'We Have Lost It All': The Shock Felt by Millions of Unemployed Americans

Many described a feeling of sudden economic helplessness that did not match how they saw themselves. In the space of two weeks, Olivia Fernandes, 26, and her husband, Fabio, both fitness instructors in Miami, went from earning $77,000 a year to frantically trying to file for unemployment online.

Now everything is on hold as the couple, who married three years ago, scramble to figure out their newly unemployed world — from next month’s student loan payment to the long-planned vacation to Belo Horizonte, Brazil, where Olivia Fernandes would have met her in-laws for the first time.

“We watched it all collapse,” Olivia Fernandes said. “We looked at each other and said, ‘Oh, my God, we have lost it all.’”

Before the outbreak, they had used much of their savings to chip away at student loans. Their health insurance coverage runs out at the end of March. Rent is due April 1, and their landlord has made it clear that no extensions will be granted. By Olivia Fernandes’ calculations, they will have almost nothing left after April’s bills. Wearing gloves, they left their home to apply to Whole Foods and Target, but were then told to apply online.

Whether to opt for a high-risk job has turned into a common subject of conversation.

Scott Yates, 42, who was indefinitely furloughed from his job as a head bartender in one of the busiest and largest hotels in Charleston, West Virginia, said he and his wife had decided not to, even though it seemed that Walmart, Sam’s Club and Kroger were “hiring left and right.”

“It’s not worth a $13-an-hour job coming home and infecting my family — and then who else does that spiderweb to?” said Yates, who has two teenagers, and Friday got his last paycheck, which was about half of what he normally makes with tips.

The last days of work came suddenly, and had a dreamlike quality. Spring Drake, 30, an events manager at a large hotel in Charlotte, North Carolina, said cancellations swept her department like a wave beginning around March 9 — first a large snack industry conference, then one by an aviation association. By week’s end, its book of business was almost entirely gone and employees were told they would be working only four days a week. On March 17, four out of five event managers were furloughed. One stayed on to handle the remaining cancellations.

The normally bustling hotel was unrecognizable. She said the lights had been turned off in the main banquet hall to conserve energy.

“It was eerie almost,” said Drake, who lives in Indian Trail, North Carolina. “It was real silent. It was nothing but the bones of the hotel.”

When asked what she would compare it to, she could only think of a television show: “You ever seen ‘The Walking Dead’?”

Sometimes there was sweet with the bitter. Maggie Johnston, a waitress, was nervous about losing her job at Joe’s Inn, a popular neighborhood restaurant in Richmond, Virginia. She had turned 60 a few days before, and did not have a lot saved. On the last night the restaurant was open to diners, a customer came up and slipped her a $20 bill with a note attached: “This is for when times get tough.”

Someone started a GoFundMe for the employees. On Friday it stood at $17,000. She has received several checks in the mail, including one from a name she did not recognize. Her landlord has agreed to let her pay just half her rent until she starts work again.

“I’m humbled,” she said Thursday. “Even though I lost my job after 20 years, it could be so much worse.”

Severe economic collapse, something like war, can bring changes so sudden that there is no time to adapt. Melissa Dellapasta, 45, was setting up a meal for executives of the Cleveland Indians on March 12 when everyone seemed to just get up and leave. An announcement had come: Baseball was postponed indefinitely. She has not worked since.

“Maybe they’ll open in April,” said Dellapasta on Thursday, what would have been opening day for Major League Baseball. Her employer runs the concessions and caters the meals at the ballpark where the Indians play. “Nobody has any idea. But I have no paycheck.”

For now, as far as rent and food, she is OK because her boyfriend is still working. He has a job at an Amazon warehouse. But they are nervous about his safety.

“There are all these new people who got hired when the restaurants shut down,” she said. “He can work overtime but he says he’s scared. He doesn’t want to be in the warehouse with all those people and get it and bring it home and give it to me. Yes, we could use the money but you can’t risk it.”

Young parents said they now understood the extreme stress their parents experienced when they had been laid off, a mood they mistook as just another bout of grown-up grumpiness.

Nawaz Haraish, 26, said that when his mother lost her job in 2012 she was suddenly home all day and “super stressed” all the time.

He understands her now. Last week Haraish lost his job as a curbside assistance worker at Terminal 4 of John F. Kennedy Airport. He is deeply worried about providing for his daughters, ages 2 and 4, who he called “my two sweethearts.” He said his first destination after leaving the airport the day he was let go was the store, to buy diapers and wipes.

“I’m hoping the unemployment money will start coming in,” said Haraish, who lives in Richmond Hil in the New York borough of Queens. He said he sometimes watched YouTube videos as a distraction. One was about how to cope with anxiety. “Other than that I can’t tell you. I don’t really have a plan right now. I am super worried. But I’m trying not to let anxiety ruin me. I have my daughters. And they need a sane father.”

His mother, he said, never quite recovered.

“You can see it in her face,” he said. “She has a stressed-looking face, like she’s been through a lot.”

In a month or two, these stories are going to get much worse.

This is only the beginning.

$1200 is a fucking insult. While our POLYticians are way up in their ivory towers with top notch ederal health bennies Anyone thinking otherwise is a RePUG or a wealthy POS

We’re in for a life changing, dire situation for us all. Only the wealthiest will stay afloat.

I was just on IG, watching “influencers”, & I couldn’t handle it. I couldn’t even watch any of their schlock videos for more than a few seconds, & then it hit me: people are in some PROFOUND denial about what’s about to hit us. We are in some real trouble here, & people are posting some of the most ridiculous shit I’ve ever seen, in contrast to what we are actually experiencing.

Women with fake hair, tons of makeup on, and cheap clothing that are something out of a 70’s film featuring street walkers on Hollywood and Vine. Men prancing about in their very pricey units in Manhattan or Brooklyn, singing songs from Broadway musicals, Frauen and their babies, dressed in silly, matching outfits.

People who grew up on social media, have ZERO coping skills, because they interact with responses on social media, based on validation from external sources. That is not reality, and that paradigm only exists as long as we are able to afford to stay online.

The conversion time required to shift that paradigm to even stricter isolation and uphold any type of sustainable profitability, is not realistic for most in our economy. Living life online and being profitable at it, requires that a segment of our population be employed consistently. For all purposes and measures, “influencers are a type of entertainer, offering a very specific type of entertainment, for specific purposes, via specific avenues.

So basically, I’d people who watch this shit online haven’t money to buy whatever it is these “influencers” are selling, soon, they won’t even be able to afford to pay for the medium that allows them to watch, nor interact with influencers online.

8 weeks is pushing it, and this time line, regardless of being an achievable goal, will break the levees.

We are collectively gasping for air and clawing our way through.

We are going into a way of living that most of us here have not experienced. Within the next 8 weeks, we will either flatten this curve as much as possible, and/or die trying, and we will inevitably lose many, because it is impossible to exist with zero money coming in.

People will have to expose themselves to whatever risks they are in for, or they will not have food on their tables. That’s the bottom line, and that’s the truth.

The culling of the herd is here. No ands, ifs, or buts.

American society has been sick for LONG, LONG time. COVID-19 is only going to reveal and exacerbate that.

So R5, what do you think will happens when the money runs out for the millions of unemployed.

AND we are still in quarantine?

R6, true. However, this virus isn’t easily treated. Neither is mental illness, but one can struggle yet survive quite well with mental illness nipping at one’s heels. Not true for this virus.

The problem here is that we claim we know little about this, but here is one thing we DO know, right now: the only way to stop this within 8 weeks, is to self confine at home, no exceptions. Everything must shut down, or not.

What do you think is going to happen here? Let’s be realistic. And no, I’m not attempting to sound like DJT and take up for him, but he isn’t wrong when he suggests that we will be forced to choose between saving lives, and saving our economy.

R7, read The Grapes of Wrath for your answer.

"Grapes of Wrath" Cliff Notes, please.

Anyone?

I feel for these people, but I'm not willing to die for some rich asshole's stock portfolio.

R10, it seems to me that some rich asshole’s portfolio is going to be fine either way, and that people like this are the only ones who will pay any kind of price.

[quote]On Tuesday last week, he was going to work, helping passengers in the customs area of the Miami airport.

In this sentence, "helping passengers" should be replaced by "screaming at and terrorizing anyone who dares ask a question or do anything other than what he demands"

Sounds like it's time for me to consider adopting one of you hot, young, desperate things.

Yes, R23. Like we would want anyone who wants us when we’re desperate.

R11, they'll be fine in the long term, yes, but they're pretty damn pissed in the short term with the stock market doing a giant belly flop, hence Trump trying to end the shutdown ASAP.

Many service sector jobs are going to disappear after this.

So many businesses can't handle the stress of being closed for two or three months.

Where are all the workers going to go?

This shows how absolutely fragile this "great" economy apparently.

It's only been 1-2 weeks of this yet millions are already employed.

this was exactly my fear when the calls came in early march about shut downs,I knew we would be in for another 2008 meltdown, but worse. The man who was let go with 3000 in savings, is in a better position than most who have no fucking savings and dont have a parent or relative to live with through lean times.

yes it is fucking bad.

So how does Unemployment work these days? Do you have to constantly check-in and prove that you are actively searching for a job, interviewing, etc. to keep getting a check?

R19

The last time I was unemployed, I had to refile online every week where I told them that I was searching for a job and told them how many interviews I had, if any. It was mostly on the honor system with the understanding that the state could audit me, so I had to keep records of my job search just in case.

An acquaintance of mine was audited, kicked off unemployment, and barred from receiving it in the future because he had apparently lied about searching for a job.

Not to be pollyanna about it, this is DL after all, but none of this compares to what a complete breakdown of society would be like.

All you have to do is look at warzones to see what happens when society goes into freefall.

What do you think would happen if the number of people getting sick quintupled, not to mention the fear, panic, crime and rioting that would occur.

Listen. It is becoming increasingly clear that we are going to have to toughen up. I have no idea what this looks likes. I’ve never been here before, I’m this much, I know: only the mentally strongest of us will survive this shit, if we don’t succumb to this illness, physically.

It’s time to zero in and but some blinders on. Fucked, but true. And yes, I know this sounds corny as fuck and like something out of a movie, but fuck it. It is true.

Harden up for a while folks. Hold the fuck on tight, because we’re in for a bumpy ride.

Agreed, R22.

I think that most people are trying to figure out how to navigate this new reality.

In about two or three months, our lives could be drastically different from what we have always known.

We have to get the economy moving again, but with worker and customer protections in place. Just shutting business is not the answer.

[quote]Just shutting business is not the answer.

Of course, it's the answer - unless you've figured out some magical way to eat in a restaurant and NOT come into contact with other people. Frankly, take out, given that sick people could be handling your food (sure, the cooking *might* kill it) is dubious - what about the people handing the boxing and packaging.

It's not just about the workers, it's about people coming into contact with other people - you know, while they're out doing whatever it is you propose they do.

It's bad, but the problem with these types of situations is that infection rates are geometric. You HAVE to stop outbreaks before they reach the point where they accelerate out of control.

[quote]$1200 is a fucking insult.

It sure is. How about $1,200 each month?

R12 Yeah when I read that I didn’t really feel too sorry for him. Most people who work at airports (especially the security/TSA) are some of the biggest assholes I’ve ever met.

So does keeping with the social distancing til April 30th mean everything stays the same, i.e. if you're working from home stay there?

Yes R28.

R28 Yes.

I don't understand why no one has any savings. Not even one month's worth. The people who are mentioned above who have no savings, won't be able to pay their mortgage, but were planning an international vacation perplex me. I haven't been on vacation since 2002 because I can't afford to do that and maintain savings. So, I choose to save some money.

Extroverts and stupid people are the problem with America and, honestly, a stupid extrovert is basically the icon that represents America throughout the world.

That's the worst part about being self employed: the cost of health insurance. I was laid off last year. Instead of jumping into another position, I chose to take some time off and finish up my masters degree. (I had managed to save up some cash over the past decade, enough to live off for a year or so.) Through COBRA, I'm able to continue coverage through my previous employer's group plan, but I have to pay the full price, which is $700 a month. I checked the Healthcare Marketplace, and the cheapest plan was $500 a month. For this couple, I'm guessing they'll have to pay $1000 a month...on top of rent/mortgage plus utilities. A lot of temp jobs are cropping up around grocery delivery, but they don't include health insurance coverage. And god help anyone who drops their coverage to save money and then ends up in the hospital with this virus. They'll probably end up with a bill for $200,000.

If you have no income, you go on Medicaid. If you have minimal income, you go on Obamacare. Obamacare is based on what you project your income will be for the year. If you project zero for the rest of the year, you'll get a subsidy unless you made a ton of money in the first three months of this year. And, they don't check. What will happen if you underestimate your income for 2020 is that you will have to pay the subsidy back on your taxes next April. Go sign up. Coverage starts right away. You can usually even go to the insurance company's website and print out a temporary card.

I've been living on $1200 a month for a while now. Guess I'm in better shape than some of the better off people now because I'm used to this shit. I can only hope that all of this leads to greater sympathy and awareness of poverty in America in the future.

[quote]I don't understand why no one has any savings. Not even one month's worth.

There have been many times people on DL have warned others who don't handle their finances well that they need to save, search for a job with good security and move if necessary to reduce their housing and living costs. Hopefully, they have followed the advice and now can weather the storm.

R31, we're Americans, we scrape by from paycheck to paycheck and live in fear of medical debt wiping out what little we have. I've literally never been on a vacation the way most people think of it.

Blame the communists forcing you to stay inside or be fined (or arrested). Or the tinpot dictator governors shutting down the local restaurant in Alpena as if it were Detroit.

This whole thing is overblown, and these governors and mayors WILL draw it out, because as “public servants” being unemployed means nothing to them.

MAGA

Rumps presidency ending with a global plague, Can you imagine the rethugs right now if Hillary would have been president? All the blame and conspiracy going aganist her for this virus.

[quote] This shows how absolutely fragile CAPITALISM is.

There, I fixed it for you.

If Hillary were president and she had misread the early warnings, then this virus would be named "Benghazi Flu".

What happens if this never ends? The government can't possibly pay salaries forever as in years. Someone has eventually got to go back to work like real work, not work from home pencil pushing in front of a computer. Already there has to be folks driving trucks to get food to the stores not to mention medical staff who are possibly spreading it all around inadvertently. People will need to get colonoscopies have babies etc. I don't think some states are even in lockdown.

The deaths and suicides and domestic violence and crippling depression and anxiety will kill as many if not more people than the disease. The mainstream media does not make a point of this nearly enough — I guess because they all make millions of dollars per year and their jobs are more relevant now than ever.

But it’s absolutely devastating.

A- Hillary wouldn't have fired the pandemic advisors 2 years ago like asshole did

B- Hillary would have jumped on this much earlier and put things into place.

C- Hillary would not be a little bitch, whining about who isn't kissing her ass for help.

R43 that about sums it up!

I also think that’s why a lot of us a resentful of this lock down. If it were inevitable it would be bad enough but the attitude is why should we be paying such a heavy price for their fuck ups? Let them (finally) pull their weight.

If you think this is terrible, wait ten more years when we reach the end of natural resources for large scale exploitation. This is a paid vacation compared to what awaits us at the true collapse of capitalism. Can't say you didn't know about it, socialists have been warning about this for 100 years.

[quote] The deaths and suicides and domestic violence and crippling depression and anxiety will kill as many if not more people than the disease

Look no further than Chile where neoliberalism forced elders out of retirement and saw a surge in suicide for economic reasons. The great depression is also an example.

According to this Atlantic article, about 40k Americans killed themselves during the Depression.

[quote] The deaths and suicides and domestic violence and crippling depression and anxiety will kill as many if not more people than the disease

A new right-wing talking point from the party that never gave a shit about suicide or domestic violence until right now.

The GOP Is Exploiting Fears of Rising Suicides to Protect Wall Street Profits

R47 fuck that if you read all of my posts over the months and years you know exactly where I stand. And it’s a very real problem. To r46’s point I wrote a thesis on Economics and it’s effects on Mental Health, it’s spot on.

I don’t gaf if FOX is exploiting it or not, it’s a very real problem that’s about to implode on us and anyone who doesn’t take it seriously lives in a serious bubble. Like Bill Gates who thinks we can just shut down indefinitely well congrats he can afford that; us regular people cannot.

Trump says suicides will increase ‘by the thousands’ if economy stays closed — experts say he’s wrong

Suicides tend to diminish in times of crisis as society pulls together

Dems and their lickspittle press are unrelenting in their quest to sow fear and panic throughout the land.

Better to reign in hell than serve in heaven is their motto.

You're full of shit, R50.

R50 lol those turds won't be reigning anything aside from being worm food. They won't take their wealth or cars or houses or money with them when they die. Morons.

R49 that’s simply not true — and this crisis, rather than being the “great equalizer” has exposed the great differences and how the economically well off can withstand this infinitely better for so many reasons.

I read that Atlantic article and it was devasting. One point that wasn’t made though — And I think is not mentioned enough — the author muses”I wish he could have seen that maybe tomorrow would have been better.” But that’s the thing — most who commit Suicide or attempt or think about it are convinced that the upcoming days will only get worse and they don’t want to face them — the fear and dread of future days is SO GREAT that they would rather die than face that prospect.

I hope this "shock" felt by millions of unemployed Americans results in them demanding the end of hyper capitalism once and for all! The aftermath of the Depression did lead to the rise of unions. Their resurrection is long past due. The medical bills faced by millions might also lead to a demand to dismantle our for profit healthcare system. If the complacent corporate drones get kicked off the company tit and have to actually pay for their benefits, I will be laughing my ass off.

R54 I agree. I’m hoping at the very least we’ll start to go back to a Keynesian model that defined our post-war economy — and the last time that we actually had a healthy middle class.

[quote]A- Hillary wouldn't have fired the pandemic advisors 2 years ago like asshole did

It's not true that Trump ordered them to be fired. It was John Bolton who did it. It's absurd to claim that any action by any federal employee can be attributed to a president. No president knows what's going on every day in the vast federal government.

If your debt is consumer debt, talk to a bankruptcy lawyer STAT. The process takes about a month, but it may be the only way you can keep your head above water.

R31

[quote] I don't understand why no one has any savings. Not even one month's worth. The people who are mentioned above who have no savings, won't be able to pay their mortgage, but were planning an international vacation perplex me. I haven't been on vacation since 2002 because I can't afford to do that and maintain savings. So, I choose to save some money.

[quote]Extroverts and stupid people are the problem with America and, honestly, a stupid extrovert is basically the icon that represents America throughout the world.

You believe multi-generational cycles of poverty can be remedied by people brewing their own coffee at home. It's the type of thinking, or rather non-thinking, that undergirds conservative thought. It's nonsense.

Poverty itself has a cost. It costs more money to be poor than to be well off. The rich get richer by paying for nothing and by disguising their tax write-offs as philanthropy. This doesn't apply to you, Mr. no-vacations-for-two-decades, but that you even have money to put into savings after your bills speaks to the fact that you are financially privileged to an extent.

The cost of living has exponentially risen over the years. In the 1970s you could rent an apartment in NYC for the equivalent of 500 dollars or so today. You can't even rent a closet for that now. "Extroverts," or people that ...do things.. I guess.... aren't the problem with America, you are. Poor people don't do things, they work around the clock and come home and pass out. Still, buying a cup of Coffee from Starbucks from time to time is the imagined obstacle or decadence conservatives like you would have us believe is keeping them poor. Bullshit.

R56 The President is tasked with making these appointments to act on his behalf. It's literally his job. Minimizing John Bolton's role as National Security Advisor into just a 'federal employee' is dishonesty at its fullest. You will find contorted ways to blame Clinton and Obama for a consulate attack that they took every measure beyond consulting an astrologer to prevent-- but when it's Trump suddenly the actions taken by his appointees can't be attributed to him. He still has not fired the Neo-Nazi Stephen Miller. The Trump admin has deliberately spent the last 3 years gutting every agency tasked with keeping us safe and alive and it will be recorded as the most derelict presidency in history. I know that really chaps your ass.

[quote]If you have no income, you go on Medicaid. If you have minimal income, you go on Obamacare. Obamacare is based on what you project your income will be for the year. If you project zero for the rest of the year, you'll get a subsidy unless you made a ton of money in the first three months of this year.

R33. I have been on the Affordable Care Act (ACA)/Obamacare. If you have no income or claim zero saying you have no income, you will NOT get a subsidy via the ACA/Obamacare. You must earn at least $1,300-$1,400 per month to receive Obamacare at all. If you do not earn this amount per month or have no income, you qualify for only Medicaid--not Obamacare.

R20 My partner was laid off from his job working car sales, but mostly in the car service area. According to Marylands Unemployment website, the need to log your job searches has been 'furloughed' for 10 weeks, starting March 19th. Hopefully other states will follow the same. We haven't received the letter stating he is eligible (he will be) and whether or not you have to weekly log into to 'certify'. They do make you register into the states version of job searching website, but because he had applied for unemployment years ago (but never used it, as he found a job quickly, no milking the system for my honorable guy) it's screwed up and it won't let him newly register, nor reset the password because his SSA had been used before. We can't reach any help at the moment. Of course he's inept at this 'computer' stuff, and doesn't remember anything. I had him save the email asking for assistance, to show that he at least attempted. Really, 'we' attempted. I have to do all the 'computer' stuff.

My daughter's dental office also shut down. Initially for 2 weeks, now extended. She had applied, received notice she's eligible, but has not received any money. She hasn't even received the credit/debit card they use to disperse funds.

Last year, my partner had reached his SSA retirement age, and had been working and collecting SSA AND earning as much as he wants without penalty. He saved quit a bit in this timeframe, so we will not be severely impacted. He will collect unemployment, plus the extra that will kick in, and will continue to save. Unemployment, in this horrible time, will get extended most likely. If he finds a job that pays better, he will take it. Just not a job that will overwork/underpay. So far, I am still working, but in retail, concerned that my company can not sustain the lack of sales for much longer. Hopefully they wait to see how the stimulus package helps, and may able to retain us. If not, I am 61 and can start a pension I have at any time, and possibly early SSA at 62 if needed. We will get by. Healthcare is the most concerning. He only had Medicare Plan A, not B as his work insurance provided that. We just went on the Medicare site and signed him up for a Medicare Advantage plan, which is Kaiser HMO for 28 dollars per month, plus $145 payment for the Plan B contribution portion, deducted from his SSA. Now that he's not working, he will probably not have to pay any income tax, and will get all his money back. We didn't know what the impact was, so we opted to have taxes taken out of his unemployment, and he was already having it taken out of his SSA. He'll get that back with next year's filing, and we will adjust accordingly.

But for many, it's going to get beyond tough. 40% of Americans work paycheck to paycheck. I forget, but a much higher percentage makes $30k or less in these service jobs, and these jobs are laying off rapidly. It's going to get bad. I've read, unemployment at 12%. I bet it goes higher. Most of the recent low percentage unemployment announcements have been for these $30k type jobs, nothing like the golden career jobs of the past. 3 million unemployment requests in one month. A record since the early 80's. So much winning.

Trump, like everything else he has touched, has bankrupted the USA. For the people above saying it was John Bolten who got rid of the pandemic team: I believed there's a video around that had Trump knowingly talked about the cuts, and that they knew the best people, and could bring them back in a snap. Well, snap. It didn't happen. Too late, your dead.

R58, asshole, who said anything about a cup of coffee? The morons who don't have enough savings to pay their mortgage for one fucking month paid for an international vacation that probably cost enough to pay their mortgage for at least three to five months. You are a presumptuous piece of shit making excuses for the irresponsible. They had two incomes and zero savings. They are not suffering from multi-generational poverty. They are suffering from stupidity and irresponsibility. I am one of the poor people you are trying to defend, not them, so fuck them and you.

R60, I'm on Obamacare, too, that's why I listed Medicaid first and then said those with income should look at Obamacare. The majority of full-time workers probably made enough in the last few months to hit the poverty line for Obamacare subsidies if they project being without income for the rest of the year. Even if they didn't, they could just report their income as being above it because it's all based on self-reporting. If they get their job back, they simply cancel their Obamacare policy or pay back the subsidies next April in the 2020 taxes. Either way, going to the ACA website will tell them which one they qualify for.

[quote]I don't understand why no one has any savings. Not even one month's worth. The people who are mentioned above who have no savings, won't be able to pay their mortgage, but were planning an international vacation perplex me.

You're talking about two different things here, and I don't think you realize that.

The most likely explanation is that these people spend for a holiday using their cards, maybe some help from family members (who may be going along with them on the vacation), and then they spend a year paying down those cards instead of putting money into savings. The next year, they do it again.

The problem isn't that "the poor are bad with their money" but that the economy relies on people like them to use their cards for vacations and cars and what have you, while refusing to pay them a living wage. If everyone woke up tomorrow and said they were saving every penny, our economy would be irretrievably broken. But if employers woke up tomorrow and said they were increasing wages to what they should be, instead of enjoying profits made off of wages that have stagnated for decades, our economy would thrive.

There are people who are bad with money or who are irresponsible, but the larger problem is that we have a vast majority of workers in the country who simply could not afford what their parents could without going into debt.

No amount of "I haven't had a vacation in 200 years because I'm smarter and better than you" posts by anonymous grouches will change that fact.

[quote]The morons who don't have enough savings to pay their mortgage for one fucking month paid for an international vacation that probably cost enough to pay their mortgage for at least three to five months.

The only international vacation mentioned in the story is a couple who were going to Brazil to the wife's family that the other wife hadn't met yet. I'm sure they were getting financial help for that from the family themselves. Maybe they aren't able to get refunds, I know several people who had planned to go to professional conventions when the pandemic broke and they haven't all gotten refunds on tickets or hotel rooms, and may never.

I don't know why you keep acting like this article is about people who spent $10,000 on luxury getaways because that's not mentioned at all.

‘Murica!!

What's all this talk of capitalism? LOL what kind of capitalist society immediately fires up the printing presses and throws TRILLIONS of (Monopoly money) dollars at failing businesses and individuals who never saved for a rainy day?

[quote]No amount of "I haven't had a vacation in 200 years because I'm smarter and better than you" posts by anonymous grouches will change that fact.

It's hilarious that you attack the poor person who managed to save money by foregoing some luxuries instead of the irresponsible people who made $77,000 last year and had no fucking savings. Moron.

R64, you can't even get the couple from the article right, so, ya know. And, actually, one of the examples in the article is almost exactly that. A couple making a lot of money who didn't bother saving anything. The fact that's it's probably a $4000 vacation and not a $10,000 one is moot when the other side of the equation is $0.

You can really tell that this thread has some people on it who don't have any savings and are feeling ashamed of it to the point of defensiveness. Very telling.

Largest socialist moves in American history:

Social Security

Medicare

Bush Savings and Loan Bailouts

Trump/McConnell Corporate Bailouts

[quote]It sure is. How about $1,200 each month?

Canada just did their version a week ago, everyone got 8,000.

Nicely done, R58!

;o)

R69, you realize that would never have happened, if Justin Trudeau wasn't Prime Minister.

A Conservative PM would have said "fuck you" to all Canadians.

I keep seeing talk of them possibly forgiving student loans. If they pull that shit I'm gonna charge up all of my credit cards and walk away. Over my dead fucking body.

What good would that do R72? I will kill you credit score. And purposely defrauding a bank can bring you a real lawsuit.

The Atlantic has been a fear mongering unreadable piece of trash for weeks now.

R31 R67 r62 I couldn’t agree with you more.

Some unfortunate people will get to experience both the disease itself and economic destruction. There is a lot of talk about not making people pay for their CoVid treatment, but ventilators ain’t cheap and neither is all that hospital care.

[quote] Dems and their lickspittle press are unrelenting in their quest to sow fear and panic throughout the land.

Instead Trump tells us it's a Dem hoax, but makes sure any of his friends who want to get tested does.

Nearly 60% of Americans can't come up with an extra $500.

So that "Great Economy" Trump was babbling about....?

r74 Not just the atlantic,all of the press. there are counters on news broadcast ticking off infection numbers and death rates.

[quote]This shows how absolutely fragile CAPITALISM is.

[quote]There, I fixed it for you.

How very simpleminded.

It's not whether capitalism as a system is susceptible to shocks and interruptions. Rather it's the relative elasticity, resilience, and capacity to evolve of each of the various systems. They all have their pros and cons. All forms of government and economic systems would work better in some instances and more poorly in others.

I don't see you clamoring for an authoritarian, one party system like China which has been relatively effective in getting control of the disease (whether it also allowed it to start in the first place is a separate, albeit related, issue). The ability of an authoritarian government to lockdown and arrest spreading would be useful right now as idiots continue to congregate and get more people sick.

The first of the month is here and there will be bills that need to be paid and there is no money coming in for many, maybe not until May. This is going to get interesting, what will happen for the people who live paycheck to paycheck? Where is wages they promised and the unemployment better get here soon or people will go berserk.

and why is it each time there is a republican president there is an event of this sort?

[quote]Nearly 60% of Americans can't come up with an extra $500. So that "Great Economy" Trump was babbling about....?

Could it be because many of them over spend?

[quote] The first of the month is here and there will be bills that need to be paid and there is no money coming in for many, maybe not until May. This is going to get interesting, what will happen for the people who live paycheck to paycheck? Where is wages they promised and the unemployment better get here soon or people will go berserk.

Supposedly, the $1200 "stimulus" is coming soon.

Then there are also unemployment benefits included in the $2 trillion, which should help. They also upped the amount of unemployment people are eligible for, as well as the amount of time they are eligible for benefits.

Finally, I believe that many companies (airlines, restaurants, etc.) will be receiving money from the $2 trillion stimulus, to be able to pay their bills AND their employees, until the economy gets moving again.

This is my understanding, but I'm not 100% sure.

....

[quote]And god help anyone who drops their coverage to save money and then ends up in the hospital with this virus. They'll probably end up with a bill for $200,000.

I read a story about a woman who was in the hospital for just a few days for COVID-19 and she had no health insurance and her bill was for around $35,000.

[quote]What good would that do [R72]? I will kill you credit score. And purposely defrauding a bank can bring you a real lawsuit.

It's called sticking it to the man. And I don't care about my credit score. I don't buy things on credit so it's irrelevant to me.

Do you really believe the money is coming soon? OMG people need it now.

the money is a bandaid and it already spent. People spent that much stockpiling toilet paper and hand sanitizer in these last weeks of panic! "it's better than nothing"= it's a small enough amount to not make a difference in your life if you're truly broke or if you are fortunate enough that you don't need the money. This is a service economy, we produce nothing not even the toilet paper we hoarded. If we don't have money to purchase goods and services because we do not have jobs, where is the recovery in sight?

I think that’s the worst part - not knowing how long this will last.

[quote] the money is a bandaid and it already spent. People spent that much stockpiling toilet paper and hand sanitizer in these last weeks of panic!

Not to mention that stores are charging regular price or higher, for in-demand items.

All "sale prices" have been suspended at my local drugstore and grocery stores.

There's no such thing as a "sale" any more.

$11.99 for a pack of 4-roll toilet paper.

Yeah, that money is definitely fucking SPENT already. If I get it at all.

[quote] Look no further than Chile where neoliberalism forced elders out of retirement and saw a surge in suicide for economic reasons. The great depression is also an example.

BTW this Chile example is something that is happening right now, we're not talking about something of the distant past.

[quote] How very simpleminded.

Nothing simpleminded about math. An ideological system based on harvesting finite natural resources for profit and mass production for accumulation of wealth was bound to collapse. Please show me how on earth could a system of mass producing goods for fetish rather than necessity would work on the long run.

You can try all day with babbling philosophical rhetoric but at the end of the day it's all about a simple mathematical equation we always knew the answer to. You cant exploit finite resources and be surprised when it ends. It's about to and your ideological babble won't change that.

[quote] Nearly 60% of Americans can't come up with an extra $500. So that "Great Economy" Trump was babbling about....?

[quote] Could it be because many of them over spend?

More like most live paycheck to paycheck and all that American dream is just bullshit, at some point the jaded middle class will have to accept that.

R85, they should have given the T-rex an orange comb-over.

R1 I don’t feel sorry for the candy asses who cry about they lost their job and have kids to support, yet won’t apply at a grocery store because they “don’t want to risk bringing something home to their family.” Yet the healthcare staff at medical facilities are risking their lives everyday to save people and are in MUCH greater risk.

I don’t feel that sorry for assholes who chose to have kids then make excuses not to support them for stupid reasons.

[quote]most live paycheck to paycheck

That's the behavior that needs to change.

You cant change a behavior R96 until you admit there is a problem. And the problem is most wages have been stagnant for the last 30 years while the cost of living has more than quadrupled. CEOs and corporations have made record breaking profits yet none of it ever "trickled down" to the middle class.

The average cost of a house back in the 70's was about 4 times your annual salary. Today it more than 16 times that for the same house.

[quote] That's the behavior that needs to change.

Living paycheck to paycheck is not a behavior, is a necessity you dimwit. You're part of the problem if you think people live to pay bills because of some lack of control. They do it because that's what they can afford. I bet you're one of the sociopaths who would wear a Stop Being Poor shirt. You're a despicable kind. Die already.

[quote]the problem is most wages have been stagnant for the last 30 years while the cost of living has more than quadrupled. CEOs and corporations have made record breaking profits yet none of it ever "trickled down" to the middle class.

The amount of the CEO's compensation has no impact on the earnings of the low level workers, so cutting CEO pay could be done, but it would be for entertainment purposes only.

Thank you r97 and r98 for saying what I now don’t have to say.

[quote]All "sale prices" have been suspended at my local drugstore and grocery stores...There's no such thing as a "sale" any more.

I'm in Chicago and don't see this. Of course, I don't see a sale on toilet paper but CVS, for example, twice has given me a 40% off coupon to use on anything in the store. And CVS has toilet paper, but it's is now and has always been cheaper to buy it at the supermarket.

[quote][R64], you can't even get the couple from the article right, so, ya know.

They're lesbians, jackass. Just because you got confused when I referred to them both as wives doesn't mean I got it wrong.

I really hate that this place has turned into Heterolounge lately.

[quote]You can really tell that this thread has some people on it who don't have any savings and are feeling ashamed of it to the point of defensiveness. Very telling.

I have savings, though recognize your post was just an attempt to cater to the classist insecure Datalounge types. But the guy you were originally referring to wasn't wrong, no matter how snotty and trollish you get.

The assholes blaming vacations for being poor are blinded by privilege. I noticed that those types think hardship is not being able to save, or go on vacation -- that's not what's going on for America. Go talk to the bottom half and get a dose of reality Mr privilege. As if the lack of 6 months of savings is due to vacation 🙄 almost half in this country, WORKING mind you, do not make over 18k.

That's the precious economy everyone wants to save -- the economy of mostly shitty min wage service jobs and gigs, while the top 20% continue to be parasites.

Going on in** America

[quote]They're lesbians, jackass. Just because you got confused when I referred to them both as wives doesn't mean I got it wrong.

You are too stupid to be believed. Go read the article, again, genius. You are talking about a different couple.

It's not the actual poor who are planning vacations anywhere. That bottom fifty percent is not filled with the morons. It's people who are making over $75,000 a year and still have no savings but plan extravagant vacations who are the privileged assholes who then claim poverty thereby shitting on people in real poverty across this nation and world. They are the reason real poverty is ignored.