Who Here Never Went To or Never Completed College?

No. I'm a self-made actress and design influencer worth millions. I barely graduated high school.

I have my own mall.

I finally completed college when I was in my 30s. It didn't get me any further financially but it made me feel better about myself.

I'm a middle-aged male and I never went at all. I never wanted to go. I was a great student, but college seemed tedious and expensive and I wanted to get my life started away from a bunch of similarly-aged yahoos.

I'm an actor and I make a living. I went to a second rate drama school for awhile but they cut me after a year. I've done a lot of service jobs, the usual ones, and I've never starved, I am a very hard worker. I guess most would consider me on the lower end of earners most of the time, but I don't think I'm any more broke as most people, plus I've never had to pay off a student loan and I really enjoy my life.

R4 Will you marry me? You exude confidence.

I always think it's so strange that Matt Damon never was graduated from Harvard. You'd think he would have gone back to finish the degree at a certain point.

R6 Why? With his resume, why would Matt Damon need Harvard?

I have a 4 year BS and I am still broke and out of work.

College degrees are not just filler for resumés; they signify actual significant training in critical thinking. Given especially that his mother is a college professor of education, I'm sure he grew up believing in the value of an education.

Well today's colleges are anti-critical thinking.

R9 Nope. College degrees are exactly a 'filler for resumes' - but thanks for playing.

[quote] Well today's colleges are anti-critical thinking.

He left college in 1992--nearly thirty years ago, and only one semester's worth of credits shy of finishing his degree.

I make over 200k a year as a dues paying member of local 40

--I don't, but I often wish I'd gone this route instead of living in poverty as a grad-educated engineer

I suspect it's a point of pride for Matt DAmon not to have a college degree, so he can role play as a southie from the wrong side of the tracks or whatever the fuck he thinks he is

I imagine a liberal arts education today is a nightmare of woke reexamination of texts from history. And lots of students demanding to be referred to by their alt pronouns (instead of sitting in a hospital with a MPD diagnosis).

I barely completed two years of community college because I hadn't a clue about what profession I wanted to pursue. So I hit the road, travelled around the world, discovered along the way that I had an eye for detail and could coherently write, became a PR officer (later Director), then software tech writer. Since it's paid the bills and provided me with a decent life, I feel the two years I spent at college were a complete waste.

Nope never finished college:

Bill Gates = Microsoft

Steve Jobs = Apple

Mark Zuckerberg = Facebook

Anthony Robbins = Anthony Robbins

Richard Branson = Virgin Atlantic, Records etc.

Steven Spielberg = Director

Ralph Lauren = Ralph Lauren

Jack Dorsey = Twitter

Travis Kalanick = Uber

Micheal Dell = Dell Computers

Walt Disney = Disneyland

Fredric Royce = Rolls Royce

George Eastman = Kodak

The Wright Brothers = Invented the worlds first flying airplane

Thomas Edison = the Light Bulb

Mary Kay Ash = Pink Cadillacs and bad makeup

Accumulated credits to sophomore. Poverty? My experience is that the vast majority of those with college degrees couldn't pound salt into a rat hole.

Who keeps trying to perpetuate this myth that no college degree leads to poverty?

Why do some college grads consider themselves to be on a different social level?

I have a BA from a prestigious, private liberal arts college, and an MA from a state university. While I don't live in poverty, I do live paycheck to paycheck. These days, college degrees are inflated -Where once a BA was the holy grail, now you have to have at least an MA to get a foot in the door. A school's name value can help you along, but a name school is no guarantee that the person is educated or capable of complex thought. If you want to learn, you will learn wherever you go. But if you're only pursuing a degree, you can go to a big name school and still graduate an idiot.

It still holds true that the more schooling you have, the more money you make. Don't be fooled by the exceptions, because that's what they are.

Nope, never completed HIGH SCHOOL:

Francois Pinault (Mr. Selma Hayek), Net Worth: $32.8 Billion

Li Ka-Shing, Net Worth: $32.6 Billion

Richard Branson, Net Worth: $6.8 Billion

Carl Lindner, Jr. (Mr. Chiquita Banana), Net Worth: $1.7 Billion

Amancio Ortega (Mr. Zara and Massimo Duti), Net Worth: $31 Billion

Kirk Kerkorian, Net Worth: $3.1 Billion

As my very first college professor once told the call on the first day of school "if for nothing else, a good reason to finish college is so that I don't have to listen to a 20 minute diatribe of why you dropped out when all I did was ask a casual question about what college you graduated from during a dinner."

He proved to be correct.

[quote] I imagine a liberal arts education today is a nightmare of woke reexamination of texts from history.

And what is this imagining based upon? The popular news media?

In 2000 only 60% of people in the US enrolled in some form of college, it now up to about 69%. And out of that, only about 60% actually finished a 4 year degree or higher. So that works out to be only about 34% of Adults in the US have a real college degree.

Now lets say you are a narcissistic, reality show host who want's to be president. Who should you target your appeal to? The educated 34% or the 66% basket of Deplorables?

[quote]The educated 34% or the 66% basket of Deplorables?

It takes an arrogant elitist cunt to characterize anyone without a college degree as "deplorable".

Works for me.

I never went to college. It's a regret, sure, but not something I spend any amount of time worrying about now. I make my living as a secretary making $84,000 a year. It's not a career, it's just a job. Does it make me happy? No, I hate it actually, though I am grateful for my job. But it's not exactly what I dreamed of, no.

[quote]No, I hate it actually, though I am grateful for my job. But it's not exactly what I dreamed of, no.

90% of those who go to college don't end up with their dream job. That's kind of a fantasy.

[quote]As my very first college professor once told the call on the first day of school

The call?

^class^ not call.

The money my parents gave to me to register for the SAT was instead spent on eight hits of "A Tribute to Jerry Garcia" LSD blotters.

Oprah and Sly Stallone went back and finished their degrees years late. I think Stallone got credit for his work.

I'm currently finishing my degree after 14 years of absence, it can be done.

George Eastman of Kodak didn't graduate, and that's why Kodak sunk. He missed the final subject about Change.

Briefly matriculated here and there, but it was a couple years after h.s. ended. I hated it. I love learning but hate school.

I hate work, too. Can't believe these people who are afraid to retire. I've hated every McJob I've ever had. But the thought of being a lawyer or teacher or dentist or accountant is even more repulsive.

I loved school. I hate corporate life. Should have been a landscaper but you’re supposed to do “something white collar” with a college degree. Unfortunately more and more college is STEM / technical training. So I don’t see it as much different from a plumbing apprenticeship.

[quote]I make my living as a secretary making $84,000 a year.

r27 I want to know where you live that secretaries make 84k a year! Do you have any openings gurl?

I have a Ph.D. I'm over 100K in debt. I'll be 50 this year and I'm doing temp work.

I make good money as a college graduate. But my brothers -- each of whom just barely graduated high school -- make equivalent or even better money (depending on the year) owning small trade businesses.

I dropped out after two years. Worked in film production for a couple of years then got an admin job at a marketing startup. I love research and writing so I became a copywriter there. Eventually got a job at a big ad agency where I rose the ranks to become a creative director. Then went freelance, where an average year was 230k. Recently I took a full time job at one of the big tech companies. I’m back in the trenches as a mid-level writer making 130k but I also got a considerable sum of stock options.

So no, I’m not living in poverty. I have a shit ton of money saved and a couple of fat investment accounts. That said I am burning out and looking into finishing my degree then grad school to become a psychotherapist.

I’m very happy with how things have turned out so far.

I went to a small claustrophobic rural college in the south and hated it, I was itching to get out of there. I dropped out my junior year and moved to the city and started cooking in restaurants. I love the creativity of my business, and normally I have a lot more job security than a lot of college grads, but I do wish I made more money. I don't look up to people with Bachelor's degrees, it's mostly a cetificate of social acceptability- you don't have to actually know anything or have a skill unless it's STEM.

Lawyer here, but neither college nor law school were significantly helpful in the actual practice of law. Those degrees are just the price of admission to do something that anyone can do.

[quote]George Eastman of Kodak didn't graduate, and that's why Kodak sunk. He missed the final subject about Change.

He also missed the part that when you become successful, not to commit suicide.

[quote]I have a Ph.D. I'm over 100K in debt. I'll be 50 this year

Why are you in so much debt? Ph.D.s didn't cost that much 25 years ago. That cant be from school. Other bad life choices?

[quote]I dropped out after two years. Worked in film production for a couple of years then got an admin job at a marketing startup. I love research and writing so I became a copywriter there. Eventually got a job at a big ad agency where I rose the ranks to become a creative director. Then went freelance, where an average year was 230k. Recently I took a full time job at one of the big tech companies

I'm calling bull shit on this. First, film is very hard to get into period, you have to know someone to get your foot in the door even for the lowest of jobs. Secondly, ad agencies love degrees, I have never met a creative director without one from a good art school. Third, if you were making 230K, why the hell would you go to work for 100K less? No stock option, which is a gamble I might add is worth that kind of cut in pay.

I took a break after my first semester and never went back to finish. I originally put my studies on pause to be there for an ailing family member but during that the break I realized how incompetent my professors were. They were the embodiment of 'those who can't do, teach' and I had been ignoring how useless they were just because of the friends I made.

Basically my college was famous in my industry but it's curriculum was a little out of date and the school was better to attend for networking rather than for learning. I'm just glad I didn't incur any debt.

I ended up doing paid a mentorship instead which lead to a lot of opportunities, I worked insanely hard and now I have a lot of skills to fall back on. I now my own business and it's doing well. I used to feel ashamed about never finishing my degree but I was cured of that after I had long term relationship with someone who was going through post grad. There was a lot more bullshit than I was expecting.

To other people in this thread that never finished a degree. Would you accept a honorary degree if it was offered to you? I'm so disillusioned by the college industry that I'm not sure I would.

I look for new hires with a liberal arts education. I can train them more easily and I know they have more rounded education, not just a career track eduction.

I'll teach them what they'll need to succeed in my business, and not waste time unlearning them for what they don't need.

R15 Even at the school I went to 10 years ago that was already beginning. I had an English prof who was a post-structuralist marxist, and referenced Freud constantly in class. Meanwhile in my psych class we were being told Freud was an unscientific quack and to disregard his theories...

I wrote an essay for the English class on a book I straight up didn't read, knowing that all I had to do was cherry pick quotes about the protagonist fearing rape, or feeling raped. He GUSHED in front of the class, I was the only student who got an A.

I was sitting there like, the fuck am I wasting my time on? How is this helping me?

[quote]To other people in this thread that never finished a degree. Would you accept a honorary degree if it was offered to you? I'm so disillusioned by the college industry that I'm not sure I would.

So you are not over it, asking such a question means you are pondering some kind of fantasy that people with degrees don't even think about. And ironically, an honorary degree is the epitome of a worthless piece of paper, it's literally just for show.

R46 You're looking for graduates who have completed finishing school. They are socialized in the way you consider proper.

[quote] I wrote an essay for the English class on a book I straight up didn't read, ... I was the only student who got an A. I was sitting there like, the fuck am I wasting my time on? How is this helping me?

Um, because you cheated and didn't get caught that makes college a wast of time? That's some twisted justification. College is supposed to be based on your actual desire to learn and adhere to ethical values of your own volition. Maybe you should have applied some of that psych training on yourself.

I have 2 degrees but I'm still chronically under-employed for what they are. But this is due to my pathological lack of ambition.

R50 I was being coached into a worldview, not educated.

I was being rewarded for parroting a professor's opinions back to him when it should have been obvious I hadn't done the work.

I took my psych classes seriously and loved them, but liberal arts colleges force you to take classes in all subject areas to graduate.

[quote] I was being coached into a worldview, not educated.

Based on one class, on one example.

R53 Bitch, there are other examples, that was the most illustrative one I could summarize in a comment. Were you there? You seem very bothered by this.

Yes, one post on this thread of seven words indicates I am very bothered.

It's a good thing you learned critical thinking all on your own. No college needed for you.

R52 is digging himself into a deeper and deeper hole of excuses. LOL

[quote]I was being coached into a worldview, not educated. I was being rewarded for parroting a professor's opinions back to him when it should have been obvious I hadn't done the work.

Maybe what you could have learned but failed to do is that the world is not perfect and neither are all professors. Or that you have an innate desire to cheat the system if you can get a way with it. College is more than just learning a specific subject matter. In fact most of what you learn has nothing to do with what you study.

I have 2 degrees (technically, 3 if you count my AA).

I wanted to be the next Sue Simmons on NBC in NY. I was a Broadcast Journalism major. Since the school was close to NY, I figured internships would be plentiful. But my school's department was very small. Most students were on the 5-year plan. I quit after my freshman year because I couldn't register for any courses in my major the next year. I didn't want to go to college for FIVE years, even if tuition was low (about $250 a credit).

I worked as a secretary and wanted to do more but, back in the 80s, everyone needed a degree. So I went to a Community College. Since my credits were transferable, it only took 18 months going nights. Of course, then everyone said I needed a Bachelor's degree. I re-enrolled at my previous college, went nights and weekends while working full-time and graduated with a degree in Sociology. At the time, I was working in HR and wanted a Psych degree but it wasn't offered at night. I was lucky in that the company I was working for offered tuition reimbursement so they essentially paid for my BA. Funny thing - when I first attended this school it was a "college." When I graduated it was a "university."

After going to school nights and weekends, I got bored. So 2 years later, I enrolled in a Masters program in Addiction Counseling. It was just starting out and I only needed to take the GRE. More nights and weekends but this time with student loan debt. I wanted a career I could fall back on in case I lost my job in HR (the company was going through downsizing/right-sizing/re-engineering. All the buzzwords for layoffs.) But the AC externships took a toll on me. Parents who lost their children and/or jobs because of their drinking. A young HS grad who wasn't allowed to walk during graduation and lost his scholarship because of something stupid he did while drinking. It got to the place where I was having a glass or 2 of wine when I got home from those group sessions. I never sought state certification to practice as an MSW.

Anyway, I'm still in HR and make a pretty good living. Not 100k but pretty close to it. As someone upthread mentioned, I'm not working in either field. The MA cost me about $25k in student loan debt. I made double payments while attending school, then refinanced with Sallie Mae. Paid it off last April; took about 14 years.

barely eeked out a worthless BA in Environmental Studies in 1981. Never used it and followed my passion in the airline and travel industry . Excelled and retired comfortably. The college piece was to satisfy my mother. It took me three colleges and 5 years to get the silly thing. Hey it was her money.

R48 I'm actually asking because I'm now considered exceptional in my field, I am well known and I have a lot of connections to people in academia. It's literally on the cards for me and one of my mentors also dropped out and got given one much later on in his life. Universities have started to hand them out regularly now and I wouldn't even be the first in my family to be given one because my grandfather got one in the 60s. I don't know why you almost sound angry over it seems like that's your own insecurity.

Apologies. I've insulted some very deeply intelligent, intellectual shut-ins' egos.

Just so you know, I could have stayed another year and left with a diploma with my utter lack of critical thinking skills. I got an A- in that Marxist professor's English class. I didn't give a shit about the course and still did better than the rest of the class- who also didn't give a shit.

R44...Not that I owe you any explanation but since you seem to be a very low information person, let me ‘splain to you. Yes film production can be hard to get into ...which is why I cold called every production coordinator in the LA 411 (look it up) asking for PA jobs until I got one. It also helped that I interned for Propaganda Films so. I was able to name drop. I’m a quick study and therefore found myself very busy after a couple of months of knocking on doors.

And really ...you clearly know nothing of advertising, so you should shut up. I’ve worked with more than a few creative directors who never even went to college. I worked at BBH (look it up) and both my bosses had no degree. What I didn’t mention was that I did go to Ad House to build up my portfolio.

And as for why I would take my current job....the high-end freelance days are on the wane. Advertising agencies are in crisis and just don’t have lavish freelance budgets anymore due to clients doing away with retainers. There was a time when you could freelance at BBDO or Ogilvy for a couple years straight, making 1200 a day on an IBM or ExxonMobill. Not anymore. Additionally, I work for a subsidiary of Amazon now and my stock units will increase exponentially, making up for loss of salary. Given the pandemic and the fact that most of my advertising friends are jobless, I’m quite happy I went client-side. The hours are also less brutal, and they reimburse tuition so I can finish my degree, as mentioned and eventually move on. One more thing you clearly don’t know that I’ll happily explain to you: many creative directors will take a job in the client-side trenches after spending years and years of 80 hour work weeks. It’s quite common.

Remember when the pointless bitchery was clever and funny?

[quote] I don't know why you almost sound angry over it seems like that's your own insecurity.

[quote] since you seem to be a very low information person

This is just lazy insults.

I have a BA and a law degree, but my partner dropped out of college after 2 years. He was unfocused and ready to bust out of his mid-size hometown where he was attending college. So he moved to a bigger city and after lengthy stints waiting tables and then writing for and selling ads for a gay newspaper, he found his way into the HIV prevention world. 15 years later, he makes over $100,000 as a program director at a major AIDS organization. He’s a published author of academic articles and enough of a quotable authority that a google search of his name nets dozens of professional hits. He’s also very passionate about his work. We’re both 54 and that’s a lot more than I can say. But I do make ore than twice what he does, which allows us to live considerably larger than we would if I made a salary similar to his.

"This is just lazy insults."

See, if you had finished college you would've known to write "These are just lazy insults."

Aside from when an education is needed (medical school, for example) it seems to be a business at this point. The original intent of higher education has been hijacked by for profits, leaving the intent at the side of the road.

[quote] See, if you had finished college you would've known to write "These are just lazy insults."

Actually, no, because the "this" referred to the pointless bitchery.

R56

"College is more than just learning a specific subject matter. In fact most of what you learn has nothing to do with what you study."

Absolute horseshit. The diploma itself worthless, so we're supposed to pretend we're having our minds expanded just by physically being on the campus.

You certainly get taught lots of etiquette and manners at liberal arts schools- how to attend banquets, work functions, write e-mails and letters, chit-chat politely with people of various backgrounds. You could learn all that as an intern- or at a school which openly bills itself as a finishing school.

Diversity, by the way, is only an illusion at colleges. Unless you think a rainbow of cookie-cutter doctor's and lawyer's kids from the suburbs is diverse.

[quote] Diversity, by the way, is only an illusion at colleges. Unless you think a rainbow of cookie-cutter doctor's and lawyer's kids from the suburbs is diverse.

This is so stupid it hurts.

No, never finished college, predominantly because I never had focus nor encouragement (from parents or teachers). I believe that was not out of their neglect per se, but more that I was just "never a problem," and everyone just presumed I was "okay." I was personable, if I am allowed to say that, and I either talked (some would say bullshitted) my way into a job or I knew someone who recommended me. I don't believe I'd have accomplished as much if it were today, and I'm not sure you can still do this today... Here's how it went: I was an Executive Secretary to the owner of a large public opinion research firm but not making a great salary, so I started waiting tables for extra money... and within 2 years I moved up to assistant manager and eventually minority part-owner (I was given stock as "sweat equity"). I then started doing a talk radio show about food, thanks to a friend from college, which led me to writing for a local start-up magazine (still in biz), which led me to being hired as a full time journeyman at the local major daily newspaper (very rare, since I had no college degree). From there, I was hired as the editor of a Las Vegas magazine (with $18M in annual ad sales), but after 4 years I came back to become biz partners with an old friend in a nightclub where we hosted national acts in a stunning, award-winning venue (with money from an investor who loved live music). There were other things along the way, such as consulting, and eventually I moved/drifted into social media, which is where I am now. It's taken me awhile to figure this out: that I am a generalist, not a specialist. I say that, because I always felt "unloved" and unaccepted, probably because I never loved myself. Now, thankfully, I'm beyond that and have learned to accept how grateful I am that I didn't have any expectations or goals thrust upon me (I left home at 18 and never looked back)... I was free to explore the world, and discover myself. It just took me awhile to figure that out. Not sure if that same "fluidity" is possible today, but I sure hope so. Thanks for listening.

R68 Can't respond, so you won't respond. Too beneath you to think a little.

R69 You've had a fascinating life, you have the lind of success they're talking about when they emphasize networking to students now. Unfortunately, I think your career would be impossible today because of the emphasis put on Bachelor's degrees. It's seen as making the job market more fair but honestly ends up stifling talent. The jobs often don't go to people who have the skill and drive to do them.

You really think this is what you will find at a college?

[quote] Unless you think a rainbow of cookie-cutter doctor's and lawyer's kids from the suburbs is diverse.

I mean, how much evidence do you need to show that isn't true? Or how can you logically come to the conclusion that all the students are doctor's and lawyer's children? It's a mind-blowingly stupid proposition.

I was there, and that's how it was.

Cheesecake factory loving, Zara shopping, Nike wearing suburbanites whose Grandmas wore ethnic clothing to graduation. Including the WASPS, whose grandmas wore dress hats.

R71 I completely agree... While they would ask about college, I never lied about not obtaining a degree. I was truthfully able to put down that I had four years of college, which I did, but I left off the part that I was on a five year track. LOL. The hardest one to get was the newspaper job. I seriously doubt that would ever happen today, although it was all that long ago. I believe I was hired in 1996. Perhaps my point is that you can sometimes find work in areas where a college degree isn't essential: the restaurant biz, music production, social media, theater and the arts in general -- i.e. places where talent, drive, passion and enthusiasm truly does mean more than having a degree. Let the discussion continue!

Didn't finish college, make a measly $60,000 per year with an annual 3% bump. Not great but better, I hear, than a lot of college grads.

R75 Liberal Arts grads for sure. If you don't go on to grad school or go into STEM, you're at best a teacher or administrator.

My sister didn’t go to college, she didn’t even graduate from high school. In high school she was sent to a continuation school which is where they send troublemaking students which my sister certainly was and then she dropped out of that school . She started working as a secretary/administrative assistant at a importer of computer parts company and then worked her way up and making up to West Coast sales director In charge of the entire sales force west of the Mississippi river having sales team in every state there of. And mind you this is a totally male oriented business, so it hasn’t been easy for her to oversee middle-age men who’ve never had a woman manage them.. Most of her pay is commission based but she rarely if ever makes less than $150,000 a year.

Meanwhile, I did go to college and got a liberal arts BA and had some success in the entertainment marketing industry but with the recent cut back’s and and shrinking departments I am currently not working and I’ve never come close to making $150,000 per year.

What's wrong with being a teacher, [R76]?

I earned a BA from a liberal arts college. Some say it was no preparation for a job beyond flipping burgers, but that's not true. I graduated able to speak three languages fluently, and able to play several musical instruments -And those skills have gotten me jobs and amazing travel opportunities. I've toured with performing groups, taught theatre in Europe, worked as an interpreter at international sporting events, and had writing published in two languages. Somehow, I don't think my life would have been richer and more fulfilling if I'd gotten an MBA in account management...

Education is what you make of it. So is talent, for that matter.

R78 A year of tuition at most liberal arts colleges costs about what a teacher makes in a single year, often more (my former school costs more.) Becoming a teacher after four years of liberal arts school is a terrible return on investment, regardless of how many scholarships or fellowships they give you.

Congratulations on being enlightened and self-fulfilled.

Hey -Thanks for calling me enlightened, [R79]. You're clearly not from the south, are you. Otherwise you would have said, "Bless your heart."

Yes, teaching is woefully underpaid -But that's no reason to put down the people who do it.

How on earth are you an engineer living in poverty r13? You did something very wrong.

All my friends with engineering degrees were able to find nice careers.

"Yes, teaching is woefully underpaid -But that's no reason to put down the people who do it."

Except in blue cities/states where they have powerful unions that make sure they are paid well and have a pension and healthcare.

Wouldn’t the list be longer for those who went to college & now in poverty?

R80 Not to trace back multiple comments, but I was answering R75 originally, who makes $60,000 a year and wondered if that wasn't more than most college grads. It is, at least for people my age. Most liberal arts grads go on to be employees, not management, in office environments or into teaching. There are people who go on to grad school who achieve the type of earnings that all of the students were told they had to go to college to achieve.

You're an exception to that rule, and it seems you had lots of extracurricular development outside of school what with all your concert touring and language fluency. That costs top dollar- language classes are literature classes so you must have traveled to learn to actually speak $$$$$

As for "Bless your heart," born in the South, never lived anywhere else. I don't feel the need to pepper my writing with folksy horseshit to prove a point. Fat church ladies don't even say that too often.

[quote]The diploma itself worthless, so we're supposed to pretend we're having our minds expanded just by physically being on the campus. You certainly get taught lots of etiquette and manners at liberal arts schools

Wow, what fantasy world do you live in where college is all about etiquette? What you get from attending college when you are still young is the first expose to other people and other ideas outside your background. Yes, you can find that on the internet if you wanted but most people don't reach outside their comfort zone or extreme echo chamber. College forces you to confront that on a daily basis for a few years of your life. Your view of the world is much more open minded as you enter true adulthood. Why do you think most Trumpeters also happen to lack a college degree?

I completed 2 years of college and had to leave to go to work. I'm now a Senior VP at a bank making over $400K a year. I've been there for for 25 years and worked my ass off to work my way up. But I still wish I was able to get my degree. It's a psychological thing with me I guess. I was lucky. The young college graduates I hire now at my bank can't even wipe their asses. I'm in NYC.

R39, I love research and I’m pretty good at it - hook me up with a job please?

[quote] I've been there for for 25 years

Does it occur to you and others telling us about their decades long careers that the job market may have changed?

R81 slight exaggeration for dramatic effect

however, I live in a HCOL city, and relative to the I bankers and such, I don't make a lot.

without saying too much, I work in a research group as opposed to industry. I'd probably be making double what I am now if I'd stayed in industry and stayed on a managemet track type of deal

[quote]The young college graduates I hire now at my bank can't even wipe their asses. I'm in NYC.

So do you hire non college grads in your rich bank Sir?

[quote] however, I live in a HCOL city, and relative to the I bankers and such, I don't make a lot. "slight exaggeration for dramatic effect"

You think? Anyone comparing them self to what bankers make is going to look poor. You sound like first world problems Joe.

Many DLers refuse to accept the world is not the same as it was 30 years ago r88.

Why I managed fine without a degree....when Golden Girls was still on the air.

rich hot bankers are my constant companions, R91, so naturally that's my only reference frame

I used the word "poverty" riffing off the word used by the OP

god I have to explain everything to you people

I wonder how many of these college drop out Bootstrapers who "worked really hard" to get to the top are hiring people without college degree in their own company. And by that I don't mean unpaid interns who are in high school doing grunt work. I mean actual full time professional positions. With ZERO qualifiers that they must get one in the future?

My gut says a lot of these types tend to be the rich Log Cabin Republican Trumpeters.

So we are all supposed to know about your slutty past with rich bankers R93? That's special.

Even the most menial office job at my company requires a college degree r84. I don't think we are unusual, it tends to be base assumption these days that you have one.

Sorry, didn't mean to refer to you r84

I didn't finish either R75. Make $85K with 15% bonus per year.

What I will never forget is a guy who was in the same hiring class as myself had an MBA. We both, 8 years later, have positions in the same pay grade. He was a little quicker to get there (by about 1.5 years) but still.

That was a lot of money to piss away on an MBA when I (and another person in our hiring "class") have equivalent positions.

I'm not knocking a degree. It absolutely makes it easier to get your foot in the door. After that though, no one gives a shit.

I had a partner who died in 1986 from AIDS. When we met he said he was a graduate of MIT and had a MBA from Yale. He had a well paid job at Wells Fargo bank. After he diedIi met his sister and she told me he had never been to college. He managed to get the job he did by lying. I thought it was strange that no one ever checked in HR.

At one point I actually did consider lying more about my education on my resume but never did.

Executive assistants can definitely make in the 80k-100k range r36 if you are somewhere there is real business.

Oh Lord R100. The median household income in the US is around $62K. HOUSEHOLD income.

I'm sure there are some executive assistants making that much in NYC and San Francisco, but then you have the outrageous cost of living to go with that.

It is amazing to me how so many on this board are out of touch with the reality of every day Americans in regard to money. I chalk it up to the NYC "focus" of many posters, but most of you have no idea how much money the average person makes.

College is never a "waste" unless you spend all your years at college doing nothing but drinking, drugging, screwing and partying. But there are those who that's exactly what the college experience should be: drinking, drugging, screwing and partying.

Drinking, drugging and screwing was about the only thing I learned to do in college.

Did you not see the "somewhere there is real business" part r101? I recognize that an executive assistant in Omaha isn't going to make that much.

But I was explaining to r36 that yes, many people do make that salary doing that job. You are correct that it is in areas with a high cost of living.

R36, a secretary with the title "Executive Assistant" in a Fortune 500 can easily make $80,000.

Warren Buffett would beg to disagree R104 about the "real business" comment.

oh shut the fuck up R101

The median salary in Honduras, or Haiti, or pick a hundred other places in the world, is a fraction of what it is in the US. and thus I am constantly amazed by the focus on the US on this board! What is all this shit-faced whining about your low salaries here? move to Myanmar, then we can talk about how bad you have it

I'm sorry R107. Is there a Honduran or Haitian section of DL I missed that discusses these issues in Spanish or French? Please post a link so I can troll the executive assistants there who make $12K a year and yet have a cost of living that is 1/4 that of the US.

R101: "It is amazing to me how so many on this board are out of touch with the reality of every day Americans in regard to money."

it is amazing to me how out of touch you are with the reality of the every day citizens of the world, your fellow man living in dire poverty in some problematic hut

probly because you live in a provincial backwater of the midwest with little exposure to anyone who isn't inbred and toothless

[quote]I'm not knocking a degree. It absolutely makes it easier to get your foot in the door. After that though, no one gives a shit.

Not in my line of work. It's pretty common for a lot of companies to require a professional degree to justify the pay grade even if you have had several jobs. It's actually rare that a company "doesn't give a shit" about a degree and just hires based on skill. In a perfect world, I agree it shouldn't matter but trust me, most HR and corporate type places want to have a reason for hiring someone off the street if something goes south with that employee. They can point to the fact that they were qualified for the job based on established institutions. Yes, it's just cover your ass, but that's what corporations do.

R109 sounds just as out of touch as R101 points him out to be. The narcissist city-centrist attitudes of NYC queens is mind boggling. Not everyone else outside of NYC is a toothless backwater Dear. Rent a car, and drive across country to California. That is if you know how to drive.

I only have an Associates degree, but not having student loan debt has given me much more buying power than friends who are up their eyeballs in debt.

oh man. so it's NYC queens --> the rest of the country to "drive across"--> and then California? you sound pretty out of touch yourself, R112

I had to pay my way through, which was grueling, so I never had the "college experience" of socializing and dating. That sucked, and I still feel like I lost something fundamental emotionally. But I did it. I thought about dropping out at points, but I would have lost too much self-respect.

I hate that I haven't gotten my master's, but at 42, that ship has sailed — it would be tons of debt and very little, if any, return on investment. It's sort of shameful because my dad got his. But he was a teacher, and it qualified him for a higher salary and better pension.

California is the last stop before you hit the water dipshit R113. Get a map.

[quote]I hate that I haven't gotten my master's, but at 42, that ship has sailed

That's still very young if you want to go back to school and get one. You probably have another 20 years of work life left. It might not change your bottom line but it might bring piece of mind. There is more to life than just money. Iv seen lots of people go back to school for a 2nd and even 3rd degree.

"Piece of mind" r116? Masters degrees cost money, unless there is a career incentive to get one he should NOT take on that financial burden.

I never received an advanced degree.

[quote]I make my living as a secretary making $84,000 a year.

Me making 84K as a secretary:

the point is that you were unable to come up with anything of interest to drive to besides nyc and California, you fucking retard

people in the Midwest really are slow and witless

^^ for R115 in case he couldn't tell

R85 Hahaha, Oh Lord Almighty! My sides!

How ancient are you?

College is where you go to escape the riff-raff and commune with people of your own station. Diversity is skin deep. You're expected to shut up and conform.

Oh for fucks sake, anyone saying "my sides" is pushing 70. Stop trying to pretend you know what's going on Gramps. Shut up and conform is a old world ideology as well. Now go change your diapers.

my sides

Only 2 years of college. I live off of my multi-million dollar trust fund.

Me. I’m a middle-aged woman and am comfortable. Although I could have been much wealthier.

I suspect it’s different for someone like me, a woman with white privilege and a certain appearance.

R126 Nice humblebrag.

r127 that wasnt a humblebrag. more like a blunt assessment about oneself and situation in life.

I too, am beauty-privileged.

Why is everyone here so pissy? If you went to college, they ridicule you. If you didn't go, they ridicule you. If you make a decent living you are either humble bragging or wallowing in privilege. Is you plead poverty you are brainless and worthless.

Yes, some people make a lot more money than others. Some are born to it. Some work hard for it. Some have it unfairly withheld or stolen from them. Not fair -But achieving some success in your life doesn't make you an evil oppressor. You want justice? Take the fight someplace meaningful. Pissing on people on Datalounge isn't going to change the world.

So basically those implants really paid off R126.

Did 2 years at Berkeley, got into a deep depression and quit. Worked retail jobs until I was 35, then got into the film business as a makeup artist for 20 years. Last year was my best year, made $195,000, and the aggregate world box office sales of my films puts me in the top 30 in the world. My Dragon Tiger Mother still thinks I'm a failure despite this. So fuck you, Mother- I did this without the benefit of a college degree, a wealthy husband (which my mother, aunt and sister have), as a minority woman, family connections and nepotism.

Watch it, 132. People here will accuse of lying - because you can only get into the film business if you have "connections".

(and congrats on your success).

I have three degrees and now, at 39 years old, work an entry level office job where I'm making 90-110 outbound phone calls a day.

So when it comes to college, your mileage may vary.

AKA don't pick a useless major.

Thanks r133, For what it's worth, I pretty much worked for free for the first year, made poverty level the next two years, almost quit the biz, then did a film with a director who is super loyal and became extremely successful. So in a way, my success is a connection.

Also, I realized my last sentence structure was all wonky.

[quote]Where once a BA was the holy grail, now you have to have at least an MA to get a foot in the door.

Honey, this is complete horseshit.

No offense, R61, but I don't believe you either.

The bile on this thread appears to be coming from a couple of insecure college professors and an insecure film school grad.

Our sister, Sue Simmons graduated from Julia Richman High School in 1961. She retired in 2012 after 32 years as an anchor at WNBC-4 earning $5 million a year.

Unless you're in a field like medicine, law, or academia you can be successful without a college degree. Proving you can do a job, your bosses are thriled to have you and you can go on to the other companies with your skills.

[R136], Try getting a teaching job in a coastal California school district without one... honey.

No I live in fancy house.

I have a college degree but I live in squalor; does that count?

How well-rounded and self-fulfilled are you? Have you been to Europe?

Don't hate me because I'm beautiful..

r144- This is the makeup artist, yeah, several times. Asia and South America too. I love travelling.

Celebrity high school drop outs (actually some didn't even get that far)

Johnny Depp

Cameron Diaz

Tom Cruise

John Travolta

Charlize Theron

Quentin Tarantino

Charlie Sheen

Nicole Kidman

Robert Downey Jr.

Kate Winslet

Marilyn Monroe

Cher

Demi Moore

Joaquin Phoenix

River Phoenix

Al Pacino

Daniel Radcliffe

Jude Law

Robert De Niro

Billy Joel

Russell Crowe

Ryan Gosling

Colin Farrell

Roseanne Barr

Kurt Cobain

George Michael

Boy George

Courtney Love

Michael J. Fox

Whoopi Goldberg

Michelle Williams

Nicholas Cage

Marlon Brando

Kristen Stewart

Lindsay Lohan

Richard Pryor

Keanu Reeves

Steven Tyler

Prince

Princess Diana

Yes, [R147] -That's the ticket to stardom! Drop out of school as soon as possible and the movie offers will come pouring in.

[quote]as a makeup artist for 20 years. Last year was my best year, made $195,000

Holly fuck, makeup artist make that much money?

The only advanced learning I had was how to take two BBCs at once while R Kelly pissed on me.

Still, I got me a Georgia mansion and an elegant New York townhouse ...........

I don't think a make up artist for films should correlate their success with the box office revenue of the films they've worked on.

Do make up artist get a cut of a films success? I thought they were hourly or union. There's way too much money in that field. In what other profession could you make that kind of cash with that minimal of skill? It doesn't sound like he is making movie prop aesthetics or anything that complicated.

The average salary of a Makeup Artist is only 31,500 per year. That guy is full of shit or he has some kind of in with something not legit.

I'm a janitor for a Fortune 500 company!

Makeup artist here. There are people in film/tv who earn more money than I do- Ryan Murphy's gal-Eryn & her husband, the people in the Star Wars, Marvel and Star Trek Franchises, Quentin's gal-Heba, who also does a lot of Marvel films now. People like Rick Baker, Kazu, Ve Neill, Howard Berger who do all of the makeups, including spfx, so they get a ton of prep (can be up to 8 months!). A lot of personals to actors make more money too. In print/press- the top people make waaaay more money than we do, given their crazy day rates of $1000-$10,000 day and teaching seminars. I'm lucky to have 2 actresses who hire me for press, so I get the $750-$1500 day for that.

How do we make so much money? I've negotiated my day rate on my last film to $67/hour (I've seen $90/hr for personals), but then I work 80 hours a week, so I get massive overtime-1.5x/hr after 12, 2x after 14. Then I tend to work out of town, which then production has to gives us per diem $75/day, and living expenses should we choose to get our own lodging at $125/day. I also get a kit rental of $200/day as a Department Head (although I've seen $1000/day for the people on the last seasons of "Desperate Housewives" because no one wanted to work with them. All of this is considered "income", and jobs last around 4 months for me . For the big films, jobs can be 4-9 months.

The crap thing about working in television is that 1st season will be an hourly , but successive seasons can be on a weekly contract, which only give you overtime after 60 hours. The sneaky thing about it is that you could have an 18 hour day, then work 8 hours a day for the rest of the week, and you would not get overtime pay for that 18 hour day because the whole week totaled under 60 hours. Ryan Murphy shows regularly have 90 hour weeks, 6 day weeks.

R153, that link is probably for Makeup Artists who do bridal and small print jobs, not in the film/press industry.

Now with the Coronavirus protocols, they're trying to limit our days to 10 hour days, so I expect to lose probably 1/2 of my income, unless they extend the shooting schedule days.

Oh and to answer the union question- yes I am, and no we do not a backend. However Cinematographers and Directors (which includes Assistant Directors) are in unions and get backend because they're above the line.

*do not have a backend*

Also makeup artists in other countries do not make as much as we do here in the U.S.- when I worked in London and Bucharest, Britain has a 10 hour/day law (the whole crew has to vote if they want to work more hours), and Bucharest....well it's Romania, no one makes money there.

Oh and I forgot- everyone that I listed, including me are all Department Heads. 2nds & 3rds will make substantially less, with dayplayers at the bottom. One of my friends dayplays (working only for a day on background or cast that has small parts) and told me that he made $58,000 last year.

I always wondered, what's the point in getting a degree?

"I always wondered, what's the point in getting a degree?"

It's always a good thing to be educated.

R158 Ma'am, ma'am, Imma need you to put down that Red Bull please, ma'am.

Seriously, though, it was off-topic but very interesting to read. Didn't know about the labor set up of makeup crews for film sets and that's the first I've heard about how the shutdown is affecting film production. That's terrible about your loss of income, that's such a rough situation to have to go through.

My friend Mary

Thank you r161, I haven't worked since mid January. Although I do get a great unemployment of $4200/month, which ends in July.

A common thread I've noticed with the non-college graduates here is that we all work in creative trades that we sort of fell into, and worked our way up apprenticeship-style.

I know in the fine-dining world, at least, chefs prefer line cooks who've worked their way up over culinary school graduates. Preferably you would be both, execs usually work for 5+ years before going to school, if they go at all.

Culinary grads have a reputation for absenteeism and laziness, and chefs usually won't hire them unless they've worked for a few years or they have a solid recommendation.

They do usually get paid more- $1 an hour on top of the going rate for the position usually- but they're not likely to get hired. The last chef I worked for straight up refused to hire culinary graduates and even refused to let anyone stage or do their externship at our place.

[quote]It's always a good thing to be educated.

"Education" encompasses a wide variety of possibilities. Sitting on one's fat ass listening to some joker drone on is but one possibility.

[quote]Many DLers refuse to accept the world is not the same as it was 30 years ago [R88].

Mary, thirty years ago was 1990, not 1920. Every job in the Help Wanted required a Bachelor's Degree, just like today. You don't in fact have it so much harder than people in the 90s, regardless of what you tell yourself.

[quote]The narcissist city-centrist attitudes of NYC queens is mind boggling.

GIVE. IT. A. REST. MARY!!!

[quote] Who keeps trying to perpetuate this myth that no college degree leads to poverty?

Oh dear.

"Education" encompasses a wide variety of possibilities. Sitting on one's fat ass listening to some joker drone on is but one possibility."

Spoken like a true high school drop out.

Thanks for the breakdown R155. I always wondered how the pay scale thing worked in film. I am not a makeup person or anything like that but I have briefly worked on one projects for a studio that built sets. It was nearly impossible to find out what people were making on average or how it was broken down without being in a union. They must have laughed at how cheap I was to work for them.

Didn't go, wish I had, but I've always managed to work in well paying meaningful jobs and am living a good life. I do recommend it though for young people, it will make things somewhat easier and you'll be smarter too

r36 - I graduated from college in the 70s and ended up spending my life working as a legal secretary. $84,000 a year is quite common in large law firms and I know many who made that or more. May base salary was 6 figures for the last 4 years and I just retired. Plus there was tons of overtime because of the nature of my particular job. The benefits were incredible - health, dental, lots of vacation and sick time, profit sharing, bonuses and 401(k) match. I never had to pay health insurance premiums until just recently and even then my premiums were very small. Was is a satisfying job? Nope. I was a horrible job in terms of satisfaction. But I didn't base my self worth on my job. It was merely a method to pay for the things I wanted to do. Also, I never was out of work and I made very good money. I could write a book about being a gay, male secretary for 40+ years -- the workplace has changed very little. Sexism, ageism, racism and homophobia are all very much alive and well in 2020. The worst being age discrimination.

University provided me an escape from the small town midwest mindset I grew up with. My degree was in history and I went and got another degree in accounting. The accounting degree did nothing for me personally -- the degree in history was more valuable to me in terms of personal growth. Granted the cost was miniscule back in the 70s. My first year of college cost $1,500 for room/board and tuition. And it was possible to make that much money during summer break. That is not possible today. Because of the cost factor, I question going into debt for a liberal arts degree.

My husband and I both have Associate Degrees from community colleges, and we both now have six-figure salary jobs. It took lucky breaks and one-in-a-career opportunities at work (which required some real sacrifices) to reach a level that others with higher degrees could have achieved while sleep walking through their jobs. You can still achieve without a degree, but you have to work harder, sacrifice more, and be luckier to make it happen.

r168, what is "oh, dear" about what they wrong?

[quote]AKA don't pick a useless major.

What are majors worth taking?

I am a dropout of both a competitive science HS in NYC and college.

I have made a middle class life for myself working as a graphic artist, and have a paid off house in Brooklyn, some savings and a modest 401K, and no debt of any kind, and I’m in my mid 50s.

I did this without financial help from anyone.

I enjoy casually mentioning that I am a high school dropout, because whatever anyone may think of me, it’s not that.

You can graduate from college and be an idiot, and you can drop out and be intelligent. School is no guarantee of anything.

r164, I think you're on to something there. Maybe creative types keep their creativity and passion that way and succeed. Too much education (unless it's something like Architecture) maybe stifles or "sets" creative pathways and creates expectations.

"What are majors worth taking?"

Medicine. Business. Engineering. Those are the ones that come immediately to mind.

[quote]Lawyer here, but neither college nor law school were significantly helpful in the actual practice of law. Those degrees are just the price of admission to do something that anyone can do.

This is one of the most baffling posts I've ever read. It's like saying that medical school doesn't help in the practice of medicine. I'm a lawyer and there's no way that someone who hasn't gone to law school could practice law.

[quote]Maybe creative types keep their creativity and passion that way and succeed. Too much education (unless it's something like Architecture) maybe stifles or "sets" creative pathways and creates expectation

There is truth to that. Most artists like Animators, 3D renders, Graphic Designers, etc don't go beyond a 4 year degree unless they want to become a teacher. Those fields higher mainly on your portfolio not your degree, there is no grandfathering you in like other professions. However, being on both sides of that equation, it's very very rare that someone has an outstanding portfolio who didn't get some training somewhere. Raw talent is different from refined skill. Hundreds of years ago artist would study under other Masters for years before they would even think about doing their own artwork.

Conversely, there are some really shitty schools that are For-Profit that turn our really shitty artists. Most are not higherable. Those schools don't really ask for a portfolio or talent to get in, all you need it to qualify for a loan. Everyone gets accepted. Then to no one's surprise they suck as artist because you cant train someone to be an artist without some level of innate talent. I remember this one girl on Youtube years ago who went to The Art Institute chain and when she got out not only could she not get a job, her portfolio was a joke and she had straight "A"s. Then she literally turned to stripping to pay off her 80,000 student loan.

R180 I think the issue with culinary schools, at least, is that the techniques they teach are very out-of-date and they teach a lot of gastronomy which isn't applicable in a commercial environment.

They don't prepare their students for how much tedious manual labor working in even the most high-concept kitchen actually is. If they were responsible they'd require work experience as part of their qualification process, but they're fleecing young adults who've watched too much of the Food Channel and dream of being CHEFS- not line cooks.

So they graduate with an attitude and a lot of culinary opinions and an inflated sense of their own worth, can't get a job, and when they finally do have to be taught from scratch how to make basic sauces and ingredients because the techniques they learned predate electric appliances.

That’s interesting r179. And I don’t doubt you at all. But attorneys are one of the professions that constantly pops up as a possible casualty to the AI invasion. Along with accountants and engineers surprisingly.

I am not a chef R181 but I worked at a school with a culinary department so I did glean some insight to what was going on. I think they taught them how to make sauces and all the fancy stuff because none of there were there with the intent of being a line cook in the first place. You dont need to go to school for that. In Los Angels most line cooks are minimum wage paid guys from Mexico. Real chefs cost more and restaurateurs are cheap. The only exception is if a famous chef owned his own restaurant.

So knowing that to just be the reality, I believe they basically told the kids that when they graduate, they needed to leave the state to some flyoverstan that needed chefs and get their work experience that way. Then if they wanted they could move back to the big city and try to open of their own place. None of them went to school just to be a line cook. I think it was a 35,000 for 2 years, cant remember.

You should have started a poll OP

I never finished it. I have no degrees but I’ve worked in the financial sector for the past decade and all is well with me financially.

I wonder how many of these "successful" people who didn't need a degree lied about not having one to get their first job? You could get away with that 30 years ago but now it's easy to check if you are HR.

R183 Never, ever, not even in Flyoverstan, would someone straight out of culinary school with no work experience be hired as a chef.

Did you know any graduates who did actually did that? The ones who were serious probably found line cook jobs to start in.

I offended by the "middle aged Mexican guys" commrnt. I work with those guys. They're often very talented and passionate. It takes skill and commitment to be hired in Fine Dining. I don't work at Chili's.

I fart

I want to be friends with R4

[quote]I offended by the "middle aged Mexican guys" commrnt. I work with those guys. They're often very talented and passionate. It takes skill and commitment to be hired in Fine Dining. I don't work at Chili's.

I never said they were bad, I said they work for CHEAP! So since most restructure are cheap ass holes themselves, they didn't want to hire some kid from culinary school expecting to make 60,000 a year when they could hire a hard working line cook for half that price and would never complain and crank out just as good food quality.

I had some college after high school but just wanted a job which I worked at for 15 years. Then I was laid off when the company was closing down. They gave a good severance package and I went back to college and was able to get a BS in Finance. I was able to get the degree in 2 1/2 years. I then got a good job in the finance industry only to get laid off after 5 years. I was then able to get a job working for my state and have been there for 15 years. I just wish I never went back to college and wasted those 2 1/2 years and 5 years at that job. I could have had over 20 years working for the government.

Has anyone considered that an IQ over 130 puts you in a category where success is likely to follow?

So many of the "good" degrees mean a lot less than people think.

There as been a glut of lawyers for decades, so unless you went to a top school, getting work is hard.

MBA is the new basket weaving. If you can make connections, great---but you learn little that you would not learn on the job.

Mathematics...there is no work. It sounds stable, but this is an undergrad degree that will only help if you go on to grad school and then work in academia.

I received several academic scholarships, but wanted to "enjoy my youth" and put off college until I was in my late 20's.

I'm an RN and pretty content with my thousand-aire mundane existence 😀

No college degree, and no I don't live in poverty. I live in 8,000 square feet thanks to sales and banking. I really do hate sales though. I wish I had an MBA so I could just sit back and coast on $100K/year. There's no sitting back in sales.

R46 what field are you in? Are you hiring?

Besides the formal education you get in college, it’s also an experience that you can’t otherwise duplicate. It’s a different kind of education,

In college, you learn how to learn.

Never finished because I hated it. I ended up working as a buyer for several department stores over the years. I enjoyed the work. My income has always been augmented by a couple of family trusts, but if I had to have lived only on my salary as a buyer, I would have still have been comfortable, but I was single. If I'd had a family to support, finances would probably have been tight, however.

cooking is a useless degree. Unless your family is in the resto biz and you're gonna take over one day or something...otherwise, it's a waste of time and money. There is no money in this line either...many immigrants are working for pennies in this field.

can someone suggest jobs that can't be replaced by robots? My nephew and nieces are just starting high school...I will see them at Xmas (hopefully) and they may ask me for advice.

R200, I have advised my nieces and nephews to take Spanish in High School. It actually has practical use in the real (American) world. I mean, more so than other languages. This applies whether your kin become Subway sandwich makers, or Primary Care Physicians. My youngest nephew took Latin, which may be helpful, but less so than Spanish, I think. And just forget about French. I wish I spoke Spanish.

Non-robot jobs include things that must take place in your home, like carpenter, plumber, electrician, car mechanic. Tradesmen, if they are smart, can open up their own business. Think about jobs that require a physical presence,,

Computer related jobs are fluky. They pay well, but a lot of them can be done in Bangalore. I expect the ability to offshore jobs will only become better over time.

I know a friend who graduated NYU with a psychology degree. She ended up driving for lyft and uber...I think she's now working as a court reporter ( which you don't need a degree for).

R196, R197 quoting straight from the brochure!

You forgot exposure to uncomfortable ideas and learning to respect people from diverse backgrounds.

Just my experience: I have a reasonably well-paying career in a scientific field. This position, based on federal standards, can only be filled by people with a certain number of life science college credits. I wouldn’t have this particular career if I didn’t have a degree.

r146 I believe that Farrell and Jude Law at least did their O-levels, which is the UK version of a HS diploma. They didn't complete schooling towards A-levels, which are the exams needed to enter college/uni in the UK.

Farrell attended Drama School in Dublin which would at least require some O-levels, I believe.

[quote] and learning to respect people from diverse backgrounds

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Yes, that'll do it. The UK and the USA are proof positive.

Anecdotal stories are wonderful to read about, but when looking the statistics, those without college degrees do earn far less than those with, and the pay gap is widening.

I see this everyday with my patients in the Hudson Valley, which is really a "rust belt" area, bereft of decent-paying blue collar jobs.

There is a story about a poor woman who was hired to be the receptionist at Lotus Corporation back in the ‘80s. I don’t think she had any college. Lotus was a startup then, and was short on cash, so they paid her partially in stock. She was a kind of hippy and didn’t care. Lotus soon after became hot, having invented the popular computer spreadsheet software program at the time, called “123”. In the ‘90s, she became a multimillionaire due to the stock. That was before Microsoft ate their lunch by inventing “excel” and their internet explorer, and they were eventually sold to IBM.

I think Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg both quit Harvard before graduation, but that seemed to work out for them.

In college you learn to drink, get high, and screw!