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I think it’s time We Revisit “A Streetcar Named Desire”(1951) & Vivien Leigh’s brilliant performance!

I saw this for the first time in High School, 9th Grade, after we had to read the play, and I was WOWWED by Vivien Leigh in this. Her performance is absolutely perfection! I know some people that find her a bit too over the top, but I disagree. It was a performance and still stands today, and doesn’t feel “safe” or “dated”. She went all out with the role of Blanche!

I also loved Marlon Brando in this, and I am not even a fan of his! He oozed sex in this. He was sex on legs, and very very manly. I loved how arrogant he could be, and love that he mumbles, because Stanley is the type that would be mumbling.

It works amazingly as a character study.

I know in the play that Stanley raped Blanche, and in the film too, but I know people that didn’t “get it” and didn’t know she was raped by watching the movie. Did you?

Fantastic adaptation of the play, and very iconic.

STELA!!!

I love Brando in this scene...

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by Anonymousreply 441July 28, 2020 12:54 AM

Brando was an absolute STUD in this movie.

James Dean WISHES he lived up to this performance and natural sexuality Brando had.

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by Anonymousreply 1October 13, 2019 7:05 PM

I think she was brilliant in it. Great cast. I've seen it a few times and that ending... when they're hauling her off to the bin and she is making those animal sounds? It always makes me cry.

by Anonymousreply 2October 13, 2019 7:08 PM

I loved this scene. She was hysterical and Leigh is absolutely remarkable. Brando hot as fuck with a tight, lean body.

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by Anonymousreply 3October 13, 2019 7:10 PM

I just re-read David Niven's "Missie" short story. It's been said that it's about Vivien.

by Anonymousreply 4October 13, 2019 7:12 PM

Brando was sexy until he opened his mouth. That high pitched nasal voice of his was a boner killer every time.

by Anonymousreply 5October 13, 2019 7:13 PM

British Vivien won two best actress Oscars, both for playing Southern belles, Scarlett O'Hara and Blanche DuBois.

by Anonymousreply 6October 13, 2019 7:17 PM

Yes, it was clear to me (from the movie) that Stanley raped Blanche. The story is complex because the Blanche character was insufferable and was a child molester.

I don't think the film's ending was realistic (Stella taking her child and leaving Stanley). The play's ending was more realistic (Stella staying with Stanley).

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by Anonymousreply 7October 13, 2019 7:21 PM

She was raped? 😳

I didn’t get that from the movie at all. Plus it’s been a while since I’ve seen the movie and I probably didn’t get (or understand) the context clues .

Maybe I should rewatch 🤔🤔

by Anonymousreply 8October 13, 2019 7:22 PM

Saw it with a friend, who didn't think Stanley raped Blanche until I pointed out that even his male *friends* thought he had. Oh, yeah. . . .

by Anonymousreply 9October 13, 2019 7:24 PM

I'm not that great at catching symbolism and understanding cryptic messages, but it was clear to me that Stanley raped Blanche (in the film).

by Anonymousreply 10October 13, 2019 7:29 PM

I thought it was obvious that she got raped. I guess he just wanted to break her and was very successful. Of course his wife had to stay with him. What was she going to do with a brand new baby? Sucked to be a woman back then.

by Anonymousreply 11October 13, 2019 7:35 PM

Bastardized Hollywood script and Leigh is only okay in delivering an interpretation that doesn't serve the play well at all.

Leigh arrives in such a broken emotional state that she has no place to go with it. She plays a neurotic twat who is so annoying she deserves what she gets.

Watch Ann-Margret if you want to understand Blanche. When she arrives, she is damaged from fighting so hard for Belle Rive and to take care of dying family, but she is still hanging on, if only barely. Abd then she is treated brutally by Stanley. It is his abuse that destroys her.

Ann-Margret's script conforms closely to the stage script. That's a huge plus. Beverly D'Angelo is a beautiful Stella. Marvin Hamlisch did the score. You can get it all for free on YouTube.

by Anonymousreply 12October 13, 2019 7:50 PM

Vivien Leigh had a hard time connecting with her co-stars and she didn’t get along with Elia Kazan while filming, due to his vision of how she should play Blanche vs her view of the character. She ended up playing it the way he told her, because he is the Director. But she didn’t like it.

by Anonymousreply 13October 13, 2019 7:54 PM

I saw the Ann-Margret version and I remember loving how her Blanche seemed a lot tougher than the other ones I saw. It made her descent into madness all the more harrowing once it starts, because you're rooting for her to hang on to reality. I remember Jessica Lange really telegraphing Blanche's madness from the first scene. You knew this woman had already lost her mind from her first entrance and that surprised me, because I normally love Lange.

by Anonymousreply 14October 13, 2019 7:56 PM

Lange was over the top in a bad way. Leigh in a fun way.

by Anonymousreply 15October 13, 2019 8:05 PM

Ann-Margret was far too sturdy to make a believable Blanche. She could have knocked out Stanley just by turning around too fast.

by Anonymousreply 16October 13, 2019 8:08 PM

I’ve never seen the Ann Margaret version, but I can see how it would be more interesting. If Blanche started out not completely broken, with some fight still left in her, that would be more 3-D in character.

by Anonymousreply 17October 13, 2019 8:12 PM

Or Blanche started out broken and completely goes over the edge by the end.

I prefer Leigh.

by Anonymousreply 18October 13, 2019 8:13 PM

I would have let Stanley beat my bussy

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by Anonymousreply 19October 13, 2019 8:13 PM

It's one of my favourites, I love the play and Tennesse's work in general.

Tennessee Williams was also an interesting person and a lot of his work is based on his own nature and nurture. Apparently, his mother and sister gave him a lot of his inspiration.

by Anonymousreply 20October 13, 2019 8:15 PM

Ann-Margret was interior to Leigh in every way, minus looks.

by Anonymousreply 21October 13, 2019 8:22 PM

Leigh's performance, for me, is flawless. She plays a woman who is playing a woman - her Blanche is full of airs and graces used as defenses, valiantly fighting to deflect the impact of that critical moment destined to drive her over the edge - it's always present on the screen from her first appearance. She has secrets to hide, and she works like hell to keep them hidden. Leigh's most powerful scene in the film is when she's with Karl Malden toward the film's end and he tries to fuck her, telling her "I don't wanna marry you anymore." Her dainty Southern Belle voice changes to a deep, plaintive, truthful yet courageous representation of her authentic self for the first time, nearing the end of the film. This once scene, subtle as it was, is the most impacting of the entire film because she finally becomes true.

That's my two cents, anyway.

by Anonymousreply 22October 13, 2019 8:47 PM

Would be interesting to hear someone from the U.S. south to chime in on Leigh's southern accent (voice). She's been criticized for her southern US accents in both "Streetcar" and "Gone with the Wind." I don't have a discerning ear for southern accents and did enjoy her performance.

by Anonymousreply 23October 13, 2019 8:57 PM

Wait. A. Minute.

Blanche was a child molester???

by Anonymousreply 24October 13, 2019 9:09 PM

Leigh's performance is so good that for years I had to gear up to see it. It's still the film performance that unnerves me the most. Brando's sexuality is the only thing he really offers. But Karl Malden is amazing. Is Elia Kazan ever really great with female characters- except for maybe Julie Harris?

by Anonymousreply 25October 13, 2019 9:09 PM

Julie Harris was miscast in East of Eden.

by Anonymousreply 26October 13, 2019 9:12 PM

[quote] Blanche was a child molester???

To elaborate, Blanche was a teacher who ended up having sex with one of her male students. Not sure the age of the student; this article says 17. Her having sex with her student (and being discovered) was the reason she had to leave her town and come live with Stella and Stanley.

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by Anonymousreply 27October 13, 2019 9:19 PM

I’ve heard 17 and I’ve heard 15.

by Anonymousreply 28October 13, 2019 9:22 PM

It's 17 in the film.

by Anonymousreply 29October 13, 2019 9:23 PM

Yes, Stanley raped Blanche. But it was so much more than a rape. It was more like the final battle in a long war.

by Anonymousreply 30October 13, 2019 9:23 PM

[quote]Would be interesting to hear someone from the U.S. south to chime in on Leigh's southern accent (voice). She's been criticized for her southern US accents in both "Streetcar" and "Gone with the Wind." I don't have a discerning ear for southern accents and did enjoy her performance.

She was a bit too over the top in Gone With The Wind. She pushes the accent a bit too much. There are areas where she should have "drawled" a bit more. In certain spots, her phrasing is British even though the vowel sounds are Southern.

If she were a genius actress, she would have found ways to incorporate both an Irish dialect and a Black dialect. Scarlett lived on a farm. She was surrounded by her parents and Mammy. Her speech would have had inflections of those speaking patterns. I don't remember any reference to her going to a finishing school, and even if she did, she seemed too headstrong to listen to a diction teacher.

by Anonymousreply 31October 13, 2019 11:16 PM

[quote]Apparently, his mother and sister gave him a lot of his inspiration.

The Glass Menagerie is totally his autobiography. What everyone misses is that its Laura's story that he is telling. I've not seen a production yet that realizes that.

One of my drama professors once told me that Tennessee Williams had a very black sense of humor. That when the people came to take Blanche away, that Williams would start laughing. He thought it was funny. I always found that interesting.

by Anonymousreply 32October 13, 2019 11:20 PM

[R32], there's a great story in Gore Vidal's PALIMPSEST in which Vidal relates a memorable conversation between Williams and Claire Bloom as the latter prepared for Blanche in London.

"The Bird [GV's nickname for TW] looked at her suspiciously; then he said, 'Do you have any questions about the play?' 'Yes.' Claire pulled herself together. 'What happens after the final curtain?' The Bird sat back in his chair, narrowed his eyes. 'No actress has ever asked me that question.' He shut his eyes, thought. 'She will enjoy her time in the bin. She will seduce one or two of the more comely young doctors. Then she will be let free to open an attractive boutique in the French Quarter?' 'She wins?' 'Oh, yes,' said the Bird. 'Blanche wins.'"

by Anonymousreply 33October 13, 2019 11:51 PM

Thanks r27 for clarifying that.

by Anonymousreply 34October 14, 2019 2:15 AM

R33 I always imagined a doctor fell in love with her,cured her,then married her after she is released. She ends her days on his family plantation,a beloved and charitable society matron.

by Anonymousreply 35October 14, 2019 2:50 AM

Best version.

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by Anonymousreply 36October 14, 2019 2:57 AM

It's interesting to note that Williams found some of the show funny. I saw that all black revival a few years ago and the show was getting laughs all throughout the night. I almost thought I was watching a sitcom. I never realized it could be interpreted as dark comedy by some audiences.

by Anonymousreply 37October 14, 2019 3:04 AM

If you read between the lines in the movie while Blanche is talking about her young husband who killed himself years ago you pick up that he was gay and found life insufferable back in the day. Very touching and sad.

by Anonymousreply 38October 14, 2019 3:09 AM

Quite, R38.

by Anonymousreply 39October 14, 2019 3:11 AM

I believe that Tennessee Williams at some level created the character of Blanche du Bois as a promiscuous drag queen. She certainly didn't act like a 'normal' woman and her attraction and interaction with Stanley/Brando was every gay man and certainly every drag queen's dream.

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by Anonymousreply 40October 14, 2019 3:16 AM

I always saw Blanche spending the rest of her days in the sanitarium, forever disconnected from reality. She would become that thing in southern families that people talk about in hushed tones. She was run out of Mississippi and there was no way her sister would ever have her back in her house. A life in a sanitarium living in a fantasy world is the only kind ending for Blanche.

by Anonymousreply 41October 14, 2019 3:20 AM

R40 Tennessee Williams suffered from depression and internalized homophobia back in the day and I think he infused some of his own inner being into the character of Blanche, a fragile person edging into madness while being exposed and somewhat attracted to the brutish, handsome Stanley/Brando male character.

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by Anonymousreply 42October 14, 2019 3:28 AM

I was young when I first saw the movie, and then I thought Brandon's Stanley was a primal force, the embodiment of male sexuality and sheer testosterone!

Now that I'm old, I see him as an old queen's fantasy of a blue-collar stud who the old queen would fuck anything that moves... which only works because the part was played by a very talented and charismatic actor.

by Anonymousreply 43October 14, 2019 5:35 AM

Fuck, BRANDO not Brandon!

I blame the autocorrect.

by Anonymousreply 44October 14, 2019 5:35 AM

"Blanche wins." Utter bullshit. Unless Gore Vidal was entirely making up the exchange, it was a stupid question from Claire Bloom and a reply from the playwright that is laced with a lot of shade..

Tennessee Williams' sister, Rose, was lobotomized in 1943, an operation authorized by their domineering mother. She never recovered from the surgery and spent the rest of her life institutionalized. "Streetcar" debuted on Broadway in 1947. By that time, it would have been very clear to Tennessee Williams what happens to a woman when she is hauled off to an institution. She is destroyed. Claire Bloom played Blanche in London in 1974. By that time, Rose had been institutionalized for more than 20 years. This was not secret information.

If Bloom actually asked that question of Tennessee Williams, she really had not done her homework about this play and its playwright. What was Tennessee Williams to say to his leading lady? "You stupid cunt, what the fuck do you think happens to a woman branded as insane and hauled off to a mental institution???"

The relentless modern world destroys everything that goes before it. That's the entire play. Two sisters raised to be ladies of means in the last gasp of Southern gentility, see everything wiped out by the changes that follow World War I and then the Great Depression. Stella can't face it and runs and runs to the city. Blanche tries to resist it, but change always wins. Despite their very different responses to the changing world around them, they both end up trapped in the same hot tenement apartment in a loud dirty city getting fucked by the same Polack. Stella accepts it and escapes a fast demise by staying with the man who raped her sister. Blanche's demise is fast and certain. She looks at the doctor who has come to take her away and says, "Whoever you are, I've always depended on the kindness of strangers." What's the point of that statement, if she's being hauled away to a place where she's going to find any kindness whatsoever? Williams only makes the statement to point out the absolute futility of it.

Williams' answer, as reported by Gore Vidal, drips with the contempt the silly question deserves.

by Anonymousreply 45October 14, 2019 2:16 PM

I agree with r41's interpretation. Blanche spends the rest of her days in a mental hospital pretending that the attendants are her servants and she's living in Belle Reve. Vidal's story was Tennessee Willaims totally throwing shade.

What I don't understand is the movie ending for Stella. She's horrified that her husband raped her sister and then called the looney bin on her. I get that she's just had a child and is a bit hesitant to raise a child around Stanley and his card buddies. But it sort of comes out of nowhere. Stella really doesn't have any options at the moment.

by Anonymousreply 46October 14, 2019 4:50 PM

Stella was dickmatized above all of her other issues. She stayed with Stanley cause she loved that big ole Polack dick ,more than she loved her crazy sister.I get it,having been dickmatized myself on occasion. Also,you have to remember the times.It just wasnty easy for a single woman to start over,especially with a baby. Marriage for many was indeed their best option.

by Anonymousreply 47October 14, 2019 5:03 PM

[quote] Stella was dickmatized above all of her other issues.

Someone is projecting.

by Anonymousreply 48October 14, 2019 5:05 PM

Also, remember the time this was written in. White women who were raped by white men, 'brought it on themselves'. The movie ending is just the Hayes Code nice and pretty version of events, where the bad guy had to always pay. In real life, Stella would have blamed Blanche for all of it and went right back to Stanley, after some sweet talk and seduction, and it would have been swept under the rug and never spoke of again, except in hushed tones.

by Anonymousreply 49October 14, 2019 5:43 PM

[quote] The relentless modern world destroys everything that goes before it. That's the entire play.

I disagree that this was the play in a nutshell. (I agree that there was no happy ending for Blanche after she got hauled away to an institution, though.) IMO, Tennessee Williams was all about the miseries of people's personal lives, inside their homes, inside their families, inside their minds.

by Anonymousreply 50October 14, 2019 6:41 PM

[quote] In real life, Stella would have blamed Blanche for all of it and went right back to Stanley, after some sweet talk and seduction, and it would have been swept under the rug and never spoke of again, except in hushed tones.

Until the baby grew up and everyone realized that it had the same mental insanity gene that Blanche had. But by that time, it would have been the 1960s and everyone was seeing a shrink, so the grown up child wouldn't have been considered odd.

by Anonymousreply 51October 14, 2019 6:45 PM

Let's put the blame where the blame deserves to be put.

Before Blanche even shows up, Stanley comes home from a hard day's work of physical labor. It is hot. New Orleans hot. And all Stella can put on the table is a "cold salad." What kind of wife is that?

by Anonymousreply 52October 14, 2019 6:48 PM

R50, Blanche and Stella represent everything associated with the old refined social order.

Stanley is every coarse and violent aspect of the new order.

Stanley brutalizes them both. Stanley wins.

by Anonymousreply 53October 14, 2019 6:56 PM

Coarseness and violence are not "new order"; there was coarseness and violence in the Bible. Cain and Abel.

by Anonymousreply 54October 14, 2019 7:01 PM

[quote]Stanley brutalizes them both. Stanley wins.

Not according to Gore Vidal. It seems like there was a sequel in the works titled A Streetcar Named Revenge. Blanche steals morphine from the hospital and makes her escape. She heads straight to Stella and Stanley's apartment, hell bent on helping Stanley overdose.

by Anonymousreply 55October 14, 2019 7:02 PM

R5, Yes. Not only was Brando's voice high-pitched and nasally, but he was also mumbling words and not clearly enunciating.

by Anonymousreply 56October 14, 2019 7:23 PM

R13 Of course, Vivien had a hard time connecting with her co-stars when making the film.

She played it on stage in 49 and she had to wear stage make-up to make her look older than she was. The stage make-up is very apparent on screen version and those grey splurged lines under her eyes looks so fake.

The other problem was that she was a well-bred woman raised in the British Empire and she was being pushed around by Elias Kazantzoglou, a punchy, short, farting, foul-mouthed man who was more interested in pushing the career of his pretty Marlon.

———— R33 I advise you to distrust EVERYTHING uttered by vain-queen fantasist, the dead Gore Vidal.

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by Anonymousreply 57October 15, 2019 3:50 AM

And let's be frank, Warner Bros was a low rent studio suitable for gangster movie and Bette Davis trash.

by Anonymousreply 58October 15, 2019 3:55 AM

R54 There may have been violence and murder in the Bible but not much coarseness or excrement.

by Anonymousreply 59October 15, 2019 5:38 AM

In the play, Stella stays with Stanley, still dickmatized. In the movie she leaves at the end, or tries to, even though she has no place to go and nobody to take her in. Neither ending is believable.

Okay, I can certainly believe that Tennessee Williams (or the average Datalounger) would have happily stayed with a crude big-dicked stud who'd raped his sister, but it's not really believable that a gently raised young woman would do the same thing. And of course it's not believable that Stella would take the baby and go away without having any place to go, either. What *should* have happened is that Stella tried to leave after realizing her husband was a monster, realized she had no refuge, and come back. And the story would end with Blanche trapped in an asylum and Stella trapped in her marriage, both having totally failed to cope with the world outside Belle Reve.

by Anonymousreply 60October 15, 2019 6:41 AM

STEEEELLLLLLLLAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!

by Anonymousreply 61October 15, 2019 8:08 AM

Did any of DL's eldergays see Jessica Tandy play Blanche in the original Broadway production of the play? How was she?

by Anonymousreply 62October 15, 2019 8:40 AM

Jessica was 39 when she played Blanche. That's 4 years older than Vivien. But I reckon Blanche was much older than 39.

by Anonymousreply 63October 15, 2019 9:32 AM

You're thinking in contemporary terms, no doubt.

by Anonymousreply 64October 15, 2019 9:34 AM

I hope that's a lesson the Dems consider, R53.

by Anonymousreply 65October 15, 2019 10:01 AM

How old is Blanche?

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by Anonymousreply 66October 15, 2019 10:59 AM

c. 29.

by Anonymousreply 67October 15, 2019 11:02 AM

Wiki says Blanche is an aging Southern belle!

by Anonymousreply 68October 15, 2019 11:12 AM

R12 Oh c'mon, Leigh's performance is one of the best captured on film. I like the Ann-Magaret version and the Jessica Lange version too.

But Vivien (and others in the cast) were incredible, indelible, and eternal.

by Anonymousreply 69October 15, 2019 11:23 AM

Stella is described as "abouy twenty-five " Blanche is described as "about five years older than Stella." Stanley and Mitch are described as "about twenty-eight or thirty years old."

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by Anonymousreply 70October 15, 2019 11:23 AM

Were any New Orleans gays choking on Stanley’s fat sweaty dick on his way home after work?

by Anonymousreply 71October 15, 2019 11:34 AM

Never have I heard of a so called straight director obsessed with a male actor the way Kazan was with Brandon. Either Marlon was everything he wish he had been as an actor or he was in love with the guy.

by Anonymousreply 72October 15, 2019 11:52 AM

" I don't remember any reference to her going to a finishing school, and even if she did, she seemed too headstrong to listen to a diction teacher."

R31 - Scarlet went to Fayetteville Female Academy per the book by Margaret Mitchell.

by Anonymousreply 73October 15, 2019 12:13 PM

Elias Kazantzoglou, a punchy, short and foul was obsessed with pretty-boys Marlon, Jimmy and Warren.

He liked to see them cry on the big screen

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by Anonymousreply 74October 15, 2019 12:19 PM

On the set

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by Anonymousreply 75October 15, 2019 12:22 PM

Or maybe he just knew what sells, dear.

by Anonymousreply 76October 15, 2019 12:22 PM

Or maybe he just knew what sells, dear.

by Anonymousreply 77October 15, 2019 12:22 PM

No dear honey pie honey lamb sugar he was obsessed in a way that went beyond mercenary concerns.

by Anonymousreply 78October 15, 2019 12:32 PM

I have to take my shirt off when I'm directing you, Jimmy.

We can go riding on my scooter, Jimmy, and you can touch my naked chest, Jimmy.

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by Anonymousreply 79October 15, 2019 12:43 PM

[quote]Okay, I can certainly believe that Tennessee Williams (or the average Datalounger) would have happily stayed with a crude big-dicked stud who'd raped his sister, but it's not really believable that a gently raised young woman would do the same thing.

The play was written in 1947. Of course she stayed with him. You said it in your sentence, a gently raised young woman would have most definitely stayed with her husband to avoid scandal and divorce was frowned upon back then (regardless of your social standing), plus she had a new baby and no means to support herself. You are using cultural norms as they exist today, to explain something that was written 70 years ago.

by Anonymousreply 80October 15, 2019 3:12 PM

Blanche should be in her thirties. Young enough to look beautiful in dim light, young enough to attract a straight man, young enough to have a hormonally charges and fertile sister.

She really shouldn't be played by an actress in her forties or fifties.

by Anonymousreply 81October 15, 2019 6:46 PM

Wow! I had no idea how young Blanche was actually supposed to be. It seems like she's always played by women in their 40s or 50s. I guess people did age differently back then, so people in their 30's might have looked more like people in their 40's or 50's do these days.

It's so sad for someone to think they're over the hill by 30 and have to rely on trick lighting to keep men around. It makes much more sense for a woman of 50 or so.

by Anonymousreply 82October 15, 2019 7:00 PM

[quote] Okay, I can certainly believe that Tennessee Williams (or the average Datalounger) would have happily stayed with a crude big-dicked stud who'd raped his sister, but it's not really believable that a gently raised young woman would do the same thing.

I don't think that Stella was "gently raised."

Even today, women stay with an abusive man. Yes, a woman who has her own wealth would more easily walk away.

Stanley gets to tell his side of the story, too. (Your nymphomaniac sister, Blanche, wanted me.) It's plausible that a Stella-type would choose to believe Stanley's version over Blanche's.

by Anonymousreply 83October 15, 2019 7:07 PM

"It's so sad for someone to think they're over the hill by 30..."

Honey, that's still true for gay men, insta-hos, and husband-hunting straight women.

by Anonymousreply 84October 15, 2019 7:07 PM

[Quote]Blanche should be in her thirties. Young enough to look beautiful in dim light, young enough to attract a straight man, young enough to have a hormonally charges and fertile sister. She really shouldn't be played by an actress in her forties or fifties.

So you're saying that the role is meant for DL's favorite twentysomething, fresh-faced ingenue, Catherine Zeta Jones?

by Anonymousreply 85October 15, 2019 7:16 PM

Aubrey O'Day IS Blanche DuBois!

by Anonymousreply 86October 15, 2019 7:21 PM

[quote]I believe that Tennessee Williams at some level created the character of Blanche du Bois as a promiscuous drag queen. She certainly didn't act like a 'normal' woman and her attraction and interaction with Stanley/Brando was every gay man and certainly every drag queen's dream.

The other way around, dear. The drag queens were basing themselves on Blanche.

by Anonymousreply 87October 15, 2019 8:04 PM

Quite a lot of Williams's female characters were clearly gay men in disguise. Karen Stone of "The Roman Spring of Mrs. Stone" was the most obvious, but Blande DuBois is a bit of an old queen in a frock, too.

It was the only way Williams could write about gay men, or himself, back in the early and middle 20th century.

by Anonymousreply 88October 15, 2019 8:09 PM

[quote]Quite a lot of Williams's female characters were clearly gay men in disguise.

Amanda Wingfield is 80% of the gay men on DL.

by Anonymousreply 89October 15, 2019 8:32 PM

[quote]I believe that Tennessee Williams at some level created the character of Blanche du Bois as a promiscuous drag queen. She certainly didn't act like a 'normal' woman and her attraction and interaction with Stanley/Brando was every gay man and certainly every drag queen's dream.

So are you saying that there weren't sexually promiscuous women or women who acted out in sexually inappropriate ways? I think a lot of people are misguided about women based on old TV shows and Hayes Code era movies and probably the lies their grandmothers told them. There were women back then who loved and enjoyed sex and who had lots of it, women who had trauma (it wasn't called that back then) who acted out inappropriately related to sex.

Blanche found out that her husband was a gay man, which in turn caused her to question her youth, her beauty, and her sex appeal and she tried to recapture what she thought she had lost, via inappropriate sexual relationships with teenagers. Maybe she thought teenage cum had restorative powers, but in all seriousness she really was trying to recreate her own youth before things went bad.

Now compare Blanche to Maggie the Cat. Maggie, too, was dealing with a gay husband, but she didn't end up in the sanitarium.

by Anonymousreply 90October 15, 2019 8:33 PM

Of course you never hear about grown women having sex with teenage boys. It doesn't happen.

by Anonymousreply 91October 15, 2019 8:39 PM

EK was not obsessed with any of them, especially James Dean, who he could not stand in the slightest. He also disliked Warren Beatty, and didn’t like Directing him. He admitted he found Beatty to be a wonderful actor, but very full of himself and “snotty”. When asked about Beatty he said the only word he can use to describe Beatty that really fit was “snotty”.

He felt Dean was absolutely unhinged and a terrible actor, but he said Dean had “IT”. He had that “IT” that most don’t have, so he cast him in East of Eden. Other than that, he couldn’t stand working with him, or Dean as a person in general as well as him as an actor.

He wasn’t obsessed with Brando, he just knew he had “IT” and he had talent, so he knew he had a star on his hands and a CASH COW for himself.

Brando put people’s asses in theater seats.

by Anonymousreply 92October 15, 2019 8:41 PM

Kazan has said that he didn’t think Leigh was a great talent. He was just pissed because she probably challenged him. I’ve seen the Ann Margret and Jessica Lange versions, but the Leigh version is the one I remember. Brando and the cast. Perfection. Only on of two films to win three acting Oscars.

by Anonymousreply 93October 15, 2019 8:42 PM

I think a few of Williams' female characters could be considered drag queens or gay men in disguise, but Amanda is definitely more of a take on a gay man's mother. It always seemed implied to me that when Tom would "go out" at night, he was probably cruising for cock somewhere.

by Anonymousreply 94October 15, 2019 9:01 PM

Kazan worked with a number of actors who put asses in seats. He was considered one of the top directors not only because he was good but because his movies were popular. When he writes about Brando it is with a longing that he reserves for nobody else in his book. Not for his wife Molly nor for any other actress. There is a tone of unrequited love about it. I have never read another straight director's reminiscences with that kind of idolizing of a male actor. If he was just concerned about selling tickets he could have made movies starring Lana Turner and John Wayne.

by Anonymousreply 95October 15, 2019 9:03 PM

Aw, come on, R83. What do you think Belle Rive was? A truck stop?

by Anonymousreply 96October 15, 2019 9:09 PM

R95 you’re exaggerating. I’ve read what he wrote about Brando, Dean etc. and there was no longing. He clearly liked him and thought highly of him as a person and talent, nothing more

by Anonymousreply 97October 15, 2019 9:11 PM

I thought the actors were wonderful but the film version of "Streetcar" was disappointingly watered down. The word "goddamn (Stanley, in the play, says "Goddamn, it's hot in here with the steam from the bathroom")" can't be uttered. Blanche has "meetings" with strangers instead of "intimacies" with strangers. Her husband's closeted homosexuality is downplayed so much that it makes him appear just kind of sensitive and weak. And that ending was incredibly stupid. So Stella is leaving Stanley for good? Where would she go, and with a baby to support? How would she live? One of the main themes of the play was how much Stella was devoted to Stanley. His sexual hold on her is invincible. She would NEVER leave him.

In all film adaptations of Streetcar, it always appears that Blanche is at least in her late thirties; frequently the actress playing her looks older than that. But according to the play, Blanche is "about five years older" than Stella, which would make her only thirty years old. Stella is twenty-five; Stanley and Mitch are "about 28 or 30 years old." Yes, Blanche is only about 30 but from the way she talks you would think she's over the hill. Maybe thirty was considered over the hill in those days. Anyway, Vivien Leigh looked much older than that. She really did look aged and shopworn.

by Anonymousreply 98October 15, 2019 9:17 PM

If you were 30 and unmarried you were an old maid so yes a 30 year old if she were a woman was over the hill. Different rules applied to men.

by Anonymousreply 99October 15, 2019 9:26 PM

Yes, I agree, R98, Vivien did look 'aged and shopworn' as Blanche.

Kazan made her look like a caricature with bad stage make-up under her eyes and a bad wig,

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by Anonymousreply 100October 15, 2019 9:34 PM

There was no bigger Tennesse William's gay man in disguise than Tallulah Bankhead as Sissy Goforth in "The Milk Train Doesn't Stop Here Anymore." The Alabama Foghorn sounded like a man in drag, and the Goforth character, ensconced in her Italian villa, yearning for one last young lover before she shuffles off this mortal coil sounds like many of the eldergays I've encountered in Palm Springs.

by Anonymousreply 101October 15, 2019 9:42 PM

I’m not gonna lie, I’ve been dickmatized myself, in the past. Ugh. He had me wrapped around his pinky.

by Anonymousreply 102October 15, 2019 9:45 PM

I can't believe some man named a street in the 9th Ward of New Orleans as 'Desire Street'.

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by Anonymousreply 103October 15, 2019 9:48 PM

I saw an extended version of Streetcar once. A lot of Kim Hunter's scenes were deleted. Stella was totally dickmatized.

by Anonymousreply 104October 15, 2019 9:50 PM

Was there doubt Stella was dickmatized? Stanley smacked the shit out of her and she ended up wanting to fuck him more than ever after he screamed her name non stop.

by Anonymousreply 105October 15, 2019 9:51 PM

I thought Desire was an actual street in New Orleans and there was a streetcar that had Desire on it as the destination. That Williams was not making it up but using an existing banal fact as a metaphor. My father had a picture of it from when he was in the army in the early 50s. I doubt this would have been named so soon after the film was a hit.

by Anonymousreply 106October 15, 2019 10:00 PM

All jokes aside, Brando was at his peak of beauty in this. Absolutely beautiful.

I love when Blanche meets Stanley

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by Anonymousreply 107October 15, 2019 10:08 PM

While rewatching the scene in r107 I can’t help but wonder why Stanley wears a jacket out in scorching New Orleans heat? Was it improper for someone to walk around in just a T-shirt?

by Anonymousreply 108October 15, 2019 10:11 PM

It's a bowling jacket, no?

by Anonymousreply 109October 15, 2019 10:13 PM

Marge hit notes of pathos that Leigh could only dream of.

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by Anonymousreply 110October 15, 2019 10:18 PM

Jessica Tandy has an almost jolly hockey sticks quality in this radio adaptation.

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by Anonymousreply 111October 15, 2019 10:21 PM

^ Jessica is 'pearls' and Stanley is 'swine'.

by Anonymousreply 112October 15, 2019 11:02 PM

An enormous problem with the film is that Vivien Leigh is 11 years older than Marlon Brando. And looks every day of it. Especially with the make-up and hair design used in the film for Blanche which makes that problem worse, not better.

If you fiddle with the ages of the characters in a serious play, that often changes the play greatly.

by Anonymousreply 113October 15, 2019 11:16 PM

How do you feel about the age of the original Tom in "The Glass Menagerie"?

by Anonymousreply 114October 15, 2019 11:20 PM

[quote]How do you feel about the age of the original Tom in "The Glass Menagerie"?

In the original Broadway cast, the actor was way too old. Tom talks about joining the Merchant Marine. They're not going to take some overweight 45 year old. Tom has to be early 20s. And Amanda should really only be mid-40s. We should believe that she had Laura (who is two years older) and Tom when she was 16-18 years old. When played that way, it adds to Amanda's desperation.

by Anonymousreply 115October 16, 2019 12:30 AM

The director Elia Kazan and Tennessee Williams thought that Brando’s performance onstage overshadowed the original Blanche, Jessica Tandy. The film corrected that imbalance by placing the dramatic focus on Leigh.

by Anonymousreply 116October 16, 2019 12:35 AM

[quote]Brando’s performance onstage overshadowed the original Blanche, Jessica Tandy.

Well, dear, it's a bit difficult to shine when some half-wit brute is screaming "Stella!!"

Hume, bring me my mink. This interview is over.

by Anonymousreply 117October 16, 2019 12:38 AM

Aunt Viv and Brando MADE that movie. Marlon was the heart, but Vivian was the soul. No one can hold a candle to Queen Leigh

by Anonymousreply 118October 16, 2019 1:03 AM

In the late 69s, Veronica Lake toured the UK as Blanche. Her Stanley was Ty Hardin. Oh, how I wish I'd seen that .

by Anonymousreply 119October 16, 2019 1:16 AM

The original cast of "The Glass Menagerie" that played Tom and Laura and the Gentleman Caller looked much older than the characters they were playing. The two guys playing Tom and the Gentleman Caller looked like middle-age men, and they were supposed to be 21 and 23 years old. I saw the tv production that starred Sam Waterston and Joanna Miles as Tom and Laura; they looked to be at least in their mid-thirties. For God's sake those characters are supposed to be YOUNG.

by Anonymousreply 120October 16, 2019 3:00 AM

R71 , It's a little known fact , that was removed from the play and movie . Stanley had a part time job turning tricks at The Corner Pocket. He occasionally picked Up an extra shift bartending at THE PHOENIX, conveniently located on Elysian Fields .

by Anonymousreply 121October 16, 2019 3:03 AM

I always assumed Blanche was a decade older ,I was surprised to learn she was supposed to be 30 ! We always talk about her sex escapades,but rarely mention she was also a raging alcoholic.

by Anonymousreply 122October 16, 2019 3:09 AM

I always wondered exactly what happened to Belle Reve. Obviously the family home was lost but what exactly happened to it? When Stanley says to Blanche "so it was lost on a mortgage" Blanche vaguely replies "That must have been what happened." Could nothing have been done to save it? It's all very mysterious.

by Anonymousreply 123October 16, 2019 3:18 AM

I love the expression on Blanche's face after Stanley complains about the steam from the bathroom (Blanches soaks in a hot tub even during the hottest weather). Her eyes roll up in her head and she howls "I said I was sorry three times!" It seemed like Leigh's distress was true impending madness; it looked REAL.

by Anonymousreply 124October 16, 2019 3:29 AM

R123, it is not at all mysterious. Read the play. Blanche explains it all to Stella in considerable detail. Blanche and Belle Rive were no match for Ambler and Ambler.

by Anonymousreply 125October 16, 2019 3:48 AM

I can't believe Blanche was 30!

Scarlet was 30 at the end of 'Gone With The Wind'. And that was ten years ago!

by Anonymousreply 126October 16, 2019 4:01 AM

[quote] a gently raised young woman would have most definitely stayed with her husband to avoid scandal and divorce was frowned upon back then (regardless of your social standing), plus she had a new baby and no means to support herself.

First of all, the moment Stella married Stanley she didn't have to worry about scandal and social standing, because she had ruined all that. Also, I often thought that about divorce. But, you have to remember that things aren't always as history books would tell us. I didn't realize, until I did genealogical research, that divorce, while not common, was also not entirely rare. I especially thought it would be rare in my family, as we all come from South Carolina, which did not legalize divorce until 1949. However, I uncovered one female ancestor, who much like Stella and Blanche, was raised as part of the impoverished gentry, but that didn't stop her from having a minimum of five marriages. Whenever she tired of a husband she would simply move across the border to Georgia or another state and get divorced, and then go through the whole thing again, in the 1910s and 20s. And she wasn't the only one. Others, more commonly, just separated but remained married. If Stella wanted to leave Stanley, she most certainly could.

We tend to look back at women, gays, blacks, etc... and rob the individuals of their strength and dignity. While it is true that as groups they were worse off and lacked the civil rights, many take for granted today. Individuals cannot be reduced to a stereotype. Many found ways to be strong, independent, and dignified, regardless of the times in which they lived.

by Anonymousreply 127October 16, 2019 4:12 AM

R57 Leigh was nowhere near 49 when she played Blanche. She died in 1967 at the age of 53.

I just watched the Ann Margaret version. There are merits to both Vivien Leigh and Ann. The scene where Blanche seduces the paperboy goes to Ann Margaret. Blanche has been whoring around for years at that point. Margaret makes that show. Leigh is just kinda pathetic (which is also valid, but I liked the other way.)

For those who've only seen the movie, in the play (and subsequent filmed for TV versions) Blanche states explicitly that she found her husband in bed with an "older man." The three of them go to the casino, pretending nothing happened. She gets drunk and tells him how disgusting he is, and bam he kills himself.

There's no comparison with Treat Williams and Brando. Brando is pure sex. Totally believable that Blanche's sister was sexually obsessed with him. Not that Williams was bad. There was just never a role as suited to an actor as Stanley and Brando. How the hell did John C. Reilly play that part?

by Anonymousreply 128October 16, 2019 5:07 AM

It's Ann-Margret. Double-barrelled. Margret is not her surname.

by Anonymousreply 129October 16, 2019 5:15 AM

R129 noted.

by Anonymousreply 130October 16, 2019 5:32 AM

" If Stella wanted to leave Stanley, she most certainly could. "

We're not saying that Stella couldn't leave Stanley because divorce wasn't legal or socially acceptable, we're saying that she couldn't afford to leave him! She had no family to go to, no job, no money of her own, no skills, no new man in the wings, and a baby to support. And as Stanley pointed out, any property she had would legally belong to him, including their marital bank accounts. And it's not like Stanley would meekly pay alimony, Stella would have shit nothing to live on if she walked out, then or later.

So if she left, it was to sleep on the couch of some friend or neighbor and hope to fuck she could get a job and a room before they threw her out. No, if Stella left Stanley her future was even more frightening than if she stayed.

by Anonymousreply 131October 16, 2019 6:05 AM

Those who can't believe Blanche was considered over the hill at 30 have forgotten, or never known, how young people were when they married before the Pill and feminism.

Scarlett O'Hara was 16 when she married Charles Hamilton, and although family suggested he wasn't right for her, nobody suggested she wait because she was too young. Right up to the early 1970s it was very usual for a woman to marry between 18 and 23, and to have more than one child by 25. As late as the 1960s very few women went on to tertiary education. Occupations like nursing, which are now degreed, were learned on the job. So unless they were training to be teachers, most women were in the workforce by 18 - many by 16.

If your sole serious occupation was getting a husband, you'd been out of school since 16 and you hadn't managed it by 30, then you WERE over the hill. You might even have looked like a 30-year old looks now, but the women who were nabbing the men were all under 23, so what chance did you have? (Also, most embarrassing that your five-years-younger sister had married before you. That alone was an arrow pointing at you that said "Loser".)

by Anonymousreply 132October 16, 2019 1:13 PM

You also need to figure in the fact that those women didn't eat properly, weren't going to the gym, and were't taking care of their skin. These days a 30 year old is considered young. Back then, a 30 year old had lived some life.

by Anonymousreply 133October 16, 2019 1:33 PM

These days a 30 year old desperately wants to be considered young. So does a 70 year old. This is how we get plastic surgery nightmares like Joan Van Ark.

In 1947, a 30 year old wanted to be considered sophisticated. A mature woman might be cagey about her actual age, but she would still make efforts to appear a sophisticated adult.

Why we have begun to worship youth and pursue immaturity is a mystery, but the answer cannot be to our society's credit.

by Anonymousreply 134October 16, 2019 2:19 PM

The drag queen make up many young women sport suggests that it's not as clear cut as you suggest.

by Anonymousreply 135October 16, 2019 2:21 PM

[quote]How the hell did John C. Reilly play that part?

Miscast.

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by Anonymousreply 136October 16, 2019 2:49 PM

John C. Reilly is a great actor, but should never have been allowed to touch Stanley with a ten foot pole. I imagine every single review must have commented on how unattractive he is. Which couldn't have been easy for him.

by Anonymousreply 137October 16, 2019 3:34 PM

Blanche wasn't a woman who'd failed to nab a husband by 30, she was a widow!

And then and now, a widow in her 30s who was living with relatives because she had no place else to go would be lucky to interest an unattractive dullard like Mitch.

by Anonymousreply 138October 16, 2019 5:52 PM

Blanche was awesome

by Anonymousreply 139October 16, 2019 6:27 PM

John C. Reilly was a Mitch, not a Stanley

by Anonymousreply 140October 16, 2019 6:32 PM

Who played Stanley R140?

by Anonymousreply 141October 16, 2019 7:08 PM

[quote]Who played Stanley [R140]?

I mean he should have been playing Mitch INSTEAD OF Stanley.

by Anonymousreply 142October 16, 2019 8:24 PM

"Blanche explains it all to Stella in considerable detail."

Uh, no. She just starts raving about all the deaths in the family and how much it cost and how when it came to Belle Reve she "fought for it, bled for it, almost died for it!" She doesn't go into any detail at all about what happened to the family home. Was it sold at auction? Does the bank have possession of it? What happened to all the family heirlooms that must have been in it? It's left unexplained and Stella doesn't much care to out. Stanley is very interested in finding out, but all Stella says is that "it had to be sacrificed, or something."

by Anonymousreply 143October 16, 2019 8:54 PM

Yeah, John C. Reilly should have been cast as Mitch, not Stanley. He has the right tinge of hangog whiner under the bluster that would totally work for the role, and which would be absolutely deadly when trying to play Stanley.

As for Belle Reve, I assume it went for a unpaid mortgage, taxes, and/or other debts. Blanche speaks about elderly relatives dying and draining the family finances, I assume there were medical bills in addition to upkeep, and maintaining the lifestyle the DuBois family felt entitled to far too long. No need to go into details, it's obvious the mansion went because of debt, entitlement, foolishness, and the refusal to deal with the real world that are all over Blanche.

by Anonymousreply 144October 16, 2019 9:04 PM

Blanche & Stella were raised in an era in which women were trained from early childhood that females can't survive without "male protection". The DuBois sisters had some very ineffectual protectors... the father & other male relatives left his wife & daughters with crushing debts, Blanche marries a gay man who couldn't cope with life & Stella marries a rapist, not being self-sufficient was their downfall.

by Anonymousreply 145October 16, 2019 10:02 PM

The Du Bois girls relied on the kindness of strangers.

They'd do OK with 21st Century welfare.

They'd do better in Britain which is the most comfortable of Welfare States.

by Anonymousreply 146October 16, 2019 10:18 PM

[quote]Stella marries a rapist

Stella didn't marry a rapist. She married a complex man who was brutish and common and believed that his power was derived from his strength, what he could own, and what was between his legs. Stella loved him for who he was, flaws and all.

Enter Blanche who lived in his house, ate his food, made his wife feel bad about the life she'd chosen, and treated him like dog shit. The fact that he didn't kick her ass out earlier was because he loved Stella. But it got to a point where he had to put her in her place, and he did that by first destroying the fantasy and then by showing her that he was stronger and more powerful through the rape.

In my mind, they were two sexually charged people who could not have avoided that particular ending. Some say that Stanley destroyed Blanche because if he hadn't she would have most definitely destroyed him. But they sort of destroyed each other. Stanley drove Blanche insane and Blanche turned Stanley into a monster. There were no winners here.

by Anonymousreply 147October 16, 2019 11:16 PM

Where did Stanley ever meet Stella? And didn't he know that she was a higher class than he was? I would imagine that Stella was raised with the same airs that Blanche was. How did Stella rid herself of hers?

Belle Reve might not have been theirs outright to own. Their daddy or granddaddy may have stipulated in the will that it pass down to a male heir, in the same vein as Downton Abbey. So Blanche may have been "poor relations" in her own home. This theme is also brought out in Crimes of the Heart when the cousin, Chick, reminds the MacGrath sisters that "this is my granddaddy's house."

Blanche may also have run up considerable debt being frivolous. She's a drinker and may have spent it all on drink.

by Anonymousreply 148October 16, 2019 11:20 PM

Fuck Stella! Lucky bitch was getting that hot, fat, thick juicy Pollock Cock.

by Anonymousreply 149October 16, 2019 11:21 PM

Blanche wanted to fuck her brother in law. You could see the attraction to him.

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by Anonymousreply 150October 16, 2019 11:22 PM

[quote]Blanche wanted to fuck her brother in law. You could see the attraction to him.

She should have just settled for Mitch.

That's the TRUE moral of this play. Gay men always try to box above their punching weight. You girls want a Stanley, but all you're really good for is a Mitch.

by Anonymousreply 151October 16, 2019 11:24 PM

Most of DL would cause scandal in the town and family, when everyone finds out they seduced their own sisters smoking hot husband.

by Anonymousreply 152October 16, 2019 11:25 PM

I just don't know what director or producer would allow Reilly to be cast. He's ALL WRONG. Look, I wouldn't cast myself either. Stella has to be completely dickmatized. There are few men on earth with the ability to dickmatize, and Reilly, while a talent, ain't one of 'em.

by Anonymousreply 153October 16, 2019 11:30 PM

They should have cast me, dammit! I always have the ladies dickmatized and cumming for more! ;)

by Anonymousreply 154October 16, 2019 11:33 PM

[quote]I just don't know what director or producer would allow Reilly to be cast. He's ALL WRONG. Look, I wouldn't cast myself either. Stella has to be completely dickmatized. There are few men on earth with the ability to dickmatize, and Reilly, while a talent, ain't one of 'em.

Especially because you know that Natasha Richardson probably had casting approval. Maybe Liam Neeson also had casting approval and he wouldn't approve of any hunk man raping his wife.

by Anonymousreply 155October 16, 2019 11:39 PM

Richardson probably agreed because she thought she could own the production in the way Brando apparently owned the original.

by Anonymousreply 156October 16, 2019 11:41 PM

2020 Remake

Emma Stone as Blanche

Channing Tatum as Stanley

Emma Watson as Stella

Andrew Garfield as Mitch

by Anonymousreply 157October 16, 2019 11:45 PM

R157 wow. What an awful movie that would be. Full of terrible acting.

by Anonymousreply 158October 16, 2019 11:46 PM

2020 version would be a white man with a woman of color. Or a white man with a fatty white wife and the in law hot.

by Anonymousreply 159October 16, 2019 11:47 PM

Shia LaBoeuf - Stanley

Shia LaBoeuf's gf - Stella

Kiki Dunst - Blanche

Paul Dano - Mitch

by Anonymousreply 160October 16, 2019 11:49 PM

The wrestling champ of my high school was so much like Stanley. Polish, built, hot. Could be anyone in a fight. Years after we graduated, I shared a house with him when he got divorced, and while we never had sex, I got completely dickmatized because he ran around the house naked constantly. And pissed with the bathroom door wide open. Massive dick. Looked like a fat red bell hammer.

by Anonymousreply 161October 16, 2019 11:52 PM

[Quote] Could be anyone in a fight.

Krystle AND Alexis?!

by Anonymousreply 162October 16, 2019 11:54 PM

haha typo. BEAT.

by Anonymousreply 163October 16, 2019 11:58 PM

"Where did Stanley ever meet Stella? And didn't he know that she was a higher class than he was?"

Supposedly when she met him he was in uniform. Maybe she met him at a bar or at a party. And he knew she gave from a different class than he did. He said "When we first met, me and you, you thought I was common. How right you was, baby. I was common as dirt. You showed me the snapshot of the place with the columns. I pulled you down off them columns and how you loved it, having them colored lights going! And wasn't we happy together, wasn't it all ok till she showed here?"

by Anonymousreply 164October 17, 2019 12:33 AM

R151 just read us for filth ! ! Well said ,Darling .

by Anonymousreply 165October 17, 2019 1:03 AM

[quote]How the hell did John C. Reilly play that part?

When I first read that I thought you had said Charles Nelson Reilly. Now I would have paid some serious money to have seen that! I'm envisioning a dinner theater production with Charles Nelson Reilly as Stanley, Audra Lindley as Blanche, and Bonnie Franklin as Stella.

by Anonymousreply 166October 17, 2019 1:12 AM

Louis B Mayer the head of MGM went to see the play. His daughter Irene Selznick produced it. After seeing it he told her pretty much that he was so glad that horrible woman didn't break up the family.

I guess he considered it a happy ending.

by Anonymousreply 167October 17, 2019 5:09 AM

"Blanche wanted to fuck her brother in law. You could see the attraction to him."

DL, this is a famous case where "this thread is everything without photos". You could see the attraction between a blind raccoon and Marlon Brando, and nobody needs pix to demonstrate this.

As for what happened to Belle Rive, my strong guess is that it's Tennessee who couldn't be bothered fleshing out the economics of the situation. I can see him saying, "Oh, I don't know, she just loses it, OK?"

by Anonymousreply 168October 17, 2019 5:23 AM

"But they sort of destroyed each other. Stanley drove Blanche insane and Blanche turned Stanley into a monster. "

No. Stanley destroyed Blanche, Blanche just irritated Stanley. As a houseguest she was incredibly annoying, but she did not and could not do him any real harm. He did her real harm, though.

by Anonymousreply 169October 17, 2019 9:10 AM

[quote]she did not and could not do him any real harm

R169 you clearly were taken in by Blanche's charms. That woman was lethal and was taking Stanley apart bit by bit until he stopped it.

by Anonymousreply 170October 17, 2019 12:53 PM

No, R170. Stanley is an animal. He lacks civility. He lacks conscience. He has nothing, so he can lose nothing.

There are lots of ways to "stop" any ill effect Blanche was causing Stanley, if any at all. She really only pissed him off. She could take nothing from him as he had nothing to lose. It all could have been handled humanely, but 'humane' is beyond Stanley's grasp.

When a dog bites your face off, it later has no remorse. It loses nothing in the attack because it does not have anything to lose by doing what dogs do and biting someone. Blanche goes out the door and Stanley doesn't care about anything but having her gone. Stella hates him for it, but that's easily shrugged off. From Stanley's perspective, Stella is just an emotional woman and he has exercised his rights as head of the household. Blanche, of course, brought it on herself and had it coming.

by Anonymousreply 171October 17, 2019 1:09 PM

This is why I love this play R171. Stanley had his home and his wife. So to say he has nothing, his not true. Those were his and Blanche threatened all that and would have taken all of that. Blanche was a legitimate threat.

by Anonymousreply 172October 17, 2019 1:28 PM

You are right, R172. Stanley has a jacket, too. And maybe he owns his own a bowling ball.

by Anonymousreply 173October 17, 2019 1:32 PM

Stanley was fuckable.

Shame he was barbaric.

by Anonymousreply 174October 17, 2019 4:20 PM

Who is it that is saying that Blanche wasn't a threat to Stanley? Were you sleeping through the scene where he is standing on the street screaming "Stella!" Blanche was a threat to him by getting Stella to leave him.

by Anonymousreply 175October 17, 2019 5:57 PM

There could have been sexual chemistry between Stanley and Blanche, if things had evolved another way. However, the sex was not consensual. It was not rough sex. It wasn't hate sex. The rape destroyed Blanche. Blanche was a threat to Stanley because of what R175 said. Stella was dumb and dickmatized to a degree. Blanche was smarter than Stella. Stanley needed to keep Stella in dumb mode.

Also, the apartment was already tiny and cramped. Stanley and Stella were poor with a baby on the way. Blanche and all her baggage (literally and figuratively), all her pretensions and long baths, etc., was a huge strain on the household.

by Anonymousreply 176October 17, 2019 6:04 PM

Jessica Lange and her approach were the most believably I've seen the role done.

by Anonymousreply 177October 17, 2019 6:12 PM

Blanche was a pain in the ass. No one would want the bitch as a houseguest.

by Anonymousreply 178October 17, 2019 6:16 PM

Blanche was truly annoying but that doesn't compare to Stanley's treatment of her. Her ruins her relationship with Mitch, which might have saved her. He intends to throw her out on the street. He rapes her. And in the end she's carted off to a mental institution. She annoys him but did does much worse to her.

by Anonymousreply 179October 17, 2019 8:42 PM

There was sexual chemistry between Stanley and Blanche from the moment Blanche walked into that apartment. And I don’t believe for a second that Mitch was going to save Blanche. Blanche was on the road to destruction. If Stanley hadn’t destroyed her someone else or Blanche herself would have done the deed.

by Anonymousreply 180October 17, 2019 8:46 PM

"Who is it that is saying that Blanche wasn't a threat to Stanley? "

Oh, I think Stanley FELT threatened by Blanche, she didn't see him the way he saw himself and that threatened his ego. But that's all something we have to live with, our families and our workplaces and the whole fucking world is people who don't see us the way we like to be seen and who may call us on our shit, we all have to find some adult way to deal with such people. We don't get to assault and destroy them. Anyone who actually does is a criminal and a monster.

Anyone who thinks that Stanley's actions were in any tiny way justified is a creepy little wierdo at best.

by Anonymousreply 181October 17, 2019 9:03 PM

Stanley just wants his tiny home (there isn't even a separate bedroom) back the way it was before his homeless sister-in-law showed up uninvited and set up camp.

He could have been nicer about it, but really, Blanche was a complaining, condescending bitch from the start (which probably wasn't a wise move.)

by Anonymousreply 182October 17, 2019 9:09 PM

[quote] Stanley just wants his tiny home (there isn't even a separate bedroom) back the way it was before his homeless sister-in-law showed up uninvited and set up camp.

If that were true, there would be no mention of the Napoleonic Code.

by Anonymousreply 183October 17, 2019 9:19 PM

That's on her first night, when he (naturally) has questions about where his wife's big family home went.

It's not like he goes on to sue Blanche.

by Anonymousreply 184October 17, 2019 11:01 PM

Wow. This thread is deplorable. Who knew DL was populated with such morons? A discussion can be had, but this one ain't it. I thought this was supposed to be a high caliber site. Twitter has much better discussion of classic films and stars. From younger, smarter and cuter posters. So many strange projections are posted here and the rest is literal nonsense. Again, wow. Y'all are very dumb. This is Datalounge?

by Anonymousreply 185October 18, 2019 8:31 AM

R185 You need to appreciate Nuance.

by Anonymousreply 186October 18, 2019 8:45 AM

Well go on, R185, dazzle us with your golden insights. Any idiot can laugh and point. (And say "wow" and "y'all".) Show us the true meaning of this play most of us have seen in three or four different productions and a couple of adaptations and yet completely missed. I double-dog dare you.

by Anonymousreply 187October 18, 2019 11:53 AM

I blocked r185 a while back. I rarely block but he was infesting too many threads of interest. Here are some samples of his "work." [Thread title in caps]

[Quote] COLTON HAYNES WENT THROUGH A DOWNWARD SPIRAL INTO DRUG ABUSE AFTER DIVORCE I fucked him off the coast of the Atlantic in his ass all summer.

[Quote] "JUDY" REVIEW: VARIETY RAVES ABOUT ZELLWEGGER, LOVES THE FILM I'm black, I mean beautiful AND handsome. I could add muscular, tall and extremely well hung.

[Quote] WHITE GUYS WIT ASS The ones with yellow skin. Yellow bone white men have the best asses. We love to parse ethnicities and color differences within them. Yellowbone white men have great natural ASS, but tend to have unusual features.

[Quote] LINDA RONSTADT HAS FOUND ANOTHER VOICE She loves Beyoncé, as do we all. She was kind of the Beyoncé of her day.

[Quote] DEBBIE AUTOBIOGRAPHY DROPS TOMORROW! Look at her face. That's all the story I need. She's a fuckin zombie. Dead, dull colorless. Why do old gays like Blondie and Cher so much? They're terrible musicians and bad singers. A couple of ok songs from the pre AIDS era I guess. Debbie Harry is not revered. She looks like a trailer park granny gangbang slut.

by Anonymousreply 188October 18, 2019 12:51 PM

I doubt said poster is black, probably just one of Matt's alters.

by Anonymousreply 189October 18, 2019 12:52 PM

R186 , this thread is about as nuanced as Suzanne Sommers nude pics at 73 .

by Anonymousreply 190October 18, 2019 1:04 PM

Brando does more than deliver sex and looks. Vivien Leigh in this role is a very acquired taste.

There are many good moments.

One that touches my narcissism is the minor narrative about Chinese lanterns and the hard reveal under the bare incandescent light bulb. I saw this movie in college when I was very handsome and very vain. A few years later on a lark I dated a man in his 60s and he had elaborate flattering lighting in his triplex penthouse and I always thought about the Chinese lanterns and shuddered a bit. I promised I would be brave about aging.

But aging is not for pussies, is it? One of the major themes of this play, in my opinion. Aging and poverty do Blanche in. With money, she could have continued on with some safety and dignity, just increasing delusions about her present condition and her questionable faded glory. Was she ever desirable at all?

by Anonymousreply 191October 18, 2019 1:13 PM

I guess somebody thought it would be daring and original to cast John C. Reilly, who is as homely as a horse's ass, as sex on a stick Stanley Kowalski. But I'm sure it didn't go over well. Reilly is so unattractive; no woman would have been under the sexual spell of someone who looked like THAT.

by Anonymousreply 192October 18, 2019 1:23 PM

But casting John C. Reilly does address the problem of a Stanley who is too pretty to be a credible brute. Treat Williams was never a good fit for the harsher, uglier, parts of Stanley Kowalski. Alec Baldwin isn't great. They were both so pretty. There might be a benefit to be gained by finding a Stanley who is built and exudes sex, but is not particularly handsome.

by Anonymousreply 193October 18, 2019 1:47 PM

Alec Baldwin has menace in him. WTF are you going on about.

by Anonymousreply 194October 18, 2019 1:48 PM

People found Brando pretty as a young man as well as hyper masculine so what are you saying exactly? That Brando wasn't particularly good looking but had sexual charisma in spite of that?

John Garfield was first choice but turned it down. He was not as beautiful as Brando but I think would have been sensational. Wonderful actor who without classic good looks certainly was found by the movie going public of the time to have a compelling exciting sexy presence.

by Anonymousreply 195October 18, 2019 2:28 PM

[quote]Aging and poverty do Blanche in. With money, she could have continued on with some safety and dignity, just increasing delusions about her present condition and her questionable faded glory. Was she ever desirable at all?

Blanche isn't some menopausal hag. Vivien was only 37 in [italic]Streetcar[/italic]. She still had a beautiful face despite the unflattering makeup and wig. It's Blanche's personality/psychological problems that render her unattractive.

by Anonymousreply 196October 18, 2019 2:30 PM

The way Leigh looked in the Streetcar movie was quite deliberate. Heavy handed, yes. They weren't "stuck" with that wig or Leigh's signs of age.

by Anonymousreply 197October 18, 2019 2:33 PM

Blanche Dubois the character is only about 30. They aged the character a bit in the movie. It worked well to age her.

It helps the movie in today's times, anyway.

In the 40's in the South, at 30, a never married, and tainted, woman was certainly over the hill, especially one with delusions of social standing.

Its interesting to compare to the sensibilities and show biz economics of 1950 Hollywood portrayed in Sunset. Norma Desmond is only 50 and she looks quite good. Even Joe tells her. Careerwise, she is a forgotten old lady. Norma is totally done in by age and her insanity about being a star forever. Not cash. Yet in the New Orleans of 1947, I think age has got Blanche in a bind, but it's primarily about money. She's destitute and has nothing material to prop up her delusions. If she had had cash, she could have held on as long as Norma - and then cracked at 50! If she had had the cash, Stanley would never have had to access to break her.

by Anonymousreply 198October 18, 2019 2:43 PM

I wonder what her marriage to Mitch would have been like, had that gone through.

One aspect Lange made clear in her version is that Blanche has become an alcoholic.

by Anonymousreply 199October 18, 2019 2:58 PM

Blythe Danner, Fran McDormand, Aidan Quinn, anyone? I can't be the only one who saw that revival on Broadway. And yes, I saw Jessica and Alec. I saw Ivo's production with Elizabeth Marvel, too - well, the first act, anyway.

by Anonymousreply 200October 18, 2019 4:19 PM

[Quote] Blythe Danner, Fran McDormand, Aidan Quinn, anyone?

McDormand was Stanley?

by Anonymousreply 201October 18, 2019 4:40 PM

Dorothy Faye, bitches!

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by Anonymousreply 202October 18, 2019 5:04 PM
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by Anonymousreply 203October 18, 2019 5:05 PM

(A candid, from her dressing room??)

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by Anonymousreply 204October 18, 2019 5:07 PM

I don't remember if Danner was good or not. Of course I went to see her because I thought she would be fantastic. I know Quinn was shit.

I was also disappointed in the Lange/Baldwin duo. Again, the casting seemed ideal.

Maybe the movie has spoiled me because I think that is perfection.

by Anonymousreply 205October 18, 2019 5:08 PM

I remember hearing that Faye played Blanche and thinking she must have been far too young at the time for some reason, but now knowing of how the character was conceived to be younger and seeing how go for broke bonkers she was in Mommie Dearest, I'd have loved to have seen her performance. Faye seems a bit like a Blanche in real life herself.

by Anonymousreply 206October 18, 2019 5:13 PM

[quote]R205 I was also disappointed in the Lange/Baldwin duo. Again, the casting seemed ideal.

Have you seen the Lange TV production, taped years later? It would be interesting to hear if there’s much difference, or if your response changed.

by Anonymousreply 207October 18, 2019 5:15 PM

Lange on stage and Lange on screen aren't necessarily the same thing. She's known for being rather big onscreen. That's not guaranteed when she appears on stage.

by Anonymousreply 208October 18, 2019 5:19 PM

G.

[quote]In Close's performance though, we mostly get staginess. At times indeed, her performance is so mannered that she puts one more in mind of an exceptionally accomplished drag artiste rather than a real woman suffering dreadfully. (The Telegraph)

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by Anonymousreply 209October 18, 2019 5:23 PM

No, I haven't R207. I'm sure it's superior just in the fact that they could do retakes. You've piqued my interest though. I will have to check it out.

I love Lange and am one of the 7 people that actually likes and appreciates Baldwin (talent wise - he seems to be a complete shit IRL).

by Anonymousreply 210October 18, 2019 5:23 PM

Did anyone see Glenn Close or Patricia Clarkson in the role? I heard Cate Blanchett was excellent and was happy we sort of got to see her own version of Blanche in Blue Jasmine.

by Anonymousreply 211October 18, 2019 5:33 PM

A young James Gandolfini was in the Baldwin/Lange Streetcar as Steve (oddly, his future onscreen sister Aida Turturro played his wife!).

What a fantastic Stanley he would have been.

by Anonymousreply 212October 18, 2019 5:45 PM

A young James Gandolfini was in the Baldwin/Lange Streetcar as Steve (oddly, his future onscreen sister Aida Turturro played his wife!).

What a fantastic Stanley he would have been.

(reposting with the pic in the right place)

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by Anonymousreply 213October 18, 2019 5:45 PM

[quote]Dorothy Faye, bitches!

r203, why would Stanley have two pens in his pocket? Or is that supposed to be Mitch?

by Anonymousreply 214October 18, 2019 5:51 PM

I know Our Faye was not pleased with Mr. Voight’s interpretation of Stanley. He was into making the character more typical sympathetic (perhaps wounded?) Maybe the pens are something he tied into that approach.

They fought like cats and dogs during that. My friend from the L.A. theater world back then said there was a bucket of water kept in the wings to dampen Voight with, so he’d appear sweaty. Faye took to peeing in it.

by Anonymousreply 215October 18, 2019 6:09 PM

Jon Voigt seems really wrong for the role of Stanley. Agree that it would have been interesting to see James Gandolfini play Stanley. I can see Faye Dunaway as Blanche, definitely.

by Anonymousreply 216October 18, 2019 6:14 PM

Sally Field auditioned for the part of Stella in that production. I wonder if the vast height difference between her and Dunaway killed it.

by Anonymousreply 217October 18, 2019 6:19 PM

One critic described Jon Voight's perfomance as Stanley as "disastrous." His sullen, sensitive everyman Stanley seemed incapable of destroying Blanche.

In her autobiography, Dunaway says they argued for months over their characterizations. He insisted that she play Blanche as a seductress; that her being flirty with him instigated the rape. She was appalled.

by Anonymousreply 218October 18, 2019 6:20 PM

The only modern actor who seems as all right to play Stanley is, IMHO, Daniel Craig. He can radiate testosterone and brutality when he wants to, he can be sexy and dangerous and so hot he seems to be worth the risk. Photogenic without being handsome, well built, charismatic, if he could do a New Orleans accent, he'd be everything a Stanley should be.

Or at least he WAS everything a Stanley should be, about 20 years ago. He's too old now, Stanley should be young, 35 at the absolute oldest. Stanley is young enough that his multiple failures in life haven't begun to bother him yet.

by Anonymousreply 219October 18, 2019 10:29 PM

Can Travis Fimmel act at all?

by Anonymousreply 220October 18, 2019 10:56 PM

I must be the only one left alive who saw Rosemary Harris and James Farentino.

Nobody ever brings it up.

One saw Farentino's very nice bare back.

by Anonymousreply 221October 18, 2019 11:10 PM

Why did you switch from I to One?

by Anonymousreply 222October 18, 2019 11:13 PM

Well because I assume I was not the only one who saw James bare assed in the play. Unless he just mooned me at that one performance.

by Anonymousreply 223October 18, 2019 11:21 PM

"In the 40's in the South, at 30, a never married, and tainted, woman was certainly over the hill, especially one with delusions of social standing."

She HAD been married. She was a widow. Her young, gay, closeted husband killed himself after she caught him with a man and later told him "I saw! I know! You disgust me!" He immediately shot himself after that. Blanche keeps having flashbacks of her husband's suicide; she hears the music that was playing at the time (they were at someplace called Moon Lake Casino), then hears the shot, and the music stops.

by Anonymousreply 224October 18, 2019 11:50 PM

[italic]Probably the best thing to be said about the 25th‐anniversary production of Tennessee Williams's “A Streetcar Named Desire” at the Ahmanson Theater in Los Angeles is that it doesn't obscure the play. Respectful, cautious, traditional and straightforward, James Bridges's production has no excitement, no inventiveness, and — apart from Faye Dunaway's performance — very little genuine artistry.

But Bridges's modest approach does have the advantage of focusing attention on the text. Few liberties have been taken; the setting is still New Orleans 1947, and most of the playwright's original stage directions are faithfully observed. Williams may be pleased with this reverence, though I think he would have been even better served by a director who took a few more chances with the material. A great production enriches the play by discovering its secrets.

When Elia Kazan cast Marlon Brando as Stanley Kowalski in his 1947 stage production and his 1951 movie version, he subtly altered the emphasis of Williams's play, and in the process showed us that the play contained more than we knew. On the page Blanche DuBois dominates “Streetcar.” In spite of all her lies, her plea for magic, illusion, poetry and culture is so eloquent that one feels that she speaks for the author; through Blanche, Williams protests the brutalization of modern life. But in the movie, Brando adds so much vitality that boorish Stanley overpowers Blanche —even in Vivien Leigh's magnificent performance — and makes her seem more often

Kazan's interpretation clarified Williams's own ambivalence; Stanley's mockery of Blanche is cruelly insensitive but, at the same time, a savagely honest response to her hypocrisy and her threadbare illusions. Reading the play again after seeing Brando as Stanley, you read it in a completely different way.

There are no revelations of that kind in James Bridges's production, though in some ways it is probably closer to Williams's original inttntion. Blanche is at stage center, she has all the dignity that Williams must have imagined. But if the Kazan production was slightly unbalanced in its emphasis on Stanley's animal magnetism, this production has the opposite problem: This time Blanche overwhelms Stanley; the antagonists are still not evenly matched. Faye Dunaway is younger and more glamorous than the typical Blanche, and her lovely costumes—designed by Theadora Van Runkle—intensify the enchantment. Jon Voight pales beside her; his feeble Stanley destroys the dramatic tension.

Voight is one of the finest actors of his generation; his film performances seem to me remarkable for their range, intelligence, and ex pressiveness. The role of Stanley Kowalski must be outside his range. Or maybe the Brando interpretation has intimidated him. For a long time, Brando is going to be the definitive Stanley. The other roles in “Streetcar” are open to a variety of interpretation but I'm not sure there is any way to play Stanley except as Brando played him — all brute force and insolent sexuality.[/italic]

(CONT'D)

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by Anonymousreply 225October 18, 2019 11:58 PM

[italic]To imitate Brando would be hopeless, but Voight's studious attempt to underplay the role is almost as disastrous. His relatively quiet, halting, ineffectual Stanley makes little sense on any level. He even throws the dishes politely. Voight simply has no menace; we never believe that he has the power to destroy Blanche.

Unlike Voight, Faye Dunaway has had a very uneven film career. Often mannered and uncontrolled in her serious roles, she has shown a flair for comedy—which she uses to build her riveting, original interpretation of Blanche. It must be a rare production when Blanche gets more laughs ihan Stanley, but that happens here. Dunaway's timing is expert; in the scene in which Stanley interrogates her about her loss of the family estate, she teasingly holds her own, and when she summarizes’ Stanley for her sister Stella (indifferently played by Lee McCain), her sarcasm is wither ing. Even in the harrowing final scene, Dunaway finds the comedy in Blanche's’ prediction that she will die of :eating an unwashed grape. By making the most of this survival humor, Dunaway allows us to see‘ the strength of Blanche's sensitivity. Her Blanche is not easily destroyed; she has resources.

In other moments, Dunaway controls the pathos of the long memory speeches, and her hysterical outbursts have a frightening charge to them. The one thing that eludes her is Blanche's fragile poetry. During the scene with the young newspaper boy, the audience laughs. When Vivien Leigh played the scene, the tenderness of her yearning took away all the tawdriness. Dunaway is remarkably impressive but she misses the lyricism; there are no transcendent moments in her performance.

Admittedly, Dunaway doesn't seem to have had much help from the director in apprehending the poetic level of “Streetcar.” James Bridges never achieves the dreamlike atmosphere that this play about illusion re quires. His direction is efficient and decent enough, but, depressingly literal‐minded. When the old flower‐sellerone of the playwright's less felicitous devices has to hawk her flowers of death, she lands on stage with a symbolic thud. Couldn't she have been dispensed with, or at least turned into a more bizarre nightmare apparition? Nothing teases the imagination in this plodding, prosaic “Streetcar.”

Bridges may have been inhibited by the management of the Music Center—Los Angeles’ equivalent of Lincoln Center. The board of directors of the Center Theater Group — wives of Los Ange les millionaires and movie notables like Rosalind Russell, George Cukor, Charlton Heston, Ross Hunter, George Seaton and Lew Wasserman —manage to put their middlebrow stamp on most productions at the Ahmanson. Controversy and experimentation are verboten—unless imported from England. “A Streetcar Named Desire” gets the stiff prestige treatment that the Ahmanson audience has come to expect; it has been mounted for museum exhibition — and it's really too early for that.

Considering all these obstacles, Tennessee Williams comes through virtually unscathed. The language of the play is still exhilarating; and in spite of all the social changes that might seem to have undermined “Streetcar,” it continues to speak to our concerns. The production doesn't help to clarify the pertinent issues, but one of the things that intrigued me on this viewing was Williams’ perception of the destructiveness of sexual role‐playing. Blanche plays the demure southern maiden, the fluttery coquette, but it is wrong to see her as a sheltered flower, a doomed butterfly too frail for the world. She has probably suffered and survived more than Stanley and she has not been defeated. [/italic]

(CONT'D)

by Anonymousreply 226October 19, 2019 12:01 AM

[Quote] Brando adds so much vitality that boorish Stanley overpowers Blanche —even in Vivien Leigh's magnificent performance — and makes her seem more often

Makes her seem more often what?

by Anonymousreply 227October 19, 2019 12:01 AM

[italic]What dooms her is that she stifles part of her nature. She is afraid to admit the fierceness of her sexual desires, afraid to expose her bitterness — perhaps because she intuitively understands what her society requires of women. Unable to resolve the tensions within herself, Blanche clings to the mannerisms of the southern belle, and she is trapped behind the silk screen of illusion—a Lady of Shalott lost in her shadow world.

Stanley is a slave to his “masculine” image; he defines himself by swaggering and bellowing. Savoring his brutality, Stanley becomes less than human—apelike, bestial. In the, Ahmanson production, Mitch — intelligently played by Earl HoMalanmakes an interesting foil to Stanley. At first he has the same. animal crudeness, but Blanche releases his tenderness; when she encourages him to talk about his mother, his depth of feeling exposes the emptiness of Stanley's belligerent masculinity. But the moment is lost; Mitch, like Stanley, can only evaluate Blanche by the standards of the locker room. None of them can relinquish their sexual conditioning. They play out the limiting roles assigned to them; they will never become whole.

Clearly this is only one possible interpretation of “Streetcar,” but I want to suggest why the play hasn't dated. Its ambiguity keeps it open and provocative; somehow it seems organic, capable of, changing to keep up with our changes. Does that mean the play is a masterpiece, a classic? It is too soon to say. This much is clear: Now 26 years old, “A Streetcar Named Desire” is still alive. I wish I could say as much for the tasteful, unadventurous Los Angeles revival.

by Anonymousreply 228October 19, 2019 12:02 AM

[Quote] Earl HoMalan

Earl Holliman?

by Anonymousreply 229October 19, 2019 12:05 AM

Who's the idiot who wrote that. The more you see the film the more you see that Leigh is Brando's equal from the beginning.

Which NYT's dope is that? Barnes or Kerr? After reading too much Pauline Kael.

by Anonymousreply 230October 19, 2019 12:14 AM

[quote]r229 Earl Holliman?

Old articles like that are scanned onto the NY Times site by a program, converting hard copies into text, and no one really proofs them.

WRITE A LETTER TO THE EDITOR!!

by Anonymousreply 231October 19, 2019 12:18 AM

"Treat Williams was never a good fit for the harsher, uglier, parts of Stanley Kowalski. Alec Baldwin isn't great. They were both so pretty."

Neither Williams nor Baldwin were "pretty." They were both attractive men in their own ways, but pretty they were not. I don't think Alec Baldwin would have been right for Stanley. He just doesn't seem the type, although he does have a hairy chest, tying in with Blanche's description of him as "an ape." But I thought Treat Williams made a terrific Stanley; brutish, menacing, and sexy in that lower class, "common" way. And he had a hairy chest, too.

by Anonymousreply 232October 19, 2019 12:54 AM

What about DL fave Russell Crowe (not now, obvs.)?

by Anonymousreply 233October 19, 2019 1:50 AM

Russell Crowe would have made an excellent Stanley way back when. Too bad that never happened.

by Anonymousreply 234October 19, 2019 2:13 AM

There was talk of Russell Crowe and Cate Blankett doing an updated non-New Orleans version about ten years ago.

They had discussions and did tests here on the Australian North Coast but silly Russell had another of his tantrums and it was killed off.

by Anonymousreply 235October 19, 2019 3:49 AM

Russell Crowe in tank top circa 1997 (L.A. Confidential).

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by Anonymousreply 236October 19, 2019 4:55 AM

Crowe would have been excellent as Stanley until about 15 years ago.

by Anonymousreply 237October 19, 2019 6:01 PM

Kim Basinger (L.A. Confidential as well) maybe could have been a good Blanche. KB is from Athens, GA, so she's southern.

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by Anonymousreply 238October 19, 2019 6:07 PM

I reckon this illiterate Palooka could do Polack Stanley.

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by Anonymousreply 239October 19, 2019 10:34 PM

[quote]r238 Kim Basinger (L.A. Confidential as well) maybe could have been a good Blanche. KB is from Athens, GA, so she's southern.

I love Basinger, but I think she's too naturally tender and introverted to be a Blanche.

by Anonymousreply 240October 19, 2019 11:09 PM

Plus, Basinger is just not a good actress.

by Anonymousreply 241October 19, 2019 11:13 PM

Perhaps we need a bad (stupid) actress to play Blanche (who is rather stupid)?

Tennessee Williams makes us care about most of his characters (most of whom are naturally stupid while the remainder are stupid by circumstance).

by Anonymousreply 242October 19, 2019 11:21 PM

Almost everyone is too old. Glenn Close!!!!! She was 55.

by Anonymousreply 243October 19, 2019 11:31 PM

Jessica Tandy was 40 - so I guess right from the start they began using slightly older actresses for Blanche.

Elia Kazan initially wanted Mary Martin (age 35) for the role, producer Irene Selznick wanted Margaret Sullavan (age 39), and the playwright himself preferred English actress Pamela Brown (age 31). It's interesting that the writer is the one who wanted an actress actually close to the character's age.

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by Anonymousreply 244October 19, 2019 11:47 PM

If Blanche had married Mitch, it'd have ended when he caught her in bed with a neighbor's horny teenaged son.

by Anonymousreply 245October 19, 2019 11:57 PM

Pamela Brown

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by Anonymousreply 246October 19, 2019 11:57 PM

^ Wow, Pamela Brown!

She was a fascinating bell-laid actress who didn't do too well in movies.

I'm guessing Tennessee knew her because of her being so sensational in that verse-play The Lady's Not For Burning.

Time magazine wrote says (20 November 1950): "Pamela Brown proves that the author did not write the part for her in vain. No one has a more gloriously uppity charm; no voice can simultaneously so rasp and thrill; no one ever made standoffishness more come-hitherable.".

'The Lady's Not For Burning' was a verse-play and Williams may claim to be interested only in sex and degradation but in the 1940s he was known as much for his slightly 'dilly' poetic touches in his plays.

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by Anonymousreply 247October 19, 2019 11:58 PM

I think Margaret Sullavan might have been really something as Blanche. She and the character had things in common; both Southern (Sullavan was from Virginia), both mentally ill. And of course she was a superb actress. Too bad playing Blanche never happened for her.

by Anonymousreply 248October 20, 2019 12:32 AM

Lindsay Lohan IS Blanche Dubois!!! Summer 2020 at the Bodrum Rep.

by Anonymousreply 249October 20, 2019 12:40 AM

Tennessee Williams wrote something like, "Margaret Sullavan read for us twice, but I could never quite see her without a tennis racquet in her hand, and I somehow suspected Blanche had never held a tennis racquet in her life."

Sullava was also somewhat taken aback by the frank nature of the play. I don't think she was fully onboard with committing to it; they were all just feeling the situation out.

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by Anonymousreply 250October 20, 2019 12:51 AM

R248 You might think a mentally ill woman might be satisfactory playing a mentally ill woman but a real actress is needed to project their voice in the Barrymore Theatre with its over a thousand seats.

Both Jessica Tandy and Pamela Brown were genuine performers trained on the English stage where theatre was born and the author's script is respected.

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by Anonymousreply 251October 20, 2019 12:59 AM

Didn't Close play Norma Desmond before Blanche? Those should have definitely been reversed.

by Anonymousreply 252October 20, 2019 1:01 AM

The casting for the original STREETCAR was tricky and drawn out, because as a business-minded producer, Irene Selznick required the actors to commit to doing a 2 year contract. She didn't want a star like John Garfield or Burt Lancaster (or whoever) to come in, get the glory, and then bail after just 1 season. That's why those two stars weren't cast. She was pretty sure the play would run for over a year and wanted the original cast to be there for a full 2 seasons. Partially to make money, but also to sustain the integrity of the production.

She kind of had a beef with Vivien Leigh, who had bailed on her contract with Irene's husband after GONE WITH THE WIND, but Irene finally okayed her for the London production. Olivier did a terrible job directing it (not understanding the...milieu of the story, as it were) and started cutting huge parts of the script. Irene had to really battle to get him back in line and restore the cuts. (Granted, the play is long, but the original production had already gone through and cut stuff in rehearsal, and as the producer she felt everything that finally remained was esential.)

by Anonymousreply 253October 20, 2019 1:15 AM

I'm not qualified to talk about the 1940s New York stage but was it in any way common or likely to import some non-actor movie performer (like John Garfield or Burt Lancaster or whoever) to appear in the legitimate New York theatre?

by Anonymousreply 254October 20, 2019 1:23 AM

[quote]r254 was it in any way common or likely to import some non-actor movie performer (like John Garfield or Burt Lancaster or whoever) to appear in the legitimate New York theatre?

Well, for one thing, it was hard to get a lot of them, because most were under long term contracts (7 years) to a specific studio, which wouldn't want to let them go to NYC for a year, let alone two. A very few (like Katharine Hepburn) had clauses in their contracts that would let them have time off to do a play.

A stage producer might catch a performer between contracts... when the actor could make their own decisions. And some, like Shelley Winters, went independent as soon as possible, and could choose a film, then a play, then a film etc. Frances Farmer did several New York plays while still under contract to Paramount, I think. It might have depended on how many projects a studio had lined up immediately for a performer.

It's a good question. I don't know the definitive answer. But theaters were almost always happy to cast as big a star as possible in any given role - it was good for the marquee. They would have to be right for the role, ideally. And they'd still have to read for the director, producer, and playwright - - so that would weed out anyone really disasterous, I think.

by Anonymousreply 255October 20, 2019 1:49 AM

By the time Tallulah Bankhead got around to playing Blanche in "Streetcar" at the NY City Center in1956, she was 54 years old and had become a drag parody of herself. Her strong personality and grande dame mannerisms were at odds with Blanche's fragile persona. After a disastrous trial run at Coconut Grove Playhouse in Florida, she tried her damndest to play it straight, but each time she uttered a line, her gay fans in the audience would hoot and holler, interpreting her readings with wry humor and stinging irony. Unable to fight a lost cause, Tallu played along with them, camping it up for her gays. Tennessee Williams was furious, and critics were not amused, accusing her of vulgarizing the play.

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by Anonymousreply 256October 20, 2019 1:49 AM

^ 'Gay fans in the audience hooting and hollering" certainly occurred when we saw 'Mommie Dearest' in the picture theatres.

The old ladies in the audience were mightily affronted shooshing us at our rudeness displayed to their idol.

by Anonymousreply 257October 20, 2019 2:00 AM

I know Olivia de Havilland was offered the film version before Leigh, because she'd still been steadily working in American film while Leigh had faded from the scene for a decade. But like Sullavan, de Havilland was put off by the plot's overtly sexual nature. She turned it down.

by Anonymousreply 258October 20, 2019 2:13 AM

Marlon Brando was sex on legs in this. Gorgeous.

by Anonymousreply 259October 20, 2019 2:36 AM

Yes. It was the perfect meeting of actor and role for a breakthrough.

by Anonymousreply 260October 20, 2019 2:49 AM

Natasha Richardson was 42 when she did the play, and I remember one major review said something about her "never looking less than fabulous" despite Blanche's stressed out plight.

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by Anonymousreply 261October 20, 2019 2:56 AM

"You might think a mentally ill woman might be satisfactory playing a mentally ill woman but a real actress is needed to project their voice in the Barrymore Theatre with its over a thousand seats."

Margaret Sullivan was an accomplished stage actress. In fact, that's mostly what she did. She never much liked making movies. I think Tennessee WIlliams underestimated her. He might have never been able to see her "without a tennis racquet in her hand', but she was an actress, and a damn good one. I think she would have done well in the role.

by Anonymousreply 262October 20, 2019 3:14 AM

I don't think Sullavan gave her all in her two readings, because she wasn't convinced she even wanted the part. She knew it was an important new play, but it's not like she knocked herself out to convince them she was right for it. If she'd given a full throttle reading and really connected with the role, maybe she'd have had Williams on her side. But she didn't and he wasn't - - and he only commented on the situation years later, so we can't be sure what his immediate response was when it was all happening in 1946, or whenever.

(And it might also have been that since she was kind of wishy-washy about it all, he was a little hurt, or insulted.)

by Anonymousreply 263October 20, 2019 3:28 AM

People keep bringing up Sunset Boulevard, and it occurred to me- it seems like Charles Brackett and Billy Wilder ripped off the ending of Streetcar Named Desire.

In Sunset, Norma has descended into madness after a tragic event (the shooting of Joe Gillis.) She won't leave her room, but is coaxed out using a ruse where people pretend they're filming a movie. She says a few words, and the movie ends.

In Streetcar, Blanche has descended into madness after a tragic event (her rape by Stanley.) She won't leave her room, but is coaxed out using a ruse where a doctor pretends to be the beau she was expecting. She says a few words, and the play ends.

I actually wonder if Tennessee Williams was annoyed to have been cribbed from so obviously. I mean, I actually think it's okay, because Wilder did something pretty spectacular with the idea. But it's definitely a variation on a theme.

by Anonymousreply 264October 20, 2019 3:30 AM

This shows some footage of the Natasha Richardson version:

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by Anonymousreply 265October 20, 2019 3:38 AM

It's interesting that none of the actresses sought/audtioned for the NY production were beauties.

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by Anonymousreply 266October 20, 2019 1:57 PM

It's interesting that none of the actresses sought/audtioned for the NY production were beauties.

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by Anonymousreply 267October 20, 2019 1:57 PM

If Mary Martin was the one Kazan wanted, his original conception of Blanche is very different than the one we've come to know. She was a talent, but not at all attractive. You couldn't buy that she was ever the Belle of the ball.

by Anonymousreply 268October 20, 2019 2:18 PM

While I agree that's true for the screen, the stage isn't quite the same. Martin would not have been given "My Heart Belongs to Dayy" if she hadn't been considered attractive enough to pull it off.

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by Anonymousreply 269October 20, 2019 2:25 PM

Uhhh.... If Mary Martin was not gifted with an absolutely winning personality, she would never have had the great career she had. Her stock in trade was charm, charm, charm. She was the belle of the ball eight times a week in every show she ever did. She could charm Stanley. She charmed everyone else.

Take a look at the video of "The Skin of Our Teeth." She shows a far greater range in her performance of Sabina then we might anticipate from her work in her enormous musical hits.

by Anonymousreply 270October 20, 2019 2:28 PM

It's odd to think of sunny Mary Martin being the director's first choice, but she was highly sought after at the time. She must have been offered a ton of roles.

by Anonymousreply 271October 20, 2019 3:04 PM

So much range, in fact, she would have one believe she was Vivien Leigh.

by Anonymousreply 272October 20, 2019 3:10 PM

They told her to take a streetcar named Desire.

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by Anonymousreply 273October 20, 2019 3:16 PM

I dunno. Mary Martin was much younger when she sang da da da da da da da da daddy yea. But, ok. I guess I see another side of it now.

by Anonymousreply 274October 20, 2019 3:35 PM

Mary Martin was 34 when "A Streetcar Named Desire" opened on Broadway. This was before South Pacific and Peter Pan. It was about the same time as her National Tour in "Annie Get Your Gun." She had a huge stage presence and might have been a stronger foil for Brando than Tandy turned out to be.

by Anonymousreply 275October 20, 2019 3:44 PM

I always wanted to see Elaine Stritch as Blanche.

"Fuck you, Stanley. What have you done to my sister?"

"Mitch, I said, get me a fucking drink. I'm not going to ask again."

"Not only was I the belle of the ball, I owned that fucking ball."

by Anonymousreply 276October 20, 2019 3:52 PM

Mary Martin and Elaine Stritch would have both been excellent Blanches because they both married gay men.

by Anonymousreply 277October 20, 2019 3:54 PM

R277 by that standard, Liza would be the best Blanche ever!

by Anonymousreply 278October 20, 2019 6:05 PM

Martin certainly had the star power to equal Brando on stage and if anybody could have gotten the performance necessary out of her it was Kazan. It would have been interesting for her to go from Blanche to Nellie. And I bet she had so much clout she could have whittled down that contract at least by half a year. Remember Kazan at this point was not only a giant on Broadway but in movies as well. Tree Grows in Brooklyn threw everyone for a loop in its emotional power and popularity.

by Anonymousreply 279October 20, 2019 6:24 PM

Miss Sullavan's own mental issues may have made her apprehensive about the part.

by Anonymousreply 280October 20, 2019 6:48 PM

Pamela Brown???

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by Anonymousreply 281October 20, 2019 6:51 PM

^ No , the fabulous Pamela Brown (muse to Michael Powell and friend to Burton, Olivier and Gielgud)

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by Anonymousreply 282October 20, 2019 7:01 PM

We all know who would make the PERFECT Blanche Dubois in 2020...

by Anonymousreply 283October 20, 2019 7:13 PM

I could see Brittany Murphy as Blanche.

by Anonymousreply 284October 20, 2019 7:16 PM

If history could be rearranged and all the timing issues were resolved to make it physically possible, Liz Taylor would have been a great Blanche. The first moment she arrived in that small apartment with her big tits, everyone would know this will end in tears. She could be a good sister to Stella. She could play the girl Mitch thought he wanted. She could have made Brando lose his mind. And we could believe that she was an alcoholic whose emotional neediness leads her to sleep with any man who feigns kindness to her.

If she could have played it with Brando, the theater would have been combustible.

by Anonymousreply 285October 20, 2019 7:37 PM

Two leads with bad voices?!

by Anonymousreply 286October 20, 2019 7:39 PM

Did Gloria Grahame ever play Blanche?

by Anonymousreply 287October 20, 2019 7:41 PM

I don't know how much theater she even did, r287, but she does have two Broadway credits.

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by Anonymousreply 288October 20, 2019 7:53 PM

R285, Miss Taylor had a tendency to get a little too histrionic and screechy when attempting pivotal scenes. Subtlety was not in her repertoire.

by Anonymousreply 289October 20, 2019 9:51 PM

IMHO Blanche should be good-looking, but not a raving beauty. Slightly past her prime, of course. She's someone who knows damn well that she's attractive to men, and who counts on using that attraction to fulfill her practical and emotional needs, and who can't face life without being able to depend on male attention.

I just can't see Mary Martin being able to play that, or understand it.

And in a way, the filmmakers were right to give Vivien Leigh an unflattering blonde wig and reduce her beauty a little, if she'd brought all her looks to the role nobody would believe that she was desperate enough to consider settling for a Mitch. Although, they really should have found a more natural-looking blonde wig for her, that thing was stiff and ugly.

by Anonymousreply 290October 20, 2019 10:57 PM

[quote] R285 Liz Taylor would have been a great Blanche.

Oh, good god no. More than half the time she couldn’t act her way out of a paper bag.

Just about the only emotion she could play was “messy abandon”. (Plus, the idea of Liz as an English teacher is ludicrous.)

by Anonymousreply 291October 20, 2019 11:00 PM

Meryl could have played both Blanche and Stella in the same movie.

by Anonymousreply 292October 20, 2019 11:02 PM

We could have bought it for $9,683.96

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by Anonymousreply 293October 20, 2019 11:07 PM
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by Anonymousreply 294October 20, 2019 11:10 PM

It’s interesting that in the Sotheby’s link, they note neither Kazan or Williams wanted Leigh in the part.

Olivia de Havilland and Anne Baxter were approached first.

by Anonymousreply 295October 20, 2019 11:15 PM

Liz Taylor would have been a godawful Blanche! Taylor's basic personality is forthright and unpretentious (or vulgar), she wouldn't understand Blanche's delusions or pretensions. When La Liz is feeling insecure and horny and wants to fuck the nearest teenager do you think she'd dress up her attraction in ladylike mannerisms and flowery language? Hell no, it'd be tits out and four-letter words!

Some of you have no understanding of casting.

by Anonymousreply 296October 20, 2019 11:18 PM

Anne Baxter. Ugh.

by Anonymousreply 297October 20, 2019 11:20 PM

Blanche was supposed to look rode hard and put away wet, which is probably why they always cast older actresses. Blanche was 30, but she was a drunk and the town hang out hole for teens, which made her look older.

by Anonymousreply 298October 20, 2019 11:24 PM

Marilyn Monroe did a scene from STREETCAR at the Actors Studio that was supposed to be riveting. I can see her getting the lost, anxious alcoholic aspect right.... at least for 1 scene.

She also once did the opening scene from ANNA CHRISTIE with Maureen Stapleton. The other members had their knives out and the place was packed to the rafters - but Susan Strasberg said ultimately it was the only scene she ever saw there that received applause.

by Anonymousreply 299October 20, 2019 11:26 PM

[quote]Blanche was 30, but she was a drunk and the town hang out hole for teens, which made her look older.

But she taught English!

by Anonymousreply 300October 20, 2019 11:27 PM

Tandy didn't look at all rode hard and put away wet.

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by Anonymousreply 301October 20, 2019 11:28 PM

Actually, Marilyn could have been a fantastic Blanche, if she'd ever been stable enough to get through the whole thing! Because she was far too unprofessional to ever do a play, someone who spends all day waiting in her trailer and then doing 100 takes because she can't remember her lines isn't doing theater, and they weren't remaking a film version when she was the right age.

I'm not a huge fan of Monroe, because she never seemed to be a real person but someone trying hard to be the embodiment of men's fantasies... but that unreal quality would have totally worked for the role of Blanche DuBois, who is largely a creature of her own imagination. Marilyn's charisma, her sexiness, her vulnerability, and underlying air of desperation, would also have been perfect. As was her artificial beauty, and her age towards the end of her career. Too bad she was much too young for the role in 1950.

by Anonymousreply 302October 20, 2019 11:41 PM

You might as well suggest Jean Harlow. Blanche is a school teacher. And she doesn't teach at the Copacabana Dramatic School.

by Anonymousreply 303October 20, 2019 11:47 PM

"She also once did the opening scene from ANNA CHRISTIE with Maureen Stapleton. The other members had their knives out and the place was packed to the rafters - but Susan Strasberg said ultimately it was the only scene she ever saw there that received applause."

The applause was for her getting through the scene, not the quality of it. Marilyn Monroe doing ANY scene at the Actor's Studio was considered something of a miracle. Most of the time she just watched others silently; she was terrified to get up in front of them and do a scene. Somebody said sometimes she'd get so scared she'd wet her pants. She really was that insecure.

by Anonymousreply 304October 21, 2019 12:23 AM

Blanche, after class

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by Anonymousreply 305October 21, 2019 1:12 AM

Shelley Winters played Blanche in some little theater once or twice.

Boy, i’d have liked to see THAT!

by Anonymousreply 306October 21, 2019 1:22 AM

Can some internet sleuth PLEASE uncover reviews of Shirley Schrift‘s STREETCAR?? I must read about it!!

by Anonymousreply 307October 21, 2019 1:31 AM

They re-set it in the Bronx, r307.

by Anonymousreply 308October 21, 2019 1:44 AM

Shelley Winters was up for an Oscar the year Vivien Leigh won for "Streetcar." Shelley was so confident that she would win for "A Place in the Sun" that when Ronald Colman announced the winner, she thought she had heard her name. So she got up and made a beeline for the stage, but her companion, Vittorio Gassman, tackled her just before she reached the first step. "As we lay on the floor of the aisle, I thought he'd gone insane," remembered Shelley. "Shelley, it's Vivien Leigh," Gassman whispered. So they crawled back to their seats "as inconspicuously as possible."

Shelley would then go on telling anybody who'd listen that Vivien Leigh "had taken my Oscar."

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by Anonymousreply 309October 21, 2019 5:49 AM

No doubt in the Shelley version, Stanley drowned Blanche rather than raped her. Obviously, it cut down the running time as well.

by Anonymousreply 310October 21, 2019 10:58 AM

Some googling reveals that Shelley played it in Los Angeles in 1955. Dennis Weaver was her Stanley Kowalski. I saw some reports that she also did a summer stock tour as Blanche, too.

I would love a photo of this. If any of you crafty boys have one in your personal stash, please post it!

by Anonymousreply 311October 21, 2019 12:39 PM

Wow I got goosebumps thinking of Monroe doing a scene from Streetcar. But as others suggest, I can only imagine her being able to do one scene. I can picture Marilyn saying " A streetcar named desire brought me here! Where I am not wanted, and where I'm ashamed to be."

by Anonymousreply 312October 21, 2019 3:24 PM

I don't think MM would've been good on the stage. Her face was made for the camera. On stage she would've had to rely on actual acting than posing and giving good face. Her whisper coo voice, even in song and in interviews, lacked power to reach the back rows of a theater. Not to mention, Miss 50 Takes, wouldn't have had the stamina to endure a live three-act play.

by Anonymousreply 313October 21, 2019 3:56 PM

In the right time and with everyone age-appropriate, I could have seen Chris Meloni as Stanley and Annette Bening as Blanche. Laura Linney as Stella?

by Anonymousreply 314October 21, 2019 4:19 PM

I thought Meloni was offered Stanley in the Natasha production and turned it down.

by Anonymousreply 315October 21, 2019 5:11 PM

When she died, one of the projects MM was discussing was a televised version of RAIN, to be directed by Lee Strasberg. That sounds awful.

I don’t think she’d have been able to memorize all of STREETCAR, either. Blanche goes on a LOT, and she’s in almost every scene. Maybe if they rehearsed it for a YEAR... tho I like the idea of Jayne Mansfield being her standby, and plotting to take over. (Replacing the prop bottles with real booze, etc.)

by Anonymousreply 316October 21, 2019 5:46 PM

Chris Meloni as Stanley would have been true dream casting. I'd imagine a lot of men would turn that role down due to the shadow of Brando. It's hard to compete.

by Anonymousreply 317October 21, 2019 5:48 PM

I don't think Annette Bening would have been good for the Blanche role.

by Anonymousreply 318October 21, 2019 5:53 PM

Shelley as Stella (if she could tone it down) to MM’s Blanche.

She always claimed they were so close — let’s SEE IT, bitch!

by Anonymousreply 319October 21, 2019 5:54 PM

Annette’s too level headed for that part. She could have made a decent Stella, at one time, maybe.

by Anonymousreply 320October 21, 2019 5:56 PM

I wish I could have seen Miss Nettleton's Blanche.

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by Anonymousreply 321October 21, 2019 6:00 PM

I would like to have seen Michelle Pfeiffer take a shot at Blanche, not necessarily on stage.

by Anonymousreply 322October 21, 2019 6:02 PM

Mary Louise Parker as Blanche; Janeane Garafalo as Stella

by Anonymousreply 323October 21, 2019 6:05 PM

Patricia Clarkson

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by Anonymousreply 324October 21, 2019 6:10 PM

Who does Stella look 40?

by Anonymousreply 325October 21, 2019 6:11 PM

Angelina Jolie as Blanche ...

by Anonymousreply 326October 21, 2019 6:15 PM

La Liz as Blanche and Debbie Reynolds as Stella.

But Liz would never be so ruthless as to threaten a marriage.

by Anonymousreply 327October 21, 2019 6:23 PM

Jolie is too butch.

by Anonymousreply 328October 21, 2019 6:25 PM

Gillian Anderson

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by Anonymousreply 329October 21, 2019 6:56 PM

Nicole Ari Parker as Blanche, Blair Underwood as Stanley

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by Anonymousreply 330October 21, 2019 7:00 PM

Blair Underwood? It should have been "Baby Wipes".

by Anonymousreply 331October 21, 2019 7:02 PM

When do we get the tranny version?

by Anonymousreply 332October 21, 2019 7:18 PM

R332, you must've missed this one when it came to town.

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by Anonymousreply 333October 21, 2019 7:24 PM

That's one ugly ass Blanche.

by Anonymousreply 334October 21, 2019 7:40 PM

Is there anything Loveconnie can't do?!

by Anonymousreply 335October 21, 2019 7:42 PM

Blanche looks more of a bruiser than Stanley.

by Anonymousreply 336October 21, 2019 7:43 PM

[quote]Blanche looks more of a bruiser than Stanley.

Maybe it was like that production of A Doll's House where all the men were dwarfs and all the women were over 6 feet tall.

by Anonymousreply 337October 21, 2019 7:48 PM

Which one will win this round?

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by Anonymousreply 338October 21, 2019 7:56 PM

In that production, did Mitch only ever encounter Blanche in a bar darkroom?

by Anonymousreply 339October 21, 2019 8:10 PM

"I would like to have seen Michelle Pfeiffer take a shot at Blanche, not necessarily on stage. "

When Pfeiffer was the right age for Blanche, she was actually too beautiful for the role! You just wouldn't believe that someone with Pfeiffer's looks would have no options but being a poor relation and no suitors but Mitch.

Like I said, Blanche should be good-looking, but not a great beauty.

by Anonymousreply 340October 21, 2019 9:44 PM

What's the right age? The script may say 30 but that's not the age most productions go for. A 40 year old woman can look great but she still can't compete with a 25 year old. Ask Demi Moore.

by Anonymousreply 341October 21, 2019 9:51 PM

[quote] r325 Why does Stella look 40?

Because Patricia Clarkson was in her 40s.

NY Times: [italic]"This production plays cleverly on the physical similarities between the sisters."[italic] (It's the same actress who did Stella in the Natasha Richardson production, too.)

by Anonymousreply 342October 21, 2019 9:53 PM

I like Michelle Pfeiffer, but I don't think she would have been good as Blanche. MP is too icy. Vivien Leigh was considered beautiful but managed to pull it off.

by Anonymousreply 343October 21, 2019 9:59 PM
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by Anonymousreply 344October 21, 2019 10:04 PM

[quote]r343 Vivien Leigh was considered beautiful but managed to pull it off.

She sure aged super fast. She only got 2 or 3 hours of sleep a night, or something.

(whoring does that to ya.)

by Anonymousreply 345October 21, 2019 10:18 PM

I adore Vivien but she was too young for this role.

And the claustrophobic, verbose movie stunk with Kazanisms.

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by Anonymousreply 346October 21, 2019 10:36 PM

Too young?? She was the oldest one in the cast!

by Anonymousreply 347October 21, 2019 11:29 PM

It was bad career move for Vivien.

Her last two quality films 'Caesar' and 'Karenina' didn't do well at the box office and her "ageing" make-up looked so fake.

by Anonymousreply 348October 21, 2019 11:32 PM

Vivien Leigh won the Oscar and her performance was (and is) considered definitive. How was that a bad career move?

by Anonymousreply 349October 22, 2019 12:28 AM

^ Vivien didn't do another big movie. 'The Deep Blue Sea' in 1955 is a good movie but a small one.

Her masochistic, self-hating role as Tennessee William's failure Blanche was repeated in the pathetic 'Roman Spring of Mrs Stone'.

Her masochistic, self-hating role as Blanche opposite ugly Karl Malden was repeated playing opposite another ugly man in 'Ship of Fools'.

Playing a failure in Streetcar (plus some private issues) jinxed the rest of Vivien's career.

by Anonymousreply 350October 22, 2019 12:39 AM

Leigh's movie career was spotty before Streetcar and it remained spotty after...

by Anonymousreply 351October 22, 2019 12:42 AM

Vivien concentrated on her stage career to the detriment of her film career. Her mental health began to deteriorate when she was still relatively young and bankable as a movie star. Also she just pretty much walked away from her contract with Selznick which didn’t really do her any favors.

by Anonymousreply 352October 22, 2019 12:50 AM

Leigh sadly spent much of her life chasing elusive greatness on the stage. Her towering achievements on screen a poor substitute for what Olivier could achieve on stage. Leigh when she wasn't suffering from her bipolar disorder was a good generous person. Olivier was never good or generous in any circumstance. Losing his beloved mother when he was a boy and having a father who hated him fucked him up good.

by Anonymousreply 353October 22, 2019 1:39 AM

[Quote] Her towering achievements on screen a poor substitute for what Olivier could achieve on stage

That makes little sense considering theatre is ephemeral.

by Anonymousreply 354October 22, 2019 1:40 AM

R350 Ok, now we've heard the idiot opinion.

by Anonymousreply 355October 22, 2019 1:55 AM

R354 In her mind what mattered was the stage. And from all accounts there was no one better than Olivier.

by Anonymousreply 356October 22, 2019 2:01 AM

And yet no one talks of "Rebecca" or "Wuthering Heights" as an Olivier film. He did not make as indelible mark on screen as Leigh did with just two roles.

by Anonymousreply 357October 22, 2019 2:03 AM

I liked Ann Margaret in the role. She looked like a good looking but aging woman, which is exactly how Blanche should look. Still attractive, but fading.

by Anonymousreply 358October 22, 2019 2:05 AM

Olsson was so... ample. Her physicality gave her a strength that wasn't right for Blanche.

by Anonymousreply 359October 22, 2019 2:13 AM

Leigh didn't age well, and lost her bloom comparatively young. It wasn't just the bipolar disorder and marriage to a narcissist, she'd had tuberculosis during the 1940s. It recurred and killed her in the 1960s, it can do that. She was officially in her late 30s when she made "Streetcar", and not looking her best. Well, she couldn't look her best in the role, or nobody would believe she'd seriously consider a man like Mitch.

As to the theater vs. film thing... SHE considered that theater was the greater art form, and spent most of her marriage to Olivier ignoring film and trying to master theatrical acting. Which was a goddamn shame, she was a top film actress and didn't really have enough of a voice to be at her best in the theater, while Olivier was always better on the stage than on the screen. Olivier was probably the SOB who convinced her that the theater was all that mattered and that film meant nothing, he would. It was her choice to make theater a bigger priority than film, but IMHO anyone who encouraged her to do that did not have her best interests at heart.

by Anonymousreply 360October 22, 2019 3:09 AM

I don't think he considered her any great stage actress, but you can't really tell that to a spouse. At the same time, the fact that he was vain and jealous (as all actors are) probably kept him from fully encouraging her Hollywood career.

There's no reason to pity her, though. She enjoyed being 1.) Lady Olivier, and 2.) doing theater. So. fine.

by Anonymousreply 361October 22, 2019 3:15 AM

R357, Olivier's film achievements during his time towered over Leigh's. Yes, she scored 2 Oscar wins out of 2 career nominations. But Olivier scored 10 competitive acting nominations and 1 for directing Hamlet, won 1, received an Honorary Oscar for directing, producing, and acting in Henry V, and received a Lifetime Achievement Oscar. That speaks volumes about how well regarded he was in the industry.

Over time Leigh's celebrity may have eclipsed Olivier's by the sheer power of GWTW alone. Whenever "Streetcar" is brought up it's usually due to Brando's starmaking performance.

by Anonymousreply 362October 22, 2019 3:23 AM

But back to more important things: She did go straight to matronly with alarming speed:

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by Anonymousreply 363October 22, 2019 3:24 AM

Didn't Olivier start a huge row with Vivien the night she won her Oscar for GWTW? That's such a narcissist thing to do.

In interviews Olivier always comes across as massively insecure. The only interview I've ever seen with Vivien is the one where Edward R. Murrow interviews her alongside Kenneth Tynan. She looks older than her age in that 1950s matronly way but I have to say she seems quite steely and self-possessed underneath the charm. Vivien was a more sophisticated person than her darling Larry-- she was multi-lingual, an art collector, and very well read.

by Anonymousreply 364October 22, 2019 3:33 AM

[quote]r350 Vivien didn't do another big movie.

She could have redeemed herself with [italic]Hush...Hush, Sweet Charlotte,[/italic] but No.

by Anonymousreply 365October 22, 2019 3:34 AM

R363, She was a product of her time. Back then, when women turned 40, they cut and styled their hair like their mum, and dressed in "age appropriate" clothes like their mum's. The smoking and evening apéritifs certainly didn't help keep them from aging.

Here is Vivien, aged 43-44, already looking matronly. Today's 40+ actresses dress like they're still in their 20s.

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by Anonymousreply 366October 22, 2019 3:38 AM

[quote]r364 Vivien was a more sophisticated person than her darling Larry-- she was multi-lingual, an art collector, and very well read.

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by Anonymousreply 367October 22, 2019 3:38 AM

R366, Vivien's suit, gloves, and hat really aren't helping, nor does the fact that she's standing next to Marilyn Monroe. Having said that, Vivien's face is still lovely and she looks slender compared to Marilyn.

by Anonymousreply 368October 22, 2019 3:46 AM

Pierre Balmain blouse of Vivien's, sold at auction in 2017.

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by Anonymousreply 369October 22, 2019 3:56 AM

They offered the role to Lucy , with Vivian As Stella and Gale Gordon as Stanley .

by Anonymousreply 370October 22, 2019 4:37 AM

They offered the role to Lucy , with Vivian As Stella and Gale Gordon as Stanley .

by Anonymousreply 371October 22, 2019 4:37 AM

Dear Datalounge:

BUT 'CHA ARE BLANCHE, YA ARE!!!

Seriously, half the posters here ARE Blanche DuBois; both living in a genteel dream world, and desperately cock-hungry.

by Anonymousreply 372October 22, 2019 7:05 AM

[quote]living in a genteel dream world, and desperately cock-hungry

I find nothing wrong with either of those pursuits R372. In fact, I'm redoing my schedule for this afternoon.

by Anonymousreply 373October 22, 2019 11:22 AM

David Niven's short story about Vivien's breakdown gives some further insight about why she may have preferred the theatre. The stage is more forgiving to aging than the cinema camera.

by Anonymousreply 374October 22, 2019 12:01 PM

R362, while it may be true that in their day Olivier racked up more awards than did Leigh, with GWTW and Streetcar in her corner, Vivien Leigh wins the only contest that matters. Her biggest films were, and to this day remain, bigger than anything Olivier ever did.

Slow and steady wins the race. Olivier will always have his place in history, but his films are fixed in the past. And aging fast. GWTW and Streetcar have never lost their place in the present. They are screened, restored, repackaged, marketed and are passionately loved by their audiences. Olivier does not have that.

by Anonymousreply 375October 22, 2019 12:22 PM

I hardly think Brando dominates Streetcar the way he did on stage. Over time Leigh has become renowned as giving the best performance in the film. She gets the most poetic lines in the film and delivers them with such beauty and power they strike one with the nakedness of her brutal honesty when she momentarily comes out of her delusional behavior but she makes them part of the whole character. I don't put much store in Oscars but Brando was the only one not to get one. And for the time it was an interesting statement despite his popularity in the film.

by Anonymousreply 376October 22, 2019 12:48 PM

The Motion Picture Academy is not a groundbreaking organization. The members celebrate themselves. Brando was far, far, ahead of their curve. Malden, Hunter, and Leigh all give solid performances, but they are traditional performances. Brando was doing something the members of the Academy had not yet begun to understand. Combine that with the fact that Humphrey Bogart won for The African Queen. He was a hugely popular HOLLYWOOD actor in a hugely popular film.

by Anonymousreply 377October 22, 2019 1:45 PM

Vivien at 50....

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by Anonymousreply 378October 22, 2019 1:59 PM

Ive always thought Olivier was an overblown ham who deliberately sabotaged Leighs film career because he knew that she could easily leave him in the dust had she focused on it instead of trying to conquer stage work. I couldnt stand Olivier in anything he ever did,and except for Marathon Man and Wuthering Heights I couldnt name a movie of his .Leigh could have easily been a superstar had she not been in love with his hammy bi sexual ass.

by Anonymousreply 379October 22, 2019 3:55 PM

Leigh has already "won" the search for relevancy for Streetcar and Gone With the Wind alone. She'll always be seen and talked about as long as films exist. This is why stage actors are sometimes forgotten because, as brilliant as they were in their time, there aren't usually a lot of records of their performances. Cast recordings of musicals sometimes help or maybe some Tony awards footage, but most stage shows aren't preserved for the general public the ways films are.

by Anonymousreply 380October 22, 2019 4:55 PM

[quote]r376 Over time Leigh has become renowned as giving the best performance in the film. She gets the most poetic lines in the film and delivers them with such beauty and power they strike one with the nakedness of her brutal honesty

Says who? She does a good, professional job, no doubt, but there's no immediacy about her performance. Leigh was a very technical actress who never altered a thing once she froze it in rehearsal. She seems more alive in GWTW, I think because she had the wildness of youth on her side, she was fervently committed, and the character of Scarlett fit her so well. In just about everything else, tho, she's almost stifflingly poised...like a museum piece.

And she's always struck me that way as Blanche, too. The performance is well conceived, she's dotted all its i's and crossed its t's...but it feels somewhat detached and musty to me. She did a better job than I or practically anyone else here would have done, and for that she deserves credit. But, well...I've seen better. Don't know that it deserves the raves some stans are tossing on it here.

I wonder what Kate Winslet would have been like, if she ever tackled it.

by Anonymousreply 381October 22, 2019 7:50 PM

Vivien Leigh was truly tragic. Here's this very talented, very intelligent, very beautiful woman who marries this incredibly talented, handsome, revered actor (at the time they were considered a perfect couple). She seemingly had it all. And as it turns out she's destroyed by mental illness and dies of tuberculosis at age 53. What a cruel twist of fate, to have all that, and yet be afflicted by a condition that ruined everything.

by Anonymousreply 382October 22, 2019 8:19 PM

R382, were you anywhere near NYC, SF, or LA, during the 80s and 90s?

by Anonymousreply 383October 22, 2019 8:33 PM

[quote]r382 And as it turns out she's destroyed by mental illness and dies of tuberculosis at age 53.

Hmmm, kind of like how she destroyed the lives of her own husband and Olivier's first wife (not to mention their collective children) when she went after Olivier?

Karma's a bitch.

by Anonymousreply 384October 22, 2019 8:39 PM

Oh. Poor, helpless Olivier.

by Anonymousreply 385October 22, 2019 8:40 PM

"Were you anywhere near NYC, SF, or LA, during the 80s and 90s?"

Oh, I'm sure a lot of people during that time, some with talent, suffered misfortune (self-inflicted, a lot of it) and died prematurely. But this is VIVIEN LEIGH. I'd say she was a special case of how someone with the world at her feet can descend into hell. And it wasn't her fault. She didn't kill herself with drugs or alcohol. It was just the luck of the draw that she would have such a profound, crippling mental illness, the effects of which eventually did her in. Oh, I know she died of tuberculosis. But I don't think she would have if she hadn't been bi-polar. I don't think Oliveir would have left her if she hadn't been bi-polar.

by Anonymousreply 386October 22, 2019 9:23 PM

Vivien's issues predate her success, do they not?

by Anonymousreply 387October 22, 2019 9:31 PM

I don’t know if she was an alcoholic but Leigh definitely had a drinking problem. Noel Coward mentions Vivien’s excessive drinking in his diaries. Nobody seems to have spotted that she may have been drinking to self-treat her psychological distress; instead they just attribute her erratic behavior to alcohol.

by Anonymousreply 388October 22, 2019 9:34 PM

[quote]r387 Vivien's issues predate her success, do they not?

Mmmmm, I don't know that I've ever read that. She was a homewrecker and an indifferent parent, but that's not unheard of amongst performers.

by Anonymousreply 389October 22, 2019 9:41 PM

[quote]r388 Nobody seems to have spotted that she may have been drinking to self-treat her psychological distress

Or, she was just a drunk partygirl by nature.

by Anonymousreply 390October 22, 2019 9:42 PM

"Vivien's issues predate her success, do they not? "

No, not really. Bipolar disorder is a bitch in that it sneaks up on people, it doesn't really become disabling until they're adults with children and careers that will be affected by the illness. Leigh was stable enough in her twenties, well, maybe she had periods where she was more or less sparkling than usual and she did like a drink or ten. Her symptoms didn't become seriously disabling until her later thirties or forties, when she was hospitalized more than once, and Olivier made a run for it. And David Niven wrote about one of her worst breakdowns in one of his autobiographies, which BTW is quite the harrowing chapter.

The tuberculosis seems to have been sheer bad luck, though. Nothing to do with her mental illness as far as anyone knows.

by Anonymousreply 391October 22, 2019 11:45 PM

[quote]except for Marathon Man and Wuthering Heights I couldnt name a movie of his.

It isn't hard to name some Olivier films. Just start with Shakespeare and go from there: Hamlet, Henry V, Richard III, Othello...

by Anonymousreply 392October 23, 2019 1:32 AM

One of my favorite performances by Olivier was Archie Rice in "The Entertainer." He was so brilliant in that. He was perfect, really.

by Anonymousreply 393October 23, 2019 1:37 AM

Don't forget his towering achievement, playing General Douglas MacArthur in INCHON (1981)

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by Anonymousreply 394October 23, 2019 1:40 AM

Yeah, but I had the last laugh over all of them!

by Anonymousreply 395October 23, 2019 1:41 AM

R379 I'm glad you're happy to expose your ignorance in a public place. But there's a lot of one-eyed monocultural ignorance on display here in the last day.

Vivien was primarily an ornamental movie star; she was a wife to a cultural icon who was expected to act as a semi-regal Ambassador for English culture. Both she and her husband toured the US and Australia taking English writers to a wider public. They appeared together at the Festival of Britain.

(The Rainier family objected to Grace Kelly returning to La-La Land to play Marnie the thief and I —as a Briton— objected to Vivien Leigh taking the dirty road and playing a series of adulterous alcoholics.)

by Anonymousreply 396October 23, 2019 1:49 AM

Nonsense. Scarlett O'Hara and Blance DuBois are far too strong charatcers for the actress who played them to be dismissed as ornamental.

by Anonymousreply 397October 23, 2019 1:53 AM

Vivien used to gargle with perfume. That's hardcore.

by Anonymousreply 398October 23, 2019 2:01 AM

R397 Scarlett O'Hara may be described as strong characters but Blanche was a floozy.

Young Vivien had a natural, ornamental lustre and she was coached by experts including George Cukor. Can you imagine the mess that GWTW would have been with horse-faced Sullivan or fat-faced Turner or tin-voiced Goddard, acid-voiced Hepburn or the congenitally-misbehaving Davis?

by Anonymousreply 399October 23, 2019 2:16 AM

Sorry, R396, but your analysis will never hold up under scrutiny. Leigh was every bit Olivier's equal on film and probably his better.

by Anonymousreply 400October 23, 2019 2:28 AM

Yeah, but did our Vivien get an theater award named after her? I think not!

by Anonymousreply 401October 23, 2019 2:41 AM

One thing that hampered Leigh's Hollywood career was the many nude photos she posed for while in manic stages.

L.B. Mayer, for one, was having [italic]none of it!

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by Anonymousreply 402October 23, 2019 2:47 AM
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by Anonymousreply 403October 23, 2019 2:48 AM
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by Anonymousreply 404October 23, 2019 2:50 AM
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by Anonymousreply 405October 23, 2019 2:55 AM

Vivien Leigh and Laurence Olivier did a stage version of "Romeo and Juliet." You would think they would have been perfect for their roles, but it was a disaster, very panned. Odd that it was such a failure, considering that they were lovers in real life.

by Anonymousreply 406October 23, 2019 3:10 AM

[quote]If you read between the lines in the movie while Blanche is talking about her young husband who killed himself years ago you pick up that he was gay and found life insufferable back in the day. Very touching and sad.

But the play version of that scene doesn't require you to read between the lines. Blanche tells Mitch that she walked in on her husband making love with an older man.

[quote]Jessica was 39 when she played Blanche. That's 4 years older than Vivien. But I reckon Blanche was much older than 39.

Not four years older than Vivien, about two years older.

[quote]There was just never a role as suited to an actor as Stanley and Brando. How the hell did John C. Reilly play that part?

Very badly, without an ounce of sexual charisma. I always thought he got the part because many actors are understandably wary of taking on the challenge of going up against memories of Brando.

by Anonymousreply 407October 23, 2019 3:18 AM

R406 ... 'very panned"…

by Anonymousreply 408October 23, 2019 3:19 AM

No Leigh is far beyond Brando. She is now what gives the movie its greatness. Brando was interesting for his time but go back to Muni in Scarface for a truly breakout performance by a male actor the likes of which had never been seen before.

To call Leigh merely professional means you haven't seen many movies.

by Anonymousreply 409October 23, 2019 4:08 AM

Was Muni sexy in Scarface?

How come Muni suddenly retired?

by Anonymousreply 410October 23, 2019 4:27 AM

Muni was a Commie.

He went to Italy to make this trash thriller for 2 other exiled Commies Joseph Losey and Bernard Vorhaus.

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by Anonymousreply 411October 23, 2019 4:42 AM

Let me rephrase the question R392,name anyone under 80 who knows who Shakespeare is . Talk about some boring shit !

by Anonymousreply 412October 23, 2019 4:49 AM

I can see, R412, that you stated your boundaries. Are you by chance Nico Tortorella?

by Anonymousreply 413October 23, 2019 6:02 AM

R412, please reconsider your choice to post publicly, at least until you have finished high school.

by Anonymousreply 414October 23, 2019 11:57 AM

I saw Scarface in some rep theatre in Paris when I was a teen. That movie is raw, violent, darkly glamorous and sexy as fuck. I can't think of any movie that did it better, to this day.

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by Anonymousreply 415October 23, 2019 12:24 PM

[Quote] Not four years older than Vivien, about two years older.

Viven was 35 when the London production of Streetcar opened. She turned 36 the month after the opening.

by Anonymousreply 416October 23, 2019 12:33 PM

If Vivien had stayed in Hollywood and fulfilled her contract with Selznick, not only would she have made more A-list pictures and kept Hollywood on her side, she also would have lived longer. Returning to wartime Britain with Larry and spending the war enduring the cold and deprivation did a number on her looks and her health.

by Anonymousreply 417October 23, 2019 2:36 PM

[quote]Viven was 35 when the London production of Streetcar opened. She turned 36 the month after the opening.

I was referring to Vivien's age in the movie as compared to Ann-Margret's age in the TV movie.

[quote]Returning to wartime Britain with Larry and spending the war enduring the cold and deprivation did a number on her looks and her health.

But how much cold and deprivation did Vivien and Larry personally experience during the war? I guess you were joking.

by Anonymousreply 418October 23, 2019 2:51 PM

[Quote] If Vivien had stayed in Hollywood and fulfilled her contract with Selznick, not only would she have made more A-list pictures and kept Hollywood on her side, she also would have lived longer.

Read the David Niven chapter on Viven's breakdown and you'll revise that opinion.

by Anonymousreply 419October 23, 2019 2:59 PM

R418, they endured quite a lot. They spent much of the war touring England with a theater show meant to help the masses with morale. Conditions in the hinterlands were often primitive: in particular, the cold and damp wreaked havoc on her lungs, which were never strong. Even landed aristocrats in England endured deprivations during the war, and Larry and Viv weren't that. Had she stayed in warm and sunny LA, she'd have been much better off.

by Anonymousreply 420October 23, 2019 3:45 PM

The breakdown Niven recalls happened in 1953, after the war and the deprivations which affected both Vivien's physical and mental health.

by Anonymousreply 421October 23, 2019 3:48 PM

[Quote] The breakdown Niven recalls happened in 1953, after the war and the deprivations which affected both Vivien's physical and mental health.

The story is in two parts. It doesn't just cover the breakdown.

by Anonymousreply 422October 23, 2019 3:50 PM

R419, I think Leigh's first truly serious breakdown was when she was shooting "Elephant Walk" in 1953 or 1954, and was replaced by Liz Taylor. I believe she was functional enough during the 1940s, and it really is a shame that she didn't make more films during those years, when her beauty was at its height and her talent glowed brightly.

Still, I don't know that the life of a Hollywood movie star would have been better for her than the life she actually lived. Actors who signed studio contracts ground out movie after movie regardless of their health, and didn't get to pick their projects, and if they got tired then Dr. Feelgood was brought in to give them something to pep them up. Life in Hollywood probably would have aggravated her mental issues, not helped them!

It was her choice to live in England during the roughest years, and I honor her for that. I just wish she'd made more British films, instead of doing theater. By all accounts, she was better on film than on the stage.

by Anonymousreply 423October 23, 2019 3:52 PM

[Quote] Still, I don't know that the life of a Hollywood movie star would have been better for her than the life she actually lived. Actors who signed studio contracts ground out movie after movie regardless of their health, and didn't get to pick their projects, and if they got tired then Dr. Feelgood was brought in to give them something to pep them up. Life in Hollywood probably would have aggravated her mental issues, not helped them!

The Niven story gets into all that - the dream factory life. Though I think the "Missy" character is an amalgamation and not solely Leigh.

by Anonymousreply 424October 23, 2019 3:57 PM

In his diaries Noel Coward shows more sympathy towards Olivier than Vivien, but even he acknowledged that Vivien would benefit from having a success of her own in the theatre independent from her husband, who invariably overshadowed her when they worked together. Like other posters I cannot help wondering if this was deliberate on Olivier’s part.

by Anonymousreply 425October 23, 2019 3:58 PM

R423, Vivien’s problems started much earlier than the 1950s. She took an overdose of sleeping pills during the production of GWTW. I have read that her first major breakdown occurred while she was shooting [italic]Caesar and Cleopatra[/italic]. Vivien suffered a miscarriage during the film and it set off a precipitous decline in her mental health.

by Anonymousreply 426October 23, 2019 4:05 PM

How much of it all was Danny Kaye’s fault, that’s what I want to know. G-damn homowrecker.

by Anonymousreply 427October 23, 2019 4:12 PM

R427 = Idiot post

R425 You cannot help wondering WHAT was deliberate on Olivier’s part?

What is the nature of your accusation?

by Anonymousreply 428October 23, 2019 8:35 PM

I wonder how Danny Kaye insinuated himself into the Olivier's lives.

Anne Edwards reports that Leigh had a talk with Lynn Fontaynne once, and they agreed they'd prefer their husbands have affairs with men rather than women, as neither felt they'd want to compete with another female.

The idea of hyperkinetic Kaye chasing Larry is just so grubby, somehow. But his agression is something Larry apparently found attractive...just as he found the same quality attractive in his wife, Vivien.

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by Anonymousreply 429October 23, 2019 9:05 PM

R429 Complete codswallop!

The American, David Daniel Kaminsky, was in London in January 1955 doing ONE charity show singing and dancing in ONE number with John Mills and Olivier. The money from this ONE performance called "Night of 100 Stars" went ti the Actors Orphanage.

This ONE number required ONE rehearsal.

Anything else is muck-raking speculation.

by Anonymousreply 430October 23, 2019 9:14 PM

Muck raking speculation? What's the muck?

by Anonymousreply 431October 23, 2019 9:20 PM

"I wonder how Danny Kaye insinuated himself into the Olivier's lives."

He was a very talented, amusing man, a star. Maybe they LIKED him. At any rate, where the the rumor of Olivier and Kaye having a passionate affair come from? Donald Spoto? He's not exactly the most credible source.

by Anonymousreply 432October 23, 2019 9:21 PM

New-created lies about dead people is my definition of "muck".

Spoto is the epitome of MUCK.

by Anonymousreply 433October 23, 2019 9:23 PM

One can one say? Ollie liked gingers!

by Anonymousreply 434October 23, 2019 9:48 PM

Joan Plowright acknowledged Olivier's bisexual affairs, herself.

[italic]"If a man is touched by genius, he is not an ordinary person. He doesn't lead an ordinary life. He has extremes of behaviour which you understand and you just find a way not to be swept overboard by his demons. You kind of stand apart. You continue your own work and your absorption in the family. And those other things finally don't matter."[/italic]

Wanting more detail, his official biographer, Terry Coleman, asked Plowright if Olivier had had homosexual affairs, and she replied: "If he did, so what?"

When Plowright's son wanted any reference to bisexuality striken from Coleman's book, she told him, "a man who had been to Eton and in the Guards might be expected to be a little more broad-minded".

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by Anonymousreply 435October 23, 2019 10:00 PM

"Though I think the "Missy" character is an amalgamation and not solely Leigh. "

Yes, the character of "Missy" in Niven's book was a mashup of at least two actresses. There were two chapters about her, and the first was about the life of a top studio actress whose life seems totally glamorous from a distance, but up close it's all doing without sleep and wondering if the live-in boyfriend is cheating. The first chapter was IMHO largely based on Loretta Young, who was a friend of Niven's, and whose family put him up when he first came to Hollywood. The second chapter about "Missy", the one with the breakdown, is definitely about the time he stayed with Leigh during a serious manic episode.

And BTW one of the things that stood out in the first chapter about "Missy" is that nobody ever let her get any sleep, and FYI sleeplessness can help trigger manic episodes.

by Anonymousreply 436October 23, 2019 10:32 PM

Loretta Young was so cold and self centered she never missed a wink of sleep in her life.

by Anonymousreply 437October 23, 2019 10:41 PM

[quote]And BTW one of the things that stood out in the first chapter about "Missy" is that nobody ever let her get any sleep.

Whatever do you mean by "nobody ever let her get any sleep?" Can you explain?

by Anonymousreply 438October 24, 2019 3:30 AM

RIP to Dame Olivia, who turned down this terrific role.

Vivien was perfection though.

by Anonymousreply 439July 28, 2020 12:49 AM

Ugh, couldn't they have found a talented actress from the southern U.S. to play the role? Why do they allow English actresses to steal jobs from Americans?

by Anonymousreply 440July 28, 2020 12:54 AM
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