Arriving in heaven...

You're ushered in by Anna Nicole Smith.

You don't have a New Testament?

I wanna meet Michael Jackson.

I imagine you get to walk past the formerly smug athiest as they wait for their elevator ride to the basement. Bye bitch!

Anna takes you to the Soup Nazi of Heaven, St Peter.

No soup for you, OP, two years!

You are not getting in, OP.

OP buys Precious Moments figurines.

Gays go to gay heaven, I presume.

And you think you get into heaven wearing body glitter, OP?? Well, you can't!!

There is no heaven and if there is, what are the specific requirements to get in? It’s never been laid out. Accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior? How do you do that? What about babies who don’t understand it? I guess they’re fine but what’s the age cutoff? Also- what about murderers on death row? They know when they are going to die, so they can repent before and they all get in. Doesn’t seem fair. What about a decent guy who has a bad day, curses out God, and gets hit by a car? He dies without having the chance to repent. Makes. No. Sense.

Not very heavenly for them if they have to mix with the riff-raff.

If there’s a heaven then that must mean there’s a hell, and if I believe in that then I’m well and truly cunted. I don’t fancy burning for eternity thanks. I’ve had thrush once, that was enough. x

see, that’s why I can’t believe in heaven. I don’t want to be in the eternal presence of a god who ignores human suffering. And I am sure there are souls in heaven I’d want to avoid.

After my father died, I dreamed that he called me on the phone. I asked him how he liked it where he was now. He liked it a lot. Maybe that was my brain’s way of comforting me. Thanks, brain.

The Bible states that only 144,000 faithful Christians are allowed into heaven.

Considering the number of devout people who've been on Earth already, and that the Bible says a number of pre-destined souls were earmarked by God in the beginning for entry , I'd say there's barely room left for any of us.

Revelation 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son

You'll have to ask Allah for permission to enter after St Peter checks you on his list at the gate. Anna Nicole Smith is one of the 72 virgins you'll meet inside.

you cant be serious......all there is is life on earth.................. which is mostly meaningless errands in the grand scheme of things with reruns of mary tyler moore thrown in as a bonus.

At death there is a black nothingness and you are no more. Deal with it.

R10, you will cover all of those things and have extended conversations about them during your freshman year.

Have fun!

If I have to see my father again, I ain't goin'!

R1 Better than Anna Deavere Smith, I suppose.

Well I had an aunt by marriage growing up who was a Jehovah's Witness and she preached that only 144,000 people are going to heaven and most of those slots are already filled. The rest of us will be resurrected here on earth.

She said this was "the truth".

I come from an immigrant Italian, Catholic family and this aunt created quite the scandal in the family and Italian community letting the JWs in the house and then converting. Her refusal to participate in Christmas activities especially the Christmas Eve Fish Fry (Feast of the Seven Fishes) was a major source of contention.

Jehovah's witnesses are idiots. Their beliefs are meaningless.

There will be a light reception in your honor. Marilyn will serve the hors d'oeuvres, Elvis will pour you drinks, Judy will sing by the piano, and James Dean will drive you to your lodge. Sounds like heaven, huh?

And you get to do crack with Whitney!

There is no tortuous hell based one of the book excluded from the bible. It chronicled of of the Saint journey into hell with Jesus right after Jesus died on the cross. The Saint asked who are these sleeping souls in hell. Jesus says they are the soul waiting to be taken to heaven. Until then, they sleep. Basically, we all are going to heaven. The good one get up there and chill first. The bad one sleeps in hell until they can get on the second "plane."

There is no tortuous hell based one of the book excluded from the bible. It chronicled of of the Saint journey into hell with Jesus right after Jesus died on the cross. The Saint asked who are these sleeping souls in hell. Jesus says they are the soul waiting to be taken to heaven. Until then, they sleep. Basically, we all are going to heaven. The good one get up there and chill first. The bad one sleeps in hell until they can get on the second "plane."

I can't wait for the cloud carpeting. So fluffy and feels great against the feet.

[quote]r27 I can't wait for the cloud carpeting. So fluffy and feels great against the feet.

And it replenishes itself! Or, someone else cleans it for you.

Here's my dilemma, I don't believe in Heaven or Hell but I might be wrong. If Hell is real then Trump and Manson and Nixon and Andrew Lloyd Webber will all be there, among other evil doers.

Worst Star Wars Bar scene ever. I just want to end up wherever they are not. I figure leaving everything to some starving orphans in the final reel ought to do the trick.

[quote]r13 I don’t want to be in the eternal presence of a god who ignores human suffering.

I'm with you.

The 1991 movie THE RAPTURE has a great final scene, where born-again-christian Mimi Rogers basically tells God to go fuck himself. She'll take purgatory for all eternity rather than say she loves him despite the way he screwed up her life (don't want to spoil the plot)

The drawback of this film is they don't have the budget to pull off the Final Days / Rapturing sequence, but otherwise it's very intelligent. And in the book "Alternate Oscars" the author Danny Peary says Rogers really deserved an Oscar nom.

I hope our beloved pets make to animal heaven. My cat in heaven would be soaking up the sun now.

Life on earth is just temporary, but life with the Lord is for eternity!

We are all connected. I believe (hope) to see my parents and other loved ones when I die. I didn't care about any celebrities when I was alive, and wouldn't after I die. The flaws that cause us to hurt ourselves and others will be healed, and we will forgive each other once we understand that. And once that happens, we merge into the other atoms in the universe, and disappear, since we are all made of the dust of stars.

^^ Will we feast on lollipops and rainbows?

If *we* show up, it’s automatically not somebody’s heaven - ya know? I guarantee you I’ve got a pissed off ex wife who is still angry at me almost 40 years later. She’d be happy to see me at the pearly gates only if she could push my ass off.

Puppies made of candy floss, Rose.

No cats, R32. Cats are not allowed. It would not be Heaven if it smelled like cat piss.

Dogs under 25 pounds are always welcome.

I have a hedgehog.

Is Mr. Nibbles allowed in?

Are the Pearly Gates closed on a holiday?

R14 That’s long been the JW’s contention. They used to come by my house, and I started asking what they were going to do since they had a million members.

They went away and their guy called me and said they’d determined that souls took up less space than they originally calculated so there was room for all of them. I asked “Like Stacker? (A disk compression tool for MS-DOS at the time)”

He never called again.

Never trust ANYONE who doesn't eat birthday cake R21

[quote]r41 their guy called me and said they’d determined that souls took up less space than they originally calculated so there was room for all of them.

It's alarming that there's such a housing shortage in heaven.

[italic]What have we been buying into all this time??

Souls don't take a lot of space, and heaven is infinite. There is no housing shortage. There will be room even for Chrissy Metz whenever she finally goes.

[quote] What have we been buying into all this time??

A good investment. You know that bubble is going to burst, it's just a matter of time.

On OP's iPod...

You get your own planet when you go to Mormon Heaven. That's dying large.

And is there a rope line to contain the crowds waiting to see Princess Di and JFK, et. al?

What if you wanted to be reunited with those you loved - but they didn't love you? Are there multiple copies of souls, so everyone gets what they want?

Because all those copies are going to take up more space, too.

Heaven isn't real. After you die, there's nothing.

OP what are you? 8 years old? If that's a serious question, you really need to grow up and come to terms with what death actually means.

I would like to talk our most loved First Lady, Jackie!

Death means some of us will go to hraven and others, like many here on DL will be spending eternity in hell.

My grandfather was in a semi coma for three days. Suddenly he said "it's ok Jimmy has come to meet me". Then he died. Jimmy was his favorite. Was he hallucinating? Who knows.

Nobody knows what happens, so why bother even speculating about it? We'll all find out soon enough.

R14 is right - no one talks about that though. It is stated in the Bible that only 144,000 will get into Heaven.

That's a hard disco to get into - I'm thinking of Peter and Paul with their clipboards and saying - sorry, you're not on the list. Over and over and over.

I'm on the list. Jesus sat on the end of my bed and told me so. Then he made me do unspeakable things. I was only young.

The entrance gate is staffed by former Studio 54 bouncers. They hand you a mirror and ask you: "Well, would YOU let yourself in??"

I don't believe in any of it, but growing up our priest taught us that all souls go to Heaven because all creatures great and small are made up of body, mind, and soul. Everyone's soul is good, but for some the mind is not and will take over the body against the wishes of the soul, and make a person do bad things. After death the mind and body are the only things that die. The soul then moves on to the next phase of being, Heaven.

Are there jobs in heaven? Who processes all of the entrance paperwork? I'm assuming that could be an interesting job. I bet the food left in the break room has no calories, and they get the "good bagels".

Religiously devout believe that everyone is beautiful in Heaven. There are no physical ailments. Those without limbs, or with mangled bodies in life are made whole. The mentally ill and criminally insane are normal. Charles Manson & Timothy McVeigh are friends with deceased religious leaders and cops . All our dead kitties and pups run free in fields of heather and are there to greet us when we die. Wild man eating beasts are kind and gentle.

That's why the religiously devout are insane.

The idea of 'meeting" implies that time would exist in heaven.

Why would it?

Do illegal immigrants go to heaven? A question for the "good christians"

r63, though it's a mortal sin, illegal aliens can redeem themselves if they repent and return home.

As homosexuals, we must remember that while it is not a sin to be gay, it is a grave sin to engage in homosexual acts. Therefore, if we aspire to enter the kingdom of heaven, we must live a life of celibacy here on earth.

I'll bet you know where every glory hole in town is R65.

Oh, Lindsey R65 You always bring your A-Game. Give me some love, you big old hobbit.

We all have our crosses to bear here on earth. For gays, one of them is that we must live a life of celibacy. Otherwise, we will not be allowed entrance into heaven.

R64, don’t forget, they have to pay a fine, too!

r18- I'm 45. Took me 44 years to get to this conclusion. No religion for me. No God. No Heaven. No Hell.

The trouble with heaven is . . . boring.

I don’t care about seeing friends or family, I just want to suck off a young Rock Hudson and have him drill my hole hard.

I'm going to go looking for Marilyn Monroe and give her a big hug.

Look at this way, there won't be any Trumps or McConnells there.

At least you won’t have to worry about ever seeing a Republican again once you get there.

I'm sorry guys, Cant be any help on this question. Neither can the hubby.

R75. You just have to go through all the toll booths owned and operated by the Republicans en route to heaven, though.

The thing about there really being a sky fairy/god as he's depicted in the Bible is the whole thing just doesn't make any ... sense.

You can watch this docu about arriving in heaven, OP.

Diana and JFK Jr. will be waiting for you in hell, according to South Park.

R14=Jehovah's witness.

Question for you r14, why are there more people partaking now then ever, when the number should be miniscule and diminishing at this point?

What if heaven is a state of mind attained by following the commandment "Love Thy Neighbour?"

One might either have to leave DL or waggishly post in every thread "I forgive you, for I love you all. It's beautiful here, such heavenly bodies!"

[quote]Marilyn will serve the hors d'oeuvres, Elvis will pour you drinks, Judy will sing by the piano, and James Dean will drive you to your lodge

But who gives me a welcome fuck?

👻There's only one way to find out . . . . . . . . .

There's a Stairway to Heaven, silly !

Yes there are cats and dogs in Heaven. You'll find them hanging out at the Rainbow Bridge.

God created these magnificent creatures, and they bring such Joy to our lives on Earth. Why would He not allow them in heaven?

This should explain everything, OP.

Worms eat your eyeballs. The end.

Christian Heaven is existing outside of time and uniting with god in praise. So fucking boring to worship god ALL the fucking time. No sex, no food, no darkness, only the light of god and the song of worship. If loved ones are there, you just join the chorus. BOOOW-RING. Hell is just a boring alternative to Heaven. BOOW-RING.

Honestly children, it's all a fairy tale.

We live, we die, and there isn't anything else.

Heaven is a way for powerful people to control using you while you are alive for a "reward" after you are dead.

Have you noticed that the people who want you to suffer in "this world" usually want your money too?

Christianity is a con game.

I always thought there'd be a Protestant heaven and a separate Catholic heaven.

[quote] r86 there are cats and dogs in Heaven...God created these magnificent creatures, and they bring such Joy to our lives on Earth. Why would He not allow them in heaven?

Because they do not live by the Ten Commandments, and they cannot accept your god's son, Jesus Christ, as their savior.

This keeps them from being Saved. And only the Saved are allowed into heaven.

They are creature without souls and only souls go to the Christian con-job known as heaven.

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

~Epicurus

R86 - I wish the Rainbow Bridge had visiting hours.

So many pissed-off atheists on this thread. So much hatred.

Pity.

How could heaven be anything but devastatingly boring?

The same old shit, repeated endlessly, forever. You would long for the days of your human earthly existence, when you had unpredictable ups and downs, and could feel a sense of accomplishment if you navigated them successfully.

Not long after he died, my dad appeared to my mom in a dream. She said he looked much more peaceful that when he was alive. She asked him what Heaven was like. He said, "Aww, they don't pay much attention to me there," which is what he would have wanted.

That said, my mom says she's not sure about the whole Heaven thing, but she's pretty certain that we don't get to see anyone we knew on Earth. I trust her intuition but like to believe we at least get our pets back.

[quote]...and James Dean will drive you to your lodge.

Considering what happened the LAST time James Dean drove, I’ll call a Uber instead, thank you.

Great thread.

I don't believe at all that 'Heaven' is a specific place you go and you see all the people you've loved and lost during your life, with physical bodies and walking around in some sort of paradise - it is a completely different dimension and form of consciousness that we as simple humans cannot even begin to comprehend. One might describe it as 'seeing' the people you've loved but I think it will be more accurate to say we are somehow reconnected with them.

When you non believers are burning in the fires of hell, you will wish you had believed, but it will be too late!

I’m looking forward to be welcomed by72 virgins.

[quote] R90: I always thought there'd be a Protestant heaven and a separate Catholic heaven.

An Episcopalian woman dies and goes to heaven. He is met by St. Peter. They walk down a long corridor, with many closed doors. They pass one room that is rocking. The woman asks about that, and St. Peter says, “oh, that’s the Black Baptist’s”. They continue and pass a room with chanting that smells of incense. The woman asks and St. Peter says, “that’s the Eastern Orthodox”. They come to a third room and St. Peter asks the women to tip-toe by the door and be very quiet. “Why?” She asks. St. Peter replies, “This is the Catholics, and they think they’re the only ones up here.”

My sister went to a psychic who said my Dad was connecting with his Grandpa, who died before he was born, 1906. I like to think that is true. Her daughter died at age ten, so she has some queer ideas about psychics.

How do you know that cats and dogs don't have souls ....... because some Catholic nun taught you this in grade school?

Cats and dogs are far kinder, more compassionate and caring than a lot of human beings.

😻 Don't worry r94 ........ When you finally arrive, you'll have 24 hour access forever !

R105, true, but stop feeding them and see what happens. Though, they’ve been bread to be loving.

I’m just saying.

I’m curious as well with purgatory. I believe it’s mainly a catholic thing and but is there equivalent in other religions- like Islam?

[quote]r95 So many pissed-off atheists on this thread. So much hatred.

Hatred? Atheists never organized a Spanish Inquisition, or Salem Witch Trial.

[quote]r105 Cats and dogs are far kinder, more compassionate and caring than a lot of human beings.

Well, so are ears of corn.

I fully intend to make a glamorous entrance into Heaven seated on a luggage cart like Dolores Gray in Sherry!

Is fucking allowed in Heaven? God invented it, btw.

R109, I don’t think the Salem witch trials were about religion. The first witch “trial”, of Giles Corey, was about confiscating his wealth.

Giles was a very old, 81, and a wealthy man. The mob put a board on him, on which they placed stones. Incrementally they placed more, heavier stones, demanding a plea. The law was such that either a not guilty or guilty plea would mean that the town could confiscate his wealth, when it was all over. So when they increased the weight and demanded a plea, he said “More weight!”.

And then he died.

But his family inherited.

Legend has it that Giles Corey haunts the cemetery in which he is buried and appears when the city of Salem is about to suffer a calamity. I have relatives buried in that cemetery and have done research there. I have personally seen ghosts there in the guise of hobos, usually perched up in a particular, old tree. They like pot and are chatty.

When planning any trip I have always found it best to ask someone who has already been there.

A philosophical friend once said that Heaven is your life all over again, but everything works out great and nothing goes wrong, you're always happy and content with no pain or suffering.

That's not philosophy, R116. It reads like a Hallmark card.

OP, are you back from lunch at Olive Garden yet? Any thoughts on some of these responses?

R116, but part of the joy of life is the struggle, is it not? We hate disappointments but they make um, appointments (?) all the sweeter!

I hope that after I die, my cat will be there with me. It can't be heaven without cats.

Cat haters should be directed to the down escalator to the lower level where let's just say....the A/C doesn't work very well.

I don't know what happens but I can tell you this. During the dying process many people say they have seen and or spoke to deceased loved ones, it is not uncommon. There is something that they know that the rest of us can't comprehend. It's actually comforting when you deeply think about it.

The God of the Bible is a total asshole. Who would want to spend eternity with him?

R122, they are there to help guide you. My Grammy didn’t recognize her guides, she said. I hope that was temporary.

R124 I'm sure they were friendly.

The "welcoming" process for most DLers is likely something like this:

As long as my complimentary vodka martini is chilled and waiting for me, I’m good.

It’s something like this, with better visual effects.

I thought a young Tony Goldwyn was handsome. I read that he stopped acting because he didn’t need the money. But then he resumed acting a few years ago, IIRC.

Another thing that happens during the dying process (not for all of course like anything) is that in the final days the dying person reverts to childhood. They may have no idea what time it is or what season it is or who is in the room but they can recall names of people from childhood and in moments of lucidity they will tell you stories from childhood. Many of hem start to reach up with one arm in the days and hours before death too. They don’t seem to be in any distress and they don’t seem to be aware they are doing it but they’ll have one arm extended toward the sky. And as others said many start to see visions of loved one ore deceased. Nobody seems to see anyone they hate though! Lol. People who die suddenly don’t obviously have this journey towards death.

I read a book years ago where doctors and scientists explained this dying process by explaining what’s happening in the brain. They said they were able to replicate some of the symptoms on NASS recruits using oxygen deprecation. At a certain level the recruits reported seeing white light and having visions.

Anyway it’s all interesting. Whether it can be explained away by science or there is a supernatural element I like to think it’s a small compensation for those who have to actively die over weeks/days. I cannot begin to imagine what it must be like though I’ve watched it now with 3 family members. There’s a lot to be said for a sudden death.

When my sister was visiting with my Grandmother, Gram asked my sister who the other people in the room were. My sister was alone. She clapped to shoo the others away. She was the last person to see my Grandmother alive.

My niece died a week after my father. We said she was waiting for a guide, my father, before she died.

My mom was very religious herself (dad and I not so much) - she went to mass 6 days a week! 8am mass M-F and Sunday mass, had considered being a nun at one point (they wanted a dowry and she was poor so that was that!), said a nightly rosary etc etc. It surprised me when she did not show any signs of seeing either God or dead relatives when she was dying. She had her arm reaching out toward the ceiling but she also had terminal agitation and would pull at blankets and try to get out of bed and pat the wall so the hospice nurse said it’s often seen as another symptom of agitation. I was with her when she took her last breath, just the two of us in the house, and she never gave any sign that she was seeing anything “special”. She was a quiet, private person in life and she died quietly and without fuss. I remember sitting in the room holding her hand right after she passed and I just couldn’t feel any connection to the next world or to those who had gone beforehand or to anything “divine”. My dad had passed 5 years before in the same house. She never really got over his death and I always though I’d feel ‘something’, some sign, some ‘anything’ but nope.

“More light!”

OP, you meet your parents who will tell you that they watched you masturbating.

There is no heaven. Life on earth is hell.

I will see my parents and they will finally see that everyone, including gays, go to Heaven. I will smile and say, ‘See I told you so.’

Henry David Thoreau’s last words were: "Moose, Indian”, to the delight of meese and Indians ever since.

Conductor Leonard Bernstein’s last words were: "What’s this?"

Novelist Victor Hugo’s last words were: "I see black light"? (That doesn’t sound so good.)

Your memories lose their coherence as your brain starts to die. You no longer have a filing system that works so it's like taking all your memories and throwing them up in the air like a deck of cards. Your strongest memories will be of the people you've loved over your lifetime and those will hold on longer and produce a stronger resonance in your now dying brain. That's why everyone sees loved ones and goes back to their earliest, most deeply ingrained memories from childhood.

The light is your brain's electrical system short-circuiting. The tunnel is the same tunnel seen on any regular day as people lose consciousness for whatever reason.

Doesn't it strike anyone as particularly convenient that heaven just happens to be exactly what a human would come up with if they were making up a happy story about an afterlife?

[quote] R137: Doesn't it strike anyone as particularly convenient that heaven just happens to be exactly what a human would come up with if they were making up a happy story about an afterlife?

I think the ancient Egyptians’ afterlife wasn't that great for the average person. Same for the Greeks and Romans.

I wonder if we will be able to talk to Abraham Lincoln and George Washington?

Here’s how it goes down if you are a JW

And if you are Mormon....

R139, that doesn’t sound like much of a heaven for either of them. So, no, I don’t think so.

I think we become so transformed that every other person is as interesting as any other. So, there’d be no reason to seek out famous people.

Ooh, and R142, I bet all food tastes like steak or donuts cuz MAGIC!!11!1!

Do some of you listen to yourselves?

[quote]r120 I hope that after I die, my cat will be there with me. It can't be heaven without cats.

Sorry. Your cat will be busy eating your dead face, here on Earth.

False, r138.

The pagan Greeks, Romans and Egyptians all believed in paradise in the afterlfe — similar to the Christian belief in heaven.

Greco-Romans believed all souls of the dead dwelt in the Underworld, where they were judged by King Minos, Rhadamanthys and Aeacus upon dying (rather than St. Peter).

The most righteous, good-doing people were sent to a section of the Underworld called the Elysian Fields, which was a pastoral paradise of bountiful grains, vegetation, warmth and houses where they could live with their loved ones happily ever after. The most heroic and righteous souls even got their own kingdoms in this paradise — as Perseus was said to have.

The morally mediocre and ordinary people were sent to a section of the Underworld called the Asphodel meadows, where their souls lost their identity and became zombie-like ghosts to live in total neutrality and mindlessness for eternity.

Then there was Hell — the Greeks and Romans believed in another realm of the Underworld called Tartarus, where wicked souls were punished and tortured for eternity. Gods and monsters who warred with Olympus were cast into the bottomless Pit of Tartarus, such as Zeus's father Kronos. And figures like Tantalus and Sissyphus are famous to us for their eternal tortures.

Finally, the Egyptian afterlife also had a paradise section that Egyptians could earn. Rather than St. Peter, Egyptians believed they had to face Osiris and his 42 judges. They took the soul's testimony, then weighed its heart against the feather of Maat upon a golden scale. If the souls' hearts failed to match the weight of the feather owing to good deeds, the soul would be fed to the crocodile goddess Ammit who would devour the soul and destroy it permanently. But if the soul's heart was virtuous and matched the feather's weight, the soul would be transported. Egyptians believed you could either be reincarnated for another chance at life or you could be sent to Sekhet-Aaru, the "Field of Reeds" and Egyptian paradise, where virtuous gods and mortal souls dwelt together on lush islands with plenty of fertile soil and vegetation forever.

So I don't know where r138 gets off making claims that pagan after lives "weren't that good for the average person."

It's as if people are just making this afterlife shit up!

I feel we're underselling the importance of Roger Moore, as revealed by r25 upthread.

This is how it REALLY goes down:

It's confusing. Devout and upright Muslims are supposed to meet 72 virgins when they arrive. What about the virgins? Have they earned their place in Heaven too? Is it supposed to be meeting with a devout, upright Muslim whom they share with 71 other virgins? Or are all the virgins in virgin Hell?

And what about the non-believer who arrives in Heaven due to a blameless life? He learns that he must spend eternity praising God.

And as to meeting one's ancestors - what if you had a terrible r'ship when they were alive? Are you doomed to spend eternity with them?

And what if you had more than one spouse? Would all the wives or husbands share you?

My only hope for the afterlife is to rejoin my beloved pets, and presumably neither they nor I would suffer the pains of illness, ageing or death.

R148 All good and fair questions! I remember trying to help my friend feel better recently when he let me know his father's girlfriend had suddenly died. It was quite a surprise, as she was only in her sixties, and he had died two months prior at eighty-seven years. I said, well, at least your father is with Devora now, and he screamed "what about my mother?" I said, "Oh my, I hadn't thought of that", and we had a good laugh. He's more of a closet agnostic, but clearly he had indeed thought of it, and it troubled him.

This shit is a big part of why I believe in reincarnation.

Any other Catholics remember limbo? And purgatory? I know many US Catholics I’ve met who went to public schools escaped a lot of the BS and absorbed more of the broader cultures beliefs but growing up in Ireland we were sort of terrorised by the idea of babies in limbo. Funny enough when abortion became a political issue foetuses were all going to be in heaven. It was all so ridiculous. People were also far more likely to report moving statues and bleeding statues and apparitions of Mary than anything like dying relatives seeing loved ones in their last moments. I’ve been struck by how common that is in the US. Just about everyone died at home when I was growing up but I never heard anything like that until I went to the US. We were also partial to praying TO dead relatives rather than for them. It certainly wasn’t taught by the church but for whatever reason the idea that your relative becomes god like with all his powers at death permeated the culture. People prayed to dead people to help them in exams, get them through surgery, heal them etc...Looking back it was strange. All the ‘Jesusing’ amongst devout Protestants is foreign to me because for us it was Mary, Saints, dead relatives then Jesus (usually called God/sacred heart or holy god)

Purgatory and limbo are more Catholic gymnastics for believers to swallow that tie up loose dogmatic ends.

Mumbo and Jumbo.

Nonsense.

OP, if you get raptured I don't want your stuff.

The rapture happened in 1250and people were happy for all the rags they found.

One thing I don't understand about Heaven is whether the dead can see what is going on down here on Earth, either in personal vision or via some form of television. So I don't get why evangelicals are all so obsessed with bringing on the rapture. If it doesn't happen for years after their death won't they be able to watch it anyway, from Heaven? Or is it fear of missing out on the thrill ride up into the sky while the sinners burn below. Anyhow on arrival I suspect the dance cover of Brian Adams' Heaven is playing, and there is cake and party balloons for the newly deceased.

People who believe in heaven alternate between saying the dead are watching us (that sounds horrible for the dead btw) and saying they are in a far better place resting in peace. Which is it? George Carlin has a great bit on that once. When do you get off watching duty? When your bloodline dies out, when your children die? When the last person you knew in life dies? It doesn’t make sense. And then do they just watch helplessly or can they intercede? Powers of intercession are godlike and couldn’t be given to mortals in death so that would be no. Again now horrible to die and have to helplessly gawk at your relatives. The more you think about it the more it all sounds completely nonsensical and something that could only come from the limited minds of us humans.

What if this IS heaven?

Only the Virgin Mary and the saints can intercede on our behalf with Jesus. We can pray to Saint John Paul as well.

[quote]r155 I suspect the dance cover of Brian Adams' Heaven is playing, and there is cake and party balloons for the newly deceased.

I hope there's ice cream, too ? ?

Heaven, is a place

Where nothing

Nothing ever happens

A man dies and gets a tour of Hell. He visits a banquet hall. The people at the banquet look miserable. Their plates are full of the greatest looking food, but they are equipped with 6 ft long utensils, and are incapable of using them to feed themselves.

He then gets a tour of heaven, and sees their banquet hall. He sees the exact same food and the same utensils, but the people seated there all look content and sated.

The visitor asks St. Peter what can explain all this. St. Peter replied that in Heaven, the diners use their utensils to feed each other, something that would never occur to those in Hell.

R156, R158: Only the Virgin Mary and the saints can intercede on our behalf with Jesus. We can pray to Saint John Paul as well.

This is not exactly accurate. Anyone who is in heaven is as sainted as anyone else, excepting the Holy Family, perhaps. But they can all appeal to God for you. The Church identifies certain people as Saints to indicate that they lived lives worth of emulation. If your old Uncle Joe developed a cult following, and that is actually what it is called, he might be designated a saint someday.

That story is stupid, R161. For self-interest alone, any selfish bastards in hell would definitely feed each other. It would, in fact, be the first thing to occur to anyone. Religious people are simpletons.

Saint John Paul?

Feh!

[quote] If there’s a heaven then that must mean there’s a hell,

How does that logic work?

I like a St. Paul sandwich!

You get greeted by Eve Plumb and get to ask her about the Brady Bunch for all of Eternity.

[quote]r161 If your old Uncle Joe developed a cult following, and that is actually what it is called, he might be designated a saint someday.

Don't saints have to perform miracles, or have verified visions/stigmata or something? Just having a cult following isn't enough.

Catholic crapola is dripping in this thread. Catholic dogma was concocted to provide explanation without giving common people the Bible to read in their own language. Pure nonsense.

R168, we’re conflating two ideas. The first are people who are declared saints by the church. They are a small subset of all the people of equal saintedness, but who have not developed the following pushing for sainthood. For example, I knew someone who died and who I have no doubt is a saint. But she doesn’t have a cult who is lobbying for her candidacy to be declared a saint. This doesn’t mean she isn’t a saint, only that the Church hasn’t recognized her as such.

R148 That's not how the Hadith read, although that is one of the more common and likely offensive recitations used by Christians against Muslims.

Let's give you a recitation of more correct versions.

Saint John Paul performed a couple of verified miracles. That is a requirement before being declared a saint.

Yes, there are cats in heaven. There is a reason Noah was instructed to bring pairs of animals on board the Ark.

The two men in either side of Yeshua crucified along side Him. The one mocks Yeshua, chiding Him that if He was the Messiah that He should save Himself. A crow plucks his eye out. The other shows a tiny bit of faith asking Yeshua to please ask God to make a place for him. Yeshua speaks to say "I tell you truly that this day you shall be with Me in paradise."

Maybe, perhaps it could be that what you believe at the hour of your passing is crucial, eh?

R173 Of course. This was during the month of Cheshvan, which has references to "Mabul" or flooding. It certainly fits your cats on the ark hypothesis as it roughly translates to "This is why we can't have nice things"

[quote] For example, I knew someone who died and who I have no doubt is a saint. But she doesn’t have a cult who is lobbying for her candidacy to be declared a saint. This doesn’t mean she isn’t a saint, only that the Church hasn’t recognized her as such.

Every Catholic family thinks their family member is a saint who just hasn’t been recognised yet. Those of us who grew up in Catholic, all caps, environments will remember that all women were declared saints at death because of the amount of bullshit they put up with in life - 12 kids, alcoholic husbands, poverty. Even sexist, chauvinist men conceded that women got directly to heaven because if they didn’t then god was an asshole. Anyway, yes we were raised with Catholic dogma meant to keep us in line but as an adult I haven’t read anything in the bible that sounds any more logical that what the Catholics made up. At least we were spared all the rapture nonsense.

To be canonised, there must be two verified miracles attributed to a potential saint, only after that person's death.

And they can change their minds and kick you out of the saint’s club too!

I wonder if I'll have data roaming coverage there?

R177, I believe they now accept one miracle as sufficient.

You’ll note that people have to be asking for help from the deceased who are not yet sainted, in order for their answered prayers to be used in the cause of the sainthood of said deceased.

Heaven is a place where they never run out of lasagna.

Has anyone ever had uncle Joe sainted though? I think ever getting Padre Pio sainted was a tough job.

Why would we meet celebrity figures in heaven like their being famous here means they'll be "special" there? What a ridiculous thing to write.

When Princess Diana was taken away from us, I knew there was no god.

I didn’t write it but it’s not ridiculous. The poster has heard numerous people say that I’m sure. I certainly have. People also say “until we meet again” about coworkers and bosses who they had very little direct contact with.

r181, there is no need for lasagna in heaven. Do you think that people take heavenly hits in Heaven?

Oh, and there is no sex in Heaven, because...why?

The only thing in Heaven is joining the Heavenly Borg in the singing of praises and worship of God.

God is a needy creature who created us to worship him.

Or we created him to give us purpose...

r186 ^^^ heavenly shits in Heaven.

R36, are you a straight male?

I love St. John Paul Mitchell's Hair Care Products. I pray to him everyday for perfect hair.

One thing that is very important to remember is that while it is not a sin to be gay. It is a mortal sin to engage in homosexual acts. When one is gay, one is called to life a life of celibacy. We will be richly rewarded in heaven for our sacrifice.

Richly rewarded? Not you, R190. God hates you deeply and personally. He has sold your soul to Satan. You no longer have a soul.

You are groveling through this life and there is no afterlife for you.

[quote]He has sold your soul to Satan

That's not the dark fate that it used to be. All the best and most entertaining people are in hell, so much so that property values have shot up sky high.

Considering all the billions who have died the possibility of seeing John Kennedy Jr, Princess Di, Elvis or even your relatives is 0 despite having all of eternity to find them. Billions more are to come and I doubt there is a computer program designed to locate where everyone is.

St. Peter has that info, r193. It's been computerized up there since medieval times down here. Just don't ask if He uses a Mac or a PC.

R193, with eternity at play, it is certain that you will meet everyone in heaven.

At some New Agey event I attended, I encountered a somewhat rotund woman of a certain age, who gave me a gleeful smile, and announced, “I’m going straight to heaven!”

So I responded, “Maybe. But you have to die first.”

She did not look pleased.

You do realize that JFK Jr’s hunky body won’t be there. Just his spirit. How interested are you in that

I don't know. But I sure as hell hope that I see my Mom, my Dad, as well as so many I've known in my life who are no longer here.

My Mom died close to three years ago, and I miss her terribly. You often read interviews with sportsmen or celebrities and they are asked to name three people with whom they would share a meal. My answer would be my parents and my grandmother. They weren't perfect, but I loved them. And they loved me. So, yeah, I just want to be with them again.

We created god to give man purpose. We created heaven to give god purpose.

I wonder what people do in heaven all day to pass the time?

They fuck, R200. How could it be heaven without a LOT of no-consequence fucking?

Fucking is for procreation,

There is no procreation in heaven (unless you are a Mormon Heavenly father).

There is no sex. Only the joyous praises sung by the saints in the worship of god, outside of time, through eternity.

That is Heaven, the endless worship of the united godhead.

BOOOOW-RING

I would rather cease to exist than be the eternal stooge of a needy god.

Let’s face it. Heaven is going to be boring. Even if it is not just gazing in ecstasy upon the magnificence of God, it lasts forever.

Boredom is the fly in the ointment of heaven.

^guess I should have read r202 before posting.

No DLer gets into heaven

Heaven will not be boring. If it’s real, I’m sure the Creator has solved the boredom problem.

I once read that angels have genitalia but don’t use them. Probably the same for souls of dead people.

I love movies that depict fallen angels as being jealous of monkey-people (all of us). It just strikes me as funny.

Why would angels have genitalia? Do they need to pee?

It's like going to a bathhouse. They give you a towel and a key to your locker.

R207, don’t ask me!

According to Milton's *Paradise Lost*, angels do indeed have sex, and awesome perfect sex, as a blushing archangel Raphael explains to Adam: "Whatever pure thou in the body enjoy'st ... we enjoy In eminence, and obstacle find none Of membrane, joint, or limb, exclusive bars. Easier than air with air, if Spirits embrace, Total they mix, union of pure with pure Desiring, nor restrained conveyance need As flesh to mix with flesh, or soul with soul."

How do you know heaven would be boring? By its very definition it won't be.

But if you hope you see the people you loved here on earth what age would they be? It makes absolutely no sense. They could be as they were when they died but who wants to see that? Or is it their spirit you meet? Who believes in spirits? You might as well believe in spooks.

I think we become so transformed somehow. It doesn’t make sense to carry your biases and such to heaven for an eternity..

Perhaps that’s the deal, Hell exists because you do carry your biases with you, for an eternity?

For you, OP.

FYI, this is the Number One Song in Heaven:

Consciousness is purely a function of physical brain activity. When the brain ceases activity consciousness ceases. If a person wants to call consciousness "a soul", that also ceases when brain activity ceases. There is no evidence whatsoever that consciousness continues into an "afterlife". There is no doubt that the unique vibration that is every human being (trillions of atoms vibrating in a unique way together make up a human being) does affect the vibrations of others*. I think even more than the memories we have of each other, the vibrations of our body affect and have been affected by each other - strongly or weakly. This is our "immortality".

*Organic matter that forms human beings generates a frequency that can be represented by sound at approximately 42 octaves above middle C (the note near the center of a piano keyboard) as reported by Warren Hamerman in the scientific journal 21st Century Science and Technology's March 1989 issue. The middle C frequency is approximately 262 Hz. Forty-two octaves higher has a sound frequency of 570 trillion Hz. Since Hz means vibrations per second, this means human beings vibrate 570 trillion times a second!

After death, lots of elements within us quickly disperse - many into the air. Others exist in solid form for a while until decomposition breaks down the chemical bonds and releases yet more and different molecules. Ultimately those will also break down into simple elements or as gases. So the atoms that make us up are eternal. Have they been affected by having resided within us? Hard to say.

The people I've known and loved who are no longer alive, still live within me. I hold strongly to their memories, and might dream about them or have internal conversations with them. When everyone who ever knew them in life is also dead, they will truly be dead forever, unless they created some bit of art or knowledge that survived them. The best way to honor the dead is not to dream of being reunited with them in an imaginary place, but to try to take the best of them and incorporate what you loved about them into changing yourself for the better. In turn the changes in your life might influence the people around you, like a ripple effect. A person can live on that way as well.