Is mental abuse really worse than physical abuse?

Well, I frequently hear the opposite. The dominant narrative in American society is that sex abuse is the worst, and then physical and lastly mental abuse. It's a bit of a taboo to suggest otherwise. But years of experience have led me to suspect that the recovery from mental abuse and bullying is much lower than acknowledged while recovery from (some but not all) types of physical and sex abuse is higher than believed. But it's a complicated conversation and much of it depends on the details.

Given that one of the most damaging things to the human, a primordially social tribal animal, is exile or isolation one would think that neglect or rejection or emotional unavailability would do the most damage.

My father is emotionally distant and rejecting though as far as I know or remember he has never laid a finger on me. His dismissal of me still hurts into my adulthood and I often wonder if it has affected my delayed development. By contrast his own father (my grandfather) used to drunkenly beat his brothers (my uncle) and mother (my grandmother) but still maintained close open emotional ties, and even still they no longer speak either. It’s a sad thing to inherit.

My ex-husband was both physically and psychologically abusive...There were times I'd ask him to just hit me and shut up.

I'm sorry r3

They all seem to affect people forever. Personally I preferred being ignored - was grateful even.

People who were sexually abused seem to be deeply disturbed in some weird way - intimacy, excessive defensiveness, addiction - and seems to leak into their whole,life. The physically abused seem to just become abusive themselves. Mental abuse is too broad and vague to have a consistent resulting impact.

Since I don't think you can have physical abuse without accompanying mental abuse, I don't think it's possible to answer this question

A person just doesn't commit long-term physical abuse unless they are deeply fucked-up, and given to imposing their fuckery on other people. I mean, you can have mental abuse without physical abuse, but IMHO you don't get physical abuse without mental abuse.

Mental abuse

I’ve minimized the emotional and sexual abuse of my childhood because I knew others in the world had it much worse- taking beatings.

I don’t know anymore, the older I get.

You can’t live in the past, but you can’t pretend it doesn’t exist, either.

Well you can, but then you’re likely a mess.

My partner was sexually abused from 3 to about 7. I suspect several of other of his siblings were. To this day, he can't really talk about it. But one of the things I admire about him his that somehow, completely on his own, he figured out a way to move on from it. He's very handsome and it's amazing to me he didn't end up a dead porn star. But some people can get past it, although the scars are deep and the very fabric of his life was changed.

I’ve come to believe the whole “dealing with it” as treatment is a myth. Like having a parent die young or having a serious illness in youth, it’s part of who you are. You can be aware of it but I no longer believe you “move on”. You learn to not focus on it and try to minimize the negative behavior and thought patterns it may have caused.- but it’s part of who you are.

R2, I, too, have family members who are emotionally distant to the extreme. I have one sibling who is not emotionally distant; she has a really bad temper and can be violent, though.

Just this week I had an confrontation with one of my siblings, who I was doing a favor for. I was emailing him, asking him questions so that I could do a better job. It was like pulling teeth. It suddenly hit me that I didn't want to do this any more. I told him to ask our other sibling to help him.

My mom had a physically abusive father and a mentally abusive mother. My mom said she preferred the physical abuse.

R10, I think you’re correct. It’s about compartmentilzing it. Putting in a deep place and getting on with things. His beauty helped, I think, but he also had a moral compass and living saving and good decisions.

It was about four or five years before I even knew any of it. He had gotten violent with me.

It's sort of hard to imagine a relationship that's physically abusive but not mentally abusive. How is beating the shit out of someone on a regular basis not mental torture, as well?

So I think the deal isn't so much that mental abuse is worse, but that mental abuse on its own, in the absence of any physical violence, can be just as bad as a relationship that involves both kinds of abuse.

R10 is absolutely correct. You can't make the past go away, to matter how well or badly you do in the rest of your life, it's always part of who you are. In my case, it's no longer the most important part, not any more. I consider that to be a huge personal life win.

One thing I will point out - now that I'm getting old and it's all decades past... the thing that matters most wasn't the physical or sexual abuse, it's the fact that nobody cared enough about me to find out about it or stop it. I've always thought that did more damage than the abuse meted out by one person, the fact that none of the adults in my life ever talked to me about why I was such a mess, or tried to help. I just wasn't valued.

"Do you think, though, that mental abuse is really "worse" for the victim than physical abuse? I've heard this canard a lot. "

I would have told that canard to shut up.

Meanwhile, you're comparing different kinds of abuse trying to find the worse one?

What do you win?

[quote] [T]he thing that matters most wasn't the physical or sexual abuse, it's the fact that nobody cared enough about me to find out about it or stop it. I've always thought that did more damage than the abuse meted out by one person, the fact that none of the adults in my life ever talked to me about why I was such a mess, or tried to help. I just wasn't valued.

R14, I agree. I briefly worked in law enforcement with sexual assault cases. I remember a few cases that involved little girls (under 10) and Moms' boyfriends (as perpetrators). One or more of the moms seemed like untreated sexual assault victims. The moms initially supported their daughters but then took the BFs' side. (I am pretty sure that this pattern is common.)

IMO, I think the little girls (victims) could have moved past the sexual assaults. It was the betrayals by their moms that were the nails in the coffin. It's hard to move past that betrayal.

I have absolutely seen r16's dynamic play out in abusive families generally (not just sexual abuse).

I've met a fairly decent number of women who really, truly do not understand what healthy father-daughter relationships look like (and relationships generally). Or perhaps they were in deep denial about the abuse. I've known some women in physically abusive relationships who just kind of accepted the abuse and tried to minimize the damage and shield it from their kids.

Years ago I was friends with a woman in a physically abusive marriage. Perhaps because she saw a gay man as non-threatening, she confided in me a lot about the abuse. Well, at some point something clicked and she regretted her candor and completely cut me off, and in the process went a little nuts. I told her if she ever needed anything, despite our falling out, to call me. And she basically screamed that her marriage was fine and that her husband had never hit her (despite a DV conviction and documented injuries). I think it was then I understood the power of traumatic bonding

My mother was a homophobe till the day she died. My father used to sneer You failed! when I was in grammar school. I failed a lot.

Physical abuse made me take care of myself, my health and fitness and even peace of mind. It could have gone a different way.

Emotional and psychological abuse made me ("made me" feels imprecise though) prefer my own company and be hyperaware of the first signs of abuse such as teasing or disregarding a stated boundary.

There is no physical abuse without emotional abuse, though, so there's no separating the two.

What good can possibly come of an explanation of who has it worse, people who are battered or raped versus people who are dehumanized but not?

I don’t see any point to that discussion at all. All it does is to suggest that one person’s misery is less significant than the other’s. Which is sick.

If you’ve been emotionally abused and are haunted by it, I cannot recommend ayahuasca enough. No antidepressant can do what it can do, and while 10 years of therapy may have a similar benefit, it will not be as enriching or enlightening. I say this at the risk of ridicule here in the interest of giving people who need help a tip that could transform their lives. I’m speaking from my own experience.

Anyway, abuse is abuse. Harm is harm. We don’t need to diminish one person’s experience by saying it’s less traumatic than another’s. If you were stabbed in the back while jogging, you’ll live with fear and panic forever. If you were berated and insulted and diminished for years by someone you live with, you’ll live with feelings of worthlessness and panic forever. It is entirely unnecessary to contrast the two for the sake of saying one of these is worse. Come on. Don’t do that to people who need help and love.

I’d take physical abuse any day over mental abuse. Physical tends to be an explosion in a moment, BOOM knock you to the ground over something or slaps you hard, throws something at you and they’re done. Mental abusers tend to create an environment where you’re always on edge that really fucks you up. They are intertwined somewhat, but I had one mentally abusive parent and one physically abusive parent... and the mental is much harder to overcome.

In my opinion... We don’t speak about mental abuse as much because it’s the preferred abuse method of women.

It seems all types of abuse have a mental component. I was raised when kids got spanked, and I did, but not even close to physical trauma was ever inflicted. My heart breaks for any child who was abused in any way. The breach of trust by someone who is supposed to care for you is devastating in and of itself.

I’m so sorry for those here who were abused.

r6 years ago I read a study about men who batter their wives/girlfriends. It revealed something interesting: there are two "sub-types" of abusive men, those whose heart rates increase when they are committing abuse, and those whose heart rates decrease (abuse seems to calm them down, essentially).

The first group is more common. They are more likely to have witnessed domestic abuse in childhood; they become excessively attached to their partners and are the stalkers post-breakup (a la OJ Simpson). The second group contains more sociopaths who tend to strike out of the blue, rather than getting increasingly angry. They aren't really attached to their partners and don't pursue them post-breakup (because they move on quickly to a new victim). They also tend to be more violent.

I don't know how this maps onto child abuse, but I found it an interesting way to think about men who batter their partners.

[quote] Since I don't think you can have physical abuse without accompanying mental abuse, I don't think it's possible to answer this question

Exactly. I've heard people say mental abuse is worse than physical, because a bruised body can heal faster than a scarred mind, blah blah blah. I've heard Christians use this to justify how the Bible allows divorce in cases of adultery but not domestic violence. It makes no sense, because if a family member/partner physically attacks you, you'll probably be mentally scarred by the experience as well.

OP, I had a father who was exactly as you described, and even though he has been gone for over a decade, it is the mental abuse that occasionally will resonate in my head, not the physical abuse which was rare but severe. I'm not sure what kind of family unit he came up in even though I knew my grandparents. They were not really all that demonstrative but showed affection in a way that makes no sense decades later. My mother rarely speaks of him in loving ways even though they were married for over 50 years and seemingly content with each other. It is obvious to me that my father was happier after my brothers and sisters and I were all gone, and then he doted on her, so in a way, that gives him some atonement, if not much. My siblings and I rarely ever mention him in conversation, as if he didn't exist, as if to say the patterns of discipline and mental instability from his side of the family have pretty much been wiped out even though we share his last name. When I have been abused (mentally or physically) in relationships, the memories of him have come back, and I cower like a scared child, only defending myself when I had really had enough. Knowing that I possibly share his temper, I will walk out before an argument escalates to extreme anger then resume the conversation when I have calmed down. It seems to work on most cases, but not all.

As someone that has suffered mental, sexual, and physically abuse, along with knowing others that have -- I agree with posters against making it some contest. There's so many factors, including the type of individual being abused, I don't get the point. It's especially gross to rank sexual abuse as the lowest form of abuse.

Other people here nailed it about other abuses coming with mental abuse. You can not separate them -- it's not like physical or sexual abusers just do their thing and nothing else 🙄

I think you can make a case against mental abuse without throwing other abuse victims under a bus. I feel like that is where this whole "mental abuse is worse" comes from -- wanting to feel mental abuse is legit, but it is, so that's not the way to go about it.

I've also noticed a pattern in my own extended family. The two cousins I have (one male, one female, on different sides of the family) who were emotionally/physically abused in childhood would never admit it. And they share a certain temperament: extremely loyal, even to their detriment, naive, easily manipulated, traditional in their attitudes toward family. I'm not sure they have even admitted to themselves they were abused (they are both in their late 50s now). The woman has been in several destructive relationships over the years, but no matter how she is treated, she will defend her shitty partners to the bitter end.

On the other hand, I'm a cynic, non-traditional, and unwilling to be loyal under all circumstances (although I generally consider myself a loyal person). I tend to cut off shitty people and throw up walls.

I wonder how much people's reactions to childhood abuse in adulthood is based on temperament.

I think when you isolate the abuse type mental is worse, because there is usually some gaslighting factor “Am I crazy?” going on which drives people nuts, were a drunk physical abuser can be written off as such when you finally deal with things.

People who suffered mental abuse just want it acknowledged. You should be able to make a case against someone for mental and have them arrested, if you have to record them or whatever.

r28 I think the worst form of mental abuse is when the abuser stays calm and at the same time works up the other person. Thus, the abuser looks completely rational, and the abused looks crazy/hysterical. It's very cruel and damaging and leads the victim to feel that they're the "problem" -- and outsiders as well may have this impression

[R20]: Unfortunately, Ayahuasca isn’t something you can get over the counter at Walgreens. And even if it were, it’s not something that can be experienced without a mentor to guide you through it. From what I’ve read, you even have to get through much vomiting and diarrhea, before any benefits materialize. So, caveat emptor if you please.

As for mental abuse, there’s another element here that no one seems to have mentioned, and that’s sexual abuse of males by other males, often relatives, or trusted mentors. As soon as I got sober, now over 34 years ago, I was aware of this, and did a lot of therapy on it.

The best book on the subject is, “Victims No Longer,” by Mike Lew, which especially deals with our society’s willful choice to ignore it. Experience of it is still regarded as a stigma. But, as is said in the play, “The Inheritance:” “Heal or Burn.”

Interestingly, after working on all this, I realized it was my mother’s physical and mental abuse that has had the most lasting effect. Nevertheless, as an ongoing sober gay man, I know that, though these issues never disappear, it’s up to me to choose how they affect me, one day at a time.

I am the chooser of my feelings, no one else.

I think mental abuse withoit physical or sexual abuse isn't so much worse as it can be more insidious and harder to pinpoint, and as R30 says it can make the victim look or feel like the crazy one. Narcissists are very good at looking like saints to others, while making those close to them miserable. It can take years for someone to actually realize that it's not them, and that they're not crazy/overeacting to the constant digs, put downs and mind games. At least with a punch it's instantly recognisable as abuse even if the victim chooses to stay.

OP, my guess is your abused friend's spouse somehow found that she'd been confiding with you and scared her into ending your friendship. You were a good friend to her though, but sometimes people just aren't ready to be helped.

Thanks r33. I suspect that's what happened. I also think she realized she confided "too much" and was embarrassed by it. Plus, I think victims in those situations have a lot of anger about the abuse that they can't unleash on the abuser and so they strike out at others in their vicinity -- it's safer

What was interesting is that if you ran into this couple socially, you would never imagine there was domestic violence in the marriage. She appeared every bit as assertive as him and they had a nice, seemingly innocuous public banter. Just as one can't identify an abusive man by looking at him or dissecting how he acts in public, abused women don't have a "script" they recite from

ANY abuse, when untreated, can create a whole set of problems for a person beyond the initial pain.

The snake oil salesmen driven society deliberately created this rule that you have to bottle up and push down your mental pain so that it can fester and makes you a mental headcase who is easy prey for the snake oil salesmen of this world.

And, thank God, that stigma about expressing your emotions, showing vulnerability and facing / dealing with your emotional baggage making you inferior, weak, a drama queen is on its way out. People can finally share with others the stuff that hurt them in the past and bothers them in the present potentially setting new boundaries.

My two cents is that psychological abuse is extremely difficult because the child or young adult being abused has no evidence to point to. If some parent wants to bully you or undermine you, there are many ways that they can do it without leaving a mark and still make themselves look completely sane and normal in the eyes of everybody else in the family. And the minute you speak up about it and try to tell people that your parent is deliberately frightening you and tearing you down, everybody just spins their head around indignantly and demands to know what you're talking about because they've "been nothing but nice and a great parent and you shouldn't speak about your father or mother that way!"

When someone beats you, there are bruises and cuts and those can't be as easily ignored. Obviously, most abused children hide them to protect their parents and/or out of fear. But when the day comes where they know they have to get help, all it takes is a bruise or a cut have people take your story seriously. Emotional and psychological abuse cannot be quantified or photographed.

And when the parents possess charm and charisma and everybody in the family is a member of their peer group, aunts and uncles and family friends who grew up with them or respect them because they are all the same age, nobody will believe the child who says "this parent terrifies me, please help, I don't know what to do, you won't believe what they said to me..."

It's especially scary when as an adult, you start to understand that your parents have told your relatives stories about you but you don't know exactly what they said, just that your relatives think of you as ungrateful or spoiled or nuts and you don't even have the opportunity to talk with them to find out at what point their opinion of you changed so drastically.

And you can't have anybody stand up for you on your behalf over psychological abuse. Nobody's going to arrest your parent because they make you upset with what they say or what they do. Either they're beating you into a bloody pulp and raping you.....or everything is fine.

It's extremely terrifying being beaten by the adult meant to protect you as a little kid. It's a primordial fucking up. It is mental abuse, because it destroys your attachment and most basic sense of safety. I have a lot of jealousy and resentment of people with good parents, haha. The words are destructive too; destroy your sense of self. But you can build yourself up if you're strong.

The truth is, we can all get over these things and we have to. As soon as I physically got away from my abusive parent, I was free. As soon as I realized I didn't have to pick up the phone or respond to a batshit email, I was free. And it's the greatest feeling. My freedom. My safety.

[quote]I have a lot of jealousy and resentment of people with good parents,

Me too, r37. Me too.

A lot of adults underestimate the ramifications of a kid feeling betrayed by authority figures like their parents, priests, school teachers, friends, etc.

A lot of adults excuse their sociopath tendencies by being wronged traumatically in the past which means that they rather hold on to their issues instead of dealing, and resolving, them. Why is this world such a shithole right now? People with unresolved (childhood?) issues (expressing themselves in individual ways) lashing out.

“From what I’ve read, you even have to get through much vomiting and diarrhea, before any benefits materialize. So, caveat emptor if you please.“

R31 Yes, certainly, no one should (or could, really) experience ayahuasca without researching it and understanding what it is and the process through which a person will go. It requires observing a special diet and abstaining from certain medications and foods prior to taking it. It is nothing at all like a prescription medication; it’s a psyche intervention. It can be terrifying and traumatic, as well. One of its names among indigenous people is “la purga,” or the purge, because it does cause vomiting or diarrhea in almost everyone, but also because it is an extraordinary emotional purge and—at least in the viewpoints of curanderos who administer it—spiritual/soul purges. In my experience, all of these are true. And although the physical purging is uncomfortable and frankly disgusting, it comes on shortly after drinking ayahuasca, and then it ceases and leaves you feeling cleansed. I don’t think most people who have taken it would consider the vomiting and diarrhea to be close to the most memorable or significant aspects of the experience, which is saying something. Once you have a transcendent spiritual experience, vomit just seems like really small potatoes.

I am a criminal defense attorney. I use to be a public defender. I agree with the idea that one form of abuse is worst than the others. I have found that in most abuse cases mental, physical, and sexual abuse has occurred as a trio. A great many people don't think about it in that way but when you are sexually abused you are also physically and mentally abuse. A great many of my clients, both male and female-most people would be shocked to hear how many men are sexually abused-, suffered mental abuse not by the abuser but by the screwed up thoughts that the abuser's actions created. And for a child who is being sexually abused there is often an attachment to the abuser that abuser doesn't share. And it makes the child feel abandoned and rejected. Children also feel unrescued by other family members, especially when those family member know what is going on, and either ignore it, or defend the abuser. A child's mind is a blank piece of paper and abuse marks it up. So I agree that you can never get over it. My happiest clients were the ones that just moved on. First from addiction, and then to a hopefully better life. I find that for some wounded clients they can only do that if the abuser is dead.

I had a sex abuse case once were the victim keep saying " I wish you were dead" from the stand over and over and over again to my client. The judge overruled every objection I made about that, and let the jury hear it. My client was convicted and placed in jail for 80 years.

OP's question is somewhat rhetorical, but a good question for discussion. No one is saying: "His pain is not as bad as my pain." We're just describing, comparing, and contrasting here.

Thanks r42

Speaking from experience, mental abuse feels worse.

Imagine if your mother tells you this every day of your life from the time you are a baby: I hate you. I wish you were never born. You are a burden. You ruined my life. You are a worthless piece of garbage and will never amount to anything. No one will ever love you because you don't deserve it, etc. Let me tell you, these words hurt me more than the shouting, punching and her other sadistic whims. You can mentally check out from the physical pain when your head is being slammed into the wall, but you can't escape words. They worm their way into your head and stay there forever. Trust me, when you are contemplating suicide at the age of 7, before you can even comprehend what suicide means, it's not because of the punches.

R44, I remember similar words and I am so sorry that this is your experience too.

The experience made me comfortable or at least dispassionate hearing all sorts of fucked up things, about me especially. I can be so detached from any compliment--not just criticism--because my experience hearing someone describe me started as verbal abuse. You protect against insults but compliments don't get through the armor either.

There is zero utility to rank the different kinds of abuse, OP.

It's interesting, r44 / r45. I didn't recognize how verbally abusive my father was until my brother (eight years younger than me) got to be around age 6 or 7. I used to hear my dad berate him and I realized how awful it was, and I realized I'd been treated that way all my life and hadn't realized it.

r46 please see r42, who is more articulate than me.

That’s horrible @R17.

Yes, r48. This was over ten years ago, but I think they're still married. (I since moved away and lost touch with that circle.)

As I said elsewhere, the marriage didn't "seem" abusive on the surface. But I realized how traumatically bonded she was to him when she became hysterical trying to defend him and screaming he'd never been physically abusive (weeks after she'd texted me scared he was going to hit her). And it wasn't just physical. He liked to mind fuck her; he'd threaten to leave her and she'd absolutely freak out. She was utterly dependent on him, emotionally. I think he enjoyed scaring her and recognized how powerful a method of control it was.

I think men like this get off on the control; it gives them a rush to know they have almost total power over another human being, that they can treat someone like garbage and she'll come back every time.

R45 very interesting observation about the compliments. I never realized I react like this when someone compliments me. I feel like a fraud, because they can't possibly mean all those nice things about me. I had to will myself into being a person with a high self-esteem. I have fooled others, but not myself, it seems.

R50, how did you "will yourself into being a person with a high self-esteem"? TIA!

R45, I agree. When you block insults, you also end up blocking compliments. Actually, I concluded that's a good thing (for me). Ultimately, it's my own opinion that matters.

Yes, I will take constructive criticism and, yes, a compliment does feel good. But those compliments can be few and far between and I would rather be self-validating.

R51 I didn't really have a choice. I had to build armor around myself and present to the world as a confident person who has their act together. It's pure survival mode. When people describe me, they use words like confident, secure, assertive, funny, go-getter, full of life. They don't know that it's a mask. Deep down I'm insecure, lonely and depressed.

I was recently talking to an ex and he said: "I wish I had your options. You probably have men falling at your feet. You could date whoever you wanted". I was shocked, because all I'm thinking is "Why would anyone want ME? I'm ugly and worthless". It takes a lot of mental work to see myself the way others see me. On a good day I actually believe I have a high self-esteem. I only wish it hadn't taken me this long to realize this. So, as you see, physical scars have long faded, but emotional scars are very hard to get rid of.

R44 / R52, thanks for answering my question. I hope your outward self-esteem is not all smoke and mirrors. I hope you have lots of "good days"!

Hard to understand biological parents who berate their children. Your children came from you, right? (Same DNA, same nature / nurture.) It seems so self-hating.

My maternal grandpa, when I was little, said something insulting to me that I still remember. I don't understand how you can be so mean to a child.

People tend to be serially abused, in different situations, by different people. It's not something you ever get over because it keeps happening.

R54 It's a pattern of abuse. If you learned as a child to "accept" abuse from your family, you will later accept it from your partner, your boss, your friends, etc. until you break that cycle.

[quote] In my opinion... We don’t speak about mental abuse as much because it’s the preferred abuse method of women.

Yes, I'm sure you do think that. Too bad men have never shied away from blaming women for all their stupid problems. Back to the drawing board, Freud.

R55 how does one break the cycle? Particularly if years of therapy proves ineffectual and too expensive to continue accessing?

To use my case as an example; I have long kept attracting insidious, bipolar, exploitative liars as bosses, colleagues and friends because my father is that way. I also have had trouble keeping friends or staying anywhere long enough to build a life or a trusted intimate social circle because I was bullied at school and sheltered at home. I live as a total loner now, and all my life have never dared to date anyone because I recognise and fear that my patterns will almost certainly bring in an abuser that I may not escape. Except for one sibling I am close friends with (probably overreliant on, honestly) my family are almost entirely estranged, and I don’t like or fully trust either of my parents even though we seem superficially to have a great and entirely functional relationship (similar to situations other posters have mentioned upthread). Growing up I was one of those high-achieving but kind socially-delayed kids who got totally ignored and lost in the bureaucracy of middle-class life, then burnt out and dropped out in my twenties much to the confusion and disappointment of everyone.

‘Baggage Reclaim’ online course and similar literature hasn’t worked for me, but I acknowledge the good it has done many other people (I’ll link it below). Support groups are an option, I’m aware, but I live in the sticks plus have a tendency to take on other people’s problems so it could easily make things worse. Is there anything else I can possibly do? Feels like I have to live alone forever, sometimes.

My heart goes out to everyone here who has suffered abuse to any degree. We are all testament to the power of human courage, empathy, resilience and strength in the faces of pure evil.

R57 I broke the cycle of abuse, when I hit rock bottom, which is different for everyone. I grew up with an abusive and sadistic mother. The rest of the family knew about her tendencies, but didn't care enough to help me. I grew up believing I deserved it, so I carried it over into other relationships in my life. My friends used me, men cheated on me, colleagues made cruel comments. I let it all slide. I made myself convenient and never said no. I let people abuse me because I didn't know any different. I never talked about it with anyone. I wish I could. But I still carry so much shame about being physically and mentally abused, I can't even imagine telling a therapist about it. By the way, I don't drink, smoke or do drugs. My coping mechanism is bottling all my emotions deep inside and pretending I'm fine. Probably, not the best way to go about it, but that's how I survived.

My rock bottom moment came when I realized I had no real connections with anyone. No cared about me. No one checked up on me unless they needed something from me. I made a conscious effort to cut every user and abuser out of my life and start fresh. Now whenever anyone tries to use me or hurt me in any way, I stand up for myself. Saying no to someone for the first time felt like walking out naked into the street. I felt vulnerable. Now it feels exhilarating!

If you have someone to talk to, not necessarily a therapist, do that. Just to hear a different perspective. Also try to read books on psychology and early child development. They will help you identify your issues and where they stem from. Keep a journal and write down the things that resonate for you and then write down how you feel. Be brutally honest with yourself! But the most important step is to cut off all contact with the abusers in your life. Do not put up with any abuse just because you feel lonely. Don't lend money or give a ride to that "friend" who didn't even wish you happy birthday. Get out there and meet new people. Start making new friends based on common interests. Pursue things that make you feel powerful and accomplished. This will help with self-confidence. Sign up for courses and workshops. Don't expect immediate results though. It won't be an easy road, but I hope you find your mental strength and inner peace.

Does it matte? This is like debating death by fire ants or drowning or suffocation.

I probably phrased the OP poorly but I appreciate how the conversation has developed r59

As a parent, it's painful for me to read these stories of bad, indeed pathological parenting. These people should never have reproduced.

Here's how to break the cycle.: 1) take personal responsibility i.e., don't visit your disappointments and failings on others; 2) go to therapy and do the hard work; 3) release attachments, which as the Buddha said are the cause of pain; 4) don't expect people to treat you well, as most are more damaged than you are and will never realize it; 5) be kind and treat others how you want to be treated; 6) don't have kids - just because you can doesn't mean you should

[quote]don't expect people to treat you well, as most are more damaged than you are and will never realize it

This is very wise, r62.

I'm going to try to implement it

Very good suggestions, R62. Philip Larkin got it right.

r34 here ... was thinking about this particular situation, and what bothered me about it most of all was how many people in their social were fully aware of the abuse and remained friends with the husband, including women. Who would want to hang out with a guy if you knew he was beating his wife? I lost a little of my faith in humanity after that.

This made me understand the #metoo movement to some degree. Despite what we see in the movies, domestic abusers really aren't shunned all that much by society.