Doesn't It Make You Want To Move To California As Soon As Possible!

Trump

800,000 people temporarily without power to forestall catastrophic wildfires out of a total population of 32 million. Yeah, those dopey libs in Cali.

Fucking troll asshole.

We used to lose power temporarily all the time in Summer Storms. It was fun.

It was in New England.

Any time! CA is always better the best shithole town in the godgorsaken Deep South.

Look shithead R2, I am as much a liberal as you, probably more. Don't be such a lunatic reactionary.

A great argument for home solar power, no? The fire danger is in the antiquated distribution system, after all.

R6, is the technology ready?

It's a mature industry, R6. Cost per Watt of installed capability is at historic lows, under a dollar in many cases. It's been held back by the limits of old battery technology, but the widespread use of lithium-ion batteries has solved that problem. Out of pocket costs are low, with lease back programs the norm.

I own my small Renogy system, though, and have seen a significant reduction in power bills, plus I have power outage backup.

I like the occasional blackouts. It definitely forces me to get more of my reading done. LA had a windstorm that knocked out electricity for multiples days -- I'm going to say in 2011 or 2012. First time I saw stars in the LA night sky!

Welcome to bankruptcy in corporate America. Thanks to blaming PG&E for people’s need for electricity at all times in all places, CA has now bankrupted their power supplier. Capitalism and lawyers - the horrors of modern life,

So the State of California is somehow the problem here, R10? Truth: PG&E is bankrupt because they were found the responsible party in the Camp Fire (Paradise, CA), resulting in 67 fatalities and $16.5 billion of destruction. Facts matter.

I was a Peace Corps volunteer in Africa and lived for over a year without running water and steady electricity. It wasn't that bad. Californians will adapt.

I read a lot of classic novels (by candlelight) that have been on my reading list for years.

Not blaming CA. But not sure people understand that they pay for the lawsuits PG&E loses. People blame PG&E - possibly rightfully - but ultimately the residents pay the lawsuits, not PG&E. The screwed up reality of capitalism is the issue. The CEO and all the execs will still make hundreds of thousands a year - no one is held accountable. And ultimately the only people who lose in the lawsuit are the residents of CA who end up paying the settlement.

[quote] The CEO and all the execs will still make hundreds of thousands a year

Off by a factor of 10, r13

I love the Reddit trolls who infest this site being all concern-trolly by claiming to be more liberal than thou, even though they started an obviously trollish thread with an obviously trollish title.

My my R15, is your butthole puckered or what.

It's interesting to watch people here from California (and NYC) who waste no opportunity to trash the majority of the other states in the nation, but God forbid anyone should say a word that might be taken as a negative against their states. They can dish it out, but just can't take it.

R17, some of us don't trash other states and also don't act like California is some garden of paradise. This place has its pros/cons and challenges just like any other place. There is no Garden of Eden on earth.

People might start talking to each other again.

That dry, warm, strange north wind is blowing again, the wind that's knocked down power lines the last couple of falls and which blew sparks up into firestorms almost instantaneously. I don't remember that wind from the 20th century, I think it's come with climate change, and it's going to be a danger to everyone in dry areas from now on.

I've been campaigning for PG&E to bury power lines in the most vulnerable areas, as downed power lines have been behind the most dangerous recent fires. This is their response - just cut power when the wrong wind blows. Yeah, instead of providing safe power as is their mandate, they come up with a solution that costs them nothing and which inconveniences millions. Fuck them!

Oh gawd if any state in the union gets slammed, on DL and anywhere else in the US discourse, it's NYC, California and maybe Chicago. "East coast elites" and whatnot get regularly mocked. No one outside of DL mocks the unwashed deplorables.

Exactly, r20. The power lines should have been buried long ago.

So is the plan to cut the power every year whenever the winds blow? So that for a few months of every year there will just be constant blackouts? How is this sustainable?

[quote]Oh gawd if any state in the union gets slammed, on DL and anywhere else in the US discourse, it's NYC, California and maybe Chicago.

Chicago and NYC are states?

R23 - they ought to be.

I wouldn’t have a problem with it if literally EVERYTHING didn’t rely on power. How are people going to keep their food fresh? Wtf

There needs to be a backup, or a new better way to get power to the citizens. It’s up to California now to make the change.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

This is interesting, the looting that happened in one place in California during a planned blackout. Will this result in more people buying guns to protect themselves if home and business security systems don't work?

The state should be forced to subsidize the purchase of solar panels for people in that part of the state. Not just with tax credits, but with actual money for the purchase.

This is the kind of shit happening in Venezuela. At what point do you realize paying six figures on rent and living in third world conditions is a joke, on you?

Exactly, r29. I was just reading r27's article and thinking - this is the third world. But in a place with the some of the most expensive cost of living, and the highest taxes, of anywhere in the first world.

It's nothing short of insane.

Two million had the lights turned out.

The Democratic governor, who on Wednesday called the blackouts “appropriate under the circumstances,” took a dramatically harsher tone Thursday, blaming PG&E for not hardening its grid and saying the outage was the result of years of bad choices. His comments came just before PG&E’s chief executive officer made his first public appearance, apologizing to customers for the “hardship” the power failures have caused while defending the decision.

The company said it has restored service to more than half of the customers affected, according to a statement issued at about 11 p.m. local time.

Shares of PG&E plunged on Thursday after the utility was stripped of exclusive control over its bankruptcy process and a judge allowed competing plans from wildfire victims and bondholders to advance. The surprise led Citi analysts to cut the stock to sell and warn there’s a 75% chance the shares could fall to zero.

It's more than an inconvenience , we use electricity for everything. We found out during a blackout, water was unavailable . I still don't understand why. Imagine going without running water for three days. I know that sounds like heaven for some of you greasy, funky asses. But for everyone else? It was more than an inconvenience .

Also, no wifi during a blackout. Think about it. NO FUCKING WIFI.

Lived in Southern California most of my life. Moved away a few years ago. Dont miss it one bit. Beautiful state but too overcrowded and expensive. The politics are insane as well. The wildfires are pretty much the icing on the cake

Now, a major fire in the LA area.

Are the wild fires even a result of electrical factors?

The fires were started by people making fires to boil some hot water and cook dinner but that's not PG&E's doing.

A friend of min in SAC says he has SMUD instead of PG&E and SMUD isn't doing the blackouts. If they operate in pretty much the same areas, why would one need to do it it prevent fires and the other one doesn't?

r33 What insane politics? Can you provide an example?

Without constant upgrading and improvements to the country's infrastructure whether its bridges, dams or electrical grid, ongoing neglect by the mostly privatized companies is a recipe for disaster.

Just the tip of the iceberg.

Improvements and vigilance interfere with the profit margins.

It was windy as FUCK yesterday... some of the worst we've had this year from what I can remember... though wind can be notoriously destructive down here. It's cooled off, but it's still rather hot and dry out there, so it's not surprising that all these wildfires have started. Saddens me every year though.

I have lived in SoCa my entire adult life. These dry powerful winds blowing in off the desert have ALWAYS been part of life here certain times of year (October in particular). I don't remember the cause of any of the wildfires in this part of the state being related to downed power lines. The most common known cause has been arson, or basic carelessness. In these weather conditions, a very small incident can explode very quickly because it's so dry.

Having the utility companies unilaterally decide to just shut off the electricity every time we have this normal weather pattern is INSANE. It almost feels like they're doing it in spite to make a point, due to being blamed for one of the major fires in NorCa last year. That's the first of these major fires I remember being blamed on utility lines (but I could be wrong of course).

Good news, Cali. Having electricity may not be that important. After all, Drocella Yandereye of Rwanda gets along fine without the grid:

THOUGH SHE lives in one of the world’s poorest countries, Drocella Yandereye is a picture of upward mobility. Her small farm in Rwanda, where she grows maize, beans, bananas and coffee, is thriving. She has built a new house and turned her old one into a chicken shed. Her interests range well beyond her village, evidenced by the two posters on her living-room wall showing African leaders and the countries of the world. What makes her even more unusual is that she has electric light.

It is not the kind of bright, leave-it-on light that people in rich countries take for granted. A small solar panel on Ms Yandereye’s roof is connected to a wall-mounted battery, which powers a radio and three LED ceiling lamps. Ms Yandereye also uses the battery to charge her mobile phone and a portable lamp that she hangs around her neck. All the lamps are rather dim. But they produce just enough light to allow her children to study after sunset, and they do not kick out foul fumes, like the kerosene lamps she used to depend on.

.....

Not surprisingly, people enjoy having even small amounts of electricity. Ms Yandereye, who bought her lamps from One Acre Fund, a charity, says that her neighbours admire them. She has found uses for the power. She uses a portable lamp to get to her local church at night and another to light her chicken shed. Two years ago, her chickens caught a disease. Now that they have a light, she can keep the door closed, which she hopes will protect them.

........

Electrification may bring benefits that economic studies miss. Robin Burgess of the IGC argues that a short-run study of households may not be the right lens: electrification might mostly benefit businesses, and not at once. Moreover, countries will have to bring power to their people eventually. But to spend a lot of scarce cash doing so now, in the hope that benefits will turn up, hardly seems enlightened.

Somebody just died because of PGE's outage. His oxygen shut off 12 minutes after their outage began.

Why on earth would someone who needs oxygen to live not have a backup tank in case the electricity went out? Why didn't someone call 911 when the power went off so they could get someone out there to help him?

He had oxygen, r44, just that his system relied on electricity to work. He probably did call 911, if he had a landline. Mobile phone signals often go down during a power outage.

And also, if you think that 911 arrives in anything like 12 minutes in California, you've never lived in California. Not even in urban areas is that time frame realistic, and I believe this happened in a rural area.

I won't mock them. I'm not mean, and those people are suffering.

R20 we have always had those winds. They have always started fires. Oct is famous for those winds. I have been seeing them all my life and I am 70. The problem is that PGE hasn't fixed its infrastructure. They have let it go for years. Also, our hillsides are extremely dry and we have 147 million dead trees in the sierra and other hillside communities. Any little spark can start a fire. In years past it wasn't so dry especially northern Ca but we always had fires in southern ca they just were not so hot.

[quote] He had oxygen, [R44], just that his system relied on electricity to work

I know that. That's why I said why didn't he have a backup tank for emergencies like a power outage. My mother was on an electric oxygen generator the last 3 months of her life and the company that supplied that system also made sure she always had a backup tank.

R41 out of 2000 fires PGE was the cause of 1500 of them. They have to pay out 11 billion in claims. I doubt they will fix things soon. They are now in bankruptcy.

Agreed, r47. It's a combination of lack of PGE infrastructure along with the fact that the underbrush used to be cleared every year and now is simply left to pile up, year after year, for some ecological-related reason (I think the argument is that wildlife is disrupted by the act of clearing underbrush). The combination means that every year from here on in there will be a major, uncontrollable fire, when that was not always the case.

R2 No, not 32 mil... CA population in 2019 is 39.75 million.

PGE has been woefully mismanaged for some time. For many years huge profits paid to institutional stockholders (Abrams, Vanguard, Baupost, Anchorage, Blackrock..) rather than plowed into research to make lines safer... especially in those vulnerable areas (forest etc.) where development exploded. No anticipation of the weather conditions resulting from climate change.

And CA politics? You mean the fact that the state budget not only is balanced, and even putting billions into a rainy day fund for the next economic downturn? Can we talk about Kansas politics (bankrupting the state) or federal (federal dept increasing in the last two years at record rates)? Thank you Brownback. Thank you Trump.

2018 was caused by a down power line and they had an 11 billion dollar insurance settlement, that is why this precaution

A for Jerry Brown he didn't FIX anything. CA did have a large deficit, which he solved by added taxes to the very rich. Add to that the expanding economy of SF (which supplied most of the surplus) and that is how the situation came about.

That's like being $10,000 in debt, having your boss give you a one time bonus of $15,000 and saying, 'I'm 5,000 ahead, I fixed it.'

No you did not. Every problem that caused the issue is still there. For instance CA still has nearly 200 billion in unfunded pension debt that does not appear on the books, because it's not being accrued for. This is situation exists in a lot of other states too. But promising people something and not putting it on the books isn't a good strategy

While Brown's rainy day fund is better than nothing, it also leaves out recent expansion of the constitutional addition of spending for students and expansion of CA medicaid to illegals.

It's like an aunt of mine found out she'll have over 5 million when her husband dies, then realized he's $10 million in debt now.

R52 If we had a Republican leg and governor we'd have all the same obligations, but tax cuts for the very rich would explode the deficit. That's the only truth about Republican "fiscal responsibility"... when democrats are in charge rate of debt obligations reduce, when republican are in charge, they rise. However you choose to discount it, we have a balanced budget and are building a reserve currently at 18 billion. Track what happened under Deukmejian and Wilson (that sank and recalled Davis) and then expanded deficits with Arnold... and then get back to me.

R38, sure. Where do I start? Well, we have a thing for electing movie actors as governor, who then tend to epically fuck things up for the state. The state was in so much debt after Arnie’s time in office. Lots of layoffs, furloughs, museums and monuments closed due to lack of budget, and state-issued IOUs bc we were flat broke. Jerry fixed it and did a great job getting us back to a budget surplus but there was some real trouble after Last Action Hero’s stint. Even worse was Reagan. Some might disagree with me, but the disintegration of California’s once-great public education system, the mental health/homeless crisis and migrant crisis had their roots with Reagan as governor. Then you have a regulatory system which is just a complete mess. Lots of poorly written and conflicting rules, and well meaning but overburdened state agencies unable to sort it out properly. This impacts businesses’ (especially small businesses who do not have the capital to absorb resulting regulatory or litigation risk) ability to cost effectively operate in the state. We have some greatly well intentioned laws regulations and agencies particularly those surrounding the environment. However, the air, water and ground pollution is still absolutely a mess. True the snog is not bad as it once was. But the environmental problems in the state are still very bad and the government has failed to fix it. Then you have the swath of NIMBY liberals running around who want to vote democrat so they can sleep at night but live behind high gates and god forbid you suggest affordable housing anywhere near where they live (even though there is a housing and homeless crisis in the state). The zoning laws are a mess. Some of the best judges in the US sit in California state and federal courts, but some of the rulings are astoundingly bad and inconsistent with the laws at issue (activist judiciary turning facts into a result they want, even if it is inconsistent with the laws). Beyond that it is effing crowded and expensive and the infrastructure has never kept up with the population.

California is the greatest state in the union! You flyovers are just jealous you can't afford to live here.

R54 Nothing there addressing the points raised. Nothing of substance to address, other than we agree that aging actors becoming Governors were disastrous for the state. Pretty expected anti-progressive canards. So, now I know your perspective, I'll just wish you well... Mendocino is pretty in the fall.

Thanks, no shade from me; have a good evening!

The only place I'd live in CA is the northern part on the ocean.

My sister is trapped under this right now. She lives in Napa and says it may go on all week.

It is strange that in all other areas of the country, electricity seems to get delivered under the most hostile weather patterns. I have lived in California for two years now. What I have observed. The electricity grid here is insane. Old poles, leaning, poles that look like they have been here from the turn of the century are the norm. The freeways are actually garbage dumps. It takes them YEARS to do things that would take months in Arizona. They have been working on one stretch of the I-10 for the entire time I have lived here. Still not completed.

This is a place where the landed gentry have the non-house owners hostage, and they will not allow anything to be built. Nothing. If you go to Phoenix, it is like they are building everything at once. Here an apartment building here and there is under construction.

Nothing gets done here. Nothing gets completed. Nothing gets built here unless it is a three million dollar home in a gated community. PG&E is a terrible company that squandered all the money for maintaining lines and hardening the electric grid on bonuses, big salaries, and other shit. I have no sympathy for them, and they should be taken over and all the stockholders wiped out.

r47, why the fuck don't timber companies cut down those 147 million trees, use the wood for paper and other wood products, and then plant new ones in their place?

[quote] Not blaming CA. But not sure people understand that they pay for the lawsuits PG&E loses. People blame PG&E - possibly rightfully - but ultimately the residents pay the lawsuits, not PG&E. The screwed up reality of capitalism is the issue. The CEO and all the execs will still make hundreds of thousands a year - no one is held accountable. And ultimately the only people who lose in the lawsuit are the residents of CA who end up paying the settlement.

Are you retarded? I'm asking because you seem to be retarded. We got your point the very first sentence. You didn't need to post it 2 more times. And PG&E has insurance to deal with these things

The can't cut down the trees and replant, r62, or - and this is crucial - even clear clear the dead underbrush (read: tinder) as they used to, because of additional environmental laws.

The irony here is that this expands the scope of the fires we have now by multitudes, and the carbon emissions released into the air by these now annual mega-fires themselves is astronomical. It's an unbelievably illogical situation, really.

Add in r61's all too correct assessment that PG& E flatly refuses to maintain electrical delivery systems properly, inclding their resistance at many calls to bury their antiquated, 3rd world electrical wires, and you have a state full of dried tinder dotted every 50 feet with a potential spark. Add the high winds which come every autumn, and there you go: inevitable fire. Only question is where this year, how big this year and how many this year.

Real people lose real homes and real businesses - and sometimes their lives - through this insanity. I am in California right now and looking to sell my apt here and go back to the UK full time. Britain is insane but it's got NOTHING on California. California's system is unsustainable.

R47

Environmentalists have blocked all attempts to remove deadwood.

Blame them AND PG&E!

I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic, r66, but, as an environmentally-minded person, I'm sorry to say that yes, it is a result of wrong-headed environmental rules and of PG & E's malfeasance. And people lose their homes every year, and no one does anything to stop it. It's fucking appalling.

AND government malfeasance - forgot to add that

Yes, R67

Allowing dead trees to be logged each year would stop most of the wildfires.

Common sense!

Absolutely agreed, r69. But sadly, common sense is very thin on the ground when it comes to governance in California.

Left California 13 years ago and haven’t been back even once since.

Where did you end up, r71?

Native Californian here--yes, PG&E has been mind-bogglingly negligent, but can we talk about the expanding elephant in the room? Climate change is making wildfires increase substantially and it's only going to get worse. Most insurers are pulling out of anywhere near California forests, and not because of PG &E. Fire insurance in these areas is now either impossible to get or so prohibitively expensive that it may as well be.

Fair enough, r73. Do you not believe that clearing as much deadwood and underbrush as humanly possible is a sensible way to proceed if the area is getting drier? This is how fires were prevented back to the Chumash. I ask because the California government somehow does not believe in clearing the tinder. And to me that is nonsensical, if not criminal. People are losing their homes.

The more dire the climate predictions become, then, logically, the more state government precautions ought to be taken. And yet they are not taken. Ever. Why?

One of the interesting aspects of r73's article is that is points out how the fires have got so much larger and more uncontrollable since 2015. I believe that is down to eco-regulations rather than a great leap in base temperature in the last four years.

All these horrific fires now amount to a kind of horrific vandalism. The fires are utterly preventable and the lack of will to prevent them by those who know exactly how to prevent them - the Vandals - is due to a dire combination of profit, fashion, and malfeasance.

PG&E gave that woman from CSI the cancer and they also threatened Miss Julia Roberts!!!

She's still going, r76

Of course any and all preventive measures should be taken, R74. Cliimate change certainly isn't making things any easier, though, and the scientific research is disturbing. I'm looking to move elsewhere despite having lived in California happily for most of my life.

I'm sorry for you leaving your home, r78. Although I'd wager you wouldn't have to leave your home if there was even one single person not on the take in your local government.

Well anyway, I'm selling up too, but I'm dual and live half the year back in the UK.

Good luck.

[quote] Environmentalists have blocked all attempts to remove deadwood.

It's more than avoiding inconvenience to the spotted owls. Two years ago Trump told California they needed to clear the forests of excess fuel. For that they'll preserve the dead trees and underbrush just out of spite.

I loathe Trump, r80 but if he said that, I agree with him on this one thing. People are losing their homes and then committing suicide after they do. This is no small thing to me. This is SUCH a horrible thing to do to people who are just minding their own business, trying to live a quiet life. It must stop.

Snort--you mean the FEDERAL LANDS where the Paradise fire started for which Trump cut the maintenance budget? How quickly people forget. But, hell, I'll remind you--the feds own a huge chunk of California's forested lands. Trump, of course, is so fucking mentally ill that he keeps trying to punish the state in any way he can--even though the area around Paradise is as red as Wyoming.

But, anyway, southern California has always had the Santa Anas. Northern California has not--and that's climate change. So is the delayed start to the rainy season. When I was a kid, rain started in October or November. Last year, the rain didn't start 'til December. Longer, hotter summers and dead wood from bark-beetle infestation made the state a tinder box. While So Cal has an ecosystem that's reasonably well adapted for fires and long, dry summers, the northern part does not. Lots more trees and, until the last 20 years, snow on the Sierra peaks throughout the year.

PG&E sucks ass--it was found liable not just for the Camp fire, but also at least part of the Santa Rosa/Napa fires and the San Bruno explosion before that. All deadly.

I do think that this outage means people are going to think more seriously about solar power and storage batteries. I knew a lot of people who filled their Prius tanks or charged up their Teslas as a way of being able to keep their cell phones charged.

With all the people leaving the state, it would be nice if our population actually dropped, but that never seems to happen.

To r82's

Para I: So the only dried wood and tinder there originated during the Trump regime? Fuck you for trying to take years of decadence and pretend it's from now.

Para II: My point is that relatively recent eco laws in California have created wildfire conditions.

Are you seriously contesting that?

Para III: Agreed

Para IV: No. Not until there is sufficient evidence that solar is emergency-reliable.

Para V: The whole point of immigration is to boost the economy. Maybe you should move to the sticks if you don't like it.

Also, r82 , to use "Snort" as an expression makes you sound as if you are a midwesten striver who just moved to NYC and still doesn't understand the subtleties...

Yet another California is sinking into the ocean thread by jealous bitches and Deplorables. Meanwhile, hurricanes wipe out Florida, tornadoes wipe out the bible belt, flood destroy countless mobile homes in the Midwest and east coast you go Trump. That's worse than all of those others combined.

What?, r85? What were you trying to say? Come on darlin'. You can say it!

R85, I didn’t realize California had this many tornadoes

Fuck very much off, r87

Sorry, r87, meant to sign: Wildfire Season When People Are Deprived of their Homes

R85, I didn't realize California had this many major floods.

I used to live in Northern California. The earthquakes are bad. (Loma Prieta in 1989 was much worse than merely "bad.") The fires, however, are much, much worse.

California is a grand place to visit. But even that is not without risk. As a place in which to build a life and invest... no fucking way.

So many floods and yet ....

The whole west has similar forest v. people challenges. And remember those huge Texas wildfires in the last decade? Those Texas wildfires are obviously the result of liberal California politics. Part of the problem is continued human development in environments that are not hospitable to it. Humans pushing into forests, building on coasts where there hurricanes, etc. California is more in the news because there are 40 million people living in a number of environments vulnerable to fire.

Fire, by the way, is really an ok thing to forests. It's part of how they stay healthy. The criticism of CA's environmentalist community (above) is mistaken. It's a political/cultural anti-identify politics, hate-the-liberal-elite canard. Environmentalists encourage forest management - selective foresting etc. They just oppose clear-cut logging - a practice that is cost-effective for logging company, but is disastrous to the environment - erosion, wildlife, etc. We need fires.... the problem is that so many people now live in those fires' paths.

And SoCal is used to dry weather, and NorCal isn't, that's why fires are more of problem in the north. R82, R91. Are you high? 5 of the 10 biggest CA fires were in CA - Thomas, Cedar, Zaca etc.

Last, for those who would not want to live in CA - please don't. Have a lovely weekend.

R93, it's hardly business as usual, and that's due to climate change. The days of healthy forest fire containment are behind us. Deforestation has increased alarmingly due to extended drought periods, higher temperatures, proliferation of bark beetles who thrive in droughts, and several other factors related to climate change. That's compounded by the fact carbon emissions increase commensurately with deforestation. Projections/analyses of California's forests at the current rate of consumerism/emissions indicate that over half of the forests will be gone by 2100.

R72 I live in Washington state now and I love it! It’s so beautiful and peaceful.

Yes R66, it's those crazy environmentalists.

" Among other milestones in its sleazy history, PG&E squandered $46 million on an unsuccessful 2010 campaign to write a regional monopoly for itself into the state Constitution, via the ballot measure Proposition 16; engaged in allegedly illegal back-channel contacts with former Public Utilities Commission President Michael Peevey and other PUC officials, compromising the commission’s regulatory work; and diverted some of the $5 million in ratepayer funds earmarked in 2007 for gas infrastructure upgrades into pay raises for top executives instead. The work was never performed, and subsequently, the gas line under San Bruno blew up. Evidence that corporate management really is focused on improving its safety culture remains sketchy and unconvincing."

Having just celebrated my 40th year in SoCal the last few days really have given me pause for thought, especially when we prepped our go bags--we're asking each other if it's really worth it any more to stay here now that we're retired & everything is paid for . . . we're getting increasingly weary of a third-world way of life becoming the norm, from failed infrastructure to outrageous taxes--filled your car lately? It's hurts a lot to think about leaving, since I'm born & raised here, (Napa) but there's got to be a better way . . . my late stepfather was from Philadelphia & I went to school in Washington; we've identified a couple of properties in Berks & Lancaster counties, so may be joining the exodus soon--the Philadelphia Orchestra is one of the hottest orchestras in the world at the moment, so there's that . . . Pennsyltucky here we come . . .

R98, are California politics all talk? I can't imagine how a regulated utility in California can get by with it all.

R99, why not move right into Philly? The neighborhoods around Center City are awesome. The government is totally corrupt. But, happily, it doesn't have as much impact on you as you might think (except the wage tax).

And Philly's so friendly!

𝐂𝐚𝐥𝐢𝐟𝐨𝐫𝐧𝐢𝐚𝐧𝐬 𝐋𝐞𝐚𝐫𝐧𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐓𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐒𝐨𝐥𝐚𝐫 𝐏𝐚𝐧𝐞𝐥𝐬 𝐃𝐨𝐧’𝐭 𝐖𝐨𝐫𝐤 𝐢𝐧 𝐁𝐥𝐚𝐜𝐤𝐨𝐮𝐭𝐬

Californians have embraced rooftop solar panels more than anyone in the U.S., but many are learning the hard way the systems won’t keep the lights on during blackouts.

That’s because most panels are designed to supply power to the grid -- not directly to houses. During the heat of the day, solar systems can crank out more juice than a home can handle. Conversely, they don’t produce power at all at night.

So systems are tied into the grid, and the vast majority aren’t working this week as PG&E Corp. cuts power to much of Northern California to prevent wildfires.

Philly really can be hateful some times. But we have very few earthquakes, wild fires, mudslides, tornadoes, hurricanes, monsoons, etc.

The cold is a bitch, though.

The backup oxygen tanks that don't require electricity have only a fixed amount of oxygen in them, for example 4 hours or whatever. I don't see how they could supply enough tanks for all the patients for even a 24 hour period. It would be a logistics nightmare. The ones that require electricity are "concentrators," which take ordinary air and make it more oxygen-rich, thus they can work endlessly, but they require electricity.

r99 cash in your chips and get top dollar before the bottom falls out.

R102--that's why the key is batteries Tesla has been working on them--they say this one can be used with solar panels and power a house for seven days.

[quote] I have lived in SoCa my entire adult life. These dry powerful winds blowing in off the desert have ALWAYS been part of life here certain times of year (October in particular). I don't remember the cause of any of the wildfires in this part of the state being related to downed power lines.

R41, I think you've got some short-term memory problems, friend! The Woolsey Fire of last year -- which raged through Agoura Hills/ Malibu, consuming 80% of the Santa Monica Mountains National Recreation Area -- was started by downed power lines on the grounds of the old Santa Susana Field Laboratory.

The massive Thomas Fire of 2017, which devastated Ventura Co. & Santa Barbara Co., was also started by power lines during high winds.

An "embercast" being driven downhill by 50-60 mph winds, over the 210 freeway in Sylmar, Thursday night.

I don't know that I've ever heard that word before, but whatever you call it....it's sort of beautiful, mesmerizing and terrifying, all at once!!

At least our buildings don't spontaneously collapse like they do in New Orleans.

Yeah, like Flyoverstan is much better.

But your balconies are deadly, R109

R104 the backup tanks are supposed to keep someone dependent on oxygen from dying until paramedics can get there. Someone in that condition is playing with disaster if they only have a cell phone to maintain contact with the outside world. They should have a 24/7 health monitor, and a landline.

I'm just amazed that so many people with serious health woes choose to live live right on the edge like that.

At least our bridges full of Deplorables are not collapsing R109

Why can’t California just rake the forest floors? tidy up some.

R99, the Philadelphia Orchestra spends every summer in Saratoga, New York. Upstate New York is terrific. Fuck Pennsylvania.

[quote] I'm just amazed that so many people with serious health woes choose to live live right on the edge like that.

Choose, eh?

R112, you get the 2019 Data Lounge Award for Obliviousness. Your statement makes it clear to every reader that you have never known the thick brown taste of poverty. Or want. Or need. People who are dependent on oxygen tanks rarely are able to engage in sufficient employment to actually choose much of anything.

Their medical needs are far to costly to be covered by most people. They are dependent on programs for which they may qualify. They scrape by the best they can and they rarely, if ever, get to choose to have their needs met. Maybe they get met. Maybe they don't. But it's not the person on the oxygen taken making the choices.

[quote] Why can’t California just rake the forest floors? tidy up some.

The state doesn't even have money to keep their roads in good repair in many areas.. Do you actually think they could come up with the money to keep dead brush removed from hundreds of millions of acres of land? Frankly, as one has said previously on this thread, forest fires are supposed to happen to maintain the health of the forests. All that carbon from burned foliage makes the soil incredibly rich and forests grow back greener and stronger after a burning. Of course mother nature relies on things like lightning strikes to do her work. She does not take into consideration that stupid greedy humans have taken over her land and usurped her role of keeping the earth healthy, and doing a pretty shitty job at it. She probably looks at all the people who die in forest fires caused by human stupidity as a benefit. We humans still haven't learned that to anger Mother Nature is to court disaster.

R115, that is an example of the graciousness of Pennsylvania - exporting high art to cultural wastelands like New York.

Pennsylvania graciousness? Oh. My. Sides!

Yes, Pennsylvania-style graciousness extends from cultural mission trips to New York to greeting Santa at Eagles games.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

R106 so that's 2 examples out of the hundreds of fires over the past several decades. That is a small %. Apparently math is not your strong point if that's your argument. Far, far more have been started by arson, carelessness, or just plain stupidity.

R121 Look upthread R51. 5 of the 10 biggest fires in CA history were in SoCal.

The point was around the cause of most fires, not what part of the state the largest ones in history have impacted. Someone is implying downed power lines is the main cause, and that is incorrect.

Here are some statistics on the causes of CA wildfires during the 2013-2017 period, per Cal Fire.

All causes other than Electrical power 90.6% (includes 24.6% "Undetermined")

Electrical power 9.4%

My favorite California winds.

This seems like it’d be a pain

It's also dangerous, r126. People stock up on gasoline in anticipation of the blackouts, and in doing so turning their own garages into potential firebombs. The whole situation is fucking ridiculous.

Efforts to recall California Governor Gavin Newsom are beating expectations, having reached 150,000 signatures three weeks after launching.

According to the petition’s originator, Congressional candidate Erin Cruz, the petition is expected to hit 600,000 signatures by the end of this month. The petition needs to have 1.5 million signatures by February 13, 2020. Cruz is shooting for 2.4 million to make sure enough get certified

[quote] According to the petition’s originator, Congressional candidate Erin Cruz,

Her recall will go nowhere. Republicans are dead in California. They might as well erect a tombstone that says California GOP and place it in a cemetery.

R128 Mrs Cruz is a rabid, extreme Right, Tea-Party (her own claim) nativist who strongly opposes marriage equality and any mention of "sexual orientation" in school curriculum. Her petition is a joke... Newsome will serve 8 years. She suggests that equal rights for gay Americans is a "sham" a "fringe dumbing down of American traditions." California's Phyllis Schlafley. R128, what in hell's name made you think posting about her reactionary BS on DL would be well received.

Every day the situation just gets worse for the California republicans. They really should just quit -- they're embarrassing themselves at this point.

R116.

Where is the money going to?

Cali has the fifth largest economy in the world.

[quote] Where is the money going to?

Jerry Brown wanted to play bullet train. That's a good chuck of it.

In 2012 the Authority re-estimated the project's cost at $53.4 billion (2011$) or $68.4 billion (YOE). In 2018 the Authority pushed estimated costs to between $63.2 billion and $98.1 billion (YOE) and delayed initial service to 2029, with Los Angeles to San Francisco service in 2033.

Boy, you can really tell who trolls and who gets information from Fox News.

The power's back on and, so far, no megafires--the one in SoCal is getting under control.

Gavin Newsom's been busy signing and vetoing bills. As of Sept. 30, his approval rating was 60 percent. Fox viewers, as usual, get a very slanted picture. The GOP has a lot invested in painting as bleak a picture as possible of the state--thus any problems California has are painted as the biggest problems EVER and, of course, caused by the state's politics

Those of us who actually live here know that state politics were way worse when there were still Republicans in power. Not because they were Republicans, but because GOP legislators used their minority status to block everything and anything. It took a Democratic supermajority to get the state moving again--a supermajority, by the way, that was the result of ending gerrymandering.

I don't love everything our legislature does, but it sure beats the stalemate that comes from having Republican extremists stonewalling everything. I particularly love how they screech about high taxes when, of course, it was the Republicans who pushed Prop. 13 that screwed up the state's property-tax base in a way that heavily, heavily favors corporate landlords--that's the group that's really not paying their fair share.

But, as usual, with conservatives--there's lots of blaming the poor and immigrants for anything wrong with their lives. Such fools.

Clearing the dead wood and "tidying" the forest floor degrades soil and forest life (ie kills living trees) and speeds erosion. CA is fucked. The fires are natural to a degree. The drought is man-made, just as any abundance of water in Southern CA is man-made and unnatural. Too many people live here and people live where they shouldn't. I HAVE to live here because my husband's good job is here, but anyone who moves to CA is a fool. There is too much traffic, the state legislature wants to kill single family neighborhoods (to allow more personal development of rental property on single family lots!) among a host of other ills like fire, flood, boorish idiots, and shammy democrats. It's a mess. If I could I'd live where people are polite, there is water, there are real trees -- and people drive reasonably on freeways.

There isn't a drought right now and it's not made in that there are cycles of droughts throughout history in the state, including megadroughts. However, the normal dry season is now longer and hotter thanks to climate change.

Agree about the traffic, though--it's miserable.

[quote] If I could I'd live where people are polite, there is water, there are real trees -- and people drive reasonably on freeways.

Let me know when you find such a place. And it has to have good weather, too.

R135, you complain about traffic and too many people, but you want single-family homes. There simply is not enough room to accommodate every person living here to have a single-family residence. It's neither possible, affordable, nor sustainable. The city needs to create more housing options to accommodate more people, but NIMBY people are an obstacle -- as they always are.

W&W for R134. The poster referencing Tea Party Trumper Erin Cruz was particularly egregious. But as the California GOP dwindles even further, I guess you can expect more desperation tactics and tantrums from this dying state party.

It's also difficult to plan ahead in this environment--we want to do a road trip next week, but the Santa Anas are scheduled to resume on the 20th--will power be out, will there be more fires, etc.? During the Thomas fire, we were aboard Ruby Princess® and had very limited outside contact & were constantly wondering if there would be any home left to return to. Home was still there, but came within FEET of burning things down.

R137 Pretty much anyplace in NorCal outside the biggest cities.

R138 I live in San Diego in a R1- zoned small neighborhood bordered all around by R2-zoned areas. The R2's have apartment complexes and lots with 3 or 4 units crammed on. Where do you think everybody walks? They walk their dogs in my neighborhood. They come for the trees, the quiet, the emptier strees and fewer parked cars, and the beauty. I'm proudly NIMBY when limited minds solve problems using poor solutions. Housing Density is inhuman, and nobody really wants it if they have a choice. Privacy, space, and quiet will be the new luxuries which only the super-rich can afford. AND this is why I do not want to live out my life in San Diego. It's full of people whose only goal in life is "good weather." As if that is the secret of life!

R142 Agreed, you need to leave SD as soon as possible. I suggest Tulsa might be a good place for you.

or Ardmore :)

Ardmore, PA? Howdy neighbor!

Ardmore OK, although we may be heading to your neck of the woods soon . . . :)

Go all in, R146. Move to Catoosa.

We're really excited about Bugtussle too!

I hope all the regular people get generators and gasoline in Cali bc here come more blackouts