New Will & Grace tonight!!!! (October 24)

The only good acting I expect to see is Debra and Megan pretending they don't hate each others guts

[quote] horsdeorves

Oh. Dear.

I love Dataloungers who are easily amused.

Indeed.

Didn't they already do the Grace is pregnant thing with the last incarnation? How well did that work out? Will they rewrite this again in the next reboot: Will & Grace The Golden Years. If Deb and Meg haven't made up by the next reboot they'll just have Karen and Jack still in NYC and Will and Grace in a Florida retirement community.

In this feud Deb is Marcia and Meghan is Jan, right?

That last scene with the trash chute had me howling.

"I got you Babe."

Would love reboot to continue, but it’s a mess. Too much fast camera-cuts editing. The over-the-top sweetened canned laughter that obviously is disconnected from the scenes and characters’ dialogue. Too many scenes that don’t involve the core four. Did they actually practically edit out Jack and his new husband’s greeting kiss near the episode’s start? And the way Grace reacts to finding out she’s pregnant, and she and Will talk about it when she tells him back at their place, has the feel that the reboot didn’t just dream up the original run’s finale, but actually the entire original run including W & G’s remembering and reflecting on their own original-show pregnancy attempt. No wonder it’s ending—nobody seems to care on their set, although I sense that the Karen character and Mullally have the charisma to be able to carry on in a spin-off, if they do wished (I do!).

Time to say Goodnight, Ladies.

Oh honey.

....

Waiting for McCoy (Matt Bomer) to return.

Is Messing really pregnant? She looks like she's showing the way Lucy did when she announced the news to Ricky at the Tropicana.

Mullally and Messing only appeared together in the tag at the end of the show. In fact, looks like most of tonight's show could have been filmed with only one actor at a time. And, tellingly, no "Will & Grace is recorded in front of a live studio audience" at the beginning of the ep.

It's such a shame when co-workers can't get along.

Why do rich successful TV stars have be silly backstage Feuds? Just do your work and cash your paycheck and stop being so petty.

Supporting actors should respect their leading lady

I don't even care if the shows are meh. Just the surrealness of seeing all the actors recreate their roles ten years later is so awesome. And a couple of the new shows were damn near as good as the originals.

I'm laughing out loud again. I haven't at a sitcom in a long, long time. Love them all.

Megan made the show. Eric is looking old and saggy.

Team Messing here. Mullally is a big ole Trumpster. Fuck her and fuck her chubby, bland-as-dishwater real-life husband.

I think Mullally and her husband are pill-popping assholes. Messing is a nightmare of course, but it's telling that Mullally also unfollowed Sean Hayes on Instagram, which means she doesn't only have a beef with Deb. She also had a problem with Shelley Morrison who played Rosario. Plus, Megan was a huge condescending bitch on her own talk show. Common denominator: Megan

All that said, she remains the best performer on the show, and I still enjoy her.

I don't get disregarding the previous runs work for a new show. Why wasn't the finale taken into consideration?

The only reboot that was really done right was Murphy Brown. Unfortunately, they only wanted to do that one season.

How many episodes does this final season have? I imagine we won't start getting leaks as to what the feud is about until after the show has finished its run.

Debra doesn’t want to Sling with her.

DM is reporting Megan took a "leave of absence" during the filming of final season due to the tension and won't be in two of the episodes.

Does anyone know the episode where Karen makes out with one of the guys in a limo?

MB makes an appearance

*SPOILERS*

The pacing was way off and scenes felt pieced together from different episodes. Even the acting wasn't up to its usual quality. That subway scene with Messing ugly crying about her pregnancy was like a bad burlesque of a vaudeville routine. The one romantic moment with Jack and Estefan standing in a dumpster was painful to watch. The whole episode was devoid of soul.

Gloria Estefan was on Will and Grace?

That pic of Bomer is so hot! Any more?

If Messing was going for a Lucy cry on the subway she missed by miles.

I love W&G--the original and the reboot. This feud make me sad. It;s still has the best acting and writing on TV. Get it together, girls.

Megan is not a Trumpster. She can't stand him. Ever see her in an interview when she talks about the orange turd? She has no use for him.

R21 because it was awful?

I hope Grace doesn't miscarry in a dramatic Emmy baiting episode. I'm sick of these baby story lines on this show that go nowhere. There've been at least five of them so far.

I thought the whole point of a reboot is you have something to say? I think the writers/producers are throwing the actors into the deep in, and they are panicking. All the fighting, is probably over story lines and screen time. IF they had a story to tell with scripts, then this could not really happen. It is a mess and the actors are trying to compensate.

I liked it. I laughed a lot. I don't love Debra who seems to be walking through it. But Megan is perfect, as always, and doesn't look a day older than she did in 2006, and then... the trash chute, great! Laughed out loud. "Did you clock-block me?"

is this really the last season?

It’s disappointing that they can’t capture the magic of the old show. I still love it. A couple of the later episodes are my all time favorites - the one where they go to Will’s mothers for Xmas and they help put on a Christmas show. All three plots are great. The other one is when they run into Vince at the cheap pizza place and Will thinks he’s a waiter because his life went to shit. The two dinner parties make me laugh till I cry.

Meh.

Still love it. It is still funny and has more comical moments than most other sitcoms.

I have a feeling the tension started before this summer. I think Megan wanted out and they decided to have this be the last season. Or the tension is because Megan wanted out and they decided it was the last season when the others wanted to continue.

I agree that the energy has been way off on most of the reboot episodes, although it has had some moments. Messing seems especially rusty. She gives the same performance but it seems more performed now and less organic.

I think McCormack looks remarkably good particularly given his age of 56. I’m 41 and I would have wanted his physique at 36.

Jack's frequently discarded Cher doll has more range than Messing.

"I think Megan wanted out..."

She'll be 61 in November- doesn't she need the money for retirement?

Maybe MM wanted the baby story line? And what happened to Will and Grace working together?

All of these people are rich from residuals. They don't need retirement money, but they want to stay in the public eye. Sean Hayes will have the best post W&G career.

i feel sorry for the actors. I feel if you reboot, you must have story lines and scripts.

Embarrassing. Crap. Good riddance.

[quote]Sean Hayes will have the best post W&G career.

He produced NBC's "Grimm" for years & seems to have carved out a niche doing that with other shows/productions.

That one just lasted the longest.

Hayes is a pianist/musician and a producer in addition to being a very funny comic actor. He has a good toolbox to sustain himself in front of and behind the camera.

Messing is worth more money somehow, but she isn’t memorable in anything except as Grace, who is very clearly modeled on Lucy Ricardo, from the pratfalls to the pulled faces. But for someone who made a lead character out of an iconic TV character, she really did pull it off.

Mullally has acted consistently, and she’s done odd things like You, Me and the Apocalypse, and pulled them all off. She’s just always good, often better than her material. She seems a bit weird and annoying to me when I see her with her husband, but I don’t think anyone can deny the woman’s real talent.

I’ve never seen McCormack in anything but Will and Grace. He’s always moderately appealing. He’s probably big in Canada?

Love me some Estefan! More, please. And in his tighties.

R50, is nude ok?

Messing signed up for all three seasons a couple years ago - I’d she’s mad about, she’d been mad about it a long time.

There were rumours during the first run that there was friction between her and Deb, plus Shelley Morrison. It’s more of that, I’d bet.

I want to see more of Smitty!

I hope Grace’s character decides that it’s better to get an abortion. Dealing with this issue on a prime time show would be help promote safe, legal abortion.

I want to see more of "Driver".

I hope Grace dies during childbirth.

I hope Karen and Jack give Grace lots of tannis root tea, and in the final episode we flash forward and meet her son, Ronan Farrow, whose earthly father is Frank Sinatra, who had been living in obscurity in Italy when Grace met him.

R56 - LoL that would be amazing!!

I imagine both Debra and Megan are obnoxious and a chore to deal with, perhaps the blame is evenly distributed.

Megan has been told by the fans that she is the real star of the show and has developed quite an ego. Debra maintains that since her character’s name is in the show title that she is in fact the star. Knowing the fact that they would be average nobodies without Will & Grace, they should be very grateful of their fortune and fame.

It’s an ensemble. Karen is the most entertaining character, Jack is a good accessory, and Grace and Will are the bland base ingredients. Just as Kramer on Seinfeld and Phoebe on friends were the silliest and most surprising and entertaining ones—but their shows were not named after them because a little goes a long way with such cartoonishness. AbFab is the only series I can think of in which the standout, crazy, madcap characters are the anchor stars and the bland characters are the secondary accessories. I guess I Love Lucy, too, in a way. But Messing should understand, anyway, that no matter how much Lucille Ball impersonation she does and how good she is at it, her character never was going to have been the standout comic figure. It wouldn’t succeed that way, and she should accept that their formula worked very well and that she was a part of the success, and so was Mullally. I mean, I loved Will and Grace when it was very funny and I enjoyed all the characters. By contrast, I disliked Friends overall and thought it was mindless and stupid, even though its most mindless and cartoonish character, Phoebe, is funny and memorable. Will and Grace was good because of its ensemble’s abilities to play off one another and because of the writing.

R61 - well stated. Will & Grace at it’s peak was amazing television. But it’s been years since that synergy was captured on tape. I do watch it now, but it’s out of nostalgia and they are no where near what they used to be. I know all good things must end.

As for the baby story line, again -- seriously? The writers and producers couldn't come up with one single fresh idea after having all this time to think about it? Pffft.

R61. Well stated. Will & Grace is a great show, very well written and acted. One of the best ever. (And so much better than Friends.)

R62. Will & Grace is still a great show. It’s was great then as it is now. Sure it may b3 a bit different now, but it’s still one of the best shows on television. The magic is still there. It’s sad if there is discontent on the set now. I wish Karen was no5 going to be part of two upcoming episodes. She’s a big part of the magic.

R51 So that's how he got the gig. Where in the hell is that from? A porno?

I love Will & Grace. But no baby story lines, please. Everyone, just miscarry! In the words of Karen Walker, “Kids?! We don’t do kids!”

Maybe the kids story line in why Megan is pissed. Grace is having a baby. Will and McCoy might have a baby. And Jack and Esteban might have a baby. This leaves Karen, the funniest, most beloved character, somewhat marginalized without much of a story line. No kids! Besides, Jack already has a son, who’s quite good but thankfully rarely seen so that the plot stayed focused on the four principal actors.

R64 - Will & Grace is no longer a “great show.” It’s passable entertainment. Get it straight.

I’d give the better episodes of the revival an 85/100. Most average about 65. It has not been as good as the original. It’s been confused. The first episode was highly political, which is out of the show’s wheelhouse. Then it was the same zany plots about young narcissists, except that was bizarre because they’re not young at all and most of the actors were very out of practice. Then the series wised up and actually improved by having the characters realize they are not young and that they should settle down. Those were the better among this new crop, but they were a different show because there was a new kind of maturity and sometimes even melancholy—which in my opinion was touching and justified bringing the show back. The same was true of the Roseanne revival; it was the same show, but it felt...off. And yet at the same time it was good enough and certainly warranted based on the feeling of this era. I actually like The Conners, too, but it feels more like a basic sitcom after having dropped the albatross that was a burden but which added some needed mass.

For Will and Grace episodes to work for me today, they need to be heavier in heart than in zaniness for the sake of being zany. Karen getting off alone on her desk while Will frantically tried to get to his phone, alone, was very awkward and kind of sad to watch.

Mindless and pointless "entertainment". Below mediocre talent and writing. Are y'all really that hard up for TV shows? They have redone every storyline from the original finale. Stan died and now the babies. Something they wanted to convince everyone was a bad dream. So what was the point? This show is an insult to everyone's intelligence. Come on y'all. I need y'all to do better. Demand better.

R68 They lost their mojo, that's for sure. But I don't think "growing up" and the cliché of every love relationship culminating in parenthood is the way back to "heart." Will wants a baby since when? Are you effing kidding me? They need to fumigate the premises with more Karen, Beverly Leslie, cynicism and sarcasm so we can breathe again. How about embracing differences, quirkiness, lunacy, bad habits, blind spots, alternative lifestyles, excesses, vanity, silliness, mistakes, regrets and just plain friendship? Those were the things that made the show strong and validated everyone's humanity.

R70 - OMG YES!!!! So sick of heteronormativity in that show.

The show has never worked when it was centred on babies.

I agree that it was out of left field for Will to suddenly want a child!

Maybe Will and Grace will both have babies and then do a Netflix crossover episode and sacrifice their babies to the witches in exchange for youthful glamour.

R73 Yes! Anything is better than what they are doing now.

Please cancel this show immediately. Seeing Will and Jack look so old is depressing. (I’m their same age)

And how liberating was Grace's foray into promiscuity if she has to "pay the price" with a pregnancy? Even the heteronormativity is stale. Hello? The 1950's called and they want their women who enjoy sex and get punished for it back...

I feel like the show always pulls the rug out from underneath everyone and ends “happily” with the notion that all is well because they all have one another. I would be surprised if any of the we’re-having-babies storylines work out. They are really preposterous since all of them are in their 50s. They’re not going to have kids. That’s just a throughline for the situation comedy of the season. They will all end up alone and childless together, and back where they started.

Mullaley's wise to know that the show should end.

"... except that was bizarre because they’re not young at all"

I saw one episode in the 2nd reboot season where they seemed to intimate Will was around 45. Again?

The show doesn't need to end; it just needs to get back to what made it great in the first place.

Black comedy keeps it fresh, like breaking Jack's grandson out of conversion camp...

Does anyone here care about the characters’ stories? Like, really care about them? I feel like every episode is just another situation to move through, mainly to set up jokes and wild Karen and Jack antics, but the plot trajectory seems utterly irrelevant.

As discussed here, the original finale was abandoned without a care. Grace has had various relationships but none had mattered. I think we were supposed to be excited for her when she hopped on the plane with the stranger, but then we are told she cast him away without a care. (He’ll be back because of the pregnancy scare. Do you care?)

And people here have already said they don’t want Will to want a kid because it’s out of his character and out of the blue. Do you care about his relationship with Bomer?

Do you care about Jack’s relationship, other than the two of them diving down the garbage chute?

Do you care if Karen ODs?

I care about R82 shutting the hell up.

[quote]As discussed here, the original finale was abandoned without a care.

Like that's never been done before.

Ignoring the plot developments in the finale had definitely NEVER been done before

The show peaked in the original Season 5. The original final season, and especially the finale, was stale as fuck. Also, they couldn't do a reboot without ignoring the finale because W&G didn't speak for 20 years! The reboot had a spark at the beginning but that flickered.

To be fair, Wilma has wanted a baby since he pressured his hag into conceiving one with him in the 5th season.

R85, what's ironic is that Dan Conner lives, and Roseanne Conner is now dead in his place!

More Blythe Danner as Will's martini swilling WASP mom.

Why hasn’t Gwyneth guested as Will’s martini-swilling retiree older sister?

Will only has brothers like Grace only has sisters.

Goop could be a cousin?

The show that needs to die.

I'm disappointed John Slattery hasn't made a return visit as Will's brother.

I have nostalgic affection for the show but this iteration really feels like an aimless experiment with no real purpose or grounding storyline. I say it should go all-out bonkers like Riverdale or The OA: one episode can be dark and tragic, another can be supernatural, another inexplicably religiously themed. Throw in some alternate universe time shifting and a psychic giant octopus and you’ve got one hell of a final season.

I love W&G and K&J. Don’t leave us.

I’m just waiting for that Kate & Ally revival we all need!

Speaking of which, where’s the Designing Women reboot we were promised?

It's kind of like watching an old friend who left your life come back only for you to see him/her getting bashed to within an inch of their life in an apparent hate crime.

[quote] one episode can be dark and tragic, another can be supernatural, another inexplicably religiously themed. Throw in some alternate universe time shifting and a psychic giant octopus and you’ve got one hell of a final season.

Actually, then you get the final season of the original "Roseanne."

Megan has always been intelligent and talented, but pretty self-centered--and I say that as someone who knew her as a casual acquaintance when she was at Northwestern. She was always the center of attention, but she didn't seem connected to other people.

I think Messing has become Baby Jane Hudson--without the laughs.

The writers should do a Whatever Happened to Baby Jane dream sequence where Debra and Megan can torment each other and get it out of their systems,

Recast Karen as a sock puppet and carry on as if she’s real.

The show used to work as an ensemble with four people and it playing off of each other ,what happened with that?

It also depended on great guest stars.

I loved it when Karen was fucking Alec Baldwin.

Also Will’s mom always makes me laugh.

We only saw Jack's mom once for some reason.

Karen Walker's mom, Lois Whitley

McCoy was a fun addition to the cast.

....

....

I liked the little Mama Mia dance, wonder if Deb and Megan rehearsed separately.

where was the evidence of the feud in tonight's show?

oh, and "Jack" looked like shit.

It's a minstrel show. It's embarrassing. Good riddance.

I thought it was pretty funny tonight.

Karen was the star of the show tonight. And she looked great!

Grace had some hilarious scenes.

The good: Last week’s episode felt so stiff and paint by numbers and both the writing and the acting in this one were so much better.

The bad: If does feel as if the baby thing feels like it belongs to a bygone era and should not have been reintroduced. I was also wondering when Jack was counseling Will if the episode’s writers had ever seen Will and Grace. How could they dedicate a whole A storyline to Jack teaching Will about parenting a straight son and never mention Jack’s son...??? That was so bizarre. Or did I somehow miss Jack talking about Elliott?

The ugly: The whole revival of the series is following this pattern of unevenness. The first new season especially wobbled from stiff to polished and everyone in between with each installment. Last season had a better groove. So far this one has given us a pretty poor episode overall and then this one, which had great moments and good chemistry draped on a scaffolding of a tired plot.

No episode was worse than Grace Adler's ridiculously contrived me too moment.. It might have worked better with Karen and her past but with Grace it seemed like it was out of nowhere and false.

Jack has some big biceps when he was showing Will how to throw a basketball. Yum!

Hair and makeup sucks, this season. What's with Will's quiff that looks more like bedhead? Messy has never been his style. And Karen's wig looks too dark and severe.

[quote]How could they dedicate a whole A storyline to Jack teaching Will about parenting a straight son and never mention Jack’s son...??? That was so bizarre. Or did I somehow miss Jack talking about Elliott?

R117 No you didn't miss it. The writers need continuity help. They also can't seem to find the right balance between comedy and drama, this season.

Jump cut to: Three random guys Grace fucked in Europe suddenly end up on her couch with no explanation of how they got there. Sloppy.

so.... it appears that Grace will jump anything with a cock? even an old ugly Italian cabbie?

So we're falling back into old stereotypes like slut-shaming Grace after the season finale framed it as a positive step that Will and Grace were taking risks and following their hearts? smh

More Reid Scott, please. He’s looking good.

If only Ross that left his sweater there.

This last episode was terrific, one of the best ever. Still hate the baby story line, partly because it's predictable — Grace will have the baby, and she and Will will be it's parents. Well, duh.

Sorry, "its," not "it's"

Why did they even bring this mess back?

I loved the show in its heyday, and even found some of last season's episodes amusing. Sean Hayes remains one of the best physical comedians in the business, and Megan Mullaly's Karen has aged reasonably well (Megan was two years behind me at Northwestern). I find Eric McCormack just feels old (and I am older than he is), though I do enjoy Matt Bomer's wry somewhat self-reflexive turn on his own public image as the poster boy for beautiful but vacuous gay men strangely endearing. Debra Messing just seems like she's the worst drag queen being told she should do a Debra Messing impersonation. The idea of her Grace being a mother to anything requiring more affection or attention than a goldfish is horrifying. The narcissism and the self-absorption of the character when she was in her thirties had its moment, but now she just seems like someone whose children are in the car listening to Kidz'Bop.

R129 - money hungry tv studio trash people

“Megan Mullaly's Karen has aged reasonably well (Megan was two years behind me at Northwestern).”

(Relevant.)

Why did she want Patton Oswalt fired?

All this BTS dray-ma. *yawn* They couldn't hold it together for the handful of episodes left?

A brand new ep drops tomorrow. Who else is excited?

Show of hands???

Patton Oswalt is in the previews 4 Tonights Show!

Yeah and in the preview he is with Megan Mullally in a scene so they must have made up!

The Patron Oswalt episode was one of the better recent efforts. No where near how good the show was the first time around but certainly better than the last 2 or 3 episodes which were laugh-free.

The hair loss schtick was more evidence of running out of ideas. And suddenly McCormack appears no longer gray three episodes in. smh

Patton Oswalt is turning into Leslie Jordan

ok wait this may be a dumb question but I watched the first ep back and Will was talking about Matt Bomer's character and said he's a straight 10 but a gay 8 or something like that? I didn't get that, I mean I assume it's rating him straight vs gay but why would he be lower in the gay world - because women would like him more than gay men? I also didn't get how it was a joke? honestly curious anyone's thoughts

I think Charlie Sheen wiould be funny on this show. What kind of guest shot could he do?

R142 Make him Karen’s love interest so Megan has to make out with his skanky ass every week.

R141 Because gay standards are impossibly high.

I love Will & Grace, but the Patton Oswald episode was not funny. Give us back Will & Grace & Jack & Karen. I still love them all.

What is up with the neighbor lady character? They couldn't find someone who can act?

And how the fuck did Grace get the neighbor lady's DNA all of a sudden? Clumsy telegraphing of 23andme as product placement?

Absurd storylines and unfunny acting = More evidence the writers are running on empty

The neighbor is cringeworthy.

Lainie Kazazn was too busy?

R147 The neighbor had probably already done a DNA test herself and she showed up as a relative match. Grace wouldn’t have collected her DNA for any reason.

R144 then who is a gay 10?

R144 - the only gay 10 is dead. Liberace, RIP

“You don’t even like children. You call them Pez dispensers for stem cells!”

That line made me laugh.

So it seems they're having an episode coming up where they parody "I Love Lucy," with Messing mugging as Lucy. --I wonder whose idea that was? Inevitable, I suppose.

RIP Rosario. 😧

I wish they had brought back Jack’s mom. The casting of the parents on the show was absolutely perfect. They’ve overdone the tributes to and mentions of Bobbi Adler imo (as much as I loved the character). I’d have much preferred to see Jack’s mom move in with him as she recovered from surgery than the storyline about Jack and his husband which is tired and bordering on offensive.

They could have given us more Beverly Leslie. Given Grace a new career. Will with a partner from the start would have been interesting - maybe a pilot who would be gone enough to leave the ‘core four’ most of the time but it would have matured Will’s character and switched up his dynamic with Grace.

As it draws to a close I find myself seeing the missed opportunities and feeling a bit cheated as an OG fan that they’re giving us warmed up leftovers from the original run. It’s all a bit regressive and heteronormative too. Karen adopting would have surprised me. The other three with baby fever 💤

I’ve always suspected Veronica Cartwright either wasn’t asked to return or chose not to. She was so good in her single appearance and there were plenty of opportunities for her to reappear but they would aways just show Jack talking to her character on the phone. It was very noticeable since all the other parent actors were on multiple times.

There’s a YouTube video where Hal Linden talks about not having a very good time doing the show (he hated the constant rewrites.) Maybe Cartwright had a similar experience.