I don't see how NYC will return to normalcy

All this happening in the heavily gentrified, "nicer" NYC -- imagine a Covid scenario c. 1970.

I’m curious too. EVERYTHING in NYC is premised on being crowded together. I don’t see how theaters, bars and restaurants reopen. Everything that I do in NYC has been eliminated. I don’t have a reason to stay if there is no hope to function again.

The study today that indicates 25% of NYC has antibodies is a ray of light. If true, 25% of people may not spread the disease. Even without evidence that antibodies prevent infection, that will have to be adequate.

There will be a vaccine, and subways will be packed again then.

You need 70% antibodies to have herd immunity. It's a long way off.

NYC will return to functioning faster than you think. But there will be deaths.

I was thinking ahead to New a Year’s Eve the other day. Even if we return to some semblance of normalcy, I can’t imagine one million people crowding into Times Square to watch the ball drop.

Imagine the anxiety and confusion during flu season next winter whe the disease is coming back around.

Testing will be everywhere by then to tell the difference.

Google the 1957 flu pandemic, OP. It killed up to 116,000 people in the US.

New York survived it. It'll survive this too.

Shit it survived Dinkins.

And Lindsay R10

Not with that fuckwit De Blasio "running" things it wont. OP I'd be horrified if you had a face to face close up encounter with one of the "homeless" on the subway - they are a known reservoir of all sorts of diseases, including COVID. A test batch from a homeless shelter in Boston returned over 50% positive for COVID, I'd be getting yourself tested pronto if I were you. Until that problem is dealt with firmly, no NYC isnt returning to normalcy any time soon.

I'd be stating well clear of the subways until that problem is cleaned up properly. Have you considered getting a bicycle? Would be safer than the subway for the forseeable future

I work in NYC and on a conference call with work, questions were raised about how and when we may eventually open the office. They asked us about our concerns. I said I am less concerned with being in the office than I am getting on a crowded bus and subway every day. It's the commute that will get us sick before anything else. Luckily I work for a major media corporation that really does seem to care about its employees. I've been with the company for over a decade and more or less come and go as I please to begin with, so if i told my VERY chill boss that I am going to continue to work from home for the foreseeable future, he would not object. In fact, he'll probably be doing the same.

Same for me R13. I already told my boss that when I return to the office, I will probably stagger my hours.

New Yorkers have always been abnormal.

At least when the weather warms up the homeless will sleep outside more.

The homeless are a problem, some of them here have the Coronavirus but they won’t socially distance themselves and you can’t make them

R15

Yes, and thank GOD!

Elevators seem like a nightmare, now.

Glad I live in a walk up!

An interesting view form the head of St Barnabas in the hard-hit Bronx saying it’s time to reopen. They hit their peak April 7. Ambulance demand is back below prior levels - 1/2 of peak. He believes much of it was the natural ebb and flow of a new virus - mitigated by controls.. Now we have to get normal medical procedures back to speed and people returning to work because the worst in terms of overwhelmed hospitals has happened.

I think this is the week - the tipping point - where the pressure to reopen starts to dominate over safety and fear of uncontrollably rising numbers. Listening to doctors like this sways me towards apaoft opening. Like in grocery stores and delis.

Does anyone understand what role social distancing will play as reopening gradually begins to occur?

I live in Brooklyn and rarely leave home these days. When I do, my impression is that roughly 80% of the people I encounter are following the rules - keeping at least six feet apart, keeping faces covered, etc.

But it’s the 20% who scare me, like the woman who stood directly behind me at the market. When I said politely, “Six feet, please,” she said it was ok because she “didn’t have anything.” (?!?)

Another day at the store, a woman’s three kids were running up and down the aisles unsupervised. It was unnerving.

With streets and stores fairly quiet, I can generally navigate around the stubborn and oblivious types, but how will social distancing be able to be enforced as the number of people in public gradually increases? I’m not sure it’s possible.

On a related note, I fail to see how restaurants will be able to reopen under the new guidelines. Most of the restaurants in my neighborhood are so small that if they move tables six feet apart or remove half the tables, they’ll be serving so few diners that they’ll go broke in a week.

I live in Chicago and take buses and subways to work. They always have a least 20 or more people. This is why you wear your n95 mask.

Or just pay for an Uber and hope your driver is healthy.

That doctor at R21 is a Republican fool. His concept of immunity, as it is, is totally wrong, and his statistics are bullshit. He can go fuck himself.

R4 Don’t talk about shut you’re not qualified to. Herd immunity simply means the virus runs out of hosts.

[quote]There will be a vaccine

How are you so sure? This could be like colds where there are multiple strains and we know there are no vaccines for colds.

R26 well let’s just stay home forever then!

Anecdotal evidence here-- it's becoming clear speaking with others in NYC that some of us were exposed to the virus much earlier than "officially" stated. Some people I know experienced symptoms (mild to severe) back in late January/early February. And I was exposed to a number of those people at that time and exhibited no symptoms. So if there is value in developing antibodies to CV19, I'm cautiously optimistic.

I feel the same way OP. I would leave if I could find a job in a smaller city.

The thought of taking the subway twice a day once we “reopen” makes me extremely anxious. I live too far to walk to work. I’m not a bike rider - I don’t think it’s realistic to bike to/from work.

Maybe the buses are better because less homeless people?

I just don’t see how this will work.

Scary times.

R28

2 friends were very sick, one in February and one this month, but haven’t been tested.

They’re fine now, but the random tests show that it has already infected a quarter of people in NYC.

The vast, vast majority of workers in NYC can't work from home permanently or at all. So for the people that say I'm lucky I can work from home, your luck will be short lived when the rest of the city's economy is imploding because it can't function as it did. Looking at the city's resilience in other crisis of the past isn't valid, it's a different place now with economic inequities between classes that aren't sustainable long term in a pandemic or in a cautious, paranoid post pandemic environment.

Everything goes back to normal. Everyone barebacks again don't they

Things will be fucked up until they find a vaccine

Then they will go back to normal

They may be able to use the interim period to actually fix the subways, given hardly anyone is riding them.

it won't

urban life in america will cage forever

[quote]This could be like colds where there are multiple strains and we know there are no vaccines for colds.

They likely COULD find a vaccine but they don't simply because it isn't cost effective. Colds are a minor inconvenience. We make a vaccine and the cold viruses would mutate before the season ended. The common cold isn't lethal (mostly) so it would be a major undertaking for virtually no reward.

And fucking proud of it, [R15].

I would take that '25% have antibodies' statistic with a few pounds of salt, since many of the antibody tests have been shown to provide up to 15% false positives.

There's already been repeated thread after repeated thread on this OP. Why did you find it necessary to come here and start another? Why? Why OP? Can you give us an intelligent, honest answer? Can you? Why would you come here and post this kind of shit yet AGAIN when there have already been so many prior threads on this EXACT same subject. Do you really think this is that damned interesting that it warrants another entire thread to be started? DO YOU??

Why couldn't you have done a search first OP? That would have been the polite thing to do. What you demonstrated was just plain selfishness. You have shown that you don't think about anybody but yourself. It's all about you and your own satisfaction. Next time before you post, do us all a favor and do a search. We don't need another duplicate thread just because of your laziness.

What is the alternative? The choices are build up or build out. Building out will require more land and both wildlife and the environment will suffer. Also, some of the hardest hit areas are suburbs of NYC.

Fuck you, R38. I like having an NYC specific thread.

Cuomo referred to the homeless takeover of the subways as “disgusting” and “disrespectful.” He should have added it’s truly dangerous and law enforcement has to be deployed.

R38, I'd hate to be in your life.

The R38 post has been repeated in several threads. Don't think you New Yorkers are special.

There is absolutely zero evidence, at this point, and scientists have been looking for it, that antibodies confer immunity for this virus. What that means is, of the thousands of people they've been tracking who have survived the illness and have antibodies, at least some of them have caught it again.

You don’t know that, R43, nobody does. Stop with the fucking fear mongering when you have zero facts to back it up.

r44, I do know that. I just read an article about it. There's no evidence of antibodies conferring immunity. Believe whatever you want to, but that's the fact of the situation today.

The issue in NYC is that most people commute via subway. If they refuse to take the subway how do you get to work? Most people can't work from home permanently. Restaurant servers certainly can't work from home, and no restaurant in NYC will survive if they need to take out half to 2/3 of their tables for social distancing if even for a few months. Other places where people mostly commute by car will recover much better.

The biggest question is: How will anyone determine when New York is "normal"?

[quote]Restaurant servers certainly can't work from home, and no restaurant in NYC will survive if they need to take out half to 2/3 of their tables for social distancing if even for a few months.

No restaurant anywhere can survive this for very long. I'm riding this out in a small City and people here are concerned that bars and restaurants will close because of social distancing.

Let's be honest: there's so much anti-NYC, anti-urban bias fueling these discussions on DL and on a national level.

No one knows where this epidemic will leave us, but please don't use it as some excuse to beat up on NYC.

We're not going anywhere, bitches.

I get a kick out if the anti-urban bias too. The world's population isn't dropping dramatically over this and it's only going to continue to grow over time. There's only so much space you can build on without negatively impacting the environment. It's either build up or build out, and building out has it's issues. What's going to happen is that cities will learn from this and make improvements.

[quote] R26: How are you so sure? This could be like colds where there are multiple strains and we know there are no vaccines for colds

I’ve read that there is too much money in OTC cold medicine, coupled with the reluctance of cheap people from paying for a vaccine for a minor, non-lethal ailment, that it isn't cost effective to even try to make a cold vaccine.

R49, no one wishes harm on any citizens. However, if you were to look back at the arrogance with which New York DL posters speak of the rest of the country, you might understand.

[quote] R43/R44: There is absolutely zero evidence, at this point, and scientists have been looking for it, that antibodies confer immunity for this virus.

I am hopeful that we will eventually learn that infection does indeed create immunity. It’s still possible that those reports of people with multiple infections are just those who never really killed the virus in their system in the first place. A persistent virus could be managed, but one that can reinfect anyone would be a complete, societal catastrophe.

I don't think my old "normal" life will ever come back. I will never again be able to be in a crowded restaurant, maybe 4 inches away from the next person or sit in a crowded doctor's office or even take a car service anywhere. Even if the driver is fine and wearing a mask who was in the car right before me. Corona lingers in air, virus particles just hang there, unlike those of the flu or a cold or anything else. The subway and buses, forget it. Supermarkets, I know I will probably have to but not until there are no cases in NYC for at least 6 months. Then again how would any of us know if there really are no cases. Shopping in non food stores, I can't even think about it. I'm afraid to even get in my elevator. No way to do 6 feet in an apartment or office building or store elevator.

Normal, I don't think so, not ever again.

R46 many of those that were commuting on the subway could cycle. Quite doable in a relatively flat place like Manhatten, its how I got to work before this

I can’t see a vaccine in the next 2 years, if ever. Most people are simply going to have to hope their natural immunity saves their lives.

Assuming that prior infection confers some, if not total, immunity, (and that’s a big “if”), then we will return back to normal after a certain percentage of the population has been exposed to the virus, recovered, and is no longer communicable. Those people could resume a normal life, including working. I don’t know at what percentage of the population that is. Maybe 40%? 80%?

The remaining people, not yet exposed, may be stuck in quarantine longer. There will be bug-chasers who seek infection in the hopes of recovering from it, so that they can go back to work. Of course, many of these won’t survive.

Today, “we’re all in this together”, but that will fall apart after a large number of people think they can go back to work and the heck with those who can’t.

Oh, so, OP, things will get back to that level of normal in less than 2 years. Maybe even by next Spring.

R45, you “read an article”? Smell you. That’s laughable.

R45, it’s NOT a “fact.” Stop lying.

No R55, most, actually the vast majority, will not bike to work for any number of reasons, the simplest being weather. A full ten car subway train, like in NYC 4/5/6 line, has 2000 people on it in the a.m. peak, that's one train. Multiply that by say 20 trains runs in one hour, now you've got 40,000 on just one line in one hour. That's the magnitude of people you are dealing with.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

I have a feeling the NY Waterway is going to be swamped with NJ/NY commuters when things pick-up in NYC again. Nobody will want to be packed liked sardines on the Path train anymore... Sigh, the ferry used to be such a spacious, peaceful, albeit expensive, commute. I hope I am wrong!

Wuflu will become endemic. It'll be just one more thing you don't want to get, like West Nile Lyme or cancer.

[quote] There's no evidence of antibodies conferring immunity.

Beware a statement like this. It might suggest that “we cannot become immune to this virus”. But that’s not what it says. It says that they “haven’t seen evidence of it”, (yet). And that’s a very different thing. There’s still room for hope.

NYC has been dead for years. And it will keep getting more people while losing all its culture and personality.

R62: But MUCH more contagious!

How about getting rid of 9-5? What’s so magical about those hours? Let some work 8-4, some work 10-6, some work 11-7.

I loved 11-7, my favorite shift when I worked in hospitals.

Ya know NYC might be better off from this. All the horrible SATC people will flee. Rents will go down and artists will probably flocked back.

*flock*

are the bathhouses open yet!

I think more NYers will be biking going to work. I know i would if live and work in the city.

Tokyo has bigger population and population density than NYC in addition to locking down late, about 2 weeks ago. Yet their healthcare system isn't strained and only has 3900 cases, and Japan overall only has 13231 cases/ 360 deaths. At some point we will have to examine that lockdown and other pandemic strategies only work as well as the population and culture allow them to be effective.

China, Italy USA ramming very sick people onto ventilators was an act of desperation and hope. I heard a long interview with Bill Gates who says its not the way to treat in a large population. Maybe Japan Taiwan and Germany treated people earlier than the previous countries which were in such overwhelming crisis. USA should have been able to do better but governors, Congress and Trump all delayed way too long. Germany didn't.

Yeah, I was reading something last week that ventilators may not be the way to go.

It's not just New York. It's everywhere. I live in Palm Springs and it's a ghost town that will not recover. I've taken to day drinking and am in a mood.

There was a segment on tonight’s local news about homeless people livIng on NYC subways tonight like it was something that hasn’t been going on for decades. I live in Queens and am over 66. The thought commuting to work again on public transportation is enough to move up my proposed retirement date. Between regular crowding and homeless New Yorkers it will be like traveling in in a Petri dish.

Japanese people do what they are told for the good of society. We have deplorables and millennials.

Nobody and I mean nobody is surprised by the way the USA handled this situation. Aside from having an abject moron as a leader you have a largely class based health care system.

If theater does return to NY no way will senior citizens be allowed entry. Same goes for cinemas.

there won't be restaurants and bars reopening at all. Few will survive. Unless they own the building, most of them will owe rent and won't be able to make any money, and even if they do re-open, how can they make money with 50% occupancy measures etc on top of 3 months' rent? Most of them didn't get any money from Stimulus, the money went to undeserving large chain restaurants and other biz.

and so many people are out of jobs, they won't have money to be spending in bars and restaurants.

I have zero confidence in the MTA, they are probably doing a shitty job cleaning the subways and buses, every one should take a pay cut at the top.

I haven't taken the subway in a few months.

I wonder how many Chinese restaurants will remain closed, both because of rents/lost revenue and also due to irrational hostility towards Chinese and Americans with Chinese heritage. Chinatown might as well be dead.

[quote] I think more NYers will be biking going to work. I know i would if live and work in the city.

Sure. In the rain, the sleet, the snow, the high winds, the ice, the slush the freezing temperatures, the snow mountains at each corner. Sure you would.

This whole farce is a result of the new attitude that people must not die. It would just be so... tawdry. You have to live to 125 now.

If this was 1979, they'd say just get out there and good luck.

R81: I don't know about that...Panda Express in Bayonne had a long line today 🥟🍜

[quote] All the horrible SATC people will flee.

Sure, like they did after 9/11 & superstorm Sandy.

Oh....and SatC ended 16 years ago. Please download your update.

Bayonne?!

R86 - Yes, sigh...I was really craving orange chicken and the one in Jersey City is closed.

What a mess. We are "re-opening" where I live and it's more confusing than ever.

Coronavirus package falls short for lenders to Latino, minority businesses

I wouldn't call Panda Express Chinese food. It's best described as junk food prepared in the manner of Chinese cooking methods and with Chinese seasonings. That said I am a big fan of PE's vegetable chow mein and eggplant tofu. But more often than not when I crave Chinese food it's authentic dim sum dishes you can only get in or around Chinatown. Steamed buns, egg tarts, shrimp dumplings, potstickers, fried taro dumplings.....damn I'm getting hungry.

I haven't had Chinese food in a while...most of the restaurants around me are not even open for delivery...and I'm not taking subway to Chinatown.

R82 yeah biking in horizontal hail can be bracing. But I've done it, 20km home from work.

That said some of the subway lines are long! I'd still take that over sharing a subway with bums though

Biking in Manhattan remains dangerous. I have a friend who was hit by a big truck while she was in a bike path. She is not an aggressive cyclist. She broke her collar bone, broke some ribs and her nipple got ripped of her breast.

I will pass on riding a bike in Manhattan, except along the Hudson.

The Carries and Charlotte wannabes will flee! Back to Ohio!

When asked about the homeless on the subway problem during his press briefing last week, DeBlasio said there have always been homeless on the subways and dismissed the question.

Never like this Mayor Douche Nozzle. Please resign and let someone more capable to your job and go back to Cuba for a second honeymoon with your lesbian baby mama.

The homeless don't even pay to go on the subway, they have other homeless "friends" open the gates for them at the stations.

I don’t known how they’re gonna get people to ride the subway. Right now, homeless people are living in the cars, shitting and pissing in them. So, they will have to someone move them and power wash the cars. And then what happens? The homeless aren’t going to “social distance” or wear masks, even if they’re handed out. Most don’t have the mental capacity. I cannot see myself returning to the 6 train.

I am not going into Manhattan. I'm staying in Brooklyn until I can move out of the city. I will then flee it like I was fleeing an approaching army.

I do think they’ll find out most people were already infected. As others have noted on here, I know people who were very sick in Jan, Feb and now wonder if it was this virus.

I think once immunity is definite, and testing is routine, things can go back to a tentative normal.

Still, I’m not riding the train.

The homeless have masks, I've seen them on the streets with masks around their necks. They used to ride the subways and buses during winter time to escape the cold but I guess now they have taken over since ridership is down.

They were already on the subway before this virus, I've seen it with my own eyes...I suppose now the problem is a million times worse...

R100, they were, yes, but not in these numbers.

"The Carries and Charlotte wannabes will flee! Back to Ohio!"

I guess the native Noo Yawkuhz aren't interesting enough to build a program around.

"The Carries and Charlotte wannabes will flee! Back to Ohio!"

I guess the native Noo Yawkuhz aren't interesting enough to build a program around.

SATC may be gone 16 years now, but they sure nailed the current moment.

Maybe there wouldn’t be as large a homeless problem if Chirlane McCray aka Mrs. Bill DeBlasio hadn’t pillaged the THRIVENYC mental health program to the tune of $1 Billion.

Tube in London is worse. No social distancing and hoes right up in your face on the crowded central London sections

[quote]The homeless have masks, I've seen them on the streets with masks around their necks.

The masks the homeless wear are pointless. They smoke with them on, they touch them all over, the masks are almost never n95, so that doesn't help, because the virus just breathes right through the other kinds.

At least NY has dedicated bike Lanes. Here in Pittsburgh a bike lane is shared with traffic.

The vast majority of the visible homeless are drug addicts, insane or both

They are not going to wear masks.

My prediction is the following:

1) There will be a mass exodus of 20 to 30 somethings - mostly white - that have come to NYC post college. These will be artists who work retail/service jobs, as well as entry and middle management people that get laid off. These are the people whose parents still live in their hometowns. THey'll move back home and settle there. This will coincide with an incredible amount of restaurants, bars and retail establishments closing.

2) While this is going on, a large number of corporations are going to realize that they can reduce their office space significantly, as the pandemic proved you CAN work from home. Most sectors - legal, financial, media - will still maintain a NYC office space but it will be reserved for swing staff or essential elements of the business.

3) The combination of #1 and #2 are going to send a lot of wealthy, upper class workers out of NYC - into suburbs or smaller cities.

All while this will result in the five boroughs being filled with minorities who can't afford to leave, old school white families that have been there forever (see Canarsie, Staten Island, etc) and the incredibly, incredibly wealthy that will retain in certain luxury buildings in Manhattan.

I anticipate a NYC similar to the early 80s where buildings will not have maximum occupancy. Long term, this will leave rents cheaper. This is going to leave the five boroughs with either 1) The incredibl

did r110 just expire from corona, mid-post?

No, but I sort of forgot my thought.

R110, yes, I wonder what will happen...many retail stores were already on life support prior to the virus...

Tourism will be down big time...huge chunk of NYC's economy depend on this...tough times ahead for so many...hotels, theaters, bars, restaurants, the list goes on...

I think R110 is a reasonable generalization. NYC was already the best example of the wealth gap in the country and was on the verge of pushing out the workers who keep the city running. I've read so many articles urging the government to act quickly to prevent it from happening—now they had better step up.

Bill DeBlasio put Steve Banks of Legal AId in charge of the Social Service Agency of NYC. He has crafted policies that invite people with no education and no possibility of ever paying their own way in an expensive city to move to NYC and get all sort of govt benefits for free: housing, welfare, medicaid, food stamps, and the list goes on and on. This was already bankrupting the local economy. It will be interesting how the next mayor deals with the massive entitlements which make NYC the biggest draw for people who cannot take care of themselves.

What R110 said about cutting down on office space - even before the virus, my company was talking about this.

Don't forget, 80's New York drove Tony Danza from the city to Connecticut and right into our hearts.

So if this 80's redux, REJOICE!

R97 the homeless are shitting and pissing in the subway cars? Why move them out to power wash the cars then? Kill two birds with one stone, clean the cars and reduce the stench from the bums themselves

Seriously though, I'd rather risk cycling than deal with that. No wonder so many New Yorkers have died from COVID. De Blasio has blood on his hands by refusing to clean the bums out of the subway

R115. I worked (as a physician) in a number of homeless shelters, and I had patients from all over the state and country. If you claimed mental illness (like "bipolar" ie drug addiction with associated mood changes, or depression) you would get fast tracked into subsidized apartments; you would also get money for essentials, Medicaid, allowance, food stamps and a subway pass. I had patients who had heard that if they landed in NYC, said they had mental illness, they would get a free apartment. And that was true, up to a point.

R118 but how did trump help.

DeB can’t fix that

r115, your use of the word “entitlements” is very Paul-Ryan-esque.

NYC had its breakdown on full display for the world to see. Coupled with the impending rise in crime once things start opening back up, it'll be a hard sell to attract tourists. NYC's subway rides were already bad enough but now the subway likely rival public toilets in filth. How are they going to thoroughly fumigate the cars' interiors?. What's so special about NYC that tourists can't get or experience similarly in other major cities around the world? Shopping? That could be done online. Nightclubs and restaurants? Nothing unique about what NYC has to offer. Broadway? Maybe, but just as well to wait for touring company to hit your city. The last thing any tourist with money to spend is to go to crime-ridden, dirty, corrupt NYC. What this pandemic has taught people is how to pare down and spend money more wisely, but most importantly there's an added layer of caution regarding safety (in full sense of the word) that wasn't there before this happened.

Some great insights, especially about the small restaurants that are 2 months behind on rent.

R110 your summation is good. The exodus was already underway, and this will speed it up.

Restaurant prices will be much higher if cheap labor isn’t available. That will exacerbate the probability that tourism will take a long time to resume.

Small shops and pizzerias don’t own their storefronts, and the capital structure for most landlords makes rent reductions impossible. That’s why there are so many empty shops in midtown, and this virus just made it worse.

Bankruptcy lawyers are going to make big money!

I hope a lot more dollar slice pizzerias pop up. Maybe some will get creative and more affordable take-out places for things like Indian food, Belgian frites and currywurst will emerge.

Frankly I’m thrilled that there won’t be any tour buses clogging up,the streets for a very long time, if ever.

If somebody does a GoFundMe to rebuild a grindhouse/porn house on now-moribund 42nd Street — take all my money.

33,000 New Yorkers out of a population of 5.6 million died of the Spanish Flu in 1918.

NYC didn't close down.

In fact it went on to build ever more apartment buildings, skyscrapers, concert halls and theatres.

No offense OP but what you don't see how could fill a library, the New York City library. Go check it out, when it opens or online.

R126 yes but it wasn’t as mobile a society nor was social media around and economics were hanging by a thread & globally connected.

^No thanks, Probably lots of homeless there too.

r28 As of last week (and these assumptions change quickly) it was pointed out that while tons of people, including myself, got sick anywhere from January to February, less than 1% of them had Corona virus. They do have blood samples to test from that period.

[quote]yes but it wasn’t as mobile a society nor was social media around and economics were hanging by a thread & globally connected.

Makes little difference.

What you must consider is that medicine was still very primitive in 1918. We're in a much better place today, in all aspects, to deal with a pandemic.

After the Spanish Flu and a World War, society shifted into the Roaring '20s and did not look back.

Covid-19? This too shall pass.

The death toll is already slowing down in NYC. Once it's down in double figures, everyone will come back. There's prestige and clout in saying you're from NYC. Same with London. For that reason alone, millions will always want to live there.

I was waiting on a line outside a supermarket talking to someone I knew who was right behind me.; we both had masks and gloves on. A homeless man (questionable) interrupted us and asked her for money, I'm sure he spotted her Valentino bag. He wasn't 6 feet away, she tried to ignore him but he wouldn't go away. She finally went in her bag to give him money so he would leave. I was in CVS before the limited capacity in stores took effect and a nasty USPS woman driver suddenly called out from closely behind me for the pharmacist to open the restroom. He told her he was helping a customer and she just went off on him. All while right behind me. People will still brush up against you in markets. They just don't give a shit and you can't get away from them in this city. I've been thinking about moving out of state for a few years and I think once this settles down I'm finally going to do it.

“Nothing unique about what NYC has to offer. “

Your comment about restaurants is ridiculous. I’ve traveled and eaten all over the world. NYC is up there as one of the best food citIes imaginable ...Queens, NY alone has the most brilliant Asian food, aside from the actual Asian countries themselves.

I thought NYC would crater after 9/11. It skyrocketed back to life after less than a year. The recession of 2008? The real estate market dropped 15% ...then blew the roof off a year later.

And tourism? Give me a break. Have you seen the tourists that come here? They are trashy and the epitome of basic - lemmings without a rational thought in their heads, driven simply to consume. If they still have the means to do so, they will be back within a year.

But I agree with a couple of points. 20 and 30-something’s we’re leaving in droves anyway ...or not even coming here to begin with. They want quality of life in a cool, affordable city with job opportunities. That’s Denver, Cincinnati, Detroit, Louisville, Raleigh-Durham, etc. Those cities are arguably edgier too...you can have a job to get by and pursue other stuff...like art, music, writing. Many of the creative kids do not come to NYC like they used to. All of this will have a massive negative impact on the city. And only get worse post-virus. The talent deficit will be next level.

And it’s not just the kids. People my age (late 40s) who had a vague sense that they would leave the city at some point are out of here. Some have already left and the rest have their date of departure on the calendar.

All of this coupled with a 2nd wave of the virus puts NYC in dark, uncharted territory. But if the past is any indication, don’t underestimate its ability to regenerate. And fast.

R134 Queens has good some great Asian food. However, that’s not an uniquely NYC thing and not something that tourists specifically go to NYC to experience. It’s more like a bonus to residents more than anything. However I don’t agree that the Asian food in Queens is the best outside of Asia.

SF Bay Area, LA, and pockets of Orange County are known for wide varieties of authentic and Pan-Asian cuisine. We’ve had regional types of Japanese, Taiwanese, Chinese, Vietnamese, and Thai food since the 80s. Everything from restaurants to bakeries to grocery stores from SF Bay Area to LA, with certain areas notable for specific cuisines. For instance, we’ve had ramen joints for decades before NYC “discovered” ramen a few years ago. Taiwanese, Japanese, and Vietnamese food in Silicon Valley environs. Japanese, Cantonese, Northern Chinese, and dim sum in SF. LA is sushi heaven. Vietnamese food in Orange County. Sushi bars are as common in LA and SF Bay Area as diners and have been for decades. Japanese-Americans started food companies here decades ago making products like miso.

There are also more varieties of fresh ingredients due to the farms that grow many of these native Asian produce year round. Farms up and down the state growing produce native to Asia. Chino Farms is one of many multigenerational Japanese-American farms dating back to early 20th century, fortunately it’s still around unlike many others. It’s just one of the many reminders that Asian food cultures took hold in California way longer than NYC. So I always find it funny when my cousins who live in NYC claim that they have the best Chinese food or brag about he and his friends being in on the ramen trend a few years back. Whereas I remember going to ramen restaurants when I was a kid in the 80s.

The Asian food is SF is better than in NYC. Lighter and more creative.

I lived in SF for a few years and respectfully disagree re Asian food. I'm a big fan of Xinjiang cuisine. Eden Silk Road in SF is pretty good. But Nurlan Uyghur in Queens is way better. And though thai food is also solid in SF, SriPraPhai and Ayada are in a completely different category.

I'll concede sushi and ramen to SF though. It's brilliant.

But this is a petty argument. My point was, NYC is a VERY unique food city. I still stand by that.

New York will suffer and then it will rebound. As it always does. As did every other world city, ever.

Some people just like to shit on things.

[quote] I was thinking ahead to New a Year’s Eve the other day

Are you Italian?

[quote] it was pointed out that while tons of people, including myself,

*eyeroll*

It won’t rebound tourist-wise until next summer at the earliest. NYC is for people with disposable income and the economic hit this thing is causing is devastating.

R141

Deblassholio isn’t helping.

Restaurants cannot survive his rules. Bars. Parks. SIDEWALKS!

His mismanagement of this will get him exiled from the state.

I don’t really either and this article hits it on the head...

It’s also crazy that so many can make more sitting home collecting unemployment than going to work. That seriously fucks things up for everyone.

r143

All they have to do is call them back to work and if they don't come, bye unemployment. Besides, the extra will only last till the end of July.

Then they'll be begging for their job back but it will go to another person.

R144 Once they reopen in NYC, restaurants will have to cut their tables by 1/2 or more for social distancing. Then the wait staff will be cut by 1/2 or more. Owners may never call back many from their wait staff if they are not needed. They will continue to collect unemployment. And has been said, no restaurant will survive, particularly with NYC rents, at half or less capacity, even in the short term.

About fucking time the subways will be shut down from 1 am to 5 am so each train can be disinfected. The homeless will have to find somewhere else to go now. Thank you, Governor Cuomo.

Why don’t the homeless get on the Metro-North commuter trains, huh? They have bathrooms and padded seats.

Hmmm. I wonder why.

I don't trust the MTA do do anything properly...they are just shutting down to save money...they will clean a little.

The cleaning changes nothing. Even if the subway is impeccably cleaned as soon as one infected person steps on it's no longer disinfected.

There will be a riot in NYC because of income inequality. It will be like in the Dark Knight rises. The poor will finally rebel over the rich.

“Cleaning” from 1am-5am is one thing. Most importantly is HOW they’re going to clean those nasty cars. Are they going to have trained cleaners disinfect and sanitize (spray and wipe down) both exterior and interior like they do with cabs, buses, and subway trains in Taiwan? Or are they going to have untrained transport employees spray haphazardly with Lysol?

Both NY and SF have incredible asian food, you are splitting hairs trying to differentiate them.

But yes to get top tier asian food in NY you have to go to Queens, not Manhattan.

yes, but sadly those unique restaurants in Queens and Chinatown are small mom and pop stores. they are not chains so they might not reopen and even if they do, they might not survive...

Chains like Shake Shack got the the $ from the stimulus.

R151 I think we all know the answer to that, sadly.

Mom and Pop stores got money from the stimulus. All they had to do was apply. There are a lot of write ups in the NY Times, I guess you CONVENIENTLY decided to skip those stories though, because it didn't agree with your view point. Heaven forbid you should read something that would expand your narrow minded views.

R155 as they used to say, that and a dime will get them a cup of coffee.

Restaurants are dead in NY and they aren’t coming back for a LONG time. 50% capacity?? Lol. Pfft. Forget it. 99% of restaurants in NY are on the edge of bankruptcy 100% of the time, and that’s with 100% capacity. If the big restaurateurs are scared you can bet the rest of the industry is straight up fucked.

What will be interesting - almost every one of these business could get the government to pay ALL of their payroll for 2 months. No cost to them. But they have to employ 75% of those people for the next 2 months. What happens when those small restaurants can’t reopen - they are then on the hook for 2 months salaries for their workers OR they have to pay back the money to the government.

It has to force lower rents. So many vacant spaces already. The only places that were willing to waste money on the obscene rents were naive restaurants. Without that, landlords can’t hope to get anywhere close to rents they were asking. Will it be even more vacant storefronts - or will landlords be forced to take lower rents?

'“Cleaning” from 1am-5am is one thing. Most importantly is HOW they’re going to clean those nasty cars. Are they going to have trained cleaners disinfect and sanitize (spray and wipe down) both exterior and interior like they do with cabs, buses, and subway trains in Taiwan? Or are they going to have untrained transport employees spray haphazardly with Lysol?'

So many fraus all over these threads.

NYC is fucked unless people just agree to throw caution to the wind and risk in an effort to get herd immunity. There has never been a vaccine for the COVID family and if a miracle happens, we won't get it anytime soon.

A realistic plan for NYC is to target individual neighborhoods and "open those up" while keeping others on lockdown. While a neighborhood is open, testing should be available daily and infection should be encouraged for those that want to participate. Thus said neighborhood gets herd immunity and is monitored doing it.

Pending some amazing treatments (Theraflu for COVID-19), this is the only way NYC will survive.

R161: White collar NY says "hell no!" Not happening there. Most blue collar NY says "hell no" also.

Poor NY and "outer boroughs" would be on the line for what you suggest... However, smart ones will still say "hell no" since they have unemployment and can ride this thing out longer.

Summer in NYC is over.

You first R161. I have no interest in playing your little completely unproven “herd immunity” game.

Have fun with that, fucko.

Restaurants and retail will close all over the USA. Rents will be forced down. In 2 years, when rents are low enough and there is TREATMENT or VACCINE, those vacant properties can be revived. Some of them might be untouched for 2 years! If 1000s of restaurants close in NY, nobody is going to rent those spaces and nobody is going to be looking for 1000s of restaurants worth or equipment. The first ones to liquidate might find some buyers for kitchen equipment but after that, nobody will buy it. It will sit there. If landlords manage to rent the spaced and all the restaurant fixtures go to the dump, that's life. It's terrible but that is the way this will go down.

A restaurant opened in my building last summer. Closed in January. Hundreds of thousands invested in design and equipment. That was during a “good” time in NYC. Not sure why anyone opens restaurants - even in best of times.

New York will come back. If it survived 9/11 when everyone was terrified of more terrorist attacks, it will survive CV. However, this summer is out.

Biking around NYC is extremely dangerous and I'm not riding an infected subway or Uber. Fortunately we still have horse carriages.

Seoul is denser than NYC. If enough tests are available NYC could follow the South Korean approach. That's a HUGE if. The federal government doesn't seem to be focused on that goal so tests will have to come from other places. In Ohio they are starting to manufacture parts of the tests locally in order to have tests for their reopening plan as it expands. The tri-state area probably has enough medical, chemical and industrial companies to manufacture locally as well. The sooner they can get ahold of tests the smaller the (already huge) economic impact will be. There is no sense in quarantining until a vaccine arrives since it could be years away.

How many times does it need to be pointed out that Covid is NOT 9/11? There is zero equivalency. And people were not “terrified” to be in the city. We were GLAD to be there and stay there and support each other, and the entire country rallied behind NYC. I never dreamed of leaving NY after 9/11.

This is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. Being in a tight urban area is highly dangerous. People are fearful and are leaving in droves. Stop comparing it to 9/11. It’s not.

R110 is wrong. Young people in NYC won’t see a reason to movie out. They think they’re ok with the virus. They figure it’s like the flu. Maybe they’ll get chilblains, big deal. They don’t have diabetes, they’re not obese. Most young drs & nurses in NYC have had it & while it’s sad a few of them died, the vast majority didnt. Even the vast majority of older drs & nurses didn’t die.

I moved into nyc during the AIDS crisis to work as a nurse. Everyone said, “OMG! You’re gonna die! You’re gonna get the AIDS. Don’t come near me, Stay there. Don’t come back you’ll infect everyone,”

But when I moved in, I found tons of other young nurses who also moved in. We all knew we could die from any old thing - we studied the history of nursing in school. We knew nurses caught diseases from their patients & died, especially in 1918. Anyone who was scared should’ve dropped out. There’s never been a time when health care personnel couldn’t become ill from disease. When I was a kid my mother wouldn’t let me go to the town pool because of polio. Drs and nurses could catch polio.

We got a vaccine for polio, but we had swine flu in the 70s & legionnaires disease in the 80s. And AIDS. And then MRSA.

There’s never been a time when we weren't in danger, but we were young, We knew we’d be ok. We knew AIDS wasn’t airborne — this is when I got my first inkling of how dumb Americans are when it comes to healthcare. If AIDS was airborne, NYCs hospitals would be overwhelmed by AIDS patients. They weren’t. Not ever. And btw, healthcare costs EXPLODED because we had to get rid of all reusable stuff in hospitals. Plates, cutlery, cups, soup bowls for 3 patient meals a day. Metal washbasins, emesis basins & bedpans were all sterilized & reused until AIDS came along. Everything was tossed & replaced with one-use-only plastics. Even the little metal tea & coffee pots on patient trays. Gone. No more warm coffee for you.

And for no reason at all. All of that stuff was washed & disinfected & sanitized & often sterilized. You didn’t worry about catching AIDS from metal cutlery in a restaurant. But we had to throw everything away in the hospital.. We had never reused anything in our hospitals that could have spread AIDS. Not even thermometers. We used electronic thermometers with disposable covers. Notice this - we didn’t throw away out stethoscopes or blood pressure cuffs after one use. We never even cleaned the blood pressure cuffs! But Americans insisted they could not eat from plates that had been washed & disinfected in a dishwasher, while uncleared blood pressure cuffs were reused for years. Lol

A tall building getting blown up is vastly different from a virus that you can get from someone sneezing or breathing on you while riding the subways.

Great post, R170 -- and bravo for your many years of selfless, courageous work! Maybe we'll see a turn away from the throw-away culture as an awareness of our fragile place in the world grows.

R170 Thanks for sharing your story working with HIV/ AIDS population in NYC. My nursing professor in SF was one of the original nurses who cared for what was then unknown virus affecting gay men in SF. She used to tell us stories that are as amazing and sad at the same time of when she and other nurses who worked the AIDS units then became experts of the disease as most importantly as advocates for patients and against public ignorance.

[quote]Maybe they’ll get chilblains, big deal.

C’mon, r170! Think man, think!

Where are they gonna get chilblains with all the restaurants closed? Sheesh.

(I kid out of love, because I have the greatest respect for you, who you are and what you did/do.)

[quote] She used to tell us stories that are as amazing and sad at the same time of when she and other nurses who worked the AIDS units then became experts of the disease as most importantly as advocates for patients and against public ignorance.

And now you’re doing that advocating.

Full circle.

[quote] I was thinking ahead to New a Year’s Eve the other day. Even if we return to some semblance of normalcy, I can’t imagine one million people crowding into Times Square to watch the ball drop.

I think that’s where this thing got its head start.

Sorry for the long run-on sentence but your description of working in AIDS units R170, brought me back to stories that my nursing professor told us. I get very emotional when I think of those stories and the ways in which she told them. When I got my BSN and started a job on a adult unit, we'd still get the occasional end stage AIDS patients but it was during a time when cocktail drugs and regimens were starting to turn the tide against HIV developing into AIDS. Thank god for that development and now it's no longer a death sentence.

I think there are some parallels and comparisons to the AIDS pandemic and COVID-19. People think and behave irrationally and against common sense at time. Both pandemics started out with a lot of misinformation and people acting out of ignorance and fear.

[quote]Both pandemics started out with a lot of misinformation and people acting out of ignorance and fear.

How do you see people exhibiting ignorance and fear around COVID-19?

I’m not that person, r178, but I can respond at least to the fear portion:

I’m getting a little better now but I was virtually paralyzed with fear over this thing. As an essential worker I have no choice but to go to work but it wasn’t easy.

This thing almost took a friend of mine who, by all accounts especially in the beginning, should not have been a fatality. Relatively young guy (40s), in good shape, no underlying issues. It hit him like a ton of bricks and he was on a ventilator for two weeks. That news hit me hard. Fortunately, he pulled through and has since been discharged, but that’s when I became really (almost ridiculously) afraid of this thing.

I’ve always been a fatalist and, as I shared in other threads, was convinced I was going to die from AIDS in spite of the fact I was too young to be sexually active.

[quote/] “The Paycheck Protection Program,” he says, “just doesn’t work for restaurants. It’s a waste of time.” For instance, he explains, “I’ve got money from the government in my bank account right now that is next to worthless.” That’s because the forgiveness of PPP loans is predicated on retaining employees on payroll, and that ship has long sailed for the vast majority of restaurateurs. What’s worse is that loan forgiveness is pegged to two months from the date of origin of the loan, which means those loans will ripen for collection — June, for most — when most restaurateurs still won’t have the income they need. “Now,” Colicchio says, “if we change the date of origins to when I open, and I have, say, four months of protection once I open the doors, that makes sense.” But, Colicchio points out, little about the governmental response thus far has made sense. “People don’t know how bleak it really is,” he concedes. “A lot of restaurants are not going to come back.” [/quote]

I think there is an element of hysteria, but I think a lot of landlords will have vacant spaces for the next 6-12 months as this shakes out, especially when you consider the fact that companies are also looking to downsize and move more remote.

The city will bounce back for sure, though. I could totally see those spaces becoming coworking and multipurpose places, ushering in a whole new city.

One hopes, at least.

Also, how the fuck do you do quotes here???

There really should be a "how-to" thread or link or something.

Jeez!

R181 you type [ quote ] before what you want to quote without the spaces of course. You don’t end the quote like other boards, so you don’t type [/quote] at the end.

Each return at the end of a line closes the quote so if you’re quoting multiple paragraphs, you must “open” the quote before each new line.

R153, didn’t you read about Shake Shack returning the stimulus moolah? I did.

R183 PR move. That said I’ll take it.

R178 Ignorance from people who willfully ignore social distancing guidelines, people who support politicians out for blame instead of concentrating on effective plans for mitigation and future prevention. Ignorance early on from racists who openly demean or attack Asian-Americans. I still know people who won't get takeout from Chinese restaurants out of ignorance in thinking they'd get food contaminated with the virus. Fundie idiots going on about god protecting against viruses. Ignorance in shoddy news reports regarding fragments of RNA found weeks after cruise ship evacuation, as if that was the same thing as active infectivity.

At this current stage fear is the bigger problem. Majority of people with COVID-19 do not experience life-threatening symptoms requiring ICU-level care. Most people do recover, though to be fair we don't know if there is longterm immunity with recovery. I think fear has reduced many news outlets to jump on the newest data or evidence as the end-all or be-all truth. Fear about vaccines being rushed when I can guarantee you many were also the ones who bemoaned the likelihood of vaccines not ready for the next round of of COVID-19 season. We simply don't know all we need to know about this virus yet But that doesn't stop many people to latch onto doomsday scenario as gospel even when current evidence doesn't support it. Conversely, we have Republicans who have their own doomsday scenario of equating easing lockdown with economic catastrophe and elevating the latter above public health considerations.

Ignorance and fear from both sides of political spectrum, just my opinion. For now we can only make the best decisions based upon available facts and evidence. I just finished quarantine at home after testing positive myself, I likely got it from our clinic patient(s). Didn't experience any serious respiratory symptoms. Retested after 3 weeks and got the results which is negative (swab) but most importantly I tested positive for IgG antibodies (blood). Does it mean that I have longterm protection? No one can say definitively at this time. Still wearing mask when I go out just in case. It's more for risk management, sort of like looking at a potential risks and gauging severity and likelihood of negative consequences. Kind of like what R179 said about having a fatalistic outlook on things. Much of that way of thinking is influence by 24/7 coverage by news outlets. At some point we're all going to have to do some sort of personal risk management and weigh that against available evidence and outside forces we can't control.

I’ve always wondered why the homeless didn’t take to the the MetroNorth trains.

I would actually enjoy watching the subway car cleaning process. Watching all the grime washes away. I wish they would livestream it!

My sister says last few years there are street living homeless now in towns up to Poughkeepsie. 10 years ago, no.

R170 - I appreciate the work you did for HIV/AIDS. In terms of young people moving into the city and that they will for COVID - I'm not sure I agree. I can't speak for medical professionals, but NYC is untenably expensive. Most 20/30s people in NYC either work in the service/retail/tourism industry, or have positions at companies that will be cut. They can't afford to stay. NYC in the early 80s was hospitable to people that didn't make money.

I imagine squatters will have a wonderful time in New York over the next two years.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

I think young people would ignore it and still want the big city experience - but they don’t have the option to indulge in the reason young people move to NYC which is the bars, restaurants and social events where you meet people and experience NYC. It’s not the disease that will scare people off - it’s the absence of anything to do.

R179, what was your friend's hospital bill?

A friend works in midtown finance field, their company is having half of their workers come back May 15 for 2 weeks, they then go back to working from home and the other half of the workers will come in for 2 weeks and rotate.

R185

Great post

This should not be political...but 99% of our life should not be political!

PLEASE start a thread for people the recovered from C19

Thank you, R182.

That was incredibly helpful. I still wish there was a list or FAQ or something. Oh well...

R192 It's NY. Cuomo and the state legislature will make sure insurance companies pay for coronavirus care; they are already working on that.

I have MVP, one of NY's largest insurance providers. All coronavirus testing and treatment is covered, regardless of deductible.

“ Young people in NYC won’t see a reason to movie out. ”

No, respectfully, I disagree completely. Especially in comparing your experience moving to the city - when it was radically more affordable - to what the city is today.

And data bears it out. Young educated kids aren’t moving here like they used to, and the ones who do stay for about 4 or 5 years - then move on to some of these upstart b-tier cities. Raleigh-Durham, Denver, Austin, Detroit - where there are amenities, culture and careers in addition to affordability and with it, quality of life.

We’ve had an outflow problem for a few years - more people leaving than moving in. The model has become unsustainable due to how prohibitively expensive it’s become. And absurdly crowded.

Also, you do realize that layoffs haven’t even begun, right? Marketing, advertising, finance and tech will be first. Then the public sector: teachers, cops, firemen, sanitation workers (my scenario assumes that Trump gets re-elected, which I think he will).

This is not the AIDS crisis. It’s not 9/11. Covid is cutting a unique path of destruction, which has its own set of repercussions and implications. I mean, sure, people will always move here. But the trend had peaked . This city is going to empty out in a way most have never seen before.

I would love to be complete off-base in this assessment. And maybe I am.

Just watch what happens in the next couple of months, though - especially after July 1st which is the start of the new fiscal year. The streets are going to be awash in a tsunami of pink slips.

Everything will go back how it was.

R196

I wish you were too.

Hollowing out is the trend. The stickiness of rent will prevent revitalization efforts for a decade.

The wealthy, capable of “living” in Manhattan, will not notice until their local shops start closing.

Yes, prior to this virus, people were already leaving the state esp among the wealthy, read many newspaper articles about it. taxes are too high.

Terrific post, R195, thanks. You gave me a reason to come back to this particular thread because the Coronavirus Freakout ones make me...sort of freakout.

No offense, R195, I meant R185.

The Asian cities experience with SARS could be seen as an example. Largely back to business after - but now they are better prepared to be proactive when the next one hits. It didn’t change anything dramatically. Nor will Covid. Other than better preparedness, more awareness of precautions and earlier shutdowns next time.

NYC will change, but it depends on what the other cities do. Right now, no one is going anywhere - even rich people - because the rest of the country is also shutdown. 30% of ALL rental leases (commercial and residential) are not being paid. Even businesses that have a cash reserve are cutting salaries. Nothing is happening anywhere so there's nowhere to run to. The only people that are leaving are those that lost their jobs, can't pay rent and are moving back in with their parents.

However, if the rest of the country begins to come back faster than NYC in six months or so, THAT is when you will see the real exodus.

R202. SARS was traced to the consumption of masked palm civets, which were farmed as a delicacy in China. The civets were infected with SARS but didn't become overly ill. A certain type of bat is the reservoir of SARS. China culled the civet population once the link was found. However, civets have crept back into the diet. SARS will reappear anytime there is a "spillover event" in which a host animal with SARS interacts with humans in a way that allows the virus to jump from animal to human.

Covid 19 is a spillover event as well, in which a virus infecting certain animal populations was able to jump to humans (typically by consumption).

These viruses are all RNA viruses which mutate rapidly (as opposed to DNA viruses).

At some point, a very lethal virus will spill over, spread and really destroy us. And NYC will be just a dream then.

“At some point, a very lethal virus will spill over, spread and really destroy us.“

Except the more lethal a virus is, the faster it burns out. It doesn’t give itself the chance to infect another host so it sputters pretty quickly.

Yes but NYC is SO much of a city based on going out, a thousand times more than any other. Events especially — fashion and other entertainment centric events, 90 percent of what draws what we’re still calling the SATC transplants will not be back and up and running for at least a couple of years. To say nothing of restaurants, bars etc — at least half of which won’t come back etc.

This can’t be at all compared to 9/11. From 9/12 on we were in recovery mode. Yes for a while we wear fearful of another attack, but in reality we were no more at risk than pre-9/11 (actually less so). And nothing was closed! We could connect with people! It was like the death of a very closed loved on. There was a proper “Mourning period” and then we moved on, and made peace with going to third base with the PSA and taking our shoes off every time we had to go thru security.

Yes, you can't compare 9/11 to COVID. Tourism took a hit, but most businesses kept on and were open. This is a disease that thrives on human contact, which is at the base of our primal needs as well as economic endeavors.

That said, I hope NYC goes back to as it was in the 1980s - affordable, while understanding there are pockets for the super wealthy. If that means it's less safe, oh well.

Thanks R200, I've avoided that running thread for now because it got to be doomsday all the time and people finding reasons to believe in the worst case scenario. It got to be too repetitive. Initially griping about a vaccine being far-off into the future to now complaining about vaccines being tested and possibly approved too quickly.

I know someone (friend of a friend) who also tested positive. She was quarantined at a nearby hotel (due to having roommates). I called her after my friend asked me to do so, to calm her down since she was having anxiety attacks. When told of her positive test results she started crying because she thought she was going to die. Never mind she's healthy and didn't have any underlying health conditions. Anyways I taught her how to do deep breathing and calming exercises as well as self chest percussions. Promised to check up on her every 12 hours even though she wasn't my patient and I was also in quarantine myself. She's fine now even though her symptoms were worse than mine, she still sounds raspy from the dry cough but she's no longer having anxiety about dying from it.

R205. The influenza virus, smallpox virus, and yersinia pestis (responsible for black death) beg to differ with your conclusion.

Tourism will die in NYC because of DeBlasio. He has failed miserably with the homeless over the past 7 years and it is only getting worse now with Covid.

He is now putting homeless in NYC hotels. Less hotel rooms for tourists, and all it will take is one rape of a tourist from one of these mental cases (who should be kept elsewhere) and the tourism bubble will deflate completely.

Create a different public place besides the public hotels where the homeless can be relocated. The bed bugs, lice, maggots, and public health diseases they many will bring will ultimately bring down the tourism industry. It is not sustainable and not practical. What a mess DeBlasio is inflicting on NYC.

[QUOTE] To say nothing of restaurants, bars etc — at least half of which won’t come back etc.

This is hilarious. Why will 50% never come back after being closed for what - three, four months? You sound deranged.

for r205

I’m just starting to block all the “it will come back exactly the same next week” comments. Delusional nutbag Trumpers, and I’ve had it with them on this site.

"Less hotel rooms for tourists, and all it will take is one rape of a tourist from one of these mental cases (who should be kept elsewhere) and the tourism bubble will deflate completely."

News flash! Tourism HAS deflated.

Besides, this is a temporary preventative measure to stop transmission. There are no tourists here right now. And those homeless people won't be there indefinitely.

Unbunch your panties, stat.

"Why will 50% never come back after being closed for what - three, four months? You sound deranged."

Wow. You really don't know anything. Restaurants operate now with the slimmest of profit margins. All it takes is less than 60 days with no business and you're fucked. Bills, rent, insurance, re-ordering food - trying to get your employees back, many of whom have left the city because they couldnt afford to stay. Couple that with mandated social distancing prohibiting more than 50% capacity of any business and you have a nightmare scenario.

R214 So you think that homeless rights advocates and their lawyers will allow the homeless to be kicked out of the hotels onto the streets? I doubt this is temporary.

I live in NYC and have a so-called “essential” job for a hospital which I can do remotely. Our office is a few blocks from the hospital proper so there’s no patients around. On Monday I decided to return to the office just for a change of scenery to get out of my apartment. The office holds about 200 of us and I was the only one there. I took the subway there, it wasn’t completely empty- I’d say there were about 15 masked people in the car including a few non-masked homeless. It’s a forty block ride to my apartment, so I decided to walk when possible. It’s a long walk, but decent exercise and I could certainly use it but you still pass people on the sidewalk, masked and unmasked.

Maybe it’s not worth the risk, the office is safe and empty but getting there has potential for me to be exposed to people.

“So you think that homeless rights advocates and their lawyers will allow the homeless to be kicked out of the hotels onto the streets? I doubt this is temporary“

Yes it is baked into the agreement with the hotels.

I wasn’t going to be a dick and lord of this conversation with my expertise, but I work in city government, adjacent to the mayor’s office. I know for a fact that this is a provisional agreement. You may not like the mayor but facts are facts. Your little rape catastrophe fantasy is nothing more than feverish speculation.

Everyone wants the city up and running - back to full capacity and generating maximum tax revenue. Given that, turning hotels into permanent flophouses is the furthest thing from anyone’s agenda.

Hopefully for most cities, we will see a reduction in cafe and restaurant churn. Less places, more long term institutions known for quality, less 'chasing cool' and need to renovate and change decor and refit out places. More sustainability.

Homeless in hotels rooms = fewer tourists = happy New Yorkers.

[quote] didn’t you read about Shake Shack returning the stimulus moolah? I did.

Yes, but it was too late. The program had closed to others because it ran out of money.

Say someone puts $20 in a hat in the office and says “buy yourselves lunch.” I wait on line and take $5 for my lunch. You come in first, though, and take $15 because you have a staff who knew how to play the game. Now the whole $20 is gone, so the hat goes away and no one after us can take any money.

That’s what happened here. Once the money was gone, the program went away.

R218 all your liberal positivity will bring the city further down the crapper. The homeless are unclean and need supervision. They will bring disease and other ills to the hotels which will take a long time to eradicate. Bedbug outbreaks will be common, just for starts. The covid19 will be the next hotspot in city hotels because the homeless will not stay in their rooms and won't wear masks. Their mental diseases will be too much for hotel staff. Criminal activity and violence will go down. This is a disaster just waiting to happen.

R185/r208,

I can’t thank you enough. For the first time in weeks (weeks!) I’ve breathed a tiny sigh of relief after reading your very intelligent and experienced post.

I’m sitting here with tears in my eyes (I know, I know, MARY!!) because I was just like your friend and I didn’t even test positive (or test at all) since I have no symptoms. I genuinely thank you.

By the way,

[quote] as well as self chest percussions.

Does this work on “other” parts of the body? Asking for a horny friend.

[quote] but I work in city government, adjacent to the mayor’s office.

So you’re what the DL would call mayor-adjacent?

R222, Bedbugs are not associated with homelessness

Yeah, I’m wondering what happens as to the subway when you have a population unable/unwilling to wear masks or even cover their mouths when they cough.

A couple of weeks before I started working from home, there was a guy outside my building begging for money for food. A woman and I both went to a deli and got him food, which he angrily rejected. He then started asking for money to get home. He was getting right into peoples’ faces. I’m not people are going to be tolerant of unmasked homeless invading their personal space.

Anyone ride the disinfected subway today?

The disinfecting doesn’t begin until next Wednesday.

The disinfecting must be for a strictly limited period of time. No way can they shut down the entire subway system overnight for more than a month. It would make the economic crisis much worse.

Subway disinfecting is meaningless....once an infected person gets in a car, it's infected again.

R223 The weird thing about it was that I lost all sense of smell and to a degree taste when I was symptomatic. Sensory loss also affected my libido greatly and I had no chance to test out self percussion or other tactile activities on myself, LOL.

R217 I agree there are essential jobs in hospitals that do not deal with patient care. The hospital should allow you and others who hold these positions to work remotely from home. Maybe this will become the new normal after the pandemic is resolved.

My two cents worth on why tourism will suffer. When people around the world see videos such as the man beating up that Asian guy inside a subway car while surrounded by riders who do nothing, it doesn’t really inspire confidence in wanting to visit NYC anytime soon. They see that as just another reminder and sign of a city in decay.

A friend manages a small Irish bar, the owner has ordered 30 kegs of Guinness for St Patrick's day, they are now sitting wasted. I read that beer only stays fresh 2 to 5 months

[quote] The disinfecting must be for a strictly limited period of time. No way can they shut down the entire subway system overnight for more than a month. It would make the economic crisis much worse.

Cuomo—who is running this, not deBlasio who did nothing—has not set a timeframe on stopping this. Ridership is down 94% as it is, it can’t cause that much more damage. They estimated 11,000 people in a city of 8M ride the subway during those hours.

[quote]Subway disinfecting is meaningless....once an infected person gets in a car, it's infected again.

Agree totally. The first stop at the first station that takes on an infected passenger and that’s that. All the time, energy, disruption, and effort for naught.

[QUOTE] Bedbugs are not associated with homelessness

well certainly live, fleas, scabies, foul odors, and socially objectionable behaviors like panhandling and spitting are though.

Why can’t they keep up the cleaning regimen?

Who cares about NYC?! That place has been over for years. It’s almost flyover country.

R236, Even before this virus, I wanted out of NYC. One of my biggest pet peeves is litter. I want to move to a cleaner place.

BUT, there are things I will miss about NYC for sure, especially the food.

They are currently only cleaning the trains every 72 hours per cuomo's press conference when he announced the shutdown from 1am-5am.

They are currently only cleaning the trains every 72 hours per cuomo's press conference when he announced the shutdown from 1am-5am.

The loss of the senses of smell and taste caused by covid19 might entice more people into practicing rimming.

So it's not ALL bad.

Bedbugs are often found on the homeless in their bags and clothing. Many have severe mental disabilities which make them violent and aggressive. They have no place in a hotel. I would not book a hotel in NYC for a long time after the last homeless has left the building.

The disinfecting is a gesture to New Yorkers and a ploy to get the homeless out. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to realize that. It won’t be long term.

the homeless are a public health threat, especially during a pandemic

Let them all move to Mrs. DeBlasio's so she can finally spend the missing 700 million for mental health initiative, watch how fast she gets them out of her way

Don’t nobody got time for that.

pepper spray anyone who gets in yo face

“what dis shit in my ‘fro? A bed bug? MAAAAAA!!!!”

Good inside baseball R246

Whatatwat.

Interestingly, things are starting to open up a bit--there are people walking about now in the daytime, whereas to this point the streets were almost deserted.

The warmer weather will continue to pull people outside, presumably.

In terms of cars it seemed like a perfectly normal Saturday on the UWS. I did notice a lot more cyclist, on bikes and motorcycles, which can’t be good. Still quite a few ambulance sirens but I live fairly close to Mt. Sinai.

R248 and CNN’s reporting on “all the people in Central Park” today like they’re their mommy and they’re staying out past curfew!! Nag nag nag!!

Where are you, r248?

Or where are you from?

[ quote ] R182

[R182]

r21 If you read it in the NY Post it must be true!

I wonder how many gangbanger thugs/cunts have died. I’d enjoy reading that story.

I know two small business owners (a boutique and a production company) and they were both denied. One was told “the money ran out”.

R251, I’m not r248, but I’m on the UES. There were so many people outside yesterday, in Carl Schurz Park. It was like any other warm weekend day, except for the masks.

There are a few restaurants that will sell you drinks in a “go-cup” and strictly enforce a 6-ft distance if you decide to stand there and talk to others. A frozen yogurt shop surprised me by being open. Coffee and juice shops. Many places that were delivery-heavy anyway.

[quote] outside yesterday, in Carl Schurz Park.

The creator of Peanuts has a park named for him in New York City? Oh, how nice.

the bars in Astoria aren’t doing a good job at enforcing a 6’ distance between patrons, they’re congregating on the street drinking and also making a mess. The mayor will probably shut them down in the next few days. Can’t make the street a nuisance like it’s Bourbon Street, people likee there.

The bars are open in Astoria!?! How did I not know this? How is that possible? I want to go.

Rolls eyes at R213.

correction: the bars are serving drinks to people to-go only, in Astoria and elsewhere. You can’t enter the bar, they pass it though the door or a window.

I thought NYC had laws prohibiting drinking alcohol openly on the street?

R263 I’m not sure about openly right on the street but you can take it out from restaurants and bars now. Desperate times. And not just for us but for the owners who need to make money any way they can.

Why did Muriel paywall the official covid threads

GURL DOWN! I'm Lovin' It!

We’re laughing too because we have no idea what you’re trying to say.

Wasn't "GURL" over about 5 years ago? Must be a Brit.

Or an Albanian.

Was NYC ever normal?

You will have bums outside every store asking you for change and money or food. It's already happening. Prior to the virus, it's usually a homeless person hanging outside McDonalds, opening door for everyone and asking for change.

Now it's outside every Duane Reade, CVS, supermarket etc. They are asking you for change, can you help them out etc and the guy who hangs outside the supermarket will ask you, can you buy me this, that etc?

The bums even come up to you on the street to ask you for money now. Happens every single time I go out.

R271 they’re getting more and more aggressive.

How is DL fave Michael Alig faring during this trying time?

The unfortunate people asking for money are only a fraction of a fraction of what's to come as help for the poor is cut deeper and deeper. Soon the working poor, many of whom work 3 jobs, hard jobs, not ass sitting at a desk jobs, won't be able to feed themselves or their families or have a roof over their heads. Next will come the formally middle class, they might be a little better dressed but they will still be all over asking for money, probably with a much more embarrassed look, along with a look of fear in their eyes.

If you demand of your representatives, be they blue or red, that they increase things that help the poor, SSI, SSDI, SNAP, Medicaid, etc. you won't just be helping these people. You'll be helping yourself. At first, when living on the street and/or hunger sets in they will ask, most nicely for help. When things get worse and worse for them and if they have kids seeing those kids go hungry or go without medical care when they're really sick or hurt or maybe their mates, or parents they will stop asking and take. If you're not one of the billionaires who put them in this position, and I assume most here are not, you will not be living behind a guarded and gated home. You will not have bodyguards to escort you into every store or in and out of your homes or doctor's office or anywhere. This is what it will come to.

We need to not look down on these people and consider them pests for they will become much more than pests, they will become a danger to you. Wouldn't it be, if not the decent thing to do, at least easier to go after your reps now telling them they need to tax the billionaires and not cut from the poor or you can wait to live a life of fear and danger you never dreamed of.

tax the billionaires?!!! Hahahahahah. I heard one of Geneva Switzerland's socialists use this argument on TV the other day, because we have the highest concentration of them. Never gonna happen. Try that on in Denmark. Maybe.

R275 Off with their heads!

R273 Lockdown has meant more quality share-apartment-with-corpse-time.

How long can you collect unemployment benefits for in NY? I thought it was26 weeks? someone told me it was 1 and a half years! no way!

It’s 26 weeks but they just added on a 13 week extension. No more than that. You can only reapply when your particular benefit year date ends.

Capital One staffers to work remote till Sept. as Wall St. weighs reopening In a memo to staff on Tuesday, Capital One Financial’s chief executive Richard Fairbanks announced that the $370 billion bank will keep all non-essential offices closed through the summer until “at least Labor Day,” which falls on September 7 this year.

“Given current health conditions and uncertainties in our major markets, we feel this decision supports the health and safety of our associates and communities,” Fairbanks wrote.

The CEO also made it clear that Capital One staff would be given six weeks notice before any reopenings occur, adding “We anticipate any return to co-location will be slow, staggered, and safe.”

Capital One’s home state is planning to start its reopening on May 8, but the Tysons, Virginia-based lender made it clear that it will continue to make its decisions independently based on employee safety.

The four-month horizon outlined by Fairbanks is one of the first laid out by a Wall Street CEO and is expected to set a cautious tone for the industry.

Goldman Sachs chief David Solomon informed his staff on Tuesday that the megabank has already reopened offices in Asia and Europe, but said offices in London and global headquarters in Lower Manhattan will remain closed for the foreseeable future.

“In certain cities, such as New York and London, it will take longer before we start to slowly increase the number of people in our offices,” Solomon wrote in a memo seen by Reuters.

Solomon also cautioned Goldman staffers that he rejects the notion of a “one size fits all” approach to reopening the $992 billion firm’s offices in 30 different countries around the globe.

Of course, Wall Street has already taken a fair amount of flak for its early handling of the coronavirus, includes delays in closing the New York Stock Exchange floor and criticisms that major banks, including JPMorgan, continued to require traders and salespeople to report to work.

R271, what part of the city do you live in? This type of behavior has been happening for years in HK/garment district. I live in the west 30s and the bums have always been a pox on our society. Without normal foot traffic in the area they are setting up shop on stoops with chairs and cardboard boxes.

The police really need to come and get them out of here. They’re clearly all drunk and high- find a law to bust them and give them the option to leave or be arrested.

They are getting louder and louder at night. Constant screaming and yelling. Certainly disturbing the peace citations are in order.

T247 is pure comedy gold. The homeless will have a hard time getting past my two German Shepherds and my automatic.

Sorry meant R274

The New York Times HQ won't reopen until September.

I live in PA with a large community of commuters by bus to Manhattan. Those buslines are currently and totally shut down.

And September when all these offices think they’re reopening will be right when the second wave starts.

Neiman-Marcus is folding-shock, horror! What other NYC retail outlets will go under? I think American Eagle will be OK.

The party supply store on 14th Street is opening next week for curbside pickup. Guess balloons are now essential.

My building in Brooklyn is owned by Hasidic Jews. I am very certain they will soon be sending out a letter to all tenants with a phone number to call if you need rental assistance or a rent deferment. I am sure of it. Such warm hearts.

R289 evil peoples, but hung and I mean hung... like 8-9”+

Andrew Cuomo @NYGovCuomo · 3h #BREAKING: New York State will extend the moratorium on evictions for those facing COVID-related hardship for an additional 60 days — until August 20.

Today we are banning late fees and missed payments fees during the eviction moratorium period.

We are also allowing renters facing COVID-related hardship to use their security deposit as payment and repay the deposit over time.

I don’t know R290. There are a few who try to jerk off in the gym steam room. They look weird being pervs with those crazy curls. None of them are hung.

Good news: the social distance violators will not be sunning themselves this weekend.

Gonna be rough turfing out the homeless tonight and tomorrow during a bad rainstorm.

My landlord upped my rent 35% last renewal, I really really hope the rental market tanks and there are more options for renters going forward.

R295

Doubtful.

Trillions of dollars have been created out of thin air in the last two months, and those dollars will chase goods that have been limited and disrupted by the virus.

If you only have $5 Trillion in your entire economy, domestically, and you double the amount to $10 Trillion...ceteris paribus, everything in the system will double in price.

With a gallon of milk cost $10, beef approaches $30/lb, vegetables are limited, international condiments and foods are sporadically available...

Americans haven’t seen anything yet, and it sucks.

Guns, silver/gold, and capital equipment/farmland will be the only categories that retain value.

I should think a fair amount of Upper West Side rent control apartments will be loosened up this year. Building managements must be ecstatic.

R297 We ready, make Escrow in cash monies.

Re: R297.... is it evil to wish CV19 only targeted wealthy elders with rent control?

Rent-controlled apartments, to be clear. Not rent-stabilized.

R299 is a Trumpkin Russian bot. Block and ignore.

Well, some things are returning to normal.

R282 misplaced confidence is the downfall of every fool.

It’s a shame that your dogs will be killed. You, on the other hand, deserve what’s coming to you.

NYC will return to normal faster than anywhere in the US. With the high numbers of infection they are much closer to herd immunity than anywhere else.

A listener just called into Brian Lehrer’s radio show and ripped DeBlasio a new asshole about how dangerous it is to socially distance without open streets to pedestrians. DiBlasio was defensive and an asshole, of course. He claims that a hundred miles will eventually be opened up to pedestrians but I ain’t buying it.

r301 The most shocking part of that story is that the police actually investigated it. Most people would claim fraudulent charges and amex would just drop the charges from your card with hardly any investigation. The daughter really went out of her way getting the police involved. Also, the story never states how they figured out which nurse stole the card.

The nurse is Martha Stewart without makeup.

There goes the neighborhood!------------

Glitzy NYC hotel takes in homeless from overcrowded shelters

A glitzy Manhattan hotel has opened its doors to the city’s homeless to ease crowding at shelters during the coronavirus.

Dozens of former shelter residents spent Friday night checking into the Bentley Hotel on the Upper East Side, where more than $200-a-night rooms offer stunning views of the East River and 59th Street Bridge.

The men marveled at the plush digs as they were processed through the lobby of the luxury hotel, grateful to leave what they described as dangerously crowded, drug-ridden shelters thanks to the non-profit DOE Fund.

“This a lot better. More disciplined. No one doing drugs [in the hotel], no one doing K-2. Much safer,” said Marvin Joseph, 47, who was waiting with about thirty other people packed in the hotel lobby at 72nd street and York Avenue.

Marvin had been staying at a shelter on Porter Avenue in Bushwick, Brooklyn, where he said two people died of coronavirus.

The new hotel guests huddled closely together — with most not wearing masks — as they passed through a metal detector by the front doors. Any lighters or weapons were confiscated

Others were seen waiting for food delivery as dozen Dominos pizzas arrived for a late dinner.

“You still gotta be careful in here, wear a mask, wash your hands,” Porter said, gesturing to the crowd.

“I mean, look at this – all the people are close – I don’t like the way they have it.”

The hotel boasts a fitness center, cable, “premium” bedding, and close proximity to Central Park. It was not clear how many amenities, if any, the men would have access to.

The guests said they were under the impression that their stay could extend for six months.

“They said this may be seasonal,” one man said. “This just how we going to be living.”

The Manhattan-based DOE Fund helps find housing and work for homeless and formerly incarcerated men.

R307 oh good, the bedbugs were starving.

I'm glad for those guys, but the temporary solution is unsustainable.

R306 The blonde is the dead guy's wife. The thieving nurse has dark hair and glasses.

I wish I had stock in the company that makes those Japanese Fuckbots!

Everybody deserves some spa treatment from time to time. EVERYBODY. Now where's mine?

Give ‘em an inch, they’ll take a mile. Tale as old as time.

This milk is sour! I blame DeBlasio!

Don’t drink the milk. Pass it on.

R 315............

Love love love The Little Rascals. Thanks R316!

Ahem!

The thief nurse from Staten Island used dead patient's credit card to buy gas among other items, easy to track

Thanks, Columbo.

Mike Bloomberg's studio apartment (tiny apartments) phase is OVAH!!! They are going to have to do rent control and increase floor plans per person/family.

My guess is many companies are going to move out of new york. The majority of the people just live there for the job. Most people do not really like New York. No nature, smells like piss, overly expensive.

It just occurred to them that they have to clean the trains?

Thank god the tour bus companies and souvenir stores will fold.

And those hot Eastern European pedicab boys will have to start selling their asses to make ends meet.

R321 ‘Most people do not really like New York’???

actually, I hear it a lot. People are just living in New York because of their job.

Bullshit, R326. Plain and utter bullshit.

You’rec”hearing it a lot” says it all. You do know that Trump uses that phrase when he’s lying, right?

[quote] It just occurred to them that they have to clean the trains?

Uh, no. They’re cleaned all the time.

What they’re doing now is unprecedented in that they’re shutting the entire system down and cleaning and disinfecting every single car and station at the same time.

And now the homeless are on the buses.

Are aggressive, hostile street people unique to America? Modern times? Formerly they would've been forced to dig their own shallow graves.

More and more restaurants are opening their kitchens for takeout and delivery only. More Starbucks are doing the same. Even the frozen yogurt shops are doing business. I waited in line to purchase some Japanese specialties at Katagiri today.

Some boutiques and stores are “open” for online orders, or “personal shopping”. I walked past a hair salon and someone was in there, dusting things off.

I thought Bed Bath & Beyond would be open, but it’s not.

DeBlasio has let NYC slide into a social services come one come all and now it will be hard to turn off the fountain of freebies. People without jobs or education all flock to NYC for the free housing, food stamps, and medicaid. There is no one turned away and that is now going to be a bigger problem than ever before. I work in Social Services and the people who truly need help now wait longer and longer because the able bodied who want to have everything for free take up resources. It really is going to be a hard change to make, for the next mayor hopefully.

R332, you said it. Everyone’s on the dole. No offense to your clients.

[R352] how can this be possible?

^^Are you posting from the future?

Is it really bright? Do you have to wear shades?

Mind blown. I need a Harry-Meg thread to get grounding and they're all gone.

R315, you didn't complete the iconic statement:

"Don't drink the milk."

" Why?"

" It's spoiled."

I realized it after I hit post. I was actually very disappointed in myself and, ahem, disciplined myself for it. (How is not important right now.)

But I must’ve made you at least think of Spank Me, er, I mean Spanky and Our Gang.

Looks like I let slip how I disciplined myself.

Most people do not live in New York because of their jobs. Most people live in New York to see Patti in Company and the latest Kelli/Bart Sher LCT revival. These are the things we live for and treasure.

The Chinese Communist Party is evil and must be eliminated, with extreme prejudice.

Beijing must be isolated. The politburo must be arrested, tried, and executed for crimes against humanity.

Taipei, Taiwan must be recognized as the legitimate capital of China.

All imports and exports to and from China should be halted immediately. All foreign debt owed to China should be repudiated.

Until the communist party is destroyed, China should not be allowed to participate in global affairs on any level. They should be shunned until they admit that they unleashed this virus on the planet, and then lied about it for months while they stockpiled medical equipment.

Fuck China.

During a January 21 conversation - one week after the WHO assured the world there was 'no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission' - Xi reportedly asked Tedros not to reveal that the virus was in fact transmissible between humans, and to delay declaring that the coronavirus had become a pandemic - despite the virus qualifying as one by the WHO's own former guidelines.

And while the WHO announced on the 22nd that data collected through their own investigation "suggests that human-to-human transmission is taking place in Wuhan," which they said more analysis was required "to understand the full extent," they waited all the way until March 11 to declare the virus a pandemic.

R321

[quote]No nature, smells like piss, overly expensive

There is nature, Central Park is a beautiful oasis, and quite big too. No argument on everything else though, and with all the bums around I can totally believe it "smells like piss"

It’s hard to believe that you are in the middle of one of the largest metro areas in the country when you are standing in the middle of Central Park. Serene.

I usually spend a week there every October.

I couldn’t make it this year, and I cannot see myself visiting any time in the near future. On the upside, buying a condo in Midtown might actually be in my budget in 5 years!

R342, yes spending the day hiking around Central Park was the highlight of my visit to NYC

...until I got mugged.

...and found out the Rambles is closed.

yes, definitely FUCK CHINA!

yes, definitely FUCK CHINA!

R344/345 I went around 2003.... so I didnt get mugged, probably wouldnt be so safe now. The Rambles werent closed but there wasnt much going on as it was midday

Well, the diner which inspired the one in Seinfeld (Tom’s) reopened today for pick up/delivery after 6 weeks so maybe things will be OK.

Fewer people wearing masks today. But still the vast majority.

Coffee shops open and serving at the door is a nice small gesture of hope. Being able to see my local coffee barista is like seeing someone after a war.

"People without jobs or education all flock to NYC for the free housing, food stamps, and medicaid. "

HAhahahahahahahah. Oh really? All the hillbillies from the Smoky Mountains are just rushing to NYC for all the "freebies."? Or maybe it's the alkies from the rust belt?

SMH. You really need to work on this one. Because it's painfully obvious that you are just a fuckhead troll agitator.

Bye bye Broadway.

Whew! So glad I postponed buying those 2 day Cursed Child tickets

Well, at least my cheap Chinese take-out on 103rd/Amsterdam is finally reopening after 7 weeks-they’re building a plexiglass barrier at the counter. And the Manhattan Diner at 94th/Broadway has reopened for take out and delivery. Popeyes a few doors down remains closed though, pissing off many locals.

People actually stay in blue states for the programs and services. These programs are popular and people support them.

God willing this will cause rents to go down, allowing artists and weirdos to move back and make NYC great again.

Reposting link above

The collapse of the NY office is going to do untold damage to the city. Entire economic ecosystems will disappear. Chase alone brings 180,000 into the city every day. ALL of their employees are working from home and they’ve discovered they can function totally fine without millions of square feet of space. The loss of an American mid sized city coming into Manhattan every day is huge, and that’s the tip of the iceberg.

R357 That's the hope, anyway.

What would an artist let alone a weirdo do with a sky scraper R357? It would take billionaires to pull them down safely for you.

R281 Maybe you should develop some fucking compassion, asshole.

So R340, Trump knew what he was talking about?

We will only know that NYC has returned back to some kind of normalcy the minute someone spots a rat carrying a pizza slice up the subway stairs.

After the 1918 pandemic it took approx 5 years for things to get back to normal

Its not just the city r359. You are talking about a huge metro area that extends through half of New Jersey, along with LI, Westchester, parts of Connecticut. It's all based around proximity to NYC.

If proximity to New York is no longer necessary what happens to all those places?

[quote]After the 1918 pandemic it took approx 5 years for things to get back to normal

Not true at all.

The US didn't miss a beat.

"In the U.S., about 28% of the population of 105 million became infected, and 500,000 to 850,000 died"

Imagine: 500,000 to 850,000 dead in a country of only 105 million.

Atlantic City 1019:

I wonder how libraries will reopen, specifically the Performing Arts Library? In the summer I like spending a lot of time there. I guess they’ll install dividers. Will they even have to resort to charging for admission? I’d pay a few bucks to get to sit in there for 5 hours or so.

R364 - I have seen more than one weak looking rat wandering around Hells Kitchen slowly in broad daylight. With all the shuttered restaurants many of them are apparently starving.

Aww! poor thing🐀

A few weeks ago they said armies of starving rats are eating each other.

Also they said in New Orleans the rats would start attacking homeless and drunks on the sidewalk, if they get hungry enough.

Rats, pigeons and squirrels are all starving to death in NYC. Never saw so many pigeons in the middle of the street searching for food. I’m sure a fair amount of them get run over.

They shouldn’t get run over.

We have a deal!

Rat on the street in NYC.

I wish she’d get run over.

Great document of 1919 trouser snake. No briefs then, I'm thinking. Helloooo sailors!

R367 ^

Whenever was New York City "normal"???

Not into this either, MTA

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

In upstate New York, Rensselaer County's county executive Steve McLaughlin even appealed to Governor Andrew Cuomo to ban travel from New York City, but to no avail.

And The City reported that communities such as SoHo, Chelsea, the West Village, the Lower East Side and Fordham saw a drop in garbage tonnage by up to five percent.

However areas with more middle-class residents, such as Astoria in Queens, saw an increase in trash by around 12 percent

Overall, Descartes Labs found that New York City's total population decreased by 5.2 percent and Manhattan's by 18.6 percent.

The Times found these numbers to be consistent with two other papers it looked at, one from NYU and another from a company, Tealytics, that looks at cell phone tower data.

So what does this reveal about who is and isn't living the city?

The residents of these wealthy neighborhoods where more than 25 percent fled are overwhelmingly white, about 68 percent, according to the newspaper.

However, this is not representative of New York City's populations because less than half the city - 42.7 percent - is white, according to US census data.

More than three-quarters of these neighborhoods have residents with college degrees or higher and rents of more than $2,000 per month.

This means that neighborhoods mostly made up of blacks, Asians and Hispanics mostly went unchanged.

Residents who didn't flee are often in neighborhoods where most have a high school degree or less and pay about $1,500 per month in rent.

Most telling, however, was the median household income. According to The Times, more than 50 percent of the residents who fled earned more than $100,000 and almost 33% brought in more than $200,000.

'There is a way that these crises fall with a different weight on people based on social class,' Dr Kim Phillips-Fein, a history professor at New York University, told The Times.

'Even though there's a strong rhetoric of: "We're all in it together," that's not really the case.'

Most New Yorkers did not go far. The Times analysis found that, when they escaped, they mostly went to Nassau or Suffolk County in New York, Martha's Vineyard, Cape Cod, Rhode Island, northeastern Pennsylvania and southwestern Connecticut.

However, there were a few pockets across the US that became more populated with New Yorkers including southern Florida; Los Angeles, California; Phoenix, Arizona; and Chicago, Illinois.

I don't get the idea that people shouldn't be utilizing homes they own. I know the seasons are off and they're in these second-home locations when they're usually not. But, they own the homes - that entitles them to be there whenever they want.

I agree, r383.

It’s like telling the snowbirds, “Hell no, you’re not going to Florida. I don’t care we’ve got 72 inches of snow and bitter cold, you’ve gotta stay where you are.”

[quote]that entitles them to be there whenever they want.

Story of America: "I'm entitled to do whatever I want whenever and wherever I want, regardless of whether it endangers anyone else, because FREEDOM."

R383 - this issue early in the pandemic, when many of these people descended on the much more rural second home areas, was that the local hospitals could become overwhelmed -- at that point nobody had any idea of how quickly or widely the virus would spread, and these smaller towns were worried.

Actually, 385, I really don't think people are entitled to "do anything they want" because of "freedom." But, they can merely "live in their homes" because "ownership."

R387 - yes they own the house - but in a community that has essential services designed to deal with only a few months of peak population and 8 months of much sparser population - and not during a worldwide medical disaster to boot. It is about weighing your actions within a wider context.

Well those localities will have to adjust like everyone else R388. That's the way life works now....everything is changing and it sucks for everyone.

If I'm entitled to do whatever I want wherever I want, why wasn't I allowed to gobble cocks in the dark bushes at night in a public park?

R390 I dont own the park, I dont own the bushes, and I dont own the cocks

No one can tell New Yorkers what to do! We do whatever we please and the rest of the country can go fuck off.

R392, are you posting from MI, IL, FL, TX, or GA?

You can, r390.

(Just tell me where to meet you.)

Four friends have died, two friends were very sick and are now recovering, but the virus can be very debilitating. Weekday streets on the LES are empty.-ish, but there are lots of unmasked homeless. I don't feel safe yet

I live in NYC and am terrified of getting it, frankly. I am 50+, in reasonably good but not great health. The first-hand accounts of those who have experienced respiratory symptoms: I'm pretty sure I'd be a goner.

My office is formulating plans on reopening, date TBD. Staggered work schedules, all of us in masks., spaced work stations. I will quit if it comes to that.

R390 - agree to a degree - but look at the bigger picture that first week or two of lockdown -- nobody knew what the fuck was going to happen; we really still don't.

This is not the kind of thing you can just ramp up for successfully with zero preparation and lead time -- our chaotic federal response is the ultimate fatal object lesson in that. For all these people to suddenly flee to small, under-equipped places en masse my arguably be acceptable in each individual isolated case, yet still a bad, somewhat selfish and risky move when you look at it on a macro level.

Just got an email from our upper management :

those whose work can't easily be done remotely can go back to the office after summer. But even then, only a small %age will be allowed

those who can fully do their wfh should continue to do so

I think the second wave will wipe away most of the homeless, the ones still alive after the starving rats, pigeons and squirrels get at them.

If these cities give a hard time to those who go to their vacation homes, the part-timers can get a reduction on their property taxes. The locals have no problem taking New Yorkers’ cash.

[quote]I think the second wave will wipe away most of the homeless

A friend of mine works with the homeless population in my city. He says there have been lots of positive tests but relatively few illnesses and very few deaths. Maybe hard living toughens 'em up somehow. Or maybe their immune systems are already so compromised they don't experience a cytokine storm.

[QUOTE]A friend of mine works with the homeless population in my city. He says there have been lots of positive tests but relatively few illnesses and very few deaths.

What if sucking hobo cock turns out to be the vaccine?

Then I’m dying of CV-19.

[quote] How do you see people exhibiting ignorance and fear around COVID-19?

Here’s ignorance.

I'm pretty sure anyone who's been homeless for several years in NYC will have the immune system of a cockroache, ain't nothing gonna kill them!

I'm pretty sure anyone who's been homeless for several years in NYC will have the immune system of a cockroache, ain't nothing gonna kill them!

Bullshit, R401 and R406. The virus is tearing through homeless shelters.

But are they getting very sick?

R401 and R406 and R407 may all be right actually - the virus IS tearing through the homeless - but because very few of them are elderly, and the lifestyle quickly eliminates the weak, very few actually get really sick or die, they live but continue to be infectious. This means that the homeless are a reservoir of disease that then infects the rest of the population. This has already been the case with TB, hepatitis and other diseases in homeless populations

R407 are you homeless?

R410, no, there was a discussion of it on Brian Lehrer’s NPR radio program.

R405 Obviously NOT a native NYer -- it's COCKAROACH.

Precisely R412. You often see them scuttling behind cases of soder in the candy store when you go in to buy a loosie.

R5, republican business owner

Where, r413, at the bodega?

Here, R415.

Lots of people ignoring social distancing on this lovely day in NYC. A few months from now we’ll say the sky was so blue that day that thousands were infected.

R415 - a candy store wasn’t a bodega or deli or drugstore - it was more like a glorified newsstand - they sold all sorts of candy, baseball cards, cigarettes, cigars, magazines, newspapers & comic books, cold soda (but no hot coffee) animal crackers, and maybe Good Humor. They also had lots of cheap toys - spaldeens, sidewalk chalk, balsa gliders, jacks - stuff like that. You would go your way home from school or if your mom sent you to the corner to get her some Larks. They were also called cigar stores.

[quote] [R415] - a candy store wasn’t a bodega or deli or drugstore - it was more like a glorified newsstand - they sold all sorts of candy, baseball cards, cigarettes, cigars, magazines, newspapers & comic books, cold soda (but no hot coffee) animal crackers, and maybe Good Humor

In some of them you could buy stamps, an envelope & pieces of paper by the page. They might have a table or two in them. I remember buying Breyer’s ice cream - they scoped it out of the freezer into white take out boxes, like at the Chinese restaurant, but without any red lettering.

R418, you’re telling me?

R418, I worked in a place just like this in my teens! The last several posts have made me smile, starting with the “cockaroach.” That’s the NY I grew up in.

R9 - I just found out that my Mom got sick during that 1957 flu outbreak. And NYC still came back after that.

R421 - it was often a high school kid behind the counter - or else the crusty old owner who would yell “dis ain’t a liberry!” If you stared at the comic books too long. There really aren’t any shops like these left in NYC.

R422, 1957 is not 2020 and vice versa.

Beg pardon R420/415; I thought perhaps you was a more recent resident who didn’t know from before bodegas were bodegas

Does it have to be "normal" in the sense that it's exactly like was before Covid. If it gets back to being a fairly vibrant city and the cultural stuff can open again, that's good enough for me.

yesterday while jogging (with a mask), I saw so many drunk ass whores and assholes clogging the sidewalks outside bars, legally they can get take-out cocktails but they were just hanging outside the bars...

most have masks but they were just hanging around their necks, they were talking closely with their friends, not 6 feet apart.

watch for numbers to go up in manhattan in a few days...but the virus don't show symptoms in young people so they probably won't even get sick.

R425, fuhgeddaboutit.

Comic books, huh, R423?

Suuuuuuure.

R429 - surely you remember the plain brown wrapper that covered 70% of Playboy’s cover. They were also usually stored sideways or upside down on a very low shelf - not in the eye level racks. Since these were neighborhood shops that catered mostly to kids they didn’t carry the vast assortment of porn you could get at an actual midtown newsstand.

So true, R423! They used to send me over with a feather duster to “dust” the magazines and greeting cards when someone lingered too long.

'There really aren’t any shops like these left in NYC.'

There are plenty in the UK. We call them newsagents or corner shops. There's a few on every high street and in residential areas.

R432 In NYC mom & pop candy stores have been replaced by chain stores that sell many of the same things, but not at all in the same way — chain convenience & drug stores 7/11, Duane Reade and the like have replaced the quirky neighborhood places with conformity and many many more products. Candy stores were usually pretty small narrow.l places with very specific limited merchandise. Many newsstands are shuttering as well since papers & magazine sales are vanishing.

I’m good with people hanging outside bars drinking. After 2 months of lockdown, being outside on the street and patronizing bars and bartenders is good for everyone. I saw them outside my apartment and i was happy for them and glad to see it.

R434 = COVID-19

We have to support local businesses or they will Crumble and our economy will crater and collapse !!

Let people patronize businesses And have some joy back in their lives !! Jesus Christ you fucking cowards [R434]

At some point it will be enough, some will die, most will live.

When we’re back here in three weeks in lockdown because of a huge spike in infections, I’m sure you’ll be real happy that your stupid fucking neighbors had to go get a drink at their bar, you fucking morons.

No matter when we open, we will see a return of infection. Fact.

NYC. Not so fun without all the restaurants and bars.

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At some point the populace will say fuck it, take some precautions but will go back to life with or without permission. Some will die, most will live.

A LOT will die, R442. Or do you even care about that?

the figures are never going to change. It's probably less than 1% but more than the flu. So 1% of a billion is a lot but 1% of 100 men at a bareback orgy is not a lot. It's 1.

[quote] There's a few on every high street

What is a high street?

I had a fuckbuddy who was on my rotation for over 5 years. he made 1/6 my salary and was struggling. When his father got sick in another country, I bought him a plane ticket to go visit. 8 months later his father died so I bought him another plane ticket. I think most people who have some security are like this - that is, generous. At least in most cultures. Not all.

hahaha wrong thread wow

R446

That’s very kind.

R446 wrong thread but a lovely example of kindness and generosity that it would be good for others in your position to emulate

I just think those cunts who crowded the sidewalk outside of bars and having a party are just fucking stupid. If the infection rates go up in the city, it will delay the city from opening...bad for everyone!!!

NYC employment won’t reach pre-coronavirus levels until 2024: IBO

It will take New York City at least four years to recover from the coronavirus’s economic devastation with employment expected to return to pre-pandemic levels by 2024, according to a blunt new analysis by the city’s Independent Budget Office.

The IBO projects that the Big Apple will continue to shed jobs through 2021 — though the rate of losses is expected to slow dramatically — and that it will take until 2022 for a rebound to get underway.

“Strong gains in employment and income in the city are not expected until calendar year 2022,” the report says. “Although the job losses are concentrated in retail trade, leisure and hospitality, and eating and drinking establishments, virtually every industry in the city will lose jobs, with employment not expected to recover its pre-COVID-19 levels before 2024.”

The IBO projects that employers in the five boroughs will have shed 388,000 jobs between April and June and will ax another 58,000 between July and September — 446,000 in total.

New York’s tourism, retail and hospitality industries have been hit the hardest by the downturn and will struggle to recover as traveling remains difficult and improvements in video conference technology reduce demand.

The analysis from the city’s budget watchdog also projects the city’s budget deficit is at least $2 billion worse than forecast by Mayor Bill de Blasio’s budget.

“IBO now expects 2020 tax revenues to be $2.9 billion (4.6 percent) lower than we forecast in our February outlook and $6.6 billion (9.9 percent) lower in 2021, a combined shortfall of $9.5 billion over the two fiscal years; the de Blasio Administration estimates the shortfall will be $7.4 billion,” it noted, reaffirming its past projections, before warning the state’s own COVID-19 budget crisis means City Hall’s budget pain will likely worsen.

“IBO’s estimates of revenues and expenditures under the contours of the Mayor’s Executive Budget indicate that additional actions will be needed to achieve balance,” the IBO added.

For instance, de Blasio’s $89.3 billion budget proposal to the City Council in April would nix popular summer programs like summer youth employment and public pools. But, it spared the city’s workforce from potential furloughs or wage freezes.

Since then, de Blasio has repeatedly demurred when asked if the city’s looming cash crunch could force him to take those steps, saying that he’s banking on federal aid to avoid making the choice. Gov. Andrew Cuomo has already used his executive powers to order a wage freeze for many state employees.

“I don’t want to take away from working people. I want to protect people’s livelihoods,” Hizzoner said during his daily briefing on Monday. “I want to protect their income and if we get the help we all deserve from the federal government we’ll be able to do that.”

R451

CMBS will crater because of an explosion in vacant rental space.

I think most New Yorkers will sit tight until June 15, but then enough will be enough and people will want to have what’s left of their summer. There will be a small spike I’m sure, but we won’t go back on PAUSE, but rather move on and in one year this will start to be but a distant memory.

Sure R453.

Well, when the heat of NYC's stifling summer hits soon, people will be out and about and it will be a clash of mask wearers and the non mask wearers. When it's 95 degrees I don't see nearly as many people willing to wear masks.

I was in midtown crossing the street and it's not possible to stay 6 feet from other people, this was around 4 pm. There are a lot more people walking , working and more traffic, my observation from daily walks.

Restrictions are loosening and people are antsy. People are going to get mental relief and some economic relief by things "opening up" again. But, there WILL be more infections, deaths, probably a major second wave - which hopefully doesn't close everything down again. Hang in there NYCers. It's gotta be a horribly tough and frustrating situation.

R443 I never stated I did not care, I only stated what I think will happen. When you can discuss what was said without bringing your baggage to my comments let me know.

The lockdown is crumbling for the young. Which I totally understand. After 2+ months, they want to get out. The stats per Gothamist are looking very good I think another 2 weeks is plenty.

Restaurants and bars need to develop outdoor space - or improved ventilation. I would be ok with shutting down streets so they could be used by the bars and restaurants.

Popeyes finally re-opened on 94th/Broadway today so that’s good.

R459, I suspect the lockdown is crumbling as more and more people realize that we are only postponing the inevitable. It is unfortunate, but it is reality.

Want to establish contact tracing in NYC? Yeah fucking right. I passed over 250 people this morning walking to Starbucks on 69th St. And each of those passed another 200+. It is nonsensical.

Want to wait for a vaccine? I'm all for a vaccine, but the remote possibility that we will have one anytime soon is not encouraging. Are you willing to wait for something that may never materialize? Do you understand how long this would take to come to market?

Want to completely eliminate the virus? Good luck having no one make contact with anyone else in NYC for over 2 weeks and never let anyone from an affected area into the city. LOL to that.

Want to wait til there are better treatments for the ill? Yeah, like all of the great treatments for viral pneumonia, flu, and the common cold...

Look, how about some goddamn common sense. Let people slowly reenter society and not scold them for doing so, while keeping the high-risk people isolated til they can be vaccinated one day far off in the future.

Now go ahead and give me your talking points from both sides of the overly-politicized media telling me how I'm wrong or uncaring. But you know, deep down, that I'm correct.

Just because your family hates you and doesn’t want to see you, r461, doesn’t mean the rest of us don’t have family that we want to see without fear of potentially killing them.

Agree R461

R462, Wow, that's dramatic.

Because I understand basic epidemiology, I hate my family. Great.

So... you propose we do what exactly?

R461 I’m not gonna flame you at all that’s the best post yet. Finally some realism and some sense. I also think contact tracing especially in a place like NYC is a big fucking joke.

I like the idea of closing down some streets for some outdoor dining space. I think that’s what’s needed to lure customers back, anyway. We’ve got to start thinking out of the box a bit. Hopefully our idiot Mayor won’t get in the way of progress on this front.

MTA rolling out 230 virus-killing UV lamps on NYC subways and buses

The MTA is rolling out a new weapon in its battle to keep the city’s buses and trains clean during the COVID-19 pandemic — coronavirus-killing ultraviolet lamps.

The agency will roll out 230 far ultraviolet-C lamps next week on select trains, buses and agency facilities, MTA Chairman Pat Foye said Tuesday.

“These UV lights that we have on site today efficiently kill the virus that causes COVID-19,” Foye said before a demo at the Corona yard in Queens.

“We believe this is a big deal for the MTA — for our customers and employees, and the future of our system.”

The lamps will be used out of view of straphangers — in yards and depots and during overnight station closures, the MTA said.

Foye said the decision to advance the pilot comes after months of tests by the MTA and Dr. David Brenner, a professor of radiation biophysics and director of the Center for Radiological Research at Columbia University.

Manhattan’s popular Magnolia Bakery is also working with Columbia to test out the tech, known as “far-UVC” for short, its owners told The Post Monday.

While normal ultraviolet light is harmful to humans, the gentler far-UVC is not, according to Brenner.

Brenner and his team have tested the tech on lab rats for eight months and found no detrimental impact, he said earlier this week.

The cash-strapped agency is paying PURO Lighting $1 million for the lamps.

If the MTA decides to expand the program system-wide, PURO will have to bid against other companies for a long-term contract, Foye said.

He emphasized that the lamps are just one piece of a large virus-fighting strategy.

Earlier this month, the MTA instituted a nightly shutdown to allow for frequent cleaning. And Foye has suggested straphangers may even need to pre-book trips via a Ticketmaster-style service to keep crowds down in the future.

“I don’t want to mislead everybody into thinking this is a cure-all. There is significant work to be done,” Foye told reporters.

What good it this ultra violet light? As soon as one infected person gets on the train the car is contaminated again. So be it, they'll never keep the subway free of any viruses. As long as the homeless are kept off the trains, the total boarding are initially limited and everyone wears a mask I'll have no qualms about getting on the subway.

R466, what a complete and utter boondoggle.

Let’s just give the money to folks in poor neighborhoods instead. Give them some n95s and disinfectants instead of this nonsense.

Bravo, R461. Finally some common sense!

One long term effect we're going to see is the cratering of the commercial real estate market. Many companies are discovering that telecommuting actually is an effective means of conducting business. You're going to start to see companies that take up all the space in these giant office buildings downsizing their operations. More people working from home also means all those businesses that rely on office workers (every restaurant and bar in midtown) is going to fold up shop, leaving vacant storefronts all over. This is going to drastically reshape the city in many ways.

Not so fast R470. Commuting will come back, but not as big as it once was. Telecommuting is effective for some businesses, but not all. Many people would rather be in the office, even for a few days in the week. Retail commercial leasing was already in a decline and its going to get worse. Even with office workers returning, some small businesses will not come back. Too many storefronts were struggling before the virus. But commercial office leasing will remain the same as tenants sign long term leases. I do expect a ton of sublease offerings though. But those tenants will continue to pay rent on those leases.

Most larger commercial landlords are sitting on a ton of cash, so they can weather the storm. However, the real story is wondering if small & midsized residential landords can survive this.

We'll take all of the vacant storefronts.

R76

Every time a dollar is created by the USTreasury via the Federal Reserve, every dollar in existence loses a fraction of its value.

The year-over-year increase in money supply is approaching 28%. That means, ceteris paribus/all things being equal, that eventually all prices in the economy will rise by 28% in the future.

At the same time, you are increasing the federal deficit by gargantuan margins. The inability for many companies to repay debts because of disruptions from Covid, supply chain deficiencies, defaults, rental CMBS income, bankruptcy induced balance sheet write offs- the destruction will be generational. The disease is very dangerous, but economic lockdown is 100% deadly.

PS- The fucking federal reserve and treasury department are using legalistic bullshit to purchase exchange traded funds in order to prop up the stock market.

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Those on the fence are definitely not gonna come back now.

Good. I hope the fat and stupid tourists from the flyover states just stay home.

Agree completely OP. Even with the Q in place, social distancing on the street can be dicey and hard to navigate at times. Someone's walking toward you. Do you walk around them, or do they walk around you? OR you come out of aRite Aid, andn right then there's two people walking in, a cop the corner, a drug dealer walking way from the Linx booth, a homeless woman about to ask you for a dollar, and a mom with a toddler in a stroller not wearing a face mask. And btw right now, for every five people you see not wearing a face mask, you're gonna see 50. etc.

"Good. I hope the fat and stupid tourists from the flyover states just stay home."

Then,your tourist industry will collapse and you will be much worse off than you are now.

We need a conservative mayor. He’s a terrible man, but someone like Giuliani is needed right now to get us back in shape.

De Blasio is too afraid to look unwoke to be effective. Like it or not, there are some terrible people in the city and the police are necessary to maintain order. I was held up at gun point earlier this year and the police said there was no point in pressing charges. He said the guy’s lawyer would get the case dismissed since I had to physical injury. We need someone with a backbone.

The covid stuff will blow over. The crime can ruin us though.

"We need a conservative mayor. He’s a terrible man, but someone like Giuliani is needed right now to get us back in shape."

That's your suggested remedy? Someone who is meaner? To get us back in shape? Like what? Solve unemployment? Make the virus go bye-bye?

Oy. May the lord have mercy on that tiny retarded brain of yours.

[quote]We need a conservative mayor. He’s a terrible man, but someone like Giuliani is needed right now to get us back in shape.

Yes, time for a change.

As if on cue, R481 is there to echo the sentiments of R479.

Any man who thinks racism is a treasured past time like that sack of shit has no place here anymore. And for good reason. People love to look back with rose colored glasses, but forget things like how the police acted with such impunity under the Ghoul.

I think we need a Yang type. Someone who can attract tech but understands that fundamentally, the American worker will fall behind.

That, or someone in healthcare or criminal justice.

Yang would be a step in the right direction over De Blasio. I love Andre Yang and would vote for him for president if I had the chance. I don’t know if he would be tough enough though.

Having a gun pointed at your face may change your mind about having social workers replace the police.

Andre yang has a nice ring to it 😆

Andre Yang sounds like a Sino-Franco fusion cuisine establishment.

[quote]I love Andre Yang and would vote for him for president if I had the chance. I don’t know if he would be tough enough though.

I also like Yang but I agree about this.

R482 Sorry, but the city under DeBlasio is not a better place.

[QUOTE]Having a gun pointed at your face may change your mind about having social workers replace the police.[/QUOTE]

I HAVE had a gun pointed at my face. Twice. Neither time I was able to get the cop's badge id.

I was too busy dealing with A GUN IN MY FACE.

People don't need "Law and Order" when both only apply to a few. Yang may understand that more "crackdowns" just mean an angrier underclass and it will boil over. They need opportunities and more local policing. Whatever reason frothing scaredy cats like you need to vote for him, IDGAF about as long as you vote for him (if he were on the ballot, obviously).

But you can shove Ghouliani and "tougher" stances up your ignorant ass.

De Blasio is a fucking idiot. He needs to go and is not representative of the city's liberal wing. He's reviled across the board here.

DeBlasio is lame, but Giuliani is evil. And a Giuliani-type mayor is the last thing we need.

Unfortunately the Giuliani of 1994 eventually morphed into what he is today, but New Yorkers voted for the guy twice and his leadership from from '94 to 2001 was praised.

Bloomberg was the happy medium. I just want competency. A liberal agenda would be nice - but I just want someone to run the city pragmatically and intelligently. DeBlasio is inept and annoying - Giuliani was evil and angry. Bloomberg was imperfect - but the best we’ve had in a while.

By the end of his second term, Giuliani was reviled. His reputation was restored briefly by 9/11, for no real reason, and then tanked completely.

The fact that Giuliani was elected for a second term means that an awful lot of New Yorkers were happy with him.

Giuliani ended his second term with an approval rating over 70%. And the candidate he endorsed to follow won.

The next mayor will have a very tough job, NYC is in deep shit financially, tough times ahead

Three months of catastrophic sales tax revenue generation will cripple the budget for the city and the state. Look for massive cuts to every government sector. If you don’t have the tax dollars to pay for it, then you need to fire useless teachers, useless bureaucrats, useless cops, and all of the useless “woke” diversity charlatans.

[quote]BREAKING: Protestors in New York City have stolen NYPD radios for the third consecutive night and are currently playing music over the frequency

[quote]UPDATE: “Breaking the Law” by Judas Priest is now being played over the NYPD frequency

Will DiBlasio ever fucking resign? He was a disaster on Brian Lehrer’s radio call-in today.

Will DiBlasio ever fucking resign? He was a disaster on Brian Lehrer’s radio call-in today.

If New Yorkers had any backbone they would chase him out of the city with pitchforks and torches.

If you ever needed proof that socialists are fucking retarded, just look at the Deblasio family. They are nothing but charlatans and grifters.

R493, are you that cousin-wife of his?

thanks for all your ill-informed concern. there'll be money problems for the city and the MTA. that could be bad if trump is still in the white house next january. if biden's there it'll get taken care of. otherwise, we'll be fine.

I wonder when front of city buses will reopen and we’ll have to pay a fare again. I’ve saved a ton since March.

Guiliani was a dick, sure, when he was mayor, but was nevertheless effective. But, he hadn't gone off the deep end yet. Having a booming economy makes any politician's job easier, and he generally had that - but, still, he deserves his due credit.

Whatever happened to the Rudy who appeared in the non-fat yogurt episode of Seinfeld?

Giuliani and Bloomberg were miles better than Dumblasio. He is abysmal and hated on all sides.

R504 yes Bill is hated but so were the other two. NY has rotten mayors and a long line of them.

NYC's collapse is nearly complete. Nobody is going back to offices fulltime, commercial tenants are defaulting on their rent and the real estate market will soon be in free fall. No one is riding the subway or buses, nor will they in the numbers they had been if they can work from home, so public transit will implode without revenue from fares . And the restaurant scene is in shamble with no hope....can't wait to eat at my table in a curb side parking spot in December!

This year is a bust - everywhere. NYC will be back by the end of next year. Rich people, fashion, arts and tourists will always keep NYC on top. Watch😘

States will offer companies tax incentives to companies in exchange for them bringing back employees. Work from home is a problem for every city in the country.

Cuomo is being a cunt. Nothing is reopening

Cuomo rocks💕I would gladly take so-called cunt Cuomo over any other fucking governor in this country!

R508 - That might not be likely because the progressive wing of the Democrats are winning races in the NYS legislature and they trying to move the state party further left. The AOC faction wants to tax the hell out of anything with money so don't expect too many business friendly tax breaks.

R511, Then the AOCs of the party are going to need to explain to every small business why they have no customers. Cities are an ecosystem, without people living there or going to work places like dry cleaners, coffee shops, restaurants etc will fold. And this isn't just NYC.

I went to a friend's place for dinner the other night, they have a deck outside, so we could social distance. I live in lower Manhattan, my friend and her partner live in Brooklyn. Took a Citibike over the bridge to get there, and planned to take a ferry on the way back, but it got to be too late for the last one. My friend suggested taking the subway back, saying it was only three stops. So I did. After one stop an announcement came on saying, " This Train is no longer in service". Scrambled to get the next one, jumped off after the first Manhattan stop, walked a while, and found a Citibike kiosk right in the middle of the 'Defund the Police' encampment outside city hall, and took another bike home. I have been on subways/metros/trams in other US cities and in many countries in Europe. I know there are money issues with the subway system here, but I think there is a lot of corruption and ineptitude . From my experience over many years, New York City has the shittiest subway system in the world.

It always has, R513.

R513: There are ALWAYS issues with subways in Brooklyn, Harlem and Queens. Always. Esp. on the weekends. Note - subways run smoothly at all times in Manhattan. Esp on weekends. I wonder why...🤔

R515, you do realize that's bullshit. Trains in Manhattan run to the Bronx, Brooklyn, and Queens.

R516: Not bullshit. There are always “service interruptions” on the evenings and weekends. I know because I travel to Brooklyn a lot on weekends.

No, r517, you're the bullshitter. Trains in Manhattan cannot run smoothly at all times if there's a problem in the Bronx, Brooklyn or Queens since all lines (with the exception of the 2nd Ave line) run from or through Manhattan to the Bronx, Brooklyn and Queens. So if you're having a problem in Harlem then trains in Manhattan that run to / from Harlem will not run smoothly.

r518, Why do you want to argue about this? All I know is every fucking time I went to Brooklyn on the weekend, there were service issues in Brooklyn where riders had to take shuttle buses from Franklin to Metrotech Center for subway access to Manhattan. However, the subway lines ran smoothly in Manhattan. I started taking Uber to avoid the shitty subway issues in Brooklyn. My ex lives there and is always complaining about service interruptions/detours in Brooklyn. BTW - Done discussing this with you now because you just want to argue. Oy

I often have been fucking pissed with service issues here in Manhattan, especially on the fucking C train which I hate with every fiber of my being.

Loved in Brooklyn and now Manhattan. No question Manhattan is better. Ex, 1 train starts downtown and is therefore more consistent . West 4th street has tons of options. Stations are more likely to have an express and a local. I moved from Brooklyn because I was sick of the train just not showing up. It was the C train primarily.

^Lived

I’ve lived in Brooklyn my whole life and am about a 15 minute walk to one train line and a 20 minute walk (in the opposite direction) to another. Commuting from Brooklyn IS worse than Manhattan because the subways here are constantly being rerouted or even completely shut down on weekends and/or certain weekday hours. Not to mention that commuters in Manhattan have a lot more options of trains to take. My commute to midtown NEVER took less than an hour and 10 minutes.

Yes, it's called weekend service, less people use it so there are less trains and they fix tracks and shit so service is always affected on the weekends and late at night.

MTA is in deep shit. They have no more money. Count on service to be even more fucked up in near future.

R523 That's your fault for living in Brooklyn.

On 7/29/20 R525 fulfilled the title of this thread - he IS New York back to normal.

R524 I get that- my point is that the severity/frequency of service changes is worse in Brooklyn than it is elsewhere.

R525 I would never choose to live in Brooklyn, or at least the part of Brooklyn I’m in. There is literally no upside to living in my neighborhood. I’m stuck here caring for my sick parents.

I would imagine that museums will be hurting.

R523/R525 - Not all of Brooklyn is out in the middle of nowhere. I live Coney Island where I'm within 5 minutes of three train stations. And you can't get any further from Manhattan than my part of town.

Agree that service is generally more consistent in Manhattan. The real trick is going between Manhattan and Brooklyn. Weekends and late night? Good luck. Trains stoping at Canal or City Hall, the Q running local on the R line. The L train chaos. The possibilities for a long ass trip are endless.

R529, so you know well that Coney Island is a transportation hub. Distance from Manhattan is not always inversely related to length of commute, but your train ride itself is long despite not having a long walk to/wait for the train. I’m in Midwood between the F and Q lines. Those are my only two walking-distance options. I could theoretically also take the B or the N, but those would be half-hour walks. And where I am is by far not the worst in Brooklyn transportation-wise. Many areas (Canarsie, Mill Basin, etc) have even fewer options.

But I don’t really know why I feel the need to constantly defend my posts. My commute to midtown sucks. It sucks more than the commutes of the vast majority of people I know, especially those traveling within Manhattan. The only point I’m trying to make is to back up the other posters above me who were lamenting their Brooklyn commutes.

[quote] It was the C train primarily

I've heard people call the C the worst line in the whole system. You'd feel more positive with the options of Atlantic Terminal or Borough Hall. The F would be better

What is seen now is about as "normal" as city is going to get for some time.

Google announced earlier this week NYC employees will be working from home until summer of 2021 at soonest, and they aren't alone. Companies of all sorts still have offices closed, allowing major WFH, and or only bare minimum of employees coming in.

Of course those higher up on food chain now can (and are) joining the exodus to suburbs or wherever (again thanks to our friend WFH), either on a permanent or temporary basis.

For many there really isn't a reason to remain in city; nearly everything that matters is shut. This or to do anything one has to dress and prep as if going to perform surgery (masks, gloves, etc...), it is all too tedious.

Families with children are fleeing because they've had enough. BdeB and Cuomo still are bickering about when or how public schools should open with only about one month remaining.

Glad those little ankle biters are going away with their mommies and daddies.

The abandonment of all the tiny studios in the Village that cost $3,000 or less per month is in full swing. Which makes sense. It will be nice to be rid of all the parent-subsidized 20-something. SATC-obsessives. Maybe we can return those units to the 20-something gay kids from Ohio looking to flee their Deplorable hometowns.

I'm staying! Who said Cosmos?!???

West Village has caught a break for now, but rest assured in a few years things will be back to what they were before covid-19.

There is just too much money down there, and downtown (Manhattan below 23rd or even 34th street in some areas) is just too hot to go cold and remain that way for very long.

In recent survey all but one of the top ten zip codes areas for most expensive homes in Manhattan, NYC were downtown.

West Village, Greenwich Village, SoHo and Tribeca are at top of list.

Yesterday an MTA spokesman said in the third week of July in 2019, seven million rode buses and subways. Same week this year, two million. 40% of Transit Authority revenue is from fares.

rental prices are falling!

MTA city buses have been free since March or maybe April, but that is supposed to end sometime in August when MTA announced it will start charging again.

Subways are another matter; many with options are doing everything they can to avoid riding trains. They are renting or buying bikes (CitiBike usage has been off the hook since March), walking, using those child like scooters, jogging, taking Uber or Lyft, driving.... anything to avoid getting on a subway train.

Reports of homeless, lawlessness and other negative factors on subways aren't helping either.

In another DL thread we were talking about how RE brokers make their money.

Exhibit "A"; Cash Jordan; husband, father, self proclaimed "NYC Rental Expert".

Erik Eklund, Ryan Serhant or any other million dollar listing real estate person he may not be; but there are far more like Cash Jordan than the former.

As was stated in the RE broker thread, you make your money by going out and getting business; that entails both listings and clients.

[quote] Reports of homeless, lawlessness

Yeah, ok. You don't live here. I've seen a few videos of homeless people sleeping in subway cars during Covid. A homeless person or two being thrown off the subway rather roughly by the police but nothing that would concern someone who lives here and chooses or needs the subway.

Actually do live in city so be told.

Q, R, N, W line is infested with homeless, though MTA did a decent job of clearing them out when media reported how bad things were. However there are still plenty of them either on trains or sitting in stations camped out using free WiFi/internent/power connections and generally making themselves at home.

Because trains are cleaned and sanitized at end of each run many likely get off and or if LE is there force them to do so.

I forgot there was rumors of a homeless takeover. Seemed over-hyped by the post to me. Ah yes, exactly, you've linked the NY Post.

You must be the one who doesn't live in city, as the situation was covered by various local media not just NYP

This article is from April. Quoting from the article you just linked:

[quote] It is not clear if the number of homeless people on the trains has increased or whether it just appears that way because the homeless are now spread among fewer cars with the MTA reducing service.

My point was I don't think this would tip the scale against using the subway or deter anyone who needs to use the subway

Commuters were worried about distancing. If you still live here and still have a job and you still have to commute staring down August.. idk you're probably adjusted? Sorry, didn't mean to belabor it

Free buses started in the last week of March.

One-Third of New York’s Small Businesses May Be Gone Forever

Neither NYC nor NYS are saints in this either.

Albany has issued conflicting and frequently changing guidance as to what can and cannot open, and or what "open" means. Indoor dining has been allowed all over NYS except for city. So you can go out to LI or up to Westchester and eat indoors, but not Manhattan. Restaurants went out and purchased food, supplies, and reorganized interior spaces believing they would be allowed to start indoor dining on schedule. Then Cuomo pulled rug out from other them at last minute. Now he's busy shutting down bars and anyone else believed to be violating these ever changing rules.

In NYC BdeB and city council for that matter have been a total disaster from day one of this pandemic. Leaving aside response to health issues, they have allowed BLM animals to basically rob, loot, pillage, occupy and otherwise destroy large parts of Manhattan and other boroughs with impunity.

Streets are filthy with homeless encamped or spread out everywhere to point when piled on top of everything else people are just staying away.

Gyms, bars, indoor dining, etc.. all aren't being given any sort of definite date as to when they can reopen fully, so why bother prolonging the agony?

Left out city is shoving homeless into every hotel they can from Chelsea through mid-town on up to UWS. Formerly lovely blocks that had quiet hotels shared with residential now resemble worse parts of 8th avenue near Penn Station. This is just something else driving people out as local residents are simply saying "I'm out, and won't be back anytime soon....".

The collateral damage caused by exodus of such persons is great; all sorts of small businesses and or self-employed have lost and or are losing large parts of their customer base. Dog walkers/pet sitters, child minders, apartment cleaners, dry cleaners, laundries, day care centers, etc.. all sorts simply now don't see how they are going to make it going forward.

Our girl is down to just two households, one of them us, and we will be leaving in a few weeks.

R552

I don’t think some people want to believe you. Love the city, but no chance in hell I’m going back until some of these problems are fixed.

The bankruptcies alone will be catastrophic to some owners, which will cause their portfolio to tank, which will continue as viciously as a Datalounge face slapping until “market clearing” prices are discovered in the carnage.

“they have allowed BLM animals to basically rob, loot, pillage, occupy and otherwise destroy large parts of Manhattan and other boroughs with impunity”

You’re lying - I’ve been living in midtown the whole time - the BLM demonstrations were overwhelmingly peaceful and Constitutional. There were 2 - 3 nights of looting. “Pillage” and “destroy” are vast exaggerations. You’re the animal.

I'm an animal who knows "constitutional" isn't a proper noun.

For those hoping that a vaccine will solve all our problems, a cautionary note: vaccines exist for more than a dozen human viruses but only one, smallpox, has ever been eradicated from the planet, and that took 15 years of immense global coordination.

Who is the guy on this thread who's absorbing and regurgitating NYPost and right wing media fear-bait BS. It's so weird.. A photo of a homeless person and these people are all DEBLASIO IS SATAN THE SQUUEEGEE GUYS ARE BACK!!!

real estate twink thinks that if there's a lockdown this winter NO ONE will want to stay in NYC

New York is over.

O

V

E

R

over

The homeless situation is terrible.

People on UWS worked so hard to get that area cleaned up. A prodigious effort that required huge investments in time, energy and money over four decades. BdeB and his administration have in space of few years or less rolled UWS right back to the 1970's.

R561 means making sure Harlem stayed North of Columbia U.

For everyone who griped that what Mayor Giuliani did in the 90s with his re-zoning, re-thinking and cleaning up of NYC, that he made it too sterile, too manicured, kinda boring and "took all the fun out of it," now's your chance to experience Manhattan as if Mayor Rudy barely even happened!

Nah, R563, even if you weren't joking, you really can't. If NYC is getting slightly decayed and dirty, more crime, more homeless - harkening back to the often celebrated gritty 70s and 80s - none of the positives from that period is really around to make decay, filth, and crime worth it.

Interesting that the thread about the UWS and the homeless was deleted.

So was away for most of past 3 months and came back, the homeless and crime thing is WAY overhyped. It’s more visible because all of the commuters, corporate clones and tourists aren’t swarming subways, tourist areas and parks.

I was really concerned about the state of things from what I read. It’s 95% hype, maybe 5% real. It’s more obvious - and news sites can get better pictures of groups of homeless /addicts because the “normal” looking people all went away.

Oh yeah R565 I just notice that too about the UWS thread getting zapped. WTF. It was kinda interesting.

R563 i think it’s just cyclical. History just repeats itself over and over. It’ll be rough for 20-30 years and then someone will get tough on crime and clean it up again.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

NYC moms fleeing Upper West Side amid crime and chaos

One of the Escape from New Yorkers is Elizabeth Carr, one of the area’s most vocal leaders in combatting mounting crime in the well-heeled hood. She was an administrator of the Facebook group “NYC Moms for Safer Streets,” and the face of a public-safety movement that has attracted thousands to demand better policing and city services.

“In the best of times, NYC is a hard place to live,” said Carr. “Now you have all this other stuff. It’s a question for families. … to have to see a guy masturbating on the corner or explain to my kids while I’m buying diapers at Duane Reade why this guy wearing no shoes is collapsed on the floor and they’re doing CPR on him.”

She officially put down stakes Sunday in North Carolina with her finance husband and three kids under 7.

“We reached our New York expiration date,” the former nonprofit exec, who’d lived on the UWS since 2007, told The Post from her new home 600 miles away. “Things weren’t heading in the right direction. What we’re seeing now isn’t at all surprising.”

Crimes committed over the past several days would’ve been unheard of a year ago in the quiet neighborhood that’s home to Lincoln Center and restaurants by Daniel Boulud. A 40-year-old woman was randomly stabbed in the 72nd Street subway station at noon on Thursday; a 56-year-old man was sucker-punched while dining outdoors with his wife Wednesday night; photos were posted online of a man masturbating on the steps of the New York Historical Society; and onlookers witnessed an apparent overdose in the aisle of a Duane Reade across the street from the Lucerne Hotel.

The Lucerne, on 79th Street and Amsterdam, and Hotel Belleclaire, on 76th Street and Broadway, were recently converted into homeless shelters, with nearly 300 vagrants between them. Ten of the men are registered sex offenders, including convicted rapists, child molesters and child-porn possessors — all living a block away from a school playground.

The alarming downturn of her beloved neighborhood, Carr said, makes it hard to look on the bright side.

“Some say, ‘It’s a great opportunity for my kids to learn compassion,’” she said of progressive pals’ response to their new homeless neighbors. “I’m a pretty compassionate person, but … at least show some respect. [The Department of Homeless Services] is just putting 283 people into a neighborhood basically in the middle of the night?”

Carr said one friend couldn’t find a broker to take on her apartment listing on 72nd and Columbus, normally a desirable spot, because conditions were so bad.

“It’s this slow slide,” she said. “How can families stay here? Does the city want families to stay?”

Other lifelong residents are saying sayonara, too.

“There was no reason to leave before,” said born-and-bred Upper West Sider Bess Fern. “Now, I’m done. I can leave tomorrow and never look back. If I never came back to this block that would be fine.”

Fern, who is six-months pregnant and the mother of a toddler daughter, just put her apartment of a decade near the Lucerne up for sale.

“I have definitely seen more crime, drugs and harassment in one week than in my whole experience growing up here,” she said. “I don’t want to see a child get hurt or raped, before they realize maybe it was a mistake to put [hundreds of] drug addicts and sex offenders near schools in the most dense residential population in the city.”

Safety, as well as the state of schools, are common reasons given by nervous moms who are vamoosing. Jennifer, an UWS mother of two boys, ages 5 and 8, is concerned about the financial fate of PS 166, as more well-to-do families leave.

“The funding comes from family donations,” said Jennifer, 46, who declined to give her last name for privacy reasons. “If people move out of the city, there goes the funding for the school.” She plans to relocate to the Hamptons.

“I don’t feel safe going to the Fairway and Citarella anymore,” she said. “I have to walk by the sex offenders at the Belleclaire with my kids. Not knowing what these people are on and what it does to them scares me.”

“De Blasio seems to have some sort of vendetta against this demographic,” added Jennifer. “There’s no incentive to live here.”

Allison Eden, 50, a married UWS mother of two teens, just listed her gut-renovated West End Avenue apartment of 22 years. “I don’t want to leave,” she said, “But I don’t feel like I have a choice now. How do I let my children cross the street when homeless people are shooting up?

“As a parent, this isn’t the place I once knew. I feel like NYC is disappearing so fast and no one’s doing anything,” said the tile manufacturer, who drags her two boys to work with her so they’re not fending for themselves outside alone. “There’s nowhere for them to go. I don’t want to feel afraid, and I don’t want my children to be scared to go outside.”

Eden loves New York — and her “fabulous” four-bedroom co-op with a fireplace — but the city’s passive neglect of the neighborhood has forced her hand.

“People are leaving not because we want to,” said Eden. “This is my home. I have my whole life here. I feel like we’re being thrown out, and so quickly.”

Amid the chaos, however, some vigilante moms are proudly staying put.

“The focus of our group is to get parents to stay in NYC by advocating for public safety and quality of life,” said Veronica Vargas Lupo, an administrator of the “NYC Moms for Safer Streets” Facebook group. “We’re not giving up.”

R569 - R571 is the classic “nyc is horrible”. It’s fake. Part of the Trump misinformation campaign via Russia and operatives. It’s not that bad. Been here 30 years. It’s just more visible now. Pussies who freak out about the homeless need to leave

Watch Fox News - the main thing they have focused on is the Portland protestors. Nothing on Trump. The agenda for the election is clearly to overplay violence and the need for a strong anti crime leader. Fight the agenda.

Why the Upper East Side? Why is that area a magnet for homeless?

The UWS, R573, not the UES. And it’s because unlike the UES, the UWS has several mid-range hotels that were turned into homeless shelters. The UES has very few hotels other than super luxury ones that would never be touched.

These quotes -- I mean, they're comedy gold.

[quote]“I don’t feel safe going to the Fairway and Citarella anymore,” she said. “I have to walk by the sex offenders at the Belleclaire with my kids. Not knowing what these people are on and what it does to them scares me.”

Jennifer, an UWS mother of two boys, ages 5 and 8, is concerned about the financial fate of PS 166, as more well-to-do families leave. “The funding comes from family donations,” said Jennifer, 46, who declined to give her last name for privacy reasons. “If people move out of the city, there goes the funding for the school.” She plans to relocate to the Hamptons.[/quote]

Is this the Onion? I was rolling on the floor reading how the oh-so-progressive progressives who progressively marched for BLM and progressively agitated for progressives like Bill De Blasio, are now progressively running away from the bed they shit in. Those of us who've lived here all their lives now get to clean up their diarrhea, while they find other beds to shit in, then oh so progressively bail out when their progressive progressiveness progresses to the point that their latest home is uninhabitable too.

They LOVE their progressive politics and how it makes their progressive snatches tingle with righteousness. But actually LIVE with the results? Well....

[quote]She said she started planning to move before the COVID crisis and recent neighborhood developments, but officially put down stakes Sunday in North Carolina with her finance husband and three kids under 7.

“We reached our New York expiration date,” the former nonprofit exec, who’d lived on the UWS since 2007, told The Post from her new home 600 miles away. “Things weren’t heading in the right direction. What we’re seeing now isn’t at all surprising.”[/quote]

Take your nonprofit job, your finance husband, and your crotchfruit, and die in a fucking greasefire. You blew in from the burbs, fucked over my hometown with your Karening, and now waltz off while actual New Yorkers get to enjoy the mess you made.

NYC was best in the 1970s, when it was gritty, almost broke, and there were no tech bros or Karens around. The city was edgy, filled with art and music, and not expensive.

Then Reagan happened, and the 80s, and money, and republicans.

The best thing for NYC would be for all these UWS Moms and their equivalents on the UES to move to Atlanta or Des Moines and let the city return to its weird times.

Maybe housing prices will plunge and regular people will be able to live in Manhattan again. I gave up on the dream years ago, but am starting to have interest again. I'm ok with a bit of edgy urban adventure. It sounds like I would have liked NYC in the 70s-80s when it still had that edginess where you're always on the edge of danger. I'm not ancient but am probably getting a little too old for that kind of adventure though. Oh well.

From what I hear, landlords are not really budging. they are giving free 1 month rent and other freebies instead. That was what I heard a few weeks ago...it all depends on the location I suppose.

People drastically underestimate the sharpness of the "edge" to classic 70s and 80s NYC.

Yep, that's no surprise R578. The next year will be interesting. We're in uncharted territory so things that in the past seemed wildly unlikely (like housing prices rising during a pandemic, the stock market fully recovering from the March-April plunge, mortgage rates below 3%, etc) are happening. I don't know how to even guess what will happen next. It's all like something out of a strange fever induced dream where it makes sense while you're dreaming it, and the moment you wake up you think "what the fuck was THAT?"

Probably true R579, but some people are more delicate than others.

Rumors of NYC's housing market's demise have been greatly exaggerated. Things are already showing signs of life and that will only continue as covid-19 fades into distant memory. People were moaning and wailing that NYC was "over" and RE market would never bounce back after 9/11/01 attack and economic aftermath, but that proved to be incorrect. Those who fled city, especially Soho, Tribeca, Financial District, Chelsea and other areas found in a decade or so later when they wanted to return couldn't because nothing was affordable.

There will be some shifts, especially for households with children. Truth to tell many were considering leaving city anyway for suburbs, and now with interest rates nearly nil it is a great time to buy.

Facebook just signed a major lease for office space in "new" Penn Station (Farley post office), and there were some other major deals as well. On the other side of things BdeB is "privately" negotiating to buy empty buildings to house homeless while the getting is good.

What happens with NYC is largely going to depend upon two forces. OTOH you have money that will always seek to be here; meanwhile on the other you'll have people like BdeB and others who are going to do everything possible to keep the poor, minorities, illegals, and anyone else who isn't "rich" from being pushed out.

Thus key things to watch are who becomes POTUS in January 2021, political make-up of Congress, what happens in Albany and of course citywide elections in November 2021.

The prices are coming down only on at very high end...30 million townhouse is now 25 million etc

I’m hoping to get a better apartment in March when my lease is up. I’m paying $2200 for a shitty IBR in yorkville and I might be able to do better considering the fleeing fraus and their offspring.

Fingers crossed?

R584, good luck!

NY is a global city and the lack of an alternative global hub in the US will keep it going. LA is a global hub too but centered around completely different industries, so it can't replace NY. Things may dip for a while but it'll recover.

R584

Rents in Yorkville are going up ever since SAS (Second Avenue Subway) arrived, and don't see that needle moving down much or remaining so in future.

Maybe had the subway not arrived and much of Yorkville was still considered no man's land because of long walk to Lexington Avenue subway, but the new line has been a game changer for area.

There has already been plenty of new construction (those new buildings on Second at 80th and 81st), and more, much more is planned.

Remember back in late 1980's into early 1990's Yorkville was so bad it attracted trannie hookers in droves. They worked and lived out of apartments from Third to York. That is gone and even the masses of Bros and Bro-Hoes may not be around in large numbers for long either.

R565 it’s because every thread on this subject across major fora is being brigaded by trumptard trolls trying to make it seem like big blue cities are collapsing because of Democrats or such nonsense. Every single site I visit. Meanwhile my siblings are in Manhattan right now and reporting things are exactly as you say

R588 you don’t have to be a Trumptard to realize DeBlasio has fucked up the city. He has the distinction of being loathed by both parties.

r587 I’ve been looking at Zillow and you can already get nicer places than what I have for $2200. Plus my building has lowered rents by $50.

SAS isn’t that much of a draw if everyone is working from home....

I have hope.

I think you will find a better deal R590 - tons of people, including a few friend, have moved out and we will be in some kind of covid-limbo for the rest of the year, so at least for a 2 year lease landlords will start giving in a bit. I grew up here in the 70's /80's and while there definitely was an edge; often quite dangerous; I still never considered living anywhere but Manhattan -- I hope things do get cheaper and more interesting over the next decade, and while there's no guarantee that dream of most of my cohort seemed nearly impossible back in Feb.

This year is really some kind of tipping point -- we're either heading towards a new New Deal, or actual 1984. Interesting times indeed.

Thanks R591 - me too. And agreed. Crazy times. But I still love NYC.

I just renewed my lease for my non-stabilized apartment on 30th street. It was one year at a 100.00 increase, or two years at no increase. Call me crazy but I chose the two year.

I saw an ad for apts on social media thanks to this thread. The ad was for apts in a building in kips bay with 3 months free rent but must sign by Aug.

New York’s economic outlook ranked worst in the nation

A conservative think tank ranked New York’s economic outlook the worst in the nation as the state tries to recover from the coronavirus pandemic.

The Empire State placed dead last on the American Legislative Exchange Conference’s annual ranking for the seventh straight year largely thanks to its high taxes and hefty debts.

New York and other states like neighboring Vermont and New Jersey — which filled out the bottom three — could be left behind in the recovery from the COVID-19 crisis if they don’t enact “pro-growth” policies, the report’s authors contend.

“Sound tax policy and eliminating excessive government regulations continue to stand strong and true in improving states’ competitiveness, and we hope these states’ stories serve as a guide as we navigate the economic recovery following the COVID-19 pandemic,” co-author Arthur B. Laffer said in a statement.

Utah, meanwhile, had the best economic outlook for the 13th straight year, followed by Wyoming and Idaho.

The list released Wednesday judged states by 15 economic policy criteria — and New York landed among the 10 worst states for 11 of those categories including its top marginal corporate tax rate, which ALEC says is the nation’s highest at 17.26 percent.

ALEC also faulted the state’s top marginal personal income tax rate of 12.7 percent — the second-highest in the country — and said New York’s debt service accounts for 9.6 percent of its tax revenues, the nation’s third-worst rate.

New York fared better for its economic performance over the last decade, ranking 21st overall thanks to a 51.8 percent surge in its gross domestic product and a 10.9 percent jump in employment from 2008 to 2018, according to ALEC. But that was offset by the state losing 1.3 million people from 2009 to 2018, the report says.

The ranking came as the Empire State grapples with the fallout from the COVID-19 pandemic, which has killed more than 32,000 New Yorkers and temporarily shuttered businesses statewide this spring.

New York City officials slashed the municipal budget by billions of dollars amid the crisis, and retailers have called the Big Apple the country’s worst place to do business now that the city’s tourists and commuters have largely vanished.

The problem with being a Conservative think tank is you don't actually think, you just assemble facts to get you as close to Dickensian as possible. Then you cum, if you still can.

R596 speaks the truth.

No one knows. Place your bets. Money to be made.

NYC commercial real estate is gonna be so fucking cheap in 2021

I'll say something else certain people don't want to hear; unless or until something is done to staunch exodus of middle and above households from city, things are only going to get worse for service, retail, and some other sectors.

Laundries and dry cleaners are closing (Pessel French on UES is latest in our area), because they just aren't doing business. Or, not enough of it to warrant keeping retail space open. With so many households having moved temporarily or permanently out of city, places just don't have customers. Add to this the whole WFH thing means even that once reliable customer men's dress shirts are decreasing as well.