Bring back mental institutions!

We don't need no stinkin' mental hospitals! Let's just continue dumping the mentally ill in California, and then blame California for having unsolvable homeless problems.

Some days it seems like DL is doing a good job of babysitting the mentally ill.

I agree. Yes mental institutions were a little barbaric, but frankly it gave people a place who didn't have anywhere else in society to be in. I look at it as the lesser evil.

Now those people are largely homeless and in prisons.

I have been saying/thinking this for years. I do think there are humane ways to care for people in an institution like this—it just needs to be put into practice and not done the Nurse Ratched way. I have a family friend whose ex-husband has schizophrenia, and he is constantly being shuffled in and out of institutions who get him "stable", but as soon as he is out, he stops taking antipsychotics and immediately spirals again. He roams the streets and is always getting himself into the most absurd situations. An example: Back when my family friend was married to him, she came home one day from work and found he had brought over a half-dozen female teen runaways he picked up off the street. Each of them were dressed in prom gowns, and he planned to use them as part of a "prom queen" towing service where a gaggle of young teen drug addicts in ratty dresses come tow your car.

The worst part about it is that he can become violent quite quickly, and has threatened to murder my family friend countless times, stolen from her relentlessly, assaulted her, etc. He was in prison for a time as well after he got prosecuted for stealing. All of this has been going on for over a decade. The problem is he's continually pumped out of the system, back into society where he inevitably causes problems; he then circles back into the system, but only briefly. It's a never-ending cycle—it's truly unbelievable to me that he has not been committed longterm.

R4 I’d watch that show.

Mental institutions for the homosexuals!

Mental institutions weren't closed because they were barbaric, they were closed because they were too expensive. Politicians and voters decided that it was cheaper to leave mentally ill people out on the street than to provide them with housing, food, and medical care.

Those places were a human rights violation. OP belongs in jail.

R8 and what exactly do you propose for people who are severely mentally-ill, as in unable to care for themselves at all? Is it really more humane for them to roam the streets, sleeping outside, no medical care, and eating from dumpsters? I'm not sure that's the lesser of two evils.

I propose we stop perpetuating the myth of mental illness.

“Mental Institutions “ never went away. I believe they’re actually called psychiatric hospitals.

The problem was/is that due to state + federal funding being slashed, the institutions could not afford to keep as many people who were uninsured or low income. So many of those patients were discharged under new guidelines drafted by the gross Reagan administration .

You can still be locked up in the loony bin/nut house ... they still exist. So don’t think any of us are safe!

The people who created those institutions believed homosexuality to be a mental disorder.

R10 = Tom Cruise

R13 = Mimi Rogers

Just wait until the effects of the unemployment and poverty of the Coronavirus/Depression are truly felt... you haven’t seen “CRAZY” yet!

The Funny Farm!

So what, R12? Does that mean if they were federally funded once again, we homosexualists would be involuntarily locked up in them?

I’m with OP. Bring the whole system back. People who can’t take care of themselves don’t need to be out roaming the streets forever just because some bleeding-heart Pollyannas think that it’s more humane to let that happen than to have them cared for in an institution.

Ryan Murphy is not helping OP’s cause.

R8 incidentally, a significant number of the people you want to "save" from the "big, mean evil, psych ward" end up going straight there—not the OP.

In the UK they have a lot of community living situations where people who need long term mental health support can still live somewhat independently.

Poor old crazies.

There's quite a few posters at DL at the moment who would benefit from a long stay in a mental institution. I know it's because of the election but [bold]seriously[/bold].

OP's right. Of course we don't want to go back to the 50s style psych wards. But damn, I live in LA. I would say 90% of the homeless here are addicts or mentally unstable or both. Having a non-prison system that housed, fed, and medicated them? Feels like a win win and since we already spend a shit ton in taxes on the homeless (that never, ever helps)? Seems we have the funds if we chose to redirect them.

I always imagined myself spending my old age sitting in an old, wicker wheelchair with a woolen lap blanket on the porch of the sanitarium looking across the lawn at trees and birds flying by and making soft, chewing noises with my mouth.

You can blame Ronnie Reagan for this, and many other bad things. I swear, RR was the beginning of the undoing of this country and our democracy. How anyone can look back to his days in office with fond memories, has always been a hard pill for me to swallow. I never want to witness another film, TV or entertainment 'personality' within the walls of the White House ever again.

He was R25.

All I know is that mental health institutions are a great place to read about in memoirs.

Autistic kids? I'm guessing you're an old privileged white man?

[quote]bleeding-heart Pollyannas

Go sit on a tack!

Lock up the sociopathic aspies ruining our society. Like Trump. Jack Dorsey. Mark Zuckerberg.

People need care. People need jobs. The healthcare system needs a total reboot to create a prosperous mental health industry which takes care of the mentally ill and provides decent paying jobs for health care workers.

HOW FUCKIN DARE YOU NASTY LITTLE HOMOSEXUAL BOYS. THE MENTALLY ILL NEED OUR COMPASSION, NOT CONDEMNATION...not that I know anyone who is mentally ill.

Bring back lobotomies for ciswomen.

After what white women did in 2016 they’ve proved they need them.

Don't forget the QAnon loonies, OP!

Prison owners would be so upset if we devoted tax $ to mental health services, because they make a lot of money on inmates who should be in mental institutions instead of prison.

And the trannies!

Nut houses!

Speaking of nut, how is sex on the Funny Farm? Those crazies and retards often have big cocks and high sex drives. Alumni, tell us your tales.

I agree, OP - I like my crazies all rounded up together in one place - preferably with thick walls and bars on the windows. I'm tired of stepping around them on the streets of San Francisco.

Yes, because those are the only two possible choices for mentally vulnerable people. Prison-like institutions or living on the streets.

Heterosexuality is a disease. It’s time to treat it like one.

No. Saying they won’t be inhumane again is a lie and deceitful. I think people who want them back are sociopaths

Birng back Lobo! Bring back Sheriff Lobo!

R42: then they are the ones who should be locked up.

You don’t know that, R42.

"Yes, because those are the only two possible choices for mentally vulnerable people. Prison-like institutions or living on the streets."

Unless it is NYC - then they get put into nice hotels

We should bring back lobotomies as well.

Progressives fought for decades to have mental intitutions disbanded because of abuse and human rights violations. You can't lock up adults against their will if they aren't a danger to others, and there are strict legal tests.

They should bring them back tbh. An ex of mine was schizophrenic and in no way should he have been out amongst society. He struggled with reality and would lash out to random ppl all the time. Has anyone in the presidential campaigns spoken about this?

You'll feel that way, OP, until your family or your partner decide it would be nice to get rid of you--because you pissed them off, they abused you and now you're spilling the beans, or they need your money, or they want to live in your house and enjoy your assets as your "trustee." Laws always have unintended consequences. As it is, plenty of people are locked up for being "dangerous." Some of them should be, some not. Look into the statistics--hundreds of thousands are locked up every year. Just not "forever." I guess you want "forever" lock ups, OP?

Being homeless is not a crime or evidence of crazy, btw. Case by case.

Put the far leftists In these institutions!!!

If the mental institutions reopen, R51, they will be filled with grifters, freeloaders, and freaks... we know them as "Republicans".

R25 is correct. Reagan defunded (hey, now there's a word we're all familiar with) mental institutions under the guise of fiscal responsibility, which is another concept we all know to be a lie (as we've seen Republican administration after Republican administration blow up the deficit and the debt... looking at W, Poppy before him, and Reagan tipling the national debt, and now Trump blowing a hole in the deficit so large it may never recover, along with adding — at least — $6 Trillion to the debt).

In fact, the vast majority of both the physical and moral decay rampant in Trump's America can be traced directly to Reagan, who brought the religious right into the Republican party by telling them to discard the shame and responsibility that their Saviour taught them to observe: The poor you will always have with you. I don't know how religious people live with themselves. It's like they turned their backs on everything that their religion says they should care about, instead focusing on everything it says they should render unto Caesar.

Funny how Biblical truths are so...malleable.

I want them to be decorated by Dorothy Draper and the Nurse Ratched set designers.

R49

As a diagnosed schizophrenic (but I believe it’s a false diagnosis), that goes against everything I was taught in my schizophrenic support group.

Schizophrenics need community, they need social interactions with others, they need functionality to improve.

Locking them up in a mental institution away from society does nothing to improve them. In fact, it makes them worse as awful things went down in these institutions. And I think you know that.

OP is confusing old-age dementia with mental disorders and with substance abuse disorders. I believe only old-age dementia patients should be in care homes, the latter two can be managed as outpatients.

It says a lot that DL gets so heated about Reagan.

It says even more that so few DL'ers have a basic understanding of what caused America to fall from the preeminent country in the world to an also-ran in the space of 40 years (and there's a clue!).

There are “disorganized schizophrenics” who are so far gone, they need constant care—more than their family can provide. I used to live with one. He was my then-girlfriend’s father’s soon-to-be-stepson. When I lived in his mother’s house with him, he was in his mid-20s, and a total pothead. He started to become very withdrawn, and I assumed he was just depressed.

Then I moved out, and over the next year or so he was diagnosed with schizophrenia, and his brain deteriorated so bad that he now lives in a home, watches the same episodes of shows over and over again and laughs at scenes that aren’t remotely funny. Doesn’t communicate much, cannot dress himself, could never live on his own.

It would be practically a death sentence to put him on the streets.

Good idea. What could go wrong?

Well said, OP. I completely agree.

"(as we've seen Republican administration after Republican administration blow up the deficit and the debt... looking at W, Poppy before him, and Reagan tipling the national debt, and now Trump blowing a hole in the deficit so large it may never recover, along with adding — at least — $6 Trillion to the debt)."

R53, are you saying that the American economy only soars if there's Democrats running things?

Most American mental facilities were and continue to be little more than torture chambers.

You can’t make mental facilities or, for that matter, nursing homes, humane until the American medical system, itself, is overhauled. And that goes far beyond just fixing the financial logistics of insurance and Medicare and SSI, etc. American Medical schools have been sold off to Big Pharma. As there should be with our police forces, there needs to be psych screening to weed out personality disordered applicants.

The other problem is that, despite some very specific treatments for very specific conditions, advancements mental healthcare have been at a near standstill since SSRIs were introduced. Very, very little that’s of any clinical use has been learned about disabling psychological disorders in the last 40 or so years. Keeping people doped up, numb and half-conscious isn’t anything we should be agreeing is acceptable treatment.

For some people, I do believe that homelessness is a better quality of life than they would have warehoused in a psych ward. I had several friends who became schizophrenic in their late teens to mid-20s and have had three family members with serious psychiatric issues. The only one of the bunch who regained his quality of life and the ability to manage his illness, himself, is a German citizen who was treated in Germany with a combination of medication, psychotherapy, manual labor and theatre.

R62, uh, yes. You nitwit.

[quote]You can't lock up adults against their will if they aren't a danger to others,

That's a half truth. The other part of that is if they can be a danger to themselves. And that is a easy to prove in many cases.

Asylums exist for autistic people. They're called tech companies and they designed every part of the device you're typing on.

R64, no, what you're saying is that the economy suddenly soared and millions of jobs were created but only when Democrats ran things. As soon as Republicans were voted in, the economy is immediately in the shitter and millions are suddenly unemployed. But the next Democrat president? Boom, there you go, soaring economy and millions of jobs! That is not how economies work.

But hey, just keep believing, it will suddenly snap true come January!

R67 = Trumpian economics

I agree with R64. The Republican party for the last 50 years has been saying that Democrats raise taxes and slow down the economy. That line just isn't true and hasn't been for at least the last 20 years. If you look at the cold hard facts R64 is correct, every time a Republican makes it into office, it's they who end up tanking the economy. Usually with huge tax cuts for big corporation also know as socialism for the rich and constipation.

Lets just look at our last 2 presidents for example. Obama came into office in the middle of an economic crisis. You know, when Republicans were in charge. He spend the next 8 years truing it around in a slow but steady climb and hands it off the another Republican who tanks it to historical records. Not to mention add Trillion dollars of debt to the economy BEFORE Covid.

Republicans kill the economy, Democrats fix it, Republicans take the credit.

Near where I live in CA, they have a program with different group homes around the county to house people with dual-diagnosis and mental illness. This seems to me a reasonable approach. It's not so black and white-homeless vs. sanitarium. If I had a loved one in this situation, I would consider this.

I know a woman who has lost her mind and she needs to be kept in an institutioern. I feel sorry for her and wonder what kind of mental illness she has. It just came on when she was about 63.

If you are truly interested in mental institutions, have a look at Titicut Follies; it's a shattering doc about residents at Bridgewater State Hospital for the criminally insane in 1967.

It was banned from being shown until 1992, one of only 2 American films to have been accorded this special treatment.

That's bullshit, R71, I saw it in film school in the seventies.

[quote] I had several friends who became schizophrenic in their late teens to mid-20s and have had three family members with serious psychiatric issues.

Yikes, R63, toxic chemical plant nearby?

It usually happens in your 20's r74.

Wow, I don't even know where to start with this thread.

While I loathe the whole private for profit prison system, bringing back mental institutions just sounds like publicly funded glorified nursing homes.

Do y’all see what’s happening at the border? And you trust the government to keep the mentally ill in mental institutions without being inhumane? Ha!

Family caregivers such as siblings and parents don't get financial help from the government. Respite care is rare and difficult to get. So it's possible to be the full time caregiver to a mentally ill or autistic adult, but it's not possible to do it at all well and also have a full time job and do groceries and cook dinner and do the laundry and make sure the bills get paid and so on. Getting disability for an adult can take years and it's a pittance anyway. Even when a family is able and willing to take in a mentally ill or other special needs adult, that often puts the family AND the special needs adult at risk. It's just not a good option in a society that won't help families in that position out financially. There are just no viable solutions available right now that are a good situation for everyone involved.

It's much more humane letting them sleep in bus shelters.

My sister has a severely autistic adult son who she takes care of. Never would she agree to lock him up in a mental institution. That is fucking sickening.

They need to lock up all the crazy tranny homeless living on Highland. They’re nucking futs.

R81

You’re crazy for posting fucked up shit like this. Something is really wrong with YOU and the sick people in this thread who cream themselves over torturing the mentally ill.

R71 and others, Titicut Follies was banned from general distribution but was routinely shown in Psy 101 classes for decades. That's where I saw it. It was banned from general distribution/broadcast because of privacy issues.

Kudos to your sister, r80.

But she needs live-in nurse with specialized training, regular doctor visits, and schooling/socialization with other autistic patients that she cannot provide alone.

Taxpayers should pay to assist her and other families who are caring for a handful like that. And the ones who don't have families need institutions and full-time, custodial care.

Do people really think that individuals with Disorganized Schizophrenia are better off on the streets than in an assisted living facility? Do people really think a family can take care of these people on their own?

No one is saying that we need to go back to the facilities of >60 years ago, but there’s no reason to completely dismiss assisted living facilities as an option for sufferers of this disease.

Assisted living facilities, yes, but that seems so far removed by what the OP is saying should be brought back.

Other people have said it in this thread, though R86.

Where did anyone say modern day assisted living facilities are worse than homelessness?

The doctor made me strip completely naked first thing.

[quote] Where did anyone say modern day assisted living facilities are worse than homelessness?

Comments like this:

[quote] You can’t make mental facilities or, for that matter, nursing homes, humane until the American medical system, itself, is overhauled.

[quote] The other problem is that, despite some very specific treatments for very specific conditions, advancements mental healthcare have been at a near standstill since SSRIs were introduced. Very, very little that’s of any clinical use has been learned about disabling psychological disorders in the last 40 or so years. Keeping people doped up, numb and half-conscious isn’t anything we should be agreeing is acceptable treatment. For some people, I do believe that homelessness is a better quality of life than they would have warehoused in a psych ward.

This is a classic case where the GOP made us throw the baby out with the bathwater. Never again.

So many Marys on this topic. Looks it's not 1950. It's not a black and white issue. There is no reason we cant figure out a way to house these people permanently with careful mentoring of health both physical and mental. It dose not have to be a "lock em up" prison. It is not better for them to be sleeping on the streets picking through garbage to eat.

Just last month in my own city some homeless guy was hit and killed by a car as he was walking in the middle of the freeway. Another one was robbed and stabbed to death at 9pm in a half way decent neighborhood. The truly mental ill need help not left to the streets because you think it's safer just because your only knowledge of the subject comes One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. That movie is 45 years old!

R92

I know this country and it will 100% lead to that. You mention the 50s, well many Americans are backwards and stuck in the 50s.

You aren’t paying attention if you think it wouldn’t turn out horribly and people would turn a blind eye.

I think we all agree more needs to be done for the mentally ill, but this isn’t it.

And what's your solution R93? Besides leaving them on the streets. It's out of control and getting worse.

[quote] were in the old days, but closing them was a colossal mistake.

blame reagan

R78 nailed it.

R94

It seems like your problem is just that you have to see them (those who are on the streets). You don’t care about them getting better. You want them out of society, out of your view, in an institution where they will be abused, humiliated, tortured. That is what this will lead to. You have no concern for the mentally ill, Susan Collins. So stop lying about your real intentions.

Even nursing homes today are fucked up. No old person wants to go into a nursing home. They suck and neglect and abuse are rampant.

And, well, you saw what happened to people in nursing homes during a pandemic.

Datalounge is home to a lot of fascists, which is why you get people like OP implying autistic children aren't really autistic at all but they should STILL be forced into mental institutions against their and their parents' will. It's also why you get these "sure, mental institutions were barbaric and did more harm than good but bring them back" replies.

[quote]And what's your solution

I'm not who you asked, but this "well, if we don't bring back mental institutions, then there is no solution" rhetoric is pathetic.

The problem is complicated and basically comes down to the government prioritizing capitalism over people and taking away any social safety net we ever once had for the sick and disabled, coupled with a decades-long Puritan-like insistence by the government and the media to paint those who are ill (especially mentally ill) as either fakers or bad people who should be locked up and forgotten about.

What we need is a full overhaul of the system and that won't happen any time soon, basically because most of the public are just like the provincial plebes on here: autism isn't real! these people bring down property values! lock up the fucking trannies!

It's disgusting and embarrassing. You think Datalounge has halfway decent people and these threads show that no, we really don't.

We do still have them, they're called PRISONS now and they make people a lot of money.

Some people with autism are functional with minimal assistance. There are many who are high-functioning and contribute to society. There was just a story on “60 Minutes” about a man who created a company that employs those on a higher-functioning level. They do work that many neurotypical people would find tedious, but these people are good at it and enjoy it. They’re also happy to be working and earning some money. That’s a win-win. Group homes are a good way for them to live somewhat independently.

I worked with a woman who was most likely high-functioning autistic. She happily did a job in a financial institution’s compliance department and she was excellent at it. Her attention to detail was amazing, and she had a dogged determination to correct any irregularity. We always passed audits with flying colors. She was intelligent, prickly and odd. Difficult to work with, but she was a real asset to the company.

But those are just people with autism spectrum disorders. There are severely mentally ill people who shouldn’t be loose in society, for their own good and ours.

It would be nice to have a solution for them, too.

In several situations, it's too much for a family to take care of the person. The caregiver, who can be a parent, a child, or a spouse, has no love and burns out. Also what happens when the parents, who take care of their adult child, pass away? That's why we need this.

And no, it's not because we don't want to see homeless people in the streets.

So those bleeding hearts who have no first hand experience with this need to shut the hell up.

Has no *life*, and maybe no love too

[quote] I worked with a woman who was most likely high-functioning autistic. She happily did a job in a financial institution’s compliance department and she was excellent at it. Her attention to detail was amazing, and she had a dogged determination to correct any irregularity. We always passed audits with flying colors. She was intelligent, prickly and odd. Difficult to work with, but she was a real asset to the company.

R103 but for the skill with numbers and the prickly personality, that’s me to a T. It used to drive my former very-inept Boss insane that I would constantly correct her spelling in letters and promo material, and that I kept such detailed takings books (a move that paid off later, when she stopped paying me and I stormed out with proof).

As we type I’m actually in the process of getting an Asperger’s diagnosis and then hopefully getting some tailored mentoring, after many long years of confusion and fruitless general therapy. I’m a little afraid and conflicted to do it in case of stigma, but I think in the long run I need to in order to help myself improve my own life. Oddly (and slightly disappointingly) everyone I’ve spoken to about it within my circle is more understanding and comfortable with the revelation than they were with my being gay. Go figure.

Still, I feel a lot brighter thinking that there is a manageable reason for my differences and blind spots. I heard a cool thing recently, that a de novo gene mutation may be responsible for many cases of autism - amazing news for an X-Men fan!

You’re right that HFAs/Asperger types do not need institutionalising, or even medicating in many cases. I do feel for the LFAs, though; the modern world and society is no place for them to comfortably exist. And the people who care for LFAs, especially family or lovers, have to give up far too much to make it work. Change is in order.

The problem is a lot of people fall through the cracks, because of the way the laws are written. Then, they worsen without care because nobody can force them to receive care.

For example, there’s way too much secrecy about elderly people who are physically or mentally ill. There needs to be some sort of Good Samaritan law so that friends or relatives of a person that is incapable of caring for themselves, but refuses to seek help, can call the doctor behind their back and the doctor can listen without fear of lawsuits or retaliation by the patient.

I know of an elderly person who was given a new medication and had hallucinations as a result. As time went on, the hallucinations became more and more severe and affected their life at every level. But they refused to tell their doctor of this symptom. And they forbade their family from telling him and forbade the doctor from listening. So as time went on, and the meds built up in their system, they became irrational, paranoid and wouldn’t let anyone near. The family called every authority they could find and were told they were absolutely helpless to do anything if the patient refused help. This patient was also very frail and couldn’t care for themselves even before this situation. But now they refused to let anyone in the house to cook or clean for them. They started living on candy and carbs although they were diabetic.

This person could have easily had at least their mental symptoms cleared by removing the medication. But they refused to be assessed or tell any authority. So they spent months going deeper and deeper into a state of complete irrationality, at home alone, while telling their family their paranoid hallucinations were real. The family lived far away and they didn’t realize at first that these things weren’t happening, because the patient was censoring themselves to sound more rational when talking to outsiders. But while talking to people in person, who were not relatives and had no power, they described extreme, irrational delusions. When any authority figure came, they said nothing and said everything was fine.

I’ve cared for other elderly people, and extreme paranoia and mistrust is common. So is lack of cooperation. If you’re helping people like this, you’re helping them while they claim they’re fine, you’re the crazy one and they’re being mistreated or persecuted. Paranoia is common among the elderly.

Anyone who thinks a person like this should be left to fend for themselves with no help, or end up homeless, or with no utilities because they’re too irrational to pay bills, is crazy. There’s no reason to make it harder for these people than it has to be. It’s not helping them, it’s refusing to help them. Saying that an elderly, frail person, would be better off wandering the streets cold and hungry, without medical treatment, unassisted, rather than receiving help, is ridiculous. I have to wonder about the mental competence of a person that thinks that.

I really got my eyes opened when I saw every possible authority and social service contacted, and every one said, all they have to do is refuse treatment and I have to close the case and walk away. Even knowing another incident could happen tomorrow, I can’t keep the case open. It’s like every law is written to make it impossible to help these people in the early stages.

We all agree that care needs to be improved. No one is saying nothing needs to change.

Bringing back mental institutions is not the answer. We can’t even manage nursing homes today.

R106, thanks for chiming in. I’m so glad you’re getting it figured out, and wish you continued success.

I do think that “awareness” of neuro differences is greater now, and it helps. When another coworker explained that she thought this person was likely high-functioning ASD, it all made sense and I was able to deal with her differently. We had been clashing, and when I changed my approach, everything improved.

For those people on the other end of the spectrum, and with other disabilities, I wish there were a better option. Institutions are scarily ripe for abuse. They can also be appropriate and necessary. Man, I wish we could figure this out.

R25 [quote] You can blame Ronnie Reagan for this, and many other bad things. I swear, RR was the beginning of the undoing of this country and our democracy. How anyone can look back to his days in office with fond memories, has always been a hard pill for me to swallow.

You are so, so right. Within my own lifetime, anyway, I see his election as the point when the U.S. began to really go downhill.

[quote] It says a lot that DL gets so heated about Reagan.

Yeah. It says that at least some of the people here are in their right minds and have their values and priorities in order.

Ronald Reagan let gay men die while his staff cracked AIDS jokes with reporters. Fuck anyone defending him here.

A lot of folks here are quite backwards, posting from the 19th century.

R112

You should realize that until recently gay was considered a mental illness. We were tortured in these institutions as well.

R106. Do you have problems with light or aural sensitivity? I know some autistic people cannot tolerate certain sounds, colors, patterns, etc that neurotypical people can. One of my friend's sons needs sunglasses and earplugs when he goes out in public because otherwise his senses get overwhelmed. I work in a very "aspie" line of work and our office color palette/design was remodeled to be very soothing and beige. They also got rid of the fluorescent lights and replaced them with cooler LEDs. I don't know the exact reason for the change but I suspect making changes to keep high functioning Asperger's employees around longer is the cause.

R114, what the fuck does that have to do with what I wrote? Are you trying to say Reagan closed mental institutions out of goodwill towards "tortured" gay men??? GTFOOH.

R116

No. I just think it’s wrong of you to attack other gay men who do not want these institutions back, when these institutions tortured us as well. I think gay men should be more understanding knowing history and how we have been abused and persecuted. Reagan was bad to us and so were these institutions.

I have a coworker who is an autistic woman in her late 30s. She is certainly an odd duck, but she's very funny - she has a real knack for pointing out the absurd in funny ways - and quite brilliant at her work. She does cybersecurity for our company, and let me tell you, nothing gets by that bitch. Nothing! She lives with her mom who helps look after her and she probably makes more money than most people working in this thread. A lot of autistic people are merely quirky in harmless ways. My coworker, for example, is obsessed with baseball and especially baseball stats. Yes, she brings it up apropos of nothing and it's a little awkward when she won't stop talking about it, but big deal. People like her clearly don't need to be in institutions, they just need a little support and understanding.

[quote] Dignity of risk is the idea that self-determination and the right to take reasonable risks are essential for dignity and self esteem and so should not be impeded by excessively-cautious caregivers, concerned about their duty of care.

[quote] The concept is applicable to adults who are under care such as elderly people,[1] people living with disability,[2] and people with mental health problems.[3] It has also been applied to children,[4] including those living with disabilities.[5][6]

R119, caregivers aren’t just being anal, you have some legal responsibility to make sure individuals in your care are cared for and kept clean and fed. If you don’t, you can be charged with a crime.

Same if you have a conservatorship over someone. If you don’t keep that person clean and fed, you can be charged with neglect and do prison time. And nobody is sympathetic to someone who is “neglecting” a dependent disabled or elderly person. No matter how uncooperative they are and how much they resent being in care.

Some of the people in this thread are so ignorant about this stuff it’s apparent they’ve never cared for anyone who’s incompetent. You can’t force people to do anything, because you can be arrested for assault, but if they refuse to eat or bathe, you can be arrested for neglect. You have to protect yourself as much as you can by documenting what the person in care is doing. And many times they’ll lie and say it’s your fault, because they don’t want to be held responsible for their actions.

Your main defense is bringing in other people, ideally social services or other government authorities, to witness the uncooperative behavior. Otherwise, it’s always assumed you’re an amoral monster deliberately forcing someone to suffer.

R115 personally, I find I have mild sensory intolerance, particularly to very bright harsh white light and to certain loud or unpleasant sounds and smells. Not all ASD people do, but it certainly has cropped up in my life to a noticeable degree.

For example, I have failed my driving test several times due to a combination of sensory overload and panic (from oncoming headlights and traffic sounds), executive dysfunction (being unable to make split-second decisions or follow reflexes), and poor eyesight. Also, the sound of phlegmatic or oesophageal noises spikes my anger/fight or flight reflex like crazy, to the point I have had to sit my poor mother down and politely ask her if she could remember to clear her throat more quietly, as my knuckles can't stand up to any more wall-punching. There was also an issue I had as a kid where I could not touch denim without having a violent physical and emotional reaction, almost an uncontrollable full-body flinch and cringe complete with a cry.

As for the rest, now I'm older and socialised I function about as highly as one can, so I am fortunate enough not to need earplugs or sunglasses or skin-coverings when I go out or a noise machine while I sleep. I am lucky too that I don't really stim (I did as a child, though), and don't go often on long detailed specific diatribes about special interests in conversation either (my little siblings trained my out of that early on). But I do talk to myself aloud quite a bit, and sometimes make obscure references in conversation that others don't get and create awkwardness (I'm working on that). I am extremely touchy when it comes to personal scents, as well - I once made a faux pas of straight-up telling my sister's partner that I hated his cologne (it was by Jaguar, if I recall) and wished he wouldn't wear it when he came to our house because it made the place smell gross.

I admire and applaud your office for putting calming measures in place for your ASD co-workers, especially ditching the awful lights, though I must say I don't find beige is terribly soothing (speaking only for myself, I prefer rich warm neutrals and secondary colours, like pinks and oranges and greens).

[quote]No. I just think it’s wrong of you to attack other gay men who do not want these institutions back, when these institutions tortured us as well. I think gay men should be more understanding knowing history and how we have been abused and persecuted. Reagan was bad to us and so were these institutions.

R117, how did you get that from what I wrote at R112:

[quote]Ronald Reagan let gay men die while his staff cracked AIDS jokes with reporters. Fuck anyone defending him here.

Where do you see me attacking other gay men??

Are you okay? Seriously?

I agree! Bring 'em back! You people are obsessed with nuthouses!

[quote]I swear, RR was the beginning of the undoing of this country and our democracy.

That is correct.