Dallas or Chicago?

I like both honestly. They both have pros and cons. I'd decide based on the weather - Chicago winter or Dallas summer - which one would you rather not deal with.

If you can take the cold weather, go to Chicago. I tell you that as a Texan who lived in Dallas several years. It's not a hellhole. There are things to do and see in Dallas. But it in no way compares to Chicago, which I have visited a few times. Chicago is a great city with great museums, lots of history good and bad, absolutely choose Chicago.

Chicago

I live in Seattle now so I’m used to dealing with crappy weather. Dallas has some appeal because of the cost-of-living but I’m not sure I’m too keen on things being so spread out. I think it might be fun to live in a big city for a while… That’s why Chicago has appeal.I don’t know much about the gay scenes and either city. I’m 31 and I’ve lived in the north west pretty much my whole life.

dallas, real cute cheap whores.

u wanna be snowed into ur home for a month? move to shitty chicago

Chicago.

Have lived in both cities. DFW has a sort of inbred arrogance with little reason to back it up.

Chicago

can you deal with this?

dallas

do you want to deal with this?

I'd base it upon your interests. Chicago is a much bigger city with many more arts-related activities - museums, symphonies, operas, theaters - and a thriving gay district. Its architecture is justly world-famous. Dallas has some of those activities and has something of a gay scene, but probably less vibrant on all those counts than Seattle's. However, for the next year, being in the midst of a big city is going to mean that you're going to find it more difficult to socially distance yourself from other people and you won't be able to attend most of those art activities until the scientists have given us the all-clear. Dallas is spread out and most people live in suburbs. Summers are VERY LONG and VERY HOT and VERY HUMID. (Think May to the end of September). It averages 75 days a year over 90 and about 20 days a year over 100. By comparison, Chicago averages only 12 days a year over 90 and zero days over 100. If you live close to the lake shore you might never experience a day over 90 . Chicago is much colder, but in an average year it only goes below zero on 7 days. However, like all of the Midwest, the north winds in winter are bitter, and the weather is very changeable. (Might be 50 one day, and 15 the next). It's not as snowy as people think, but still gets about 35 inches a year. For someone from Seattle, both cities would surprise you with the amount of sun in the fall, winter and spring., the seasons when Seattle is persistently damp and cloudy, but summers will be much cloudier and stormier than Seattle.

Chicago in a heartbeat.

Chicago really isn’t that cold anymore in recent years because of global warming. When it is cold, it’s just here and there - not long stretches anymore. This past winter was our warmest winter ever I believe.

If you want 75 days of 90+ degree weather and humidity a year, then head to Dallas.

Chicago is a mess, I live there. Dallas is the city of the future.

I've lived in Dallas for 12 years (unintentionally) and the summers are_not_ humid, but are very hot and long. Springs and Falls are unpredictable. We had a cool to normal fall and spring this past year, but some years it's 90 in February, sometimes it's 90 in November. It's hard to know what sort of clothes you'll need for any season besides "summer".

[quote]Chicago is a mess, I live there.

If your currently live in Chicago, wouldn’t it be “I live HERE”?🧐

Whoops, now I fucked up. I meant *you.

There’s never a dull moment in Chicago in the summer!

if u ethnic, Chicago

if u not, then Dallas.....

nuff said

I grew up in the DFW area and have no love for the place. I would pick Chicago in a heat beat. Just invest in a good coat.

I have lived in both cities: if I could have Chicago's culture and the friendliness of the people with the weather of Dallas, that would be my dream city.

Chicago. Dallas can be fun for a while, but it gets old, and after a few months you'll start to feel like you're on a remote island of gayness in the middle of a vast ocean of unapologetic evangelical Christianity.

Chicago just has more to do and explore before you'll get bored.

Chicago is cold in the winter, but Dallas is BRUTALLY hot in the summer, and the temperature change 40-60F between 2pm and 2am. It doesn't happen every day, but I vividly remember one day around the end of September in 2000 when it was over 100F in the afternoon, a cold front blew in late afternoon, dumped a foot of rain, then around 4am I had to stumble out of bed and turn on the heat, because the temperature outside plunged down into the 40s or 50s.

Also, the seasonal temperature variation in Dallas is huge as well. Do everything possible to get a house or apartment with dual-stage air conditioner. Otherwise, you'll end up in one of two possible scenarios... either your air conditioner won't be powerful enough to keep the temperature inside from rising a degree every hour or two during the afternoon in the summer when it's 120F+ outside, or it'll be SO egregiously oversized when fall, winter, and spring arrive, it'll run for 10 minutes every 2-3 hours and leave the house feeling stuffy and humid. And make sure it either has a heat pump PLUS auxiliary heat strips, or a heat pump or heat strips plus a furnace. It doesn't happen every year, but Dallas also gets really cold days (like, colder than 20F) every few years. In short, if you live in Dallas, you need a really expensive, very flexible HVAC system that can gracefully handle a range of temperatures realistically spanning more than 100F.

Dallas also gets really violent thunderstorms & hail, with a ferocity and frequency that's almost unheard of elsewhere in the country. And I say that as someone who grew up in South Florida. Miami has days and days of rain & lightning, but Dallas has bigger hail than I've ever seen in my life. Dallas hail will give you a concussion or black & blue marks, and will dent your car badly enough to need repairs.

Dallas has public display of religious affiliation on a scale I've never seen in my LIFE. The bible bangers run the show, and they aren't the least bit shy about making sure everyone knows it. You'll have coworkers ostracize you for going to the "wrong" church, and have people who'll set out to get you fired if you admit to them that you don't go to church at all. Forget about "love the sinner, hate the sin"... they'll just hate you, period, and feel morally righteous about it.

Texas is neurotic about alcohol laws. In most places, "last call" means they can't sell any more. In Texas, deputies show up with a garbage can, and if they see your lips touch the glass, can, or bottle after they arrive... you're going to jail. They have "dry" towns where alcohol can't be sold, right next to towns where 7-Eleven sells vodka. And other cities in the DFW area have stupid rules requiring that you spend 5 minutes filling out a membership application, pay $1, and present 2 forms of ID for the privilege of buying alcohol.

One awesome thing about Dallas: "First Saturday" is a big sidewalk flea market downtown for nerds that starts on Friday before midnight. I absolutely LOVED hanging out there for an hour or two before going out to bars on the Friday night before the first Saturday of the month. But that was pretty much the one bright spot.

R20 Wow that’s really helpful! I guess the only thing that worries me about Dallas is that I’ll be in my car 100% of the time. Here in Seattle I don’t use my car at all. I’m sure I could get used to the cold weather in Chicago. I just looked at the map and my office in Chicago it’s on W. Wacker Dr.… My office in Dallas however is in Plano. It looks like quite a haul from downtown to Plano. I’ve heard that Chicago has a lot of crime. It’s on the southside only right?

Tell me more about the gay scenes. Seattle is very closed off and can be quite unfriendly. Everyone knows you after about six months.… Especially if you live in cap hill.

Rampant Christianity aside, Plano can actually be a pretty nice place to live during the week if you also work there. I personally lived in Plano by Legacy Drive and Preston Road, back when the Tollway used to end just south of there, and Legacy Drive felt more like an extended off-ramp than an actual road. You'll drive a lot, but most of it is pretty painless aside from racking up lots of mileage. One thing Texas did well was plan for future freeways. Fifty years ago, TxDOT went nuts buying up 200-300 foot corridors through rural farmland for future roads, and today you can see them all over the place where there's a 4 or 6 lane road with 200 foot median that will someday be excavated out into a canyon and have a freeway inside. I personally witnessed the construction of the section of the George Bush Turnpike between 635 and the Tollway. It was a sight to behold. Since they already had plenty of land, the actual construction only took them about 2 years once they finally got to it. Likewise, I think SR121 went from being a 2-lane country road to full-blown freeway in something like 3 years. When it comes to roads, Texas doesn't piss around adding a lane or two at a time... it just goes nuts and widens old freeways from 6 lanes to 20, or builds new ones that start out with 8 lanes and room to go up to 24 someday.

Trivia: the phrase, "You can't build your way out of congestion" that some like to throw around is actually an out-of-context quote by someone from TxDOT. The FULL quote was, "You can't build your way out of congestion ONE OR TWO LANES AT A TIME". The guy's argument wasn't that road-widening is futile, it was that if you want to make a visible, durable impact on gridlock, you can't do it with little incremental upgrades... you have to PROFOUNDLY increase the capacity of the road, and every road it touches. Latent demand is huge, but contrary to propaganda, it's NOT infinite... it just feels like it is if you limit yourself to adding a lane or two every decade or so. Widen a 6 lane road to 24, with braided ramps, 2 sets of collector-distributor lanes and another set of express lanes on top of it, and you can shovel a million cars through the area within an hour.

Chicago. And when you get here, pronounce it properly, please.

Chicago, of course. It's brutally cold in the winter but I'd much rather put up with that than live in the soulless, plastic hellhole that is Dallas.

Chicago is a world-class city. Dallas is more in the league of St Louis, Atlanta or Jacksonville.

Houston has the best parts of both.

Chicago. No contest.

R9 raises a solid point OP

How long do you expect to be there? Possibly forever?

But for the next year or maybe even two, living in suburban Plano means social distancing will be much easier and you'll be able to walk outside without risk of running into other people, get in your car and go places without worrying about public transportation, etc

OTOH, the Texas governor is a Trumpist who will try and keep the state open even while putting people at risk so the odds of future outbreaks are much higher.

Plus All Those Good Christians

Chicago

I have visited/worked/stayed in both cities many times. Chicago, without a doubt.

Dallas, of course.

R24 prob says "NewerLEENZ."

Flee, flee, flee Chicago. I've lived here most of my life, and am working on fixing up the house and getting the hell out.

Ted Cruz. John Cornyn. Greg Abbott. Ken Paxton.

NO ONE should want to live in a state that bestows political power on the men named above. No one should want to live in a state that hosts members of the Bush family.

Dallas County has elected an out lesbian sheriff in the recent past, r34. Still, Chicago is the better option for most people.

I've never been to Dallas but have lived in a Chicago suburb for years. I go into the city as much as possible - the only reason I don't live there is financial. You need to be in a higher income bracket than me for that. But transportation - the El and Metro - from the close suburbs make it easy to feel like you live in Chicago. One of the things I love most is that potential Broadway shows open in Chicago. The ones that DON'T make it to Broadway are the most interesting: John Lithgow in Sweet Smell of Success; Bernadette Peters and Martin Short in a musical-I-can't-remember-the-name-of. Of course, they also get the A-team touring companies of Broadway hits. And the Chicago Institute of Art, multiple museums, Navy Pier, and on and on.

Chicago - no contest. The really bad cold temps are for short periods of time. You need to budget in some 'sun-fun' weekend getaways in the winter - it makes Jan and Feb bearable.

Dallas is too spread out, too many Christians, too many Republicans, too many rednecks, and too many people with this weird Texas arrogance. If you're from Seattle, it is going to be a huge culture shock - and not in a good way.

Chicago is vibrant - people in bars and restaurants at all hours of the day and evening. People walking on the street. Dallas? Maybe the weekends. Very much a car town.

And yes - the crime and murders that are constantly reported about in Chicago are in areas you will never go to - they're not really close. You'll have to go out of your way to go to a high-crime area.

Chicago. The riverfront and lake views are beautiful, and there are tons of cultural activities.

Since you asked, Chicago has multiple gay areas - the primary one on Halsted street, but there are enclaves of gay bars in the neighborhoods north of there. Basically, the North side from Diversey up to Evanston (almost) is all pretty gay - miles and miles of neighborhoods to choose from.

Gay pride is obviously huge and is a huge gay/straight acceptance party. There's also Halsted Days, which is another gay outdoor weekend in August. Plus IML in late May (even if you're not into leather, still a lot of gay parties).

Dallas has Oak Lawn - but going outside of there sometimes feels like going into enemy territory. I feel like I have to have my guard up being gay in Texas.

Chicago is a big city, where you will interact or see thousands of people every day of different colors, backgrounds, etc. Nobody's gonna give a fuck if you're gay - they're just going about their business.

In Dallas, you're in a big metro area - which is a far different experience. You do not interact and see thousands of people each day - you're in your car, work, or home. This allows for a lot more bigotry and outright hostility.

Plus, Dallas does not really have any natural beauty - it's flat prairie land. Chicago is flat too, but at least it has a huge lake and tons of beaches. And there are interesting weekend getaways in WI or West Michigan that are close. 2 hours outside of Dallas?

Dallas

Dallas. Nice weather and nice cowboy cock!

R41 - Dallas has neither of those two.

Another vote for Dallas. I'm there for work often. The only thing I don't like is that summers are brutally hot. However, I'd take that over Chicago any day. My little sister lives in Evanston, so I am in Chicago often to visit her, especially since she had a baby a few years ago. There is so much to do in Chicago, you can't deny that. I'd still pick Dallas.

OP, if you can, go spend a week in both places and plan out the things that matter to you - hobbies, etc. You can read about the weather, that part would be a deal breaker for me, but maybe you don't care.

Which do you hate more OP, snow or humidity?

[quote] Dallas is the city of the future.

If you're Trumper trash who needs to have McMansions and Cheesecake Factories everywhere, sure.

[quote] You need to budget in some 'sun-fun' weekend getaways in the winter - it makes Jan and Feb bearable.

Palm Springs.

As wonderful as Chicago is during the a summer, I hate the cold so therefore prefer Dallas. However, your job isn’t in Dallas, it’s in Plano and that is completely different. Plano is extremely suburban so I’d be surprised if you want to live there. If you live in central Dallas you will probably be commuting for about 45 minutes each way.

[quote] The really bad cold temps are for short periods of time.

False. It starts getting brutally cold in October/November and stays brutally cold until April/May. The reason I left was the below freezing temperatures in May 2008.

It isn’t just the cold temperatures; that wind comes off Lake Michigan and it’s like icy daggers slamming into you. Not to mention the snow that can come up to your waist. And you walk to get to the bus or trains. Dear God, standing on the platform for the Red Line, that wind coming through you, trying not to slip on the ice = Hell.

Again, I will take the vicious summer heat of Dallas any day over a Chicago winter happily.

R48 Did you not read what I said? I said “in recent years.” If you left in 2008, that really doesn’t qualify as “recent” in most people’s book.

But if you want to deal with nonstop 90+ degree days and humidity and huge air conditioning bills the majority of the year, go for it.

It's not that humid in north Texas.

Dallas is and always has been shit. Don't buy the Kool-Aid and you won't have to drink it.

Chicago at least is closer to the East Coast. As opposed to Dallas being closer to Lubbock, Houston and, of course, Fort Worthless.

R49 knows what he's talking about. I remember the brutal cold the other poster describes, and I know we've had much milder winters in the past decade.

Also, "brutal cold" is relative. I'm no enthusiast of cold weather and sometimes get very tired of the long winters (however mild they are now relatively), but I'd much rather be chilly than hot or even warm. I tend to keep my coat open all winter, unless it gets down to the mid-to-low 20s.

OP are you a colored man?

"I just looked at the map and my office in Chicago it’s on W. Wacker Dr.… My office in Dallas however is in Plano. It looks like quite a haul from downtown to Plano. I’ve heard that Chicago has a lot of crime. It’s on the southside only right? "

This would make me vote for Chicago. West Wacker right in the heart of the city vs. the suburban hellscape of Plano. I know Plano is wealthy and relatively nice, but isn't it peak upscale white evangelical - not that OP has to live there, but then the commute becomes an issue.

Are you looking to settle down? Chicago would be my vote.

But if you want some of the biggest, fattest married cock on Earth pounding your mussy, I'd do a residence in Dallas for a few years.

[quote] False. It starts getting brutally cold in October/November and stays brutally cold until April/May

LOL!

Only the nelliest prisspot would think October, April or May are "brutally cold" in Chicago.

Yes, it can be brutally cold in January and February, no doubt. But gurl.....no. Not October. Or November, or April, or May.

[quote] But if you want some of the biggest, fattest married cock on Earth pounding your mussy, I'd do a residence in Dallas for a few years

You haven't HAD huge married dick until you've had some good Chicago dick. Especially with the huge population of Polish/Russian men around.

'nuff said

I live in Houston and I'd choose Chicago. Every Dallas dweller I've met is snobby, pretentious, insular and, yes, it's home to tons of megachurches.

R20 describes a Dallas I hardly recognize. And I've lived here my entire life. There's quite a bit of exaggeration in his description, OP. So take it with a grain of salt.

R55 Tell is more. Are there a lot of closet cases in Dallas? And how old were these men and were they attractive or ugly?

R60 So tell us what the Dallas you know is?

R59 - spot on.

So everyone making Dallas a choice is based on weather and fear of a couple months of cold. That's all you need to know.

Coming from Seattle, it will be a huge culture shock to live in Dallas with the overt Christian religiosity, gun racks, rednecks, big hair and makeup, and Texas arrogance. Did I mention all the men wear cowboy boots and have different pairs of them? 'Office' cowboy boots, 'dress' cowboy boots, casual cowboy boots. I'm not making this up.

Plus, driving everywhere all the time. Give me some cold weather for a few months than having to live around vocally hostile, Republican Christians with a limited amount of cultural and entertainment options.

First, the summers here can be brutally hot. But the temperature has never reached 120+ degrees as R20 claims. The highest temperature ever recorded in Dallas is 113 degrees, and that was during our infamous heat wave of 1980. Our summer temperatures are typically in the 90s through June. July and August are usually the hottest months and if we have days that break 100 degrees, that's when they typically occur. The humidity is relatively low, but not low like Vegas or Phoenix. So while it can be hot, the relatively low humidity keeps it from being too stifling. Give me a 100 degree 45% humidity day in Dallas over a 90 degree 70% humidity day in Houston anytime. We do get hail storms here, but they are typically localized and rarely cause major damage. I've lived here for over 50 years and never had a car or roof damaged by hail.

Second, religion does play a significant role in the culture here, but no more so (and maybe even less so) than other places in the south. People might inquire as to where you go to church, but that's just small talk. I've never been "ostracized for going to the wrong church" nor has anyone ever tried to get me fired for not going to church. And I've never seen that happen to anyone else that I've worked with. So R20 is just making that up out of whole cloth.

We do have some strange alcohol laws, but R20 exaggerates that as well. I've never seen deputies show up at closing time and start arresting people for drinking alcohol that they already purchased. Maybe in some podunk town where law enforcement wants to flex its muscle or in an establishment that has a history of violations and the police want to crackdown on them. But if you're at a Dallas bar or club at 2:00 am, the bartenders stop selling/serving drinks at that time, but you're free to consume whatever you have purchased for the 15 minutes following last call. How alcohol is sold in retail establishments and restaurants is bizarre though. It's based on a patchwork of different jurisdictions with different regulations. Some jurisdictions have no restrictions on selling alcohol in restaurants or retail stores. The jurisdiction next door might allow it in restaurants and only beer and wine in stores. Another may allow it only in private clubs (which is what R20 is alluding to) where you have to "become a member of the club" to be served. So a restaurant may have you fill out a form to "join their club", but you see this less frequently now because it's more of a hassle than it's worth. Some places don't allow alcohol sales at all. It would be nice if there was one set of regulations for everywhere.

I like living in Dallas well enough. But I would move somewhere else if the opportunity came along. Not because I think Dallas is horrible. Just because I think I would enjoy experiencing a new place. That being said, Chicago would probably be a better option because the cultural opportunities are more.

That's me (R60) at R64.

‘Big hair and makeup’ hasn’t been a thing in Dallas for a very long time now, like since the 90s. And I don’t know any guy who wears cowboy boots. Also: gun racks? Not common outside of rural areas. I promise you that you will not see a truck with a gun rack parked outside of Neiman Marcus.

Speaking of alcohol laws, I am loving the curbside alcohol sales from restaurant to go orders here in Houston that apparently they are going to allow to remain until further notice. Since we are still following the social distancing for the near future Cinco de Mayo is going to be Tex-Mex with a gallon of margaritas. I know I can make them at home but I like to support my local businesses and alcohol is huge part of this holiday.

That's what I'm saying, R66. So much of what has been said about Dallas in this thread has been either exaggerations or outright bullshit.

Thanks, R60. I’m on the same page as you. I don’t even like Dallas especially— I live in a suburb outside Dallas right now but I grew up in Richardson and used to live in University Park. The stereotypes trotted out on this thread strike me as weird and outdated.

If faced with OP’s dilemma I’m not sure which city I would choose, mostly because even though I like Chicago I can’t tolerate cold at all due to my asthma.

Both of these cities feel like such a downgrade from Seattle and I'm not a huge fan of Seattle. Moving to either of these places is going to seem like a huge culture shock after living on the west coast. Are you just looking for a change? I would stay where you are for the next year, especially if you have a rent controlled place.

[quote] overt Christian religiosity, gun racks, rednecks, big hair and makeup, and Texas arrogance. Did I mention all the men wear cowboy boots and have different pairs of them? 'Office' cowboy boots, 'dress' cowboy boots, casual cowboy boots. I'm not making this up.

Yes, you are. I’ve lived in Dallas for ten years and have never seen any of this.

R70 It sounds like people love Chicago way more than Dallas. I honestly don’t know.. I need to visit both. As I said I grew up in the Northwest.. Bend,OR And I’ve lived in Portland and Seattle my entire life. Moving to either city would be a huge promotion for me. I’m not sure if I’m looking to settle down. I’m 31 years old and I need to get the hell out of NW and see some of the world. There is no culture in Seattle.. AT ALL

OP, tell us what is important to you. I can't speak to Chicago, but I know Dallas well enough that I can give you honest advice as to whether it can meet your needs, interests, and requirments.

I wouldn't be caught dead in Dallas.

[quote] There is no culture in Seattle.. AT ALL

You honestly believe Dallas has more culture than [italic]Seattle?[/italic]

You need your head examined.

[quote]‘Big hair and makeup’ hasn’t been a thing in Dallas for a very long time now, like since the 90s.

Horseshit. The women still wear shit loads of makeup and 70% of the women under 50 wear shitloads of extensions to make their hair look long and thick.

And I don’t know any guy who wears cowboy boots.

R75 Dude I don’t think anything. I have no idea what the hell is in Dallas - culture or otherwise.

Bend OR is more like Chicago weather wise than Dallas. I love Chicago and am from Seattle. I was in the Twin cities for college which is colder than Chicago. I don’t like hot weather so Dallas would be a no..not to mention I think there’s also racism. You can at least bundle up and go out in Chicago and I’ve been there in summer which rocks..beach right there in the city..not far from your office. There’s a great theatre scene in Chicago..way better than Seattle. People are nice in Chicago and you could buy a one bed co-op cheaper than Seattle and could take great public transport too. I think it’s the best architecture city in the country and great restaurants. It’s going to be colder than Bend OR with more storms but they remove it quickly and efficiently. I won’t be surprised if you eventually come back to the NW ..beauty, and progressive politics and low violent crime.

[quote]Horseshit. The women still wear shit loads of makeup and 70% of the women under 50 wear shitloads of extensions to make their hair look long and thick.

Perhaps hanging around trashy 'influencers' has skewed your perceptions.

r74, are you John F. Kennedy?

Count your blessings. People may prefer one or the other - Dallas v. Chicago, but neither is a city where you can't build a life, where you must be miserable.

It's apples & oranges--without details it's really difficult to make an informed recommendation, but I would look at the big picture & then hone in on what is really essential to you & yours--renting/buying, urban/suburban, importance of cultural environment, tax rates of each, etc.

It sounds like it's a really great chance for you to advance within the company, so I would point to the fact that Illinois has had the largest population decline during the past decade, Chicago has the highest tax rate in the country, & "interesting" weather. On the other hand, it's a real city, with lots of cultural/social opportunities, and not as car centric.

On the other hand, Plano has one of the highest city income levels in the country, taxes are relatively low, Texas in general is business-friendly, and has, as everyone knows, a staggering population inflow recently. But Texas also has "interesting" weather--you should be in the middle of tornado at night some time . . . if you can be a big kahuna in a little pond in Plano, you should go for it and make/save as much money as you can. Not knowing any further details about your situation, I'd say put on your big boy pants & tough it out in Plano until you can move up again the in company, to somewhere more desirable.

OP, it sounds like culture is important to you, so I think the choice there is clearly Chicago over Dallas. One of the best symphonies in the world, one of the greatest art museums in the world, one of the best opera companies in the nation, much better film, much better bookstores.

Dallas will be a big step down in most ways culturally from Seattle. They do have a world-class museum in the area (the Kimball in Fort Worth), but otherise it's not a very cultural place.

Dallas unless you want to run into Jussie Smollett.

Dallas. Chicago is a shithole. It has a severe inferiority complex with New York. It's in the shithole state of Illinois. It's also a blue city in a red state basically. Chicago is made up of a bunch of queens that move there from other small midwestern cities. At least Dallas is a large southern city that has it's own identity and doesn't try to be anything other than what it is. There are super hot men in Dallas. There are no celebrities in Chicago. Nothing glamorous. Just a bunch of very depressed people. And unless you live in a few certain areas, you do need a car. Yes there are some cute buildings and museums and shit in Chicago but there are all these fat midwestern hogs from Missouri coming in to look at them. Dallas.

Chicago. I loathe the intense heat and humidity of Dallas.

[quote] There are no celebrities in Chicago.

An enormous deficit when choosing which city to live in, given how important regular sightings of them are to ordinary people's lives! And Dallas is absolutely chock-full of them!

Now that Neiman-Macrus is closing, where will you get your Prada?

R87 Chance the Rapper? Vince Vaughn? that's a celebrity?

As a native Dallasite, I have to agree with R83 if culture is important to you OP. Chicago wins there. Although he sells Dallas' cultural offerings short. Dallas does have a pretty good symphony and an opera company, but not on the level of Chicago's. The Dallas Museum of Art and the Nasher Sculpture Center are nice museums, as are the ones in Fort Worth. But they're not the Chicago Art Institute. And Chicago has a more interesting history and architecture.

Is culture all that is important to you, OP? Are there other aspects that you want to consider?

R90 please don't undersell yourself.

I'm not underselling, R91. Dallas has many fine cultural offerings. I enjoy the DSO and the museums as much as anyone. But compared to Chicago, they are on a different level, in my opinion.

R92 I understand.

Chicago, not even close.

They are such different cities and different people want different things. Some hate hot Summers, others hate cold Winters. Some want walkability over space, others are happy to drive their car to get more space. Some like Texas pride, others find it off-putting. Both cities have large, diverse populations and plenty to offer.

Actually R95 makes the most intelligent connection. How can you compare two completely opposite cities?

Is it true Dallas has no walkable neighborhoods?

Seattle has a lot of culture - what are you talking about OP? Seattle Opera, Seattle Symphony, Pacific Northwest Ballet, lots of museums, lots of theater groups, lots of cultural offerings at the University of Washington, poetry readings, comedy clubs, jazz clubs, But as someone else said, if you are finding Seattle deficient in culture, you will DEFINITELY find Dallas deficient in culture and Chicago will have a lot more to offer for you. I'm from the Northwest too. I did several residencies in Dallas at SMU, and my sister lived in Chicago for several years. I found Chicago a much more interesting place to visit, and the people more comprehensible to me. Midwesterners are different from Northwesterners, it's true, but South Central people (Dallas to Oklahoma City) are a breed unto themselves. I think an outgoing person can make friends anywhere he lives eventually, by selecting people with similar views and interests, but it would take longer for most people to assemble such a group of friends in Dallas than in Chicago.

Dallas absolutely has visibly-dominant evangelical Christianity on a scale & in ways you'll absolutely NEVER see in L.A., NY, or South Florida. It exists in those areas, but people publicly tone it down. It Dallas, it all hangs out, loudly & proudly.

[quote]much better bookstores

Dallas has better adult bookstores though ;-)

Being a New Yorker, I’d choose Chicago. Texans freak me out.

You made me laugh R101. Why do Texans (btw, I'm one) freak you out?

Some people are nervous about crime in Chicago, but the threat is way overstated.

As with any city, a rube might be pickpocketed in a high volume tourist area. But most of Chicago is very safe. And there's more to Chicago than the sliver of city one sees downtown.

There are gang neighborhoods and those are where 98 percent of the shootings happen. They are generally far north or far south, and not in neighborhoods that are popular for midlevel professionals.

If anything, the one thing that would knock Chicago out of the running for many is the cost of renting or owning in the city. We were lucky to buy low after the recession and sell a bit higher a few years back, but honestly, it's so expensive to buy and some neighborhoods rival NYC for rental costs (the trendy West Loop can be 3500 for a 750 sqf studio) so to find affordable things, you might have to go farther into the city or even into a neighboring town like Oak Park.

No contest. Chicago.

R102, the effusiveness, mainly. The Texans I know best are women and they’re very nice, but generally over the top.

I want to hear more about the big cocks in Dallas.

I've spent a lot of time in Dallas for work, and I was surprised how much I liked it, though as others have said, it isn't Chicago.

Something else to consider though is moving from Washington to Texas is a wash income tax wise (as in 0%). Prepare go take a 4.95% pay cut (in addition to the higher cost of living) if you move to Chicago.

I think the "Let's Be Texas or Texans" thread is something to consider.

Why would Texans freak anyone out? You can't be serious. Look at who you Texans elected to be your Governor. And your Attorney General. And your Senators. And then there is Louie Gohmert. And now you're grooming yet another Bush for a political career.

Any one of them could be elected anywhere. But all of them? No. That is not right. Something is deeply rotten in Texas. And it ought to be put right.

I'd choose Dallas because I already live in Minneapolis.. and I've had enough of this style of city for now.

R109, yeah, we have bad politicians like many states do. We also have Betos and gay mayors.

R111 - you understate the issue. Mayors have no impact on state laws. Beto is not in office anymore. Texas is fucked up politically and has more in common with Oklahoma and South Carolina (not good company) than it does Washington state.

This shows the environment someone will be moving into, despite any blue enclaves that may exist. It's a hostile, backward, Republican political environment that rules the majority of the state and reflects its citizens. Personally, I feel it whenever I'm in Texas and can't wait to leave.

We feel the same whenever you're in Texas, R112.

R113 - well, whatever fight you've been fighting for 35 years, you clearly have lost.

No one cares R112. That's your prerogative to feel that way and ours to have negative feelings for other states. Personally, I loathe Missouri.

[quote] There are no celebrities in Chicago.

Who fucking cares?

Chicago has celebrities. I know people who live there and they run into the Cusack's all the time.

Chicago doesn't care about celebs. Shit, I used to see Oprah a few times a year on the street. Like LA and NYC, you don't make a fuss.

What makes the guys in Dallas hot?

I'd move to Chicago, I love it. Texas is low on my list and you could always move there if you wanted to.

My partner's mother is from Texas. Been there visiting his extended family. No thanks.

[quote] Liberal fighting the good fight in Texas for 35 years

You need to up your game, baby. Or find another game that better suits your skills and abilities.

OP, you live in Seattle but said you want to move to a big city? Huh?

I'm in Seattle, too. Maybe figure out what you don't like about it here. The greys can be difficult and cost of living is insane, but if you're at all into culture, food, ocean, mountains, it's hard to beat Seattle and its surroundings.

If you're living in, like, Issaquah and watch Netflix, then by all means, Dallas is right for you.

[quote]The greys can be difficult

Is Seattle being overrun with alien abductions?

R122, how bad do you find the Seattle Freeze?

Seattle is much better than Chicago. If you are going to move to the midwest there are other cities to move to that are much better. Chicago is NOT it.

Seattle is better than Chicago for outdoor activities, East Asian food and coffee. Not sure if there's anything else.

R125 Well I really don’t have a choice. My company only has offices in Chicago... in the midwest. When you’ve lived in Washington and Oregon your whole life… It’s like being in a bubble. I for one don’t understand people’s obsession with Seattle. As far as the Seattle freeze goes… It probably applies more to folks that are not from here. I’ve known the same people pretty much my whole life. We are a reserved an introverted bunch.

R122.. Figure out what I don’t like about it? Lol.. My family moved here when I was 6 years old.. I didn’t drop in to work for Amazon two years ago. That was 25 years ago before Seattle was on anybody’s radar. My brother lived on Republican in a one bedroom apartment for $350 a month… That’s how long we’ve lived here. It’s a small town masquerading as a big city

Oh.. I grew in Wallingford .. hardly Issaquah lol

Dallas. No income tax. One of The highest if not number 1 in job growth for several years now. Great infrastructure. Beautiful falls, mild winters (just just a touch of cold once or twice a season), nice, but stormy springs - though sever weather seems to be moving a bit north now), and 2 fucking miserable months (July and August). Dallas Country is deep blue now, and the inner ring burbs are now purple.

Illinois is broke. Chicago is in the middle of gang wars.

'But Chicago has no celebrities!' 'There's just nothing glamorous!' Are these really factors a sane person would consider when choosing between cities? For the 99.9998% of us who are not aspiring makeup artists, I would answer, NO. Weather, Evangelicalism, sure.

A lot depends too upon income; buying property in Chicago vs. Dallas will likely involve a very different commitment of financial resources.

If you have to ask, you should go to Dallas.

Are you an introvert or extrovert? I would imagine that Dallas would be better for extrovert and Chicago for introverts.

Texas has some of the highest property taxes and sales taxes in the country. They tax everything, including food and medication. They got to get money somehow.

Having lived in Dallas for several years, I say Chicago. It's more interesting, sophisticated, more like a Northeastern city.

If you like the hot weather, go with Dallas. You can play tennis outdoors year round but some months you need to start really early.

There were some great Texans but it could be scary, too. There were some heavy duty rednecks. Chicago is more diverse.

IF you hate the cold...and I mean the bitter cold...stay the fuck out of Chicago.

You could not choose 2 more polar opposite climates - Dallas is miserably HOT and Chicago miserably COLD (unless you get out of town for a few months a year). Both are great cities in their own respective ways otherwise, but neither will ever be LA or NYC. The biggest issue with the Dallas heat is that you have no ocean or even a cooling breeze to try to help alleviate that oven-like, Hellish summer. The problem with Chicago is that you do have a giant lake that whips up arctic, "Siberian" winds that can rip you in half during the already grueling winters.

People have outlined the pros and cons. They're very different. You'll do fine in either.

R134 is wrong. Medicines and groceries are not taxed. Only prepared foods (restaurants, fast food, etc.) is taxed.

Unless you live and work in Plano, a predominately white Christian and conservative suburb you will be in your car all the time. Summers are hot. (In your car) Zero walkability (in your car) Hail storms (in your car). Sure the highways are nice with toll roads. But having to drive for even the smallest reason wears you down. There is still the "full makeup to the grocery store" look but not like it was 20 years ago. I have seen people shamed for the "wrong church" thing. JR's in Oak Lawn is the place to start, but it's a long drive from Plano. Lots of closet cases, I worked with a few.

LOL the Chicago cost of living trolls. He's coming from Seattle. Look at Zillow or something, and you'll find plenty of 750 sf condos in the Loop, Boystown, on the lake for under $300K, all near the El. OP, given your office location, you wouldn't even need a car, parking, gas, insurance.

One thing to remember, and I say this as someone who grew up in Bellevue before moving to Chicago for school and first six years of work, there are two weather phenomena that take a while to get used to, especially if you bike or run: humidity and wind chill. And it took me two years to get used to not seeing the mountains around. But it is an awesome in every respect, and I'd move back if I had some good work prospect there.

Dallas, I've been to several times, and while perfectly fine to visit, I can't imagine enjoying life there as much, let alone commuting to Plano every day.

r139 Darling, check your receipt the next time you go to the grocery store. I live in Texas and I know they are taxed.

^^ In the state of Texas, food products like flour, sugar, bread, milk or produce are not taxable. However, other items that you might purchase at the grocery store, such as paper products, pet food, shampoo or greeting cards are subject to sales tax. Alcoholic beverages like beer and wine are also taxable.

So Lakeview is the gay neighborhood in Chicago? Any suggestions for other neighborhoods.. to live?

I've always loved this Moderne building in the Gold Coast neighborhood of Chicago (one of the best if you are looking to be IN the city):

Chicago has legal weed, Dallas does not.

The summer I lived in Dallas (after growing up in Florida) was when I learned, "never, EVER set foot on pavement while barefoot during the summer... not even "two hops" to grab the garbage can. I ended up with first-degree burns on my feet, and a second-degree burn on my right heel. Even the *grass* felt hot. By July, I could feel the heat from the pavement through my shoes.

Another gripe: I'm pee-shy... and Oak Lawn bars just *loved* urinals. Half the time, my limiting factor when I'd go out was my bladder, because all the bars (at least, JRs, Round Up, and TMC) had only urinals & door-free stalls.

Fun Fact: the metropolitan Chicago area ALSO has an Oak Lawn. It's a well-established, solidly middle-class southwest suburb.

Weed is nasty, R146. Calling it 'weed' is worse yet. Strictly down market.

Oh go have another appletini, r149

I think the University of Chicago brings more intelligent people. Just seems to have better museums, smarter people. But people with a drawl can be intelligent too.

R144 - the gay neighborhoods extend all the way up the lake. Lakeview, Uptown, Andersonville, Edgewater, and Rogers Park all have visible and large gay populations. There's a variety of housing stock and prices available. You'll want to be by the Red/Purple line train line for commuting or close to the downtown express buses. Or you can branch out a bit on the brown line - there are a lot of gay-friendly neighborhoods along that train route as well, but less of a 'scene'.

If you go West of downtown, the hipster areas of Wicker Park and Bucktown are also very gay friendly, although not necessarily the epicenter of gay life. This area is most like Capitol Hill in Seattle. Pricier than the neighborhoods mentioned by the lake.

Chicago has recreational MJ?? Hmm I might have to move.

[quote] Any suggestions for other neighborhoods.. to live?

South Loop, West Loop, Old Town, etc. I'm sure there are others but these are the neighborhoods I would want to live in, in a few years when I am more financially stable.

One thing to note on those 170K-250K condos. Most of them are in buildings with high association fees. The one I looked at was 170K for a 2 bed 1 bath nice building good space but 717 a month in association fees!

R155 - that's cheap for a 2BR maintenance fee in any part of the US. My 1BR had $680 maintenance and $165 parking fee. Co-op buildings are 50-80% more, so I would avoid those.

Many of the Chicago maintenance fees include quite a bit - water, trash, cable, internet, heat, etc. That's not normal in other cities.

Yeah, R156, it's really important to know what's included. If there's utilities included, that makes an enormous difference.

Brown is so close to red until Lakeview that it’s not a problem r152. They cross paths and people easily jump between the two during their commutes.

It's usually a lot warmer in Dallas than it is in Chicago. Hope this helps!

R158 - yeah, but I don't necessarily recommend south of Diversey, only because it's pricey and not as gay. I lived in Lincoln Park for many years - lots of frat brothers and sorority sisters. Hell, Lakeview has been overrun with soccer moms.

You get a lot more for your money further north and the commute is only a few minutes longer. I definitely would not recommend the Loop, South Loop, or Old Town either. They are nice, but expensive and there's not as much of a neighborhood feel.

Chicago: I love the frat boys. Easy cock for the dL bro’s and they are usually nicely dressed and fit. Frat boys are fun to hangout with once you’ve been invited into their group, thanks to hot female friends. Most of the north side is gay friendly, so if would just get the most bang for your buck.

Have you considered Wrigleyville?

Which city would be my best bet at finding a rich gay man to marry me?

Can any self-respecting gay with an ounce of common sense please explain to me why they would want to live in a backwards shithole with anti-gay laws?

R164 - well, that's what most of us have been saying, but y'know - it has some warm weather, so that makes everything ok (or preferable) to some people on this thread.

r164 they can try all they want - gay marriage is legal on a federal level.

If you are single and a tad slutty go for Chicago. There is always a good looking man to have sex with around every corner. Texas has too many prissy queers.

Chicano. Not even close.

I'm use to live in Chicago. I've worked by Wacker Drive. Very chic. Them crisp Autumn evenings in Chicago were always my favorite. The nicest ppl around.

I’m gonna go spend a week in both places… Take my laptop with me. What other areas should I check out in Dallas… Outside of Oaklawn?

R170 - neither would be representative of true life with the whole COVID thing going on. Deserted cities and no bars, restaurants, theaters, music venues, etc. open.

OP, in Dallas, check out Bishop Arts District, Lakewood, and Uptown. None of which are anywhere close to Plano.

Chicago's Boyztown.

[quote] Can any self-respecting gay with an ounce of common sense please explain to me why they would want to live in a backwards shithole with anti-gay laws?

Because they don't like cold. That's it. That's all there is to it. They will eat any shit thrown at them, so long as they don't have to encounter cold air. Morons.

OP, you'll definitely need to drive around Plano. Explore the highway/tollway system, as you'll be spending a lot of time there.

Op, the idea of having to drive all over to get to stuff is no longer attractive to me, unless I’m moving to LA or San Diego, since I’ve moved to Chicago. Life in Plano sounds like suburban hell. To each their own, but I need variety in my life, which the land of Olive Gardens and Cheesecake Factories doesn’t provide.

OP, if you will be working on W Wacker Drive in Chicago (not to be confused with E Wacker Drive, N Wacker Drive or S Wacker Drive - all of which are the same street, along with Lower Wacker, of course), besides the bus and L connections (with a CTA L stop across the river at the Merchandise Mart) you are within walking distanced of the 2 big train stations for the Metra Stops.

This should expand your options for choices of where to live.

Close in suburbs, Oak Park, for example, might be to your liking. Sometimes a Metra commute is shorter than the CTA. And, air conditioned in the hot weather.

There are also the Chicago Water Taxi lines that use the river for commuting too. I've used that as a way to get from the Metra station to Michigan Ave. On a beautiful day, the river trip was wonderful and beat the road traffic for sure.

I'd pick Chicago. You really don't need a car in Chicago like you do in Dallas. Plus, that fucking humidity in Dallas is hellish and year round.

If you choose Chicago, you could always find a place across the river in the iconic Marina City.

R177 What’s the difference between Metra and the L?

Metra is for the burbs going into the city, L is for the city and parts of the north burbs.

is dallas more white? jus asking.....

R182, it's very Mexican. And the suburbs have tons of diversity, loads of Indians, Chinese, etc.

My nyc friend just transferred to Dallas, expected to hate it but is enjoying it. However, as an asian she knows that not so far outside of Dallas it’s shitkicker/redneckville and she will get the staredown. It does help if they will transfer a NY/CA salary amount there as housing is really cheap.

Forgot to mention, Chicago has a good transit system but in a pandemic you may not want to rely on it. Dallas the driving you hate also keeps you socially distant.

R4 You say you want to live in a big city, like Dallas is small. They are both huge cities. Why leave Seattle in the first place?

For a little population comparison, the Seattle metro area population is 4 million, the Dallas Fort Worth metro area is 7.5 million, and the Chicago metro area is 10 million. Density would be calculated by comparing population to area. Chicago metro is about 6000 square miles, Dallas metro is about 9000 square miles, and Seattle is about 6000 square miles. Seattle and Dallas metro areas are both about half as dense as Chicago metro area. Seattle feels more densely populated than Dallas, mostly because it is so hilly and there are lots of areas within it that can't be built on because of the steepness of the terrain. . Dallas area is as flat as a pancake.

R186 It’s an amazing career opportunity that I would be a fool to turn down. Plus as I’ve said in many other responses that I’m tired of living in the northwest.. I grew up here. I’m not some asshole that read a magazine on Seattle and landed here two years ago with stars in my eyes. Dallas and Chicago are my only options. So far all the responses have been awesome. I’m going to book trips to both places and check things out for myself.

I'm always shocked R183 at the number of Indians in Irving every time I go. Just makes me curious why it became a "go to" destination.

R189, there are tons of IT jobs in Dallas which attracts South Indians in large numbers. So there you go :-) (it's a stereotype but true).

Is Lower Wacker still spooky and dangerous and (paradoxically) fun to drive?

Love the winter, love the snow. Chicago in a heartbeat.

100% Chicago

R181

[quote] Metra is for the burbs going into the city, L is for the city and parts of the north burbs.

Not really, R181.

Metra has stops starting in the city, out past the city limits to near in and farther out suburbs.

The L (the CTA) while is mainly for the city, goes (1) north past the city limits (at Howard St) and through northern suburbs up to Wilmette. (2) west past the city limits with stops in Oak Park and slightly beyond.

Oak Park, has 2 L lines and Metra stop

The L's Purple line has 7 stops in Evanston.

So in some near in suburbs transportation choices include both Metra and the L.

R191

[quote] Is Lower Wacker still spooky and dangerous and (paradoxically) fun to drive?

Lower Wacker has been expanded eastward and so covers more territory.

It can be fun to drive because knowing the ins and outs of the lower level is only for true Chicago drivers.

Lower Wacker Drive use to hobo central. But the city has gotten rid of them shit stains. LWD Is swifter to get from point A to point B than downtown streets proper. But the GPS doesn't work down there so u better know where you're gonna get off at.

About Lower Wacker - I love this bit...

[quote] Now add all that confusion to the fact that its tight walls and ominous pillars make driving Lower Wacker feel a bit like making a run on the Death Star exhaust port.

[quote] Lower Wacker is the best navigation hack in the City of Chicago. It’s an expressway running under the Loop. In the middle of rush hour you can get from LSD to Ogilvie or 290 in less than 7 minutes. Yet, Wacker remains under-trafficked and is seemingly immune to gridlock because 90% of folks driving in the city don’t know how to get on it and, once you get there, it’s kinda scary.

The Blues Brothers chase scene through Lower Wacker Drive...

I love that Marina city building and what a location...that deep dish pizza right there at Due river north!

Why no poll, you lazy bitch?

What do you guys know about Naperville, Oak Park and Evanston?

R200, this is really interesting, but I have basically lived in all three of those areas consecutively. Moved to Oak Park from Naperville. Now live on the far north side right on the border of Evanston and the city. Don't move to Naperville, it is far west and it's one hour or more from the city. Unless you want a large house with a lawn and kids with a great school system. Oak Park and Evanston are similar in ways. Both have fantastic architecture and good schools as well but I have to give the nod to Evanston. The architecture in Evanston is more diverse whereas the best stuff in Oak Park is mainly Frank Lloyd Wright. Walking in both neighborhoods can be a lot of fun just to look at the houses. Also, Evanston is on the lake while Oak Park definitely is not. You can take the green line, blue line or Metra to get into Chicago from Oak Park. Evanston has the purple line, I"ve never really taken it so I can't comment and they probably have a metra stop too.

My cousins lived in Evanston for around a decade and I visited them a few times on my trips to Chicago. I loved Evanston and would definitely live there if I settled down in the Chicago area. I found a lot of it (most of it?) pedestrian-friendly with great public transport links, lovely architecture and access to the lake.

Evanston has a new crop of hot, smart, Northwestern students that head up there every year. Yum!

Naperville is outer suburbs - no thanks. R201 is right about how similar Evanston and Oak Park are - but, for me, Evanston wins. University town, good public transportation, on the lake, and you don't have to go through any bad neighborhoods to get downtown.

Oak Park is great - but, the downtown is smaller, transportation into the city isn't as good and you have to travel through some of the worst neighborhoods in Chicago to get into the city. It's very pretty and not a bad option, but it isn't Evanston.

I would think OP would want to live in the city proper.

r204 is correct about Oak Park, but most people would avoid the bad neighborhoods, drive during the daytime or take the freeway or Metra, avoid the L from there. You really shouldn't have any issues unless you are intentionally driving past Garfield Park, but there would be no reason to do that if your trying to quickly get to the city. You can go north or south of the crime areas like most people.

Evanston is so much better. I would also consider Genco or Highland Park if you want space, beautiful liberal suburban "paradise" with cheaper taxes than Evanston. Evanston is in Cook County, Highland Park, and a small part of Glenco, is in Lake County. You can take Metra all the way downtown from Highland Park, they have cute little train stations that make me smile. It's all so Leave It to Beaver or Pleasantville. Personally, I would live closer to the city since you sound single and choose Lakeview (friendly gay area with wonderful homes (expensive)/apartments (affordable)) or up in the burbs like Evanston.

Don't count out Edge Water or Andersonville if you want affordable city life on the north side, it's right above Lakeview. Tons of variety in the Chicago area compared to Dallas.

What about Winnetka?

We really need to talk about the Chicago suburbs and rank the good ones and read the others to filth, as only DL can do.

R204, I agree with everything you said except the part about Oak Park having worse access to Chicago. I think getting from Oak Park to downtown is actually easier, especially if you live near the Oak Park Green line station like I did. You can take that directly into downtown and be in the west loop in about 30 minutes. Not bad at all. And if you live close to I-290, you can take the Blue Line Oak Park to downtown in a similar amount of time. Both Evanston and Oak Park have the Metra. Evanston having the lake makes it better than Oak Park automatically for me. And Evanston is very close to Skokie, Rogers Park and Edgewater which are the most diverse neighborhoods in the city with the restaurants to show for it.

[quote] Don't count out Edge Water or Andersonville if you want affordable city life on the north side, it's right above Lakeview.

Agreed. I live in Roger's Park. Edgewater and Andersonville are cool areas. All three have tons of older gays and some young ones too. The far north side of Chicago is the most diverse area. A utopia for food delivery :-) .

Elder gays seem to move up to Edgewater and Andersonville for affordable housing. This created a other pockets of strong gay communities up there. Op, unlike Dallas, most of Chicago is gay friendly or accepting. Our mayor is even a lesbian.

If you move to TX please register to vote ASAP!

R 206 yes lol.. go for it!

Are there specific parts of Andersonville and Edgewater that are better than others? It would help if it was a short walk to train and shopping.

R211, just live near a red line stop and you'll be sit. I like Edgewater a bit more than Andersonville since it has Argyle street (i.e Vietnamese Town).

*set

Dallas has complex, unique qualities to itself that you won't find anywhere else that people either love or hate. Chicago is more of a world-class traditional city, lots going on and is quite beautiful.

Dallas is newer and Chicago is older, both feel that way at least.

Also based just on the weather I think the general quality of life would be better in Dallas. Dallas is in a dry area of Texas and mostly does not get humid, just hot.

Dallas is very humid.

as someone who grew up in TX and still lives in Dallas, I say GO TO CHICAGO!!!! please please for God's sake........

I would definitely say Chicago. Those boys are hung.

I'm not R215, but I agree, Dallas isn't humid, just hot. It isn't Houston.

R217 You're like the 20th person to say this. What the Hells in the water up there

Plus, R193, in Evanston, the El and Metra are right next to each other at two stops - Main, Dempster, and Davis. Evanston and Oak Park have great transit,

Whoops, I meant just Main and Davis.

I think summer in Chicago is humid too?

It is, but not anywhere consistently as bad; especially if you live relatively close to the lake. So, yeah, it can get miserably muggy as in Dallas, but not as often and not for as long - and usually quite as intense.

I meant "usually not quite as intense."

Whats the drag scene like in Chicago?

As dead as it is everywhere else, R225

R226 Well of course that goes without saying. What was it like?

r220 I'm honestly not trying to be a cunt, but most will just say "L" not "EL". I'm a Chicago transplant that had to learn that myself. They even put it on the signs, so I know they drop the E. BUT, EL does work for the actual elevated portions. "L" is used to describe the entire "subway/elevated rail" system. Most people in the city will type "L".

Again, not trying to be an ass just trying to help, since I sent a few text messages with "EL" and was corrected. OP, please come to Chicago!

r219 Chicago has a lot of Scandinavians that must have brought their big dicks over in the 19th century. Also, beefy midwest boys seem to have meet swinging between their legs. It is like a little hub for all American boys with nice sized cocks. You won't be disappointed.

I've seen the L and the el. I've always typed el and so has everyone else I know, but it's honestly six of one and half dozen of another.

OP, if you move to Chicago, know that there will ALWAYS be a small group of people (and R228, maybe you have experienced this too) that want to tell you all about what a "real Chicago" person will do. They are preoccupied with what you should or should not be eating, especially what you are putting on your hot dogs and what condiments you are using.

Most of those people are fat suburbanites who talk like the old "da Bears" sketch on SNL and you should tell all of them to BLOW IT OUT THEIR ASS.

Chicago. Not even close.

r230 I stated the distinction between the two. Apparently I've ruffled your feathers despite trying very hard to share what I knew to be correct without sounded like an ass. Op, you will also encounter people like r230 with a chip on their shoulders and can't disagree with someone without getting nasty.

Here is a document about the "L" from CTA. Open the image and you will see how they refer to their own system. Also, OP if you haven't looked at the map, this will help give you an idea of the general system. Boystown is near the Belmont stop where the Brown, Purple, and Red line meet heading north.

I grew up in Oak Park and went to college (undergrad and grad) in Evanston (Northwestern). I love both. Transit to the Loop is equally convenient (and both lines pass through some dangerous neighborhoods, but neither as dangerous as the ones to Hyde Park). Evanston has the lake, proximity to the gayberhoods, and the artistic offerings of NU. It is also has college students—6000+. There neighborhoods where they do not dominate, but those rentals can be pricey. Oak Park feels (and is) smaller, but has architectural pleasures, liberal/gay-friendly attitudes, and a sense of genuine community. It’s more of a trek from there to Boystown and you’d need a car to do it, as the set of L trains you’d need to use would be close to an hour—and less safe after last call. I also lived in Rogers Park, cheaper than Evanston, definitely feels urban than suburban (even on different sides of Howard Street. I’m not using urban euphemistically by the way to make a racial/racist distinct—one really does feel like a suburb (with the landscape and greenery that goes with it), the other more dominated by businesses and high density residences. Oak Park and Evanston feel different from other suburbs because they have a sense of history, tradition, and community. Oak Park has done a better job of integration, going back to the60s. Evanston still has a “black neighborhood—not a ghetto by any means, but still a bit segregated. I move back to either in a heartbeat.

Of Naperville and the like, we do nor speak.

I loved living in Oak Park, lived there from 2015 through the end of 2018. I had a studio for about $950 a month that was about a 8 minute walk from the Oak Park green line stop. The one thing that did suck was, yes, that commute to the far north side of the city was LONG if you took the El. One hour is not an exaggeration.

R228/R232 I don't know WHAT your problem is - I had no attitude and was not saying ANYTHING to you about the way you spelled el/L. My comment in the next paragraph was just about the Chicago locals in general who always want to tell someone about "real Chicago."

WHY did you come back to be such a cunt to me?

Fuck r235/r230, I totally misread your comment in a negative light and though you were calling me out. I look straight stupid now. I sincerely apologize.

No worries R236. Misunderstandings happen. We'll blame it on the damn rona ; - )

But to add to my post at R230, Chicagoans love to argue about sort of random, petty shit. Another one I forgot to mention is neighborhood boundaries. Ask 6 people where XYZ neighborhood begins and ends and then just walk away for 2 days, because those bitches will STILL be arguing about it days later! LOL

[quote] Oak Park feels (and is) smaller, but has architectural pleasures, liberal/gay-friendly attitudes, and a sense of genuine community.

I loved the city itself and wished I could live there. I used to attend church there and I hear there was even a gay bar at one time! Loved the cute little downtown area.

Couldn't convince the BF to move there, though - very little in the way of modern-ish or ranch houses. (Affordable ones, anyway - the River Forest ones were a mil and a half.) If you love Victorians and Craftsman houses you are in luck!

You should choose Texarkana! Way better than either of the liberal elite hellholes. We are love our food and our president. Don’t need none of them yuppie museums or people who exercise!

[quote] Oak Park feels (and is) smaller, but has architectural pleasures, liberal/gay-friendly attitudes, and a sense of genuine community.

And you can get from there to the Loop in one fell swoop, in far less time - maybe 30 minutes, slightly more at rush hour - than most suburban trains, which are usually anywhere between an hour to 90 mins.

^^^ Sing it with me, won't you?

"R239 is proud to be an asshole from El Paso . . ."

hee hee

It’s 52° in 100% humidity in Chicago today. What does that feel like?

Ran, it feels like rain.

Cold R243.

Is November a good time to move?

R246 to.. Chicago?

Chicago sounds a lot more lively.

84 shot, 23 fatally, over Chicago’s most violent weekend of 2020, which also saw widespread protests, riots and looting throughout the city in the wake of the Minneapolis police killing of George Floyd.

More than half of the weekend’s victims were shot on Sunday as the city reeled from violent protests Saturday night that led to hundreds of arrests and the implementation of a curfew.

god neither.

well.....dallas, less sleet/snow/flu....

Have lived in both, in Dallas now so here are my casual, likely worthless observations: about them both:

Dallas: In growth overdrive with a LOT of transplants and immigrants. Still not quite a Great American City (not yet?). Hot in the summer months but not unbearable - it's not New Orleans or even Houston. Generally happy people, even the loathsome 'publicans.

Chicago: Fantastic, world-class city. Brutal winters occasionally but gorgeous, often stunning spring, summer and fall months. Though the natives have a kind of hostile brittleness that can be, to put it mildly, off-putting.

It's Chicago. One of my favorite places I've ever been to.

Beware the red line in Chicago. Even in the daytime. More crime on that line than any other. The Northside has been changing for years now and is less safe with all the gang transplants from the West side. The Northside looks a lot like the westside now too sadly. I do like Bucktown. I'd love to move to that neighborhood. If you ever go hang out in Chicago, go to Uptown Lounge (in Uptown) and ask for Mike. He's really fun and knows all the good places.

Op the Northside of Chicago is still considered safe. The pockets of "rougher" areas have been that way for decades. Tons of people take the Red Line on a daily basis without any issues. Is it as gentrified as the Brown Line? No, because it's like the main artery of the city's transportation system that runs the length of the city. Just stick to the normal rules of urban life, don't make eye contact with strangers, mind your business and personal items, sit where you are most comfortable/safe, don't be afraid to change cars when needed.