SWC Part Fifth

*munches on popcorn watching the drama unfold*

This is getting better than Game of Thrones, although not as realistic.

R2 - LOL.

This was mentioned once before, I think, but in case anyone not up on British history is unaware, GoT was based on the Wars of the Roses; The author admitted that's where he got his "inspiration", with the Lannisters standing for the Lancasters, and the Starks for the Yorks.

For what it's worth, the Yorks had the better claim as those things are reckoned, but practically speaking, the Lancasters won, and the two houses were united, finally, with the marriage of Edward's daughter, Elizabeth of York, to the first of the Tudor Kings, Henry VII.

So it's not as less realistic as all that . . . it's just that the blood-letting is emotional rather than physical.

Thank you, R3-I stand corrected! Very interesting indeed!

And they say old history is worthless!

Frankly, the physical bloodletting in the Wars of the Roses was nearly as bad as in GoT. Richard, Duke of York, whose son Richard, Duke of Gloucester would become the infamous (it was a historical smear) Richard III, was slain in battle defending his house's claim to the throne. Margaret of Anjou put his head on a pike with a paper crown on it after he fell.

From that lost battle, Richard of York's name became a way to name the colours of the rainbow: Richard Of York Gave Battle In Vain (red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, violet) but it isn't used much any longer, the popular Roy G. Biv is.

...

R4 if you're into history, reading about the Roses is quite exciting.

Book recommendations, R7?

How about something fun?

Posters need to lay off Meghan and Kate.

Meghan is not pure concentrated evil (reserved for Prince Andrew) and Kate is not god's gift to the British Royal Family (reserved for Princess Anne and Countess Sophie).

Who is Countess Sophie, R10?

R11 - The former Sophie Rhys-Jones. Currently the Countess of Wessex, GCVO DStJ, and a member of the British Royal Family. She is the wife of Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex, the youngest son of Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh.

R11-Sophie Wessex, Prince Edward's wife. She had a rocky start, but since has acquitted herself beautifully. She works hard and is a favorite of Her Maj.

There is no “Countess Sophie”. I bet you say “Duchess Meghan” as well.

The British might call her many things but Duchess certainly ain't one of them R14

[quote]Photos of the Sussexes have been removed both from the Queen's reception room, and from a spot in Charles' drawing room.

That's old news from back in October, first of all, and as every single news story about it said, the photo of William and Harry was still there so Harry is obviously not being snubbed, and the photo of Princess Anne that had been there before was also removed.

Why do the British hate Meghan so much?

It's a racial thing isn't it?

R17 - No.

R8 - You can do Wars of the Roses and have fun, too, LOL.

Phillipa Gregory's "The White Queen" was the saga told from the point of view of the women involved who were mostly pawns in a violent and ever-changing deadly chess game. It was made into a very well done television series.

"The Sunne in Splendour" is Richard III's era told with more sympathy for this historically smeared figure - Sharon Kay's work. Factoid: she left the ms in a taxi once, I think, and had to start the whole thing over again, but don't quote me on that.

Then there's the Bard, who starts with Richard II and his overthrow by his cousin Henry Bolingbroke, and goes straight through Henry IV Parts 1 and 2, Henry V (Battle of Agincourt, in which Henry is so heroically portrayed when in fact he as mostly a military thug), Henry VI, Henry VII (which many doubt is all the Bard's work), and finishing with Richard III's overthrow at the Battle of Bosworth, ushering in the Tudors.

The Bard's retelling are riveting imho as literature but have to be taken with buckets of salt historically. The Tudors were on the throne when these were written and it was as much as his life would have been worth to tell the truth: that the Tudor's claim was shoddy, the Yorks had the truer claim, and Richard III was not a monster who needed replacing. Richard was actually a decent man, a loving husband, a fine soldier, was respected and liked by his tenants and holdings in the north, but a bad politician.

And by all odds it was Buckingham who did away with the little Princes in the Tower.

You could also check out the very entertaining and workmanlike series The Plantagenets: Britain's Bloodiest Dynasty, it's a very good intro and not too heavy.

The thing about the Wars of the Roses, in my view, is that it set a pattern that subliminally I think still underlies British political life: every GE is like a fight for the soul of the country. Henry II's ferocity turned a little country made up of warring tribal overlords into a nation and a European power. British politics is still quite bloody, and the BREXIT referendum set the stage for another Wars of the Roses-like struggle for the soul of the nation.

It's just that now the monarchy is a sideshow.

Someone once said on one of the political threads that what the country needs is a Ouija board to resurrect Henry II and it would all be sorted out and quickly.

R14 - This is the DataLounge not the Court Circular, not the London Times and not The Telegraph.

I can, as everyone else does, call the members of the BRF by any name that I choose.

R17 - Racial and American thing

Thank you, R19! Those are terrific, thoughtful recommendations. I think I'll start with "The White Queen." That sounds like perfect reading this time of year.

R22 - If you have the STARZ network on demand, all three series are currently running on demand; The White Queen, The White Princess and The Spanish Princess. The series are not 100% historically accurate but they are very well done and very entertaining.

R22 - If you move on to the television series, you'll see an excellent cast, with Rebecca Ferguson as Elizabeth Woodville and a pre-Demelza/Poldark, Eleanor Tomlinson, as Isabel Neville, the wife of the ill-fated Duke of Clarence.

Amanda Hale did a wonderful turn as Margaret Beaufort, obsessed mother of the eventual victor at Bosworth, Henry Tudor, Earl of Richmond.

Thank you, R24. I appreciate the effort you're putting into sharing! Lots of abrasion flies around these boards sometimes, so appreciate your kindness and civility.

R25 - My pleasure.

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Loved Stephanie in Hart to Hart. Love her even more now.

Kate Middleton was stunned when one of Prince Louis’s first words is ‘Mary!’

Prince Louis uttering "Mary!" as one of his first words.

He's already a DL favourite. Not in the snarky but in the strict sense of the word.

Louis is one of us!

LMBO!

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Kate and Will on the cover of People

Kate looks stunning there, don't think I know that dress. Anyone able to ID it?

PEOPLE has been Meghan's mouthpiece for some time. They probably have seen which way the wind is blowing - this should serve as a lesson for Meghan: the press is never anyone's particular "friend" unless it serves the press's needs, as well.

It will be really interesting to see the Sussexes "return" and take up their royal duties as if nothing had happened - because absent a public announcement that they are withdrawing from royal life, they really have to return to those duties or else make it plain that they're living off the public dole whilst doing nothing to earn it.

Right on cue, the fraus on CB think the fact that Kate and William travelled in separate cars shows "cracks" in the Cambridge marriage - ignoring the fact that in one car you have Mum, a Royal Protection Officer, and three children under 6. I also think you will be seeing William and George increasingly travelling separately, for obvious reasons.

Prince George appears to be remaining quite blond, whilst his younger siblings are growing up brunette like their Mum. He is beginning to remind me more and more of his great-grandfather, Prince Philip, than anyone else (which also doesn't bode well for George retaining his wavy blond locks too long).

People forget that Diana, whilst very blonde as an infant and toddler, didn't remain so, but had mousey brown hair by her teens, which she swiftly began to lighten so that by the time she came to public attention, she was the blonde, blue-eyed darling we first came to know, and she got blonder and blonder as time went on, moving from heavily highlighted hair to what looked like double process platinum.

Harry got the Spencer ginge genes, and William had fair-ish but not quite blond hair into adulthood.

But Philip was a true Viking blond in his adult life allbeit always thin on the top - people forget he was Danish-German by blood, not Greek.

George is beginning to look like a throwback to Philip.

R33 - LOL. My bet would be on another black and white photo from their "private" visit with Desmond Tutu. It will strive to be the polar opposite of the relaxed "normal family" presented by the Cambridges, and instead aim for "arty sophistication" and implied but unspoken "political relevance".

That should go down well with the folk in Blythe Valley, Northumberland, and Stoke on Trent in the West Midlands, you know, people whose taxes help support Harry and Meghan and Archie in their sumptuous lifestyle?

It would, I'm sure, also go down well at BP with its political overtones.

Oh, well, perhaps they've learnt something from the blowback toward their Woe is Me in Africa documentary and we'll just get the arty black and white photo of the three of them gazing adoringly at each other.

Or maybe they'll use the christening photo in which the bridge of Meghan's nose was suddenly transforme from flattened ski-jump to straight Roman Noble.

William was blonde well into his early 20s. George may follow the same pattern.

However else the children turn out, it seems assured that they will all be quite tall, given their parentage. Ironically, the Royals were known for being tiny from the Victorian Era through Elizabeth and Margaret. But first Elizabeth, then Charles, and then William all married tall partners, breeding some welcome height into the direct line of succession.

LOL R37. The entire Cambridge family left in the same vehicle, so the divorce must be off.

Dear God R39, you are a troll. You've posted 11 replies in this thread. Your entire life is all about the royal family. That's so sad and pathetic

Get a life

Edward and Sophie Wessex arrived in separate vehicles, too. Yet nobody accuses them of having any kind of marital row.

I didn't see any pictures of Peter and Autumn Phillips and offspring arriving for lunch, were they not in attendance or not photograph worthy?

Charles and Camilla also arrived separately but left together after the lunch, as did the Wessexes as well as the Cambridges. Noted also that William drove in with George whilst Kate drove in with the two younger children.

I imagine that the arrivals were somehow based in security issues which the departures didn't merit. But the two next heirs driving together, if there are security concerns, seems somehow counter-intuitive to me.

The wishful thinking of the fraus on CB are, as usual, moronic.

I didn't notice them talking excitedly about "cracks" in the Sussex marriage when Harry snapped at Meghan on the balcony of BP during the Trooping the Colour and you could actually see that she was trying not to cry.

I imagine that it won't be too much longer before the Cambridges can't travel anywhere as 1 unit. Particularly with what's waiting just a bit further down the line of succession.

[quote]But the two next heirs driving together, if there are security concerns, seems somehow counter-intuitive to me.

I can't imagine how secured, watched, and patrolled the area around BP. KP, Clarence House and St. James must be. They drove from a very short distance in the most secured zone in the UK. Flying on the same plane is more concerning. Kate, the nanny Maria Teresa, and the kids are frequently seen and snapped by others in the park around KP. I can't imagine Scotland Yard would allow this if there weren't some pretty strict security procedures.

[quote] Kate Middleton was stunned when one of Prince Louis’s first words is ‘Mary!’

[snicker]

I wonder who could have taught him that?

George has got strawberry blonde hair - blonde with a red tinge in it.

Louis will grow up to be a heartbreaker, mark my words.

What William and Kate need to consider is that they've got to encourage Charlotte and Louis to get themselves proper jobs so they won't end up like useless and pompous Andrew and Harry, i. e. so they won't get the 'spare syndrome' (getting pretentious and feeling entitled, that is).

Charlotte and Louis will be full time working royals just like Anne, The Princess Royal if the UK remains a monarchy.

William and George were at a prior event , they took a four generations photo there. They are so stupid.