Chrissie Hynde To Women - If You Don't Want Catcalls Don't Dress Like A Hooker

People hate her for telling hard truths and common sense. Like Graham Linehan getting banned for saying "men aren't women". People now want everything both ways in their narcissistic world.

r1 This is not "telling hard truths and common sense." It is victim blaming/shaming.

R1 You know women get catcalled in winter clothing too? Or do you only listen to "truths" that feel convenient to agree with?

Love her madly but she has a lot of internalized misogyny . She is always very hard on women while making excuses for the men who gang raped her (her own fault, she should have known better) and the man/men who beat her. Making excuses for the men who left her to raise her children on her own and so on. She wants to be a cool girl, she is not like the other girls.

It's better to leave clothing out of the debate on rape.

As a gay man, I would, indeed, like women to dress differently; I don't want to go out on the street and have to look at their completely naked legs, exposed cleavage, and bare back. And I also don't see why women's pants need to be so tight and reveal so much of the shape below the waist. Skimpiness is too normalized in female clothing; imagine male shirts that leave men's chest exposed just above the nipples. Imagine men going outside with shorts like the one below, only covering their crotch. And it's not just clothing for "sluts" or low class women that exploits female exhibitionism. High-end fashion does the same.

But I very much doubt this has anything to do with rape. Indian women dress much more modestly and still suffer more from sexual harassment and violence.

You can kind of tell what kind of woman she is just by looking at her. She's a "not like the other girls" girl. Basically a cunt who wants the boys to think she's cool. Fuck her.

If only she cares about people as much as she cared about animals. She’s been a PETA shill for years so I lost respect for her a long time ago

R5 = posting from the tribal regions of Pakistan

[quote] As a gay man, I would, indeed, like women to dress differently; I don't want to go out on the street and have to look at their completely naked legs, exposed cleavage, and bare back. And I also don't see why women's pants need to be so tight and reveal so much of the shape below the waist. Skimpiness is too normalized in female clothing; imagine male shirts that leave men's chest exposed just above the nipples. Imagine men going outside with shorts like the one below, only covering their crotch. And it's not just clothing for "sluts" or low class women that exploits female exhibitionism.

Here's the thing, you go on and on and on about this, but you don't know anything, such as what percentage of women are raped while wearing skimpy clothes. You're just a fucking piece of shit who's stuck in the middle ages and wants to run his mouth about shit he doesn't know a thing about

Most women don't wear revealing clothes. Rapists will rape anyone. Rape is about power. I feel like I'm talking to a retarded person. The fact that you don't know this makes you sound like a trumper

One out of three women are raped in their lifetime. Even if a third of those women wore revealing clothes, that leaves 22% of the female population who are raped who wore regular clothes (similar to the ones you wear - pants and a shirt). I'd do the math for you, but I have a feeling you don't understand anything with more than 3 zeros . I worked in an Emergency Room in Brooklyn for a decade. Most rape victims that came in were not dressed in skimpy clothes.

R5, ignorant and proud of it. He wears his ignorance like a badge of honor

My mom has been saying this for decades.

Chrissie sounds a lot like that other ugly woman-hating woman Patti Smith.

Wtf, r9?

r5 was expressing an aesthetic preference, and one I share. Clothing is way too revealing these days, whatever gender is wearing it.

That said, committing rape is about violence and power and the perpetrator is entirely at fault, whatever the survivor isn't, or is, wearing.

Chrissie dresses and talks like that because she is ugly.

Chrissie has entered the "you kids get outta my yard" stage of her career.

I mean realistically she's right that this is how the world works. But no one denies that. The argument is just that some people think it SHOULDN'T be that way. Whereas this tells you that she thinks it's just fine.

Last time Chrissie was trending it was because she blamed herself for getting raped. I guess because she was careless and put herself in a dangerous situation or something like that? Again, practically speaking, there are things you can probably do to make it less likely to occur--but sometimes you can't. Maybe people should be judged more for doing the bad things than doing silly things that increase their risk. And where's the line? At what point do you you decide the victim's fault? I know this isn't what she said, but I wonder if she thinks "hookers" deserve to be raped too.

This isn't a new sentiment for her, OP - she said this when her book first came out.

I try to remember she's pushing 70 and probably has a different point of view from that perspective.

By DL standards it’s pretty mild

One of of the baddest rock chicks ever, but ugh, between the PETA stuff, veganism, and now this - I just want to hear her play music. She is a good and engaging interview if she sticks to music.

I see lots of young ladies walking around in short shorts and very tight clothing. If you are going to look like a sex object you're going to be treated like one.

Why do so many female rock stars lose their minds in their old age? Exene Cervenka has also gone off the deep end.

She's partly right and partly wrong, which is where most of us are, most of the time. Here is what she said about her rape. She took "full responsibility," which is too much, but it's more than most young people take for their choices which at least put them in the doorway of certain situations. Whether taking full responsibility is better than developing a victim identity, who can say. It seems to have worked for her.

Chrissie also knows how to play the press — she's been giving interviews for 40 years (and was a reporter for NME before that) and knows you have to hyperbolize a bit to get attention, especially now.

[quote]“Technically speaking, however you want to look at it, this was all my doing and I take full responsibility,” Hynde said. “You can’t f— about with people, especially people who wear ‘I Heart Rape’ and ‘On Your Knees’ badges. … Those motorcycle gangs, that’s what they do.”

[quote]“You can’t paint yourself into a corner and then say whose brush is this? You have to take responsibility,” Hynde added. “I mean, I was naive.”

[quote]“If you play with fire, you get burnt. It’s not any secret, is it?” she concluded.

She's lucky that she's too old and irrelevant to be cancelled.

Another old rocker who should keep her mouth shut. This is something my Republican 80 year old grandma would say.

She hates pretty women. Because she never has been one.

Rush Limbaugh used (uses?) her song as the intro to his show and she does "not give a fuck."

She has an interesting and valid view of her unique experience, interpreting her own behavior as "playing with fire", but why does she think that is relevant to other women?

Because they asked her, r26?

I thought the comments were from her book "Reckless" (link at R21), not solicited by female reporters.

[quote] In an interview with the Sydney Morning Herald, the musician said: "How you dress and how you present yourself to the world is totally how people will treat you.

They asked her “ How does what you wear affect what people think of you?”

It’s very hard for people to admit something was out of their control. Speaking from my own experience with rape, I slept a lot better with that mindset, too, at least initially. After a while you realize that that’s poison that you can’t carry with you.

“You can’t paint yourself into a corner and then say whose brush is this? You have to take responsibility"

... is a great lesson.

Good advice.

Smart woman.

She’s not totally wrong. First of all, she’s not saying women deserved to be raped for dressing skimpily. Just that dressing skimpily will get you no respect. And that is a universal life truth. Women hate to hear it but they’ve been conditioned to think dressing skimpy is sexy. It’s not. It’s vulgar and tacky.

It’s hard to take women seriously when they’re dressed completely inappropriately for the situation they’re in, which they often are nowadays. Cleavage out and butt cheeks hanging out of the bottom of your shorts? Sure, fine for home and the beach. Not fine for school, work, the mall, the airport, a church, a holy site abroad, etc but there we have it, we’ve all seen women dress inappropriately in such situations (but never a man, thereby making women subconsciously seem really stupid by comparison).

And as for her blaming herself for rape, it wasn’t her fault obviously, however, she is right to blame herself for putting herself into an inherently dangerous situation. Same as when I yelled at my sister for going home to a blind date’s house because he wanted to show her his “kitchen remodel.” Are you fucking kidding me? You got into the car of a totally strange man you met two hours before? Lucky he was a decent guy but what a way to place yourself in danger. If I put my hand in a snakepit, chances are I’ll get bit.

The reality is that women have a sexual power over men, and I don't know how many of them are taught about how that power works.

Women are taught to protect their delicate flower and that they have agency and power over their own bodies, and all that is true.

But if you're teasing a guy to feed your ego, don't be surprised if they want to follow through all the way.

You should be able to be butt-naked after ravenous foreplay and call everything off the second before penetration, and a sensitive straight guy will comply. But how many straight guys are that sensitive?

"The reality is that women have a sexual power over men, and I don't know how many of them are taught about how that power works."

Oh, those poor powerless men!

Useless apparently.

R11 and R13 Besides being weak, calling women who don't give a shit about their looks ugly is pretty ineffective.

I've thought about this in terms of how I used to go over to guys' apartments for hookups via Manhunt or Grindr.

If I'd gotten fucked there against my will, it maybe wouldn't have been, in Whoopi-speak, rape-rape, or my fault-fault.

But it would have been some percentage my fault. And that doesn't mean innocent.

Also, Hynde is almost 70 years old and has spent her entire life around men. Not very surprising that she thinks this way.

And if Chrissie doesn't want to be called a cunt, she shouldn't be a cunt.

I REALLY don't think she cares if you call her cunt. Unless you do it directly but then she'd probably stab you R39

[quote]She's lucky that she's too old and irrelevant to be cancelled.

[quote] Another old rocker who should keep her mouth shut. This is something my Republican 80 year old grandma would say.

[quote]She hates pretty women. Because she never has been one.

These are garbage comments. She was raped. She's not a psychopath or fool by any measure; she is a great artist. She wants to impart to other women what she can, via her experience, so they might avoid her experience. Taking shots at her age or looks is pathetic and does nothing.

r11 Yes, thank you. I said clearly, both at the beginning and at the end of my post, that I think clothing has nothing to do with the rape debate. r9 conveniently copied only the middle paragraph of my post, because she knows that her rabid answer would have no justification under the context provided by my full post, in other words, she is tempering with my argument so she can have the opportunity to play victim. People like r9 are the reason why there is misogyny in Datalounge.

[quote]Rush Limbaugh used (uses?) her song as the intro to his show and she does "not give a fuck."

Years and years ago (early-mid 90s, I think) Chrissie ordered Rush not to use her song. He did anyway, so Chrissie made him agree to pay a certain amount of $$$ each time the song is used...which she donates to PETA.

Clever girl. I love that.

I see that the loudmouth drunk is still bitter that no men notice her when she walks down a street.

I never dressed like a hooker but still got catcalls...has something changed?

It just seemed like a tradition when I was young, if you were female and you went past construction...

There's also, obviously, a lot of points along the continuum when it comes to this topic. It's not as black or white as the headlines make it seem.

I don't think she's suggesting women all wear burqas. But there's a difference between someone wearing less clothing for comfort, and someone doing the Kardashian look at a club.

Just like no one ever deserves to be shot by cops for a minor offense (or even most major ones), no one ever deserves to be raped. But all of us have to be aware of ways to minimize our risks. I knew from a young age where not to go or where to avoid to stay out of the way of homophobic assholes. Some people are bold and have the drive and the will to fight back; I never did. Some people want to wave the red flag in front of the bulls. Sometimes they win, and sometimes they get gored.

"Minimize your risk" would be the best and most politically correct way of saying it, but Chrissie had a book to sell, and the Pretenders have a new album next month (sounds good by the way) and as R21 pointed out, Chrissie was a writer for NME in the UK and knows how to play every SINGLE note of the game. So she's done this to no doubt get clicks and attention.

Yes, as gay men we learn this from an early age. Women, with their sense of entitlement, don't.

I wish I could walk down the street holding my boyfriend's hand. But I can't. And I know if I was to do so I would be inviting harassment.

Not harassment because we deserve it, but just because that's what we get.

Until we can change society, there's no point acting like we don't know how to stay safe.

"“You can’t paint yourself into a corner and then say whose brush is this? You have to take responsibility,” Hynde added. “I mean, I was naive.”"

Yeah, and not a word about the piece of shit who raped her.

Carly Simon beat the shit out of her one time at a Joni Mitchell concert in NYC.

Actually, it was the other way round.

It's why I love Chrissie.

She didn't beat Carly up, supposedly that's an overstatement, but she shook Carly a few times, pointed at the stage and said "That's a REAL singer up there!"

R49, well, is there evidence? After so many years you can't just accuse someone, without some kind of proof.

R48,

[quote] I wish I could walk down the street holding my boyfriend's hand. But I can't.

Just very curious - where do you live?

I love that she is an animal advocate and her music is good. Met her once and she was a sullen cunt. She is right about about clothes (on women AND men) dictating how we perceive one another. For example, a Karen would probably not scold a black men dressed as a Paramedic, nor would construction workers whistle at a nun. The power of clothing, especially uniforms, is interesting and irrefutable.

I’ll be honest, if. If see a young man sloppily dressed at work, or a yoing woman wearing cheap, revealing clothes and garish makeup, I assume low intelligence.

Regarding the Rush use of her song, I recall that too. I I used to listen to him to be outraged and for a while he had to play something else while they were in discussions. I think this was early 2000s?

Minimizing your risk, as R47 wrote, is sensible advice. A woman in a skimpy outfit at a club is expected. The same outfit worn at church or at an elementary school is piss-poor judgment. Dressing in revealing clothes will often attract the attention of the wrong people. That doesn't mean a woman showing off her bits wants to be assaulted.

Hynde has a point, but there's no guarantee being covered up will keep you safe from rape. Nuns in their habits have been raped. Pre-pubescent girls have been raped. Women without makeup and wearing baggy clothes have been raped. Butch lesbians have been raped. It needs to be said often: rape is not an act of lust. It is an act of violence and control. Rapists get off on hurting and humiliating someone against her will. Rape is a crime of opportunity, not a crime motivated by lack of clothing.

There's also that victim blaming tone. Other victims of crime do not get blamed like rape victims. No one says:

"You shouldn't have been driving a fancy car if you didn't want to get carjacked."

"You got mugged? Why were you carrying your wallet with money inside?"

"Someone ripped your diamond necklace from your neck? That's what happens when you wear jewelry outdoors."

People like Hynde smugly place all the responsibility on the victim. Not a word on the rapist's accountability for his crime. She needs professional help for her issues.

Oh Chrissie honey, even if all women wore burkas men would catcall them too.

At her age she should know better.

[quote]Oh Chrissie honey, even if all women wore burkas men would catcall them too.

No, they wouldn't. There are very few countries in the world where women are completely covered and catcalling is definitely not socially accepted in any of them.

Dressed like a hooker.

When men wear sexy clothes, they're called gay and may be beaten at any moment.

If someone says "you look very pretty in that dress, " that is a compliment. If someone says "yo honey why don't you bounce on my cock in that dress," that is harassment. It does not matter what you wear, Who the fuck is she to decide what is slutty and what is not.,

R33 Absolutely. It’s just a reality, most women are taught this. The clothing issue bugs me though, the overly sexualized products offered to women/girls takes away some of their agency in this respect. When my niece and nephew (7/6 years old) came to visit me last summer, we went shopping for something to wear to the beach, all of the girls clothes were short, tight, and sheer compared to boys clothing aimed at the same age group. It was difficult to find clothing for girls that was comfortable and didn’t show excessive skin. We landed on neutral colored boys clothing.

[quote] If someone says "you look very pretty in that dress, " that is a compliment.

According to a lot of radical feminists, that's also harassment.

Seriously.

R57 Actually yes, people do say, “you shouldn’t have had your wallet in your back pocket on the subway,” Or worn jewelry that attracts attention (see Meryl’s ring in Heartburn) or can be easily yanked. At least, in NY, anyway.

She's right and everyone knows it. People are too afraid to tell a women her clothes are two sizes too small, that they look thirsty and attention-seeking, and they don't have to dress "sexy" everyday for all occasions.

R61= Jussie Smollett

"How you dress and how you present yourself to the world is totally how people will treat you."

Yeah, no. Even if it's true that if you dress like a sex object, people will treat you like a sex object, the opposite is certainly not true - that if you DON'T dress like a sex object, you won't be treated as such and can magically avoid all sexual harassment and rape.

Ask black people about being properly dressed - e.g., business casual/suburban dad clothes, suits - and acting "right" and if that magically prevented them from being profiled, being followed around stores, being questioned about their presence in a particular location, etc.

She's talking about catcalls - not RAPE for crying out loud. God you people jump from one thing to another. She never said women deserved to be raped based on what they wear.

How you dress in the world IS how people will react to you and treat you. That's all she fucking said.

But there are some exceptions - racists, homophobes and sexist pigs will always treat people poorly no matter what.

I don't 100% back what she said - particularly when you see the hidden videos of women walking around NYC minding their business and get all sorts of comments.

R65: New Yorkers aren't known for being tactful. I doubt those same finger-pointers would blame themselves if they became the victims. Still, it's holding the victim more responsible than the criminal (who should possess something called self-control).

It's just being realistic, R70.

No, you shouldn't have to risk being mugged when you out, but that's the world we live in.

Riding the Subway in the '80s with a huge diamond ring is foolish.

R70. Its just known in NY. You don’t wear eye catching jewlery on the subway if you’re a woman and men don’t just leave our wallets in our back pockets on the subway.

R69: Actually, she talked about rape (her personal experience and the subject in general) in the Sunday Times magazine a few years ago. It was widely publicized and she got backlash for saying the following:

“If I’m walking around and I’m very modestly dressed and I’m keeping to myself and someone attacks me, then I’d say that’s his fault. But if I’m being very lairy and putting it about and being provocative, then you are enticing someone who’s already unhinged – don’t do that. Come on! That’s just common sense. You know, if you don’t want to entice a rapist, don’t wear high heels so you can’t run from him."

That's what some of us are reacting to, not just the quotes on this thread.

I was cursed with big boobs and was uncomfortable with the attention that brought so i always dressed down concealing my tits. I got harassed endlessly and mercilessly regardless so I cam say bullshit on dressing "modestly" to avoid harassment. Men love putting women in their place and demonstrating their power by putting women down.

Chrissie should see "The Accused" and have her consciousness raised... Enticement isn't a word or act a rapist will concern himself with: he will rape regardless of the woman's attire or actions.

Male or female, you can dress how you want and should expect to not be harassed or assaulted. I hate when I see people using the "she was asking for it" reasoning when someone gets assaulted.

I think there is a disconnect here between what we think should be and what actually is. No one is saying someone was “asking for it” or “deserved it,” but this is not an ideal culture and if we are smart, we act with care.

We should be able to leave our doors unlocked. We don’t, because there are opportunistic criminals out there and always will be.

I don't remember asking Chrissie Hynde how to dress. I guess I could dress like her and look like some homeless person.

Didn't she start banging Ray Davies while he was married to someone else?

R7 But (non human) animals are way more important than humans. She's still an idiot for saying what she said

Someone needs to remind her,

[quote] If someone says "you look very pretty in that dress, " that is a compliment.

No....it's LITERAL VIOLENCE!

As a straight woman I can tell you my opinion - Chrissie is 100 percent right. Its almost not possible to be a woman and not realize the effect how you carry yourself can have on straight men who need to get laid or just want to have some sex. I realize that as a youngish women you make the decision - so I want to get this attention from strange men or not and then you dress/ behave accordingly. I have no judgement but I can tell you that I see women who have let themselves go and I say to myself WHY? AT the same time I see women who use their sexuality to get EVERYTHING. Like my boss wife. She is a "model" who carries herself as little miss sexy who can't fend for herself, her bare bikini ass on instagram. Her hubby don't mind because men love that, he feels like he got something. She got the trobeca loft, Hamptons home etc and she aint never worked a day in her damn life. Her career is being a sexy woman. A real woman knows how to turn it on when its worth it.

I did hear that she did her thing and got around back in the day

If the majority of men walked around wearing tight tank tops, tight ass-hugging short shorts and flip flops, women of all ages would laugh and openly mock them.

I’m friends with Carly and she did beat the shit out of her. She was drunk off of her ass.

I agree with her. Better to be a lady in the streets and a whore in the sheets. In this world, I don’t see the advantage of people thinking you’re a cheap whore. Better to go with “respectable”.

A lot of women don't seem to realize that buying clothes in sizes that actually fit makes your ass and body look the best it possibly can.

children get raped. dogs and cats get raped. handicapped women get raped. babies get raped. fat women get raped. ugly women get raped. elderly women get raped. comatose women get raped. homeless women get raped. men get raped.

none of them are the problem, nor are their clothes. straight men are the problem.

Women aren't required to look like they were dressed by the collective straight male gaze.

R90 and yet so many of them do. You’ve only to look at Instragam. The quiet desperate of girls and women applying distorting filters (even successful feminist author uses a filter to appear more childlike), showing off their asses and pouting with “duck lips.” This is all to capture the attention of straight men.

Successful feminist author J.K. Rowling, that is

she is not fucking right, If a woman wants to walk around naked that is her prerogative. You don't invite harassment. It is the person harassing you that decided they would do it. Extend her fucking logic to what she is really saying, she was asking for it. So what Pedo's are not guilty because little molly looked hot her Justice outfit? Fucking hell.

If I want to spread my legs and finger bang my box on a public park bench, you better not react.

isn't it strange that men whip out their diicks in public to piss and yet noone accuses them of "enticement" to rape?

R83, so you are speaking for the whole 52% of the world population?

Before trying to be a spokesperson for 'your kind' educate yourself first. Rape and sexual assault has nothing to do with 'sexual urges' or str8 men 'wanting to get laid' and all to do with violence, the will to undermine, harm and dehumanize another human being. That is why it is used as a weapon of war and you are able to hear of men who are also raped, not because they are provocative, but as a means to break their spirit.

R5 brings up interesting points. In our culture, men wear as much clothing as possible, while women wear as little as possible. Watch your evening news anchors. On the hottest summer days, men will still be wearing three-piece suits. Women, on the other hand wear short-sleeved blouses and dresses (and even sleeveless cocktail dresses) in cold wintertime. And also, look at Trump's latest mouthpiece. Yes, she's young and she wants to show off her body that she starves herself to achieve, but it seems disrespectful to me to wear a summer dress with spaghetti straps to your own press conference. Of course, every man attending will wear a three-piece suit.

Why don't men wear short-sleeved business shirts? Why MUST they always wear a jacket? Why does no one question this phenomenon?

[quote]She wants to be a cool girl, she is not like the other girls.

A lot of the Boomer rocker chicks are exactly like this, Debbie Harry to some extent, Joan Jett definitely.

R83 may be trying to speak for all women in the world but she's barely coherent enough to speak for herself. So worried about those poor straight boys who "need" to get laid! So concerned about women who "let themselves go!" Sad that she doesn't have anything real to be concerned about.

This happens as you age. It's called getting bitter.

Female news anchors should wear suits, same as the men, not sleeveless cocktail dresses.

Supreme Court justices should wear robes if the same length (Day O’Connor wore a shorter one) and should not wear silly lace doilies at the neck.

A little dignity goes a long way.

R89 Yes, cause gay/bi men don't rape children, animals, handicapped... only those bad straight men. You forgot to put white

Women should be able to go anywhere at any time and dressed how they like, public decency permitting. Women’s clothes are not the problem.

Women have to own up to their weird slutty princess Kardashian-wannabe way of dressing like they are barely contained in their clothing if they want their me-too message to stick.

R103, you watch too much reality TV. I know we are in lockdown, but taking breaks and going outside will do you good.

R102 No, there are enough goodwill and thrift stores that we don't have to see insecure chick's bare arms, fake tits, armpits, legs, shoulders, muffin tops, fat asses, asscracks, labia outline and nasty feet everywhere we go.

This is a difficult issue for me to make a decision on. On one hand I think that men should leave women alone regardless of how they're dressed. On the other she does kind of have a point, you're bound to get attention if you walk around with your tits and ass out.

R9, did it ever occur to you that gay men want to see your shit? Would you appreciate old gay men walking around in nothing but a thong? People in general don't want to see your shit. Stop putting it out there. It's common sense.

More time should be spent trying on clothes that actually fit and visiting a tailor instead of foolishly defending professional women who actually dress like prostitutes, AND YOU KNOW IT'S TRUE.

I no longer concern myself with the issues of women. It's tiresome. They can dress however they like, if they get raped that's their business, not mine.

R108, is that a common thing in the US? It's not in Europe. Professional women dress like professional women here. I was asking because in the US anything seems possible: a reality star becoming president of the US and all that...

R95 So the hundreds of thousands of women's asses I'm forced to endure on a daily basis at work and on the street is them whipping them out because they have to take a dump?

If you, as a male or female, decide to dress in an eye-catching or provocative way you should do it in a safe environment (a familiar neighbourhood, a club or a festival with security). If you decide to walk around in the wrong side of town wearing leather fetish gear or a skimpy dress, you know you’re putting yourself in danger. You cannot count on the goodness of people.

R112 Trying to explain that to people nowadays is pointless. They think that the world will treat them exactly how they want to be treated and are always shocked when things don't go the way they planned. They genuinely think that everybody will do exactly what they want them to do and that everything will go the way they want it to. It's mass delusion.

If a man walked around downtown LA dressed in a women's blazer/pantsuit, people would look at him like his clothes fit strangley, but would not say anything.

If a man walked around downtown LA in a women's midriff tanktop, yoga pants outlining his asscheeks, dick and balls and sandals exposing his feet, men would mock, harass and possibly beat him.

In conclusion, how you dress determines how men treat you.

R111, are you a toilet attendant? What do you do for a living, where do you work?

R115 toilet attendant, clean toilets, public restroom

R115 enough deflecting, just go buy clothes that cover your fat ass

[quote] If a man walked around downtown LA in a women's midriff tanktop, yoga pants outlining his asscheeks, dick and balls and sandals exposing his feet, men would mock, harass and possibly beat him.

If some man wants to do that, he's going to have to go through me first. Fuck men.

I find this debate so stupid. It's just another example of society's growing inability to be objective and impartial. Men should be able to keep their hands to themselves and women shouldn't dress like whores unless they want sexual attention. It's as simple as that.

R118, I'm with you

R97. I agree. That strange dichotomy is also obvious when it comes to formal evening wear. At important social functions, men are completely covered up in tuxedos and women wear gowns that show a lot of skin. Look at any red carpet event like the Oscars or the Emmys and you see male celebs in some type of suit. Many of the female celebs show up in outfits that try to reveal as much boob, thigh, hip, and upper ass as they can get away with. Remember JLo's skimpy green dress at the Grammys? She might as well have been in a bikini. Also, it's funny how platform high heels that were worn by strippers and porn actresses decades ago are now common footwear for the average woman.

It's a reflection of our society. Women are still primarily valued for their youth and looks. The added twist is that straight men want women to appear sexy, but they don't want women to have much sex.

R121

[quote] The added twist is that straight men want women to appear sexy, but they don't want women to have much sex.

It's the only insightful thing you have said

[quote] Men act and women appear. Men look at women. Women watch themselves being looked at.

A lot of the middle aged women flipping out over wearing masks is because their appearance and standard of beauty is a priority.

R122: Whereas most of your contributions to this thread have been lame high school insults. Reveals a lot about your inferiority complex, asswipe troll.

R125, there is no reason to be defensive. It's just that what you posted anyone with half a brain is able to figure it out when they reach puberty and start looking around.

Mildred, where have you been all these years?

R122/R126: Disingenuous bitch, if you can dish it out, then be prepared to take it. Bored with all these fuckwit fools who want to start shit and then act like pussies (sorry, real women) when they get shit in return. Trolls are a uniformly sad group. Incapable of being anything but attention whores no matter how they achieve it. So brave behind your anonymity, keyboard warrior!

I never replied to you here before 125, much less attacked you. But you had to be a smartass, huh? You can take several seats, troll.

Calm down, dear

I'm so tired of this. Every other group under the sun is fighting their individual human rights battles right now and straight white women are whining about clothing. Typical.

R128: LQTM. Deflection already. Troll tactics are transparent. Try harder, you pitiful shit-stirrer.

High heel shoes evolved from stilts men forced women to walk with so they couldn't get away quickly.

R130, I'm not deflecting and I'm not a troll. I find you irritating to the extreme. I mean for instance....

[quote] It's a reflection of our society.

You mean a reflection of the US? A country with a population of what? 300 million roughly? And you think a small subsection of a very small sector, HW actresses, reflect the behaviour of professional women in general? (e.g. engineers, teachers, doctors, lawyers, investment bankers, politicians, etc..). I don't agree with you, it doesn't.

r96 that is what I am fucking saying. Pedophilia, rape are not sexual crimes they are violent crimes involving a sex act So it does not matter what a person wears, no one is asking for anything based on how they prefer to look.

R96/R132: It's amusing how you're commenting from Europe, but declare yourself an expert on US customs and culture. Do you live here, asswipe? Doubt you've even visited for any length of time, which explains your rudeness, your poorly thought-out comments, and your self-important attitude.

Awww, do I have to lead you by the hand? The conversation I was having with someone else was about anchors, newspeople, and celebs, the latter having various degrees of influence on the public, particularly the younger generation. That is why many young American women dress in revealing clothes compared to previous generations when they were younger. Today's stars normalize skimpy clothing. Where did anybody say that bankers, doctors, and teachers were dressing in such a skanky fashion? Nowhere. You sure like to pull crap out of your ass (i.e. make shit up) to appear informed. Your straw man argument was a fail.

[quote]I find you irritating to the extreme.

And I'm supposed to care? You are a nobody to me. A random, trollish European inserting himself on an American-centric topic, when no one asked for your company. But you've clearly established you're a needy and obnoxious attention whore. You must be a tiresome quarrelsome person in real life.

It says a lot that many posters on this thread are reacting negatively to your stupid comments. Obvious troll is obvious. Your comment history exposes it.

Chrissy has always been all about the boys. She’s never been a girl’s girl. Her biggest regret is life is that her children are female.

The only times she's gotten attention in the last, what, 20? years is when she parrots misogynist bullshit. She knows what she's doing.

When did Chrissie join the Taliban?

R134,

[quote] And I'm supposed to care?

Well, you obviously do, instead of blocking me like I would have done you have carried on replying to my messages and you seem quite incensed...

Btw, this is the DL, it is obvious you have not been here long, the 'pointless bitchery' is real. A word of advice, don't believe anything anyone says on the DL. Just sayin'

And I will repeat it again, your comment at R21 is not very insightful, as I said before at R22 the last paragraph seemed interesting, not the rest. Now if you want to go and slit your wrists you are very welcome

R129 How do you know that the women who complain are all white and straight? Did you got lost on your way to Tumblr?

No, it's called having fun pointing out what an asshole you are. The irony is that your comments have zero insight, so your assumption that you have anything of value to contribute is hilarious. You post platitudes when you're not writing troll posts. How typical that you can't even defend your fake arguments, like that stupid bullshit about people here supposedly complaining about the dress habits of lawyers and doctors, when NO ONE wrote such a thing. What a liar with abysmal reading comprehension.

And you are far more invested with your multiple troll comments. You attack without even first fully comprehending what someone else wrote. English not your first language? Stunted education? I don't give a fuck what the excuse is, you are a straight-up mental midget of a troll. And it took you long enough to formulate a weak response.

Pointless bitchery is entertaining if it's witty or funny. You are neither. DL's pointless bitchery relates to making fun of the topic of a thread, not attacking other commenters because you're so desperate for attention. That's why there's a section titled "How To Deal With Trolls." That's why there's a blocking feature for trolls like you, stupid ho. And I only temporarily block to see someone's comment history and yours is pathetic. You really are fucking clueless.

R140 was for the insipid bitch at R138.

[quote]If You Don't Want Catcalls Don't Dress Like A Hooker

I should've strangled this stupid bitch when I had the chance

Well this thread took a rather nasty and serious dive. If Chrissy is saying dressing like a hooker will get you catcalls then she's right. If she's saying it will invite assault then she's wrong. Then again, wearing normal clothes will get you catcalled too. Basically if you're a young and pretty woman, there's no avoiding harassment from men. The only choice is to never leave the house

chrissie enjoyed getting raped and thinks all women should too

catcalls are actually illegal in Britain, they're considered sexual harassment.

Trying to weed out sexual harassment in big cities is an impossibility. The type of men who do this are not prone to introspection or reasonable arguments. Lots of young women who live and work in cities are transplants and they expect to be treated the same way they were treated in the small towns, suburbs or gated communities they grew up in. They never learned to be street-smart. And being street-smart means you either know how to verbally/physically fight off dangerous people or you calculate the risk and adapt.

Chrissie Hynde is a cunt.

Yeah, r146, you put them bitches in their place!

R148 So what’s your solution then? Hugs, kisses and therapy for repeat offenders in order to turn them into feminist allies? If only someone gave Ted Bundy a lecture on how murdering women is a no-no.

We could deport her to Iran, but she'd probably be stoned to death- mistaken for a lesbian.

[quote]Doubt you've even visited for any length of time, which explains your rudeness, your poorly thought-out comments, and your self-important attitude.

And spending more time in Trump's genteel, civilized, and refined United States would have made that person less rude, more thoughtful, and less self-important? That's rich.

Being street smart is also acting with common sense.

R151: Reading comprehension is your weakness, too? The dimwit troll who posted here earlier had the nerve to condescendingly lecture and feebly insult Americans who were discussing rape in the United States and how one's clothes affect how one is treated – in the United States. It was clear he's never been here, but he knew more about American society as it pertains to the way women dress. LOL!

What's rich is your suggestion that the U.S. is a monolith. Trump has his deplorables and they are hardly representative of all Americans. There are many who despise Trump, who do not share his crass behavior and lack of morals, and who did not vote for him. People conveniently forget that nearly 3 million more voters chose Clinton over Trump. But for the archaic precedence of the electoral college, she would have won. Do you assume all English people are like Boris Johnson? Do you assume all Syrians are like Bashar al-Assad?

But we must be all the same to you, huh? Be specific: which Americans are aligned with Trump's version of the U.S.?African Americans? Mexican Americans? Cuban Americans, Chinese Americans? Japanese Americans? Vietnamese Americans? Filipino Americans? German Americans? Italiian Americans? Irish Americans? etc. etc. etc.

America has 20 times the population of your little country (The Netherlands) and FAR MORE diversity, yet you throw out blanket assumptions that we fit some narrow stereotype. What a joke. You sound like that troll. I doubt you have ever been here, either. Your "research" must consist of cherry picking the most sensationalistic or the most negative news reports about the U.S. (bad news sells, but doesn't give a full picture), and questionable gossipy DL threads, anything to support your confirmation bias.

You have a low opinion of Americans. So what? But what the fuck are you even doing here, foreigner? Go bitch to the Dutch version of DL. Oh, that's right – you probably don't even have one.

R4 But she is right. She realized that it was her choice to have children with those men. That's what makes me like her because unlike feminists, she doesn't have stupid excuses. How much misogyny is actually coming from you, saying she is just a "cool girl" just for being different? Is she supposed to act and have the same opinions as all the others?

What the fuck, r154? Accountability goes both ways. Fathers are responsible for their children too. You or her letting them off the hook doesn't make that okay.

R155 Hypocritical response because women are not responsible for their children by law. They have several ways out of parenthood but she chose being a mother anyway.

R153: my silly one-liner hardly warranted such a long-winded, breathless reply. Are you swatting at trolls again? Or maybe pointing out the obvious brings some relief? Like it or not and wrong or fair or not, your country will always be judged to a large extent based on your current government and president. As for reading comprehension problems: you did clearly make a connection between the presumably limited amount of time that person spent in the USA and their alleged rudeless and thoughtlessness. There's nothing ambiguous about your comment; it's right there.

R157: Another disingenuous fool pretending innocence in his comment when he gets a reaction to his stupid criticism. Again, who among the rich diversity of Americans are you painting as just like Trump? Waiting for an answer you can't even back up.

"Long winded and breathless." Oh, my sides. You're quite a practitioner of exaggeration. Maybe for you it takes effort to write a few sentences. Maybe it's challenging for your brain to handle more than one paragraph. English not your first language, dear? Not my problem.

My criticism of the troll was two-fold: 1. That he was being rude and self-important by telling Americans that their opinions were incorrect on a topic that was American-centric. How the fuck would he know more about such a topic, having never lived here? 2. Had he ever spent time in the U.S., his comments would've been less poorly thought-out because then he would have observed that American society is not as simplistic as he (and you) assume. Your "interpretation" that I meant living in America would transform this troll into a genteel and refined individual was all in [bold]your[/bold] head. Plus, he lied. To try to strengthen his position, he accused posters of writing things they never wrote. Pathetic.

It's hilarious how some of you foreigners come to DL and think pointless bitchery means behaving like a troll. Disagree all you want, but relying on ignorant blanket statements and petty personal attacks reveals that nuance is woefully lost on you. Or are your anti-American sentiments festering from Russia? No matter, you're still a nonentity.

Judge away, bitch. I'm not impressed by people who get on their high horse as if their own shit doesn't stink. Government representatives may be voted in by the some of the people. At the same time, the govt. of a country does not equal the people of a country, and history has shown many times that govt. and population are often in conflict. Do you also need to be led by the hand?

Here's one of your imbecilic comments on another thread: "The USA is one big remedial English class." Okay, Boris. Say hi to Natasha for me. Moose and squirrel are still fine.

You fancy yourself as a snarky wit, but you don't rise above the level of a troll. RME at your ridiculousness

A lot of criminals justify their actions by saying you were stupid or careless. Leaving your window unlocked; your purse in the shopping cart... you deserved it.

R158: I wrote that "the USA is one big remedial-English class" in response to one of the longer grammar threads that appeared here recently, in which people were discussing common grammatical errors. This included issues such as whether "irregardless" is a legitimate word, the difference between "number" and "amount," "less and fewer," the frequent use of "might of...," run-on sentences, and so on. I was surprised, as I thought most Americans learned these things in elementary school, but a lot of these errors are apparently widespread.

And I do feel I'm in a position to discuss certain American issues. I was born to a Dutch mother and an American father and hold triple (third nationality is Irish) citizenship. I have been to 23 states. Half of my family members live in the US, including my only sibling. I'm grateful that I grew up in Europe. I realize that hurling "Boris" and "Natasha" insults seems like a quick way to delegitimize any poster, but I've never been to Russia, and most likely never will.

R160: A person hurl insults out, he gets insults right back. See how that works?

That's what the aforementioned troll did. He first responded to one of my non-inflammatory comments by writing: "It's the only insightful thing you have said." Oh really? A quick look at his comment history revealed his habit of condescension toward others. He messed with the wrong person that day when he decided to troll me.

[quote]I was surprised, as I thought most Americans learned these things in elementary school, but a lot of these errors are apparently widespread.

And that is where you err. America is a big country. Some places are populated with educated, articulate people. Some places are filled with illiterates. Some areas have progressive, tolerant attitudes. Some have racist Trump supporters. Many of those areas also have a mixture of different ethnicities and cultures, so then you get the complexity of a salad bowl. The U.S. is not a melting pot and never was. That's a myth. We don't assimilate into one homogeneous group.

But trolls ignore that and think Americans are all on the same page and can be summarized easily with a negative generalization. The loudest, most obnoxious groups get the most public attention, which is why people outside the U.S. hear more about Trump supporters than any moderately-leaning Americans.

Furthermore, DL is not a highly visited message board compared to something like reddit. The opinions of DL posters can't be counted as representative of a nation because they are not even a large sampling.

Well, at least you clarified with some background info. I'll give you that. I was not born in the U.S., but I did grow up here in various locations, starting from the age of four. I've also spent time in other countries. Being of mixed ethnicity myself gives me, I think, additional insight because I experienced more than one perspective/one culture.

r156 you are wrong. A man can choose to fight a woman who wants to not have a child. If they want custody.

R158

“A lot of criminals justify their actions by saying you were stupid or careless. Leaving your window unlocked; your purse in the shopping cart... you deserved it.”

Exactly. Hynde always sides with men, pandering to them. The small subset of pathologically misogynistic gay men on DL love her for that and applaud her since she is not a “whiny” feminist.

R164, I agree. I was fairly disappointed when I read one of her interviews, but I also suspect she has had a hard life, so I don't blame her. She's a brilliant musician — you can't have everything.

The one aspect I like about this is how some heterosexual women, when they hit 35 to 40, get all bothered, emotional and bi-polar when men STOP paying attention to them on the street due to their advancing years and declining beauty infrastructure. They then start to undermine women who are younger and more attractive, especially in the workplace. And they start amping up the flirting with men usually in the workplace and take it to a point where the men feel there is a genuine interest on a personal level and they reciprocate. This is done in an effort to preserve her self esteem surrounding her desirability.

Ultimately the woman will typically make a sexual harassment claim, waste HR's time, and when it's discovered she initiated the relationship the charges are deemed unfounded. the man is moved to a different office or position, and the woman is unofficially branded a troublemaker that everyone in the organization needs to walk on eggshells around. Because of this she never advances in the organization and hits a glass ceiling and blames gender discrimination. She hangs on unmarried working until she is 55 or 60 and then is finally re-or get out of the business due to staff reductions. And people are happy to see her go.

R166: you are so full of shit.

What she is saying essentially is "if you leave all your doors and windows open, you're more likely to get robbed." It doesn't mean that you're at fault, it means that you have no common sense and put yourself in a bad situation that could have been easily avoided.

R168, it's not that simple. I think it has less to do with what you are wearing and more to do with the status of women in society.

R162 Lies. Unmarried men don't even have rights to their own biological children if the mother refuses to let them have custody. See the article below.

“Unmarried men don't even have rights to their own biological children if the mother refuses to let them have custody. ”

Some states in the US grant custodial rights to rapists.

R171 I know and these rapists can even demand child support from their victims, even if those victims happen to be underage boys. (See linked article below).

Women and girls don't have to be affected by this because it is legal for them to have an abortion, to put the child up for adoption like in the article above without even having consent from the biological father or they can legally abandon their child right at the hospital. Safe haven laws allow them to do this even several months after their child was born.

Men and boys don't have these legal rights and have to pay their female rapists support money if they happen to birth their child. The article below shows several cases were courts have affirmed that the state can lawfully force boys and men to make child support payments to their rapists. This article also shows a case, which shows that when the victim is female, the courts decide against her having to pay child support, rightly so. But why aren't boys protected the same way by law?

female rapists??

R173 Are you from the UK, India or Israel? Because in those countries, made-to-penetrate is not ackowledged by law. So the concept of a female rapist doesn't even exist there and men can't get justice according to law.

The term female rapist is used, because there are still a lot of misconceptions regarding male rape victims. According to the the article I will link below, men and women actually rape at about the same rate and I hope that someday, when we use the word rapist, we will look at it in a gender neutral way as opposed to assuming that only men can be rapists.

“According to the the article I will link below, men and women actually rape at about the same rate and I hope that someday, when we use the word rapist, we will look at it in a gender neutral way as opposed to assuming that only men can be rapists.”

Hmmm. I wonder why whenever they bust a pedophile ring, they are almost always 100% male?

R175 Hmmm.... I wonder why according to the UN, women are the majority of sex traffickers. Hmmm... I wonder why I saw so many female pedo teachers in the news lately who have raped their male students and often don't receive any jail time at all. Hmmm... I wonder how accurate the statistics about female rapists actually are, when certain countries, like the ones mentioned above, don't even include them as rapists in criminal law and therefore their statistics.

Sorry but your way of thinking regarding sex crimes is outdated and rooted in sexist stereotypes. If you want to solve problems, you'll have to look at the facts and available data. Then we can make progress and stop more crimes.

“Sorry but your way of thinking regarding sex crimes is outdated and rooted in sexist stereotypes. If you want to solve problems, you'll have to look at the facts and available data. Then we can make progress and stop more crimes.”

I remember you were peddling this shit on another thread. Here is a more recent link, most sex traffickers ar male.

R177 What is your point? This isn't a contest. This is about dismantling misguided stereotypes which can result in more crime like we've seen with no jail time for female pedophile rapists who then can continue their sick ways. I have never denied that men are sex traffickers and you also have to keep in mind that your article is US-centric. Your article also adds at the end the following: "There’s no question that human trafficking in the United States is a serious problem. Even so, our anti-trafficking criminal laws are written in such a way that makes it far more likely that young black men are prosecuted significantly more than other perpetrators of human trafficking".

R176, Ghislaine is an exception rather than the rule. Most pedophiles and rapists are men — gay or straight. There might be a percentage of women, but they are minimal compared to men