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Ben Shapiro: An 81-Year-Old Dying of COVID-19 is Not the Same as a 30-Year-Old Dying of It — WATCH

Daily Wire editor Ben Shapiro suggested that a 30-year-old life was worth more than an 80-year-old life in a discussion with Dave Rubin on Wednesday about when the coronavirus lockdowns should be rolled back.

Said Shapiro: “Nobody just wants to say the obvious truth, which is we’re all making actuarial deductions about what are the costs in terms of how many human lives, how many years of life, because that is an actual issue in actuarial tables. If somebody who is 81, dies of Covid-19 that is not the same thing as somebody who is 30 dying of Covid-19. … If grandma dies in a nursing home at age 81, and that’s tragic and that’s terrible, also the life expectancy in the United States is 80. So, that is not the same thing. In moral terms, you want to save every life you can. At the same time, to pretend that it is of the same, it is the same calculation, the age of the person, no public policy acts like that, not a single public policy in America acts like that.”

Writes Mediaite: “Shapiro’s notable sang froid about elderly people being struck down by the coronavirus stands in stark contrast to his tone several years ago, when wrote an anti-Obamacare piece for the far right website, Breitbart, that was not-so-subtly titled ‘The Death Panels Are Coming.’ In that piece, Shapiro railed against the prospect of the Affordable Care Act resulting in ‘rationing of care’ and listed several examples of federal healthcare guidelines that suggested curtailing preventative tests like mammographies, colonoscopies, and PSA screening for adults in their seventies and eighties as a cost-saving measure.”

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by Anonymousreply 14105/25/2020

We're conservatives just not hugged enough as children?

by Anonymousreply 104/29/2020

Just trying to sow dissension. YAWN.

by Anonymousreply 204/29/2020

Unless, of course, we were talking about 30-year-old gay men back in the 80s and 90s.

Because gay. AIDs.

So not the same.

by Anonymousreply 304/29/2020

[quote]At the same time, to pretend that it is of the same, it is the same calculation, the age of the person, no public policy acts like that, not a single public policy in America acts like that.”

[quote]“Nobody just wants to say the obvious truth, which is we’re all making actuarial deductions about what are the costs in terms of how many human lives, how many years of life, because that is an actual issue in actuarial tables.

He's absolutely correct. The issue is that no policy maker, public health official and/or politician will ever admit it in public so he sounds more extreme than he is. That's the core of Public Health: making group decisions that allow for the best outcome for the broadest population, while balancing & preserving minority & individual rights. Any serious economic/policy analysis will include these points.

by Anonymousreply 404/29/2020

How is this controversial? He's absolutely correct. How can anyone argue with this statement? "If somebody who is 81, dies of Covid-19 that is not the same thing as somebody who is 30 dying of Covid-19. … If grandma dies in a nursing home at age 81, and that’s tragic and that’s terrible, also the life expectancy in the United States is 80."

by Anonymousreply 504/29/2020

Ben Shapiro doesn't matter and his attempts to use COVID to step back into the political conversation's fucking weak. Dismiss this boy.

by Anonymousreply 604/29/2020

[quote]How can anyone argue with this statement? "If somebody who is 81, dies of Covid-19 that is not the same thing as somebody who is 30 dying of Covid-19.

It's not about arguing against his statement. It's about why he made the statement in the first place. Also, anyone can make arbitrary statements like that. For instance, a 13 year old dying of COVID is different from a 24 year old dying of COVID. A 2 year old dying of COVID is different from Trump dying of COVID. R5 dying of COVID is different from Mike Pence dying of COVID.

Am I doing it right, Ben Shapiro?! Am I making my conservative daddy PROUD?!?!?

by Anonymousreply 704/29/2020

R5, try fucking reading, fat ass. He went on a rampage for years about Obamacare and death panels and how it was going to end up killing 70 and 80 year olds. Now he doesn’t give a shit about them.

by Anonymousreply 804/29/2020

Of course that dumb faggot Dave Rubin has him on.

by Anonymousreply 904/29/2020

He's right

by Anonymousreply 1004/29/2020

[quote]He's absolutely correct. How can anyone argue with this statement? "If somebody who is 81, dies of Covid-19 that is not the same thing as somebody who is 30 dying of Covid-19.

If the 81 yo is my grandmother and you were the 30 year old, her death would be more tragic. You dying, I couldn't give less of a shit about . Ben Shapiro and his entire family dying, i would actually celebrate.

Age alone is meaningless when the 30 yo is a shithead who has contributed nothing while the 81 yo actually did something with their life.

by Anonymousreply 1104/29/2020

Shapiro sounds like a DLer.

by Anonymousreply 1204/29/2020

My 83-year-old mother actually agrees with this as well.

She mentioned to me just recently that so many people were dying in old-age homes (her term, not mine), and when I said, "Yeah, they weren't properly shielded", she answered "You know what? It's a blessing. If I ever need to be in a home, the last thing I want is to be on a ventilator with life support. I've had a good life, and I want to have a good death". It actually surprised me a bit, since she's very humane and generally pro-life, but I agree 100% that destroying young people's lives to give really old people a few extra months is something that needs to be discussed and addressed very seriously.

by Anonymousreply 1304/29/2020

R8 is correct. It's not about the wisdom of the statement, it's about the political motivation and how it flies in the face of what he used to say.

Are the most vulnerable expendable people? When you become vulnerable, are you willing to accept being taken out?

I'm white, but it seems funny that, since all the stories about the disproportionately large black deaths, there appears to be more with apathy about the threat of COVID?

by Anonymousreply 1404/29/2020

Because people can't work, they can't afford to feed their families.

by Anonymousreply 1504/29/2020

His odious opinions combined with that nasal, whiny voice = instant tune-out

by Anonymousreply 1604/29/2020

[quote]He's right

That people's deaths affect humanity differently? Oh what a goddamn political genius. Do you feel brave typing, "He's right," as if you're some fucking iconoclast? Sticking it to the man? You're mentally weak.

by Anonymousreply 1704/29/2020

Were conservatives just not hugged enough as children?

Of course they weren't. Their father were doctors/lawyers/business executives that were too busy fucking mistresses to tuck their sons in at night. Or on the other end of the spectrum their fathers were dumber, more bigoted than dirt. That's the star spangled crotch these humans fell from.

by Anonymousreply 1804/29/2020

There are about 50 Republican billionaires who want you to believe that this is a choice between old people and destroying society for young people. Those billionaires pay Ben Shapiro and Dave Rubin’s salaries. For all of their talk about the free market, they are essentially overpaid to go out and say these things on the radio every day. There are about 50 Republican billionaires who want you to believe that this is a choice between old people and destroying society for young people. One billionaire floats Ben Shapiro and Dave Rubin‘s salaries.

Because we lost about eight weeks of preparation due to our president and Jared Kushner not wanting to spook the markets, our current medical facilities can not handle a full outbreak. We do not have enough gloves, masks, or ventilators. We do not have enough nurses or doctors. We do not have enough janitors and support staff. We do not have enough disinfectant. We do not have enough testing capabilities.

This is a disgustingly perfect example of how the right operates. And what kind of idiots are drawn into the intellectual masturbation of an argument such as this. It has no bearing on our current reality which is that we can simply not handle the amount of sick and dying people that would occur if everybody in the country continued to interact, travel, and shop like it was eight weeks ago. But shame on them for spending this time on the intellectual masturbation of arguing which lives are more valuable as opposed to what good government conservatives used to do, which is come up with actual plans and ideas for tackling the problem. Fuck them and fuck any of you who got drawn into their bullshit. There are nurses and doctors dying from this disease. There are bodies piled up in Uhauls outside funeral homes in New York. The governor of Florida is trying to reopen his state at the same time he is trying to keep the amount of nursing home death secret.

This is the United States and what it’s become because people get drawn into Fox News worthy irrelevant bullshit like this—a debate set up to lead you to a logical conclusion that results in Billionaires getting their employees back to work.

by Anonymousreply 1904/30/2020

The same Ben Shapiro who in 2014 pushed the death panels (rationed care) nonsense and argued against his current argument. But as he said Americans are stupid so we’re not supposed to notice nor understand his hypocrisy.

[quote] With Obamacare open enrollment about to begin anew, rumors of trouble in Healthcare Paradise run rampant. Enrollment has dropped to 30% below Congressional Budget Office estimates; fully 1 million of the 8.1 million people who originally signed up for Obamacare dropped out.

[quote] But Obamacare’s shoddy implementation doesn’t even begin to scratch the surface of its great evil. Obamacare architect Jonathan Gruber quite correctly attributed the passage of Obamcare to “lack of transparency” and the “stupidity of the American voter” – because it turns out that Obamacare will ration care, and that the most well-respected bodies in terms of health rationing have already recommended cutting off services.

[quote] The US Preventive Services Task Force is an independent body authorized by Congress to make “evidence-based recommendations about clinical preventive services such as screenings, counseling services, or preventive medications.” And since the onset of Obamacare discussions, the Task Force recommendations for treatment and screening have become less and less generous. In November 2009, the Task Force recommended that mammography for women every other year between the ages of 50 and 74. They admit that they have insufficient information to suggest that it would be fruitless to screen after 74, and they say that case-by-case screenings should take place before 50 . . .

by Anonymousreply 2004/30/2020

Aren't his parents liberals/ left leaning or something? When's he gonna come out?

by Anonymousreply 2104/30/2020

I'm sure Ben is otherwise "Pro-life". It's interesting how these wingnuts who had their heyday 15-20 years ago seem to re-emerge. You wonder what scams they had been running in the interim.

by Anonymousreply 2204/30/2020

SPANK HIM! Someone just overpower him (he's 5 fee tall, it won't be hard) and just SPANK his bare ass on a live stream, like the temper tantrum throwing, screaming 10 year old he truly is and deserves. And the trolls in this thread agreeing with him can all die in a fire.

by Anonymousreply 2304/30/2020

He is correct. And no reasonable person can disagree with that.

But he's also a hypocrite.

by Anonymousreply 2404/30/2020

Here's a conservative who screams about liberals being triggered...being triggered. He's such a cunt dwarf:

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by Anonymousreply 2504/30/2020

He’s not wrong though.

by Anonymousreply 2604/30/2020

Except when he said the opposite when Obama was president, but then, these assholes never miss an opportunity to show their glaring hypocrisy. Just attach an "R" to whatever they formally opposed and watch them do a 180.

by Anonymousreply 2704/30/2020

So if Shapiro dies of COVID, that’s much better than a 12 year old’s dying of the virus.

by Anonymousreply 2804/30/2020

Him dying period would be fine by any measure.

by Anonymousreply 2904/30/2020

The party of "ALL LIFE IS PRECIOUS!!" is quickly changing its mind when it comes to old people.

It's really the party of money. If there were a disease killing children, they would choose money first too.

by Anonymousreply 3004/30/2020

[quote]The party of "ALL LIFE IS PRECIOUS!!"

The conservative right wing whites of the world cared only for the lives that looked like their own. Twas ever thus. Truth is, human life is the last thing these people value.

by Anonymousreply 3104/30/2020

[quote] He’s not wrong though.

So you're done trolling the Biden threads and now you're here to give your support to Shapiro. Like you Shapiro is a troll.

by Anonymousreply 3204/30/2020

Once again, the sanctity of life crowd shows its true colors.

by Anonymousreply 3304/30/2020

The sanctity of life crowd only has one color.

by Anonymousreply 3404/30/2020

He is right. All wars currently being fought need to be re-staffed by drafted Americans over the age of 50. Buckle up, gramps. Lock and load, grannies.

by Anonymousreply 3504/30/2020

So Mr. Shapiro is basically agreeing with the Nazis: if you're too old, too young, or too sick or too mentally disabled and can't be of use to the ruling class, then you should die.

Guess all those Holocaust memorials are pretty useless too.

by Anonymousreply 3604/30/2020

I nominate Mr. Shapiro to be first in the draft!

by Anonymousreply 3704/30/2020

Was glad that this article received the same amount of outrage.

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by Anonymousreply 3804/30/2020

Shapiro is right on one thing. At some point, we will have to assess the risk level and that it'll never be 0% no matter what guidelines are imposed.

by Anonymousreply 3904/30/2020

[quote]So Mr. Shapiro is basically agreeing with the Nazis

[italic]Has been[/italic]. Has been agreeing.

by Anonymousreply 4004/30/2020

The guys is a douchbag!

by Anonymousreply 4104/30/2020

[quote]At some point, we will have to assess the risk level

And we should do so by sending the protesters out first. Let them congregate, en masse, and we can see just how effective COVID is.

I liked that stupid cunty major of Las Vegas who was all, "It ain't that bad! We'll be the control group! Economy! Casinos!" And when asked if she'd be on the casino floor with the employees she got offended then said, "I have a family!"

So right wing whites unite in stupid despite all the deaths. Their sanctity of life clause is conditional.

by Anonymousreply 4204/30/2020

unite in stupidity*

by Anonymousreply 4304/30/2020

I thought he was a devout Jew. Doesn’t that mean he’s supposed to see value in all human life? He’s a got a Darwinistic viewpoint.

by Anonymousreply 4404/30/2020

[quote] Shapiro is right on one thing. At some point, we will have to assess the risk level and that it'll never be 0% no matter what guidelines are imposed.

He values being a troll and an attention whore and whatever living he makes from it. He’s a joke.

by Anonymousreply 4504/30/2020

[quote]I thought he was a devout Jew.

Only when convenient to deflect Nazist accusations. Dude's an Uncle Tom or whatever the Jewish equivalent to Germans that would be.

by Anonymousreply 4604/30/2020

Fuck Shapiro. There are 30 year old junkies killing themselves and there are people like the ones in this article.

I plan to keep on producing and learning until I'm dead. I'm old, but I'm a taxpayer, a good human being (mostly), and not willing to concede that I'm done yet.

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by Anonymousreply 4704/30/2020

Gee, four trolls who agree with him are posting ONLY on this thread. Quelle surprise! I'm glad someone's found gainful employment during this pandemic. Or, maybe they're just Shapiro's "interns"?

by Anonymousreply 4804/30/2020

There are two distinct arguments/criticisms being laid out at Shapiro, with the first being a question of individual morality vs. greater good and the second being a false equivalent:

Issue #1: "He said an 81 year old's life isn't as valuable as a 30 year old! He's horrible! My mother/grandma's life is valuable!" POV: He's not saying an 81 year old deserves to die/life doesn't have value. In the context of the pandemic, social distancing means economic shutdown. The mortality rate for people over 70+ is concerning. The mortality rate of those under 70 is not. As a society, we need to ask ourselves: Is shutting down our economy and harming EVERYONE worth it, or do we reopen with an understanding that we are risking the elderly. From a public policy perspective -which is about functioning for the greatest good - Shapiro's perspective is the latter. The problem is, he delivers this with the EQ of a three year old and presents thing as binary (we can reopen and take great care to protect the elderly, etc).

Issue #2: "He's a hypocrite because he criticized Obama's death panels and its impact on the elderly and now he's saying we shouldn't protect them!" POV: This is a fair argument on the surface, but the key difference here is the pandemic and its economic impact. The Obama death panel - from Shapiro's POV - was harmful and unfair policy towards the elderly but didn't negatively impact other large swaths of population (i.e. it was limited towards the elderly). His argument with COVID is that social distancing is causing economic devastation for the majority of the country but only has physical ramifications (statistically speaking) for the 70+ crowd. Shapiro's language (especially in 2014) is once again hyperbolic and assholey so, IMO, its difficult to get that.

Moral of the story, Ben Shapiro is a complete asshole whose condescension and lack of empathy makes you want to punch him in the face, but he's not wrong on the above

by Anonymousreply 4904/30/2020

It blew my mind when I found out he's Mara Wilson's cousin.

by Anonymousreply 5004/30/2020

[quote] we can reopen and take great care to protect the elderly, etc

I agree that we can do both but we're currently lacking the testing infrastructure to implement this properly. However, any type of risk assessment has to balance with what is for the greater good. This doesn't necessarily mean more deaths but it could mean asking those who are more vulnerable to make sacrifices such as sheltering in place for longer so that healthy people can get back to work.

by Anonymousreply 5104/30/2020

[quote] Issue #2: "He's a hypocrite because he criticized Obama's death panels and its impact on the elderly and now he's saying we shouldn't protect them!" POV: This is a fair argument on the surface, but the key difference here is the pandemic and its economic impact. The Obama death panel - from Shapiro's POV - was harmful and unfair policy towards the elderly but didn't negatively impact other large swaths of population (i.e. it was limited towards the elderly). His argument with COVID is that social distancing is causing economic devastation for the majority of the country but only has physical ramifications (statistically speaking) for the 70+ crowd. Shapiro's language (especially in 2014) is once again hyperbolic and assholey so, IMO, its difficult to get that. Moral of the story, Ben Shapiro is a complete asshole whose condescension and lack of empathy makes you want to punch him in the face, but he's not wrong on the above

There was no such thing as an"Obama Death Panel."

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by Anonymousreply 5204/30/2020

[quote] I agree that we can do both but we're currently lacking the testing infrastructure to implement this properly. However, any type of risk assessment has to balance with what is for the greater good. This doesn't necessarily mean more deaths but it could mean asking those who are more vulnerable to make sacrifices such as sheltering in place for longer so that healthy people can get back to work.

Do you know how many Americans have heart disease or Diabetes or both or compromised immune systems? There are 50 million senior citizens in this country. You are a troll (like Shapiro) doing what trolls do, posting nonsense for attention. Thanks to Trump and his incompetence we aren't even close to having widespread testing. We can't even test people properly much less, provide temporary housing for everyone who is high risk. And many people have heat disease and/or diabetes and don't even know it.

by Anonymousreply 5304/30/2020

You need to turn the sound down & watch. He looks like a tweeker coming down off a 6 day high. He’s jerking around, twitching, making hand chops, banging his fingers around.

He’s crazy.

by Anonymousreply 5404/30/2020

Kidney transplant a are not given on a first come, first served basis, nor because grandfather was a nice old guy before he hit his 80s, before his second bypass surgery 15 years ago, and before his two hip replacements in less than three years.

When the option to serve everyone isn't available, decisions are made, and have been for ages.

He's a vile asshole, but the message on the one point isn't altogether wrong.

by Anonymousreply 5504/30/2020

[quote] He's a vile asshole, but the message on the one point isn't altogether wrong.

You should perhaps share that with Shapiro; being that he is very very concerned about "death panels."

I'm not sure why anyone feels the need to come in and attempt to legitimize Shapiro. No one here is arguing against what is already kind of common sense standard procedure. Unlike Shapiro who did argue against common sense standard procedure, in an effort to rob millions of Americans of health insurance coverage. Shapiro has argued both sides but his motivation is not the "greater good." Wealth is his motivation. Republicans care only about the wealthy. The majority of the population is expendable. He advocates for seniors to prevent expansion of healthcare and a tax increase for corporations and the wealthy. But if the economy is in jeopardy, grandma and grandpa are expendable. Shapiro is consistently interested in the greater good of only the wealthy, typical Republican bullshit.

by Anonymousreply 5604/30/2020

R49 JFC, a well-reasoned, clearly explained opinion presenting a dissenting viewpoint without partisan hyperbole or juvenile name calling? This is the new DL! What's wrong with you?

by Anonymousreply 5704/30/2020

My parents are over 80, and neither has any deep need to die soon. They are enjoying their life, even though their bodies are not in that good shape anymore. I'm sure we have tons of middle-aged guys with depression posting here who wish they themselves would die soon but projecting that on total strangers is idiotic.

And then we obviously have right-wingers posting here who may or may not be paid by the Kremlin or the Bannon crowd to talk crap.

by Anonymousreply 5804/30/2020

In some ways I agree because my grandmother died at 76 and my father at 70. Though I don't want them to die.

My dad said it's easy to think old people should just roll over and accept dying but when you're in those shoes you want to live like everyone else.

I find it scary that doctors complain about all the expensive surgeries families do on the 80+.

by Anonymousreply 5904/30/2020

[quote]It blew my mind when I found out he's Mara Wilson's cousin.

YOU SERIOUS?!?!?

That's so funny because Mara's a HARDCORE liberal, and also bi, and super educated. She must disown him hard.

by Anonymousreply 6004/30/2020

[quote] Do you know how many Americans have heart disease or Diabetes or both or compromised immune systems?

I do because I'm one of them. Still, what's best for me is not necessarily what's best for the entire country.

[quote] Thanks to Trump and his incompetence we aren't even close to having widespread testing.

Not everywhere but some places are doing a lot better than others. California for example.

by Anonymousreply 6104/30/2020

Of course he's correct. I find it so offensive to compare the COVID-19 deaths to Vietnam War deaths. As if it's no moment to the future of a country whether the deaths are of 18-22 year olds - individuals who have yet to have an opportunity to live their lives, start families, and start careers to much older individuals who have enjoyed such opportunities. You don't have to be a Trump bootlicker to recognize that.

by Anonymousreply 6204/30/2020

Then you shoud be a peacenik, R62, and advocate for the old men who vote for such wars to fight them as well.

by Anonymousreply 6304/30/2020

Use that broad brush and wipe out a whole generation of 'olds' and be done with it if you all feel this way, trolls. Begin the process at home.

by Anonymousreply 6404/30/2020

I'm going to lose it if I keep hearing this stupid ass argument about "old vs young", while idiot trolls here agree. HE IS WRONG, HE IS VERY WRONG. It was never about not killing old people, or preventing the damn virus you trolling assholes!

The people here saying "it's gonna happen anyway" and that "economic depression will be worse" are ignoring that lockdown is not about avoiding the virus. No shit we'll all get it and it's going to turn out bad anyway, but that's not the point.

Say we open up and let the chips land where they land -- thanks a lot for overloading hospitals, killing irreplaceable medical staff, and burdening survivors with 50k in hospital bills! Do the republicunts screaming "socialism!" not get how devastating that will be? Hmm 🤔 stay home a few months, needing to catch up on just 3 mths of bills OR end up with 50k in debt, ruining your life and credit anyway.

It's also not just about death rates, like the morons keep going on about. The long term consequences have not been discovered with the infected yet, like lifelong disabilities. But the idiots want to kill off large portions of medical staff, that we'll most definitely need if there's side effects to the virus. The idiots don't think of how devastating a large suddenly disabled population would be. What about that economic sting geniuses?

That's all without including how it'll work out to just open with employees are going to need to be out once it spreads throug a work place. Like medical staff -- good luck running schools if 25% of teachers go out sick, in schools already overloaded by 30 kids per class.

I swear, some people truly are fucking brain dead and useless for looking beyond their nose.

by Anonymousreply 6504/30/2020

To an extent this is a debate you have to have if you want an 'NHS' (socialized healthcare).

With the resources available do you save the30 year old or the 80 year old?

In normal times it's probably a decision that doesn't need to be made that often, but situations arise.

You also really need to consider Quality of Life rather than existence (on a Ventilator).

Most people that live in places that have Universal Healthcare are quite pragmatic about it (hence the lack of protest/rioting about Lockdown in the rest of The World).

It's a tricky issue....

by Anonymousreply 6604/30/2020

R65, mouthpieces like Shapiro are never going to get it. These fools have no idea what the words 'virulent' mean or that this illness is constantly changing and will eventually affect a lot more people than just the elderly. It already has, but they just ignore those facts and run with their bs excuses and claiming they have the sacred right to do as they please as guaranteed by the US Constitution.

IF you allow this virus to incubate within any population you will get the same results. We need to protect everyone.

by Anonymousreply 6704/30/2020

R66 it really isn't tricky because it's not about that! It has to do with not knowing the fucking consequences, how the virus works, and not overloading healthcare completely. I don't get why people keep pretending it's all about saving the elderly. If hospital staff is ill, if work places are ill, and so on, we will be just as fucked anyway, if not more so. If there's lifelong health complications, we will be just as fucked, if not more so anyway (especially when we kill our irreplaceable medical staff to deal with it.) This was all to buy time to get information and the morons are going to reverse it all.

How about them suggesting we all do something basic first, like getting tested? I know that's too complicated to to do though, so let's just say fuck it all! (Sarcasm)

Does anyone understand this yet?

by Anonymousreply 6804/30/2020

R67 THANK YOU. I swear i'm losing it with the insane logic coming from the right.

by Anonymousreply 6904/30/2020

[quote]If grandma dies in a nursing home at age 81, and that’s tragic and that’s terrible, also the life expectancy in the United States is 80.

That woman got more life than she paid for. No free rides!

by Anonymousreply 7004/30/2020

All the words in all the posts come down to one basic truth: you want to get out of lockdown? TEST

by Anonymousreply 7104/30/2020

Awful dead eyed little cunt.

by Anonymousreply 7204/30/2020

[quote]R26 He’s not wrong though.

Constitutionally he is, though. We’re all supposed to have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. There’s not an age cut off for that.

Plus, seniors have paid taxes, propped up the economy, helped with war efforts, and contributed to Social Security for decade upon decade. They deserve to be protected by the system and the country they sustained... not simply crossed off.

by Anonymousreply 7304/30/2020

The decision should be made on medical criteria only.

Limited resources, who is most likely to survive with a decent Quality of Life.

by Anonymousreply 7404/30/2020

New data suggests this virus can last as long as 45 days in someone who is asymptomatic (typically young and seemingly healthy). With that information in consideration, shouldn't it be they that remain in lockdown until we can test?

I have a son in his 30's with a serious immune disorder. I fear for him a lot more than I do myself. I understand why he wants to go back to work, but a paycheck won't matter if he dies.

by Anonymousreply 7504/30/2020

R65 People are working every day despite this virus.

How is it you're able to eat every day? Turn on the lights? Make a phone call? Have your garbage picked up? Get your deliveries? Your supermarket is open. Your Walmart is open. The pharmacy is open.

People are out there working. If they can, others can too.

The emphasis should be on the safety of health care workers. And also the situation in nursing homes. It is the aged that should be in quarantine.

Old people over the age of 80 die every year from the flu. And you've never given a shit about it.

by Anonymousreply 7604/30/2020

I would love to see Ben Shapiro's feet.

by Anonymousreply 7704/30/2020

I wonder how many of these people talking openly about wanting pretty much the old people to die are doing it because they hate their own parents or grandparents, and want to see THEM dead? Knowing what an annoying asswipe this narcissistic and whiney little cunt is I'd imagine he's been told off by his family since he was a kid. It's now his turn to play God.

by Anonymousreply 7804/30/2020

R78, I don't think so. I think these people are so fucking arrogant and selfish that they expect our loved ones to be the ones who drop dead.

by Anonymousreply 7904/30/2020

None of you have ever given two fucks about old people dying of the flu.

It's hilarious to hear you all so suddenly concerned.

From AARP Oct. 2018

"An AARP Bulletin analysis of government data reveals that deaths attributed to the flu among those 65 and older have spiked in recent years. More than 12,000 people ages 65 and older died from the disease during the last flu season (starting Oct. 1, 2017). That is more than double the death toll of the 2016-17 flu season and six times the number from 2015-16,"

"In addition to a large death toll in 2017-18, the number of flu-related hospitalizations of those 65 and older “was higher than we’ve seen in any other previous year,”"

by Anonymousreply 8004/30/2020

No one is saying old people should die. They should continue to quarantine while those who have no underlying health conditions begin to work. Fake strawman argument.

by Anonymousreply 8104/30/2020

It's not a strawman. Ben and Republicans are trying to condition the country into not giving a shit that old people are dying because that would be best for Trump. The only thing trump had to run on was a good economy. He doesn't have that anymore. That is why suddenly the ALL LIVES MATTER!!!1111!! crowd don't care your granny is dying of COVID or that she might be put into danger if the country is re-opened too fast.

And if it were babies doing most of the dying from COVID, Ben would be all over the place telling us how a baby dying isn't as bad as a teenager dying. And if it were teenagers doing most of the dying he would be on TV telling us that isn't as bad as an adult dying.

Republicans are hideous people who will do anything to keep their fat orange king in office.

by Anonymousreply 8204/30/2020

He’s right. He also adds this “At the same time, to pretend that it is of the same, it is the same calculation, the age of the person, no public policy acts like that, not a single public policy in America acts like that.”

I believe he could be referring to the case death calculation that is currently being used to keep states in lockdown. For example - 70 percent of the deaths in Pa occurred in nursing homes. Yesterday my county had 100 new cases. Only 3 were from community spread. The remaining 97 were in nursing home. These are population that’s already mostly isolated from the public. Yet they are using the number 100 cases to maintain lockdown.

And furthermore - this applies to NYS and Pa (I’m sure other stars are doing this). Patients that have COViD are being admitted TO nursing homes and long term care facilities. That’s why they are now. A hotbed for the virus. The admit patients with covid, and then it spreads to other patients and staff. It’s outrageous.

So they are purposefully sending covids to these facilities, which then infect other patients and staff, killing some, and then use those “numbers” to justify further shutdown,

by Anonymousreply 8304/30/2020

[quote]So they are purposefully sending covids to these facilities, which then infect other patients and staff, killing some, and then use those “numbers” to justify further shutdown,

That's bastard Andrew Cuomo's tactic...of course no one here gives a shit about it:

"On March 25, when the hospital surge of COVID-19 patients was moving toward its peak, Gov. Cuomo issued a mandate requiring all New York nursing homes to accept patients appropriate for admission, regardless of whether they’d been diagnosed with the coronavirus."

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by Anonymousreply 8404/30/2020

R38, except that article says NOTHING about other people. He’s talking about when HE himself wants to die.

False equivalence

by Anonymousreply 8504/30/2020

This is how much Andrew Cuomo cares about old people dying of the virus.

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by Anonymousreply 8604/30/2020

R84 they are doing it in PA too but the media isn’t covering it.... yet,

These are the Pa department of health guidelines. Nursing homes and long term care facilities are required to admit covid patients.

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by Anonymousreply 8704/30/2020

R84.... I did actually get the attention of someone this morning in the press about PA doing it. I hope it gets more attention in the PA media ASAP..

by Anonymousreply 8804/30/2020

[quote] I do because I'm one of them. Still, what's best for me is not necessarily what's best for the entire country.

Then you also know that what you’re saying is ridiculous.

Shapiro is wrong not because of what is logical or reasonable and already standard practice for the healthcare system. He is wrong because he is using that to build a case for doing whatever works in the best interests of Trump/Republicans. Which = a shortsighted plan to save the economy and save Trump.

He used seniors and spread bullshit about “death panels” in an attempt to destroy Obamacare. Now he’s using seniors again. This time he is the “death panel” and seniors are disposable. He goal is always the same. The goal of Republicans is always the same. Protect the wealthy and make them wealthier, by any means necessary.

by Anonymousreply 8904/30/2020

R19

Billionaires don't care. This crisis is going to make them richer, and no one, not Trump and not Biden, is going to claw the cost of this crisis out of billionaires' wealth once this is all over.

by Anonymousreply 9004/30/2020

[quote]Protect the wealthy and make them wealthier, by any means necessary.

Well, one thing for sure, this lockdown is going to make the rest of us a lot poorer.

by Anonymousreply 9104/30/2020

[quote]r75 New data suggests this virus can last as long as 45 days in someone who is asymptomatic (typically young and seemingly healthy). With that information in consideration, shouldn't it be they that remain in lockdown until we can test?

LOCK ‘EM UP!

by Anonymousreply 9204/30/2020

When my 85-year old mother lost her 63-year old daughter to cancer, she took to comparing herself to her sister-in-law who, so many years earlier, lost her son when he was just 22. Not trying to minimize her loss in any way, I just shook my head in disbelief as to the false equivalency.

by Anonymousreply 9305/01/2020

R93, you are most definitely trying to minimize her loss. Who are you to decide how someone else should feel about losing their own child? And since you're talking about your own family you actually sound like a cunt. The only way to understand your point of view would be if your mother was a terrible human being and you're trying to get even. If not I can only feel sorry for you.

by Anonymousreply 9405/01/2020

r84, etc. I don't think people recognize how close the NYC health care system came to collapsing in the last month, and it's still teetering. I'm serious. It's way worse than the media will report. The First Responder public dispatch channels were the worst I've ever heard, including 9/11. EMS were being told to actively discourage people from asking for transport. In some cases, they were only responding to acute distress calls (VSA, difficulty breathing, stroke, etc.) and even then some calls went unanswered for several minutes. At one point they even took the channel off air--no doubt they realized they didn't want it public during the worst phase.

Cuomo had to move people out of hospitals he had no choice. It was too dangerous to move them to other wards, and in some cases they just didn't have the capacity. Any kind of bottleneck in the system could've had exponentially catastrophic consequences. LTC homes could take measures to isolate positive patients. It's obviously not ideal, but what he was/is facing made it a viable choice.

I have a feeling that when this is all over, a medical insider is going to write a book about it that will make Five Days at Memorial (Katrina) look like Tuesdays With Morrie.

by Anonymousreply 9505/01/2020

Measuring the value or importance of someone's life by their age is barbaric. It's ageist and no different than using color, race, gender, or sexual orientation as the measuring stick.

by Anonymousreply 9605/01/2020

But when Gov Cuomo says homeless people are nothing compared to first responders he is applauded by you all.

You all are sick fucks.

by Anonymousreply 9705/01/2020

Any of you guys drive a Tesla? Do you use AutoPikot? Did you know that the AI in your car is programmed to make split second decisions that take these exact factors into play? Or soon will, anyway.

A human life has a value and it’s not a pleasant or pretty thing but the concept is already embedded throughout your daily life so get over it!

by Anonymousreply 9805/01/2020

R95 - how do you know this?

by Anonymousreply 9905/01/2020

[quote] But when Gov Cuomo says homeless people are nothing compared to first responders he is applauded by you all.

Huh?

by Anonymousreply 10005/01/2020

Maybe the 81 year old is ready to die but sadly doesn't have a DNR.

by Anonymousreply 10105/01/2020

Ben has a Jewface with beady rat's eyes.

by Anonymousreply 10205/01/2020

People like him would've happily joined the Nazis if Jews were accepted. He's a Jewish supremacist. A lot of them have a Nazi mentality, they just hate that Hitler targeted them, too, rather than those "other" undesirables.

Jewish supremacists like him, Pamela Geller, Bret Stephens, Laura Loomis, Roseanne, Andrew Breitbart, Stephen Miller, Jared Kushner have no problem with targeting people for death based on what they are.

Here he is with white supremacist Steve King:

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by Anonymousreply 10305/03/2020

If you’ve made it to 80, you’ve had a good run. You are just a burden on society at that age. That goes for all these geriatric people running the show at the moment.

by Anonymousreply 10405/03/2020

Oh, no. DL favorite Gavin Newsom’s taking heat for advising hospitals to prioritize younger people with greater life expectancy for care during the Coronavirus outbreak. Doesn’t he know that all lives, no matter how old or how young, have equal value?!

by Anonymousreply 10505/03/2020

Gavin Newsom, Andrew Cuomo, Phil Murphy all agree with Ben Shapiro on this subject.

by Anonymousreply 10605/03/2020

For all those here who would make cheap, ad hominen personal attacks, please take notice.

by Anonymousreply 10705/03/2020

[quote] He is correct. And no reasonable person can disagree with that. But he's also a hypocrite.

[quote] People are working every day despite this virus. How is it you're able to eat every day? Turn on the lights? Make a phone call? Have your garbage picked up? Get your deliveries? Your supermarket is open. Your Walmart is open. The pharmacy is open. People are out there working. If they can, others can too. The emphasis should be on the safety of health care workers. And also the situation in nursing homes. It is the aged that should be in quarantine. Old people over the age of 80 die every year from the flu. And you've never given a shit about it.

[quote] None of you have ever given two fucks about old people dying of the flu. It's hilarious to hear you all so suddenly concerned. From AARP Oct. 2018 "An AARP Bulletin analysis of government data reveals that deaths attributed to the flu among those 65 and older have spiked in recent years. More than 12,000 people ages 65 and older died from the disease during the last flu season (starting Oct. 1, 2017).

[quote] That's bastard Andrew Cuomo's tactic...of course no one here gives a shit about it: "On March 25, when the hospital surge of COVID-19 patients was moving toward its peak, Gov. Cuomo issued a mandate requiring all New York nursing homes to accept patients appropriate for admission, regardless of whether they’d been diagnosed with the coronavirus."

[quote] This is how much Andrew Cuomo cares about old people dying of the virus.

[quote] Well, one thing for sure, this lockdown is going to make the rest of us a lot poorer.

[quote] Gavin Newsom, Andrew Cuomo, Phil Murphy all agree with Ben Shapiro on this subject.

[quote] Let's face it: if it's Trump vs. Warren, of course Trump will win.

[quote] Moody's forecast: Trump will win election in landslide If the headlines continue to say the economy is robust and unemployment is low and boys aren't being shipped off to war, a lot of people will see that as quite an achievement. People will consider the rest just background noise. I'm just trying to be a realist here.

[quote] Moody's forecast: Trump will win election in landslide R53 "YouGov" the polling organization that Nate Silver rates among the highest, shows Trump's approval rating at 87% among Republicans in their latest poll (October 31 - November 1)

[quote] Moody's forecast: Trump will win election in landslide R67 If anyone is obsessing over Trump, it's CNN and MSNBC, every minute of their day. But most people aren't watching CNN and MSNBC.

[quote]Trump is Done. Turn Oven to Off. The headlines, whether it's Fox or the NYTimes say that the economy is doing very well, that unemployment is the lowest in 50 years, that wages are rising, that unemployment among Blacks and Latinos is the lowest in years. How powerful will that be at election time?

[quote] Trump is Done. Turn Oven to Off. Of course. Whether we like it or not, that's the way it works in the eyes of most people. Right or wrong, the Pres. presiding over the economy gets the credit....especially 3 years into a term. And according to polling (CNN Dec. 2019) consumer confidence is at a 20 year high.

[quote] Politico: Majority now approves of Trump’s handling of this crisis Remember: neither Biden nor Trump are going to be able to hold campaign rallies. But Trump has a daily soap box in front of the public. Daily. Flanked by experts. It's a situation that's going to give Biden a huge disadvantage.

[quote] Politico: Majority now approves of Trump’s handling of this crisis If Trump begins sending checks to people, he wins.

[quote] Sweden is WINNING Then why don't you mention Macron's France? Sanchez' Spain? Conte's Italy? Between them there have been so far around 75,000 deaths. 75,000! Fascism? Being under martial law is Fascism.

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by Anonymousreply 10805/04/2020

Shapiro is an idiot. People in their seventies don't get the odious tests such as colonoscopies, mammograms etc. because they are well informed that it isn't necessary. In addition, most are aware of their impending death from one thing or another. He is ignorant of geriatric medicine today. We seniors just want to make a painless exit when the time comes.

by Anonymousreply 10905/04/2020

Jennifer America's Sweetheart Aniston dying of COVID-19 is not the same as Meg America's Sweetheart Ryan dying of COVID-19. I'm telling you now so I don't have to tell you later.

by Anonymousreply 11005/04/2020

[quote]I'm not sure why anyone feels the need to come in and attempt to legitimize Shapiro.

Except possibly Shapiro. There's several replies on this thread that come across as though they were by Shapiro himself.

by Anonymousreply 11105/04/2020

Just because he's a fucking asshole, it doesn't mean he's not totally 100% correct. That's the true tragedy.

by Anonymousreply 11205/04/2020

[quote] Just because he's a fucking asshole, it doesn't mean he's not totally 100% correct. That's the true tragedy.

You have no post history. How interesting.

by Anonymousreply 11305/04/2020

....

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by Anonymousreply 11405/04/2020

[quote]It's really the party of money. If there were a disease killing children, they would choose money first too.

Considering the number of gun-related shootings in our schools and the Republicans siding with the NRA by fighting gun ownership restrictions, I would say they already have done so.

by Anonymousreply 11505/04/2020

COVID-19 is an awful way to die, no matter the age. Fuck these people.

by Anonymousreply 11605/04/2020

I don't really get the point he is trying to make. First of all, every cliche disaster movie get a scene where "children, sick, and elderly" are saved before young and healthy one. Nobody abandons them either because their old or sick. This has always been the simple basic value you teach everyone conservative or liberal. Also I don't get the false equivalency and hypotheticals. why even compare saving lives of anyone to economic policy decisions that don't kill people outright.

by Anonymousreply 11705/04/2020

It's a false dichotomy. You can save an 81-year-old and a 30-year old if you social distance and close non-essential economy.

What you don't save if you do that is the billionaires' Uncle Scrooge vaults of money.

THAT'S what this is about.

by Anonymousreply 11805/04/2020

I don't get this. Health workers are getting this and dying young - an ER doctor just killed herself at 49. The first "famous" death from covid was that whistleblower, Dr Li. He was 31.

In a recent study Dr John Campbell put on his youtube channel - 25% of the ICU admissions were under the age of 52.

When you flood the hospitals with covid patients, many other people are likely to get poor treatment or die - accident victims, cancer patients, stroke/heart attacks - many under 50. Or should those weaklings be culled as well, along with doctors and nurses? WTF needs them when you're young, strong and invincible?

by Anonymousreply 11905/04/2020

[quote]Ben Shapiro suggested that a 30-year-old life was worth more than an 80-year-old life.

Oh the pearl clutches here.

If it gets down to the nitty gritty and doctors need to make a choice, it's the younger people they'll save over older people.

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by Anonymousreply 12005/04/2020

*clutchers

by Anonymousreply 12105/04/2020

The damage that the virus does, even to the patients who live, also needs to be taken into consideration. You maybe young, but you may end up with the organs of an elderly person.

by Anonymousreply 12205/04/2020

How old are you, R120? Are you planning to volunteer your miserable wretch of a life for the cause?

We sure hope so.

by Anonymousreply 12305/04/2020

Here's the thing, that life expectancy is horrendous in the U.S. The tech exists to push all of us past 100 years. But the medical field is still mired in the dark ages.

by Anonymousreply 12405/04/2020

R124 you go live to over 100. No thanks!

by Anonymousreply 12505/04/2020

[quote]How old are you, [R120]? Are you planning to volunteer your miserable wretch of a life for the cause? We sure hope so.

It's not about your feelings.

The cold hard ugly truth is that, of course, an 81 year old dying of covid-19 is not the same as a 30 year old dying of it.

by Anonymousreply 12605/04/2020

Is it really ageism for a society to place more value to & attention on the marriage of 28-year olds compared to a marriage of 78-year olds?

by Anonymousreply 12705/04/2020

R125: That's because a lot of people thing you'll be decrepit past a hundred years. We don't have to be.

by Anonymousreply 12805/06/2020

[quote]Ben Shapiro: An 81-Year-Old Dying of COVID-19 is Not the Same as a 30-Year-Old Dying of It

Of course it's not - unless it's your own parent who is that 81-year old.

Or unless you're: Chuck Grassley, Orrin Hatch, Richard Shelby, Jim Inhofe, Pat Roberts, Patrick Leahy, Lamar Alexander and you have the ridiculously good healthcare provided by the US government to Senators.

by Anonymousreply 12905/06/2020

I'm Gov Cuomo and if you change 81 year old to homeless, I endorse this statement

by Anonymousreply 13005/06/2020

Seriously, turn the sound down & watch.

He’s a fucking meth head.

by Anonymousreply 13105/06/2020

Parents throughout time have said they’d give up their lives for their children. Has there ever been a child who has said (s)he give up his or her life for a parent?

by Anonymousreply 13205/08/2020

Doesn’t R94 inadvertently champion Shapiro’s argument when (s)he implicitly asserts that, in his or her cutting rejoinder to R93, a parent burying a child is against the natural order of things. At whatever age. And the converse is obviously not the case.

by Anonymousreply 13305/17/2020

This is still my favorite thing.

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by Anonymousreply 13405/24/2020

Amusing to hear conservatives advocating death panels.

by Anonymousreply 13505/24/2020

see, ben shapiro seems like one of those robots. not a good look for the right, just not.

by Anonymousreply 13605/24/2020

Bottom, apparently.

by Anonymousreply 13705/24/2020

“Nobody just wants to say the obvious truth, which is that Ben Shapiro is a sick, nasty Jew bastard, and an anti-Semite"

by Anonymousreply 13805/24/2020

I would love to see his toes

by Anonymousreply 13905/25/2020

He looks like he could play a school shooter on Criminal Minds.

by Anonymousreply 14005/25/2020

I thought the death panels on the left were ridiculous; I think the death panels on the right are ridiculous.

by Anonymousreply 14105/25/2020
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