Democrats & Homelessness

What is the “hard” position?

What would you propose doing about it, OP? Seems there is just no easy solution.

Soft on what issue?

Being homeless is not a crime.

Homeless numbers increased thanks to Reagan.

R3 how do you figure? I thought it was a combination of deinstitutionalization and failure to build enough.

r3

No it didn't. The homeless population was driven by the closure of the mental institutions which started in the 1950s. Despite TV sitcoms homelessness is virtually never the family of father, mother and two kids living in a cave like on Silver Spoons. It's mentally ill people or criminals.

Personally they shouldn't release pedos, but I know many on this site feel sorry for them instead of their victims.

Throw them all into hospitals. The homeless near us in LA are fucking nuts

R6 some people would say that’s inhumane. Many of the state hospitals were considered terrible places to be.

Ultimately the only way to reduce homelessness is to build. Some cities have done better at this than others. NYC has actually done pretty well at this. And yet its homeless numbers have gone up and up and up.

R4 and R5

You guys on datalounge always talk about housing in terms of homeless de-institutionalization, but Reagan did a lot more than that.

I can go much further into detail if you like, but Reagan also cut HUD's budget by around 70%, which meant that the subsidies that used to support public housing projects for poor working people and those who couldn't work evaporated literally over night. The idea was to switch to more public-private partnerships using tax credits instead of direct funding, but those tax credits didn't roll out until the late 1980s. And the apartment buildings that would be built or renovated with federal tax credits weren't built until the early 1990s.

The entire 1980s was a complete collapse in funding for affordable housing, and many of those people became homeless. That was all because of the Reagan administration.

(I can talk more about this if you like.)

^^^in terms of the de-institutionalization of the mentally ill, I meant to say

R8 please do.

Homelessness was worse in NYC in the 70s. That was before Reagan.

Another Trumptard troll thread.

Reagan was elected 40 years ago. He's been out of office 32.

Yes, fuck right off op. Your hero is going down. Reagan owns the homeless problem and that includes the meth heads in the red (for now) states of Ohio and West Virginia among others

The only reason it shows itself in blue states is because they have compassion. Your fucking party would just as soon see them die you worthless piece of human shit.

The guy in 0P’s picture can come stay with me.

OP drop dead

"Devron Vernal, 26, a sexually violent offender convicted in 2015 of physically overpowering and having sex with a 4-year-old girl. He was sentenced to four years in prison" Wtf? I thought you guys are more reasonable when it comes to this, than us Europeans, and your judicial system is much better

[quote]Despite TV sitcoms homelessness is virtually never the family of father, mother and two kids living in a cave like on Silver Spoons.

Except one of the kids in that episode was Joey Lawrence and now he's broke, so they got that part right.

Another weekend, another right wing troll invasion.

Republicans cause homelessness.

This is now being talked about only because it is now really affecting New York.

Lots of schizophrenic Dataloungers who see Russians EVERYWHERE!!!!!

[quote]Reagan owns the homeless problem

I guess in your mind if you repeat that enough it becomes true.

Reagan died in 2004, everybody.

R8 I would like to know more. I think the history of public housing as I’ve heard it focuses more on when the country moved to demolishing high rise public housing in most cities in the 90s and we don’t hear too much about the 80s or how we got there.

This isn’t a Dems issue, it’s a complex problem that unfortunately does not lend itself to easy solutions. There needs to be involvement from legislators, law enforcement officials, mental health communities, public health, social services, just to name a few. We need to have public discussion about the realities of why homelessness exist.

R26 and sadly it’s a problem nobody cares about until it hits them. People don’t want to think about it. Out of sight, out of mind .

Let's build them housing that they'll destroy. Let's offer them rehab services they'll ignore. What most of them want is the bottle, the drug or the playground. They don't want to be saved. They can't be saved. If you want a Cinderella story, watch Cinderella. But no one is going from a back alley to the board room.

It's not out of sight, R27 if you live in any city or get off any freeway exit.

[quote] Out of sight, out of mind .

Not in NYC.

There are no social safety nets and our healthcare system is terrible. People from other countries with strong social systems do not get that in the US, if you are broke, there is no one to save you. The benefits given (with the exception of the one time pandemic stimulus) are not enough for someone to live on and the system makes it very hard, especially if mental illness is involved. And some people prefer to live on the streets. I'm sure there are restrictions with free housing that many would not or could not abide by. American really does need to be made great, but not by Trump. It's really sad and inhumane. Human rights should include education, medical care, food, and a roof over your head.

“Jul 26, 2020 · The latest crime figures show that the violent crime toll is growing faster in rural America than large urban states”

Democrats promote policies that keep people from becoming homeless in the first place.

The republicans cause homelessness and should be on the hook for cleaning it up.

R31, nice! 👍🏼

Did you even read your own link R32? Your quote is from a 1990's report that your link goes on to say was "flawed." Your link then concludes later: "since the beginning of the twentieth century, federal statistics had demonstrated a consistently higher rate of homicide in urban as compared to rural areas."

R31 Those rules with which mentally-ill, drug-addicted, criminally-minded people cannot abide by are also rules that ensure safety for other residents.

I agree that we should have basic safety nets for vulnerable citizens, however what you’ve described is the ideal utopia which never happens in real life. In real we have people with the attributes described in the first paragraph who pose danger to not only those in their proximity, but society at large. While commendable, your proposals are Pollyanna-ish and nothing but a wish list.

From working with jail psych population, I can say that most of them who wind up homeless and the in jail via revolving door system are hard cases to crack. The ones who need mental health and/ or substance abuse treatment are given help. But most either deny help or they fuck up opportunities given to them. I can’t tell you how many times they get clean or treated in jail, only to get released on programs (which include housing) from which they promptly get kicked out. They get kicked out for violent behavior, drug use, selling drugs, threatening violence, and damaging housing property among others.

What we need to focus on is to give priority to the homeless who are homeless by life circumstances. Drug addiction and mental health issues shouldn’t rule you out IF you want help. Similarly, if you’re homeless due to unfortunate events or bad choices, we should provide you with help.

The problem with homeless population is with the refractory cases, the ones who return to the streets by choice. The ones who consider criminal activities and jail to be respite from street life to which they always return.

R36, of course, it's a total fantasy wish list. Although I do look to England with their dole, 3 months notice of termination of employment, NHS, council flats with some envy. It's my belief that these should be human rights for all, but I know it's not happening. I live in LA and have lived in SF. In SF, I volunteered for the SF AIDS Foundation which is like an LGBT Center - comprehensive care for the community. Their philosophy was that if they offer needle/crack pipe exchanges with users, mobile showers, toilets - they will keep coming back. The more comfortable they are to come back, the more receptive they are to getting tested, and then mental health care, finding housing. Even in 2020, there are still gay children getting kicked out of their homes every day and ending up in places like LA where they statistically lose everything and start using drugs for survival within 5 days of arriving. I really appreciate the work that the LA LGBT center does for the community, not just gay. Same with Strut/SFAF

[quote] The problem with homeless population is with the refractory cases, the ones who return to the streets by choice.

But isn't that 90% of them, or at least the ones we see on the streets?

R38 Yes a majority have serious problems hence they’re long term homeless. It’s not the sole problem of Dems as this thread suggests, it’s just blaming Dems/ liberals for promoting homelessness. There are multiple reasons why people end up homeless, mental health and substance abuse play huge roles in this, and solving those problems would only be a part of the overall equation.

Until people stop blaming and start to dissect the issue from all perspectives including not adhering to political ideologies, then we’ll never have solutions.

R37. Thank you for your reply and thank you for your volunteer work. Yes I totally agree with free needle exchange and similar programs. It’s just like patients with substance abuse issues on top of mental illness, as mental health professionals we’re not supposed to tell them don’t use drugs ever again because we’re going to make them not trust us and not come back for their psych needs. Because everything we do has to do with harm reduction. You have to get people to accept help if you want them to get better. That goes for helping the homeless population. Get the ones who are willing to be helped off the streets. This is where I think more funds and services should be invested, so that people get enough support to become and stay independent and off the streets.

It should be a two-pronged approach with first addressing acute concerns that affect public safety and health. Putting homeless people in hotels is partially right in theory but wrong in execution in most cases, such as in NYC. Simply providing shelter without any limits of behavior will not solve anything, in fact it might make the problems worse.

r39 democrats *are* the problem in the sense that they are pandering to the leftist extremists in their party who are zero barrier social activists. The rest of the community, including other marginalized people, are victimized by the impact of their policies in the real world. Moderate leftists who support these projects to garner votes & look woke risk alienating moderate supporters who have to live with their effects. The media are either access lackeys, careerists a/o activist writers. There are no impartial journalists anymore, so the general public doesn't know how bad it really is for those who have to live, work & travel around zero barrier projects, especially housing.

The first order of business is to get these people on disability, which most clearly qualify for. How to go about it is a challenge. How do you help someone apply who has no address, no checking account, and no ID?

The Republicans don't give one shit about the homeless, they are just using the crisis as a weapon. Why don't THEY come up with a solution?

One problem with homeless is that well-meaning IDIOTS (in my neighborhood give them money when they panhandle. It’s like feeding raccoons.

We’ve got a regular crew on the UES and most of them are harmless. But there are a couple of aggressive ones and they are disruptive, and frankly, scary.

There is nothing the NYPD can do except offer them “services”, which they routinely reject. Why should they? They have free WiFi and phone charging, food, shelter when it rains and the suckers hand them cash all day long. One couple has a padded wheeled chair that they take turns sitting in and they have a little Bluetooth speaker they hook up and blast music. The woman pisses in the doorway of an empty storefront on 86th St in broad daylight.

Hi R25 and R10,

Thank you for your notes! I'll be on later tonight to talk more. (I usually try not to think about work on the weekends, but I will for you guys.)

Reagan's housing policies are still in place.

[quote]The first order of business is to get these people on disability, which most clearly qualify for.

No! You don't give people who can't take responsibility for themselves money. The majority of homeless are people who can't manage their lives. Only a tiny percentage are people who have had some hard misfortune.

And there lies the problem. What do you do with these people who don't want to help themselves? They just want to sit around all day and shoot up or they have mental problems that need to be addressed.

R46 Exactly. You don’t give money to people carte blanche simply because they are homeless AND have obvious mental health/ behavioral issues. Give them disability checks and I guarantee that money will be spent within a week with liquor stores and drug dealers reaping the main benefits. Then it’ll be back to petty crimes until the next paycheck comes. Giving money and housing should mean stipulations such as attending day programs for substance abuse, work training for those able to work, and regularly scheduled drug tests.

Why is every liberal's knee jerk reaction is give people money?

r47 the Canadian government did just that with the CERB (Covid emergency relief fund). They decided to approve all applications without proper checks (unless they were obviously fraudulent). Their rationale was if people were ineligible they'd claw it back a) when people transitioned to EI, or b) on tax returns.

Of course, all the addicts applied, many had dealers who "encouraged" them to do so. Largely as a result, there have been OD spikes in many cities. Activists used it to push for a free drug supply, instead of looking at the real reasons it happened.

If you want to prevent homelessness later, fund mental health care and child protective services now. I have received indigent health care and been in treatment with homeless people. Most of them have mental health issues that they self treated with alcohol or drugs, some starting when they were still in grade school. At the point they wind up on the streets, they have both untreated mental illness and substance abuse issues, which makes them very hard to treat and hard to bring to functional status. If they had received treatment as children, teens or even young adults they might have avoided addiction and reached some level of functionality, even full-time employment.

As mentioned above, this is a multi-pronged problem. We also need to address the immediate problems of homelessness. If ever you deal with people who have no interest in funding programs to end homelessness, let them know it's a public health issue. They should support ending homelessness for the sake of their own health.

Yes, absolutely, get tough on the homeless. That's what I taught.

Why won't Democrats listen to my teachings?

Homelessness is a problem without a solution until you put these people in tony areas, high end shopping districts and gated communities. Then something might be done.