Masculinity is overrated and over-revered.

He's partly right, but don't fight against the obsession of straight acting masculinity and celebrate the femme in you instead. Show that it's "cool" to express yourself the way you are and not make it about one expression being better than the other. Celebrate diversity and individuality.

Whatever, as most things in life come down to personal choices and opinions.

r2. And to accept, respect, or at least tolerate other people's personal choices and opinions.

He is a handsome guy who has a nice body.

We’re gay because we like guys, not males who act, talk and make themselves look like women.

r5

Ignorant vile bastard

R6

Over sensitive fem.

"He's partly right, but don't fight against the obsession of straight acting masculinity and celebrate the femme in you instead. Show that it's "cool" to express yourself the way you are"

Honey, if a man is naturally femme, then acting femme IS expressing himself the way he is!

Gawd, why do some of you think that femme-ness is some sort of put-on? Some guys are just a girly, it's in their nature, they've been that way since they were kids, and anyone who makes them feel bad or "less than" or inauthentic should be ashamed of themselves.

Femmes are always drama.

[quote] Just as Rihanna’s savagexfenty empowered women of all bodies and walks of life

Yes, that's what gay men need, more lingerie! If the writer is femme, more power to him. Instead of instructing other gays to focus less on masculinity, he should just focus on doing him.

I love effeminate gays. He's hot and my ideal man

[quote]Rigid, limited beauty ideals need to be dismantled and rebuilt to incorporate all types of people and bodies.

He should start a camp where people could be trained to be attracted to people they're not naturally attracted to.

Gays don't want to sleep with women or wannabe women.

R13 is omniscient.

And lonely.

Ugh this is why I stay away from totally femme guys. And you know he is on Grindr turning down other femme guys while gaping for masculine guys.

Exactly R15. I meet these boys on apps and they all want a super masc dad. Go figure.

Butchie has spent a lot of time and effort working up a brand and image and identity and its a commodity he is using to be a fame whore and to make money. "Trying to reclaim his space" is just boilerplate and meaningless. Nobody is refusing him space. He says there is a masc "muscle-queen dominated culture" that doesn't give him space but well. here he is, everywhere, doing his thing, selling his thing. These dummies have such threadbare identity "back stories" and "identification politics". I'm sure Butchie meets a few people who aren't superficial (like he is) and like him for his soul or whatever, and I'm sure he meets people who like his "brand" look. Why should he care if "Masc" guys aren't into him. Nobody gets to be a universally loved famed whore, darling.

Like R11 says, yeah he's real cute. I'm masc, and I love fem guys, this one is pretty close to my ideal too. I'm not interested in the slightest in big muscle bears, which is what I seem to attract, fuck knows why?

If you are a masculine gay man, you are masculine. If you are a feminine gay man, you are feminine. Both exist. Both are fine. But trying to make masculine gay men feminine, or feminine gay men masculine, is bullshit and unfair! Just let all types of gay men be who they are naturally, and go after the types of gay men that turn you on. Don't force or change any of us.

Homosexual men who are masculine and who embrace their masculinity without shame or suppression, are the hottest men! Feminine gay men aren't a problem for me, but if you start literally looking a female, then there is a problem.

It's the complete opposite. Femininity and especially ultra femininity, is overrated, and has been glorified excessively in the gay community and in gay culture for a long time.

Masculine gay men and masculinity are what's demonised, especially these days, which is ironic considering the fact that homosexual orientation is about being attracted to men and masculinity. Not ultra femininity or men who act or look like females. If us gay men were attracted to ultra femininity and men who looked like females, we wouldn't actually be gay. It would make us non-gay.

This is just another attempt to get gay men to fuck trans. It seems the establishment have an agenda and are sticking to it.

r18

Yep the ignorant people here saying "no gay wants femmes" are delusional and not living in reality.

r22

Fake ass bitch. This has nothing to do with trans so fuck off.

Be careful y'all, we have filthy dumbass trolls here trying to spread dirty, divisive agendas.

He looks like an old jewish grandma. Is this an onlyfans whore?

'Masc muscle-queen' seems like an oxymoron, OP.

Who cares if he's masc or fem ?

He's trash. That's the first fucking thing you see.

Butchie Gamble,

Good Luck Sweetie...

R23 not a troll just someone who isn't falling for the bullshit antigay agenda.

Lmao at that loser.

Losers who make a huge deal about how much they love their femme side and don’t need masculinity are all full of shit!!

The more femme they are, the more likely they would never date another femme!

The more femme they are, the more likely they are to ONLY chase after republican cis white straight alpha males who hate gays and will most likely kill their femme/non bonary asses.

I’ve never ever met one of these freaks that didnt 100% fulfill the two points above.

Oh, and if these femmes happen to be people of color.... then you can bet they only want white despite saying “brown is beautiful” and that white people are evil.

Two seconds later they’re pushing Meghan Markle out of the “white penis only” glory hole they installed for self loathing people of color.

Femme shaming comes from other femmes.

Of course they actually ain’t even femme! Most think being an overdramatiic diva bitch who only cares about shallow shot makes them femme. No that doesn’t make you femme. It makes you a mysoginistic phony piece of shot. Being a woman does not mean acting like a prostitute drag queen.

Of course liberal women are so stupid that they don’t even realize that their whore drag queen friend is actually just as mysoginistic as the average male. Just because he calls himself she and girl doesn’t mean he won’t cut your throat if a white CHAD comes along. Whore prostitute femme gays only pretend to be “femme” cause a large number of closeted fags love men who pretend they’re women. If that group of closeted “top” didn’t exist, neither would femme gays.

[quote] It makes you a mysoginistic phony

[quote]is actually just as mysoginistic

Oh, dear!

Yes, the gay club and pool party scene in places like LA or Atlanta is full of masc muscle gays or muscle guys faking being masc to fit in and they're mostly conceited twats. But you don't actually need to be part of that scene to meet other gay men. And if you keep trying to force your way in there and get continually rebuffed, it's really your own fault and I have little sympathy.

I live and work in northern CT/Western Mass, most of my friends are gay and only one guy among us would be considered masc. Do we have huge parties to go to every weekend? No, but I wouldn't trade what I have for the WeHo scene ever.

In most place you can always find a gay community that will accept you. You may just have to forgo up a lifestyle tailor made for Instagram, and for some people that's all they want. But I don't feel that sorry for them

[quote] Two seconds later they’re pushing Meghan Markle out of the “white penis only” glory hole they installed for self loathing people of color.

What does this even mean?

What a miserable, miserable world R29 lives in. Fortunately, the people he describes are mostly a figment of his imagination.

R32,

That people of color who brag about being woke usually ONLY want cis white dick. They’d burn the whole world down if they could get rich cis white dick permanently.

R33, femme who only wants cis white dicks.

Any time one of you makes a post about how beautiful “femme/brownis” it’s always bs and a sign that they ONLY chase after cis white dick.

Femmes never date femmes. Woke Gays of color only date whites especially if they’ve “made it”.

Look at James Charles. Phone femme bitch who only dates “straight men”. That’s what all femmes wish they could be like.

I get that premise, r34, but “pushing Meghan Markle out of the glory hole” doesn’t make sense to me.

R34 you seem like a pretty miserable, angry, unpleasant person. You might just attract other shit people to yourself. I know two minority gay couples (Puerto Rican/Dominican and Puerto Rican/Asian) and I can't imagine either of them wanting to be around you.

R36, my bad. I think she’s a self loathing person of color, so thought I’d make a joke about her only dating white dick. I get it didn’t come off that way though.

R37, you’re an idiot who can’t handle the world outside you.

I’m in a committed relationship and have close friends. I don’t need to be part of that world to now what I’m talking about.

For example, I have a horrible opinion of Hollywood. That doesn’t mean I’m part of Hollywood or that my friends are actors trying to make it or that I’m part of the “A scene” in Hollywood.

Clearly you’re only intelligent to make observations about the good you live in.

And you only know two minorities? Shocking that an ignorant white fag would only know two minorities.

I know tons of minorities and only the ones that want to be white have problems with me.

So take your racist white ass out. And tell you’re two self loathing brown friends to go suck a white dick. Oh they prob already are!

First of all, I'm black. Second of all I said I know two minority gay couples. Two couples is four people but I'm not surprised math isn't one of your strong suits either.

And finally, I know about 6 other non white gays well enough that I'd call them friends. Most of the people I grew up with were black or Puerto Rican because I'm from a city. Most of those people are just straight. The same way most of my white friends are straight.

So congrats, you probably have the record for most wrong, ignorant nonsense stuffed into one post. And on DL that's quite an achievement

No one who refers to other human beings as "dick" is worth reading.

“Straight acting” is dumb, internalized homophobia, and anyone who claims to be it is most certainly not it.

Masculinity is different. It is only natural that we would gravitate toward it, and there’s nothing wrong with that.

Many people use both terms interchangeably, r42.

He's got a fit body. Nothing wrong with a fem male. Get over yourselves, DL.

......

What an ugly rat faced thing

Well he looks like a fucking whore for one...ugh that rat face

Masculinity has changed because some desperate to be relevant website says so? Nah, I think most guys going about their lives couldn't care less what masculinity is because they're to busy with their lives to give a shit. Maybe these femme guys should spend more time working in actual jobs than overthinking everything with all their free time as media influencers.

[quote]because they're to busy with their lives

Oh, dear!

R49 If that's your way of undermining the argument, not a great job.

and feminine men make me puke

I'm gay, so I like MEN, not girlie girls

Masculinity is revered in the gay community because we are gay men. Gay men don't want to have sex with women. Gay men don't want to have sex with men that act or dress or behave like women. Gay men are not attracted to women. Get over it, femmes.

There must be a market for these Uber femme gurlinas. I just can’t. I want a man.

R48 I see your points but the masc4masc only culture among some if my generation does bother me some. I think it's a stone's throw away from self hatred. It's perfectly fine to prefer masculine acting guys. But why advertise it so much? Why do femme acting guys bother some gays so much that they need to make it clear they aren't one if "those gays"

I see it with other black people too. Some go out of their way to point out they aren't one of "those blacks". They are the good kind. It's not a good look

My view on effeminate gay men is you can behave, dress, and express yourself in any way you want to and that's your prerogative. It is your right to express yourself however you want to. However, you don't get to demand that people like you. Just like it's your right to express yourself, it's also the right of another person to not like how you express yourself. You can't force people to kiss the ground you walk on. And more importantly, and I'll say it loudly so that all the femmes in the back can hear: sex is a privilege, not a right. People do not have to fuck you or be attracted to you if they don't want to.

Effeminate gay guys really don't seem to understand. We have no issue with how you express yourself. But being comfortable with your femininity does not mean that you're entitled to whatever cock you want because of that. Sometimes people don't want to fuck you. Instead of stomping your feet and claiming it's internalized homophobia, act like an adult and move on.

[quote]Trying to claim my space in a masc muscle-queen dominated culture is exhausting and never-ending. Rigid, limited beauty ideals need to be dismantled and rebuilt to incorporate all types of people and bodies.

I wonder whether his Grindr hookups reflect this position, or if he's merely complaining that the hot dudes don't want to have sex with him.

R50, you must be new around here.

Stick around for a few, dip your toes in and see how things work around here before you get all cunty.

There is nothing that screams "best-little-boy-in-the-world-syndrome" more than complaining about the fact that hot men don't want to fuck you. Oddly enough, these gender-people who always bitch about not having a line of hot, masc men lining up outside begging to fuck them never seem to use introspection when rejected. It's always the fault of the other person for not being attracted to them.

It's fucked up that we live in a world where if you don't consent to having sex with somebody you can be labeled as racist/homophobic/sexist for not wanting to fuck that person.

R58 you can criticize a subculture without just being mad they won't fuck you. I sometimes criticize how many gays are obsessed with unnatural gym bodies. It leads to eating disorders, drug use, injuries and dehydration. It's not because I'm angry they won't fuck me. I just actually think the IG body culture is unhealthy and not good for the community.

R59 Yes, but masculine gay men aren't all just gym rats, just like feminine gay man aren't all just crossdressers. It varies, and to group all masculine gay men under the gym rat umbrella is kind of hypocritical.

Who...and what?

R60 I agree with you completely. I wasn't trying to conflate all masculine gay men with IG body obsessed type.

I just used that example because it came to mind easily. Obviously some amount of gym going is healthy and to be encouraged. It's a small subset that takes it too far and idolizes other people that do. I only wanted to point out that some subcultures really are unhealthy even if the criticism seems to come from envy at first glance

[quote]Trying to claim my space in a masc muscle-queen dominated culture is exhausting and never-ending.

I don't understand what "claim my space" means. Do the bodies of feminine men lack object permanence? My gay body has always occupied a certain amount of space without having to think about it, whatever environment it's been in.

Or he complaining about airline travel culture being to masculine and airlines like United making passengers compete for room?

Or is he saying that a feminine man needs more than one human space and others need to be displaced for him to have enough?

[quote] My gay body has always occupied a certain amount of space

And increasing every year.

Is this more from the Cult of Non-Binary? He's welcome to fuck Alok or Jacob, especially since no one else will.

The "claim my space" thing shows this rant for what it is: an attention whore who needs all eyes to be on her at all times being upset that hot men aren't into her. Yawn. Tiresome.

[Quote]We have no issue with how you express yourself.

We? Pretty presumptuous on your part to assume you are perceived as masculine, when in reality you probably make Ross Matthews look like an MMA cage fighter.

R67 And you wonder why the rest of the gay community hates femmes.

Oh wow

Go be femme and see if you get fucked more or less.

"Why aren't people enlightened enough to want to fuck me?"

You can't guilt-trip people into being attracted to you - this goes for femme gay men (or middle-aged feminists, or non-binary whatevers) just as much as for the dreaded incels.

Since, as Gay Men, our feminine side is violently suppressed it’s important for us to embrace it to fully develop ourselves.

[quote]claim my space

Must be code or signaling.

Have no idea what it means, and I'm OK with that.

R72, only speak for yourself, bro

It's not true that "no one wants fem guys". Even Frankie Grande has no problem finding men.

Frankie Grande can pull thirsty gays who are desperate to get close to Ariana. If he was Frank Grand from Sacramento, would he still have no problem finding men to fuck him?

r76

That is a complete lie. Does his boyfriend look "thirsty to meet Ariana" to you?

Femmes have no problem finding sex, they just have problems finding sex from normal gay men. Femmes can have all the dick they want as long as they're comfortable with only fucking masculine, closeted men or other femmes. But they aren't, because they want to have it all. They want to have every man under the sun kissing the ground they walk on.

Is he really trying to pretend to be a gay role model whilst also working at Equinox?

R76 I'd happily fuck Frankie Grande, and have no interest whatsoever in Arianne or whatever her name is. She dont sing no Country n Western

I am attracted to guys for who they are, not who they happen to be related to, and I happen to like fems, I'd want him even as Frank Grand from Sacramento. Or Frank Grand from Greasy Corner, Arkansas

I'm very attracted to fem twinks. Of course the ignorant and dumb people here will say "I'm not really gay" for liking fem guys. It's weird. Datalounge is the only place I've been where I've seen this fucked up logic.

R81 Then leave our site, cunt. If you don't like it then beat it.

See I wouldn’t consider Frankie femme. He’s loud, abrasive, confrontational, and always needs to be right. That’s not femme to me. Femme is quiet, passive, nurturing, and always need to be kind.

Just because he’s materialistic and needs 100 lbs of make up, that doesn’t make him femme, it makes him an untalented drag queen.

I’m attracted to REAL femmes not these wannabe divas.

Real femmes have zero problems finding relationships. The wanna be drag queens are the ones always complaining about getting rejected and only being used for sex.

R77 damn, they sure make a real cute couple - beautiful!

R81 yeah me too, fem twinks are my ultimate.

What some folks fail to understand is that Different People Like Different Things.

Dont make any of us any less gay though. For instance there's a thread running now about Fat Guys You'd fuck - I wouldnt but those that want to are most welcome, and I'm not gonna shit on them for liking something different to what I do. Ditto bears and big muscled guys, neither hold any interest for me, but I'll not run anyone down for liking bears or muscle bulls (is that what they're called?)

R78, most fem guys are exclusively or nearly exclusively attracted to masculine men. Many are only attracted to nongay men, as we have seen with some well-known gay male social media influencers. However, the problem is very few masculine guys want to openly date a fem guy, so many fem guys get trapped in a revolving door of loveless trysts with guys who are ashamed to be associated with them.

Masculinity is overrated?

Maybe.

But I quite like Connor McGregor and his big balls sack.

r86

He's gross and should be in jail for traumatizing his peers by throwing a heavy object into their business. The fact that that vile POS gets any worship at all is a tragedy.

More femmes blaming the fact that they can't catch a dick on "toxic masculinity". Boring. Tiresome.

Who fucks this?

Those eyebrows are cause for a bashing

R88 ever wonder why femme gays don’t fuck femme gays?

R91 I don't have to wonder, it's for the same reason trans people that complain about not getting laid don't just fuck each other: despite all their hemming and hawing, even they themselves aren't attracted to feminine-presenting men. It's hypocritical, but it's true. They all only want to fuck masculine gay dudes.

In my experience, many are easy lays as bottoms, but I personally have little to no interest in dating them.

To each his own; stop trying to push your notions on others...

R92, few want to be with gay-identified dudes, no matter how masculine. They chase straight bros, sometimes bi ones

R89 me

I'd totally do him

You’re a distinct minority bruh

R85, exactly. These “woke” femmes are always complaining about “toxic” masculinity but then they refuse to date another femme person.

It’s like a 70 year old who won’t date anyone over 30 complaining about those under 30 being ageists.

Or Asians complaining about how racists white men are yet they only date white men. Asians treat other minorities like crap but play victim when a white dude doesn’t want them.

Well, the overwhelming majority of people attracted to males seek conventionally masculine men, or at least ones who aren’t fem.

Nice ass but not much in the way of tits

I don't really care what some femme who's upset he's not getting laid says. Masculinity isn't going anywhere, and neither are masculine beauty ideals. The way that I know this is even the femmes complaining about masculinity only want to fuck masculine dudes. People can complain all they want, but if masculine dudes are the only kinds of dudes people want to fuck then masculinity ain't going nowhere. High demand equals high supply.

It’s great 👍🏽

Bump

No one wants fems

R104 bullshit - there are guys that do, sure they are a minority there's no denying that, but still a fair number out there that do

Well duh. Of course some self loathing gays only date femme guys in order for their peers to perceive them as the top, alpha, the man in the relationship. And some femme guys are ok with that dynamic.

Agreed. I think this guy is really hot. Not DL's taste at all, I know. But he is so so so pretty.

Normal masculinity is always in style and desired.

Damn that's nice

And R106 self loathing my ass. I dont give a shit how I'm perceived, i just know what I like and I go for it

so even though I love to see masculine men who might only vaguely enjoy my attention toward them, I should not express myself and seek out what/who I find to be handsome and beautiful? Note to self, I guess. has a vague nazi type of vibe though, ruling out what I want to admire and worship....

Fems are way down in the pecking order

Maybe if were drunk and there were no other options

But I wouldn’t tell my friends

This sounds like motivated reasoning to me: “I’m not masculine. Masculine men are popular. So I’m going to argue that masculine men are overrated, even though I’m attracted to masculine men myself.”

He reminds me of frustrated/failed artists who claim that all great art has already been made and therefore nobody should bother to create something new anymore.

Ironic, because he only likes manly men.

Skanky femme whorebags who dress and act like women. That's what gay men want. Not some hot hairy muscle guy with a nice thick cock, a muscle butt, and a handsome face. Nope. No gay men wants that. Give us a partner with frilly lace underwear, thick pancake make up, lipstick and lots of eyeliner. I'm cumming right now.

Dear r109, for someone who doesn't give a shit you sure were quick to get all defensive about my comment which included the word "some" (and not all). So, apparently you believe you aren't self loathing and yet believe the comment was aimed at you and you simply had to defend your preference? LOL. OK then.

r110, is that your attempt at a passive aggressive comment? Poor thing.

R115 sorry mate I missed the "some" completely. Duh I'm a thick cunt sometimes

Some of us are just masculine. Some queens hate it because they’re not. ‘Declare’ yourselves all you like. It ain’t gonna change.

So why don't the femmes just stop bitching and date each other? Or are they not attracted to each other either? Lol

R118, they’re not attracted to each other and find fem men unworthy of dating.

That’s why I laugh at these stupid articles because that’s always the case.

If one of these fem freaks actually dated other femw, then I’d respect their point of view. But that’s never the case.

The more these woke freaks complain about masculinity the more likely they are also homophobic self loathing lying pieces of crap.

The more these [bold] woke freaks [/bold] complain about masculinity the more likely they are also homophobic self loathing lying pieces of crap.

Wow, what a great catch you are. it's a mystery why you waste any time on Datalounge at all.

To answer R89 - people with a fetish for clowns?

I agree with OP.

R114 How about accepting that gay men have different preferences? Some like masculine men while others like feminine men. Nothing wrong with either. Both are valid.

R123 finally some fucking sanity, well said

R122 he is beautiful, theres a heap more real pretty pics on his Insta, just my type

I best get on my knees and put in some overtime revering "masculinity" cuz I must admit a big "no" to whatever Noen represents. But it is definitely "vive le differnece", and that I have no problem with.

Okay

Noen thread

Thank you R127

Update:

Due to stay-at-home orders, Butchie is out of work. He's been dancing in his bedroom for his IG fans. He opened a FansOnly account. He's also looking for a room to rent. Guess his rent is too high.

Jesus fucking Christ. Let people like what they like. I am attracted to hyper masculinity, I am not attracted to femininity. That does not mean that I don't think feminine guys are just as valid and have a place, they are just not for me. What's not sinking in here? This guy is being as toxic as the constructs he's criticising.

I don't mind fems at all, but I'm not at all attracted to them. I'm gay because I'm attracted to MEN. Fem guys should absolutely be able to act how they like, live their natural personalities, etc. I'm just not attracted to that, just like I'm not attracted to females.

R130 R131

The problem is fem guys are being treated like shit in our community and that shouldn't be the case. Just being yourself in the gay community shouldn't mean alienation and exclusion. Especially when so many gay men are naturally fem.

There is no “gay” community

"Just as Rihanna’s savagexfenty empowered women of all bodies and walks of life..."

A celebrity selling thongs is not a paradigm for social change. Buying more shit is not empowerment. This is beyond stupid.

R132 I do not support fem guys being treated like shit, but I also do not support fem guys tearing down masculinity as a means to elevate themselves. That's the same bullshit that radical feminists do and it is reductive and ignorant.

“Trying to claim my space in a [...] culture is exhausting” - what? Maybe stop trying so hard hun...

Theres a lid for every pot. It would help to start looking in the right place than to compare and despair.

This is just an individual trying to deflect personal rejection by pulling others into a group and getting them to rally behind him.

Sexually speaking, that really only works well during an orgy and only about half the time!

]R32 she meant those brown queens open white only glory hole for brown people to enjoy white dick, but if any other actual brown people, other than themselves, show up to enjoy it, bitch mode is on.

MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY!

MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY!

MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY!

MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY! MARY!

Trainwreck

Someone typed in ‘masculinity’ into search today

R29 R34 R35 Why do you keep screeching about "cis dick"? Pray tell, what are these other types of dicks we've all been unaware of?

Stringing together a bunch of woke terms doesn't make you sound smart or interesting. Quite the opposite, actually.

You either have a dick or you don't. Fuck that "cis dick" nonsense.

Masculinity is not overrated, and there are many definitions of masculine. I love petite guys, but I don't like feminine guys...if I wanted a woman, I'd get one. I think this guy is really cute, but if I started undressing him, and found panties and fishnets and painted nails, that would be the deal breaker. And totally agree with R143, so tired of the"word of the day" cis bullshit. I'm all for everyone being whatever they want to be, but that doesn't mean that I have to like it, and I'm certainly not going to fuck it.

And I'm certainly not going to make myself memorize a million fucking buzz words plus pronouns to appease anyone. Fuck that!

Do these people also not realize that you can't really create your own "standard of beauty"? I mean, if you're doing it for yourself, sure. But beauty is ultimately in the eye of the beholder which generally means other people will be the one to find you attractive or not. If they don't, oh well. Writing bullshit essays like this won't make anyone find you hot. And writing shitty poetry won't either (looking at you, Alok).

Why are SO many gay men in this thread claiming that what makes them attracted to other men is common masculine traits and they aren't attracted to femme guys when it's common knowledge that the most effeminate men are gay men? You're basically saying you aren't attracted to gay men when you say you aren't attracted to feminine men. GENERALLY speaking of course.

R147, maybe, but what’s your problem with them being honest?

In my experience, among couples who seem to have the most successful relationships, each partner recognizes and accepts both the masculine and feminine traits in both himself and his partner. By contrast, many gay men who obsess over extremely "masc" men are subconsciously trying to imitate traditional straight relationships. I.e., they're effeminate (and don't even realize it) and seek extremely masc guys to balance out their own feminine traits. It's a matter of balance.

[quote] Trying to claim my space in a masc muscle-queen dominated culture is exhausting and never-ending.

The DRAMA!!!

[quote] Trying to claim my space in a masc muscle-queen dominated culture is exhausting and never-ending.

The DRAMA!!!

R148 it screams of self loathing and homophobia

I want to clarify that I understand why gay men would not be attracted to the guy in op's pic. It's one thing to be have some traits that are stereotypically feminine but the guy in op's pic is wearing WOMEN'S lingerie for Christ's sake. Lingerie isn't even designed to be flattering to a man's body

R152, a lot of guys are innately only attracted to conventionally masculine dudes, whatever those dudes’ orientations are. They are not able to change that fact. By the way, most women are attracted to conventionally masculine dudes too.

Being attracted to men usually means you are attracted to masculinity. The two are correlated

Most gay men do have "gay voice" and/or other effeminate traits. That's the truth whether you want to accept it or not. Additionally, gay men are a vast minority. I find this whole masculine thing FAKE!

It puts the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again. It does this without being told.

The more gay men embrace and embed in gay culture, the more effeminate they tend to become. Truly masculine gay men tend to be integrated and associate with their nongay male peers. They also tend to have bi tendencies.

R158, if truly masculine men associate only with nonage male peers, then anyone posting on this day DL board must be femme.

It isn't like all gay men are masc or femme - most are just in the middle, average, normal guys. Look at the gays around you, many of them are not masc or femme - and many have a partner that is just another in the middle, average, normal guy. Sure there is hypermasculine and hyperfeminine but a lot of people fall in between. There isn't just two choices.

R158 If you are "gay" and have "bi tendencies", then you're bi. Words have definitions.

R153 That's always my issue with these people. It's okay to be feminine (I have a soft spot for feminine guys myself), but this is something else entirely. They say they are "shattering" the uber masculine standards, but all they are doing is running to the opposite end of the stereotype scale and turning themselves into fashion disasters (at best) or cheap burlesque hookers (at worst). To me it just seems like a desperate cry for attention from someone with very low self-esteem.

I'm sorry R160 but that simply isn't true. MOST gay men have feminine traits and mannerisms that separate them from straight men. Studies have shown that people can recognize gay men from straight men looking only at their faces and/or by listening to their voices. So if gay men are only attracted to masculine guys then I guess they're stuck avoiding each other and pining after straight men. Seems like a sad way to be but to each his own.

There is a difference between having feminine traits (mannerisms, voice, etc) and being a straight-up woman (i.e the guy in OP's pic). You can be masculine with feminine traits.

Do a search of “muscle” on Instagram or Tiktok or Instagram. Then do a search Of “gaymuscle.” There is a huge difference in how the guys in the first search look, act, and sound and the guys in the Second search. A chasm

I guess.

Nope

Effeminate men are the best.

Not into fem guys, sorry.

Yes I want to fuck fems so I can be what a secretly want to be, STRAIGHT!

A man who can be himself without caving to society’s bullshit standards is incredibly sexy to me.

Femmes...fuckable once, as long as your friends don’t find our. Femmes aren’t dateable.

It's interesting how before the 1800s, a man of high class was expected to be well-read, well-dressed, treat women and children with respect with hitting them being heavily looked down upon since it disrupted the family structure, men crying was actually seen as masculine and men hugging/kissing each other and sharing beds with other men didn't turn any heads. Have we regressed?

“need to be dismantled.” Fuck off, fascist. We’ll do what we want.

Masculinity is not overrated. I wouldn't want a world where nobody is masculine nor feminine.

*I wouldn't want a world where nobody is masculine nor one where nobody is feminine.

A lot of people associate being a psychopath and being disgusting with being masculine just like a lot of people associate emotional instability, materialism and vanity with being feminine

Here is the wonderful world where everyone is gender neutral.

R168 and R171 with ya there

R172 femmes are dateable as far as I'm concerned, and all me friends know and I dont give a shit what anyone thinks

Fem guys are fuckin awesome and sexy

r179 you’ve stated your lust for effeminate twinks at least 100 times on this message bored.

No one gives a shit about your fetish for feminine men.

R180 so what the fuck are doing on this thread if you've no interest in fem guys then?

I can’t speak for r181, but perhaps he is not attracted to fem guys, but has no problem chopping it up with them on a discussion board. Like so many.This is not a dating venue.

What don’t you fuck women’s cunts and get it over with?

A second question: are you autistic? Because you say the same statement 100 times, when nobody is interested r181

R183

You are so vicious for no reason. It’s no wonder why no one wants to hang out with you. People like you need to remove the stick from your ass. You’re no fun. Toxic, vile trash.

R184 I think the word you are looking for to describe R183 is CUNT

Oh yeah. Almost forgot to add - I love fems

Just in case y'all didnt know :-)

The dick likes what it likes. As long as it's consensual adults.

The article at R185 basically lists 2 reasons (femme guys are sensitive and fashionable) and splits hairs to turn them into 11 reasons

R187 True enough. I only posted it to shit stir R183...... who done got MORE posts in this thread than anyone else

Funny dat

R188 lol

What about other 99 times you’ve posted on DL about your desire for fucking femmes that I have never responded to?

Whatever makes you dick hard V8fairy. But you are verging on Megan Markle troll territory , because no one gives a shit about what you want. If the block function where working, I’d block you because you are so boring with you constant statements about one thing.

R189

You only have a problem with him because it’s about effeminate men. You don’t make an issue with the many posters who post reply after reply about how they find masculine so hot and fems are “dick shrinking” or whatever.

R109. Let me spell it for you: it’s because V8fairy signs his name to every dumb repetitive post about his lust for femmes that I’m calling out for it. Otherwise, it would be just another stupid post made another stupid cunt poster.

You are really an idiotic twat r109

Sexy fuck

Hell yeah, Goddamn that is nice

My type

I was the femmiest femme who ever femmed ,and I didnt wear womens clothes or makeup (well,a little,it was the 80s after all) .I promise you,I got more dick than 90% of you bitches on here . Ive never understood the hate for queens like James Charles and others like him. You dont want to fuck him,fine,move on then. Other guys will. Variety is the spice of life . I must have been an anomaly in my life . I didnt hate dykes,blacks,femmes ,old guys,anybody .

Masculinity might be overrated but complaining, hypocritical femmes definitely are a BORE.

Get over it, OP. Gay men are not going to change for you.

Just hang with and date people like yourself.

Sexy

OP's first photo the caption should read- Having a SAGGING ass is OVERRATED.

The worst thing are deluded gays who THINK they are hot but all they are is SCENEY and QUEENY.

Wavy Davy is a PERFECT example of this type of queen.

Wavy Davy looks like a - GAY Keebler Elf.

R32, it doesn't even matter what it means. You just add that shit to your block list.

MARY!

R203- MARY MARY quite CONTRARY.

R202 yeah that post at R29 dont make no sense any which ways, it can go straight to the shit list

R198 thanks for firing this thread up again with that real cute vid

The usual suspects will be along to bitch and complain again like what they did before I guess

My type

Well the guy whose vid OP kicked off with is still looking mighty fine as of May this year. Real fit bod, I'd totally hit that

A black lesbian wrote this about social reaction to masculine women: “ The debate around Lil Nas X made me think a lot about my journey with my masculinity in this Black female body. When I told men both Black, white and all between that I was gay, the only ones who saw it as a threat were white. The others praised me – I was ‘one of them’ because they thought I had left my femininity behind.”

The gay fetishization of hypermasculinity is uncomfortably close to a Fascist impulse

Far too many femme gays dress like sluts. There needs to be a new movement of feminine gays who dress like more mature, responsible-type gals. Femme gays who wear women's leisure suits, shawls, prairie dresses, blouses, and mom jeans.

R210 Nicolas Fairford would be just your thing

Personally I like em all dressed up slutty - booty shorts, crop tops, bring em on. But I'm trashy like that

Best thread

Harangue me all you want but my dick will only rise to what I'm attracted to. Big Boy just has a mind of his own.

Maybe its not fair, evolved, kind,loving, politically correct, whatever. I'm a gay man I'm attracted to men, not women, girls or people who resemble them. Sorry, well to be honest, not sorry.

You might as well fuck a woman if you want femme.

No it’s not. I love masculine men, and I’m a big ol les.

Not a flamers fan at all.

[quote]No it’s not. I love masculine men, and I’m a big ol les.

Is that because you’re masculine or aspire to be a masculine man?

Why do I strongly suspect this queen fucks only masculine looking men?

R218 well I hope so because I want to fuck him badly

Hypermasculinity seems so fake. Haven' t you noticed that all confident guys are more naturally masculine.

Have you noticed that most men who are in position of power, as the wokes call them "cis white man on the position of power" don’t need that hypermasculine act. Hypermasculinity is the big thing among deprivileged, working class, minorities. You see many hypermasculine black men, our guys on Balkans, Middle Eastern guys, but not so much among the nations who really rule the world. Just the overcompensation thing. Same as some queens who are too eager trying to be straight acting.

The guys that are really fucking us all, on the contrary, are so much more laid back.

Of course there are exceptions like Putin, but he is a very insecure guy who came from poverty and started his career as spy, so he has the urge to prove himself.

.,.,

R215 You are not les if you are into masculine men, well, any men.

R217, no, I’m a femme les. I just like men being more masculine acting.

I love fem bussy

Not by me!!!