Hello and thank you for being a DL contributor. We are changing the login scheme for contributors for simpler login and to better support using multiple devices. Please click here to update your account with a username and password.

Hello. Some features on this site require registration. Please click here to register for free.

Hello and thank you for registering. Please complete the process by verifying your email address. If you can't find the email you can resend it here.

Hello. Some features on this site require a subscription. Please click here to get full access and no ads for $1.99 or less per month.

Defund the Police Movement

[quote] The alternative is not more money for police training programs, hardware or oversight. It is to dramatically shrink their function. We must demand that local politicians develop non-police solutions to the problems poor people face. We must invest in housing, employment and healthcare in ways that directly target the problems of public safety. Instead of criminalizing homelessness, we need publicly financed supportive housing; instead of gang units, we need community-based anti-violence programs, trauma services and jobs for young people; instead of school police we need more counselors, after-school programs, and restorative justice programs.

by Anonymousreply 257June 11, 2020 4:15 AM

𝑨𝒃𝒔𝒐𝒍𝒖𝒕𝒆𝒍𝒚 defund the police

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 1June 3, 2020 7:56 AM

The question needs more study, OP.

by Anonymousreply 2June 3, 2020 8:06 AM

We certainly need to stop them from sharing in the civil forfeiture booty.

In some states, this is really abusive. You get stopped for routine traffic violation. They find you have $2,000 cash, which is "suspicious," and they seize it as suspected proceeds from criminal activity. In some states, you need NOT be found guilty of any criminal offense for the State to keep the money.

by Anonymousreply 3June 3, 2020 1:49 PM

Police Unions are too powerful, corrupt and racist. Often the unions vigorously shield white officers from punishment for misconduct, while they let black officers take all the hits. Government cannot reform police when the union wields all the power.

by Anonymousreply 4June 3, 2020 2:27 PM

First you would have to provide every citizen with a machine gun and a lifetime supply of ammunition so they can fend for themselves.

by Anonymousreply 5June 3, 2020 2:46 PM

We already do that, R5. It's half the reason we're in the situation we're in. The problem isn't that we need [italic]more[/italic] guns, but nice try.

by Anonymousreply 6June 3, 2020 2:49 PM

There are a couple of memes and comments floating around that seem to fall into two categories:

1) Police are outfit comparable to military units while medical/educational/social services professionals don't have nearly enough equipment

2) Any attempt to reduce funding results in work slowdowns or strikes by bratty officers and unions

Defunding is not the same as eliminating. It's more along the lines of right-sizing the budgets for a more equitable balance of quality of life vs. fear.

by Anonymousreply 7June 3, 2020 2:58 PM

R6 We already have social programs. Why not have both? The problem with them isn't due to lack of funding but mismanagement. The police are already vastly outnumbered in places with high crime. If anything, they need more resources.

by Anonymousreply 8June 3, 2020 2:59 PM

[Quote] The police are already vastly outnumbered in places with high crime.

That is absolutely fair.

It is a legitimate question for Los Angeles. But Minneapolis which does not have high crime does not need to spend a third of their budget on policing.

by Anonymousreply 9June 3, 2020 3:06 PM

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

We've been "supporting the police" for decades. They don't get better. They don't learn anything about how to do their jobs. They just keep getting more and more violent, ratcheting up the tactics, the tools, and the anxiety and fear of what they'll do next.

Maybe, just maybe, we should try a different approach. In the immortal words of Dotard, what do we have to lose? Indiscriminate killing of black and brown people? Violence perpetrated in the name of the people? Oppression on a scale that we've never seen?

The answer isn't more money for police, R8. We've tried that to the point that the police are indistinguishable from the anarchists they supposedly protect us from. And don't be [italic]that idiot[/italic] that tries to tell us "we already have social programs" when you know damn well that we've cut social programs to the bone and have handed the money to police departments to buy tanks, machine guns, grenade launchers and every other weapon of war... Because having violent thugs armed to the teeth roaming our streets behind a badge is [italic]so much better[/italic] than feeding, clothing and educating children.

by Anonymousreply 10June 3, 2020 3:07 PM

[quote]The police are already vastly outnumbered in places with high crime.

Like the White House?

by Anonymousreply 11June 3, 2020 3:12 PM

I used to work with the jailed inmate population providing them with mental health care. Criminality, substance abuse, and mental illness are inextricably linked. Almost all of these inmates were homeless because not even their families wanted anything to do with them. They could be given all the help and resources available and chance after chance but if they refuse treatment, there’s really nothing else to do. That is when they wind up in jail. In jail they get clean while awaiting trial or release, and they get sober. The social workers set them up with rehab programs and housing when they get released.

What ends up happening is we used to see these homeless, mentally ill/ drug addicts back in jail time after time because they’re back on the streets. Why? Public housing for the homeless adhere to certain safety standards. If you agree to live in the housing then you agree to not do illegal shit like use or sell drugs, and you can’t be high or behave violently against other residents. Three strikes and you get kicked out onto the streets again. I remember one inmate had a rap sheet so long and was kicked out of so many programs that every time he got released he’d tell us “see you next time”. One time he did end up staying in jail for quite a long time while awaiting trial for attempted murder and armed robbery of an innocent bystander on the street in broad daylight.

But no, you can’t be that stupid enough to believe all we need to do is to give homeless population housing and social services. It’s much more complex than that, a large number of them are severely mentally ill and/ or drug addicts. These individuals need to be institutionalized for treatment or even longterm if they don’t get better. I’m talking about the severe cases and there are a lot of them. Shit, the stories I could tell about them.....insane.

by Anonymousreply 12June 3, 2020 3:12 PM

The Black community needs to take responsibility for its dysfunction, hatreds and failures and cease blaming everyone else for its misfortune.

by Anonymousreply 13June 3, 2020 3:13 PM

I would like to see the defunding of private, for-profit jails and prisons. Part of the problem is the development of para-military like police departments and over-aggressive policing.

But the other side is putting far too many people in prison for offenses that would get probation in most other countries. The war on drugs started all of this.

The amount of money we spend on incarceration could easily be spent into programs that will do more societal good than just subhuman punishment.

No sentencing laws have limited drug use in this country the past 40 years. The amount of money we spend investigating and prosecuting is insane.

by Anonymousreply 14June 3, 2020 3:15 PM

For the type of job that police do, they don't get paid nearly enough.

by Anonymousreply 15June 3, 2020 3:15 PM

Spoken like a deplorable white supremacist, R13. Bravo! You win the Donald J. Trump award for obfuscation!

by Anonymousreply 16June 3, 2020 3:16 PM

R16 aptly proves the point!

by Anonymousreply 17June 3, 2020 3:17 PM

People the world over do far, far more difficult jobs.. all without the protection of a corrupt union, without hazzard pay, overtime, retirements after a fraction of the time one is awarded in industry, not to mention all of the perqs, benefits and awards they get for... killing people.

by Anonymousreply 18June 3, 2020 3:19 PM

Interesting comment, R13. Please provide an article or two supporting your assertion that "they" don't.

Furthermore, can you offer a schematic outlining just how much work individuals are actually responsible for? For example, my friend's child is half black and half Jewish; does that make her only half responsible? What about Neil Patrick Harris, who is white but lives in Harlem--is there a residency tax or something? Do the Kardashians get a discount for their 'ho services to the NBA?

Please be specific. Show your work.

by Anonymousreply 19June 3, 2020 3:24 PM

It's going to be like the 70s again. Crime everywhere. Then another "tough on crime" surge. Over and over, a cycle.

by Anonymousreply 20June 3, 2020 3:25 PM

I think they need education. In my country the police education is a long and grueling one. It's very hard to pass, only a fraction do. Being a police officer here is actually prestigious. It's a very good education because they learn how to diffuse situations, how to tackle them, how to talk to people instead of using bullets. The police in my country doesn't even use guns.

by Anonymousreply 21June 3, 2020 3:33 PM

R21 Not to excuse scummy cops who maim and kill needlessly, but police work here in the US is very different from other civilized countries. Citizens here carry both legal and illegal firearms and the US is just a more violent country, period.

We should require college education for police recruits. It’s just another layer of protection from authoritarian dumbfucks of all races who are by nature drawn to police work. As part of their professional development all cops should engage in community endeavors with local citizens. Police work is highly stressful because of the unpredictability factor. They deal with not just criminals but mentally ill people or seemingly normal people who just fucking snap. Sometimes situations can turn from neutral to dangerous in a matter of seconds. Criminals are also more violent and crazy, it seems that way anyways.

I do have experience working in the ER (briefly) and in the jail system, with both officers and inmates. Definitely I think a lot of the inmates wouldn’t be into doing criminal shit had they had decent childhoods. I’d say about 75% of the inmates I’d treated as mental health patients came from broken homes/ abuse or neglect backgrounds. That or mental health and substance abuse ran in their families. A lot of PTSD in some of these young men. It wasn’t rare for me to have young inmates in their early 20s break down crying when I get them to open up during my initial mental health assessment. The levels of abuse, neglect, parental drug use, etc...are no joke. You wonder to yourself if you had those childhoods how you would turn out. A little empathy is needed IMO. Most people don’t just decide to become criminals. However a large segment of the prison population may be prone to criminality by nature (impulsivity, callousness, etc..), that gets turned on by environmental factors I’d mentioned.

We need to get to these at risk kids and families, intervene before they turn to crime. Also education about birth control should be emphasized. Why are you able to pop out 4-5 kids and all of them in jail or you don’t have custody of any if them? I once treated a female inmate who had 7 kids and all of them with different men and all kids were in foster care. Many of the young 20-something inmates were already fathers and often to multiple kids.

So a lot of what we as a society should be doing is not things after the fact, but in prevention.

by Anonymousreply 22June 3, 2020 5:12 PM

I'm all for prevention but you don't need to defund the police in order to pay for community programs. A lot of non profits are willing to help. These celebrities signing the petition for defunding the police could donate as little as 1% of their earnings and that would make a huge difference but without the risk of putting law abiding citizens in harms way. Administrative waste is also common in education. That's another area you can tackle.

However, these celebs calling for defunding are hopelessly out of touch with the experiences of regular people if they think this is a good idea.

by Anonymousreply 23June 3, 2020 5:53 PM

Strong agreement with R4. I posted the attached paper ("The Role of Police Unions in the 21st Century") on another thread, and it includes the following more-timely-than-ever summary:

[quote]Figure 2. Common categories of problematic police union provisions

[quote]Delays Interrogations of Officers Suspected of Misconduct The contract includes any stipulation that delays office interviews or interrogations after alleged wrongdoing for a set length of time (for example, 2 days or 24 hours).

[quote]Provides Access to Evidence Before Interview The contract provides officers with access to evidence before interviews or interrogations about alleged wrongdoing (for example, complete investigative files or statements from other witnesses).

[quote]Limits Consideration of Disciplinary History The contract mandates the destruction or purging of disciplinary records from personnel files after a set length of time, or limits the consideration of disciplinary records in future employment actions.

[quote] Limits Length of Investigation or Establishes Statute of Limitations The contract prohibits the interrogation, investigation, or punishment of officers on the basis of alleged wrongdoing if too much time has elapsed since its alleged occurrence, or since the initiation of the investigation.

[quote]Limits Anonymous Complaints The contract prohibits supervisors from interrogating, investigating, or disciplining officers on the basis of anonymous civilian complaints.

[quote]Limits Civilian Oversight The contract prohibits civilian groups from acquiring the authority to investigate, discipline, or terminate officers for alleged wrongdoing.

[quote]Permits or Requires Arbitration The contract permits or requires arbitration of disputes related to disciplinary penalties or termination.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 24June 3, 2020 5:56 PM

[quote] Then another "tough on crime" surge.

Tough on crime was an '80s/'90s failure. War on drugs another '80s/'90s abject failure. Together, they provided the [italic]mise an place[/italic] necessary for 9/11, when people started deeply rimming law enforcement ass all the way to the prostate. It set the stage.

by Anonymousreply 25June 3, 2020 6:13 PM

Did the Russians create this movement to drain support away from the Democrats? Because this is the perfect idea to turn all those independents back into Trump voters.

by Anonymousreply 26June 3, 2020 6:22 PM

[quote] I think they need education. In my country the police education is a long and grueling one.

This would cost more money. Defunding makes no sense.

by Anonymousreply 27June 3, 2020 6:23 PM

The Defund movement is one of the smarter things in this wave of protests. If I were going out on protests I might have a sign "Cut Police Retirement Pensions! " Far right ideologues get tongue-tied at this flip.

I think back to the No Child Left Behind movement in education ( a gazillion problems with it, but just making an analogy and pointing to a precedence) - intended to fix "failing public schools." There was a set of metrics - if districts didn't meet them, they were put on "plans of improvement" - of they continued to not meet the metrics, schools were "dissolved, everyone, administrators and teachers fired" and reformed. Usually many of the teachers were hired back, to a restructured school with completely new governance. As I said, in education, there was a lot of problem with this (not the least were those metrics) but why not have a model like this for "underperforming" police departments?

It's our money.

by Anonymousreply 28June 3, 2020 6:24 PM

R26 You would think so but a lot of prominent celebs have already endorsed this. It's real unfortunately.

by Anonymousreply 29June 3, 2020 6:24 PM

[quote] I think they need education.

They need more education, more intensive psych evaluation and vetting, re-training that prioritizes restraint instead of kneejerk shoot-to-kill, and physical fitness requirements -- every time I see one of these lardass slobs, they're sitting down, cruising around in a car, eating, doing nothing. If we're going to pay so much money for them, they can at least look good in a uniform!

by Anonymousreply 30June 3, 2020 6:27 PM

Someone floated the idea that judgements against police brutality should come out of the police's retirement/pension funds rather than the city or state's budget. Part of the problem, the police, good and bad are not getting hit where it hurts. Trust me if some asshole cop was causing your retirement to shrink by 3 million dollars - other cops would police him - code of silence would be out the window.

by Anonymousreply 31June 3, 2020 6:31 PM

Somebody needs to defund the idea that these hall monitors with guns are irreproachable heroes. People don't glorify EMTS, teachers, doctors, water treatment operators, etc. as special everyday heroes. I don't know why or when cops became so sacred.

by Anonymousreply 32June 3, 2020 6:56 PM

R32 You're right. All these Karens and Chads are doing a good enough job.

by Anonymousreply 33June 3, 2020 7:07 PM

R28

How much authority do the feds have though? Public schools receive enough federal funding that the feds can shut them down, but how much federal funding do police departments receive?

Anyway, I don't want to live in a society without police. Such a thing increases the gap between the haves and have-nots since the haves can always hire private security to protect them.

by Anonymousreply 34June 3, 2020 7:13 PM

[quote] Anyway, I don't want to live in a society without police.

Nobody on this thread is saying that society needs no police.

by Anonymousreply 35June 3, 2020 7:18 PM

[quote] All these Karens and Chads are doing a good enough job.

If you're using internet lemming slang like Karen and Chad, chances are that a Google software enginer is more essential to your everyday life than a SWAT cop in riot gear. Just sayin'.

by Anonymousreply 36June 3, 2020 7:21 PM

Some chick on Huffpo said police need to get entirely out of the inner city.. that they could police themselves? UM, OK!

by Anonymousreply 37June 3, 2020 7:24 PM

[quote] The Black community needs to take responsibility for its dysfunction, hatreds and failures and cease blaming everyone else for its misfortune.

Just for reference, which white supremacist manifesto characterizes a calculated campaign of centuries-long systemic and institutional oppression, discrimination, deprivation, brutalization and murder as "misfortune"?

I am updating my book-burning list.

by Anonymousreply 38June 3, 2020 9:56 PM

A certain segment of the left simply wants to make law enforcement too afraid/intimidated to enforce the laws against people of color.

by Anonymousreply 39June 4, 2020 1:31 AM

[quote] instead of school police we need more counselors, after-school programs, and restorative justice programs.

That might help in the long run, but in the meantime I don't see how we can get rid of police in schools as long as students are showing up to class with weapons. A college friend of mine moved to Philadelphia, because his girlfriend had a job there. He was doing some part-time substitute teaching. They assigned him to one school, where the Principal called him the night before and told him that if he had any sort of protective gear including a cup and a bulletproof vest, it would be wise to wear them.

by Anonymousreply 40June 4, 2020 1:49 AM

You know back in ancient history there used to be this element of change called "paradigm shift"... it's more than consultant jargon. A completely different definition of a goal, objective, role, function...

We think of police officers are pseudo military. In a sense we recruit and train officers to serve as an "occupying army" in cities. The veteran pipeline into police departments needs to be broken. In hiring processes candidates get extra points if they've served extra duty. Why couldn't community organizing, or teaching, or working in mental health also get "extra points."

Often those who object to this (and it's been tried to a small degree... "community policing" is what it's often called, and sometimes departments have officers wear blazers, not uniforms... but it's pretty superficial) defenders point out how "dangerous" being a cop is, and how active military service tests ones ability to survive danger. Foresters and fishermen have higher on-the-job mortality rates.

by Anonymousreply 41June 4, 2020 2:20 AM

R41 It isn't just the police, most government civil service jobs give preference to veterans. It is required of all Federal Agencies and most states have passed similar laws. The police seem to get all the low ranking vets, especially ones who have seen combat.

by Anonymousreply 42June 4, 2020 2:32 AM

If they feel unsafe, affluent people/corporations will leave for the suburbs destroying the tax bases of cities. There won't be money to pay the police and there will be mass layoffs of city workers leading to more depopulation. At that point, big cities will become Detroit. But not to worry, many of the folk pushing for defunding cops will be gone by then too. Obviously reform of the police is needed and hiring more social workers is a good idea. But NOT replacing cops with them.

by Anonymousreply 43June 4, 2020 2:42 AM

R43 Part of what has caused the problems is that we have militarized the police, while at the same time expecting them to behave like social workers, with obviously bad results. Especially after the disastrous bipartisan push to close all the mental institutions.

by Anonymousreply 44June 4, 2020 2:47 AM

9-11 is why , R32 . After that all of a sudden police and firemen became demi-gods. And its only gotten worse over the last 2 decades. Cops retiring at 40 with full pensions,then getting rehired while still collecting full pension PLUS top grade pay . The police in my city have been getting hazard pay since the state shutdown . I am not anti police by any means,they are all that is standing between us and chaos ,but Im also not blind to the fact its a seriously fucked up system in place . You all dont want to imagine a country where the police are ineffective , like Venezela or Mexico.

by Anonymousreply 45June 4, 2020 2:53 AM

OP, please.

An overhaul is needed, and it needs to be managed from the outside, with real power.

American police, like R44 said, are bearing the brunt of societal expectations in a no-win situation, and corruption remains persistent and institutionalized.

With apologies to good police who may be reading this, I have never met a clean cop among the men and women I've gotten to know. The depression, violence, bad conditions, and the rest beat them down and turn them, and one has to ask what kind of personality becomes a beat cop today anyway.

Recently a gay cop acquaintance was found to be stealing meth and other drugs from drug arrests, using steroids, going home during shits to have three-ways with a twink, and other things. He was allowed to resign and take his full pension. I mention him being gay because I think we expect better of ourselves, and he spent plenty of time getting into the press for being a good boy in the community. His getting a pension is disgusting. At under 45.

It was always said, especially outside police-family groups, that the same types went into crime or the police force. And the same kinds of power-craven, cynical, superiority-driven, angry and violent people still are there. After all the work.

So change to police. But for shit's sake don't pretend you can defund and drop them. The populace now also is worse than ever, and my neighborhood has been hit by the recent riots (burglaries and property damage, not legitimate protests) enough for me to wonder how bad it would have been without the police force. Meanwhile, a retired police captain was shot to death where he was working as a guard.

Don't simplify how extensive corruption has become with all of us.

by Anonymousreply 46June 4, 2020 3:04 AM

[quote] a calculated campaign of centuries-long systemic and institutional oppression, discrimination, deprivation, brutalization and murder as "misfortune"?

Minorities are discriminated against by the majority regardless of color, ethnicity or belief. That is the nature of the beast of being a minority. That this discrimination is deemed "calculated" is part of the Black community's myriad problems.

by Anonymousreply 47June 4, 2020 3:14 AM

R45 Thanks... back to the original theme of the thread. Police in the overttime charged for the protests are making THOUSANDS of extra dollars. Retiring /coming back as consultants/ pensions at 150% of regular pay/ strength of police unions (they helped elect Trump)/ making 4-5 times as much as teachers in their communities/ unlimited budgets to buy exorbitantly expensive military toys...

We can't afford police. Their pensions alone are breaking cities and counties. Huge unfunded liabilities.... infinitely more serious than the "federal entitlements budget crisis" that "fiscal conservatives" complain about relentlessly.

by Anonymousreply 48June 4, 2020 3:16 AM

As a defense attorney, I cannot think of one cop I know who would not bend the rules, be it looking the other way while another cop does something or outright 'knocking some heads.' The "thin blue line" is tight, and the more honest cops just ignore the less honest ones. It's a sad state we're in right now.

by Anonymousreply 49June 4, 2020 3:28 AM

R48 Most of those problems, along with the protecting of bad officers, are because of Police Unions. I fully support the right of private sector to unionize but the public sector, especially the police, never should have been allowed to.

by Anonymousreply 50June 4, 2020 3:31 AM

R49 Not completely analogous... but in the 80s and 90s teachers became "mandated reporters".... if there was even a whiff of child abuse on their radar that they didn't report, they became legally liable for the abuse, the crime. Teachers and administrators lost their jobs.

This needs to be explored... it's a culture change, hard to accomplish, but we can't simply say "they won't change"....

by Anonymousreply 51June 4, 2020 3:32 AM

R47 I feel like a minority whenever I leave the country, even if the native population looks like me. I would think that a naturalized immigrant would have more in common with that countries culture than me Who may only share distant ancestry. It Doesn’t make sense to me that America, whose culture and language is the envy of the whole world, would be filled with Warring tribes.

by Anonymousreply 52June 4, 2020 3:33 AM

[quote] Foresters and fishermen have higher on-the-job mortality rates.

False equivalency since foresters and fishermen tend to be killed by accidents. Not the deliberate acts of psychopathic criminals, maniacal junkies, and irrational husbands or wives.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 53June 4, 2020 3:51 AM

Yeah, those foresters and fishermen just aren't as dead.

by Anonymousreply 54June 4, 2020 3:53 AM

Often, especially with foresters they die from their own mistakes.

by Anonymousreply 55June 4, 2020 3:55 AM

[quote] Minorities are discriminated against by the majority regardless of color, ethnicity or belief. That is the nature of the beast of being a minority. That this discrimination is deemed "calculated" is part of the Black community's myriad problems.

????? Dear, it is not "deemed" calculated, it IS calculated.

cal·cu·lat·ed /ˈkalkyəˌlādəd/ adjective (of an action) done with full awareness of the likely consequences.

by Anonymousreply 56June 4, 2020 3:57 AM

R55 And police don't? Are you high?

by Anonymousreply 57June 4, 2020 4:02 AM

R57 It isn't the same. Usually, when an Officer dies, it is because they made a mistake that is taken advantage of by another person(criminal). Foresters are killed completely by their own mistakes, such as cutting a tree the wrong way and it crushes them, accidentally cutting through their harness and falling to the ground, etc. The trees don't consciously try to kill them.

by Anonymousreply 58June 4, 2020 4:09 AM

R56 Subjective opinion. Fueled by agenda. But then, you knew that.

The Black community is guilty of the same racist, bigoted behavior for which it condemns others. Hypocrisy is also part of its myriad problems.

by Anonymousreply 59June 4, 2020 4:12 AM

R59, I know you are trolling but...

Gaslighting black people and pretending that racism is non-existent, exaggerated and/or reciprocal is part of the calculated campaign of racism.

400 years of slavery, jim crow, segregation, redlining, KKK, police brutality, etc. -- all supporting a calculated campaign to deprive blacks of freedom, dignity, opportunity, wealth, security and well-being.

We know it, you know it and now you know that we know you know.

by Anonymousreply 60June 4, 2020 6:03 AM

R60 Much as you and other blinkered like you try, the Black experience in America is NOT unique. Jews, South/East Asians, First Nation, Hispanics and women of all races have and remain victims of institutionalized, entrenched majority rule and whim. The on-going attempt to elevate minority community one over the others is insulting and demeaning to ALL victims of majority discrimination.

by Anonymousreply 61June 4, 2020 6:26 AM

^^^ have BEEN and remain ^^^ ^^ elevate one minority community over the ^^^

by Anonymousreply 62June 4, 2020 6:27 AM

[quote]...the Black experience in America is NOT unique.

Diversion is part of the calculated campaign...

Discussion is about police brutality UNIQUELY targeting black people. You swoop in and suggest that somehow black people are to blame. No takers? So you flip to a false equivalency to dismiss and diminish the unique injustice visited upon black people in the U.S. Sorry, no dice.

Now you know that we know you know.

by Anonymousreply 63June 4, 2020 7:19 AM

NEW YORK (AP) - A New York City police officer on an anti-looting patrol was ambushed Wednesday in Brooklyn by a man who walked up behind him and stabbed him in the neck, police said, setting off a struggle in which the assailant was shot and two other officers suffered gunshot injuries to their hands.

The bloodshed happened just before midnight in the hours after an 8 p.m. curfew that was intended to quell days of unrest over the death of George Floyd in Minnesota.

All three injured officers were expected to recover. The man who attacked them was shot multiple times and was hospitalized in critical condition, said Police Commissioner Dermot Shea.

"What we know at this point and time is that it appears to be a completely, cowardly, despicable, unprovoked attack on a defenseless police officer and thank God we aren't planning a funeral right now," Shea said.

He noted that it was one of several attacks on police officers in recent days, including one in which a driver plowed into a police sergeant who was trying to stop looting in the Bronx and a lieutenant who was struck in the helmet by a brick during a brawl with protesters in Manhattan.

Some details of how the attack unfolded were still unclear, but Shea said the man casually approached two officers stationed in the area to prevent looting at around 11:45 a.m. and stabbed one of them.

Officers a short distance away heard gunshots, rushed to the scene and saw the man with a gun in his hand, believed to have been taken from one of the officers, Shea said. The responding officers then opened fire.

The commissioner said 22 shell casings were recovered. He didn't say whether the officers' hand wounds came from the guns of fellow officers.

Shea didn't speculate on the motive of the stabber, who was not identified, but Police Benevolent Association President Patrick Lynch blamed anti-police rhetoric during the protests.

by Anonymousreply 64June 4, 2020 8:20 AM

SUCCESS

Los Angeles to slash up to $150M from LAPD budget, reinvest into communities of color

As protests over police brutality and the death of George Floyd stretched into a sixth day, Los Angeles officials said Wednesday that they will look to cut $100 million to $150 million from the city’s police budget as part of a broader effort to reinvest more dollars into the black community.

In all, Mayor Eric Garcetti pledged that the city would “identify $250 million in cuts so we can invest in jobs, in health, in education and in healing,” especially in the city’s black community “as well as communities of color and women and people who have been left behind.”

Those cuts, he said, would be “to every department, including the Police Department, because we all have to be part of this solution together. We all have to step up and say, ‘What can we sacrifice?’”

Eileen Decker, president of the Los Angeles Police Commission, said that effort includes identifying $100 million to $150 million in cuts from the Police Department — something City Council President Nury Martinez and other council members had called for earlier in the day. The LAPD’s total annual budget is $1.86 billion. .

by Anonymousreply 65June 4, 2020 8:33 AM

Take away their guns and defund the military as well. Then take away the knees of anyone who uses them in this manner.

by Anonymousreply 66June 4, 2020 11:00 AM

[quote] to dismiss and diminish the unique injustice visited upon black people in the U.S.

You diminish and dismiss the injustice visited upon Jews, East/South Asians, First Nations, Hispanics and women by elevating that injustice to "unique" when it is visited on Black people. And far more shameful, you use that "unique" label to ignore the bigotry and hatred within the Black community.

by Anonymousreply 67June 4, 2020 11:14 AM

No one is diminishing injustices against any of the communities you list, R67; everyone is suggesting that black people have borne the brunt of sustained American racism for 400 years. I noticed, for instance, that you didn't include in your list of the aggrieved, Italians and Poles, more groups maligned for perceived differences... but now that they're part of the American fabric (well, being white skinned and all...) you failed to think of them and their plight. Which is, of course, indicative of the kind of racism that you're trying to say doesn't exist.

by Anonymousreply 68June 4, 2020 2:59 PM

R66 Exactly. The nexus of the problem... why do we spend more on military spending on the next ten countries combined? It's because of the lobbying and control of policy making by those making a profit from it (insert Eisenhower's speech on the military industrial complex). We've let it be out of control and take us into profound debt and create a false scarcity of resources that defend "austerity" for everything but military spending. The police militarism feeds into this scam... protected special interests under the cover of national security or community safety.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 69June 4, 2020 4:56 PM

[quote] It's half the reason we're in the situation we're in.

What situation? How is that linked to killing black people???

by Anonymousreply 70June 4, 2020 4:59 PM

[quote] You diminish and dismiss the injustice visited upon Jews, East/South Asians, First Nations, Hispanics and women by elevating that injustice to "unique" when it is visited on Black people. And far more shameful, you use that "unique" label to ignore the bigotry and hatred within the Black community.

Oh, look, our resident Canadian retard has chimed in.

by Anonymousreply 71June 4, 2020 4:59 PM

[quote] the Black experience in America is NOT unique.

Yes it is, you racist fuck. It’s America’s original sin. You sound white and fucking dumb as hell. First Nations is = Canadian. You’re deplorable Canadian trash and are getting an FF.

by Anonymousreply 72June 4, 2020 5:01 PM

FF R67 who wrote this as well....

The Black community needs to take responsibility for its dysfunction, hatreds and failures and cease blaming everyone else for its misfortune.

The Black community is guilty of the same racist, bigoted behavior for which it condemns others. Hypocrisy is also part of its myriad problems.

“Elon Musk Demands Reopening America Now”

How dare Musk remind the public about their civil rights. How DARE he!

R20 People face "danger" every single days. It's called life. The Constitution GUARANTEES citizens rights. Not privileges, which may be summarily suspended, but rights, which are sacrosanct. There is no codicil in the Constitution allowing suspension of these rights due to panic and paranoia.

by Anonymousreply 73June 4, 2020 5:07 PM

Muriel needs to ban r67.

by Anonymousreply 74June 4, 2020 5:07 PM

R72 But it really isn't unique to the US. In the Transatlantic slave trade less than 10% of the slaves were brought to the US/British Colonies. 90% went to Latin America and the Caribbean.

by Anonymousreply 75June 4, 2020 8:35 PM

My friend actually said today can we split the country in two. I am starting to think the idea isn't crazy.

by Anonymousreply 76June 4, 2020 8:48 PM

R76 But how would that fix anything, concerning these problems? The police brutality and protests and rioting is not in only red states or blue states, it is everywhere.

by Anonymousreply 77June 4, 2020 8:56 PM

I think we should hire mean High School girls to to police our halls and our streets. They would first warn criminals with just a glance and then get them uninvited to the Friday night's after-game party if you didn't straighten up.

by Anonymousreply 78June 4, 2020 9:26 PM

Won’t somebody please shit in my mouth??!!

by Anonymousreply 79June 4, 2020 11:10 PM

Blacks were literally written out of the US constitution. They were killed, exploited, denied education and built the country.

by Anonymousreply 80June 4, 2020 11:11 PM

R80 Where were they written out of the Constitution? If you are referring to the 3/5 compromise. It has been terribly misrepresented as of late. It was the slave owners, at the time, who argued that slaves should be counted as whole people, to inflate the power of the slave owners. It was the non-slave owners and those against the practice who argued that slaves should not count at all when determining Representation, since they could not vote and were not free. Finally, they agreed to count slaves as 3/5 a person to get all the states to approve the Constitution. Any free black person, was always counted as a whole person under the Constitution, regardless of where they lived.

If slaves had counted as whole persons, Lincoln wouldn't have been elected in 1860, it would have probably taken one to two more decades for it to have been possible. And, that is only if the immigration to the Northern states in the aftermath of the Civil War had still happened.

by Anonymousreply 81June 4, 2020 11:25 PM

Would it be better to police ourselves? I guess we would have to all get a gun?

by Anonymousreply 82June 4, 2020 11:27 PM

Big gun sales this week. I hope all black people buying guns.

by Anonymousreply 83June 4, 2020 11:28 PM

[quote] I hope all black people buying guns.

If police are defunded they'll need them. Nobody seems to have thought it through but if for example the LAPD cuts mentioned above actually occur, it will be the poor and minority neighborhoods who lose most of their protection. The politicians will make sure the remaining police resources are concentrated in the wealthier (whiter) neighborhoods and the business districts.

by Anonymousreply 84June 5, 2020 3:29 AM

[quote] it will be the poor and minority neighborhoods who lose most of their protection.

'Protection', R84? Minorities who call out the police have a fair chance of becoming their victims, rather than getting any 'protection.'

[quote] The politicians will make sure the remaining police resources are concentrated in the wealthier (whiter) neighborhoods and the business districts.

Hasn't that always been the case anyway?

by Anonymousreply 85June 5, 2020 3:35 AM

R85 Just wondering how many minorities do you think the police actually kill in a year? Don't look it up just give your perception.

by Anonymousreply 86June 5, 2020 3:42 AM

I have no idea, R86. Surely there must be statistics. I'm speaking more of the expressed perceptions of minorities, many of whom dislike having to call the police. I myself am white, and although I am still alive, rare has been the occasion that I've called them out that they did not give me cause to regret it, or at least make me feel quite unsafe. I'm still awaiting the day one of them decides to mistake my cane for a weapon and shoots me.

by Anonymousreply 87June 5, 2020 4:16 AM

R87 In 2019 there were, according to the Washington Post police shootings database, 1,004 instances of the police shooting and killing a suspect: 376 white people, 236 black people, 159 Hispanic people, 40 "other," and 193 unknown. Of those the unarmed numbers were 25 white, 15 black, 11 Hispanic, 5 "other." Now that doesn't take into account other instances such as George Floyd's death, since he wasn't shot. The US population is 328,200,000 of which it is estimated 251,073,000 are white, 43,978,800 are black, 60,060,600 are Hispanic. To put it into perspective over 47,000 people in the US commit suicide every year, meaning we kill ourselves over forty times the rate that cops kill us.

It is a problem, and we NEED STRONG police reform. But it is not the epidemic that the media makes it out to be. It is not some form of genocide. I've watched interviews with protestors this past week saying they are protesting because they are tired of the police just gunning down young black men in the street. But, the statistics doesn't bear that out. Social media seems to amplify the issue, making it seem much more widespread and common, warping people's perception. It also contributes to the feeling that we need instant action. There are protestors saying they will continue to protest until George Floyd's killers are convicted. That will take months, if not years. The wheels of justice move very slowly, regardless of if the killer is a cop or a civilian. This isn't the Old West, or a movie, were a killer can be arrested, tried, convicted, and hanged all in one week.

by Anonymousreply 88June 5, 2020 4:53 AM

R88, yes, the statistics [italic]do[/italic] bear that out. You're simply looking at surface numbers; that is not 'statistics.' '236 blacks' and '15 unarmed blacks' are a significantly larger segment of blacks than '376 whites' and '25 unarmed whites' [italic]when you consider the demographic proportions[/italic] each occupies. In the US, approximately 74% are white, and 12.6% are black.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 89June 5, 2020 5:17 AM

Chicago ;

year to date 230 shot and killed; 1013 shot and wounded.

shot and killed by police 3, shot and wounded by police 2

by Anonymousreply 90June 5, 2020 5:20 AM

R90, if you're going to cite it, link it.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 91June 5, 2020 5:26 AM

R89 yes it is a higher rate but still isn’t what it is made out to be. 236 out of a population of almost 44,000,000 is not an epidemic. It is less than .0006% of the black population. Police officers are more likely to be killed in the line of duty, than black people are to be shot and killed by them. There are around 800,000 sworn police officers in the US, 48 of them were killed last year which is .005%.

by Anonymousreply 92June 5, 2020 5:47 AM

R92, that might be impressive if you were estimating probabilities that a black individual might be killed by police, but that's not what we're looking at here. It's still unacceptable.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 93June 5, 2020 6:06 AM

Poison Dragon,

Your denominator shouldn’t be all whites or all blacks. It should be white police encounters and black police encounters.

by Anonymousreply 94June 5, 2020 11:21 AM

The very idea of defunding the police is ridiculous and absurd.

by Anonymousreply 95June 5, 2020 11:26 AM

[quote]Your denominator shouldn’t be all whites or all blacks. It should be white police encounters and black police encounters.

Any way to avoid getting to the real problem, eh, R94?

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 96June 5, 2020 11:48 AM

R96,

No- we should just be comparing apples to apples.

by Anonymousreply 97June 5, 2020 12:35 PM

[Quote]They need more education, more intensive psych evaluation and vetting, re-training that prioritizes restraint instead of kneejerk shoot-to-kill, and physical fitness requirements

THIS.

by Anonymousreply 98June 5, 2020 1:38 PM

[quote] Over the past six years, 30 Philly and 3 statewide electeds have taken more than $188k in campaign contributions from the Philly police

In this case, somebody has the receipts. How can you argue that their budgets need to include bribe money?

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 99June 5, 2020 4:06 PM

Tony Timpa's death was similar in that bad policing e.g. cops mindlessly reacting to things instead of assessing the individual and looking at the person as an individual. These cops even made jokes at Timpa's expense as he layed dying. Timpa was white and the cops were I think 3 whites and 1 black.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 100June 5, 2020 6:57 PM

Totally. Police have nearly NO training. Five months worth. An Enormous union that prevents them from ever getting fired. And they take up more than have the municipale budget

by Anonymousreply 101June 5, 2020 7:03 PM

NYTimes Headline: June 5, 2040

“Black communities left defenseless for 20years after police forces defunded under Donald Trump”

by Anonymousreply 102June 5, 2020 7:13 PM

I was hoping this proposal was a joke but apparently not. Disbanding the police and using social workers and medics to bridge the gap left by no police force? Do these idiots who propose such asinine shit know any social workers or medics who'd take such job offers? Do they propose these socials and medics carry firearms for self-protection when they investigate calls? I used to work with social workers at the jail and no way would any of them trade their safe jobs to go out on emergency calls?

by Anonymousreply 103June 5, 2020 7:40 PM

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 104June 5, 2020 7:43 PM

Response times for emergencies will take longer and gun sales will go up. Gun deaths will go up across-the-board since civilians are not trained like police officers are.

by Anonymousreply 105June 5, 2020 7:48 PM

Yes. When what is being funded is acting like a criminal organization, the funds should be cut off. Anyone saying otherwise is brainwashed.

Our funds should not be going to something that works against liberty and justice. It’s like Americans haven’t known the meaning of words. What we have isn’t really liberty and justice for all.

by Anonymousreply 106June 5, 2020 7:48 PM

R102, you're a cunt

by Anonymousreply 107June 5, 2020 7:49 PM

[quote]Gun deaths will go up across-the-board since civilians are not trained like police officers are.

you're a cunt too, CLEARLY cops AREN'T well trained, they are barely trained at all in fact. so fuck off

by Anonymousreply 108June 5, 2020 7:50 PM

R108 Nevertheless I still feel safer with an armed cop than an armed civilian.

by Anonymousreply 109June 5, 2020 7:51 PM

Thank you R107. I try.

by Anonymousreply 110June 5, 2020 8:11 PM

[post redacted because independent.co.uk thinks that links to their ridiculous rag are a bad thing. Somebody might want to tell them how the internet works. Or not. We don't really care. They do suck though. Our advice is that you should not click on the link and whatever you do, don't read their truly terrible articles.]

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 111June 5, 2020 8:46 PM

The entire 57-member Emergency Response Team of the Buffalo Police Department has resigned after two members of the unit were suspended for pushing a 75-year-old to the ground during the George Floyd protests.

The resignations were confirmed by the police union and two law enforcement that spoke to The Buffalo News.

Two members of the tactical unit, which responds to riots and crowd control, were suspended without pay on Thursday after video emerged of the confrontation during the emergency curfew.

The development that the members resigned "out of support for the suspended officers, as well as the disgust with the admin" was first reported by Spectrum News.

Buffalo Police Benevolent Association President John Evans said the officers were "simply doing their job" and the man "slipped" during the interaction, which was aired by local news WBFO on Thursday night.

The footage appeared to show the two offers pushing the senior man before he fell and hit his head on the sidewalk.

"Our position is these officers were simply following orders from Deputy Police Commissioner Joseph Gramaglia to clear the square," Mr Evans told The Buffalo News.

"It doesn't specify clear the square of men, 50 and under or 15 to 40. They were simply doing their job. I don't know how much contact was made. He did slip in my estimation. He fell backwards."

The mass resignation reportedly follows the union's direction to members on Friday that they would no longer pay legal fees to defend officers from incidents stemming from the protests.

Buffalo Mayor Byron Brown issued a statement confirming "developments related to work assignments", which reportedly sees the officers resigned from the tactical unit but not from the larger police department.

"At this time, we can confirm that contingency plans are in place to maintain police services and ensure public safety within our community," Mr Brown said.

New York State Police confirmed that additional troopers were called into the region, including members of the Mobile Field Unit.

During the incident in the area near Buffalo City Hall, activist Martin Gugino can be seen in the footage to approach police before stumbling backwards and hitting his head on the pavement.

Blood pools on the concrete as police call it in on their radio and continue clearing the square. Hr was rushed to Erie County Medical Centre, where he was in a stable but serious condition.

Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz said told a press conference on Friday that he was "utterly disgusted" by the officers' decision to quit the tactical unit.

by Anonymousreply 112June 5, 2020 8:50 PM

Have you all ever BEEN to Buffalo ? They are more racist than the shittiest town in Alabama . They hate everybody.

by Anonymousreply 113June 5, 2020 8:54 PM

PLEASE WATCH THIS AND MAKE IT A THREAD. 🚨 🚨 🚨

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 114June 5, 2020 9:01 PM

R102 . . .

NYTimes Headline: June 5, 2040

“Black communities left defenseless for 20 years after police forces defunded under Donald Trump, who served as President from 2016-2024 and was succeeded by Michael Pence from 2024-2032”

Fixed it for you. You're welcome.

by Anonymousreply 115June 5, 2020 9:16 PM

[quote] [R85] Just wondering how many minorities do you think the police actually kill in a year? Don't look it up just give your perception.

Well, I know the number of unarmed white people that are killed by police each year -- 0.

by Anonymousreply 116June 5, 2020 9:24 PM

R116 WRONG. The police shot and killed 25 unarmed white people last year.

by Anonymousreply 117June 5, 2020 9:27 PM

R117, Frankly, 25 sounds rather low.

by Anonymousreply 118June 5, 2020 9:29 PM

"0" is my perception. The likelihood that an encounter between an unarmed black man will end in death is spectacularly higher than for an unarmed white men. That's why Karens call or threaten to call police on black people. It's a weapon.

by Anonymousreply 119June 5, 2020 9:37 PM

White men are also more likely to own a gun, a fact that makes them more likely to die in a police encounter.

by Anonymousreply 120June 5, 2020 9:50 PM

R118 It could be low. That is the numbers reported by the Washington Post. There have been some instances where the cops are known to plant a weapon, so they can claim the person was armed. And remember that armed could mean any sort of weapon, knife, baseball bat, etc. 376 white people and 236 black people total were shot and killed by the police in 2019.

It is true that black people are on average more likely to be shot and killed by the cops than white people. But, overall there isn't a strong likelihood of anyone being killed by cops. It is a very small percentage of police contacts. There are around 50,000,000 contacts between the public and police a year and around 1000 police shooting deaths, which would equal out to .002% of police encounters result in death, regardless of race. Police have around 6,000,000 encounters with black people per year which means around .004% of encounters with them result in the black person being shot and killed, or 99.996% of the encounters do not result in being shot and killed. White people have around 37,000,000 encounters with the police each year, and .001% is the percentage of white encounters with the police that results in being shot and killed. The caveat is that these figures do not take into account anything other than police shootings. Because I cannot find readily available figures for those.

I am not arguing that there doesn't need to be reform of the police, even one unjustified killing by the police is too many. But thanks to the media, especially social media, our perception of the magnitude of the problem has gotten out of hand to where people are actually discussing doing away with the police, as though they are going around killing dozens of black people a day. There are bad cops, and they need to be removed, but by and large cops do more good for their communities, including minority communities, than they do bad.

by Anonymousreply 121June 5, 2020 10:23 PM

R121 Yes, very intelligent analysis. Additionally, the types of reform people are talking about will require additional funding, not less.

by Anonymousreply 122June 5, 2020 11:06 PM

This is the most glassy-eyed, batshit movement I've ever heard of. This will end in tears!

by Anonymousreply 123June 5, 2020 11:10 PM

Why can't American cops look like Italian cops? Even the Italian-American ones usually look like schlubs.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 124June 5, 2020 11:12 PM

R123, When I see that a fledgling cause is supported by Jane Fonda . . . I run.

by Anonymousreply 125June 5, 2020 11:13 PM

We need to defund the Police, EMS and ALL government agencies! They are remnants of white, racist colonialism. They are oppressors of POC! These systemically racist governmental bodies are funded by inherently racist and oppressive capitalism!! Defund them all for fuck sakes!!!!

by Anonymousreply 126June 5, 2020 11:16 PM

We should defund public schools too for their racist standardized tests.

by Anonymousreply 127June 5, 2020 11:22 PM

Leave it up to rightwing conservatives to jump into hysterics when someone dares to suggest reallocating funds when it comes to city budgets. There's absolutely no reason why cops need over half of the budget when everybody else -- emergency services, municipal workers -- is getting furloughed or seeing their budget decrease. Nobody on this thread is saying to eliminate law enforcement entirely -- that's crazy -- but I guess that's how their tiny minds work: they only see things in extremities.

by Anonymousreply 128June 5, 2020 11:23 PM

I'm 68 and have fortunately only needed police assistance three times in my lifetime.

Each time, they were incredibly helpful and I was most grateful.

by Anonymousreply 129June 5, 2020 11:32 PM

[quote] Huge unfunded liabilities.... infinitely more serious than the "federal entitlements budget crisis" that "fiscal conservatives" complain about relentlessly.

Republicans are the most stingy, penny-pinching bastards in the whole entire world. They bitch endlessly about any minor tax hike when it comes to schools, municipal services, public works, teachers, etc. Everything is a "pork project" to them.

But when it comes to bailing out corporations or cops -- oh, heavens, their purse-strings just open right up. They want to live in an authoritarian Police State because their entire lives are based around [bold]FEAR[/bold]. Fear of the other. And anger.

by Anonymousreply 130June 5, 2020 11:35 PM

R129, I'm 55 and have only required their assistance a few times.

Each time, they were less than helpful, and I regretted calling them.

by Anonymousreply 131June 5, 2020 11:39 PM

R129, are you white? Where they? State your and their identities.

by Anonymousreply 132June 5, 2020 11:49 PM

The only people who benefit from underfunded police departments are thieves, abusers, and organized crime. Which will all explode in Minneapolis if their city council goes through with this.

by Anonymousreply 133June 5, 2020 11:49 PM

Is it true that US police forces had their origins as slave catchers? An actor Clarke Peters made that assertion on BBC Newsnight Friday June 5th.

by Anonymousreply 134June 5, 2020 11:58 PM

The New York Sheriff's Office was founded in 1626, and the Albany County Sheriff's Department in the 1660s. In the colonial period, policing was provided by elected sheriffs and local militias (of which every American is a member, hence the Second Amendment)..

The first city police services were established in Philadelphia in 1751, Richmond, Virginia in 1807, Boston in 1838, and New York in 1845.

by Anonymousreply 135June 6, 2020 12:08 AM

R134, that depends upon the extent to which our modern police find their origins in the 'well-ordered militia' mentioned in the 2nd Amendment. The 2nd Amendment of December 1791 was created to keep slaveholding states secure from the threat of an uprising similar to the one which happened in Haiti in August of 1791, just a few months previous.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 136June 6, 2020 12:09 AM

The Europeans invented slavery! The whole white world is all about, was invented by, funded by, enslaving POC!

by Anonymousreply 137June 6, 2020 12:11 AM

R132, Yes and Yes.

by Anonymousreply 138June 6, 2020 12:13 AM

'The alternative is not more money for police training programs, hardware or oversight' '..instead of gang units, we need community-based anti-violence programs...'

Fine, good luck. Rest assured however that, regardless of what kind of changes are made to inner city policing, ultimately the middle and upper classes *will* protect themselves -- in many, if not most, other countries, this means private security forces which have no background, training or accountability requirements. Ultimately, they are indistinguishable from private armies and operate entirely outside of public scrutiny and control.

by Anonymousreply 139June 6, 2020 2:56 AM

I've been talking to a lot of the people who are proponents of defunding the police and sent them this thread. A lot of them were horrified and wanted to bleach their eyes out. One of them said they couldn't read past R13 before they had to close out due to how racist it is. They have a point.

by Anonymousreply 140June 6, 2020 5:51 AM

R140 What sweet summer children! They need to grow up. If they don't listen to more cynical people now, life will teach them the hard way.

by Anonymousreply 141June 6, 2020 8:52 AM

Yeah if you want to live in a mad max world. They just need to replace all the training officers who tech these rookies their bad habits.

by Anonymousreply 142June 6, 2020 9:08 AM

Sorry, are you saying we live in "Mad Max world?"

by Anonymousreply 143June 6, 2020 9:16 AM

[quote]ultimately the middle and upper classes *will* protect themselves

When legislated law is replaced by the law of the jungle and the mob, when elected government abrogates its duty of protecting its citizens, then the populace has no choice but to find replacements for the failures of in its social system and elected representatives.

by Anonymousreply 144June 6, 2020 9:18 AM

[quote] Defund the Police Movement

This slogan, itself, isn't doing itself many favors. As you can see on this thread, alarmists use it to strike fear that people are calling for eliminating all funding for law enforcement or the outright elimination of cops. It's a misnomer. What the vast majority of people really want is a reallocation/reprioritzation of city budgets. So much goes towards policing at the expense of everything else.

Where all of that police spending goes to is cloaked in mystery at best. Crime is down (especially during COVID), but that police budget keeps increasing, and for what exactly? Tactical riot gear? Helicopter and drone surveillance? It would help police departments' case if they were at least more transparent with their expenditures.

by Anonymousreply 145June 6, 2020 9:32 AM

Defunding the police is what white supremacists want. Without the police, more black people will kill each other.

by Anonymousreply 146June 6, 2020 9:37 AM

^OK, Derek Chauvin. I didn't know they allow you internet access while on suicide watch.

by Anonymousreply 147June 6, 2020 9:40 AM

I say we privatize the police. That way, if police departments do a shitty job, you can fire the, and hire a different police department.

We need less cops on the beat and more doing detective work, doing security, responding to emergencies.

by Anonymousreply 148June 6, 2020 9:44 AM

The USA is one of the most violent countries in the world. Everybody can carry a weapon. Defund the police doesn't seem a good idea at all.

But it's pretty obvious that most of them are unprepared for their job, they don't know how to deal with very simple situations without using their gun and that's a big big problem.

And all that without even starting with the obvious racial bias.

And not, private police only look for benefits and that never comes with a good service

by Anonymousreply 149June 6, 2020 9:46 AM

[quote] When legislated law is replaced by the law of the jungle and the mob, when elected government abrogates its duty of protecting its citizens, then the populace has no choice but to find replacements for the failures of in its social system and elected representatives.

Early San Francisco like modern San Francisco was thoroughly corrupt. In 1851 and again in 1856 the citizens organized a strong vigilante group to return law to the city. Exiling some of the city's lesser element and hanging others. The exiled politicians subsequently sued Coleman for sums amounting to a total of $1,500,000, but the suits were all defeated. Both Coleman and the Vigilance Committee were upheld by every court in both the East and West which considered the cases.

Their headquarters where they deployed cannons to discourage the government thugs was called Fort Gunnybags and its site is now a skyscraper at 243 Sacramento Street

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 150June 6, 2020 9:46 AM

This gives ammunition to the critics who say liberal cities are rampant with crime. So many once beautiful suburbs in LA have gone to shit in the last few decades. Something like this would just accelerate it.

by Anonymousreply 151June 6, 2020 2:09 PM

[quote] So many once beautiful suburbs in LA have gone to shit in the last few decades.

R151, except it's not. Crime peaked in the early1990s. Only lazy idiots believe something like that.

by Anonymousreply 152June 6, 2020 2:35 PM

Absolutely against this movement.

Police need more training. Better candidates.

by Anonymousreply 153June 6, 2020 3:17 PM

R153 That's literally what people have been calling for for the last 5, 10, 25, 50 years. It doesn't work because the police are not accountable to anyone. The only way to reign them in is to defund them. They don't need billion dollar budgets to the detriment of schools and public transport.

by Anonymousreply 154June 6, 2020 3:20 PM

Absolute nonsense that will play into the Republican hands to scare white people away from the Democrats. We need the police to protect and not to persecute poor communities. We need a better educated police force and a better trained one. we also need much more diversity in police departments, as well as in our communities.

by Anonymousreply 155June 6, 2020 3:35 PM

[quote]we also need much more diversity in police departments, as well as in our communities.

Diversity will not change one iota society's hypocrisy and double-standard when it comes to holding the Black community responsible for its behavior and actions.

by Anonymousreply 156June 6, 2020 3:41 PM

[Quote] We need a better educated police force and a better trained one. we also need much more diversity in police departments,

We have that already and this is the result. Stop living in Fantasy Land and face up to reality. Liberal reforms have done nothing to reign in the police department. Defunding them, especially in an economic crisis like we're dealing with now, is necessary both to trim the pork fat and balance the budget.

by Anonymousreply 157June 6, 2020 3:44 PM

People in this thread keep forgetting that we're about to enter a great depression. If you all want the scenes of the French Revolution to play out here in America, then [bold] don't [/bold] defund the police, while cutting everything else, and see what happens. Police budgets have ballooned over the last two decades because liberals naively believed more funding would lead to reforms. They have not. It's time to scale the budgets back. This is the time to do it.

by Anonymousreply 158June 6, 2020 3:46 PM

[quote] The USA is one of the most violent countries in the world.

The US is ranked 94th in the world in per capita murders according to the UN.

by Anonymousreply 159June 6, 2020 4:06 PM

Also, if you want to know whose side you're on in opposing defunding the police, you will be joining the progressive movement of corrupt mayor Bill de Blasio and Bernie Sanders. Congratulations, DL. You are on the wrong side here.

[Quote] Defund the police? @NYCMayor says he does not think that is the way forward. "We need a different approach, we need a host of reforms, the right police leadership. We need to get to commissioner Shea's vision of working with the youth"

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 160June 6, 2020 4:17 PM

[Quote] Bernie Sanders: We must treat this violent racism like the security threat that it is. That means investing in law enforcement resources to combat the growing population of white nationalists who are engaging in violence.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 161June 6, 2020 4:20 PM

[quote] Also, if you want to know whose side you're on in opposing defunding the police, you will be joining the progressive movement of corrupt mayor Bill de Blasio and Bernie Sanders.

No, it just goes to show that this movement is even further to the left than Bernie or De Blasio.

by Anonymousreply 162June 6, 2020 5:06 PM

The fact that crime is going down is evidence that the police is more effective.

by Anonymousreply 163June 6, 2020 5:07 PM

R153, the first problem is that being a cop isn’t going to make you rich. Most of the best and brightest people who would make good cops are not going to be good cops, or they’re not going to stay cops for long. They’ll move on to better careers.

Most of the people who become cops are going to be mundane, average people. And the people who become cops are often ex-military because they don’t know what else to do. Or they become cops because they like being in positions of power over others. Or they become cops because they like the action of chasing criminals.

At the end of the day, there is a basic human supply problem.

by Anonymousreply 164June 6, 2020 5:27 PM

[quote] At the end of the day, there is a basic human supply problem.

What a callous thing to say. I hope that these cops don't display the utter lack of empathy as you do.

by Anonymousreply 165June 6, 2020 5:33 PM

R164: not all are "mundane, average people." I know one police officer who went to Harvard and writes for "The New Yorker." I know others who are well-educated and well-read. They are scattered amongst the rank and file.

As to all the posters here who poo poo the notion of increasing diversity amongst the police and in our own communities, most of you are probably like me -- gay, white men. Part of a societal problem is that many white people don't know black people as peers, neighbors, work colleagues, or friends. There may no longer be segregation de jure but there is still segregation de facto. I now live in a town within 90 minutes of two major American cities. I have no neighbors of color. I have a couple of friends/work colleagues who are African-American. I have a few friends from high school and college who are Latino/Latina. Most of the gay guys I know are not men of color. I teach at a private university where the student body is diversifying, but it is still majority white. I'd love to know how many white, gay guys on here have a similar or different experience interacting with black or brown people as peers, neighbors, friends, or colleagues to mine.

If you wish to defund police departments...well demilitarize them. Policing is different from military action. We've turned the police into paramilitary organizations. And if you defund the police, gun control has to happen. Is that going to occur in this country? I doubt it.

by Anonymousreply 166June 6, 2020 6:16 PM

R166, I’m a 38 year-old bi white male. I went to private schools my whole life. There were few black students, but they weren’t non-existent.

There were plenty of black students at my law school in Seattle.

Just remember, there’s a reason white flight happens. When I was a small child, one of the reasons my family chose to put me in private school was because they didn’t want me getting beat up by black kids. And that is actually not an uncommon experience for white people.

Even well to do black families don’t want their kids going to school with black kids. White flight doesn’t just apply to white people.

by Anonymousreply 167June 6, 2020 6:27 PM

I have to ask anyone wanting to defund the police...Do you like Blackwater and Aegis? Cause that's what you're going to get.

by Anonymousreply 168June 6, 2020 6:30 PM

[quote] And if you defund the police, gun control has to happen. Is that going to occur in this country? I doubt it.

Gun sales will increase if you defund to the police. It already has these past few weeks.

[quote] Most of the gay guys I know are not men of color. I teach at a private university where the student body is diversifying, but it is still majority white. I'd love to know how many white, gay guys on here have a similar or different experience interacting with black or brown people as peers, neighbors, friends, or colleagues to mine.

I don't talk about them like they are some monolithic group.

[quote] There may no longer be segregation de jure but there is still segregation de facto.

That's what our media masters want. They don't want us to be living among eachother. Instead they want to divide us and have us fight eachother.

by Anonymousreply 169June 6, 2020 6:32 PM

[quote] I have to ask anyone wanting to defund the police...Do you like Blackwater and Aegis? Cause that's what you're going to get.

That’s what the rich people will get— well those that don’t already employ private security. The rich will get these guys, the poor and working class will have to settle for gangs (as seen with the Latin Kings in Chicago this week) and those in the rural areas will get the wannabe militia types.

by Anonymousreply 170June 6, 2020 6:40 PM

[quote] I don't talk about them like they are some monolithic group.

and I do not treat people as if they were part of some monolithic group, R169, but that how language works to convey our ideas

by Anonymousreply 171June 6, 2020 6:49 PM

“I know one police officer who went to Harvard...”

Now I have officially heard it all.

by Anonymousreply 172June 6, 2020 6:54 PM

R163, link?

Man this site is now yahoo.

by Anonymousreply 173June 6, 2020 6:54 PM

R172 It's actually not uncommon. Ex-military and people with good educations end up as policemen out of an idealistic desire to serve the community. It's not what ends up happening, but that's what they sign up for.

by Anonymousreply 174June 6, 2020 6:57 PM

[Quote] The fact that crime is going down is evidence that the police is more effective.

That's blatantly false.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 175June 6, 2020 6:59 PM

R172, here you go:

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 176June 6, 2020 7:01 PM

They can put the horses out to grass for a start. That should be a significant saving.

The smug pig on the far left seems to be enjoying his job far too much.. Then one of them fell off and, fortunately, was not lynched.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 177June 6, 2020 7:26 PM

R175 Article was paywalled but I already can tell the study was fundamentally flawed. Just because you don't enforce the laws doesn't mean crime ceases to exist. A valid study would look at the impact of law enforcement over a period of years, not a couple weeks.

by Anonymousreply 178June 6, 2020 8:01 PM

R21, it's defuse, not diffuse.

by Anonymousreply 179June 6, 2020 8:07 PM

There are several cities I dearly, dearly hope do this. It will be the spectacle of a lifetime.

by Anonymousreply 180June 6, 2020 8:09 PM

[quote] Defunding the police is what white supremacists want. Without the police, more black people will kill each other.

The police do not police black communities. In segregated cities throughout the country, police focus on protecting the rest of the city from the spread of crime. It is the purposeful absence of police that enables crime. The local law enforcement approach is to contain violence to black communities.

by Anonymousreply 181June 6, 2020 8:12 PM

Better stock up on guns at home.

by Anonymousreply 182June 6, 2020 8:19 PM

Why not just demilitarize the police, repeal qualified immunity, support community policing , bust the police unions and raise taxes to 70 percent for anyone with more than 10 million in assets so there's enough money for all govt services? That way, Michael Moore, Natalie Portman, John Legend, Seth Rogen and every other millionaire proponent of this lame-brained magic thinking can put their money where their mouth is. Otherwise, the groups bearing the risk are society's most vulnerable like the elderly who get to be collateral damage when this plan misfires.

The only people whose perspectives I'm interested in hearing on this issue are actual victims of violence.--not angry middle-class Blacks who are tired of fearing violence. I am too and I experience it when I'm on a deserted subway platform.

by Anonymousreply 183June 6, 2020 9:42 PM

If crime appears to be down its because they are reporting it differently. In my city they developed this program to try to stop the school to prison pipeline in the black community .Instead of arresting the little bastards for felony car jacking,they are now calling it "unauthorized use of a vehicle" etc . So technically crime stats among black youth are indeed down,but not because they arent committing them. Holder started that shit during Obama . Smoke and mirrors .

by Anonymousreply 184June 6, 2020 9:53 PM

R175 that's like saying nobody has the coronavirus when you're not testing for it.

by Anonymousreply 185June 6, 2020 10:24 PM

Over the past five years, as demands for reform have mounted in the aftermath of police violence in cities like Ferguson, Mo., Baltimore and now Minneapolis, police unions have emerged as one of the most significant roadblocks to change. The greater the political pressure for reform, the more defiant the unions often are in resisting it — with few city officials, including liberal leaders, able to overcome their opposition.

They aggressively protect the rights of members accused of misconduct, often in arbitration hearings that they have battled to keep behind closed doors. And they have also been remarkably effective at fending off broader change, using their political clout and influence to derail efforts to increase accountability.

While rates of union membership have dropped by half nationally since the early 1980s, to 10 percent, higher membership rates among police unions give them resources they can spend on campaigns and litigation to block reform. A single New York City police union has spent more than $1 million on state and local races since 2014.

In St. Louis, when Kim Gardner was elected the top prosecutor four years ago, she set out to rein in the city’s high rate of police violence. But after she proposed a unit within the prosecutor’s office that would independently investigate misconduct, she ran into the powerful local police union. The union pressured lawmakers to set aside the proposal, which many supported but then never brought to a vote. Around the same time, a lawyer for the union waged a legal fight to limit the ability of the prosecutor’s office to investigate police misconduct. The following year, a leader of the union said Ms. Gardner should be removed “by force or by choice.”

Politicians tempted to cross police unions have long feared being labeled soft on crime by the unions, or more serious consequences.

When Steve Fletcher, a Minneapolis city councilman and frequent Police Department critic, sought to divert money away from hiring officers and toward a newly created office of violence prevention, he said, the police stopped responding as quickly to 911 calls placed by his constituents. “It operates a little bit like a protection racket,” Mr. Fletcher said of the union.

A spokesman for the Minneapolis Police Department said he was unable to comment.

A few days after prosecutors in Minneapolis charged an officer with murder in the death of George Floyd, the president of the city’s police union denounced political leaders, accusing them of selling out his members and firing four officers without due process.

“It is despicable behavior,” the union president, Lt. Bob Kroll, wrote in a letter to union members obtained by a local reporter. He also referred to protesters as a “terrorist movement.”

1/

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 186June 6, 2020 10:42 PM

Mr. Kroll, who is himself the subject of at least 29 complaints, has also chided the Obama administration for its “oppression of police,” and praised President Trump as someone who “put the handcuffs on the criminals instead of us.”

2/

by Anonymousreply 187June 6, 2020 10:43 PM

In other instances, unions have not resisted reforms outright, but have made them difficult to put in place. Federal intervention is often one of the few reliable ways of reforming police departments. But in Cleveland, the union helped slow the adoption of reforms mandated by a federal consent decree, according to Jonathan Smith, a former U.S. Justice Department official who oversaw the government’s investigation of policing practices there.

Mr. Smith said union officials had signaled to rank-and-file officers that the changes should not be taken seriously, such as a requirement that they report and investigate instances in which they pointed a gun. “I heard this in lots of departments,” Mr. Smith said. “‘Wait it out. Do the minimum you have to do.’” He said he believed that the reforms have since taken hold.

Steve Loomis, the Cleveland police union president at the time of the consent decree, said he and his colleagues saw some of the mandated rules as counterproductive.

“Every time a kid points a gun, he has to do a use-of-force investigation,” Mr. Loomis said of his younger colleagues. “Now guys aren’t pointing their guns when they should be pointing their guns.”

Robert Bruno, a professor of labor relations at the University of Illinois, posited that many police officers see themselves as authority figures who equate compromise with weakness. Other experts said it was rational for police unions, which are often regarded with suspicion by others in the labor movement and see themselves as distinct from it, to protect their members so relentlessly.

“A major role for police unions is basically as an insurance policy,” said Dale Belman, a labor relations professor at Michigan State University who has consulted for police unions. “The feeling of a lot of officers is that it’s very easy to sacrifice them. Something goes wrong and boom.” This has only become more true in an era of ubiquitous cellphone cameras and social media. And the feeling of being under siege has only strengthened demands from union members that they be protected.

In Baltimore, where the city and the Justice Department reached a consent decree in 2017 to overhaul police conduct, the union has described a police department in chaos, with severe staff shortages and low morale. Those who remain said they feel unsupported by their commanders.

“They’re ready to throw police officers under the bus to appease the media and don’t support us even when our actions are appropriate,” said one officer surveyed in a report released last year by a group helping the department implement reforms.

It remains to be seen how the unions will respond to reform initiatives by cities and states since Mr. Floyd’s death, including a new ban on chokeholds in Minneapolis. But in recent days, unions have continued to show solidarity with officers accused of abusive behavior.

The president of a police union in Buffalo said the union stood “100 percent” behind two officers who were suspended on Thursday after appearing to push an older man who fell and suffered head injuries. The union president said the officers “were simply following orders.”

3/

by Anonymousreply 188June 6, 2020 10:43 PM

All 57 officers on the Emergency Response Team, a special squad formed to respond to riots, had resigned from their posts on the team in support of the suspended officers, according to The Buffalo News.

Unions can be so effective at defending their members that cops with a pattern of abuse can be left untouched, with fatal consequences. In Chicago, after the killing of 17-year-old Laquan McDonald by officer Jason Van Dyke, it emerged that Mr. Van Dyke had been the subject of multiple complaints already. But a “code of silence” about misconduct was effectively “baked into” the labor agreements between police unions and the city, according to a report conducted by task force. New York City’s police unions have been among the most vocal opponents of reforms in Albany, including calls to reform the state’s tight restrictions on the disciplinary records of officers. Amid growing momentum in recent days for making those records public, the city’s police unions joined statewide police groups on Friday in urging the Legislature to keep the law in place.

“No rational policy discussion can take place against a backdrop of burning police vehicles and looted store fronts,” read a memo of opposition from the police groups.

The city’s patrol officers’ union, with roughly 24,000 active members, and another representing sergeants have been sharp critics of Mayor Bill de Blasio, who took office in 2014 riding a wave of discontent over stop-and-frisk policing.

The mayor promised reform, but after the fatal shooting of two uniformed officers in Brooklyn by a man who invoked the police killing of Eric Garner, Mr. de Blasio faced an all-but-declared revolt by rank-and-file officers.

The head of the patrol officers’ union, Patrick J. Lynch, said at the time that the mayor had “blood on the hands.” Many officers turned their backs on Mr. de Blasio at the slain officers’ funerals. And, days later, many more engaged in what amounted to a de facto work slowdown. Arrests plummeted as did tickets for minor infractions.

Mr. Lynch has stood by officers even when there is ample evidence of misconduct, defending the officers who killed Amadou Diallo in 1999 and another who, in 2008, shoved a bicyclist to the ground during a protest ride. The union provided lawyers for the officers involved in both cases.

4/

by Anonymousreply 189June 6, 2020 10:44 PM

When liberal politicians do try to advance reform proposals, union officials have resorted to highly provocative rhetoric and hard-boiled campaign tactics to lash out at them. This past week, the head of the sergeants’ union in New York posted a police report on Twitter revealing personal information about the daughter of Mr. de Blasio, who had been arrested during a protest. In St. Louis, the business manager of a local police union, Jeff Roorda, penned an unflattering poem about Ms. Gardner, the local prosecutor, in a union newsletter that read: “You’re a disaster, Misses Kim/ Your heart is dark and vile/You’d rather charge a policeman/ Than all the murders you could file.” The union has also run social media ads against an alderwoman who has also advocated reform, Megan Green, referring to her as a “Communist Cop-Hater” and superimposing her head on the body of Mao Zedong.

Mr. Roorda declined to comment.

At times, the strident leadership appears to beget still more strident leadership. In 2017, Chicago’s Fraternal Order of Police elected a new president who denounced a federal Justice Department investigation prompted by the shooting of Mr. McDonald as “politically motivated” and pledged to fight the “anti-police movement.” That president was ousted this year by a candidate who had derided the ensuing consent decree as “nonsense” and criticized his predecessor for failing to stand up to City Hall.

While statistics compiled by the group Campaign Zero show that police killings and shootings in Chicago have fallen following a set of reforms enacted after a federal investigation, advocates worry that the union will undermine them in contract negotiations. Police unions have traditionally used their bargaining agreements to create obstacles to disciplining officers. One paper by researchers at the University of Chicago found that incidents of violent misconduct in Florida sheriff’s offices increased by about 40 percent after deputies gained collective bargaining rights.

“By continuing to elect people who stand for those values, it more deeply entrenches the break between the community and the police,” said Karen Sheley, director of the Police Practices Project for the American Civil Liberties Union of Illinois. “It makes it far more difficult for reform efforts to go forward.”

As critics of the police get louder and more mainstream, union members have elected more aggressive leaders. In Minneapolis in 2015, Mr. Kroll defeated the union’s longtime president by a nearly two-to-one margin after the city installed a police chief intent on reform.

“I believe Bob Kroll was elected out of fear,” said Janeé Harteau, the police chief at the time, adding that Mr. Kroll’s message to officers was: “We are the only ones that support you. Your community doesn’t support you. Your police chief is trying to get you fired.” Mr. Kroll did not return a call seeking comment. John Elder, the Police Department spokesman, said the current police chief and Mr. Kroll have a strong relationship.

Ms. Harteau said that the department introduced new rules requiring officers to protect the “sanctity of life” and intervene if they saw a colleague improperly using force, but that the union under Mr. Kroll undermined the changes by protecting officers who violated the policies. Data on police shootings and killings in the city appear to show little change despite the reforms.

“I struggle to know if they have gotten more extreme, or if the world has changed and they haven’t,” Mr. Fletcher, the city councilman, said of the union. “Either way, they are profoundly misaligned with the moment.”

End/

by Anonymousreply 190June 6, 2020 10:45 PM

Wait, wait, wait: what about all those sheriffs who are elected (most of them are)? As John Kelly said, we need to be more careful who we elect. If the electorate don't like the sheriff, they can sling them out next time. That probably wouldn't have much effect in large/densely-populated urban areas, but it could be a start. Then make police chiefs directly elected by the citizens: that would change everything.

by Anonymousreply 191June 6, 2020 10:57 PM

You're all pushing these retarded "reforms," and will end up moving to greener pastures when they end up failing and these cities are too blighted to live in.

by Anonymousreply 192June 6, 2020 10:58 PM

[quote] You're all pushing these retarded "reforms," and will end up moving to greener pastures when they end up failing and these cities are too blighted to live in.

Hey Cassie, did you bother to read the NYT article just posted?

I'll give you the tl:dr.... The old white guys who control police unions only want to crack heads and refuse to accept any other sensibility. The world is changing but they're not.

Reform doesn't mean all or nothing.

by Anonymousreply 193June 6, 2020 11:14 PM

You're exactly the idiot who should be heeding me.

by Anonymousreply 194June 6, 2020 11:45 PM

[quote] Black communities left defenseless for 20years after police forces defunded under Donald Trump

What does Trump have to do with it? He’s not cutting funds.

by Anonymousreply 195June 7, 2020 12:43 AM

R2 here. Where did 'Defund the Police' originate? Clearly it's spreading memetically on social media. I'm curious, though: Are the known Russian bot accounts promoting it? Or, as with so many issues, are they playing both sides of it?

Not speaking for or against it at this point; I'm just curious.

by Anonymousreply 196June 7, 2020 4:37 AM

I think cops should have to pay for their own for the patrol cars and they should pay for their own uniforms.

by Anonymousreply 197June 7, 2020 5:07 AM

There is a logical inconsistency between advocating "Defund the Police" and engaging in behavior that add millions in police overtime to the payroll; also claiming that diverted funds should go to the neighborhoods while condoning the actions of people who loot and trash those neighborhoods. It's sloganeering instead of thinking.

by Anonymousreply 198June 7, 2020 5:15 AM

How many celebrities supporting the Defund the Police movement live in gated communities with private security forces?

by Anonymousreply 199June 7, 2020 5:57 AM

How many posters complaining about the Defund the Police movement probably bitch and whine about every other little penny of spending on earth, including probably the $1.99 Datalounge monthly membership?

by Anonymousreply 200June 7, 2020 7:05 AM

I worked for the police department of a major U.S. city for 16 years, the police have always been racist. They are becoming more aggressive with the general population in response to the proliferation of semi automatic and automatic weapons. We need to address the problem of gun worship in our culture. It's sickening to hear Hollywood celebrities talk about how dangerous our society has become when a lot of their wealth was obtained via the glamorization of violent movies and television.

by Anonymousreply 201June 7, 2020 8:46 AM

Legalize drugs. All of them. Drop the prices so that a homeless person can support a habit recycling cans. Legalize prostitution. Neuter the gangs fighting over the drug trade. They have to be violent. Cheap drugs end 75% of property crime. Make cops live in the neighborhoods they patrol. It's nuts that they can crack skulls in the city, treat everyone, including crime victims like shit, fuck up a place and then zip off to the burbs where they're worshiped. And finally, figure out why 40% of cops beat their spouses and kids. Something is wrong with people who chose to be pigs.

by Anonymousreply 202June 7, 2020 9:03 AM

Thugs will always be far better armed and far more motivated than the police.

by Anonymousreply 203June 7, 2020 9:09 AM

"Something is wrong with people who chose to be pigs."

There are many who chose to be cops because their fathers, grandfathers or uncles were cops.

by Anonymousreply 204June 7, 2020 10:31 AM

Police are never held responsible for their failures to police. The epidemic of violence in black communities in Chicago is not blamed on the failure of law enforcement. It is blamed on black people. So black people pay taxes so that some fat, racist cop from Bridgeport or Cicero can earn $150,000 a year to eat donuts? That is, when he's not shooting at UNARMED black taxpayers

by Anonymousreply 205June 7, 2020 4:06 PM

If the police are defunded, every law abiding citizen that works will flee. So, will businesses. Anyone with a brain that can critically think and the has the means will.

Cue protection rackets and organized gangs taking over to shake down who is left.

Communities will throw up walls and hire heavily armed security that are anywhere near a defunded area.

At this point I am not sure who is worse? The extreme Right or Left? I say this as a moderate Democrat.

by Anonymousreply 206June 7, 2020 5:54 PM

Police are obviously paid way too much. They need to be paid less if they’re just violent assholes.

by Anonymousreply 207June 7, 2020 5:56 PM

R207, heaven forbid the police receive $110 billion instead of $115 billion! Crime will shoot up. Nevermind how much of that money goes towards their cushy, state-of-the-art, air-conditioned administrative buildings.

by Anonymousreply 208June 7, 2020 6:00 PM

Defund the motherfuckers or drastically reduce their authority and role in society. No more drug war etc...

by Anonymousreply 209June 7, 2020 6:02 PM

R207 If you're worried about corruption and wasteful spending, you'd have a much wider base of support than trying to convince everyone that the people who keep them safe from crime are evil butchers.

by Anonymousreply 210June 7, 2020 6:02 PM

I operate on the assumption that the posters here seething about the police are well educated burnouts from wealthy families.

by Anonymousreply 211June 7, 2020 6:03 PM

R210, I don't know why you are referring to me, as nothing I have said in this thread remotely reaches the hyperbole of your butcher comment.

by Anonymousreply 212June 7, 2020 6:04 PM

De Blasio is claiming he'll "defund the police." No actual plan presented. Certainly not pandering!

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 213June 7, 2020 6:05 PM

Defunding the police...what could go wrong?

by Anonymousreply 214June 7, 2020 6:10 PM

[quote] Police are obviously paid way too much.

Oh, trust me. Some trolls on this thread would be the first type of NIMBY asshole to attend city council meetings and complain about any little increase in city spending, schools -- but they're A-OK signing over multibillion dollar checks to police each year.

by Anonymousreply 215June 7, 2020 6:10 PM

The US needs to grow the fuck up and just legalize drugs. It's beyond time. Yes, there will be problems with drugs being legal, but they won't be nearly as bad as all the numerous societal problems that keeping drugs illegal plagues us with.

by Anonymousreply 216June 7, 2020 6:12 PM

R216 speaks the truth!

by Anonymousreply 217June 7, 2020 6:14 PM

[quote] At this point I am not sure who is worse? The extreme Right or Left? I say this as a moderate Democrat.

I've been inching my way to the right for several years now. There seems to be very little tethering me to the left except gay rights and that may not be the most important issue anymore.

by Anonymousreply 218June 7, 2020 6:16 PM

R218 -- good. Move to the right. Your style of idiotic assholery fits right in with the type of fat cunt who would attend a Trump rally.

by Anonymousreply 219June 7, 2020 6:19 PM

[quote] If the police are defunded, every law abiding citizen that works will flee. So, will businesses. Anyone with a brain that can critically think and the has the means will.

I think that terminology -- "Defund The Police" -- is alarming because it is nuanced and its proponents don't have time to explain it to everyone as if they were 5 years old. It is not advocating reduction or elimination of law enforcement. Among other things, it means taking some of the billions of dollars directed to police and instead allocating that money directly to the underserved communities that police fail to protect and serve -- community policing initiatives, civilian oversight boards, etc.

by Anonymousreply 220June 7, 2020 6:20 PM

No mention of it on BLM's website, but I thought I'd link anyway because their statement of purpose is gender gender gender gender queer queer queer

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 221June 7, 2020 6:28 PM

After 5 minutes of Googling I've concluded that BLM's leadership have no clue what they want, and aren't coordinating with each other. I think the slogan wasn't supposed to have any actual policy proposal attached to it, it just felt good to shout through a megaphone.

by Anonymousreply 222June 7, 2020 6:30 PM

I see the racist deplorables r221 and r222 are feeling vocal today.

by Anonymousreply 223June 7, 2020 6:37 PM

"Defund the police" is one of those slogans that sounds good in theory and it will appeal especially to far-left wingers but it's not a great idea. I understand why its being proposed but it's not the solution.

by Anonymousreply 224June 7, 2020 6:41 PM

R224, and unlimited, unchecked hundreds and hundreds of billions of $$ in police spending is just fine? And how dare anybody question it?

by Anonymousreply 225June 7, 2020 6:49 PM

[quote] "Defund the police" is one of those slogans that sounds good in theory and it will appeal especially to far-left wingers but it's not a great idea. I understand why its being proposed but it's not the solution.

R224, what does "Defund the police" mean?

by Anonymousreply 226June 7, 2020 6:53 PM

[quote] and unlimited, unchecked hundreds and hundreds of billions of $$ in police spending is just fine?

Defund actually means to completely stop funds. Which is why "Defund the police" sounds like a great slogan but is not appropriate. REDUCTION in funding is not the same thing. I support a reduction in funds.

[quote] And how dare anybody question it?

This wasn't anywhere in what I posted.

by Anonymousreply 227June 7, 2020 7:01 PM

I think even more than limiting funds is a complete restructuring of how the policing institution works. Many countries around the world have intelligent police officers. We need to set the bar higher.

by Anonymousreply 228June 7, 2020 7:03 PM

You can tell trolls have overtaken DL.

by Anonymousreply 229June 7, 2020 7:06 PM

Nobody is calling for the complete disbarment or removal of the police. Nobody is saying that there should not be any police. And finally, nobody is saying that all police are crooked, on-the-take thugs working without morals or ethics. But (and there's always a big but) you have to ask yourself one question: if they can afford tanks, why do they make noises (like we've seen on this thread) suggesting that by cutting the funding for police departments by $1 will the entire system collapse? That rank-and-file cops will refuse to do their jobs (as we're seeing in Buffalo)? By going after the bad cops (who are on the take, crooked, and have no morals or ethics), how is that an attack on the entire force?

I think we should treat cops exactly the way we treat teachers. First: destroy their unions. Their unions have abandoned the purpose of a union and have become defacto crime syndicates and protection rackets. Hand-in-hand with reform part one, single out and remove bad cops. It's not hard to identify a bad cop, but the unions and their fellow officers do everything from look the other way to outright destruction or planting of evidence in order to support a preordained conclusion. When collusion among policemen is found, remove the entire force from the lowliest cadet to the chief. Let's make the idea that we can allow bad apples to protect the "good" cops and avoid overall accountability a thing of the past.

Second, we must shut the pipeline from the military to police forces nationwide. The advantage to police departments from hiring combat veterans is obvious: lower training and recruitment costs and barriers, you get (mostly) men who have good basic education, experience handling guns, stressful situations, and working under deadly pressure. Save for the education, these are also detriments. The military trains soldiers to identify the enemy, single them out, and exterminate them. When former military personnel transition to police work, they are not retrained to identify who the enemy is, how to deal with stressful situations in which the people involved are not enemies, and deadly pressure leads to tragic and unacceptable outcomes. And there is no circumstance whatsoever in which human beings are treated like cockroaches to be exterminated.

Third, institute a nationwide policy regarding hiring, placement and education of police officers. The most basic requirement should be completion of a bachelor's degree with an emphasis in criminal law. Just like teachers, police should be required to attend a specific number of hours of continuing education to maintain their credentials. And there must be complete, thorough and stringent background checks in place to weed out the bad cops, people inclined to engage in illegal or illicit behavior, and miscreants. Ultimately, and I think it goes without saying but since we are were we are because we don't talk about such matters, if a cop is involved in any type of crime, particularly battery and/or spousal abuse, it ends their career, period.

cont'd...

by Anonymousreply 230June 7, 2020 7:18 PM

... cont'd

Fourth, half of the problem we have with cops gone rogue is that there is little punishment or consequence for bad acts and actors. For example, when a policeman is involved in a shooting, they are immediately placed on administrative leave with full pay, benefits and retirement. Let's change this practice to a straightforward one in which a officer involved in a shooting is immediately placed on unpaid leave accompanied by a suspension of their benefits.If they're found innocent of wrongdoing, back pay and benefits can be awarded.

Further, it is a travesty that when a cop is involved in an unjustified shooting, so found by the courts, that the penalties are paid out of public funds; let's change this to require that when a cop is involved in an act which a civil court of law finds culpability, the fine and/or financial settlement comes directly out of the police department's retirement funds. The basic idea is to require that cops have skin in the game, so to speak, which will give them pause before committing an act likely to end in questions regarding propriety and culpability. All it will take is two or three multi-million dollar hits to policemen's retirements and they will suddenly find themselves capable of doing their jobs without resorting to deadly force.

This is all not to say that I don't get it. I do. Policemen are exposed to the worst that society has to offer. That does not mean that the police can become the worse than the people they are charged to protect and serve.

by Anonymousreply 231June 7, 2020 7:18 PM

Heres the thing... when you are dealing with people who are depraved and completely indifferent to societys rules ,you cant "counsel" them out of their mind frame. No matter how many programs you create or how much money you give them,there is a certain segment of society that are pure evil . Many times,for police to be effective against said animals rules may be bent,or even broken. Personally speaking ,if the police have to split some skulls to get those threats to ALL of us off the streets ,more power to them. You have to fight fire with fire is a cliche for a reason. Violence and chaos are all some people understand.Im so torn about this question because Ive been on both sides of the coin. Ive been beaten by police for no reason,Ive been harassed and thrown in jail unfairly ,yet I also know plenty of people whose ONLY fear is of the cops. I know we need them ,and I also know theres a problem with a TINY percentage of them. But let meask you this..If you had to pull a 3 year olds body out of a drainage pipe after she had been raped and murdered,would YOU be the same person you were ?

by Anonymousreply 232June 7, 2020 8:45 PM

[quite]when you are dealing with people who are depraved and completely indifferent to societys rules

Are we talking about civilians or police? Because there’s plenty of those that are police.

by Anonymousreply 233June 7, 2020 8:48 PM

Even in areas where there is police presence, I see graffitti on walls and buildings that are allowed to stay there for weeks.

by Anonymousreply 234June 7, 2020 9:01 PM

Bring back the stocks and public executions!

You silly communist goombas. The police wouldn’t have to be so aggressive (and EXPENSIVE) if our bleeding heart DA’s didn’t give slaps on the wrists and let criminals back out to commit worse offenses, and more frequently.

When you decriminalize drugs, theft (hi San Francisco), and let people walk on property crime, gun possession crime, and hell - even carjackings(!) it only makes things worse.

by Anonymousreply 235June 7, 2020 9:12 PM

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 236June 7, 2020 10:03 PM

MINNEAPOLIS CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS ANNOUNCE INTENT TO DISBAND THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, INVEST IN PROVEN COMMUNITY-LED PUBLIC SAFETY

The move follows the police killing of George Floyd and more than a week of uprisings, where hundreds of thousands of people around the world have protested against police violence, and abusive police responses to the protests.

On Sunday afternoon, a veto-proof majority of Minneapolis City Council members will announce their commitment to disbanding the city’s embattled police department, which has endured relentless criticism in the wake of the police killing of George Floyd, an unarmed Black man, on May 25.

“We’re here because we hear you. We are here today because George Floyd was killed by the Minneapolis Police. We are here because here in Minneapolis and in cities across the United States it is clear that our existing system of policing and public safety is not keeping our communities safe,” Minneapolis City Council President Lisa Bender said Sunday. “Our efforts at incremental reform have failed. Period.”

The City Council’s decision follows those of several other high-profile partners, including Minneapolis Public Schools, and the University of Minnesota, and Minneapolis Parks and Recreation, to sever longstanding ties with the MPD.

The announcement today also arrives after several members of the Council have expressed a complete loss of confidence in the Minneapolis Police Department.

“We are going to dismantle the Minneapolis Police Department,” tweeted Council Member Jeremiah Ellison on June 4, pledging to “dramatically rethink” the city’s approach to emergency response. In a TIME op-ed published the next day, Council Member Steve Fletcher cited the MPD’s lengthy track record of misconduct and “decades-long history of violence and discrimination”—all of which are subjects of an ongoing Minnesota Department of Human Rights investigation—as compelling justifications for the department’s disbandment. “We can resolve confusion over a $20 grocery transaction without drawing a weapon or pulling out handcuffs,” Fletcher wrote.

Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey said last night that he opposed disbanding the police department at a protest organized and led by Black Visions Collective against police violence in the city. That answer earned him a thundering chorus of boos and chants of “Shame!” and “Go home, Jacob, go home!” The New York Times called the scene a “humiliation on a scale almost unimaginable outside of cinema or nightmare.”

“The last Democratic mayor, Betsy Hodges, handled the murder of Jamar [Clark] poorly. We told her she was going to lose her job. And she did,” Miski Noor, a Black Visions Collective organizer, said on Frey’s refusal to disband the Minneapolis Police Department.

Since taking office in January 2018, Frey has overseen reforms to the MPD’s body camera policy that impose harsher discipline on officers who fail to comply, and barred officers from participating in so-called “Bulletproof Warrior” training, which encourages law enforcement to use deadly force if they feel their lives are in jeopardy. The officer who shot and killed Philando Castile during a 2016 traffic stop had attended a seminar two years earlier.

More recently, however, Frey has faced criticism from community groups for supporting increases to the MPD’s budget, and for the city’s failure to invest significantly in community-based public safety programs during his tenure.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 237June 7, 2020 10:09 PM

For years, activists have argued that MPD has failed to actually keep the city safe, and City Councilmembers echoed that sentiment today during their announcement. MPD’s record for solving serious crimes in the city is consistently low. For example, in 2019, Minneapolis police only cleared 56 percent of cases in which a person was killed. For rapes, the police department’s solve rate is abysmally low. In 2018, their clearance rate for rape was just 22 percent. In other words, four out of every five rapes go unsolved in Minneapolis. Further casting doubt on the department’s commitment to solving sexual assaults, MPD announced last year the discovery of 1,700 untested rape kits spanning 30 years, which officials said had been misplaced.

The Council’s move is consistent with rapidly-shifting public opinion regarding the urgency of overhauling the American model of law enforcement. Since Floyd’s killing and the protests that ensued, officials in Los Angeles and New York City have called for making deep cuts to swollen police budgets and reallocating those funds for education, affordable housing, and other social services. Law enforcement officers are not equipped to be experts in responding to mental health crises, often leading to tragic results—nationally, about half of police killings involve someone living with mental illness or disability. As a result, public health experts have long advocated for dispatching medical professionals and/or social workers, not armed police, to respond to calls related to substance use and mental health. Polling from Data for Progress indicates that more than two-thirds of voters—68 percent—support the creation of such programs, versions of which are already in place in other cities such as, Eugene, Oregon; Austin, Texas; and Denver, Colorado.

“Our commitment is to do what is necessary to keep every single member of our community safe and to tell the truth that the Minneapolis Police are not doing that,” Bender said Sunday. “Our commitment is to end our city’s toxic relationship with the Minneapolis Police Department, to end policing as we know it, and to recreate systems of public safety that actually keep us safe.”

by Anonymousreply 238June 7, 2020 10:10 PM

[quote] I've been inching my way to the right for several years now. There seems to be very little tethering me to the left except gay rights and that may not be the most important issue anymore.I

Did your "inching" your way to the right coincide with our first Black president ushering in marriage equality? Are you now content that others should suffer since gays are "free"?

by Anonymousreply 239June 7, 2020 10:19 PM

If we are talking about police budgets, I want to talk about a reduction in the military's budget too. I will also throw in a reduction of salaries in administration in higher education as well.

While people are protesting where I live. Throwing pig heads on people. Throwing lit firecrackers on the police. Besides the rocks, bottles of urine and bricks.

That actually happened to my friend who is a gay cute as hell police officer while he has been working 17 hour days in the main protest area. He had to deal with live fireworks being thrown on him.

Friday night 5 people were shot and 1 person died. Another died after a rolling gun battle in a separate incident. Oh, and a police officer earlier in the week was stabbed by someone suspected to be mentally ill.

That is just off the top of my head of what has gone on while clueless primarily white people from the suburbs have been protesting in my area. (I did actually go down there and observe them earlier this week.)

I feel this place is a safe area to get some things off my chest. I definitely can't post any of this on social media right now.

by Anonymousreply 240June 7, 2020 10:21 PM

ck Wilson Retweeted

PropOrNot ID Service Flag of United States @propornot · 9h One of the first personas to spam the #DefundThePolice hastag, “The People RISING”, appears to have been an IRA-style Russian propaganda outlet.

This dovetails with how Russian propaganda constantly tries to delegitimize US institutions while LOUDLY opposing reforming them

by Anonymousreply 241June 8, 2020 3:55 AM

[quote]The fact that crime is going down is evidence that the police is more effective.

The fact that crime is going down could simply be the result of people committing fewer crimes.

by Anonymousreply 242June 8, 2020 5:14 AM

[quote]you cant "counsel" them out of their mind frame.

Actually, yes you can. It's called de-escalation, and there are proven tactics shown to accomplish this.

[quote]No matter how many programs you create or how much money you give them,there is a certain segment of society that are pure evil

And we call them "the police." We have been fighting corruption, abuse, megalomania, and out-of-control cops for as far back as living memory reaches. We have thrown billions of dollars at the problem. We have given them latitude to correct their problems from within, and to (literally) police themselves. And they have failed miserably, at the expense of incalculable loss, suffering, and innocent lives lost, over and over, nationwide.

Now, the message coming from police departments around the country is one of defiance, treason, authoritarianism and total disregard for the oaths each officer took to "protect and serve." Police departments are defying the governors and mayors who are Constitutionallly bound to lead them. The police have forgotten who they work for, and it's time we told them in no uncertain terms. Note I didn't say "remind them" because this is no time for gentle persuasion. The police have put us in this position. They are not gentle about it. There comes a time when gentle tactics don't work; isn't that what you're saying, R232?

Because when you say

[quote]You have to fight fire with fire is a cliche for a reason.

you are saying that the police should decend to the same level as criminals, which by definition, makes the police criminals as well. When the enforcers are worse than the criminals they are supposedly protecting us from, the whole exercise becomes moot. There is no justification for allowing the police to commit heinous acts, period.

And that's the whole reason we're having this discussion now: the police executed George Floyd on the suspicion of passing a counterfeit $20 bill. He was reported to have been complying with police orders. The video that sparked this unrest shows exactly how this incident transpired, and the civilized world is sitting up in shock, asking why suspicion of commiting a crime (that on its face is laughable; do the police really think one man passing a fake $20 is going to bring about the decline of civilization?) justifies pinning the man down and slowly suffocating him to death.

[quote]But let meask you this..If you had to pull a 3 year olds body out of a drainage pipe after she had been raped and murdered,would YOU be the same person you were ?

Nope, and there are many, many reasons why *I* am not a cop. But that's not the question before us. What you should be asking is "If you had to pull the lifeless body of a grown man, father of two, who was compliant and who begged for his life, up off the street after being tortured to death by state-authorized thugs, would YOU be the same person you were?" because I'm not.

Because I have empathy.

Because I have morals.

Because I can tell the difference between right and wrong.

by Anonymousreply 243June 8, 2020 3:40 PM

How about we keep the police department and bust the police union? Without a union resisting every reasonable effort to address police brutality, and protecting bad cops, the bad cops will pack it up and resign. That leaves the officers who are dedicated to protecting and serving.

Interesting that Republican union-busters like former WI governor Scott Walker NEVER target the police union.

by Anonymousreply 244June 8, 2020 5:46 PM

Glenn Kirschner...

The Time to Reform Policing Practices and Policies is Now.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 245June 8, 2020 5:49 PM

Behind the thin blue line...

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 246June 8, 2020 5:58 PM

I love unions but police unions are the bad guys.

by Anonymousreply 247June 8, 2020 6:04 PM

AP - Officer charged in Floyd's death has 1st court appearance

UPDATE: MINNEAPOLIS (AP) — Judge sets $1 million bail for Minneapolis officer charged with second-degree murder in George Floyd's death.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 248June 8, 2020 6:22 PM

[quote]I love unions but police unions are the bad guys.

I feel the same way. I remember a family friend who worked for a state labor department once made the comment that by the time he retired, he had really mixed views on unions and that he said teacher and police unions were the worst ones. He said that too many awful cops and teachers were protected.

by Anonymousreply 249June 8, 2020 7:48 PM

Unions have been hotbeds for racism for a long time. Not just public ones either. I am for unions but their participation in systemtatic racism should be made clear. It's not a coincidence that outside of the south, the bulk of Geroge Wallace's support was from Northern blue-collar workers in cities. For those who want to read about it unions and racism...

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 250June 8, 2020 7:56 PM

The New York State Assembly just passed the Eric Garner Anti-Chokehold Act.

Using a chokehold now is a Class C felony.

[quote]The "Eric Garner Anti-Chokehold Act," to ban the use of chokeholds by law enforcement and establish the crime of aggravated strangulation, a Class C felony.

Also:

[quote]NYS Assembly just passed a bill that will require law enforcement officers to report any incident where they discharged a weapon near where people could be hit by a vote of 112-32 (does not apply to a shooting range)

The protests are WORKING.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 251June 8, 2020 8:11 PM

On 'Last Week Tonight,' John Oliver helps clarify some issues regarding the 'Defund the Police' Movement:

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 252June 9, 2020 2:12 AM

Here's what the CHAZ (yes, THE CHAZ) have to say about, it's point #1 of 30 on their list of demands for the Seattle city government:

"The Seattle Police Department and attached court system are beyond reform. We do not request reform, we demand abolition. We demand that the Seattle Council and the Mayor defund and abolish the Seattle Police Department and the attached Criminal Justice Apparatus. This means 100% of funding, including existing pensions for Seattle Police. At an equal level of priority we also demand that the city disallow the operations of ICE in the city of Seattle."

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 253June 10, 2020 9:16 PM

That was published Monday night, by the way, and still being reffered to as current by local media.

by Anonymousreply 254June 10, 2020 9:18 PM

In NYC the first units to be defunded are Security Details for the Mayor and City Council members. Why should taxpayers foot the bill to drive politicians' kids back and forth to school?

by Anonymousreply 255June 10, 2020 9:24 PM

I thought the theory was that crime was down because we banned lead in gasoline.

by Anonymousreply 256June 11, 2020 1:29 AM

[quote] the first units to be defunded are Security Details for the Mayor and City Council members

LOS ANGELES – While LA City Council President Nury Martinez was filing a motion last week seeking to cut $150 million from the LAPD budget, she had an LAPD unit standing watch outside her home providing her family with a private security detail since April.

The round-the-clock protection unit, often staffed by two officers, infuriated some members of the police force.

“It’s kind of ironic. Here she is demanding $150 million be reallocated from the police budget, but yet she has security at her house by the Los Angeles Police Department,” said Det. Jamie McBride, who serves as director of the Los Angeles Police Protective League, the LAPD’s union.

by Anonymousreply 257June 11, 2020 4:15 AM
Loading
Need more help? Click Here.

Yes indeed, we too use "cookies." Take a look at our privacy/terms or if you just want to see the damn site without all this bureaucratic nonsense, click ACCEPT. Otherwise, you'll just have to find some other site for your pointless bitchery needs.

×

Become a contributor - post when you want with no ads!