Andrew Sullivan: Gay Left hates and wants to persecute Christians

Oh for the love of Pete!

Andrew, stop pigsplaining for the rest of us, will ya?

Thanks, doll.

Love ya!

Mean it this time

I mean, it's Andrew Sullivan; truly one of the most tired, and ugliest, queens in the history of mankind. Moving on.

Milky Loads!

I’m not reading sully but the definition of “Christian” means a lot of things to a lot of people. That’s the problem right there.

I hate and want to persecute Andrew Sullivan. Who’s in?

He's spot on! And far worse, while fetishising homo-murdering Muslim societies.

R7 Who let you out of your cell, Milo? Be gone before somebody drops a house on you.

Why does anyone at all listen to anything Andrew Sullivan says?

He's been irrelevant for a decade. If, that is, he was ever relevant.

R8 Gay Left lunatics just can't help outing themselves.

I wish.

Xtianity and all religion should be illegal.

R11, you need Jesus.

Jesus has come for you, R11.

He is risen.

Are you up to the challenge?

I wish you'd stop posting here, Andrew. You briefly irritate a couple of Dataloungers and are then immediately forgotten. Get a hobby and stop wasting your time.

Hates - yes

Persecution - no

By forcing them to make wedding cakes for them.

Blocked r13. Good to identify who the demon-possessed blasphemer is.

R17 I am DEFINITELY the demon-possessed blasphemer.

And Jesus loves me for it! ✝️

[quote]Xtianity and all religion should be illegal.

As should be the Aguilera fangirl misspelling of Xianity.

R17, ugh, aunt pitta pat needs to get laid

Pete needs to up the Christian card to make up for how he loves dick up his ass.

Pete is politically smart and knows how to win in swing states. He wisely ignores the frothy-mouthed radical fringe that couldn’t win dog catcher and seems to relish being out of touch With and opposed by mainstream America.

R13 whoever made that certainly made a hell of a mistake. I see an uncut dick and Jesus was Hebrew and Jewish. Heresy! And that jerk Pete Buttigieg... somebody needs to punch him in his face and kick him in his balls. And don't be trolling or hating on me!

Go back to LeftBehind, heathen r17! You're not wanted here.

The Passion of the Cock at R13.

Well, it is true. It’s high time they do feel persecuted after persecuting us for so many years.

Agree, R26. It’s so interesting how the Salem witch hunts ended as soon as the people who were burning accused witches were accused of witchcraft themselves.

Unbelievable (and quite thrilling) that a little gay boy from a small mid-western town could be such a big threat! I am loving it.

Every year, the Salvation Army sends me a postage-paid donation envelope, and every year I send it back with a printed news story about their discriminatory practices and “NO” written on the donation amount line.

Sullivan is an erratic, high strung, worrywort. I do think that at this point in modern Western history, Christianity progresses. The bounce back from the "missionary lands" continues to change the nature of mainline churches (the largest Presbyterian church is in Seoul Korea, the African bishops move the Anglican communion to the Right, evangelical Kenyans ask for the death penalty for gay men). But there will be an adjustment, and the current "Evangelical Pentecostal prosperity-gospel Christianist proto-fascist movement" will be exposed not as "Christianity", but rather a political movement.

R29, every year that goes back and forth?

Is it possible the medications he has taken have altered his personality?

Here's the direct link to what Sullivan said on his Twitter feed.

What Sullivan has said about Buttigieg (April 2019 in NyMag.com)

[quote] I met Buttigieg in the Real Time green room. Impressive, calm, open — but no Obama. Maybe that aura and an elusive sense of authority will grow, as his confidence does. And, of course, Buttigieg’s emergence has a personal salience for me. He is, quite simply, what many of us in my generation of gays fought for and rarely believed could happen: He is proud to be gay but not defined by it, happily married, a veteran, wickedly smart, and completely integrated.

[quote] When I read some LGBTQ activists push back on him for not being gay or “intersectional” enough, it depresses me beyond measure. His candidacy is as historic as Obama’s. His potential presidency even more so. That so many see him as a credible, formidable candidate is a reminder that in America, we can still unite in a more humane consensus. Trump has eclipsed that possibility in a welter of poison. Buttigieg quite simply rescues it again.

[quote]He is, quite simply, what many of us in my generation of gays fought for

Yes, it is.

So lie and say he is just as good as Obama.

As Gay Men it's our job to run interference for Pete.

He's right. Fuck the Church, it's up to the Gay Left to remove the USA from the stranglehold of crazy christianity.

[quote]Jesus has come for you, [R11].

Pics please.

[quote]however much good they do

The “good they do” is always conditional.

R37 See R13

god I wish, we should persecute Christians

I know plenty of straight people who have had it with religion trying to force themselves on everyone. It isn't just gays.

Andrew Sullivan, who has been telling Americans what to do and how to think for years and years, only became an American citizen in 2017. He can go fuck himself.

My problem with attacking the Salvation Army, is that they do provide their services without discrimination, it is only within their actual church that they discriminate. In many places they are the only organization capable of helping the homeless. I can’t feel good boycotting them for being anti-gay when boycotting them might result in a homeless person dying on the street because they aren’t there to help, that person could be LGBT. If they were turning away LGBT people it would be a different story. As I believe in the rights of the Constitution, I believe that LGBT people have the right to be LGBT, but religious institutions, also have the right to believe whatever they want and act accordingly. It is a balancing act, everyone should have maximum freedom, as long as it doesn’t negatively impact other people’s freedom.

Here is an example of the Salvation Army's PR people pandering to the gays and the world after so much bad press about its stinking homophobia.

R43, I hardly think a gay boycott will result in a homeless person dying on the street. How much money, power, and influence do you think gay people have?

Agree with R43. Salvation Army does deliver important services (shelter, food) in the central city, and other impoverished neighborhoods. They have anti-gay views in their doctrine. So do orthodox Jewish traditions, conservative Muslim traditions, evangelical Christian churches, Amish, etc etc. Salvation Army does, however, focus on the most impoverished, those most in need. I value what they door for the poor, and abhor their cultural rightwing doctrine.

And if you live in a semi-decent city, there are other organizations that do work specifically for the gay community, or who at least don't discriminate. I prefer to give them my donations instead.

I agree with R46 and do the same. As for Pete, I just think he looks stupid with that red apron over his suit. It's a rather forced photo op.

Sorry, I meant over his coat. An even dumber look. At least take off your coat and stay a while, Mayor Pete!

He’s outside in the cold!

Pete is so adorable in OPs photo.😍

Pete knew if he ever wanted to seek office that he'd have to be a veteran and a Christian in order to counteract his homosexuality in the eyes of the voter.

I think he’s a sincere Christian, but there is no doubt being a Christian helps him politically. It’s virtually impossible to become President as a nonChristian

Even though, R52, they can have numerous affairs and be recorded saying they grab women by the pussy. That's okay.

[quote] The gay left hates and wants to persecute orthodox Christians, however much good they do.

Still struggling to figure out what good they do exactly.

ISn't it normal to hate the people who want to stone you to death?

Good Christians, yes?

More good Christians?

And more good Christians

Here are some good Christians

Baptists this time

Organized Xtians in US dedicated all their efforts for a decade to banning us having the right to marry.

Not to eliminating poverty or improving the country or helping others... but that ONE issue.

Nothing else.

I'd be chill with any persecution of them.

I'm certainly not going to click on the OP's link, but I'll simply say that the "gay left" only wants to "persecute" those "Christians" who want to persecute gay people and/or deny them their civil rights.

END OF F&!KING STORY.

Episcopal/Anglican churches enjoy raping the kiddies, too. More good Christians!

The only reason Andrew Sullivan ever had a platform was because he was a gay man the conservatives and Republicans could use to provide some semblance of diversity and to use him to support anti-gay policies. (SEE! Even a gay man says gay marriage is wrong!)

Plus, bizarrely, he is a staunch supporter of the Catholic church. You know, that church that denounces homosexuality and gay marriage and allowed centuries of child abuse.

He is a provocateur, no more, no less. He's intellectually dishonest, morally corrupt, and should be deported from this country.

Hope you read this Andrew you piece of shit human being.

Real Christians who follow Jesus Christ’s teachings of tolerance, compassion, loving neighbors, they...uh...they um, they really love this racist, daughter-fucking, porn star-renting criminal, don’t they?

Hate-preaching Baptists in LA.

“Anderson pastors Faithful Word Baptist Church in Tempe, Arizona. He gained national attention for celebrating the June 2016 Pulse massacre, where 49 people were killed and 53 injured in an attack at an LGBTQ nightclub in Orlando.”

What a good Christian.

Nonsense Mr Sullivan. They couldn’t give a flying fuck about them.

Every good Christian minister needs a little incest in his life.

The good Christians let this good Christian pastor who raped his 14-year-old daughter off easy.

Jesus is proud!!

Nazi David Duke is a good Christian.

I wish we would stop comparing everyone who is a candidate to Obama. Obama wasn't even "Obama" enough at first. He grew into it. Pete is Pete, and he keeps getting better. This is a different time and, I believe, that in this era of Trump, the challenges are far greater than Obama had when he ran. I think Pete is up to the challenge and is in the race for all the right reasons. One thing, Obama had/has, is that undefinable "it" factor and a trailblazer. So does/is Pete. So in that way they are similar. Other than that, let Pete fly on his own.

[quote] Organized Xtians in US dedicated all their efforts for a decade to banning us having the right to marry. Not to eliminating poverty or improving the country or helping others... but that ONE issue.

Don't disregard their fervor so easily, r60! They also went to Uganda to fund and support their "Kill the Gays" movement.

I am so tired of these queens from the UK always coming to America to tell us whats wrong with us. And they always get it wrong! They seem hardwired to hate progressives and then begrudgingly they made a mistake years later after they put people like Bush or Trump in the White House. They don't understand in this country its the opposite of what they knew growing up on the other side of the pond.

R48 One of the things that really annoys me about Pete is his campaigning in a dress shirt, tie, and no coat. It looks like a Sunday School teacher in 1964. It communicates "uptight" (the tie and expanse of white shirt) and "no stature" (the lack of a coat). He should be doing the more generational appropriate look, like Yang, sport coat and no tie. He needs the coat to show he has gravitas and the no-tie to demonstrate he isn't an appliance salesman at Sears.

R53 Trump is not a Christian in any sense... and the "disruption" of Trump being worshipped as God's Chosen One by the Christianist Right will 1) destroy them as a political and cultural force or 2) doom democracy for the next century. 2 will happen if Trump wins again. Everything must be focused on beating him Nov 2020.

“It looks like a Sunday School teacher in 1964.“

He was born in 1982, so that seems appropriately retro.

R60, see R19.

No he should not wear a jacket, that would just make him look even more "white privilege guy" to the black voters who still are hung up about him being gay using that race thing to cover that up. With just the shirt, he is white working class regular guy.

R77 not the dress shirt and the tie. That makes him even more white. He looks like a fucking Mormon missionary - where's the bike.

He's too gay!! He's not gay enough!!

[quote] The only reason Andrew Sullivan ever had a platform was because he was a gay man the conservatives and Republicans could use to provide some semblance of diversity and to use him to support anti-gay policies. (SEE! Even a gay man says gay marriage is wrong!)

Give the devil his due. He argued and fought with conservatives about the good that gay marriage would bring us even before mainstream (left-wing?) gay rights groups wanted to discuss the issue. At the time, they were more interested in passing nondiscrimination laws.

From wiki-

[quote] Sullivan wrote the first major article in the United States advocating for gay people to be given the right to marry, published in The New Republic in 1989.

Since 1989.

Does Andrew realize the only people who say 'woke' anymore are angry old racists like him as they complain about Kids Today.

R81 Interesting, eh? "Woke" linguistically went in record speed from an authentic descriptor to a pejorative.

Andrew Sullivan only went to live in the USA because his type of demanding, tedious shit stirring is not appreciated in the UK. He is a publicity whore par excellence, and this latest stunt is because he hadn’t been in the papers for a while. Ignore.

I worked with him at The New Republic and I can say that he is a nasty twat. An arrogant, self-important prick.

R80 - I call bullshit on that. He probably edits his own Wiki - he doesn't get credit from me for the gay marriage movement. Sorry. He's not that influential and there were thousands involved.

I don't see any evidence of gays arguing with conservatives for gay rights producing any advancement in the Republican party. Log Cabin has been a stunning failure across the board.

He's a shit-stirrer. He deserves hatred and shunning. Like Trump. He doesn't really believe what he says, he just writes and says stuff to get attention.

R80: Yeah, those stupid anti-discrimination laws. Who needs em! Stupid left wing time wasters. Now we can get married and legally be fired for it in 27 states with no recourse to protection or compensation. All hail the gay right wing!

Seriously, have a seat.

I thought he died ten years ago.

I

GIVE

MILKY

LOADS

AND I

TAKE

MILKY

LOADS

Agree r73. The slavish devotion to the aristocracy is baked in. They don’t think it’s odd.

I vote for Andrew Sullivan’s compulsory repatriation. We have had sufficient of his idiotic nonsense spouted in a convincing tone. He always sounds like Turley, who also spreads a bunch of bullshit but sounds somewhat reasonable.

Andrew Sullivan was a Gap model in 1992!

He's basically correct.

^^[quote]Former GAP model

Hmm, Pete seems to have quite big feets. You know what that means. No wonder Chasten always has a big smile on his face.

How tall is he?

He's morphing into Steve "Titpig" Hurley.

Is Sullivan a good bottom? Who’s had him?

He’s basically a jackass.

He's so gross--he's always been a huge self-promoter.

I've known him since he was a graduate student. He was creepy then and creepy now.

He used to hang around Rockbar. A friend of mine told me he was gonna fuck him but Andrew was such a pointlessly argumentative prick, he walked away.

I don't like name-calling, but Andrew Sullivan is a douche.

That's hardly true, R81.

Wow, what a pile-on of bitchery!

I've had plenty of issues with what Sullivan has written and said, but get a grip, gurls. First, he's not as bad as Trump, FFS. And he was at the forefront of same sex marriage, and from the beginning, and that can be proven.

Really--you bitches are as bad as the Kevin Sessums haters!

R102 I agree. When I hear use of "woke" I think uneducated or undereducated people who can't use proper vocabulary and syntax. That doesn't apply to any particular generation or demographic.

R103, simply because Sullivan is gay and not as bad as President Trump does not mean we need to worship him, suck his dick with ammoniated foreskin and not tell the truth on him.

The term "woke" has a definite meaning. First, it was used by people who considered themselves particularly aware in a way that they thought others weren't. Now it's often used to deride these people, and often that derision is justified.

R105, I don't think anyone is saying anyone should "worship him, suck his dick with ammoniated foreskin" or anything else.

R106, I generally agree with your latter statement. I included an amusing tidbit because it was a joke on the cancelled comedy "The Big Gay Sketch Show". Please see R103. My post was primarily intended as a reply to R103's harsh comments about alleged unfair treatment of Sullivan. R103's opinions lack merit and it's nothing personal. Generally, Sullivan is a cad. The trend in this thread, his Wikipedia bio and commentary published elsewhere support that humble opinion. Thanks,

R105

How do my opinions "lack merit", R107? People have said things like he's as bad as Trump, and he lies about his stance on same-sex marriage years ago. I would say those comments lack merit, or to be even more candid, they're untrue.

I've made harsh comments? This thread is nothing but harsh comments--isn't that why we're here? I can understand holding Sullivan accountable for his neo-con attitudes, but not everything he's said has been wrong over these many years and he just doesn't deserve the vitriol quite rightly given to Milo, for instance.

Perspective, please.

And we would be better off with non-discrimination laws.

I loathe Ms. Sullivan and wish huh nothing but the worst. Crackwhore skank is not half as smart as she thinks she is, and she is only “famous” because she is “our” Mann Coulter. Meaty Ogre thinker who is a token. I only hope someone drops a house on huh Uncle Tom ass soon. I cannot watch any program that includes huh ugly mug. Eww.

Mann Coulter? Bwah Ha, Ha!

You tell him, Cunty R110!

R110, you have issues man. You’re filled with poisonous hate and type like a nasty drag queen.

Awww, R113, you say that like it’s a bad thing? Lol

Oh it is

R110=pure Datalounge.

R116 I always am interested in how extremes and outliers are so readily proposed as "typical" - this amusing "poisonous queen" diatribe is representative of .004% of DL postings, yet is "purely" emblematic. ??

R110 Is a pathetic person. So sad

Darling R117, this is a site known for its pointless bitchery. Anyone as virulently hateful as R110 is truly DL at its most vitriolic. Purity in any form is rare.

R110, wouldn't the "crackwhore skank" title go to Kevin Sessums?

R120, what's the deal about this Kevin person? I'm not queer-obsessed. The info I found said he's about 63, a Southern author who was banned from Facebook for a day for criticizing Trump, he's HIV+ and admitted to using meth. Anything else?

R121:

Now Liz is going after Pete. It’s really killing these fools that this guy is beating them. Pete calls them out and they have nothing to shoot back with. Liz’s ass is still chapped after Pete called out her healthcare plan. It’s hilarious.

Lol@R118. Are you new here, dahlink? Did you notice the sign on the way in?

R122 thanks, you're a gem. Drugs are bad. Didn't think I'd care for the guy.

R121

I have an important question: can someone bring me up to speed on how Andrew Sullivan came by his "Milky Loads" moniker? Many thanks.

If only there was a way to look up shit on the Internet...

And:

This will give him street cred among flyovers. Very strategic. He can always just apologize to appease leftist radicals. Its hard to condemn charity and the overall intention was good. Go Pete.

R127 thanks. I'll post this true tea again. Sort of reminiscent of the nice, older man who invited me over for a sex date a few days in advance. He was sweet in bed and asked me to sleep over, a great memory. Of course we used condoms. A short time later, by coincidence I found his profile on another site. Said he wanted to walk into a dark bedroom to find a guy face down in a pillow, ass up, fuck him bare, deposit a load with no talking and leave. I was shocked. Sullivan is also an awful hypocrite. Fuck him and not the good way.

R107

Everyone should respond to his Twitter post at r33 with a comment about milky loads

Datalounge has been calling him out for years

She gets screechy if you bring up the Milky Loads thing.

Before the AIDS.

QAF even did an episode featuring a moralizing gay conservative pundit whom Ted finds plowing asses at a bareback orgy.

Pete knows exactly what he is doing at every turn. His team, I believe, is some of the best and brightest out there. I realized that when they immediately bought Biden's flubbed web address in one of the earlier debates within a nano-second of him fumbling the address. To win, he must appeal to middle American Christians who are not exactly pro gay, but also don't spend much time thinking about gays in general. As many have said, the Christianity, solid marriage, reliability, moderate policies are what, I'm guessing, these people want. Even his white shirt/tie, schlubby style is really what the every day, middle class office worker wears. In the early days, Tom Ford offered to provide complete wardrobes and styling for Pete/Chasten, which it looks like they didn't take him up on. That was a smart move. Looking like that Conde Nast instaho couple (I've seen one in particular referenced here on DL) would not at all be relatable to most and turn off. Could you imagine Pete/Chasten w/ monogrammed Vuitton gym duffels and furry Gucci slippers (at least in the public arena)? Even Pete's campaign logo has a nostalgic "Take me out to the ballgame for crackerjacks" feel good, kind of vibe. He and his team are handling everything brilliantly, IMHO. I think most can all agree it is such a wonderful and unexpected surprise that he has made it this far with a continued upward trajectory. The hate will continue to increase the higher he rises, which is expected. Earnestness is kryptonite to the ironic.

R136 I appreciate your observations, but I think Pete's "second act" hasn't been all that smart. I judge that as a "white, graduate degree, economically comfortable, progressive" voter - who donated $ several times to him last Spring as he was launching. I am the demographic that has been the engine of his support. But his pivot to "the centrist lane", his wooden responses to voters of color (the campaign let the "white privileged male who is tone-deaf to people of color with a bad track record" - they let that go on too long, perhaps with irreparable damage. No response that limited the spread of that image, nothing effective. Save perhaps only last week's visit to Rev Barber - too little, too late). And has lost me. If Pete's choices and campaign have lost a vote like me, I'd say it's not been that effective.

Maybe there's a Third Act that can get a voter like me back... time will tell.

As the Christian gay here, it is quite true that y'all hate us.

The feeling is mutual, r138.

I get it, R137. What is he to do? POC, what does Pete need to do to do for you feel better about him personally? Is it too late for him in your eyes? I do recall that when the African American community voted against Prop 8, this questions was asked to either Al Sharpton or Rev Jesse Jackson on NPR I think. Their response was that the gay community had needed to spend more focus in African American churches to convey the message, really targeting that demo with information, which they felt we had not given enough attention to. Someone else said that maybe Pete just needs to focus on all the white voters on the fence. With their support that might carry him.

R140 Prop 8 has nothing to do with Pete and his effective outreach to voters of color. That "we" (I am a white gay man) ascribe homophobia as a root of the problem, is itself part of the problem.

What is the problem, R141? I am asking sincerely and not w/ snark.

R141 Pete’s handling of the situation with a white cop killing a black man a few months back is what is burying him with black voters. As much as people like to cover their ears and make up fake stats, law enforcement is a SERIOUS problem for black people and is an issue that most black people would be a “single issue voter” over.

The way people try to treat the black community as a monolith is also a problem. White people have no problem differentiating themselves between liberals and MAGAtards, conservative Christian and atheist, etc, etc. Homophobia isn’t an issue in the black community, it’s an issue in America. There’s more white people in middle America and sprinkled in the big cities that display homophobic tendencies than in the black community, guaranteed.

R134, thanks for posting that photo. I don't understand how an unattractive man like him got in a widespread ad campaign. Maybe it was due to his visibility in the community?

To be fair, Sullivan's ad predated the gay HIV/AIDS crisis by about 18 years. Bi and gay men started getting sick and going to their graves in the 1970s. The CDC first published in 1981 or so. HIV/AIDS was in the USA before it received attention from the medical community and long before the general public knew. Thank goodness I avoided it and STIs. If anyone is sexually active, proper use of condoms is a requirement.

I won't pontificate. but generally, today's generations believe antibiotics, antivirals, and PReP will protect them. Nothing could be further from the truth. A "super strain" of HIV that rapidly progresses to AIDS has been discovered in Cuba. Why there, I have no idea. That's well beyond my expertise. It's too late for Sullivan and many other. Sullivan is a cad.

Apologies for not scrolling thru, but R6 and any other like you really ought to take the hint from Leader Pelosi. “Hate” is a word we should really be working to remove from our vocabulary.

Even if you’re a fucking Baptist, you shouldn’t be looking up from your bingo card to spout off how much you hate some frau or queen or tranny. Just don’t.

And Methodists should just be happy they’ve got some other poor dead soul to drink with

Or is it the other way around. Fuck it. Just don’t hate.

Fat bald pig who takes milky loads from all comers under the Provincetown boardwalk.

R145, thanks, I agree. Hate and anger make people sick physically and emotionally. I know that not because it's any fictional religious text, but because I experienced it, got myself treated and recovered.

My mother and I were Catholic. Catholics loved their bingo! Don't know about today. One of my grandmothers was Methodist. The Methodist religion does not permit its followers to drink any alcohol, not even at their version of communion, although allegedly, Jesus and his disciples broke bread and had wine at the last supper!

Just my 2 cents. Thanks and don't hate. Take positive action against people who hate and take away our rights and others' human rights!

Aren't all elections about the gays nowadays?

R148 that's false and absolutely preposterous. Gay people are about 10% of the population. When bisexuals like me are added, that percentage grows substantially. You're probably in the dark (intentionally) and uneducated about issues that matter. You also probably shouldn't be on this site.

R147

"The Methodist religion does not permit its followers to drink any alcohol..."

Since when, R147? Way back when? I know plenty of Methodists who drink. If you mean strictly in church services, okay, but it's hardly Islam when it comes to alcohol.

R150, I suspect the Methodists to whom you refer claim to be Methodists, but really aren't. That's common in all religions, as I know a fine Arabic man who drinks more than a fish, but observes Muslim holy days. Muslims are not permitted any alcohol. That doesn't mean all comply. My grandparents were strict Methodists and never touched a drop of alcohol. Two Methodist ministers came to visit my father's private room on his deathbed and I talked to them even though our entire family except him is Catholic. They assured me that was still Methodist doctrine, which is why I said what's in my 1st line. Please consult a practicing, observant Methodist minister and ask if that doctrine has been changed recently, which may be possible.

R147

I guarantee you that are plenty of Methodists who drink, just as there are multitudes of Catholics who practice birth control. What the laws say and what people do because they want to live their lives normally are two different things. And it's all the fault of religion.

R152 aha! Well an observant Catholic does not use birth control. According to religion, it has no faults, only its followers.

Which means there are very few observant Catholics. And of course, that's the line religion always tries to sell: infallibility, despite the fact that all religions are man-made constructs.

R154, when I was a Catholic, I was always an observant Catholic. So I stopped being Catholic at age 14. As George Carlin said, "I was Catholic until I reached the age of reason." Not saying I never sinned, but when I did, I went to confession. A Methodist who drinks alcohol isn't a Methodist at all. A Catholic who uses birth control isn't a practicing or observant Catholic, that's a hypocrite, which is the point I've made. People like those need to leave their current churches and find another church/religion or none at all!!

Methodists might have frowned on drinking generations ago, but not now.

There are conservative aNd fundamentalist Methodists. Globally, Methodism is quite conservative and getting even Moreso. The only growing sector of Methodism is evangelical or even Pentecostalish.

R155, the Catholic updates its "rules" every generation, so what an "observant" Catholic is can change with the rules.

Mayo Pete volunteers with the Salvation Army? Like there aren’t thousands of other charities that are available? And, he wasn’t aware of their anti-gay policies?

🙄

Not ready for prime time.

Andrew Sullivan is probably not getting the milky loads he once had. Older men losing their hair taking propecia have a side effect of clear loads. So I am told.

Milky Loads, I'm sorry you seroconverted from riding a tractor in a Speedo but Baby Jesus doesn't like diseased whores.

Andrew Sullivan is a bizarre, AIDS-riddled, Reagan-loving, right wing WHORE, AND a RETARD!

Obama should have deported her diseased ass back to England before they changed that law! We were THIS CLOSE to being rid of her skank ass!!!

Milky Loads Sullivan was just on Hard Ball a minute ago. He is so full of cum I cant believe it. Making all sorts of Trumpian statements about the Democrats and open boarders. Speaking of which, can we deport him already?

I read Sully had denounced the Catholic Church in which he was raised. Maybe he's an Episcopalian now. Which is no kind of church at all.

R164 The Episcopalian Church is the foundation for Christianity to bridge into the 22nd Century.

The gay left wants to not be persecuted or discriminated against by Christians.

The Episcopalians are losing members faster than any other denomination, R165.

R167 maybe because Episcopalians were known as friendly to Catholics when I was young? There were several of them in my catholic high school.

No, because when you make religion identical to the secular world people lose interest, R168. I might as well go the park on Sunday and pick up trash if I wanted to do good deeds.

I went to an Episcopal service when I was in London in September. OMG, it was the most awful “woke” event I have ever witnessed. I left halfway through — and it was almost an hour in with no end in sight. The music was beyond dreadful. No wonder the place was nearly empty.

No because Christians perceive Episcopalians as unbiblical and contrary to historic, traditional beliefs and practice

I find it difficult to believe he would renounce Catholicism.

R171 I never went to one of their services. I was only told they were the closest Protestant sect to Catholicism. I left the Catholic Church when I was 15. Sounds like R170 had a very bad experience I never had. I just hated reciting that damned creed where we basically said only we're going to heaven... that's how I interpreted it.

R173, have your read the Bible? Christianity is a creed of exclusivity

R174, have I read it? In catholic school we had religion class every day! Yes, I know, but Christianity has many sects.

But most importantly Jesus Himself Who founded the faith says you only go to heaven if you believe in Him. It shouldn’t be shocking that Christians day the same

R171 You are making that disturbing error that is so prevalent - you are saying "Christian" when what you mean is "conservative Evangelical Christians", or "fundamentalist Christians", or (in my more uncharitable moments I'd say:) "right wing cultish heretical Christians." Those very conservative factions claim "biblical" superiority, but in actuality the apostolic Churches (Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Coptic, Anglican, Episcopalian) also claim a scriptural authority that would point to the apostasy of those errant offshoots, were they not ecumenical in nature. More Evangelical theology is 200 years of quirky biblical interpretation in a 2000 year history of the religion.

Finally a non Evangelical shit show explanation of Christianity.

Thanks r177

Andrew Sullivan would really, really, really love it if conservatives weren't complete pieces of shit that would actually like him. They are, and they won't. Andrew Sullivan should stop. The whole act is stale. He should rewatch Gypsy. It just ain't happening honey.

Sullivan is the ugly little gay altar boy who WANTED to be molested but was passed over.

Methodists is for Episcopalians who got tired of squattin' and Baptist who wanted to go back to drinkin' but didn't wanna get judged.

R181, maybe I'm confused, but the Methodist religion does not permit consumption of alcohol.

R180, I know you're making a joke, but I was the altar boy who was molested. I got therapy on my own and I'm fine now. Not to be conceited, but I'm better-looking than that jerk Sullivan. How he got in a Gap ad, I'll never know. I saw his profile from BBnow or whatever. He had a good body and a bigger dick, but those irrelevant in a Gap ad. He bragged about his muscle ass, but it was ugly, IMHO.

"HardnSolidDC" and that he had placed the following ad on barebackcity.com:

"DC Male 35 5'9" 198 32w 45c 17a 19neck big hairy thighs; squatting 8 plates. solid bodybuilder, 10 percent body-fat; huge shoulders, strong, hairy b*tt; semi-bearded. into: hairy, endowed, masculine men. always 4.20. vers/top brothers welcome. uncut a plus. Hiv+ here. Healthy undetectable. chem-unfriendly; no such thing as too hairy."

June 21, 2001 -nowtoronto.com/news

For someone who takes a lot of milky loads, his teeth sure are yellow on TV.

Actually in his youth Sully was a passable GAP model. Wonder what was on his GAP playlist.

R185, maybe below the neck!

Globally, Christianity is growing at a 1.27% rate. Currently, there are 2.5 billion Christians in the world. The world’s population, 7.7 billion, is growing at a 1.20% rate.

Islam (1.95%), Sikhs (1.66%) and Hindus (1.30%) are the only religious groups growing faster than Christianity, though followers of Jesus outnumber every other faith and are predicted to continue to do so at least through 2050. Among Christian groups, Pentecostals (2.26%) and evangelicals (2.19%) are growing faster than others.

They are both also growing faster than they did just two years ago. In 2017, Pentecostals’ growth rate was 2.22% and evangelicals was 2.12%.

There are fewer atheists in the world today (138 million) than there were in 1970 (165 million).

The most extraordinary Christian growth over the past century has come in Africa: home to 8.7 million Christians in 1900, 542 million today, and perhaps 1.2 billion by 2050, when there will be as many African Christians as Latin American and European Christians combined. Twenty-first century Christianity is also a far more urban reality than a century ago. In 1900, 29 percent of the world’s Christian population lived in cities; it’s 65 percent today, although that’s projected to decline to 59 percent by 2050. But perhaps the most astonishing numbers involve Pentecostal and Charismatic Christians. There were 981,000 of these souls in 1900; there are 643,661,000 of them today; and there are projected to be over one billion Charismatics and Pentecostals in 2050. In raw numbers, then, Charismatic and Pentecostal Christianity is the fastest growing phenomenon in world religious history.

The Methodists I have known drink alcohol openly, not furtively.

American Modern United Methodists can drink. However, the black Methodists (CME, AME, AME Zion) and global Methodists are largely conservative and evangelical and largely frown upon or denounce drinking as sinful or unChristian.

R187 I think many of your data capturing trends of the past 30 years, but those trends are changing. Evangelicals and Pentecostals are growing in large part because of the "southern hemisphere" phenomenon. Odd things like Latin Americans converting to Evangelical Christianity because of a feeling of socio-economical advancement - more modern and middle class to be evangelical than catholic. Guatemala with more than 50% evangelical now - unfortunately leading to a repressive, corrupt, proto-fascist dictatorship. It's sad that the evangelical-political intersection feeds some pretty horrendous autocracies (Bolsonaro in Brazil, etc.). The growth rates of southern hemisphere Christianity and the other "growth" religions (Hindu, Muslim) are largely due to birthrates.

In the northern hemisphere Christianity is trending down. even evangelical are losing the younger generations.

R191, thanks for sharing. Americans 18-25 simply shall not tolerate that batshit crazy stuff. They might be attached to evil devices and lack social skills, but they won't buy the GOP and christianity because they know both are evil and without logical basis. Nobody can produce any evidence that "God" or "Jesus" existed or exists. Science proved how the Earth and we were created. The fact that 1/3 of Americans believes in angels shows how ludicrous they are, but that's their right to believe. Nobody is pulling me into that black hole. I have an intact, intelligent, independent mind capable of logical thought. Case closed.

[quote]I have an intact, intelligent, independent mind capable of logical thought. Case closed.

Well, if your mind is closed then you are not scientific at all. Not saying there is a sky god who gives a shit that you won another football game or Grammy award. However, we have only been on the planet for a few thousand years, real field in science about 400 years. Imagine what we might know 1000, 2000, 10,000 years from now if we are still around. There may indeed be a force or some kind of thing we cant even comprehend now that dominates the universe.

R193, as a former acquaintance and respected business owner pointed out, Earth was formed billions of years ago. His grandmother is a bible-beater and insists the world is only several thousand years old because the Bible says so and was written by God, Jesus and his Apostles and that's final! The real truth is that the Bible and every other "religious text" were written to control people. Religion and spirituality are different. I'm still on a spiritual journey.

The scientific method states that with a hypothesis, everyone must present evidence to prove that beyond a shadow of a doubt. Otherwise, every hypothesis is null, meaning it's false. Science has proven how Earth was created, how all living things were created and how humans evolved.

Science once thought our closest relatives are standard Chimpanzees. They're not. Our closest relatives are primates called Bonobos. They're the only beings other than humans who have sex in the missionary position and kiss each other while having sex. Their DNA is only about 1% different from humans.

My mind will remain open, but not to organized religion. The US Constitution grants freedom of religion, freedom from religion, and what I insist on most, SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. Crazy extremists refuse to recognize our Constitution. They're called evangelical christians and other things. They must be neutralized like all criminals and threats to our America.

R192

[quote]There may indeed be a force or some kind of thing we cant even comprehend now that dominates the universe.

It is called willful ignorance.

R195, I won't agree or disagree with that, but you may have a point.

There is a big difference between a bible-beater grandmother and an open mind r194. I totally agree in separation of church and state as you even noted in your response, science is always changing based on what we learn and you should always have an open mind to it. When I was a kid, an Atom with Neutrons and Protons were the smallest particle known to man. They though science was done there. Now we have string theory, subatomic particles, quarks and particles that seem to appear and disappear into other dimensions scientist think.

The left hates Christians but has a fetish for Muslims.

The left dose not hate Christians or Muslims, the left is a big tent that includes them. Unlike the right which is run by religious wingnuts.

The left believes, rightly, that the establishment clause of the Constitution prohibits favoring Christianity over other religions.

Evangelical Christians believe otherwise.

I GIVE MILKY LOADS AND I TAKE MILKY LOADS

R198, R199, R200, you people are intent on labels! I do not identify with the "left" or the "right"! The world is not black and white! If crazy people think all Americans are Democrat or Republican, you are mistaken! Intelligent people such as I are disgusted with both parties! Decent countries with decent people like Holland and Germany have many political parties which must cooperate/build coalitions to accomplish matters. Last year, Germany operated for 24 hours on its own energy. Not a drop of foreign oil or imported energy. We Germans know how to get important matters accomplished without childish bickering! To remain on topic about religion, long ago German banned Scientology!

R192/R194

[quote]We Germans know how to get important matters accomplished without childish bickering!

LOL Yeah, you just throw them in the ovens!

R192, you’re wrong. 72% of Americans believe in angels.

It is worth noting, however, that while over half of all Americans aged 13 and older say they are absolutely certain there is a God, teens are more likely than adults to feel this way (58% teens vs. 53% adults).

These are some of the results of The Harris Poll® of 2,463 U.S. adults aged 18+ and 510 teens aged 13-17 surveyed online between July 14 and 27, 2016.

Just under three quarters of Americans (74% teens, 73% adults) believe in Heaven, followed by seven in ten who believe in angels (71%, 70% respectively).

When it comes to the devil’s domain, 65% of teens believe in Hell, a six-percentage point jump on the 59% of adults who feel the same. In addition, just under six in ten Americans believe in the Devil (59% teens, 58% adults).

And when it comes to what’s deep inside, over six in ten Americans (61% teens, 64% adults) believe the soul survives after death, while 19% of teens and about a quarter of adults (26%) believe in reincarnation.

Not surprisingly, most members of the evangelical Protestant tradition (83%) see themselves as born-again or evangelical Christians, as do most members of the historically black Protestant tradition (72%) and a sizable minority of people in the mainline Protestant tradition (27%). Many Christians who do not identify with Protestantism also consider themselves born-again or evangelical Christians, including 22% of Catholics, 18% of Orthodox Christians, 23% of Mormons and 24% of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Not surprisingly, most members of the evangelical Protestant tradition (83%) see themselves as born-again or evangelical Christians, as do most members of the historically black Protestant tradition (72%) and a sizable minority of people in the mainline Protestant tradition (27%). Many Christians who do not identify with Protestantism also consider themselves born-again or evangelical Christians, including 22% of Catholics, 18% of Orthodox Christians, 23% of Mormons and 24% of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

The Pew survey shows a definite decline in weekly churchgoing, alongside the growing disaffiliation of people who once would have been loosely attached to churches and denominations — cultural Catholics, Christmas-and-Easter Methodists, Jack Mormons and the like. But recent Gallup numbers indicate that reported weekly and almost-weekly church attendance has only “edged down” lately, falling to 38 percent in 2017 from 42 percent in 2008 — a smaller drop than the big decline in affiliation reported by Pew. And long-term Gallup data suggest that any recent dip in churchgoing is milder than the steep decline in the 1960s — and that today’s churchgoing rate isn’t that different from the rate in the 1930s and 1940s, before the postwar religious boom.

The relative stability of the Gallup data fits with analysis offered by the sociologists Landon Schnabel and Sean Bock in a 2017 paper, “The Persistent and Exceptional Intensity of American Religion.” Drawing on the General Social Survey, they argued that the recent decline of institutional religion is entirely a function of the formerly weakly affiliated ceasing to identify with religious bodies entirely; for the strongly affiliated (just over a third of the American population), the trend between 1990 and the present is a flat line, their numbers neither growing nor collapsing but holding steady across an era of supposedly dramatic religious change.

That resilience should not be entirely comforting for Christian churches, since both their everyday work and their cultural influence depends on reaching beyond their core adherents, and inspiring a mix of sympathy and interest among people who aren’t at worship every week. Indeed, combining an enduring core of belief with a general falling-away could make the Christian position permanently embattled, tempting the pious to paranoia and misguided alliances while the wider culture becomes more anticlerical, more like 19th-century secular liberalism in its desire to batter down the redoubts of traditional belief.

But for now that resilience also puts some limits on how successfully anti-Christian policies can be pursued, how easily religious conservatism can be marginalized within the conservative coalition (not easily) and how completely the liberal coalition can be secularized — not completely at all, so long as its base remains heavily African-American and Hispanic. (The tragic racial polarization of American Christianity, in this sense, may have one positive effect: preventing a complete polarization of our politics between Christian and post-Christian coalitions.)

If he walks done a path and turns to the right he will be criticized. Silly.

Who is an orthodox Christian? I've never met one in my 55 years on earth

Russian, Greek, Ukrainian, Romanian, Serbia have Eastern Orthodox Churches

Uniate Romanians are a tricky lot as they are outwardly Orthodox but theologically Roman Catholic.

Why does Orthodox seem to be so political?

r213, because it is not based on western philosophies of self determination and work ethic.

The Orthodox world is a shit storm of temptation that you pass through for eternal reward. They are not really attached to this world.

They have been trained to ACCEPT their lot in life.

Pathetic, truly.

And now the Russian Orthodox Church is run by a fucking Russian Oligarch. Kirill is an old Russian KGB operative of Putin's.

He's worth BILLIONS. Cash.

Christians should be thrown in boiling oil starting with the children.

R215, you speak demonic and anti-Christ language.

That's because I don't believe in the big sky god and really don't like Christians.

Who cares? Can we get back to how pathetic Milky Loads Sulivan?