Halshton, darling.

Good for Liza!

That said- he was terrifically talented, and to most people an extreme version of kick down kiss up. Eventually due to his drug problem he kicked up as well. And he lost control of his business. I think he is a cautionary tale (of substance abuse).

Back in the mid 70s I used to drop by his Madison Ave atelier where the childhood friend of my best friend at the time ran his couture business. She handled the ladies and the celebrities. She was a class act. At a certain point she put in her contract that she would not have to speak with Halston he was so difficult and just mean. She was the reason many of his customers returned. Halston did not hang with the ladies, he hung with the celebrities- Liza etc. Eventually my friend left Haltson- she did not need to work anyway. She loved the customers but could not stand the boss. They loved her, but few loved him. I wish I could tell you her name, but obviously I cannot.

r1

It's ok. Age gets to everyone.

That was COLD r2! You knew he meant for PRIVACY!

I’m too lazy to read, what does she defend?

She looks pretty good. Any work is natural.

Will Anjelica be in this as well? She was a Halstonette.

Reading is FUNdamental, r4.

[Quote] I’m too lazy to read, what does she defend?

You don't have to read. There's a short clip at the link.

She defends Trumps remarks about Israel.

Nobody was close to Halston at the end.

He had driven everybody away and even if they tried to see him he refused.

Halston died miserable and alone.

Why? What was his problem anyway?

[quote]R5 Will Anjelica be in this as well? She was a Halstonette.

Yes, she was one of his favorite models. (Note Shelley Hack behind her...)

Anjelica Huston wore Halston to the Oscars, early on.

One of Halston’s house models was Karen Bjornson ... who also walked in his famous “Battle of Versailles Fashion Show” in 1973 (which has a documentary of its own.)

This is an interesting interview with her, where she describes working with him.

Who Karen Bjornson was:

Do I spy Shelley Hack?

Liza looks pretty good. I like that she recognized that short hair was for her.

And I think jolie laide Anjelica was a terrific model.

[Quote] I like that she recognized that short hair was for her.

Are you posting from some time in the mid 1960s?

Saw the documentary, and what a sad decline he had. To be fair, it wasn't entirely his fault. The whole fashion industry seemed to turn against him when he did the JCPenney deal. Funny, because later on lots of designers struck deals like that and it didn't hurt their couture business.

Halston was pretty much through when he signed with JC Penny, and he had long burned all bridges.

[quote] Do I spy Shelley Hack?

Yes. See R11 which reads “Note Shelley Hack behind her”.

[quote] I wish I could tell you her name, but obviously I cannot.

What stopping you from name dropping? I haven’t seen you ever not name drop.

[quote]r11 Do I spy Shelley Hack?

Yes. Hack was in a series of ads and layouts for Halston.

Like Cheryl Tiegs, Hack was everywhere in the 60s and 70s.

Hack on left, with green glasses:

Shelly should get more attention. They should track her down and do a q and a.

Hack on left, Shelley on right.

BTS.

Well this thread took a giant shit.

Thatsh not shitsh, itsh clay!

Pat Cleveland stealing the limelight in the middle! ^

Mmmmmm ... I was going to point out how black models brought a lot of new posing DRAMA into the mainstream game once they began being hired more frequently in the 70s.

Lisa Minelli looks like shit. So many drugs that crowd did and she doesn't want to talk about it? She's a twitching disaster. What else is she there for? I am not from that time but I don't understand her rumored talent at all. Terrible blaring singing with a worse vibrato than her mothers. Lisa defends all the worst people, not unlike that charlie dude. Halston was a terrible man, that much I know.

[Quote] Terrible blaring singing with a worse vibrato than her mothers.

Let me guess: You love Whitney.

Mama always said I was the talented one.

[quote]R27 Well this thread took a giant shit.

[italic]No one puts Shelley in the corner!

[quote] Back in the mid 70s I used to drop by his Madison Ave atelier where the childhood friend of my best friend at the time ran his couture business.

Jesus Christ . . .

[quote] Halston was pretty much through when he signed with JC Penny, and he had long burned all bridges.

“Through” yet he was able to sign a billion dollar deal with JC Penny’s. “Through” but still flourishing in the high end dept stores that dropped him after the deal. Sounds like a tremendous feat for someone who had “burned all bridges.” Even after the JC Penny debacle, his career continued on.

[quote] In 1983, Halston signed a six-year licensing deal worth a reported $1 billion with retail chain J. C. Penney.

How nice to see that Charlie is still full of shit.

Liza looks sensational

Shenshashional!

Please, please, please let there be a recreation of that evening in July 1979 when Halston tried to calm a freaked out Liza, who feared they’d be killed by Skylab as it plunged back to earth.

It’s JizzLiza!

Why are most 'out' homosexuals on drugs?

[quote]Liza rebuffed the questioner, saying, "It's very hard to do an interview about your best friend. [bold]Especially if what's popular in that day and age time is digging a little. [/bold]I don't like it. I hated it when they did it to my mother or my father or myself. And I won't do it to Halston, I just won't."

Is it me, or is she incoherent?

(And where’s that photo of her crawling across Halston’s floor in a drink and drug-fueled blackout, again?)

R24=Shelley Hack

We have heard that Liza is a Lesbyterian.

"I am not from that time"

Nor from this planet, apparently.

Hissh clothessh dancsshed with you

[quote] Is it me, or is she incoherent? (And where’s that photo of her crawling across Halston’s floor in a drink and drug-fueled blackout, again?)

It’s you. She looks great and she sounds like she’s doing quite well.

She looks great for a 90 year old stroke victim. Liza is brain damaged from all the pills and liquor and everything is TERRIFIC. We had such FUN. Her terrible line readings - with the strange emphasis and vocal drop offs from film and her "singing" are the same ones she uses in her sad REAL life. And then she laughs like the two thousand year old debauched piece of human scaffolding that she is.

[quote]r40 And where’s that photo of her crawling across Halston’s floor in a drink and drug-fueled blackout, again?

OMG ... here it is.

[italic]Stay classy, drunkie!

You clearly didn't click on the link. She sounds perfectly lucid.

She dropped a contact.

Liza’s primary motto in life is to speak no harm. She has been consistent in that - which as she says stems from all the gossip about her mother. Makes her a less than interesting - and insightful - interviewee. But I respect that as credo to live by. Like her mother, she seemed to be one of the less evil people in the entertainment industry - which is primarily evil, stab-you-in-the-back types. Good for her.

[quote] Like her mother, she seemed to be one of the less evil people in the entertainment industry - which is primarily evil, stab-you-in-the-back types

Judy was one of the most talented singers ever. She also had a lot of pain and struggle throughout her life. Despite that, she had a good heart, which is hard to encounter in Hollywood. At a time when gay people were oppressed beyond belief, they identified with her struggles and she theirs.

"Judy Pills" will live forever at DL thanks to that quote.

Unlike Barbra and Bette, Liza has never been a colossal bitch. She's always had a very good reputation as a pleasant person to be around.

R35, the 1983 deal might of been worth a billion if successful; it was not and thus no billion dollars accrued (to him). Wikipeda should elaborate. It all fell apart. I do not think Halston was destitute when he died, but he was far from fabulously wealthy as were Cardin, Armani, Klein, Lauren, others and even screwed up (but brilliant) Saint Laurent. And yes, he was through creatively and went down the tubes pretty fast. It was HIV that got him but he was seriously addicted to coke from the late 70s on. His problems creatively and in business were all due to his coke habit and nasty personality- I don't really know what came first.

You know R35, I am not bullshitting- perhaps simplifying a bit. My Mom bought his clothes (couture) and went to that Madison Ave shop. She had no idea at the time that I went there too with by old friend visiting .... I was not in the habit of telling my parents everything I got exposed to in those crazy times (mid and late 70s). My boss starting in 1978 was good friends with H, as good a friend as was possible (most of H's friends were driven away)- he had a coke problem too. I could go on but I won't because you'll tell me it's bullshit so why bother.

I should say as the list of designer followed by "were" (very wealthy)-

Liza never talks smack about celebrity friends.

Liza loves hash.

Lizscha lovesh schlinging hash!

[quote]r54 Unlike Barbra and Bette, Liza has never been a colossal bitch. She's always had a very good reputation as a pleasant person to be around.

She fuckedd over Ruby Wax when she was a no show for a televised interview. She and the whole crew had flown over from England for the BBC.

Let's not pretend alcoholics and addicts are easy little innocents.

She hardly fucked Ruby over if Wax was able to make it part of the show. Liza was on Ruby's show twice, the second time with David Gest. Ruby and the Beeb got their money's worth.

Liza may have been unreliable for booking but still, she never seemed at all a bitch and as I said, i have never heard her say anything nasty about show biz people or her friends.

R55 Charlie come back. Ignore the assholes. Your posts are always interesting and appreciated.

I’m a fellow New Yorker of your generation and can tell from some of the smaller, less noticed details in your posts that you are for real and not a bullshitter.

I find Charlie a bit much. He's frequently withholding.

[quote]r62 I i have never heard Liza say anything nasty about show biz people or her friend.

Honor among theives - -

R65 yes it's more or less that. Liza has lived in a show biz bubble from birth. She is 100% show biz. Canned upbeat pizazz is 100% natural to her. It could also be her nature and character.

Charlie may be telling the truth, but he wasn't visiting an "atelier" on Madison Ave. It was a boutique. An atelier is a workshop, not a showroom. And there's really no "couture"(i.e., completely hand-made garments) in American fashion. Halston, like other great American designers, made ready-to-wear clothes for athletic, busy women who didn't need fancy evening gowns.

The thing with Charlie is that none of his personal info about his mother buying couture or a friend of a friend was at the same atelier as Halston were necessary. Because all he really had to say is that Halston did a lot of coke and wasn't a nice guy to anyone but celebrities. That's not news or inside info. There is no insight, nothing special in his details that any casual reader of life doesn't know from Google. But of course - he indicates there's more he cannot share. Doesn't bother me, he's a drone and a schoolmarm at the best of times.

It's Charlie who MUST place himself c l o s e r to the center of events and famous people than necessary. He does it constantly yet he really doesn't KNOW any of them. Just people connected to them. He's like that Dominick Dunne character. You can take out every other word he writes and end up in the same place. Lots of attractive and unattractive men with money hung out and around in the 1970s NYC. I read about it in Interview and Vanity Fair and the Warhol diaries. And nowhere else. Because it's nothing. Halston was something. But not for long. Charlie has yet to relay or impart any insightful information. All his posts indicated his superior breeding and survival skills in the world of debauched luminaries. His blindness and bad taste in adoration of Jackie Kennedy and Barbra Streisand prove him to be a rotted old fruit. He wears a speedo at 75. Someone left his cake out in the rain.

There are far more wealthy, educated and celebrated posters on Datalounge. Why don't we hear about them? Because they aren't always dropping their colostomy bag and frivolous names.

Wrong R67... in the early to mid 1970s Halston had a private atelier in a townhouse off Madison.... not the Paul Rudolph one he lived in, but the floor of another one. It had a private sales area in front and women sewing in back.

The space was used for private clients like Babe Paley who purchased made to measure “couture” clothes. It was a whole other business and clientele from the garden variety rich women who bought the ready to wear collection at Bergdorf.

Is Charlie American? He wrote "shop" rather than "store."

Is Charlie American? He wrote "shop" rather than "store."

I am not double posting. Fucking DL.

Haute couture refers to handmade clothes made by members of a syndicate in Paris, it is an appellation juridiquement protégée since 1945, and there are so many rules. So like champagne, a lovely made to measure dress created in NY or London is not haute couture, just as a delicious méthode champenoise from California or Italy is not champagne. And there are only 8 Ivy League Schools.

I’m American and sometimes say “shop” if referring to a boutique or very small store. But would always say “store” if talking about Bloomingdales or another large department store.

When Zombie Lizas attack.....

they were all called "dress shops" for decades. What is the issue?

Yes R73 but that is not what was in question.

The other poster denied that Halston had a “made to measure business” at all and that he only sold sportswear in department stores, never had a private atelier for special clients, etc. which is patently false.

Why is the identity of a woman from the 70s who only worked in a shop, you know, being protected? That's what I don't get. There weren't even any revelations attributed to her.

R48 Liza actually looks fantastic in that pic.

"She dropped a contact."

More like she dropped a baggie of cocaine.

You’re wrong R67. I was there you clown. Another one I spent time in was Adolfo’s on 57th near Madison. I knew one of his house models. There’s a silly column being posted every Thurs at the N.Y. Social Diary called Schulemberg’s page. It is the autobiographical chronicle of a very talented illustrator named Bob. He was a close friend of Streisand’s in her early days and immersed in the arts of NYC in the 60s and 70s. I used to drool as a young queen when he spoke of Barbra, lol. He’s up to about 1972. A number of the people in his column are old friends (older than me, so old now) including the friend who took me to Halston’s shop. The woman who ran his couture business I mentioned in an earlier post was in the column today.

R69, my Moms Halston couture was made to order for her. Got it! Not ready to wear. Her pieces were exquisite. Yes I admire Streisand and I’m a fan of decades- she’s a towering entertainment figure and talent- and activist and philanthropist. I have no special admiration of Mrs O- rather she was a nice, funny and very smart- wit. Dunno where you got that?

Insight into an older man with a terrible coke problem and about as affected a man as I ever met escapes me. I met loads of his ilk in those years- some nicer than others. I’m 66, not 75 and yeah I still have a speedo like bathing suit- smaller actually. I’m still 6’2” 180 pounds and can wear it (on my rotted old fruity body). And I grew up R69, got a PhD, and have had a long career in academic health care still going strong at a major university in NYC. I’ve had a great life- still going and yeah, my best friend David and I could write a book about our lives in NYC. Maybe we will!

R47=Lorna

Up close and personal....scroll down.

Charlie I’m R69 and I was agreeing with everything you said. I think your rebuttal was maybe meant for R67.

I was pointing out to R67 that he was indeed wrong and that clients like Babe Paley and your mom purchased made to measure clothes in that private atelier that were on a whole other level quality wise to Halston’s ready to wear. Even through the ready wear was still plenty gorgeous back in the day.

I also said nothing at all about Jackie or Barbra so I don’t understand why you seem to be attacking me in R81. Maybe you have me confused with another poster?

I’ve always enjoyed your posts and share a love of Nan Kempner with you. I knew her on a very casual basis compared to you, but damn she was a special lady.

[quote]r74 I’m American and sometimes say “shop” if referring to a boutique or very small store.

Yes. And we all use that in certain phrases, "flower shop," "dress shop," etc. We also have "shopkeeper".

I wonder when the last time someone used shoppe was, tho. I pronounce it in my head as "shop-pay." Like Shar-Pei.

The very first cologne I ever bought was Halston Z-14 in 1982 at the I. Magnin store in Chicago.

Christ, I can still remember buying it.

I bought some at Target 2 years ago, R86, and it was a faded resemblance to the original but still took me back and smelled OK.

Liza preferred Metropolis....

Metropolish.

Jackie Kennedy's inauguration day pillbox hat. By Halson.

Another I. Magnin story.

It was '79 or '80 and I will never forget going into the I. Magnin store in Chicago and seeing an entire rack of Halston black velvet men's sportcoats. I can't remember how much they were. I want to say $175, too expensive for a 15 year-old.

They just seemed so fashionable and elegant!!

Fast-forward to the 2000s and, courtesy of eBay, I am now the proud owner of two of them. And the first one I bought has a late-70s department store tag: I. Magnin.

Why do New York disco era gay men live in the past? And if charlie is a [quote]PhD, and have had a long career in academic health care still going strong at a major university in NYC,

....then why does he never sign "charlie" to posts that have something to do with academia or healthcare?

He's always lecturing about Streisand, Aretha, Garland and Liza. Why young gay men should appreciate them. Or he's non-gossipping about Warhol or Halston. Name dropping. He thinks it's still special to have been hit in the balcony and fucked in the basement. As long as it's NYC 1977. (He'll correct the DETAILS of this assumption in his next post)

Chuck is not the least bit learned or refined in his sharing of other tastes or experiences. Not that I've noticed. He displays no wit and offers no insight. He hints at a certain obnoxious wealth the way only poor Jews do. It's not real or he would never mention it. He tries not to be, but he's tacky.

Charlie never signs his name to anything important, but that old queen is vicious when challenged. Amusing. He's obviously who he says. A once not bad looking guy who had some fun 45 years ago. He had some money and sex appeal because he sure wouldn't be invited for his personality or wild ways. His defenses are still reserved for all the worst people? Loyalty to old friends is nice. To burned out celebrities who don't know your name is a bit sad. Everyone's youth is glamorous. Charlie doesn't know that.

In something smaller than a speedo - old academic dude still looks good at 66? He's too ponderous to be a fraud and too pleased with himself to realize that he's uncool and tacky. He's a Streisand expert. BARF. Like Baked Alaska in the Catskills. Kiked up goy drek. From days gone by.

[quote]they were all called "dress shops" for decades.

Damn right!

[quote] [R35], the 1983 deal might of been worth a billion if successful; it was not and thus no billion dollars accrued (to him). Wikipeda should elaborate.

You stated that Halston was "bridges burned" "through" when he signed the JC Penny deal. I pointed out that his success and his relationships up until that point are why he was potentially worth a billion dollars to JC Pennys. The articles that were written at the time and since then are pretty clear. They don't claim that JC Penny's gave Halston a check for a billion dollars. They state the deal was worth a billion dollars.

[quote] The thing with Charlie is that none of his personal info about his mother buying couture or a friend of a friend was at the same atelier as Halston were necessary. Because all he really had to say is that Halston did a lot of coke and wasn't a nice guy to anyone but celebrities. That's not news or inside info. There is no insight, nothing special in his details that any casual reader of life doesn't know from Google. But of course - he indicates there's more he cannot share. Doesn't bother me, he's a drone and a schoolmarm at the best of times.

You hit the nail on the head. Charlie has yet to offer any bit on info that is not already published. He's read the same stuff that many of us have read. He takes those details and combines them with what he presents as his own personal biography. We're supposed to be impressed with that. Perhaps is you don't read or cannot read; it is impressive. Then when called out he gets really snobby and nasty. We get an announcement about his family's purported wealth and an overview of his supposed resume. Neither of which anyone cares about.

[quote] [R55] Charlie come back. Ignore the assholes. Your posts are always interesting and appreciated. I’m a fellow New Yorker of your generation and can tell from some of the smaller, less noticed details in your posts that you are for real and not a bullshitter.

Perhaps you appreciate them. That's nice. As I said before. Those who don't read or can't may find them to be impressive. I personally don'r find them to be even remotely interesting. Usually they are about his days as a shop girl. This one was about a shop girl friend's friend.

Oh my god how tiresome.

Halston was apparently a naturally unpleasant person, but cocaine ramped it up x10. That's what really did him in professionally, according to this doc and other sources. Coke affected his judgement in both personal and business affairs, affected his creativity, and the screaming temper tantrums were enough to drive many people away.

If you've ever had dealings with a cokehead, you know what it's like. They are unbearable to be around.

That's not necessarily true R97. Cokeheads don't all have screaming temper tantrums and it can be a very intimate drug between friends. Even more so as you come and go into the unexpected life of someone who does a lot of coke. There can be a lot a trust there. I did a lot of coke ( and crack ) and I've demonstrated and witnessed bad behavior, but never a turn on a real friend. Nope. We had a young girl ( a neighbour) who almost died in our loft and we had all been up for days, but we still knew enough to call 911 and come clean about what we were up to. Not that a three day coke binge can hide. Halston is more likely the prototype of a terrible man, who was gay with a lot of money. He had a never ending stream of black rentboys to fuck him, a never ending stream of cocaine and a never ending faghag in Liza Minnelli. Because everyone else knew he was poison. She says he was her best friend? Then the rumors about her must be true. Not the ones about her drug use. Some very dark perversions are in a bio about Liza.

Why should Liza take the fall for Halston? I am not connecting the dots here.. She seems to be a lovely person.

And any interesting person, if they were ever fun, hot or fascinating has snorted powder coke. So I agree with you that coke does NOT make most people vile, in fact in my experience - it is quite the opposite. I wonder if Halston was just vile to begin with. I still have DVRed his CNN movie this weekend whatever the case...

So Liza is to Halston as Jonathan Groff is to Lea Michele?

Please. There are plenty of people who turn into raging assholes when they are on coke, especially if they use it chronically. Halston was one of those people.

Some people are happy drunks, and some people are angry drunks as well.

SheNN — love you op!!!

What rumors, R98, and dark perversions?

What a strange conversation. We used to think that cocaine made us feel more powerfully yourself, creative, enlightened, productive, intimate and awake (like WOKE) than ever. Because we were. And it did. It WAS good dope. Just too addictive. Because after 3 or 4 days without sleep it's not as much fun but you can't stop and things can get kinky and brazen and psychotic. Unlike alcohol, dope brings out the true nature of someone. People don't kill or hurt others on cocaine - but they might get jealous and greedy. Because aren't we all? Dope means weed or cocaine = truth. Cocaine binges go best with some straight booze, as a bit of a social norm, nervous system downer and distractor. YUM.

r105 cocaine can turn a lot of people into raging mega-assholes. I don't know where you got your delusions that everybody who takes coke is "fun." It can be a nightmare to have to work with certain cokeheads.

Sorry R84- you’re right, I was responding to R69.

Someone asked: I sign almost all my posts, sometimes I forget and yes I answer lots of medical questions etc and sign my name. I live very much in the present. But then Halston is from the past, isn’t he as is most of my name dropping.

Insight- so R95 what do you want to know about Roy? Yes I was at his home- first met him through that boss I spoke of now deceased, Danny Zarem who was a big retail exec in the men’s fashion world- he brought Pierre Cardin to NYC in the 60s at Bonwit teller.

Anyway, H was a very insecure and unpleasant man- my opinion. I don’t know whether coke made him nasty or if he just was! I suspect the latter exacerbated by the coke. Joe Eula and Angelo Donghia (sp) were creative friends- H spent a lot of time in Pines at Angelo’s house. H liked hustlers- nasty hustlers- he was self destructive. There was never any chance that he would have a partner who was remotely his equal in intellect or talent. He courted people like Liza- she was a big star, but he eventually alienated everyone. That friend whose name I will not share who took care of his couture customers grew to despise him- she is one of the most elegant and down to earth women I’ve ever known. She was also a friend of Bob S. the illustrator who is writing an illustrated chronicle of his life in the 69s and 60s in NY Social Diary. She’s in Bob’s columns and I’m sure when Bob gets up to the mid 70s he may talk about her working with H. She was also a friend of Liza’s. She’s a few years older than Liza.

Met Liza too- she was lovely. Nice as can be- I would even use the word normal- which was surreal considering her background and life. Of course I know of all her problems but I never saw any of that. I agree with R98. Bios of her mother indicate that Liza has been around heavy shit- I can see why she might have been drawn to H aside from the duds. It’s what she knew- caretaking an addict. But that’s speculation.

As for selling hankies (pocket squares) at AO from 78-84, I sure did. And some of the most beautiful men’s clothes I’ve ever seen. One of the reasons I was hired (by Zarem) was because he knew of my connections to the Kempners and others (I’ll spare you). I was the perfect “image”for that store. It was fun for a while-,by ‘84 I was parttime and back in school- I became quite alienated with the world of fashion etc.

Have at me again!

Fix: 60s and 70s in NY Social Diary

^^^^ I think you mean you were responding to R67... he’s the jerk who said Halston had no Couture business. :-)

Kal Ruttenstein told me that after a Halston fashion show in Olympic Towers, he went up to congratulate Mr. Frowick who said very grandly and pretentiously: "We thonk you". Friend lived next door to Halston's legendary black glass town house at 101 East 63rd Street and he would frequently see black stud hustlers being dropped off to service Halston. On a Friday afternoon in the early 80s, I passed the townhouse and there in the back seat of a limo were Liza and Elsa Peretti. Horse-hung Victor Hugo was loading up the trunk and both gals tried to pick me up.

LOVE Elsa! She’s fucking amazing.

I think I remember Bob from Jonny McGovern's podcast.

FIT sack of potatoes interviewing Karen Bjornson is an embarrassment! She gets the month wrong (of the interview) and mispronounces Karen's last name. So typical of the gal staffers /curators/scholars at FIT.

I think Liza is a genuinely nice person who is able to keep friends. And I've never heard or read of her saying anything bad about anyone, and Lord knows she's seen a lot of shit.

The Halston III collection for JCPenney was actually a huge hit for its first few seasons. Sold out across the country.

Then Halston's drug use took over, he missed deadlines and got fired from his own company. His assistant took over and the line folded.

If he had held it together, he would have been the first mass-market fashion billionaire. But he sabotaged himself.

I tried to show Halston my pussy—but he demurred.

Of our divas, Liza definitely was the dancing one!

I don't understand why everyone on here shits on Charlie. Some of us wants to hear what he says. If you don't agree fine, but I think some of you are jealous. Others of us want to hear his gossip and wish he would post more. I have been on DL for over a decade and it pisses me off the way people on here go after authenticated gay men with such vitriol. Gay men who actually have gossip and have met these people. Yet, you all love Della. We really do go after our own. Charlie, I hope you don't stop posting and just ignore the couple of posters who continually raze you.

That being said, I remember when Halston's line debuted at JC Penney. It got a lot of publicity but definitely cheapened his brand. I, a lez, bought one of his blouses. The line was not popular for long.

I concur r118, I’ve felt the same for years. With all the true trash on this site, it still amazes me that some choose to use their energy on Charlie of all people. Do you truly need to die on this hill? Give me a fucking break! Charlie’s posts are just fine, go pick on someone else you cunts.

It's been laid quite plainly (and accurately) that Charlie doesn't say much of anything.

*It's been laid out

And r120? So? Every time you post to point it out, you slow down discussion. It’s a blip on your radar, let it go already.

[Quote] So?

If there's no content to his posts, there's no gossip. Someone above stated Charlie brought gossip. He doesn't.

And again, why can’t you let it go? I don’t even want to debate the content of his posts — are you the DL Quality Control Manager? Inspecting each and every post, only Grade AAA Gossip will attain your stamp of approval?

[quote] I don't understand why everyone on here shits on Charlie.

[quote] I concur [R118], I’ve felt the same for years. With all the true trash on this site, it still amazes me that some choose to use their energy on Charlie of all people. Do you truly need to die on this hill? Give me a fucking break! Charlie’s posts are just fine, go pick on someone else you cunts.

As I already pointed out; Charlie doesn’t post anything that has not already been published and is common knowledge among people who read. He mixes that with a list of names and anecdotes about how rich and beautiful he is. If you don’t read or cannot. Perhaps you find that fascinating. It’s not. He comes off like a phony pretentious jerk.

[quote] And again, why can’t you let it go? I don’t even want to debate the content of his posts — are you the DL Quality Control Manager? Inspecting each and every post, only Grade AAA Gossip will attain your stamp of approval?

Obviously that is your job.

No r126, it’s NOT my job, I see that logic isn’t your strong suit. I’ve no dog in this fight. I just don’t see his posts as so objectionable that you need to *pounce* every time the man posts. Save it for truly egregious posters — say bigots for example? Homophobes?

And AGAIN, r125, you can’t let it go. Inspector #125.

Charlie posts that he can't reveal the identity of the woman who ran Halston's dress shop on Madison Avenue in the 1970s. He doesn't attriubte any controversial or indiscreet comments to this woman. Then he claims the woman was named in a column by someone he does name. You don't get how that pointless trip around the fucking garden grates?

*attribute

R128, I strongly suspect that you are ageist too. Many of us here have acquaintances that are “Charlies.” If you don’t know an Elder Gay (no disrespect!) who tells stories that may at times be exaggerated or speckled with name dropping, well, then your life is a little less colorful. Maybe his stories are a trip around the fucking garden gates.....Who gives a flying FUCK I say? Stop policing already!!!! I. Don’t. Give. A. Fuck. And others don’t either. If you don’t like his posts, simply skip the fuck on, got it? It isn’t complicated.

[quote] No [R126], it’s NOT my job, I see that logic isn’t your strong suit. I’ve no dog in this fight. I just don’t see his posts as so objectionable that you need to *pounce* every time the man posts. Save it for truly egregious posters — say bigots for example? Homophobes? And AGAIN, [R125], you can’t let it go. Inspector #125.

I personally don’t “need to do anything. I commented about one of his posts. Obviously (according to your records) many people feel the same way. I’m not sure what you can do to change that. Lashing out at me is not the answer.

[quote] [R128], I strongly suspect that you are ageist too. Many of us here have acquaintances that are “Charlies.” If you don’t know an Elder Gay (no disrespect!) who tells stories that may at times be exaggerated or speckled with name dropping, well, then your life is a little less colorful. Maybe his stories are a trip around the fucking garden gates.....Who gives a flying FUCK I say? Stop policing already!!!! I. Don’t. Give. A. Fuck. And others don’t either. If you don’t like his posts, simply skip the fuck on, got it? It isn’t complicated.

I’m not R28. However, young or old, my reaction would be the same. Because you have acquaintances who lie and you find that charming. Are we all supposed to feel the same way? News Flash: you and Charlie may also skip and ignore whatever you choose.

R131, I am stating that others feel the same way because more than one person has said so on this thread alone, nevermind other threads.

I apologize for lashing out. I will be frank — when people do this to Charlie, I have seen it many times escalate to full tilt bullying, and when I see *any* human being bullied, I get very Joan of Arc. I reflexively defend people/animals that are being abused, I can’t help it. And again, it’s not because I worship him or his posts, it’s actually just that I don’t like posters ganging up on one long-time member. It’s not like the man is evil

His clothes dance with you.

[Quote] Stop policing already!!!!

Irony.

R132, I never said they “lie,” I’m saying that they are colorful story tellers. It is true that I can skip your posts, but the difference is that your posts are attacking another poster — his are just adding to the stories. There is a huge difference.

R135, so when you see someone on the street getting smacked around, you just look away, hmmm? Charlie has been eviscerated on countless threads for at least the last two years. It’s so “ironic” that some stand up for him on mother fucking principle.

I haven't eviscerated him. Pointing out that he's essentially a pricktease is not eviscerating him. And he continues to post... You seem more bothered than he does.

Muriel needs to nuke this thread.

This is why we can't have nice things.

R138, I said he’s been eviscerated on other threads — that is a fact. If you don’t believe me, do some digging. I’ve been here a lot time. DL has lost some of its stable, its original cast of characters. Fine, things change.

But some here don’t want to see every single last old-timer pushed out, particularly by assholes (not calling you an asshole). The tone of the complaints on this thread is how it ALWAYS starts up with him. It then escalates into vicious and truly sick attacks, I’ve seen it countless times. And you and I both don’t know how it makes him feel, what do you expect him to do, post that it hurts his feelings? That won’t happen. Maybe he gives no fucks at all? My point is that his “sins” aren’t worth bitching about every mother fucking time he posts, and I know I’m not the only one fed up with it. You’re fed up with him? Cool. I am fed up with ganging up on long-time posters. Charlie really did live through those times — why not hear what he has to say, absorb the history, and throw away what is likely exaggerated or nonsense? If you chase him away, we lose a piece of history.

[Quote] why not hear what he has to say, absorb the history, and throw away what is likely exaggerated or nonsense? If you chase him away, we lose a piece of history.

That's all very nice - your impression of Charlie's posts - but there are people here who find no insight in his posts. Both "sides" are entitled to their opinion. Neither is going to shut the other up. And Charlie will continue to post. If Charlie works in academia, he's used to criticism. And if people get particularly nasty... they don't know him, so how much can it hurt?

[quote] [R132], I never said they “lie,” I’m saying that they are colorful story tellers. It is true that I can skip your posts, but the difference is that your posts are attacking another poster — his are just adding to the stories. There is a huge difference.

Someone is being criticized! Well this has certainly never happened on Datalounge before. Call the authorities.

[quote] [R135], so when you see someone on the street getting smacked around, you just look away, hmmm? Charlie has been eviscerated on countless threads for at least the last two years. It’s so “ironic” that some stand up for him on mother fucking principle.

Who here has not been criticized or as you call it “eviscerated?”

Again I’m not sure what you can do about how people react to Charlie’s posts. Obviously many people feel the same way about them.

[quote] Muriel needs to nuke this thread.

It’s no different than any other so perhaps they should all be nuked.

Ok r143. So you can’t see the difference between a poster like Charlie versus a troll? You believe they should all be treated the same?

R142, how long have you been here, I’m genuinely curious?

This thread is sinking. Call in Barbara.....

[quote] Ok [R143]. So you can’t see the difference between a poster like Charlie versus a troll? You believe they should all be treated the same?

If he’s being treated like a troll. It is because he initiates that response. Again I’m not sure what you can do about how people react to Charlie’s posts. Obviously many people feel the same way about them. Do you believe his posts should come with a disclaimer to help manage how people react?

Do worry- I can take it, lol. I know who I am and I know the truth. I will not name my friend as say I would Danny Zarem because she is alive and very private. I don’t think you would be able to pick her out on Bob’s NY Social Diary column. It’s very hard to describe the amazing intersection of the gay NYC world with the arts and politics of NYC in the 70s. It really was an extraordinary time. Some people thrived and others like Halston let it go to their heads and we’re destroyed.

Don’t worry! Oops

This thread is sinking. Call in Barbra.

Barbara's available!

Wasn't the fat and hideous Pat Ast the manager of his couture division?

Pancakes Barbara!

R147, I’m done with the back and forth. I can indeed let it go. I lament that others here cannot. It really isn’t hard to do, and it actually feels wonderful!

Charlie/r148, I figured as much. For me, it’s more the principle of it all. I’ve actually seen unthinkable venom spewed at Della the last few years as well. Of all people. And I know she’s just fine — but it creates an atmosphere where others are less relaxed in their sharing. At times when I’ve visited very old threads, the tone in them was often nice, friendly, and even (dare I say) SWEET. It was sweet. In the era of Trump, I defend kindness and congeniality. Thanks for listening.

[Quote] it actually feels wonderful!

Are you wearing less than a speedo as well?

[quote] Charlie/[R148], I figured as much. For me, it’s more the principle of it all. I’ve actually seen unthinkable venom spewed at Della the last few years as well. Of all people. And I know she’s just fine — but it creates an atmosphere where others are less relaxed in their sharing. At times when I’ve visited very old threads, the tone in them was often nice, friendly, and even (dare I say) SWEET. It was sweet. In the era of Trump, I defend kindness and congeniality. Thanks for listening.

You saw “unthinkable venom” spewed here? I just don’t believe it.

Datalounge was no different before Trump.

Pat Ast was a brilliant cinematic actress of note, I'll have you know, r152. I really had to keep up with that one!

Lmao! No r155, not at all. I’m a pasty white Polish-Irish thing, so I don’t want my glaring whiteness to burn out the retinas of beach goers. I tend to occupy habitats where pants and long sleeves are the common dress code. I pray that my high cheekbones and jet black hair make up for my pallor.....

R156, how long have you been here? I’m genuinely curious.

"Ast made her screen debut after meeting director John Schlesinger, who cast her as a party guest in his film Midnight Cowboy (1969). Around that time, she caught the attention of fashion designer Halston, who gave her a job at his boutique and made her one of his models, despite the fact that she weighed 210 pounds."

Liza made me tear up a bit there. She's a loyal friend.

Ewan McGregor will be playing Halston in a limited series.

Not all of us find what Charlie posts not interesting, useless and without insight. Maybe you grew up in NYC during the same time period but many of us didn't and what he posts is not common knowledge to all of us. And I agree with R133 that you get so nasty to him that it is bullying. This seems to go back years ago when he stated he knew Lena Horne and didnt think she was gay. Ever since then there have been a couple of you that just go after him when he posts like you did on the Lena Horne thread. So what? He knew her and is entitled to his opinion. What bothers me is this type of bullying keeps people from posting gossip and keeps Charlie from posting more. If you think it is not interesting just read it and move on to the next reply.

R161 They both have great hair.

R162, had forgotten about that one. She was a lovely person, a friend of a guy named Ed Newell who was the store manager at that fancy men’s store where I worked. She came in all the time- bought gifts for her male friends. Ed, who was gay, never even hinted that she was, which does not mean that she was not of course. So I doubted it. Bisexual perhaps. Ed knew quite a few entertainment types because he was a top male model around 1960- friends with Ali McGraw and Jane Fonda among others. I recall a great tale he told me about banging Jane over a bathroom sink at a party. Trust me, I don’t think about these things at all unless I am on these DL threads.

[quote] If you think it is not interesting just read it and move on to the next reply.

We all have options, including you.

He was no Adrian......

R166 = MUST have the last word, MUST disagree

Late to the party, but besides Anjelica, Shelley Hack, and Pat Cleveland in R11's image, I also spot Karen Bjornson, Apollonia van Ravenstein, Lynn Woodruff, and Pola. Lynn went on to marry actor Sam Waterston, and Pola (Paula Klimak) walked off the roof of a highrise, strung out on heroin and pcp.

What the fuck is a "Halston"?

"Pola (Paula Klimak) walked off the roof of a highrise, strung out on heroin and pcp."

So how's she doing?

R171, I'm happy to report that she kicked her drug habit that very day.

"What the fuck is a "Halston"?"

I believe he was a milliner of some sort.

Not a Bonnie Cashin, r170.....

Anybody watch the CNN show?

It was a good documentary. He was a genius, but SO fucked up

bump

r177=Moron

r178 = jerk

Cutting fabric on the bias doesn't make him a genius. But he did revive the caftan. He could see Liz and Liza's future obviously.

Sad ending to a brilliant life.

"Yet, you all love Della." You're sweeet r118.

I'm not loved and that's OK. I just stick to my lanes - politics and gossip, and perhaps that's appreciated.

Speaking of love, however, I've always LOVED Charlie's posts. They're entertaining to read and always have the ring of credibility to them. I'm glad people are sticking up for Charlie.

Well r80 many notable people in the fashion world have called him a genius so I'll take their word over yours.

r80 is about Liza. If you're iffy with using the correct reply numbers, just quote the whole text instead.

Liza is one of the last survivors of that whole era. It can't be easy no matter what she says, because it all ended so soon and so tragically. It had to be shocking.

It's not like it ended for Liza. She did "Stepping Out".

There is enough material in the JCPenney and Esmark episodes for a full-length documentary explaining how Halston came to be forced out of his own company -- this documentary was a good overview, but it tried to cover too much ground.

Watching it now! Sad when they tried pushing him out but his spending was out of control

I thought it was good. I was happy that they focused on his work rather than his personal life.

His personal life was really sleazy. Nobody could understand WTF he saw in Victor Hugo. Halston's inner circle couldn't stand him.

Liza Minnelli was always a troll too. What in the hell did anyone see in her? She didn't even wear his clothes well. But Pat Cleveland, there's a bit of magic. He had the coolest models for sure.

Didn't Victor have a huge cock?

R192, not really.

His brother was a gorgeous looking man. They were quite exotic looking boys from Iowa.

There were a lot of great contributors for this documentary, so it should have been so much better. It kind of skimmed over everything. His personal life should not have been ignored and even his clothes and the collections themselves were not shown to great advantage. I believe a lot was done to protect Liza Minnelli. Because the stories of Halston's non stop gang bangs and endless black hustlers, the rough trade and insatiable appetites, the parties and drugs and the hedonism are very well known. His friends were around. He didn't just lose his business and then get sick and die. He worked long and hard at destroying his reputation and himself. The CNN effort barely touched on this, though his arch demeanor and prissy bitchiness is on display. The workroom stuff was well done and documented and the final family reunion images were unexpectedly moving. They didn't avoid the AIDS topic, but why not say more about his personal life and sexuality and drug problems? You don't do a documentary about Janis Joplin and fail to mention she was a heroin addict. What they showed was interesting, but I was left with no feel for the man himself.

Elsa Peretti deserves a documentary of her own. She is a fascinating woman and artist. Beautiful work, a most eventful life.

....

///(

Liked this tidbit from r195's article:

When she was on the campaign trail with John Kennedy she needed dozens of hats for her sundry public appearances. The future First Lady, however, was not particularly fond of hats. First, at that time she wore her hair in a big bouffant, and, second, she had an extremely large head and felt that hats weren’t becoming to her. In fact, it was because her head was so large that Halston became invaluable to her. Halston and Jacqueline Kennedy had the same head size. “Before the hats were sent to her,” remembered Tom Fallon, who was then Halston’s assistant, “Halston would put them on his head and sit there and look at them with two mirrors, one behind him and one in front, turning his head at different angles to make sure they looked right.”

Big head Jackie!

Fallon went on to become Bill Blass's assistant- business manager really. Don't know what his title was. Very nice guy. He used to have great cocktail parties- best looking guys in NYC. I remember him saying once that a really good cocktail party is one with lots of booze a very little to eat. That way the party takes off fast and ends sooner and guys have a great time.

Tom Fallon has a great house on Shelter Island.

Yes Tom Fallon is a truly lovely person and was a rarity in an industry that was mainly full of noxious assholes, especially on the business side of things. See: Barry Schwartz of Calvin Klein, Inc.

So was it mostly the drugs that brought Halston down? Still, he had incredible success before his fall and he was going to die young anyway. The documentary made it seem that his big mistake was selling out to JC Penny. Did he do that just for money?

So was it mostly the drugs that brought Halston down? Still, he had incredible success before his fall and he was going to die young anyway. The documentary made it seem that his big mistake was selling out to JC Penny. Did he do that just for money?

I was surprised how a documentary on such a glamorous man could be so boring.

I still laugh about Liza thinking that HSN was trying to sell off her original Halston pieces.

Halston's estate should have sued her for selling Halston knock-offs on HSN.

I didn't like it when they did that to my mother.....or my father. Or me R204. I won't do it to Halston and I won't have it here.

Liza on HSN never gets old. She is as high as a kite.

[quote] "Yet, you all love Della." You're sweeet [R118]. I'm not loved and that's OK. I just stick to my lanes - politics and gossip, and perhaps that's appreciated.

You don’t challenge the bigotry and the bullshit. That is what dataloungers appreciate.

HUH? Della is not interesting. People DO need to challenge the bigotry here. Nobody gives a fuck about her or charlie. He's an affected old bore who just repeats shit that he read elsewhere. I imagine charlie to be a lot like Halston. Super prissy elder gay man with affected facial expressions. A queen with attitude. Della is some old fat woman who likes to make fun of what people wear. She thinks that saltines and butter are classy. There are far more interesting women, men and others who post here.

I repeat. People DO need to challenge the bigotry on Datalounge. To his credit, charlie does.

R207 in which part of my post did I argue that the bigotry does not need to be challenged.

Then we are in agreement R208. Thanks. Your post might have been complimenting or commenting on it.

Hi, Georgia!

[quote] Then we are in agreement [R208]. Thanks. Your post might have been complimenting or commenting on it.

It’s not a compliment!

r207, What the fuck?

Find me "not interesting". Dislike me or be apathetic or indifferent about me. Ignore me.

But me not challenging bigotry here at the DL? Bullshit.

On Datalounge, I've been posting at right-wing, Republican racist bigots to fuck-off since John Kerry was the Democratic nominee for POTUS. I used to post as "Della Gette", not that I'd expect you to know or care.

I've taken and withstood a lot of flames here at the DL, some deserved, most not. But I draw the line at being accused of not challenging bigotry.

There are plenty of non-republican racist bigots right here on DL. And most of them are the OG oldtimers. Old white gay men. And Della who says nothing but aren't you sweeeet when they buy her a beer. She's the fat chick accepted into the gay bar of Datalounge. A sycophant.

Halston was owned by Norton Simon Inc., a conglomerate which was acquired by Esmark in 1983. Esmark was neither interested nor impressed with the fashion house; they were interested in Norton Simon's holdings in the food industry. When Esmark merged into Beatrice Foods the following year, Halston was lumped into their Playtex beauty division, and further demoted. When Ron Perelman of Revlon bought Playtex beauty in 1986, Halston was initially hopeful of designing clothes again, but a few rough deals for Ron around that time gave him cold feet.

R214 here: Also worth mentioning that the J C Penney agreement was, at least in part, triggered by competitiveness with his former Pretender to the Throne, Calvin Klein. By that time, Calvin had hit huge success with the jeans and underwear licenses, and a new deal with Warner fragrances would yield [italic]Obsession[/italic]. Calvin was reaching the next generation of Halstonettes - because the jeans and underwear, coupled with a shift in fashion and music tastes, bred a generation of girls who thought of Calvin as the designer for them (and Brooke Shields as the girl they wanted to look like,) and Halston as a relic of the bygone, disco-era.

[quote] When Esmark merged into Beatrice Foods the following year, Halston was lumped into their Playtex beauty division, and further demoted.

We’d known Beatrice all along.

Funny that fat ass bourbon swilling, bloated coke face Liz Taylor made more from "her" perfumes than constantly creative Halston did in his entire lifetime. Don't think for a minute that Liza and Liz and Jagger's wife aren't still protected while others take the fall. Halston made the same mistake that Capote and other celebrated gay men of that era did. They thought they could behave as badly as their more famous and fabulous (straight) friends. He loved the reflected glory and the party. So he hosted and paid. The ladies came. But sensitive, ambitious and creative men like Halston, Warhol and Capote need to work. And that takes concentration and a lot of time. They are of no use when they cease to be en vogue. That's why Halston's models were the best contributors to this documentary. They worked with him and understood him best. He didn't treat them well, but he cared about them. That's the best he could do in human relations.

Is there a good Halston biography aside from Steven Gaines's SIMPLY HALSTON?

"Halston made the same mistake that Capote and other celebrated gay men of that era did. They thought they could behave as badly as their more famous and fabulous (straight) friends. "

A common mistake among arrivistes, fashionable artistes, and those who serve the upper classes closely. They forget that although they may socialize with the highest and wealthiest levels of society, they aren't actually members of said high levels, and their "friends" won't protect them the way they'd protect one of their own.

Also, if you have a reputation for being a bastard, absolutely everyone will take a swipe at you the instant they detect vulnerability.

Della is cool, leave her alone. She's not a bigot at all.

Liza is always polite and gracious. She does not speak ill of anyone. A class act.

Liza is a class act? No, she's not. Neither is she a bitch. She's demanding to underlings and surrounded by a few such friends who keep her "safe." The whole documentary would be different if she didn't threaten to sue. You noticed how little she was willing to give. She has a zillion terrific secrets and has seen many truly bad things. In her adulthood. She's a corrupt woman to be honest. Always has been creepy. She's a pisces, so she can get sober in a day. The wink and twinkle in her eye would surprise you. She's done unspeakable things and witnessed worse without objection. Her story MIGHT get told, if she dies soon. With some empathy. Marisa Berenson was the creepiest person in this documentary. Haute haute haute Vampire.

[Quote] She's done unspeakable things

David Gest, for one.

"She's done unspeakable things."

Like her rendition of "Bad Girls".

[quote]I’ve had a great life- still going and yeah, my best friend David and I could write a book about our lives in NYC. Maybe we will!

So you can bore even more people?

Unshpeakable thingsh!

[quote]She's demanding to underlings and surrounded by a few such friends who keep her "safe."

R223. About 8 years ago, I worked with Liza during one of her gigs singing with a symphony orchestra. She was a big hit with the audience, and she was thoroughly professional and an absolute delight to the administration, musicians and crew.

Liza seems to be a class act in my book. Loved the documentary and I love Halston. He does come off as an asshole, but a VERY talented one. He was a good decade plus before my time, but he has always been mythic and always will be.

He was a genius and a visionary. There would be no high/low approach to design, no Target or H&M collaborations — at least not on the same timeline — without him going first.

The JCPenney line was a massive hit on its release — sold out immediately.

It died because Halston disappeared and wouldn't make the deadlines, and the corporate overlords didn't manage him properly: They needed to find a way to humor him while bringing in talented assistants to do the actual work, and they all could have raked in the cash. Instead, they brought in a costume designer to replace him and pushed him out.

R230 understands nothing about the arrogance of cocaine addicts or the burnout of creativity. Halston was not a visionary when he sold his name to JC Penny. He was way too much a snob to believe in that deal. He just wanted everyone to wear his clothes. His name on everything. He more destroyed than created the putting your damn name on everything trend. We are immersed in its meaningless now. He agreed to it because he was greedy and tired and cokehead delusional. He expected everyone around him to work three times as hard, while he got gangbanged in that hideous townhouse. Did you watch the fucking show?

Gangbang bottoms work more than three times as hard.

[quote]"He was way too much a snob to believe in that deal. He just wanted everyone to wear his clothes."

How does wanting everyone to wear his clothes befit a snob, R231? A snob would want the opposite.

A visionary said that people in Des Moines and Wichita can wear fashionable designs (just in cheaper fabrics - acrylic instead of cashmere, for instance).

That's what everyone ultimately did in a decade. For good or for ill.

Jesus Christ. You act like there were no cheap knockoffs of collections before Halston did that terrible baby blue dress with fake feathers for JCPenny R 233. I like what you have to say about a few things -but not this. You ignore the logic or my statement that cocaine addicts who are as big of asshole personality as Halston WAS, might be grandiose enough to think they can put their superstar models on a runway for JC Penny in stiff powder blue acrylic, and not lose prestige at Bergdorf's. Halston was the furthest thing from an egalitarian. He might well have designed some great stuff in cheap fabrics, but neither of us knows that. The deal failed within a few years. He was fired before that - then he died.

A snob did want the opposite btw. That's why he failed.

Is R231/R234 a certain twink actor of the time who hung around Halston then and today is suffering from HIV-related dementia?

AIDSH

You sheem to have an axsh to grind with my besht friend, R231/R234!

Well, LET'SH HEAR IT, BITSCH!

I wasn't even born in 1980, R235. Is saying someone has HIV related dementia a thing that old fags do? I don't think so. Come up with other ways to disagree with me crazy ass. I was always sexy but never a twink. We mature early. Halston didn't go for twinks anyway crazy ass R235. I see you post under more than one device. That is all that illuminates you now. RIP Halston. What a ridiculous man he was.

"...cocaine addicts who are as big of asshole personality as Halston WAS, might be grandiose enough to think they can put their superstar models on a runway for JC Penny in stiff powder blue acrylic, and not lose prestige at Bergdorf's"

Well, there's nothing like a raging and extremely expensive coke habit to help a person get over their snobbery.

Liza Minnelli was besties with Michael Jackson and I'm sure she knew about his "friendships" with young boys

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Liza and Michael Jackson were not really friends. They knew each other.

Nonsense. They used to sing "Mama Say Mama Sa, Mamakossa" around the piano.

Side note to Charlie, I agree with R162. I, too, enjoy your contributions. I fail to understand why some people would take the time to criticize or challenge you when instead they could simply skip to the next item. No one is forcing them to read what you or any of us post on DL.

[Quote] No one is forcing them to read what you or any of us post on DL.

As if everyone reads the signature before reading the main body of text...

[quote] She's a pisces, so she can get sober in a day.

Grow up.

Liza on Michael Jackson: 'Of all my friends, he was the most normal'

'I miss (MJ) him...and I miss Bubbles, too...'

Just block Charlie if you don't want to read anything by him. Simple.

If you don't block someone but instead make sure to show up wherever they are to deride them whenever they post, you're a creepy mutherfucker.

[Quote] make sure to show up wherever they are

Yes, dear. People are clicking on threads to see if charlie is posting in them. That's it. That's exactly it.

[quote] Side note to Charlie, I agree with [R162]. I, too, enjoy your contributions. I fail to understand why some people would take the time to criticize or challenge you when instead they could simply skip to the next item. No one is forcing them to read what you or any of us post on DL.

Unlike the people who are forcing you to read the criticism.

We are all subject to having our posts critiqued. The rules are the same for everyone.