The UK is breaking apart

Russian agents are the problem in the UK and in America. Putin found the way to split us up and that makes us weak.

I smell Putin's stink behind both Brexit's and Trump's Machinations. The man has conquered two Empires without firing a Single Shot.

R2 We have all the money and, therefore, all the weapons. Like a big steroidal jock, that gives us the luxury of being lazy and dumb and using our might. Russia has less money, but greater motivation to strategize.

TBH, I've always thought Northern Ireland should have been reunited with the Republic way back when.

R2 blames Russia every time his toilet overflows.

[quote]I smell Putin's stink behind both Brexit's and Trump's Machinations. The man has conquered two Empires without firing a Single Shot.

WWIII on the cheap. The U.S. is still building ships and submarines while Putin is using a laptop.

Most people use laptops at work, r6.

Than a for the info OP. Just confirms the Northern Ireland divide never went away. It annoys me to hear “Northern Ireland voted to stay in the EU” because the reality is the vote split is Nationalist/Unionist by a relatively narrow margin. I don’t think it will ever be as bad as it was - but this poll is a reminder that Unionists are liek Southerners in the US. They never really changed despite lip service to progress.

There are an international cadre of right-wing populists, who value nothing else but power, these are the new fascists.

The Republicans, if they win the next election, will find a way to have a Russian style democracy and permanent power.

The UK Conservatives want permanent power. Without Scotland, this is virtually guaranteed.

The Russians are less powerful than we fear, but more capable of launching asymetric attacks than we can imagine.

OP, couldn't agree more with you. And when it's not the EU fault they blame the French. In fact British have a tendency to blame the French for everything.

Well, in fairness, r10, it has to be somebody's fault, and obviously it can't be ours.

So that leaves the Frogs, the Germans, the Italians, umm, the...Spanish? Yes, the Spanish, and -- well, all those other countries. You know, those Europeans. Probably not the Australians, they're too far away. And not the Americans, they really like us. They can't wait to sign a free-trade deal with us, you know!

Where's Russia, actually? Behind Canada?

R11 Well i know what you meant and i get your sense of humor, but it's starting to look pathetic. If social medias taught me something about the French is that they don't have that hatred for British, including French medias. British medias are far too often in French bashing mode. I did not find a single French media talking about British as often. Not one, and certainly with such hatred. Farage, for example, this hypocrite insults them regularly even on Twitter while having a property in France. See, you, yourself call them frogs.

With the emergence of the Internet the other countries are noticing the xenophobia of the UK. They think British are crazy and hateful people. In Norway and Sweden I was asked why such a detestation. When I started talking about the history going back a millennium they laughed at me, taking care to remind me that they too, Scandinavians, invaded England, before adding that England also invaded France. French are England nearest neighbors. And even if some would vomit their denial of history, they are cousins.

Americans do not love the UK more than others. Do not confuse Trump and America. The UK are literally selling their soul to the US. In other words to Russia. It will take decades to British to no longer dying of shame. And it'll have to be somebody's fault.

typo * certainly NOT

BREXIT was a sympton of a culture breaking apart, not the cause of it. And in that regard, the situation in Britain isn't unlike that of America and several other European countries. I.e., deeply divided.

R14 Totally agree. And i have to admit that i also agree with you R12

Oh those Russian Facebook ads! They brought down the UK!

I lived in England from 2003 until 2009

I constantly heard people say they hated the EU and wanted to leave it. tony blair would never have a vote about it. Cameron wouldn't either, until he did. I SHOCKED that he did.

He's the one who should be harassed daily about this

is it really too late ??

R12 "Dieu et mon droit" (written in French meaning "God and my right") is the motto of the British monarchy since Henry V (reign of 1413-1422). This motto would refer to the divine right of kings, and would have been used as a password.

The British fear or hatred of Europe goes back hundreds of years before Putin was born. He's hardly the sole reason for Brexit. The reason Leave won was down to their lies. They didn't need Putin for it. I'm still to see any actual evidence of Russian involvement in Brexit. Some Facebook ads? Do me a favour.

The reasons for Brexit are long and complex. They're currently causing schisms in UK society the likes of which have unlikely been seen before. I've said this before on previous Brexit threads but Remain/Leave voting differences has caused entire generations of families to fall apart.

R19 you might want to look up the Norman Invasion. The motto is Norman, not French.

R19 Also here "Honi soit qui mal y pense", written above in French.

R21 Nope, as you see it's in French!

R23 It's Norman. It doesn't make sense in French.

R21 here's some thing that might educate you

"Dieu et mon droit", explanations

R24 Are you Russian ? It's literally French!

There is such a thang as Norman French you know. Channel Islands lawyers usually have to learn it at Caen before qualifying on those incest-islands of theirs. I have never heard anyone argue that Norman French is not French. It's like saying American-English is not English. Here's another one for you Russians to digest: "La Reyne le veult" which was used as recently as last Monday on the Hilary Benn bill.

OP, Leave or Remain?

After Scotland leaves the Union, the UK's permanent seat on the UN Security Council will be reallocated to the EU. France will be allowed to keep theirs.

Haha I like to tease the French but I don't feel hatred towards them. During the attacks in Paris in 2015, I felt it violently in me, I cried like a baby and in my neighborhood I saw many with red eyes. A lot of Britons went to Paris to gather spontaneously. I didn't want to leave the EU. I am European and proud of it. Just thinking about the brexshit disaster makes me sick. I'm not the OP, just a simple Remainer

r30 link please.

R32 Here ye go.

I do not understand why somebody here (looking at you, R5 and R16) always deny Russia had any involvement in fouling our election, and for that matter, Brexit.

[quote][Putin]'s hardly the sole reason for Brexit.

No, the divides that exist in our countries, and many others, were not caused by Putin or the Russians; they're just exploiting them for power and to bring down our nation's influence around the world.

Here in America, we have traitor Moscow Mitch who refuses to even allow any election security come to the floor for a vote because he knows Russia is as dirty as they come and involved up to their conniving eyeballs.

It's the perfect storm that they will study in history classes in 200 years; how America won WWII and squandered the opportunity to lead the world for centuries.

The concerns and conflicts in the UK about the EU predate social media/Ruyssian "involvement" by decades. Jeremy Corbyn, leader of the UK's allegedly "progressive" party, voted against joining, and voted against ratifying every single EU treaty afterward that transformed the EEA into the EU. He is a complete eurosceptic leading a party with a problem: its white working-class base in the industrial northeast voted LEAVE whilst the rest of it in the richer areas of the southeast (in England, that is) voted REMAIN. Despite the left seeing internationalism as Nirvana, the leader of the left in Britain, curiously, doesn't see the EU brand of internationalism as quite the kind he wnats. For one thing, the EU forbids nationalisation of public services, one of the cornerstones of a far-left revolution of the kind Corbyn still dreams of bringing out in England's Green and Pleasant Land.

It is a complicated issue and when many of the Lisbon Treaty's tenets take effect between 2020-2022, there will be more conflict and anger. Eventually, even with exemptions, the UK will come under tremendous pressure to adopt the euro as its currency. The Treaty will also enhance the EU Parliament's powers considerably, including over national parliaments and councils.

That Russia would like to impact European and American elections (in fact, it also allegedly tried the same on the German elections last year that ended Merkel's career) is by all odds true.

That it was the deciding factor is extremely questionable. It is dangerous to lay it all at Russia's feet because that would paper over the very real concerns and complexities that existed all along, and that Parliament, true to form, handled so badly.

As for Scotland leaving - please. This is the raisosn d'etre of the SNP's very existence and always has been. It has been the thing getting Nicola Sturgeon out of bed in the morning since she was 16 years old. The economic ramifications for Scotland are considerable given the shame of its debt and economy. It had a referendum in 2014 that returned a resounding NO to leaving the UK, which it joined in 1703 voluntarily because it was bankrupt, receives huge amounts of money from Westminster through the Barnett Formula, and once cut off froym the UK would list the trading partner for 85% of its goods, and then wait to join the EU like any other tiny country with bad books. It would be Denmark without the prosperity. It is not a flattened nation paying tribute to Rome, but enjoys self-rule to all intents and purposes.

Sturgeon is and has been for some time under fire at home for obsessing over independence at the cost of actually improving life in Scotland for the Scots. SNP lost a considerable amount of seats at the last GE even whilst keeping its majority. There are too many Scots with family/blood ties south of the Tweed to make such a matter simple. Many Scots also consider themselves British.

All of these issues are far more complex than easy sound bites render them, including the sound bite that Russia Did It.

^*apolyogies for the typos:

Russian

Shape of its economy (not shame, although there are plenty of Scots who might characterise it both ways)

It's a karma, serving them right for breaking up other countries in the past.

No one really cares whether they are in or out of the EU. At least the countries that count

And yes, Albania, Estonia and the like, no one cares about them

[quote]I do not understand why somebody here (looking at you, [R5] and [R16]) always deny Russia had any involvement in fouling our election, and for that matter, Brexit.

Conversely, R34, I don't understand why people like you immediately blame Russia for every fucking thing that goes wrong in their life including when Starbucks gets your order wrong. It's obsessives like you who make the Russia Russia Russia blame game such a pathetic joke.

Newsflash. Human beings will have various opinions. Nobody needs a Russian to be involved. But keep blaming Russia like the Westboro Baptist Church blames "fags" for everything from hurricanes to the end of civilization as we know it. You sound just as unhinged.

When it comes to politics, people stand fast with their choice. They automatically dismiss anything that goes against their choice and automatically believe anything that is for their choice. You see it here with people trying to defend Biden's dementia. They can see and hear him losing his mind and they refuse to believe it because... he's their guy. I don't know anyone who's changed their mind after seeing a political ad online or otherwise.

All political ads do is reinforce someone's opinion of someone.

Have you ever seen a pro Trump political ad and suddenly found yourself thinking "Oh wait. He actually seems like a really swell guy. I hated his guts 30 seconds ago but now I'm going to vote for him because this political ad told me to." If not, why not? After all, you're claiming people did the same thing in reverse when it came to Hillary. They loved her before the Facebook ad and then suddenly turned around and thought "That bitch. Fuck her. I'm not voting to her. I'm voting for Trump instead."

Great synopsis r39.

The ignorant folks, voted for something they did not understand. They should have been educated.

This thread is a mess.

I hate this, more than I can explain, but I can't explain. I would offer anyone from the UK (and that means England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland_ a place to stay while they work this out. I don't even have a tiny drop of British or Irish blood, but I still feel like they're my brothers. They buck me up and cheer me when I blunder about here on DL.

FFIW I have R39 blocked, which I only do to Trumpoids.

r44 you proved r39's point.

I proved R39's meandering, banal "point" that "people" just go with their biases? In fact, in line with my usual practice, I would have originally blocked him for some repeated defense of Trump and Republican policy based on straw man arguments and selective (or inaccurate) evidence. I don't have time for that nonsense.

Again, proving the point. Just stick your fingers in your ears, then.

[quote]stick your fingers in your ears

I also block people for right-wing projection. You're on thin ice!

It's imploding under nationalist jingoism. Result may well be a breakup as nationalism will mean different things to its 4 constituents.

Today in Luxembourg, Boris Johnson being booed.

Brexit has forced me to confront the inherent Lesbianism lurking in the souls of men.

This thread is indeed a mess.

As for people not understanding what they were voting for, they should be educated.

Well now - shall we apply that across the board to voters everywhere? Such as, for example, in Ohio, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, and Florida?

They understood exactly what they were voting for: Leave the EU or stay IN. It was David Cameron who didn't know what he was doing, not the voters.

r35 spouting the usual discredited Unionist twaddle about Scotland and its economy.

R53 - Right. Scotland really is just like Denmark, right?

85% of Scotland's trade is with the UK - that isn't a lie.

This is from The Guardian a year ago:

"Scotland ran a narrower deficit last year as a stronger performance from the oil industry boosted revenues, but the gap between government spending and income was nearly four times higher than the UK as a whole.

The latest Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland (Gers) data for Scotland shows that for 2017-18 overall state spending hit £73.4bn compared to tax income of just under £60bn, including oil revenues. That left a deficit for the year of £13.4bn, compared with £13.5bn the year before. Scotland’s deficit was equivalent to 7.9% of GDP, while for the UK as a whole it was 1.9%.

. . . But the comparative figures set out in Gers showed overall spending by the UK and Scottish governments was £1,576 higher per head in Scotland than in the UK as a whole – the highest subsidy in recent years.

Scotland has 8.2% of the UK’s population but absorbed 9.3% of the UK’s total state spending while its share of tax raised across the UK stood at 7.8%. The UK government said this meant the Scottish deficit was equivalent to nearly £1,900 per head more than the UK’s deficit."

And that was in a year when there were some improvements in growth fed by North Sea revenue.

For the record, I don't give a tinker's curse whether you stay or go. Not having a Saltire tattoed on my forearm doesn't make me a Unionist fanatic.

I'll be happy to provide in another post some pithy discussions of the problems in Scotland's primary and secondary education system,, which no one, including Wee Nic, will deny has declined badly in the last 30 years.

The fact remains that Scotland's public finances do present some serious considerations re complete independence that the country's FM keeps trying to slide over.

Pretty much the way the LEAVE contingent slides over the possible economic disadvantages of BREXIT, eh?

The parallels are quite interesting.

Fortunately, there's no need to choose. Northern Ireland will remain in the UK and the UK will leave the EU and everyone will adjust.

The NI lads that want to switch to Ireland are able to - they have dual passports (or at least they have the option). I'm not sure how it works if you are an Irish citizen and live in the UK, but they at least have the option.

Wouldn't it be nice if Americans and Canadians had a similar deal? I expect a lot of Americans would head to Canada and vice versa.

I like Canada, but it's kind of boring. I guess I'm just too used to the absolute insanity of living in the US.

When you walk around London streets (in all parts) - so many non-English languages are spoken loudly in public places - it's not a nice feeling for anyone born in the UK who speaks English are their first language (and this applies to a variety of ethnic backgrounds) - it's very alienating.

A lot of people who don't see the benefits of the EU and have to put up with the high immigration that the EU insists on - just have had enough - their not racists or xenophobic, they're sick of feeling like strangers in their homeland.

[quote]Russian agents are the problem in the UK and in America. Putin found the way to split us up and that makes us weak.

Britain is racist and insular enough on its own.

Most of England (including Wales) wants everything white again with defined class lines. It's almost as though they long for the good old days when it was just white Catholics against white Protestants. And for all the English care, Scotland could physically break off and sink into the sea.

R60 Did Britain have an issue with Black-British, who spoke English and went to Church of England or Methodist church services? I don't think British people have an issue with ethnicity - I do think they have an issue with cultures that don't assimilate and create ethnic ghettos and don't engage with the locals or chose not to speak English for the most part (even after generations).

R61 To say nothing of attacks, terrorism and the demands that Britain subsume its culture and values.

[quote]I constantly heard people say they hated the EU and wanted to leave it. tony blair would never have a vote about it. Cameron wouldn't either, until he did. I SHOCKED that he did. He's the one who should be harassed daily about this

Well I've done my bit

More Yankee hysteria. At least we're not rolling back lgbt rights and banning abortion like Agent Orange is in your dystopia.

[quote] I don't think British people have an issue with ethnicity - I do think they have an issue with cultures that don't assimilate and create ethnic ghettos and don't engage with the locals

Tell us about it.

[quote] I do think they have an issue with cultures that don't assimilate and create ethnic ghettos

Ethnic minorities create their own neighbourhoods because they were forced into them. A survey undertaken in Birmingham in 1956 found that only 15 of a total of 1,000 white people surveyed would let a room to a black tenant. As a result, many black immigrants were forced to live in slum areas of cities, where the housing was of poor quality and there were problems of crime, violence and prostitution.

Apart from those nasty Muzzies and garlic eating Poles, right?!

When Majid Nawaz - the biggest uncle Tom in the British Muslim community, an Israel lover who doesn't tire to demand that Muslims submit to the West - gets punched by some thugs for looking Middle Eastern, you know that British Islamophobia has nothing to do with Muslim refusal to assimilate and everything to do with hatred of dark skin.

[quote] Ethnic minorities create their own neighbourhoods because they were forced into them.

It's no longer 1956. No ethnicity is forced into their own neighbourhood. Unless by choice.

[quote]you know that British Islamophobia has nothing to do with Muslim refusal to assimilate and everything to do with hatred of dark skin.

R67 hasn't been outside his mum's basement since 1998.

R68 Nawaz was attacked earlier this year, not in 1998, imbecile.

Work on your replies, they're very dull.

R69 You obviously have a comprehension problem based on low IQ. Britain has suffered decades of Muslim terror, which you conveniently ignore. Your posts are ludicrous.

R70 First terrorist attacks by Muslims on UK soil took place after 9/11, lying dimwit. Actually there was an attack by an Arab group before, but it was aimed at the Iranian embassy, so I doubt you care. Before 9/11, UK Muslims were only involved in terror attacks as VICTIMS of white supremacists.

And let's not pretend the British are so innocent. You rain bombs on Iraq, then Iraqis will rain bombs on you. Seems perfectly rational, and polls show most Brits understand this - that there's a causal link between their wars on the Muslim world and Islamic terrorism.

Anyway, what does all of this have to do with Nawaz? He's not a terrorist nor does he blame Britain for being attacked by terrorists. He was attacked by those English thugs because of his non-white looks, and you're justifying that attack not because of anything he did but because of your parochial grievances against people of his ethnicity.

Could British racism be ant clearer?

And I'm sure leaving the EU will get all those awful brown Muslims out of the UK.

[quote]Wouldn't it be nice if Americans and Canadians had a similar deal? I expect a lot of Americans would head to Canada and vice versa.

A lot of Americans would be strongly encouraged to move to Canada, especially those who threatened to do so previously.

[quote]UK Muslims were only involved in terror attacks as VICTIMS of white supremacists.

More of your highly blinkered worldview. Mike's Place, Tel Aviv, British Muslim suicide bombers butchered 3 and injured 50. The Brits knew from the mid-90s that they had a Muslim terror problem, but like you, turned a blind eye, as long as the attacks were off-shore. Then London 2005 happened and oh shit, Britain had to admit it had a Muslim terror problem. And it flowed on from there: London, Manchester, Woolwich, suicide bombings, vehicular rammings, stabbings, acid attacks, and on and on. In addition to the on-going conflict with British social and political values.

Your condemning the attack on Nawaz as "racist", while ignoring decades of attacks on Britons of all races and ethnicities is indeed the height of hypocrisy. And indicative of YOUR racism and bigotry.

Yes r54 it does make you a “Unionist Fanatic” Your” facts “are Unionist fantasy. Oh and “Wee Nic”? Grow up. Off you fuck.

r74 Tel Aviv isn't in Britain, you fucktard dumbass. I'm going to say this again: there's no history of "decades" of Muslim attacks against Britons. On the contrary, ALL terror incidents in Britain before the turn of the century were perpetrated by white groups - Irish separatists, British unionists, and neo-Nazis. Talking about goddamn Israel doesn't refute this fact, retard.

And you ARE condoning, or least excusing, a racist attack on the pro-white bootlicker Maajid Nawaz, not because of anything he did, but because of his looks. He looks like a terrorist stereotype, so he gets punched. That is the very definition of racism. But you're such a low IQ white trash, you can't see it even as you engage in it.

R76 The ONLY thing that is indisputable is your hypocrisy, highly blinkered worldview, childish arrogance, racism and bigotry. Read your posts for abundant examples. S L O W L Y.

[quote]And I'm sure leaving the EU will get all those awful brown Muslims out of the UK.

Upwards of $75 trillion pounds strategically invested in real estate, media, education, political and cultural organisations by Gulf and Southeast Asian despots will ensure that Britain will quite happily continue to suck the dick that's fucking it.

Putin hatched the strategy of 'dragging the west down to former Soviet levels of cynicism/apathy/division' around 2001. 9/11, Iraq, and the global financial crisis + austerity did the job for him so he could park his plan, then Obama got elected and so he flipped the switch. He had to do a little more work in the US getting Trump elected and the EU has proven more resilient than he though but the UK rolled over like a bitch. Mission accomplished. Polonium tea for everyone.

[quote]A lot of people who don't see the benefits of the EU and have to put up with the high immigration that the EU insists on

The EU doesn't insist on that, the UK has its own immigration policy...there's just free movement within the member states for EU citizens

R65 Because Indians are so upset with Britain and the anglosphere that they are keeping away from Britain and the English speaking world in droves. Just ignore the figures of Indians migrating to the UK, Australia, US, Canada, New Zealand.

And the Australians aboriginals are so scourned they refuse to accept handouts from the evil Australian government.

Well you're right about one thing r81 - the Australian government is evil.

R81 Who told you that the Australians aboriginals are so "scourned" that they refuse to accept handouts from the Australian government?

[quote]When you walk around London streets (in all parts) - so many non-English languages are spoken loudly in public places - it's not a nice feeling for anyone born in the UK who speaks English are their first language (and this applies to a variety of ethnic backgrounds) - it's very alienating.

London is an international city and the foreigners do the stuff white folk won't do.

Some of the posts on the 'Is France Homophobic?' thread are clearly by Brits.

To add to what r84 said, many white Brits would rather be on benefits than do some of the jobs those foreigners do. They literally need them, especially the South Asians and West Africans.

The South Asians also take lots of Welfare Cash

They and the Africans prop up the NHS.

The statistics in R87 says 'Blacks' take 53% of support from the state

[quote]When you walk around London streets (in all parts) - so many non-English languages are spoken loudly in public places - it's not a nice feeling for anyone born in the UK who speaks English are their first language (and this applies to a variety of ethnic backgrounds) - it's very alienating.

This attitude is bizarre, whether expressed by a Briton or an American. I grew up not far from New York City, visiting fairly frequently, and always took it for granted that multiple languages were spoken in big cities (everyone I knew had immigrant great-grandparents, grandparents, or parents). That people from small towns or narrow-minded cultures resent this and find it alienating is a revelation that's dawned on my in adulthood along with a lot of explanations for the continuing bigotry and paranoia in my country, which would be better off if the little homogeneous communities had voting power more in proportion to their population.

This little homogeneous community in central Londonistan had voting power in proportion to their population.

This man (named Luftur Rahman) told his wives and his chattels to vote in a certain way but his trickery was discovered and then he was sacked.

মোহাম্মদ লুৎফুর রহমান; a.k.a. Lutfur Rahman,

A thread I posted yesterday about the recent revelation that Russia had been intercepting and infiltrating US intelligence communications since 2010. Someone very smartly pointed out that 2010 was the same year McConnell and plenty of the other GOP traitor scum came into power.

Whites take lots of welfare cash too!

Whites take lots of welfare cash too!

How is that, R93, relevant to this UK thread?

The only reason Muslim attacks on white Brits didn't kick in until around 9/11 is because Muslims wait until they've gotten a foothold in a country before they turn. When there is only one Muslim family in a street, they're "wonderful people." When they live in a third of the houses, that's when they start their shit. Same thing where I live. As soon as a minority expands, they insist on establishing their dominance and marking their territory.

R90 there is research to suggest the alienating sensation of being in public and the native tongue is not being spoken. It can evoke a sense of paranoia (are they talking about me?). Even the most liberal of people feel this alienation. It's not xenophobic, it's a reality.

The scope of other languages freely being spoken is growing - in work lunchrooms, on public transport, on the streets, in an office floor as well.

And there's a difference of decades ago when people migrated and they weren't expected to know English upon arrival, to know when they are expected to be 'skilled migrants with English language skills'.

I appreciate it may feel 'international' or 'dynamic' to hear multiple languages other then English spoken in a officially English speaking country, but unless its tourists speaking other languages, its unnerving for most people. Many people don't want it do be 'normal'.

R90 People don't mind languages spoken behind closed doors or in community groups - but it's a different story when its in public spaces and at work. It's simply rude by being exclusionary.

R90 Paranoia comes from not understanding other people - like, when they deliberately speak another language they know you don't understand.

You think Russia has two separate and distinct plans to disrupt the UK and the US and nothing about what they're doing overlaps, R96?

Come on, you at least have to remember how Cambridge Analytica was involved in both the Trump and Brexit campaigns, and that their data was accessed by sources in Russia, right?

R98-100, I have no idea what experience you're coming from, but most of us who live in towns and cities hear people talking in languages we don't know and we don't bat an eye, let alone feel "alienated" or "paranoid," because the people are talking to each other and what they're saying isn't any of our business.

[quote]Paranoia comes from not understanding other people - like, when they deliberately speak another language they know you don't understand

Are you by any chance the crazy-eyed Trumpoid who threatened to call Immigration last year on the two people speaking Spanish to each other at a table in a coffee place?

I remember how Cambridge Analytica was involved.

But I don't understand why intelligent people would pay attention to other people gossiping. I distrust all media nowadays.

R101 RUSSIA! RUSSIA! RUSSIA!

Can you post just one comment here on DL that doesn't mention Russia? Are you even physically capable of doing so? You're like one of those annoying people who turns every conversation into one about their chosen topic.

A family member could tell you they just found out they have cancer and you'd immediately change the topic of conversation to your stale Russia! Russia! Russia! talking points.

Insufferable. No wonder you're on DL all the time. Nobody wants to be around you in real life.

[quotes]As soon as a minority expands, they insist on establishing their dominance and marking their territory.

You have no idea bruh.

[quote]People don't mind languages spoken behind closed doors or in community groups - but it's a different story when its in public spaces and at work. It's simply rude by being exclusionary.

Why are you listening in on other people’s conversations?

I'm not the person you're quoting but it's very hard not to listen to other people's conversations when they're having it at full volume right in front of you. Or when they're serving you in a store and keep glancing at you as they talk gibberish to one another, making it very clear they're talking shit about you.

I was in a secondhand book store about a year ago which is run by and mostly frequented by Mexicans and I had to walk out because they were talking so loud and sounded like a yard full of gobbling turkeys. It was painful to listen to it. Spanish is a beautiful language but the Mexican version is far from it.

So you’d be ok with it if they were talking American?

No I hate anyone who speaks at full volume in public and I'm not afraid to tell them to lower the fucking volume. They think of it as marking their territory, forcing themselves on everyone around them. I'm not here for it.

The Wall may keep the noise out, Karen.

[quote]I don't think British people have an issue with ethnicity - I do think they have an issue with cultures that don't assimilate and create ethnic ghettos and don't engage with the locals or chose not to speak English for the most part (even after generations).

But that's RACIST!

[quote]I don't think British people have an issue with ethnicity - I do think they have an issue with cultures that don't assimilate and create ethnic ghettos and don't engage with the locals or chose not to speak English for the most part (even after generations).

White people don't do this? They do in the U.S. There are little towns all over the south and midwest with people of British Isles or German heritage who are extremely suspicious of Catholics or Southern European ethnics, let alone Jews or non-whites, and make things very uncomfortable for any such who happen to move in. Then, of course, there's the persistently Irish enclave of South Boston, where, I was told in the early 2000s, some people still are born, grow old, and die there without ever leaving South Boston! No doubt an exaggeration, or true for only a small number of people, but that's an Irish American community very comfortable with itself and only itself. Of course these people all speak English, like the surrounding country, but they refuse to engage with outsiders in the larger community in any meaningful way.

They're mocking at you in Farsi, Estonian, Tagalog and Urdu, r100. As are we in English.

Would love to see the demise of the monarchy in England. Bunch of insufferable bastards!

R114 = Susan Sarandon, wanting to burn it all to the ground

I grew up in Sydney Australia and it was part of the fabric of my childhood to hear people speaking in different languages on the schoolbus, at the supermarket, in restaurant kitchens, playing weekend sport and at the beach. That's right, racist ass Australia, and provided everyone is chill and polite, no one gave a shit.

I travelled my entire life and studied in 2 foreign countries. I have attempted to use foreign tongues via guidebooks with lots of sign language and wearing lots of apologetic smiles. It is so bizarre that is this day and age that is an issue.

If Kemal and Yazmina swearing in another language while fixing the broken coffee machine in the office lunch room brings on a bout of paranoia, you don't need Brexit, you need serious psychological help.

This thread isn't about you, R116. Start a blog.

R116 You may be OK with Kemal and Yazmina swearing in the office lunch room but emergency hospitals are chaotic if patients and doctors can't communicate.

Is "Karen" a relation of "Jan"?

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

It’s the results of globalization being felt. Not sure how it is going to work in the UK. The US has had 300 years and we haven’t figured out how to all get along. Not sure the whole world will be able to deal with becoming immigrant centers. The wealth is being shared - and those who are used to having it don’t like it and are voting against sharing it. Not a surprise - but a moral question.

The UK and the US are slightly different.

The US used to welcome the 'huddled masses' when they were needed but it has tightened up entry requirements over last half century.

The UK accepts 'huddled masses' and illegal immigrants eager for its astonishingly-generous welfare and it is bursting at the seams.

The UK is a relatively small island that already has a population of about 66 million. And that 66 million isn't evenly distributed, either. How much more can they take?

The 66 million population isn't evenly distributed and the wealth isn't evenly distributed.

The Working Class and the Welfare Recipient Class used to rely on the Labor Party to represent them.

But unfortunately the Islington Luvvies (like Diane Abbott and The Lady Nugee) have betrayed the traditional Labor Party voters,

R118 make up your mind. Are you paranoid about dark immigrants speaking a foreign language in ten street or in a hospital.

Or are you just paranoid?

When even the French speak more different languages on average than you, the problem isn't immigrants, it's you.

R126 Sorry in advance, I do not understand these statistics. French people speak French, Sweden speak Swedish, not another languages ? They only speak English when they have to talk with foreigners. Or maybe I got you all wrong ?

Try writing that IN English, r127.

R128 How's your Spanish or French lately ?

I had no idea the UK had a 'Labor' Party, r124.

R129 my French and Spanish is nonexistent but my German is excellent.

Try to avoid self harming anytime you hear a stray word of Balinese or Greek, mmkay?

R131 mmmkay! Maybe start by not being the laughingstock of the world with your xenophobic brexit? Unbelievable to speak with such malice and arrogance to someone just because she-he made typos in English! Such a crime!!! What it would have been if this person had written in Arabic... oh wait!

R131 *ARE non-existent.

When you want to correct others, try to be irreproachable. Idiot

R128 R130 and R131 Typically the behavior of a right winger here. Hateful and mean as fuck for no reason! On the top of that pathetic and ridiculous. I can feel how much you are a frustrated and miserable person. I'll pray for you, dumbass.

[quote]Sorry in advance, I do not understand these statistics. French people speak French, Sweden speak Swedish, not another languages ? They only speak English when they have to talk with foreigners. Or maybe I got you all wrong ?

Not r126 but don't you realise that there are French people who speak regional languages/dialects like Corsican, Breton, Occitan, Basque or German. In Spain, in addition to Castilian which everybody speaks, you'll find speakers of Catalan, Basque, Galician, Andaluz or Valencian. Italy is another interesting one. Most regions have their own dialects, which are technically not Italian dialects but full languages in their own right. Thus someone from Milan may be fluent in both Italian and Lombard. Another from Naples will speak Italian and Napoletano. One from Venice will speak Italian and Veneto. And someone from Palermo or Syracuse will speak Italian and Siciliano. Again, these are not dialects but actual languages. Lombard, for example, sounds nothing like Italian.

Just like there are speakers of Welsh or Gaelic in the UK.

LOL at Brits, of all people, complaining about foreigners coming to their country without speaking English.

'my French and Spanish is nonexistent but my German is excellent.'

It's the Hitler frau who screams about Sam Heughan being gay night and day.

About time too.

Brexit is a Little England endeavour and it's time England was once more on it's own

I'm sure the Ireland and Scotland will be just fine.

R138 the UK nations are far too intertwined for any of them to go it alone and "be just fine". Scotland voted against independence pretty recently. Its economy is heavily propped up by money from Westminster. Northern Ireland would have to join the Republic of Ireland and there are large parts of it that would never accept that. No-one's talked about NI independence because no-one's ever really thought about it as a viable possibility

No outcome would be "just fine" for anyone involved.

How is it that half the world was trying to get into Little England after the war?

Little England was actually quite a nice place and contributed hugely to the world's literature, universities, science, etc. - all without being in the EU. The term "Anglophile" wasn't a phrase developed after 1973.

The term used as a jeering epithet speaks to the ignorace of those using it of why so many wanted to get into Little England - including after WWII when the "empire" was dissolving and the country was in the grip of austerity whilst the victors rebuilt Germany.

Yes, do let's break up the UK and see how Wales and Scotland fare as tiny little and comparartively less wealthy, nobody countries without the cachet of their larger partner.

Well, NI will be reunified with the Republic of Ireland. The Protestants will head south into the welcoming arms of England, Scotland is welcome to float off into the Hebrides waving the EU flag, go on the euro, and become a tinier cog in an even bigger machine than the slightly larger cog it was in a much smaller machine.

Whilst England might just look around and, finally, at last unburdened of trying to be all things to all people, find itself free to be . . . English. Not British or faux-European, but English.

More than half of England has migrated to other countries throughout the centuries - the Americas, Australia, South Africa, Spain. You don't get to brag about the tiny migrant community you have today.

R141 - Yes, quite a few Europeans from France, Germany, Italy, Scandinavia, the Balkans . . . migrated to other countries, especially America over the last 200 years.

And yet, the things Italy, France, Germany, Sweden, Norway and the thing called "England" remain.

The "tiny population of migrants we have now" as of the most recent census recorded that 85.4% of England's population was White, 7.8% Asian, 3.5% Black, 2.3% Mixed, 0.45% Chinese and 0.44% of another ethnic group." Out of 53.5 mmillion out of Britain's 65 million - in other words, four fifths of the UK's population is in England, and of that, 85% is white. It just doesn't look that way in Bradford, Manchester, and London.

I would hardly call that a "tiny migrant population".

Reports of the death of English people in England, as always, have been greatly exaggerated.

R142 Correct. The french were already in America from the "start". Even before they helped for the American revolution. Louisiana was a French state. They also went to Canada. Quebec was originally called "Nouvelle France"

R141 - oh, by the way: Oxford and Cambridge were still producing scientists (the term "double helix" ring a bell?), writers, philosophers, etc., well into the second half of the 20th century.

We can, but don't really need, to go back as far as Spenser, Newton, Shakespeare, painters like Hogarth (all right, I'll mention Turner, Bacon, Freud, Hunt, Rossetti, Millais, and Constable) and Darwin, Halley, Tesla, or Austen, Dickens, Orwell, Wilde, Woolf, Eliot, Chaucer, the Brontes, Blake, Swift, Waugh, HG Wells, DH Lawrence, Maugham . . . did I forget the legendary children's authors? Nesbit, Stevenson, Burnett, MacDonald, Carroll, Kipling . . .

Yes, indeed. Quite a few left.

And quite a few stayed. Not bad for an insular little island.

The English should get credit for learning English as a foreign language, to help foreigners and themselves.

Face it: Brexit is karma for hundreds of years of colonisation.

It will be interesting to watch the 85% white population of Britain clean their own homes, build their own infrastructure, nurse their own elderly and heal their own sick when the migrant population leaves.

R146 - Oh for God's sake, the history of Britain doesn't boil down to 200 years of colonisation, any more than Belgium's or France's or Spain's does. Does Rome's domination of the world for centuries constitute the framework of all of Italian history? Does the Holocaust frame every last bit of German history?

Jesus, open a book, will you?

And by the way, the English were cleaning their own houses long before the EU.

Say - who are cleaning French homes these days? Let me guess: North Africans from Algeria and Morocco? How about German homes? Let me guess: Turkish "guest workers"?

The governmental corruption in those former colonies, legendary as it is, I suspect is very fair competition for the ills of colonialism.

Gosh - who were the real cruel despots in Uganda (British Protectorate 1893-1962): Idi Amin or Britain?

Here's some info on those rotten Brits and how they treated Uganda:

"The effects of Britain's postwar withdrawal from India, the march of nationalism in West Africa, and a more liberal philosophy in the Colonial Office geared toward future self-rule all began to be felt in Uganda. The embodiment of these issues arrived in 1952 in the person of a new and energetic reformist governor, Sir Andrew Cohen (formerly undersecretary for African affairs in the Colonial Office).

Cohen set about preparing Uganda for independence. On the economic side, he removed obstacles to African cotton ginning, rescinded price discrimination against African-grown coffee, encouraged cooperatives, and established the Uganda Development Corporation to promote and finance new projects. On the political side, he reorganized the Legislative Council, which had consisted of an unrepresentative selection of interest groups heavily favouring the European community, to include African representatives elected from districts throughout Uganda. This system became a prototype for the future parliament."

Yes, let's reduce everything British, from Ethelred the Unready through the Wars of the Roses, the Magna Carta, the Civil War, tall the art, all the literature, all the things England gave to the world, to 200 years of colonialism.

Finally the English will be free to be themselves! rid of those pesky Celts who somehow greedily attached themselves to her like barnacles in the remote past while England was just trying to her own business.

[quote]The governmental corruption in those former colonies, legendary as it is, I suspect is very fair competition for the ills of colonialism.

No, it is not. France under Nazi occupation was better off.

r146 Britain's colonial endeavors are only a tiny blip in their long history. And frankly the Muslim conquerors were far worse than the British ever were.

[quote]Say - who are cleaning French homes these days? Let me guess: North Africans from Algeria and Morocco? How about German homes? Let me guess: Turkish "guest workers"?

France and Germany aren't leaving the EU, toots. Look for Britain to follow their lead.

White Marika and Ivan from Poland won't be available anymore, so look forward to an even less white society in the future with numerous cases of paranoia induced hospitalization as frightened Brits hear even more foreign languages spoken in the streets the NHS turns to the Commonwealth as Habiba from Bangaldesh, Chaya from India, Noor from Malaysia and Kairaluchukwu from Nigeria administer their anti-psychotic drugs and place them in straightjackets.

r150

Britain invented the concentration camp to genocide the Dutch in South Africa.

[quote]More than half of England has migrated to other countries throughout the centuries - the Americas, Australia,

We didn't exactly MIGRATE

[quote]Whilst England might just look around and, finally, at last unburdened of trying to be all things to all people, find itself free to be . . . English.

Well said, r140

[quote]Britain's colonial endeavors are only a tiny blip in their long history.

You're stupid into the bargain. Britain's colonization and pillaging of the resources and labor of other lands funded the Industrial revolution and which led to everything it has today.

[quote]We can, but don't really need, to go back as far as Spenser, Newton, Shakespeare, painters like Hogarth (all right, I'll mention Turner, Bacon, Freud, Hunt, Rossetti, Millais, and Constable) and Darwin, Halley, Tesla, or Austen, Dickens, Orwell, Wilde, Woolf, Eliot, Chaucer, the Brontes, Blake, Swift, Waugh, HG Wells, DH Lawrence, Maugham . . . did I forget the legendary children's authors? Nesbit, Stevenson, Burnett, MacDonald, Carroll, Kipling . . .

The fuck has this got to do with Brexit? And Tesla was a Serb.

R151 - And those guest worker Turks don't come from inside the EU, either, toots.

Right on Tesla. Tell you what, for Tesla I'll substitute Stephen Hawking and Michael Faraday.

As for what it has to do with BREXIT - ask the people who hijacked the thread about the UK breaking apart and who keep insisting that the only thing relevant about England is the Raj.

Nope, r155. Not everything Britain has today is from that.

[quote]As for what it has to do with BREXIT - ask the people who hijacked the thread about the UK breaking apart and who keep insisting that the only thing relevant about England is the Raj.

Stephen Hawking and Michael Faraday have nothing to do with Brexit

[quote]And those guest worker Turks don't come from inside the EU, either, toots.

You missed the point, diddums, but that's nothing new.

Post-Brexit Britain won't be able to rely on garlic-scented, white Europeans to work at low-paying jobs as they have in the past. They will have to go brown, as Germany and France have done. For Britain this means Commonwealth countries. Look forward to witnessing many different paranoia-feeding accents from an even larger variety of much, much darker faces!

R161 - I didn't miss your point. You asked who would clean Britons' houses without EU migrants. I pointed out that they would either clean them themselves as they had for centuries before the EU arrived, or get them from the same places France and Germany were getting them.

It's you who missed my point: no fear, Britons' homes will get cleaned by somebody.

Since when do Britons have clean houses?

R161 - Oh, by the way? The automatic entry for Commonwealth country residents ended in the 1960s. They still have to get visas.

Britain actually gets the lion's share of its non-EU immigrants from Pakistan and India.

[quote]I pointed out that they would either clean them themselves as they had for centuries

LOL!

Yeah, no. You still don’t get it, Tory. Centuries ago - even a century ago - Britain did not have the same population and had women doing unpaid labor for massive families.

Of course, there may well be non-British nurses and child care workers and cleaners and cooks - they just won’t be white or European.

This is all part of Putin’s plan.

And idiot conservatives in Britain and the U.S. are gladly going along with it.

Do you people actually think anyone non-British is suddenly going to be deported in the event of Brexit? That's not going to happen.

R166 Do fuck off.

[quote]Britain actually gets the lion's share of its non-EU immigrants from Pakistan and India.

Which are Commonwealth countries, actually, Tory.

[quote] Oh, by the way? The automatic entry for Commonwealth country residents ended in the 1960s. They still have to get visas.

Oh, and by the way? They still get 3 months free and clear at the border.

Ignorant right wingers destroy everything that is good and turn it into bad.

2018: 670,000 migrants came to the UK; 370,000 left. The UK is home to the largest Pakistani community in Europe, with the population of British Pakistanis exceeding 1.17 million based on the 2011 census. British Pakistanis are the second-largest ethnic minority population in the United Kingdom and also make up the second-largest sub-group of British Asians.

The Mayor of London is the son of a Pakistani immigrant bus driver. I really don't think the British are going to be worried about who is cleaning their homes because as it happens, whilst the wealthy in Hampstead and Mayfair have their homes cleaned for them, most of the rest of the population of British don't.

The women are still cleaning their own homes.

And by the way, Pakistan left the Commonwealth and then later rejoined.

The fact remains that automatic UK citizenship and the right to stay indefinitely were suspended in the 1960s. The UK still gets the largest numbers of immigrants from the Third World. Southwark has a huge Somali population.

But outside of the largest cities, the population is still overwhelmingly white British. They are, one supposes living in homes they clean themselves or get other working class white British to clean, in Devon, East Anglia, Cornwall, the Lake District, Herefordshire, Bath, etc.

BREXIT was an outcome of circumstances that beygan buildingj 40 years ago, long before Putin and social medic came on the scene. Britian has also always been a regionally divided nation, with the north of England a stepchild economically and socially for lo those many decades. So Britain was never as unified as all that to start with, although it was certainly more culturally unified 50 years ago than it is today. But as that is happening across the West. As far as my friends in New York City are concerned, Kentucky might as well be Jupiter, and Alabama, Pluto.

Cameron was stupid enough to give them a chance at last to stick two fingers up to the government they felt had betrayed them on many levels. Blaming BREXIT per se is cheap and spurious and evades the government's responsibility for hubris, imperial disregard for the concerns of communities, and ongoing inequality going back half a century.

Mostly agreed, r171.

But the fact is that Brexit will not do a single thing to remedy any of the issues you point out. In fact, it will only amplify them, and creates a plethora if new problems besides.

Brexit is at once a manifestation and a driver of the breakdown of British polity. No matter what happens next, the UK is fucked for years to come.

R172 - I'll agree with that take on it: that BREXIT is symptom of something that it will inevitably become a driver of. Nicely put.

R171

To the New Yorker saying it's 'normal' to have multiple foreign languages spoken in public - this is what you are use to (your normal), and for the rest of the Anglosphere, until recent decades, this is not normal.

Why should it be the case that people who should be speaking English in public, aren't? Is it defiance? To isolate the locals? For most people, it's viewed simply as rude.

R172

[quote]But the fact is that Brexit will not do a single thing to remedy any of the issues you point out. In fact, it will only amplify them, and creates a plethora if new problems besides.

You’re talking logic and common sense to someone who have revealed himself on this board to be conservative. They deal with emotion, not in real solutions.

Oh, the DRAMA of it all, OP!

R175 - You are a first-class bigot.

Even some barely civilized places speak English, in addition to their native gibberish.

Like the US, r178.

Are Britons at this point pissed at the years of stalemates and little focus on other issues?

Don't worry. I'll save the UK.