New York City votes to ban cashless businesses in step against discrimination

Wrong side of history here.

Good.

weird set of priorities

Or you could try addressing the wealth and homelessness problem so that this wouldn't even be an issue. But no, of course not, that'd be too hard.

sounds right, never understood how they were allowed to refuse the "legal tender" of the country

I believe that people should have a choice with regard to payment methods. However, this includes businesses making a business choice NOT to accept cash. It's a financial and operating choice to reduce time, effort, and costs for the business.

All government and public entities should have to accept both where payment is required. "Lineline" services should take both.

Beyond those, a business must do the calculus about whether the loss of business from NOT accepting cash is greater or less than the total cost for accepting it, including incremental risks associated with security and loss/theft. For some low margin business or high volume businesses, it can be too expensive to take cash payments.

It's discriminatory against people of color and undocumented immigrants.

I guess they don't want to have Costco gas stations.

Now can we ban cash-only businesses? I never carry cash anymore and these places piss me off.

This has all led to me finally having an answer for panhandlers: "Sorry, I don't carry cash anymore".

I imagine CostoCo could (and will) argue that you can go inside with cash, buy a CostCo cash card, and then use it to get gas R8. Their gas stations are often open when the store isn't though.

WTF carries CASH?

OF COURSE BAN IT.

I carry cash, get off my lawn.

Thank goodness government is stepping in on this clear travesty.

Now, if you don't mind, I need to get back to embezzling to pay for my $3000/mo closet.

[quote] It's discriminatory against people of color and undocumented immigrants.

Seems odd that if certain other people said this it would be considered “racist”

[quote]WTF carries CASH?

Olds, poors and illegals.

[quote]It's discriminatory against people of color and undocumented immigrants.

Kinda don't give a fuck about the latter. If they were resourceful enough to sneak into the country, they're resourceful enough to get a debit card.

[quote]It's discriminatory against people of color and undocumented immigrants.

So are higher prices arising from higher costs associated with handling cash, security, theft, and the operating costs required to count down cash drawers at the beginning and end of shifts, make cash deposits, bookkeeping and cash accounting, and obtain change (some banks actually charge as part of their business services).

What's your point?

To be unbanked or not have credit cards is the problem, not cashless payments, since both lead to even worse abuses, such as payday lending.

As brick and mortar stores continue to close (see the Fairway supermarket bankruptcy thread), even more purchases are going online. How exactly are people going to be able to acquire goods online if they only have cash?

Making it illegal to be cashless does not solve the underlying problem. It merely kicks it down the road until we reach the point where potential future solutions will be more onerous and more expensive for all parties involved, including the government which will eventually have to develop a solution at the expense of taxpayers.

In your paternal zeal, you're actually making it more difficult and expensive for the people you pretend to want to "protect" from "discrimination."

....

Nice to see that DeBlasio aka Warren Willhelm cares more about illegal aliens who have committed crimes than helping businesses stay afloat

I understand addressing poverty would be the best long-term solution, but for now this feels correct. Businesses that don't allow cash are predatory in nature. Not everybody can have a credit card in America, and these types of business encourage credit card debt. It may be paternalistic, but necessary.

People better get used to it. In thirty years, kids will be saying "Cash? What was that?"

R20 ever hear of personal responsibility? People who go o to credit card debt from buying things they can’t afford or need have only themselves to Blame.

Moreover, being able to buy the latest fast food craze or Shop at the Amazon pop up shop is not a constitutionally mandated right.

R21: yes, but there would have to be an alternative version of currency that doesn't require plastic/credit attached to it. We're not there yet.

[quote]Businesses that don't allow cash are predatory in nature.

They just don't want to deal with cash.

R22: no shit. I am responsible myself, but that doesn't mean I'm dense or delusional to the current state of the American economy. It is evident a large quantity of Americans lack that personal responsibility or lack the proper education, thus these types of measures are necessary from the government.

It's not about being able to shop the latest fad, either. Lord, some of you are so dense. This could create a trend if not nipped in the bud.

[quote] ever hear of personal responsibility? People who go o to credit card debt from buying things they can’t afford or need have only themselves to Blame.

Ever hear of predatory businesses? A lot of people got into credit card debt in college when banks hand out credit cards to anyone who fills out an application without understanding what they're getting into. Not everyone has parents who taught them fiscal responsibility

R24: a business that doesn't want to deal in the country's major form of currency? That sounds like a personal problem. The businesses should be the ones to adapt to public policy, not the other way around. Do you understand how the opposite could be problematic?

Sweden is basically a cashless society now and they're doing just fine.

NYC is a shithole.

[quote]I understand addressing poverty would be the best long-term solution, but for now this feels correct. Businesses that don't allow cash are predatory in nature. Not everybody can have a credit card in America, and these types of business encourage credit card debt.

Policy and laws based on how they "feel" lead to the most ill-informed and misguided attempts to solve problems, not to mention that an inadequate understanding of the problem and impact of the solution(s) often lead to worse unintended consequences.

There is absolutely no proof that a business that doesn't accept cash is predatory. Inconvenient for some people - sure. But, there is no factual basis that the majority of these are predatory in nature.

[quote]It may be paternalistic, but necessary.

Well, it's certainly good to know that you're there to save people from themselves. Infantilizing people rarely works out well for either group. You do realize that one of the more popular antebellum justifications for slavery was based on the paternalistic view that it was in the slaves' best interest or that slaves viewed their masters in a manner similar to the way children see their guardians and wanted to be cared for.

So, good luck with that.

This is the wrong way to look at the problem. Even in low income brackets in third world countries digital financial services are getting traction and the focus should be on giving people access to them, not the opposite.

The cashless businesses in NYC aren't the places that ghetto people would ever shop at.

R30: this was a load of nonsense. I feel this is correct, nobody said the lawmakers based their decision-making on feelings. Are you stupid?

Your second point is just too stupid to pick apart. These measures are not the same as slavery, and would actually protect those who the legacy of slavery still affect today.

Has the City Council ever patronized Asian-run businesses? They are ALL about cash. My acupuncturist has a lower list of payments for services if you pay cash. My local ramen place gives a "discount" if you pay cash. My local grocery store balks if you try to pay with credit if your order is under $15.

All this nonsense about no cash businesses is ridiculous.

R31: the issue is these businesses aren't asking for digital currency, they're asking for credit cards. If we had some form of digital currency that was not attached to a line of credit, perhaps it could work. That is not the state of America.

Lawmakers and policymakers are tasked with solving societal problems. Often, that requires saving people from themselves. That is the point of the democratic system- they were voted in as a sign of trust they could address such issues. You can't expect these individuals to lead and also hamstring their ability to regulate. This is not the type of legislation that tells you what to eat or what to do with your body- it simply protects Americans from an ever growing credit card debt problem they can't seem to curb. Would you let an addict cure himself?

Sweden is a little shit country with about 12 million people. I am so sick of comparisons to this sparsely populated country.

R23. Cryptocurrency. And, we will be there.

R36: not to mention they don't have the same issues with class/race as we do here. America is fairly unique in that West African slaves actually built it and Americans held on to slavery longer than European nations. You can't keep an entire segment of the population out of the economy for centuries and then expect Capitalism to serve them.

R37: crypto-currency, as in the currency almost exclusively reserved for white mega nerds who have the time/resources to "mine" for such currency? The same currency used mostly for illicit purchases?

That system is already massive unequal.

[quote] Sweden is a little shit country

says some ignorant magat from dumfukistan.

Sweden has the 2nd highest standard of living in the world. the "great" usa is #15

[quote][R30]: this was a load of nonsense. I feel this is correct, nobody said the lawmakers based their decision-making on feelings. Are you stupid?

No, but you clearly are. I was opining about YOUR feelings as the basis for your support of poor policy and laws.

[quote]Your second point is just too stupid to pick apart. These measures are not the same as slavery, and would actually protect those who the legacy of slavery still affect today.

You are moron if you think that the comparison that is being made is between the laws and slavery. Just how stupid are you? No wonder you base your ideas on "feelings" rather than actual solid decision making. That you think that the second point draws a line between slavery and these laws is a sad indictment of your basic grasp of reading.

How sad for you that you are insufficiently prepared for considering the complexities of modern life.

This is how we ended up where we are today politically with people voting their emotions, rather than sound policy. This is why people vote for candidates then whine about how they're now worse off than they were before.

[quote] the issue is these businesses aren't asking for digital currency, they're asking for credit cards.

Not necessarily. Most also take debit cards which are tied to bank accounts.

I could not help but think though that if some Trumpist implied that most poor people were POCs, that Woke Twitter™ would implode.

One other positive--it makes these cashless stores "stick-up robbery" proof--there's not cash in the cash register for anyone to steal. Which would seem to ultimately make them ideal for poor neighborhoods with high crime rates.

Most restaurants and retail stores don’t make a lot of money: typically just a few percentage points off each sale. Repeat customers keep them in business.

When they come into a store Visa and MasterCard typically set their fees at a level roughly equal to the store’s profit. (Higher margined stores get a slight break.)

But most stores are forced to raise their prices in order to reachieve the profitability they had [bold] before [/bold] they started accepting plastic.

And, when prices go up everybody, cash [italic] and [/italic] credit customers, pay more for everything, thanks to MasterCard and Visa.

CostCo is a members only club, which extends to their only gas station on Staten Island.

You can pay cash for gas at Costco.

What R35?

[quote]the issue is these businesses aren't asking for digital currency, they're asking for credit cards. If we had some form of digital currency that was not attached to a line of credit, perhaps it could work. That is not the state of America.

They are not asking for credit cards only. Debit and pre-paid cards function exactly the same. The only places that I know of that request credit cards are car rentals and hotels, and they usually can accommodate a debit card if you talk to them first.

Not only are they not asking for credit cards, any business with a brain would prefer debit/pre-paid as the swipe fees are lower.

Lastly, anyone can get a pre-paid Visa gift card and use that. No SS required.

R41: OK, you are truly stupid. You yourself said "feelings" aren't a way to make decisions, clearly speaking on those in charge of making the regulation. Unless you're stupid enough to think I came up with the law? My own feelings had no effect on the "decision-making." Don't backtrack now.

You must have graduated from a state school. Your points are incoherent. YOU brought up slavery in this thread, clearly drawing the comparison between this set of "paternalistic laws" and slavery. You strike me as Trumpian.

Yes, it's not just credit cards that are accepted, it's also debit cards. Who the fuck doesn't have a debit card in 2020? Lots of businesses now take payments by phone, but that's probably too mind-blowing for the elders to handle.

R46: those are fair points. You're not taking into account that debit card accounts are frequently overdrawn and that to get a prepaid Visa you'd have to buy one and that brings the additional cost of the transaction (taxes at the register.) You're essentially suggesting those who can't afford credit cards to pay MORE to eat there just because... it's easier for the business?

R40 You stupid turd. I lived in Gothenberg, an awful backwater, provincial place where it is impossible to find a job unless you are from there.

They stick all non whites far from the town center, so no one has to interact with them.

Yes, R39. Those. Ya. Give it a bit.

Who has money in NYC other than the ultra rich?

What about cubicle restaurants? You order on an iPad and then you go to a numbered cubicle. The cubicle opens up and you get your food. And also Robot Cafes where a robot barista prepares your drink. How are those unmanned places going to accept cash?

SF has both the cubicle restaurants and robo cafes. Are they all shut down now because of this new law?

Since the new law only covers NYC, that is highly unlikely.

Let’s keep passing more laws so “undocumented” aka criminals can have a more convenient life.

r53 people who don't have debit/credit cards aren't the types who would go to those restaurants in the first place.

[quote] You must have graduated from a state school.

R41, proud graduate of the (private) Gwynedd Mercy University in Gwynedd Valley, PA

Clearly, a school that looks better on a resume than UVa, Cal, Michigan, Texas or UCLA

SMH

I think we should ban Chanel and Gucci because their average price items are so high POC and undocumented can’t afford them.

R55, you’re an idiot and is the one who needs to learn to read. The NYC law joins New Jersey, San Francisco and Philadelphia, dumbass!

R49 there are no taxes to purchase a pre-paid card. There's an activation fee and that's it.

My understanding was that legally cash has to be accepted everywhere--that it is the legal tender of the nation, and cannot be refused for goods or services rendered.

[quote]You must have graduated from a state school. Your points are incoherent. YOU brought up slavery in this thread, clearly drawing the comparison between this set of "paternalistic laws" and slavery. You strike me as Trumpian.

I was once waiting for a friend in a bar with another one of his friends.

We got into a discussion during which I made a point starting by saying, "if it were x, then you'd see y and z."

We kept going back and forth during which I repeated multiple times, "I'm not saying it IS x, I'm saying IF it were X..." and kept clarifying that I was making a conditional argument.

He kept insisting I was contradicting myself by saying "it's X" to which I kept repeating, "No, I'm saying it it WERE X, the y and z. But, since it's obviously NOT X, then not y and z."

I finally suggested we drop it because I realized that he had no idea what the conditional tense or conditional argument was and every time I tried, we returned to his insisting I was contradicting myself by saying "it's X." He fundamentally could not parse the discussion, and I was not ever going to be able to explain it to him.

r47. since I know you will not draw the correct conclusion from why I just told that story, I'm simply going to suggest we just drop the discussion and return to responding to others, but not each other.

When the Chi-Comms take over the US and start rationing electricity, you'll be begging to use cash! Your silly cards won't work with no electricity!

[quote]You can pay cash for gas at Costco.

No, you cannot. Nor at Sam's Club.

....

Cashless businesses on the rise?

Maybe its because half the cashiers in the country can't make change for a dollar!

[quote] Maybe its because half the cashiers in the country can't make change for a dollar!

Even when the machine TELLS them what change to give back!

Woah. I was just recently rolling this development around in my head after a few cashless pastry/coffee boutiques opened around me. And the argument was the same: it is discriminatory. Also that legal tender in the United States should never be denied at any point-of-sale, as it degrades our currency system.

I was highly bemused when one shop (overpriced but tasty) was cashless, but the workers still had a tip cup on the front counter :)))

[quote] How are those unmanned places going to accept cash?

Maybe the same way vending machines already do?

[quote] When the Chi-Comms take over the US and start rationing electricity, you'll be begging to use cash! Your silly cards won't work with no electricity!

But then neither will the cash register to ring up the sale, so they won’t take cash either.

[quote] I was highly bemused when one shop (overpriced but tasty) was cashless, but the workers still had a tip cup on the front counter :)))

That's kind of dumb since you can easily leave a tip with a debit card.

There are a handful of places I've been, mostly restaurants, where you can't leave the tip on the card.

It's called capitalism. Businesses should be able to do whatever they want as long as it's not discriminatory based on a protected class.

So how does this work for something like Uber or Lyft? People have complained that it's discriminatory against people who don't have smart phones (e.g., a lot of seniors, who could actually use the service.)

[quote]Sweden has the 2nd highest standard of living in the world. the "great" usa is #15

Sick to death of these comparisons. Sweden can spend so much money on quality of life because, like most western countries, it exists in a world in which the peace is kept by the US military. The Swedes spend only 1% of their GDP on defense, which is a completely pathetic amount. Why don't they spend more? Because they don't have to.

Take a look at a country like Turkey or India which is not as directly in the US orbit, and actually has to see to its own defense. They spend two or three times as much, and as they are much larger countries, they should be spending less proportionately, due to economies of scale.

Hhjjk

Srsly R72 and R73? Most of those places use Square, whose interface pops up a "how much do you want to tip" screen before you sign with the virtual pen or your finger.

IIRC, there have been threads on DL about the ethics of having someone staring at you at that juncture when all they are doing is filling up a coffee cup for you.

After living through Super Storm Sandy, I ALWAYS carry cash. The diners were open because they cook with gas but, without the credit card machines, you had to have cash. The diners had electricity so they could ring things up but no access to run the machines.

Late last year, the internet in our office building cafeteria was out so they couldn't accept credit or debit cards. The line at the ATM was more than 12 people deep and quickly ran out of cash to dispense. People looked lost! One person simply had to suggest they go OUT for lunch. You should have seen everyone's faces! They looked so relieved!! Some of the youngsters were truly thinking they would't be able to eat lunch. Geniuses!

You know you're a thousand years old when you call people "youngsters"

I prefer the term "whippersnappers" myself.

Or you can do what most people do:

Keep somewhere between $300 and $500 cash in the bottom of a drawer somewhere for the next time a hurricane hits, and take out $100 every few months to keep in your wallet for those times you actually need cash.

Pay for everything else with a card, preferably an Apple Watch. (TJ, WF, CVS, Walgreens all take Apple Watch, there aren't that many brick and mortar stores I regularly shop at.)

Forgot to mention that I have kept my credit cards my phone for a few years now. Whenever I bring it up to guys half my age that they should do so when they travel I'm often met with "WUT? That's a [italic]thing[/italic]?"

r79, same with me. And it was also the same a few years ago when Lower Manhattan was plunged into darkness because Con Ed's equipment is older than Moses.

I was able to go to pizza places that cooked with wood burning ovens. And pay cash.

[quote] Forgot to mention that I have kept my credit cards my phone for a few years now. Whenever I bring it up to guys half my age that they should do so when they travel I'm often met with "WUT? That's a thing?"

Probably because they, like me, have no idea what you’re trying to say.

Sorry, I hadn't realized that I had mistyped it missing the word "on my phone." These kiddies are only vaguely aware of Apple pay, Google pay, Samsung pay was my point.

Then you are hanging out with the wrong people.

Everyone I know uses Apple Pay on their watch or phone and pays each other back with Venmo

Let's see, I was going to make up some quaint little story with specific details to show how my Samsung pay is superior to Apple pay. How I was out with my friends at some cool joint and their Apple pay would not work.

Then I would fit in just perfectly with you tired old queens who make up bullshit for some type of twisted validation that your imaginary lives are so much better than those of your opponents.

Looking at you, YMF.

Most people I know under 40 use their phones to pay whenever that option is available.

I really dont get people who use ApplePay, Venmo etc. It's just another layer of fees and loss of privacy so that you can access cash that is coming from your bank account.

Fees for the merchant, I can't say R90, but loss of privacy? Apple Pay (and I suspect Google Wallet) transactions are encrypted. That is the selling point. Yes, your credit card company knows where you shopped, but they always did.

Apple isn't collecting this data.

I wouldn't be surprised if Apple is taking a cut of the swipe fee, but they would just be taking a share of the CC processor or the bank's cut. The net cost to the merchant (and certainly not the consumer) isn't more.

That is absolutely not true R62.

Drive down to your local IRS office and try to pay your taxes in cash.

They will show you the door and tell you to get a money order.

r35 sorry, not american. Here you can have a full bank account on your phone, no card needed other than an app to work as a credit card. That's ore of what I was thinking about.

R92, what goods or services rendered would the IRS be providing?

r91, and despite all that encryption they've all been hacked. I really do understand why millennials are always broke.

The entirety of defense, health and human services, highways, ten million other things R94.

Taxes are a direct exchange of money for services. You can argue that it is a bad deal on the taxpayers part (and I would agree in a lot of instances), but taxes are definitely a payment for services rendered.

I kind of wonder if this is why many government agencies don't like to take credit cards (or do it through a 3rd party) besides the swipe fee. No opportunity for charge backs.

Venmo is great when you have to pay for services, need to send someone money for whatever reason, etc. Even my cleaning lady takes Venmo.

What happens when systems go down, computers get hacked. You’re fucked.

No R98, you just walk.

Your scenario has happened to me twice in the past 6 months at Kroger. Their systems went down. Cash, check or nothing.

I parked my cart and went to Safeway.

AmEx does not charge the consumer for using Apple Pay. No idea what banks do if it's a debit type transaction. And AmEx knows what you buy regardless of how you buy it and companies like Experian sell that data to marketers. But not sure why I care if a marketer knows I bought container of blueberries at Whole Foods.

As for Apple Pay, they even take it on NYC subways now. Much easier than Metrocard.

They are so fucking racist. Like black people can't do cashless systems? fuck them. Just say poor people and stop with the other bullshit.

The US always lags behind other first world countries when it comes to shit like this.

Granted, the US has an underclass of people that other first world countries couldn't even dream of having. So there's that.

What r9 said.

Cashless businesses are rare.

Cash ONLY businesses are all over New York and they piss me off.

R101, they aren't racist but you might be

Shocker, I agree with something they did.

“And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.”

[quote]“And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.”

I wish the fundie nutbags would make up their minds.

A few years back, this passage was used whenever barcodes were brought up.

[quote]Cash ONLY businesses are all over New York and they piss me off.

Me too. I want to say, "I pay my taxes, why don't you?"

The only cashless businesses I've encountered were hipster joints. Is it really the worst thing ever when businesses that exist for rich people ask for rich people payment?

R108

They also refuse to take cash because then they get to double dip from the ATM fees if you use their ATM. Pathologically dishonest businesses are a big reason why I couldn't stand living in New York.

^Same in resort areas. At the Jersey shore, all the Mom & Pop shops have ATM's. I'm 'a little' more tolerant of their tax dodging though, since they only have 3 months out of the year to make bank. But it is very annoying in 2020. Feels like a throw back to 1970. Just charge me a little more and get automated FFS. You look like like someone who really shouldn't own a business at all if you have to run it like an 8 year old kid with a lemonade stand and a shoe box full of cash.

stupid idea, cash involves risk of robbery and theft. I never choose to use cash

It also seems like these policies are based on what what meaning upper middle class white liberals THINK poor people want or need.

Lower income people most certainly have smart phones and ability to get debit cards not associated with banks. Hello snap?

The whole thing seems so condescending as if poor people cannot be trusted to manage money.

I haven't read the whole thread, which already gets me a kick in the ass.

i'm a a relatively poor person.

i{I know

.

^^Are you having a stroke? Do you smell burnt toast?

A cashless society is dangerous. The same goes for everyone’s medical files being digitized and if we move away from printed books. It would be so easy for foreign governments to shut all of it down.

R112 condescends to liberals by using a straw man argument

No one said poor people can't manage their money, just that they are less likely to have a bank account than rich people

I thought welfare benefits in New York are given via debit card anyway?

I avoid businesses that don't take credit cards, or gas stations that charge different prices for cash/credit. I want to get my rebate on every single purchase. I'm getting over $700 back this year on credit card rebates just from two cards. And I get much more on some that I cash in monthly.

There's a supermarket chain out here that doesn't take credit cards -- only cash or debit. I won't shop there. Their loss. Aldi is cheaper and they take any form of payment.

What do millennials stick in the g-string of a stripper to get a lap dance?

[quote]Aldi is cheaper and they take any form of payment.

Not to rent a shopping cart. It's a quarter or you have to schlep your groceries around the store in your arms.

[quote]Not to rent a shopping cart. It's a quarter or you have to schlep your groceries around the store in your arms.

So tacky. I won't shop at these places.

Perhaps this ban will give banks the incentive to issue a new kind of credit/debit card for poor people with whatever controls they need, but which will then allow the poor to participate in cashless businesses.

It is sadly ironic that rich people get all sorts of discounts for being good customers; while the poor, who really need the discounts the most, don’t qualify for them.

r22 personal responsibility is not relevant to credit cards. The credit card companies have spent decades fighting to jack up rates and prey on the poorest percentage of our population who don't often have options. its not really about credit cards though. as we see in major cities like Los Angeles, the hollowing out of the middle class over the Reagan era to today has resulted in most Americans having no savings whatsoever and credit card debt. But credit card companies are experts at keeping people broke. They study it. Just like you probably can't put down a bag of Doritos because the crunch has been tested to be the most satisfying amount of pressure possible, credit card companies manipulate consumers but in many cases, are simply the last line of money for those who have necessary expenses. i'm not talking about idiots who go on vacations with credit cards, i'm talking about people who have ER visits for health emergencies and then get stuck with a huge bill (maybe a few thousand dollars). Or someone who has a job and needs a car to get there and the car breaks down. or needs new brakes and tires even though the cost of the car plus insurance plus registration is already putting them in the hole. and that's before children and their needs.

[quote] or gas stations that charge different prices for cash/credit.

Fucking infuriating. Especially when they tout the lower price on the sign and in teeny-tiny letters that you can’t see from the road it says “cash.”

I don’t go to those stations either.

[quote]Perhaps this ban will give banks the incentive to issue a new kind of credit/debit card for poor people with whatever controls they need, but which will then allow the poor to participate in cashless businesses.

Banks have nothing to do with it. The poor just can't handle the responsibility. I live in NYC and Apple Bank (and other banks) offers a free checking account. All you need to open one is a mailing address and proof of who you are (ie drivers license).

I understand what the poor go through. For example, in NYC, it's difficult to buy a monthly Metrocard because some people can't pony up $135+ at one time. But as far as banks are concerned, there are some that are willing to work with the poor.

Took me all of 5 minutes to find a credit union that offers free checking in NYC as R125 said. Where I live there are multiple banks including Wells Fargo that will give them for free for a minimum monthly direct deposit of $500 in my city, as well as totally free credit unions.

Well, it's not really free if you have to deposit $500 a month....

[quote]Well, it's not really free if you have to deposit $500 a month....

You don't have to with Apple Bank.

Also, many banks offer a secured card. Put a specific amount (say $500) in an interest bearing account and they will give you a credit card with a $500 limit. It's an excellent way to build credit if you have no credit or poor credit.

The point is that there are already options available for low income people.

My hairdresser has no posted prices. Charges everyone a different rate. Only accepts cash tips. I'm ready to move on to a more professional salon.

All you have to do is deposit it R127. You can turn around and withdraw it the same day. Doesn't really cost the consumer anything.

[quote]You can turn around and withdraw it the same day.

Is the pirouette a requirement?

R128 - That's if you have an Apple Bank in your neighborhood. I love Apple Bank (been with them for over a decade) but they aren't the most convenient bank - even after they bought Emigrant. You have to be lucky enough to have one near your home or place of business.

I approve of the ban, even though I have access to credit. I understand why businesses go cashless but they do exclude a large section of society that don't use credit (or don't want to). Even I don't want to have to use my card everywhere I go. And there have been plenty of times when the telephone networks are down and credit cards can't be used (especially with Verizon!)

Good lord. Nobody is saying people should use credit cards. People can use debit cards. Gift cards. Prepaid cards.

Wells Fargo is the WORST bank in the world! Change to another bank! Just google why...

Never ever bank with this shit bank.

oh, if you're in NYC, many people were charged double for those contactless subway rides.

So fuck that shit.

R111, you are stupid. The robber can still make you go to ATM to withdraw money, happens all the time.

[quote] oh, if you're in NYC, many people were charged double for those contactless subway rides.

If anyone was expecting it to work correctly, then they must have just arrived in NYC that day. MTA is in the business to fuck over as many customers as they possibly can. They've been doing it for years. I think it's in their business model.