K-pop

A lighter, super catchy song.

It’s music for children.

I use it for cardio often. Spotify.

Japanese pop is better.

I enjoy the gay "skinship" (touching, etc.) the idols always engage in for fan service.

They look hot but I'm still waiting for J-pop to make a comeback :(

R1, those guys look waaay better than the fugs in BTS.

I love how K-pop groups promote on reality and variety shows, and have lots of YouTube and live streaming (V LIVE app) content. It's fun and immersive.

This was a good one. They do anal swabs in this first episode in the course of getting a food handling business license.

Captions in English are available.

The choreography is incredibly difficult.

Trash loves trash

R11, it's not trash. It's fun.

R4, any suggestions?

It's adorable and crazy catchy. Thanks op.

I don't think any of them will reach the level of Psy.

Psy is the real thing. KPop is manufactured boy band stuff. Or girl band. If you liked Menudo or Backstreet Boys it’s for you

So cute - The Boyz

Going through my Shazam list. I heard this in Vegas and it turns out it’s K-pop. Pretty catchy and cute. Amazing choreography.

Sorry meant to post this link. It’s damn cute and a nice escape.

Conveyor belt shit for kids with underdeveloped tastes.

I never understood criticizing ANY type of music.

If you don’t like it, fine, but does that mean what you like is automatically “better”? R20 says it’s conveyor belt shit for kids with underdeveloped tastes. So what does one who enjoys this music have to leave it for that wouldn’t be conveyor belt? And what makes it better than just for kids?

And how does one get to the place where his tastes are developed instead of underdeveloped? Do I have to check with R20 and ask him if I pass the test? It’s just fucking ridiculous.

R20, actually give it a listen if possible.

Also, it’s more than the music: it’s very immersive with multiplatform content and engagement (TV and YouTube reality shows, live-streams on VLIVE, variety shows, music shows (think American Bandstand), merchandising including albums with photobooks and lightsticks, fan forums, etc.). You really get to know thoroughly the material surface of their lives: where they live (their dorms), schedules, possessions, consumption habits including travel.

It’s can be a fun distraction.

There are six “American Bandstand”-type shows.

This article has an overview of the impressive multiplatform immersion, including interactive elements (as in the live-streams).

[quote] K-pop artists offer more content than albums and music videos. Online concerts, reality shows, livestreams and more have all been produced for fans to watch voraciously. This seemingly endless content is even more appealing in the time of COVID-19, so I have compiled a list of some K-pop activities you can try to forget about the outside world.

The group at OP last night on a competition show. Very impressive.

The most soulless music ever

I don't think I'm drawn to any music that appeals to people because it's "cute". K-pop and J-pop strike me as soulless products cynically aimed at the female teen market - hence, all the shipping and sexless gay-baiting.

Way too Hello Kitty for me.

This is arguably the most significant piece in the last decade. Allusions include those to Ursula Le Guin, the Sewol ferry disaster, Snowpiercer.

R26, do you have a degree in soul? Please tell us what the minimum level of soul is so that we can avoid soulless music.

Shouldn’t be difficult if you’re an expert in soul.

One of the huge K-Pop stars is a young guy named Si-wan Im, he was in a boyband called ZE:A Five. He's moved into acting and I just did a movie he's the star of. He's a lovely guy and I think the film might get released here and could get some notice. It's about the 1947 Boston Marathon and is a Rocky/Cinderella type story. What's not to like!?

[R30] Yeah I have a degree in soul. Music inspired, written, produced and sang by talented songwriters, artiste and singers instead of plastic soulless sugary pop drivel churned out by mega corporations sang by plastic soulless puppets who end up suiciding.

R32, I think, has a chip on his shoulder about certain things.

R18/R19 - Soobin!

R32, why do you include Motown artists in your list? It's no different from K-pop companies.

[R33] Gurl please, you must either be a tween girl who gets moist by watching these sexless twinks or a rice queen pedo with an Asian ladyboy fetish.

Gurl, I ain't got time to school you in good quality music. Use Pandora, Spotify etc to improve upon your shitty taste in music

R34 Gurl there is a difference. Motown was an African American record label which revolutionized and had a huge impact on popular music whilst Kpop is just garbage produced by three mega companies in South Korea.

They are just a plastic copy of African American contemporary music like Michael Jackson , Chris Brown, hiphop

So awful.

Bless your heart, OP.

At least it's not Cardi B.

[quote] Motown was an African American record label which revolutionized and had a huge impact on popular music

Someone doesn't know his/her music history! Yeah, don't believe sepia-toned biopics staring Denzel et al. Motown's huge impact was setting up a factory system, akin to Tin Pan Alley, but for African-American artists. The singers didn't write the music: in-house writers did (K-pop uses writers from all over, including those Swedes). The singers were scouted talent that the company plugged into its system to churn out groups and polished soloists, their images completely calculated and contrived.

Cf. Motown, Tin Pan Alley was revolutionary, in that it created an efficient system for synthesizing music. It was as revolutionary and artificial as Nutrasweet was for Coke. K-pop adds amazing visuals and choreography. Motown was just Pepsi with Splenda (another variety of pop music with a souped-up version of Tin Pan Alley's system plugged-in).

[quote] The black pioneers of rock-and-roll were not giving America unfettered race testimony or self-expression. They were giving America calculated entertainment in bright racial Technicolor. Rock-and-roll was show business. To secure a mass audience it had to appeal to young blacks across class lines: be funky but suave too; primal, then languid, then ironic. And it had to lure young whites across both class lines and the great racial divide: it had to be exotic enough to thrill them but familiar enough to make them feel at home.

[quote] No one managed this feat with more efficiency or more panache than Berry Gordy. He started Motown Records in Detroit in 1959, called it Hitsville and went on to generate an unbroken string of hit records, beginning in the early 1960's and extending into the early 70's, a decade when the youth culture was in flower.

[quote] Some black performers like Ike and Tina Turner and Etta James played rhythm-and-blues rock, with its aura of back roads and mean streets and rough sex. Others like Otis Redding, Wilson Pickett, Aretha Franklin and Curtis Mayfield played soul-rock, with its melodrama (I yearn, I burn, I cajole, I tease, I strut, I conquer, I beg, I weep, I curse) and its love of Latin-tinged beats and gospel phrasings. Motown groups like the Supremes, the Temptations and the Miracles drew on these styles. But they drew on the pop song conventions of Tin Pan Alley: streamlined emotions, stories told in crisp rhythms, clean patches of melody and neatly resolved rhymes and images.

[quote] ... Oh, please, Mr. Gordy, you want to say. You were the founder and ruler of Motown: you oversaw the invention of an American sound and style, you made millions of dollars doing it, you made and unmade careers as you saw fit. In your way you were as important as that other assembly-line autocrat from Detroit, Henry Ford. You have been revered, obeyed and imitated. Must you insist on being loved as well?

[quote] ... Ziegfeld proclaimed his follies a national institution dedicated to "glorifying the American girl." With equal canniness and equal grandiosity, Mr. Gordy called Motown "the sound of young America." He got it by standardizing the style of the American Negro Teen and colorizing the style of the American All-White Teen. And while it lasted, that sound was glorious fun.

[quote] They are just a plastic copy of African American contemporary music like Michael Jackson , Chris Brown, hiphop

And that's not plastic? Please. How naive.

R40 OK you can go back to sucking their egg roll dick rice queen

Ok wokester

BBC documentary. It was nice.

Gay club scandal - 4 stars.

K-popers are the most annoying stans you'll find. Kpop is irritating. Jpop is way more sophisticated even in terms of music.

I like the combination of the music, dancing, image concepts, and music videos. The dancing among the boys in particular is excellent. That said, I do love this one from the girl group Twice.

Does Bi Rain still perform?

Yet South Korea is still really homophobic.

There's nothing progressive in this music.

[quote] There's nothing progressive in this music.

WTF...?

[quote] OK, Boomer.

I'm neither a 12 year old nor a boomer, cunt

Um, OP, Im not a 12 yrs old girl.

Um, OP, Im not a 12 yrs old girl.

OP, I'm not a 12 year old girl

I made fun of this manufactured pop too, then I started watching in lockdown. I am a fucking fan now, the songs are catchy and there are some hot guy dancers. Watch EXO before you condemn it all.

Reading comprehension, R50-R53.

For R54

I'm not a Boomer, or a 12-year-old girl.

Reading comprehension is important. So many morons don’t know how to parse language. 😂

Pedo thread.

For the life of me, I will never understand teenage girls who have crushes on these Kpop bands who look like girls. There is nothing masculine about their appearance. It's like they are emasculated.

Soobin loves you.

seizure inducing

R60, part of it may be neoteny.

R60.

Kai will fuck the faces of all the haters

^^^ Mr. Kai

This is what the high-IQ countries are listening to.

R67 is third generation. This is 4th, the current emerging generation.

For the Kai fan.

These fan-made stage mixes are so cool. What program do they use?

I need to find more 20-something groups, the teen dancers are too pedoriffic. Looking at you, BTS.

Baekho from Nuest is my favorite Kpop guy

R72 🤩 hes HOT

Check our the Big Tiddie Committee. Baekho is a member.

Why are there always like 20 guys in each k-pop group?

Here’s a selection of male idols.

R75, it’s more like 5 to 10. It casts a wider net: the more members, the more likely a prospective fan will find one whom they really like.

That fan clip - that could not have been easy - unless each show they were on used the same camera angles for everything. the transitions are almost perfect.

R71, perhaps Monsta X.

Nothing can make them interesting.

I really like the survival shows. 100 girls/boys whittled down to create a new group. The opening numbers are great. The stage design is amazing.

This has all the opening numbers from Produce Korea, Japan, and China.

They're so beautifully androgynous.

You know they all have smooth hairless bodies with the exception of their wiry pubes and squeaky clean buttholes!

R82, pretty sure they're lasering a lot more down there now. I love that they're genetically incapable of having conventional BO (cf. eating too much picked stuff).

Vox: A beginner’s guide to K-pop

Why you should be listening — and watching and dancing — to the vast, immersive landscape of Korean pop music.

I guess most Americans don't give a fuck about Kpop and this thread proves it. What? 84 replies in 5 weeks

The latest big deal competition show, Road to Kingdom. Pretty spectacular.

[quote]I never understood criticizing ANY type of music.

It's not music. The auditory equivalent of a pop tart.

R87, that’s all pop music. There’s more to it than the audio, actually. The dancing is often amazing, as are the visual aspects, including the videos and performances.

MTE, r2.

K-Pop and a lot of South Korean entertainment in general these days, is very Ottoman.

Can you be any more opaque, R89.

[quote] Also, it’s more than the music: it’s very immersive with multiplatform content and engagement (TV and YouTube reality shows, live-streams on VLIVE, variety shows, music shows (think American Bandstand), merchandising including albums with photobooks and lightsticks, fan forums, etc.). You really get to know thoroughly the material surface of their lives: where they live (their dorms), schedules, possessions, consumption habits including travel.

Reminds of *NSYNC fandom, only 100 times more creepy & intrusive. No wonder these poor little dancing dolls all top themselves or end up lobotomised.

OP, you’re basic and that’s ok. However many of us here are typically SUBculturally gay, meaning we demand a certain degree of gritty emotion, messy bloody theatrics, high-camp and conceptual costumery in our pop - more than drone-like immaculate trendy Asian chart-toppers can provide.

Visual-Kei was and is an Asian musical style designed by and for the outsiders in LGB. Musically, a loose equivalent to Western Goth-rock stirred with elements of gay-club Industrial, Neoclassical & operatic Metal; visually, Baroque in a glam-punk style.

If one is unmoved by Malice Mizer’a ‘Le Ciel’, one must question whether one is in fact actually gay.

R46 I SECOND TWIIIIIIICE!!!!!!!!!!!!

New Blackpink album in June. Gaga has a song with them I think.

Cuties. The good song starts at 1:00.

Cuties?? They look under 12. Is this a pedo thread?

R96, East Asians age differently: R63, R64. They’re adults in their early 20s.

That said, calling even those underage “cute” is by default innocent. Calling someone underage “hot” isn’t.

Dyed hair, plastic surgery, makeup and robo-pop. Fascinating (and not in a good way).

I like the black masks they always wear. I’m ordering some on eBay from Korea.

Gave it a chance for a couple of years in College, but then Jonghyun & Sulli both killed themselves in quick succession and the whole thing felt distasteful. I don’t feel I’m missing much as I’ve always been more comfortable listening to genres of music composed and performed by adults for adults, and with a view to longevity - in particular metal & folk - over pop.

It is still enjoyable to watch Victoria Song dance, I will admit. She’s Chinese and in her 30s, though, so is she cancelled?

OP is either a pedo or a tween. Most of the posts on this thread are from it. "Thanks OP" is from OP.

Kpop is a crappy music for little girls or pervs.

I was suppose to go to the BTS show on Wednesday but Corona had to fuck that up.

What's not to like? A bunch of good looking kids with catchy tunes, great style and perfect skin.

Also their music videos are far better than the lame shit american musicians come up with.

[quote] better than the lame shit american musicians come up with.

R103...does know that much of the music, production and presentation for these groups is handled by American & European writers/producers/designers, right?

If you were wondering what happened to all those people working in the resurgent years of commercial Western pop & hiphop in the 2000s (all that rubbish you saw constantly on MTV-TRL), well, now you know. In Art you often must go where the commissions are, regrettably.

[quote] better than the lame shit american musicians come up with.

R103...does know that much of the music, production and presentation for these groups is handled by American & European writers/producers/designers, right?

If you were wondering what happened to all those people working in the resurgent years of commercial Western pop & hiphop in the 2000s (all that rubbish you saw constantly on MTV-TRL), well, now you know. In Art you often must go where the commissions are, regrettably.

Road to Kingdom’s been pretty fun. New episode on Thursday.

The South Korean music industry might commission American/European directors/producers/photographers to make their music videos. But I am pretty sure the South Koreans have a saying as to how the music videos should look. American musicians tend to make videos where you see half naked women twerk to some lame shit.

R100 Wing's version of Dancing Queen is way better

Twinky pixie music.

NO THANKS.

All K-Pop boy bands sound like Usher reading an Asian restaurant menu to synthesized beats.

I'm kinda getting into BLACKPINK. I can hear influences of Katy Perry, Ariana Grande, Miley Cyrus, with the rap parts sounding a bit like Cardi B, Iggy Azalea and Niki Minaj.

Lady Gaga's Chromatica has a track with Blackpink. It would be interesting to hear.

Queens of Kpop Girls Generation bitch!

Where are they manufactured?

I like Asian men, heck I married one, but these look like little boys trying to be little girls. Music and dancing are really good but to childlike for my taste.

They're homo-social (friends only with the same sex), and affection is OK. I like that.

I think of KPop like musicals. There’s a lot of junk but the best ones shine. Everything’s scripted and melodramatic, with great dancing and catchy songs. You just have to find the right group for you.

Subtitles. So sweet.

Just one more.

Burn the manufacturer.

Bunch of homophobes. J-Pop is better.

I’m not sure if the Blackpink-Gaga song is good.

Very nice.

I was unimpressed until R72. I could be persuaded to check this one out.

Nakey

NYC DLers, is this actually NYC?

My only interest involves the fact that their fanbase did something good when asshole white trash tried to make "#Whitelivesmatter" trend. Those K-pop fanatics took that bitch over and flooded Twitter; it was beautiful.

Any K -Pop fan knows BTS as the kings of the genre. One member named Suga just released a mixtape, under his alter ego Agust-D, that's trending on Youtube with over 70 million views in less than a week. It's a badass rap/hip hop fusion and Suga has swagger and flow. If he an CL teamed up, my head would explode.

The stans are a formidable force.

This year’s top girl group song (so far).

Japanese Millennial twinks really ran so Korean Zoomer twinks could fly.

J-Pop was more melodic, casual and human than most K-Pop. The difference is similar to that between British & American pop.

I'm thinking R48 is right.

Any openly gay ones, if not, thank u next.

Why does Suga look like a teenage girl in R129's pic?

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

My favorite KPOP video at the moment. That Jinyoung is a cutie.

Does anyone here know to watch that BTS Bang Bang Con concert? I guess it went live last night, but will it be available to watch anywhere now?

They have some psychotic fans. I wish them nothing but the worst.

I agree with the BTS fandom. Not worth getting into the group.

I love the sensual idol who did that homoerotic theatrical dance concert about the dramatic fifteen-minute song about a lord samurai beauty dying to defend his liege Lord.

Oh no, wait, that was actually Kame-chan. Twelve years ago.

R136, here’s a cover of a GOT7 song. It’s cute. They’re friends from performance school, all pretty famous for the “ ‘00 line”.

Hyunjae is my bias right now. So cute.

More Hyunjae.

Weren't these guys universally fug-looking before going through surgery?

From Road to Kingdom last week. So good.

We have nothing like this. Amazing.

Soobin

Brilliant

[quote]You really get to know thoroughly the material surface of their lives: where they live (their dorms), schedules, possessions, consumption habits including travel.

Why would I want to know this? Seek help, please.

R149 is ignorant and limited.

They're a force now.

BTS just dropped their new MV for 'Stay Gold'. These guys are super cute. I'd like to know more about their skincare routine.

Some pretty boys. Alas, they go for the androgynous look which does not interest me. Music is ok but all seem the same to me regardless of group or boy "singing".

With the kind of heavy dance routine, none of the boys or girls seem out of breath when singing which tells me most if not all are lipsyncing.

.......

R153, everyone knows that they're usually lipsyncing. It's a thing. The dances are too intense for them to sing as well.

New from TXT. Soobin cries. Enormous budget. #2 trending.

The survival show I-LAND from Big Hit and CJ E&M just started. Crazy building.

Look who's butthurt lol.

"Spring Day" brings so much comfort and hope. I listen when I'm sad, like so many others.

INFP Jungkook singing "Euphoria" at Wembley.

THIS is how the West covers K-pop.

R132 *dreamy sigh* I could watch Tak-kun dance all day. I miss 2010.

Wait, what were we talking about?

^^And not forgetting Ruito-kun. He has more rhythm and flair at 30 then any of these K-pop kids...

Japanese music destroys Korean music. Japanese people are more liberal so they tend to be more expressive / creative. Koreans are super Christian so their music and other productions like for television or film tend to be kind of... trivial and soulless.

R164 Precisely!

Plus we should hold Japanese performers in higher regard and push their creativity more than that of Koreans, if only for the fact that in Japan today they at least basically accept homosexuality (particularly Male).

Recent surveys suggest that now as many as 70% of Japanese will openly state they no longer take issue with gay people (as compared with just under half c.1990-2000), whereas only around 30% of South Koreans tolerate it (impossible to get a read on the North, for obvious reasons).

Why support the commercial exports of a country that wants you and people like you arrested, tortured and excommunicated?

I like how cute they are. The boy groups. Soobin is adorable.

[quote] Why support the commercial exports of a country that wants you and people like you arrested, tortured and excommunicated?

Dear god, it’s not like that at all lol.

SK is as tolerant of gay guys and lesbians as, say, people in Northern Ireland or maybe rural Wisconsin or Minnesota: they’re not thought of much, if at all, and if they are, it’s more ambivalence or probably curiosity. No one in the mainstream wants them imprisoned or harmed. Jesus.

In SK, gay people aren’t considered special in the positive way they are in some places like wealthier parts of LA or NYC, but it’s not anything like Russia or India either.

You’re exaggerating the acceptance of gay men in Japan. If they’re so accepting, why doesn’t same-sex marriage have significant popular support?

It’s the same in South Korea and Japan: people are trying to make money and live their lives well. They don’t care much (or at all really) about matters related to gay people, the persecuted Muslims championed by progressives in the West, or trans people. They’re as ambivalent about them as we generally are about ... maybe vegans.

In any case, it’s irrelevant when it comes to pop music: not everything has to advance social change.

*possibly curiosity

From 3 hours ago from Japan. Soobin!!!!!

Must be like crack for rice queens.

Soobin-mania

R146, that music is so obviously American-influenced. It sounds like our pop-RnB, more or less.

R172, I meant we don’t have pop groups that put on that sort of production.

You're right but I'm not necessarily complaining.

Many of these K-Pop bands suffer monstrous abuse at the hands of the bigwig record executives. The recent suicides of two or more of these teen idols didn’t happen in a vacuum.

R175, the more immediate cause of those suicides was bullying on social media.

I think neoteny explains some of the appeal: the idols are so cute and soft-looking. I know most of DL isn't into that, though. They find Adam Levine hot.

R177 is that before Adam Levine decided to fuck himself over or before that?

R178, what happened to Adam Levine?

This group, GOT7 gets me hot and bothered. Perfect pop song that goes well with the incredible dance moves and smoldering looks.

Talk about culture vultures 😒

Thou doth protest too much . . . . . . .

👦 You're a twelve year old boy.

Does anybody want to talk about Blackpink or any of these joyless k-pop groups?

Let's be real; this music is similar to Western pop or rNb...except, totally inferior. They have to put all of their might into dramatic productions because the music itself is derivative trash.

I love South Korea but their pop music is objectively worse than that of other countries.

I’m getting into Exo. I can’t believe this dance. The pelvic thrusts.

Netflix has a new Blackpink documentary. It’s getting good reviews.

Come at me, f(x) were/are the only truly innovative and musical SK 'girlband'. Then they died (well, one of them - RIP, Choi Jin-Ri/Sulli).

Confession: I have a physical copy of their 2014 album RED LIGHT, it's that excellent (and the follow up 4 WALLS in 2015 wasn't half bad, either). They have so many killer songs to mention; their infectious debut singles 'LA chA TA' & 'Chu~' changed the way I look at the sound and choreo of ensemble dance-pop, and the force of 'NU ABO' & 'Pinocchio (Danger)' a couple of years later hammered the point home. 'RED LIGHT' is completely out of this world, like aliens made an untouchable hit, and the same goes for 'MILK' and 'Spit It Out' from the same record. On a less serious note, I bump 'Hot Summer' on my playlists every July, I adore the sweet 'Pretty Girl' and 'Airplane' from 2013's PINK TAPE, and the fun and melodic banger 'Rum Pum Pum Pum' is always on in my place around Christmastime for good festive vibes.

Their video concepts ruled, too - so much more weird, energetic, dark, and creative than most of the other girlbands with their knock-off Pussycat Dolls/Girls Aloud/Little Mix schlock. The game changed in terms of visuals when f(x) did their thing, and it notices that groups to follow copied them slavishly. My entire life I've been a fan of many pop acts and studied a lot of dance moves, and I've never seen anything like the routines and moves that f(x) put together, especially not in the settings they chose.

If that weren't enough, the coolest thing about them is the creative control they took over their later material, and the risks they took with their sound and look against all advice that worked flawlessly. No-one thought RED LIGHT or 4 WALLS would work, and the group had to fight to get producers to cut it the way they wanted. In the end they split rather than follow SM's tyrannical and limiting directives. How many other pop behemoths out of SK have told the biggest entertainment company in the nation to fuck off?

Also I found out recently that f(x) recorded many songs from their early albums in Japanese as well as Korean, and that Luna was the singing voice for Gabriella for the Korean sub of HIGH SCHOOL MUSICAL movies (she has pipes). Came to my attention also that Amber has a solo career doing English pop, which is so cool (singles from her 2018 album such as 'Closed Door', 'Lifeline', and 'High Hopes' are lovely); I think it shouldn't go unremarked that f(x) are the only SK pop act brave enough to include an obviously-gay member as a main member, as well as the only SK girlband with multiple members who can rap, play instruments, and speak other languages completely fluently (especially Chinese & English, which don't crop up much in other K-Pop, probably for nationalistic reasons).

Even now, I don't think anyone can touch what f(x) accomplished in their short decade together (or now, in their solo careers apart). The overhyped fan-friendly BTS are weak, compliant, dull men by comparison.

Wow, R187.

Did you know I wrote "Pinocchio (Danger)" to warn my son about the dangers of fire and termites?

It's true!

Just found this interview from CBS This Morning (filmed back in January of this year), with former f(x) member Amber Liu. Amazingly, she is whistleblowing on the insidious pressures that SK entertainment moguls, agencies and music Execs put on their talent to maintain a punishing work schedule and a crippling inauthentic image; the pressure that ended up killing poor Sulli, in the end.

Amber courageously reveals the disturbing truth that she and her bandmates were forced to bleach skin, lose a dangerous amount of weight that led to developing eating disorders (she quotes that the most common conversation with her labelmates used to be, "did you eat today?" "no, I didn't, I'm on this diet where I'm only drinking water"), and even considered caving to the relentless pressure to get unnecessary and dangerous cosmetic/plastic surgery as young teens.

She also delineates the difference in the way that male and female groups are promoted and paid for what they do; according to Amber, successful female groups are expected to grab general public popularity if they want backing or good pay which causes ferocious nasty competition, while male groups do well with smaller passionate 'fandoms' and get preferential treatment by labels.

Talking about Sulli, she becomes very distant, morose, and tense. She must be inwardly heartbroken that the above led to the pointless tragic early death of her friend (the one who was close as a little sibling to her), and so furious with both the bullying 'fandom' and the Powers That Be. Her retrospective comment to Sulli's cruel critics, "people; just, let her live, let her be an artist, let her be an actress. Why is this a big deal? It's just a girl, living her life" had me teared up.

The whole industry is completely disgusting, and while some great pop floor-fillers came out it, I'd rather it all collapse if this is all it's about.

Amber is an disgruntled liar. “Bleach” skin? Please.

R190 what makes you say she's 'disgruntled', or even lying?

Amber left SM & the SK industry willingly, of her own accord. Though she was one of the older f(x) members and the group had disbanded, she was popular and high-selling and unique enough that she could easily have continued with her agency, but she said no.

And it's common knowledge that all across Asia, disturbing ideals of beauty have seeded a lucrative empire of cosmetic practises. What's rarer is someone who has lived with that reality coming forward to say how gross and absurb it is.

Amber is so gross. I don’t know how she was cast in the first place.

They need to stop casting foreigners, especially those from the West. They’re not team players, and always want to be the center of attention, at the expense of the groups as a whole. All of them are neurotic trainwrecks who can’t endure discipline and order.

Kai from EXO is super fuckable. Those hip moves go into another dimension:

My favorite thing is watching the male talent go to pieces when Victoria gets within 10 feet of them. Bunch of drooling clowns lmao.

Didn't Eunhyuk say something rude to the press years ago about Krystal wanting his dick? Classic projection. He's just mad because Victoria wouldn't hop on it. Super Junior never did have any class, though I will give it them that they could really move.

R192 R192 so brave to out yourself - as a racist homophobe Nazi drone, who sees women as fuckdoll robots and doesn't think there's anything wrong with corporate abuse of artists & performers.

It's good to know who to block.

Jesus, R195 is crazy.

I’m watching this. It’s relaxing.

Global Opinions

China went up against a K-pop giant — and lost

Opinion by Arthur Tam

Oct. 26, 2020 at 12:37 p.m. PDT

Arthur Tam is a journalist and was formerly an editor at Time Out Hong Kong and Cedar Hong Kong.

Hell hath no fury like a legion of loyal K-pop fans scorned.

This month, K-pop group BTS accepted the Korea Society’s James A. Van Fleet Award, which recognizes the group’s role in developing goodwill between South Korea and the United States. By all accounts, it was a harmless event focusing on diplomacy. But then band leader Kim Nam-joon, better known as RM, made a comment about the tragedies of the Korean War, saying “we need to always remember the history of pain shared by the two nations, and sacrifices of many men and women.”

This immediately triggered the paranoia of the Chinese propaganda machine, which bizarrely interpreted the remark as an insult because there was no mention of Chinese lives lost during the war. State media flooded Weibo, WeChat and Twitter with misinformation and incited Chinese-nationalist sentiments while denouncing BTS, causing brands such as FILA and Samsung to remove images of the group from their Chinese sites.

Yet as the dust settles on the spat, it has become increasingly clear that China picked a fight with an enemy it can’t beat.

China’s relationship with Seoul has been strained ever since the dispute over THAAD, a U.S. anti-missile system deployed in South Korea. In addition, Chinese authorities have made it clear that they do not approve of K-pop’s representation of men and fears its growing influence in the country. China’s own pop culture development in the past decade follows South Korean entertainment’s aesthetic formula in certain ways: Chinese television stations remake their own versions of popular Korean variety shows, and young Chinese performers flock to Seoul in hope of being signed under a Korean record label.

By attacking, Beijing likely thought it could curb South Korean influence and reassert its own political importance in one shot. This was a grave misstep. BTS has become one of the most popular global acts with an extremely protective fan base. Its fan battalion, called the ARMY or Adorable Representative M.C. for Youth, has members across all races, genders, creeds, ages, sexualities and nationalities — at least several million of whom are likely Chinese, based on the group’s Weibo account. And K-pop has continued to grow in China despite pressure from Beijing.

When the Chinese government put an embargo on South Korean commodities in 2016 — including K-pop — because of THAAD, all of BTS’s music and promotional activities came to a halt in China. Nevertheless, its Chinese fan club was able to buy 220,000 copies of BTS’s latest album through a surrogate shopper and bring them into the country, breaking the record for fan purchases. For group member V’s birthday, Chinese fans raised $935,318 to not only support the band but also donate to charitable causes in the name of their idol.

So, when the Van Fleet Award situation erupted, Chinese nationalists were met with opposition not only from fans but also from regular Chinese netizens who were confused as to why there was a controversy to begin with. This forced state newspaper Global Times to remove some of its smear pieces on BTS and the initial online furor quickly died out.

Being challenged was not what Chinese authorities and state media were expecting. Unlike in previous spats — for example, with the National Basketball Association over comments by the Houston Rockets general manager, or with brands such as Marriott over their inclusion of Taiwan and Tibet in some materials — BTS was largely unaffected. Its record label Big Hit Entertainment is still sitting above its initial public offering price. And in the past few years, the group’s global promotional efforts have made them less reliant on China.

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The Chinese government underestimated K-pop and just how emotionally passionate fans are for their idols and what they represent — an inclusive safe space that provides a comforting escape, especially in these pandemic-ridden times. This sentiment is not something the government can strong-arm into submission, like its failed attempts to subvert and strong-arm religion.

From a cultural standpoint, Beijing made a deeply unwise decision. As the demand for Korean pop culture increases around the world, China’s image continues to suffer. In the recent election to the U.N. Human Rights Council, China received the fewest votes ever since joining. And when a high-level government official such as China’s foreign ministry spokesperson Zhao Lijian picks a fight with a boy band, the embarrassing spectacle goes against the image of invulnerability China likes to project.

If Beijing cares about its image, it could take a few notes from South Korea. Since the Asian financial crisis of 1997, the South Korean government has been generally supportive of the country’s creative industries. It understood the importance of art, fashion, music and culture for soft power. And now, big Korean music companies have harnessed their creativity for the perfect product: idol groups who are wholesome, affable and vulnerable, appealing to a global and massive audience.

When the old guard and red guard go up against a group of dazzling young men, it’s not difficult to see who the younger generation would choose to align with — if not now, than in the long run, as Korea’s cultural exports continue to find a larger audience. China can continue blocking BTS all it wants, but the band and the movement they represent are the best bet to win the culture wars in the end.

How do American fans feel about K-pop idols from China spouting CCP propaganda on their social media? Conflicted, I imagine, given the 38th Parallel issue...

Lay, Kyulkyung, Sungso etc. are all Chinese idols who have favoured their home country over the SK groups that made them famous in order to make money and obey the CCP, have posted denials or distortions about the Korean War to their socials, and refused to integrate to their host nation. SK stans have signed petitions to ban these stars and others from returning to SK or rejoining their groups as active performing members. Is this too harsh, or is it justified?

R199, if pressure from the PRC government itself prompted their statements, then I can’t blame them. In the odd chance that their Korean companies, wanting to stay on China’s good side, instructed them to post, I wouldn’t blame them for that either.

If they felt pressure only from their Chinese fans to make a statement, and then did so on their own accord, I think that’s a mistake: if it were just the pressure from fans, they should have stayed silent.

If there was no pressure, but rather their own beliefs prompted them to post, well they’re free to do that (unlike China, South Korea is a democracy with free speech), but for their own careers and those if their groups, they should lie low, maybe skip the next comeback.

I think this should make the companies think more carefully about recruiting talent from China moving forward. It’s probably best to refrain from doing so. There’s talent at home, in Japan, etc.

(Fun article about “the youth.” BTS, K-Pop stans are fighting QAnon and MAGA on social media.)

No One Fights QAnon Like the Global Army of K-Pop Superfans

BTS stans built the trolling blueprint for 4chan types, and they’ve proven they can disrupt it.

Fun read. China can't handle K-pop and BTS.

R180 sounds like a paid shill.

"Smoldering looks" ?

You outdid yourself there. That was a particularly lame and corny remark.

R203 on blocking R180, I can see there is one crazed fantroll, who has posted over half of the responses to this thread.

Figures. It's not like fifty DL posters, or even thirty-five, could muster more than a passing interest in this topic enough to post vehemently and multiple times in its defense.

I officially like some k-pop now though I am not familiar with many groups. I like CL’s latest releases especially “5 Star” and Blackpink’s How you like that?”

R205, do you have Spotify? They have good playlists and streams for K-pop.

I don’t r206. I also like this crazy song by the group Loona. They have about 100 members or so lol. I think the song is called Why not?

R204, you'd be surprised how many non-Koreans become infatuated with K-Pop as a means of escapism from their pathetic and frustrated existences.

It's like when doughy, awkward Americans and Canadians are obsessed with Japanese anime even though they don't know the first or the last thing about authentic Japanese culture nor do they have any respect for Japan. It's insulting fetishism from fat gaijin losers and undesirables that feel entitled to a slender, graceful anime-style waifu.

The k-popper in this thread is the equivalent to an anime loser or yaoi pervert. I'll bet any sum of money that this person isn't Korean.

Jesus. Why do you care r208?

I don't understand what's sexy about this. Shit's way too choreographed and the girls look dead inside.

R210, that’s extremely rare in K-pop. Some weird girl group. Normally, 95% of the time it’s quite wholesome.

R410, this is about as edgy that it gets. Seriously, that GIF is from some weird group of no-names, and they’re not even singing —some random guys are singing. Note how the poster had to search for it, and how others reacted.

R205, this channel stands performances 24/7.

Some variety shows. Steaming.

Exo with Cheeto and Ivanka.

R211 sadly it's not so wholesome behind the scenes for most of them 🙁

R216, they’re millionaires. Twice is huge. They’re fine.

R209, they're hard not to notice. I wouldn't go as far as "care" because the type of fanatics in reference are lowlifes of the lowest order.

R208, I think he was dumped by a K-pop or anime fan. It's triggering.

R209, I think he was dumped by a K-pop or anime fan. It's triggering.

There are so many variety shows. I'm watching this now. They're cute.

R219, R220;

That's wishful thinking.

R217 millionaires? I don't think so. And money doesn't fix years of sexual abuse.

Lol, R223, of course they’re millionaires. Twice? Absolutely.

You clearly don’t now anything about K-pop.

For the poster who’s just getting into it.

Oh yeah I’ve heard that one. Thanks r225.

I like all the girls but I love Lisa. She is a scene stealer.

R226, are you mainly interested in the girl groups? Any boy groups yet?

Itzy is a popular 4th-gen group. Blackpink is 3rd-gen.

I just haven’t heard much of the groups in general. I only heard of Blackpink and a few others because of ONTD.

The itzy video was cute. It’s interesting how these songs are just really unusual. I don’t know how to describe them. It’s certainly a genre unto itself.

R226, Twice is one of the top girl groups. Give them a try. I’ll post their top songs.

Twice - “Likey”

Twice - Yes Or Yes

There are English captions available on all the songs.

Twice - Dance the Night Away

Twice - Cheer Up

Twice - What is Love?

Twice - Fancy

Aren't the groups part time prostitutes to big investors?

R236 "Fancy" was one of the biggest KPop hits of last year, though I think it should have charted higher for Twice only reaching #3 in the charts. Here is boy group Stray Kids' take on it - though I still prefer the original Twice music video in all its CGI glory.

R230 I would also add one of Twice's early hits, "Like Ooh Aah"

The Boyz covering "What is Love". Adorable, but you KNOW they hated doing it lol.

My favorite cover of a third-gen song by a fourth-gen group. "Call Me Baby" w/ the Boyz.

I didn’t like any of Twice’s songs though I appreciate posting them. I think what I like about the kpop groups that I am drawn to is the Teddy Park influence. He has a certain style. CL says he is a big influence on her work.

WHET G-Dragon who was supposed to breakout out of Big Bang and become a huge solo star.

R243, it happened. He’s huge, but was away for two years and just finished his military service.

G-Dragon is a bargain basement Leehom Wang.

Thanks r244. There are some photos where G-Dragon looks like he was starting to morph into a lesbian.lol.

My favorite K-Pop video from the murderous girls of Red Velvet, with special guest stars Itchy and Scratchy of The Simpsons - "Russian Roulette"

Very nice performance from The Boyz.

Seventeen - Don’t Wanna Cry

Performance version

It could be good. I mean we still fondly remember boy bands of the aughts. But the bois are so dull and vapid. It looks like an aerobics class attended by youth whose only exposure to music was Britney Spears videos.

Seventeen are very cute. 🥰

Promo parody ads from Seventeen.

The variety shows are fun and help you learn about all the members.

These boys are lesbians

R255 = Boomer

R255 likes guys like this.

R226, STAYC just debuted. I’m really liking it.

R247, do you like Psycho?

Blackpink’s debut single, “Whistle”.

R229 - “Dalla Dalla” by Itzy

🥰🥰🥰🥰

R259 I prefer Peek-A-Boo (below) to Psycho, not that I only like Red Velvet when they are being all murdery. I think Cookie Jar is one of their best pop songs.

R259 Red Velvet - Cookie Jar

There's good Korean music but it's pushed into the indie side like Standing Egg, Busker Busker, Akdong Musician and Coffee Boy to name a few.

They look like normal but still good-looking Koreans and have more soul and emotion to them too.

Coffee Boy has nice songs.

STAYC's So Bad is one of the best debuts in a LONG time. Killer song.

(G) I-DLE put out a great song today. Beautiful video!

R267, I agree re Stacy. It's so good. I like the 80s synth: very nostalgic, like Stranger Things.

*STAYC

Itself “Wannabe” choreography video. This is the one with the shoulder move that everybody was buzzing about.

*Itzy