Why do DLers claim Chicago is “flyover” land? It’s one of the major cities in the world

I agree, OP.

SHHHH. People are abandoning NYC in droves. You don't want those pretentious assholes to settle in your city, do you?

Chicago is part of Flyoverstan because it's not an international city like New York, Miami, LA or SF. Chicago is just full of Americans. Also, nothing of importance happens there that isn't done better elsewhere, like finance, media, etc. It's just a cow city full of cow people.

As an actual LAer, Chicago is cute but still a flyover. No one writes stories about moving to Chicago to follow their dream. You move there from the farm you grew up on to get a 60k a year job and work until you die and are buried in the heartland of america and are never remembered for the rest of time

OP, it has to do with the cold. The extreme cold. And the wind.

Chicago is uninhabitable, except for people born and raised north of Chicago.

How else would insecure New Yorkers feel good about themselves? It's all about self-esteem.

[quote] Chicago is part of Flyoverstan because it's not an international city like New York, Miami, LA or SF. Chicago is just full of Americans

Pardon me, and I mean this so kindly, YOU ARE A GODDAMNED IGNORANT MORON WHO APPARENTLY HAS NEVER SET FOOT IN CHICAGO!

I have read some cretinous statements on this site over the years but that one has to be right at the top. If you have truly that dumb you should not be allowed out alone

I mostly only go out alone. Why else would I be on DL?

This thread shows that the online homo community is chock-a-block with some of the most ignorant, untraveled, faux elitist wannabe fools on the planet.

I love Chicago, OP! The people are friendly, there's lots to do, great food, and manageable traffic. I would have moved there years ago if the weather was more tolerable.

But I can't stand the cold, so I retired to Florida.

Don't be silly, R7.

I've lived in NYC and LA. I've visited Chicago many, many times, having been born and raised in the Midwest.

Chicago is a Midwestern town. More varied than most of them, but NOT AT ALL international in the ways that NYC and LA are on a daily basis.

Tokyo, Paris, London, Chicago....the big 4.

If lesser cities aren’t disparaged then there really is no reason to pay 10k a month for a shitty 600 square foot apartment NYC apartment. New York is just as boring as the rest of the country and corporations are moving their head quarters outside of the big cities now. We will gladly accept that tired moniker for our quality of life. Not only in New York anymore.

Chicago is a beautiful city with some of the best architecture and best museums in the world.

It also has some of the dullest people in the world -- Midwesterners who think Chicago is the neatest, zippiest, all around cat's pajamas of a city they're ever seen (mostly because they've only seen Minneapolis and Des Moines).

1000 years from now NYC probably won't even exist anymore. But Chicago will still be there, big & bustling as ever out on the plains.

Well, when the banks leave NYC wholesale for Chicago's fleshy embrace then you can say I told you so. Until then, have several seats (or one fortified bench).

Chicago has a lot to offer but at the end of the day it is a metropolitan city, not a cosmopolitan one.

Again, you've obviously never been to Chicago. 21% of Chicago's residents are foreign born. It may be lower than NYC's 36%, but it certainly makes it a cosmopolitan city.

I lived in Chicago for 10 years (NYC for 20, Boston for 5, and DC for 8). Chicago architecture/lake/river are lovely. I worked for SOM and getting that job in Chicago was a coup. The Art Institute and Museum Campus are great. It has some of the best restaurants. But for all the Midwestern niceties, the city has a mean girl vibe. It's filled with people who can't make it in a major city (and people who fail in Chicago move to Denver where I was born). It's telling to me that even the Obamas are avoiding moving back there although their daughters are now out of DC.

Chicago =Alpha city, same as LA. NY= Alpha ++ City. Womp, Womp LA.

R4 - good summary. It’s fine but it’s major virtue is being a city between the coasts that offers a lot of the amenities of the coasts at a lower price. Better than Dubuque, it decidedly different than NY or LA vibe.

[quote]Why do DLers claim Chicago is “flyover” land? It’s one of the major cities in the world

"Flyover" is not merely a contemptuous geographic designation to suggest no one would choose it as a destination.

It reflects a particular mindset arising from parochial attitudes and limited exposure and experience of its people with the broader world.

Chicago is certainly not flyover land. Unfortunately, it is IN flyover land.

Sorry, OP. Chicago is not a major world city. NYC, LA and DC are. Being big is not what counts. Neither is history. It’s current power and influence.

R11 is right. It's also people from Chicago who have flyover mentality. I've worked with a few people from Chicago who harbor midwestern e.g. not very urbane outlooks. I remember one psychologist I'd worked with who had just moved from Chicago 2 years ago to SF, she told me that she was in culture shock because she didn't know about so many types of Asian food and she'd never interacted with so many people from different cultures until she came to California. She's from a Polish-American family in Chicago, and she said that while she and her White friends had Black friends (her bf is Black), that's the main extent of her non-White experience while living in Chicago because Black culture is the dominant non-White culture there. I had to educate her on all things Asian and Latino that influence our lifestyle here. These cultural influences give cities in California an international vibe that a midwest city like Chicago simply don't have. Also, Chicago doesn't have an industry that is dominant in the world today. Nothing to compare to SF Bay Area's high tech and startups, no entertainment industry such as in L.A., no financial center like NYC. No world-class, influential universities on par with Stanford, UC Berkeley, and the like.

University of Chicago and Northwestern may have a thing or two to say about that R24

R25 Not on par with Stanford and UC Berkeley, the two examples cited, not even close.

R24, you're right about Chicago not having a dominant industry but the rest of what you are saying seems odd. Polish Americans who live on the far west side of Chicago near Midway airport are obviously not going to be surrounded by that much of diversity. I don't know how "Latino" San Francisco is but Chicago has one of the largest Mexican populations in the country and large populations from Central America and Puerto Rico.

R26, University of Chicago and Northwestern have more prestige than UC Berkeley.

R21, thank you.

I’m a Flyover Eldergay who spent a decade living in Chicago.

If anyone ever wants the label “coastal elite” confirmed, DL is the place to be.

Yet the elitists show their own limitations, especially in regards to the question of an international city, as r27 points out.

Chicago has a massive immigrant population with thriving Mexican, Puerto Rican, Chinese, Indian, and Vietnamese neighborhoods.

I love Chicago and lived there for fifteen years. The problem is that it’s in the middle of fucking nowhere. Nowhere to drive for the weekend.

What r22 said. Chicago is *IN* flyoverland, but Chicago is obviously not *PART* of flyoverland.

Chicago is absolutely a global city, it's such an indisputable point that this is all that really needs to be said on the matter.

Then there's that grating, nasal Chicago EEYAKCCENT!

Another thread that exists only to prove that DL's "elitists" are every bit as stupid, provincial and biased as their Deplorable counterparts. I guess that's what happens when you spend 24/7 in a $2,500/month studio 5th floor walkup in NYC and can't afford to venture out into the real world very often.

Chicago is a world class city. Deal with it, you fucking morons.

Literally look at r19. The global importance of cities is something that is literally studied and ranked. If Chicago is "flyoverland" so is Los Angeles. They have the exact same ranking.

R27 Um, no. Any ranking based upon non-bullshit methodology not to mention general consensus shows your claim to be ignorant beyond belief. But I guess that's to be expected of anyone who claims that Chicago is superior to major cities in the West and East Coast.

The main thing Chicago has going for it, and in my opinion does make it an international city, is the breadth, quality, and beauty of its architecture. The Chicago skyline puts the New York skyline to shame. It really does.

I agree OP. Chicago has some amazing architecture.

[quote]I love Chicago, OP! The people are friendly

As someone who lives in Illinois, I can tell you that the people in Chicago are some of the biggest assholes you’ll ever meet.

Also, it is NOT a walkable city. Even in the city you have to drive because public transportation is so shitty. They don’t have a proper subway like NYC, just those shitty L trains.

They also have these things called buses r37. No other American city is as good as New York, but by American standards Chicago is very walkable with good public transit.

We prefer NYC to any city on earth. We call it home, since there are so many opportunities to flourish.

R26/34, you're an idiot. You're revealing your own stupidity. It also depends on what ranking and list you are looking at. It is considered one of the top 10 or 15 universities in the world. And even in your own list, it's only four places away from U of California. Hardly "not even close"--or did they not teach you the meaning of that phrase at your elite coastal university?

R38 Nobody wants to wait for some shitty ass slow bus outside on the sidewalk.

R24, Chicago has large populations of Mexicans, Central Americans, Puerto Ricans, Eastern Europeans (especially from the Balkans), Greeks, Assyrians, Indians, Pakistanis, etc. And that's just the top of my head. If your Polish friend didn't have any experience with the above groups, it sounds like she was stuck in her own bubble (which I will admit is a problem that I've noticed with some ethnic groups in Chicago).

R40 My you are rather dense aren't you, and you probably don't circulate in academic circles. Ask 100 renowned leaders and academics, also take into consideration the influence that tech and biotech has on the world today. Tell me the two universities in Chicago are better than top California ones.

You can try to brag all you want about the architecdture and ethnic groups blah blah blah

Chicago has a flyover mentality. The people are not cosmopolitan. They have a permanent chip on their shoulder about not being New York ("Second City").

Despite the supposed diversity, it's way more segregated than NY or LA and people don't really mi or know much about each other's culture.

Basically, Chicago is where flyover people from other states go and think "they made it now!".

It's like comparing "Big 10" schools to the Ivy League.

What R41 said, providing we can append "in Chicago in February."

[quote][R21], thank you...I’m a Flyover Eldergay who spent a decade living in Chicago...If anyone ever wants the label “coastal elite” confirmed, DL is the place to be.

[quote]"Flyover" is not merely a contemptuous geographic designation to suggest no one would choose it as a destination. It reflects a particular mindset arising from parochial attitudes..

"Elder gay who spent a decade living in Chicago"..."parochial attitudes."

QED

What's so bad about flyover cities anyway? The people aren't all garbage I find more of them are just good down to earth unpretentious people than ignorant hicks.

The idea of flyover cities is really a misnomer. As America has grown pretty much all cities now are progressive and cosmopolitan with lots of educated people.

The divide is between cities and small town America. That's the real cultural boundary in America.

Having a large number of people living in a city who were born in another country is great. Having interesting people from different cultures to talk to is fun. But, that does not do one thing toward making anyone else's life better in that city. Having steady employment in a well paying job, affordable housing, living expenses & taxes, and enough things to do in your leisure time to keep you satisfied, those are the things that make your life better, no matter where you live.

Ask 20 New Yorkers if they've ever been to the Metropolitan Museum of Art and I'll bet you less than half will say they have, or have any interest in doing sol.

The Candlelight Dinner Theatre gave us FOLLIES.....in the round!

It is a beautiful city.

Chicago is more like fly-into land. O'Hare is the nation's busiest airport.

Chicago deserves more respect than it gets. But it never built up the same glamorous cachet as New York or Los Angeles.

I can’t imagine ever “aspiring” to make it in Chicago. I’m guessing the people there are from the Illinois country side who wanted a city vibe, and who aren’t special enough for NYC or LA.

Most people aren't in the entertainment industry r54, they aren't moving to a city with dreams of seeing their names in light.

They get a degree and look at where good career opportunities are.

Special enough R54? What makes people in LA and NYC so special. There are special achievers but the average person spends their time worrying about the same things as any family in the burbs. Some of you are very delusional if you think a city of millions is really full of that many interesting inhabitants.

Correct r55. Chicago has jobs and is safe in the majority of areas) and a walkable city. The buses, L and Uber/Lyft/cabs can get you wherever you need to go, especially the extensive and timely bus system.

"Another thread that exists only to prove that DL's "elitists" are every bit as stupid, provincial and biased as their Deplorable counterparts"

This accurately describes R54, who seems to think that pulling an opinion out of his prolapsed asshole qualifies as profound thinking and analysis.

Wait wait wait... did someone just claim people in NYC and LA are all “special”? Really?? Dude, most of the people in both can barely get by. And that is the majority in both, they can’t get by at all, while you see less of that in Chicago.

Chicago is AFFORDABLE, and that is the biggest thing when it comes to cities now. People are tired of paying thousands for a tiny place in an overcrowded city. NYC is far too crowded, and people know it but won’t say it. It’s scary how crowded both places are.

Chicago attracts people from all over the Country and world. And the mentality here is no different that in any other major city, especially NYC, which has more and more Repugs moving in with more and more Dems moving out. NYC is attracting all those small minded frau types now and Republicans. That says all you need to know about it as a city in 2019.

[quote] And the mentality here is no different that in any other major city, especially NYC, which has more and more Repugs moving in with more and more Dems moving out. NYC is attracting all those small minded frau types now and Republicans.

Wrong. Chicago mentality is small town no matter how much great architecture you get.

People all like the same things and are very provincial.

R59 that’s false. NYC has small minded people.

Some of the most homophobic, racist, full on ignorant people I have ever met were in NYC. I don’t know where this lie comes from that everyone there is top notch and open minded and liberal, but it’s a lie.

It's toddlin'.

[quote]Some of the most homophobic, racist, full on ignorant people I have ever met were in NYC. I don’t know where this lie comes from that everyone there is top notch and open minded and liberal, but it’s a lie.

That still doesn't change the fact that Chicago is limited.

Barbara Thorndyke's pussy stinks!

go eat a "chi-CAHHHH-do DAHHHG" R64.

R49 shows the flyover mentality of Chicago.

Most of us think that having daily contact with people from other cultures does make our lives better. If cheap rent and leisure activities are your priorities, that is flyover mentality.

And it is why Chicago is not a destination for the ambitious.

Thanks R66.

Face it, R49 and the like are limited.

Chicago is a great fit for those of us who want a large metropolitan feel but at a more manageable level of density. I'm sure there are more magnificent places in the world with great culture, but the sheer amount of people and density in NYC, London, Paris et al is overwhelming for some of us.

It has its pluses and minuses, as do most other places, but I agree it's often underappreciated here.

[quote] Most of us think that having daily contact with people from other cultures does make our lives better. If cheap rent and leisure activities are your priorities, that is flyover mentality. And it is why Chicago is not a destination for the ambitious.

Well, SMELL HER.

Chicago was a '30s musical starring little Miss Alice Faye....

She smells fabulous!

Chicago is cool AF. I’d live there. I like cold weather.

Chicago winters are worse than NY winters, r72.

Oh good Lord! How many times can I cut and paste this?

There’s already been a thread on this OP. Would it have killed you to have done a search first before you posted this? I mean really? What’s wrong with having a little consideration for others and doing a search first? Would it really have been that hard? Would it?

R74... what gives? Are you a Virgo?

NOTHING would be worth going through that rant you just gave us. Get some help.

O'hare airport is one of the BEST. You can get a direct flight out of there to anywhere pretty much. So fuck all you bitches. A lot of people CLAIM to be from Chicago but when you press them they are not. They are from the suburbs or west of Clark street. I've had so many good loads dumped in my ass in Chicago it's not funny. Does it have it's limits as compared to LA and NYC? Of course. Is LA different from NYC ? Of course you stupid butt fuckers. Chicago and NYC both have a subway system and you dumb cunts use that to compare the two. Knock it the fuck off you dirty queers.

[quote] Barbara Thorndyke's pussy stinks!

It smells like hot, sizzling Cuban cum. Get it right.

Chicago's gay nightlife is better than New Yorks if you are looking to have fun.

New York gay night life is depressingly sanitized and boring.

Chicago is better for gays.

Also, their subway system is better now.

R77 is impersonating me.

And R68--while refreshingly honest and humbe---basically answers the question and substantiates exactly WHY Chicago is flyover land

Dessert at Alinea

[quote]I can't stand the cold, so I retired to Florida.

no problem with standing the stupid then?

[quote]O'hare airport is one of the BEST.

Are you fucking kidding me??? As an Illinoisan, I can say that O’Hell is a fucking zoo! The people that work there are the biggest assholes ever and the airport is a nightmare.

Chicago has a better original theater scene than New York, and certainly better than LA.

[quote] basically answers the question and substantiates exactly WHY Chicago is flyover land

Give it a rest, Mary. That song only has one note.

West of Clark Street?

R52 that was a short little increase for O'Hare. Their lead lasted a very short while and the world's busiest airport went back to Atlanta Hartsfield/Jackson where it has stayed.

[quote][R25] Not on par with Stanford and UC Berkeley, the two examples cited, not even close.

total bullshit

UofC and Stanford tied for #6 and Northwestern is #9 in USN&WR rankings. Berkeley is #9

any reputable rating org would put Uof Chicago on par with Stanford. CA has let its once great public university system go to shit

The hilarious thing is that most of these twats on this thread from NYC and LA bitching about Chicago will end up having to leave NYC & LA one day when their jobs fall through and their severance pay and 2 week safety net savings run out. And that's when they'll begin to hate NYC and LA. I've seen it happen more times than I can count.

It gave us Roxie Hart!

We gave you Roxie Hart. We were New Yorkers

^Kander

If New Yorkers were really in love with their city and satisfied with their quality of life, they would have no reason to disparage any other city. But..........

Saying Chicago is not a global capital is not disparaging it.

R93, REAL New Yorkers would never disparage another city like these goober transplants who want everyone to think they're native NYers. REAL New Yorkers know full well there are lots of better cities than NYC, and that's why so many of them are clammering to move to them.

It is factual incorrect r94. It's not a debatable point, Chicago is a major global city. Not on the level of a New York/London, but in groupings of global cities after that.

Again see it in black and white in the study linked at r19.

[quote]The majority of municipalities in the Chicago region, including the city itself, lost population last year, according to newly released estimates from the U.S. Census Bureau, part of a familiar trend of overall stagnation and decline among Midwestern cities.

Congratulations on finding a source that labels Chicago in the third tier of the top 35 cities in the world. Woohoo!

I’ve never been, except through the airport, but I find it interesting. It’s next to so many strange states, and people flow back and forth among them. Chicagoland as a concept is interesting.

University of Chicago is so cute. It looks like a newer Yale.

A top city is glamorous.

Is Chicago glamorous?

Is it?

Hong Kong is supposed to be glamorous, but in reality it's hot, humid, crowded and the air smells like diesel. What makes a city glamorous?

Billionaires, models, movie stars, top musicians, opera, famous restaurants, fashion shows, money.

wait cunts! do you have ANY idea how many loads i've had dumped in my ass in Chicago? probably more than anywhere else in the world! Im an international flight attendant for United.

[quote]Billionaires, models, movie stars, top musicians, opera, famous restaurants, fashion shows, money.

But you have all that in Las Vegas, and Las Vegas is the tackiest, most unglamorous place possible.

There are millionaires, billionaires, models, famous restaurants, etc. in Chicago also.

^pffft

"There are millionaires, billionaires, models, famous restaurants, etc. in Chicago also."

Damn straight, bitches.

Shut up, Oprah. You moved to Montecito, California.

"Flyover" is a term created by insecure people who moved to NYC, LA, SF, BOS from what they now call flyover country. They have no clue how obvious it is that they are not from here. They are just way too high strung and judgmental.

I love visiting Chicago. It's a fun city with one of the better food and gay scenes in the country, IMO.

Oh you silly boy, r91. I gave Roxie Hart to the world. I wrote my play based on my experiences covering the courthouse beat for the Chicago Tribune!

R50 I saw that production of FOLLIES at Candlelight! My partner at the time was a theatre critic for Chicago magazine. He was assigned to write the capsule review for it. The actress playing Phyllis was the wife of the director and owner of the theatre. My partner wrote she was "competent." Pullinsi, the director, called him and screamed at him and told him he was banned from the theatre. Except my partner was on the Jeff Committee (the Chicago equivalent of the Tonys) and banning him would have disqualified all of Candlelight's productions from consideration. We received an invitation to the next opening night, BYE BYE BIRDIE, which was much more their speed.

[quote]Chicago winters are worse than NY winters

New York winters aren't even that rough, Chicago winters are significantly worse.

If Chicago is not a top city, does that mean it is a bottom?

I love Chicago; it's one of my favorite places to visit. Good museums, truly world-class architecture, and still has a working-class feel to a lot of the neighborhoods. Theater there is a lot more affordable than New York as well.

And I love being able to get downtown on the Blue Line from O'Hare in 45 minutes. If you fly into Midway it's more like 20 minutes.

I always have a good time in New York and L.A., but Chicago has a lot to offer as well.

Somewhat off-topic, but Lori Lightfoot already seems to be much better mayor than DeBlasio. She is making substantial changes to the city.

And for our real estate porn/rich WASP lady aficionados, it has a swanky apartment building designed by Rosario Candela.

I never agreed that Chicago was the most amazing architectural city. It is probably the best in a very specific style - early 20th century skyscraper. But in terms of overall diversity, interest, uniqueness and modernity, I never wonder Chicago an architectural city. It just has a lot of early skyscrapers. Boystown and most actual neighborhoods in Chicago are Midwestern boring.

There's a lot of opinion in these posts and not much fact. You may love or hate Chicago for various reasons, but from an economic and functional standpoint Chicago it a world class city. Simply the numbers bear this out in terms of corporate headquarters, population density and diversity, wealth, transportation availability and culture. The most important of these is it's economic status This is a quantifiable metric where Chicago rates quite high among peer cities.

None of these facts negate the concept it is still "flyover" land.

It's more qualitative.

Trendy travelers tend to talk

Of London, Paris, Rome, New York

Like only they were stylish and unique

But out in the Midwest

Is the city I love the best

A town so smart it's spelling starts

With: C - H - I - C...Chic!

Oh sweetie, bless your heart. An example of a “world city” is New York, London, Paris, Rome, or Tokyo. Chicago May be the finest the American Midwest has to offer, but it’s still the Midwest.

R121, it is very Midwestern to think there is a checklist of qualifications. I have worked with a number of Midwestern folk and they always think there is a checklist or a rubric.

R123, Rome doesn't really belong in that list of cities. It's heyday was long ago and it doesn't have the economic/corporate cache of NYC, London, Paris, Tokyo, etc.

Yes the list of global capitals these days is dominated by a lot of Asian cities. Hong Kong, Singapore, Shanghai, Beijing. A place like Rome is noticeably less important than those.

R126, exactly. LA, San Francisco/Bay Area, Chicago, Toronto, DC, Boston all have more economic importance than Rome. Rome is important for its legacy/history, not its present day.

Hello?

The biggest economy in Italy isn't even Rome, it is Milan.

They have a problem with wilding.

Wilding in April.

^Oooh, teenagers behaving badly. I'm sure that's a problem unique to Chicago.

R3 a lot of poles too which is okay because they are usually hot.

People love to pretend teens everywhere are well behaved, all but Chicago b

Chicago trash

R134, I often wonder why conservatives have such a rage hard-on for Chicago. Is it because they associate it with Obama?

Obama and Winfrey....part of the problem

We like conservative cock. And we don't kiss and tell.

It sure looked international last time I was there, as a matter of fact it looked great and successful. So many corporations so much money and hardly any rats.

I travel to the suburban truck stops and make the conservative cock wear a red MAGA hat when the fuck me.

Uh, Chicago has the most rats of any city in America r139. I mean that's just the reality of cities, they are a great environment for rodents to live.

“The glory that was Rome, is of another day”

People from all over the world live there. The museums are great, the Lakefront is beautiful and well concieved. Anything you need is there in Chicago, except for good weather.

Yes r136. Chicago became a huge talking point for the right during the Obama administration.

[quote], I often wonder why conservatives have such a rage hard-on for Chicago. Is it because they associate it with Obama?

They still haven’t gotten over the 1960 election when.

Oops

How is Chicago limited? I'm curious.

"Hog Butcher for the World"

You'll never get out from under that.

Grew up & currently live in NYC, have lived in Chicago & LA. You still often really need a car in Chicago - the EL is limited and the stops are often too close together so it can be slow going. The lack of express tracks / trains really makes a difference. Many years ago - when I lived there - they ran skip-stop trains during rush hour - don’t think they still do. The bulk of Chicago is more like Brooklyn - low rise & residential. Nothing wrong with that but the vibe is very different than most of Manhattan and it’s not as walkable. There certainly are lots of great cultural opportunities, but the overall feel is more provincial and slower paced than NY or LA.

I agree that Chicago is not as urban as Manhattan, but nowhere else in America is as urban as Manhattan r149.

It's a shit ton more urban and less car-dependent than LA.

Oh yeah - no question R150 - even with a car LA is now a broken city - you simply can’t get around during the day at all. In my opinion Chicago is much more urban, and a much nicer place to live than LA, but coming from NYC I have very unrealistic public transportation standards.

the snowflakes are so beautiful !

Chicago falls in that group of urban cities below NY: , San Francisco, Boston, Chicago Philadelphia and DC.

Of those Philly and Chicago are the most affordable. They offer the best combination in America of urban style living at an affordable price.

R153, agree 100%. No, Chicago isn't "better" than NYC by the metrics people usually go by but I think it punches above its weight in certain categories like its downtown, restaurants, bars (one of the best bar cities in the world), concentration of corporate jobs and definitely in affordability. I do wish it had the NYC level of diversity and was less flat but oh well.

I've never had a bad time in Chicago as a visitor. Wonderful food, plenty to do, certainly nice enough people on the level you meet them as a visitor. Great architecture as well. Lovely museums, too. O'Hare works well enough when it's not snowing (they can keep Trudeau/Dorval in Montreal open, though...and it's snowier there. They do a better job keeping the streets open in Montreal, too.) But it's no longer top tier and no longer even what it once was: America's second city. Paul Harvey never mattered much to people who weren't already tuned in to listen for the latest soybean and hog prices. Irv Kupcinet was no Walter Winchell. Who has replaced them? Compare Chicago's rankings to NYC and LA in terms of media presence and importance. And the University of Chicago, esteemed as it is, is pretty much [italic]the[/italic] university. Northwestern's a good school, but can Chicago compare to the depth (and sheer number) of top-ranked higher-ed institutions in places like NYC, or LA, or Austin or Boston? They're the competition in the US and for a city of its size, Chicago lags far behind.

That's the crux of Chicago's problem: it's no longer enough to be Hog Butcher to the World or where you change from the Twentieth Century Limited to the Super Chief with lunch at the Pump Room in between trains. Investment in technology in Chicago has been minuscule for years compared to places like San Jose/San Francisco, NYC, Boston/Cambridge, Seattle, Austin and the like when it ought to have been the most important priority to anyone who wanted the city to prosper. That in a nutshell is why their status has fallen - Chicago didn't keep up where it matters.

Chicago doesn't have the schools and without the graduates who want to stay there, where are the start-ups? Chicago's still a twentieth century city in a twenty-first century economy and sadly (I so miss Army and Lou's) the crime, the problems with the public schools and transit infrastructure, and the state of Illinois' financial problems are all nationally known and they don't exactly encourage in-migration let alone investment.

Yes, it's cheaper. There's a reason for that - people won't pay as much to live there.

R155, Not exactly. The most desirable part of the city is where people are flocking to. Chicago has quite possibly the fastest growing downtown area in America. And regarding schools, U of Chicago and Northwestern are pretty close in quality to Columbia and certainly better than NYU. And Austin only has the University of Texas which is a highly ranked public school but not on the level of University of Chicago or Northwestern. Chicago gained more people under 45 making over $100,00 than any other city except NYC between 2010 and 2016. It also has the highest percentage of people with a bachelors degree of all the top 5 largest cities in the country. I do agree with you on the technology part though. If you want a large city with a lack of enough people with degrees, LA is that city. The bay area and NYC attract far more people from the most elite schools than LA does.

I just don’t understand guys saying Chicago is a “good value” and you get a “lot of what the real cities offer at a bargain price.” They’re talking like it’s an item at a market that’s marked down for quick sale. Why would any intelligent gay man choose to live their lives in a “bargain city?” Life’s short - this isn’t a rehearsal!!

There’s already been a thread on this OP. Would it have killed you to have done a search first before you posted this? I mean really? What’s wrong with having a little consideration for others and doing a search first? Would it really have been that hard? Would it?

Not everybody on the planet wants to live their life by performing on your figurative NYC stage, R157. Some people prefer to live out of the spotlight and *imagine this!* actually think their "lesser" cities and towns are preferable. Not everyone wants the same things as you.

Yes, life is too short to overpay in rent r157. I was recently contacted about a job in SF, but I would never take it. The cost of living is simply absurd, it isn't worth it.

R160 - you don’t think one day you’ll regret the life you could have had in SF? There’s no do overs!!

Nope, I'm good r161. I've been to San Francisco plenty, love visiting the city, no desire to live there.

Would it have killed you to have at least posted a picture or link OP? I mean would that have been so hard? Would it? Why don’t you try to think more of others next time before you post?

Are DLers really claiming Chicago is flyover?

Yes they are, R164. And they're doing it because they are as every bit as ignorant, biased, unreasonable and hate filled as the Deplorables they supposedly despise.

Calling a city flyover is the same as racist deplorables who are OK putting kids in cages?

Mary! Calm down.

Have you ever been to Chicago? It is a complete Flyoverberg.

[quote] Saying Chicago is not a global capital is not disparaging it.

According to many academics in the urban studies field, it is a global city.

I would agree that, grouped by size and density, it's on the B tier of global cities.

But no matter how many time the moronic, repetitive cunts want to call it flyover land, it IS NOT and WILL NEVER BE a "flyover" area.

It's not perfect, but it is global, bitches.

Global

Well I was raped in Chicago so it is a big city.

[quote]Well I was raped in Chicago so it is a big city.

And I saw a man, he danced with his wife!

What a toddlin' town!

[quote]The idea of flyover cities is really a misnomer. As America has grown pretty much all cities now are progressive and cosmopolitan with lots of educated people.

This is so true. American cities aren't the backwaters they once were. Lots of interesting and educated people are in cities all over the US. And it's a lot easier for gay people, too.

For example, if you're a gay kid in Columbus, OH you don't have to hop on a Greyhound bus to NYC or SF to have a nice life anymore, as previous generations had to do. Not that NYC or SF are affordable for anyone except the wealthy anymore, but that's beside the point.

You can be gay and stay in Columbus and have a very nice life. The need to move away from certain places to go to the "big city" is not a pressing need as it used to be for gay people or other people who didn't fit in.

And I know NYers think everybody in the world wants to live in NY, but that's not true at all. Most people wouldn't want to live in NY if they could do it for free.

R173 with the internet there’s no need to have to live anywhere.

Btw, all these queens from NYC talking smack about Chicago are all transplants from flyover country. I'm not even exaggerating a little. Your average native NYCers couldn't be bothered bickering over something so moronic.

Btw, all these queens from NYC talking smack about Chicago are all transplants from flyover country. I'm not even exaggerating a little. Your average native NYCers couldn't be bothered bickering over something so moronic.

R175 oh without a doubt. It’s like those guys on Grindr etc. that have their name as “New Yorker” or “NYC” etc. they overcompensate to prove they’re “NY” as opposed to who they really are and where they are actually from.

Some people even lie about coming from somewhere else. It’s pathetic.

SF Dems:

Chicago is advertising itself as a travel destination on the London Underground. I guess it thinks it can attract some cold weather Londoners but it would be better off trying to attract Norwegians for comparable weather. London is about 12c this time of year and we rarely seeing lying snow.

R178, SF is actually very close to scenery that looks like the bottom of that image.

Sorry dears.

Chicago is a lovely well lit place with a nice museum and some tall buildings.

It’s not exactly on the world axis of powerful cities. And that’s Ok. Not every city aspires to the world stage. But we do know dinner theater when we see it.

I agree with the people saying it’s not an altogether awful city. The thing I disagree with are the posters that think it’s equal to NYC. Just be honest that it’s not as great as NY and we will respect you much more.

It's not, and a couple of shrill, bombastic posters reflexively dripping spittle isn't going to convince anyone it is.

Let's clarify one key point. New Yorkers never think of Chicago. They never reference it or compare themselves to anyone or anything in Chicago (or Boston or Philadelphia for that matter.)

All.of that being said, I enjoyed Chicago quite a bit. It was like New York but everything's just a block or two closer.

Finally, the people I know who speak against Chicago the most, by far,....are people from Chicago.

[quote] New Yorkers never think of Chicago

NY are famously and notoriously self-centered.

New York competes with London, and no other city.

Excuse me? I want an Oscar for stomping around the stage like a truck driver.

The exquisite elegance of NYC cannot be matched.

*eyeroll*

NYC is a fug place. London is much more majestic with its royal parks.

There's a lot of 'flyover' land on the coasts as well. I agree that Chicago is often overlooked and not discussed enough.

For some reason, Minneapolis has this PR about how great it is to live there - but I've never understood why. I know this sounds self-serving, but most 'great' cities also have a strong gay culture and scene.

There are several large US cities (Boston, Detroit, Houston, Minneapolis) with absolutely pathetic gay scenes - and it makes them boring and humdrum. A lot of articles about great places to live are written with the white middle-class mentality in mind.

Gay populations really add a lot to a city's vibrancy. Chicago has a great gay presence, so it's a winner for me.

R178, I'll bet you anything the bottom half of that image is of the Sierra Nevadas in California. Whoever made up that meme totally failed.

R190 - you would consider Houston as having a pathetic gay scene? I have to disagree. There’s actually a “gayborhood” (Montrose) and it’s quite charming. There’s a bar for every different interest (leather, sports, dick dancers, stand & model, country, and dance.) You may need to reassess your impression.

Which cities are not flyover? Is Pittsburgh? Cleveland? Dallas? Is everything flyover territory by DL standards if it's not one of the big coastal cities? I'm just curious.

Chicago is the Paris of North America.

R192's feelings were hurt.

Even Toronto has passed it up in coolness.

Toronto was never been cool to begin with.

Can we all agree that London is cooler than any US city, including NYC ?

Chicago is the murder capital of the USA.

The pubs close too damn early in London.

[quote]Chicago is the murder capital of the USA.

It's not the entire city, it's only confined to a couple of neighborhoods.

This conversation has run its course. Thread closed.

r202 you are not the DL Hall Monitor.

London is so fucking boring!! Puleeze! And it’s so awful and unsafe now. I’ve had managers come for work from London to Chicago and say they feel safer in Chicago than London. Especially with all the muslins. And I can’t believe this thread is still going you idiots

'Especially with all the muslins. '

Fuck, yes - the London MUSLINS. All those diaphanous drapes blowing in the wind! Absolutely terrifying.

You're a spaz, R204.

People get shot and killed several times a day in Chicago. London has around twenty shootings A YEAR. It's very safe, unless you go walking around the council estates.

Again, Chicago's shootings are only in the ghetto. The rest of the city is fine.

[quote]It's very safe, unless you go walking around the council estates.

There are council estates all over the city.

probably was equating muslin with the white sheets he wears to the klan meetings

I would personally be terrified of the Muslims in London and Paris. I’m very happy to stay on the UES. (That’s Upper East Side for all you poors)

better hide out in your saferoom snowflake. we're in your hood

r209 says he lives on the UES but it's actually Yorkville.

"Is everything flyover territory by DL standards if it's not one of the big coastal cities? I'm just curious."

YES, OF COURSE!

You listen to some posters and everything in America outside of New York is worthless flyoverland. Some begrunding acceptance is given to LA just because these posters are into movies.

Nobody believes me when I say this, but one city where I had a ton of fun while visiting was Salt Lake City, of all places. It's not all about Mormons. There are a lot of crazy, interesting people there. I had a blast.

And let's be clear, by New York its the island of Manhattan below 96th street. There is about 22 sq miles of America that is worth living in apparently.

R207, yes - but they are marked and are incredibly easy to avoid.

[QUOTE] I would personally be terrified of the Muslims in London and Paris. I’m very happy to stay on the UES. (That’s Upper East Side for all you poors)

Hoe, did it slip your mind that Muslims killed 3k people in Manhattan, and less than 7p in London?

*less than 70 people

I agree OP. Chicago was very nice when I visited there in the mid 1990s. I am glad it was the summer, not fall or winter, and I would not want to live there in the winter.

I always thought "flyover land" meant rural areas of the Midwest, or cities that are associated with very rural Midwestern states like Omaha, Kansas City, Iowa city, etc.?

Kansas City is boring AF and St. Louis is just a hellhole.

[quote] Chicago was very nice when I visited there 25 years ago. And if we learn one thing on DL, it's that the world should be EXACTLY the way it was 25 years ago.

R214, I agree. Salt Lake City is not flyover land. Neither is Seattle, Portland, Baltimore, St. Louis, Boston, Atlanta, Detroit and any number of American cities. You may not like them, but they do not carry the parochial midwestern vibe that Chicago does.

Chicago is a flyover city.

I do not understand why there is any debate on this.

I do not understand why R222 is not in an institution for the criminally stooopid.

1. The weather sucks. 2. It's in the Midwest 3. It's extremely segregated - the poor areas look like a 3rd world and are just allowed to be shit 4. That lake being passed off as beautiful, when it's depressing and creepy 5. People are fake nice and if you live anywhere but the city proper its suburban hell 6. The times I have been there the city just depresses. NYC is alive and bursting with energy, SF is gorgeous in it's many ways( even with the stupid tech takeover and our homeless problem ) LA is just warm and full of possibilities both good and bad. Chicago is grim 7. Corrupt government and high fucking taxes 6.

R44 That was exactly my impressions of the city and state. Very segregated/separatist attitudes with a huge chip on the shoulders wrt other cities/states, especially California.

R224 is yet another DL poster who is unable to distinguish between fact and personal opinion.

According to R224, LA and NYC don't have "high fucking taxes". OK then.

R225, I have lived here forever and I have never met anyone in the city who has ever mentioned California (or any other non-Midwestern states) in a derogatory way unless they are Republicans.

R222, do you understand the concept of "flyover"? A lot of the cities you mentioned are on the east or west coast. And you think Detroit and St. Louis are not flyover but Chicago is?

Yes I am laughing hard at the idea that ST LOUIS counts as a cosmopolitan capital but Chicago is flyoverland.

Oh dear, there have been a lot of dumb posts in this thread but that might take the cake.

[quote]It's extremely segregated - the poor areas look like a 3rd world and are just allowed to be shit

Like NYC isn't the same? lol

I like cake.

Everywhere has some segregation, but no New York doesn't even make the list of most segregated cities.

Chicago is always near the top. In this ranking it is number 4.

Maybe the non-Americans can solve this. Do you guys consider Chicago a "major world city"?

It’s a Toddlin’ Town NOT a major city.

I remember going to the red line after work and what I wouldn’t give to have had a camera. The south bound side of the platform was all African Americans and the north bound was all white. I was coming down the escalator and you could literally draw a line right down the middle. I know it has changed some sense then but it is indeed a ver segregated city.

My other memory is of getting off work in the loop one evening and not paying attention to where I was going and getting on the south bound train. I stood there for a few minutes before I realized I was the only white person on the car then I looked around and all the African American folks were smiling at me as they realized I’d realized I’d gotten on the wrong train. We all started laughing. It was a sweet moment really.

I remember going to the red line after work and what I wouldn’t give to have had a camera. The south bound side of the platform was all African Americans and the north bound was all white. I was coming down the escalator and you could literally draw a line right down the middle. I know it has changed some sense then but it is indeed a ver segregated city.

My other memory is of getting off work in the loop one evening and not paying attention to where I was going and getting on the south bound train. I stood there for a few minutes before I realized I was the only white person on the car then I looked around and all the African American folks were smiling at me as they realized I’d realized I’d gotten on the wrong train. We all started laughing. It was a sweet moment really.

Gretchen, watching a free summer concert in Grant Park, "I wonder if they know how cool their city is." Me: "Trust me. They know."

I was recently in downtown Chicago, the "safer" areas near the hotels, and at night I felt much less safe than in Manhattan. Other than that, I do quite like Chi-town and don't really consider it to be part of Flyoveristan.

I was still raped in Chicago.

Most cities feel more dangerous than Manhattan. Manhattan is surprisingly safe in the modern era, a complete turn around of its past. Of the 25 largest cities, New York has the lowest crime rate.

You were asking for it, r240.

Asking?!? R242 qualifies as begging.

R236/237 captures it exactly. I feel segregation in Chicago more than any other major city - including southern cities like Atlanta, Houston and Dallas.

R230, I do not think anyone has said that St Louis is cosmopolitan.

The issue here is is a city a flyover or does it have its own character. Chicago is very Midwestern. It is as if they took a dozen small midwestern towns and stuck them together with crazy glue.

St Louis does have its own character. I would never want to go there again, but it is not Midwestern in character.

R245, take your meds.

Detroit is a grotesque place full of phone goats.

The lake Chicago is set on is horrible. Like something a monster would emerge from. I could not wait to move away.

All you segregation nuts, it's not true. There's a reason why people like Oprah and Obama came from Chicago and not from Atlanta or Dallas. Chicago is far less racist.

R249 yiu never moves there. Chicago is way more segregated. White People and black People barely interact. I lived there. It was shocking

That's untrue R250. Oh yes, they interact in Atlanta. Blacks are the workforce and whites the supervisors.

The problem with Chicago is that it’s residents think it’s the only city in the world. It’s probably because it’s so secluded from any other place worth going.

On the coasts, you’ve got easy drives to multiple other cities and shorter flights to other countries. Every local I’ve met in Chicago seemed to have grown up in southern Illinois, Wisconsin or Michigan, and is so pleased to have made it to “the city”.

That said, it’s beautiful, has great architecture, and cute guys. I didn’t find the restaurants to be any cheaper than comparable restaurants in NYC though. I think the trick to affording NYC is to buy your home. Yes, rent is crazy high. If you buy, you save that money and will likely get a huge return on your investment when you sell.

Sorry for the typo. I do know the difference between it’s and its. Apparently my autocorrect doesn’t.

"The problem with Chicago is that it’s residents think it’s the only city in the world."

The problem with New York is that it’s residents think it’s the only city in the world.

There, fixed it for you.

Sorry for the typo. I do know the difference between it’s and its. Apparently my autocorrect doesn’t.

CHGO

R249. It's literally true that Chicago is one of the most segregated cities in the country. That's not debatable, it's a fact.

Why do people think their opinions are more valid than actual facts.

The segregation and the harsh winters are really the only things I hate about Chicago. I say that as a long-time resident. But I've noticed that there is way more interracial dating with younger people in the city. I see South Asian girls dating black guys a lot now which I never saw when I was in college 10 years ago. But there is still that really sharp divide between north and south side which, if anything, is worse (except for the built-up parts near the lake like Hyde Park).

Aside from New York it's really the only large American city really worth living in.

Because the measures of segregation aren't accurate.

Slave societies, after all, are "integrated" in the sense of proximity but that says nothing at all about mixing. I have never met a Chicagoan who was afraid to send their child to school with blacks, and that is so pervasive in the south that even in 2019, it takes unusual courage to go against it.

Chicago is like a colder, snowier London but without the history and beauty.

The problem with Chicago is that it is overshadowed by the cosmopolitan glitter of its closest neighbor, exciting Milwaukee.

Milwaukee wtf? These terrible names, man.

R261, no, not at all. Chicago is a very attractive city. The two cities are so different, they don't warrant a comparison to one another.

Chicago is Atlanta covered in ice.

R205 seems correct.

Chicago and Atlanta are very different cities r265.

Atlanta is a sprawling sunbelt city, similar to Dallas, Houston and LA.

Chicago is more dense urban city, similar to Philadelphia and New York.

"An Australian Explains Why London Is the Worst City on Earth."

R268, what I really don't like about London is that SO much of the architecture is grey and some is even black. Yes, a lot of cities have tons of grey architecture but London is grey everywhere, up and down. It's hard not to feel depressed in a city like that. It's why I prefer just about any major city in mainland Europe over London.

[QUOTE] Yes, a lot of cities have tons of grey architecture but London is grey everywhere, up and down. It's hard not to feel depressed in a city like that

You have clearly never seen beyond the brutalist architecture of the South Bank. London has been around for more than ten centuries. The majority of it is built in red brick. There are a lot of white and sugar almond houses around north and west London. A lot of pale, Victorian architecture.

"Chicago is like a colder, snowier London but without the history and beauty."

Of course Chicago doesn't have the history of London, because it's @900 years younger than London. As late as 1833, the year of its incorporation, Chicago only had 200 residents. In 1833, St. Louis already had been around for @70 years, New Orleans for about 115 years.

Are planes not allowed to fly over NYC?

R271, I had no idea until recently that Chicago is younger than Detroit. Despite this, I think Chicago has a very interesting history. The same cannot be said of other cities that are around the same age. Toronto is older but its history is not nearly as fascinating.

[quote]Then there's that grating, nasal Chicago EEYAKCCENT!

Please tell me you're not a New Yorker?

Loved the takedown of London R268. Same can be said of many hypergentrified cities of 2019. Just not worth it. Maybe everyone is coming to that conclusion. We just want an AFFORDABLE city to live in. Chicago provides that. Maybe missing some key elements (like reasonable weather) - but it’s not a bad option for someone in a normal job trying to survive. The global super rich cities have just gotten way too expensive.

Chicago is a dope ass city with hot white boys all over.

Chicago is fine, on a par with NY or LA, sort of. But the weather is absolutely hideous in the summer and winter, far worse than NYC or LA.

Maybe you should ask way so many people move to California. That migrations has been going on for over a hundred years. Most of the snooty old money in San Francisco came from Chicago. Opera and her ilk from Chicago to Santa Barbara for example. Even my old boss, get rich there then move to California. I wonder why? You don't see a migration in the opposite direction really.

Chicago is awful.

R278, in Chicago, we know how to spell the name Oprah.

R277, Chicago summers are far better than NYC's--no contest. But the winters are worse than NYC's or LA's, obviously.

Chicago summers are AMAZING. NYC summers are so much more humid and sticky. Ugh.

Chicago winters are just awful though.