The Crown, Series Three--Part 2

I want to see this moment where Audrey Hepburn is presented a BAFTA more than anything. Princess Anne knows a faux-sweet brown-noser when she sees one.

I already admitted I missed the whole Aberfam episode, because I sort of shut down. But several people told me (correctly, I believe) to make myself watch it all the way through before I criticize, so I will. I honestly don't get upset when DL puts me in my place, when I need it.

Episode 1 was a mistake. It's as if the Queen is upset that she was Claire Foy and then woke of the following morning as Olivia Colman. Also, Olivia Colman and the actor who plays the Quenn Mother are miscast.

Agree with a poster on the previous thread who said that Olivia Coleman would have been better cast as the Queen Mum in Season 1.

For me the most interesting episodes were the ones where the Queen was a supporting character to others—Margaret, Philip, Charles, Mountbatten. I don’t know if that’s a reflection on Olivia Colman, whom I love, or on the Queen herself.

I adore Tobias Menzies, and while he has nailed Philip's voice and some of his small mannerisms, he doesn't carry himself with the swagger that Philip does. (Based on the two episodes I've watched so far.)

Just as Claire Foy perfected HM's walk, and I don't see that from Olivia Coleman.

Olivia Colman as the Queen is utterly joyless. Anne and Princess Alice and Charles are wonderful. Casting Helena Bonham-Carter was a mistake. She's a movie star, and no one else is.

I don't think Hepburn was brown nosing... she was probably referring the Anne's work with Save the Children, where I think Hepburn was involved or with which Hepburn would have found common ground based on her UN refugee work.

When is series 4?

Probably next winter. They're filming now.

I am ambivalent to the actors playing the major roles. No one and everyone would be perfect for them, so I will just enjoy whom they hired. The clothes, on the other hand, could not be more wonderful, especially the prints on the women's outfits. I wondered if they used archival fabric, or had mills reproduce some of those patterns. They are all glorious.

I love the character of Princess Anne, although it is hard to tell if IRL she is a bitch or just down to earth and clever. Does she post on here?

Is Catherine Zeta-Jones portraying me?

Is there something wrong with this thread? I've ear-marked it a number of times, but it never shows up in my watched thread column.

I agree with R5. The only interesting characters are Harold Wilson and the women in his office. My favourite scene so far is the one where Downing Street and the Palace are discussing Charles' investiture ceremony. The sarcastic expressions on the female Cabinet/ office advisors... CLASSIC!!!

We gobsmacked them at Thanksgiving dinner

There was a young lady from Dallas Who used a dynamite stick as a phallus They found her vagina in North Carolina And her arse hole in Buckingham Palace

Her name is STILL Olivia COLMAN you whores!

Fun fact... in series 1 &2 and 3 the character of Martin Charteris is played by actors who have played characters who have both been up inside Lady Edith Crawley.

Well, R17, we like to refer to her as Olivia COLEMAN because her eyes are like COLEMAN lanterns or a pop up COLEMAN camper! Her body is like a COLEMAN cooler.

[quote] her eyes are like COLEMAN lanterns

you type eldergay

I just watched episode 2 and I have to say that that is the best acting I've ever seen from Helena Bonham-Carter. She actually had an inner life going on. I don't know how the director got her there, but she needs to kneel down and kiss his feet because she was firing on all cylinders in this episode. This episode will be Helena's Emmy.

r12, Princess Anne is a bitch, down to earth and sensible, but not particularly clever.

The Crown is painting her, Charles and Margaret very, very, very sympathetically.

[quote] The only interesting characters are Harold Wilson and the women in his office.

If you don't find Erin Doherty's Princess Anne interesting, I'm afraid there's no hope for you.

Not liking HBC in this, at all.

"Let me let you in on a secret. No one wants to hear it."

DAMN, BITCH!

It’s been a pretty slow season but the last three episodes were great.

I feel so much more sympathy for Charles and Camila now. The guy playing Charles is fantastic—he looks just like Charles and has his mannerisms down perfectly.

The end of episode 3 (the Wales episode) was brilliant with all the shadows of the children.

Episode 4 (Philip's mother) is a drag. Dull writing.

Tobias Menzies is sex on a stick! He was hot on GOT but he’s even hotter on the crown.

I didn't mind Ep 4 but they spent too much time with Philip's mother without really bringing others in until more than halfway through. Same complaint with the Mountbatten ep.

[quote]Tobias Menzies is sex on a stick! He was hot on GOT but he’s even hotter on the crown.

He's good enough to make everyone forget that he was second choice to play the role!

R27 the Aberfan episode is the best of the series. Like prince Phillip said, no one watching that could possibly have a dry eye. I admit I’m an ignorant American who knew nothing about the tragedy before watching. It’s unimaginable. Now my heart will be with wales every 21st of October

I want Tobias to sit on my face.

[quote]He's good enough to make everyone forget that he was second choice to play the role!

Who was that? I remember thinking visually this guy was further off the mark but now I can't imagine anybody else.

[quote]Now my heart will be with wales every 21st of October

MARY!

If your heart is going to be with every mass tragedy that moves you, it's going to be a rather grim calendar.

Although I suppose it's good news for Hallmark.

Totally didn’t realize Tobias was in GOT

I find the guy playing Prince Charles so sexy

R28 I love Tobias, but any actor becomes sexy by playing Prince Philip, because he was sex on a stick first! Even the cro-magnonesque Matt Smith.

R33 The original choice was Paul Bettany.

Tobias Menzies is so damn sexy something about him just makes you fancy him not just as philip. But he was in a series called the honorable woman and damn was he hot ! Its about the way he moves and talks and carries himself and you can see that in his interviews.

Love Paul he would've been good but I have to say Tobias is a better actor.

Paul Bettany may have been an easier transition physically as he is much taller, but Tobias.....he's very good, and somehow I just bought him as Philip instantly.

The Prince Charles, Josh O'Connor, plays gay in the excellent film God's Own Country.

R41 yes, we all know. His huge cock has been a discussion point here many times.

Have to say he has done an excellent job as Charles. Very different from his role as Larry Durrell.

Charles, Anne, and Harold Wilson are my favorite characters this season. I was meh on Menzies and still don't like cow-eyed Colman as the Queen. And don't get me started on how ill-suited Bonham Carter was for the role of Princess Margaret.

[quote]I feel so much more sympathy for Charles and Camila now.

This season really is a love letter to Charles & Camilla. It sucks that Diana got thrown into the middle of this, but that’s exactly what happened. I hope the RF has finally learned its lesson.

I agree that HBC is miscast as Margaret, but I love Colman as the Queen. And I wasn’t sure I would.

The show has taken great effort as showing The Queen as always being alone. They have her turning up to engagements on her own but the truth is she never goes anywhere on her own - there's always a team of people hovering around her including her ladies in waiting. It's really distracting once you notice it.

All of you Menzies fans, I beseech you to watch The Terror if you haven't already. Utterly brilliant show and he is brilliant in it (and looks hot in Victorian Naval wear.)

I want to see the lines in Tobias' cheeks flex as he's fucking me.

[quote] the truth is she never goes anywhere on her own - there's always a team of people hovering around her including her ladies in waiting.

She refers to them as her "pussy posse."

Queen of the Commonwealth, even down to the Aussie, No doubt she was chief - but too nice to call bossy Though she sat on the Throne She went nowhere alone - accompanied inevitably by one's pussy posse.

Where is the royle fo-mattah?

Tobias is really good and sexy. He is just too private and unproblematic that is why he is less known specially in USA.

J'adore the Charles character. Hope he gets the happy ending he so richly deserves.

The real prince Charles was very handsome when young

I'm tired of this series showing extended scenes in foreign languages. Greek, French, Welsh. Keep it in English please!

Build that wall!

The episodes are getting more and more boring. I just finished the moon landing episode. What a slog that was. Philip with his midlife crisis/spilling his guts to strangers motif was boring as hell.. Did nothing of significance happen to the BRF in the 1960s that would make interesting drama?

I agree the moon episode is incredibly boring, especially since Philip seemed to have the same sort of crisis last season when he took the round-the-world cruise on Britannia.

I think the problem is that for some reason Peter Morgan has it in his mind that he has to give two big episodes per season to Philip and Margaret because he sees them (correctly) as the two biggest players in Elizabeth's life. So Philip got "Bubbikins" and "Moondust" this season, and Maragret got "Margaretology" and "Cri de Coeur." but both "Margaretology" and "Moondfust' covered ground with the characters we had already seen before.

I think pretty much everyone agrees it's took bad that he didn't devote an episode to Anne, since Erin Doherty's Anne was the breakout surprise of the season, and he should have sacrificed "Moondust" (or "Coup") for an episode about Anne's wedding and the attempt to kidnap her. But I think a problem has been that weddings and funerals, which are the most important things to happen to the royakl family, are incredibly expensive to film (since all of the UK participates in these events with them), and we had one gigantic funeral this season already (Churchill's), and there was a gigantic wedding last season (Margaret's) and there will be at least one gigantic wedding next season (Charles's, and maybe Andrew's).

I hope he gives up giving two episodes per season to Philip and Margaret in the future since not a lot happens to them. HBC has said they're going to cover Margaret's lung removal next season, so that will be a big part of an episode, and we can expect Philip will play a big part in the episode where Dickie Mountbatten is assassinated (supposedly he snapped at a mourning Charles at the dinner table a few weeks after the murder to "stop sniveling"), and maybe also if they also cover Edward's decision to exit the Royal Marines (which apparently he had a huge part in, although it's been disagreed whether he was Edward's biggest detractor in coming to this decision or his biggest supporter).

[quote] I'm tired of this series showing extended scenes in foreign languages. Greek, French, Welsh. Keep it in English please!

The BRF speak multiple languages among them. The Queen is fluent in French, and the Mountbattens are German and ruled Greece.

Isnt the only thing to left cover about Margaret for the rest of the series that she progressively gets more ill.

Regarding the comment that Colman's performance is joyless, I find this season largely about what a joyless, corseted existence it is being Queen.

Her cruel takedown of Charles had a bitter truth to it regarding the expected role of the RF in British life. And the scene underscored her resentment of Charles (apparent in the previous season) as the presumptive heir. Thing is, I would think Charles' speech was a big positive politically. But he had to be brought to heel.

I also agree that Charles, Anne, and especially Margaret are portrayed VERY sympathetically, more so than any of them really deserve.

Exactly R58. Margaretology was very well done, and excellent acting from HBC, but didn't tell us anything we didn't already know. The moon landing episode I never need to see again.

HBC always looks like Bellatrix Lestrange.

R58, if what you're saying is that both Margaret's and Philip's characters had already been thoroughly explored even before this season, and at most one additional episode was needed to show them aging into middle age, I agree.

It's not that Margaret and Philip aren't interesting. They are, very much so. But, at this point, we've seen enough character development for both them. What's interesting now is how they interact with the Queen and with others, not inward-looking character studies.

I also don't especially like "x-centric" episodes, which I feel have been even more concentrated this season. Unlike S1 and S2, S3 is like a series of character studies and freestanding vignettes. There is less of a sense of passing time and also, disappointingly, less of a sense of connection to the changing times of the world at large.

I hope this is corrected for S4, but I'll keep my expectations low.

R54

I just watched the episode of the introduction of Camilla Parker-Bowles. Her husband was quite the hottie when young. Anne was lucky to be bedding him.

I agree that Anne deserved her own episode, and it could also have been used to further develop Charles and Camilla. I'd have put "The Hanging Man" it at Episode 7 and the Anne episode in at #8, and cut "Moondust" altogether. I can see the purpose of "Cri de Coeur," but it would have worked better if we'd had a little more development of the Snowdon marriage in mid-season. As it is, they went from getting along fairly well in "Margaretology" to hating each other's guts in CdC. Personally, I'd have restructured the "Coup" episode and traded one of the Mountbatten scenes for a scene with Margaret and Tony.

R67 there are scenes where they are tense in the background. I think you see the cracks through the season and it explodes in CdC. But yeah, Moondust is entirely skippable.

The Anne episode would have had a lot to cover, because she did a lot of interesting things in the mid-70s: married in 73, almost kidnapped in 74, competed in the Olympics in 76. And given that Charles had a large role in 3 episodes, 2 of which were almost entirely devoted to him, giving Anne 1 would have been reasonable.

This season could have used 13 episodes, if they were intent on giving Phillip and Margaret 2 apiece. Seven out of 10 episodes were set in 1965-1969, and a 13-episode season would have covered the early and mid-70s in more detail. One devoted to Anne and two more devoted to some other aspects of the BRF in the 70s. Any ideas for what those could have been? What was the Queen Mum up to in the early 70s?

Now that I think about it, the Queen Mother's visit to the Shah of Iran in 1975 is one possibility. After having such a large role in the first couple of seasons, it was odd to see her reduce to a background player in Season 3, especially since she still wielded so much power within the family.

[quote]What was the Queen Mum up to in the early 70s?

Sipping gin and thanking God she no longer had a husband.

I think the scene with Wallis and David in bed with Scotty Bowers was completely unnecessary.

Here's what I would do with a 13-episode Crown Series:

1. “Olding” (1964)

2. “Margaretology” (1965)

3. “Aberfan” (1966)

4. “Bubbikins” (1967)

5. “Coup” (1968)

6. "Tywysog Cymru" (1969)

7. “Moondust” (1969)

8. “Halfpenny Green” (1971/72): This would be an episode that focused in part on Prince William of Gloucester, the oldest son of Henry, Duke of Gloucester. He was taking on more and more responsibilities for his sickly father in the early 70s. He also had a rather scandalous (for a royal) relationship with a divorced, Jewish Hungarian stewardess that the Grey Men put a stop to. He also had porphyria. He was close to the Prince of Wales, who looked up to him as almost an older brother. Charles was devastated by William's sudden death in a crash at an airshow that was witnessed by 30,000 people. An episode about him could have been an interesting bridge between ""Tywysog Cymru" and set up nicely for Charles' issues in "Dangling Man."

9. “Dangling Man” (1972)

10. “Pall Mall” (1973/74): This episode would show the end of Anne's fling with Parker-Bowles, and her meeting/marriage with Captain Mark Phillips. It would have covered her kidnapping and, in the background, developed a bit more of Charles and Camilla's relationship.

11. “Imbroglio” (1973/74)

12. “Concorde” (1975): Queen Mother’s visit to Iran. I'd also have moved the beginning of the Margaret/Roddy Llewellyn and Tony/Lucy relationships here, as they both went on for several years.

13. “Cri de Coeur” (1976/77) With the Margaret/Tony story partially moved to the previous episode, this would have left room for Anne's first pregnancy, which would have left Elizabeth and Phillip confronting their new status as grandparents.

Okay, I've thought too much about this, but it WOULD have made for a more evenly paced season.

Ah, so that IS Derek Jacobi as "Uncle David."

Once I saw that, I knew: ham WILL be served tonight!

[quote] Isnt the only thing to left cover about Margaret for the rest of the series that she progressively gets more ill.

They can do stuff with her very interesting relationship with Diana. She and Diana were very close at the beginning, and she had Diana call her "Margot," which she only let some members of the royal family call her. But then she really turned on Diana when Charles and Diana's breakup became public much more so than her sister and Philip did. She would ignore Diana around Kensington Palace and tell her son to hide from her. It was very strange. And of course she was the ONLY member of the royal family who would not bow her head to Diana's coffin when it passed by for the 1997 funeral. Diana did nothing worse than Margaret herself ever did--had affairs while married, had a messy divorce--yet she behaved hysterically about it, as if she had willfully forgotten her own instances of bringing on the exact same "shame" to the family.

"Hypocrisy is the tribute vice pays to virtue" -- La Rochefoucauld

She asked her son to hide from Diana after her split from Charles? He was a grownass man.

[quote]Diana did nothing worse than Margaret herself ever did

She did one thing far worse, in Margaret's book and everybody else's:

Yes, none of the BRF forgave Diana for the Panorama interview. Speaking publicly about her marriage was bad, but the real nail in her coffin as a working Royal was questioning whether Charles was fit to be king: That was a personal and political landmine that she lobbed without a second thought. Amazingly, she was shocked when it all blew up in her face.

Did nothing of interest happen to the BRF in the 1970s? Season 3 ripped through that decade like crazy. They only devoted 3 episodes to it. The Duke of Windsor died in 1973 (episode 8), Camilla married Andrew Parker Bowles in 1973 (episode 9) and the Queen's Silver Jubilee was 1977 (episode 10). They should have at least give a nod to their American viewers by devoting part of an episode to the American Bicentennial (1976). After all, the Queen had a very successful US visit for the Bicentennial and she made a very witty remark about something happening 200 years ago but she couldn't recall what it was.

The series did give the early 70s the short shrift. At the very least, they should have covered Princess Anne's attempted kidnapping.

As a poster above noted, it seems the show is based around the Queen's relationships with Prince Philip and Margaret. As the series progresses, I think Margaret will be replaced with more Charles centered episodes.

But I would have liked to see how Anne's kidnapping affected the Queen. Obviously the security of the royal family wasn't ever addressed because years later, a man was able to break into Buckingham Palace and go right into the Queen's bedroom while she slept.

One of the themes this season seems to be how detached the Queen became. She didn't visit the Welsh mining disaster where children died and she was off playing with racehorses while an attempted coup was happening. She also seems very detached and unaware of what was going on with Charles. However, in the last episode, they suddenly get all soppy with the Queen when she becomes very interested in what is going on with Margaret. She's good as a sister and wife, but a terrible mother?

Maybe she still saw Margaret as her closest ally. Her husband is her husband.....more duty than passion or shared humanity at this point. She seems to be portrayed as having an arm's length relationship with her children. So Margaret is the one that still knows "Lilibet."

You can tell every episode is tasked with doing big events as cheaply as possible. No crowds.

[quote] She's good as a sister and wife, but a terrible mother?

At least she was to Charles. Almost every biographer agrees on that. She was completely distracted by learning the ropes when her father died in 1952 and gave Charles and Anne short shrift. Anne has gone on record as saying her mother was fine and exactly like other upper-c lass mothers of the era, but Charles has complained and said she was distant.

Also: since the Hanover/Windsors came in in the early eighteenth century, the monarch has almost always been hostile to the heir to the throne. The only exceptions were EdWard VII to his son George V and George VI to the current queen--and (so far as we can tell) Charles to William. There's something apparently very upsetting for them about having someone much younger near you waiting for you to die so their importance can begin.

[quote] You can tell every episode is tasked with doing big events as cheaply as possible. No crowds.

Disagree. This is the most expensively produced show on television, and it shows. They had huge crowd scenes just this season alone for Churchill's funeral, the Aberfan search operation, Charles's investiture, and Lord Mountbatten's reviewing of the troops. And the season before I was astounded by the expense they put into the huge civic funeral in Germany for Philip's sister Princess Cecilie and her husband and children.

[quote]They had huge CGI crowd scenes just this season alone

Fixed that for you. I bet 50% of this show is green screened. The Aberfan disaster looked like it was done by a third grader.

I didn't mind "Moondust" but was really put off by Phillip and Elizabeth's absurd snobbery after the astronauts left. Phillip calling them "little men" and Elizabeth saying "we should pity them."

That complete erased any possible sympathy you might have for Phillip in the subsequent scene with him and the group of ministers, in spite of Menzies' excellent acting.

This season seems very unfocused, as if they are trying to find a theme to connect everything.

I really like Moondust, the acting was excellent and really humanized Phillip. However they're both portrayed in the end as cold and arrogant snobs

They [bold][italic]ARE [/italic][/bold] cold and arrogant snobs.

"Moondust" was the least interesting or necessary episode of Series 3. It seemed put in there only to give Tobias Menzies more to do. It should have been dropped in favor of a Princess Anne-centric episode set in the early 70s.

[quote] Fixed that for you.

Blocked you for me.

R90 agreed. Moondust and Coup were my least fav episodes

I think the episode about Elizabeth going on her horse racing tour was also not a good episode. I get the point of it, but it just dragged on.

Also, what about the car bombing of the Old Bailey and the Irish troubles? That should have figured into one of the 1970s episodes.

[quote] Phillip and Elizabeth's absurd snobbery after the astronauts left. Phillip calling them "little men" and Elizabeth saying "we should pity them."

I didn’t see it as snobbery, just a commentary on how when you meet someone larger than life, they usually disappointedly turn out to be so normal. They, especially Phillip, had built of the astronauts into something more than they were, just like many people do to them. And, Elizabeth’s pity line seemed mostly directed at the wives, who had married simple Air Force men, not expecting they would become worldwide heroes and celebrities.

R94, That's a very smart comment. Thanks.

[quote]And, Elizabeth’s pity line seemed mostly directed at the wives, who had married simple Air Force men, not expecting they would become worldwide heroes and celebrities.

That's how I took it, along with sympathy. When the Queen describes them as living in a goldfish bowl for the rest of their lives, she is talking about herself as much as the astronauts and their wives. And, of course, the wives' situation as she described it in the quote above is exactly what happened to her own parents and to her as girl.

Anne, Charles, Princess Alice and Wilson were all great.

The actress playing Camilla weirdly sounded like and kind of looked like, a chubby snub nosed Joanna Lumley.

Olivia Colman IS too common looking to play the Queen. She'd have made a better Queen Mum. And, she always looks like a sad eyed cow about to moo about something.

Do not get your love/lust for Menzies...he's such a dull stick.

And, Helena Bonham Carter is awful as Margaret...so is the dude playing Snowden. They're WAAAAY too old; the Snowdens were young and sexy in the 60s. HBC is like 55 trying to pass herself off as 35 and it doesn't work. Same thing with Geraldine Chaplin as Wallis...she wasn't a wrinkled old prune.

And, if they were determined to cast Charles Dance, they should have saved him for Old Philip in series 5 & 6.

All in all, the writing and directing were not up to the first two series.

It was all a bit disappointing.

Nicely summed up, R97. I agree with you on every point.

[quote] And, if they were determined to cast Charles Dance, they should have saved him for Old Philip in series 5 & 6.

That's what I thought the minute he appeared on the screen. He would have been a brilliant Old Philip.

And they better cast Patricia Routledge as the Queen Mum in series 5&6. No other actress can capture the brilliant loopy, gin-soaked aura better than Dame Routledge.

Since this is DataLounge, I want to take the opportunity to talk about Ben Daniels who plays Lord Snowden.

He shows peen (sideview) in the tv show "Flesh and Bone". Do a search on the internet for it because I've forgotten which episode it was in and it's not worth watching the entire show to see his 3 second peen flash.

His partner is Ian Gelder who is 15 years older than Daniels (so hang in there eldergays, you may be able to snag a young one yet).

R99 That's a brilliant idea! I can just see it now:

Phone rings. Queen Mum answers.

QM: "The Clarence House residence...this is the Queen Mum speaking...yes? You'd like to come to one of my intimate candle lit suppers? Are you a friend of my grandson Edward? Oh? You belong to his dramatic society? How nice!"

R101 I doubt she would play the role, but it was known that the Queen Mum was a fan of Keeping Up Appearances.

I liked Emerald Fennell, who played Camilla.

She was also on "Call The Midwife" and wrote season two of "Killing Eve".

Despite the red hair, she really evoked young Camilla for me.

I know it's the Fail and must be taken w/a grain of salt but still interesting.

And egads, Andrew Parker Bowles was so fucking FUG, at least by the time these photos were taken.

Episode 9 is kind of funny in a bitter way.

Yeah the actor who plays Andrew Parker Bowles is not hot

[quote] And egads, Andrew Parker Bowles was so fucking FUG, at least by the time these photos were taken.

Those British genes are bitches! He was decent looking when young.

R106 The *actor* playing Bowles is at least somewhat plainly not-ugly in an AWG way.

The actual APB looks like a dog's asshole.

Andrew was only ever pleasant looking, but when young he had a reputation as the best fuck in London. It wasn't his face that Anne and Camilla were attracted to.

R109 Exactly, there are lots of men, who are not good looking, but still gets ton of pussy because of their "other" attributes.

Beauty standards are also different for the British upper classes. Camilla and her siblings were never raving beauties, but when young they were known as the "Sexy Shands."

Is Routledge appearing on stage or in films any more?

Olivia Colman, Tobias Menzel, and HBC picked up nominations. Nothing for Joshua O'Connor unfortunately, hopefully he will have better luck for season 4.

Sorry, R97, beg to differ!

Olivia Coleman plays HMQ quite closer to mark: The Queen relates better to dogs and horses than people, even her own children.

Tobias Menzies is perfect as the two steps behind his wife the Queen.

HBC plays Margaret just like The Guardian critic wrote..."with magnificently casual disdain."

And as for their looks, all the actresses and actors in this series are better looking than the people they are playing. The Real Deal are a brood of inbred Germans!

"the Mountbattens are German and ruled Greece."

R59 - The Mountbattens did not rule Greece. The Glucksburgs ruled Greece and the Glucksburgs are Danish..

I was unsure at first but now I think this season is pretty good. The young, glamourous Elizabeth from 1 and 2 is gone. Now we have an unhappy middle aged women doing a job she really doesn't enjoy, living in these gloomy, cavernous rooms with her equally unhappy family.

Some lovely acting; Colman, Derek Jacobi, Geraldine Chaplin, Anne, Philip's mother, Charles.

[quote]Amazingly, she was shocked when it all blew up in her face.

I know, right?

and i liked this scene, Liz tells Charles to stick to the fucking script

I love Josh's portrayal of Charles. He is heartbreaking and oh so cute.

Yes, O'Connor is much more attractive than the real thing.

HBC is good as Margaret, but there's nothing particularly regal about her. Vanessa Kirby was much better, and more intimidating in the royal manner.

I think there were lots of instances when PM was far from regal.

R121, I'm referring to the way that HBC carries herself physically vs. Kirby. Kirby demonstrated an overall regal bearing in spite of her shrewish behavior. HBC carrries herself like a spoiled Hollywood starlet.

Just watched the last episode a few days ago and the blatant double-standard between Snowdon and Margaret is infuriating, particularly when he calls Roddy a "child", as if his own paramour wasn't equally young.

Fun fact: in Season 3, episode 1, Samuel West plays Anthony Blunt, the same character he played in "Cambridge Spies" in 2003.

Did anyone see A Question of Attribution?

Although the queen says she has four children in one of the episodes, there is never any mention of Edward and Andrew. Isnt that a bit odd? I wonder if/when their characters will be introduced. Season 5?

R124, I saw it at the National Theatre in London with Prunella Scales as QEII and the playwright Alan Bennett as Anthony Blunt. It was absolutely riveting. It was later filmed for the BBC, wasn’t it?

R99, Patricia Routledge was offered The Queen Mother in The Queen but turned it down, resulting in them casting the hideously coarse and common Sylvia Sims.

Forgot to mention Scales’ son Samuel West plays Anthony Blunt in S3. His father is the brilliant actor Timothy West, who I hope ends up in The Crown before he gets too old.

[quote]Although the queen says she has four children in one of the episodes, there is never any mention of Edward and Andrew. Isnt that a bit odd? I wonder if/when their characters will be introduced. Season 5?

Aren't they the little boys in the episode about the moon walk?

R128 Yes.

It's not like the Queen Mother--"Cookie"--was very refined herself.

She swilled down G&Ts with her dinner while parked in front of the TV, after all.

Andrew and Edward are very evident in "Moon Walk<' and they have lines.

We also see them bowing to the Queen in the last episode of the season as she walks through Buckingham Palace to the golden coronation carriage for the Silver Jubilee.

[quote] Did anyone see A Question of Attribution?

I saw it in the West End, with Prunella Scales as HMQ and Andrew Bennett as Sir Anthony Blunt.

Apparently, two of the Cambridge Spies were gay.

And glamorized on film.

They're in "Moondust."

I kept willing someone to kick li'l Andrew down a flight of stairs in "Moondust."

"Moondust" was such a pointless episode. More whiny Phillip. They should have skipped it and gone right to "Dangling Man." Then, after that, put in a Princess Anne-centric episode.

Actually, if they had gotten really good child actors "Moondust" could have been a good episode to focus on Andrew and Edward, and how it feels to grow up Royal. It could even have kept the theme of being let down by meeting your heroes. I don't know if the actual child actors are good or not, since they didn't give them much to do.

Yes, "Moondust" was too self-indulgent and really didn't have enough drive. I think they were trying to pattern it after the episode in Season 2 where the Queen meets Jackie Kennedy, but it didn't have the same power. The "internal" episodes where we get a glimpse into their thought process, just aren't interesting. "Moondust" was too internal to make a full episode.

R133 - Did you see the British mini-series "London Spy"? It was really good.

[quote]Did you see the British mini-series "London Spy"? It was really good.

I did see London Spy. I thought it was very well cast (Charlotte Rampling is always brilliant). IMO, it began really well, but somewhere got bogged down. I remember thinking about 3/4 of the way through that it seemed like it was too convoluted. However, I do recommend that people watch it. I may take a second look at it and see if I've changed my mind regarding the plotting.

When is season 4? I can't wait. What else can I watch on Netflix in the meantime?

I enjoyed Moondust...thought the last episode was a bit of a slog.

R142 probably November 2020

What a crock of absolute shit.

If I tune in next season, it will only be for the Charles and Diana story. This season's casting decisions left me completely cold on seeing anything else about Elizabeth, Phillip, Margaret, or Tony.

The first two seasons were fun, although with some sad moments. The third season was depressing, although with a few fun moments. Maybe that's an exaggerated reflection of reality, but it doesn't make for exhilarating viewing.

Also, my enthusiasm for watching the tawdry events I saw play out in the tabloids in real life portrayed on screen is limited. Not sure if I'll be back next season ... but I probably will.

Tawdry?

The Windsor’s docu-series on Netflix is a good accompaniment if you are watching Season 3.

I am experiencing a growing dislike of the show. I am a person who has read numerous biographies about the Royal Family in addition to other more general books about them, and the historical inaccuracies are starting to grate on me. It is a drama, so I am fine with dramatic licence, especially when it comes to conversations, since no one knows what has been said, but the mistakes in the timeline and on widely agreed events is glaring and takes me out of the show.

[quote] since no one knows what has been said, but the mistakes in the timeline and on widely agreed events is glaring and takes me out of the show.

I don't know British history very well, can you list some of the inaccuracies?

The whole thing about not crying at Aberfan. Having the Queen Mum and Dickie conspiring, when in real life they couldn’t stand one another. Completely screwing up the timeline of the end of the Snowden’s marriage. Making it seem like Charles made some big Welsh nationalist speech at his investiture that upset the queen and government, when they were in reality pleased with his performance. Making the new Dean of Windsor arrive at the point in real life he was preparing to leave the post. Making it appear that the Queen and Porchie has an affair without mentioning that his wife accompanied them on every trip to view studs. Not to mention the glaringly wrong depictions of the BRF’s interactions with US presidents. In fact the only interaction with an American they have gotten right is Billy Graham, though they seem to have forgotten him, even though he and the Queen maintained a lifelong friendship and spiritual conversation, which led him to being made an honorary KBE. It wasn’t just a short visit in the 1950s.

I'm peeved that they sidelined Anne during what was arguably the most interesting and dramatic part of her life. Yes, she gets divorced later on, but an episode devoted to Olympian kidnap-repelling bridal Anne would have been so fantastic. If they give her an episode in Seasons 4 or 5, it won't be nearly as interesting.

R141, I liked LONDON SPY at first (love both Wishaw and Rampling, plus major eye candy Edward Holcroft), but I felt some of the later plot developments to be sadistic and cruel in a way that wasn't credible.

R153 I am hoping they will give Anne an Anne-Centric episode in the next season, before the actress is replaced. Another, hope is that parts of that episode will be in flashback, so as to include the kidnapping, the Olympics, and being named BBC Sports Personality of the Year in 1971.

That would be the only way to at all make up for the neglect of Anne this season, R155. But knowing these showrunners, they'll ignore Anne again in Season 4 so that Phillip can get yet another episode or two where he moans about his lack of purpose in life.

How do you become a showrunner? I think I could have done a better job with this series.

I’ve only seen the third episode of the current season but it isn’t very good. The parts seem poorly written. Colman has very little dialogue. The director wants her to gaze and gaze. The Harold Wilson part doesn’t have any dynamics. The whole thing seems lifeless and hollow. Foy had the best part as a young and clueless queen. The writers had fun with that.

I haven’t watched the whole series yet. So, is it true that Phillip has spent his entire life whining about how unfair his life is and tormenting his kids? He acts like a spoiled, entitled bitch. And like he deliberately does racial slurs to embarrass her because he hates her and loves humiliating her out of revenge. That’s how he asserts his power, by putting her in her place.

Watching this show, I get the impression the Queen was dickmatized by Phillip, and every other person who came near him could smell a gold digger a mile off, except for her. After fighting everyone to marry him, soon after she realized everyone else was right. But they were already married, and it was too late, so the Queen has spent her entire adult life trying to placate a rage-filled, self-pitying boor. She’s been unwilling to dump him, which would prove everybody right and her wrong, so she’s wasted her life with a bitter loser.

Did I miss anything important?

I shouldn’t say “hates her,” I should say, “is extremely jealous and envious and wants to rob her of her rightful position to raise himself.”

I don't think that the show portrays that scenario, r159, and I've certainly never read anything that suggests that the Queen and Philip have had any serious marital discord at least since 1960.

There are lots of suggestions he cheated on her in the 1950s (which the show suggests too), and there are even a very few people (not many) who think Prince Andrew may be Porchey's son rather than Philip's, since Andrew does not look much like a Mountbatten. But the Queen and Philip seem to have been very happy for nearly 60 years now.

[quote]I’ve only seen the third episode of the current season

Then why comment? Seriously.

R161, the Queen and Phillip are now living separate lives in different houses, and the official stance on this is that Phillip can’t travel, and the Queen...?

Anyway, I saw an article that said they might never see each other again, or rarely.

I have to think, rich or not, if an elderly lady wanted to be with her ailing husband, she’d find a way.

Royal and aristocratic marriages work differently, though. In many instances, they are more like business partnerships. Charles and Camilla maintain separate residences, too. Also, you could see it as a more monied version of middle-class couples who have separate bedrooms because they both sleep better alone. When you have that much money, you don't have to see your spouse every day unless you want to. And after 70 years together, perhaps the Queen and Philip have run out of casual conversation.

They could always talk about the spawn.

R165 Charles and Camilla maintain separate country homes because they married later in life and each had a settled home. The other reason is that Charles is very particular about Highgrove. Diana never liked nor felt comfortable there and it has been reported Camilla feels similar. For one thing he likes it to be kept completely tidy and clean, and both of his wives have been the opposite, especially in the country, as is typical of aristocrats. Also, Charles isn’t fond of children running about his house, so Camilla kept her home for her grandchildren to visit.

The Queen and the Duke still spend time together at Windsor, Sandringham, and Balmoral. He just prefers to not spend anytime at Buckingham Palace, which by all accounts none of Royal Family is particularly fond of.

They should turn BP into a museum and let the family live where they want.

I’ve heard many stories of the RF going back to Victoria not liking Buckingham. What’s not to like?

I finally watched season 3 and here are my thoughts:

It takes Olivia Colman about half the season to find her footing as the Queen. Seriously, she is almost totally joyless in the early episodes and while the Queen might be reserved by nature, she's not joyless. There is an earnestness to Elizabeth and I think Foy (and Helen Mirren for that matter) were much better of carrying a balance between the Queen's serious nature and her sense of wanting to do what is right and dutiful. When I first started watching the season I thought Colman was miscast. I've ended the season on more of a "meh" she's alright.

The actress who plays the Queen Mother is TERRIBLE. Granted, the Queen Mother's role was drastically downsized this season and no opportunity to let her shine, but woof, her performance is way off. Interestingly, I never liked Victoria Hamilton in the role either, I thought she was too serious, but she was miles ahead of the current actress.

Helena is great!

Josh is wonderful as Charles

The actress who places Anne sounds just like her!

Overall, I thought the season was a decrease in quality over the first two.

Well, R168, it is all rather a bit much, and one had better enjoy a red, cream and gold color scheme, mustn’t one?

Someone upper crusty from the UK told me Philip had a longtime mistress and Elizabeth allowed him to spend time with her before she died from cancer.

R171 I don't know about his past [alleged] mistresses, but his current [alleged] mistress is Countess Penny Mountbatten (the estranged wife of Earl Mountbatten) who, at 66, is 32 years Philip's junior. She allegedly all but lives with him up at Sandringham. Indeed, they have been seen out together numerous times particularly in the last 5 to 10 years. It's believe the relationship began sometime in the early 1990s after Penny's young daughter tragically died of liver cancer at the edge of 5 and the grieving effectively ended her marriage although Penny and the Earl have never formally divorced. Penny is allegedly close to the Queen who just does what she has always done, turn her head the other way.

[quote]He just prefers to not spend anytime at Buckingham Palace, which by all accounts none of Royal Family is particularly fond of.

It must be a real nuisance to have pizza or chinese food delivered. You have to walk a mile to the front gate, you have to avoid the guy in the furry hat stomping back and forth because he sure isn't going to step out of the way for you, then you have to swing that huge gate open and I bet in the winter the metal is freezing cold. Then when you get your food, you have to do it all in reverse. I bet by the time they get back up to the tv room, the food is cold.

It must be nice that one of the biggest problems in your life is not liking a damn palace.

BOP is notoriously drafty, plus it is gigantic. The rooms were built after place was expanded to be as showy and grandiose as possible to impress visiting heads of state (which is its primary purpose).

Were I Charles post-accession, I would live with Camilla in Clarence House (which is far prettier and more human sized), but entertain state visitors and work still in BP.

*BP, not BOP

That's almost certainly what Charles will do. His mother wanted it too, but she was young and uncertain and allowed the Grey Men to hound her out of comfortable Clarence House and into drafty BP. Charles won't be so easy to push around.

While The Crown once again touched upon the Queen's friendship with Porchey this season, they completely ignored the Queen's actual best friend Patrick Plunket. Patrick was from an aristocratic family (His parents were killed in a plane crash when he was 15) and had known the Queen as a child. He became very close to both Elizabeth and Margaret and later became an equerry to George VI. Shortly after her father died, Elizabeth made him Master of the Household. Patrick was charming, handsome and gay. He was the only non-family member who was allowed to call the Queen by her nickname Lilibet, and he was her preferred dance partner at royal events. It is even been reported that during the 60s, she and Patrick would "sneak" out of the Palace together and go to the movies or have coffee at cafes around London. He also was godfather to Margaret's son. Sadly Patrick died in his early 50s from liver cancer. The Queen was devastated and attended his funeral personally. As he had no living family, Elizabeth took over his burial arrangements and he is only one of two non-royals buried in Frogmore (the other is Wallis Simpson). She also erected a memorial to Patrick at Windsor Park and to this day, she visits it frequently.

[quote]That's almost certainly what Charles will do. His mother wanted it too, but she was young and uncertain and allowed the Grey Men to hound her out of comfortable Clarence House and into drafty BP. Charles won't be so easy to push around.

Rubbish. The Kenneth Rose diaries included a reference that read "Prince Charles would love to live in Marlborough House. ‘I grit my teeth with rage whenever I go to some Commonwealth event there. But what can one do? Once the people get inside a building, it is impossible to throw them out.’

His version of a slimmed down monarchy does not apply to himself.

What are you blabbing on about, R179? It's documented, and even dramatized in The Crown, that Phillip and Elizabeth wanted to stay in newly renovated Clarence House when she suddenly became Queen, but were convinced by the Grey Men that the Monarch must live in BP. Charles, in the current day, loves Clarence House and, like the rest of the Royals, doesn't care for BP. It's quite likely that as a septuagenarian who's been waiting decades for the throne, he won't be convinced by anyone to give up his comfortable London home and move into drafty, gargantuan BP. He's known to be a man who is particular about his creature comforts. Given the current shaky state of affairs with Marlborough House, I doubt sincerely that he'll kick them out after a half-century of residence and move there himself.

*shaky state of affairs with THE COMMONWEALTH.

Aren’t they spending hundreds of millions of public money on modernizing BP? Wouldn’t do to just say “Thanks, but no thanks.”

[quote] The Kenneth Rose diaries included a reference that read "Prince Charles would love to live in Marlborough House. ‘I grit my teeth with rage whenever I go to some Commonwealth event there. But what can one do? Once the people get inside a building, it is impossible to throw them out.’

He said that in his 20s. Now he is in his 70s. I am sure his feelings have changed.

In those days, he wanted a gigantic palace so he could have a separate court from his mother's. That didn't woprk out, so he made do with Highgrove, st. James's, and now Clarnce House.

[quote] While The Crown once again touched upon the Queen's friendship with Porchey this season, they completely ignored the Queen's actual best friend Patrick Plunket.

He was in the second season. He was the friend whom Elizabetrh pressured to tell her about the nasty things Jackie Kennedy said about her and Buckingham Palace at the London dinner party.

R184 Yes, but they downplayed his role in Elizabeth's life. They portrayed him as a passing acquaintance and not as a member of the royal household.

R178 I always felt there was a movie that could be made about the Queen and her gay best friend Patrick. Seriously, people have said that besides Philip, Patrick was truly the only other man she ever loved.

Hmmm.

You experts who know what Charles thinks or feels are sad jokes.

I loved the Princess Anne characters first appearance in the show, a series of squeaks as she listens to her father. Very adept performance. Josh O’Connor was wonderful in every way, the hunched posture was spot on and the vocal mannerisms.

That irrepressible O'Connor dong, season 4.

I'm rewatching three. Still hugely a fan of Tobias Menzies. Colman has grown on me but she can no longer transcend herself and become the character... it's the brown eyes. But she's excellent.

Anne was utterly wasted given the actress. She was terrific. I still liking Hurricane Bonham Carter as Margaret. That last scene in the last episode between the sisters was played softly and genuinely. They did very well with it.

The writing for the most part sucks and the revisionist writing is way too over the top. They made odd choices and odder omissions. I wonder if the criticism has been sufficient to have them up their game for five and six? (Four being done.)

I'd like to see Charles Dance as Philip in five and six. He should be dead by about episode of series 4.

[quote]Still hugely a fan of Tobias Menzies.

I don't know why. Philip's face looks like a thin glaze of a mask that someone painted on, as opposed to an actual human face. Is Philip IRL always [italic]en maquillage[/italic]? He looks like a human cinnamon roll. I find myself turning away when the camera pays attention to him.

[quote]Yes, but they downplayed his role in Elizabeth's life.

That's a far cry from your earlier claim that they "completely ignored" him.

They did not "completely ignore" him: he was there.

They're not going to have Charles Dance playing Mountbatten in seasons 3 and 4 and then bring him back as older Philip in seasons 5 and 6. It would be distracting and nonsensical casting.

I agree that he would have made a wonderful older Philip and they should have saved him for that role, but the ship has sailed.

Dance would have been better as Philip than as Lord Mountbatten since Dickie Mountbatten was man of legendary charm, which is just not Dance's strength. He came across as too much like Tywin Lannister throughout most of his big episode this year 9although I thought he was wonderful in the final big scene with Jane Lapotaire as his crazy but magnificent sister Alice). I thought Greg Wise was perfect as the younger Lord Mountbatten is seasons 1&2.

But I agree with r194: it would be too distracting to have him change roles and play Philip for seasons 5&6. I am hoping they can get Jeremy Irons instead (if they can do something about his annoying way of speaking through his dentures).

Jeremy Irons looks like an ancient former ballet dancer. I heard him read live at St. Paul's Cathedral in December and he was prim personified. He could not carry off Philip. He's too effete.

Samuel West is not horse-faced enough to play Anthony Blunt.

The Blunt episode seemed flagrantly ripped off from Alan Bennett's take on the subject (Prunella Scales as QE2).

I also thought that about the Alan Bennett play, r197.

One thing I'm really curious about is how they will do Diana's death in season 6 without ripping off Peter Morgan's own movie "The Queen." How would you possibly do that differently? But you'd have to do it, because it was the biggest crisis for the monarchy during Elizabeth's entire reign.

I just finished season three. I really enjoyed it and can't wait for season four. The finale was so underwhelming for me though. Helena Bonham Carter is the exact same in every role she is cast in, and she is more of a distraction here than an actual character.

I can't wait for Gillian Anderson. I'm a huge X-Files fan and I love her. I was not a fan of Meryl Streep's Margaret Thatcher and cannot believe she got an Oscar for it, but I know Gillian Anderson is going to absolutely slay as Margaret Thatcher.

I'v rewatched Aberfan twice and find it dull, paint by the numbers. I think the issue is the Queen worrying about being unable to cry and the rest of the Royal family becoming shadows. I said in another thread that I was much more moved by the similar fog episode in Season 1. But everything just worked as we became invested in the PM's secretary.

The Charles Goes to Wales episode was the best in my opinion. There was a human aspect about common ground and growth. Plus the Queen sure could cut a bitch when she told of Charles in the end.

This season was a dud for me. I just realized that they used to kill it with layered scenes accompanied by wonderful music. It made S1 and S2 seem more regal and dramatic. Here is one example, but my favorite is when they show PM Eden watching clips from the Egyptian leader then later passed out from the drugs. Great way of showing a once mighty empire asleep at the wheel. S1 and S2 of the Crown could go big and small on topics, S3 was just a mash up of things without a narrative to connect it all.

P.S. more of the Queen Mother is a good thing.

The Guardian's TV critic said Olivia Colman's performance consisted of sitting in a chair and looking out the window. That is, when the camera wasn't spending endless amounts of time gazing at the back of her head.

[quote] Sadly Patrick died in his early 50s from liver cancer.

Uh huh, “liver cancer.”

The Guardian is not going to like any show about the British Royal Family, period. I don't put too much stock in their opinion.

That's the Gruaniad to yuo, please, comrade.

R200, thank you for that clip. It did make me miss Claire Foy, who was so superb in S1 and S2.

[quote]Helena Bonham Carter is the exact same in every role she is cast in,

Couldn't agree more.

Funny, I am not an HBC fan and was kind of dreading her in this... but I think she did really well. Maybe my expectations were that low.

R203 - The Guardian is a HIGHLY respected media organization. Center Left and republican yes but also respected.

I love The Daily Fail and The Dim as much as anybody for entertainment but I am beginning to think that some DL poster read nothing else.

[quote]Helena Bonham Carter is the exact same in every role she is cast in,

Uppercrusty cuntsloppus?

Yes, the Grauniad is HIGHYL respected. Nothing says considered gravitas like Polly Toynbee or Owen Jones.

The ship HASN’T sailed, R194, stop insisting that.

Dance will play Philip because he’s the only actor who can carry that role through two seasons.

r190 they did a damn good job on the Diana look. Hopefully, they bring the Jewels tiaras S1 & S2 back.

R201, I agree that the Queen spends much of series 3 taking a back seat to the big events happening around her.

To me that "Moonshot" episode was one of the most boring hours of television I've ever sat through. It seemed such a waste too, when so much was going on at the time that was more interesting, or relevant. Considering what happens to Mountbatten, some set up with The Troubles could've been good, and I was really disappointed they didn't cover Anne's attempted kidnapping. Fingers crossed they backtrack a bit for series 4 and we get to see that. The actress playing Anne was my favourite this series.

I want Claire Foy back!. I hated this season. Coleman sucks the life out of this series. Terrible.

Agreed r215. It must be said, but when men take roles their weight appears to be a part of the consideration. It doesn't seem like female actors hold themselves to the same standard. The Queen and Princess Margaret look too big for their roles. How can we get into the late 60s and not even mention the difference that came along due to the "Swinging 60s". No kidnapping is unacceptable, but I think Princess Ann was married at the time so they may save it for S4.

Apparently, two of the Cambridge Spies were gay. —Anonymous reply 133 12/11/2019

And glamorized on film.

indeed they were

WTF are you talking about R217?

R216, they can’t save it. The kidnapping occurred two years before The Crown Season 3 ends.

R216, they can’t save it. The kidnapping occurred two years before The Crown Season 3 ends.

R219 They can always include it as a flashback.

That’s doubtful, R221. How would it be used as a flashback-Anne has a horrible nightmare about it and wakes up screaming?

R222 It could be used as a flashback during an episode focusing on the Queen and Michael Fagan, or during an episode focusing on the Mountbatten assassination, focusing on the perils and security fears of being a member of the Royal Family.

Just finished Season 3 and feel weary, like, “Is that all there is?”