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A guy I knew for 20 years killed himself

We were peas in a pod--two fat, unattractive closeted gay men. Both primary caregivers in our families. Both had siblings who went out and lived their lives while we did all the grunt work.

He always said that when his parents were gone he was going to kill himself.

His father died 10 years ago but his mother held on though various surgeries, two heart attacks, a bought of colon cancer, diabetes, heart failure and various other sicknesses.

Two months back her body finally gave out. He told me that in the hospital she said to him, "I can't go. I'm not ready to die. I've still got so much more to live." She was 97.

After the funeral he went about settling her estate and then after a week got in his car, drove out to his favorite secluded spot and using a hose field his car with exhaust.

The funeral was only for family because of Covid so I didn't go. On social media everyone is saying he died too young, he had so much more life to live, how angry they were for him dying.

All I can think is that he's finally free.

by Anonymousreply 147August 18, 2020 4:42 AM

ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz

by Anonymousreply 1August 11, 2020 10:58 PM

I don't mean this unkindly or smart ass... it is a sincere question: did he post here as well?

by Anonymousreply 2August 11, 2020 10:58 PM

I'm very sorry for your loss, OP.

If you're interested, I found Thomas Joiner's Why People Die By Suicide the most useful book on the topic

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 3August 11, 2020 10:58 PM

It sounds like his mother was more free than him.

Why would he settle for such a diminished life? If he had siblings he did not have to bear the whole burden himself.

by Anonymousreply 4August 11, 2020 10:59 PM

R1, is that a misunderstanding of pointless bitchery or just an inherent worthlessness?

by Anonymousreply 5August 11, 2020 11:02 PM

I'm very sorry. I was a caregiver for my parents for a long time. It's been very hard trying to learn to take care of myself once they died. Make sure you're not neglecting yourself when you're busy caring for others (I know it's easier to say than to do).

by Anonymousreply 6August 11, 2020 11:05 PM

[quote]Two months back her body finally gave out. He told me that in the hospital she said to him, "I can't go. I'm not ready to die. I've still got so much more to live." She was 97.

She'd heard that Atlantis Cruises was setting sail again!

by Anonymousreply 7August 11, 2020 11:06 PM

I feel sorry for him and your loss OP. I was that guy also. Took care of two parents for 10 years. Older siblings were a nightmare.

But I told myself if she could hang on to the bitter end, I knew I could start over. And I did. I thought about checking myself out also. Not going to lie. But I thought it was like going to the movies and missing the first ten minutes of the movie. I should just stay and see how this thing turns out. You can do that too.

Don't be so hard on yourself. You can stay for the rest of the movie also, and see how it turns out. You may even get some popcorn and enjoy it.

by Anonymousreply 8August 11, 2020 11:07 PM

My sympathies, OP. Much love and light to you.

by Anonymousreply 9August 11, 2020 11:11 PM

[quote]"I can't go. I'm not ready to die. I've still got so much more to live." She was 97.

Atta girl!

by Anonymousreply 10August 11, 2020 11:12 PM

What a sad story. For those who haven't suffered with it, depression is a very difficult thing to understand. Your friend must have been chronically depressed for many, many years. Did he ever seek therapy?

I'm so sorry for your loss, OP. Please don't take the same path.

by Anonymousreply 11August 11, 2020 11:31 PM

I'm sorry for your loss. The mother is your role model, not your friend.

by Anonymousreply 12August 11, 2020 11:40 PM

All I can say is that there are families that WILL shamelessly bleed your entire life away if you let them. They will demand full-time lifelong service, allow you no life of your own, and give nothing in return.

OP, I am deeply sorry you lost a friend, and I'm even sorrier that your friend let this happen to him. All I can say is... OP, do NOT let this happen to you, make damn sure there's at least something in your life that's just for you.

by Anonymousreply 13August 11, 2020 11:41 PM

I totally get this guy. I am one of 6 kids and my father had dementia and Alzheimer's. My younger sibling and his wife moved my father into their home, and at his expense, renovated theirs and basically treated him like shit. He was depressed and wanted to live with me, but I lived with my then partner and neither of us were officially out to our families. We got my father into a Catholic nursing home where he got loving treatment until the day he died, but only me and my oldest sibling ever visited him. His selfish grandchildren couldn't be bothered - 'we don't want to remember him this way' - even though he was hilarious during this time, ala shit my father says. When he did die many years ago now, my depression started and has lasted and all this crap with the virus, I could see offing myself.

by Anonymousreply 14August 11, 2020 11:49 PM

Like a lot of us have at one time or another, I thought about ending it all. But hope - hell, I live off the shit. I'm sorry about your friend offing himself like that. His pain must have been very deep.

I'm not young anymore or as fit as I used to be and I have a mom in a nursing home and a brother who could care less, but I'm still here. I am not ready to die. There is always hope, isn't there?

by Anonymousreply 15August 12, 2020 12:16 AM

Sorry for your loss, OP. It sounds like your friend sadly knew exactly what he wanted to do and set out to do it, but that makes it no easier for others to accept, yourself included. I've shared this before on DL, but I was a hospice volunteer years ago. One of our main focuses--besides the patients, of course--was an emphasis on "Caring for the Caregiver." Until one has walked in those shoes, you have no idea how taxing it can be. After so many years, many people's identity becomes tied up in (the mostly isolated role of) being the caregiver. When their loved one dies, they feel as if they have nothing left to live for themselves. We all need to be reminded daily that we have very little idea of other people's internal struggles. It's so easy to judge, but taking the time to listen to others and hear what's going on in their mind and their soul can benefit us all. May your friend RIP.

by Anonymousreply 16August 12, 2020 12:34 AM

I've hit low points but suicide has never been an option. It's better to just fuck up your usual routine and try something new.

by Anonymousreply 17August 12, 2020 12:34 AM

R14 Please don't think that way. You've had horrible struggles, and this pandemic isn't helping anyone's mental health. But it WILL end. We WILL get past this, and a brighter future is ahead.

Please hang in there, R14.

by Anonymousreply 18August 12, 2020 12:34 AM

Four guys I went to school with committed suicide, also my Cousin and Nephew. Nothing you could have done.

Start worrying when you've lost a few Friends to Cancer under 40. Shit happens.

by Anonymousreply 19August 12, 2020 12:35 AM

[quote] On social media everyone is saying he died too young, he had so much more life to live, how angry they were for him dying.

They're mad because he's not around to clean out the mother's house/belongings

They didn't give a shit while he was alive and I'd bet they didn't offer to help him out in any way while the mother was alive.

by Anonymousreply 20August 12, 2020 12:39 AM

OP, I'm sorry for your loss. Please continue to live a happy and productive life in honor of the life your friend didn't think he could have or deserve. He's definitely an angel and is with his parents that he loved so much.j

by Anonymousreply 21August 12, 2020 12:45 AM

I took care of my grandmother for 6 years. No one so much as offered to take my grandmother for a weekend to give me a break. But they were always expecting me to drive her to see their stupid kids in school plays or birthday parties. Then we'd get there and they'd ignore her. They just wanted ME to keep up the appearance that they were loving grandkids

I made sure they didn't get a penny when she died. If you are smart you will do the same thing. FUCK dividing everything up. That's for pussies

by Anonymousreply 22August 12, 2020 12:46 AM

R3 i went to school with "Tommy" Joiner. Great guy. intelligent. QB of football team in HS. Princeton. Recently reconnected w him. His reason for studying suicide is a sad one. Freshman yr of college his dad committed suicide. sad. But hes an awesome guy

by Anonymousreply 23August 12, 2020 12:49 AM

August 1st I lost my mom who had been on hospice for the last year. She wound up on hospice after breaking her leg May 2019 and went to a facility to rehab. She got a UTI in said facility and wound up getting sepsis which triggered a heart attack. She had a stroke in 2010 and hiccups here and there including a diagnosis of dementia, also in 2019. After she was put on hospice I had to quit work and take care of her full time since her insurance only allowed a caregiver 5 hours a day. The caregiver could only clean her. I had to administer tube feeds, medications, etc.

In 2011, my dad lost his battle with stage 4 colon cancer. He lived with it for 3 1/2 years. Hell of a fight. I didn't have time to mourn because I had to swoop in and take care of my mom. I'm not complaining because the facilities here are deplorable and I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I knew she was suffering in one of those hellholes.

My sister and brother in law came down for the service and to get my niece into college. Today, they spent the day out tuning and shopping. I spent the day in my bedroom. Yep, I wasn't invited.

When my mom died, I found out my aunt(dad's sister) has breast cancer. She decided not to seek treatment. So both my grandparents, dad, and cousin all died of cancer and now my aunt has it.

It really hit because I think I'm mourning both parents now. But honestly now I feel like a shell of myself. Completely lost.

It sucks and I really feel for you, OP. It hurts to lose a friend like that.

by Anonymousreply 24August 12, 2020 12:53 AM

Sometimes it happens to different children depending on the parent. I come from a blended family with me, a younger sister, and younger brother, as the only full siblings. We have two older sisters and a much older brother on my Dad's side. He met my mother as a student in his philosophy class, same environment where he met his two previous wives. He and his second wife were separated and some time later she and her boyfriend were killed in a car accident. He was more than an ass to his daughters, my sisters, from that marriage.

When he was dying the only one willing to take him home was my youngest brother. We all contributed financially but only visited with big mean pouts on our faces. That was over 25 years ago, and in the time since we other siblings have a better idea of how good our dad had become by the time he hit the last child. He was an amazing grandfather as well.

I'll always regret being so judgmental but I don't think it could have gone any other way. My little brother wanted to keep dad, the nice guy he had become, to himself.

by Anonymousreply 25August 12, 2020 12:53 AM

R22 - are you sure you aren't me? Same shit, different family.

by Anonymousreply 26August 12, 2020 12:54 AM

Sorry OP. I think I would have tried to help the poor guy.

by Anonymousreply 27August 12, 2020 12:59 AM

OP, you and your friend are/were good people. I lived 2k miles away from my Mom and if I had moved home my Mom would still be alive. I live with terrible guilt and miss my Mom everyday. Take a lot of pride in the fact that you have been a caregiver. I'm so sorry for your loss and I hope you are building a good life for yourself.

by Anonymousreply 28August 12, 2020 1:08 AM

I'm sorry for your loss, and I wish you all the best.

by Anonymousreply 29August 12, 2020 1:21 AM

People who commit suicide get exactly what they want, peace from their suffering, it is everyone who is left behind who continues to suffers. My only sibling committed suicide.

by Anonymousreply 30August 12, 2020 1:28 AM

OP and R14, caring for loved ones can bring so much pain, and it’s so much harder to carry the burden alone. Strangers like some of us here hold you in high regard and feel for you. Be good to yourselves.

by Anonymousreply 31August 12, 2020 1:31 AM

His mother could live until 97 because she had a son to take care of her. But who would take care of the son. Yes, it's tragic decision that he did what he did but it's quite understandable one.

by Anonymousreply 32August 12, 2020 1:38 AM

Sad situation.

by Anonymousreply 33August 13, 2020 8:36 PM

RIP. She was a good girl. No one can liver 4ever.

by Anonymousreply 34August 13, 2020 8:37 PM

The OP of this thread is telling us how miserable and dark his own life is. Get help OP. You have allowed yourself to be victimized by your own family but only you can change that dynamic.

by Anonymousreply 35August 13, 2020 8:47 PM

Preach R22 ! Ive been taking care of my mother since 2005 ,with no goddamn help from my 2 brothers or her many grandkids. Oh theyd come around when they wanted money,and her dumb ass gave it to them,but never once to take her to lunch,or shopping or a doctor appt. The joke will be on them though because I have power of attorney to all her affairs when she becomes unable to tend to anything ,and those sorry fucks are going to be VERY surprised . I aint giving them jack shit,and she has no will so they can sue all they want. Find me, you bastards ! Yes,I am bitter. I love her but my god,its suffocating. 15 years of it now.

by Anonymousreply 36August 13, 2020 8:49 PM

So let me see if I have this right, we’ve got a share of his mother’s stuff plus his stuff abandoned? Go for it, OP. It’s the DL thing to do. And if you don’t want it because you’re too depressed, do let us know.

by Anonymousreply 37August 13, 2020 8:49 PM

Op, how terribly sad for you and your friend. Yes, he's finally free, but also free of life's simple pleasures. I'm sorry your friend didn't give himself more time to recover and possibly regain some joy in his life. But you can do it for him and yourself. There are still so many things to get pleasure from on earth. Nature, books, movies, perhaps volunteer work, or other connections that get you around others. just getting out everyday for a walk can help. It's difficult right now with Covid isolation, but make some goals for yourself to look forward to while you remember your friend. I wonder if there are groups for closeted gays? That would be nice.

My partner's mother is in her late 90s, always had a lot of health problems, and now mild dementia, and although she's in a care home he has a lot of responsibility handling her meds and essential supplies, along with visits. She was always a difficult personality, I understand how depressing it can be. We can't travel for very long or consider moving for as long as she lives. She has a sibling who lived into their 100s and will soon outlive her funds which will put her into a Medi-care nursing facility, now rife with Covid. It's a nightmare.

by Anonymousreply 38August 13, 2020 8:50 PM

OP, please don't give up hope. My heart goes out to you. Like many of the posters above, I was in that caregiver situation while my siblings bailed. It's difficult to not become bitter and despair. It will take time but, please, know that your heart will heal.

by Anonymousreply 39August 13, 2020 8:50 PM

Your power of attorney doesn’t control the distribution of her assets after death, R36. Even assuming you are the sole executor, the estate will be distributed according to law. She can choose to leave everything to you in a will, but otherwise the children will share equally.

by Anonymousreply 40August 13, 2020 8:53 PM

R14, hang in there. You are a good person and we need more like you.

by Anonymousreply 41August 13, 2020 8:53 PM

What R40 said x100.

by Anonymousreply 42August 13, 2020 8:54 PM

Im so sorry OP...

by Anonymousreply 43August 13, 2020 8:56 PM

R8 wins the thread.

Sorry for your loss, OP. Have you considered grief counseling? Remember that you are not your friend. This could be an important turning point for you to see that you have choices and opportunities for happiness. All the best to you.

by Anonymousreply 44August 13, 2020 8:56 PM

R40 Oh i know that . But I fully intend to cash it all in before they figure it out and the second shes gone be vapor . There wont be a huge amount,but a few 100 thousand will set me up quite nicely in Mexico or somewhere else. Like I said,let them find me,then they can get whats left. One thing in my favor is they dont know whats there,and they are too stupid to find me once Im vanished. Trust me on that one.

by Anonymousreply 45August 13, 2020 9:03 PM

R45 that sounds like a great idea in theory, but they will find you. And their lawsuits against your mom's estate could wipe you out financially, especially if they can prove you did it willfully. Just get your mom to make a damn will.

by Anonymousreply 46August 13, 2020 9:08 PM

OP, if it's any consolation, you don't type fat.

by Anonymousreply 47August 13, 2020 9:09 PM

R40, not if there is a family trust. My partner's mother has a trust and left her home to his lazy ass brother who never visited her anyway. She had also made him sole trustee because at the time he lived closer to her but he never did a damn thing to help her out.

While she was still competent I told her how unfair that was because her good son did all the work while she was leaving the bulk of the property to lazy ass son who was trashing the house anyway. He moved in the day after she moved into a care home. it was pristine and he trashed it, covering the place in nicotine, beer cans, and stains on all the formally clean carpets. When he finally moved out of state it was left to us to clean up his stinking mess and sell the house. The mom needed the funds to say in the care home and we had to ask him to leave. Good riddance.

My partner would never have said anything, he just does what's right and hardly complains. Well, she agreed with me, we visited the lawyer and the trust was changed to name my partner sole trustee and split assets equally. With a trust you can leave your estate to whomever you wish, sole trustees be damned.

To any of you who are beneficiaries to a trust and a sibling or other is sole trustee, keep a close watch. Shenigans happen and trustees are supposed to make annual reports and account for every penny in and out. They can also earn a stipend for being trustee, and get a larger share of the inheritance if the elder person so chooses. My sister was sole trustee and did get a bit more, but she worked hard for it, being the closest in distance to our mother. We all pitched in, though, but the meds, finances, etc, were handled by my sister.

by Anonymousreply 48August 13, 2020 9:10 PM

I'm sorry for your loss. Did you get his stuff?

by Anonymousreply 49August 13, 2020 9:14 PM

[quote] He told me that in the hospital she said to him, "I can't go. I'm not ready to die. I've still got so much more to live." She was 97.

This is the funniest part. My best laugh of the day -- 6/10 just for that line.

by Anonymousreply 50August 13, 2020 9:14 PM

[quote] OP, you and your friend are/were good people. I lived 2k miles away from my Mom and if I had moved home my Mom would still be alive. I live with terrible guilt and miss my Mom everyday. Take a lot of pride in the fact that you have been a caregiver. I'm so sorry for your loss and I hope you are building a good life for yourself.

R28, if you are like me you lived 2k miles from your mother for a good reason. I loved my mother but she did not equip me to be her caretaker. She was self-centered, withholding and would have taken all of my time, care and attention like it was her reward for giving birth to me. I provided for her, paid for caretakers and enabled her to live at home until the end. My purpose and fulfillment in life was not to be found in being a caretaker for my mother. She died 4 years ago and I still dream about her. I have a twinge of guilt but nothing I can't live with.

Chin up, Sister!

by Anonymousreply 51August 13, 2020 9:25 PM

I was my mom's caretaker. Luckily, her decline was relatively quick. (Yes, I loved my mom.) One Saturday, my sister and her partner (woman) came over to "help" me. They both brought their laptop computers to work on. I ended up angry (and expressing it) because they were no help at all. In fact, they added to my work because they needed to eat, etc.

[quote] 'm sorry for your loss. The mother is your role model, not your friend.

I don't think that the 90-something year old mother is a role model. If I were her, I'd be cognizant of what I was doing to my son's life. She had so much more she wanted to do? Like what? Burden her son for ten more years? I can understand feeling like OP's friend is now at peace (after dying by suicide).

by Anonymousreply 52August 13, 2020 9:30 PM

[quote] [R40], not if there is a family trust.

One can imagine many circumstances in which the outcome would be different, but since r36 never mentioned a family trust, I’m going to go out in a limb and assume there isn’t one.

by Anonymousreply 53August 13, 2020 9:33 PM

I am heading back to my home town to look after my Dad who is ill. Just to make sure he is OK as he has been very bad. Could not have come at a worse time tbh for me. After covid and lock down things were returning to normal here. My mental health was unraveling and I needed my community to get it all back. It will be tough but I will need to do things to cope that will take a lot of will.

by Anonymousreply 54August 13, 2020 9:53 PM

God just read that back and it was dark. I just feel like things are a bit of a war with the world at times. Hard to dig myself out if it

by Anonymousreply 55August 13, 2020 10:08 PM

[quote]All I can think is that he's finally free.

I get that. I often find myself thinking that this life is taking too long.

by Anonymousreply 56August 13, 2020 10:11 PM

[quote] I am heading back to my home town to look after my Dad who is ill. Just to make sure he is OK as he has been very bad. Could not have come at a worse time tbh for me. After covid and lock down things were returning to normal here. My mental health was unraveling and I needed my community to get it all back. It will be tough but I will need to do things to cope that will take a lot of will.

R54, you can do this! Good luck. My thoughts are with you.

by Anonymousreply 57August 13, 2020 10:17 PM

Sorry for your friend OP. Stay strong. Many brave and giving people on this thread.

by Anonymousreply 58August 13, 2020 10:26 PM

This thread makes me realize so many people are tired of all the misery in life, including myself. I have been so depressed lately that every day I wake up I’m sad that I have absolutely nothing to look forward to (and this has nothing to do with the virus - I’ve always had problems with depression). I have no friends, no partner, no job, and broken dreams. I wouldn’t ever take my life, but I sure am sick of being so sad and lonely.

by Anonymousreply 59August 13, 2020 10:42 PM

R59, you’re not alone in that. I’m in the same situation.

One good thing about the internet is that while you may not meet any people in your situation where you are, there are people all over in the same situation. You’re not alone. I spent years taking care of sick family members, they are now gone and I am alone. I relocated to do that and I don’t know anyone here. I’ve been here a long time and don’t have anyone somewhere else either.

The people here my age are all couples and they do not want to know any single people. Some of them may be politically liberal, but single people are third wheels and they are unwelcome. I found that out the hard way. I don’t anticipate ever having friends here, that’s how unfriendly they are. Or else they’re scary, sketchy people. I’ve met a lot of those. And due to unavoidable circumstances, it’s not likely I can relocate, so I’m stuck.

I’m just taking one day at a time, and hoping Biden can dig us out of this hole we’re in. Then maybe I can do something.

by Anonymousreply 60August 14, 2020 12:07 AM

[quote]The people here my age are all couples and they do not want to know any single people. Some of them may be politically liberal, but single people are third wheels and they are unwelcome. I found that out the hard way.

I have experienced this too and it pisses me off. So because I’m not partnered as well I’m not good enough to talk to anymore? It’s ridiculous. I just hope they don’t think we’re going to pick up our friendship where we left off of they end up breaking up because they can forget that.

by Anonymousreply 61August 14, 2020 12:22 AM

I actually feel better from sharing this with you guys. That’s the key really- reach out

by Anonymousreply 62August 14, 2020 12:22 AM

Yes, R62. Depression finds ways to perpetuate itself. You have to affirmatively take steps to break that progression. You can do it. And you get a bit of relief from it.

by Anonymousreply 63August 14, 2020 12:50 AM

6/10.

Better than usual

by Anonymousreply 64August 14, 2020 12:53 AM

Obviously he considered his only purpose in life was the care of his parents. When that purpose was gone, he was gone. It does happen.

by Anonymousreply 65August 14, 2020 1:09 AM

OP, R14, R54, R59, & R60 I'm giving you each virtual hugs, whether you want them or not. I hope things improve for all of you.

by Anonymousreply 66August 14, 2020 1:26 AM

R66 It’s the closest thing I will get to a real hug anytime soon, so thank you.

by Anonymousreply 67August 14, 2020 1:45 AM

I have a friend who was her Mother's sole caregiver and is in a mess with one of her older siblings after her Mother didn't leave a will (the other 4 are fine about her keeping the house).

Luckily She lives in Malta and we will all be long dead when it comes to trial in about 30 years.

by Anonymousreply 68August 14, 2020 2:00 AM

So there's her stuff and his stuff up for grabs?

by Anonymousreply 69August 14, 2020 2:48 AM

The simple things in life are wonderful. The hard part is that life is a battle and people are brutal. They turn everything into a contest and a fight. But then the natural world is also brutal. If the people went away you'd have to watch out for bugs and bears and the like.

by Anonymousreply 70August 14, 2020 3:47 AM

I hope to god my parents don't live to be in their 90s. Once they go, I'm taking myself out of here. I just don't think parents should outlive their kids, or I would have done it long ago. I'm an only child, so I have to hang around, and I'll have to take care of them soon. They're currently in their late 70s.

by Anonymousreply 71August 14, 2020 5:21 AM

A friend of mine was in a similar situation. She took care of her mom while her other siblings just left and lived their lives. The mom set up a separate trust for my friend (like, two third of her wealth). When the mom died my friend got the money from the trust AND her part from the rest of the money. Of course, her siblings were fuming, but their hands were tied.

by Anonymousreply 72August 14, 2020 8:57 AM

The basic problem is that guys like OP's friend were raised to be obedient little slaves with a very specific purpose in life. Without that purpose they are lost, and they were never allowed to learn how to move on, adjust and look for a new purpose in life. For someone so lost, suicide is a very valid option.

by Anonymousreply 73August 14, 2020 9:02 AM

That's so last week OP.

by Anonymousreply 74August 14, 2020 9:37 AM

I’m in that same boat with a lot of you, got stuck taking care of elderly relatives. I hate myself more everyday for sticking around, knowing whatever life I thought I’d want is slipping further from reach. My worthless relatives never lift a finger to help with anything. I totally understand not wanting to continue on after the “job” is over, being a caregiver sucks away all sense of self.

by Anonymousreply 75August 14, 2020 9:39 AM

Your parents made their choices. You should each make your own choices. If you want to take care of your parents, that's commendable. But if it's not for you, it's not. You certainly do not have to do it on their terms.

I was raised in the midwest and left for NYC as soon as I finished college. When my mother got old, I told her to choose. If she needed nursing home care, we could set it up in the midwest and she could be near whatever friends and family members remained living. Or, we could set up in the NYC area. But under no circumstances would I be returning to the midwest for a protracted period of time, sacrificing my life so that she did not have to sacrifice anything for hers. She immediately responded that she would rather be in the NYC area near me. "Your life is there. Of course, you would not want to leave." Bless that wonderful woman. She nailed it.

Don't give up your jobs and your homes and your friends to return to your parents' home, unless you really want to do that. And not as in 'do it for them.' They are adults. They were making hard decisions all their lives. They can accept responsibility and make choices. There is no reason to sacrifice your life to enable a selfish choice on their part. Talk with them. Make a plan that serves everyone. But take care of your own needs, too, in that plan.

by Anonymousreply 76August 14, 2020 12:30 PM

T4 Trust me, siblings don’t always help. Some even make the situation worse.

by Anonymousreply 77August 14, 2020 12:42 PM

^R4, I meant

by Anonymousreply 78August 14, 2020 12:43 PM

OP, I'm sorry for your loss.

by Anonymousreply 79August 14, 2020 12:50 PM

It’s likely that this is the last generation willing to do this. What’s going to happen to old people when no one is willing to stop their lives for them?

Notice the same thing in all these stories. The child puts their life on hold for the parents; the parent dies and there is no safety net of any kind for the child. The only people that do okay in this scenario are married women whose husbands support them. Even then, if they divorce, they have no benefits or pension and they’re screwed.

No one is going to be doing this going forward. No one can afford it.

by Anonymousreply 80August 14, 2020 1:24 PM

[R80] So true, especially since college educations cost a fortune nowadays, families don’t have nest eggs for longegevity. We can’t afford the cost of being alive anymore, yet people are regularly living into their nineties. My parents are divorced, in their eighties, and both remarried to younger people. There’s nothing I can do to help either one right now, but I expect that as they approach ninety we will have some difficulties.

by Anonymousreply 81August 14, 2020 2:12 PM

I think society in general will go back to the family model where several generations live in one home and take care of each other. Some work to bring the money and other family members take care of the home, watch over the kids, take care of the elders, etc.

And that's not necessarily blood relatives and spouses only. I can see that with gays, lesbians, and trans happening too.

It Trump's America has shown us one thing it's that you can't rely on the government to work in your favor and that you need a support system that not only supports you but also values your contributions and talents.

by Anonymousreply 82August 14, 2020 2:27 PM

I don't understand how this happens to people with siblings.

I'm an only child and, well, duh, the care of my elderly parents falls on my shoulders, but I don't get losing your identity in it. I'll never understand people who become so devastated with grief after losing a parent that they cannot function. But maybe it's different for only children because caregiving isn't "dumped" on us the way it is with people who have multiple siblings? I don't know.

by Anonymousreply 83August 14, 2020 2:33 PM

I thought car exhaust now has much lower levels of carbon monoxide and this is no longer an effective way of killing yourself.

by Anonymousreply 84August 14, 2020 2:53 PM

So many gay men miserable because they sacrificed their lives to be “a good boy”. My lesson from all of this - and attempting to care for a mother in her 80s - is don’t sacrifice your life for hers. Just like i will have to take care of myself and deal with what comes the . Guilt is a useless emotion. Don’t let it drive how you live YOUR life. At some point, I had to stand for myself. I’ve decided we all have to take care of ourself first. Too many stories of gay men in depression dying after a life spent caring for old mothers. We deserve a life for ourselves.

by Anonymousreply 85August 14, 2020 3:03 PM

The thing is attitude.

When you hate what you are doing, what kind of outcome do you expect from that? No matter what kind of reward you will receive it will never make up for the time and energy you wasted on something you hate so much. Not only will you resent the past (and the people in it), you will also resent the reward which is a constant reminder of said past.

If you genuinely believe you do something right and good, and don't believe it's a waste of time and energy, the reward will be most satisfying.

by Anonymousreply 86August 14, 2020 4:04 PM

[QUOTE] R82 I think society in general will go back to the family model where several generations live in one home and take care of each other. Some work to bring the money and other family members take care of the home, watch over the kids, take care of the elders, etc. And that's not necessarily blood relatives and spouses only. I can see that with gays, lesbians, and trans happening too. It Trump's America has shown us one thing it's that you can't rely on the government to work in your favor and that you need a support system that not only supports you but also values your contributions and talents.

R82 That sounds fucking depressing and would definitely have me heading for the suicide option.

by Anonymousreply 87August 14, 2020 4:24 PM

[quote] TThat sounds fucking depressing and would definitely have me heading for the suicide option.

So, what you are looking for, reasons to live or to kill yourself? If you like to end your life, you don't need Datalounge for that. Your Debbie Downer attitude is all you need.

by Anonymousreply 88August 14, 2020 4:31 PM

[quote]I think society in general will go back to the family model where several generations live in one home and take care of each other.

You mean the model that COVID-19 is currently wreaking havoc on?

by Anonymousreply 89August 14, 2020 4:35 PM

OP. I am so sorry for your loss. For many, this same scenario is occurring more frequently because of the pandemic. Suicides are increasing and depression is much more prevalent in today's world.

by Anonymousreply 90August 14, 2020 4:44 PM

This is an amazing thread! Hang in there, OP!

I never knew datalounge could be so kind and compassionate. Just reading this thread has actually helped me emotionally.

Bless you guys (and of course, OP!) and thank you so much for sharing everything that you all have here.

by Anonymousreply 91August 14, 2020 4:48 PM

R83, caretakers *aren't* so devastated with grief they can’t function. They are people who have just lost everything, a purpose in life, a “job,” often a place to live, financial support and don’t have many, or any, friends, while their relatives who did absolutely nothing to help, share in the assets left by the parent they cared for, and are rewarded for ignoring the parent the caretaker threw their life away on.

One day you wake up and realize everything you sacrificed for years is not valued by anyone, and you’re left financially insecure, friendless, and without emotional support for the rest of your life.

Many times these people are criticized as “lazy,” and told because “you didn’t want to work” you deserve to be thrown into the street with nothing. Because dragging someone to doctors’ appointments, cooking and cleaning for them, and begging them to eat balanced meals isn’t “work.” It’s worthless to anyone but the person that just died and left you alone in the world. A lot of times the elder is angry and bitter they’re so disabled, and takes it out on the caretaker, constantly verbally abusing them and accusing them of being greedy and selfish, and coming up with wild paranoid fantasies that the caretaker is some kind of monster. Meanwhile the caretaker toils on in this thankless job, isolated and unappreciated by anyone, out of a sense of duty.

When my mom got sick, I didn’t take care of her because I thought I couldn’t live without her, I did it because I have two totally irresponsible siblings and I knew she would have ended up homeless in the street without my help. If she had ended up in the street begging for food, they wouldn’t care. They are a couple of narcissists that don’t care about anyone but themselves. Imagine giving a sick elderly person to Trump to care for and you’ve got it. He would let them rot right in front of his eyes and be totally unmoved. That’s my siblings.

I couldn’t do that to her. She would have been terrified and alone and hungry. She was too mentally impaired to do anything for herself, or apply for any aid. She couldn’t do it. That’s why people do it, not that they’re obsessed with their parent.

by Anonymousreply 92August 14, 2020 4:54 PM

R88 If I'd wanted to live with my Parents forever I would have moved into their basement at18 instead of leaving home. Your option would be [BOLD] living death. [/BOLD]

by Anonymousreply 93August 14, 2020 4:58 PM

There are always sad sacks on Data Lounge who moan and weep about how they will not want to go on when their parents die. They won't know what to do. It is all too unbearably sad. There's no point.

It's fucking expected that you will outlive your parents. Also that adults should carry on after their parents die.

How sad that these people reach deep, deep into adulthood and learn no adult perspective, regard themselves as having no purpose xcept to call Mother 27 times a day and visit her twice. Do they have no curiosity other than which drug store has a 10% senior discount on Tuesday morning? No interest other than putting pills in a SMTWRFS container every Sunday night?

by Anonymousreply 94August 14, 2020 5:06 PM

You can't kill yourself with car exhaust anymore. This never happened unless the friend had an ancient car.

by Anonymousreply 95August 14, 2020 5:48 PM

R95 Which, based on his friend's description, was highly likely.

by Anonymousreply 96August 14, 2020 5:51 PM

When your family decides that you will be the default caregiver, they will never let you walk away from that. They will make sure you stay where you are in life so that they can live their own lives guilt free knowing that someone else is doing the grunt work.

Until the money is ready to be decided up, then they crawl out from under their rocks with their hands out demanding their "fair share".

by Anonymousreply 97August 14, 2020 5:52 PM

R95 drives a Tesla.

by Anonymousreply 98August 14, 2020 5:53 PM

[quote] I don't understand how this happens to people with siblings.

People pull rank all the time. "I have a husband," "I have kids," blah blah blah. Happens at work, happens in families.

by Anonymousreply 99August 14, 2020 6:21 PM

I took care of my mom before she died. I also administered her estate & dealt with her stuff (semi-hoarder) by myself. Mom predeceased my grandmother (mom's mother), who bequeathed my mom 1/3 of a share in her house, passed down to me and my siblings.

After grandmother died, then, on behalf of me and my siblings, I dealt with my mom's siblings re: the house proceeds. Not so much fun!

After all that, my older sibling (divorced) asked me to be trustee on his disabled (now adult) child's trust. I initially said yes. For now, my older sibling is the trustee, so my duties would kick in after sibling died. I envisioned a day when I'd be trustee & dealing with my sibling's ex-wife and all her family (think Sante Kimes). I told my older sibling that I changed my mind, I don't want to be referee. Younger sibling agreed to be successor trustee instead.

I initially felt guilty b/c child is disabled, but I've done my share. Point is: it is possible to say no. Now, I have no regrets.

by Anonymousreply 100August 14, 2020 6:27 PM

People complaining about other siblings not helping - pit her in a nursing home and let them share the cost. Self sacrifice for “love” is a dangerous game with little reward. I would counsel everyone to learn to overcome their guilt to avoid becoming a bitter, poor, lonely old man who wasted his life on guilt.

by Anonymousreply 101August 14, 2020 6:33 PM

R76, great post, you have a smart and caring mother.

by Anonymousreply 102August 14, 2020 7:02 PM

I just wish there was a simple, painless way to end it. A pill that just put me to sleep, and I never wake up. Sadly, most suicide options not only seem painful, but have a high rate of failure.

by Anonymousreply 103August 14, 2020 7:39 PM

I could tell you more stories than not about entire families that dump 100% of the responsibility on one overburdened person. Then they can’t understand why that person has no life, when mom can’t be left alone because she’s forgetful, or dad needs care numerous times a day and going to a movie is impossible. Forget about going away overnight or hanging out with a friend. So they gradually get dumped by their friends.

My dad had a brother and a sister. Both siblings and their spouses went to visit the parents weekly at different times so they were being visited several times a week. They cooked, cleaned and made household repairs. They split it evenly and communicated with each other so somebody was always at hand. They all lived about an hour or two away. My dad was in poor health so he wasn’t able to do much.

Families should split the responsibility. It’s easy to mock and ridicule these caretakers, but if their siblings were willing to pull their weight, it wouldn’t take up their entire life. Maybe a few days a week, which would mean they could do something else too. The fact that someone is overburdened and overwhelmed ought to tell you that there’s a whole bunch of other people not pulling their weight in most cases. Even if you’re a thousand miles away, you can write a check towards having a caregiver come out a day or two a week. That would take it off the shoulders of the caregiver and give them some free time. Some people think they’re shitting on their parents by not helping out, but they’re really shitting on their sibling who is stuck doing it all with no help. Then they think the caretaker is to blame for being depressed.

It’s amazing to me how many people despise these people. Really think they’re dirt, for doing a dirty job nobody else wants to do. They criticize them and try to make them feel ashamed of themselves for caring for elderly, difficult relatives. Why? Do they get their jollies thinking they’ll never be the old man or woman with a nurse wiping their ass? I bet that’s what their parents thought too.

by Anonymousreply 104August 14, 2020 7:59 PM

R67 You're welcome. I hope you're feeling a bit better today. I just sent you another.

by Anonymousreply 105August 14, 2020 8:08 PM

My sympathy and thoughts go out to OP, R14, R24, and many others here! We love you and hope you continue posting! I've been here for over 20 years, this board has helped me through many things. Sometimes just venting or reading others' struggles on holidays or through this shitty pandemic. As an only child of aging parents, not one to ask for help (not close to extended family anyway) I feel like some of these fates are just looming.

by Anonymousreply 106August 14, 2020 8:16 PM

Well, who knew, but this car exhaust thing no longer will kill you. Things you learn on DL.

by Anonymousreply 107August 14, 2020 8:19 PM

R103 Please call the suicide prevention hotline. You need someone to talk to. They can help. 1-800-273-8255

by Anonymousreply 108August 14, 2020 8:27 PM

R106, if they’re still in relatively good health now, relocate. At least get a few years of making a life for yourself, and if you’re physically not available, maybe they’ll be encouraged to find another solution while they’re still capable. Too many Greatest Generation parents had an abject fear of nursing homes or live-in helpers, and they insisted their kids care for them in their homes until they died. Now Boomers are getting to that age, and most of them had to care for their parents and know the pitfalls.

Your parents need to make some plans for their future besides, “I know junior will gladly put his life on hold for me for the next thirty years.” It’s easier to figure that out if you’re not there picking up the slack.

by Anonymousreply 109August 14, 2020 8:38 PM

I know a guy who gets up at 5 am every morning to go make breakfast for his elderly father. After he has breakfast with him he goes to work. He goes back every day at 5 to make his dinner and spend the evening with him. He's single with a small business,probably in his 50s. His sister takes over the middle of the day and lunch shift. Seven days a week.

He's the sweetest person. Kind and friendly, a really hard worker. They are an immigrant family and I know they do this out of love for their father. It's really inspiring. He must have a terrific father to be so dedicated without complaint.

by Anonymousreply 110August 14, 2020 8:52 PM

My Mother would prefer to go into a care home than have me as a caregiver.

I'm the least responsible person that I know, I don't even have pets as I forget to feed them (a few dead Goldfish will vouch for that).

My Mother knows that she'd either starve to death or be left in her own faeces if she had to rely on me, despite that we get on pretty well because she's quite similar.

by Anonymousreply 111August 14, 2020 8:53 PM

[quote] I know a guy who gets up at 5 am every morning to go make breakfast for his elderly father. After he has breakfast with him he goes to work. He goes back every day at 5 to make his dinner and spend the evening with him.... His sister takes over the middle of the day and lunch shift. Seven days a week.... They are an immigrant family ...

The difference is that the sister does a share of the "work." Also, the stereotype of Americans is that children are on their own at age 18. The flip side of that coin is that parents are also on their own (after child turns 18).

Also, different cultures feel completely different about parent-adult child relationships. No, I would not want to live in a multi-generational house. But maybe I wouldn't mind it if that's all that I ever knew.

by Anonymousreply 112August 14, 2020 10:21 PM

[quote] Until the money is ready to be decided up, then they crawl out from under their rocks with their hands out demanding their "fair share".

Do not take care of a parent until you get the money situation sorted. After 2 years of taking care of my grandmother, I realized that I was doing all the work, so I needed to get all the money. She sold her home and moved in with me and all her money/investments were put in joint accounts (her and me). When she died, nothing had to be signed over

by Anonymousreply 113August 15, 2020 12:14 AM

R112, it’s common in some cultures for the kids to live at home until they marry. I knew a Filipina at work whose mother cooked and cleaned for her and made her bed for her until she got married. She said when she had her children she would do the same for them. I can see how somebody who was raised like that would want to take care of her mother in her old age. She had an idyllic childhood.

My dad quit paying child support for me when I was sixteen. His new gf said that was enough, so he stopped. Today I read on Reddit about a fifteen year old whose dad remarried after the mom’s death, and the new couple threw away all the pictures of her mother and the new stepmom was overheard loudly telling a friend she hated the kid and wanted her out of the house. When the girl told her father she was moving in with her grandparents, her dad “looked shocked” and didn’t say one word in protest. He knew why, he just didn’t care. That whole thread was full of adults who had the same thing happen in their teens. A lot of stories about dads who just wanted to throw their kids away after the mother’s death or divorce. A few bad moms, mostly mentally ill or drug issues. A lot of the grown kids were going no contact fairly young, so those parents can’t expect a selfless caretaker child when their marriage breaks up. People just don’t put up with that any more.

People that got treated like that as children don’t see why they should bend over backwards to care for their parents in their old age, and I can see why.

by Anonymousreply 114August 15, 2020 2:56 AM

"... but his mother held on though various surgeries, two heart attacks, a bought of colon cancer, diabetes, heart failure and various other sicknesses. Two months back her body finally gave out [age97]"

This is criminal. People have got to be allowed to die. They keep pumping these oldsters full of medicines, operating on them long after they should.

by Anonymousreply 115August 15, 2020 3:30 AM

Kind of off-topic, but I had 20 cats at one time. It just happened that way. I would spend all my off-work time vacuuming, cleaning litter boxes, preparing food, grooming... I didn't want to become one of those sad stories on TV where the person became overwhelmed and we all lived in filthy, ammonia-smelling house.

But I felt like a slave. No relationship, no friends, no free time for myself. I started living on credit cards to pay for it all and went into debt. I lied to people and told them I had 7 or 8 cats. Never had visitors.

When one would die of old age it would be sad, but also kind of a relief. I rent a house and my landlord never knew, just cashed the checks. But I lived in fear that the house would be sold or I'd be evicted and where would we go? It was just a lonely, scary time.

I'm down to six now- all in their teens- and it seems like a lark. You never know what kind of private distress people are in.

by Anonymousreply 116August 15, 2020 3:48 AM

“I would spend all my off-work time vacuuming, cleaning litter boxes, preparing food, grooming... I didn't want to become one of those sad stories on TV where the person became overwhelmed and we all lived in filthy, ammonia-smelling house.”

R116, I feel like that now, and I have one cat.

by Anonymousreply 117August 15, 2020 4:31 AM

R116, I'm glad you got the cats situation under control. Sounds like it was an overwhelming situation.

by Anonymousreply 118August 15, 2020 6:48 AM

Some of us die from a slow suicide through booze, drugs, unsafe sex, shitty life choices too.

by Anonymousreply 119August 16, 2020 2:53 PM

R119, I've always said that when people use drugs or abuse alcohol because their heads are so fucked up, it's just a slow suicide.

by Anonymousreply 120August 16, 2020 3:22 PM

life may not be worth living right now, but if you don't stick around, you won't see whether it could get any better or not.

by Anonymousreply 121August 16, 2020 3:58 PM

[quote] [R88] If I'd wanted to live with my Parents forever I would have moved into their basement at18 instead of leaving home. Your option would be living death.

If you hate your parents so much I can understand that, but you also included the non-blood family part of my quote.

If you want to truly make it on your own that's ok, but don't be a drama queen and claim suicide is the better alternative than being part of a support system helping each other.

by Anonymousreply 122August 16, 2020 4:13 PM

R121, I can assure you, as I look around at the world, and at my advanced age, life is never getting any better. It's all a downhill slide from here. The only question is how fast or slow.

by Anonymousreply 123August 16, 2020 5:29 PM

Who said that I hated my parents?

I just don't want to live with them or anyone else (other than my husband of 30+ years).

by Anonymousreply 124August 16, 2020 5:31 PM

r124, You don't hate your parents and yet suicide is the better option than being part of a community? Yikes.

by Anonymousreply 125August 16, 2020 6:03 PM

R125 I also don't like Hotels, so we hire villa's and apartments when we go on vacation (never with friends). A cruise would be my worst nightmare.

I really value my personal space.

by Anonymousreply 126August 16, 2020 6:15 PM

I’m just now getting out of bed at 2 pm. I have woken up about 3 different times since 9am and each time I kept throwing the covers back over my head because I am so sad and I just wanted to cry and go back to sleep. I feel like I have nothing to look forward to. I don’t even want to get out of bed now but I will.

by Anonymousreply 127August 16, 2020 6:58 PM

I don't know how to fix any of you. Just know that life is short, so you may as well have some fun along the way, because you'll be dead a looong time.

Find things that interest you, besides cruising for hotties on apps.

by Anonymousreply 128August 17, 2020 12:01 AM

The 'fun' is all behind me now. At this point, my life is little more than just sitting here waiting to die.

by Anonymousreply 129August 17, 2020 10:53 PM

R120 The alternate view sometimes is that self medicating may just enable some to carry on... and ultimately avoid suicide. It may not be the healthiest of choices, yet it's at least choosing to live in the moment, and resist giving up entirely.

Something to ponder really. Many go through periods in their lives "abusing" something on occasion during the rough patches, but they hold their own and often level out after the crisis or struggle has passed. I've witnessed it before in many different personality types. Those with some substance abuse don't all live the same scripts or plots.

by Anonymousreply 130August 17, 2020 11:53 PM

R127 I hope you're feeling better today. I'd like to suggest something that helped me during a very dark time in my life. Try forcing yourself to go through certain motions each day, and put yourself on a fairly strict schedule.

After reading a small booklet by Pema Chodron (one of the Shambhala pocket guides) She had shared the uplifting effect of forcing herself to get up, to shower, (and she made a point about selecting a favourite strongly scented soap, or other toiletries you enjoy) and to put on her favourite, most colourful shirt. I believe she ironed it as well, but I may confuse that with another booklet.

It may sound meaningless to some, but when a depression has taken a firm grip of you, things which give you strong sensations can sometimes prove a respite for your thoughts, and shake you loose or free for a bit. Sticking to some regular schedule is better than too much sleep. Try to go for a walk after you've enjoyed your sybaritic bath or shower. (Don't forget to be mindful and grateful as you walk.)

Who feels worse after a shower? It always helped me immensely. I hope you try it. Perhaps try reading some Pema Chodron as well.

by Anonymousreply 131August 18, 2020 12:12 AM

131 You seem to have discovered the secret to beating Clinical Depression, who knew it would be so simple?

by Anonymousreply 132August 18, 2020 12:16 AM

R132 No, I can't claim that necessarily. I'm not sure if my darkness qualified as Clinical, and I didn't claim a cure. I'm just trying to be kind and I found that very ritual to be instrumental in getting myself out of bed during such a dark time. I found it to be a process. The shower was the first baby step.

I found other things to be helpful, but the regular shower, putting on nice clothes, and forcing myself to go out for a walk proved to getting me around the corner. Schedules are important for depressed individuals, that I know to be true. Reading Chodron and meditation helped as well.

What I've suggested isn't controversial, has absolutely no side effects, and is easy to put into practise. It doesn't cost anything either. What might you suggest other than a cunty attitude?

by Anonymousreply 133August 18, 2020 12:26 AM

R133 Cunty attitude works better for me than superficial joy verging on mania, I'm not contemplating becoming a 'cheerful idiot' to make others happy.

by Anonymousreply 134August 18, 2020 12:39 AM

R134 Where exactly do you find this superficial joy verging on mania in the advice of a Bhuddist nun on depression and sadness? I fear you suffer something a bit more malevolent than depression yourself.

The cuntiness may play well on other threads, but this particular one, not so very much.

by Anonymousreply 135August 18, 2020 12:48 AM

R135 I've was diagnosed with Clinical Depression when I was in my early teens 40 years ago, it's never gone away. You get through every day the best you can.

by Anonymousreply 136August 18, 2020 12:59 AM

R136 Then you ought to understand the value of fresh air, sunshine, exercise, and leaving the bed. I'm sorry you're still depressed, but you don't have to be an insulting fetid cunt you know.

It doesn't cost anything to be friendly, or kind. Perhaps you could redeem yourself and give R127 a kind encouraging word or two, or share something small that has been beneficial to you. My advice to you is to get out your own head, and have some compassion for someone else. Especially one who has the courage to lay bare such raw emotion as R127 has. You say you've been there, or still are.... Time to change up your game plan. Maybe striving to be a massive cunt all the time isn't where it's at mate.

by Anonymousreply 137August 18, 2020 1:20 AM

R137 Go fuck yourself. I'm rich, I don't live on welfare and we have a few nice houses. I've been with my Husband for 30+ years and have learned how to manage it (with a bit of Lithium, and a Psychiatrist). I don't need a preachy twat with no insight telling me to get a shower.

by Anonymousreply 138August 18, 2020 1:34 AM

R138 Doesn't sound like you're managing too well, actually.

by Anonymousreply 139August 18, 2020 2:02 AM

No snark or shade. I'm so sorry for your loss.

by Anonymousreply 140August 18, 2020 2:04 AM

R139 It's managed as well as it will ever be and I'm not going to kill myself today or tomorrow. This is how it runs.....

by Anonymousreply 141August 18, 2020 2:34 AM

R141 Are you also R127?

by Anonymousreply 142August 18, 2020 2:44 AM

R142 No, I've been dealing with it much longer. It wouldn't even phase me if I got up at 2pm and sat in my pyjamas all day. It wouldn't even be the worst day of the week

by Anonymousreply 143August 18, 2020 2:54 AM

R143 Well try to calm down a bit darling. I never told you to take a shower, my recommendations were a direct response to R127. I'm sorry my advice set you off. Please keep in mind it's a choice whether or not we become bitter in the face of what obstacles we're presented with.

Buddhist literature isn't for everyone, yet it was an immense help to me. I didn't think it was preachy, and I had hoped perhaps it might help R127.

Shalom

by Anonymousreply 144August 18, 2020 3:08 AM

I’m sorry for your loss OP. That is very sad. Sending you love and a hug through the Internet.

by Anonymousreply 145August 18, 2020 3:20 AM

Agree with a bive that a temporary abuse of substance is a way that a lot of people - for a long time - have worked though temporary difficult times. The challenge is knowing what’s a major depressive condition that is biologically-driven and unchanging. And what’s temporary abuse vs a life of addiction.

by Anonymousreply 146August 18, 2020 3:48 AM

R138 Im not unsympathetic to your condition but having suffered from depression quite a bit over a lifetime I feel comfortable in saying to you that you sound like a real drag to be around. I learned decades ago that it is in fact MY problem and try (and mostly succeed) to keep it to myself and not make it an aspect of anyone elses life. I saw no purpose in dragging everyone else into my spirals,still dont. I just get quiet .You sound angry ,and hostile . For someone who claims to have a comfortable life and the luxury of meds and a shrink ,you still manage to come off bitter and angry.

by Anonymousreply 147August 18, 2020 4:42 AM
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