NEW DETAILS: Whistleblower Complaint involves Probable Coversation between Trump and Putin on Aug 12

A conversation was overheard. Trump made a promise to Putin. It was so serious the whistleblower came forward, and his complaint is deliberately buried by the White House. It can't get much worse.... but it probably will.

So I posted on the other thread that I think the whistleblower is Bolton. The story in the Post specifically cited “former” officials as the source of the story. I think Bolton is the source of the story and is the whistleblower.

Link to other thread please, R2.

I'm not R2, but this is other thread:

That's why Trump is so insistent on faning the racist flames. To distract from serious stuff like this.

Yup, r5... if this is big, expect some crazy ass shit from Dump tomorrow.

Thanks, R4.

^ and it’s already started.

"We can’t have our cities going to hell."

- Trump, in R8 article.

That piece of shit is gonna ramp up the racism again.

No1curr

I think Trump promised Putin he would either turn over, or disclose the whereabouts of the Kremlin informant we are hiding in the USA...theres a reason the informant was outed last week.

Sounds very plausible r11...

How do we know he won’t, or hasn’t, given up the codes?

Why wouldn’t he? He has no moral reason not to hand them over for untold fortune and favors.

What happens if another country gets the codes? Do they already?

R13, you beat me to it: I'm so sick and tired of hearing about how, as President, Trump can declassify any information he wants to and it's perfectly legal. So I guess if he wanted to give Putin the nuclear launch codes, that would be "perfectly legal," too? Give me a fucking break.

[quote]I think Trump promised Putin he would either turn over, or disclose the whereabouts of the Kremlin informant we are hiding in the USA...theres a reason the informant was outed last week.

If that’s true, how will Trumpists spin betrayal?

Trump's the Commander- in- Chief. Why wouldn't he have access to everything in the intelligence or military community? That's just how it is. It feels like 9/11 in that we didn't have defenses for when a worst case scenario occurred . Did the intelligence community have a plan for a Russian spy as the head of the USA?

So?

[Quote] If that’s true, how will Trumpists spin betrayal?

Let's not worry about that, those of us here who are not trumpists. Let's worry about how the Democrats will or will not take the lead on this.

The [bold]Munch[/bold]urianCandidate

It's probably true. And nothing will be done about it. Until face no punishment and will continue breaking laws and marching us ever closer to fascism. That's just the way it is now. Evil has triumphed.

I think it's worse than Trump turning over a spies whereabouts. I think this involves national security of a sort that could put us all in danger.

The read-out from Trump and Putin's latest call says they just talked about wildfires, but that was the read-out given here in the US. The Russian read-out indicates something was talked about that leads Putin to believe bilateral relations between Russia and the US will 'soon be restored'. Russians are taking that to mean all sanctions will be lifted.

Or maybe Trump told North Korea if they send him 50 bucks he'll send them the name of every asset we have working in their country so Kim can have them all killed.

Who knows with this treasonous piece of shit. Nothing would shock me. Nothing. The US has been in danger since the moment he was sworn in. He is not working on behalf of this country and never has been.

Yaas, QueeN@ R20!!! Let's all just give up and give in.

When he finally goes down it will be epic.

R11 this seems entirely plausible. Afterall it was just a week ago he made that weird statement about how it wasn't fair to have foreign assets as spies because it interfered with his ability to negotiate or something to that effect. I could see Putin telling him since they're 'friends' now it would be a good faith gesture for 45 to give up that person especially since the spy worked under other president's and he's hellbent on undoing everything other presidents have done.

At the link "Trump has privately said that foreign spies can damage relations with their host countries and undermine his personal relationships with their leaders, the sources said. The President "believes we shouldn't be doing that to each other," one former Trump administration official told CNN. "

Essentially that bizarre reason he gave for not using spies from other countries to spy for us probably was what was said to him by Putin verbatim. A spy on the ground able to contradict what Putin is telling him, is enemy number one. What an incredible coup that would have been for Putin.

On the one hand if this is what it is I can't seem how this wouldn't be the smoking gun, on the other hand it is so terrible, evil and stupidly gullible I hope it's something else.

[quote]If that’s true, how will Trumpists spin betrayal?

You're talking about the same people who would lick the shit out of his dirty asshole and call it a three star Michelin meal.

Nothing. Will. Happen.

Republicans just don’t care. We need them to join in and they simply won’t.

If this were the French Revolution, you KNOW what would happen to every Trump, Pence, McConnell, Hannity, Carlson and every vile Rethug congressman who ignores facts and tries to both deny the obvious and vilify innocents.... Hmmmm...not the action that should ever occur in a civilized country. They sure are pushing everyone to the breaking point however. Right? It's a scary world that we live in currently.

R27 Many of the top Republicans are in Putin’s payroll so they won’t do anything to stop Trump.

R29 - YEP. Totally true.

R13, my grasp of American history makes me hope that if a President was giving Russia the launch codes, the Intel community wouldn't be bothering with bureaucratic process.

George W nearly choked to death on a pretzel in the White House.

This will not end well

Susan Collins will be very concerned.

I can totally see him nuking Americans—say, taking out blue states for not voting for him.

[quote] Nothing. Will. Happen.

That’s a pretty safe bet, considering that thus far nothing has happened. Shocking, when you consider that we’ve known for months that tRump directed Cohen to commit felonies, and he obstructed justice with regard to the Mueller report.

And yet, there he sits on his fat ass in the Oval Office.

Discouraging to say the least.

hope WaPo keeps on digging and turning up the heat. This story was even shown on my local podunk affiliate news show this am.

R16, Truman's access isn't the point. His giving national security secrets to Putin, is.

OFGS. Auto-correct changed "Trump" to "Truman."

Hardly, Auto-correct. Hardly.

R31, How would anyone besides T and P know of the treason?

One GD DoJ memo, and now it's "No man except Trump is above the law."

Mueller was a coward, a moral coward. We have a demented mobster in actuality as President.

CNN: "President Trump and his advisors all completely silent on this report this morning."

Susan Collins is very disappointed.

A side note but: aren't the codes to launch missiles in the US meant to go from outside the US to somewhere else?

A phone call between President Trump and an unidentified world leader prompted a whistleblower complaint that has led to a standoff between Congress and Acting Director of National Intelligence Joseph Maguire. NBC’s Kristen Welker reports for TODAY.

I've been hearing that in the timeframe when this phone call happened, he not only spoke with Putin but also Kim Jong Un. So the possibilities are practically endless as to the damage he has done.

[quote] According to the Post, White House records during the five weeks leading up to the August complaint showTrump interacted with at least five foreign leaders. Trump met with the leaders of Pakistan, the Netherlands, and Qatar at the White House during that time, received correspondence from North Korean leader Kim Jong-un and, more notably, initiated a phone call with Russian President Vladimir Putin on July 31, less than two weeks before the complaint was filed.

Meuller was stupid and naive enough to think Bill Barr (his pal who loves justice in America), would step to the plate and do his dirty work for him. That's right, Meuller believed he put all the correct buzzwords in his report and that Barr - who is of course a true patriot - would bring the law down and take out Trump and the fucked up Republican Party. Sure...

NBC and WSJ have both independently confirmed the WaPo report.

Trump has tweeted in 12 hours.

^^Trump HASN'T tweeted in 12 hours.

I doubt Mueller (not Meuller) thought that r47, I think he pretty obviously wanted Congress to take care of it so that way no GOPers would be on the hook at all, himself included.

He's offering codes and the highest level security secrets to the highest bidder. Shopping his wares, so to speak. He's tired if his four day a week, non to three p.m. grind and less availability of beauty pageant puss. He wants a windfall and to retire early.

*noon to three, apologies.

Trump breaks his Twitter silence:

Another Fake News story out there - It never ends! Virtually anytime I speak on the phone to a foreign leader, I understand that there may be many people listening from various U.S. agencies, not to mention those from the other country itself. No problem!

Knowing all of this, is anybody dumb enough to believe that I would say something inappropriate with a foreign leader while on such a potentially “heavily populated” call. I would only do what is right anyway, and only do good for the USA!

When the President has lawyers drafting a Twitter statement, that’s not a good sign.

I would like to see more specificity with this story--and name names. It's far too easy for Dump to tweet what he just tweeted and make it go away without more hard, cold facts.

[quote]understand that there may be many people listening from various U.S. agencies, not to mention those from the other country itself. No problem!

But I bet he thought his stupid NDAs would protect him from someone spilling the tea!

This is top story of the Times now...what is going on?

Right now it sounds like a scramble to bury the specifics.

I doubt this has to do with the Russian mole who's living in the US. The guy had bought a house under his real name, and was living openly in Virginia under his real identity. The Russians already knew where this guy was.

The other whistleblower possibility: the deputy director of national intelligence who was forced to resign suddenly in August. By law, she was supposed to succeed Dan Coates, but Trump made it known that wasn’t going to happen.

NYT: Watchdog Refuses to Detail Whistle-Blower Complaint About Trump

The internal watchdog for American spy agencies declined repeatedly in a briefing on Thursday to disclose to lawmakers the content of a potentially explosive whistle-blower complaint that is said to involve a discussion between President Trump and a foreign leader, according to two people familiar with the briefing.

During a private session on Capitol Hill, Michael Atkinson, the inspector general of the intelligence community, told lawmakers he was unable to confirm or deny anything about the substance of the complaint, including whether it involved the president.

It is time for the C I A to step up to the metaphorical plate and do what it has done before and what it knows best how to do.

"... including whether it involved the president."

Jesus, they're even trying to hide the fact it was Dump on the line with the unnamed foreign leader.

Trump’s tweet confirms that this is about a phone call, not a letter or an in-person meeting. That makes it likely that the world leader was Putin. This may be the phone call that the Russians first confirmed, and said was about “normalizing” the countries’ relationship—which would require the lifting of sanctions.

The unnamed foreign leader, who we all absolutely know was Vlad Putin.

They are now reporting that DOJ instructed DNI to withhold the information....so once again Barr involves himself to protect Trump.

Trump tweets that hes aware people listen to his phone calls so he would never say anything compromising....does he realize what he just said ? He basically admitted that all those secret meetings, the confiscation of meeting notes, etc were because he was doing something he shouldnt be doing.

Can’t the whistle blower make a twitter account?

If the inspector general declined to do his job then there is no other choice.

I guess it could go through the courts but they been to put a rush on it.

What wouldn't this low level grifer do for 50mil and patent in China?

[quote]Can’t the whistle blower make a twitter account?

I was wondering what would prevent the whistleblower from going directly to Congress? Knock, knock, Congressman Schiff....

R68, it's considered classified information. Evidently (according to Twitter) a president is allowed to classify any discussions he wants

[quote] During a private session on Capitol Hill, Michael Atkinson, the inspector general of the intelligence community, told lawmakers he was unable to confirm or deny anything about the substance of the complaint, including whether it involved the president.

If it didn't involve the president, he would have denied it

The WH and the DoJ are going to do everything under the sun to obfuscate and bury this.

We will need an expose. Pentagon Paper-style.

Natasha Bertrand of Politico is reporting that the whistleblower is being represented by DC attorney/former CIA officer Andrew P. Bakaj, who specializes in Security Clearances, Federal Investigations, and Whistleblower Litigation. On his Twitter page, he links to the following "deep dive" by a fellow National Security Attorney into the legal issues.

One of the main issues seems to be that the Intelligence Community Whistleblower Protection Act (ICWPA) set up certain procedures to follow -- except for a case like this one, where the Director of National Intelligence refuses to forward the complaint to Congress as required by the Act. There is no provision in the ICWPA for the whistleblower to go directly to Congress as it was not foreseen that the DNI would ever obstruct the process.

Once again, the holes in our system are being exposed by this Administration's refusal to conduct itself in time-honored tradition or to play by the rules.

NYT:

Watchdog Refuses to Detail Whistle-Blower Complaint About Trump

Reuters:

Schiff says DOJ involved in decision to block whistleblower complaint

Either the IG or the whistleblower needs to go directly to Schiff.

Period.

If the matter is this urgent, don't waste time trying to go through the courts. Fuck that. Tell Schiff. Then let fat Donnie scream and sue. He will lose.

At this point, the whistleblower needs to bypass the DOJ and Congress and take their findings to the press. Maddow and many other in the media have put forth their anonymous whistleblower resources. They need to take advantage, get this out to the public, and let us know. You want to change public opinion? Give the public the information!

R76 No. That's a felony. There's no bypass to the media under federal law for intelligence matters and that will net the whistleblower 10 years in federal prison. Congress is the only legal route.

Let's see the speculation here that Trump outed a source, worse - a US asset - to a foreign leader: that is specifically punishable under federal law. That's what got Rove and Libby into deep shit. A President can't out an asset on his lonesome because he feels like it. It's still a felony. A president who commits a felony has committed a (altogether now)

"A HIGH CRIME OR MISDEMEANOR"

The legal process much be followed to the letter for this to be legally admissible. Otherwise, you know he'll skate. You know what else will happen? One of his toadies will leak it in order to deflect blame. Because this is a suicide squad presidency.

Hang him for treason already!

Yes, the revelation of the facts has to be by-the-books. No short-cuts. They will use any deviation to muddy the waters to try and let tRump skate on this treason.

I don't disagree, R79, but we are unfortunately in an era where legitimate channels are either closed or not working. The obstruction is EVERYWHERE!

Turn off MSNBC, everyone. You're working your manties into a twist for naught. This too shall pass.

NYT:

Whistle-Blower’s Complaint Is Said to Involve Multiple Acts by Trump

I don't believe anything will come of it either. Nobody is doing shit about anything.

Eventually, all these characters will get their comeuppance. History shows this to be true.

Not true, r84. Look at the Bush Administration.

I always felt the Republicans and FoxNews were waiting until closer to the election before they started piling on Trump so that they could get rid of him without upsetting the deplorables.

I think in their eyes that he's no longer a useful idiot and it's time to move on to their everyday brand of evil.

r86, I don't think there is enough time to bring down Trump and offer an alternative for him for the upcoming election next year. I honestly think the GOP is full in when it comes to Trump who is clearly backed by Vladimir Putin. I believe that the GOP and Putin's minions are working together to get Trump that second term, because it's in their best interest.

They have up to the convention in August 2020, r87.

I want to know what Trump's promise is and to whom.

Schiff (?) gave McGuire a deadline to hand over the complaint and he is obviously ignoring it. What can they do about it? Involve the courts and force him to hand it over? How long will that take? What if he still refuses? It's the fucking law and there is just nothing we can do about it. Why doesn't congress have the authority to remove him and throw him in jail? This is outrageous. They're killing our democracy right before our eyes and nothing can be done.

Wait...somebody heard something about the President promising something to somebody but nobody can reveal anything about the something that somebody overheard because it might interfere with another thing that may or may not be happening because we're not at liberty to say.

As sad as R91’s post is...it is unfortunately true!

Obviously, there are ZERO repercussions when rethugs break the law.

And yet these hypocrites scream endlessly about "law and order".

Until we are told what the whistleblower reported, it's hard to have much of an opinion on all this. I wish someone would just leak it.

Some seem to think it may involve Ukraine. They're trying to extort the new president into getting information about Biden son...or they won't give the Ukraine aid.

If someone "high up" in the Trump admin turns up dead you'll know who the whistleblower was.

I just wonder if this is another red herring. No offense to herrings.

R97 Herrings shouldn’t color themselves. They should just accept their age and go gray.

The way these things usually work, is that there are a lot of people who already know. I suspect the leaders (Adam Schiff, etc.) in Congress; Trump and his main minions; the WaPo and more than just those working the story. If it doesn’t bust out quickly, Trump can only delay it. It will leak.

Tillerson casually mentions how Netanyahu played Trump.

Whistleblower(s) be damned.

They’re all playing Trump. He’s so easy to manipulate.

Firstly, flatter him.

Secondly, or Seconal, act “strong”. Talk about bossing people around and so forth.

Thirdly, suggest something that would get Trump the Nobel Peace Prize.

Once, after speaking with Putin, Trump recommended joint Russian/American military exercise. The military was appalled and squashed that.

Another time after speaking with Putin, Trump suggested joint Russian/American efforts to combat international hacking, to protect us from...them.

Both would have given away the store to the Russians. They’d have learned our secrets and given us nothing. The second is inscrutable. The problem was Russian hackers, and Trump suggests teaming with them to combat...them?

Putin denied Russian hacking of our election. He objected “very strongly”. That impressed Trump. I wonder what Putin said? Did he pound the table? Raise his voice? Whatever he did, it worked on Trump.

I’m so afraid this will amount to nothing, after getting my hopes up.

Since Barr has corrupted the DOJ, Congress needs to appoint a special prosecutor and charge Barr and all the other sycophants with obstruction and criminal contempt. They claim the reason they havent charged Barr or anyone else is because there is nobody at DOJ under Barr who would prosecute and McConnell in the Senate wont impeach. A special prosecutor bypasses both those dilemas.I guarantee you shit would start to happen very quickly once they start having to face jail time.

I bet Dana Bash knows every detail including what was promised and to whom.

Watch her Twitter because if anybody knows, it’s her. And Andrea Mitchell. They might not be able to say yet but they know.

WTF? My apologies, I must have put a different url in the field.

Even deplorables are curious although they will never admit it. Even they want to know who it is. They are probably peeking at cnn.com when no one’s looking to get the real tea.

Rachel ought to be a doozie tonight.

Putin: I will give you all the money you want if you (insert heinous crime here)

Trump Deal!

Despite the law, my expectation is that a whistleblower has a secure job for a couple years. Then he’ll be laid-off, and never land a job again. It’s a career-ender.

Nothing will happen.

Nothing ever does.

Russia

Emoluments,

Tax returns

Nepotism

Grabbing translator notes

Trade war

Taking funds from military for wall

Telling NATO to pay for wall

Canceling US military exercises with South Korea,

Allowing North Korea to shoot off rockets

Pressuring Qatar into paying off Kushners debts

Pulling out of Iran Deal

Pulling out of nuclear treaty with Russia

Diverting USAF Trump Turberry

Getting NOAA to lie about hurricane

Getting USCG to lie about hurricane

Banning CA from writing emissions law

Overturning clean air & water laws

Open up national wildlife refuges to oil drilling

Siding with enemy leaders against CIA, FBI

Trying to overthrow government in Venezuela

My wish is that all the G7 members decline to attend the meeting next year at whatever Trump resort. Even better if they visit with the Dem nominee that weekend.

R111, also, he’s a “fucking moron”, per his staff.

Seriously, that’s important.

[quote] Trump said today, about a gun control bill in Congress, that he’s been “watching very strongly”.

WTF does that even mean? How do you do that? What’s the alternative?

It reminds me of the time he said he was “listening very strongly”. The man gets an “A” in bullshit. He’s just a blowhard.

I predict this whole mother fucker of a story blows up tomorrow

The complaint involves Ukraine and Rudy's attempts to strong-arm them into investigating Biden.

A whistleblower complaint about President Trump made by an intelligence official centers on Ukraine, according to two people familiar with the matter, which has set off a struggle between Congress and the executive branch.

The complaint involved communications with a foreign leader and a “promise” that Trump made, which was so alarming that a U.S. intelligence official who had worked at the White House went to the inspector general of the intelligence community, two former U.S. officials said.

Two and a half weeks before the complaint was filed, Trump spoke with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, a comedian and political newcomer who was elected in a landslide in May.

That call is already under investigation by House Democrats who are examining whether Trump and his attorney Rudolph W. Giuliani sought to manipulate the Ukrainian government into helping Trump’s reelection campaign. Lawmakers have demanded a full transcript and a list of participants on the call.

(cont) A White House spokesperson declined to comment.

The Democrats’ investigation was launched earlier this month, before revelations that a U.S. intelligence official, who previously worked in the White House, had lodged a complaint with the inspector general for the intelligence community. The Washington Post first reported on Wednesday that the complaint had to do with a “promise” that Trump made when communicating with a foreign leader.

On Thursday, the inspector general testified behind closed doors to members of the House Intelligence Committee about the whistleblower’s complaint.

Over the course of three hours, Michael Atkinson repeatedly declined to discuss with members the content of the complaint, saying he was not authorized to do so.

He and the members spent much of their time discussing the process Atkinson followed, the statute governing his investigation of the complaint and the nature of an “urgent concern” that he believed it represented, according to a person familiar with the briefing, who, like others, spoke on the condition of anonymity.

“He was being excruciatingly careful about the language he used,” the person said.

Atkinson made clear that he disagreed with a lawyer for the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, who had contradicted the inspector general and found that the whistleblower complaint did not meet the statutory definition of an urgent concern because it involved a matter not under the DNI’s jurisdiction.

Atkinson told lawmakers he disagreed with the lawyer’s analysis — meaning he felt the matter was under the DNI’s purview — and also that it was urgent “in the common understanding of the word,” the person said.

Following the meeting, House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam B. Schiff (D-Calif.) warned of possible legal action if intelligence officials did not share the whistleblower complaint.

Schiff called acting director of national intelligence Joseph Maguire’s refusal to share the complaint with Congress as “unprecedented” and said he understood the Justice Department was involved in that decision.

Ok, I have a question... why can’t Congress subpoena the Inspector General? The IG is supposed to be independent.

Congress has been pretty wimpy for years. Where are the charges of “Contempt of Congress”?

^oops sorry I didn’t know the IG “testified” (said nothing) today.

If this blows up, it could mean that the 2016 election is declared null and void by the Supreme Court and Hillary is reinstated as president.

Trump held up our funding to help Ukraine until suddenly releasing it to them yesterday. Of course Rudy is knee-deep in this shit and his corrupt buddies in the New York FBI Field Office probably are, too.

This must be about Biden. It’s the only scenario that makes sense. So do we think Dump said something to Putin to relay to the Ukraine?

I imagine that Trump thinks of Ukraine as a weak, despicable country that is beneath him to bother with.

Could Dump have told Putin that if Putin secured Dump's reelection, Putin could invade/take over Ukraine with no resistance from the US?

R126, yes, he could have. Probably did, at some point.

Promise = commitment. We are pawns and need to get pissed off! And act on it! Off our asses, now.

Wouldn't surprise me in the least, r126.

Pooty needs to watch his ass, though. His own fucking house is starting to smoulder and it's just a matter of time before it bursts into a yuuuuge conflagration.

The r126 scenario would get Dump impeached. Even McConnell would have a tough time defending Dump in that scenario. I wish we knew, but I guess we’ll find out soon enough.

This is infuriating. We are literally watching the WH and the corrupt Justice Dept. break the law, and all Adam Schiff does is “demand answers”. That’s all dems seem to do... demand answers.... give strongly worded statements.... and then nothing. You better fucking believe if Obama did 1/100000 of the shit Trump has done, the GOP would have him hung by the gallows outside the White House in 2 minutes flat. But all we get in the face of this flagrant breaking of the law is strongly worded statements. I am rapidly losing faith that the Democrats have the spine and wherewithal to stand up to this corrupt, evil regime and it breaks my heart.

Trump needs to be reigned in. He should never be allowed to meet privately with Putin (again). Imagine that. He last met with Putin privately for 2 hours. There were no action items or agreements announced afterward. Trump didn't give his staff instructions based on that meeting. What, then, was discussed? I’m sure it was “strongly” discussed, but what was it?

[quote] Over the course of three hours, Michael Atkinson repeatedly declined to discuss with members the content of the complaint, saying he was not authorized to do so.

Soooo.......nothing.

He refused to discuss the complaint.

Impeachment at this point isn't enough. Punishment by death has a nice ring to it. If only deserves worked.

The President's personal lawyer has spent the summer trying to coerce a foreign government into manufacturing dirt against the President's political opponent. Rudy has been doing this all fucking summer. He has been in Ukraine repeatedly trying to get them to manufacture dirt against the Bidens, and he's been doing it at the behest of Trump. There were articles and op-eds in the Washington Post about it for god's sake. Trump has been holding up Ukraine's aid money until they produced dirt. It's obvious. When the story broke yesterday, Trump quickly sent Ukraine their money trying to cover this up.

Of course blackmailing a foreign country into digging up dirt on your opponent is an impeachable offense. Everything he does is an impeachable offense.

Tell us, R131, what it is you want the Dems to do? Not your fantasy scenario, but what they can realistically and legally do.

You fucking throw them in jail for contempt r136

"It remains unclear how the whistleblower gained access to details of the president’s calls — whether through “readouts” generated by White House aides or through other means.

[bold]Memos that serve as transcripts of such calls are created routinely. But if that is the source in this instance, it would appear to mean that White House aides made a formal record of comments by the president later deemed deeply troubling by the intelligence community’s chief watchdog."[/bold] WaPo

I see Bolton's fine hand (and handlebar mustache) in this...

Rachel speculated that the White House might sue the whistleblower. Not only is this bad for the whistleblower, but it’s bad for the rule of law, and will discourage future whistleblowers. If it’s about spies and foreign informants, it will chill their actions in the future, too.

Yes! It does involve the nation of Ukraine. It’s like they’re playing 20 question:

Does this involve the president?

Yes.

Does it involved a European country starting with a consonant?

No

Is it Ukraine?

Yes...

Ghouliani is having screaming about Biden and having a complete meltdown on Chris Cuomo.

Hence, why I’m not watching, r141. The hate trifecta for me is Dump-McConnell-Giuliani.

This is huge but how much of American will even understand it?

[quote]Trump needs to be reigned in

Oh Dear!,,,Der Furhair isn't enough, he needs to be king?

Giuliani-that sick, twisted gift that keeps on giving.

Until we really know what’s involved, r144, it’s hard to say. But I think if Dump threatened to withhold aid to the Ukraine for info on Biden, people will understand that. Maybe I’m a Pollyanna, though.

CNN's @ChrisCuomo : "Did you ask Ukraine to look into Joe Biden?"

@RudyGiuliani : "Of course I did"

President Trump's attorney says he had spoken with a Ukrainian official about Joe Biden's possible role in that government's dismissal of a prosecutor who investigated Biden's son.

As excited I am that this story is blowing up into something potentially huge, I have very little faith that anything will come of it. Schiff will wring his hands and give a strongly worded statement. Trump will scream fake news and we’ll be onto the next scandal and this will be forgotten in two days. This is exactly how a dictatorship is born.

The sad thing is that it's just media fodder. No real, political consequences follow. The US is being held hostage by the GOP and Trump with Putin pulling the strings in Russia. But let's not take action, just let us watch all the Trump TV drama unfold to keep us occupied and distracted.

R150, we can sue them, we can vote them out, or we can kill them. That's it. Those are the options.

Frustrated that this very serious scandal will disappear in the blurr and noise of Trumpworld in the next couple days? Infuriated that he continues destroy our democracy's norms and gets away with it? This FRUSTRATION and ANGER fueled the efforts and turnout of the 2018 elections. We need to focus on 2020. We can't let this crap wear us down.

I think gouliani is trying to distract us. I believe the Biden issue is a red herring but something more sinister was promised regarding Ukraine having nothing to do with this.

At any rate, it appears a WaPo reporter just accidentally outed the source as a “he” on CNN.

But do YOU do anything except bitch about Democrats online, r149?

Congressional Dems aren't sitting idle and they're the only reason we even know about this. They're not doing nothing.

The request for Biden dirt was probably meant to be passed on to Putin. They were asking for help in the 2020 election just like they got in the 2016 election.

The whistleblower should go the the NY Times and make a public statement.

I wonder if the whistleblower is Dan Coats. If so that will make it very difficult for the GOP to ignore. Coats is very well respected by conservatives and the intel community in general.

Trump supporters won’t understand the significance or won’t care.

Trump supporters don’t understand basic tenets of the Constitution. They are sheep.

Now we're being told it's about Ukraine's president, not Putin.

Politico:

'A deficiency in the law': How Trump accidentally exposed a whistleblower loophole

No, R159. All we know right now is that it has something to do with Ukraine. It still could very well have been a conversation with Putin.

Ukraine and Russia are NOT friends. Russia annexed Crimea not too long ago.

At some point the deep state will have had enough of this clown. He will slip in the shower or have a stroke or some other accident. I'm just surprised they've waited this long.

R162, how dense are you? Ukraine and Russia have an enormous connection-many Russians live in Ukraine.

In 2004, the Russians poisoned the leading Ukrainian presidential candidate. They probably meant to kill him, but did not. He served from 2004 to 2010.

The mess in Ukraine worsened recently due to a desire by the people there for pro-European, rather than pro-Russian, policies. Russia wanted them to be a vassal state.

Russia did the same thing to the country of Georgia, too.

Now looks like Trump stopped the flow of aid money to Ukraine that had been approved by Congress, and had asked Ukraine to conclude the corruption investigation of Biden’s son. At this point it’s being presented as having an implied relationship. We might yet hear that Trump slipped and made the connection explicit, in which case it’s bribery and extortion, plus more.

R164 If I had friends like that

There’s more to it than Ukraine. “Multiple acts” are under investigation as it hopefully is expanding

Agree that it could be Dan Coats.

Senior officials could be Tillerson and Bolton.

Top intel official interrupted meeting to urge his deputy to resign:

Washington(CNN) The country's No. 2 intelligence official, Sue Gordon, knew it was likely she would have to eventually step down from her post, but the timing of that decision became more urgent on Thursday after her boss -- outgoing spy chief Dan Coats -- interrupted a meeting she was holding on election security and asked his deputy to submit her letter of resignation, sources familiar with the events told CNN.

The Brits would have plenty to say about this.

They originally started the corruption inquiry into the behavior of the previous government in Ukraine - and specifically demanded the prosecutor be removed. Christine Legarde of the IMF made it very clear that official corruption from the slaggard pace of the corruption probes led by the prosecutor that was shielding the former President's cornies would lead to a freeze of further IMF bailouts.

The British government seized $23 Million in funds from these crooks. Hunter Biden joined the board of the Ukrainian gas company specifically to give them legal guidance to get them out of corruption behavior. A year and a half later, their President was kicked out of office and fled to Moscow. That's when Joe Biden told the new government they had to step up their anti-corruption investigations and remove the prosecutor who was shielding the Moscow lackeys.

That's what Trump is now trying to handwave: Biden didn't protect his Putin allies but sided with the Brits and the IMF.

Everybody clear?

Nothing will happen because both parties are the political tools of the 1% and are connected to Russia money in the same way.

Putin has figured out money is America's Achilles heel.

R122 Hillary + the DNC stole the primary from Bernie Sanders. Bernie would have beaten Trump. Bernie is the rightful president not Hillary.

R173 = the worst and most obvious kind of dumb troll

Bernie lost in 2016. He's losing again. The general reaction is "meh" and his supporters are going to Warren.

Only Republicunts and dumb fucking trolls don't know it.

Money may be America's Achilles heel but I seem to recall Mr. Putin getting a much different response when we had a real President of the United States just a couple of years back.

Who is FFing every post in this thread and the other one trying to get them hidden? Do you fucking right-wing loons have nothing better to do than hang out on a gay message board doing shit like that? You MAGAts are so goddamn pathetic it's unbelievable.

Why did Coats go so far as to interrupt a meeting to make sure Sue Gordon resigned as quickly as possible?

Was he trying to cover this all uo?

I would say more like the opposite, R177. Coats may be the damn whistleblower for all we know. She had to resign because Coats resigned and since his second in command is a woman who does not fit the trumptardian bimbo mold, she had to be out with him. I doubt it's the last we'll hear from either of them, even if the whistleblower isn't Coats.

Coats may be the Phantom OpEd writer about grown ups being around (but that was a while ago - no grown ups now).

It’s unbelievable to me that somebody can’t count, and can’t understand that Bernie lost the Democratic primary by millions of votes. If he can’t even win the Democrats, how was he supposed to win the Independents and the crossover Republican votes too? He’s not winning the primaries now either. And if he has one health issue or Biden does, those votes are going to Warren or somebody else. Even if Biden dropped out tomorrow, Bernie would not get those votes. They are too different politically. Biden voters are not Bernie voters. Bernie probably has the about the biggest share he’s going to get. Warren continues to climb.

The only way somebody could believe Bernie, who did not win the primary or the election, “should” be the President is if they don’t believe in Democracy and want somebody installed on a throne by Putin. That’s what we have right now. Sounds like a Russian troll to me. They have no idea how democracy works, judging from that post.

I do not mind seeing threads about this idiot, but I could do without his picture taunting me. I despise this venomous snake. Ok, I lost it for a minute, I’m back to reality.

Make America Grovel Again.

Make America Grovel Again.

This reeks of Trump and Putin. Don't get sidetracked.

Withholding the $250 million is good for Putin, since it's for Ukraine's defenses against Putin. Maybe the Orange Tard was lying when he promised the Ukranian guy the money in return for making something up about Joe Biden's son. He wanted to get something out of the Ukrainians but would never had given them the money regardless, because it would piss off Putin.

This is what Trump and cronies wanted investigated and were trying to find dirt on Biden about it.

Yes, r43. But if the codes were known, perhaps they could be hacked and neutralized. Putin's dream: a United States without a nuclear arsenal.

Trump's ego wouldn't allow him to let Russia take charge and make him look like an incompetent fool. I'd guess he'd make a big deal about giving all nuclear bombs to Russia as big gesture for a worldwide peace treaty ... only when you dig deeper we find out he SOLD them to the highest bidder.

R170/r177 posts need more discussion please. Did she have to leave that same day?

R102, Putie Poot described a videotape to Trump.

R101, Not just strong men. Trump REALLY admires to the point of fawning those leaders known to have murdered their opponents. Putin, Kim Jong-Un, MBS. Hitler, too, if Ivana is to be believed.

"There were very fine people on both sides," Trump said of an event where a White Supremacist killed Heather Heyer.

Trump craves most having the power of life and death, especially the latter ("I don't WANT to cause 10,000,000 deaths in Afghanistan....").

[quote]I predict this whole mother fucker of a story blows up tomorrow

And if history is any indication, I predict it will blow over completely by Monday.

Tom Nichols:

Rudy is showing that the Trump strategy here is to simply try to turn this around and keep saying “Biden, Clinton, Soros” and hope Rube Nation can’t figure any of it out.

OMG, I'm praying that there is audio! Please God, let there be audio that leaks that has Trump and Putin talking about what Putin chastising Trump and telling him what he expects from Trump and Trump promising him, that if he gets re-elected, "then all the things you and I discussed will happen. I will make sure you get everything you want from the United States. " Yes, please. Even an audio where Trump tells him he will give up our spies and our Intel network. Fine. It's a fantasy, but still....

If all this is true, is THIS enough to Impeach him yet NANCY?!?

Trump could end this all in and instant by declassifying and releasing the transcript of the phone call(s) in question. After all, they back up his and Rudy's version of events, right?

Hmmm, I can't imagine why he doesn't do that.

Someone suggested (upthread?) that this was a smokescreen... they are dragging Biden into this because the actual “promise” that was made (don’t forget, the story said promise, not threat) was Dump not interfering when Putin annexed Ukraine, if Putin helped Dump win in 2020.

I think we’re missing this fine distinction... the story did say promise, but the Biden stuff revolves around a threat to the Ukraine to withhold aid.

[quote]Rudy is showing that the Trump strategy here is to simply try to turn this around and keep saying “Biden, Clinton, Soros” and hope Rube Nation can’t figure any of it out.

Well, in fairness to Rudy and Trump, that’s a pretty good bet. Rube Nation is well-named.

Here we go again

The White House recording system that had been in the Oval Office was dismantled some years ago. Trump himself has floated the idea he's reinstituted it, but it sounded more like he was bluffing against Comey.

That can be taken at face value. If he records conversations in the White House, there's precedent for taking him to court to surrender those recordings - especially those calls with specific leaders on specific dates that are pertinent to an accusation of a specific crime. They can't demand everything to conduct a fishing expedition.

This is Trump. He'd burn everything rather than comply.

MSNBC already making excuses and giving Trump a way out by claiming "executive privilege" or this isn't intelligence related so it never should have been reported, etc...

I thought the intelligence services recorded every phone call going in and out of the WH.

I think that's the claim that the WH has been making from the get-go, not something MSNBC just made up, R198.

Ukraine also has recordings of the calls.

R190 Not "blow over", but just be replaced by the next outrage/tweet/crisis. He's Teflon to 42% of the country. He gets away with this stuff because the volume and frequency of the outrage enervates. Election... election.... election. Give $, make calls, write postcards, walk precincts, register voters.... November, 2020.

Maybe our friends and allies in Europe can come to our aid? The UK, France, and others have great intelligence services and could easily have tapes of these calls. It’s so much easier fighting fascism before it takes root, than fighting it on the shores of Greenland, Iran, or wherever this fool takes us next.

A whistleblower would imply that the others involved knew it was illegal and one person decided to step up. Just by the act itself, everyone involved would be incriminated - the whistleblower would be exempt because they came forward without fear of repercussion.

I think we've down this road before.

There was no "executive privilege" when Reagan's henchmen, North and Poindexter, ran an illegal weapons scam out of the White House. Lesson: The President is not omnipotent with respect to his powers in office. Second Lesson: Destroying evidence is a really, really bad idea

Here, it sounds like Rudy, as Trump's personal lawyer is not acting as his lawyer but as his henchman and has removed his legal figleaf. He's acting on behalf of the President of the United States and not his client, Donald Trump. He's grossly overstepped the legal boundaries by threatening the President of a foreign country and that country's security by withholding weapons and funds approved by Congress unless that country does Trump's personal bidding.

It's a quid pro bono for the personal benefit of Trump - and that's abuse of office.

Here’s the Ukrainian summary of the portion of the phone call in question which spells out extortion/bribery in so many words. Trump basically told them he was withholding the $250 million in US aid (cooperation) until they came up with dirt on Biden and his son (the investigation of corruption cases).

[quote]Donald Trump expressed the conviction that the new Ukrainian authorities would be able to quickly improve Ukraine’s image, concluding the investigation of corruption cases that have stymied cooperation between Ukraine and the USA.

Does anyone still remember the last scandal? Brett Kavanaugh is probably having a couple of beers in his basement right now, amused that no one gives a damn anymore that a Supreme Court judge molested women at college. Last week's news....

Exactly, r208--last week's outrage is old news. I really don't think this will affect Dump. He has a stooge like Barr running the show for him, deflating and putting off, and the news itself is too frustratingly vague.

It's amazing how few challenges Trump has had since he took office. Obama had a it all set-up for the next POTUS to have an easy transition. A good economy, etc.

No it's 2.5 years later and Trump is hitting the rapids. He doesn't take advice, ignores intel, runs his mouth, fires everybody, can't negotiate and get things done. And scandal after scandal is floating to the top of the toilet.

The Deplorables (and Russian hackers) will still vote for him because he's all they have. But you can't say this is a successful Presidency.

The issue is the Right Wing press doing their best to establish the narrative that there are totally legit reasons why Trump got re-elected even though every non-right wing poll had him and the Republican party losing the election. And anyone who suspects Putin and Russia hacking the votes again is just a stupid conspiracy theorist.

Unfortunately, it really doesn't matter how many scandals, irregularities, illegal acts, and various other issues arise as long as Republican politicians (particularly Senators) refuse to take a stance against Trump's bullshit.

[quote] I see Bolton's fine hand (and handlebar mustache) in this...

The complaint was filed in July. Sue Gordon is believed to be the whistleblower. She resigned suddenly when her boss Dan Coates resigned. It’s possible she filed the complaint, Trump found out, told Coates to fire her, , then Coates resigned.

We know Coates walked into a meeting Gordon was having and he told her she needed to resign. That’s a fact.

[quote]The complaint was filed in July.

No, it was filed on August 12. Sue Gordon resigned on August 9.

One of the reasons why Trump is getting away with everything is that no one is suffering from committing these offenses. Has anyone from the IRS been fined or put in prison for refusing to turn over Trump taxes or for ignoring the laws saying the IRS MUST turn over his taxes if they are requested by the judiciary?

R215, the DOJ will be right on that any day now . . .

Trump gets away with it, because he has friends in high places who back him up and fuck with the US government and the US Constitution for their own gain.

Trump on his own wouldn't have been elected in the first place.

Why isn't anyone in the media hounding the fuck out of the DOJ and demanding to know why they are refusing to do their goddam jobs?

Everyday every media outlet should be calling, emailing and hanging around in the halls demanding justice and enforcement of congressional subpoenas.

There are plenty of low level staffers who can hang out there and demand answers. Where are they?

The Whistleblower Story Looks Horrendous, But It’s More Likely to Help Trump Than End His Presidency...

I fucking hate articles like the one R219 just posted. It reinforces Trump’s Teflon narrative and then gets baked into the public consciousness. How about a headline that says, “Trump: Briber & Traitor”?

R219 is crap. There has always been controversy about Mediaite. I believe at one point Dan Abrams and Jared Kushner talked about merging Mediaite with The Observer.

Agree with r220 and r221.

Looks like Trump's biggest problem is the shit telephone security in the White House. If we believe his latest bullshit, which we don't. That fat bitch doesn't even try to make up believable lies anymore.

R220 You're not far off.

Foreign Corrupt Practices Act applies, likely not to Trump in his current capacity but when he was a private citizen. It applies to his children who are not government officials. It applies to Rudy who is not a government employee.

And, just "wow". The Daily Beast article is stupifying. The Ukrainians are specifically calling out quid pro quo.

It’ll be fun seeing Fat Fatty McFatterson explain this on the ABC This Week panel.

Wall Street Journal: Trump Pressured Ukraine President To Investigate Biden’s Son Eight Times On Phone Call

President Trump in a July phone call repeatedly pressured the president of Ukraine to investigate Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden’s son, urging Volodymyr Zelensky about eight times to work with Rudy Giuliani, his personal lawyer, on a probe, according to people familiar with the matter. “He told him he should work with him [Giuliani] on Biden and that people in Washington wanted to know” whether the allegations were true of not, one of the people said.

[quote]Schiff, Cummings, Nadler, and Engel: "We call on the Administration to immediately deliver the whistleblower's complaint to the Intelligence Committee and halt all further attacks against this individual."

"Or else we'll write a very sternly worded letter, believe you me."

EIGHT times, R227? The Ukrainians must have been on the floor.

Fucking numbnuts Biden. How does he respond publicly? "My son is innocent, The President should be a president."

FUCK YOU BIDEN!

Here's what you say numbnuts:

The president is once again taking help from mysterious foreign governments to try and win an election. This proves everything in The Mueller report is true. It's time to impeach this moron."

Yeah, R230, being angry at Biden is the right play here . . .

Wash Post confirms WSJ reporting that Trump pressed Ukranian president to investigate Biden's son in July 25 call.

Trump used the July 25 conversation with Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky to pressure the recently elected leader to more aggressively pursue an investigation that Trump believed would deliver potential political dirt against one of the president’s political adversaries.

One source familiar with the contents of the exchange said that Trump did not raise the issue of American military and intelligence aid that had been pledged to Ukraine, indicating there was not an explicit quid pro quo in that call.

I hope it is Bolton - he's an old, spiteful cunt with nothing to lose; I'd rather see him go nuclear & destroy Trump rather than some poor, hapless bureaucrat who is being hassled as we speak by some lackeys hired by Jr. & Eric.

I can't bring myself to hope, since the big drama last weekend was the Kavanaugh reveal, which the NYT had to partially walk back, but considering how fast this story is moving, maybe this is what finally brings Dump down.

He has been strangely quiet on Twitter today - maybe his lawyers took away his phone to keep him from going all Colonel Jessup on Schiff and screaming how BY GOD YES I DID AND YOU NEED ME ON THAT WALL (when I build it!)

So... stay with me here. This leak today by the WSJ was done on behalf of Dump by a Dump insider. R232 has something very important—the Source says there was no quid pro quo. But we know the whistle blower specifically mentioned a “promise”. This is Dump deflecting to make what happened seem more palatable. Biden deserved to be investigated! That’s all he was asking for!

What was the promise, then? Is this Biden stuff just a distraction?

R234, it’s clear that there were repeated contacts, some of which happened out in the open, and it’s known that Trump blocked aid to Ukraine after the president of Ukraine declined to meet with Giuliani.

[quote]What was the promise, then? Is this Biden stuff just a distraction?

Initial coverage of this leak focused on a series of conversations rather than just one, so there may be more phone calls the whistleblower was privy too.

Also, the whistleblower may have been present after Trump hung up the phone and said to Rudy G -- "go to Ukraine and tell them we'll give them the money if they dig up some dirt we can use."

Thanks, r235 and r236. I found it odd that the story today specifically mentioned no quid pro quo. That’s why I thought the source might be Dump. They know the story is out there and they’re trying to soften the impact. I wonder, though, if this what the whistleblower actually reported? Or did the whistleblower report something far worse and we just don’t know.

But it makes sense, too, that the source for today’s story just wasn’t privy to the quid pro quo, just the pressuring of the Ukraine president.

R230, I'm glad no one is taking advice from you...

[quote]The president is once again taking help from mysterious foreign governments to try and win an election. This proves everything in The Mueller report is true. It's time to impeach this moron."

While most likely true...it has yet to be proven. Your advice, until proven, would land someone in court.

It's not Putin. It's about him telling the Ukrainians EIGHT TIMES IN ONE PHONE CALL to "work with" his personal lawyer Ghouliani to trump up something on Joe Biden's son.

Just like I said last night and one of you fucking cunts went into a bizarre meltdown all over the Datalounge.

CONFIRMED. Washington Post, New York Times and Wall Street fucking Journal. It's not Putin, it's Ukraine and it's about extorting dirt on Biden's son (probably invented) to help him in the election. And the Dumpster Fire got caught. Ha.

Just stopped by to rub your fucking nose in it, you hysterical twat. You were WRONG. Again.

Toodles!

R239, no doubt that happened. However—I think it might be a distraction from something MUCH bigger. And with Putin.

^ ahem. And now the NYT is saying Ukraine extortion is part of the whistleblower’s complaint. There’s more coming down the pike.

It's not a distraction from Putin.

His corruption and crimes with Putin have always been hiding in plain sight. It's not going away, it's not secret, it's not even in question.

This is simply another one of his dumb fucking grifts/extortion rackets and, happily, he has been caught.

And then an Intelligence Officer ratted him out. hehehehehehe

Washington Post:

Republicans echo Trump in suggesting whistleblower complaint is politically motivated

I just hate that disgusting, shrimpy ratfuck Gym Jordan.

Gym Jordan is a fucking asshole who stood by and let wrestlers be groped

Gym? You mean the same Gym Jordan who looked the other way while his wrestlers were being sexually assaulted, THAT Gym Jordan?

Yeah, he's a fucking tool and part of the Hitler Youth of the House.

This whistleblower needs a nickname like Deep Throat

Any suggestions?

The Retardians can whine all they like.

Their Fuhrer is busted. This one's got legs.

[quote]This whistleblower needs a nickname like Deep Throat

Y'all gonna need to find anothuh. That one’s taken.

Leak of Faith

If it's a chick -

The Handmaid's Tale

The Hill:

Biden dismisses Trump's Ukraine allegations: 'The president should start to be president'

Washington Post:

If a whistle blows in the Trump administration, does it make a sound?

WTF is someone like Tom Steyer running for? How about him (or some other civic-minded billionaire) putting ads up this weekend saying any Republican senator who doesn't vote to convict an impeached Trump will have to answer to the voters the next time up?

And then keep repeating the message over and over until even the deplorables know how guilty he is? Can all the persuasive talent be at the troll farm in St. Petersburg? If so, we can pay better than the cold borscht, hard rolls, and off-brand vodka they're getting now

Someone from the NSA is whistleblowing in the President.

This is serious shit!

Of course, the ass-licking GOP automatically calls it politically motivated.

Reveal what the whistleblower is revealing and let’s decide if it’s politically motivated or not!

You know what pisses me off? Democrats on Twitter are being as hysterical as Republicans on Twitter.

Game show idiot Chuck Woolery - Who is some kind of rightwing pundit now - is talking about “the prosecutor of Hunter Biden.” Something like “Joe Biden made Ukraine fire the prosecutor of Hunter Biden and bragged about it on Tv!”

When was Hunter Biden prosecuted? Never. But he’s spreading that bullshit and cons are lapping it up.

On the other hand, there is full on hysteria that Pelosi MUST IMPEACH NOW, MADAME SPEAKER!

Oh really? Cuz you say so. Here are some questions for the “impeach now!” screamers

1) Who is the whistleblower?

2) When did this phone call happen (exact date, please)

3) Were there other witnesses?

4) Is there documentation?

5) Are there recordings?

6) What did Trump say?

None of the screamers know the answers to these questions yet, but they’re demanding Pelosi must impeach NOW!

How about we wait til we get the information before demanding legal action?

And I don’t know about you but I WANT US to run against Trump in 2020, so I don’t want to hand the GOP impeachment as an instrument they can use to strongarm Trump into resigning or dropping out of the race so they can replace him with someone more electable. Let Trump be our opponent in all of his greasy, corrupt glory.

But here’s a sad thing - a friend today was talking about a coworker who is intelligent, educated, a family man, someone with an important job requiring skill and steadiness, who believes Trump is being railroaded by the intelligence community because he “stood up to them.” It’s not just toothless hillbillies who support Trump. This guy with grad degrees — who works meticulously and without emotion — thinks the reason why Trump keeps firing everyone is because he is clearing the swamp of corruption. Trump is a hero rooting out Washington corruption, lies, deceit. He’s the fabulously wealthy businessman who takes no crap, pulls no punches and gets the job done, vanquishing bad guys like a rock ‘em sock ‘em robot. He’s going to bring back jobs, he stands up to the media....

One thing I do agree with is that the media looks like a pack of fucking idiots standing there letting Trump bulldoze them with bullshit in front of a helicopter. No wonder people hate them.

But tv can shape a psychotic loser into a brilliant winner (The Apprentice) and Fox News has an almost magical formula for roping people in.

Oh — The NY Times is getting exposed for the shitshovelers they are. This whole Hunter Biden stuff is being funneled directly from a rightwing breitbart guy to the Times and the Times is just going with it. They’re a disgrace. Just like when they printed the “FBI finds no Trump Russia Ties” and “But Her Emails!” shit during the election.

None of those reporters have a spine. None of them stick up for the truth. He just stands there and lies and they let him. Why don' t they stick together and start throwing rotten eggs at him? Why don't they start shouting liar! Honestly, why do reporters refuse to stand for truth.

r258 It is the success of Trump constantly shouting fake news whenever he can. His followers believe it so much that any negative press about Trump is defacto fake news. The media to their own detriment have published stories with less than credible sources and had to redact giving legs to his Fake News mantra. I think people are trying to get every duck in a row in this one.

Only 20% of Americans are even on Twitter.

Not so many. Not the electorate. People pay too much attention to it at their peril.

The fake president extorted the Ukraine for his personal political gain. He used aid authorized by the Congress for the Ukraine in order to press his extortion scheme for personal political gain.

Twitterites can say whatever they say. The other 80% of the country doesn't give a fuck and never sees it. They watch the news, they see it in the paper, they talk about it with their friends and colleagues. Faux Noise doesn't control the world. Twitter doesn't control the world. Why do you give them so much more power than they actually possess?

R256, Trump's approval ratings are actually quite low with college graduates, so please stop pretending that tons of people with graduate degrees support him. They don't. Weird that the people who claim to hate Trump are pretending he's more popular than he really is

The entire GOP should be hanged.

I have r256 on ignore if that helps r261.

Didn't Pence make a trip to the Ukraine? Why don't they haul him in front of Congress and get him on the record about what he knows.

Leave me alone, I was only in the Ukraine to pick up hot Ukrainian guys. Uh, I mean.....I love Jesus

My oldest work friend is a women's health NP who is actively pro choice (tells me when to contact people on congressional committees about contraceptives & abortion), is a democrat and is married to a guy who voted for Trump. He's a graduate of one of the Little Ivys & all his friends are Republican. I asked her how could he do that? And she said, "He hates Hillary & democrats. I can't talk about it please because I've tried to change his mind a million times and I can't. Please, it's my marriage." I said ok, you're right it's your choice to be married to him, not mine.

But most if my relatives voted for Trump, even democrats (but lukewarm democrats). They believe his hype and they have been trained to believe Washington is full of corruption. They hate congress - republican and democrats.

I try my best to point out the craziness. For example, why does Trump lie all the time? You know he does. He says something and 30 seconds later he denies he said it. He says "I never did/said that." Then someone says "We know you did/said it." Then he goes, "Well maybe I did say/do that." Then it's proven and he goes, "Ok so I did say/do that, so what?"

I ask, "how can you trust someone so deceitful " and they go "All politicians do that! He's just playing the game that's all. He's beating them at their own game." They KNOW they're as full of shit as he is and, like Trump they say "So what? I like him."

They're not paying a whole lot of attention to political news. College students and retirees pay attention. They have a lot of time in their hands. People with jobs, kids, lots of bills, parents to take care of, they're just not paying attention and they like Trump because he's a familiar celebrity. It's like he's their sports team and they are diehard fans.

Pence went to Poland & met with Ukrainian president. Maybe Trump wouldn't go because the Ukrainian president wasn't doing what he wanted him to do.

Giuliani kept going to Ukraine. Poor Ukraine, lol. Can you imagine being the target of a trump spiel? But give Ukraine props, they obvs didn't do whatever it was Trunp wanted because he only released the money when all this became public the other day.

That’s so weird to me because I’ve always known as anyone who is paying attention that he is an asshole, con man.

"Mr. Trump in the call didn’t mention a provision of U.S. aid to Ukraine, said this person, who didn’t believe Mr. Trump offered the Ukrainian president any quid-pro-quo for his cooperation on any investigation."

He wins again.

Guillotine!

People should be careful what they wish for. Now the media will be obligated to investigate Biden.

Lawrence O'Donnell did not help with that "Trump loans co-signed by Russian oligarchs" story.

R266 trying to spread the myth that tons of Dems are supporting Trump. Nope. It's the other way around, even some Republicans are starting to come around to how corrupt he is

R272, that was probably true

I suspect all of this is part of a campaign strategy on the behalf of Trump’s administration. Nothing here is authentic, even the alleged “promise” isn’t holding any water. Just like the Kavanaugh crap from last week. Also, the Ben Carson faux pas regarding dismissive comments about trans persons.

Everything here is being designed to make the MSM, FOX excluded, like a bunch of witch hunters, while the Dems look like hysterical, pearl clutching agitators. It’s a psychological ploy, & it’s working.

My parents both sit in front of their TV, watching Trump speak, as if they’re watching & listening to Mozart. It’s almost to the point of idolatry, if not already there. I cannot even begin to understand how his base his so mesmerized by him, especially my parents, whom I know aren’t unintelligent people, however, very conservative.

The above being said, what Trump understands is that if he or people in his administration purposely create tension, where they have to constantly defend themselves and look like victims, their base cling to them even more. And conversely, the more we, the Dems, go after them, the more we are cast as the bad guys, for constant persecution of Trump & his administration.

Please understand that I, in no way am defending these people who are nothing but scum. I know Trump is a corrupt piece of shit, as are many in his administration, but we have to become smarter about winning battles vs. winning the war.

No, kids, we actually have him this time.

Extorting Ukraine for his personal political gain is unacceptable.

White supremacist trumptards won't care or will pretend not to care. They're a lost cause and we don't need them.

Non-retard Independents are not okay with any of this.

Suburban voters are not okay with any of this.

He's weak and stupid and we will destroy him.

R276, you’re wrong on this one.

R276 May well be right. If Ukraine brings charges against Trump and Guiliani in the ICC and pursues this - of all places - in the United Nations Security Council, it would leave the US in a very awkward position. The US would likely be the only permanent member to attempt to veto any resolution for formal investigation.

The problem is that Great Britain is also a member and they're the ones who originally pursued the corruption charges against the prosecutor that Biden pushed to have removed. Trump would have no allies in the ICC or the UN, if Ukraine decides to slap Trump down.

Putin, meanwhile, is laughing at the orange assclown in the White House.

[Quote]"Mr. Trump in the call didn’t mention a provision of U.S. aid to Ukraine, said this person, who didn’t believe Mr. Trump offered the Ukrainian president any quid-pro-quo for his cooperation on any investigation."

From an unnamed White House source, trying to obfuscate and misdirect.

R279, yes: the source said only that the quid-pro-quo did not come up in a specific phone call. The current reporting on the complaint is that it covered a series of events, not simply one phone call.

It's the "Russia are you listening" all over again, and the Trump camp is applying literally the same strategy:

Don't look at me, look what Crooked Biden (Crooked Hillary) and his crooked son did. I'm the President and am fighting against corruption (EmailZ! Deep State!). I am the victim of the next political hackjob (Witchhunt!) by the Lying Democrats and the Fake Media!

This mantra started last night by Ghouliani on CNN, and will be on repeat attack mode for days and months by all Trump cronies until they effectively neutralize Trumps's actual crimes and misdemeanors.

Meanwhile they have bogged down, obstructed and blocked the Whistleblower complaint at every turn. It will take weeks if not months till - and if - Congress gets the complaint. By then it will be too late, Trump's and the Rethugs narrative will have flooded the channels and William Barr the cleaner will have lied and demagogued in public enough to sap the investigation.

I didn't watch Cuomo/CNN last night but tuned in tonight. He framed tonight's show as "unpacking" and "deconstructing" last night's interview - ostensibly to reveal how Rudy had a definite strategy (you think?!) which he started unfolding in the interview, and then ran to get on Fox News to spin it further.

Cuomo was positively salivating at the mileage he's getting out of the unhinged Ghouliani for his show - while feigning "concern" that Trump and Rudy's strategy will carpet-bomb the media and the public. Well, Chris, who gave Ghouliani a platform last night to spin the n-th conspiracy in the first place?!

Would a reasonable person have understood the intention of the threat? That is - a. that Trump would withhold Congressional funding and weapons/weapon sales *unless* b. Ukraine met Trump's conditions regarding kompromat against Joe and Hunter Biden?

It doesn't have to be explicitly stated. If reasonable people understood it, that's the violation. That's what Ukraine should take to the ICC.

Breaking: Trump pushed Ukraine's president at least eight times in one phone call to work with Rudy Giuliani, who was advocating for a probe of Joe Biden's son, sources say

R275, if you actually are a Democrat and do care about the state of this country, please slip some hard-core tranquilizers into your ignorant parent's geritol on election day. Parents like you describe need to be out in their place. When they wake up the next day, tell them they voted. With intellect on par with theirs, they will likely never know the difference.

This is just confirmation of rumors that have been swirling for months about the Ghoul, fat Donnie and Biden.

Now it's just out in the open for those not paying attention to see. IIRC, we discussed this in one of these threads several months ago and speculated about it.

Also, let me remind you that during Mueller's televised testimony to Congress, Mueller pointed out that fat Donnie was given a "pass" for campaign violations because his band of fuckwits didn't "understand" the laws.

Mueller and (can't remember the Democrat questioning him) both stated that fat Donnie was made aware of what constitutes a campaign violation so if he engages in the same behavior, he has NO EXCUSE.

Therefore, he broke the law after being told by the motherfucking Special Counsel not to.

Fuck sending him to prison. Roll the goddamned guillotines!

One of the deficiencies of the whole Mueller investigation is that he never cross-examined Trump face to face.

Anyone who works in law enforcement knows that cross-examination is a vital component of getting the truth from a witness.

What about “the promise”?

Until we know what that is, it’s hard to know what all the other incidents are included.

I was watching reports of this on MSNBC today. This entire thing feels like deja vu. We went through that entire, agonizing Mueller investigation only to have it end with a whimper and scum trump still in the White House.

And now, here he is, doing it again. The same illegal crap again. He hasn't learned anything but that he can keep on cheating with impunity, colluding with foreign nations again to meddle in our elections. What the fuck? trump is criminally insane. How dare he! Fuck that slimy turd to the grave, I hate him and his cheating allies so much.

I'm further distraught that we don't have any super strong, quick, articulate, on point Democratic candidates on the slate to kick his lying ass to the curb. Everyone debating the finer points of health care when there's nothing they can do until after the election and that at the whims of Congress. Stand up for our democracy and freedoms, please, and enough of criminals in government.

Yeah, R288.

We have to remember that as ignorant and stupid as Trump is in many ways, he did pick up some techniques & strategies from his years as a sleazy businessman and as a tabloid celebrity/reality t.v. star.

Remember also that as Carl Bernstein pointed out over the past year, Trump also picked up some of his tactics from the infamous Roy Cohn, who was one of his mentors.

Unless we can charge him with treason (or something similar that will remove him from office immediately) or he does something so outrageous that he has to resign immediately, all this fake outrage is just pointless. The republicans already signalled that they won't do shit about it whatever it is bc it is "politically motivated". So my bet is by the end of next week, we're already discussing the next scandal.

No dear, he's doing exactly what the Speaker wants him to do, forcing her to hold Impeachment hearings and then a vote to Impeach. Which will pass in the House and go to the Senate. It doesn't matter that they won't convict, he's still going to be Impeached.

The Dumpster Fire and his toadies pretend they don't care about Impeachment, that it would be just great for him! But they are actually living in deadly, desperate fear of it. And their Ukraine Extortion scandal is going to push it over the edge.

Tipping Point!

Good times.

R291 I think you're right. The less savvy Trumpies think impeachment will fire up his base.

What they're not counting on is the Supreme Court backing full disclosure of all the materials the Executive Branch has related to potential crimes. Privilege does not apply in a coverup.

It does sound like Ukraine's President is more likely to go public. Were he to testify before Congress, that would be devastating to Trump. The Republicans won't be able to squirm away from that, and the Democrats will draw it out as much as possible. Creating a complete narrative of every action by Trump and all of Trump's men in furtherance of illegal demands won't just damn Trump. It will damn all republicans and they'll jump as fast as they can.

The rats that desert a sinking ship are the rats who survive.

The House voting in favor of impeachment will show that the Democratic Party did what they could within their limited power. The Senate refusing to convict will show the US without a shadow of a doubt that they cover for a criminal and, at the least, are co-conspirators.

With that it will be very difficult for Putin and the right wing media to explain why Trump won re-election.

Impeachment hearings in the House followed by the Senate next year can help our House and Senate candidates a whole bunch. Even if the Senate won't convict, the timing is good and it's useful.

Doing it this year, not so much. We'd have blown through it, then sent it to the Senate, then he has too long to run around saying how "exonerated" he was (even if he hadn't been, obviously).

And the beauty of the whole thing is how deeply he deserves the humiliation we will heap upon him.

We'll get a Blue Wave and then, of course, have to pass fifty fucking laws to keep criminal fucking presidents from ripping us off, destroying our alliances, refusing to staff the US government, taking money from foreign governments, telling 12,000 lies, putting their idiot sons in law in charge of Mid East peace and generally acting like the goddamn Retard Mafia.

My cousin's a diehard Trumpist. She was a welfare mom who lived in subsidized housing, and worked a minimum wage job. He deadbeat ex never did pay his child support for their kids. Well, her kids are grown, married and gone, and have a college degree. So she was a good mother. (with a lot of help from her parents.) When I last saw her at some family gathering, we had a political discussion, and her thing was "I just like his personality. He doesn't take any crap and he's fun to watch." That was the sum and substance of her interest in Trump. He was familiar to her. She was a fan of the Apprentice and loved it when he insulted and fired people. So instead, I tried to frame my comments a different way. I talked issues. I didn't get into the weeds, but I pointed out certain basic stuff about healthcare and other "kitchen table" stuff. I pointed out that you can love someone dearly, like them, they're fun at parties, but you wouldn't hire them to handle your bank account or perform surgery on your kid, would you? My whole approach was to try to bring her along on issues and to "give" her her affection for Trump. Not attack her or make her feel stupid. She voted Blue in 2018 because of healthcare.

R295 here. I think some times people are looking for a rationale to abandon Trump without abandoning Trump. Now the problem is that with Fox and other news out here, they get caught up in believing absurd shit. I did lie to my cousin, told her I never watch the news because it just upsets me. I have "better things to worry about." LOL! But I do think my method and my tactics can be effective way to pry some people away from Trump.

Climate change and destruction of the environmental regulations are a good place to start. Everyone can relate to it.

I hope that the Democrats are going to demand some answers next week as to whether tRump sent Rudy to the Ukraine to pressure them into getting dirt on Biden and whether, in August, tRump tried to pressure the Ukrainian president into complying with that demand in exchange for releasing taxpayer dollars that had already been approved by Congress.

Pretty simple. Either this happened or it didn’t. If it did, then he has to go.

R297, my brother in law is a Trumper, and doesn’t care about the environment because it doesn’t affect him, personally. So, no, that thinking doesn’t work with the base that supports Trump .

They've been "demanding answers" since Trump was sworn in, R298. They have yet to get any.

[quote]Climate change and destruction of the environmental regulations are a good place to start. Everyone can relate to it.

We sure do, libtard, just not the way you want

R295, how about this analogy for your cousin: Trump is like your crazy drunk friend. Your crazy drunk friend was fun in high school, and your crazy drunk friend was fun in college. And then you got married and had kids and had bills to pay, and your crazy drunk friend is still a crazy drunk. And now having a crazy drunk around is not so fun any more.

WaPo: Giuliani met with an aide to the Ukrainian president in Madrid and spelled out two specific cases he believed Ukraine should pursue.

ª One was a probe of a Ukrainian gas tycoon who had Biden’s son Hunter on his board

• Another was an allegation that Democrats colluded with Ukraine to release information on former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort during the 2016 election.

“Your country owes it to us and to your country to find out what really happened,” Giuliani said.

The bottom line is a whistleblower. Someone heard something so bad they had to use the whistleblower protection to report it. There are whistleblower laws to protect people in these circumstances. This shit has to be bad.

[quote]Impeachment hearings in the House followed by the Senate next year can help our House and Senate candidates a whole bunch.

The Kavanaugh hearings may have cost Senate seats. You also need to keep in mind there are moderate Democrats in red areas and these people are the group that Pelosi is protecting.

Pelosi knows how to count votes and wants to protect the house majority long term. Her majority rests on the new seats won last year, many in districts that trump carried by large margins.

If she doesn't have 218 DEM votes, she would be a fool to bring it to the floor now.

That said, there should be hearings, investigations and witnesses testifying.

I just assume that it was Rudy's job to float the quid-pro-quo. Why else was he involved? Because he's such a great investigator? Please; I don't think the man can even walk unassisted anymore. He's a bagman at best. Trump never says the words himself. They act like mobsters, these people.

But all that aside, even without the quid-pro-quo (which any child could play connect the dots there) there is still a criminal case here. These people are flushing our country down the toilet all so that they can hold onto power. Traitors, all of them. Fuck every person with an R after their name if they don't stand up now.

Are the Mueller Thread clique still posting Lindsay Graham memes and giggling to themselves?

Great thread here!

R277, you're wrong

Did anyone else see WaPo reporter Carol Leonnig on MSNBC last night? She said they have a source who confirms Trump tied the US aid money to Ukraine providing dirt on the Bidens. She was very careful in how she worded it, but it sounds like they believe the source but now just need someone to provide corroboration.

Rudy will claim that as Trump's private attorney he was merely trying to get to the bottom of the relationship the corrupt Hunter Biden had with the Ukrainians. Irony is that Trump has relationships with all the Russian Oligarchs close to Putin as their money launderer.

If this does get legs it's Rudy Giuliani who will be thrown under the bus in order to take the heat off of Trump. I think that's the best we can hope for.

[quote]Irony is that Trump has relationships with all the Russian Oligarchs close to Putin as their money launderer.

It's only bad if Democrats do it, ya retard!

The whole whistleblower thang is probably fake. Just more red herrings for the Democrats to get hysterical over (and fail at resolving).

Dotard's calm, cool demeanor at the press conference (and later at the state din-din) tells me he's behind the whole thing. All people will remember is "Joe Biden Son Corruption Scandal!".

I definitely see them throwing Rudy under the bus! It will be fun to see TBH. Dump will claim me never asked Rudy to hold the aid hostage. Rudy will howl, and just like that, another Michael Cohen.

I can see tRump throwing Rudy under the bus — however, I don’t see how he avoids responsibility for the phone call where he pressured the Ukrainian president eight times to either comply with the demand or lose the military aid.

R290 In what possible and reasonable universe is this outrage, over withholding US aid from an ally in order to get personal gain from it, "fake?" Will there be another scandal in two minutes? Likely. Will the scope and noise of this administration's circus stunts and corruption obscure the truth, and wear down opponents? That's the pattern. Will the President and his supporters care less about this behavior? Yes. But none of that would lead one to define outrage over this latest scandal to be "fake."

To understand how corrupt the situation with prosecutors in Ukraine is, you should read about Kateryna Handzuk. She was burned do death by sulferic acid on the orders of a prosecutor who was working for a member of parliament.

The lead prosecutor claimed non-existent evidence to get five suspects released, changed the cause of death and has prevented investigation into politicians connected with the murder.

Who’s the lead prosecutor? Lutsenko - the same guy Rudy and Trump rely on for their dirt. The same guy who was finally forced out in 2018 for corruption

Even the Wall Street Journal is reporting on the Ukraine thing now. (They rarely publish anti-Trump stories, letting NYT and WaPo break those)

At what point can the democrats involve the courts? There must be someone they can sue in this administration for this repeated corruption and obstruction, no? Fucking sue their asses already. They should also do anything right now to get their lying asses in front of the supreme court. I'm so sick and tired of press conferences, letters or Senate hearings and the corruption just continues and they all get away with it.

As I understand it, there has to be an active impeachment hearing. Thats not just Schiff’s unsupported efforts. It has to have legal standing where the committee has voted to pass this to the floor, and the Speaker can then authorize legal action against the President.

If I remember this, the question is who has standing. A member of Congress, even of the committee may not have standing to compel the President to submit. It’s a question of who speaks for Congress.

Stop making excuses for the inaction in Congress. It does not matter who or how many seats Pelosi is supposedly protecting...if we lose 2020...and there is a HIGH probability we will due to election interference like 2016...it wont matter at all because Democracy and life as we know it will be dead. Seriously, nobody mentions what will likely happen if we lose...they keep saying we have to have overwhelming majorities...but even then, if there is fraud or interference it wont matter.

I'm not sure Putin can commit fraud on that grand a scale, which is why they keep insisting that we turn out in massive numbers. Trump only won by 11K votes in three states that were very close calls. I don't doubt those votes were manipulated. But that's not the same as changing hundreds of thousands or even millions of votes. I think that's why Trump is so nervous. If he knew he was going to win no matter what, he wouldn't be acting so nutty.

The only time I’ve ever seen Trump speak the truth on live TV was his appearance on “The View” when he said that he would be dating Ivanka if she wasn’t his daughter.

r323....voting systems....nuff said

[quote]Rudy will claim that as Trump's private attorney he was merely trying to get to the bottom of the relationship the corrupt Hunter Biden had with the Ukrainians.

A private attorney is supposed to be about a person's personal liability. What is Trump's personal liability with regard to Hunter Biden and Ukraine? How was he personally impacted and why would he personally be a side in this matter?

Trump could allegedly claim investigating corruption but only as the agent of the American government aka as President, and only if the matter is detrimental to the country and the American people - not to him personally,

So Rudy has no business as his PERSONAL lawyer to go and pressure heads of state on behalf of the office of the president.

R326 Exactly. The line crossed here is Rudy represents Donald Trump, private citizen. But he appears to have acted without legal authorization in communication of a threat to President Zelazny. He can be charged with violating the Logan Act.

This should happen today. If Ukraine charges him, we should honor the extradition request.

Don't look for Ukraine to do our business. They need U.S. assistance and may not walk into a direct confrontation with a POTUS.

I expect that is correct R328. They’re familiar with corruption and dictatorships. They’re on eggshells.

If Congress authorizes direct transfer through NATO so Trump can’t screw with it, and ensures a sustained support package with affiliation they’re likely to talk to Congress, EU and ICC investigators. But their security has to be assured.

At this point, I think Trump could rape a child on live television and the republican Senators and his base would still find a million excuses for him.

That baby was clearly flirting with him!

"that baby was a democratic plant"

That baby voted for Obama! Clearly Trump didn't rape the baby, he performed an exorcism!

No new details?

Yes, R237 but since it's a federal crime, wouldn't the DOJ have to initiate charges and you know that fat corrupt fuck Bill Barr isn't going to do that. Believe me, I'd love to see Rudy hauled off in handcuffs in an orange jumpsuit, but the idea that DOJ will man up & do their jobs seems dubious at best at this point.

[quote] No new details?

Yes, it's starting to look like another goose egg.

R335 Forget DC. Any of the *independent* federal prosecutors can investigate. For example, Southern District of NY can initiate an investigation as Rudy already asserted he met with the Ukrainian former prosecutor in New York City.

The Ukrainian foreign secretary said there was no pressure to investigate what Biden did, so the press ends up with egg on the face again.

R338, we haven’t heard the story yet. Hold your eggs.

Except R338, Giuliani--the President's attorney--has repeatedly said that he WAS pressuring Ukraine to do exactly that.

I would expect that other foreign nations were also monitoring the call. It would be nice if one of our allies just said Fuck It and released a tape of the conversation on the internet. Of course Trump will say it's fake news, but if it's public information, that may break through the wall of calling it classified.

I’d love Nancy to announce an impeachment investigation as Trump delivers his speech to the UN. In between laughing at him the delegates will be glued to their phones.

[quote] Forget DC. Any of the *independent* federal prosecutors can investigate. For example, Southern District of NY can initiate an investigation as Rudy already asserted he met with the Ukrainian former prosecutor in New York City.

Sorry R337, but they are not that independent. They are under the direct supervision of the Deputy Attorney General and the AG. As a former DOJ official and federal prosecutor, I can assure you that before the US Attorney for the SD of NY opened an investigation into Rudy, he would get the blessing from Barr and the DAG.

Now, that said, the Assistant US Attorneys in NYC are ball-busters. If Main Justice blocks what they believe to be a legitimate investigation, they’ll go right to the press — anonymously, of course.

R343 In the saner, older days I would expect the AG to step aside and assign a deputy AG to oversee this if on,y to create a legal firewall against potential obstruction charges. It seems all bets are off with Barr.

as blatantly corrupt as Trump's behavior has been, repub media and repubs are going to keep pumping their base into believing it's Biden and his son who are corrupt. Now honestly Hunter Biden did use his father's name to get the job and is otherwise a fuckup but nothing is comparable to the corruption Trump is currently exhibiting. Trump is a fucking national security threat and don't forget his own children are continuing to profit from his occupancy of the office of Presidency. This is going to be the new Uranium One scandal sadly.

You are absolutely correct, R344. In the old days, the AG and the DAG might both have recused themselves out of an abundance of caution. Same with the US Attorney. They would have let senior career prosecutors in SDNY handle the case under the supervision from Main Justice, specifically the late Jack Keeney in the Criminal Division and the late David Margolis in the DAG’s Office, two revered, senior career DOJ lawyers who were often called in on matters of great significance and sensitivity like this.

Now? Not a snowball’s chance in hell would Barr give up control. The consequences be damned. This crowd hasn’t met a conflict of interest that they aren’t willing to ignore.

R346 Thank you for that happy reminder, when adults ran Washington. The David Margolis. The Yoda of DOJ.

I knew the name was familiar. His wit was legendary. The crack he made before Congress when asked “How many people work at the Department of Justice?”

He answered “About 60%”

Yes, R347, one of David’s great witticisms. He and I were friends as well as colleagues (for three years my office was next to his). I heard all of his stories and anecdotes. One of my great regrets is that I didn’t write down those fascinating tales and try and get David to agree to having a book written.

[David once had a guy working for him who was less than productive. The lawyer found another position and when the prospective new boss called Margolis for a recommendation, David said, “You would indeed be fortunate to get him to work for you.” The lawyer got the job and Margolis got rid of a headache. 😂 ]

The state attorneys general are independent of Barr and his corrupt DOJ. NY's Letitia James is fierce and I would not be surprised that she's got something baking in the oven.

stop callling it nothing. You don't make a whistleblower complaint over nothing..

Completely agree, R349. NY AG James is probably working on several criminal matters involving tRump and his family. But, I can’t see her office having jurisdiction over the whistleblower’s allegations, which seem to be exclusively federal in nature.

R348 WaPo cataloged some of his famous quips.

[quote]NY's Letitia James is fierce

Thank you, Boo.

Hmmmmm, now what should we order out for lunch today?

Oh that's right. Have to get my nails done at 11am and then off to my afternoon massage.

Being an AG is so time consuming....

Trump has changed his tune on the whistlebower. Friday, he or she was a "partisan." Now it's "spy," as he quotes Fox News nutcase Gregg Jarrett:

“It appears that an American spy in one of our intelligence agencies may have been spying on our own president."

Translation: Trump has learned that there is indeed corroborating evidence of his perfidy so he's going to play the victim and attempt to destroy the whistleblower.

He’s all but conceded that he asked eight times for the Ukrainians to reopen the closed investigation into VP Biden and Hunter Biden. The key question now is whether tRump also used the threat of withholding the already approved military aid to add to the pressure on the Ukrainian president. Cheatolini is a common organized crime thug, who learned hardball tactics from that slimeball Roy Cohn, so the likelihood is that he did. The Trumpanzees are now — backed into a corner — arguing that there was no quid pro quo, and therefore nothing improper (hoping we will ignore the impropriety of the request on its own.)

This would be an excellent time for them to send the whistleblower complaint to Congress — as required by law — and to release a transcript, which would definitively show what was said.

Can Congress give the whistleblower immunity from federal crimes?

I guess I'm stupid but why would the Ukraine have dirt on Biden?

r357, they were supposed to have evidence that Biden meddled in Ukrainian's affairs for some other foreign entity (you know, what most Trump's associates are guilty of). Making it easier for Putin to take over Ukraine and "free" it from that foreign entity's grasp.

Not quite, R358. The story is that he meddled to get an over-zealous Ukraine prosecutor, Viktor Shokin, removed, one who was going after his son, Hunter, who was on the board of a corrupt company, Burisma Holdings, that the prosecutor was trying to take down. The story, of course, is completely false, as the timelines don't match and there is zero evidence to support any of it.

The prosecutor in question was the real corrupt official, doing enormous damage to Ukraine's legal system and blocking any attempts to reform the broken legal system or to root out corruption in the Yanukovych regime. The U.S. and the EU told Ukraine they had to get rid of him. The investigation of Burisma Holdings had terminated a couple of years earlier and there was zero evidence that it had reopened or that Shokin was in any way interested in Burisma or in Hunter Biden.

Oh, you mean kinda like how our DOJ is corrupt AF now with the traitor slob Barr running it?

Like that, r359?

Maybe the EU and the Five Eyes need to, oh, IDK, leave a donut in a bear trap near fat Billy's office and snag the disgusting puke in it.

R359, wasn't Hunter Biden actually appointed to the board as a corruption watchdog?

Has any of the shit that Tarot reader predicted come true? Someone is always posting her clips but I don't take tarot seriously so don't pay much attention.

Politico:

Giuliani charges 'this town protects Joe Biden'

R361, damned if I know. That doesn't appear in any article I can find. Here's one that discusses his appointment and it looks like Hunter Biden does sort of hint at something like that:

[quote]"Burisma's track record of innovations and industry leadership in the field of natural gas means that it can be a strong driver of a strong economy in Ukraine," Hunter Biden said in the statement on Burisma's website. "As a new member of the Board, I believe that my assistance in consulting the Company on matters of transparency, corporate governance and responsibility, international expansion and other priorities will contribute to the economy and benefit the people of Ukraine."

That's kind of a boilerplate response, though, that could mean just about anything. The original full press release doesn't appear to be still around.

So, as planned, the scandal about the President seeking to use US aid as leverage to force a foreign power to give him a personal advantage... turns into discussion of Joe Biden's son. Right.

[quote] R357: I guess I'm stupid but why would the Ukraine have dirt on Biden?

Don’t expect Trump to make sense. You’ll recall he castigated President Obama for allowing Putin to take Crimea and invade eastern Ukraine. He asserted that he wasn’t responsible for it, since it happened before he came to office.

What he did not do, was offer any condemnation of Putin for being the aggressor. He didn’t state how he would have prevented Russia from doing this if he had been President when it happened. And he didn’t identify what he would do, now, to induce Russia to, at least, withdraw it’s military from eastern Ukraine territory, even if only the land outside of the Crimea.

So, it doesn’t make any sense at all. It’s just words that sorta sound right, with lots of indignation, but signifying nothing.

R357, for all we know, the Russians suggested that he harass Ukraine. I can’t believe that he and Giuliani thought of it by themselves.

R366 "But it was a great invasion, really good. People say it was the best invasion anyone's ever seen." Trump-speak that is performance, self-reverential boosterism, without meaning.

This is so exhausting. Democrats have now been in control of the House for almost a year and we haven't even seen something as simple as the President's tax returns. Democratic leaning states should have made the tax returns a stipulation for the 2020 ballot, but only CA has the balls to stand up to Trump. If Obama was withholding his returns, I guarantee most of the south would have made it a state law for candidates to disclose that information.

I don't understand the end-goal of Democrats. Do we have some sweeping legislation to present to the American people? Are we going to hold people in contempt of Congress for ignoring subpoenas? What have we accomplished? The Tea party brought scalped the Democrat's plans from 2010-2012, they were fighters willing to risk it all just to say they won. Where are our fighters?

This may sound crazy, but I feel like AOC and her ilk, are the only people fighting to do something under Nancy's watch. I am just over it all.

R369, the Democrats have already passed numerous bills and they have numerous investigations and lawsuits underway on the Trump administration. What more do you want them to do?

R369=Veruca Salt

Aside from the 140 million dollar bribe, you know damn well that this goes beyond Biden....Trump also cancelled 750 million to assist in fending off Russia from the surrounding countries. Trump probably said something like, capitulate to Putin because I wont defend you.

The end goal, R369, is to re-take the Senate and win the White House. How many times does this need to be said? Right now, the Democrats have a narrow majority in the House. I believe that Republicans enjoyed a greater numerical advantage from 2010-2010.

Thats all fine and good r373....BUT WHAT HAPPENS IF WE LOSE IN 2020 DUE TO MEDDLING AND DIRECT ELECTION INTERFERENCE ? File a lawsuit ? Write a strongly worded letter ? These are not normal times and we are dealing with an international crime syndicate who have no qualms about interfering to help Trump.

[quote]Democratic leaning states should have made the tax returns a stipulation for the 2020 ballot, but only CA has the balls to stand up to Trump.

A judge has already ruled against CA's attempt. It's just a temporary injunction at this point, but it will be upheld.

I'm betting Mitt Romney consulted with Susan Collins before tweeting this -- she gets to keep "concerned," he gets "troubled."

@MittRomney: If the President asked or pressured Ukraine’s president to investigate his political rival, either directly or through his personal attorney, it would be troubling in the extreme. Critical for the facts to come out.

Romney must already have dreams of a run for 2020 in his head since it’s looking more and more like Trump is outta there by early winter.

[quote]@MittRomney: If the President asked or pressured Ukraine’s president to investigate his political rival, either directly or through his personal attorney, it would be troubling in the extreme. Critical for the facts to come out.

I’ll give Romney credit for being that broad and not citing that "no quid pro quo" bullshit qualification. A blind man could see that there was a quid pro quo, but even without it, his actions aren’t remotely acceptable.

Now fucking do something about it, Mitt.

r377, don't count your Trump chickens before they hatch.

Just saying we've been so sure he was finished many, many times before.

And now a word from Miss Lindsay who got off Grindr long enough to remind you of her existence (less you forget) and talk about some silly thang involving Russians, Chenchens, Uruguay or some such thing. Nothing to see here AT ALL. (sorry for linking to the Washington Examiner, but only this paper & Fox bothered to cover whatever she said)

Who the fuck CARES????

Send Lindsey to me.

Send Lindsey to me.

[quote] the Democrats have already passed numerous bills and they have numerous investigations and lawsuits underway on the Trump administration. What more do you want them to do?

I would have liked for the Democrats to have gotten together and agreed on a plan of action for this weekend. They should have all been singing — loudly — from the same song sheet. They should have fanned out and pounded home a few points:

1. The DNI is violating the law and he must turn over the whistleblower complaint immediately or face a contempt of the House citation.

2. The Intelligence Committee is going to open an inquiry into the complaint.

3. tRump’s demand for the Ukraine to help dig up dirt on Biden, if true (it is) is a very serious violation of Cheatolini’s oath of office and is an impeachable offense.

4. Whether there was an overt quid pro quo is irrelevant. The violation exists with or without a direct threat of withholding military aid.

5. This substance of the complaint against tRump has absolutely NOTHING to do with VP Biden and the press should not be suckered into transforming tRump’s transgression into an opportunity to fault Biden for some fictional claim.

6. It was highly inappropriate to send Rudy —a private citizen — to the Ukraine to pressure the Ukrainian president to reopen the closed investigation.

Really, this is not too much to ask.

Everyone should send r384’s post to their reps and senators.

And you're 100% correct about the need for a unified, consistent response. This is where the Republicans know their shit. They march in fucking lockstep.

Isn't Rudy in violation of the Hatch Act?

Rudy doesn’t work for the federal government, R386, so he’s not covered.

Somebody needs to tell the Dems VERY VERY LOUDLY that their messaging absolutely sucks balls. In this swamp of endless bullshit clear messaging is crucial.

[quote]The Kavanaugh hearings may have cost Senate seats. You also need to keep in mind there are moderate Democrats in red areas and these people are the group that Pelosi is protecting.

Good point.

The Kavanaugh Supreme Court hearings were rough on the red state Democratic Senators last year.

I remember tracking the Senate numbers at this time last year and the red state Dem Senators were doing okay, but once the electorate became polarized over the Supreme Court battle, the numbers tanked for the red state Dems.

- Donnelly in Indiana had been in a decent position at the start, and ended up losing by a wide margin

- McCaskill had been in a close fight with Hawley in Missouri, but then went down by a large margin

- Manchin in West Virginia started out with a good lead, but had a close call winning by only 3 points

- the only red state Dem Senator to do well in 2018 was Tester in Montana, who managed to increase his level of support, despite Trump visiting MT 4 times.

Wrong, polls showed the Kavanaugh hearings hurt Republicans more than Democrats

Democrats play defense even when the GOP is not attacking

R390, I want to believe you but what’s your data backing up your claim? Are you saying the Kavanaugh hearings hurt Republicans in general? That’s not really what Poll Troll said—he said specifically it hurt Democrats in red states.

The Democratic Party is the party of don't do anything that will cost us votes. That's a hard party line to get behind.

R392, polls at the time showed that more Democrats were motivated to vote because of the Kavanaugh hearings than Republicans

R392, polls at the time showed that more Democrats were motivated to vote because of the Kavanaugh hearings than Republicans

I don't think there ever was a "whistleblower". Trump and Ghoulardi have been trying to push the Biden/Ukraine thang into the headlines for a while now, but nobody cared. So they fell on a plan to invent a whistleblower, throwing chum into the water to create a media feeding frenzy.

The Republicans desperately want Elizabeth Warren to be the Dem. candidate, for some reason.

R396 that occurred to me as well—sort of a reminder of the Canuck letter. Nixon and his cronies were behind it... they wanted to destroy Muskie and run against McGovern and that’s exactly what happened. Muskie self destructed and Nixon clobbered McGovern.

I think there was a whistleblower. But I also think this was an attempt to "pick your opponent." Smearing and weakening Biden now, smearing and mocking Elizabeth, and Kamala has had bots going after her, just a few months ago it was Beto getting his ass kicked. They go after who ever looks strong, and they definitely go after people they want to knock out early.

I disagree, R398. Trump keeps saying that he wants to run against Biden, which means he's lying and does not.

Also, attacking your opponent by committing a blatant crime, and having your attorney actually admit that you committed at crime, doesn't effectively make the point that your opponent is corrupt. Nixon, the master, would not have done something so absurd.

R390, the Democrats did well in the House races and won back control of the House of Representatives, but the Kavanaugh hearings hurt the Democratic Senators in the red states. Tester of Montana was the one exception to that.

It wasn't all Kavanaugh -- part of it was the Trump effect that started in 2016 by making the red states redder & the blue states bluer, etc. But the Democrats lost ground in Fall 2018 in most of the Senate races in red states, and even in purple states like Florida where longtime Democratic Senator Bill Nelson went down.

The bright spots for the Dems in the Senate races were picking up 2 seats in the swing states of Nevada and Arizona. That helped minimize the losses in Missouri, Indiana, North Dakota & Florida.

Also worth pointing out that Claire McCaskell's email account was hacked by Russians...

[quote] Trump keeps saying that he wants to run against Biden, which means he's lying and does not.

Call me crazy, but I think that the reason Trump is pissed is because the Whistleblower screwed him over. Trump believed he had something on the Biden family he would have used later in the election campaign when Biden is the Dem nominee, but now that so called dirt gets leaked and there is more than enough time to show that the dirt is nothing but fake news. He, and the right wing media, can't use it against Biden in the election campaign now.

The WSJ (owned by Rupert freaking Murdoch) debunks Trump and Rudy's stupid conspiracy theory.

Why must it be Ukraine. "Let me say this, I don't see any reason why it would be." Why not Erdoğan, the Saudis - Israelis, or BFF Putin

Why not Norway. Or Denmark.

The point is the POTUS asked a foreign power to interfere. Biden shbiden is irrelevant. Do not let them distract you.

“At this point, the bigger national scandal isn’t the president’s lawbreaking behavior – it is the Democratic party’s refusal to impeach him for it,” Ocasio-Cortez said in a tweet on Saturday night.

“It is one thing for a sitting president to break the law. It’s another to let him. The integrity of our democracy isn’t threatened when a president breaks the law. It‘s threatened when we do nothing about it. The GOP’s silence [and] refusal to act shouldn’t be a surprise. Ours is.”

I agree with AOC.

Just DO SOMETHING!!!! 😡😡😡😡

Reuters:

Ukraine official says any investigation would be transparent: report

R399 I agree with you. Trump doesn't really want to run against Biden....which is why I believe he is trying to smear him now. And yes, their scheme blew up in their faces. Maybe they can keep repeating it and still insist that up is down for their base of supporters who can't find theirasses with both hands. But their entire scheme is to smear and weaken anyone who poses a threat, and try to steer the nomination to someone they can beat easily. They're going to try to manipulate the process for the Democratic nominee. They're using social media and fake news constantly and sowing anger and dissatisfaction where ever they can to demoralize and discourage. Which is why I also repeatedly urge people to turn off the noise. Focus on ballot security and getting a huge turnout.

Politico:

Schumer demands hearings, subpoena over whistleblower complaint

How stupid does he think people are? His kids run around the world with him making deals (or seeking them) with Saudi Arabia, China... and he offers a penthouse to Putin for a proposed Trump tower in Moscow while running for President. Meanwhile there is nothing to the Biden story.

I watched a bit of the Untouchables recently. They had a mountain of things to put Al Capone away with- but managed to nail him on tax evasion because it was hard to nail him on the rest because of his manipulation of the law, judges and cops. Sound familiar?

We really do have a ganster president straight out of the Roy Cohn playbook- his mentor. He was disbarred for cheating an old lady on her estate planning after a lifetime of breaking the law and destroying people's lives with his tactics.

I continue to be astounded by the GOP support until I realize they all remain glued to FOX "News".

Rudy's tweet per Faux:

"If Dem party doesn’t call for an investigation of Bidens’ millions from Ukraine and billions from China, they will own it,” he tweeted. "Bidens’ made big money selling public office. How could Obama have allowed this to happen? Will Dems continue to condone and enable this kind pay-for-play?"

Giuliani titled his first tweet, "NEW FACT," and said Hunter Biden received a one-time payment of $3 million from the Ukraine that went through Latvia and then to Cyprus, before entering the U.S. Giuliani did not provide how he learned about the purported transaction but said prosecutors were stonewalled at the time when they inquired about the sum.

So we're supposed to investigate Biden but not Trump? Wow, Rudy's senile

You could have seen how they were going to play this from a mile away. The Republicans are going to hammer away at this until the cows come home. It also looks like the media will be doing their duty of carrying water for the Trumps by spreading this bullshit Ukraine conspiracy whenever possible. There was A LOT of that going on on msnbc last week and not just by the Ken Dilanian types who LOVE this “both sides” bullshit.

On a related note though: Why is Hunter Biden such a mess? Didn’t he begin an affair with his dead brother’s widow leaving behind the mother of his children?

R414 Rudy's not senile. He knows exactly what he's doing. Not so, his opponents.

So in addition to extortion and solicitation of campaign assistance from a foreign government, Trump and Rudy are also now guilty of using secret US intel for political purposes? How else to explain Rudy's claim at R413?

Yeah, Rudy's accomplishing just what he set out to do -- get "corruption" and "Biden" on everyone's lips. Biden's greatest strength is his perceived electability. Get voters to second-guess that by linking him with a nonsensical "scandal" (like they did with Hillary) and someone Trump would prefer to face may come to the fore.

Scandal? You're soaking in it!

Mike Pence looks like an old woman.

Rudy Giuliani has never gotten over Biden’s “noun, verb, 9/11” crack, just like Trump never got over Obama’s jokes about him.

Too bad Rudy didn't get down to the World Trade Center just a few hours earlier.

Someone should just randomly ask Rudy about his current whore of a wife and how that all came to be.

Ken Vogel of The New York Times (and the one with ginormous ears) is one of the aforementioned media water carriers.

This is like a vast vat of festering pus calling a mosquito bite toxic. There is not bottom to the depth of the trump camp evil and corruption.

Yes he is r424 and we should be prepared to push back hard!

[quote] "The conversation I had was largely congratulatory, with largely corruption, all of the corruption taking place and largely the fact that we don't want our people like Vice President Biden and his son creating to the corruption already in the Ukraine."

That was what the racist, sexist, irresponsible imbecile said to reporters yesterday. The man is a complete idiot.

He said “largely” three times in one sentence?

Yeah his little presser in front of helicopters - as the norm - was fucking bizarre. The man is coo coo for coco puffs!

Rudy has no executive privilege, His sons have no executive privilege. I have no idea what Ivanka does that makes her an employee. But, there you go.

They can try to stonewall what they’ve been doing on behalf of the President, but they’ve private citizens. Either they’re violating the Logan Act or they’ve illegally been leveraging the Oval Office to solicit gifts snd contracts.

Subpoena them, and when they refuse have the Sergeant at Arms take them into custody. Use space in the Canon as a detention facility and compel their testimony.

[quote]So we're supposed to investigate Biden but not Trump?

Have you possibly been in a coma the last three years?

[quote] DJT: We had a very great conversation (with the Pakistani President). Very straight, very honest conversation.

He spared us his repeated claim that he and other leaders had a “very nice” meeting. His repeated comments about how nice his meetings are, tells me that he usually goes to meetings where people are swinging from vines and screaming at him. Which sounds about right.

The White House just released the transcript of the phone conversation. As you see, it’s perfectly innocent.

Ukrainian President Guy: Thank you for calling. This is a nice conversation.

Trump: Yes. The nicest conversation.

Ukrainian President Guy: I stand corrected. The nicest conversation. You’re doing such great things in the US. You’re truly making America great again. Is it true that black unemployment is at its all-time lowest?

Trump: Yes.

Ukrainian President Guy: And yet you never get enough credit. A lot of people are saying that you don’t get enough credit. Anyway thank you for calling. I very much enjoyed not talking about Joe Biden with you. Oh, and can I just say from the sound of your voice I can tell your hands are huge.

Well, that does read like a very nice conversation, r433. Very nice.

LMAO, r433!

Are you absolutely sure that’s the whole transcript R433? I would have expected Ukrainian President guy to have mentioned the size of tRump’s electoral college victory and the gigantic crowd at the inauguration. Maybe it was the next time they spoke.

R416 Time to call bullshit on these "conventional wisdom" put out by Republicans and their trolls, and too often accepted by the self-doubting Left. No R416 Rudy does NOT know what he's doing compared to Dems NOT knowing what they're doing. Witness the 2018 congressional election where Rudy ranted on immigration and "the Caravan" and begged for a rejection of democrats to deny the impact of "fake news." Record turnover of seats to Democrats was the result. Thanks Rudy.

R437, the Democrats certainly had a good result in the House in 2018. It was the largest Dem pickup of House seats since Watergate in the 1970's.

And some of the results for the Republicans were historically bad. Eg. the Republicans were wiped out in Orange County, CA for the first time since FDR was President.

Oh look they are still accusing Obama of doing stuff.

Has Nancy evolved much yet on impeachment?

Something's afoot r440.

Hope so R441 Lost a lot of time. Hemorrhaged away a lot of political advantage. Reneged in duty for far too long.

I find Ken Vogel rather sexy and would like to see him in a jockstrap.

I found Vogel sexy too until I realized he's part of the problem. If you follow his twitter feed and keep a close watch on his articles, you'll see what I mean.

I wish reporters would ask Trump if Pence knew about his conversations with Ukraine. I would love to hear Trump's response.

As Carl Bernstein & Dana Bash said on CNN tonight, one of the things that seems to be helping Trump is that people are desensitized after the Mueller Report.

Because the Mueller Report didn't deliver a smoking gun, the public is now getting fed up with all the complicated allegations starting all over again.

Bernstein emphasized some of the similarities between Trump & Nixon in the way that each of them misused the office of the Presidency and stretched the legal limits of what is Constitutional.

The right wing media is just good at establishing their narrative while the liberal response by the liberal media and the Democratic Party members is just timid. For the most part they just roll over and play dead.

R447 that's why we need a third party.

R447, it's not all the Democratic Party's fault. One of the problems is the moral degradation of the Republican Party over the past several decades.

Carl Bernstein & Dana Bash said on CNN tonight that virtually no Republicans in today's times are willing to speak out against their own President, unlike in the 1970's when there were some Republicans willing to hold Nixon to account.

Republicans and their supporters are waste of space and steal oxygen, and other important resources, from the rest of us.

[quote] One of the problems is the moral degradation of the Republican Party over the past several decades.

And why's that? Because they are not being held accountable for their actions. A playful slap on the wrist is all they get. Since they are so in favor of the death penalty why aren't they on death row for all the crimes they commit? They are a cancer that society needs to cut out for good. But instead they ask for the head of Hillary, because of her emails and the media humors them and presents it as a valid report of their concern.

The media holds both parties to different standards. The GOP gets away with the most heinous shit and The Democratic Party is raked over the coals for hating America, because they ask for affordable healthcare, cleaner environment, better education, and minimum wage and then the Democratic Party backtracks and get all defensive, because of some fake backlash.

LOLOL! Pay attention people. At R413 Rudy just described how he & Trump and others in that cabal launder money. Remember they're always projecting on to others all the shit they are guilty of.

And yes, please. Get on Twitter and facebook and also go to the comment section of the newspapers online and push back hard on Vogel and anyone else who does a sloppy, incomplete job. And push hard on Twitter. LOL! Ken Dilanian blocked me! So they do read it.

Bravo r451 Ken Dilanian is definitely working for GOP why does MSNBC keep him?

The Dems are meeting this afternoon. I suspect that Pelosi is going to get an earful, and that she is going to allow an impeachment inquiry to move forward. At this point she has to. Between Cheatolini and Rudy, they have admitted their attempt to have Ukraine provide allegedly damaging information about VP Biden. This cannot go unchecked. If there are no consequences to this illegality then we undermine any respect that is left for the rule of law.

Impeach this motherfucker now.

Pelosi's already getting an earful, according to WaPo:

Speaker Nancy Pelosi has been quietly sounding out top allies and lawmakers about whether the time has come to impeach President Trump, a major development as several moderate House Democrats resistant to impeachment suddenly endorsed the extraordinary step of trying to oust the president.

She was making calls as late as Monday night, and many leadership aides who once thought Trump’s impeachment was unlikely now say they think it’s almost inevitable.

Listening to NPR, analyze the situation yesterday afternoon driving home from work, and the lawyer said it was not "technically illegal " for Rudy to go there on behalf of his client to talk about help for the 2020 election, specifically getting dirt on Biden. It is unethical, but it's in a gray area and not necessarily illegal. BUT. If they can prove that Trump sent him there, and that Trump was withholding funds, in a quid pro quo situation, then yes that is a violation of the Law. What I find hilarious, is that it may well be that Rudy encouraged Trump to hold back the funds until he talked to the Ukrainians. LOLOL! And once again Rudy gets Trump in the shit. Which, Trump is perfectly capable of doing on his own, but the possibility that Rudy was part of it is delicious.

R454, Pelosi is not "getting an earful" in the sense that they are bitching. What is happening now, is that Pelosi has some Moderates who have been holding out, and they are ready to get on board. She has 245 members in her caucus. She is very close to some of them, and she "reads" all of them. She has to "read the room" very skillfully. Precipitous actions would undermine the process, and since she is in the line of succession she has to be very carefully of how it's perceived. I'd rather see her as reluctant than eager.

trump is a traitor

R455, just to note, whether Rudy’s behavior was technically illegal is not relevant to the impeachment inquiry. Nor does impeachment depend on the quid pro quo of the withheld military aid. Nevertheless, it would appear that tRump withheld the aid in an attempt to pressure the Ukrainian president.

TIME HAS COME TODAY

Pelosi is ready to impeach. Shit’s about to get real.

Bravo to Britain! The court struck down Boris' shut down as illegal. Will we see the US grow a pair some day too? I wonder what Pelosi thinks of their amazing Speaker Bercow.

R455 they did prove Trump blocked the funding of $400M to Ukraine before the call. His greasy little mcnugget fingers are all over it.

A question: Do we know now for sure that the Ukraine conversation is what the whistleblower was reporting? Because the way Giuliani brought it up voluntarily, hastening to add the absence of a quid pro quo, directed me that it probably wasn't.

Not that it isn't bad enough in itself, but could the real complaint be worse? and will everyone get distracted from ever finding out?

R446, the Mueller Report did deliver a smoking gun, it just didn't fire it. Trump could be impeached (and tried, if he loses the Presidency) over several of its points.

There may be some similarities between Trump and Nixon, but the DLer who mentioned Capone was closer to the money. Except that Trump is less Tony Soprano, and more a cross between the hapless Pussy and the out of control and none-too-bright Christopher.

Wouldn't it be funny if this did push Biden out and Sanders and Warren cancelled each other out? If Trump gets so compromised the GOP dumps him, we could see Buttigieg v Pence. Oh man, there's not a popcorn bucket big enough.

[quote]Wouldn't it be funny if this did push Biden out and Sanders and Warren cancelled each other out? If Trump gets so compromised the GOP dumps him, we could see Buttigieg v Pence. Oh man, there's not a popcorn bucket big enough.

No. Biden will be pushed out. And Warren will take all of Sanders’ support and will easily become the nominee. The only way Buttigieg will be on the ticket is as Warren’s VP.

R463, I think we do know that?

[quote]The potentially incendiary whistleblower complaint that reportedly involves President Trump, also at least partially centers on Ukraine, the Washington Post and the New York Times reported Thursday evening.

It's been a bit confusing, as there were also suggestions that the whistleblower complaint involved more than one conversation.

[quote]During a closed-door briefing with the House Intelligence Committee on Thursday, the intelligence community inspector general revealed that the [bold]whistleblower complaint centers on a series of actions, not just a single phone call[/bold]. Inspector general Michael Atkinson did not answer questions about who was referenced in the complaint. (Emphasis added)

At this point, we need that whistleblower complaint and the IG report.

[quote]Trump, speaking at the UN this morning, on impeachment talk:

[quote]"I think it's ridiculous. It's a witch hunt ... That call was perfect. It couldn't have been nicer ... There was no pressure put on them whatsoever. But there was pressure put on with respect to Joe Biden."

How many times must a criminal confess before he is held to account?

Wait please.

I suspect that Nancy and the leadership know more than is available to the public. That's the only reason I could think that she's willing to steer the ship in a different direction. If ANYONE knows the saying, if you come to shoot the King, don't miss, it's Nancy

Please let this happen. He looks very constipated talking to the UN, his eyes are squinting like he's trying to pinch one out. This motherfvcker needs to go. Preferably to prison.

Ken Vogel was excoriated on AM Joy on Sunday morning. The whole panel went after him.

R469, that's probably the curse Greta Thunberg put on him. Did you see that death stare when he ignored her?

Trump is afraid of Greta.

R447 No, this is right wing puffery and talking points. The truth is the "Right Wing Media", and Republican politicians who are the Echo Chamber, are very disciplined about the messaging. Right wing thinktanks (often traced to Koch funding) develop the poll-based descriptions of ideas and principles leading to policies that ultimately advantage the uber-capitalists. On the other side, there is no "one" Democratic or center-left media source. There is no coherent, single source of Talking Points. It isn't even a question of "discipline", there is just great variety of principles, values, proposed policy.

"americans will never FIRE or TIRE their pursuit..."

Trump still can't handle 6th grade reading. Or he knows he's about to get fired.

Who on Putin's staff wrote this tired UN speech? It's awful.

Who on Putin's staff wrote this tired UN speech? It's awful.

Most likely it's a Stephen Miller speech. He does all the awful speeches.

Word in DC today is that they will be moving forward with impeachment. Buckle up. This is going to be a wild ride. If we thought he was unhinged before, just wait. He’s going to squeal like a stuck pig.

I think that is why we are already seeing people turn on each other at The White House and hearing about whistleblowers, etc. They know they are truly fucked now.

I don't know why it appears she's changed her policy, I'm just glad she has.

Yeah, feels as if it has moved to a new phase.

Politico: President Donald Trump on Tuesday shifted his explanation for temporarily withholding hundreds of millions of dollars in military aid to Ukraine, citing what he criticized as a lack of similar financial contribution by other Western powers to the Eastern European nation.

Trump’s latest remarks are at odds with his assertion Monday that he denied the assistance because he feared bureaucratic corruption within Ukraine’s government.

The Democrats really have to go forward with impeachment now; if they back off after all this, they will look even weaker than usual.

Held up aid because Europe didn't pay in enough? Really? That is what your going with after nearly a week?

I wouldn't get too excited about this. The Republicans are always five steps ahead of the Democrats, and this sounds like a trap. Trump already said he knows who the whistleblower is and that they are "partisan". He's following a script.

Was that ever a factor for granting military aid? It seems that Congress would have considered that before they approved the money.

[quote]Trump already said he knows who the whistleblower is and that they are "partisan". He's following a script.

Last I heard, he said he didn't know the identity of the whistleblower, though that didn't stop him from labeling the person a partisan.

R485, I disagree... the messaging this week from Dump has been horrendous. It changes daily. It’s not consistent and he looks like an asshole.

Nice try, R485, trying to convince us that Dump has some grand master plan here.

“He’s playing 64th dimensional chess!”

Q

R488, it changes hourly. Last night and this morning, WH officials were denying that there had been any attempt to hold up aid to Ukraine. Then Trump admitted that was exactly what he had done.

Biden should sue Cheeto for slander..this is ridiculous and baseless

I agree, r492, but that would put Hunter under a microscope and he knows Hunter is a fuckup.

I can tell you all right now that this is going to be bloody as fuck. I hope they’ve got him. I really, really do.

Sadly, his supporters will never believe any evidence presented against him. Last night, FOX News spun this story to fault and criminalize the Bidens, & that’s what they will all go for. Think of everything these crooks and liars in office have to lose if Trump doesn’t win 2020. We’re about to watch the nastiest fight in government history!

Get him out!

Politico:

The intelligence watchdog at the center of Ukraine firestorm

Correct, R494. This is going to be ugly x 1,000. His supporters are already conditioned to believe any news that is anti-tRump is fake. So, no matter what facts come out they will simply ignore them. But 65 percent of the country will want this treasonous felon out of the WH.

Yup there are enough of us!

Lock him up.

Now.

Hopefully it is a blood bath like Watergate. All of em are corrupt. LOCK THEM ALL UP. Hillary is somewhere laughing and sending emails.

^^LOL!

WW for R499.

WW for R499.

Michael Isikoff:

Senate intel opens up own probe of Ukraine and is seeking an interview with the whistleblower this Friday.

The whistleblower is ready to speak with Congress.

Oh Happy Day!!

Adam Schiff:

We have been informed by the whistleblower’s counsel that their client would like to speak to our committee and has requested guidance from the Acting DNI as to how to do so.

We‘re in touch with counsel and look forward to the whistleblower’s testimony as soon as this week.

Trump has only one strategy: Confuse and distract. He says a million things, contradicts himself constantly, and uses "Look over there!" a lot until his audience, and his opposition, is just overwhelmed and gives up.

Roy Cohn taught him to double down whenever he's getting accused of something. "Puppet? No, you're the puppet!" Is from that very playbook. You sue Trump? Trump sues you for a gazillion bucks with some bogus claim and drags it out until you give up (run out of money).

All of that is ultimately useless, R507. Especially now.

r508, since he's POTUS he'll create a new distraction: Starting a war.

A war is just not going to work at this point. It’s not 1995.

Nope, R509. Ain’t gonna happen. I loathe him with every fiber of my being but I’m comforted by his reputation so far as that of someone very skittish of entering us into conflict. He was urged to hit Iran a few weeks ago and pulled back at the last moment.

r510. It will be a test how powerful the right wing media really is to establish their right wing narrative and make it look like it's public opinion.

A war would enrage his base. They are not over Bush and Iraq.

His base will believe anything he says. If Trump says that a war is necessary and the Dems are partisan pussies who rather focus on dear, innocent Trump than keep America safe again then his base will believe it. But it should force the right wing's hand to show how much support they really have when the anti war rallies and demonstrations get the media attention.

[quote]A war would enrage his base. They are not over Bush and Iraq.

His base was also for free trade, lowering the deficit and isolating Kim Jon Un ... until Trump told them they weren't anymore.

Between what Schiff just said and what Pelosi is about to say, I'm starting to feel hope again for the first time in ages.

A Nixon-era Dem Congresswoman who sometimes vomes on MSNBC just said that regardless of the transcript Trum releases, Congress must get the tapes of the calls - because during Watergate they first got doctored transcripts where words were deleted and such. They realized that when they got the tapes.

Another MSNBC pundit said that Congress should ask Ukraine for their own transcripts and tapes of the phone calls.

Of course we need the full whistleblower complaint in addition to that "transcript", which is probably being doctored, let's be honest. Why else would it take him a week to release it? It'll probably end up being another Barr "summary", anyway.

Moscow Mitch has just called for fast-tracking release of the whistleblower report per John Heilleman on MSNBC.

Trump met with the President of the Ukraine one on noe after his UN speech. The Ukraine, according to Foreign policy analysts, is determined to have a good relationship with the US because they have to keep the Russians off their backs. Good luck with that. Trump is Putin's puppet. Funny. Bolton was said to be furious with Trup's unwilling to go to war with Iran. Bolton was also critical of Trump's "policy" towards Russia. What a fucking mess. Now. I don't trust the transcripts. They're bullshit. I don't care where they come from. The Ukraine has a ton of corruption That's why they were everyone's favorite whore. They Ukraine could doctor transcripts to help Trump out if they think there's something in it for them. But fortunately other Intel agencies in Europe will have transcripts. LOL! Another thing. THis Whistleblower. He better be for real. Trump and Rudy and the WH are stumbling all over themselves trying to get their stories straight. Now McConnell is telling us he didn't know abut the delay in aid? LOLO! The rats are scurrying around trying to figure out how to jump.

Moscow Mitch backing away like that is a big tell! He knows what's coming down the pike is a shit storm and he's starting to distance himself OR he knows that Barr will fuck with the evidence.

Just remember. Trump delegated sweeping powers to Barr about clearances for Intelligence. Barr sees everything and he determines classified etc. This happened very publicly a few months ago.So Barr has already seen a transcript and he already knows what the acting DNI is dealing with. Barr is going to try to spin this and white wash it. He may even block the Whistleblower from testifying. It will take a minute, but withing the nert 48 hours they will have a coherent response that will play well. Now. Watch what Fox News does. Because if they turn on Trump, it's over. Hannity won't Ingraham won't Pirro won't. But the News program might.

Trump's schtick is Biden. He said on TV after his UN speech that he did talk about corruption with the President of the Ukraine, and told him they "both needed to do a lot to root out corruption, like with VP Biden and his son, who were corrupt in their dealings wit h the Ukraine. Trump spoke strongly about the need to "do something about all the corruption!" LOLLOLOLOLL! Maybe he thinks the Ukraine is his special province and he resents any attempts by anyone to get some of that.

[quote]Moscow Mitch has just called for fast-tracking release of the whistleblower report per John Heilleman on MSNBC.

Ha! It’s going down if even MM is stepping away from Trump.

Don't get too optimistic. Mitch fast tracking something may very well be a tactic. The fact that Senate Intelligence committee under Burr wants to talk to the Whistleblower is scary. Do not Trust anything the GOP is doing right now. THey will do a rescue mission before they decide to jettison. Remember how Flake said all the right things and proposed a delay when the Dems on Senate Judiciary wanted to reopen the Kavanaugh investigation? Flake persuaded the GOP members to go along with it, and then we discovered that the WH was involved and limited the investigation and fast tracked it to benefit Kavanaugh? So Flake was playing us. I don't trust those fuckers. Pay attention.

When this story first broke, the speculation was that the foreign leader Trump spoke to was Putin. Multiple times. Now it's the Ukrainian Prresident. So what I would like to know is whether Trump did in fact tal to Putin. Because I believe Putin and Trump did talk. And Trump probably bragged about how he would hold back $400,millllion in aide from the Ukraine for Putin. And they used the Biden shit as cover.

Biden gave a really good statement. It was actually Presidential.

I agree R525. That the whistleblower is conferring with acting DNI Maguire (who downplayed the seriousness of this whole thing in cahoots with Barr) on how to testify reminds me Meuller getting guidance from the DOJ (Barr) before his testimony. And we all know how that turned out.

Now obviously the whistleblower has do this as a matter of professionalism, but I no longer expect some singular white knight to provide that tipping point.

Plus McConnell's fast track tactic smells like a ploy to bury this ASAP.

This is all moving FAST.

The Senate just voted unanimously to get the whistleblower report to the Senate Intel Cmte. So will Trump/Barr refuse to release it to them?

Not if the Republicans on that committee are thoroughly briefed on and well rehearsed with the WH talking points to frame the narrative.

[quote] R444: I found Vogel sexy too until I realized he's part of the problem. If you follow his twitter feed and keep a close watch on his articles, you'll see what I mean.

Thank you, R444, but I thought there was no homework here?

Vogel is sexy. I like guys with big floppy ears. Not Marco Rubio, though.

Pelosi's statement was brilliant. Dignified, serious, and historic. She gave Context, she talked about our Constitution. She referenced our History. I love her.I have always loved her and I have always always supported her. Class all the way.

Turtle and the Senate want it first so they can spin it and lie before the Democrats have a chance to see it.

That's how they operate. The Senate is corrupt AF with turtle pulling the strings.

Washington Post:

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi announces formal impeachment inquiry of Trump, says his actions were a ‘betrayal of national security’

R534 They'll make shit up just like Trump.

Now that hick John Kennedy is saying that Pelosi only announced that "the impeachment investigation continues" and isn't a big deal because she's not presenting actual articles of impeachment.

Now he's running with the "Ukranian oligarch hired Hunter Biden" spin.

I would love to see him stroke out on-air.

Me too, R537. Leave it to Louisiana to elect a malign Gomer Pyle.

The Week:

Why Democrats want the whistleblower complaint — not just the transcript of Trump's Ukraine call

Please. No way should anyone trust a WH transcript. tRump will have gone over the thing redacting it with his Sharpie.

[quote]Dem Congresswoman who sometimes vomes on MSNBC

Pics please.

R540 Trump is living his best lie.

Damn Trump looks like absolute shit!! God I hate him!

Biden speech was good but he kind of sounds like his dentures are loose or ill fitting.

The thing is - everyone knows a White House transcript can't be trusted. But this administration is so stupid and overly confident that it will be quite obvious when they've redacted or edited. You can bet that someone in the press or someone in the gov't already has this and can't wait to compare the actual transcript with the fiction that Barr and Trump deliver.

This will be the best impeachment ever, believe me. You won't believe how good it is, like nothing you've ever seen before. Everyone is saying nobody does impeachment better than me.

Cross-posting from the Treason thread:

MSNBC Congressional reporter heard from Congressional sources that Pelosi and Trump had a phonecall earlier today, in which he asked her, Can we do something about this whistleblower complaint?

And she allegedly said, What you can do is follow the law.

[quote] “What you can do is follow the law.”

Ha!! Don’t fuck with Speaker Pelosi.

[quote]Please. No way should anyone trust a WH transcript. tRump will have gone over the thing redacting it with his Sharpie.

You mean his lawyers will have gone over them; dumbass Dump's reading comprehension skills don't go much further than "Dick and Jane".

This on MSNBC: The transcript has been downgraded to “notes” taken by WH staffers.

Notes. 🙄

Ha. I’m sure they’re typing them up right now — and making sure that Barr approves them.

The transcript will go something like this:

"Hello, President Trump! I just called to tell you how slender, sexy, and handsome you are!"

"Trump has only one strategy:"

And that strategy is to taint and tangle up the Democrats in an ugly, fruitless impeachment wild goose chase they will lose l9se epically.

That's why Dotard is everywhere this week: catch me if you can. And he had his hair re-blonded and skin tanned.

It's a trap, people. Trump has the transcript, and knows that he carefully avoided impeachable vernacular; the whistleblower is a Republican 'plant' (or as he has called them, "partisan"- nice touch); he got free, yuge publicity for Biden's shady dealings (which is all anyone will remember from this).

Meh R552 he should still be impeached

R552 gives Trump way too much credit. He's just not that smart. And the conspiracy theory about a Republican "plant" is just ludicrous.

Nah, R552. You’re giving him too much credit. First of all, the facts that he and Rudy have admitted to indicate that he should be impeached. Second, the IG — a former federal prosecutor who is a straight shooter and would never be complicit with these traitors — has already found the complaint to be of “grave concern.” He would not have made that determination unless the facts warranted it. So, no. This is not a trap.

r552 is a troll (as if you needed me to tell you that).

Tweet by David Avellone:

Of all the impressive things Nancy Pelosi has done in her life, turning Chuck Todd into a real boy today might be the most miraculous.

The whistleblower's law firm has put up a website.

Website from the whistleblower's law firm.

This HAS to be bigger than we are aware of right now.

Expurgation alert: per Fox News (the website), WH will release whistleblower complaint to the extent “legally possible.” So no, it might not be released. Mind you, the WH should have no control whatsoever over this process. And since this info comes from Fox, I assume it’s straight from the WH.

Yeah, not sure why the WH is in the middle of this. It stinks. And the letter on the law firm’s website from the General Counsel for the DNI, makes all manner of claims but never says that the complainant’s identity has been properly protected. It mentions protecting the whistleblower from retaliation, but doesn’t say that the complaint has been kept confidential. Word is that it has been circulated all over the WH — which is not permissible.

Has anyone checked on Leningrad Lindsey or Moscow Mitch? How are they coping? I hope the entire rogues gallery who have supported and been complicit with Dump's crimes are unable to eat, sleep. and are spending inordinate amounts of time on the porcelain throne because of FEAR...I can only imagine how much that pig Barr is sweating right now.

Has anyone checked on Leningrad Lindsey or Moscow Mitch? How are they coping? I hope the entire rogues gallery who have supported and been complicit with Dump's crimes are unable to eat, sleep. and are spending inordinate amounts of time on the porcelain throne because of FEAR...I can only imagine how much that pig Barr is sweating right now.

Yaaaawwwnnnn..... Poor desperate liberal fools. Another try, another failure.

Thank you Pelosi, you nasty, vile old cunt, for personally taking on the task of getting President Trump re-elected! We The People appreciate your effort! Making America Great, KEEPING America Great!

All the liberal heads exploding on the night of November 3rd, 2020! Gonna be SO much more entertaining than when Cuntllary lost!

R565 Missed your meds?

R565, one thing Donald Trump will never do is be president longer than Barack Obama. And frankly, the joy I got from your misery in having a black family in the White House for eight years far outstrips any agita that I will ever experience over Trump.

So who gives a shit if he wins in 2020? He will never measure up as one of the greats.

"This HAS to be bigger than we are aware of right now."

How much bandwidth here was spent on the Mueller report, certain that it would end Tweety's presidency upon release?

My guess is that Republican Party is ready to cut Trump loose. They know he can't win next year. Biden as president would have been acceptable, but now that Warren is surging, there's a real chance she could win the nomination. A Warren presidency is just too risky - the only way to counter that is to get Trump out relatively quickly. Trump made it easy by being Trump.

I doubt that Barr is sweating anything. Pence, on the other hand, should be sweating bullets. It's not a done deal that the party would rally around him after Trump. The party might want someone more moderate to counter Warren. If the party decides they want Pence out, Pence has his own Ukraine problem that can be exploited.

Barr i in this up to his neck. he is navigating attempts to "negotiate " the whole situation. If the Democrats blink, and allow or accept anything less than the actual WHistleblower's complaint they are fools.

I’m here and I ready to run!

Maguire plans to provide Congress with a redacted version of the whistleblower's complaint according to the NY Times today. They're circling the wagons again to block disclosure.

I want to be hopeful but the full Mueller report is still out of Congress' reach. Barr and the GOP will stop at nothing to protect Trump and, especially, the party.

Well given that the Inspector General called it credible and urgent, and the law requires Congress to see it, the Court needs to expedite it. Since when does the fucking ACTING Director decide what he will give to Congress.

See the pattern? I hope Congress does. Mnuchin was asked to turn over the Tax returns. He's required by law to turn them over if requested. Instead he stalls. And stalls. And he is given deadlines, and he tries to negotiate. Then he stalls some more.

WTF are the tax returns? Where was the contempt citation? What is the status of the request? Did they issue a subpoena? Is it languishing in court? Same with Barr and his summary of the Mueller report. He did promise the House Judiciary committee an unredacted copy. WTF is it? Contempt citation? Then what?

Now, when the law is very clear, a fucking "acting" director is going to fuck with Congress on a urgent intelligence matter? And we have an attorney general who supports and encourages and guides this kind of response. And the WH tries to distract with transcripts of phone calls? Please.

Congress better be really really tough on this one. Seriously. I don't want stall tactics and delays. There is no reason they need until the end of the week. What part of urgent do they not understand. They ought to turn it over or fail huge trouble immediately.

R572,the Mueller Report according to the way the Special Prosecutor law was written, all Mueller was supposed to do was turn his report over to the AG. But in this case the Law is very clear. This Whistleblower complaint has to be turned over to the House Intelligence committee. it was described as "urgent." So they better not be playing political games...and getting away with it.

We don’t want any fucking “notes” or WH redacted versions of the complaint.

Turn over the documents. Now.

Who are you carrying water for, R552? That is absurd.

Impeachment is THE STORY right now no matter how many times these GOP fuckwads keep trying to steer the media to this Hunter Biden non-event.

You sound like a Republican shill of some sort. You’re not as covert as you think you are, dear.

"I'll need for you to do me a favor" should be the headline everywhere.

Dems need to repeat that till the cows come home.

Because Mueller would not state the obvious “Trump & his campaign colluded with Russia” he emboldened Trump to do it again - collude with a foreign government against a political opponent.

I’m happy if this leads to Trump’s impeachment but let’s all remember that Mueller let Trump get away with a crime, which led to Trump committing another crime.

Shame on Robert Mueller for muddying the waters

Mueller was a spineless idiot who thought other conservative would do the right thing while he can still remain dignified. A false hope from the start.

r578....you obviously DID NOT read the Mueller report and are only listening to peoples "version" of it. Mueller clearly stated the were numerous contacts between the Trump campaign and Russia...BUT...BECAUSE THE PEOPLE INVOLVED LIED, WITHHELS AND DESTROYED EVIDENCE, he could not establish a direct link. In other words, he said, here is what I found so far...you need to dig deeper than I was allowed because theres something here.

Randy Quaid supports Dotard.

R581 Isn't Quaid just quoting a Dotard tweet? I can't tell if he actually supports him or if this is some insane performance art.

It's insane performance art, r582.....

[quote] It's insane performance art, [R582].....

Which is on-brand for Randy Quaid.

Mueller gave wristslap punishment to people like Michael Flynn & George Papadopoulos for serious crimes.

Everyone thought it was because they gave him evidence about Trump campaign colluding with Russia.

If what you say is true R580, - that evidence was destroyed or covered up - then he gave them wristslaps in exchange for nothing.

R585, Flynn has not yet been sentenced. Judges sentence people, not prosecutors.

213 for impeachment

5 more to 218

What could the multiple other incidents be about?

Any guess?

Papadopoulos has been sentenced. Mueller recommended only 30 days to 6 months in jail for repeatedly lying to the FBI, concealing his dealings with foreign representatives, and his lying allowed a delay that enabled one of the persons who needed to be investigated to leave the country

[quote] Not only did Papadopoulos lie to investigators, the memo says, he lied repeatedly, after the agents informed him that doing so would be a “federal offense” and that the investigation was a matter of great importance. He falsely said “at least a dozen” times that Mifsud told him of Russia’s “dirt” on Clinton in Feb. 27, before he joined the Trump campaign, when in fact Mifsud had reached out to him in March 2016, after he had signed on as a foreign policy adviser to the campaign. (It was, Papadopoulos said, “a very strange coincidence” to be informed of the “dirt” before his association with the campaign.) He also downplayed the extent and subject of his communications with Mifsud and the Russian woman, falsely giving investigators the impression that he did not believe the two to have high-level connections to the Russian government. And when asked if he had met with any Russian nationals—or, amusingly, anyone “with a Russian accent”—he lied and did not tell the FBI of his communications with the Russian close to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

[quote] Papadopoulos told these lies in a voluntary January 2017 meeting with FBI agents at the Chicago field office, the memo contends. When he met again with the FBI in February 2017, he did not admit that he had misled the agents. Indeed, he sought to further cover his tracks, deactivated his Facebook account—which documented his communications with Mifsud and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs contact—and “obtained a new phone.”

[quote] The memo also makes clear that Papadopoulos’s lies were not harmless; they “were intended to harm the investigation, and did so.” Most importantly, his dissembling prevented the FBI from detaining or arresting Mifsud in Washington, D.C., in the winter of 2017. Mifsud subsequently left the United States, according to the memo, and has not returned.

Mueller should’ve recommended at least 2 years in prison for that. People caught with a tiny p amount of weed do longer than what Mueller recommended. Mueller is a disgrace.

I agree with the Hoarse whisperer. When the number of reps calling for impeachment will get to 216, we'll have at least three reps coming out for impeachment, so that none of them can be tagged as the 218th. We're very close now.

Oh, I'm sure Manafort and Michael Cohen would agree with that, R590. They got off so lightly. And, once again, the judge was not bound by Mueller's sentencing recommendation.

Yeah, back then we thought they got sweetheart deals because they gave Muleface some JUICY stuff. Really good shit that was going to destroy Trump. But that never happened, and all the perps walked.

Except... Manafort. But he still may be pardoned.

Funny how many politicians have had their grubby little hands in that inbred backwater of a country.

AP:

AP sources: Lawmakers, staff to view whistleblower complaint

Now Maguire publicly stated he never considered resigning. Just on MSNBC.

Hmmmm..

Hunny, I do not trust these people. I do not trust Barr or this Acting Intel guy, or anyone connected to Trump. And I believe that Mueller was thwarted by Rosenstein and later by BArr. I believe it was some of the lawyers who worked for Mueller, people on ihs team, that wanted to do scorched earth, and Rosenstein kept pulling them back. Mueller is the old school "protect the presidency" guy. He was weak. We were hoping he'd be decisive. But I had a feeling he wouldn't be. Because he seemed like he was on the verge of being fired so many times, yet he was allowed to stay. And at some point I had to ask myself why. And then Barr came in and shut him down. It is obvious from the loose threads dangling out there that he never completed his investigation. I cannot wait until some of the lawyers on his team speak up. But that won't happen in his lifetime.

The acting DNI will have to defend his actions on the WB complaint.

Threatening to resign or not is just a juicy aside.

Exactly, R598

[quote] Threatening to resign or not is just a juicy aside.

Who are you talking about?