Barbara Stanwyck.

She may as well be the DL Eldergays’ spirit animal in this scene.

I don't think she's the greatest screen actor of all time but she is absolutely one of my favorites. She had a naturalness and authenticity that the other actresses of her era rarely had. The way she spoke was part of it--no phony, elegantly pronounced line readings, which was the custom it seemed; she was sexual, funny, and totally real.

And she was an incredible pro who knew the names of all the crew people and even their families.

Love her.

Amazing actress. Nobody opens the doors like her

R2 As I’ve read/heard it, when the movie industry was developed, it naturally acquired acting talent from the stage. Early on, films were silent and so the movements were exaggerated to convey emotion. Then when “talkies” developed, the melodramatic histrionics—think of Bette Davis throwing herself against the arm of a sofa to dramatize ‘distraught!’—carried forward, while the theatrical training of projecting ‘big’ emotions for the back row did, as well. Then that became the norm for movies. And then some revolutionaries like Marlon Brando came along and chose to act as if they were not acting and everyone eventually realized that the less-performed style was more convincing up close and magnified on the big screen.

To me, one of the things that makes Bette Davis a remarkable actress is that young Bette can be seen as the prototype, grade-A early talkie actress: everything is exaggerated and melodramatic. She mastered that. But then you go to All About Eve, and she brings that big presence with her while toning down the histrionics from her earlier years, even though her character is written as a histrionic older actress. And then later in Baby Jane, her character is again written to be totally over the top, but she performs it in the character of believable psychopath that it’s actually unnerving. Meanwhile, Joan Crawford, who was in pre-talkie silent films, never mastered the more natural acting style. She just didn’t seem to get it the way Bette did.

Take It Off The E String, Play It On The G String

R4 Crawfish sometimes gave the tiniest glimpses of natural acting. I love her as the camp queen that she was, but I wish she would have done so more. I specifically remember the fleetest moment in Daisy Kenyon, Henry Fonda tells her he loves her like in the end of their first date or something, and she just asks him "What..?", in an understated, human way. She really could be compelling when she acted like a real human being.

Hardly and actor. Miss Stanwyck was an ACTRESS.

R6 She also had a couple of very authentic moments in Mildred Pierce (which won her an Oscar). And I am totally cool with it—her stylized acting punctuated by surprising little moments of humanity can be effective in its own way, like a wall-of-sound sound that suddenly yields to a quiet little moment, but she was nevertheless a less versatile and less naturalistic actress overall. That doesn’t mean she wasn’t a master of her own style. It just wasn’t a natural style.

But a still of her from any given scene in this trailer from the movie you cited could be the inspiration for the evil queen in Disney’s Snow White. Crawford had stature and presence. She just wans’t good at loosening up and coming down to Earth.

R7 Is that so?

Can we get back on topic?

It is the sign of a true stah that attention is directed to her no matter the topic.

No, it's a sign of Crawford stans.

Crawford was no Stanwyck.

Back to the real actress, please.

R2, then whom do you think is the greatest screen actor of all time?

You can always tell when Stanwyck's character is going to be interrupted because she looks down and starts shaking her head when she starts speaking......then when she's interrupted, she stops talking and looks up at the other character......EVERY DAMNED TIME.....

Aren’t there any more comfortable men in the world? Now they’re all little and nervous like sparrows, or big and worried like sick husbears. Men!!!

I like her enough, but I am always aware I am watching Barbara Stanwyck, nlt the character. I have watched Bette Davis movies and felt the character, not the actress.

You mean the nudie actress turned 'straight'?

My favorite Stanwyck movie is "The Strange Love of Martha Ivers".

R17, is it tasteful? I think it’s tasteful. Doesn’t even come close to Velvet Lips, that movie Joan did. Is that bitch still hawking Pepsi?

She wouldn't let those big, strappin' sons of hers marry on the Big Valley.

I don't know about "the best" but Stanwyck was an very good actress. She played a lot of tough parts, but I always felt she was at her best when she could inject humor into the role -as in The Lady Eve. Her characters were always confident, but best when they were self-knowing and not taking themselves (or anything) too seriously. And that nude pic is nothing to be ashamed of!

R20, Neither would Lorne Greene on "Bonanza", unless the fiancée or wife died by the end of the episode.

Frank Capra adored Stanwyck. He said she had a "trick" when playing emotional scenes. When delivering an emotional monologue, she would say every word composed and then make her voice break on the final word as she burst into sobs.

Another of my favorite Stanwyck films is Baby Face:

Baby Face is a 1933 American pre-Code drama film directed by Alfred E. Green for Warner Bros., starring Barbara Stanwyck as Lily Powers, and featuring George Brent. Based on a story by Darryl F. Zanuck (under the pseudonym Mark Canfield), Baby Face is about an attractive young woman who uses sex to advance her social and financial status. Twenty-five-year-old John Wayne plays a supporting role as one of Powers' lovers.

R21, who is "the best" then?

[R25], I wasn't born yesterday. There is no possible answer that, unless it agrees with yours, won't elicit ridicule. This is DL, not the real world.

The only time I found Crawfish naturalistic on screen was in the movie Rain. Too bad the movie was a flop and she changed her acting style because she felt the fans found her too raw and unglamorous.

Great actress, I re-watched Lady of Burlesque the other day.

R14 I think I know what you mean, you can blame it on her habit of memorizing the entire script before filming began, including the other actors' lines. Girl came PREPARED.

R26 No need to add the extra brackets...

Ball of Fire, 1941

R7 fucked her little show up, didn't she?

Today "actor" often is used without connotations of sex. It's like not calling a woman an "executrix." But on the DL, of course, an actress is an actress and an actor is gay.

R28 That picture is from Ball of Fire. Her character from Lady of Burlesque is like the ghetto version of Sugarpuss O'Shea. I wish I had her figure.

R34 She probably looked her best in Lady of Burlesque, the clothes are great in it.

The Lady Eve is funny and very "modern" throughout . I usually recommend that one along with Double Indemnity and Baby Face.

The Strange Love of Martha Ivers on YouTube:

"Double Indemnity" is on TCM tonight (part of the tribute to star of the month Edward G. Robinson.)

Double Indemnity is in many opinions (mine included) the best film noir of all time. Hard to imagine without Stanwyck. I love her accent by the way.

So sensual! Barbara was a star.

I think she's the greatest natural actress in the studio age when it comes to realistic commitment to a character - her authenticity in every role was pretty much unmatched, partly because she lacked stage tricks (a few repetitive tics of hers didn't intrude) and focused on delivering the meaning of her lines and roles without caring how she looked doing it.

Her considerable personal flaws apart, up until the end of her film career she could deliver in a range from near-screwball to romance to thriller, and always managed to be sympathetic, or at least understandable, no matter how lousy her character was. Her works with Fred MacMurray alone show her range. "Rough poignancy" was how the man who hired her for her huge Broadway success in "Burlesque" called it. He bemoaned her move to Hollywood because she was so great on the stage.

Her TV work, including her sorry part in "The Thorn BIrds," wasn't her best. Her dentures didn't fit and the character in the OP's supposed acting lesson wasn't convincing except in a dull, soap opera way. Well, she was pretty good in some episodes of her "The Barbara Stanwyck Show" from 1961. But, no, pick any scene from any theatrical movie she did from the 1930s through 1950s to see a true film acting lesson. She DID get three Emmys, though.

I really like The Other Love (1947). Compared to her usual roles, it's quite bizarre watching her play a helpless sick woman, probably with tuberculosis (still smoking thought) and being molested by Gilbert Ronald in a dark alley, where instead of her kicking him in the D she hands him her Elizabet Taylor-sized ring so her lives her alone. Wardrobe is also by Edith Head.

Barbara was lez or lez-adjacent, no?

Barbara Stanwyck was one of the lucky few people who actually looked better as she got older. She was rather plain-looking as a young woman, but as a mature woman with the white hair she was quite striking.

R42, I love Stanwyck, but I've never even heard of that movie -- why haven't I run into it on TCM? It sounds wonderful!

R45 I watched it on this russian wonder, OK.RU. It has every old movie you can think of. The Other Love I think was made by an independent studio so that's probably the reason for it not being shown on TCM.

Sorry Wrong Number, anyone?

Clash By Night!

If you've never seen "My Reputation"(1946), check it out. Stanwyck is great as a young society widow with two young sons and an overbearing mother.

When she gets wet over George Brent and wants to have some fun, everyone in town turns on her.

Stanwyck's film noirs in the 40s were all great films.

"The Strange Love Of Martha Ivers" is one of the BEST movie titles ever!

R39, But that hideous blonde wig . . .

Robert Wagner claims he began a four year long affair with Stanwyck when he was 22 and she was 44.

Joan Crawford and Barbara Stanwyck were friends for decades. They lived next door to each other in the early 30s and when Stanwyck's alcoholic then-husband Frank Fay went into one of his drunken tirades she would hop the fence and seek refuge at Joan's house for the night. I would bet money that they were dyking it out with each other on those nights.

RJ is a fucking liar.

He was not Miss Stanwyck's type.

Stanwyck had such animosity toward her adopted son Dion Fay. On her deathbed, she commanded the nurses not to ever allow him into her hospital room.

Anyone know why she and her son were so estranged?

The infamous Blackglama ad catches Missy mid SHIT!

I loved Barbara Stanwyck in "The Thorn Birds" and I thought she pulled off the role of Mary Carson expertly. Obviously the Emmy voters agreed, and gave her an Emmy for it.

Her naturalistic style made her harder to imitate, her accent wasn't exaggerated and the few repetitive physical ticks of hers that I noticed weren't very pronounced. I would say that while it garnered her authenticity in her craft, it took away from her longevity as a pop culture icon. I don't think much of the younger generations know who she is, only the movie buffs and people that don't shy away from "old movies". I'm an 80's baby myself, and my only friend who has watched one of her movies did it in film class at her Uni. Mario Cantone, though, does a great imitation of her with her Thorn Birds-era voice, lisp and all: "I was treated like a leperous because I liked eating pusshay!"

R57 We'll have to wait for Victoria Wilson's 2nd volume of her Stanwyck biography to hear Dion's side of the story. She apparently sought him out, sorta befriended him and interviewed him for the book over the course of several years.

r54 It's true Stanwyck and Crawford carried on a well-publicized friendship throughout their lives -- a rarity among Hollywood stars of their caliber. They had a lot in common, starting out in the 20s at the bottom of society and rising in a man's world through willpower and talents in various areas.

By the 60s, the steely Stanwyck apparently had grown weary of Crawford's phony Hollywood ways and let her have it in a secretly taped recording, with a duplicitous journalist egging her on. The occasion was after a drunken Crawford had made a disgrace of herself at a White House reception for a Supreme Court justice and his young bride.

Juicy stuff from Missy. Makes me feel a bit sorry for Joanie, who apparently had no real friends in Hollywood.

R62 I'd say Missy is quite drunk herself in those Eder tapes. Good for her. I hope she didn't drop her dentures into her drink...

I can see Barbara Stanwyck in the Helen Lawson role in Valley of the Dolls. She would've killed it.

R62, I listened to that a long time ago. I recall Stanwyck being snarky about Crawford's disingenuous behavior to Eder, but when did she confront Crawford to her face about it?

Btw, this is NOT a thread about Joan Fucking Crawford, ya queens!

[quote]Anyone know why she and her son were so estranged?

We don't know all the facts, but Stanwyck was raised in a miserably unloving environment, shuttled to a series of foster homes after her father abandoned the family. After she and Frank Fay separated, she fought ferociously for custody of their adopted son, but once he was of school age, she placed him in a military boarding school and rarely spent time with him, except for holidays. All the other boys at school went back home to their parents on weekends, but little Dion stayed alone at school. The headmaster and his wife began to look after him because they felt so sorry for the child.

Interestingly, Stanwyck made a 1937 weeper at Fox called 'Always Goodbye' in which she played a woman who gives her newborn son up for adoption and then meets the boy several years later. Her character learns that the boy's prospective new stepmother is going to send him away to military school, and says something on the order of , "How could anyone to that to a child?'

Yet that is exactly what Stanwyck herself did to her own adopted child. The irony was apparently lost on her.

I luv Missy's shoulder-padded, missy-embroidered sweater. I think I'm gonna make myself one.

R66, After Stanwyck was awarded custody of Dion, Frank Fay attempted to kidnap him with the assistance of a member of Stanwyck's household staff. The staff member had second thoughts and alerted Stanwyck of Fay's plan and it was thwarted.

This may have been already stated, but there are long standing rumors that Stanwyck and Agnes Moorehead were two of the all time great dykes of Hollywood. If true I can see why she was close to Crawford who was also rumored to have the occasional dalliance with other broads.

"I don't think much of the younger generations know who she is"

R60, much of the younger generations don't know who a lot of people are, because they're incurious and ignorant and only choose to know people of their own generations. Growing up, I would be ashamed of the proud ignorance displayed by these younger fools.

[quote] Growing up, I would be ashamed of the proud ignorance displayed by these younger fools.

Truer words have rarely been spoken.

NUDIES!

I'm forever grateful that my mother loved old movies and watched them on TV when I was a child, so I grew up with Barbara Stanwyck and her contemporaries. I'm no longer shocked that most people I meet are happily ignorant of everything that happened before they were born, but I do feel so sorry for them.

Barbara Stanwyck and Barbara Streisand graduated from Erasmus Hall High School on Flatbush Aveenue. Stanwyck lived on Bedford Avenue, Streisand on Newkirk Avenue.

I was born in the 90s and grew up in a family that loved classic movies and old Hollywood, I know people my age who refuse to watch black and white movies - imagine being that narrow-minded and boring. Same goes with "foreign" movies with subtitles, some people avoid them like the plague for some reason.

But then again, you couldn't pay me to watch a Marvel movie so maybe I'm biased too lol.

R72 How old is she in that photo? She looks underage. I wonder how she kept that bod for so long, chain-smoking? How did they work out in those days? Beside Tennis and swimming. I know Gloria Swanson and a few others were into yoga and a healthy diet even back then, but I bet Stanwyck didn't give a damn about downward facing dogs and kale smoothies.

Stanwyck was a lifelong heavy smoker, she died from COPD. I think she also drank, esp. in her later years. A lot of those old Hollywood broads turned to booze. Crawford, Davis, Dietrich, etc.

She’s great... but no Bette Davis

Thank the lords our senses allow us to watch and hear the movies, but not smell them. It's almost like that "You should never meet your heroes" phrase, all those Hollywood legends/nicotine-addicts' mouths probably stank to high heaven.

So did I, r74!

Why on earth did she and Frank Fay adopt a child? Neither one of them was parent material. As for Stanwyck's relationship with him...well, she pretty much ignored him He later said she would only hug him when there was a photographer was there to take a picture of it. I guess she thought adopting a child would be a good career move. Anyway, she was even less interested in him as he grew up and lost any cuteness he had as a small child. When he became an adult she had no relationship with him at all. I feel pretty sorry for poor Dion.Being the adopted child of a famous person is sometimes not all it's cracked up to be.

That was when she was a Ziegfeld chorus girl, r76. She WAS Phyllis!

Oh, no, no, r78. To quote: "She may never have been as good as Davis at her best, but she was never as bad as Davis at her worst. In fact, she never gave a bad performance."

It's a sign of true charisma, when one manages to dance like a white girl with a mullet and a pair of tiny tits, and still COMMAND the screen.

Mr. Capra described her as having "a stern beauty".

Yes, it was odd that she adopted a child. She had zero maternal instincts and was psychologically damaged from her horrible childhood. She was a very stern, cold woman her entire life. Definitely not mother material.

In her later years, when Katharine Hepburn was asked if she regretted never having children, she said not for a minute because she knew she would've been a shit mother. She made no excuses.

r81=Christina Crawford

About 95% of celebrities should never have children.

The most dispiriting thing about Stanwyck is she was a hard-right politically active Republican.

Wiki: "Stanwyck opposed the presidency of Franklin D. Roosevelt. She felt that if someone from her disadvantaged background had risen to success, others should be able to prosper without government intervention or assistance. For Stanwyck, "hard work with the prospect of rich reward was the American way". Stanwyck became an early member of the Motion Picture Alliance for the Preservation of American Ideals (MPA) after its founding in 1944. The mission of this group was to "... combat ... subversive methods [used in the industry] to undermine and change the American way of life." It opposed both communist and fascist influences in Hollywood. She publicly supported the investigations of the House Un-American Activities Committee, her husband Robert Taylor appearing to testify as a friendly witness. Stanwyck shared conservative Republican affiliation with such contemporaries as: Mary Pickford, Walt Disney, Hedda Hopper, Randolph Scott, Robert Young, Ward Bond, William Holden, Ginger Rogers, Jimmy Stewart, George Murphy, Gary Cooper, Bing Crosby, John Wayne, Walter Brennan, Shirley Temple, Bob Hope, Adolphe Menjou, Helen Hayes, director Frank Capra, and her Double Indemnity co-star, Fred MacMurray."

Sorry, Wrong Number

R87, Ginger Rogers said the same thing when asked later in her life while promoting her autobiography if she regretted not having had children.

R90, I knew she was a Republican but in her case I don't care. It was a different time and her politics came from her horrible childhood, having been abandoned and having to survive completely on her own at a very young age with no one to help her.

As for the comparison to Bette Davis, Davis could never have been as sexy and subtle as Stanwyck in DOUBLE INDEMNITY, nor as witty as Stanwyck in THE LADY EVE. Stanwyck had a natural quality Davis never had.

Good point, r93. The Republican Party back in those days was very different from what the modern Republican Party is.

Agreed about Davis ^. I always liked her but after I got familiar with her affectations in speech and body movements, it's been more and more difficult for me to sit through her movies. I always give up less than an hour in. It's become an annoyance, and her schticks don't always fit the character. If I have to choose, I choose Stanwyck.

R13, since you asked, Katharine Hepburn is my favorite screen actress from that era. My favorite all-time screen actor was and is Brando.

Bette couldn't do comedy. Although she could be witty and funny as Bette.

Bette was witty and funny as her old broad self on all those 60's-70's-80's talk shows. I don't recall watching her play funny on film. I have a feeling Missy was the polar opposite, she could do funny like the best of 'em while in character, but she strikes me as a shy, composed person that could probably truly relax and let her wit run only among her closest friends. Just guessing y'all.

Stanwyck was fairly reclusive and didn't have much of a social life. She rarely did interviews or public appearances. When she wasn't working, she just holed up in her house.

Not the best (who is), but one of the best. I love her final I never loved you Walter speach in Double Indemnity. Few actresses then would have doe it dead pan.

R83, almost agree, but Stella Dallas is terrible. You almost can watch it in mute.

Frank Capra was a Republican? That one does shock me!

I kinda like the fact she was a loner. Here's a long interview she did on the set of The Big Valley. It's got some interesting stuff, if you can endure the video quality.

R100, no one could have made STELLA DALLAS any better. It's just a terrible movie, full of contemptible female masochism and class prejudice. But I believe it was a big hit for her.

It is hard to reconcile what seems to have been a universal affection for her by crew and most cast members with her more distant relationships away from work. Like with her son. Maybe she didn’t know how away from work, which seemed the center of her life.

[quote]almost agree, but Stella Dallas is terrible. You almost can watch it in mute.

Watch the Bette Midler version. You'll think the original is a masterpiece.

Though her estrangement from her son was definitely a shame, there were a lot of very poor parents among her colleagues--Crawford, the child-beating Bing Crosby, even Bette Davis, to name a few. Not to excuse it.

But she did have a stellar reputation with everyone who worked with her. She always made sure to praise and thank her crews with every award she received, and she singlehandedly saved William Holden's career when he was nearly fired from GOLDEN BOY. He said without her support, he would have been washed up before he even started.

LOL, R105, I'm sure you're right, but I'll pass on Bette's version. If Stanwyck couldn't sell that moldy old Olive Higgins Prouty story, no. one could.

She seemed a bit grand with the "Miss Barbara Stanwyck" billing on The Big Valley and certainly she didn't really get to show much range in her tv rolles on that show and Thorn Birds.

The closest thing to a male counterpart in terms of naturalism was probably Spencer Tracy. he appeared effortless and could play a range of things from light comedy to serious drama.

Capra was a red baiting, McCarthyite SOB as well as a hasbeen by the end of WWII.

r106, Bette was a poor parent because she spoiled BD rotten.

She is so modern and likeable in The Lady Eve and Henry Fonda is dreamy on it as well great film!

R109, while I despise that cunt BD Hyman and believe Davis had every right to disinherit her ass, I don't have trouble believing some of the stories of Bette being drunk, manipulative, nasty, etc.

R110, THE LADY EVE is maybe the best Preston Sturges comedy and Stanwyck was never more charming and funny than in that.

The Lady Eve holds up to this day. I remember watching it years ago for the first time and couldn't believe how funny it was. It's definitely Preston Sturges' best film and the greatest screwball comedy of all time (alongside Bringing Up Baby, It Happened One Night and His Girl Friday).

Does anyone believe Stanwyck would have been a better mother to Dion if he had been biological and not adopted?

Not to hijack this thread, but to the list of lousy Hollywood parents, add Norma Shearer, Mary Astor and Mary Pickford.

Sorry, r93 ad r94. Stanwyck wasn't a everyday Republican. She and her husband actively participated in the blacklist, helping to ruin the lives of may of their colleagues. Taylor actually pushed for a blacklist before it was official,. I don't give Stanwyck pass because she was a great actress.

Add yes, she would have voted for Trump.

R115/R90, you're entitled to hate the way Stanwyck voted and expressed her political views. As those are described here, I find them hateful too.

But I still love to watch her work as an actor. That's the extent of my relationship with her, so it's not as if I'm supporting her political activities by enjoying her movies -- she's been dead for years, she's not even receiving royalties when TCM plays her stuff.

Stanwyck had a harsh upbringing and Frank Fay was a nasty drunk. Fay bears some of the responsibility for her son's estrangement. Stanwyck was more able to be warm and interested with crews and fellow cast members because she didn't have to see them after the day was over. She wouldn't be the first person to be more appropriate in her relationships with outsiders than with her family. I never got the impression that she kept up with her sibs.

See the superb Gene Krupa on the drums ... from "Ball of Fire".

R113 Yeah, maybe. I once read one of the interviews she did with Photoplay (or some other movie magazine of the time) when she was still married to Taylor, they asked her if she's with child (don't remember why) and she replied with something to the effect of "Are you kidding? I'd be screaming it from my rooftop if I was". It could be a fake interview, but if it wasn't, I find it heartbreaking. She must have known she had her parts fucked up long before.

Perhaps she was infertile because of a botched illegal abortion. That happened to a lot of women in that era.

Yes, she presumably had it in her teens.

I love Stany, imo, she is the best of the golden age of Hollywood. I'm a huge Kate Hepburn fan, love Davis and Crawford but Stanwyck is the most natural, least mannered actress, much more versatile than anybody the other actresses. She also has at least one classic movie in each genre which no other actress achieved.

R122, What was her classic western?

Another seldom shown Stanwyck film is "Jeopardy", with Barry Sullivan.

R123, I'm not R122 but I know the answer to your question: "The Furies" (1950). Sounds too violent for me so I've never seen it.

Annie Oakley (1935)

R125 and R126, Those two are not a classic westerns. Examples of classic westerns are "Stagecoach", "Red River" and "Shane".

Check out this Oscar bait

r127 They may not be considered "classic westerns" because they have a female protagonist instead of a swaggering male star a la John Wayne. But Annie Oakley and The Furies are excellent Hollywood classics in their own right.

Had Stanwyck been a couple of decades younger I think she would have made a very convincing and moving Dorothy in "The Golden Girls".

Read somewhere Missy and Susan Hayward were pals. When Hayward had a stroke Stanwyck use to visit and push her around in her wheelchair. Birds of a feather.

When did Hayward have a stroke?

Both from Brooklyn.

R14 - I have most of Stanwyck's films but I can't say that I know what you are referring to. Can you give an example in a specific film please and I will check my copy.

She never got to do a great, classic western like "High Noon" or the overrated "The Searchers", but she did countless B Westerns like "Cattle Queen of Montana " (with Ronald Reagan). The A list Westerns rarely had good parts for women.

Well, the Furies was directed by Anthony Mann and co stared Walter Houston. Don’t forget about Gilbert Roland! Maybe not remembered like Shane, or other A - Westerns, but still very good. Forty Guns is a B Western.

Excited Criterion is putting The Lady Eve out onto bluray in July - they should spruce up a more obscure Stanwyck gem though. She has so many buried treasures. TCM played Douglas Sirk's There's Always Tomorrow recently and she's got a tearjerker scene near the end of it that is a total knockout.

[R42]: I saw “The Other Love” several times, after taping it off local TV in New York, which used to show many now obscure older films. However, I confess to watching it more to listen to the score by Miklos Rozsa, which is florid, typical of his work, but very good.

Nevertheless, I was taken over time by Stanwyck’s performance. She plays a well-to-do party girl who comes down with TB, and goes to an Alpine clinic, where idealistic, if pallid doctor David Niven falls for her. Ever in denial, Stanwyck keeps fighting her disease; after a mild remission she even flees back to her former life of fun. But her illness comes back, and she ends up back with Niven, though maybe an uncertain end.

And Stanwyck pulls this off. The inner restlessness of those seemingly well, but knowing something inside them is slowly destroying them. There was a lot of this in the early days of AIDS when I watched this. And now, again, there are those fleeing an unseen ill. And who can blame them?

Despite the melodramatic material, I wonder who else could actually do this believably. Davis is very dramatic in a similar vehicle, “Dark Victory,” but not gut-wrenching. Stanwyck makes you squirm in empathy.

That’s art.

Is volume 2 of the Stanwyck bio ever going to come out?

R132, Susan Hayward suffered from a brain tumor. She would have seizures, but she never stroked out.

At her last public appearance, presenting an Oscar with Charlton Heston to Glenda Jackson, her doctor was backstage and he injected her with something to prevent a seizure prior to taking the stage on Heston's arm.

I hope that the second volume of the Stanwyck biography corrects the information about Stanwyck's father, Byron Stevens.

I've read various stories, many claiming his children never heard from him again. The story was that he went off to work on the Panama Canal after his wife was killed in an accident in 1911 and never returned. I read somewhere (can't remember where) that some family members (his son? nephews? ??) went to Panama to try to find out what had happened to him and someone told them that he had died but they did not know where he was buried.

The truth is:

Yes, Byron Stevens did go and worked on the Panama Canal. Records show he started there in 1913.

He was returning to New York about the SS Advance sailing from Cristobal, Canal Zone on June 5, 1919, due to arrive in New York on June 13, 1919.

Information on the ship's manifest matches that of Stanwyck's father and he listed his address in the United States as "2586 Bedford Ave, Brooklyn, NY." This is the exact same address that is listed on the 1920 US Census as the address of 3 of his children including 13 year old "Rubie"

Since this is not the address that he gave when he left for Panama, nor was it the family address on the 1910 census, perhaps he was in touch with his family while in Panama. (How else did he have the correct address?)

Unfortunately, Byron Stevens died at sea (June 5, 1919) before the ship arrived in New York.

One would think that the steamship company would have notified the family of his death.

[quote] ... The story was that he went off to work on the Panama Canal after his wife was killed in an accident in 1911 and never returned.

R141, I hope he didn't blame his wife for never returning after she suffered a fatal accident.

Barbara's pregnant mother was pushed off a streetcar by a drunk man and died on the pavement. Her father left the family and Barbara and her younger brother were in and out of foster homes after that. She never finished school and worked a series of menial jobs, beginning when she was around 12 or 13. Her childhood was horrific, it's no wonder she was a rather cold and stern woman in her adult life.

Note: While Stanwyck was pro HUAC, she had the sense not to get too involved. It was her dippy husband Robert Taylor that testified and named names, two of which were actors that didn't worked again for decades based on Taylor's innuendo (no hard facts).

To the person who claimed Stanwyck graduated from the same HS as Streisand, Erasmus Hall, the fact is that Stanwyck never graduated from HS. There's conflicting info, but some have written that she dropped out of school before HS.

As for the Robert Wagner story, I'm inclined to believe it was a one night stand. Wagner WAS her type - she favored callow youths such as Wagner, Taylor and Farley Granger. That's only for men, of course.

To everybody, yes, Stanwyck couldn't have children because of an illegal abortion. ALL abortions at that time usually caused infertility, they didn't have to be "botched."

50's teleprompter is giving Missy the wandering eye

Stanwyck in character introduced several of her films in voice over after the titles - she was exceptionally good at it.

From East Side West Side (1949)

"Yes, this is my town. It's not new to you, you've read books about it, you've seen movies. People are always talking about New York. It's the most exciting city in the world they say, the most glamorous, the most frightening, and above all - the fastest. You hear a great deal about the tempo of the city, its speed, its pace, its driving heartbeat. Perhaps it's true for visitors. But I was born here, I live here, and the only pace I know is of my own life. The only beat I hear is the beat of my own heart."

R146, That film had quite the cast:

Barbara Stanwyck, James Mason, Van Heflin, Ava Gardner, Gale Sondergaard, Cyd Charisse, William Frawley, Nancy Davis and William Conrad.

I have a copy of "East Side, West Side" and have watched it more than once.

I particularly love the scene toward the end when James Mason goes to see Gale Sondergaard for her help and her response.

No spoilers.

But the scene was great.

Sondergaard was only 8 years older than Missy.

R49, In the scene where Stanwyck retrieves her confused young sons after they ran away to her mother’s house, Stanwyck delivers a heartbreaking monologue.

She did the same damn thing in All I Desire (1953) when she explains why she left the family to the young son who doesn't remember her!

Barbara made some great potboilers.

Barbara and Bette Davis in the late 70s. They apparently didn't like each other.

Bette was in Wild Bill Wellman's 1932 version of Edna Ferber's SO BIG, which starred Stanwyck. Bette, who was not yet a star, acted like a diva during the shoot and Stanwyck called her out. Through the years, Stanwyck called/wrote when she admired a Davis performance; Davis kept mum.

R153, Barbara looks fresh as a daisy there, while Bette is wearing a wig, hat and tinted glasses.

And Barbara was a year older than Bette.

Bette didn't age well at all. She got really haggard-looking.

EVERYBODY gets haggard looking, R156, even you. If one lays off the booze and the cigs (Davis and Stany did NOT), one might look less aged with good plastic surgery (like Stanwyck's). Otherwise, exercising and keeping fit as possible at that age (see Stany, not Davis), will give you a better/younger appearance. Note that does not mean keeping as thin a possible - too thin at 35 looks good, too thin at 65 will make you look haggard.

I watched her play the lesbian pimp in Walk on the Wild Side, bitch slapping Cappucine. She was awesome.

Great color footage of Stanwyck and MacMurray during the making of "There's Always Tomorrow" (1956) . She has silver hair and looks fabulous.

There's also footage of Ann Blyth's wedding, which is a DL classic and deserves another thread all its own.

R147 - you forgot Beverly Michaels. She has a hilarous fight scene with Van Heflin.

A very strange tour of Stanwyck's empty house.

^ Stanwyck didn't live with Robert Taylor in this house. She lived with Marion Marx, "wife" of Zeppo Marx.

r157 Davis aged terribly.

Bette Davis (and Joan Crawford, for that matter) aged prematurely due to drinking and heavy smoking. I don't know if Joan got any work done (I assume she did) but Bette had at least one facelift. Anyway, plastic surgery didn't seem to do them much good. Their excesses really made them look like old, haggard women even when they weren't that old.

R155: Stanwyck looks like she's had too much plastic surgery in that pic, along with troweled-on makeup. Davis aged a lot in her 40s. Stanwyck went more gradually but was looking old in her 50s.

Stanwyck also drank and smoked, but maybe Bette and Joan smoked more. This photo is Bette Davis at age 62. She really aged like hell.

She looked great when she received her honorary Oscar in 1982, with that Nolan Miller gown. Her face looks completely line-free, I'm sure plastic surgery helped because her neck is sort of sagging. Even back in Double Indemnity she already had streaks across her neck, I noticed them when "Wolter" grabs her in his apartment and they have this little talk about bourbon and a perfume from Ensenada.

R166, That was taken on the set of the television series "It Takes a Thief" when she guest starred in 1968. Bette was 60.

Who hasn't wanted to do like Barbara a few hundred times?

The greatest of all time? Heavens no. Glad you enjoy her but many were better.

I saw her in an old 70s ghost story called "The House that would Not Die". Its cheesy but I love it!

"I don't know if Joan got any work done"

You're so funny!

[quote] ... many were better.

Name some, R170. Not challenging your assertion, just interested in your opinion.

Hillary Clinton's personality and public persona always reminded me of Barbara Stanwyck at her butchiest.

Stanwyck looked great pretty much up to the end.

This 1981 incident had to be incredibly frightening for her . . .

BEVERLY HILLS, Calif. -- Actress Barbara Stanwyck was awakened by a robber, hit on the head with an unknown object then forced into a closet while the intruder ransacked the house and got away with $5,000 worth of jewels.

Miss Stanwyck, 74, was treated for minor head wounds at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center and released following the incident early Tuesday.

'Stanwyck was awakened by a man standing in her bedroom door who wanted to know where her jewelry and purse were,' Lt. Russ Olsen said Wednesday.

Investigators said the prowler probably entered the exclusive Trousdale Estates home through a broken window.

As Miss Stanwyck reached out to turn on a light, she told officers, the intruder hit her with a blunt object, put her in a closet, grabbed a small amount of jewelry from the bedroom and fled.

Miss Stanwyck said the suspect was about 6-2 and 200 pounds, and appeared to be wearing a ski mask.

'She did not have any other description because of the darkness,' Lt. Russ Olsen said.

Miss Stanwyck, who starred for several years in 'The Big Valley' television series, was nominated four times for the best actress Oscar for the movies 'Sorry, Wrong Number,' 'Double Indemnity,' 'Ball of Fire' and 'Stella Dallas.'

I love how she says "add water, ehem, cold water" with that accent of hers.

"Glad you enjoy her but many were better."

I AM challenging you. Name a few. That means screen actresses.

^^God, that coffee sounds awful :(

Many were NOT better. I'm with R178 in challenging that fool assertion.

I don't know if she was the best, but you know a Barbara Stanwyck picture was going to be good. She always gave a great performance.

It certainly does, R179. Did people actually drink that shit that passed for coffee?

Barbara wants you to smoke L&Ms. Oh don't worry, these cigarettes are recommended by DOCTORS!

I hope no doctors actually endorsed those cigarettes, but I have a feeling a few might have taken the money and done just that.

"More doctors smoke Camel than any other cigarette."

I know that when I think of a "healthy cigarette," I think of unfiltered Camels!

Who was better? Bette Davis. Katherine Hepburn. Luise Reiner. Greta Garbo. Geraldine Page. Vivien Leigh. Meryl Streep. Cate Blanchett. Ingrid Bergman. Maggie Smith. I like Stanwyck, but given the choice I'd choose movies from any of these actresses before her.

Darling, R186, OF HER GENERATION. I would say she was a much more natural, less artificial actress than Davis. And I would exclude from that list Rainer and Garbo.

And it's Katharine, not Katherine.

R186, Not Crawford?

R186, of the actresses that you list -- Bette Davis, Katherine Hepburn, Luise Reiner [sic -- Rainer], Greta Garbo, Geraldine Page, Vivien Leigh, Meryl Streep, Cate Blanchett, Ingrid Bergman, Maggie Smith -- I love Davis, Hepburn, Garbo, Leigh, Bergman, and Smith (I'm not sufficiently familiar with Rainer, Page, Streep, and Blanchett to have an opinion). But I don't consider any of the ones I love to be better than Stanwyck, simply because Stanwyck was so versatile and gave such a natural performance in every kind of role she approached. All of the others had occasional weak spots, but I've never seen that with Stanwyck.

Crawford, R188? Oh, my sides!!!

I agree that Stanwyck was enjoyable to watch and a naturalistic actress. Yes, Davis and Hepburn could both be more mannered. But they both gave a series of outstanding performances that I just don't find in the Stanwyck canon.

She was natural in her style and could play a range of roles, but could not inhabit a role in the way of people who came after her or even some of her near contemporaries. She could never have done Blanche in Streetcar, for example. She wouldn't have been as good in Golden Boy if, instead of William Holden, they had cast someone more appropriate like John Garfield. She was not someone who could straddle lead and character actor like Shirley Booth, who was of her era (actually even older) but had a career closer to what actresses had in the future., although mostly on the stage.

Geraldine Page is a terrible comparison--she was very stagey and a bit histrionic in film---good in something like "Sweet Bird of Youth" but positively nauseating in "Trip to Bountiful" Oscar win aside.

R183, you nitwit. Stanwyck ADVERTISED L&Ms, she didn't actually SMOKE them.

R186, Geraldine Page??? Meryl Streep??? Let me guess, you're under thirty and very very dump and dopey.

r193 Stanwyck was a heavy smoker IRL, maybe she did smoke L&Ms.

Geraldine Page is great! Not a lot of screen credits, but Sweet Bird Of Youth is a gem!

Stanwyck was at her best when cast opposite actors who were weaker than her in their charisma and/or physical presence. She was so good in dominating the screen that she sucked all of the attention towards her, like those prison guards in Harry Potter. I think maybe she COULD play Blanche DuBois if she was a little younger when the movie was made. Her being 44 at the time might have been age appropriate for the role, but from 1950 on she seemed to truly embrace her butch side. Before, she could do that kind of vulnerable, deranged, delicate female, though usually not cast as one. I guess producers and audiences liked her better when she played strong, independent women. I’m pretty sure she couldn’t pull of a southern accent though (which Viv did quite well). It would be interesting to watch Stanwyck play opposite other scene-stealers like Garfield and Brando.

Bette Davis would've been a good Blanche Dubois. She was the right age at the time.

R197, that is ridiculous. Davis had none of the vulnerability to play Blanche. Not for one minute.

R192, your assertion that the miscasting of Holden in GOLDEN BOY made her more palatable in her role than if Garfield had been cast makes no sense. In general, you state she was incapable of inhabiting a role when practically no actress then "inhabited" a role the way they did, years later, during the Actors Studio heyday. It was also a very different time, with a vey different approach to acting and character.

Davis could play vulnerable r198.

Baby Face is one of the films that helped bring in the Code!

Barbara Stanwyck plays a young girl pimped out by her father, leaves home and learns to use what she has got to get what she needs.

This scene was deleted, just too hot for even pre-code Hollywood.

Bette Davis, who is my favorite actress of all time, lacked the sex appeal of Viv to play Blanche convincingly. I just don't think Bette was neurotic enough of an actress to do Blanche justice.

Now, she would've been perfect as Martha in Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf. Shame Edward Albee didn't get his wish in the casting for the film adaptation.

Baby Face featured a very young John Wayne .....

Barbara Stanwyck wasn't the most attractive woman, but with the right make-up, hair, wardrobe and lighting she was very beautiful.

R199, Davis could not play vulnerable, neurotic, sexually predatory, unhinged, mentally ill, and a victim--all the qualities of Blanche. She could play aspects of those qualities, but not all of them all at once. Blanche was not in her wheelhouse. In fact, the only actress who could really embody Blanche was Vivien Leigh. That's not a criticism of Stanwyck. Davis could no more play Blanche than Hepburn or Colbert or Crawford or Ginger Rogers or any other actress of that time.

No, I think if given a chance Davis would've been a great Blanche. Jessica Tandy was no beauty either, and she was legendary in the play.

R119

Barbara Stanwyck had a "botched" abortion at age 15 which left her sterile. So yes in that respect Ms. Stanwyck was like so many other women in Hollywood or elsewhere for that matter. Jane Russell couldn't have children for pretty much same reason..

R205, Davis was in no way similar in temperament to Jessica Tandy. Davis was no more Blanche than Hepburn.

Joan Crawford also allegedly had an illegal abortion and that's why she was infertile.

No, Davis definitely could've played Blanche. I think Tennessee Williams even wanted her for the film version.

So did Davis, R208. So did Garland.

R209, Davis ha no temperament for that part. And I think you're wrong about Williams wanting Davis. Any link for that?

Tennessee Williams wrote Blanche with Tallulah Bankhead in mind. I never heard that he wanted Davis in the film version. She would've been all wrong for the role.

I think it was William Wyler, who had directed Davis three times, who wanted to make a film of "Streetcar" with her, not Tennessee Williams.

Davis did play Maxine in "The Night of the Iguana" on Broadway. That role was a better fit than Blanche.

r210 not every woman became infertile from an illegal abortion, but many did.

Geraldine Page was magnificent in Trip to Bountiful and anyone who claims otherwise is deaf, dumb and blind.

R214 = F. Murray Abraham

My favorite Stany candid.

Davis probably would have played Blanche as a proto-Baby Jane---maybe she could have done it when she was younger but it would have been more difficult by middle age. Blanche would have been too close to home for Stanwyck given her upbringing but by that point there was a limit of what she would show. She was a different kind of survivor but probably afraid that she could turn into Blanche if she let her guard down too much.

Roles that were essentially the same as the Holden part in "Golden Boy" were played by Garfield in "Humoresque" and "Body and Soul" and Garfield gave depth to them that Holden could not. The roles were basically ethnic stereotypes that needed more than someone from an upper middle class Chicago suburb could deliver. Stanwyck would have had trouble playing off someone more intense and "common" than her. She would have had a similar problem with Streetcar.

Geraldine Page chews scenery in huge bites during "Trip to Bountiful". It's essentially too stage-y to easily do well as a film (it needed to be "opened up" more so that she didn't suffocate it) and she embraced the histrionics. Cicely Tyson did a much better version of the same part on Broadway, giving it subtlety and pathos rather bathos.

Stanwyck, dabbling in some boa-swinging camp:

I have to agree with other posters that whilst Stanwyck was a great STAR and a good actress, calling her the greatest film actor of all time is ludicrous.

Like many stars of the studio system era, even in disparate roles she remained "Stanwyck". Whether the self-sacrificing Mum in "Stella Dallas" the socipathic vamp in "Double Indemnity" or the sly rom-com heroine in "Christmas in Connecticut", she was always good, but always Stanwyck, just the way Hepburn was always Hepburn and Gable was always Gable.

She always gave value for money in her roles - as did, in fact, other stars of the era. But remarkably superior to every other film actor in strictly dramatic terms: not.

It's an unfair world, and it's not a state secret that often actors with far more dramatic talent but less "star quality" don't get legendary status.

I like Stanwyck. I can watch "Double Indemnity" any time of the day or night. But in fact, I thought MacMurray turned in the better performance because he wasn't playing Fred MacMurray and he hadn't played heavies much before then - but he'll never get credit for it.

"Stanwyck was at her best when cast opposite actors who were weaker than her in their charisma and/or physical presence."

True, R196. But you must not have seen her later films. Stanwyck was equally effective with men as strong as she was - Robert Ryan, Sterling Hayden, Raymond Burr, Barry Sullivan, Fred MacMurray (yes) and throw in Edward G Robinson (second movie), and six time co-star Joel MacCrea.

"Stanwyck was a heavy smoker IRL, maybe she did smoke L&Ms."

Yeah, and Chesterfields and Lucky's and Old Golds... those were ADS, she may have actually smoked five packs of Camels for all we know.

R219, Hepburn did not play Hepburn in Long Day's Journey Into Night, or Trojan Women--two films that she excelled in without Hepburn mannerisms. And no one to my knowledge has called Stanwyck the greatest film actor of all time. I certainly didn't. But she stood out for being real and unmannered.

R217, Stanwyck would have had no trouble playing against Garfield. I don't see any difficulties for her at all there.

R219, ALL LEAD MOVIE ACTORS play themselves or some version of themselves - ALWAYS, then and now. That's what movie acting is all about.

"from 1950 on she seemed to truly embrace her butch side. Before, she could do that kind of vulnerable, deranged, delicate female, though usually not cast as one. I guess producers and audiences liked her better when she played strong"

Sorry, I missed that part of your post, R196. The reason is - those were the roles Stanwyck was offered. At age 40+ movie roles are limited, especially for actresses. It had nothing to do with what producers and audiences liked, it was about what was available. It was lucky that Stanwyck could work steadily and be accepted by audiences in her late 40s and 50s. What I like is that she continued doing many butch roles while I'm sure rumors were swirling, it didn't bother or stop Stanwyck at all.

R217

[quote] ... Garfield gave depth to them that Holden could not. The roles were basically ethnic stereotypes that needed more than someone from an upper middle class Chicago suburb could deliver.

William Holden was not from an upper middle class Chicago suburb.

He came from a small town called O'Fallon, Illinois. Not a Chicago suburb. Not even close to Chicago.

His family moved to California when he was 3.

"ALL LEAD MOVIE ACTORS play themselves or some version of themselves - ALWAYS, then and now. That's what movie acting is all about."

That's not true, R222. Does Streep? Did DeNiro? Did Gene Hackman? Does Charlize Theron? Did Jeff Bridges? I could go on.

If you don't see all of those actor's personality first, R224, you're not looking. I'd say with the exception of Streep because she had no personality.

r203: Toby Wing! ❤️❤️❤️

R225, what is Jeff Bridges' personality that he brings to every role? Can you'll me? Or better yet, Gene Hackman? What was his overwhelming personality trait that he brought to every role?

*Can you tell me?

R227, it's NOT about an "overwhelming personality trait," you're spinning. It's about their personality, THEM.

So what is Gene Hackman's personality, R229, that makes every role he plays "Gene Hackman"? What do you see in every role payed by Gene Hackman that screamed Gene Hackman? If you can't tell me what makes his personality apparent in EVERY role he does, then I call bullshit to your theory.

R214 has declared me blind, deaf, and dumb - I can't see the posts...... But at least I don't have to look at any more Geraldine Page performances either......

R231, what do you have against Geraldine Page? You ever see Interiors, Sweet Bird of Youth, Summer and Smoke...?

Seen them all......her mannerisms just bother me......she just seems too mannered and by the numbers for me.....

I did laugh at that comedy she made with Carol Burnett decades ago.....she got on the stand in court and was asked her age under oath......LOL.....

R230, you're doing it again. NO ONE said these actors "screamed" anything. You obviously don't get it, I'm through talking to you.

[quote] I did laugh at that comedy she made with Carol Burnett decades ago.....she got on the stand in court and was asked her age under oath......LOL.....

Ffff, ffff, ah, ffffff... SPLAT

No, R234, you're just not supporting what you're asserting.

It’s just fun! Hahmless cahrn!

Somebody should give a toast!

Was Tracey Scoggins a man or a former Olympic athlete? She has man bones and a man jaw.

I LOVE that after a whole week of Primetime, the VERY first thread that gets to the top of the threadwatcher is the Barbara Stanwyck thread. Well done!

R240, Somewhere, Missy is sneering.

I've got a pressing picture, what happened to Stanwyck's lips in the 50's? Is it fillers or bad lipstick appliance? Either way it's distracting.

pressing QUESTION** See, I was distracted.

And another thing that got worse in the 1950s, r242, was the dreadful tic she acquired of licking her lower lip before an important line. Once someone pointed it out, it was all I could see.

"Show us what you inherited from your father. Show us Tom Barkley's guts."

Charles Laughton is the greatest film actor.

No, R246 -- Claude Rains is.

R246 and R247 both died in 1954.

r161 r162 She lived here with Robert Taylor. It's 112 Brentwood acres, directly across the street from the Hart to Hart estate.

R242, it's the lipstick line drawn over the top lip, almost universal for movie females at the time. "Fillers" didn't exist. You may be familiar with this star with an unnatural upper lip:

She was pretty great.

Bump?