Describe a 9/11 Conspiracy Theory You Believe...

WTC7 did not fall on it's own; if they lied about "pulling" WTC7, can you believe anything else they say?

WTC7 did not fall on it's own; if they lied about "pulling" WTC7, can you believe anything else they say?

Mossad and the CIA planned the whole thing.

Dick Cheney did it.

On Monday, September 10th, I was told to buy, buy, buy and sell, sell sell, & I retired the next day.

[quote]In less than a week came another find, two blocks away from the twin towers, in the shape of Atta's passport. We had all seen the blizzard of paper rain down from the towers, but the idea that Atta's passport had escaped from that inferno unsinged would have tested the credulity of the staunchest supporter of the FBI's crackdown on terrorism.

Sure Jan.

Rumsfeld’s sept 10th press conference where he disclosed that $3 Trillion (yes trillion) was missing and unaccounted for. Timing for something that huge too odd.

Maybe they allowed it to happen. Remember the whole spin around Saddam Hoessein’s involvement and how the PTB were positive he possessed weapons of mass-destruction?

I used to think it was just ineptness. I do not put anything past them now.

If you want to fall down a 9/11 rabbit hole, Google "Project for the New American Century"; Rummy, Cheney, Wolfowitz and company publicly called for a "New Pearl Harbor" as a means to launch war in the Middle East. They got exactly what they wished for.

Philip D. Zelikow is Satan

I read an article in June or July of 2001 that said that the FBI was getting a lot of chatter from the middle east about a big terrorist attack that the Taliban or another group was planning. The FBI reported that they thought it would happen in Japan. I distinctly remember it because on 9/11 my first thought was "so not Japan" I think they knew it was coming but didn't know where it was going to happen.

Embedded mini/micro nukes ultimately brought down the towers; the astounding rate of all types of cancers supports this theory.

I was pretty suspicious when I saw all the mini explosions while the towers collapsed straight down to earth. Like it was controlled demolition. I'm not saying it was a government conspiracy but it was odd. I would have that they would have fallen down in a less efficient way.

I don't believe that the web of international financiers and very, very rich people planned 9/11 but I am still confused about how some people were shepherded out of the US in the days following. I believe that international money saw an immediate opening for untold riches to be made by exploiting the option for a never-ending war. The hundreds of thousands of lives destroyed or upended were worth it to the many people who have gotten obscenely rich from the chaos brought forth by 9/11.

Here is an article debunking all the conspiracies.

R14

No one who has studied engineering AT ALL believes all three of these towers collapsed perfectly into their own footprints.

Never happened before, or since, to any building anywhere on earth.

That the Todd Beamer "let's roll" story may have had a grain of truth, but it's mostly propaganda.

For some strange reason Lisa Beamer seems to have vanished.

For years she was EVERYWHERE -- writing a book, appearing on TV, pumping her foundation with Todd's "best friend." Then the foundation vanished and so did she.

I really think she's changed her appearance and is living under another name.

R17. Let’s have a list of all the buildings where commercial aircraft hit them with a full load of fuel at full speed?

Physics would be your friend here.

Flight 93 was shot down by the military. Jets were seen in the area where the plane crashed

The federal government deliberately covered up their own incompetence and ineptitude in the attack and the response.

[quote] Rumsfeld’s sept 10th press conference where he disclosed that $3 Trillion (yes trillion) was missing and unaccounted for. Timing for something that huge too odd.

Link please.

[quote] Flight 93 was shot down by the military. Jets were seen in the area where the plane crashed

Yes. That's widely acknowledged. They were scrambled to intercept the plane and ram the fighter jets into Flight 93 if necessary.

Trump never went down to ground zero right after the towers fell and he never sent 100 of "his own people" to help in the clean up.

There was advance warning. I have a few circumstantial reasons to believe this.

It’s actually over $8 trillion

No real plane crash debris in PA. Dubious entry and crash scattering at the Pentagon.

The pulling down of WTC 7. The explosive chemicals (not jet fuel) found in the debris.

The payout of hundreds of thousands - up to millions - to WTC victims families. No one has ever received this payout from a disaster before - but they had to sign not to sue anyone, not just the airlines, but anyone. Bullshit.

r22 Just for you, hon, CBS News video:

The Jews were tipped off, as very few Jewish people died during the attacks, which is amazing given the large Jewish population in NYC.

R29 speaking of, weren’t the real high up CEOs etc missing that day too, like only middle management and below died.

The only one that explains every anomaly, from WTC-7 to the incompetence of NORAD to lies about recovered passports and in-flight cellphone calls to explosions allegedly heard to the too-narrow slice into the Pentagon to the total absence of videos beyond the second WTC airplane (e.g., none at the major airports) to the pilot training in Florida (Gov. Jeb) to numerous others:

MIHOP.

Yes, treason. Like we're strangers to this possibility?

the 9/11 porn-grief provided the fake-news, fake evidence excuse for WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION, which was a blatant lie!

R29 - bullshit - a lot of Jews died that day as well. That's not actual conspiracy facts - that's just anti-semitic bullshit.

Scroll down to January 2001 on this timeline. There were multiple hijacking warnings in the months leading to 9-11. Why the FAA didn’t order that cockpit doors be locked during flights is mystifying.

Bush/Cheney / Haliburton DID IT.

Bush new and he had plenty of warnings. Read new book The Eleventh Day.

R25, R36, Also believe Bush knew and ignored specific warning from those with relevant info.

Upon hearing about the 1st plane hitting the tower, why was Bush's immediate reaction to check his watch for the exact time? Then he continued to read the storybook. If he truly had no clue wouldn't he have concluded that the entire US was under attack and he needed to be quickly rushed to safety by the Secret Service?

R37 We thought it was an accident until the 2nd plane hit.

For 5 years, I lived a block and a half from Ground Zero following 9/11.

My boyfriend and I would frequent a local pub around the corner from the first responders' station.

Shortly before leaving Manhattan, we all enjoyed quite a bit of alcohol (boyfriend and coming-off-duty -fireman) one night where stories were told.

Apparently colleagues who were on the scene of Sept. 11th, rushing in on the ground floors heard "basement explosions" after the "planes" hit. Tongues wagged and although things are still a bit fuzzy from all the alcohol flowing...as even the bartender joined....here was my takeaway:

1) 9/11 was a preplanned hit.

2) U.S. Government knew. Degree of involvement was debated that night. Although money - and heaps of it - was transferred VERY quickly amongst U.S. and international individuals.

3) There was something shady about the Twin Towers in the days and months leading up to the attack: some policies of insurance/ownership were transferred and the buildings were closed off at night for some weird "retro-fitting" of some sort. Some of the firemen knew NYPD who were on "lookout" for the "retrofitters"; whatever that means.

4) Building 7 was not involved in the fires surrounding the Twin Towers. Why it was "pulled" remains "suspicious".

5) Firemen were required to sign NDAs. The 9/11 investigation was a sham....at best.

6) The guys kept mentioning "Operation Northwoods", which became a bit of a joke as the night wore on. I knew nothing of this, and they did not elaborate. So when I looked it up later following my Manhattan move, it was creepy.

7) I am embarrassed to say that I initially bought the conventional 9/11 story....even while living in DT NYC. These guys were acquaintance drinking buddies, and this last "hurrah" was my going-away pub celebration. If I could return, I'd have many questions for the firemen. I suppose I am now a 9/11 "conspiracy theorist". Not so hard to fathom after all that has come forward in the years since though.. ....

It was an excuse to get more oil.

R39 interesting

Folks who fled WTC, with backgrounds involving bomb detonation, stated: "There were bombs going off."

The Official Story beggars belief. There are many books explaining why, in great detail. The French were the first to refute the OS.

Too many fictions. Too many "Who are you going to believe---Rummy and Cheney, or your lying mathematics and physics?"

I believe ROSIE! I weep for these days.

Pentagon - big plane, little hole.

Do you people ever challenge your beliefs with evidence? For example, do you, r45, know the official story why the "little hole?

I haven't looked into this in a long time, but I think it was something to do with the plane's wings falling inwards, or something? They didn't break off, to be found on the lawn later, unless the authorities scooped them up incredibly quickly before anyone at all could notice? The Pentagon brings up another issue that experienced P pilots have said that the official flight trajectory would have been impossible for them to have pulled off, let alone a bunch of completely jet-inexperienced idiots.

R47: I’m trying not to give my thought on the conspiracy theories, but I’ve wondered about inexperienced pilot as well on low flying into the Pentagon

The Pentagon is an enormous target and the pilot still missed it, slamming into the ground first.

If anyone could plan a conspiracy of this scale, how ridiculous it would be that they would make so many silly mistakes with so many leaks and security failures.

While I don't believe we have all the facts and full story of what happened, I do not believe for one moment that ANY of the popular conspiracy theories, inconsistencies, or "proof" provide any insight to the what those facts or that story are.

What's more, all of the existing conspiracy theories tend to support the broader phenomenon of rising popular belief in conspiracy theories reflecting rising uncertainty in a troubled and seemingly dangerous world as religion and faith in a higher being, meaning of life, and purpose decline. People who've studied conspiracy theorism have drawn many parallels between it and religion - the cult of conspiracies. Where the church and god once provided meaning and purpose, now conspiracy theories provide answers and spreading the gospel of conspiracies (waking the sheeple up), a purpose.

R39, why the hell would a first responder have any more knowledge than anyone else about how the attack was planned and by whom?

OK R50, but if there was no effort that would qualify as any sort of inside job, this would have to have been an absolute, total Perfect Storm of an operation by those clowns.

R50 - there are conspiracy theories about certain things - e.g. secret societies that control economies and the world - and there are conspiracy theories based on things we witnessed with our own eyes.

It's not a conspiracy theory to question buildings in freefall, buildings that were 'pulled', no debris field in PA or Pentagon. Things just don't incinerate - there are always wing portions and other items afterwards.

JFK's shooting is a another one - the 'magic bullet' theory is total bullshit. And then Oswald just happens to be shot to death the next day? I don't believe for a second that Oswald acted alone. I also don't believe Sirhan Sirhan alone killed RFK.

Don't confuse questioning the government's version of events with all conspiracy theories - it's not the same thing.

[quote][R39], why the hell would a first responder have any more knowledge than anyone else about how the attack was planned and by whom?

Why not R51? They (although not the ones I spoke with) were directly involved and experienced things that were fishy: basement detonations?, Twin Tower "retrofitting", "sham investigation and reparations", unusually and non-fire damaged cars, buildings, etc.

Hello?!

If they were involved and felt it didn't pass the smell test, that's saying something.

Sure, r54, they may have seen some fishy things that didn't make sense to them at the site, but that doesn't mean they'd know that the explanation was

[quote] 1) 9/11 was a preplanned hit.

[quote] 2) U.S. Government knew. Degree of involvement was debated that night. Although money - and heaps of it - was transferred VERY quickly amongst U.S. and international individuals.

It's not as though those involved in the alleged conspiracy would be eager to inform firefighters that the attacks that killed hundreds of their fellow firemen were a preplanned hit that the government could have prevented if it wanted to.

Never underestimate servicemen (and women) who feel that their chains have been yanked.

Many spent a great deal of time with lawyers and investigators after seeing all the shifty damage and their colleagues lost in the event....

The World Trade Center is NOT an insatiable bottom.

R50 nobody said it was a smart conspiracy. We're dealing with republicans here.

Not a conspiracy theory per se but I truly believe DJT was a brave first responder.

[quote] buildings that were 'pulled',

I don't know know why conspiracists cling to this one. The term "pull" is not used to refer to demolition of buildings. The guy clearly used it to refer to pulling the men out of the building because it was unstable.

You can still believe the building was intentionally destroyed without inventing this new meaning for the word "pull."

r50, Conspirators depend on people such as yourself, who lack imagination and sufficient grasp of the venality of others.

FGS, have you slept through this entire "Russia/Putin/Semion Mogilevich/Kislyak/Trump/cyber-attacks/Kushner/Flynn/Papadopoulous/Stone/Page/Deutschebank/Alpha Bank/Barr Sr./Epstein/Barr Jr./MBS/Khashoggi/McConnell/Graham/emoluments/Mueller/dead Russians/dementia/etc/" TREASONOUS Era??!

People can keep their mouths shut about crimes, EVEN GIGANTIC ONES, when they are involved, simpatico, sworn to, fearful, threatened, bribed, misguidedly loyal, only partially aware,----or all the preceding.

r60, "The term "pull" is not used to refer to demolition of buildings. The guy clearly used it to refer to pulling the men out of the building because it was unstable."

Bwahahahaha! Sure, Jan!

United 93 was shot down

Yes, r61, I'm a dupe. I'm just one of the sheeple.

I know removing your tinhat for one minute leaves you vulnerable to the mind control waves, but try it and re-read what I wrote.

You're so unhinged by your crazy ideas, or the tinhat is much too tight and squeezing off circulation to your brain, that you are simply reading what you think I've written, rather than what I actually wrote.

As for people keeping their mouths shut, you do realize that in order to keep something a fake moon landing secret, literally something like 10,000 people would have to have been involved, sworn to secrecy, and have kept the secret.

I'm very well aware of large conspiracies that have been carried out through the years, many by the US government itself, such as:

MK-Ultra, the Tuskegee syphilis study, CIA paying respected journalists for biased coverage during Vietnam, Nixon actually taking action against John Lennon and putting him under surveillance, CIA overthrow of multiple governments, the DoD plan to use false flag actions to gain sympathy to invade Cuba, government poisoning alcohol during prohibition, radiation tests on the public without their knowledge to determine how fallout from a bomb might occur, government stealing bodies to do tests, the Dalai Lama a paid CIA asset, faked Gulf of Tonkin attack to escalate Vietnam conflict.

And of course, my favorite: Canada tried to create an actual gaydar to detect homosexuals.

Frankly, I'm glad that you and I are not of a like mind.

r64, how interesting that you mention large conspiracies like MK-Ultra, Tuskegee, etc. but then conveniently forget that the Manhattan Project was a top-secret operation involving tens of thousands of people working in various locations throughout the country. Cherry-pick much?

Cheney & W did it.

Bigot, moron at R29. I'm Jewish and I know plenty of other Jews. No one told us. Were we not Jewish enough???

R67. Please fan yourself and sit a spell.

If they lied about WTC7 and the hijacker's passports (the most obvious lies), how can you believe anything else they say?

Slamming airplanes filled with passengers into buildings filled with civilians is a conspiracy, but their version of this incident? No.

The sky was not blue that morning.

We're told that no black boxes from the planes were recovered at the WTC. I'm dubious.

Tiny bone fragments were found and the clean up crew was meticulous.

Good lord. The effect at WTC and the Pentagon is the same as a thermobaric weapon. It disappoints me how many of you failed science.

Please remember that aircraft must be parked at the gate, empty and not inside of buildings at speed intended to detonate the fuel and air.

The WTC towers were designed specifically to collapse into the middle. There are several stories that explain how they were designed and how the heat caused them to collapse from the inside out. The terrorist knew this. This was their plan and reasoning for flying fully fueled jets into the building’s.

Oh dear.

The leading news story was there is an explosion at the etc not 'four planes are hijacked and flying at low altitude to NYC, think about it.

How can anyone who applies critical thought and reasoning believe the "official narrative"? The term "conspiracy theorist" was created and weaponized by the CIA in the 60's to silence anyone questioning the Kennedy assassination. Sheeple, wake the fuck up and take 5 minutes to watch this 9/11 video. A ten year old could connect these dots.

They were waiting for an excuse to invade Iraq.

[quote][R64], how interesting that you mention large conspiracies like MK-Ultra, Tuskegee, etc. but then conveniently forget that the Manhattan Project was a top-secret operation involving tens of thousands of people working in various locations throughout the country. Cherry-pick much?

r65 - you are truly insane, aren't you? What convenience purpose would it serve?

Setting aside the fact that there is an enormous difference between a top secret government project and a conspiracy, my list was merely a handful of large conspiracies off the top of my head to illustrate that I am well-aware of the fact that conspiracies, many of them rather large, in fact existed.

Such awareness further demonstrates that I am not wholly disbelieving that additional conspiracies are likely to exist.

However, I am far from being a conspiracy theorist, just like not everyone who is on a diet is an anorexic.

Ry4, You do realize that the US Govt let 1500 men die from shark attacks to keep the secret of the atomic bomb?

That would be to r64.

I find it rather tin-hattish to believe that a handful of Saudis hijacked 4 US passenger planes and flew two perfectly into the Twin Towers, one into a portion of the Pentagon, and one into a field.

Particularly when there is no known, or none shown, video of any of the accused in any of the main departure airports; when the "box-cutters" "evidence" is from an impossible phone call from Mrs. Ted Olson on the Pentagon plane; when from the infernos a hijacker's passport was allegedly found on a NYC street; when "Let's roll!" was heard not by Mrs. Beamer but allegedly by a dispatcher who for some reason didn't put Todd through to his wife; when, in short, there is no evidence whatsoever that the men blamed were the men guilty.

I’m not sure that I believe the official story of how and why WTC 7 collapsed. All the other damaged surrounding buildings looked like they had been hit at an angle, but WTC 7 collapsed into its own footprint.

[quote] this would have to have been an absolute, total Perfect Storm of an operation by those clowns.

If it had been perfectly executed then Flight 93 would have hit some target and the other flight would have hit the Pentagon directly. That Popular Mechanics article debunks many of the conspiracy theories mentioned in this thread.

I also agree that we don't know the full story, but nothing in the "rabbit hole" is persuasive. It's very much like Pearl Harbor -- for decades people believed there was a conspiracy, but historians now know there was not-- just human error and poor policymaking.

No, it doesn't. The Popular Mechanics article is full of full-on lies. And FYI Pearl Harbor was definitely a conspiracy. You don't leave half the ocean unobserved when you know war is imminent.

What’s the point of even speculating? Either there’s no conspiracy or our society is so corrupt and evil, we’re hopelessly doomed.

[quote] The Popular Mechanics article is full of full-on lies.

Oh, well, you've convinced me.

"......or our society is so corrupt and evil, we’re hopelessly doomed."

You're catching on, r87.

[QUOTE] United 93 was shot down

A cockpit recording of its final minutes exists. In it, the hijackers talk about 'finishing it' and flying the plane into the ground. Eye witnesses saw it flying low and intact with no fighter jets close by, before it hit the ground.

Recordings of Flight 93's last seconds. Doesn't sound like they were shot down to me, although I know F6s were scrambled with that intention.

Voice in English: I’m injured.

Voice in Arabic: O Allah. O Allah. O Gracious.

Voice in English: In the cockpit. If we don’t, we’ll die

Voice in Arabic: Up, down. Up, down, in the cockpit. Up, down. Saeed, up, down.

Voice in English: Roll it.

Voice in Arabic: Allah is the greatest. Allah is the greatest.

Voice in Arabic: Is that it? I mean, shall we pull it down?

Voice in Arabic: Yes, put it in it, and pull it down.

Voice in Arabic: Cut off the oxygen. Cut off the oxygen. Cut off the oxygen. Cut off the oxygen.

Voice in Arabic: Up, down. Up, down.

Voice in Arabic: What?

Voice in Arabic: Up, down.

Voice in English: Shut them off. Shut them off.

Voice in English: Go, go, move, move.

Voice in English: Turn it up.

Voice in Arabic: Down, down.

Voice in Arabic: Pull it down. Pull it down.

[QUOTE] Why should we believe a bunch of Saudis hijacked planes? There is nothing to link these men to the event.

Such poor knowledge of 9/11! Mohammed Atta, the lead hijacker, was Egyptian, not Saudi Arabian, and we know plenty about him for ten years prior to 9/11.

'Atta was born in 1968 in a small town in Egypt's Nile Delta. He was 10 years old when he moved with his family to the Abdeen section of Cairo. Atta studied architecture at Cairo University, graduating in 1990, and continued his studies in Germany at the Hamburg University of Technology. In Hamburg, Atta became involved with the al-Quds Mosque, where he met Marwan al-Shehhi, Ramzi bin al-Shibh, and Ziad Jarrah, together forming the Hamburg cell.

Atta disappeared from Germany for periods of time, spending some time in Afghanistan, including several months in late 1999 and early 2000 when he met Osama bin Laden and other top al-Qaeda leaders.

Atta and the other Hamburg cell members were recruited by bin Laden and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed for the "planes operation" in the United States. Atta returned to Hamburg in February 2000, and began inquiring about flight training in the United States.

Atta and Marwan al-Shehhi arrived in the United States in June, 2000. Both ended up in Venice, Florida, at Huffman Aviation, where they entered the Accelerated Pilot Program. Atta and Shehhi obtained instrument ratings in November 2000, and continued training on simulators and flight training.

Beginning in May 2001, Atta assisted with the arrival of the muscle hijackers. In July 2001, Atta traveled to Spain where he met with bin al-Shibh to exchange information and finalize the plot. In August 2001, Atta traveled as a passenger on several "surveillance" flights, to establish in detail how the attacks could be carried out.

In early September 2001, Atta traveled to Prince George's County, Maryland, where fellow hijacker Hani Hanjour was at the time. Atta then traveled to Boston. On September 10 (the day before the attacks), he traveled with Abdulaziz al-Omari to Portland, Maine. They spent the night at the Comfort Inn in South Portland.

On the morning of September 11, Atta and Omari flew on Colgan Air back to Boston, where they boarded American Airlines Flight 11.

Fifteen minutes into the flight, the team of hijackers stormed the cockpit and Atta took over control of the aircraft. At 8:46 a.m, Atta crashed the Boeing 767 into the North Tower of the World Trade Center.[6] The crash led to the collapse of the tower 102 minutes later at 10:28 a.m., ultimately causing the deaths of over 1,600 civilians and first responders.'

I believe the GOP knew the basics and "stood down" because they wanted to use the event to begin their endless wars.

I believe that if Gore had taken office as he should have (given that he won and the election was stolen from him), that 9/11 never would have happened.

[QUOTE] How can anyone who applies critical thought and reasoning believe the "official narrative"? The term "conspiracy theorist" was created and weaponized by the CIA in the 60's to silence anyone questioning the Kennedy assassination. Sheeple, wake the fuck up and take 5 minutes to watch this 9/11 video. A ten year old could connect these dots.

This is the Welp Troll. F and F, and block.

[QUOTE] Embedded mini/micro nukes ultimately brought down the towers; the astounding rate of all types of cancers supports this theory.

The majority of Manhattan would have died of radiation sickness in the first few weeks if this preposterous theory was true. The fish life in the Atlantic would also have been affected by radiation and would have been dangerous to eat.

Ordinary large bombs would sound a lot more credible.

[QUOTE] I believe the GOP knew the basics and "stood down" because they wanted to use the event to begin their endless wars.

Begin? They needed no such grandiose excuse for Middle East wars in the 1990s. 200 people killed by a suicide bombers on a subway train would have been enough, or make up something about nukes, like Bush and Blair.

There are more facts than theories on this thread.

I don’t get it why they have to ‘intentionally’ bring down WTC 7 too.

R98, there were 7 buildings close to each other in the World Trade complex. All were damaged when Tower 1 and 2 fell down. Tower 7 was a controlled demolition as it was beyond repair.

Controlled Demolition takes weeks to plan.

R100, no it doesn't. The area was already clear of civilians. It takes no more than a day to stock it with explosives.

A fire ball travelled down the escalator shaft and caused explosions in the lobby.

[quote]I don't get why they have to 'intentionally' bring down WTC 7 too.

WTC 7:

"According to a statement reported by the BBC, Loose Change film producer Dylan Avery thinks the destruction of the building was suspicious because it housed some unusual tenants, including a clandestine CIA office on the 25th floor, an outpost of the U.S. Secret Service, the Securities and Exchange Commission, and New York City's emergency command center."

[quote][R98], there were 7 buildings close to each other in the World Trade complex. All were damaged when Tower 1 and 2 fell down. Tower 7 was a controlled demolition as it was beyond repair.

No. WTC 7 was "not beyond repair" according to those present at the time. Hence, why bringing it down was controversial and the decision remains questioned.

[QUOTE] No. WTC 7 was "not beyond repair" according to those present at the time. Hence, why bringing it down was controversial and the decision remains questioned.

It was highly unstable. Were you on the scene? You know nothing, even thought Atta was Saudi.

[quote] It was highly unstable. Were you on the scene? You know nothing, even thought Atta was Saudi.

???????

I believe you are confused, R103. I have not posted anything on Atta or Saudis

And YES, I have spoken with firemen who had colleagues on the scene.

I believe that there had been chatter and there was a general warning that something big was going to happen. About two months prior, the company I worked for did a trial run at a remote disaster recovery location. Managers were trained at the backup site. Maybe all large corporations have these things in place all the time, but the concept was new to me. I’m not a high-ranking corporate executive of a major giant, so what do I know?

“On September 11, 2001, the structure was damaged by debris when the nearby North Tower of the World Trade Center collapsed. The debris also ignited fires, which continued to burn throughout the afternoon on lower floors of the building. The building's internal fire suppression system lacked water pressure to fight the fires, and the building collapsed completely at 5:21:10 pm, according to FEMA,[5] while the 2008 NIST study placed the final collapse time at 5:20:52 pm.[6]. The collapse began when a critical internal column buckled and triggered structural failure throughout, which was first visible from the exterior with the crumbling of a rooftop penthouse structure at 5:20:33 pm.

“The collapse made the old 7 World Trade Center the first tall building known to have collapsed primarily due to uncontrolled fires,[7] and at the time, the only steel skyscraper in the world to have collapsed due to fire.[8]”

Here is a clip of WTC 7 collapsing at 5:20pm on 9/11. Does that collapse look more like the result of a uncontrolled fire or does it look more like the result of a controlled demolition?

r80, you say large conspiracies and large govt projects are not alike. But actually they are more alike than they are different. The point is that they are both cloaked in secrecy, requiring the silence of thousands. That's the key.

You're totally correct R107 and it's a lot easier to keep thousands of people quiet than people think.

R74... Miss Thing casually tosses the word "thermobaric" around and scolds others with her disappointment. Please do it again. I bet it gets funnier each time you use it.

I believe that Sneha Anne Philip did not die on 9/11 - instead she used the chaos and paralysis that happened in the aftermath of the attacks as an opportunity to run away and start a new life. (The woman that Sneha was seen with on surveillance footage shopping with on 9/10 for lingerie and bedsheets has never come forward. I believe this is the person who helped her to disappear.)

"No. WTC 7 was "not beyond repair" according to those present at the time. Hence, why bringing it down was controversial and the decision remains questioned."

Um, it would have taken weeks or months to prewire the explosives. Nothing to see here folks, move along,

[quote] Does that collapse look more like the result of a uncontrolled fire or does it look more like the result of a controlled demolition?

Yeah, who are you going to believe? Your own uneducated-in-explosives eyes, or the testimony of actual experts who have nothing to gain?

The kidnapped the Arab "terrorists", ground-up their bodies and remote-controlled those planes into the buildings

The conclusion of actual experts:

“The principal conclusion of our study is that fire did not cause the collapse of WTC 7 on 9/11, contrary to the conclusions of NIST and private engineering firms that studied the collapse. The secondary conclusion of our study is that the collapse of WTC 7 was a global failure involving the near-simultaneous failure of every column in the building.”

- I don’t have any theories as to why this occurred, I just know that the official story isn’t true.

R114, that is a study done by THREE scientists, including a PhD student. It would be more accurate to say a "tiny group of scientists question..."

WTC 7 was the CIA Downtown offices (midtown is the HQ I. Pfizer building at Second and 40th). Also WTC 7 was the hq for the security company that did security on all of the buildings. It was also downtown command center for mayor’s office.

WTC-7's fall and "Weapons of Mass Destruction" should be simultaneously addressed all the time. Then questions about The Pentagon... Would love to hear someone try and explain all three in a row.

This lecture is an excellent dissection of evidence. Without the emotional manipulation.

9-11 was a financial heist.

Billionaires profited handsomely off of it.

R119 bingo

R119. What R120 said. You nailed it.

The program Air Crash Investigations covers the famous ones as well as the others. I just watched a repeat of the one about the crash into the Pentagon. They took us inside the building with the NTSB investigators and there were bits of plane all over the place. Also, there is half a ton of cellphone footage from bystanders of the plane hitting the Pentagon, along with evening news footage of interviews from them. The freeway was packed and the plane flew so low it knocked over a lightpole near cars. As for the inexperienced pilot, he had instruments. All he had to do was put the thing in focus and crash-land. The show commented drily that it's a lot easier to crash than to land safely. He did increase speed as much as he could on the approach.

The fortunate thing about that crash was that the plane happened to hit a part of the building where a whole section was undergoing renovation. There would have been a lot more people killed if not for that.

(Other famous crashes that show has dealt with include JFK Jr, Sully and MH370.)

Something that hasn't been raised here, and apologise that I don't remember it in detail, is that one of the reasons for the collapse of the Towers was that when they were being built the Mob had a stranglehold on either steel or concrete. The high expense of whichever it was caused changes to the design, which later coincidentally facilitated the collapse. That's not a conspiracy theory, it's a fact, just a poorly-remembered one. Does anyone else know about this in more detail?

Elvis had just left the building.

That flight that crashed in Queens shortly after flights resumed was also an act by jihadists. So was that other flight that crashed into the Atlantic.

It would kill air travel if revealed, so it will be kept secret.

[quote] R15: but I am still confused about how some people were shepherded out of the US in the days following.

Be confused no more. Members of the Saudi royal family were evacuated due to fears that they might be attacked as scapegoats, while they were actually uninvolved in the attack.

[quote] R17: No one who has studied engineering AT ALL believes all three of these towers collapsed perfectly into their own footprints...Never happened before, or since, to any building anywhere on earth.

I don’t know that they collapsed perfectly into their own footprints. I saw lots of debris all over the place, but besides, that, I saw nothing suggesting of another force on the towers, and I have degrees in three engineering disciplines.

[quote] Flight 93 was shot down by the military. Jets were seen in the area where the plane crashed

[quote] R23: Yes. That's widely acknowledged.

You’re writing out of your hat. It’s not widely acknowledged or even narrowly acknowledged, and there’s no evidence of this.

[quote] R83: Particularly when there is no known, or none shown, video of any of the accused in any of the main departure airports...

A couple hijackers were captured on video passing through the Portland, ME airport, on the way to the connecting flight in NY.

And cameras weren’t everywhere then, like they are today.

I saw the second plane hit the second tower. And I saw the first tower fall in real-time. None of that was faked.

R129 what are you talking about?

NO ONE has claimed that it was faked, just demolished.

[QUOTE] The leading news story was there is an explosion at the etc not 'four planes are hijacked and flying at low altitude to NYC, think about it.

Which paper were you reading, The Maldives Gazette? The leading story was one plane crashing into the WTC, then two, then hijack/terrorism, as the story evolved.

There was no mention of hijacked aircrafts on the network news until the second plane hit. We were told there is an explosion at the WTC , the source of the explosion was unnamed. But four planes had been jacked that day, were rerouted and flying at low altitudes to densely populated areas. In a typical newsday, four hijacked aircrafts would be the leading news story .

R75 media brainwashed idiot.

R132, how fucking dumb are you? They DIDN'T KNOW that there were four hijacked airplanes straight away. Look at the damn timeline.

If there were real terrorists, bombs would be going off constantly in places like stadiums, planes, subways, malls, skyscrapers, bridges.

R135, there are very effective counter terror measures in place. Hundreds every year are foiled in London alone. Shame your frontal cortex is a putrid mush of delusion.

[quote] R130: [R129] what are you talking about? ...NO ONE has claimed that it was faked, just demolished.

Sorry, there’s so much that is ridiculous about what is asserted that it’s hard to keep track. So, the planes hit the towers, [italic] and [/italic] the towers were demolished on purpose?

I don’t know how to comment on that. The whole premise is ridiculous.

[quote] R132: There was no mention of hijacked aircrafts on the network news until the second plane hit. We were told there is an explosion at the WTC , the source of the explosion was unnamed. ...

Meanwhile, up in Boston....

I was told that “an airplane hit the WTC”. Since Boston has a complex called the WTC about a half-mile from Logan Airport (which we could see), across the river, I first thought it was there. Then I saw the TV in the lounge and began watching. Then I watched the second plane hit its tower. That’s when they knew for sure it wasn’t an accident. They had been speculating beforehand, but didn’t want to get ahead of it. Then the first tower fell and I left work. I could see the commuter rail station traffic and there was already a light exodus beginning. After exiting the train, and passing a merchant on the way home with a visible TV, I saw the second tower fall.

The news people often know things but don’t report them because they can’t confirm it. Gossip, news with only one source, and salacious stories (like the Trump Dossier) might be known to everybody but not broadcast because it doesn’t meet network “standards”.

I can’t recall exactly when terrorists were mentioned, but I think it was before the second tower was hit, as speculation.

r90 and r91 are childish fiction.

r137, You've never heard of the concept of "making sure"?

R139. the transcripts from the cockpit exist because they accidentally communicated it all to air traffic control. Not fiction. Real people being murdered.

You are an INCEL for sure. An evil individual.

R135 Why? That assumes only one method of attack against hard or soft targets. Essentially, you're positing everything in terrorism works according to spy novels.

Would r141 care to provide evidence (of those transcripts he believes are real)? Considering he demands it of others.

Not r141, but...

And...

I'm not saying everyone should believe a conspiracy theory and shouldn't believe the official story but some of you seemed terrified to even think for a minute that just maybe this was and inside job to continue a war for oil and make more billions. People murder for money all the time and for that much money that many more lives would seem like stepping on bug to someone without a conscience and someone stupid enough to go along with him.

You're projecting, r146.

R119/R120/R121 A resounding YES. And I might add that Rabbi Dov Zakheim had a lot of 'splainin' to do. Before I'm accused of Anti-Semitism, I must add I'm a proud Jew, and that I've read extensively on his alleged involvement. He is uniquely placed in several positions of power, not only simultaneously, but has so many other links to almost all who had profitted from 9/11. A follow the money approach only begets more questions, however it does open one's eyes to several very real possibilities.

I agree with R124

R145, Do you believe Trump invited the Taliban to Camp David? MSNBC reported that as fact.

R128, You make my point, re: Portland......only.

Cameras in Portland but not Boston. Okay.

Why did Bush just....sit? One might think he somehow knew that the Eastern targets were the only ones, not the school he was visiting (an announced event), not Chicago, Los Angeles,....

NORAD followed the plane of golfer Payne Stewart, but couldn't get to the last 9/11 plane long after we knew hijacking was involved, let alone the others?

Ted Olson couldn't keep his story straight about the technology involved in his wife's alleged call from the "Pentagon plane."

Wing span measurements don't lie. People do.

No "bystanders" were shown near the Pentagon side that was attacked.

Fine. Believe all the anomalies, all the questions, are explained by "Saudi hijackers with box-cutters."

Oh, and then, after being quick to blame OBL, Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz attacked Iraq.

And now we might go to war to defend Saudi Arabia, after letting MBS get away with murder. MBS went to Jared, or rather, vice-versa.

Where were those alleged hijackers from, again?

Bush knew there would be an attack, he just didn't know when.

R134, dumb enough to remember switching back and forth between news stations and news radio to figure out what the fuck was going on. The leading news story was 'there is an explosion at the wtc', not four planes have been hijacked. This is post Lockerbie, and you think its plausible that four fucking planes are jacked without any fucking media alert. Whatever , biotch.

R152 Have you ever been to the Pentagon? You never see “bystanders”. There aren’t public areas on the western side. The metro station, which is where the visitors center is are both located on the southeast side.

I believe Mark Wahlberg had he been on AA Flight 11 as originally planned, would have taken down the terrorists.

Marky Mark don't play.

R125, Try again. It was members of Bin Laden's family who were allowed to fly home.

You know the Bin Ladens, don't you? Poppy Bush did.

R155, I refer you to r122, who claims that "bystanders" took "cellphone footage," not me, r152, who was expressing skepticism with the quotation marks.

R158 Ah, thank you.

I’ll say this about R122 bullshit to the whole section of the Pentagon being under renovation. That section had finished, people had moved back into their offices during the summer. September is an onerous time of year in DC. The week after Labor Day, Congress is back in session and its a full schedule everywhere for the end of the Government fiscal year. Thats the maximal week for getting acquisitions through approval at the Pentagon, so everyone was at work. They start early, too.

One of my neighbors worked in that section and was out at a meeting at another facility when it happened. Everyone he worked with was killed. There’s a lot of survivors guilt with those who survived, and none of them took money from the victims fund.

All I'm reporting is what the program said, R159. They did not say the whole section that was hit was under renovation, and of course they reported the deaths. They showed the specific section on a graphic that they said was empty because of renovations. Whether that was untrue, or whether there was another section renovated AFTER your neighbor's section, I have no idea.

People going on about "bystanders" are deliberately misreading me. The "bystanders" the program reported were "bysitters"- the freeway was at a standstill and they were all sitting in their cars watching it. I have friends who live on the flight path not far from the airport, and believe me, you'd notice if a plane unexpectedly flew over your head just before landing. The program appeared to show footage from handheld cameras: maybe it was faked or "reconstructed" and I missed that. Cellphones didn't record pictures then, but if anyone did have a camera with them, they'd certainly have used it.

[quote] [R145], Do you believe Trump invited the Taliban to Camp David? MSNBC reported that as fact.

This is how conspiracy theorists work. You asked for confirmation. You got two (of the many sources) given to you. Then you dismissed one source because of something entirely unrelated, completely ignoring the evidence provided, not even bothering to address it.

The CT-er is typically presenting the Gish Gallop argument ...lots of tiny irrelevant details which he then claims is 'overwhelming evidence' that Cheney or whoever was to blame.

They don't need to murder 3k civilians as an excuse to declare war on Afganhistan, an oil free zone. They made up fictional nukes to go after Sadamm.

[quote] They don't need to murder 3k civilians as an excuse to declare war on Afganhistan, an oil free zone. They made up fictional nukes to go after Sadamm.

Exactly. If Bush, Cheney, and co wanted war, they could and would have manufactured a much less dramatic and destructive reason to declare one.

That George W. was in cahoots with Bin Laden family, and knew beforehand. (After all, he did allow Bin Laden family members to fly out of the country.)

Imagine having a mind as suggestible to nonsense as R164. He thinks Bush was 'in cahoots' with Bin Laden to destroy the WTC. What species of rotten, porous frontal lobes does R164 possess?

He probably thinks Bin Laden is still alive, living in Cheney's guest house as they plot a strike on Disneyland.

Bush and the Neocons are so looney tunes that I could believe they saw the victims as some sort of "martyrs" (collateral damage within a higher good).

"Why did Bush just....sit?"

It was all pre-choreographed. He'd be sitting on camera doing something positive and constructive (reading to children). But his face tells volumes to me. He is the usual President personality type (narcissism, etc.). But I see a hint of shame and regret from a not very bright man: "Was this the right thing to do? They told me... "

Of course, Cheney was running the show in the bunker so he wasn't available.

ITA R167. Good post.

'It was all pre-choreographed.'

The international PR optics of 9/11 were horrendous. It cost the US billions financially and the dollar plummeted. Tourism fell to a record low as nobody wanted to visit a city that stank of the dead or risk having their plane hijacked. America stopped being seen as an impregnable, top of the tree world power, an eagle perched above all the others, and instead was seen as a wounded bird.

NO GOVERNMENT ON EARTH WOULD HAVE WANTED THIS OUTCOME, JUST SO THEY HAD AN EXCUSE TO DECLARE WAR ON AFGHANISTAN, WHICH HAS NO FUCKING OIL ANYWAY!

But of course the mentally ill false flagger on here won't be able to answer or even address this. He's so ignorant that he thinks all the hijackers were from Saudi Arabia. Bush Senior had no problem declaring war on Iraq in the 90s without faking the murder of 3k people and causing the destruction of billions of pounds worth of real estate. The Americans are famously hawkish and don't tend to protest about wars, unless they involve conscription from civilians, like Vietnam.

Tourism recovered within a year, with the site becoming a bit of a gawking pilgrimage destination in fact. The billions that were supposedly lost, went in others' pockets.

Government , no. Oligarchs stealing, yes.

They actually planned the whole thing out in PNAC - Project for the New American Century. They wanted an attack to justify military action in the Middle East, a "New Pearl Harbor" and they got it

Old man Bush used the invasion of the "peaceful people of Kuwait" to justify that pathetic war, they left Saddam in power for later wars.

[QUOTE] They wanted an attack to justify military action in the Middle East, a "New Pearl Harbor" and they got it.

As has already been explained to you, US citizens do not need the massacre of 3k people to be okay with a war in the ME. 300 would have done the trick. I guess your mental illness has led you to think Pearl Harbour and the Holocaust were also fake.

I believe Cheney did it, and W went along. No way was W the mastermind. He's not smart or brave enough and while evil enough, not so evil to think of it in the first place. ITA with the poster who sees guilt and fear on his face when he was told while reading to the kids. I'm sure W was bullied into going along with it. Not that W gets any sympathy from me.

He still tried to steal trillions from Social Security and brought this country to its financial knees. I think that was all him, W and his greed.

R173

A century later it was discovered that the battleship Maine in Cuba turned out to be a false flag pretext for the Spanish-American War. Since you have said that you are not American, I don't think that makes you an expert on what Americans would do.

My friend's father worked at the Pentagon and was offsite nearby in a meeting. They heard the sound of the plane from where they were and saw it with their own eyes.

He flipped out and literally left and ran to his house cowering in the basement for hours. Left his car etc.

[QUOTE] ITA with the poster who sees guilt and fear on his face when he was told while reading to the kids.

He kept a poker face with some concern, perhaps fear. All 100% natural in the circumstances. You seem very young and naive. Definitely an illiterate incel.

R165, You do know that it was IRAQ's declared war on? And that IRAQ has OIL?

Furthermore, do some more reading. Cheney fervently wanted a gas pipeline built through AFGHANISTAN. Moreover, AFGHANISTAN has a plethora of precious gems to be mined. But most significantly, the Taliban had worked to destroy the poppy fields.

As with the Golden Triangle of erstwhile Indochina, we couldn't allow the international trafficking of DRUGS to come to a screeching halt.

A cruise missile at 500 mph looks a lot like a plane

You're wrong about W. He is bold and cunning and has no concept of risk. He was behind the accounting shenanigans at Harkness Energy (and probably Enron too, since he was probably the inspiration for Ken Lay's "arrangements.").

[quote] A cruise missile at 500 mph looks a lot like a plane

Sure.

Just ignore all the plane debris. Or that cruise missiles don't have wings that can clip light posts. Because that would mess up your conspiracy theory.

R177, "He kept a poker face....."

And didn't excuse himself to go be, Oh, I don't know, COMMANDER-in-CHIEF after being told, "Sir, we are under attack."

"We are under attack." And the President of the United States literally didn't blink an eye. For seven minutes, until he was escorted out. Must not scare the kiddies, though, of course, Bush might have taken this opportunity to excuse himself because he had to go be President.

Bush, the "Coincidence Theory" goes, had no idea of the intent or number of planes on the "attack" that morning ("It was so blue"). He would have not known of the number or location of targets, which, this Theory would have it, might even included that very school (an announced visit)!

Did Bush know all? Maybe a limited amount. Did Cheney?

And about those NORAD drills ordered for the morning of September 11, 2001.....

What a coincidence! Just like there were London drills on 7/07/05!

Imagine having the kind of inferior brain that processes this as a cruise missile.

R179 LOL

No it doesn't. It's about 20 feet long. That's like guys on Grindr claiming their 3 inch dick is 9 inches.

The goals of 9/11 were not just entry into war. It Waze also expedited passage of a much-grossed up Patriot Act. Probably of equal and more lasting importance.

Not the Pentagon, r183, speaking of inferior brains.

Israel did 911 - All the Proof in the World

One in ten people killed on 9/11 were Jewish.

The USA PATRIOT Act (officially the Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act) was quickly developed as anti-terrorism legislation in response to the September 11, 2001 attacks.

Why didn't they just go for a tube bombing like the UK? 50 people killed, no real estate damaged, no stock market crash, no real impact on tourism as it didn't affect the infrastructure or aesthetics of the city.

I would hate to have frontal lobes so porous and putrid that they were suggestible to these kind of preposterous conspiracy theories. It's a mental illness based on a God complex - thinking your reasoning is always superior to everyone else's.

Excuse me . Aircrafts filled with passengers slamming into buildings filled with civilians ain't a conspiracy ?

Heal thyself, r189.

[quote]It's a mental illness based on a God complex - thinking your reasoning is always superior to everyone else's.

Yes. Conspiracy theorizing is a ploy by the impotent and powerless to feel that they're powerful because nobody can pull one over on them—they always know the "true story" that "gullible" folks are too blind to see.

Oh nonsense R192. The world works by conspiracies and only a gullible child wouldn't understand that. Mental illness is an ad hominem attack that refuses to deal in facts.

[quote] The world works by conspiracies and only a gullible child wouldn't understand that

Like I said ....

[quote] Excuse me . Aircrafts filled with passengers slamming into buildings filled with civilians ain't a conspiracy ?

Yes, obviously, it was a conspiracy, but not by US government officials.

Which one might believe if the military hadn't spent 70 years cloaked in a culture of extreme secrecy.

Most of the military budget is, and has been published on line through the Library of Congress for decades. You could order printed copies, if you wanted through the Green Book appropriation committee documents.

Claiming “extreme secrecy” when the Green Book has been available the entire time just demonstrates ignorance of process.

R192, the OP walked right into it!

[QUOTE] Only a gullible child wouldn't understand that.

R197 Are aware that $55 billion a year of federal spending is excluded from official government accounting?

That's the difference between what is documented by the US Treasury as the budget and the total appropriation by Congress. The money is used by the intelligence agencies and for covert military research.

The "official story" has more holes than a Swiss cheese factory!

Why yes, dear child. I’ve spent my entire adult life deep inside the must bowels of Washington, first in the military and ever since in contracting and projects.

What you’re whinging about is less than 2% of the budget.

Lets look at the federal governments IT budget. Thats over $110 Bn per year, and breaks out to $18 Bn for Cybersecurity and about $15 Bn for redevelopment of outdated systems to use government cloud.

The F-35 program is over $1 Trillion for its lifetime.

Yes, there are classified projects. These are national defense that we don’t need Russia, China or Iran seeing what we’re doing. Before you get all stupid: George Washington himself set up his own classified network, his Secret Six to ensure vital secrets stayed out of the hands of our enemies.

[quote] R164: That George W. was in cahoots with Bin Laden family, and knew beforehand. (After all, he did allow Bin Laden family members to fly out of the country.)

If he knew beforehand, he would have flown the bin Laden family out beforehand.

What was never reported was that a full El Al Flight Took Off on 9/11 From… JFK to Tel Aviv.

How the hell is that relevant, R203? Are you one of those cretins who thinks the Jews were warned, even though 1/10 people killed on 9/11 was Jewish?

r173, 241 American died in Lebanon in a bombing in 1983. That's not far off from 300. So why the fuck didn't Reagan start a war then?

I didn't read much of this thread because it's silly but to adress why the towers fell straight down, Charlie Rose had a panel of architects on his show just after 9/11 who talked about the shitty construction of the towers when they went up. The architect wanted show off his big dick and prove that a building could be constructed in really short period, and have it be cheap.

He's the reason. It was well established by the architectural community long before 9/11 that the world trade towers were shoddy and built like a house of cards.

Nope. It wasn't construction that was the problem with the WTC, it was the asbestos.

[QUOTE] 241 American died in Lebanon in a bombing in 1983. That's not far off from 300. So why the fuck didn't Reagan start a war then?

Too soon after Vietnam and the attack wasn't on home soil.

"The international PR optics of 9/11 were horrendous". The U.S. gots lots of love from the world... at first. Invading Iraq changed all that.

"It cost the US billions financially and the dollar plummeted". Corporations were able to create a 'false recession' and reduced their workforces, making one person do the work of three.

"Tourism fell to a record low as nobody wanted to visit a city that stank of the dead or risk having their plane hijacked". I went there and ate and stayed in a hotel.

"America stopped being seen as an impregnable, top of the tree world power, an eagle perched above all the others, and instead was seen as a wounded bird." MARY

"NO GOVERNMENT ON EARTH WOULD HAVE WANTED THIS OUTCOME, JUST SO THEY HAD AN EXCUSE TO DECLARE WAR ON AFGHANISTAN, WHICH HAS NO FUCKING OIL ANYWAY!" Do you mean Iraq?

"But of course the mentally ill false flagger on here won't be able to answer or even address this". The 1%-ers all continue to profit from the wars.

"... and causing the destruction of billions of pounds worth of real estate". I'm sure it was all insured.

r207, Asbestos I can tell, there was absolutely no financial rea$on why those towers were "pulled".

Leave the tragic incel alone to wank over his CTs. He is too tedious and unintelligent to play with.

It's exciting to believe in conspiracies, comforting even to an extent to believe that a covert group could pull of something like this. Better than believing the alternative that everyone is much less smarter and not as coordinated as a Hollywood movie would make them out to be.

I just don't think people are that smart to pull off a heist like that without someone blowing the whistle. It's like how the dumbest people think we didn't go to the moon, and the smartest real analysis, escape velocity calculating, differential equation loving people throw their hands in the air, absolutely insisting with a fury that we did. The ignorant hicks shake their head when they see a documentary on planetary science and say now how did they know that? They're making stuff up.

The Reagan thing, that was the Iran Contra Affair. They weren't scared of him. Iran made a deal with Reagan behind the scenes.

Occam's Razor suggests the likeliest explanation is an inside job.

Barb Olson is alive!

The phone calls didn't come from the planes.

Passengers disappeared.

Lucky Larry's "close ties" to Netanyahu:

"The two have been on friendly terms since Netanyahu's stint as Israel's ambassador to the United Nations. For years they kept in close touch. Every Sunday afternoon, New York time, Netanyahu would call Silverstein. It made no difference what the subject was or where Netanyahu was, he would always call, Silverstein told an Israeli acquaintance."

"Silverstein is connected to the Zionist elite in Israel in numerous ways, most notably via his close association and friendship with no less than three former Israeli prime ministers, namely Benjamin Netanyahu, Ariel Sharon and Ehud Barak. Silverstein is especially close to Benjamin Netanyahu, father of the "war on terror" doctrine. According to Haaretz.com, "Many Israeli politicians are acquainted in one degree or another with the 70-year-old Silverstein." It's via these channels that Silverstein was uniquely placed to assist Israeli intelligence and the Zionist mafia in Israel and America with carrying out the 9/11 attacks."

[quote] Occam's Razor suggests the likeliest explanation is an inside job.

No, it doesn't. Learn what that term actually means.

Cynthia McKinney speaks out

I hope the ugly OP is killed in a terrorist attack. Maybe he'll have both legs blasted off and then he'll bleed out in great agony. His fellow false flaggers will share his pictures and say he is a crisis actor.

'Occam's Razor suggests the likeliest explanation is an inside job.'

Nope. If you see two jet planes fly into a tower block, the most likely explanation it that it was a terrorist attack, not that the government of the country planned it. That would be like hearing hooves and expecting to see zebras, not horses.

Occam Razor - notice it's not Occam's Law. It's trotted out WAY more often than it should be, and particularly with CTs.

r220 She makes several good points. I'd vote for her over dirty-cop Kamala any day.

We're to believe that novice pilots (a few actually flunked out of flight school) were able to force their way into the cockpits, overpower the pilots, take over controls and steer planes into very small targets at incredible speed?

Here's a few more.

The official 2006 FBI report and the official Department of Defense document ("Pentagon 9/11") on Flight 77 both concur that Ted Olson's (several different televised versions of) claims to have received phone calls from his wife were false. 100% false.

American Airlines had no phones on their Boeing 757s in 2001, and not in 2006. But that became Olson's final version.

IOW, the DoJ's FBI rejected the story of the DoJ's former Solicitor General.

Moreover, cellphone use was impossible in 2001.

Barbara Olson's non-existent calls are the only "source" of a plane's being hijacked,* of the passengers' being "herded to the back of the plane," and of "box-cutters."

Think about that.

Now who here is going to call the FBI Report and the Defense Dept Report the work of "Incels" and "tin-hatters" and "people who believe they are superior"? Of "Conspiracy Theorists"?

*We assume the planes were hijacked because, of course, their targets and/or trajectories.

But the precision of the WTC planes, at least, could then as of now been attributed to remote control operations. There were no subsequent claims of "phone calls," perhaps because calls and "ear-witnesses" weren't yet determined to be "needed" for public consumption and convincing.

Flight 93 did not attack any target, and the alleged "Let's roll!" is a fable for the credulous. Moreover, its wide-spread debris field suggests a shoot-down/mid-air explosion rather than a simple cratering impact.

Finally, there are multiple problems (low-level trajectory vs physics; lack of debris field; impact size; literally incredible "eyewitnesses" vs their supposed vantage points; etc.) with the story of Flight 77, not the least of which is above-mentioned.

Cell phones and in-plane credit card phones played a major role during and after the attack, starting with hijacked passengers who called family or notified the authorities about what was happening. Passengers and crew who made calls include: Sandra Bradshaw, Todd Beamer, Tom Burnett, Mark Bingham, Peter Hanson, Jeremy Glick, Barbara K. Olson, Renee May, Madeline Amy Sweeney, Betty Ong, Robert Fangman, Brian David Sweeney, and Ed Felt. Innocent occupants aboard United Airlines Flight 93 were able to assess their situation based on these conversations and plan a revolt that resulted in the aircraft crashing. According to the commission staff: "Their actions saved the lives of countless others, and may have saved either the U.S. Capitol or the White House from destruction."[4]

According to the 9/11 Commission Report, 13 passengers from Flight 93 made a total of over 30 calls to both family and emergency personnel (twenty-two confirmed air phone calls, two confirmed cell phone and eight not specified in the report). Brenda Raney, Verizon Wireless spokesperson, said that Flight 93 was supported by several cell sites.[5] There were reportedly three phone calls from Flight 11, five from Flight 175, and three calls from Flight 77. Two calls from these flights were recorded, placed by flight attendants: Betty Ong on Flight 11 and CeeCee Lyles on Flight 93.[6]

Alexa Graf, an AT&T spokesperson, said it was almost a fluke that the calls reached their destinations.[5] Marvin Sirbu, professor of Engineering and Public Policy at Carnegie Mellon University said on September 14, 2001, that "The fact of the matter is that cell phones can work in almost all phases of a commercial flight."[7] Other industry experts said that it is possible to use cell phones with varying degrees of success during the ascent and descent of commercial airline flights.[7]

After each of the hijacked aircraft struck the World Trade Center, people inside the towers made calls to family and loved ones; for the victims, this was their last communication. Other callers directed their pleas for help to 9-1-1. Over nine hours of the 9-1-1 calls were eventually released after petitioning by The New York Times and families of the WTC victims. In 2001, U.S. cell phones did not yet have the photography capabilities that became widespread by the mid-2000s.

'Cell phone use in 2001 was impossible.'

'But the precision of the WTC planes, at least, could then as of now been attributed to remote control operations'

Do you realise how stupid and contradictory you sound? Huge Boeing jets could be flown remotely, yet cell phone use was impossible?

It was possible from the mid 90s onwards, and Flight 77 was equipped with phones passengers could use if they paid a fee via credit card.

You are typical of a flyover/no passport type. I remember using phones aboard planes in the mid 90s.

Where is the FBI report that says there was no phone call from Barbara? You haven't linked any of your sources.

"Two calls from these flights were recorded, placed by flight attendants: Betty Ong on Flight 11"

The transcript of Betty Ong's (great name) calls. Could have been easily faked. We'll never know.

R228, Problem: Ted Olson's final story insisted on cellphone usage, not an in-seat credit card, because he claimed his wife didn't have her purse.

Stay with the pertinent facts.

Lisa Beamer's story, or myth, is for puerile minds.

As for families hearing the tapes, sure, Jan. And sworn to secrecy as well.

Some of you have no concept of how threatening government forces can be. Or how mendacious

Ask the hundreds of eyewitnesses to the explosion of TWA 800, who were never interviewed. Or ask those who were, who found their reports ignored.

Ask, indeed, the NTSB, illegally shoved aside by the FBI.

[quote] Problem: Ted Olson's final story insisted on cellphone usage, not an in-seat credit card, because he claimed his wife didn't have her purse.

Not a problem: Marvin Sirbu, professor of Engineering and Public Policy at Carnegie Mellon University said on September 14, 2001, that "The fact of the matter is that cell phones can work in almost all phases of a commercial flight."

[QUOTE] Some of you have no concept of how threatening government forces can be. Or how mendacious.

You have the most dangerously suggestible mind. Imagine reading all this false flag BS and actually believing it. Dick Cheney was working in the Pentagon when the plane hit it, ffs.

These five men knew the EXACT nature of the attacks before they happened: the date, the time, and the exact location, to the point they were pointing their videocameras at the World Trade Center and reportedly had captured BOTH plane impacts on tape.

When arrested and searched by FBI agents shortly after the South Tower impact, the men were found to possess maps of Manhattan with the WTC ringed in Sharpie pen, $4300 in cash stuffed in a sock, forged passports, while explosives-sniffing dogs went "berserk". Once safely back in Israel, they admitted in an Israeli TV chat show that had been sent by their bosses to "document the event".

It was Netanyahu who said on 9/11: "this event is very good for Israel". Fox News initially reported this (Carl Cameron) in the days after the attacks.... then they were ordered by Bush Administration officials to "cease and desist" and all related material was wiped from Fox News' archives. A US government officials were reported to have said: "Evidence linking these Israelis to 9/11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It's classified information."

Imagine what the corporate media would have reported if it happened to have been 5 IRANIANS (for example) who were caught in the same circumstances?

Why do we protect Zionism to such an irrational extent? Emotional blackmail, re. the Holocaust - is also one of their major weapons - and they have America wrapped around their pinkies.

Part of me believes it was the government, so that the Bush administration would have a reason to go to war with the Middle East.

Part of me believes it was an insurance scheme on Silverstein’s part, but that for some reason he genuinely thought the buildings would be mostly empty that day.

The truthful part of me knows it was just terrorists and that you can’t waste your time trying to make madness into sense, but there’s still a little voice in the back of my head that tells me something doesn’t add up.

“The truthful part of me knows it was just terrorists and that you can’t waste your time trying to make madness into sense, but there’s still a little voice in the back of my head that tells me something doesn’t add up.”

Agreed. For me, that little voice in the back of my head whispers: “But what about WTC 7?”

OP, please explain why Dick Cheney was working inside the Pentagon when it was hit?

Extract from a novel about 9/11:

The rescue services never reached us. You never saw us on TV. Nobody took photos of us. All you know of us are disheveled figures scrambling down the walls, bodies hurled into the void, arms waving white tablecloths in the ether like scraps of cloud. The thunderous noise of the falls in the documentary by the Naudet brothers. The only film about the tragedy is the work of two Frenchmen.

But they didn’t show the falling limbs, the fountains of blood, the melded sections of steel, flesh, and plastic. You didn’t smell the burning electrical cables, the whiff of a short circuit amplified by 100,000 volts. You didn’t hear the animal cries, like pigs with their throats cut, like calves torn limb from limb; only these were not calves, but minds capable of pleading.

Love this thread!

Love this thread!

Do people want more extracts from Windows on the World by Frederic Can't Remember Surname? I can post a few of the gory bits from my KIndle.

R236 please show proof he was....

Some form of cold fusion turned the towers into dust...a new form of energy

Too strange for words.

I am praying for the false flag loon who is this thread's OP to be severely maimed by a suicide bomber. He'll be staggering around minus one leg and we'll be laughing.