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Russia Trying to Stoke U.S. Racial Tensions Before Election, Officials Say

Just a reminder! From the NYT on March 10:

The Russian government has stepped up efforts to inflame racial tensions in the United States as part of its bid to influence November’s presidential election, including trying to incite violence by white supremacist groups and to stoke anger among African-Americans, according to seven American officials briefed on recent intelligence.

Russia’s lead intelligence agency, the S.V.R., has apparently gone beyond 2016 methods of interference, when operatives tried to stoke racial animosity by creating fake Black Lives Matter groups and spreading disinformation to depress black voter turnout. Now, Russia is also trying to influence white supremacist groups, the officials said; they gave few details, but one official said federal investigators are examining how at least one neo-Nazi organization with ties to Russia is funded.

Russian operatives are also trying to push black extremist groups toward violence, according to multiple officials, though they did not detail how.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 103June 13, 2020 9:57 PM

Based on what I've been hearing, their government should really be focusing their efforts more on their coronavirus disaster over there.

by Anonymousreply 1May 31, 2020 12:51 AM

All of trump's "friends" are such assholes.

by Anonymousreply 2May 31, 2020 12:51 AM

First off, that article is three months old. Secondly, this is what adversaries do. Russia certainly interferes in US electoral process, as the US does to theirs. This is not news. You think China does not interfere in US elections? Japanese and Taiwanese elections? Of course they do.

Sadly, the electorates of most advanced countries understand that this happens regularly. However, Americans gasp when they see it in black and white that it happens to them, too. How indignantly naïve, indeed.

by Anonymousreply 3May 31, 2020 1:04 AM

R3 is a dumb fucking cunt. Go blow your Uncle Vladdy and get the fuck out of here.

It bears repeating and we need reminding in this country because we have too much amnesia around here.

The Russians are continuing to attack the United States in every way they can. They are making the racial violence worse. They are ginning up anger and hate.

They are the deadly enemy of America and of Americans.

by Anonymousreply 4May 31, 2020 1:14 AM

R3, they didn't teach you critical thinking, wherever you were taught.

If an article is three months old and says that seven intelligence officials say Russia is planning to foment racial discord UNTIL THE ELECTION, and that election hasn't happened yet, the information is still relevant.

by Anonymousreply 5May 31, 2020 1:24 AM

R5 no you can’t preemptively shape the news to suit your narrative. Critical thinking requires evaluating evidence.

by Anonymousreply 6May 31, 2020 1:27 AM

R3's analysis is spot on. Intelligent and astute.

While R4 is throwing childish tantrums and trying to blame an endless array of domestic problems (which have been going on non-stop since the 1700s) on an external "enemy". Much easier & lazier to pin the blame on other continents and other countries than have a good hard look at one's own domestic failures.

The deep irony is that the biggest enemy of 'Murica - is 'Murica itself. Reminds me of Ancient Rome - it wasn't the "enemy" (Germanic tribes, Goths, Celts, etc) who fundamentally destroyed that powerful Empire. It was Ancient Rome that systematically ate itself, self-imploding in a glorious dumpster-fire of arrogance and hubris, bitter classist dog-fights between Patricians and Plebeians, internal strife and feuds between the ruling class, and a myopic, narcissistic belief that Ancient Rome is the "most glorious nation that ever existed". But as Ancient Rome was busy burning [italic]itself[/italic] and decaying socially, they of course tried to blame it all on an external enemy, the "barbaric" Goths. Ancient Rome could never face up to the unpleasant reality that the [italic]most fundamental[/italic] cause of its problems was its own national & social degradation - it kept on blaming foreign "enemy" tribes, as it was sinking into a crisis-hole that it dug for itself. History keeps repeating itself.

by Anonymousreply 7May 31, 2020 1:49 AM

How surreal to see a bunch of trolls defend that homophobic shithole Russia. It's almost like they can't help taking the bait every time someone criticizes their precious Russia!

by Anonymousreply 8May 31, 2020 1:56 AM

No one's blaming an "endless array of domestic problems" on Russia. This is a very simple connection of dots in one specific scenario.

- Intelligence leaders say Russia is trying to stoke racial tensions in the US before the 2020 election by supporting white supremacists and their groups.

- Russia organized fake rallies and tried to stir up racial issues during the 2016 election.

- It is now coming to light that white supremacists have joined some of the more violent protests/riots this week.

Just something for thinking people to keep in mind!

by Anonymousreply 9May 31, 2020 2:11 AM

I hate Russians...that's my prejudice and I am sticking with it.

by Anonymousreply 10May 31, 2020 2:14 AM

In 2016 Putty just wanted to destroy Hillary. Now he wants to keep his puppet dictator Dotard in power.

by Anonymousreply 11May 31, 2020 2:22 AM

Well I don't know if they're Russian, Macedonian, or Bhutanese, but there clearly are trolls out in full force all over the internet today, posting all sorts of misinformation, riddled with spelling errors and an appalling lack of basic geographic information about the U.S. cities they purport to be reporting from. They are also not subtle at all. Their claims are so over-the-top hyperbolic as to be easily disproven and disbelieved.

by Anonymousreply 12May 31, 2020 2:35 AM

I don’t know what to say except I wish he and Trump would just die.

by Anonymousreply 13May 31, 2020 2:51 AM

So, incentivizing people to get involved, protest for equality and voting is a bad thing? Lazy, apathetic Americans have always been ridiculed, as they should be. Freedom comes with a price. Maybe we should be thanking the Ruskies?

Go America! Fight the racists.

by Anonymousreply 14May 31, 2020 2:52 AM

Encouraging people to protest peacefully, vote, petition, phone-bank and otherwise engage in the civic processes of government is one thing. Actively lying and trying to instigate or misreport violence and destruction is another thing entirely.

Fortunately, most people are not taking their bait.

by Anonymousreply 15May 31, 2020 3:04 AM

R14, it's not a good thing if they artificially amplify and extend the conflict by encouraging white supremacists to loot and cause violence and destruction during these protests.

Or if they create rallies and protests from Moscow and publicize them on social media while pretending to concerned American citizens (which they did in 2016).

by Anonymousreply 16May 31, 2020 3:06 AM

* - pretending to be concerned American citizens

by Anonymousreply 17May 31, 2020 3:07 AM

Classic Russian Whataboutism, r3 and r7. You cunts are easy to spot. Either you're actual Russian operatives or you're nihilistic dumbasses who have bought into their propaganda. Nice try.

by Anonymousreply 18May 31, 2020 3:08 AM

[quote] Intelligence leaders say Russia is trying to stoke racial tensions in the US before the 2020 election by supporting white supremacists and their groups.

If they are "trying" anything, R9 - then the irony is that they sure don't even need to "try" that hard - they barely even need to lift a finger. [bold]What's happening in MN is not like a "fire" - a more fitting metaphor is it's more like a Volcano erupting due to long-accumulated internal volcanic pressure. You can't "stoke" a VOLCANO that's erupting due to its own internal explosion processes. You can of course throw a match or a lighter into an exploding volcano - but it doesn't actually change much - the volcano would be still be erupting, with or without you throwing your measly match inside.[/bold]

As if Derek Chauvin and the other 3 officers (Tou Thao, Alex Kueng, etc) are Russian. And the police chief and entire police corps of Minneapolis are all ethnic Russians. And the prosecutors who charged Chauvin with a lesser crime (only 3rd degree murder) are Russians too. And any judge who'll potentially grant him early parole in the future is Russian. And the entire Republican Party are all Eastern European Slavs. And half of the CIA and other bureaucratic US offices who support the GOP are all Russians too. And all the people looting shopping malls and convenience stores in MN are Russkies.

The deep irony is that Russia doesn't even need to do much - 'Murica, as always, is doing everything in its power to kick its own head in, based on its own historic, gun-happy craziness. The US of A has always been a fundamentally very violent nation - both domestically and in terms of endless foreign war policy. It's never been a quiet, sleepy place like Switzerland. The Russkies might be stoking something - but the irony is it's irrelevant when 'Muricans are so busy "self-stoking" & setting their own municipal property ablaze, with or without the Slavs.

Summary: If the Slavs never existed - George Floyd would STILL be dead and Minnesota would STILL be burning. Because, with or without the Slavs - the 'Muricans do a stellar job of acting like a deadly lunatic asylum all on their own.

by Anonymousreply 19May 31, 2020 3:30 AM

[quote] What's happening in MN is not like a "fire" - a more fitting metaphor

A more fitting metaphor is a tempest in a teapot. I do feel sorry that you spent quite a bit of time drafting that response, however, R19. I know it must have been a tremendous effort on your part.

by Anonymousreply 20May 31, 2020 3:33 AM

R20, a "tempest in a teapot" is a lovely metaphor - but it means that it's not very important and mostly inconsequential. Well, if you think what's happening in MN and other states is "much ado about nothing" - then problem solved. Congratulations for single-handedly resolving the conflict. Please tell the representatives of the AA community that the whole thing is just "tempest in a teapot" - I'm sure they'll be much relieved to hear this.

If it's just a 'storm in a teacup' though - I do wonder why the military is being called in. After all, it's not as important as people make it seem, eh. Just another prosaic day in 'Murica - move along, folks.

by Anonymousreply 21May 31, 2020 3:42 AM

R21, a tempest in a teapot is a perfect way to describe small scale unrests exaggerrated by strange foreign interests who make up complete lies like saying 'Minnesota is burning' or the country is burning from coast to coast or that a volcano is erupting when most protests have been peaceful and uneventful. It makes one question how these people are such experts or why they take such a vested interest in localized events out here.

[quote] The US of A has always been a fundamentally very violent nation - both domestically and in terms of endless foreign war policy.

Oh, trust me. The U.S. has a long, long, long way to go before getting even close to reaching the type of tribal barbarism or bloodthirst of Europe or Russia or their gory histories. Now those fuckers know how to hate and kill. They've absolutely perfected the art of it over centuries.

by Anonymousreply 22May 31, 2020 4:08 AM

Careful Oleg r19, don't get near any open windows! You don't want your handlers to know you failed.

by Anonymousreply 23May 31, 2020 4:13 AM

This has zero to do with Russia and everything to do with racism, so knock it off.

by Anonymousreply 24May 31, 2020 4:26 AM

R24 did you even read the article? Russia is making a bad situation worse with their disinformation war on America. But nice try with that strawman.

by Anonymousreply 25May 31, 2020 4:31 AM

[quote] a tempest in a teapot is a perfect way to describe small scale unrests exaggerrated by strange foreign interests who make up complete lies like saying 'Minnesota is burning' or the country is burning from coast to coast or that a volcano is erupting when most protests have been peaceful and uneventful.

R22, if it’s such “small-scale, exaggerated unrests” and mostly “uneventful” - then why the heck are authorities calling in the National Guard.

EuroNews (a well-respected news source with its HQ in France): “George Floyd killing: Minnesota to fully mobilize National Guard for the first time since WWII”. “VIOLENT CLASHES took place in cities including New York, Los Angeles, Atlanta, Chicago, Dallas and Houston”.

“Minnesota's State Governor Tim Walz described the situation as “INCREDIBLY DANGEROUS and Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey told citizens there was "no honour in BURNING DOWN your CITY” as firefighters tackled multiple blazes into Saturday morning. Violent clashes continued overnight as thousands ignored a curfew to protest.”

So it’s [italic]US officials themselves[/italic] (not some “strange” external Red Commies) who are talking about “Minnesota burning” and describing the situation as “INCREDIBLY dangerous”. But if you’re claiming it’s “complete lies” - then take it up with ‘Murican officials who are the ones saying it in front of the whole world.

[quote] It makes one question how these people are such experts or why they take such a vested interest in localized events out here.

Because every big world publication from the BBC to EuroNews is currently reporting on it. Welcome to the 21st C, where people live in a fully globalised world and follow and comment on international events, from local elections in Turkey to civil unrest in Hong Kong.

by Anonymousreply 26May 31, 2020 5:39 AM

[quote] The U.S. has a long, long, long way to go before getting even close to reaching the type of tribal barbarism or bloodthirst of Europe or Russia or their gory histories.

Good news: not a “long, long way” anymore :). In its young 243-year-old history, ‘Murica as a state has made “A+” strides in terms of increasingly catching up with its ancestral land (Europe) in terms of casual, laid-back goriness (from testing the Nuclear Bomb on foreign civilians to raining death-bombs on other continents). It is incrementally, year by year, outpacing most of the developed world in terms of trigger-happy annual gore. Give it more time - and by the time the US of A is 500-1,000 years old it (if it survives that long) - it will have a gore rap sheet the length of the Amazon/Nile River. ‘Murica likes to be #Number 1 in everything, after all :).

[quote] Now those fuckers know how to hate and kill. They've absolutely perfected the art of it over CENTURIES.

Well, that’s ironic. Because those “fuckers” in Europe are the [italic]direct[/italic] ancestors and great-great-etc-parents (family) of most 'Muricans. They are an average US resident's direct blood lineage. Gory European Medieval history IS actually American history - that’s where most WASP and even Latino / Spanish ‘Muricans came from. ‘Muricans didn’t just drop down to Minnesota from the planet Saturn :). Many in e.g. MN have roots in warring clans from Scandinavia, etc (who were infamous for their pillaging, raiding and - ironicallly - village-burning skills). Just because some moved away to conquer another continent doesn’t erase the fact that every ‘Murican’s family includes centuries of gore going back to cro-magnon times. 'Murica is the extension of Medieval Europe.

by Anonymousreply 27May 31, 2020 5:49 AM

R27/et al., and what country are you from?

by Anonymousreply 28May 31, 2020 6:02 AM

R28, I grew up all over the place, so it's a long story. Born in the USSR (Kazakhstan, Central Asia), moved to Tyumen (West-Asian part of Siberia), school in Ljubljana (Slovenia - Central Europe, on the Mediterranean), college in London, postgrad in Texas. My family lived an almost nomadic lifestyle, we moved every 5-7 years for work, so it's hard to say which place I feel is my "home". I guess, looking back, I spent more time in London than anywhere else.

by Anonymousreply 29May 31, 2020 6:26 AM

[quote]This has zero to do with Russia and everything to do with racism, so knock it off.

Russia is amplifying the discord — just like they amplified Donald Trump, who fostered the overtly racist environment that led to this.

If you're arguing that Russia has clean hands right now, R24, you can fuck right off.

by Anonymousreply 30May 31, 2020 7:01 AM

[quote] EuroNews (a well-respected news source with its HQ in France):

I don't know what EuroNews is reporting, but as far as the city I'm in, nothing as sensational is happening as you/they make it seem. Unless, by watching second-hand news sources, you think you're in a better position to tell me what's happening here than what I, myself, know?

[quote] . Gory European Medieval history IS actually American history

No, it's not. Europeans certainly don't feel personally responsible or linked to the actions/identities of Americans, and they will be the first ones to tell you that. I don't feel linked to European history, and I'm generationally much closer to it than most Americans (my mother was born in Europe).

[quote] Born in the USSR (Kazakhstan, Central Asia), moved to Tyumen (West-Asian part of Siberia), school in Ljubljana

I'm sorry, but when it comes to gore, cheapness of life, and living in a state of constant brutality, I'm not sure that anybody has done it better than Russia. Mass rape by Soviet troops, famine-genocide, gulags, persecution of ethnic minorites and gay people, a history of serfdom. There is a good reason the Germans were grateful to surrender to the Western powers and not the USSR after the Fall of Berlin. I actually do feel sorry for the Russian people, because theirs has been a tale of uninterrupted tragedy and brutality, but their history doesn't exactly place them in the most optimal position to be handing out scathing indictments on humanitarian crimes.

As for the Balkans -- well, we may experience some riots and hiccups here and there, but at least the U.S. isn't seeing full-on war and ethnic cleansing like they were mired in during the late 1990s. That's just insane that that even happened as recently as it did. Some knuckleheads burning a cop car is preferable to anything remotely close to [italic]that[/italic].

by Anonymousreply 31May 31, 2020 7:40 AM

Americans are the main ones who are "amplifying" Donald Trump, R30. People seem to be forgetting the basic fundamentals: He is American (born and bred), his Cabinet are Americans (born and bred), his millions of stans are Americans, the GOP is a long-standing American Party; the security team, CIA and Pentagon military who are guarding & helping him are Americans.

Trump was born, brought up and educated in the US, the child of German-Americans. He is a direct product of US business & entertainment culture (specifically the Wall St-type reckless culture that started dominating in the US from ca. the 70s onwards) - a simple fundamental that many seem to forget. A television-host populist president and "entertainer" - in a social-media decade where people became overly obsessed with listening to "entertainers" and "celebrities". The Russkies did not create Trump or the GOP - Americans and bizarre American culture did.

I bet the Russkies do try to troll the US election (as payback for the US doing the same in the 90s) - but what they do is pebbles in the grand shape of things. Neither China, Iran, Russia, Palestine, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela or anyone else is strong enough to control the US nation. The US nation is its own master and is (currently at least) the most powerful state in the world, an Empire of sorts - but, ironically, therein lies the whole problem. Because the US empire is often catastrophically trigger-happy and full of myopic self-entitlement, breeding problems for itself.

If the Slavs never existed - and Trump still got elected thanks to the GOP states - I wonder who 'Murica would blame then. It would definitely still find a way to blame someone external for its own chaotic national decisions. Since almost half of voting America elected Trump - then it's fundamentally Murica’s own decision, not any other country’s. Since he got elected because of the electoral college system that favours GOP rural states - then it's Murica’s own fault for creating such a constitutional system.

Without the Russkies - the GOP would still exist. And Trump would still exist. And Wall Street would still exist. And disgruntled American blue-collar workers would still exist (because the usual Establishment in Washington short-sightedly and greedily allowed US corporations to export most of the manufacturing jobs to Asia, for cheap labour - which screwed over and angered local US workers). So those are all American #trademarked domestic creations. With or without the Slavs - you’d still have to face the exact same fundamental dilemmas and crises - because those domestic issues were boiling up for many years and unsurprisingly reached a tipping point sometime after the Economic Recession of 2009 started (which, again, was Murica’s own Wall St catastrophic screw-up).

by Anonymousreply 32May 31, 2020 9:08 AM

Here's a nice glamorous Russian model to distract you.

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by Anonymousreply 33May 31, 2020 10:40 AM

It's bizarre how this one poster with the 700 word posts seems insistent that Russia's intellifence operations in the US hould be totally ignored "because racism already existed".

It's a huge leap of logic and says the person is either not right in the head or is not arguing in good faith.

by Anonymousreply 34May 31, 2020 12:04 PM

R34, I give up on that strange person's convoluted word salad posts and non sequiturs. He certainly does seem incredibly touchy about any criticism about Russia and seems intent on shifting the conversation away from the topic at hand, doesn't he?

by Anonymousreply 35May 31, 2020 1:26 PM

[quote] I don't know what EuroNews is reporting, but as far as the city I'm in, nothing as sensational is happening as you/they make it seem. Unless, by watching second-hand news sources, you think you're in a better position to tell me what's happening here than what I, myself, know?

Happening "here" where, R31/R35? If you live in e.g. Grand Forks, MN - all the news you get about e.g. Minneapolis - or NYC - or Houston - or LA (on the other far side of the continent) are exactly “second-hand news sources” too. Because you can't be physically simultaneously present in all 50 states at the same time - that's what official journalists are for.

And why are you talking just about “your city”, as if that's all that matters - the international news reports are clearly about the riots & protests in various cities now. If some resident of Bisbee, Arizona extrapolates: “Well, no big riots in my town, everything is fine and dandy in my own backyard, so things must be cool everywhere else too” - what's the point of that resident’s self-regarding one-town-only statement. Even the WaPo is reporting: "A night of fire and fury across America as protests intensify". Gee, I guess the WaPo and the NYT are all in cahoots with the Slavs now too, eh?

[quote] No, it's not. Europeans certainly don't feel personally responsible or linked to the actions/identities of Americans, and they will be the first ones to tell you that. I DON'T feel linked to European history, and I'm generationally much closer to it than most Americans (my mother was born in Europe).

There are ca. 740+ million Europeans and no one can say "certainly" what they all "personally feel". But if e.g. Britain didn't feel any "link" to Americans (and the New England colonies that Britain established, which share its language) - then Britain & the US wouldn't have had such a close relationship (but they do). Just like Trudeau & Macron have a close relationship (Francophone countries, part of the same shared heritage). What you "feel" linked to or not is of course your business - but you're still a product / direct offspring of European history (and all the gore that comes with it), whether you like it or not. It's just basic reality, regardless of any personal "feelings".

And I didn't say that modern Europeans are automatically linked to “American actions”. A cousin is not automatically linked to his cousin’s actions across the pond. I said that most Americans are obviously DIRECTLY linked to their own European [italic]ancestors[/italic]. American history IS a continuation of European history via migration, conquest and expansion. Most Americans and Europeans have [italic]shared history[/italic] until relatively recently. Americans speak a European language; the vast majority of Americans look European; most fundamental American laws, institutions and practices are rooted in European origins & philosophies.

It’s not like Americans magically formed from single-cell organisms in the middle of the North American plain :). The only reason you’re alive is b/c your European ancestors historically fought & killed in a very harsh, cut-throat competition for limited resources in Medieval Europe - to ensure that you (their direct descendant-offspring) would live while any enemies died.

by Anonymousreply 36May 31, 2020 2:46 PM

[quote] As for the Balkans -- well, we may experience some riots and hiccups here and there, but at least the U.S. isn't seeing full-on war and ethnic cleansing like they were mired in during the late 1990s.

Oh, come on, R31, you can't be serious :). You’re not “seeing full-on war” - because ‘Murica's Pentagon is simply carrying it out on OTHER continents, usually exclusively against Asia (Vietnam, Korea, Iran, Afghanistan, Iraq) or North Africa (Libya). Making drone-strikes almost exclusively against foreign people of other skin colour is pretty close to partial ethnic cleansing. The US has been in a constant state of de-facto war against brown-skinned Arab or Asian people for most of its modern history.

The US doesn’t need ethnic cleansing domestically - because European-Americans ALREADY secured (via previous wars and ethnic cleansing of indigenuous populations) an overwhelming majority / hegemony, controlling most of the land (ca. 70% of the US population are white-Xtian).

The problem for the Balkans was that Yugoslavia was a Federal Republic consisting of smaller ethnic states and things turned violent when SECESSION started. (If Secession ever started in the US - e.g. if Texas ever decided to just unilaterlly leave - you can bet that fighting would start in the US too). The Federal Republic of Yugoslavia had ca. 37% Orthodox Serbs, 20% Catholic Croats, 9% Muslims, plus some smaller ethnic groups. Most of the Muslims (86% of the country’s Muslims) lived in Bosnia-Herzegovina (one of the sub-states of the Yugoslavian Federal Republic) and in Kosovo (Kosovan Albanians). So basically there was a majority Muslim “sub-state” inside a Xtian Federal Republic. That NEVER ends well. It’s an ethnic-religious powder-keg waiting to explode.

When the break up of the Yugoslavian Federal Union started (the country where I lived, Slovenia, was one of the first to secede from the Union, comparatively more peacefully than others - just 10 days of conflict). Then Bosnia wanted to follow suit and secede as well. But problem was: Bosnia had ca. 44% Muslims (Bosniaks), 33% Orthodox (Serbs), 17% Catholics (Croatians), plus smaller groups. The Orthodox Serbs and the Catholic Croats did not want to end up living in a Bosnian Muslim-majority “brand new country”. Whereas the Bosnian Muslims DID want to secede and establish their own Muslim-majority country.

I’ll try to explain Yugoslavia’s Dilemma using US geography: Texas is about 9% of the US population. Now imagine that 90% of all of America’s Muslims live in Texas (like in Bosnia). So that the make-up of Texas is as follows: 40+% Muslim e.g. Iraqi, 30+% Orthodox (Eastern) Xtian, and 30% Western (Catholic) Xtian. Suddenly, the United States breaks up and Texas decides to leave and establish its own “new country” - a country with almost 40% e.g. Muslim Iraqi population. How do you think the Xtian European-descent population of Texas would react to this? Do you think they’ll just say: “Sure, why not, we’d LOVE to live in a “brand-new” 40%-Muslim Iraqi country”? Do you honestly think you’d never have a war in Texas with such difficult demographic ratios? Of course it could easily lead to full-out internal fighting, just like it did in Bosnia - especially if the biggest community (the Muslim Iraqi-ethnic Texans) declare their wish to secede, while the Xtian European-ethnic Texans protest that they wish to stay with the rest of the US, or want full autonomy from this “new” country themselves. Both groups might then start fighting over which districts, houses & property within Texas should or shouldn’t be part of the “new” country. It was the same with Kosovo (90% Muslim Albanian-ethnic population - which wanted autonomy from Yugoslavia). The US NEVER had to face such difficult tension problems - because the US never had a majority Muslim population in any of its states that wanted full autonomy.

by Anonymousreply 37May 31, 2020 3:10 PM

Blocking the 700-word troll makes this thread much nicer.

by Anonymousreply 38May 31, 2020 4:31 PM

Block away, silly. Don't forget to slap the door theatrically in huffy indignation on your way out.

by Anonymousreply 39May 31, 2020 4:54 PM

Indeed, r38!

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by Anonymousreply 40May 31, 2020 5:03 PM

then word-salad European Russian apologist tosses in a “well, I guess I call London home” as if that somehow will awe us ‘Muricans.

I can smell her stinky foreskin and dirty socks.

by Anonymousreply 41May 31, 2020 6:13 PM

R41 is a silly billy. I have no interest in instilling any "awe" in you (that would be too easy because apparently you think simply living in London is somehow elitist & boastful).

As for the Russkies - go ahead, knock yourself out. My point was that constantly blaming everything on "external enemies" is pointless, because it doesn't achieve anything. George Floyd would still be dead, regardless. The protests against the police, and the opportunist criminal looting would still happen, regardless. Because the root cause of this whole debacle is 'Murican systematic police-force problems. No amount of pointing fingers at foreigners will solve your internal problems - because it's a fundamentally & historically domestic problem.

But apparently you're now afraid of the Russkies even farting in your direction, because their magic farts will immediately "stoke" the US nation into a mad frenzy and the US police force will automatically start shoving their knees into POCs, like on command. If you don't want the Russkies or anyone else to stoke anything, if you're concerned that they're throwing cigarette butts in your direction - then maybe first address the deep-rooted problem that you've drenched your own house in kerosene and handed everyone a lighter.

by Anonymousreply 42May 31, 2020 8:20 PM

tl;dr

by Anonymousreply 43June 1, 2020 12:27 AM

What the fuck is wrong with Russia? Why do they meddle in our affairs so much? They should focus on their own problems, since they have plenty of them.

by Anonymousreply 44June 1, 2020 12:31 AM

Mission accomplished.

by Anonymousreply 45June 1, 2020 12:40 AM

It's true — the comrades Lubyanka Square are toasting each other in another round of champagne this weekend.

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by Anonymousreply 46June 1, 2020 1:01 AM

When I worked at a dance club that featured strippers, a couple of them were from Russia and had Russian girlfriends. What miserable and unhappy cunts they were. Constantly bitching and moaning about the USA but taking advantage of everything that was offered to them. They truly enjoyed white privilege as well and had awful things to say about blacks and Hispanics. Miserable people. Of course, the night I had taken off I missed it when one of the dancers punched his girl in the face for calling someone a faggot. In A GAY BAR. Her boyfriend was BISEXUAL and she knew it. She stuck around because he made excellent money as a stripper and had mob ties and access to drugs. She knew what she was getting involved with. So she decides to call a customer a "leeetle faggott!" and her man punched her in the nose. I hate it when I miss good shit like that. He carried her out to the car and she had tissues stuck up her nose. And I had to miss it, there is no God.

by Anonymousreply 47June 1, 2020 1:22 AM

It's curious, I follow someone on Twitter who is normally a reasonably intelligent guy, but he's been completely silent about the protests while instead ranting for days about how Russians never did anything to interfere with American politics and only Democrats think they did, because they're stuck in a "fantasy world." It's all just another "red scare like in the 1950s" and it's proof that "the Democrats are the REAL far-right political party."

I'm wondering what got all this stirred up lately. Seems almost like a non sequitur with the virus and the protests already occupying most of the news.

by Anonymousreply 48June 1, 2020 1:47 AM

R47 it's the same experience I had with a Russian coworker. He was hyper defensive about Russia, would Whatabout anything, even an innocent joke, and took every opportunity to insult America and the way we did things. They are uniformly a miserable, suspicious people. I know not ALL Russians are terrible but there's a reason, culturally, the way they are.

by Anonymousreply 49June 1, 2020 6:01 AM

[quote] He was hyper defensive about Russia,

I've seen this on other sports forums filled with international posters that I used to post on. Not all, but many Russian posters were very denigrating to other athletes and extremely sensitive to criticism about any athlete from their country. It was very provincial and cult-like.

You can say what you want about DL, but posters here tend to be very self-critical about the U.S. I'm not sure what that tedious windbag upthread was blathering on about.

by Anonymousreply 50June 1, 2020 5:06 PM

[quote] Why do they meddle in our affairs so much?

Because the US and Russia have been engaging in a tit-for-tat chess-game for the past 100 years, that’s why, r44. The US recklessly kicked off this century-long cat-fight by INVADING Russia in 1918 - things went downhill ever since. The Russkies were pissed off that US troops invaded them and tried to meddle in their domestic affairs and quash their domestic revolution. But most US college kids are clueless about this - because Americans don’t bother studying their own foreign-policy history:

[quote] The Nation, March 6, 2019: “The Long History of US-Russian ‘Meddling’. The two governments have repeatedly interfered in each other’s domestic politics during the past 100 years

[quote] The word “meddle” is nebulous and could mean almost anything, but Russiagate zealots deploy it in the most ominous ways, as a war-like “attack on America,” a kind of “Pearl Harbor.” They also imply that such meddling is unprecedented when in fact both the United States and Russia have interfered repeatedly in the other’s internal politics, in one way or another, certainly since the 1917 Russian Revolution. For context, recall that such meddling is an integral part of Cold War and that there have been three Cold Wars between America and Russia during the past one hundred years. The first was from 1917…

[quote] In the period from 1917 to 1933, such interference was extreme on both sides. In 1918, President Woodrow Wilson sent approximately 8,000 US troops to Siberia to FIGHT against the “Reds” [i.e. the US militarily backed the Russian "White" Tsarist group and started meddling] in the Russian Civil War. For its part, Moscow [then paid Woodrow Wilson back in kind via] the Communist International (Comintern) in 1919 and urged the American Communist Party to pursue revolutionary regime change in the United States, an historical analogue of the “democracy promotion” later pursued by Washington.

[quote] During the second Cold War, from 1948 to 1988, the “meddling” was expanded and institutionalized. At least until the McCarthyite attempted purge of such activities, the American Communist Party, now largely under the control of Moscow, was an active force in US politics […]

[quote] In the post-Soviet era since 1992, at least until Russiagate allegations began in mid-2016, almost all of the “meddling” has been committed by the United States. During the 1990s, under the banner of “democracy promotion,” there was a virtual American political invasion of Russia. Washington openly supported, politically and financially, the pro-American faction in Russian politics, as did American mainstream media coverage. US government and foundation funding went to desirable Russian NGOs. And the Clinton administration lent ample support, again political and financial, to President Boris Yeltsin’s desperate and ultimately successful reelection campaign in 1996 [US financial backing helped the incumbent, Yeltsin, win versus the other opposition parties]

[quote] Conversely, there was almost no Russian meddling in American politics in the 1990s, apart from the pro-Yeltsin lobby, largely made up of Americans, in Washington. As for Russia under Vladimir Putin, since 2000, again there was virtually no notable Russian “meddling” in American politics until the Russiagate allegations began [in 2016].

[quote] Not surprisingly, in light of the history of mutual “meddling,” Russian social media were active during the 2016 US election, but with no discernible impact … American meddling in Russia, on the other hand, continued apace, or tried to do so. Until more restrictive Russian laws were passed, US funding continued to go to Russian media and NGOs perceived to be in US interests. Hillary Clinton felt free in 2011 to publicly criticize Russian elections, and, the same year, then–Vice President Joseph Biden, while visiting Moscow, advised Putin not to return to the presidency. (Imagine Putin today advising Biden as to whether or not to seek the US presidency.)

by Anonymousreply 51June 1, 2020 7:15 PM

Final part from The Nation's historical overview of US-Russia mutual meddling:

[quote] "Indeed, the Kremlin may be more tolerant of American “meddling” today than Washington is of Russian “interference.” Maria Butina, a young Russian woman living in the United States, has been in prison for months, much of the time in solitary confinement, charged with “networking” on behalf of her government without having registered as a foreign agent. Hundreds of Americans have “networked” similarly in Russia since the 1990s, myself among them, to the indifference of the Kremlin, though this may now be changing, largely in reaction to US policies.”

So R3 was absolutely correct.

by Anonymousreply 52June 1, 2020 7:22 PM

R51 will you give the Whataboutism a rest already? Russia isn't just doing this in the U.S. They are a failed state run by kleptocrats and the way they stay in power is by trying to make the rest of the world as chaotic and miserable as Russia is. So then they can point and say LOOK IT'S THAT WAY EVERYWHERE.

The Russian state is what will happen to the U.S. if the right wing continues their strategy of demonizing the free press and generating cynicism. We do NOT want to turn into Russia where there is no trust and cynicism rules. THAT is what Russia aims to do to the rest of the world.

by Anonymousreply 53June 1, 2020 7:25 PM

What a shock!

White nationalist group posing as Antifa called for violence on Twitter:

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by Anonymousreply 54June 2, 2020 2:51 AM

R54, if you had bothered reading your own linked article, you’d then realise Twitter’s spokesperson said the misinformation was linked to an AMERICAN anti-Semitic white-supremacist group, whose founder came from the U.S. MARINE CORPS. That group had 3 consecutive leaders - Nathan Damigo from California, Elliot Kline and Patrick Cassey - all born-and-bred Americans.

Thank you for proving my point that Russia doesn’t even need to do much when the U.S. MILITARY does an "A+" job [italic]itself[/italic] of GUN-TRAINING such violent guys with aggressive attitudes like Damigo (whose hate for ‘brown-skinned ethnic people’ exploded after his 2 tours of Iraq, which the US invaded).

You can thank the U.S. Military for turning such young Californian guys into killing-machines in the Middle East (where the so-called “enemy” are all brown-skinned people). And then they return home to California (as morally broken individuals, already accustomed to “killing ethnic brown people” in the ME, still full of residual militaristic-trained hate and PTSD) and then start passing on what they experienced on tour (militaristic violence & a war-shaped ideology of ethnic superiority) to other young civilian 'bros' in their circle of friends:

[quote] The LA Times: “Damigo, a former U.S. Marine Corporal and the Founder of a white nationalist organization [Identity Evropa, now called The American Identity Movement], is part of the so-called alt-right movement.

[quote] [Damigo] mentioned his hometown of San Jose, which, he said, looked much different than when his grandparents moved there decades ago. “The state has just radically changed,” Damigo said. “If you’re white and you live here, it’s like being in a foreign country.”

[quote] He grew up in the Silicon Valley and attended a private Baptist school […] Damigo joined the Marines in 2004, at AGE 18, and did TWO TOURS OF IRAQ. There, he said, he saw firsthand the conflicts between the country’s ethnic and religious groups.

[quote] Damigo lost a few friends to the war, and came back in BAD shape. After his first tour, he tried to commit SUICIDE, but a friend intervened, according to San Diego County court records. In November 2007, he had been home for a month after his 2nd tour of duty and was suffering from severe PTSD, drug and alcohol abuse, paranoia and flashbacks, court records show. A few days after the anniversary of a friend’s COMBAT DEATH, he spent a night drinking and went for a walk with a GUN he’d gotten two days before as a gift. He came across a La Mesa cab driver who he thought was Iraqi, put a gun to his head and robbed the man of $43, records show.

[quote] [He was convicted and imprisoned. While living in prison] he was greatly influenced, he said, by “My Awakening,” the book by former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke … He came out of PRISON with a belief that there is a genetic basis for certain behaviors and intellect, distinguished by race — that a black person is more likely than a white person to be less intelligent and more violent, for example.

[quote] For some time after prison, Damigo led the now-defunct National Youth Front, the youth wing of the nationalist American Freedom Party, which the Southern Poverty Law Center describes as an organization founded by “racist SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA SKINHEADS that aims to deport immigrants and return the United States to white rule.” [Then] Damigo founded “Identity Evropa”, which bills itself as a “generation of awakened Europeans” who “oppose those who would defame our history and rich cultural heritage.” Among the application questions for Identity Evropa is whether applicants are “of European, non-Semitic heritage.”

by Anonymousreply 55June 2, 2020 5:35 AM

R55 You're so mypoic with your statements. You lost the argument a long time ago despite your many, many attempts to innundate us all with lengthy posts. I'm having a hard time understanding what your game is here, but you seem far, far too invested in this for any logical, sane person - unless you are being paid to spread propaganda.

by Anonymousreply 56June 2, 2020 5:55 AM

[quote] It's bizarre how this one poster with the 700 word posts

[quote] Blocking the 700-word troll

[quote] tl;dr

[quote] innundate us all with lengthy posts

Oh, I'm [italic]so[/italic] sorry, R43 / R56, etc. I forgot that you prefer ‘Twitter-style, super-short, 140/280-character catchy soundbites’ - easily digestible, like baby food and dumbed down for mass consumption. You’re right - reading anything longer than a Tweet is too “hard”. It requires one to think more and ponder more - and that’s way too challenging for a lazy mind.

Based on how much you repeatedly complain about my word count, I guess your brain catches fire the second anything you read passes the Twitter-approved character-number mark :). Well, fine, have it your way, you got what you wanted - a POTUS who loves to tweet 140-word simple soundbites. Congratulations.

Btw, I love how you grandiosely announced that you "blocked" me on Sunday - and yet here you are, still reading and replying and complaining about my 'non-Twitter-formatted' word count. Lol.

by Anonymousreply 57June 2, 2020 6:43 AM

I think the vast majority of trolls nowadays are self-appointed and not paid at all.

Russia has been meddling in U.S. race relations since before WWII. That's just historical fact. Anyone who says otherwise is lying, full stop.

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by Anonymousreply 58June 2, 2020 10:37 AM

[quote] I know not ALL Russians are terrible but there's a reason, culturally, the way they are.

Eating raw onions like apples.

by Anonymousreply 59June 2, 2020 10:50 AM

R53, an overview of the historical root of a problem is not “Whataboutism”. No wonder that so many people in the US are so clueless about history and geography - because apparently for them literally everything that doesn’t fit their narrow-box, one-sided world view is “whataboutism”.

[quote] Russia isn't just doing this in the U.S.

And the US isn’t just doing it in Russia either. You deserve each other.

[quote] They are a failed state run by kleptocrats

You don’t even know the definition of the words you’re using. Russia is not a “failed state”. Definition of a failed state = “A state whose political or economic system has become so weak that the government is NO LONGER in control”. Do you even understand what you’re saying? Or did you just hear a ‘fancy politcal-science word’ somewhere - like a word of the day - and you’re still trying to figure out how to use it in a sentence? Example of a real “failed state” - Libya, after the US meddled and recklessly pushed it into total collapse.

And you naïvely think the US isn’t run by "kleptocrats"? A system where politicians bail out Wall St banks using taxpayer money (in a crisis created by Wall Street’s own avarice & greed) - and then, in return, those same banks partially transfer that taxpayer money to the politicians’ private pockets as ‘kickbacks’ via multi-million-dollar lecture “payment fees”. Eastern European kleptocracy is crude and direct. American kleptocracy is very ingenious and intentionally indirect (so that many ordinary people, from a non-financial background, would be none the wiser).

Anyway, if Russia had been a “failed state”, then why do you fantasise that they managed to control, manipulate and determine literallly everything in US politics? If they had been a “failed state” - then they hold no significant or decisive power, neither in domestic nor in foreign matters.

Ironically, the US seemed to prefer Russia (and most other developing countries that the US invaded) to be “failed states”. POTUS Bill Clinton was (unsurprisingly) a big fan and financial supporter of Yeltsin, a controversial incompetent who allowed oligarch-tycoons free reign and drove that country into economic crisis. Bill Clinton controversially called Yeltsin ‘a great guy’ and told Deputy Secretary of State Strobe: “I want this guy [Yeltsin] to win [his re-election] so bad it hurts”.

[quote] and the way they stay in power is by trying to make the rest of the world as chaotic and miserable as Russia is.

There’s no need to project. Russia is objectively quite stable right now. You might not like their relative stability - but it’s definitely not “chaotic”. Russia was “chaotic” in the early 90s (and POTUS Bill Clinton was actually quite ok with that). As for misery - well, the world is in the middle of a Global Pandemic, so it’s not Russia’s fault that everyone is miserable right now.

The world was chaotic and miserable long before the Russkies even existed. Chaos and misery in this world (ca. 195 countries) does not hinge on them.

They weren’t the ones who created an economically poor, long-disenfranchised black minority in the US, or the excessively trigger-happy U.S. cop culture amid a gun-worshipping population.

by Anonymousreply 60June 2, 2020 11:20 AM

[quote] So then they can point and say LOOK IT'S THAT WAY EVERYWHERE.

In terms of the current situation, I doubt they’re pointing at the US and saying “look it’s that way everywhere”, r53. The US is actually an [italic]outlier[/italic] right now - one of the few nations in the world that decided to riot AMID A GLOBAL VIRUS PANDEMIC. Most of the world is not crazy enough to have various protests and clashes with the police while a deadly Pandemic medical emergency is still not under control. Hospitals are still trying to cope and free up hospital beds & ventilators for covid-19 patients. Now is not the time to put more pressure on emergency medical services and on doctors.

But apparently even left-wing ‘Muricans don’t care about the global pandemic anymore. All the talk about “staying home / social-distancing to save millions of elderly and immune-vulnerable people” went in one ear - and out the other.

[quote] The Russian state is what will happen to the U.S. if the right wing continues their strategy of demonizing the free press and generating cynicism.

No, if the incumbent (very anti-socialist) GOP party continues steering the US state - you won’t turn into the Russian state. The Russian state still has many socialist policies like universal healthcare and partially subsidised higher education. In fact, the US probably won’t get any European-type socialist policies like universal healthcare even under Biden.

As for “demonizing the free press” - that’s ironic, because currently there’s a whole group of progressive U.S. politicians & intellectuals trashing a NYT editor and even calling for him to be “fired” because he simply approved a short headline that the progressives deemed too anti-riot and too favourable towards their direct competition (the conservatives). The NYT immediately caved in to the politicians’ demands and changed its headline.

So everybody loves the idea of a “free press”- until that “free press” writes anything in support of your direct competition. As soon as that happens, even leading progressives now immediately trash that so-called “free press” and treat them like ideological traitors that need to be edited out.

“Cynicism” is the belief that people are ultimately driven by personal self-interest. That everyone, including various Media Corporations, pursues certain self-interests. I don’t know why that surprises you - self-interest is the cornerstone of Capitalism and organised US Lobbying. It’s also pretty obvious that most big US and international Media organisations are located on certain parts of the political spectrum bias. E.g. the NYT leans more to the left in terms of social policy, The Guardian is even more left-wing, almost soft-socialist, the Telegraph (nicknamed the Tory-graph) is usually more conservative-leaning, Fox is more conservative, etc.

As for “nihilism” (which you mentioned earleir) - no, nihilism is the belief that life is meaningless and nothing should be changed. Saying fundamental facts like that ”US problems have inherently US roots” is not nihilism - it’s Practical Thinking. It means you have to fix those root causes instead of going on a wild-goose chase, running around in circles after Russkie phantoms on MySpace. If the US had addressed its internal problems decades ago (e.g. police recruitment reform; prison reform; stopping the deployment of generations of young guys to endless wars against ethnic ‘darker-skinned’ countries) - then this current clusterfuck may have been averted.

by Anonymousreply 61June 2, 2020 11:26 AM

The article you linked, R58, actually comes to a very reasonable conclusion (which you forgot to mention):

[bold]The Atlantic: “This time, Americans can stop blaming the Russians and look at ourselves for what we do to fan the flames - to a far greater extent than the Russians ever could or do. “If there’s anyone to blame, it’s us,” says Sipher."[/bold]

by Anonymousreply 62June 2, 2020 12:00 PM

Freak agenda poster, you realize I'm not reading your long rants anymore, right? You are arguing disengenuously and you CLEARLY have an agenda to show Russia as some bastion of peace, democracy, and stability, which we all know is total bullshit.

Cut and paste more of my posts though! Maybe you will learn how to make short, succinct points, rather than overpowering whoever you are speaking to with your blather.

by Anonymousreply 63June 2, 2020 3:36 PM

I stopped paying attention to that condescending windbag desperately trying to make 'Murica" and "US of A" happen, peppered with his insertion of weird smiley emojis. Can't believe he's still at it. I think he was deeply wounded by my comment about the ethnic cleansing of Slavs in the Balkans for whatever reason. That's the only thing that could explain that mess of a post that followed, where he thought he was trying to educate on things already known. I tuned out from reading his high school sophomore essays afterwards.

by Anonymousreply 64June 2, 2020 4:04 PM

R63 = gets triggered by anything longer than a Tweet. His impressive brain faculties find anything longer than a Haiku poem (3 lines of 17 syllables) way too "overpowering". Loves to use poli-sci terminology like “failed state” incorrectly. Pretends not to read my posts - and yet still replies to my posts. Maintains that being cynical is somehow bad and ‘un-American’ - but ironically engages in automatic blanket cynicism that anyone who dares challenge him has an agenda. (I hope that is “succint” enough for you, R63).

R64 = gets strangely cranky over smiley emojis. Here you go, dear - :) :P. Also, strangely thinks that anyone who lived in Slovenia would be somehow "wounded" by Balkan wars in Bosnia (a different area). Seems to have only a very vague understanding of world geography therefore. Calls the current protests & riots “a tempest in a teapot” (meanwhile journalists get permanently blinded by pellets in the eye, and police got shot in the head).

by Anonymousreply 65June 2, 2020 9:06 PM

Ignoring the freak Russian propagandist (or including him as an example), it's pretty clear that Russia has been amplifying the unrest through social media and other platforms. I hope that Twitter (I've given up on Facebook) is all hands on deck trying to clear the inflammatory fake bullshit the Russian agents (they're more than trolls) are spreading.

by Anonymousreply 66June 2, 2020 9:14 PM

[quote] has been "amplifying the unrest" through social media

R66 - show me U.S. Police Officers who magically & suddenly became "amplified violent" simply "because of Twitter".

But, sure, go ahead - try to fix the LONG-STANDING problem of Police Brutality by .... fixing Twitter.

I love how US citizens created one of the most pugnacious Militaries in the world (constantly at war, recruiting thousands of guys to be deployed to routinely kill “brown-skinned" “enemies”) - and then suddenly act ‘all surprised’ when this long-trained Jingoism finally trickles down into their own domestic Police Force. A Police Force which is fed by ex-Military culture and its command-styles, and too often excessively roughs up people for any minor infraction or even pacifist resistance.

The BBC reported yesterday about the protests: “Dozens of journalists covering the protests … have reported being targeted by U.S. SECURITY FORCES using tear gas, rubber bullets and pepper spray.”

Gee, I guess “Russia” now controls U.S. SECURITY FORCES.

When you have U.S. Police & Security Forces [italic]physically manhandling[/italic] even passively protesting citizens and reporters - then, no, it’s not the Russkies, but the American police & military who are “amplifying” this - through the use of totally unnecessary and excessive [italic]physical force[/italic].

Yesterday, Australian news recorded US Police HITTING AUSTRALIAN accredited reporters right in the stomach. What have the Aussies ever done to you to deserve this? So don’t tell me the US Police are hitting Australian crews because of “Twitter” or “the Russkie Reds”.

The real entity making a “bad situation worse” is your own crazy-aggressive Police Force & Military.

The only practical solution is that your Police & Security forces need mandatory Anger Management Classes and police-procedure reform:

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by Anonymousreply 67June 3, 2020 9:57 AM

Here's an interesting article outlining some of the issues with Russia today!

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by Anonymousreply 68June 3, 2020 1:20 PM

Here's Russia trying to make the pandemic worse for the world. Why? Because they want to turn the rest of the world into Russia.

---

The European commission’s chief spokesperson on foreign and security policy, Peter Stano, said there had been an increase in “disinformation, misleading information, outright lies and wrong things” since the start of the outbreak.

The commission had noticed, he said, an increase in disinformation from Russia, providers based in the country and those with links to pro-Kremlin sources.

One conspiracy theory aired on Kremlin-backed Sputnik radio in February drew a parallel between the 19th-century opium wars and coronavirus, implying that “England” and unnamed “international organisations” were seeking to control Chinese internal affairs, just as the British empire forced China to open its markets and cede territory at gunpoint.

Meanwhile, the website Ria Fan claimed that a “false panic” about Covid-19 would benefit pharmaceutical companies looking to make “lucre” from the virus. And against a soundtrack of menacing music, Ren TV’s Military Secret documentary claimed the virus could be a “biological weapon” disseminated by US special forces in China.

Researchers at Cardiff University’s centre for crime and security research, who carried out research with the commission, found an evolution in tactics by pro-Kremlin media.

Rather than authoring disinformation, Russian sources were amplifying theories that had originated elsewhere, such as China, Iran or the US far right, the researchers said. “This tactic allows them to avoid the accusation of creating disinformation themselves, claiming instead that they are merely reporting what others are saying,” the report stated.

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by Anonymousreply 69June 3, 2020 1:37 PM

Russians are horribly racist towards people of color. They encouraged black Americans to emigrate to the then-Soviet Union to escape the soul crushing segregation at the time, but it was, pun intended, just switching masters. Rollie James interviewed a black woman who wrote a book about the black experience in Communist Russia. She relayed one story about how a local Moscow bartender in the thirties would call his black patrons his brothers and sisters, but would always make them use the same glasses whenever they came to his bar. And African students are constantly harassed and mistreated by cops, skinheads and regular citizens. But they love to make disparaging comments about American racism.

by Anonymousreply 70June 3, 2020 3:57 PM

Well, duh. It's an election year and Putin is doing his best to exploit any potential powder keg to keep his assets, Trump and the GOP, in power.

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by Anonymousreply 71June 3, 2020 4:29 PM

[quote] But they love to make disparaging comments about American racism.

Well, should they make [italic]complimentary[/italic] comments about American racism instead, R70? Ok, feel free to send them that correction.

[quote] racist towards people of color. They encouraged black Americans

J’adore that you automatically equate “people of color” only with “black”. Why even bother using the multi-layered term “PoC” then.

[quote] one story about how a local Moscow bartender in THE thirties

You’re trying to say something about the Slavs - but your immediate go-to example is a story about a bartender from the... 1930s?? How modern. I’m a bit dissapointed that you didn’t follow it up with: “Lenin, Trotsky and Berry Lawson walk into a bar…”

But, fine, if you want to discuss “the 1930s” - let’s discuss.

In terms of the 1930s, the Soviets were far ahead in terms of race-relations progress compared to the US. Because the Union was comprised of 15 Republics (both Caucaisan/European ones and Asian ones). The Soviets at least attempted to teach multi-racial cooperation and coexistence based on Karl Marx’s socialist ideas, with some success. This was way ahead of its time - b/c “in the thirties” Western Europe was busy descending into Aryan-race dogma (and not just Germany, btw) and the US was still busy playing with Jim Crow laws.

The Union even accepted as their Top Head of State a politician who was non-Russian-ethnic (Ioseb Besarionis dzе Jugashvili, a Middle-eastern-looking Georgian-ethnic candidate who spoke with a thick Georgian foreign-sounding accent). This was almost unprecedented at the time. (That decision didn’t turn out well in hindsight - but the fact that most of the Union didn’t care that he wasn’t Russian-ethnic & that he couldn’t even speak Russian without an accent - was, in and of itself, suprisingly progressive). To put this into context: it would be like the United States suddenly accepting as its Head of State in the 1920s/30s - a Latino (who’d speak English with a thick Spanish accent).

The Russkies made other surprisingly progressive racial appointments as well during their history. For example, before black slavery was even abolited in the US - the Russkies had already appointed a freed African slave as their General-in-Chief (and granted him nobility status). His bi-racial son was appointed as the Head of their Naval Forces. Again, such appointments were almost unprecedented in the world at that time. Nowadays, the Head of their Ministry of Defence, in charge of their entire armed forces, is a bi-racial PoC as well (Shoygu).

[quote] black Americans to emigrate to the then-Soviet Union to escape the soul crushing segregation at the time, but it was, pun intended, just switching masters.

While they faced discrimination everywhere, they were in far more lethal danger from the US - as evidenced by MLK's assassination and the infamous US-sponsored assassination of Patrice Lumumba (Congo’s first African-elected Prime Minister and national symbol). Lumumba was fighting for Congo’s independence from colonialist Belgium. (Belgium’s leader was the most violently white-supremacist of all the colonialists in Africa). But the US supported white-supremacist Belgium and helped organise Lumumba’s assassination. As a result, Congo collapsed into mayhem. So I really don't think it was a case of "just switching masters".

by Anonymousreply 72June 4, 2020 2:52 PM
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by Anonymousreply 73June 4, 2020 2:54 PM

[quote] “trying to make the pandemic worse for the world.”

R69 apparently thinks you can catch COVID-19 from reading the Daily Mail. “Making the pandemic worse” in practical terms means increasing the world’s infections.

You’re beginning to sound like Trump about China. They closed their borders, along with most of Asia, to decrease the spread of infections. They did what they were supposed to do. (Unlike Sweden, etc - and now the US that decided to throw ALL CAUTION to the wind and protest en masse amid a Global Pandemic).

What’s “making the pandemic worse for the world” is stubborn people gathering in hippie-Kumbaya crowds of thousands during a pandemic (in breach of medical warnings - which have been explained to everyone, over and over and over: “Stay home if possible. Save lives”). Even a peaceful gathering of hundreds of people is TOO EARLY. And that’s exactly what medical experts said - but apparently regular people (even progressives who usually listen to scientists) don’t give a heck anymore. So then what’s the point of putting on a flimsy mask; meeting up with 5,000 people in breach of medical advice; merrily infecting or re-infecting others (all by one’s own choice) - but then coming home and wringing your hands about what the Russkies scribble on Reddit.

Also, from your linked article:

[quote] “Rather than authoring disinformation, Russian sources were amplifying theories that had ORIGINATED ELSEWHERE, such as China, Iran or the US far right, the researchers said.”

So if the Russkies aren’t “authoring” - they’re just repeating what the US, China and Iran say themselves. This seems to have started when a spokesman for China's Foreign Ministry proclaimed not long ago that the US army brought the virus to China in the first place. Either after or before that, POTUS tweeted that the virus is a result of the malfeasance of the Chinese government and was potentially made in a Chinese lab. So, basically both super-powers ‘exchanged pleasantries’ and very publicly and OFFICIALLY pointed the finger at each other and mutually broadcast these conspiracy theories to the world. And I bet the Russians sided with China in this spat.

by Anonymousreply 74June 4, 2020 4:18 PM

Oops! Just Russia being Russia. Sounds like drunk Russians at the helm again.

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by Anonymousreply 75June 4, 2020 4:58 PM

Putin officially declaring himself dictator for life

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by Anonymousreply 76June 4, 2020 4:59 PM

No one asked you r72. Snide cunt.

by Anonymousreply 77June 4, 2020 5:44 PM

And only pussies start a sentence with j’adore...

by Anonymousreply 78June 4, 2020 5:45 PM

Is this what is behind all the mystery men dressed in black that appear to be from another country? They are breaking out windows and causing chaos while trying to stir up divisions.

These people need to be unmasked.

by Anonymousreply 79June 4, 2020 5:51 PM

R70 Don't forget Russians' horrible mistreatments of gays and lesbians. LOL at the trolls defending that piece of shit country. They're not even trying to hide anymore.

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by Anonymousreply 80June 4, 2020 5:56 PM

And sure as shit, one of the trolls will respond to my post at R80 with whatabout this other country? Whatabout USA? Whatabout this, whatabout that? Just watch and see.

by Anonymousreply 81June 4, 2020 5:57 PM

totally, right wing militants have already been directly connected to russian agents

and why the fuck was that russian cunt working for the NRA and standing in the white house all the time?

by Anonymousreply 82June 4, 2020 6:01 PM

Ukraine, people.

Ukraine, Ukraine, Ukraine!!!

That was the rehearsal.

So if you want to know what to do next, please see Ukraine.

by Anonymousreply 83June 4, 2020 6:03 PM

"R80, Russia is a paradise compared to the Middle East as far as how gays are treated!"

"Muslims slaughter gays night and day there!!!!!!"

(You KNOW those type of posts are coming...)

by Anonymousreply 84June 4, 2020 6:03 PM

R81 there's mostly just one poster who is filling the thread with Whataboutisms. He clearly has an agenda.

by Anonymousreply 85June 4, 2020 6:05 PM

Russia pad that cop to murder George Floyd

by Anonymousreply 86June 4, 2020 6:09 PM

The 700-word posting troll is tedious as fuck with his pro-Russia boner.

by Anonymousreply 87June 4, 2020 6:22 PM

Call me crazy, but these people all dressed in black and hiding from the cameras seem like trained cells to me.

They professional maneuvering and the expensive equipment and gear? Who is putting up the money for this?

by Anonymousreply 88June 4, 2020 6:25 PM

Russia doesn't need to stoke racial tensions when we have Agent Orange doing it all.

by Anonymousreply 89June 4, 2020 6:34 PM

[quote]And you naïvely think the US isn’t run by "kleptocrats"?

Sorry R60, but that statement [italic]is[/italic] a classic piece of Russian whataboutism.

So I take it that, by instead trying to shift the subject to the US, you do not contest that Russia is run by kleptocrats.

Americans don't call everything 'whataboutism' - just the whataboutism, at those points when trolls attempt to utilize it.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 90June 4, 2020 6:38 PM

Men in black. Who could thy be?

All those suits and masks don’t come cheap!

by Anonymousreply 91June 4, 2020 6:51 PM

R80/R81 lacks logic skills:

OP’s argument: Russia is trying to worsen race relations inside the US

My argument: Race relations in the US were worsened by the excessive force (brutality) habitually used by its OWN police force, staffed & trained by Americans. Trying to shove part of the blame on “foreign phantoms” is irresponsible and lazy.

If the authorities had responded dutifully, arrested the 4 cops involved in that reported murder and charged them properly (not simply with a jawdroppingly trivial 3rd-degree “unintentional” murder charge) - the protests wouldn’t have happened. If the police hadn’t randomly pepper-sprayed, hit, and shot pellets at even peaceful protesters & accredited reporters - the masses wouldn’t be so bitter at the cops. So the situation was worsened daily by US police. Unless of course you believe Russia brain-controls the U.S. police force.

R80’s apparent rejoinder thought-process: No, you’re wrong! Russia is involved in blowing up RACE (Caucasian and African) relations in Minnesota - because… umm… oh, wait, I know! Because they’re homophobic! So don’t dare question my “Red Menace” conspiracy theory about police brutality inside the US! Because we all know race = sexuality. They’re homophobic and… and… therefore trying to get Caucasians and African-Americans to suddenly protest against Caucasian cops! Because AAs are all bisexual - and the Reds hate inter-racial gay pron!

The fact that the Russkies are homophobic is a non-sequitur, R80. It doesn’t prove this thread’s (ironically) Trumpian idea that a situation was magically made worse “because of evil foreigners”. All it proves is that some Americans don’t want to take full national responsibility for any mattter, EVEN domestic police matters.

It’s always: “Well, I’m just a little bit guilty - but look over there, the [insert any random foreign “enemy nation”] - they’re the ones [italic]really[/italic] controlling & worsening everything [italic]inside[/italic] the US! It’s not fully the fault of our patriotic police or patriotic citizens! No, sirree! We would never go that far if it wasn’t for those “evil foreigners”.

by Anonymousreply 92June 4, 2020 8:57 PM

Oh - WAIT - that’s Whataboutism, right, R85? Saying that a US domestic problem is exacerbated daily by… US police officers, American citizens and American parties themselves?! *Gasp* Omg, I’m sorry. I should have said: “Well, of course if something unseemly, violent or embarassing happens inside the US - [italic]must[/italic] be those darn ex-Commies or [insert name of “foreign enemy du jour”] stoking the fire again!”

“The US of A cannot shoulder the full responsibility or blame for its own internal police culture & policies! Every time its policies, lack of reforms, etc lead to the proverbial shit hitting the fan, it’s always a VICTIM of foreign manipulation! Even when it does criminal & brazen things against its own citizens - it’s important to remember that ‘Murica is still a perpetual VICTIM of “more evil foreigners”.

by Anonymousreply 93June 4, 2020 8:58 PM

So far they're doing a really good job. Perhaps we should consider hiring them to run our country.

by Anonymousreply 94June 4, 2020 8:59 PM

[quote] that statement is a classic piece of Russian whataboutism.

No, R90, do follow threads. The statement I replied to was actually (ironically) CLASSIC Whataboutism. That poster’s statement started off by criticising “Whataboutism” - but then descended into Whataboutism itself:

[quote] will you give the Whataboutism a rest already? … They are a failed state run by kleptocrats

“But What About - The Kleptocracy?!!”. Kleptocracy has nothing to do with the Minnesota protests, or Chauvin, or race relations, or international relations. It’s a completely irrelevant Whataboutism and Non-Sequitur to my post before it. Because “kleptocracy” has no bearing on foreign affairs. The mere absence of “kleptocracy” is not a guarantee of anything. For example, let’s say a foreign country doesn’t have kleptocracy. Let’s say it’s some kind of ideally organised government. And then its population democratically and fairly - votes for war with the US. The goverment, being an efficent, ideal government, carries out the democratic mandate (the will of the people). Would that be any better than a kleptocratic state? What practical difference (for the US) does it make if the foreign country is run by one or the other? Non-kleptocratic does not automatically mean amicable. Since the poster sent me a Whataboutist post - I replied with the same.

by Anonymousreply 95June 4, 2020 10:09 PM

I [italic]have[/italic] followed the back-and-forth of this thread, R95. What all of your posts have in common is defense of Russia, trying to downplay its attacks on the US, and offering up 'whataboutism,' in an attempt to divert to the flaws of the US .

by Anonymousreply 96June 4, 2020 10:23 PM

R96, the paradoxical irony is that you tacitly support the use of Whataboutism ("But what about our “foooreeeign eneeemies!”) to exactly "divert from the domestic flaws of the U.S.".

The [italic]whole[/italic] reason for anti-police protests was “domestic flaws in the U.S.”. So the irony must be lost on you: a DOMESTIC, deeply-systematic, recurrent police situation happens in the US (a situation that has been repeating in the US nearly every decade or so since time immemorial) - and some people’s IMMEDIATE response is ‘But What About Russiaaaaa!”.

Because such Whataboutism is useful to some Americans - it saves them from the ‘inconvenient burden’ of INTROSPECTION. When you have a foreign scapegoat to blame - you then don’t have to dig as deep into yourself.

Instead of pondering practical things and ‘uncomfortable introspective truths’ (e.g. asking yourself: “How has our increasing Militarisation as a nation over the past decades led to an overly Militant Police Force?”; “Has our long-standing Demonisation of any ‘socialist-type’ work-assistance policies, & the decision to close factories & move them abroad - led to a marginalised, bitter, disaffected, often unemployed lower working class, who vent their frustration & disillusionment via criminal behaviour?”) - instead of dealing with those fundamental practical questions, you’re chasing after “Red Ghosts” in the vast digital no man’s land of Reddit.

[quote] trying to downplay its attacks on the US

What “attacks”. The protests only started last week - and you’re immediately quick to brand it an “attack” by foreigners. You’re trivialising the word “attack” - if the Russkies fart in your direction, that’s not an “attack”. Posting anything on Twitter - is not an “attack”. But I guess everything now is “an attack” according to ‘professional victim’ culture, where some people even rely on ‘safe spaces’ and ESAs (emotional support animals) to cope.

So if you want to blindly embrace the perpetual “Red Menace by foreigners” narrative - go ahead. But be careful of over-playing it. Because, god forbid, Americans are ever actually responsible for their own domestic actions! God forbid that something that a Russkie wrote on Reddit - did not have any PRACTICAL effect on the already-militaristic US Police Force. God forbid that something an ex-Commie wrote on Instagram - did not ‘magically’ turn a law-abiding, upstanding American citizen into a criminal, law-breaking looter.

by Anonymousreply 97June 5, 2020 11:45 AM

Is r95 Johnny Weir? No one has their tongue stuck up the butt of Mother Russia like our Johnny.

by Anonymousreply 98June 5, 2020 1:20 PM

hmmm

by Anonymousreply 99June 7, 2020 11:09 AM

I can’t stand Russians.

by Anonymousreply 100June 13, 2020 12:47 AM

They are truly the worst.

by Anonymousreply 101June 13, 2020 3:07 AM

Did you SEE how many threads are flooding DL today with divisive bullshit and 2015 distraction bumps now that Muriel is off for the weekend?

It may be anti-Trump. It may be anti-black. It may be racist or it may depict racism.

But ALL of it divides Americans in a way that destroys progress, political unity, law and order.

ALL OF THIS SERVES VLADIMIR PUTIN AND HIS RUSSIAN MAFIARCHS.

#AllLivesMattertoRussianConquest

by Anonymousreply 102June 13, 2020 9:01 PM

R102 the Neverending "Karen" poster definitely has an agenda.

by Anonymousreply 103June 13, 2020 9:57 PM
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