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How did Warren collapse?

Was it from the Colbert appearance?

by Anonymousreply 140December 13, 2019 10:40 AM

She was on Colbert?

She got hot too quickly and her campaign hated that, by the way. She should have more organic growth from now on.

by Anonymousreply 1December 3, 2019 2:46 AM

Yes r1. And he made her squirm because she wouldn't answer if taxes will go up. He was pretty tough on her. Then Chris Matthews did the same thing a few days later.

by Anonymousreply 2December 3, 2019 2:51 AM

It was her smug supporters. You couldn't have any honest criticism of her without them being annoying assholes.

by Anonymousreply 3December 3, 2019 2:59 AM

She hasn't collapsed, but has definitely lost ground, some to the center and some to the left. As a thread a couple of weeks ago suggested, many consider her a fauxgressive and are sticking with or moving to Sanders. I think she would be a great President, and hope she can make gains as the number of candidates is whittled down.

Recent attack in The Guardian.

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by Anonymousreply 4December 3, 2019 3:03 AM

She's a woman and kinda dorky and hokey. I don't think she'll last.

by Anonymousreply 5December 3, 2019 3:08 AM

She's been shown to be a liar.

by Anonymousreply 6December 3, 2019 3:10 AM

She hasn't collapsed, but I think her dip in the polls is mostly about M4A. Most moderates don't want it to happen at all and many progressives are pissed that Warren has (realistically, IMO) decided it needs to be rolled out gradually over a few years. I personally think they're nuts to imagine that any candidate, if elected, could just snap her/his fingers and usher in M4A within weeks or months of taking office. The one thing I'd really enjoy about seeing Bernie elected (and yes I will vote for him if it comes down to that) is watching what his hardcore bots do when they realize few to none of his ideas will ever be implemented.

by Anonymousreply 7December 3, 2019 3:10 AM

If Kamala, a far more capable contender can collapse, it is not at all bizzare that Warren can also. I think that we are set on Biden now - like it or not. Sanders is a long shot and Pete is even longer. But nothing means anything until votes start to flow in from one state to the next (February 3 and soon after).

by Anonymousreply 8December 3, 2019 3:14 AM

I really wonder how Warren would be doing if she'd stuck to being a boring technocrat like she was throughout her career. Boring technocrats are boring, but they're authentic, and Warren's uber-woke pandering is an obvious pack of lies. I mean, who does she think her voters are? Republicans? Most Democrats are too smart to fall for such obvious asskissing.

by Anonymousreply 9December 3, 2019 4:07 AM

Shitty incompetent staffers. I know one of them and she’s dumber than a box of rocks.

by Anonymousreply 10December 3, 2019 4:21 AM

"Collapse" is a strong word atp. She's not done yet. With Bloomberg now in the ring, she has a tailor-made target for her. We haven't seen her fiery side as a presidential candidate that we have as a senator, so ... I'll wait for that, thanks.

by Anonymousreply 11December 3, 2019 4:35 AM

R3 I think you have confused Bernie Sanders' supporters for hers.

R5 R6 Thanks for the hod takes.

R9 That's your very cynical take which has nothing to do with who she really is.

At the end of the day, the centrist, corporate media is scared of her. I hope she prevails. We'll see.

by Anonymousreply 12December 3, 2019 4:40 AM

I think voters realized her M4A would get hammered in a general election and voters backed away. She should have copied petes plan, getting rid of private insurance ain't gonna fly.

by Anonymousreply 13December 3, 2019 4:47 AM

R12

Politics are a cynical endeavor.

All Warren has cared about for years is regulating Wall Street and now suddenly she's on board with reparations and legalizing prostitution? Come on. Her picking up every inconsequential woke issue is not remotely who she is. She isn't naturally a panderer, which is part of the reason the voters are souring to it.

So, I guess you're right; this isn't who Warren is. She should go back to being her authentic self. Maybe then she'd connect to voters.

And I say this as someone who desperately wanted her to run ten years ago. Her campaign thus far has been an embarrassment, and it's unlikely she'll recover.

by Anonymousreply 14December 3, 2019 4:59 AM

[quote]You couldn't have any honest criticism of her without them being annoying assholes.

EVERYONE’S supporters are exactly the same way. No one accepts any kind criticism of their candidate.

by Anonymousreply 15December 3, 2019 5:04 AM

She might as well turn it in. She hasn't collapsed yet, but there's no going back up for her, in my opinion.

R7 and R13 are correct, it's about Medicare for All, which almost everyone wants, but even if she could make it happen all at once, and of course, she can't, how the fuck did she think people would react to the idea of killing the insurance industry in one fell swoop?

She really thought people would go for laying off tens of thousands of employees and making everyone in the whole fucking country younger than 65 lose their insurance and get something new?

How is medicare supposed to gear up for a couple hundred million new subscribers? Where are all the insurance industry employees going to work? How high would unemployment skyrocket with all those newly jobless people?

While Biden and the media were trying to make her say she would raise taxes on the middle class, Pete knocked her feet out from under her by saying Medicare for All who want it. It immediately made vastly more sense and sounded like something that, though a challenge, might be doable.

Now she's in the position where trying to walk it back makes her look weak and affirms her original plan was stupid. But she can't really just say, "Yes, that was dumb, I was wrong, Pete has a better plan." But she doesn't have to say it, everyone knows it.

I don't think there's any way out of that predicament that gains any support for her. It was a stroke of gen

by Anonymousreply 16December 3, 2019 5:05 AM

R16 here. Ignore that last unfinished sentence. It was going to be part of the idea about Pete's idea no only being better but also having the effect of leaving her at the side of the road with no vehicle to get home in.

by Anonymousreply 17December 3, 2019 5:09 AM

[quote]EVERYONE’S supporters are exactly the same way. No one accepts any kind criticism of their candidate.

Let's be real here, the Bernie people are the worst.

[quote]She might as well turn it in. She hasn't collapsed yet, but there's no going back up for her, in my opinion.

We've been a "top" slot tug-o-war for months now with the exception of Biden who has remained at the one or two spot in most areas. Otherwise Warren is down and up and down. Pete is down and up and down. Sanders is the same.

We still have a couple of months to go, with the next debate on December 19th, anything can and will happen.

(And anything "will" happen if we ever narrow the field. Right now we're down to 6ish candidates qualifying for the debate.)

by Anonymousreply 18December 3, 2019 5:09 AM

Warren didn't "collapse", OP is a TROLL

by Anonymousreply 19December 3, 2019 5:26 AM

i love elizabeth warren. Also, I love Bernie sanders too. I want either of these two to be our next President. They are already well respected Us Senators. Common on America, Let do this1

by Anonymousreply 20December 3, 2019 5:32 AM

Good, more for Pete!

by Anonymousreply 21December 3, 2019 5:44 AM

R14 "And I say this as someone who desperately wanted her to run ten years ago. Her campaign thus far has been an embarrassment." You wanted her to unseat Obama. That would have been a fool's errand. Okay, cool. But, an embarrassment? That is some grade-A hyperbole.

R16 "how the fuck did she think people would react to the idea of killing the insurance industry in one fell swoop?" "One fell swoop" is Bernie not her. Read up.

R18, R19, R20 Thank you.

by Anonymousreply 22December 3, 2019 5:55 AM

She has not collapsed. News organizations are ridiculous fools, they really are. Their predictions are usually absurd.

by Anonymousreply 23December 3, 2019 6:07 AM

Who is saying she has "collapsed"? The only collapsing I've been reading about is Kamala's campaign, and even there, no one is ready to declare her dead and buried.

by Anonymousreply 24December 3, 2019 7:07 AM

Kamala is my choice; I hope that she comes back kicking. Most likely, she will be a VP pic for Biden.

by Anonymousreply 25December 3, 2019 7:29 AM

I mean she's still in 3rd place in a race where all the main candidates have big flaws and with months until voting. But her whole climb in the polls was based on "I have a plan", and then she balked on healthcare and it ruined her image and made her look indecisive/uncertain. Her supporters have gone to Pete, but he is still yet to really be tested as a front runner.

by Anonymousreply 26December 3, 2019 8:14 AM

She's down to ten percent in the latest Hill/Harris poll, which is the lowest she's registered by far in a national poll in months (she was at fifteen in their prior survey). I wouldn't say she's collapsed but she's sure floundering to say the least.

Why? What really turned her off to me was not just her m4a stance but even more so the lack of candor and the style with which she completely ignored people's questions about how it would be paid for , awkwardly pivoting while trying to pretend she wasn't. "Look, here's how I see it....blah ,blah, blah." Uh, no, you look--you were just asked a direct question. It felt very fake, arrogant and insulting, and I think it affected a lot of people's perception of her.

And yes Colbert highlighted that quite acutely but it was already a growing issue. She was also called out by numerous candidates in the debate. After all that, it didn't/doesn't matter that she suddenly has an answer, even if it was a great one, because she seems even more inauthentic pretending that the answer is something organic that she had been thinking of all along and that she's excited to share, when it's clearly reactive and she was obviously reluctantly forced to scramble for it by all the criticism.

by Anonymousreply 27December 3, 2019 8:53 AM

[quote]It was her smug supporters. You couldn't have any honest criticism of her without them being annoying assholes.

Ugh, god, that's pretty much EVERY candidate's supporters, though. Between the trolls and the idiots who think they have to act like trolls to make a point, there are almost no sane supporters for any candidate to be found anywhere online.

by Anonymousreply 28December 3, 2019 8:56 AM

CNN analysis.

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by Anonymousreply 29December 3, 2019 9:50 AM

It's sexist and unfortunate, but she's off-putting to millions of people who would agree with her if they didn't dislike her and tune her out mentally.

It's the same reason so many people hated Hillary.

It's not feminine.

A man that strident and humorless would not rate as high on the unlikeability scale. Unfair, yes, but that's America.

Plus, if she didn't want to kill the insurance industry in one fell swoop, she made everyone think she did. How many voters do you think are going to go read her policy papers when the words they watched her speak made them think she was going to take their insurance away from them?

by Anonymousreply 30December 3, 2019 1:27 PM

I think AOC endorsing Bernie has done more damage to Warren than people previously assumed. The super left mostly all fled over to his side.

by Anonymousreply 31December 3, 2019 1:27 PM

Warren was doing well until she unveiled the untenable M4A position. It has NOTHING to do with sexism, but it's a convenient excuse for her supporters to try to explain why her her socialist positions aren't going over as they had hoped. Bernie was crucified for it last time; now it's her turn. The American people won't accept socialism as espoused by a man or a woman.

by Anonymousreply 32December 3, 2019 1:39 PM

She tried to have it both ways with M4A. At least Bernie is upfront about how it’s going to be paid for. Not to mention her pandering got out of control. When she said that she would issue an executive order to allow tranny refugees ALL come to the US no questions asked I knew she truly lost it.

by Anonymousreply 33December 3, 2019 1:51 PM

Did she collapse, really? Or is this a rumour seed planted by someone working for the president or Vladimir so we give up on Senator Warren?

My understanding is that Senator Warren is in the top 4 and that these rankings and polls seem to change on a daily basis.

by Anonymousreply 34December 3, 2019 2:18 PM

She’s a Massachusetts politician. Losing is what they do. Americans have a strong bias against any politician from Massachusetts, and it’s getting even stronger.

by Anonymousreply 35December 3, 2019 2:23 PM

Reality is setting in. The center will hold.

by Anonymousreply 36December 3, 2019 2:26 PM

Yeah, Warrenists tend to not care about her lack of appeal among mainstream Swing state Americans.

by Anonymousreply 37December 3, 2019 2:32 PM

People want a strong man (or woman) president. This is why most presidents have been Governors. This is why Moderates/Indies like Tulsi relative to liberal support. It's also why they support Biden, though the more he talks...

Wonky Senators don't cut the mustard. And, yes, that includes Senator/Secretary Hillary Clinton.

The exception is Obama, but that was wanting to heal after near a decade of exhausting war and corruption. Mayor Pete is filling that role (and it drives so many people batshit). None of these Senators (Warren/Sanders/Harris/Booker/Klobuchar) will be President.

by Anonymousreply 38December 3, 2019 2:39 PM

How can Warren collapse be attributed to sexism when she was leading the polls just a few weeks ago ? So there was no sexism when she was ascending but suddenly people became sexists in the last few weeks ? It just doesnt make sense.

Similarly how can Harris claim that its racism and sexism that has caused her fall down the polls ? Were sexism and racism not present when she was anointed as the frontrunner ?

by Anonymousreply 39December 3, 2019 2:42 PM

Good thing her collapse happened now, before winning the nomination and going down to resounding defeat in the general.

by Anonymousreply 40December 3, 2019 2:45 PM

You're not going anywhere without the DNC behind you. Just ask Bernie.

by Anonymousreply 41December 3, 2019 2:47 PM

I always hated the whole “woke Grandma” persona built around her by her supporters/Twitter. Similar can be said of Bernie too.

by Anonymousreply 42December 3, 2019 3:26 PM

Yeah Woke Professor Grandmas win New England, New York, California, maybe Washington, but they lose big elsewhere

by Anonymousreply 43December 3, 2019 3:29 PM

You’re also not going anywhere without Democratic voters behind you. That’s these people’s real problem.

I think some of the Pete growth is because of the same thing that happened in the Ukraine. Massive corruption in the last administration. The people were so fed up they voted in an actor that played a President on TV. No previous experience. Then they changed out 80% of their equivalent of Congress, which probably means most of those people are inexperienced too. And they cleaned up a lot of the corruption. What they needed to do is put fresh blood in, people that were not connected in any way to the previous corruption. And yes, it’s a risk, but that’s all they could do really.

On the face of it, that sounds like a recipe for disaster. But when the corruption is so broad and ingrained in government, the only thing to do is throw them all out and start over.

Now we see even long term Congress members like Lindsey Graham totally change their stance because they are obviously on the take. And most likely at least some of these other people are being blackmailed too.

I think part of Pete’s appeal is that he’s not in Congress, and therefore not on the Russian payroll. And his military service means, in theory at least, he’s loyal to the United States. A lot of people realize, at least subconsciously, that a coup already happened, and we need to look for people that weren’t in on it. I think that’s why Biden is doing as well as he is too.

I think years from now, when it all comes out, people are going to find most of the Republicans and some of the Democrats were taking Russian money. They should all be tried for treason, but they never will. The best we can hope for is that somebody makes a deathbed confession, maybe years after they’re all retired.

by Anonymousreply 44December 3, 2019 3:34 PM

[quote]I think years from now, when it all comes out, people are going to find most of the Republicans and some of the Democrats were taking Russian money.

Whomever could you be referring to R44?

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by Anonymousreply 45December 3, 2019 3:54 PM

Or maybe this guy, r45...

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by Anonymousreply 46December 3, 2019 3:59 PM

With Harris dropping out of the race her supporters will apparently go to Warren and then Mayor Pete.

So things will change once again soon.

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by Anonymousreply 47December 3, 2019 6:33 PM

Elizabeth Warren has collapsed!

I was trotting along and suddenly

it started raining and snowing

and you said it was hailing

but hailing hits you on the head

hard so it was really snowing and

raining and I was in such a hurry

to meet you but the traffic

was acting exactly like the sky

and suddenly I see a headline

ELIZABETH WARREN HAS COLLAPSED!

there is no snow in Hollywood

there is no rain in California

I have been to lots of parties

and acted perfectly disgraceful

but I never actually collapsed

oh Elizabeth Warren we love you get up

by Anonymousreply 48December 3, 2019 6:36 PM

What is that, r48? Not getting the reference.

by Anonymousreply 49December 3, 2019 10:04 PM

[quote]A man that strident and humorless would not rate as high on the unlikeability scale.

I don't get Elizabeth Warren as "humorless" at all. She's actually pretty funny. Strident, maybe. But not humorless.

by Anonymousreply 50December 3, 2019 10:05 PM

My vote would go to any Democratic candidate except Sanders or Tulsi. They freak me out. They seem like Russian assets.

by Anonymousreply 51December 3, 2019 10:20 PM

Warren and Harris collapsed because:

It was just one of those things

Just one of those crazy flings

One of those bells that now and then rings

Just one of those things

It was just one of those nights

Just one of those fabulous flights

A trip to the moon on gossamer wings

Just one of those things

If we'd thought a bit before the end of it

When we started painting the town

We'd have been aware that our love affair

Was too hot not to cool down

So good-bye, dear, and amen

Here's hoping we meet now and then

It was great fun

But it was just one of those things

by Anonymousreply 52December 3, 2019 10:24 PM

"People want a strong man (or woman) president. This is why most presidents have been Governors. "

No, Pee Wee. Being a governor is an executive job - being president is an executive job. It's a good fit, that's why more governors (used to) run than candidates in congress. And congressional members are not any less "strong" than governors.

by Anonymousreply 53December 3, 2019 10:50 PM

R50, you're right. I wrote that, and as I was writing it, I thought it was not exactly the best wording, because I think she's pretty funny, too. But I also thought Hillary was very funny at times, and most people seemed to think she was humorless.

It does seem to me there's something about her humor that most people don't get, or maybe it's only funny to people who agree with her already and don't have to be convinced that what they call far-left ideology is really just basic common sense.

Thank you for pointing out my error in a polite way.

By the way, I happen to be an enrolled citizen of Cherokee Nation, and I disagree with my fellow Cherokees about her background. I won't go into it here, because it would be a long and complicated essay that non-Natives just aren't likely ever to get, because they don't understand the background and context without a voluminous explanation, and it's irrelevant here and I don't want to hijack the thread.

by Anonymousreply 54December 3, 2019 11:09 PM

Unfortunately, it's what R6 said.

by Anonymousreply 55December 3, 2019 11:09 PM

"But I also thought Hillary was very funny at times, and most people seemed to think she was humorless."

People always say that about female candidates, as if humor had something to do with the job.

by Anonymousreply 56December 4, 2019 2:53 AM

Insider polls show that the majority of Americans will vote for anyone in the Democratic Party to get rid of orange hitler.

If it is Warren, Americans will vote for her.

If it is Bernie Sanders, Americans will vote for him.

These two are the front runners. They do not get the best coverage on TV/mainstream media. Many of the polls are messaging polls that manipulate the interviewee. If you factor this in, both Warren and Sanders are higher and have a better chance of beating trump. In some polls, you have to opt out of the poll question and state your preference for Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren and Universal Health Care. It is unreal, but so many American are doing this.

by Anonymousreply 57December 4, 2019 4:20 AM

[quote]The only collapsing I've been reading about is Kamala's campaign, and even there, no one is ready to declare her dead and buried.

'cept Kamala

by Anonymousreply 58December 4, 2019 4:58 AM

Everyone finally realized who she reminds them of?

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by Anonymousreply 59December 4, 2019 5:00 AM

Ms Bening not Mrs Beasley

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by Anonymousreply 60December 4, 2019 5:07 AM

R57, thank you.

[quote]Insider polls show that the majority of Americans will vote for anyone in the Democratic Party to get rid of orange hitler.

[quote]If it is Warren, Americans will vote for her.

[quote]If it is Bernie Sanders, Americans will vote for him.

[quote]These two are the front runners. They do not get the best coverage on TV/mainstream media. Many of the polls are messaging polls that manipulate the interviewee. If you factor this in, both Warren and Sanders are higher and have a better chance of beating trump. In some polls, you have to opt out of the poll question and state your preference for Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren and Universal Health Care. It is unreal, but so many American are doing this.

by Anonymousreply 61December 4, 2019 8:23 AM

R60

One of the bonuses of a Warren presidency is an inevitable feature film about her, where she will be played by Annette Bening and that role will finally get Bening her long, fucking overdue Oscar.

by Anonymousreply 62December 4, 2019 11:49 AM

Her manner bugs me. She's always "pleading," I don't see that air of confidence that people look for. This is a style issue, but it counts big time especially against Trump.

by Anonymousreply 63December 4, 2019 1:18 PM

she didn't. She is a FRONT RUNNER. MATH honey, is your friend.

by Anonymousreply 64December 4, 2019 6:18 PM

She was, R64, not now.

by Anonymousreply 65December 4, 2019 10:54 PM

She's second or third in every recent national poll, r65, so yeah, still a front runner.

by Anonymousreply 66December 4, 2019 11:24 PM

Agree with R57.

I support and respect Vermont Senator Sanders and Massachusetts Senator Warren and Mayor Pete.

I don't agree that Elizabeth Warren collapsed. That sounds like propaganda planted by the president's campaign (or the president's supervisor Vladimir) to play with our heads.

by Anonymousreply 67December 5, 2019 12:38 AM

R62 I live. I fought with myself to agree with you but this would be absolutely PUURRRFECT for Nettie Bening.

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by Anonymousreply 68December 5, 2019 2:15 AM

That's hysterical to hint that the Russians are funding congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard and President Donald Trump and Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders and Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren. Are they also funding Cory Booker and Julian Castro and Andrew Yang and Marianne Williamson?

by Anonymousreply 69December 5, 2019 2:36 AM

We're pretending this election is going to matter.

It looks like Moscow Mitch and the rest of Putin's crew are doing everything possible to ensure Russia can steal this election for them as they did in 2016.

I'm not giving up, but I have little faith there will be an sense of integrity or honest vote counting in November next year.

by Anonymousreply 70December 5, 2019 2:54 AM

Warren should drop out to help unify the party.

by Anonymousreply 71December 5, 2019 3:01 AM

But she's one of the most experienced and intelligent candidates. Maybe there are others who should drop out first.

by Anonymousreply 72December 5, 2019 3:04 AM

But if she's collapsing, she has to go.

by Anonymousreply 73December 5, 2019 3:06 AM

Pete will be the nominee — you read it here.

No, I’m not a huge fan of his. In the beginning I was quite impressed, now the shine has worn off for me. I think the political winds are blowing his way. Many, many citizens want a repeat of what happened when BO ran — everyone predicted it was impossible, but the will of the People was so strong and so right that “good won over evil.” The evil back then was the Bush regime. Americans also wanted and needed to prove to themselves that they reject racism, that they abhor what was done and is still being done to AA’s — BO was literally the personification, the actual embodiment of this hope that we could redefine America and what we stand for.

Now Americans again want to see good triumph over evil, they want Trump OUT. Many Americans do not give two shits that Pete is gay, they care about his message. On a policy level, Pete is just a very young Biden, and Americans always vote youth over old, yes, we are disgustingly ageist. Pete’s message is safe, moderate, familiar, Biden-esque. Pete’s message is the same as Joe’s, but more eloquent and refined, while maintaining folksy provincialism — like Joe. Black support will bloom if/when he starts winning. The only issue Pete has is his robotic delivery, *but* I would not be surprised if he’s been coached to save that type of energy for the general election. It’s a risky-strategy, but will work.

Having said that, sure Liz has lied. But as I’m keeping score on lies, hers don’t come anywhere near the beast. She would be an excellent President, she’s done an incredible amount of good for the People, an outstanding life in public service, and I am proud of her. No candidate is perfect, if you look for perfection you’ll always be disappointed, they’re all flawed, broken human beings just like you. They fuck up too, just like you. Sometimes a politician has to recalibrate their message because they want to fucking win. And just like you, they prefer to be judged by the totality of their career, not a single bad decision.

No matter who is on the ticket, the Dem nominee has my vote.....and it will be Pete, for better or for worse.

by Anonymousreply 74December 5, 2019 3:57 AM

I agree that Pete has qualities that have pushed him into the “serious possibility” category, though I don’t think Warren and Biden are out of it. Bernie is a problem, because his crowd, as usual, are defiantly saying they won’t vote for any nominee but Bernie.

Those top four are all white. Veep needs to be a POC. And if the nominee is Biden, Buttigieg, or Sanders, the nominee needs to be a woman.

by Anonymousreply 75December 5, 2019 6:15 AM

The ticket will be Biden/Whitmer. Michigan will lead the way!

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by Anonymousreply 76December 5, 2019 7:19 AM

Pete will win Iowa, and that’ll be it for him. He is not going to be the nominee or even come close.

by Anonymousreply 77December 5, 2019 7:32 AM

R77 is right. "Many Americans do not give two shits that Pete is gay," sure, but we need the votes of all the others who won't vote for him.

by Anonymousreply 78December 5, 2019 1:15 PM

What about the votes of all those who won't vote for Sanders, or won't vote for Warren? The anti-socialism crowd? That's a lot of people. At this point, only ancient Joe Biden doesn't have a sizable contingent saying they won't vote for him.

by Anonymousreply 79December 5, 2019 9:37 PM

[quote]The ticket will be Biden/Whitmer

Perhaps, r76. But if it IS Biden, he'd probably do well to pick Kamala Harris, or another female who's a POC.

by Anonymousreply 80December 5, 2019 9:39 PM

"only ancient Joe Biden doesn't have a sizable contingent saying they won't vote for him. "

R79, except for everyone who watches those creepy videos of him putting his hands all over young girls who clearly don't want him anywhere near them.

And all the women who think he threw Anita Hill under the bus.

And everyone who decides he doesn't have the temperament to be president after the exchange in Iowa today.

And everyone who believes there must be something dodgy about Hunter Biden's cushy gig in Ukraine.

Democrats cannot be stupid enough to make Biden our nominee. He's too old, and he has too much baggage, and he's unhinged.

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by Anonymousreply 81December 5, 2019 10:57 PM

I hope she stays in, just to keep Bernie from going ahead.

by Anonymousreply 82December 5, 2019 11:00 PM

"How did Warren collapse?"

Very gracefully.

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by Anonymousreply 83December 5, 2019 11:21 PM

With feeling.

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by Anonymousreply 84December 5, 2019 11:24 PM

Vladimir, did you purposely start this thread with a question so a rumour could be initiated and create a doubt about Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren's strength and ability to lead our country?

Vladimir, did you start the other threads using questions to cause doubt about Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders, Mayor Pete Buttigieg, Vice President Joe Biden and Minnesota Senator Amy Klobuchar without actually stating any facts?

Nevertheless Vlad, I am still supporting all of those candidates listed here because I think they would each make better more reasonable and representative presidents than who you stuck us with in 2016.

by Anonymousreply 85December 5, 2019 11:49 PM

Warren’s campaign hasn’t collapsed. She hit a plateau and dipped partly because the establishment and its mainstream media tentacles have realized she’s not taking down Bernie, not by chance or choice and so they can’t bring Bernie down no matter what - apparently not even a heart attack can - and they will not risk two progressives leading the primaries so they’ve started sabotaging and undermining her by doing their usual shit of over emphasizing trivial flaws and avoiding substantial discourse and the real issues facing us - climate change, threats to our government by oligarchs and billionaires from within and outside of our country, severe income inequality and a bankrupt and immoral financial and healthcare system.

by Anonymousreply 86December 6, 2019 4:38 AM

[quote]Democrats cannot be stupid enough to make Biden our nominee. He's too old

Well, there you have it. It's not just Pete, all FOUR of the current front runners have sizable numbers of people who "won't" vote for them. So it doesn't matter, because someone's got to be the nominee.

If the nominee isn't Bernie, don't expect any of his supporters to support the actual nominee. They are all pretty much assholes, as they have proved time and time again. However, I would expect that in the other three cases, those whose candidate doesn't make it to nominee status will eventually vote for the winner, no matter what they say now. And especially if the winner is smart enough to include the other top two or three in important places in their cabinet. (Except for Biden. He's not needed in a cabinet position, and most likely wouldn't take it).

by Anonymousreply 87December 6, 2019 7:50 AM

Sure r86, everyone that has soured on Warren is controlled by the media and has been brainwashed by their focus on "trivial flaws" such as lying, lack of authenticity, arrogance, unrealistic perspective, pandering, deflection, etc. No one could percieve any of this for themselves.

by Anonymousreply 88December 6, 2019 10:42 AM

R88 Wow, I see an intelligent fighter with a lot of pluck, personality, and spirit.

by Anonymousreply 89December 6, 2019 10:48 AM

R68 Hi LFF, I'm glad we agree! I hope you're well. Xo

by Anonymousreply 90December 6, 2019 10:50 AM

R88 Hun, listen to Cinesnatch before YOU get snatched.

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by Anonymousreply 91December 6, 2019 12:27 PM

It's between Biden and Bernie now.

by Anonymousreply 92December 6, 2019 12:27 PM

R92 Lawrence intimidated as much last night in his beat down of Buttigieg.

by Anonymousreply 93December 6, 2019 12:31 PM

r93 Lawrence wishes but he's another biased journalist leaving in twitter world

by Anonymousreply 94December 6, 2019 1:32 PM

I can perceive Warren’s frailties as a candidate myself because I live in a swing state among mainstream Americans. She has no appeal in Middle America and is Hillary 2.0 Except less charismatic and folksy. She is another Massachusetts politician that can’t win nationally.

by Anonymousreply 95December 6, 2019 1:53 PM

Huffington Post is a primary purveyor of anti-candidate not named Warren articles. They are so blatant in their support of her.

by Anonymousreply 96December 6, 2019 2:03 PM

No one likes a schoolmarm. It defeated Hills too and E Warren has this quality x3.

by Anonymousreply 97December 6, 2019 2:47 PM

No one likes professors

by Anonymousreply 98December 6, 2019 2:49 PM

R95, R97, yes. Out in America, she's considered worse than Hillary.

Of course I'll vote for her if she's the nominee, and I don't dislike her. I just know how unliked she is among even a lot of Democrats.

Sure it's sexist. But we aren't going to change that in the next 11 months.

by Anonymousreply 99December 6, 2019 4:05 PM

It’s sexist, but it’s not just about sex. A man with her personality wouldn’t be likable either

by Anonymousreply 100December 6, 2019 4:09 PM

I find her much more likable than Biden.

by Anonymousreply 101December 6, 2019 4:10 PM

The problem with Warren and Bernie is the progressive lane is very narrow and has plateaued in the low 30s. For a time, Warren and Bernie were trading supporters, and since her healthcare announcement the horse trading has stopped, and people are settling on Bernie.

by Anonymousreply 102December 6, 2019 4:17 PM

She's built her campaign on calling everyone else a liar and cheat and a a waffler then it turns out she's done a decent amount of all three herself, from Pocahontasgate to the MFA thing.

While candidates should not be judged on their Twitter accounts, hers is just so godawful and offputting-- a series of Successories™ posters and #GotAPlanForThat promises. All the other candidates have much much better messaging on that platform, even Biden whose Twitter is actually really well done.

But on a larger scale, it's the difficulty of believing that she's got a plan for everything under the sun.

The pushback I hear, and I include myself in this, is that if this were all so easy, someone would have solved it years ago.

And that as Obama learned, having a plan and getting a hostile Congress to approve that plan are two very different things.

by Anonymousreply 103December 6, 2019 4:24 PM

[quote] She's built her campaign on calling everyone else a liar and cheat and a a waffler

Examples of when/how she has done this to any other candidate?

by Anonymousreply 104December 6, 2019 5:59 PM

[quote] The problem with Warren and Bernie is the progressive lane is very narrow and has plateaued in the low 30s. For a time, Warren and Bernie were trading supporters, and since her healthcare announcement the horse trading has stopped, and people are settling on Bernie.

Which is unfortunate, since Warren's plan to getting to MFA is far more realistic than Bernie's.

by Anonymousreply 105December 6, 2019 6:00 PM

We don’t have successful progressive candidates because real progressives are a distinct minority of voters. And don’t cite polls showing most Americans support progressive issues. Well, experience tells us that Americans may support Progressive issues in theory, but when big progressive proposals are on the cusp of becoming law, voters get cold feet and start thinking Democrats are too liberal or socialists. Voters tend to listen to the Republican scare tactics

by Anonymousreply 106December 6, 2019 6:12 PM

Correct, R103.

by Anonymousreply 107December 6, 2019 6:25 PM

There are some legit criticisms of Warren here. But there are certainly more uninformed takes. What's the opposite of frau? Wet noodle? Whatever it is, it runneth over in this thread.

"She has no appeal in Middle America and is Hillary 2.0 Except less charismatic and folksy." I mean is this considered a criticism based in reality? Warren is from middle America. She talks about it all the time. Her tone has been "folksy" this whole year. And, yes, she is more "charismatic" than Hillary (learn to spell). Biden is Hillary 2.0.

A lot of dumbasses in this thread. jfc

R91 : love :

by Anonymousreply 108December 6, 2019 7:45 PM

R108 STOP being bitchy, daddy. Be cool, calm and intelligent, which you always are.

Leave the dirty work to me...

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by Anonymousreply 109December 6, 2019 7:53 PM

Do most voters and media view Warren as “from Middle America?”

by Anonymousreply 110December 6, 2019 7:53 PM

there are polls that lead the question, which are more about messaging. Some are saying bernie sanders is not experience governmental official. He is actually a well respected US Senator. With all the attacks against him, Bernie is still the front runner. It really is unbelievable. The American people like him. Let him be the candidate. He is liked to by some republicans and swing voters, including trump voters.

by Anonymousreply 111December 7, 2019 2:36 AM

Warren is not more charismatic than Hilary. Hilary was unfortunately mischaracterized and wasn't able to convey her humanity and humour to the masses. She just admitted in her fascinating Howard Stern interview that this was partially her fault as she underestimated the importance of the media. She actually has a great sense of humor. Warren on the other hand is cold and humorless.

by Anonymousreply 112December 8, 2019 1:43 AM

[quote]Warren on the other hand is cold and humorless.

Warren is folksy.

by Anonymousreply 113December 8, 2019 1:49 AM

[quote] Warren is not more charismatic than Hilary. Hilary was unfortunately mischaracterized and wasn't able to convey her humanity and humour to the masses. She just admitted in her fascinating Howard Stern interview that this was partially her fault as she underestimated the importance of the media. She actually has a great sense of humor. Warren on the other hand is cold and humorless.

I CANNOT LET EVEN THE MILDEST CRITICISM OF OUR GREAT QUEEN GO UNCHALLENGED. SHE IS PERFECT IN EVERY WAY AND NO OTHER CANDIDATE, NOT EVEN LIZ WARREN WILL NEVER BE HER OR BE ANYTHING CLOSE TO HER.

SHE IS THE SUPREME DEITY IN HUMAN FORM AND WE LET HER DOWN

by Anonymousreply 114December 8, 2019 1:56 AM

“How did Warren collapse?”

Like a cheap teepee.

by Anonymousreply 115December 8, 2019 2:11 AM

Warren is the opposite of folksy

by Anonymousreply 116December 8, 2019 2:31 AM

[quote]Warren is the opposite of folksy

Points for her.

by Anonymousreply 117December 8, 2019 4:09 AM

Not

by Anonymousreply 118December 8, 2019 4:15 AM

She collapsed not once, but twice. She was favored well until the DNA test incident and now her secodn fall is due to policy flip flopping, A shame as she was one of my top 3

by Anonymousreply 119December 8, 2019 6:16 AM

So weird that r114 would extrapolate the nonsense it wrote from what I said. That isn't at all how I feel or what I expressed , yet it thinks that randomly implying that I'm some sort of cartoon version of a Hilary worshiper has any sort of merit other than within it's own delusion.

by Anonymousreply 120December 8, 2019 11:38 AM

She fucked up Medicare for All. She’s still in the race; let’s see what happens when Biden forgets who he is on stage or starts reminiscing about how his Father invented the frock coat.

by Anonymousreply 121December 8, 2019 12:25 PM

r121 c'mon man!

by Anonymousreply 122December 8, 2019 12:56 PM

She may have collapsed, but at least she hasn’t passed out, fainted, seized, and hit her head like Hillary.

by Anonymousreply 123December 8, 2019 12:58 PM

R87 , you are incorrect.

I am a Bernie supporter. He's my first choice, but I also support and donate to Senator Warren as my second choice and Mayor Pete as my third choice. I'd support Vice President Biden and Senator Booker or that Amy senator, but Bernie is my first choice. It's too risky to be so hardline and not support someone who isn't our preferred candidate.

Ultimately, I'll vote for whoever is on the ballot against Donald Trump. I'd even consider supporting William Weld to seek the GOP nomination.

by Anonymousreply 124December 8, 2019 11:58 PM

Oh and a note of recognition and respect for R108, R120 and R123. I agree with your comments and stand with you. You're intelligent reasonable guys.

by Anonymousreply 125December 9, 2019 12:01 AM

Democratic primaries are the worst. It really makes you wonder what keeps this party together. It's clear that the different groups don't like each other. Very different from republicans who just vote for the person with the R after his/her name. The way the left is attacking Biden and Pete and even black people is just so sad.

by Anonymousreply 126December 9, 2019 12:16 AM

Thank you, R124. In my opinion, your attitude is the only reasonable one any of us can have, regardless who our favorites are.

Bernie was my first choice in 2016, but I voted for Hillary in the general, of course.

This time around, I agree with you about William Weld and I would even go so far as to say I would vote for Bloomberg if he were the nominee, god forbid.

I just see so many Bernie supporters who appear to want Trump to win if Bernie isn't the nominee, just to spite everyone who has a different first choice. I hope I'm wrong and more of them actually agree with you.

by Anonymousreply 127December 9, 2019 6:10 PM

^12% of Bernie primary voters in 2016 turned around and voted for Orange in the general

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by Anonymousreply 128December 10, 2019 12:23 AM

My brother liked Bernie and vote for Trump. And he's very much still drinking the Kool-Aid. He voted for Obama in 2008, but I think he went for Romney in 2012 (not sure). He lives in a blue state, though.

These people wanted major change. Even if they made no sense.

No idea who that 12% would vote for now My guess would be the incumbent, but I dunno.

by Anonymousreply 129December 10, 2019 7:51 AM

Hello R127, I am R124 and thanks for your kind words.

I do support Bernie, however, only a few of my friends, neighbors, family and colleagues do. Those of us who do, plan to support the Democratic nominee whoever that is. Too much is at stake. It's too cavalier to do anything else. I voted for Hillary ultimately in 2016, but I did prefer Bernie. At this point it's about keeping the USA an American country rather than a Russian state.

I'm surprised some of these candidates haven't thought about working together to build a consensus behind a strong, mutually agreeable Democratic ticket.

by Anonymousreply 130December 10, 2019 11:27 AM

It was not just, nor even mainly, Medicare that was Warren's problem on the Colbert appearance.

First up, he quoted remarks she had made at a recent speech which were obviously a big snipe at Biden. We know the candidates are going to go after each other, so fine. But when Colbert asked her was she talking about anyone in particular, she flat-out denied it. It was a lie as stupid as any of Trump's in its transparency. She should have known someone was going to ask her that question, and she should have had a witty answer ready to deflect it.

Second, she was going on about being a candidate of The Future (I forget whether it was in reference to Biden or Trump being "the past" she wasn't going to dwell on), talking at quite some length about the characteristics she shows as such a candidate. Colbert interjected and said actually a lot of the qualities she was referring to were those much admired in the past, eg the era of the Kennedys and MLK. She immediately, without appearing to get that he was contradicting her, leapt onto what great qualities those were and how we shouldn't want to forget our past.

I'm not American and I don't know any thing about her record, but that one appearance made her look both dodgy and dumb. And I don't think Colbert was especially hard on her. He's not exactly Rachel Maddow as an interviewer. I really got the impression he was disappointed at how badly the interview turned out. I think he thought she was better than that going in.

by Anonymousreply 131December 10, 2019 11:56 AM

Eh, the Russell Crowe docuseries beat them to it.

by Anonymousreply 132December 10, 2019 6:24 PM

R124 Amen! Solidarity!

LizBern all the muthafuckin way!

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by Anonymousreply 133December 11, 2019 2:54 AM

R131 Interesting. But I do wonder if Democrats are obsessed with finding the 'perfect' candidate and it's going to be their downfall. A Dem answers a question poorly and everyone turns on them, whereas Trump does completely insane stuff and the Republicans stick with him. Democrats are like "well I really liked them until they *insert random action from 20 years ago* so now they are cancelled!

by Anonymousreply 134December 11, 2019 10:22 AM

Great point. Democrats May have overcorrected after 2016 and are afraid every flaw in their candidate is a fatal flaw. At the same time, each candidate should be thoroughly vetted, and electability should be the chief concern.

by Anonymousreply 135December 11, 2019 11:29 AM

Oh, don't get me wrong, R134. I believe every sane person in America has a duty to vote for whichever Democrat gets the nomination, however much of a ratbag they might be and by however much chicanery they got there. The alternative is too scary.

by Anonymousreply 136December 11, 2019 11:47 PM

Boris won in UK. Doesn't look good.

by Anonymousreply 137December 13, 2019 12:09 AM

She didn't take a tumble; she took a dive.

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by Anonymousreply 138December 13, 2019 1:00 AM

She's bossy, she's screechy, and her ideas would send the U.S. economy into a tailspin.

How she got as far as she has only Dems can explain.

s

by Anonymousreply 139December 13, 2019 3:17 AM

She's a woman; she's from the East. That's all you need to know, R 139.

by Anonymousreply 140December 13, 2019 10:40 AM
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