if "her ladies", and the author of the book didnt bother to explain why they were there.

The only one time a biographer ever said exactly why the "ladies" joined a queen in prison was in a bio of Mary Queen if Scots, where it said they were all spies.

I thought the male equivalent of a Lady in Waiting was Equerry?

No, an equery is a separate job, that was originally someone who looked after the monarch's horses, and now the travel arrangements.

Ladies or gentlemen in waiting traditionally provide more personal services, helping the royal person dress or serving them food at meals, or being the Groom of the Stool. And I've forgotten if "gentlemen in waiting" is the official term, "lords.in waiting" doesnt sound right.

????

R55

That would be "Gentlemen of the Bedchamber"

R52 thanks for that. I am commanded by The Queen.... Nice rhetoric.

Equerries, Extra Equerries, Temporary Equerries, Ladies-in-Waiting, Extra Ladies-In-Waiting, Ladies of the Bedchamber....

Nothing of Transladies in Waiting? They were the first Ladies in Waiting! More historical erasure!

I once met one of Queen Elizabeth’s ladies in waiting - Lady Susan Hussey - in disguise as a fellow guest at a very grand birthday party in the Cotswolds, introduced as “and do you know Sue?”.

We had a very funny chat about “what do you buy the prince who has everything?” as she’d just been named as one of Prince William's god parents. Very friendly, very grand and just I would imagine a lady in waiting to be. She was an expert at small talk and in putting this then shy Australian backpacker completely at ease.

She’s still one of the Queen’s ladies in waiting, I believe. Oh, and her husband’s name was “Marmaduke”, which thrilled me. But everyone called him “Duke”. He ran the BBC I think.