What if Trump is impeached and then it moves to Senate.

I hit post once, but it double posted. Glitches!

Maybe they can just ignore the subpoenas like all of Trump's buddies are.

Let’s see what shape I can give this. I was reading a piece by Byron York that has the first good read-out I’ve seen of the October 29 deposition by Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman, self-labeled no. 1 Ukraine expert at the National Security Counsel, and I want to share that in a summarized form, with my comments. There’ll be some longer quotes though. And I know there are people who may not like York, but just skip his opinions and focus on the facts then.

Overall, Vindman comes across to me as a bureaucrat among bureaucrats, who also appears to be on the edge what we think of when we mention the Deep State. And who seems to think his views and opinions trump Trump’s own. “.. his greatest worry was that if the Trump-Zelensky conversation were made public, then Ukraine might lose the bipartisan support it currently has in Congress.”

A US President is elected to determine foreign policy, but Vindman doesn’t like things that way. He wants the policy to be set by people like him. It brings to mind Nikki Haley saying that Tillerson and Kelly wanted her to disobey the President, because they felt they knew better. That slide is mighty slippery. And unconstitutional too.

And the suspicion that Vindman’s report of the call may be what set off “whistleblowing” CIA agent Eric Ciaramella is more alive after the testimony than before. But, conveniently, his name may not be spoken. For pete’s sake, Vindman Even Testified He Advised Ukrainians to Ignore Trump.

Definitely the first option, unfortunately.

We see what you're doing there, OP/Boris/"HardcoreLiberal"

Why should Biden show up if it hurts him so much personally? The conservatives, who refuse to honor their subpoenas in the House investigation, give him a way out of that personal humiliation.

Let the Senate flaunt their hypocrisy when they are outraged when a Dem pulls the same stunt as the Republicans.

You’re despicable OP. Just despicable. You’re the shit of the earth. You know why.

OP is trolling, going his part to get the informant's name further spread around so that the press will ultimately just name him/her.

F&F

There is no suspense. The Democrats can’t back down. Nor should they. The Republicans can’t vote to remove Trump because it would destroy their party. It’s tough enough to keep those yahoos in their base motivated to support tax cuts and deregulation as it is. If they turn on the Dear Leader, the base will never again be under the control of corporate interests.

Yup r8. OP is shit. He should be tossed in a cesspool—he’ll be right at home.

R5

Cut it out with the Boris bullshit.

Attacking anyone with a heterodox opinion isn’t going to help beat him in 2020. Objectively looking at what is actually being used as pretext for the impeachment should scare the fuck out of any Democrat.

What should scare the Liberals is listening to trolls who instist that all they can do is go on the defense, because the Republicans are such alpha males who go on the offense and each and every move they make must be dignified with a proper defensive response.

Fuck you r12. You’re a cretinous slime. Muriel should remove this thread. Fucking moron. Hard core liberal my ass. Did you run out of vodka?

Yeah, this is going to be the strategy - don’t bother with the House, they’re going to impeach no matter what. Say nothing. Don’t testify. Ignore subpoenas. Once it gets to the senate the republicans are going to turn the whole thing around onto the democrats & Biden. And who knows what else.

Remember - it’s not Trump who’s coming up with strategy. It’s Putin. Putin is smart, ruthless & schooled in treachery. He no doubt communicates to Trump & McConnell through cutouts. He knows how to rig a trial.

The House is doing their job. What are they supposed to do nothing, let King Trump rule the world (badly)? If it were Hillary and the Repugs were in charge of the House- would there be any doubt they'd have her on live TV?

Who cares what happens after the House impeaches him. But you better believe if he has another crime after this (rape?) they'll regret not taking him out when they could have.

" We are not on trial, so we respectfully decline the invitation to appear."

Who the fuck is Ciamerella?

I read that it only takes three Republican senators to make the vote confidential. If so, Trump will be ousted as everyone hates him and many are appalled by everything he does, and the Republicans will turn on him if freed from retribution from Deplorables.

^That’s if no Democrats defect. The Dems might want the Republicans on the record, either because it will eventually make them look bad, or because they think that transparency is important on principle.

R17

Congressional subpoenas don’t work that way. If you have knowledge of malfeasance regarding the operation of the United States government, you cannot refuse a subpoena, especially as a former governmental official.

Contempt of Congress is serious.

And yet there are quite a few Republicans ignoring them now, r21.

[quote] Contempt of Congress is serious.

Very funny

Eric is a hero for 51 percent of the public, more so after the hearings are over.

I would say die in a grease fire, OP, but that would be too good for you. I'd like to film you being drawn and quartered then post it on YouTube for your family to see.

r21 Surely you can't be serious. Republicans are refusing to honor House impeachment subpoenas. Obviously, Republicans don't consider contempt of Congress to be a big deal.

Can someone explain why they don’t just routinely issue subpoenas? It seems like they ask nicely, but only after getting the runaround do they issue a subpoena, and that’s after wasted time.

r26 Republicans use "executive privilege" as an excuse for refusing to testify before Congressional committees. They have been doing this since the Nixon administration. This is a specious argument since it nullifies Congressional oversight of the Executive Branch - oversight that is specifically authorized by the Constitution. The problem is that the House would have to go to the Supreme Court to force the Republicans to testify, and that process would take too long.

R22

Executive privilege prevents executive branch members from being compelled to testify until certain Constitutional thresholds have been crossed.

[quote]Grilling the Biden’s about exactly how Hunter...

The Biden’s what?

Imagine if he’s impeached by the House and it comes down to 50-50 tie in the Senate.

Pence either breaks tie to save Trump OR Pence breaks the tie to make himself President!!

The Vice President does not vote in presidential impeachment proceedings.

Then who breaks the tie?

I think if the Republicans had agreed to go along with everything they would have looked more legit ("Sure, yeah- let's get to the bottom of this"). But the constant hiding of this and refusing of that and blocking of whatever makes them look so guilty.

And of course Trump himself, lying and threatening and changing his mind constantly.

That is the real damage they've done to themselves: no one trusts them anymore.

R32 there is no tie, the President is removed with 2/3rds of the Senate, not 50/50.

R34, I think it’s 2/3 of those present, so a Republican can skip the vote, as a way of not crossing the Deplorables, but not crossing the country, either, sort of. that sounds like a possibility. It could save their future as a Republican lobbyist, without fully supporting Trump and betraying the country.

Did anyone find anything damning today?

The main witness seemed to be confused about what the crime was.

Unless there’s a smoking gun with fingerprints and DNA Evidence from Trump, the vulnerable democrats might see the writing on the wall and refuse to impeach.

Not even being able to get the impeachment out of the house of representatives would be humiliating.

F&F OP/“HardCoreLiberal” r36 because they’re anything but. And they purposefully released the WB name. You think we’re not on to you. You’re a Russian plant. Or a joke. Probably both.

I don’t think the main witness commented on “the crime”. He has made clear that his job is to report what he knows, not pass judgment.

If you were listening, the mIn witness already provided the smoking gun, and there’s more to come. Trump is A criminal and will be impeached by the House. The only question is whether or not he will be removed by the Senate.

After Trump is out of office and he should be prosecuted, but I worry that you only need one Deplorable in the jury to scuttle the criminal conviction.

Fuck r37

EVERYONE knows the whistleblowers name, and his partisan activism.

Pretending that he should be protected is so disingenuous.

R38

And Mueller would provide hard evidence of Russian collusion.

This impeachment farce is the reason that he will win again in 2020.

Even if the house votes to impeach, the Senate will refused to remove him from office and it will bolster his chances in November. Have you people ever heard of strategy?

Whatever happens, this will be bad for the Republicans. If Trump is not removed by the Senate, and the House does a good job of presenting just the facts and testimony that we already know, it will turn off independents and others. They’ll be repulsed and this will result in a blue tsunami in Nov, 2020. Also, Trump is such an emotional mess, he may demonstrate more and more unhinged behavior, which will hurt him.

If Trump is removed, it will turn off independents and split the Republican Party. It’s lose-lose for the Republicans.

Now that’s strategy!

R42

Impeachment is serious. Even when Clinton was impeached, it was BIG.

WJC still has sky high approval ratings.

Impeachment without removal -especially if Republicans in the Senate subpoena Joe Biden and Hunter Biden to elaborate on their interactions while the latter earned nearly $1M a year for his ability to speak Ukrainian and his intimate knowledge of fuel extraction.

Oh wait, Hunter doesn’t speak Ukrainian or Russian and doesn’t know shit about energy?

Uh ohhhh.

It will be interesting to see if the Senate does subpoena the Bidens. Of course, Trump ‘s impeachable actions have nothing to do with the Bidens. The Bidens might be Trump’s excuse for his impeachable actions, but every criminal has an excuse for their behavior, don’t they? It’s irrelevant to the purpose of their hearing, as are Obama, Hillary, her emails, and Benghazi.