DOJ Sides With Idaho Law to Protect Women’s Sports From Transgender ‘Females’

Good!

My opinion is that if a M2F trans is 100% surgically altered then she should be allowed to compete as a female. After a point, I would think that with all the medications and hormones they have to take for the rest of their lives it changes their bodies to such an extent that most, if not all, of their former male musculature is gone. And face it, there are plenty of CIS female athletes who have built their bodies (naturally and through drugs) to such an extent that they are just as strong as most males.

Yeah because the ONLY difference between a man and a woman is muscles R2.

[quote] My opinion is that if a M2F trans is 100% surgically altered then she should be allowed to compete as a female. After a point, I would think that with all the medications and hormones they have to take for the rest of their lives it changes their bodies to such an extent that most, if not all, of their former male musculature is gone.

Former male musculature? SMDH. I think it's time you read up on the matter more. You couldn't be more wrong. It is not primarily about "medications and hormones". And, no, none of that changes a male body into a female body to any real extent for most sports.

In most sports physical strength is the only thing that matters. If a M2F trans no longer has the physical strength of his former male self and is determined to be on the same level of physical ability as the average female athlete, then she should be allowed to compete.

Just my 2 cents. I don't profess to be right.

[quote] My opinion is that if a M2F trans is 100% surgically altered then she should be allowed to compete as a female. After a point, I would think that with all the medications and hormones they have to take for the rest of their lives it changes their bodies to such an extent that most, if not all, of their former male musculature is gone.

No it doesn’t.

Skeletal structure does not change. Height does not charge. Arm span/reach does not change. Pelvis shake and q-angle does not change. Lung size abs capacity does not change. VO2 max capacity does not change.

Just off the top of my head.

As for muscle mass, the Karolinska Institute— the Nobel people— published a study last year showing that trans women athletes— that is bio men— do not lose leg muscle mass even after taking estrogen for years. Some even maintained or increased mass. And the patients surveyed were all amateur athletes; imagine what a professional could accomplish.

I’m sorry r2 but you are absolutely 100% incorrect.

At some point an active elite female sportswoman is going to voice her support for ongoing sex segregation, and when she does the TRAs are going to come for her in a way that makes the response to JK Rowling look like a book signing.

They'll campaign for her to lose all her sponsorship, to be banned from representing her country, from competing in events.

It will be brutal, but it needs to happen.

So now there’ll be serious sports and cislesbian sports!

[quote] If a M2F trans no longer has the physical strength of his former male self and is determined to be on the same level of physical ability as the average female athlete, then she should be allowed to compete.

An out-of/shape man is not a woman r2.

R2 Research has proven that is not true. Hormones are not an equalizer. When the body goes through male puberty and has male physiology, there are biological and physiological differences that remain regardless of hormone treatment. There are very few sports where peak female athletes would be competitive with male athletes -what sports are you thinking of?

They should not participate in women's sports, it just isn't fair.

"My opinion is that if a M2F trans is 100% surgically altered then she should be allowed to compete as a female. After a point, I would think that with all the medications and hormones they have to take for the rest of their lives it changes their bodies to such an extent that most, if not all, of their former male musculature is gone".

Thank you, R6, for outlining many of the reasons that this is idiotic rationalization.

I completely agree with this ruling.

Will there ever be separate categories for Koreans and Ethiopians in long distance running.

Cos it just isn’t fair my feelings.

They have enough to worry about...how can they compete?

The reason this is even a debate is because MTF athletes excel and win in a degree that is exponentially disproportionate to their percentage of the population. If transitioning was an equalizer we would never or rarely hear of MTF athletes excelling and winning because overall it is a very small demographic. But over and over we hear about it because when an MTF athlete competes in women's athletics, they win / excel.

Beyond a competitive advantage, in contact sports, it is also a safety issue.

So why don't we see transwomen competing in those floor exercises skipping along with ribbon on a stick or in a sparkly singlet making graceful dismounts all teeth for the judges?

It's always weight lifting,track and field or cycling when standing on the winners podium is a given.

Well, like I said. I don't profess to be right. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I'm certainly open to whatever the reality is.

r2 men retain 20% muscle advantage no matter how long they're on estrogen. I just saw the study on it.

[quote]Male physical performance advantage, attributed to superior anthropometric and muscle mass/strength parameters achieved at puberty, is not removed by the current regimen of testosterone suppression permitting participation of transgender women in female sports categories.

Here's the study

It guess it isn’t really a psychical argument, it’s a social one.

Do F to M participate in men's sports professionally?

r22, of course not. How could they?

I bet F to M participate at a higher rate.

Some sports everybody can play together: race car driving, horseback riding, and poker.

[quote]Some sports everybody can play together: race car driving, horseback riding, and poker.

Poker and equestrian yes, but name me a woman in horse racing or motor sport who regularly outperforms the men she competes alongside?

There's no biological basis for that though, R26.

Women in those fields need to buck up if they want to win.

R21, it is a physical/physics argument played out in a social field.

An extreme example is that 6 foot 2 inch tall, 220 lb transwomen in Australia who plays handball. No amount of hormones or "medicine" is going to help make her competing in the women's league fair.

Gender segregation is social.

It would be just as unfair for a 6'4' 250lb man to compete against a 5'6' 130lb man.

But you don't care about that.

R29, that's not a fair argument. The average height and weight of a man will fall between the extremes of those examples you gave. There will always be bigger and smaller outliers on the curve.

However, compare the average weight and height of a woman to a transwoman that is 6'2" and 220 lbs and you are almost beyond the curve.

Well, most female athletes of big, butch lesbians.

If a small MtF wants to compete with them, according to your logic, that would make it fair.

So now you'll change your logic to cover for the fact you just hate MtFs.

[quote]Gender segregation is social. It would be just as unfair for a 6'4' 250lb man to compete against a 5'6' 130lb man.

Boxing and other fighting sports segregate on weight.

And the nature of sport means it's unlikely that 2 men of those dimensions would compete alongside each other in elite sport.

A man who is 5'6 and 130lb would be a good diver or gymnast, but wouldn't have the physiology to compete in high level cardio sports.

A man who is 6'4 and 250lbs would be a good rower or field athlete - shot put, discuss, archery etc, but again physiology...

R31, that's a sweeping generalization about women athletes, as well as saying that all people critical of transwomen playing in women's sports hate transwomen.

[quote] [R2] men retain 20% muscle advantage no matter how long they're on estrogen. I just saw the study on it.

Thank you. I retract my original comment and opinion.

Thank you for posting that, R20. Always handy to have studies to hand.

[quote]Boxing and other fighting sports segregate on weight.

This is what should happen for all sports: abolish gender segregation and replace it with classes based on weight, height, musculature, etc.

[quote][R31], that's a sweeping generalization about women athletes

Less so than R30's about male bodies.

[quote]This is what should happen for all sports: abolish gender segregation and replace it with classes based on weight, height, musculature, etc.

Give me an example where an elite athlete with a vagina regular posts times or distances that would beat an athlete with a penis who has the same physique?

[quote]Give me an example where an elite athlete with a vagina regular posts times or distances that would beat an athlete with a penis who has the same physique?

If they had the same physique including testosterone levels it should happen regularly, since sports are gender segregated we don't know.

R38 They can't have the same testosterone levels. MtF have much higher testosterone levels than biological females even after hormone treatment. Their testosterone levels decrease and are lower than biological males but still significantly higher than biological females.

[quote][R38] They can't have the same testosterone levels. MtF have much higher testosterone levels than biological females even after hormone treatment. Their testosterone levels decrease and are lower than biological males but still significantly higher than biological females.

Put people in categories with people who have similar levels to them.

This isn't hard.

[quote]If they had the same physique including testosterone levels it should happen regularly, since sports are gender segregated we don't know.

At the World Championships in Doha last year, Shelley-Ann Fraser-Pryce won the gold medal in 100m in a time of 10.80.

In the first heats of the men's 100m, 44 of the 45 men who finished their races ran faster than Fraser-Pryce's gold medal winning time. In the semi finals, all 24 men ran faster than Fraser-Pryce's gold medal winning time.

Christian Coleman won gold with a time of 9.76, a massive 10% faster than Fraser-Pryce.

But yeah, it's gender not biological sex that determines outcomes.

You missed the point entirely.

Yes, the most elite men are better than the most elite women.

But they could prove they're better than SOME men if the gender segregation was abolished.

[quote]You missed the point entirely.

[quote]Yes, the most elite men are better than the most elite women.

[quote]But they could prove they're better than SOME men if the gender segregation was abolished.

No, I got your point.

The fastest 100m runner with a vagina would have come 45th out of 46th if they were racing alongside 100m runners with penises.

That's why you'd have different classes. Like boxing. They don't have to mention gender.

r32 have you never heard of Fallon Fox who broke the skulls of two women he boxed against (as a 'woman') and then bragged about it?

That reveals the danger of gender segregation -- it puts wildly different bodies in the same category. It should be done to have equal bodies against equal bodies.

In an ideal world, if there wasn't such dimorphism in the sexes and everyone went through the same changes in puberty, then equal bodies in sports would work.

However, that is not the case. Gender does not equal sex. Inherent biological differences can't be dismissed in most sports.

[quote]Inherent biological differences can't be dismissed in most sports.

True.

That's why it's unfair to expect short men to compete with tall men in most sports, for instance.

Hence the need for classes segregated by objective biological reality (height, weight) not social concepts (male, female).

A totally agree with the DOJ and Idaho Law.

R42, a tennis player ranked roughly the 200th male in the world once beat both of the Williams sisters while smoking. Katie Ledecky easily outswims her female opponents, but wouldn't even have qualified for the Olympics if men and women competed against each other. Our species is sexually dimorphic.

War on women. FUCK the fake women who invade women’s sports. Fuck ‘em up, down, and sideways.

The top women's teams in soccer, cricket, baseball, whatever get routinely thrashed by under-18 male teams.

Then they'll just have to train harder !

Why are men allowed to compete against women?

You need to contact your Senators to have them take out the 'gender identity' language from the proposed changes to the Equality Act. Gay rights are GONE if that language stays in.

R51 "Fuck ‘em up, down, and sideways."

And don't forget frontways!

"CO-ED"! Trans women can compete on CO-ED teams. That embraces all the genders/sexes and it's FAIR to the competitors because they all agree to play together.

I can't believe I agree with Bully Billy Barr.

R55, I hadn't really thought about this before - but if the law replaces "sex" with "gender", does that mean someone could legally be sacked for being homosexual? The employer could say, "Oh, of course I don't have a problem with employing gays and lesbians! I don't have a problem with same-gender partners. But I DO have a problem with same-sex partners." And since sex-based protections would no longer be in effect, wouldn't this be legal?

r58 EXACTLY. The conflation of sex with gender identity is THE END of gay people and women's sex-based protections. CONTACT YOUR SENATORS.

Maybe short people can't be in professional sports (unless they're jockeys or something). Not everybody is good at everything. We don't need different classes in each sport. That person who keeps bringing that up needs to get over it. I SUCK at sports. Should there be a special class or league for me? That's not the way life is.

Only an idiot would agree with a bunch of Republicans from Idaho. These people hate gays AND trans people

Finally the voice of reason. . Why not have trans events? Men's events, women's events and trans events.

R62 thinks Idaho Republicans are the voice of reason. How far to the right are you? These same people thought the world would end if gay people got married

LOL

[quote] An out-of/shape man

Oh dear.

r63 Another American lacking critical thinking skills.

In UFC bantam weight fighters weigh 135 lbs and are on average 5’3-5’8. A 5’3 135 lb Henry cejudo would destroy the a female fighter who was on his level in her division as well as the same height and weight.

R2 couldn't be wronger.

[quote]Why not have trans events? Men's events, women's events and trans events.

Add intersex athletes to the third category - it’s insane that XY males with low testosterone are competing as “females with high testosterone” in events like the Olympics. Caster Semenya clearly has male bone structure which means longer limbs and different skeletal mechanics than a biological woman has.

Hormones don’t undo bone structure (and Semenya has refused to go on hormone therapy, anyhow.) Having an underdeveloped penis and internal testes makes you no less a man, just as chopping off your male genitals will not make you a woman.

This is the opposite she was a great swimmer (ranked 1 and 2) on the women's team but when she became he, he ended up ranking last on the men's team.

That munchkin voice really clocks her though.

[quote]It would be just as unfair for a 6'4' 250lb man to compete against a 5'6' 130lb man.

No, it wouldn't. That smaller man would still have stronger bones, bigger muscles, a larger lung capacity, a more balanced hip structure, and on and on compared to an equally sized women. You need to take a science class.

[quote]Hence the need for classes segregated by objective biological reality (height, weight) not social concepts (male, female).

Male and female are biological reality, you moron. Gender is a social construct. Do you fucking idiots live in bizarro world?

Good.

You know whats really scary. One day we will reach a point and dilemma with a transgender who doesn't wish to cosmetically change at all. I'm serious. There is going to be someone who looks like Lebron James, who doesn't take hormones, get breast implants, wear makeup etc. who insists they are a woman. There is going to be a person who will insist they are a woman with no desire to change their male appearance. This is what regular people mean when they sey the left just doesn't get it. And yes I am a leftist. But these laws championed by the ACLU and progressives will allow the Lebron James lookalike to enter female restrooms and even play in professional female sports. A society must have some rules, some since of I can't put my finger on it--maybe normalcy. Anything can't just go. And no that doesn't mean that gays should be discriminated against. Does anyone else get my drift? All this cancel culture, and everything. My god i pray for the the 21st century.

It’s already happened, R72:

[quote] The top women's teams in soccer, cricket, baseball, whatever get routinely thrashed by under-18 male teams.

The US women’s pro soccer team was beaten by an amateur team of thirteen year old boys.

The reason this is happening is because for decades dykes tried to force people to pretend women’s sports should be taken as seriously as non-classed sports.

So this is funny.

Caster Semenya is a special case imo and, while tangential to the trans v female battle of the gender wars, you can reasonably NOT have a position in Semenya while still strongly opposing Males in female sports (or strongly supporting it). You can think that a postpuberty male competing against postpuberty females is problematic while also leaving the genetic gordian knot that Semenya's case represents to the morons on the ioc.

I guess the point is sex isn’t always as clearly defined as rad fems want to say it is.

And that different cultures have different responses when that’s the case.

R76 and the problem with THAT is that sex is virtually ALWAYS "clearly defined." There are more people with six fingers than with ambiguous genetalia or other infertile intersex conditions, but nobody would say " the point is that human hands aren't clearly defined..." Because that would be unproductive and purposely misleading.

Well, as Caster proves, not always.

[quote]You can think that a postpuberty male competing against postpuberty females is problematic while also leaving the genetic gordian knot that Semenya's case represents to the morons on the ioc.

“Genetic gordian knot?” Caster has XY chromosomes. Not mosaic. MALE. An endocrine condition does not change your sex, nor do genital deformities, but the acceptance of this decades ago opened the door to the current trans ideology we face now.

This was written with Caster Semenya's case in mind

The answer to all this is for radical feminists to go public and say, ‘We can’t compete. Women’s sports are a joke. A five year old boy can beat us.’

But they want to maintain two contradictory ideas. They asked for this.

"This is what should happen for all sports: abolish gender segregation and replace it with classes based on weight, height, musculature, etc."

First, tell us how they are going to measure "musculature".

Second, Do you think team sports will even exist if you create weight divisions for entire teams? It will hurt women especially because even if you add all the MTFs, having different weight class teams would require many more participants.

Third, shall we follow this to its logical conclusion and have different teams for people in wheelchairs or blind or missing a certain limb? Will there be a one armed basketball team?

It is this lunacy that turns people off the movement.

Some people are not going to like this. But I think it is no coincidence that this trans trend bubbled up shortly after the Equality act was passed. Yes, I know it is not a new phenomenon, but the current firestorm is much more contentious than in the past. Forcing society to acknowledge some basic facts about gay people and homosexuality in general still conflicts with many societal norms. Coming to terms with your sexual identity isn't the obstacle course that it once was, but it still might be difficult for certain personalities. Realizing that the world says there is nothing wrong with you but still having the church your parents take you to condemn your 'lifestyle'. Knowing that same sex attraction is natural but also hearing your friends on the football team throw gay around as an insult. Having friends who accept you, but only if you are one of those "Top" fags. Taking refuge behind a medical trend allows some relief, I imagine. Especially with all the support of your trans brethren.

So yes, there is pain out there. Yes, there are genuine cases out there that should be addressed. But I don't think all this acting out and these foolish demands are helping those who might really need help. I support your right to address your sexuality any way want including surgery. But when your theory starts infringing on the rights of others, it is time to re-evaluate. Because all this is doing is damaging the gains made by Gays and Lesbians. And when you destroy that, you won't have a leg to stand on.

Write your Senator's! and be sure to vote. Especially in the senate. There is a lot of work to do.

It's interesting that you rarely see F2M trans competing in sports against bio males. Is it because they know they'd be outclassed by the bio males so they don't even bother? I think so. And I think that's why you see so many M2F trans fighting to compete against bio females. Because they know that for the most part they would outclass the bio females and have a physical advantage. And that's not fair sportsmanship IMO.

IMO trans athletes should only compete against other trans athletes.

I still don't see why one class of people (ciswomen) should be owed special sports and others (like short men) shouldn't be.

[quote]I still don't see why one class of people (ciswomen) should be owed special sports and others (like short men) shouldn't be.

Gee, maybe it's because women make up half of the population? Besides that, who is stopping you from starting a league that caters to short men? No one.

[quote]Gee, maybe it's because women make up half of the population?

Men below the average median height also make up half the population.

No they don't, you dumbass. But again, no one is stopping anyone from creating a sports league for short men.

Nobody is stopping these orgs renaming themselves The Ciswomen's League of XYZ.

R2,the biological male "girls" who have been competing against biological girls at sports in schools in Connecticut have undergone no surgical or chemical alteration whatsoever. This Idaho law is to prevent that kind of thing.

[quote][R2],the biological male "girls" who have been competing against biological girls at sports in schools in Connecticut have undergone no surgical or chemical alteration whatsoever.

I thought they were on estrogen. It's incredibly unhealthy to do that to your body anyway.

[quote]Nobody is stopping these orgs renaming themselves The Ciswomen's League of XYZ.

You think a name is going to make a difference? They'll get brigaded the same way Michfest did, and probably sued too. Whereas no one is going to give a shit if a "short mans" league is exclusionary to tall men. So just stop with the false equivalences.

I think people only care because they've been brainwashed into thinking women's sports are in any way serious.

Or maybe the trannies care, simply because males can't stand to see women have something for themselves, whether they consider it worthwhile or not.

[quote]Or maybe the trannies care, simply because males can't stand to see women have something for themselves, whether they consider it worthwhile or not.

And to employ the same logic: if you only care about fairness in sport when it comes to sex and not other factors, you're probably just a transphobe.

[quote]And to employ the same logic: if you only care about fairness in sport when it comes to sex and not other factors, you're probably just a transphobe.

Who says I don't? I already told you that you have my blessing to start a short men's league honey. I'm rooting for you, and for all the short men out there.

[quote]Who says I don't?

Your transphobic posting history, fish.

But where is my anti short-man posting history honey? That's what you were accusing me of being indifferent to.

Your history is nothing buy homophobia and transphobia. You don't care about sports.

Which is a shame, there's no chance someone could polevault into your cunt.

r97, Short People?

R7, Martina came out against it and was horribly attacked. She’s been beaten down into saying nothing. Outsports, too, was anti-M2F in women’s sports but they were attacked so much they are now championing the cause as it were. The pro -trans activists are ruthless in this as you saw with JKR.

r100, she spoke out yesterday, enraged about what happened to Allison.

To stop this they need a catchy slogan. Ideas?

“We can’t compete!

Keep trans out of the heat!”

Plastic surgery and hormones will not alter bone structure or change lung capacity, this is a biological fact. For this reason trans people need to compete based on their sex, not what they think they are.

I don’t care what surgery they had or how much estrogen or testosterone they take, a male is male and a female will always be female.

The madness needs to end.

To the sexist asshole stinking up this thread, many women prefer to watch women's sports because, just like with men watching male sports, they relate and live their little sports dreams out vicariously. Also, in some sports, like basketball and soccer, the women's game is a more pure game without the superstar showboater taking over everything. It's the same reason some people prefer college athletics to professional.

Your inability to understand basic biology is just ridiculous. You have a misogynistic agenda that is very clear but that's not unusual when it comes to transfanatics like yourself. In fact, it seems to actually be the sole purpose of their existence.

[quote]many women prefer to watch women's sports

Ratings say otherwise.

R105, I didn't say that tons of women watch women's sports. Tons of women don't like to watch any sports. I said many prefer to watch women's sports as in if they are going to watch sports, they'll watch women's if it's available. Of course, women's sports are barely telecast, so there's that, too.

The fact that they'll broadcast every single little league world series game but you can't find national level women's soccer games filled with world cup winning players is ridiculous. Little league baseball is pathetic to watch but boys outrank women in our world, no matter what society tries to pretend.

[quote] Of course, women's sports are barely telecast, so there's that, too. The fact that they'll broadcast every single little league world series game but you can't find national level women's soccer games filled with world cup winning players is ridiculous.

Yes, it's all part of some great big anti-womyn conspiracy.

Not because women can't compete with just pubescent boys, as they were saying above.

The transgenda is a homophobic, misogynist agenda which seeks to colonize women's spaces, silence women's voices and steal the word woman whilst dismantling all the sex-based rights that protect gays, lesbians and women, as a whole. Trans-ideology is radical conservatism.

so my niece tells me I pronounce it wrong. I asked her about all this sizz gender and she tells me it's sis gender!

[quote] The transgenda is a homophobic, misogynist agenda which seeks to colonize women's spaces, silence women's voices and steal the word woman whilst dismantling all the sex-based rights that protect gays, lesbians and women, as a whole. Trans-ideology is radical conservatism.

No, 'sex-based rights' don't protect gays.

They're not even related.

R110, see the latest Supreme Court decision on employment to prove your dumb ass completely wrong.

'Sex based rights' is a nonsensical term.

Gay men are protected by specific laws that prohibit discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.

A trans woman in a sport is no threat to me.

The people here mocking women’s sports don’t get the point of sports in general. The primary purpose of competitive sports is not entertainment, but to improve physical health, agility, cooperation, teamwork, and provides healthy competition, and a relatively safe way to release aggression.

Women and girls need this as much as boys and men. And most men won’t make it into the pros anyhow. So while sports entertainment is male-dominated because they play at a higher level, women in sports serve as excellent role models for girls and it’s idiotic to dismiss them because they can’t compete against men.

[quote]The primary purpose of competitive sports is not entertainment, but to improve physical health, agility, cooperation, teamwork, and provides healthy competition, and a relatively safe way to release aggression.

Correct. It's a social thing, not a purely competitive thing. Which is why trans women should be allowed compete.

Transfems are men as their DNA testing proves. . Let them compete with men Or better yet create Trans games. Not complicated.

[quote]Correct. It's a social thing, not a purely competitive thing. Which is why trans women should be allowed compete.

Yes - against each other.

No, against their social category -- women!

Unless you want them abolished and replaced with biological categories. Tall ciswomen against tall ciswomen, for instance.

R117 just because you repeat the same thing over and over again won’t make it true.

A 5’4 135lb Male MMA fighter will beat the shit out of a 5’4 female 135lb MMA fighter.

6’8 Brittney greiner would get crushed by 6”9 Lebrón James.

Try again.

R83, I will say it again and again. Why are there so many dam MTFs compared to FTMs. It deserves discussion. Can the scientific community explain. The same community that says its OK to mutilate your body and become the opposite sex.

R117 FTMs NOT demanding a place in men’s sports is the best illustration of physical, temperamental, and social limitations that go far beyond height. (Kudos to R119 for that excellent point.) And if you think “woman” is a social category, why do MTFs behave like entitled men, intruding into women’s spaces, bullying them. FTMs are - frankly - docile in comparison.

I noticed this at a panel where the MTFs talked over lesbians and FTMs, yet showed respect to other biological men. If they are trying to fit the social category of “women”, they are doing a terrible job of it.

R120, they aren't trying to fit in to anything. They are trying to redefine what a woman is by using their bullshit, regressive, sexist definition. They are men in womanface and should be treated the same way white people in blackface are treated.

Woman face is a homophobic term used by bigoted women to describe drag.

R122=Stefonknee

R123 = Sharron (Horseface) Davies

R122, go ahead and define the difference between a white person pretending to be black by dressing/acting/looking stereotypically black and a man pretending to be a woman by dressing/actin/looking stereotypically female.

Then, you can explain how transsexual is a thing but transracial isn't.

I'll wait over here for you to not answer.

Why are anti-drag rad fems allowed to post on DL?

The trans even get surgery to try to give them the physical characteristics of the sex they're pretending to be. Imagine a white person getting surgery to look black.

At least sharron got to fuck the beautiful Derek Redmond all Stefonknee/r124 got to fuck was his elderly mommy and daddy he met at a sex club

R126, the gay men on here aren't stupid enough to fall for your bullshit trying to throw drag queens into the trans pool. You want to know what group hates drag performers? The MtF transtapo.

Fairness has to be central.

Ciswomen shouldn’t have to compete with trans women so much better than them, maybe just eight year old boys.

The trans community has far less power than the rad fems to do anything about drag.

When critiquing trans, please don’t play into homophobia by using anti-drag terms.

That’s homophobic at a time when gay men are under attack.

R6 and R20, thank you for that. I was on the fence on this and ready to take R2's position but the facts you presented changed my mind

Drag can loosely fall into two categories - men who celebrate strong women (Miss Coco Peru, Lily Savage etc) and those who use their drag act to degrade women, specifically disgust at the female anatomy and biological functions.

Some drag is pure misogyny and gay men shouldn't be afraid to say that.

And that homophobia is on full display!

Yes r128, it's interesting how the trannies are always so disparaging of what real women look like.

If ciswomen so much better than trans women, R135, then they shouldn’t be so worried about what trans women think of their looks.

But they seem pretty insecure.

Maybe trans women are just better women than then.

God knows drag queens prove looking better than a cis women is easier for men.

Scratch a transphobe, a homophobe bleeds.

[quote] You want to know what group hates drag performers? The MtF transtapo.

They nearly bullied Miss Coco Peru into early retirement, and as R133 mentioned, she is one of the queens who affectionately portrays a strong female character.

Yes, and transwomen need to know their place.

Gay men need to start advocating for gay men only. Not women or ciswomen.

Men & women do sports together.

Caitlyn is ahead of the times.

[quote]Scratch a transphobe, a homophobe bleeds.

The absolute bullshit that spews forth from the transtapo gives the Trumptards a run for their money. It's like their world is just the opposite of truth at all times. The trans movement is the most homophobic and misogynistic movement outside the Repug party.

[quote]The trans movement is the most homophobic and misogynistic movement outside the Repug party.

Do you think you could ever bring yourself to just say 'homophobic' not 'homophobic and misogynistic'?

Gay rights have nothing to do with fish.

I am totally opposed to homophobic trans.

R142, I think I'll ignore the advice of a sexist asshole like you so, no, I won't. Homophobia is based in misogyny, you moronic, misogynistic dipshit.

r136, a transwoman cannot be a better woman than a cis woman. A transwoman is a man.

This is a deeply homophobic statement:

[quote]Homophobia is based in misogyny, you moronic, misogynistic dipshit.

And when homophobia comes from feminists then what?

We no longer have the language we need to talk about our oppression and experiences as gay men.

Our struggle is made constantly subservient to women's.

[quote][R136], a transwoman cannot be a better woman than a cis woman.

If that is so self-evident then ciswomen who fear that have nothing to fear.

R146 has to be a troll. No one can really be this stupid.

R145, your whining is absurd.

[quote][R145], your whining is absurd.

Gay men wanting to be able to speak about their oppression on a gay website is absurd.

Go run into a fist, R147.

its only fair, theyr still men with their testosterone ish bodys….

Do they even have *much* more testosterone than the average butch lesbian who dominates in women's sports?

r119, there aren't, actually. Teenage girls becoming FtM VASTLY outnumber all MtFs, but for some reason, you can guess what it is, MtFs are the loudest, most aggressive, most entitled, most violent, most demanding, most well-connected, most wealthy and most visible members of the trans cult.

[quote]Teenage girls becoming FtM VASTLY outnumber all MtFs

Do you have a source for that?

The new "pride" flag...

Do they ever retweet anything that features the words 'gay men' before 'lesbian'?

That's brilliant, R153.