Volcano eruption in NZ off the North island: tourists missing

Terrifying video from a nearby tour boat. Not clear whether the people survived.

Terrifying but fascinating to see.

The people who were photographed standing in or near the crater will not have survived it. There's always been concern about tourists going there, but it was a big money making venture for tour operators.

Very sad.

I would be looking for them in the stratosphere or a bit higher.

Well, they got their Instagram moment, which is all anyone seems to care about anymore.

What was on their iPads?

"(You've Blown It All) Sky High" -- Jigsaw

"Eruption" -- Eddie Van Halen

Permanent Vacation — Aerosmith

"Poison Gas" by A Priori "In Pieces" Linkin Park

I hope Instagram influencers among the missing.

Blue Holiday — Aretha

"Ash Cloud" -- Sonic Radiation

Circle of Fire — Sam Phillips

Ring of Fire — Johnnie Cash

One Way Ticket -- Neil Sedaka

Last Holiday -- Smokey Robinson

Stay out of volcanoes, kids.

Up Up and Away

"White Island has been in a nearly continuous stage of releasing volcanic gas at least since it was sighted by James Cook in 1769."

"Hey, let's go there and walk around!"

"Two Tickets to Paradise"

One witness claims that they were on the first of 2 tour boats to the island. Their boat left shortly before the eruption. The second tour boat was apparently on the island at the time of the eruption.

[quote] Several news organization in New Zealand report that “many of those on the island were from a cruise ship visiting New Zealand, Ovation of the Seas . . . ”

[quote]Royal Caribbean advertises a “White Island Volcano Experience Cruise and Guided Exploration,” excursion number TR93, as one of its shore excursions for New Zealand, at a cost of USD $324.00 per adult. The cruise line promised “an unforgettable guided tour of New Zealand’s most active volcano …”

Which tour was on the island apparently has not yet been announced.

[quote]Royal Caribbean's 4,905-passenger Ovation of the Seas docked at the nearby Port of Tauranga this morning and it is understood that many of the missing tourists were from the ship, visiting White Island on a tour boat. Ovation of the Seas was due to depart this evening but instead will stay in Tauranga tonight.

[quote]A Royal Caribbean spokesperson told Cruise Critic: “We can confirm that a number of our guests were touring the island today. We do not have any additional details to share at this time. Ovation of the Seas will remain overnight until we learn more about the situation. We will offer all possible assistance to our guests and local authorities. Please keep all those affected in your prayers.”

My partner works in Tauranga - he saw heaps of Ambulances with massive covered trailers racing off to Whakatane (where the recovery port is).

If they were speeding hopefully that means survivors.

The clip taken through the ship window looks like there were pyroclastic flows at ground level, and that would mean no survivors in those areas.

RIP, unlucky people.

Royal Caribbean's gonna get coal in its stocking this Christmas! I can only IMAGINE the lawsuits being written and filed as I write this.

Oh Nooos

I'm on that cruise ship in March 2020.

Latest update is 5 who made it to shore are confirmed dead and no sign of life anywhere on the island. Still too dangerous for any teams to go there physically.

Dying on vacation in a volcano is certainly a downer, OP.

They will probably be only to identify most of the dead by those that are not accounted for.

Cruise shipping is a dangerous proposition as of late.

[R23] They would have signed a disclaimer when they went on the boat ride to White Island. If something happens to you while you are off the ship that's not Royal Caribbean's fault.

I’ve been there and it was a completely fascinating trip. It was like nothing I'd seen before. I’m positive we were told that the volcano is continuously monitored and the day tour we were on would *not* run if there was even a hint of activity. They also said that about the weather affecting the boat taking us to the island, so I wonder how this activity wasn’t predicted.

We wore gas masks on the island as the fumes were so foul, so it’s not like we didn’t know what we were doing was slightly dangerous. I feel incredibly sorry for those people.

T-shirt idea : My dad went to New Zealand and all I got was this f****** hospital bill for his third degree burns.

I wonder what it feels like too be burned alive. It's not that instant. People don't like to talk about that part. People in Pompeii were found in fetal positions so they had some time to do that. I mean your skin melting, your eyes being torched hot choking fumes down your throat. So much pain you cant even scream. All I can think about is that pilot that ISIS captured a few years ago. They put him in a cage, soaked in gasoline and set him on fire while they filmed it. That guy was still moving and struggling while his face was melting off.

How did some people make it to the coast but still die? I assume they had gas masks per what I've seen others say about the tour. Were the masks not enough?

R33 They probably had serious burns all over their bodies and went into shock and died.

[R32], don't let's be beastly to the Muslims! Vile, seriously vile. The only religious belief system that would shatter if Craigslist stopped allowing personal ads for Men Seeking Goats.

Ze masks... zey do nutting!

If that tour was recommended and booked for the tourists by Royal Caribbean then I think they could be liable, they have to check whether the tours they supply for customers are safe.

Just watch as they try every useless way of searching and only at the end will they send in the eagles.

I empathize with them. I've had a few vacations ruined by a cold.

It’s difficult to feel compassion for someone privileged enough to visit an island off the coast of New Zealand. It’s like how I felt about the Channel Island, California boat fire some months ago. There’s suffering children in the world that deserve our empathy, not these rich assholes.

You don't need to be well off to visit a volcano, I'm a perfectly ordinary person and I've been to three.

R41 - can you name the three volcanos?

^Nina, Pinta and the Santa Maria

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

R43 - LOL coffee is spit out

Database listing names of possible missing which is also being used to keep track of those who have been accounted for and are alive.

"They would have signed a disclaimer when they went on the boat ride to White Island. If something happens to you while you are off the ship that's not Royal Caribbean's fault. "

Those standard disclaimers aren't enough to protect a company, in the event of a shitshow on this level. People still win millions, and in a case like this, they should. If people were on the island when it blew, that means somebody wasn't paying enough attention to seismic reports, or the people in charge of safety weren't getting enough data in to offer a reasonable level of safety to the paying customers.

Downunder sissies

R42 Santorini, Etna and Vesuvius, I was never given any warnings before going up these volcanos.

Visitors can be seen inside the crater photographed just before the eruption.

The camera went dark after this so there are no subsequent photos.

":How did some people make it to the coast but still die? "

One of the clips of the eruption showed what looked like pyroclastic flow clouds along the coast, below the main ash cloud. If I'm right and that's where the people were then there's absolutely no hope they're alive. A pyroclastic flow is a cloud of superheated gas and ash that travels along the ground at high speed, any living being caught in one will be poisoned by the gas before the heat and suffocation get them.

But the people in the crater itself... well, it had to be quick.

R31 Oh honey, being a civilised country we have a free health care system.

Do we know if any men who escort were injured or killed?

I would guess most victims weren’t in crater and they died by smoke inhalation. Those on Crater prob had the quickest deaths. Imagine being on the coast but not getting on a boat and then seeing the cloud of smoke ok’ing towards you? I guess some might have chosen to drown then wait for cloud of smoke?

Latest reports say 23 people were rescued from the island by other tour boats near the island shortly after the explosion. 5 have died so far. The other 18 all have injuries / serious burns. There were an additional 27 people on the island who have not been accounted for.

My God this is going to give me nightmares.

This is why I don’t go hiking inside an active volcano.

R40 types trailer park.

Well! No wonder I already had R40 on "ignore"!

Wow, I did too, r59. What an insufferable cunt. There's a reason to block some people.

BUMP

[quote]T-shirt idea : My dad went to New Zealand and all I got was this f****** hospital bill for his third degree burns.

It's New Zealand - nobody gets hospital bills here.

R33 Some will have had crush injuries from flying rocks, others respiratory injuries from the fumes and then there was also extensive burns. I'm sure more will die in hospital from their injuries and many apparently had burns to 90% of their bodies. There were also already dead bodies put on the evacuation boats.

Up in smoke, the lot of them.

The people on the crater were comparatively lucky: death was instantaneous.

The people with third degree burns all over their body: I cannot imagine the hell they are in right now. You almost hope they will die because their suffering will be so bad and their lives will be so ruined even if they survive.

I will never, ever, ever visit an active volcano.

R40 Way to engage in classism by assigning levels of sympathy to show based upon how much of a "rich asshole" a person is. Basic compassion should be extended to people regardless of how much they make. I feel more empathy for those less fortunate/ poor, but I certainly don't rescind any sort of empathy towards a suffering person just because they have more money. I've taken care of dying, sick patients to know and feel that way, you don't place value on life and alleviation of suffering based upon $$$ and that goes both ways.

I hope the missing were at least virgins.

Omg.

Five are now dead. More to follow.

Half of the missing passengers are Australian.

Awful and frightening.

Sydney Morning Herald has good coverage.

Some of those who had been listed as missing are known to be alive, including the honeymooners mentioned above, as well as 3 others.

They are trying to get identifications of those who are currently in the hospitals.

The honeymooners are in critical condition with the husband having third degree burns over 90% of his body. :(

R72 - link, please.

I've hiked on one of the world's most dangerous active volcano (Krakatoa). Yes, it was risky, but your odds of being there during an eruption are relatively low. It was worth it.

[quote]All I can think about is that pilot that ISIS captured a few years ago. They put him in a cage, soaked in gasoline and set him on fire while they filmed it. That guy was still moving and struggling while his face was melting off.

WTF?

[quote]I've hiked on one of the world's most dangerous active volcano (Krakatoa)

Which little piggy did you break? I hope not the one who had roast beef!

yASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS INCINERATION

R72. Apparently there were at least 2 honeymooning couples involved.

The couple from the USA were badly injured.

The couple from Australia (mentioned in a post above) are listed as "safe".

I will never in my goddamn life understand why people go visit volcanoes, for the same reason I'll never understand why people go scuba diving in shark filled waters. If you're thinking out your vacation plan, and you stop and think "would the main character in a thriller/horror movie do this at the beginning of their movie?" and the answer is yes it's time to plan a new vacation.

The relatives of all the people with terrible burns should pray for their deaths. Modern medicine will keep them alive just to suffer agonies for years and years.

I don't get it either R79. My idea of a holiday is taking it easy with a drink and a hammock under a palm tree and some museum sightseeing.

"Darling, let's spend our honeymoon visiting an active volcano."

R75:

I can't watch that R83. Too horrible. Those people are not human.

R84 - they may not be “human” but they are effective in getting attention!!

R73 look in our nz newspapers for that kind of information - I don't have time to find it for you.

Most of the sharks that frequent reefs won't harm you. I've snorkelled alongside 4 foot sharks in the Maldives, and those hoes are more scared of me than I am of them.

They knew the risks and they still went there. It’s not “tragic.” A tsunami or earthquake with no warning is “tragic.” These volcano victims got what they deserved.

It was a planned excursion from a cruise ship. So it wasn't like they all sought out a trip to the volcano. It was one option for an activity that was available everytime the cruise shipped docked. Likely people on board felt pretty safe given it was all organized by the cruise company.

It seems there were three tours (boats) on the island from the ship. One group was at the crater (all died), one group was walking back to the dock to leave (injured/burned/died), and the third group had just gotten back on their boat (safe) . A lot of survivor guilt as likely it was fairly random as to who went in which group.

R74, have you read Krakatoa by Simon Winchester? Learned so much from it.

N, R90, but I'll look for it. Fascinating place, and it's well on it's way toward doing it again. When I was there, Anak Krakatau (the newly-rising cone island in the center of the crater) was maybe about 250 ft high and growing at 22 feet/year. It collapsed and caused a tsnuami last year, so it's back to about 400 ft now.

[quote] I don't have time to find it for you.

Then it didn't happen.

Are your fingers painted on? Talk about fucking lazy.

Toss another shrimp on the barbie.

Or five. Maybe eight.

Not sure how hungry I am.

"The honeymooners are in critical condition with the husband having third degree burns over 90% of his body. :( "

He will not survive. Sorry.

Yeah, pretty much clear. The bride only had 20% on the lower half of her body so looks like she'll be a widow. Very sad.

Linda the Comanche Psychic saw a big boom in the reading she did 2 days ago.

The American honeymooner guy called his mom from the hospital and sounds lucid and very articulate. He left her a voice message and you wouldn't know from his voice that he has any injuries. I am sure his life is still at risk but maybe the injuries are not as severe or as extensive as described.

Why do people visit live volcanoes and scuba dive with sharks? Well speaking as someone who's visited a lot of live volcanoes and scuba dived with sharks, it's because I LOVE volcanoes and the undersea world! And what the hell is life for, if you don't do the things you love.

If your idea of fun is visiting art museums, wouldn't you visit the art museums you wanted to see if there was a one-in-a-billion chance it'd explode while you were there? Hell, if you drive on a freeway to see an art museum, then you're probably taking a bigger risk than anyone who visits volcanic islands.

Latest reports say 5 confirmed dead (including 2 tour guides), 8 remain in critical condition, and 8 remain missing.

R99 I agree with you about adventure however it seems as though in this case the tour company was told that it was getting too dangerous. However their company had sold tours through the cruise line and obviously losing all that profit is hard on a small company and may also irritate the cruise ship who has sold this excursion to passengers.

Apparently the level was still level 2 but the activity had increased significantly in the last week and a number of warnings had gone out. The cruise ship passengers were apparently advised of the warnings but the tours went ahead regardless.

I climbed an active volcano in central america and the gasses at the top almost knocked me out. I can't imagine what it would be like during an explosion.

I'd really like to know what kind of monitoring was in place. The place was known to be a live volcano, and was a common tourist destination. There HAD to be vulcanologists monitoring the place, with equipment on the island that could give notice of any increase in tremors or gas levels? And There HAD to be some way to communicate danger levels to the tourist ships?

I've been to Volcanoes National Park in Hawaii, and flown over the lava lake and lava flows in a helicopter, and poked around steaming craters and watched red lava flowing into the sea... just like millions of others. I knew damn well it wasn't completely safe (no fun activities are 100% safe), but I also knew that the place is a vulcanologist's nirvana and monitored out the wazoo. Was White Island the same? Because you'd think it would be, if they let so many tourists visit.

[quote]There HAD to be vulcanologists monitoring the place, with equipment on the island that could give notice of any increase in tremors or gas levels?

Apparently that's possible with lava eruptions but is much harder with steam eruptions like this one. And on the scale of volcanic eruptions this was not as major as, say, Mt St Helens, so it was harder to predict.

[quote] Why do people visit live volcanoes and scuba dive with sharks? Well speaking as someone who's visited a lot of live volcanoes and scuba dived with sharks, it's because I LOVE volcanoes and the undersea world! And what the hell is life for, if you don't do the things you love.

Or is at least until you're killed, or 80% of your body is covered in third-degree burns!

Damn it, R102, circumstances dictate that I remain an armchair traveler, but I’m jealous!

The tour companies rolled the dice and lost.

So many ways to die on a cruise holiday. Incinerated by a volcano, overdose on G, be dropped out a window by your drunken granddad.

I understand why they do it, R79. I would do it; it would be fascinating. In fact, I have done it in that I visited Mount St Helens (twice, actually), although I got no closer to the crater than the nearest Park Service Visitor Center.

Tomorrow, there will be thousands of people visiting volcanoes all around the world. They’ll be fine. Terrible disasters, like this one, happen occasionally. Life itself is a risk.

You might as well ask why anyone would get on an airplane, given that they sometimes crash.

[quote] overdose on G,

We've all overdosed on G

I never once wanted to get real near a volcano. Those people died a horrible death.

The place IS monitored but according to the scientists, although the activity had gotten worse, there is no way to predict that particular type of volcano. You only get a few seconds warning which isn't enough.

Horrific

I've been to volcanoes on three continents and one island chain. I've been to the volcanic part of the Andes, climbed a couple of officially live peaks in the Cascades, seen close-up lava flows in Hawaii, visited a dozen geyser basins, and walked on the warm sands of Deception Island on the Antarctic Peninsula. Next up is Iceland, I hope!

I'm still here, and some of you are nervous nellies who don't understand relative risks!

If you're not interested in volcanoes, don't go. If you are, DO go. But don't be weenies about it all.

Here is a story about a man and his daughter who were nearby when the incident happened. They helped administer first aid. He says everyone he saw was badly burned and he believes many of them could not survive.

Perhaps a blessing

That’s what I thought when I read that, R115. Hopefully they died instantly.

Is there any way we can blame this on Trump?

[quote]So many ways to die on a cruise holiday. Incinerated by a volcano, overdose on G, be dropped out a window by your drunken granddad.

All would probably be preferable to going on an Atlantis cruise.

At least some of the people here have visited Yellowstone, and are completely unaware that it is the gimongous crater of one of the world's largest volcanoes and is still active. That's why there are geysers everywhere, and mudpots, and places where you can't walk on the surface but must use elevated walkways (the ground is too hot and unstable to walk on). I live nearly 500 miles away, and I still get nervous at the thought that it might erupt sometime in my lifetime, even though the prevailing winds would probably send most of the ash cloud in another direction.

[quote][[R32]], don't let's be beastly to the Muslims! Vile, seriously vile. The only religious belief system that would shatter if Craigslist stopped allowing personal ads for Men Seeking Goats.

You bigoted POS, a fucking terrorist organization burned him alive, not a billion fucking Muslims.

Why is this post even allowed to remain? Can't there be one fucking thread on this site free of assholes like you? Muriel, can't you just flush people like this?

R119, the first time I went there, many years ago, there was a walkway, like a boardwalk, but no rail. And sometimes puffs of steam or smoke would drift across the walkway, rendering the edge invisible. I saw that and I couldn’t believe it. Miss the edge, and you could go right off. Nothing would stop you.

I was used to other national parks that were newer. I’d never seen anything like that. It seemed like an accident waiting to happen.

It was over $200 for an adult ticket. That seems overpriced for the experience.

It's been a hell of a decade.

#BoomBoomBoom

Seems the Earth can't get a break from natural disasters. NZ is a progressive country. I feel for New Zealanders.

I visited Kilauea. I trust the scientists to know when it is and isn’t safe. In this case scientists said there was elevated risk. People with money at stake shouldn’t be the ones deciding whether or not it is safe to visit.

r119, Yellowstone is a mega volcano overdue for a massive explosion at any time. Tomorrow or a few hundred years. When it blows, the winds will blow generally west to east and destroy the country.

When I worked at Yellowstone, that was one of the first things they told us at orientation. If the caldera blows up, we'll be the lucky ones, because it'll be over very soon for us -- lol!

Are there any contingency plans for when Yellowstone blows or will Europe have to take you all in as refugees too?

The sad part is the press is reporting New Zealand is west of Java

[quote]It’s like how I felt about the Channel Island, California boat fire some months ago. There’s suffering children in the world that deserve our empathy, not these rich assholes.

Those people were not rich, and channel islands is only about a hours boat ride from the coast. 40 people on a tiny boat all sleeping in cramped bunks is defiantly not what rich people do. It was not some super yacht or cruise ship with private rooms and gourmet chefs. Practically a fishing vessel.

When does the movie come out?

I would love to watch the movie about this. Give some background on the victims and create some empathy for them. Because as of now I don’t know the victims therefore don’t care one bit.

Crispy critters.

I know that if I was one of The surviving burn victims, I’d go on the Ellen Degeneres show and tell a sob story so I could get one of those $25,000 checks. I would milk it for all I could!!

Helicopter pilots who went in to pick up survivors...

[quote] “I descended down into the crater, down to 200ft,” Law said. “We could see people very easily from the air. They were lying down or spreadeagled. We were looking for somewhere we could land that would not be a big problem. The dust is very acidic and that’s not good for the engines.

[quote] “The burns were horrific,” he said. “A lot of the people could not talk. It was pretty quiet. The only real words were things like, ‘help’. They were covered in ash and dust. We were picking them up and skin was coming off in our hands.”

[quote] Law and his colleagues loaded five people into each of their helicopters and another two into a third private machine which had followed them out.

[quote] Law said he would fly back immediately to recover the eight victims who remain on the island while police wait for clearance from experts to return. “It’s a bureaucracy,” he said. “I would get the bodies now if I was allowed.”

R119 Well, if Yellowstone blew the Earth would be uninhabitable and humanity would be extinct. So "winds" wouldn't matter as the ash clouds would cover the sun and everything would die.

R99 Yep dead right!

R78 If they survive their sickness and in health vows will be surely tested.

R139, wedding vows have no basis in law.

Pliny the Elder was fascinated with the Mount Vesuvius eruption, so he took a boat towards the eruption. He has no clue how vast the damage could be. He disappeared.

I’ve recently learned that the experts rename volcanos after they erupt. Ex., Krakatoa has a newer name, now. Also, volcanos, (and tsunamis) can be vastly more severe than we plan for.

Sky News report on the victims

9/11 survivor Lauren Manning was severely burned like some of these people. Most of them will probably be in medically induced comas for months while the recovery process starts. She didn't know the Twin Towers collapsed until November 2001 when she was taken out of comatose state.

DID NOT DRUNK REPUBLICANS FROM ALABAMA GO ?

^^ ANY

R143, that is a staggering article and I thank you for posting it.

Sadly he will never be this hot again. Burns to 80% of his body.

Look at R143 's article R147

My hunch is that most people couldn’t survive burns over 80% or more of their body.

Probably true, but Lauren Manning in the article above had burns over 82.5% of her body. My guess is she had a few really important advantages: in good health, had a very supportive family and a young kid to take care of. Her husband was really supportive. He wrote a book with her about it.

She had a lot of skin grafts and a very slow road to recovery. My guess is that older, likely unfit people might not make it. She said in that article, when she was able to walk a short distance, people in the hospital applauded. She was very determined.

I feel bad for these people, but I mean, what do you expect? It's not like this was some sort of random, unpredictable travesty. They visited an active volcano. It's like when Steven Irwin died and we were supposed to pretend it was some unforeseeable, unpreventable tragedy, as if he hadn't spent most of his career sticking a camera in the face of dangerous animals. When you tap dance on bear traps and one snaps shut and fucks your leg up it can't be called surprising.

Yeah I can’t come up with any sympathy for these people. I just would not hike an active volcano. I’m an educated person and take calculated risks. This is not one I would take. I hope the people that took this risk and got permanently disfigured are ok with what happened to them, because we don’t care. We hope they can afford the care it takes to support them, but it’s ultimately their responsibility.

This was not a rare, off the beaten path activity. 18,000 tourists visited the volcano last year. It is a cruise ship excursion.

These aren't people who were out looking for danger. They read a brochure about a popular excursion and went on it.

I would absolutely do this kind of thing. Although, I’m assuming that it was relatively quiet when they headed towards the volcano. Who expects a quiet volcano to erupt? And who knows the odds of various volcano behavior?

Hawaiian volcanos have lava that is not very viscous. I forget the antonym for viscous. They don’t have unexpected, explosive eruptions because the lava just flows.

Likewise, there’s a county in California that has a lot of the material that makes-up talcum powder, in their ground. That county doesn’t have abrupt earthquakes, though the earth does move as much as it does in surrounding counties. It’s just that the talcum powder causes the rocks to slide past each other in small, frequent movements, under little pressure.

At least the honeymooners aren't horribly disfigured AND single.

^a reference to the farce, “Airplane”.

Is it? Not intentionally as I've never watched it.

[quote] Medical supplies have been arriving from Australia to help treat the injured, including one square metre of skin.

[quote] ...health officials in Auckland.

[quote]They say that due to the scale of burns they’re dealing with, they require 120 square metres of skin. This has been ordered from the United States.

[quote] I would absolutely do this kind of thing.

Lotsa luck!

[quote]...120 square metres of skin

If my calculations are correct, that makes it close to 400 square feet of skin (for those of us not on the metric system).

R40 Why do you assume that the people visiting the island were rich and privileged?

I get it - you’re an American who has never left your home town. Let alone your home state. Let alone your country.

Your comments are hateful and fucking stupid. Pretty apt description of you, I imagine.

[quote]Yeah I can’t come up with any sympathy for these people.

r161, It's comments like these that remind me that some people posting here are degenerates.

New Zealand and Australia have universal health care, you halfwit, R152.

Don’t assume that all countries are as uncivilised as yours.

R161 Many of our schools have trips to the Island for geography class

R161 Many of our schools have trips to the Island for geography class

The chance of a volcano erupting while you are there is very small compared to dying on an icy road or being electrocuted in your home (or In the US) being shot.

I'm a fraidy cat who thinks all bats and strange dogs I encounter are likely to have rabies, but I certainly have visited volcanoes and would do so again.

[quote] [R40] Why do you assume that the people visiting the island were rich and privileged?

I'm not the person you're addressing, but I'll bite.

Poor people do not take cruises to New Zealand.

Tells of helping victims when tour boat turned back to help the victims...

[quote] While some could speak, others "couldn't do anything but scream in pain".

R151 I don't think one can compare these people to idiot Steven Irwin.

There are of course risks with where these people visited (an active volcano) but they were more likely to be killed by a car in New Zealand crossing the road than killed at the volcano crater.

Burns are incredibly painful, the treatment and healing process is awful, and the scarring is painful as well even after it has all healed.

Personally I would rather die instantly than have 80% of my body burned.

That article says that 27 people have more than 30% of their body burned. They are also still on airway support due to the damage done by the gases and chemicals. So in addition to the horror of the burns, there is also likely significant lung damage.

As much as we think of death as the worst outcome in any major tragedy, I often think that sometimes those who survive but with severe injuries and chronic pain have the worst outcome.

I also would rather die than live with the suffering and the aftermath of 80% burns.

My 4 bedroom house is 130 square metres so 125m2 is a lot of skin grafts!

An adult human body has approx 1.8 square metres of skin

So what would a person with that severe amount of burning even look like?

Here's a 90% example

95%...

The fact they can't even identify whether the victims are male or female means it's very dire.

The tour guides who went back to the island in dinghies to rescue the injured, and the people who administered first aid on the tour boats are the very best the human race has to offer.

This guy is amazing

Is it real skin they ordered from America or was it grown in a laboratory?

R167 How do you know that? You do know that people other than Americans take cruises, right? I’m Australian and taking a cruise across the Tasman Sea to one of our nearest neighbours isn’t exactly expensive. It’s a very middle class thing, trust me.

Ovation of the Seas............more like Cremation on the Seas.

"City of Dust" by Siouxie and the Banshees

Hot and burning in your nostrils Pouring down your gaping mouth Your molten bodies blanket of cinders Caught in the throes

R31 My Mum went to NZ and all I got was her ashes.

I hope they ordered the right skin. Imagine the trauma of waking up black.

White Island eruption: mayor of Whakatāne wants tours to eventually resume (WTF) $$$$$$$$$

Yeah, I'd rather die than spend the rest of my life severely burned like that. It'd be a miserable existence, like spending the rest of your life being paralyzed from the neck down.

Paralyzed would be better than burned actually. At least you are not in permanent exculpating pain and can pass as normal in a wheelchair.

R181 is delusional. There is no middle class.

For some reason privileged white people love pretending like they’re not privileged.

I can’t tell you the number of times a white person making over 100k complains about being poor. They truly believe it to.

Look at Daisy Riddle. The lead of the new Star Wars movies who grew up rich yet in a recent interview, she claims she doesn’t benefit from privilege.

White people are so spoiled, that even being wealthy isn’t enough.

Once stable enough, some victims are to be airlifted to Australia burn units.

All New Zealand burn units are full.

Stories and photos of some of the victims are appearing.

Among them were three young people (2 missing, 1 survived but later died) were part of a group of 9 friends "taking a holiday together".

Just white people? Racist much?

[quote]^^I can’t tell you the number of times a white person making over 100k complains about being poor. They truly believe it to. ^^

No, R191 - I’m not delusional. R181 here. I’m just not a parochial American who thinks that the only people who travel internationally are rich white Americans.

You know nothing about Australia and Australians, who constitute the majority of the victims. Read the profiles - you’ll need to access a “foreign” news site (don’t be scared). Where you see privileged people, I see ordinary middle class people having a bit of a holiday across the Tasman. Which is the sea between Australia and New Zealand. But you wouldn’t know that, would you?

I don’t understand why some of you are unable to sympathize with victims of a disaster. It seems the first thing that comes to mind is how “privileged” they are/were. You don’t have to qualify your feelings like that, ffs.

If I saw victims of a car crash, am I supposed to have more sympathy if they were in a Ford Focus than in a Mercedes?

Also a link to a recent article from USA Today.

I think the protestations of the lack of sympathy have to do less with them being rich and more with them choosing to spend $200 to visit an active steaming volcano.

And, of course, not troubling one’s self with safe sex precautions is 100% risk free.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

More about ^^ groom.

One look at those wedding pictures tells me they are rich, white, privileged jerks. Karma has a way of working out.

R291 Hateful, jealous, and bitter much?

r202, commenting on posts yet to be written much?

Twinks lost!

Royal has cancelled all excursions to volcanoes at all port stops on their itineraries.

It's not that expensive for Australians to travel to New Zealand and vice versa - that's why it happens all the time. I wouldn't count the Australians in as being more than middle class. Perhaps the White Island tour was the only activity they really splashed out on during their trip?

My sense is that your junk will burn off pretty quickly. Given its greater surface area.

Just for some perspective, it cost me far more to visit and stay at Rakiura (the Southern-most island of New Zealand) than it cost me to go to Melbourne for a week.

R167 You’re an idiot. You’re obviously also poor. Not everybody is, but just because someone’s not trash like you doesn’t mean that they’re rich.

I'm going on a ten day cruise on that same ship early next year. I booked early so got a good discount and sharing a stateroom with a couple of friends. I make an average wage and it will cost me about two weeks net pay once I book a couple of trips and buy some drinks.

So it's a cheap and cheerful holiday.

Current news is that the police are intending to go over to the island on Friday to retrieve the bodies and they are working on the plan.

[quote] they know the location of seven of the eight bodies on the island, and they will need specialist breathing equipment and more than 30 minutes to retrieve them so evidence was preserved.

[quote] said the emergency response team were locked away in Whakatāne designing a range of scenarios to attempt a retrieval, and had brought two local helicopter pilots on board to help with the mission. Both pilots were instrumental in the rescue of 12 survivors on Monday, and know the location of the bodies.

[quote] “So the options will range from get in quick, uplift the bodies and get out as quickly as you can so that makes sense to everybody right? But there is a tradeoff for that.”

[quote]Clements said if a quick operation was mounted, important physical evidence could be lost and police would get “no thanks” from the coroner who was tasked with formally identifying the bodies.

[quote]“If we reach a situation at the end of this where we can’t confirm identities, that would absolutely be a poor outcome for us, we’re aiming to repatriate all of the deceased to their families in a way that there is conclusive proof of their identity.”

[quote]Clements said the helicopter pilots who had rescued 12 survivors “acted in the moment” and their work was heroic and deserving of praise and formal recognition, but police did not have that option, and had to carefully weigh up the risks of retrieval.

[quote] I wonder what it feels like too be burned alive.

With spelling like that, let’s hope you find out.

Victims needing skin donations?

Let's start a "Bris for Burns" campaign!

Recovery operation is now under way.

I wonder what condition the bodies will be in. They were hit the hardest at the time of the eruption and then they lay on the hot ground and were covered by ash. Plus their bodies have been decomposing for days. I can see some of the bodies not even holding together in one piece. Not a fun job for those doing the recovery mission. I doubt any will be identifiable given how hard it was to identify the injured due to the burns. Maybe hair and clothes.

Body parts that look like wood at this point. I cant understand how people can do jobs like that without serious mental distress. Think about a plane crash for example. I could never do it. I hope they are paid really, really well.

Six bodies have been recovered from the island.

These are the six bodies whose locations were known.

There are supposedly 2 other bodies remaining, but this mission focused on the six with known locations. Some information on locations had been given to the authorities by the helicopter pilot(s) who independently did the initial mission to retrieve survivors some days ago.

[quote] The fast recovery means there is less time to collect the evidence needed to ensure that the bodies are properly identified.

[quote]All of the bodies were within 200m (656ft) of each other, according to the New Zealand Herald.

"They were loaded with pain medication for the survivors, but the patients were so burnt they had no veins in their arms," she said.

For some reason, I was expecting the bodies to be preserved in lava like Pompeii's victims.

R220 this wasn't a lava eruption. It was a release of steam and gas. It boiled them. It did toss up some rocks and ash but it was primarily extremely hot steam.

My understanding is that the threat from volcanos happen incredibly fast. Pyroclastic flows of molten rock are at 60 mph on average but can reach 400 mph. I imagine gasses are on the fast side of things, so it’s got to be very risky getting those bodies.

Yes it do, r222.

There were helicopter pilots willing to go in right away -- despite the danger -- to retrieve dead bodies. They knew where the bodies were located. But the "police" wouldn't let them because of some "evidence" being disturbed??? WTF is that nonsense??!! Give the victim's families closure, ASAP! That's the only thing that matters, now.....

You cant out run a Pyroclastic flow. I wonder though if diving under the water would have helped at all or if it would have been just as boiling hot.

It was really important that the "evidence" not be lost because it's pretty much impossible to identify these people - their faces are completely gone. The burns units can't even identify the 80% burnt people if they can't speak because nearly everything (including genitals) is gone. I can understand people's frustrations but it means the relatives and loved ones will have a better chance of getting the remains back quicker if they waited for the official retrieval.

The Defence Forces have gone in and retrieved the bodies now anyway, apart from two (at least one of whom is in the ocean). Given that the volcano was at 50-60% likelihood of another eruption at the time, it was pretty amazing that they were even able to go in this morning. Very brave people.

The "evidence" was for body identification purposes - it's not like any new information is going to tell us anything about how they died which is not incredibly obvious.

What "evidence" are they talking about?? If their faces and genitals were burnt to the extent that the gender couldn't be identified, then surely anything they were carrying (such as a backpack with their i.d. or other specific stuff) would have been incinerated, too.

Video of the first tour group - from their boarding the boat to their trek up to the crater to their leaving the island.

Then the eruption and narration about rescue of wounded.

This first group were the lucky ones. It appears to be a calm, peaceful day and a leisurely trek up and back.

They weren't specific about what kind of evidence - the victims were burnt by steam, so presumably equipment like phones and cameras etc may be intact and near the bodies.

It's a tragedy for the lives lost.

The rescuers wear talking about cutting off clothing, but the bodies were melted by the boiling water underneath. The helicopter pilot who helped survivors was saying all remaining skin was coming off in his hands.

" I wonder though if diving under the water would have helped at all or if it would have been just as boiling hot. "

I suppose deep water wouldn't boil, the problem would be that you couldn't surface for air without inhaling scalding toxic gas. Basically, there's no way to survive being caught in a pyroclasic flow. They move too fast to make dodging them an option, and they can kill you with sheer heat, with toxic gasses, with inhaled ash, or just by leaving no oxygen in the atmosphere.

There were a German couple who survived with minor burns because the helicopter pilot they were touring with told them to run into the ocean. Two others refused (fucking morons) and were terribly burnt.

Now that I think about it, I recall watching something on the flow that killed people of Pompeii. That thing spread across the surface of the ocean like a blade on ice. But that means the water probably stayed very cool with maybe a thin layer of air acting as a glide. If it went into the water, it probably would have slowed down a lot more. The question is, even if that were true, how long can you hold your breath.

Chief Medical Officer talks about the kind of burns that have resulted from this event.

Normally doctors would see burns as a result of fire, boiling water or oil, etc. These burns are different due to the

[quote] sulfur and the chemical composition of the volcanic eruption

I think I saw that the Pyroclastic flow at Pompeii travelled across the top of the water. It is gas, after all. It can actually go fastest over calm water, since there’s nothing to slow it down, like there is on land.

[quote]There were a German couple who survived with minor burns because the helicopter pilot they were touring with told them to run into the ocean. Two others refused (fucking morons) and were terribly burnt.

Morons or were they people who just couldn't swim?

Families really need closure. Hopefully they will be able to find the remaining two bodies. The people involved in retrieval are truely brave.

Further updates on the recovery.

R227. "It was Mr Volcano, in the middle of the sea, with the pyroclastic flow.

Closure? It's pretty obvious what happened. Unlike the missing Malaysian Airlines flight passengers where people don't really know what happened.

It seems irresponsible to retrieve bodies straight away whilst there is still a risk to those retrieving bodies - not worth the risk, for any reason.

If I was a family member I wouldn't put pressure on anybody to risk their lives on retrieving a body. Most people cremate their dead ones anyway.

[quote]Closure? It's pretty obvious what happened. .. It seems irresponsible to retrieve bodies straight away whilst there is still a risk to those retrieving bodies - not worth the risk, for any reason.

I agree and who is to say that you'll find a body, because there is a great chance that the (hard to find) bodies are incinerated.

It's no different that earthquakes or tornadoes. You have to go get people at some point and you still don't know if another one is going to strike.

Not incinerated. Buried in muck.

[quote] R242: Most people cremate their dead ones anyway.

I don’t think that is at all true in the US. Is that true where you are (where?) or in NZ?

Sounds as if one of the two still missing victims is in the water near the island.

Spotted from the air.

Story about the deceased guide Hayden Marshall-Inman earlier heroic event.

The military professionals retrieving the bodies really should be commended for not only risking their own lives but doing so while wearing layers and layers of protective gear in the middle of summer on a live volcano. What a daunting task.

I can tell this tragedy didn't happen in America, there would be already be headlines about major litigation from multiple parties and businesses tied to this.

Well there SHOULD be litigation, R249! These tour companies were shuffling thousands and thousand of people in and out of a very unsafe place, a fucking live volcano whose eruptions were much harder to predict than most live volcanoes.

White Island should never have become a tourist destination, and anyone who brought tourists there knowing that the monitoring in place couldn't predict eruptions was negligent and deserves a court case.

Like people didn’t know they were visiting a “live” volcano that could erupt any second? They figured it wouldn’t blow while they were standing on it, which is almost always a great bet. Almost.

[quote]I can tell this tragedy didn't happen in America, there would be already be headlines about major litigation from multiple parties and businesses tied to this.

As there should be you Repug. The company was responsible for the safety of their customers. Despite their claims they had no warnings, the scientists who monitor that volcano did in fact issue elevated risk.

"Like people didn’t know they were visiting a “live” volcano that could erupt any second? "

DID they tell the customers that unlike volcanoes that have lava eruptions, the White's Island volcano had steam eruptions that could only be predicted by a few seconds, and that White's Island was much less safe to visit than the average live volcano? DID they tell the customers that there was an official elevated risk on at the time? If they did not, then the tour companies are negligent and deserve whatever they get, waivers or no.

This has been quite an educational thread, BTW.

For the poster asking about cremation - cremation is very popular in New Zealand. 70% in 2008 - probably more now. I guess that's what happens in a secular society.

Did they die instantly? What are the corpses like?

Nope, some did right near the blast, but most died a horrible slow death with burns covering 90% of their bodies, skin melting off, genitals burned off, eyes burned out, lungs full of toxic fumes, heart still pumping unable to move or scream in excruciating pain.

^ Wanna date?

I think I know what happened.

Times like these are when I really believe in God. Here’s these idiots hiking in an active volcano, and God says “Its time to teach some dumb-ass humans a lesson.”

R259 If that’s how God thinks, he doesn’t deserve the title.

R260 - that’s exactly how god “thinks.” How else would you describe tsunamis or earthquakes in densely populated areas?

"God".

R262 - calm down honey. Just because you think you’re Uber intelligent and don’t believe in “God” doesn’t mean 90% of the world doesn’t get to have an opinion about our creator.

I can bet that the tour brochure the tourists were given didn't mention any risk of eruption at all, these weren't thrill seeking adrenalin junkies they were regular people who just wanted a memorable day out.

[quote] these weren't thrill seeking adrenalin junkies they were regular people who just wanted a memorable day out.

And they sure got one!

They got what they deserved. Karma happens at the most unexpected times.

R261 ‘God’ doesn’t send that crap to punish anyone. Who is God punishing on Jupiter with its storms? There is no God.

The people of Pompeii weren't killed by a pyroclastic flow, they suffocated due to the ash and pumice that rained down and buried the town.

Actually, R268, the hours of pumice and ash falling on Pompeii, followed by a pyroclastic flow that finished off anything that was still alive.

Actually, r269, that's just a theory from one group. Few bodies showed the boxing pose that is common to a death by extreme heat.

At least White Island will have some nice statues to attract future tourists.

It would be a fun archaeological excavation in a couple years! Look you guys, I found a femur!!

[quote] Nope, some did right near the blast, but most died a horrible slow death

Probably not that slow. They'd go into shock with all that you describe, and die from that.

I wish I could muster some sympathy for these adventure seekers, but I just couldn’t care less.

R274 will die within one year after his retirement. I will feel no sympathy for him either.

You can take areal tours of the lava flows in Hawaii, much safer. I did this one years ago and you can see a school bus prematurely frozen in lava rock. It's really slow there, about the pace of a turtle so no one died.

R270 et al, you are why I love the Datalounge. Where else on the internet can one find cuntery over the progression of events 2000 years ago, at Pompeii!

And I already had R274 on "ignore", obviously for good reasons.

Some volcano related tourism context. Iceland has over 130 active volcano systems and is now overrun with 2 million plus visitors, annually. All are free to roam - with or without tour guides, and experience unlimited opportunities to get dangerously close to seething, spitting, hissing boiling liquids and noxious gasses. Tour guides talk with glee of amazing secluded geothermal pools they know of, to jump in and enjoy without hordes around, which are usually perfect spa temperature but which can change in an instant to boil the skin off hot. Ancient lava fields have cracks and fissures which have potential to not only twist an ankle but, alarmingly, take you (and local dogs) deep down to the apparent depths of the planet. Like Iceland, New Zealand’s development and growth of ‘adventure’ tourism is vital to its economy and volume has reduced the cost of a stay. So much potential for further tragic accidents.

Just FYI, while taking a tour of a volcano from the air, pilot pointed out other helicopter tours hovering over the caldera so people could take pics. He circled around but would not hover over them because he said the amount of particles that come up with the smoke build up really fast on the engine, its like a lifetime of soot in one year. He said they lose about 1 helicopter a years that way from not being maintained property.

For those posters who think that this tour was for death-defying thrill seekers, as one of the few people posting who has actually been to White Island I can assure you I didn’t understand the risk I was taking and don’t believe it was adequately explained by the tour operator. White Island was listed as one of the top things to do in New Zealand by Lonely Planet - it was NOT marketed as something crazy and dangerous.

R280 And there hence lies the problem. When people aren't made aware it is just so so wrong. Sure, given a choice lots of people would still venture there but others would not.

Dont waste your time R280. Most of these nelly queens saying they would never see a volcano haven't be out any further then the edge of their front lawn.

How many people each year visit Yellowstone? It's actually considered a super volcano, that entire valley with big lakes, wild buffalo and geyser is not a valley, turns out it's a giant caldera, it could blow anytime as well. In fact, there have been rumblings over the past few years.

R283, if and when Yellowstone blows, it will be an extinction level event. I'd rather be there and go quickly rather than than the slow death everyone in the world will go through.

We won’t be around for it.

R285 - I will be around for it.

R286 Madonna, your face looks like you got bukkaked by a volcano.

I’ve been to Yellowstone. I think you’re far more likely to die by stepping off a walkway into a boiling sulfur pool or being mauled by a grizzly bear than any volcanic event.

I hope Madonna never visits Yellowstone. Nature would be so offended she would go apeshit and destroy us all.

r280 I also went to Whakaari/White Island when I was a kid. Remember, the whole of New Zealand is on a fault line and we live here knowing the whole place could go down in an earthquake at any moment. Christ, the whole of Wellington - the capital city's - business district is built on land that came up out of the sea in an 8.5 earthquake only 150 years ago. The airport is too. We will be fucked int he next big earthquake (that is very overdue), but pragmatic. Climbing live volcanoes etc is part of living here.

However, tourists don't know about this and I really think the tourism industry (unsurprisingly) let them down. What a horrific way to die, and I am just so sorry.

^^^^ Ignore the grammar etc, I am in a rush and there is no fucking edit button. Murial? Get your shit together, my dear.

Muriel.

[quote]Remember, the whole of New Zealand is on a fault line and we live here knowing the whole place could go down in an earthquake at any moment.

I live in Rotorua and everyone is pretty blase about geothermal activity as you see it everywhere and there are boiling mud pools in the middle of parks with just rickety wooden fencing around it. Someone's house nearly fell into a boiling mud pool that just erupted underneath it earlier this year and while it was in the news, it wasn't that shocking to us. In most places here you are surrounded by either (currently dormant) volcanoes and massive fault lines and I think it's very easy to just get used to it as a fact of life, but tourists don't have that everyday experience. I agree that there was probably not enough warnings given to the tourists and it is probably a combination of just being used to this environment and therefore careless and money grubbing from the island's private owners and tour companies. Awful.

Hottest way to die, literally . .

Here is the news item on the mud pool under the people's house just around the corner from my place. As you can see there is just a thin line of tape blocking it off from the general public. When I went to look they had put up a couple of orange cones as well but that's it. The people eventually moved back in.

You know it's bad when this is the back page of everyone's phone books

"Remember, the whole of New Zealand is on a fault line and we live here knowing the whole place could go down in an earthquake at any moment. "

Do the Australian tourists who make up a big chunk of the visitors have a clue? Australia is one of the most geologically inactive places on the planet!

Because yeah, New Zealand guy, we Californians can relate, because while the land we live on isn't quite as energetic as yours, it's pretty active. I grew up hearing to get under my desk if an earthquake hit my school, to stay away from seacliffs and steep hillsides after rain because that's when they collapse, and that if I stepped off the boardwalk at the Lassen geyser basins I'd be boiled alive, and learned about Richter scales and precursor quakes and volcanoes emitting ash vs. lava in grade school. That's all internalized, and I don't think that'd be true of someone who grew up without seeing geology happen in real time. Did any of them have a CLUE how much danger they were in.

Let's assume all of you Litigation Lillies got your way and everyone was given disclaimers and warnings about possible eruptions, but nothing bad had happened for many decades. Do you really think there would have been any fewer casualties? People would still have been visiting; it's compelling to see the awesome power of nature close up.

Your logic seems to be the real tragedy here is that people had no idea there was danger, where I think the tragedy is that people were killed at all. No amount of legalese would have prevented that.

[quote]Your logic seems to be the real tragedy here

No you silly Repug. You have a selective reading comprehension issue. Very Fox New typical viewer. As mentioned up therad several times, there were warnings of elevated risky by the scientist. A responsible tour company would say not today folks danger alert is on high.

It's not rocket science. I have been on cruise that go near glaciers for example. They tell you up front, if the conditions of the water look bad, like too much ice, we are not going to risk everyone live just for a view of the glacier. Even if you paid 4,000 dollars just to see that.

Wow, you don't see that in London. Are tsunamis more likely there too?

London has no blizzards, no heatwaves, no wildfires, no earthquakes, no volcanoes, no floods, no tornadoes and no hurricanes. 100% free from natural disasters.

[quote]London has no blizzards, no heatwaves, no wildfires, no earthquakes, no volcanoes, no floods, no tornadoes and no hurricanes. 100% free from natural disasters.

Except for that mini Ice Age in 1645 but yeah other than an ice age no problems. LOL

R295 With all the Chinese and Indian migrants, a pandemic is probably most probable.

What were the odds of an eruption while people were in the crater? Vanishingly small. Even “informed of the risk,” most people who were interested would go. Sometimes the long-shot comes to pass, but that doesn’t mean we make all decisions based on the worst case scenario.

Odds were not "vanishingly small." A couple of days ago it was 50-50, last week it might have been 30-40 for, 60-70 against. The alert level had been raised in the last few weeks.

The view wouldn't have been anything. It's not like you see a lava flow there.

It was done for the thrill factor.

Horrible way to die.

[quote]Odds were not "vanishingly small." A couple of days ago it was 50-50, last week it might have been 30-40 for, 60-70 against. The alert level had been raised in the last few weeks.

That’s the odds that the event is not over after the event began. Obviously, no one would go on an excursion with a 30-40% chance of a horrible death. You have to look at frequency of eruption and the amount of time exposed to the risk. There have been three eruptions in the past 20 years and the odds that one occurs during your 60 minutes on the island are tiny.

R90, I wanted to thank you for mentioning the Simon Winchester book on Krakatoa. I just finished it and it was, indeed, excellent. His epilogue where he describes his boat ride to the islands really brought back the intensity of the experience for me. Thanks!