Someone needs to remind Italians they aren’t white

Huh?

Yes they are. Some Sicilians may have some Moor blood from a long time ago, but they are white.

They aren’t white

Check out the bulge on the masked guy in the black shirt. He's totally having a semi!

Garibaldi didn't unite Italy, he divided Africa.

Papists and Fenians really need to stop hanging around WASP only bathouses.

Fucking mongrels trying to act superior.

Italians are white.

Some are, R8.

Some aren't.

Someone also needs to remind them black people were here long before them and when they got here they were placed in concentration camps, lynched etc. also. How they’ve forgotten.

It’s scary how many of them proclaim “Italian” (they aren’t Italians) but don’t know any of the real Italian American history.

R10, of they know, but trying to forget by pretending they are better than others.

[R10], oh they know, but trying to forget by pretending they are better than others.

A lot think they're better than whites. Superiority complex.

There is nothing more entertaining than the whole Who's really White debate. It brings it all together, the complete arbitrariness of the whole silly thing.

R13 : So they think they're upgraded whites?

What are they bitching about?

How quickly they forget.

R17 yup. They were brown. They used to look like what Mexicans look like. They didn’t start looking white until they started mixing with legitimate whites.

There's this thing called a "tan".

Italians are genetically related to all other Europeans. There’s very little admixture,-especially northern Italians- with North Africans.

Well, since you brought it up - why do some Italians have nappy hair?

John Turturro, for example

Are Greeks white?

White Italians are white.

Southern Italians and Sicilians were euphemistically said to have an "olive-complexion"

What about Arabs? They're hawt!

Italians were Middle Eastern and did have black DNA

stupid thread. FF.

Watching that video, you Americans are fucking crazy, both sides, the BLM and those idiots.

If I have to read a genealogy print out to kill you without conscience, you’re white.

[quote] Southern Italians and Sicilians were euphemistically said to have an "olive-complexion"

We call that white.

Americans have weird obsessions.

Italians are NOT white. Maybe some very Northern Italians, but we true WASPs have to review that on a case by case basis. We are not just letting anyone in. The rule, before applying any creditable exceptions is that Italians are NOT white and, being Papists, are NOT Christian.

That's just how it is, but they get so uppity about it.

The average IQ in that group couldn't be much more than 80.

Are we talking Italians or Eye-talians?

But R32, Christianity existed before Protestantism. They are the one who decided to secede from the Roman church, which was the center of Christiandom. Now, Christianity is formed of the Catholic church, the Protstant church and the Orthodox church.

That the WASPs love to shout :"You are not one of us !", ok, but let's not create alternative realities.

Why are/were Italians thought of as nonwhite, while the same label was not put on Greeks?

Because of the close relationship and intermingling between Greeks ad Italians since ancient times, there is an expression in both countries called, in Italian: ”Una Faccia, Una Razza,” and in Greek: "μια φάτσα μια ράτσα" meaning One Face, One Race...meaning they are very similar in looks and genetics and have been throughout the ages.

R34, as English is not my first language, I never got the nature of that ethnic slur ( is it a slur ? It is meant to be unpleasant, right ?)

Eye-talian ? Hoo !I mispronounce their nationality ! That will teach them !

Or is there something that went over my head ?

Another perspective of in Italian: ”Una Faccia, Una Razza,” and in Greek: "μια φάτσα μια ράτσα"

One Face, One Race (it's a real thing):

The Hellenic Institute for Byzantine and Post-Byzantine Studies opened in Venice in 1951, providing for the study of Byzantine and Post-Byzantine history in Italy.

The Istituto Italiano di Cultura di Atene in Athens is responsible for promoting Italian culture in Greece.

In July 2014, an official artistic exhibition with the title "Italy – Greece: one face, one race" was inaugurated in Rome on the occasion of the passing of the EU Council Presidency from Greece to Italy. The title of the exhibition refers to a Greek saying, "μια φάτσα μια ράτσα" (mia fatsa mia ratsa, cf. Italian una faccia, una razza), often used in Greece to express the perception of close cultural affinities between Greeks and Italians.

Greeks have lived in southern Italy (Magna Grecia) for millennia, and today are called Griko. There are also Italians in Corfu.

They are considered white today. But they weren't all considered white when they first started coming to the US. The southern Italians had much darker skin than the northern Italians. The darker Italians were treated like black folks as far as housing, schooling, attending public places, etc. They were often called "white N*****s" or "N***** wop".

R38, this is really interesting, but I doubt OP is interested in similarities between Greeks and Romans (and modern Italians!) or by the caddie of Western civilisation.

OP seems to be part of one of the numerous American clans, at war with all the other factions. The one and out of which makes no sense for us.

** craddle of civilisation, obviously.

I'm very white and I don't understand why the part white people are so angry. It's weird.

Italians were called the “niggers” of Europe

All of these guys use “fag” but gladly jerk off to tranny porn.

R39, then shouldn't the Wasps be guilttripped about how unwelcoming they were ? Somehow, these recurrent thread make it sound like Italian Americans should be ashamed for having been shabily welcomed.

I don't think anyone posting here has actually ever been to Italy.

Northern Italy - White

Everyone other part - Well, everyone else knows the deal except them. But let them have their silk hankies over lamps fantasies.

True R46 or know Italian history. There are dark Italians and light Italians. There are white Italians and mixed Italians. People fuck-up when they try to put all Italians in the same box given the history in different parts of the country.

The laughable article at R17 is written by Brent Staples an African American who gets it all wrong.

This thread reads like something from 4chan.

MAYBE the guys in this video DON’T think they’re white, and also just hate BLM and the communists surrounding them? Like Asians.

What is happening in OP video ? What is the confrontation about ?

Yes, I'm the cluelss non American who posted a couple of question in this thread.

How about DL fave NFL quarterback Jimmy Garoppolo?

How about adjacent couples?

Melissa Gorga before and after

Johnny Cash's first wife, Vivien Cash - full-blood Sciscilian

Muriel should add this thread to the FAQs.

Nobody has seen the Walken/Hopper scene in True Romance (written by Tarantino....)?

M U R I E L !!!!!!!! The cunt-faced "Italians-ain't-white" troll is backkkkkk from her virtual grave!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please re-bury her!!!!!!!

Skip to the 06:30 mark in R58 vid - R58!!

R59 is Italian?

[quote]They were brown. They used to look like what Mexicans look like. They didn’t start looking white until they started mixing with legitimate whites.

The complete ignorance on DL is astounding sometimes.

[quote]Italians were called the “niggers” of Europe

That was actually the Irish.

When the wind blows the craddle will fall. Down will come R41, craddle and all.

I forgot Gandolfini was in that movie too. A Tony Scott movie written by Tarantino wins the tasteless Olympics.

I think a good metric for "whiteness" is that is somebody can't immediately identify you as white or has to ask, you are not white. Someone told me Persians consider themselves white and this is not the case. It's pretty basic.

Nope. Middle Easterners are classified as CAUCASIAN!

Hindus/Indians are classified as ASIAN!

What about the poor Aborigines? No one EVER considers the classification of the Aborigines!

[quote] Nope. Middle Easterners are classified as CAUCASIAN!

Countdown to the “They’re Caucasian but not white” post.

They're Caucasian but not white. I don't think anyone would mistake Pratima and Mohammed as being late for the Oktoberfest across town.

As R63 said it was about the Irish... But who'd say that ? I'm pretty sure the Swedes, the French, the Spaniards, people from Luxambourg, the Germans and the Russians didn't worry about Irish peop,e and bothered to callthemthat.

It seems like it could come from ... The English ? Hardly all of Europe ! Actually, they don't even want to be part of Europe !

They’re Caucasian because Caucasian doesn’t actually mean WHITE

Is Chris Meloni white?

r69 Yes, Persians look like Europeans. Have you ever seen one? Doesn't sound like it.

There is local difference everywhere. There are more blue eyed Swedes than blue eyed Germans, there are more blue eyed Germans than blue eyed Italians, they are more blue eyed Italians that blue eyed Persians. Yet brown eyed white people are still white.

WASPs can be or have been racist to Italians all they want, you can be racist to anyone if you hold the power, but they can not change the race of the people of an age old nation on another continent by that, You ARE aware that Europe and Italy actually still exist, Americans?

People from India are NOT MONGOLOID they are CAUCASOID.

R49, Care to elaborate?

[quote] They're Caucasian but not white.

[quote] They’re Caucasian because Caucasian doesn’t actually mean WHITE

Told you so.

The world is not made of Two races. PS the old fuck in his 80s always using terms like “Caucasoid” and “Mongoloid”, those terms are outdated and that was proven bullshit years ago.

Here goes an articles most Americans need to read. Caucasian does not actually mean white.

And no, those brown Middle Eastern people are not “white”.

[quote] People from India are NOT MONGOLOID they are CAUCASOID.

R74 = Dr. Eugene Icks, a protege or Dr. Mengele

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

[quote] Why are/were Italians thought of as nonwhite, while the same label was not put on Greeks?

On DL Greeks are not white either.

R81 because they are mixed

Those people in the video aren't Italians. They are all Americans. Every single one of them.

Also - there are plenty of fair skinned, light eyed, blond Italians in Italy. Depends on the geographical location.

[quote]Someone also needs to remind them black people were here long before them and when they got here they were placed in concentration camps, lynched etc. also. How they’ve forgotten.

Italians learned how to integrate into American society within a generation or two. Why haven't blacks who have been here for 400 years?

Italians may be considered white now but racist Italian-Americans need to accept that WASPS used to discriminate against them too, and just maybe they can develop some empathy.

Discriminate? They used to kill them!!!

Half Italian (ethnically) and from Philly, and these guys are just embarrassing. They never left the city except to go "down the shore". They're still either living in the same house they grew up in or in the same neighborhood. They never amounted to much. They have chips on their shoulders. Seeing the city change before their very eyes so rapidly, especially demographically-speaking, is scary to them. The city's population is made up of African-Americans and hipster youth who have built the city up and now have strong political power. Houses go for over half a mil. These goombas are unable to progress with the world around them. They're clinging to whatever 'Identity" they have left.

Anyway, I have to laugh that their precious Columbus statue is officially coming down.

R88 while I agree with most you said, I hate when people knock people for staying in the town they were born in/grew up in. Nothing wrong with growing where you were planted.

I have more respect for someone like that than people who flock to cities they don’t even fit in.

R85 - black people were slaves until 1865 when slavery was officially abolished. That was 155 years ago.

Then, various laws have actively worked to keep black people down for most of the last 155 years after that - segregation, suffrage, access to education, finance etc.

So that's hardly comparable to Italian immigrants is it?

No.

[quote]Then, various laws have actively worked to keep black people down for most of the last 155 years after that - segregation, suffrage, access to education, finance etc.

Blacks' insistence on committing endless violent crimes for the last 155 years has resulted in their being kept down. Yes, "homicide" is one of various laws that has kept black people down by their refusal to obey it.

NO R92 and you know it you racist fuck!

R92 is the perfect example of people who don’t know their own history or they would have more empathy.

R91 In fact. There is no comparison. Zero.

In my family a first generation Italian cousin went to Yale, another became a judge. My first generation grandfather became solidly upper middle class by the 1950s and sent his kids to college.

Italians founded the Bank of America 1904. Doctors, architects, scientists, artists, businessmen....Enrico Fermi, Valentino, Caruso, the architect Candela, Antonio Meucci, Domingo Ghirardelli, Giuseppe Bellanca, Fiorello La Guardia was the mayor of NYC.....the list is long

Immigrants from Italy were coming from a country that gave us the Roman Empire, the Renaissance ...Italy gave the world great inventions, advances in science, medicine, art, exploration....the fucking COUNTRY is named after an Italian.

Italians have absolutely NOTHING in common with the plight of Blacks.

[quote]I hate when people knock people for staying in the town they were born in/grew up in. Nothing wrong with growing where you were planted.

Except they have no interest the world outside of their own. That's the problem. They travel in myopic circles.

R93, please view this thread.

[quote]Except they have no interest the world outside of their own.

Old school Italian neighborhoods are fine with me.

R97 and? Many people who live there say the cops started the shootouts but the media won’t cover it.

Who knows what is happening.

And using that is stupid because you don’t use white people who mass kill.

R95- Fiorello LaGuardia was half Italian and half Jewish how the hell did he end up EPISCOPALIAN?

Hey, with Greeks it is also fragmented and tribal. The fact is, if you're from the Macedonian region you're fair, and the scattered islands have a lot of Turkish and Middle eastern ancestors. As for Italy, the Arbs colonized Naples and remained there for more than 300 years. Hannibal Barca of Carthage in North Africa invade Italy and the Carthagenians stayed in the Italian Peninsula for a very long time. Ancient warfare and conquest, and the commerce on the Mediterranean meant a lot of mixing. Northern Italians mixed with Germanic Tribes, with Gauls, etc. and Southern italians mixed with Semitic people throughout the Mediterranean. Greeks too. And it happened over hundreds of years.

[quote]Many people who live there say the cops started the shootouts

Oh please.

[quote] the Arbs

I'd like to stay in one next time I'm in Italy.

Apparently Leonardo DiCaprio, Madonna, Nicolas Cage, Bradley Cooper and Chris Evans are mixed race people according to DL. Let's not forget Meryl Streep in The Bridges of Madison County, one of the most grotesque examples of whitewashing in Hollywood.

So Frank Sinatra was actually black?

JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE IS NOT WHITE DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE BLACK.

That is part of the issue. We’ve gotten to a place where we think the world is made of white or black. That’s a lie b

So Frank Sinatra was Arab?

If italians aren't white because of distant north african ancestry, then scandinavians are also not white because of distant asian ancestry.

Madonna is my favorite black artist.

Why is this topic so recurrent on DL? It comes up every couple of months. I don't see it discussed elsewhere.

Ariana has the classic olive complexion seen by true Italians, not fake Italians.

Oh god now we have "fake" Italians and "true" Italians. DLers are batshit crazy.

WTF is it with Italians and this 'white adjacent' shit? The French can be dark or fair and nobody thinks they're anything but white.

[quote] The French can be dark or fair and nobody thinks they're anything but white.

You must be new here.

Ariana isn’t a real Italian. That tan is fake too.

The French are notoriously non white.

As far as Black entertainers go, Perry Como has always been my favorite.

Frank Sinatra and Dean Martin opened a lot of doors for people of color in the entertainment industry. They were two of the first non-white artists to find mainstream acceptance.

It was Hitler who called Italians "the mongrel race of Europe."

R118 and millions followed.

Raffaello, Leonardo da Vinci, Michelangelo, Titian, Tintoretto, Giovanni Bellini, Botticelli, Donatello, Piero della Francesca, Fra Angelico, Andrea Mantegna, Filippo Lippi, Caravaggio, Giotto, Puccini, Rossini, Monteverdi, Vivaldi...just to name a few....all mongrels!

Hitler worshipped italians due to the Roman Empire.

I'm half Italian. I had to fill out a form that asked for race. I was honestly confused. No European countries were called out, so I thought about checking "other" and writing in Italian, but in the end just checked white.

They are white

I'm Italian. From Catanzaro in the South. Well, I was born here and my parents were born here but my grand parents, great grand parents on both sides, and my great, great grand parents on both sides were all Italians. I have a true olive complexion and thick naturally curly hair. I had cousins who had nappy hair. Nappy RED hair. Vikings passed through the Italian peninsula in the area where our people came from. One of the cousins did research and said the area in ancient times was called "magna Greca. " There are ancient amphitheatres in the countryside that date back to the Greeks.

[quote] but in the end just checked white.

You chose...unwisely.

What should he have checked? African-American or Asian?

I am 1/2 Italian on my dad’s side and agree with R88. I love my dad, but he and his South Philly friends are racist and homophobic (although he loves his boy - anyway). I had a really cool black roommate in college and be became best friends. I learned a lot from being his friend, traveling with him and meeting other black people. It really opened my mind from my racist upbringing. Then I moved to NYC and expanded my world even more. However, when I visit South Philly/my dad, I am reminded of the same small minded attitudes that haven’t changed a bit in 50 years. It is really sad and I can’t wait to leave again.

This doesn't look like any white person I know...

Does to me, r128.

Does Alicia Vikander look white to you? She is much darker than the average italian.

For the idiot at R128

Virna Lisi

Mariangela Melato

Giulietta Masina

Monica Vitti

Italians and the Irish became so racist to try and take away from their own otherness.

R135 Racists? The Italians didn't institute slavery. Or Jim Crow. Or red lining. Learn a little history.

Were Annette Funicello and Frankie Avalon considered white? I would say so.

ariana dolezal's tan is fake. she's pale as a ghost naturally.

If OP a thinks she is 54 percent white then what are italians??

[quote]Were Annette Funicello and Frankie Avalon considered white?

I have heard that filming was difficult for them because it was hard to find beaches that accepted people of color.

[quote]Why are/were Italians thought of as nonwhite, while the same label was not put on Greeks?

[quote]On DL Greeks are not white either.

Oh, okay. So I guess I'm not white. I'll let my father and grandmother know. They will be most interested . She'll pray for you at the Greek church this weekend. Then she'll put a hex on you, you white bastard.

Annette Funicello kind of looked like Zira from Planet Of The Apes (1968) they both had the same SIMIAN hairdo.

R136: Learn the definition of "racist"

Italy was the most racist country I’ve ever been to. I was shocked. They don’t even hide it.

WTF! People here are still putting all Italians (and Greeks) in the same box! Most are white. Some are mixed! Stop with the willful stupidity.

R144: Italians are extremists. Either they LOVE you or they HATE you and very arrogant either way.

im cuban of portuguese and spanish ancestry. acccording to acestry and 23andme i was supposed to be blond and blue eyed. however my hair is cery black and my eyes are brown. my father looks swedish and my mother is brunette. southern europeans can have a variety of skin tones fron pale to olive but their facial and bone structures are clearly europeans, only the unfuckable gingers in the USA think they are not white. yes , southern europeans are waaaayyyy hotter than those nasty looking english and germans.

"Mama, am I black?"

"Well, Liza, I never thought about it before, but I guess you are."

it is all envy what americans have always felt for italians cuz they know italians have an amazing cultural heritage. they would give an eye if they could to just be able to get out of shithole utah and spend one day of their miserable lives in wonderful italy.

As a Swiss diplomat once said to me, "Everything south of Naples is Africa."

Imagine willingly committing brain cells to determining the merits of any side of this argument. Really scraping the barrel. It’s so low energy.

FWIW the Irish were also once considered non-white. Both the Irish and Italians are considered white by all now except freaks like OP. Jews and Latinos have had a similar journey. There are Black Jews and Latinos though. In Italy, there is a long term, significant north-south divide, which has racial overtones. Northerners will say “Rome is where Africa begins.” This was a common expression before the recent “migrant emergency.” The Northern League, which is now trying to go mainstream, has very racist roots, and advocated breaking away under the name “Padania.”

I'm sorry but Italian Americans have almost zero in common with real Italians. They are like two different species.

Unless you look like christopher moltisanti, I’m not sleeping with you. Guidos are racist, horrible creatures. That’s why NJ is such a shithole

White people come in shades, just like Black folks. This is a race baiter thread, DL catnip.

R153: "Real" Italians? Okay...bloodline don't count? In what ways - says you?

R155 yep the OP fat race baiting troll a is stiring the pot again.

Eew.

R150 You should have asked that Swiss Diplomat what art , culture, great music, cuisine, fashion, etc....the Swiss have ever produced,

The Italians are very defensive of their consideration of being white or not. It is how big your dick is that really counts.

It's 2020 and they still do not have the decorium to button up their shirts!

Someone needs to inform the OP every race of people is comprised of various shades and hues.

Only the Italians hung over 10” might not be completely white.

Oh ffs, this old chestnut again?

Does Marcello Mastroianni not look white? Ballerina Carla Fracci (now one of the most beautiful 80 year old women I've ever seen)? You know how many blond Italians there are? Have you looked at statuary from Roman and medieval times? At Michelangeleo's David? Boticelli's Venus? Bellini's St. Francis in the Desert?

Southern Italy probably has a large dollop of North African DNA. DNA gets spread around, minimised with intermarriage, transmuted, changed, and either amplified or diminished in individuals as time goes on.

OP is a jackass stirring the pot. Probably the same git who insisted Antonio Banderas and all Spaniards aren't white, either, despite one look at the King and Queen of Spain and the plethora of tall blond Spaniards in Northwestern Spain.

Why is this bullshit always with us?!

R155 - "This is a race baiter thread. . . ."

Like, totally.

R164 Hello

R150, there's an English saying, obviously racist, "Africa begins at Calais". The French say "Africa begins at the Pyrenees. " It's an old European trope.

It's not a Black White issue. There are groups of people who are semitic. Arabic. WTF ever you call them. And within countries there are regions and tribes that have different language, customs, culture, etc. Italians are Europeans. Swedes are Europeans. But they are miles apart in terms of physicality, culture temperament, traditions, etc.

I think sometimes what we don't know about the world is embarrassing, as Americans. You can go to Portugal, Spain, Greece, italy, and you will find significant regional differences even in the dialect they speak, the architecture, the cuisine, the customs. In Greece you can call them "racist" if you like, but the prejudice and the insularities go back to the times pre-dating Alexander the Great.

On the mainland in the Greek peninsula, the Macedonian region were the lighter complexioned ones. Even today, I remember my grandmother had an old neighbor who was very quick to tell us he was "Macedonian." There was a term not much in use today, called The Orient. It included Turkey, parts of Russia, parts of China. Further to the West, in the Mediterranean, lots of commerce, lots of mixing.

We keep hearing about these distinctions all the time: Persians aren't Arabs. They will be the first to tell you. Middle Eastern? Yes. Arabs, no. Macedonians aren't Greeks. Sicilians aren't "real" Italians. People from Morocco, Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, aren't "Africans" they're Arabs.

It's a pain in the ass trying to keep up with the fact that in this reactionary age, with a resurgence of a new version of nationalism, the fragmentation of human society is exacerbated by refugee crises, and people insisting on claiming identity from the narrowest possible definition.

[quote] Italians are Europeans. Swedes are Europeans. But they are miles apart in terms of physicality, culture temperament, traditions, etc.

They are miles apart, period. Europe is a real sliding scale from north to south (and a little more subtely west to east) when it comes to height, coloring, even culture, tradition and religion, just as much within nations as between nations. A naturally grown population must be consusing to Americans, so they cling to imaginary race clusters.

For the people who get offended by this thread, I think it's just typical DL brand of off color un PC gallows humor to shed light on the systemic racism in the world. You either have fun with it or roll your eyes or keep moving. But on a side note, it is funny as shit the way Italian get all up in arms when you remind them about he whole Moors thing.

We can all agree, regardless of race, Italian men have the nicest cocks, right?

Geography plays a huge role in what evolves in a culture in order to survive. and outside influences affect everything from the evolving language, food, and adaptation of customs and traditions. YOu want to talk about evolving languages just look at the English Language itself.

I blame the Catholic Church for the ascendance and the promotion of racism and the whole notion of who is superior to whom. Religion has always been used as a weapon to oppress and subject one people to another.

I think we need to define terms. OP, what is "white?" Because obviously it is a lot more than complexion, right? What is the standard against which you measure someone's conformity?

I know this is in part a comedy-thread, but I think I now realise why the US has the reputation of being an unusually racist country. You never hear people from Northern Europe call into question whether Italians are white, not even when they’re hardcore neo-nazis.

One thing is not up for debate: Santa Claus is a white man. He just is.

[quote] he whole Moors thing.

Moops!

For example DL fave Anthony Recker, who is Italian despite his last name, is not white.

R174 I grew up in the south. There were some race issues (mostly around interracial dating), but nothing crazy or out of hand. For the most part everyone got along. But the key was you were either black or you were white. It wasn't until I left the south that I realized there were all of these other categories of white people. It was quite the eye opener. I didn't meet a Jewish person until college and even then I didn't understand why everyone was so down on them.

I was fascinated the first time I went to the big city and there were these areas like Little Italy and Chinatown and this is where all the Russians live. I was so naïve. But it really a lesson in how America works. The key thing being they want to be better than and look down on American black people. Even some of the Africans that come here have issues with American black people. I just don't understand it.

[quote[ I grew up in the south. There were some race issues (mostly around interracial dating), but nothing crazy or out of hand.

I work a lot in the South (specifically Texas) for my job, having been raised the UK and Northeastern United States. Racism is definitely crazy and out of hand. Perhaps it isn't compared to say 60 years ago, but it is still virulent. When I'm not around black people, the racism comes out, and when you react against it people become very agitated.

[quote] I grew up in the south. There were some race issues (mostly around interracial dating), but nothing crazy or out of hand.

I work a lot in the South (specifically Texas) for my job, having been raised the UK and Northeastern United States. Racism is definitely crazy and out of hand. Perhaps it isn't compared to say 60 years ago, but it is still virulent. When I'm not around black people, the racism comes out, and when you react against it people become very agitated.

Are Brad Pitt and Derek Hough white?

The Italians in the Southwest were just called Mexican-Lite. In the Northeast and the South they were actually killed by lynching and other nefarious ways.

In America Italians were "upgraded" to white when Hispanics started moving out of the Sunbelt into the Northern parts of the country.

[quote] The Italians in the Southwest were just called Mexican-Lite.

In California I believe many Italians are from Northern Italy.

[quote]In California I believe many Italians are from Northern Italy.

That's why they were called Mexican-Lite. There is a reason why the Pachuco movement also spilled into the Italian neighborhoods.

What's the "Pachuco movement"?

When Mexicans started to dress like they came out of the Zoot riots. You know, like when Mexicans would get beat up by whites and blacks if they got out of their barrios... The navy would do drills in the barrios were they would practice by beating up Mexican men and Mexican women.

Actually, r124, the Vikings, well Normans, did more than pass through Southern Italy. They owned the place for awhile. It's what makes all this whole thing so silly, the constant worry about race mixing when everyone's such a mutt. How many white people in the South really want to look deeply into their own purity?

I know for a fact there's so much race mixing in Louisiana and Georgia it is hardly worth mentioning. It's only in the mountainous rural regions of north and south Georgia, and in the rural regions of LA that you get the extremists and the assholes. Of course Mississippi and Alabama are really bad as far as the racists go.

Here come the "swarthy" people who have the inability to use the word DARK.

R164, Never looked at Antonio Banderas and thought—yep, that's a white man! Lol.

R164 - Welcome to DL, where a thread just like this erupted over (probably the OP of this one) insisting that Banderas wasn't white simply by virtue of being Spanish.

Frankly, I never looked at Banderas and thought he was anything but white - and scrumptious.

[quote]In America Italians were "upgraded" to white when Hispanics started moving out of the Sunbelt into the Northern parts of the country.

Total bullshit.

[quote]talians are Europeans. Swedes are Europeans. But they are miles apart

They sure are.

The Swedes haven't produced even a teeny tiny fraction of the culture the Italians have.

Italians are Caucasian, therefore white.

Like Blacks, whites come in many hues. The skin range is from pale white to dark olive skin.

The Irish might have been considered trash but they are probably the absolutely definition of white. Light hair, extremely white skin, blue eyes are their predominate traits.. I guess there are the dark Irish.

R195 - They're called "Black Irish" with dark hair and dark eyes (eg. Colin Farrell).

Anyone who dismisses the Italians as being of "various hues" misses the point. Southern Italians, (those south of Rome, not Naples) were more mixed with other civilizations because of colonization, because of commerce, etc. So the culture, the cuisine, the climate, the dialects, etc. everything was influenced by others. In the north you have other cultural influences from the landlocked tribes and cultures of northern and Central Europe. There was a time when Austria invaded a ruled northern italy, for example. But again. We use the term "white." very broadly and everyone seems to put their own spin on it. For me, "White" is a buzzword. It says "I subscribe to a mode of thought and a standard of behavior" I find abhorrent. I celebrate other cultures. They make like richer. But there are a lot of others who fear "outsiders" or anything that is different from their small, insular world.

SOME are called Black Irish. Most Irish are white as white can be. It is hilarious how these things had to be "decided," no doubt after a lot of earnest investigation and scholarly bullshit.

So who's the bitch that hates this so much? What's that shit about?

[quote]For me, "White" is a buzzword. It says "I subscribe to a mode of thought and a standard of behavior" I find abhorrent.

Why do you find that abhorrent?

Most Italian immigrants came to the US in the twentieth century, long after slavery was outlawed and they had nothing to do with how blacks were treated here. So, Italian-Americans are not going to be paying one cent of Reparations or whatever bullshit handouts are being demanded by blacks and Progressive politicians, especially if they're being told they aren't white.

Because DOnald Trump and the people who support him...the millions who support him, appropriated it long ago and defined it in such a way as to be abhorrent to me.

[quote]But there are a lot of others who fear "outsiders" or anything that is different from their small, insular world.

Italy is filled with walled cities just for that reason.

[quote]Italy is filled with walled cities just for that reason.

Those walled cities date back to the MIddle Ages, and have nothing to do with racism.

R204 You're wrong. They were built at their time to keep invaders out. And still today, Italians are suspicious of "the other". And that's not a criticism on my part BTW.

[quote]And still today, Italians are suspicious of "the other".

Every group, everywhere on Earth, is suspicious of "the other".

Well, if you had invaders who raped all your women and killed your men and took over the country you'd want to build walls to keep them out too.

R207 You think native americans should have built walls back in the 1500s?

R206 Agreed. I was responding to the idiotic post at R197

And r208 is right on cue.

EVERYONE built walls in the Middle Ages, and a lot in the Ancient World. Is this honestly supposed to be some big clue into the Italian character? Really?

Race is a social construct.

R212 Amen!

R211 Yes absolutely. It explains a lot about attitudes still to this day.

no, it really doesn't r214.

R215 Have you ever lived in a walled town?

I have in Italy for 3 decades. Do even speak Italian?

jesus christ, bitch, you think living in a town with medieval walls tells you some big thing about yourself and your surrounding culture? Do you know York has walls? Do you know Quebec has walls? Do you honestly think this is some big thing that Italy invented and now everyone is stuck with living in walled cities and wondering when the Vikings are going to show up?

[quote]you think living in a town with medieval walls tells you some big thing about yourself and your surrounding culture?

You bet it does.

R217 But you're an idiot. You truly don't get it. You know nothing about history and how attitudes are formed.

fine, you are a medieval peasant, and that you will remain. Please plow the lower 40 with your ox. Thank you.

R219 Is one of those clueless tourists who will go to Italy and explain the country to the natives.

yes, that must be it r220. Unless you get that every Italian is still a medieval peasant you can't understand them. Clearly.

I do happen to know something about history, so stop acting like a pissy little Troll.

does this bitch look white to english people???!!! give me a break!

well I do happen to know something about history too, so it's all good. The important thing is, who is white? IT is mystery.

R201- YOU GO GIRL!

We should just do a one-time massive redistribution of wealth. Wealth has been based primarily on bullshit for about 50 years now. Mix it up. Throw it around. Stop pretending it's some sacred thing, that there is some delicate balance where only the most talented and skillful and useful get money. We all know that's horseshit. Whatever you want to call it, reparations, stimulus, whatever the fuck, just start throwing the money around.

Theo James.

Hey italians have you gotten it yet?? You are NOT white, because I said so!

Moar.

R198 - "They're called "Black Irish" with dark hair and dark eyes (eg. Colin Farrell)."

Don't forget Tyrone Power and Aidan Turner . . .

"For me, "White" is a buzzword. It says "I subscribe to a mode of thought and a standard of behavior" I find abhorrent."

What mode of thought would that be? Shakespeare? Mozart? Albert Einstein? Charlotte Bronte? Mark Twain? The Tudors? The Kennedys? The Roosevelts? Jonas Salk? Robert Louis Stevenson? Evelyn Waugh? Yeats? Emily Dickinson? Jane Austen?

You don't deserve them.

228 that guy does not belong to the mediterrenean caucasian race. he is clearly a mixed race hispanic

R232 That thing in the purple is the OP of this thread a. He says he is over 50 percent white!

Italians get very defensive when you question their whiteness.

Because they're white.

[quote] Because they're white.

No. It’s because they’re insecure about not being white.

R236 They’re secure in their knowledge that you’re an idiot.

They think it's a huge offense to be called a non-white.

R238 Why should someone accept being called a POC when they're not?

R239, I'm not R238 but I think it's funny that they get so upset. Why do they care so much if it's not true?

R240 Why do you care so much if it's not true?

r240 I'm not r239 and I'm a nationality everyone counts as white, but I'm offended by the sheer American stupidity as well as the entitlement they decide who is what anywhere in the world. "Now that we made up a random hispanic race, no one can define by anything but language (and that that they're drug dealers and rapists of course) it suits our UScentric wordlview to decide that southern Europeans are also not white, although they are literally the infamous white people who colonized the entire world, including this very continent." It just hurts.

That's one of the many reasons the article at R17 is so utterly dumb. "How Italians Became White"

Italians are white. They didn't become white. The US doesn't get to decide who is white and who is not.

The Euro press wasn't offended by those calling Antonio Banderas a POC during the Oscars. They were simply shocked at the stupidity.

[quote]Italians were Middle Eastern and did have black DNA

National Geographic has done extensive DNA testing and concluded that only 3% of Sicilians and Calabrese Italians have "black" ancestry. Being Middle Eastern does not equate with black, and many other Europeans also have haplogroups that originated in North Africa. Moors didn't genetically mingle much while in Sicily and many of us have higher percentages of Ashkenazi DNA than "Middle Eastern."

The Normans also colonized southern Italy and Sicily for a while, but for some reason that's never mentioned in these threads. Northern Italians have high percentages of Swiss German DNA, which certain DLers like to pretend they don't know.

I thought ‘Black Irish’ referred to Irish people with actual black ancestry like Phil Lynott from Thin Lizzy. Colin Farrell isn’t even remotely exotic looking. He looks like any other good ole boy from Texas.

It means black hair, dangerously pale white skin & blue eyes 👀 (sometimes brown eyes).