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Entry DENIED: Omar and Talib banned from visiting Israel

JERUSALEM — Israel on Thursday barred the entry of two American Democratic congresswomen who had planned to visit the West Bank, the deputy foreign minister on Israeli radio said, hours after President Trump had urged the country to ban them.

Mr. Trump’s intervention was an extraordinary step to influence an allied nation and punish his political opponents at home.

It was reported last week that Mr. Trump was pressing Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel to deny entrance to the two women, Representatives Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib, and Thursday morning he left little doubt. He said in a Twitter post while Israeli officials were still deliberating the matter that “it would show great weakness if Israel allowed Rep. Omar and Rep. Tlaib to visit.”

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by Anonymousreply 221August 20, 2019 9:42 PM

This thread will no doubt be a bastion for Jew hating, but almost every Jew I am friends with on social media is horrified.

by Anonymousreply 1August 15, 2019 3:46 PM

Hope TRUMP takes this so far, he refuses them entry back into the US.

by Anonymousreply 2August 15, 2019 3:48 PM

They're terrified of 2 freshman Congresswoman lmao. Trump isn't going to look well in history for this. These freshman Congresswomen have made history in their first term. They will be looked at favorably in history.

by Anonymousreply 3August 15, 2019 3:57 PM

Both of these members have supported BDS and Hamas. Not difficult to see why Israel would refuse their entry.

by Anonymousreply 5August 15, 2019 3:59 PM

r1 I'm a half-Jew and I don't care.

by Anonymousreply 6August 15, 2019 4:01 PM

Why are they exponentially increasing their carbon footprints going to Israel on the taxpayers' dime?

by Anonymousreply 7August 15, 2019 4:02 PM

r7 Why is any US representative travelling anywhere at all? Just fire the entire diplomatic corps, so you'll save some money. What a stupid fucking question.

by Anonymousreply 8August 15, 2019 4:07 PM

R8, legislators aren't diplomats. What are they doing going there? What does it have to do with their committee assignments?

Retard.

by Anonymousreply 9August 15, 2019 4:11 PM

@realDonaldTrump It would show great weakness if Israel allowed Rep. Omar and Rep.Tlaib to visit. They hate Israel & all Jewish people, & there is nothing that can be said or done to change their minds. Minnesota and Michigan will have a hard time putting them back in office. They are a disgrace!

Oy vey

by Anonymousreply 10August 15, 2019 4:15 PM

Never fails to shock me, still, the shit he gets away with posting.

by Anonymousreply 11August 15, 2019 4:22 PM

Why won’t that asteroid just fucking destroy this planet already?

by Anonymousreply 12August 15, 2019 4:23 PM

R3, I think this is just the proverbial blip on the radar of how and why history won't look favorably on Trump.

by Anonymousreply 13August 15, 2019 4:24 PM

Or Criminal Bibi

by Anonymousreply 14August 15, 2019 4:25 PM

What do Omar and Tlaib hope to achieve by going to Israel?

by Anonymousreply 15August 15, 2019 4:27 PM

Hate Trumputin but love Israel. I understand why they did this. I’m generally pro-squad, but we part ways over their Middle-East political positions. Not a Bibi supporter or hater either. The issues are not so black and white and I know the “pro-Palestinian no matter what” trolls and “Israel is inherently racist” crowd will savage me, but I don’t really care.

by Anonymousreply 16August 15, 2019 4:28 PM

Why do we give a shit what Israel does? They need us a lot more than we need them (we don't). Netanyahu is a Trump loving dope. He's going to have a sad political end soon. I think for the US, Israel is not more than a campaign talking point and a fetish.

by Anonymousreply 17August 15, 2019 4:31 PM

R15, to brag about how evil Israel is and how Islam is full of innocent victims.

by Anonymousreply 18August 15, 2019 4:40 PM

For the people ask why they're going there when they don't support current US Israel policy, it's their job to be informed on matters of international political importance.

A visit might have possibly changed their own opinions in one way or another. For bibi and trump to forbid them entry just amplifies their complaints and will gain them more sympathy among people of common sense who are trying to understand what's happening in our world.

by Anonymousreply 19August 15, 2019 4:45 PM

Buried the lede here... Trump told Bibi not to let them in. They have had the tripped planned for a month. Omar has relatives that live in the West Bank, is that a sufficient reason for her to visit?

Remember when 8 republicunts went to Moscow on July 4th? They were mocked for their weakness by Russian Media.

by Anonymousreply 20August 15, 2019 4:48 PM

WHAT?!

I simply cannot comprehend the politics of Israel beyond the very basics. But this seems kind of outrageous. Israel is an asshole.

by Anonymousreply 21August 15, 2019 4:59 PM

Free trip.

by Anonymousreply 22August 15, 2019 5:03 PM

Sick of all of them, including Israel.

by Anonymousreply 23August 15, 2019 5:03 PM

Somewhere out there Pelosi and Schumer breathe a sigh of relief. Their trip includes meeting PLO and Fatah officers will be a media circus for Fox and food for GOP and Trump.

by Anonymousreply 24August 15, 2019 5:05 PM

donald is just begging to be impeached, isn't he? And what is it that we are being distracted from by this gut-punch to Congress?

Will this week ever end? Will this Acting Presidency ever end?

by Anonymousreply 25August 15, 2019 5:27 PM

Israel has turned into a pre war Germany and Netanyahu? Just another Hitler. A shameful situation.

by Anonymousreply 26August 15, 2019 5:31 PM

Trump can't make Israel do anything they won't want to do in the first place

by Anonymousreply 27August 15, 2019 5:32 PM

Omar and Tlaib's comments go beyond Jew hating. This decision doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

by Anonymousreply 28August 15, 2019 5:38 PM

A democratically elected congresswoman HAD been permitted to visit her family until President Pampers intervened.

The cruelty is the point.

by Anonymousreply 29August 15, 2019 5:40 PM

Zionists are so Trumpian.

by Anonymousreply 30August 15, 2019 5:43 PM

[quote]Omar has relatives that live in the West Bank, is that a sufficient reason for her to visit?

Omar does not have relatives in the West Bank, Tlaib does.

Their itenery literally says “U.S. Congressional Delegation to Palestine” Don’t act like they weren’t trolling too.

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by Anonymousreply 31August 15, 2019 5:52 PM

The pendulum will eventually swing back to the Democrats and Israel will eventually regret aligning with Trump's GOP.

Every state, country and company that collaborates with Trump will eventually regret that choice.

by Anonymousreply 32August 15, 2019 5:52 PM

I’m so over fucking Israel.we are constantly told universal health care is too expensive and unreasonable but it’s nt unreasonable to expect the US taxpayer to pay for Israel’s entire military? Fuck em.

by Anonymousreply 33August 15, 2019 5:54 PM

[quote]This thread will no doubt be a bastion for Jew hating

Especially considering the OP is an alt-right troll.

And R17, we give a shit what Trump does, and Trump is the one who demanded Israel refuse to allow them to visit, after Israel had already agreed to it a month ago.

by Anonymousreply 34August 15, 2019 6:01 PM

Kamala supports this decision.

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by Anonymousreply 35August 15, 2019 6:01 PM

R31. Thanks for the correction. We have no idea who wrote that agenda, and even if legit, it's no reason to deny entry.

by Anonymousreply 36August 15, 2019 6:02 PM

Joe thinks it’s a great decision too.

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by Anonymousreply 37August 15, 2019 6:02 PM

Someone please help us. Canada? Mexico even. Please help us.

by Anonymousreply 38August 15, 2019 6:02 PM

Someone please help us. Canada? Mexico even. Please help us.

by Anonymousreply 39August 15, 2019 6:02 PM

Make no mistake this is BIbis decision. Trump takes orders from him not the other way around.

by Anonymousreply 40August 15, 2019 6:03 PM

Israel is the largest cumulative recipient of U.S. foreign assistance since World War II. To date, the United States has provided Israel $142.3 billion (current, or noninflation-adjusted, dollars). Yet they are barring US Congress members Omar and Tlaib? !

by Anonymousreply 41August 15, 2019 6:10 PM

Yeah, those “racist assholes” who are nonetheless the ONLY country in the ME who recognize and celebrate the rights of us gays and lesbians. Try holding your bf’s hand in Tehran or Riyadh and see what reaction you get.

by Anonymousreply 42August 15, 2019 6:13 PM

I believe they were planning to go visit the West Bank, not Israel proper.

by Anonymousreply 43August 15, 2019 6:16 PM

Yes r1, It's not the people, it's the fucking government-and religious zealots on both sides. The assholism is equal but the power balance, not even close. I loath all religions equally. Israel is proof that ALL religion is detrimental to humanity.

"Hate Israel" is not equal to disagreeing with the governmental policies.

Trump and all his supporters are proven liars, white nationalists and greedy selfish pricks and also, ignorant sluts.

by Anonymousreply 44August 15, 2019 6:25 PM

"I’m so over fucking Israel.we are constantly told universal health care is too expensive and unreasonable but it’s nt unreasonable to expect the US taxpayer to pay for Israel’s entire military? Fuck em."

.Israel is more technically advanced than our dumbfuck country...we may give them money (guess it's OK to give our good buddies the N Koreans and the Saudis, billions) but they give us plenty in return. Oh and they are our only real allied in the Middle east...go see how fast Saudi Arabia lends us their air space in a crisis but Israel will

by Anonymousreply 45August 15, 2019 6:30 PM

Dear God this is all so fucked up.

by Anonymousreply 46August 15, 2019 6:31 PM

I don't think the US should allow ISIS terrorists or those calling for its destruction into the country. Israel shouldn't have to either.

by Anonymousreply 47August 15, 2019 6:35 PM

Ribbit, Ribbet

by Anonymousreply 48August 15, 2019 6:37 PM

Isn't Neti a murderous crook anyway?

by Anonymousreply 49August 15, 2019 6:38 PM

R47, Why no outrage about this 1 traitorous act that would be reason in itself to impeach the motherfucker?

No one called for the "destruction of Israel". This is a troll talking point like Open Border and Voter Fraud.

Democratically elected congressmen NOT equal to ISIS, you dumb cunt.

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by Anonymousreply 50August 15, 2019 6:51 PM

Not to mention this.

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by Anonymousreply 51August 15, 2019 6:53 PM

People are outraged at Trump's veiled rhetoric, but Talibs and Omar's active promotion of BDS and Hamas is nothing to get worked up over?

by Anonymousreply 52August 15, 2019 6:59 PM

R45, Oh fuck off, you racist scumbag. What does Israel do to help The US tax purr attempt to force for Their kids to die on their behalf in more wars?

by Anonymousreply 53August 15, 2019 7:07 PM

Which wars has Israel forced us into r53?

by Anonymousreply 54August 15, 2019 7:35 PM

[quote] Talibs and Omar's active promotion of BDS and Hamas is nothing to get worked up over?

I agree with their active promotion of BDS. Israel should stop occupying. And yeah, I'm a Jew.

by Anonymousreply 55August 15, 2019 8:01 PM

We know that Israel is persecussing the Palestinians...it is disgusting and no reason to go there. No one will help the Palestinians.

by Anonymousreply 57August 15, 2019 8:54 PM

Trump should have stayed out of this, but he didn't. Everything he says about these two is the truth, they are vile antisemites, especially the hijabi wearing bitch. A hijab is as evile and offensive as a klan hood.

BDS islam by any means possible.

by Anonymousreply 58August 15, 2019 9:17 PM

[quote]Their itenery literally says “U.S. Congressional Delegation to Palestine”

Their what now?

[quote]We know that Israel is persecussing the Palestinians.

Those persecussers!

by Anonymousreply 59August 15, 2019 9:29 PM

Itinerary r59. Do you have anything more substantial to add other than prissing over a spelling error?

by Anonymousreply 60August 15, 2019 9:37 PM

NBC:

Democrats blast Israel's 'dangerous' decision to bar Omar, Tlaib from entering the country

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by Anonymousreply 61August 15, 2019 9:39 PM

Nope, r60.

by Anonymousreply 62August 15, 2019 9:43 PM

From the Wall Street Journal:

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Israel decided to block the congresswomen because of their support for a movement to boycott Israel, which has gained support in the U.S. and Europe and led to Israeli legislation allowing its advocates to be banned. Officials said Israel would consider allow Ms. Tlaib, who is a Palestinian-American, to visit relatives in the West Bank if she made a humanitarian request.

“They planned a visit whose sole objective is to strengthen the boycott against us and deny Israel’s legitimacy,” Mr. Netanyahu said, referring to an itinerary he said mentioned only Palestine, not Israel, and skipped meetings with Israeli officials.

by Anonymousreply 63August 15, 2019 9:48 PM

R63 Thanks. Israel's decision has nothing to do with Trump.

by Anonymousreply 64August 15, 2019 10:05 PM

[quote] “The Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions [BDS] movement against Israel is not free speech,” Friedman says. “Rather, it is no less than economic warfare designed to delegitimize and ultimately destroy the Jewish State. Israel properly has enacted laws to bar entry of BDS activists under the circumstances present here, and it has every right to protect its borders against those activists in the same manner as it would bar entrants with more conventional weapons.”

The nerve of Omar and Talib to call this a Muslim ban when these laws already existed in Israel.

by Anonymousreply 65August 15, 2019 10:11 PM

You sound *so* convincing r65!

by Anonymousreply 66August 15, 2019 10:40 PM

What's funny is that icy cow that speaks for Dump called the story that he discussed with some of his people getting them banned Fake News and then the dumbass tweeted it himself right after! LOL

by Anonymousreply 67August 16, 2019 12:02 AM

An American president has a responsibility to condemn any American leaders who actively engage in trying to annihilate another country by any means necessary. That's especially true when the basis for the destruction is anti-Semitism.

by Anonymousreply 68August 16, 2019 12:15 AM

R68 That should be the responsibility of all our leaders. It's disheartening to read that the Democrat responses.

by Anonymousreply 69August 16, 2019 12:16 AM

I'll take the side of Palestinian Americans like Representative Tlaib and Bella Hadid, who actually have knowledge on the issue, and blood affected by it, over ignorant people like Trump and many Americans.

by Anonymousreply 70August 16, 2019 12:30 AM

R70, instead why don't you learn some history, including islam's notorious hatred of Jews, beginning with mohammed himself who ordered and participated in the beheading of 600 Jewish men and the rape and enslavement of the wives and children, all ordered and sanctified by the islamic god, of course.

by Anonymousreply 71August 16, 2019 12:37 AM

I'm glad Trump is calling them out on their shit.

by Anonymousreply 72August 16, 2019 12:40 AM

It's clearly wrong for an American president to order an ally to refuse admission to two members of Congress.

But they were clearly going there to push an anti-Israel agenda and stir up trouble and so in many ways we (Dems) dodged a bullet because Omar would have said something stupid and Trump and the Republicans and three-quarters of the Democrats in Congress would be calling for censure and Pelosi would have to take her out to the woodshed again and all this in the middle of the primaries--- we totally dodged a bullet.

by Anonymousreply 73August 16, 2019 12:41 AM

Israel allowed protesters during Eurovision. We haven't heard much of this before because BDS activists don't travel to Israel. Protesting the Israeli government is not the same as allowing entry to BDS activists. The anti BDS law was in effect in 2017. Israel may agree with Trump on this, but they didn't take orders from him.

by Anonymousreply 74August 16, 2019 12:48 AM

R73, he didn't order the Israelis to do anything.

by Anonymousreply 75August 16, 2019 1:03 AM

r53, you Jew hating nazi, I'll fuck off when you can explain what exactly is racist about my comment

by Anonymousreply 76August 16, 2019 1:52 AM

[quote]I'll take the side of Palestinian Americans like Representative Tlaib and Bella Hadid,

Ah yes, that grand elder stateswoman Bella Fucking Hadid. Look out Madeleine Albright!

by Anonymousreply 77August 16, 2019 2:18 AM

True, R75. "Order" is not the right word, "Strongly suggest" is more accurate.

But my point that my side dodged a bullet on this still stands.

by Anonymousreply 78August 16, 2019 3:13 AM

Entry DENIED: Omar and Talib banned from visiting Israel

by Anonymousreply 79August 16, 2019 3:20 AM

R76, You are defending a racist decision out of your own Jewish supremacy. I stick by my assessment, you are a racist scumbag.

by Anonymousreply 80August 16, 2019 3:47 AM

The First Amendment to the Constitution guarantees freedom of expression by prohibiting Congress from restricting the press or the rights of individuals to speak freely. Trump is violating the Congresswomen's right to free speech by punishing them in a petty and egregious manner by asking a foreign government to deny them entry. Whether you agree with the content of the women's speech or not, trump is wrong. And considering all the lies and heinous statements he's uttered like promoting birtherism, the orange stain belongs in prison.

by Anonymousreply 81August 16, 2019 3:59 AM

Omar and Talib, along with their ilk (Quran devouts) would just assume the beheading, stoning or 8 story tower toss for all gays be articled into the constitution. They are not gay allies, they are more dangerous than Trump! Fuck huuuuuuur ! Both of em!

by Anonymousreply 82August 16, 2019 4:17 AM

I loathe Zionists. I loathe Islam. Frankly, I just loathe religion. Idiots galore.

by Anonymousreply 83August 16, 2019 4:29 AM

[quote]The First Amendment to the Constitution guarantees freedom of expression by prohibiting Congress from restricting the press or the rights of individuals to speak freely. Trump is violating the Congresswomen's right to free speech by punishing them in a petty and egregious manner by asking a foreign government to deny them entry.

Trump used his First Amendment right. As you have indicated, Congress has no right to restrict that. Is there a problem here?

by Anonymousreply 84August 16, 2019 4:48 AM

That assumes Israel is not an autonomous state with their own laws and regulations r81. The very premise of your argument is flawed since it is not Trump that is preventing the visit; it is Israel. According to their own policies, Israel has the right to decline entry to people who support BDS. It has nothing to do with US law.

by Anonymousreply 85August 16, 2019 5:01 AM

Yea [R81] ..I didn't want to bust your chops cause you seemed impassioned. But your argument has a 'couple' of holes.

by Anonymousreply 86August 16, 2019 5:16 AM

Disregard [R86] meant for Ed Smart thread

by Anonymousreply 87August 16, 2019 5:18 AM

Fuck Us? Fuck You!

by Anonymousreply 88August 16, 2019 5:25 AM

R84, yes. The problem is trump is a horrible person and an even more horrible president. He's using his first amendment rights to destroy this country.

by Anonymousreply 89August 16, 2019 5:49 AM

Omar and Talib when/if given the opportunity would destroy it a lot more.

by Anonymousreply 90August 16, 2019 7:11 AM

Trump is worried the Congress women will find out a lot more than media has been reporting.

by Anonymousreply 91August 16, 2019 7:28 AM

More about what ??? Who the hell is inhibiting the media ?? They would probably come back with some fucked up, skewed view regarding some agenda their after that a good baseless narrative could garner support for. Whatever the fuck that is, But if they were never there, they cant come back with a slanted report of what they never experienced.

by Anonymousreply 92August 16, 2019 9:30 AM

Their= they're

by Anonymousreply 93August 16, 2019 9:31 AM

Why have none of you cunts responded to Trump outing a Mossad agent to Russia? Better to blame the dems, Trolls every fucking one of you.

by Anonymousreply 94August 16, 2019 10:08 AM

Trump Last week: " Go back where you came from"

Trump This week: "Don't let them in"

Republicunts: "Whatever he said"

by Anonymousreply 95August 16, 2019 12:50 PM

Washington Post:

After ban, Israel approves humanitarian request from Tlaib to visit grandmother in West Bank

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by Anonymousreply 96August 16, 2019 1:33 PM

NYT:

Israeli Decision on Omar and Tlaib Inflames Politics in Two Countries

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by Anonymousreply 97August 16, 2019 1:34 PM

Neti is Trumpet's buddy and they both wanted to silence any dissent because that is what corrupt leaders do.

by Anonymousreply 98August 16, 2019 1:46 PM

Israelis have far bigger concerns than a couple of Jew-hating cunts. Since neither Netanyahu nor Gantz could horsetrade sufficiently to form a government, Israelis go back to the polls on 17 September for yet another try at electing the 22nd Knesset.

by Anonymousreply 99August 16, 2019 1:48 PM

^Exactly and BTW there are 12 Arab members of Knesset who likely have political views similar to the congresswoman. They aren't terrorists, they are representatives of their community.

by Anonymousreply 100August 16, 2019 2:04 PM

Washington Post update:

Rep. Tlaib says she will not go to Israel after the country initially rejected her request for a visit, then reversed course

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by Anonymousreply 101August 16, 2019 2:10 PM

[quote]there are 12 Arab members of Knesset who likely have political views similar to the congresswoman. They aren't terrorists, they are representatives of their community.

Some of whom are vocal about calling for the destruction of Israel. How many members of Western governments have the privilege of serving in the governments of countries they want to destroy?

by Anonymousreply 102August 16, 2019 2:11 PM

Tlaib the attention whore. She doesn't need Israel's permission to visit her grandmother. She can fly into Amman, take a bus to the border and cross the border as a private citizen. But that's obviously not the method to her Jew-hating madness.

by Anonymousreply 103August 16, 2019 2:14 PM

The Hill: Trump doubles down on criticism of Omar, Tlaib

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by Anonymousreply 104August 16, 2019 2:18 PM

the fact that Tlaib has now gotten permission to visit her grandmother and doesn't want to go shows that was just an excuse

by Anonymousreply 105August 16, 2019 2:58 PM

I think Israel had every right to deny their visits. Being pro BDS alone would be a good reason...

by Anonymousreply 106August 16, 2019 3:26 PM

The coverage on this is interesting. I read the NYT, WSJ, WaPo and NPR website every AM.

Times has made it a major story.

The others? Not at all.

I mean they've all covered it, but the Times has made it their top story and has several news stories, editorials and op-eds on the subject.

And the more this goes forward, the more I am sticking to my original theory that if Israel had let them in, this would have been gold for Trump and so we dodged a bullet big time.

by Anonymousreply 107August 16, 2019 3:33 PM

There sure are a lot of Russians concerned about whether or not two American Congresswomen do or don't get into Isreal...weird.

by Anonymousreply 108August 16, 2019 3:35 PM

R108 Israel is a country that enforces its own laws. US critics are the ones trying to make this a free speech issue or about discrimination. Israel has responded already that it is neither.

by Anonymousreply 109August 16, 2019 4:09 PM

It's also strange how some congressmen are trying to make support of Israel an either/or proclamation. You can be a supporter of both The United States and Israel. To see Democrats who are pro multicultural make this argument that you can't be both is frankly bizarre.

by Anonymousreply 110August 16, 2019 4:12 PM

^^ The argument they are making is that you can't have dual loyalty.

by Anonymousreply 111August 16, 2019 4:13 PM

Israel was overly magnanimous in allowing in a woman like Tlaib who is pledged to Israel's complete destruction. Look what it got them to extend the hand of peace.

by Anonymousreply 112August 16, 2019 4:34 PM

R102, let's start with trump and McConnell and throw in Nunes, most of the Cabinet, Republican Senate, Steven Miller, and countless others in US government today who are serving their own greedy interests and not those of the people.

by Anonymousreply 113August 16, 2019 6:31 PM

Lol at the "Israel is a country that enforces its own laws"

Uh, that law was passed not that long ago by Bibi's right wing mafia and it certainly isn't Democratic. It's done specifically to stifle protests and squelch free speech.

by Anonymousreply 114August 16, 2019 6:40 PM

r114 To advocate for economic destruction of the the only Jewish state in the world is not free speech. Many western countries banned Muslim preachers who defend death penalty for homosexual because those are not free speech either.

by Anonymousreply 115August 16, 2019 7:25 PM

Please go have sex with yourself, r115.

It's a nice bit of wording to say they are "advocating for the destruction of Israel" when in fact they are doing no such thing. The point of the movement is to force Israel to change its illegal policies towards the West Bank and the Palestinians.

It's totally disengenuous to say that they are advocating for the "destruction" of Israel. But you know that.

by Anonymousreply 116August 16, 2019 7:30 PM

Neti is a crook so is Trump so how about we just say Fuck You to both of them, problem solved.

by Anonymousreply 117August 16, 2019 7:38 PM

Zionism is a tar baby!

How's that for free speech!?

by Anonymousreply 118August 16, 2019 8:01 PM

R102, we in the US have at least two already. Give it more time. We will be facing the same islamic crap as Europe.

by Anonymousreply 119August 16, 2019 9:00 PM

Israelis don't take anybody's shit, and rightfully so. They know exactly what they are dealing with when it comes to islam and allow none of it. The world should learn a lesson from them and see islam, the hate-filled islamic texts, and the outrageous behavior of muslim around the world for exactly what it is. Islam is anything but peace.

The leftist propaganda rage, the NY Times is really milking this story.

by Anonymousreply 120August 16, 2019 9:08 PM

When did Talib visit her grandmother last? There was no reason why she couldn't go as a private citizens for the past decades. These muslim cunts were planning to stir up shit. We all know it. Fuck them . Let us starting having an honest conversation about muslim hatred and violence around the world today and for the past 1,400 years.

by Anonymousreply 121August 16, 2019 9:31 PM

R120. Muslims make up more than 20% of the world's population, most of them not even in the Middle East but in Indonesia. They live in almost every country on earth.

Stop with your scare tactics.

by Anonymousreply 122August 16, 2019 9:33 PM

R122 Exactly, they are not our problem. It only becomes a problem when they try to impose Sharia on everyone else.

by Anonymousreply 123August 16, 2019 10:42 PM

I've noticed that "the squad" seems to bring right wingers out with a virulent hatred. It's like flypaper.

by Anonymousreply 124August 16, 2019 10:44 PM

Israel needs to give back all the foreign aid it receives from the US. If our representatives are not allowed to enter there, then they do not need our taxpayer dollars.

by Anonymousreply 125August 16, 2019 10:45 PM

R124 To the contrary. The right attacks them so often because they make it too easy, and their ideas are not mainstream. Even Democrats arguing for free speech always preface their comments on how the squad doesn't represent their ideas or the democratic party.

by Anonymousreply 126August 16, 2019 10:46 PM

R125 Just admit that you're unabashedly an anti semite and that your ideas don't represent the American mainstream.

by Anonymousreply 127August 16, 2019 10:47 PM

What aid, R125?

by Anonymousreply 128August 16, 2019 10:52 PM

Surely someone who acts like this in public is deserving of all our respect.

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by Anonymousreply 129August 16, 2019 10:53 PM

What scare tactics, R122? I've studied islam and islamic history for many years. I know the truth and tell the truth . When it comes to islam, the truth is often scary. Start here, my friend.. Arabs and muslims are NOT indigenous to the Holy Land, North Africa, Persia or any places east of these countries. Afghanistan was once a Buddhist country. Look up the Hindu Holocaust. New research is coming out about the genocide of Greeks and Armenians in Turkey. Of course all the horrific violence in Sub-Sahara Africa against Christians never makes it to the NYTs or the WAPO.

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by Anonymousreply 130August 16, 2019 10:56 PM

Cute

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by Anonymousreply 131August 16, 2019 11:15 PM

We need to deal with FGM, child marriage and islamic terror attacks in the US.

by Anonymousreply 132August 17, 2019 12:00 AM

Sorry, but Omar and Tlaib were elected to Congress by the voters in their districts.

If you don’t like it... too bad. They’re members of Congress.

I don’t like Mitch McConnell, but I have to put up with him, and so do you.

by Anonymousreply 133August 17, 2019 1:10 AM

R133 Being elected to congress doesn't mean they have to be admitted. They are subject to the same laws as any other citizen when traveling to Israel or any other country. The US has denied entry to Israeli members for the same reason, most recently in 2012.

by Anonymousreply 134August 17, 2019 2:31 AM

Netanyahu has been criminally charged with bribery, fraud, and corruption.

He is irrelevant, noncredible, and should be in prison.

by Anonymousreply 135August 17, 2019 3:06 AM

I see the Borises are here. Again.

Members of Congress have a constitutional responsibility for oversight of the use of public funds. Israel is one of the largest recipients of military aid. It is the only recipient of US military aid that is simultaneously authorized to use US military aid for domestic acquisition of weapons systems, which is without any US oversight.

We have no idea, without Congressional oversight, whether Israel is using the more than $10 Billion per year that it receives for legitimate self defense or whether it is being used in violation of US law.

By prohibiting members of Congress, Israel is in violation of the MOU and very probably has triggered clauses that should freeze all funds under the Camp David Accord until its returns to compliance with oversight.

by Anonymousreply 136August 17, 2019 3:13 AM

What’s next Trump not allowing foreigners into the US who disagree with him?The fact that there are people defending this on here is insane. Are you shitheads Republicans by any chance? If not you should be.

by Anonymousreply 137August 17, 2019 3:18 AM

R133 What you ought to be asking as an American is why it would be fitting or acceptable behaviour on behalf of a US Congresswoman to go protest against the government of an allied sovereign nation. Is it serving her constituents? Is it serving her nation? It is wrong on every level. Statesmen and women do not involve themselves with such matters. Clearly seeing her gran wasn't the reason for her visit. It was to stir shit in front of the media. This women is a ticking time bomb. Israel is too smart to let her explode there.

by Anonymousreply 138August 17, 2019 3:27 AM

R137 they're propagandists, I doubt they are even gay. There has been a bunch more of these assholes here since Muriel started allowing instant posting from new registered accounts. They post talking point crap like the above and derail any thread with it.

by Anonymousreply 139August 17, 2019 3:31 AM

You're a big doodie-head!

by Anonymousreply 140August 17, 2019 3:33 AM

No, R140, you're a big doodie-head

by Anonymousreply 141August 17, 2019 3:33 AM

R141-- I'm rubber, you're glue, whatever you say will stick to you!

by Anonymousreply 142August 17, 2019 3:34 AM

Will not!

by Anonymousreply 143August 17, 2019 3:34 AM

Will too!!!

by Anonymousreply 144August 17, 2019 3:34 AM

Girls, girls you’re both giant twatstreudels!

by Anonymousreply 145August 17, 2019 3:41 AM

R137, he sure would like to do that. He's already done that in the form of a Muslim ban and now with trying to limit legal immigration to people who have money.

by Anonymousreply 146August 17, 2019 3:50 AM

WOULD NOT R146!!!

LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE!!!!

by Anonymousreply 147August 17, 2019 3:53 AM

Netanyahu came to our country and lectured our Congress on the danger of a nuclear non-proliferation treaty with Iran. The treaty was something our President at the time had devoted a lot of time and energy to promoting and he is, by the vested powers of the constitution, in charge of foreign affairs and diplomacy. Are those of you saying that Israel was correct in denying these Congresswomen admission into their country in agreement that our correct response to Netanyahu's visit in 2015 should have been for Obama to deny him entrance into the US? Because that is an exact analogy.

Just trying to get clarity on your reasoning.....

by Anonymousreply 148August 17, 2019 4:34 AM

R148 No, it isn't analogous. However it doesn't make that acceptable either. Bibi should not have done that. (among other things)

by Anonymousreply 149August 17, 2019 4:38 AM

The United States also bans specific people from entering. There's nothing unusual about the practice.

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by Anonymousreply 150August 17, 2019 4:55 AM

Netanyahu lecturing Congress was a fucking travesty, We need to have a honest conversation about many things in the US but they will never happen.

by Anonymousreply 151August 17, 2019 5:57 AM

[quote]We need to have a honest conversation about many things in the US but they will never happen.

You mean like the billions the US hands out to homo-murdering regimes?

by Anonymousreply 152August 17, 2019 6:13 AM

R152 It's amazing that people will overlook so many atrocities while they focus all their energy on hating Israel and talking about it as if it's a threat when it's really are only hope in the middle east.

by Anonymousreply 153August 17, 2019 6:45 AM

Why are you assuming that people overlook atrocities? People can think that many Muslim regimes are horrible and despotic and homophobic and at the same time can have the entirely reasonable thought that Israel has behaved very poorly towards the Palestinian people for 70 years. It's not an either/or. It's ok to recognize injustice wherever and however it rears its ugly head. Jews have been at the forefront of justice movements for at least 2 centuries, and many Jews are appalled by Israel's current policies. For example, the following group of prominent British Jews signed a letter condemning Israel's boycott of Gaza:

Zygmunt Bauman Stanley Cohen Miriam David Stephen Fry Eric Hobsbawm Michael Horovitz Nicholas Hytner Brian Klug Steven Lukes Miriam Margolyes Paul Oestreicher Susie Orbach Harold Pinter Michael Rosen Alexei Sayle Lynne Segal Gillian Slovo Janet Suzman Michelene Wandor

by Anonymousreply 154August 17, 2019 7:30 AM

[quote]Why are you assuming that people overlook atrocities?

R154 Another Labour voter, deflecting any mention of any other subject to make it all about Israel. And like all Jew haters, rolling out a list of those Jewish enablers Jew haters love to reaffirm their Jew hatred.

Because you and scum like you don't care about "other attrocities", or the fact that you're defending a vicious homo-hating culture on a gay board. For you, there is ONLY Israel.

by Anonymousreply 155August 17, 2019 7:43 AM

R154 That may be all well and good for many people, especially the aforementioned Brits who signed that petition, but that doesn't mean we need to support Talib and Omar going on an Anti-Israel rampage on Israeli soil or taking to the media whilst there. Anyone loses credibility in my book when an attempt is made to portray them (Palestinians) as perennial innocent victims. THAT has not always been the case. So, enough with the claim they've been mistreated for seventy years. I do sympathise, and I do not support Likud or Bibi, yet the Palestinians brought a lot of their problems on themselves, most did NOT start off on good footing with Jews. I still support Israel. I think they have no place there after rejecting the offer. Their true motives came to light. Let them keep hollering from over here.

by Anonymousreply 156August 17, 2019 8:22 AM

[quote]Israel has behaved very poorly towards the Palestinian people for 70 years.

And the Palestinians have been saints?!?

by Anonymousreply 157August 17, 2019 12:55 PM

It's amazing how some people can't make a coherent argument without immediately going to hyperbole. Wanting Israel to leave the West Bank and have the two state solution becomes "hating Israel". Trying to encourage Israel through boycotts and sanctions to change its hard right stance becomes "trying to destroy Israel". And they've already tried the "antisemitic" trope, although that has been overused to the point it doesn't have as big of an impact as it once had.

by Anonymousreply 158August 17, 2019 1:16 PM

Sorry deplorables but the problem is not with Islam but Zionist and their white supremacist friends.

by Anonymousreply 159August 17, 2019 1:26 PM

What's Talib's deal? In every interview she seems crazy angry. Psychotic. None of the others seem that way to her extent.

by Anonymousreply 160August 17, 2019 1:27 PM

[quote]Anyone loses credibility in my book when an attempt is made to portray them (Palestinians) as perennial innocent victims. THAT has not always been the case

The same can be said about portraying Israelis as perennial innocent victims. Their government stirs up the conflict and brings on most of the drama itself.

by Anonymousreply 161August 17, 2019 1:34 PM

[quote]but the problem is not with Islam

I'm sure the friends and family of the victims of Muslim terror in the US, Europe, Asia and Africa would strongly disagree. I'm sure homosexuals from the Atlantic to the Arafura Sea would shudder at your woefully ignorant assertion.

R158 hates it not only when anyone points out exactly what he is, but demands his right to keep on being a Jew-hating cunt.

by Anonymousreply 162August 17, 2019 1:50 PM

R162 thank you for proving my point. Now I'm a "Jew hater" because I disagree with you.

by Anonymousreply 163August 17, 2019 1:56 PM

No asshole R159. The problem is the perpetual violent insanity that is islam. Learn some history you dumb cunt.

by Anonymousreply 164August 17, 2019 3:34 PM

Reuters:

"May God ruin Trump", Tlaib's grandmother says

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by Anonymousreply 165August 17, 2019 6:45 PM

In an Op-Ed piece in today's NY Times, Thomas Friedman makes excellent points about Trump and "Bibi", but he also has some very cogent comments about Rep. Omar, regardless of how you feel about BDS:

" I strongly oppose the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement — which Representatives Omar and Tlaib have embraced — because it wants to erase the possibility of a two-state solution. And I am particularly unhappy with Representative Omar.

I know a lot about her home district in Minnesota, because I grew up in it, in St. Louis Park. Omar represents the biggest concentration of Jews and Muslims living together in one district in the Upper Midwest. She was perfectly placed to be a bridge builder between Muslims and Jews. Instead, sadly, she has been a bridge destroyer between the two since she came to Washington. But anytime she is legitimately criticized, Democrats automatically scream “Islamophobia’’ and defend her. That’s as disturbing as Trump.

I know that more than a few Somali immigrants in Minneapolis, who face so many challenges — from gang violence to unemployment — are asking why is Omar spending time on the West Bank of the Jordan and not on the West Bank of the Mississippi?"

The answer to his last question is: because going to Mississippi won't get her headlines. I have to wonder if her constituency will get tired of her fast resulting in a primary challenge. I also wonder how sh is currently viewed by her district.

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by Anonymousreply 166August 17, 2019 8:00 PM

Thomas Friedman is a Republican Concern Troll and is Very Concerned!

by Anonymousreply 167August 17, 2019 11:30 PM

Friedman is a naive fool. "A bridge between muslims and Jews"? It will never happen and can never happen, the islamic god forbids peace, tolerance and acceptance of the other.

by Anonymousreply 168August 18, 2019 1:57 PM

Friedman is far from naive, Bibi's bitch at R168.

by Anonymousreply 169August 18, 2019 3:28 PM

Until islam reforms and finally purges all incitements to kill, torture and ensalve all non-muslims in the foundational islamic texts, all conversation is futile. Fuck them!

by Anonymousreply 170August 18, 2019 4:53 PM

So this is supposed to be The Outrage Of The Day, apparently. I’m supposed to feel outraged for this Tlaib creature? Sorry but no. She and her ugly face and her little pal Omar can fuck right off.

by Anonymousreply 171August 18, 2019 5:12 PM

This thread is further proof that there is little difference between supporters of corporate democrats like Clinton and Biden and republicans like Trump and his supporters. The party name is different but the racism is still the same.

Sigh. I can’t wait until progressives are in charge.

by Anonymousreply 172August 18, 2019 5:22 PM

R172 It has nothing at all to do with racism, though I believe Trump is a racist. It has to do with appropriate behaviour as US congresswomen. This is not the correct way to go about sharing their opposition to illegal settlements, or occupied territories. There are protocols, and rigid roles for statesmen and women. These women need a primer. Disingenuous motive on behalf of Talib, and the brotherfucker Omar had no excuse trying to tag along. I wish those trying to compare this to Netanyahu trying to undermine Obama knew their history better, and how to construct a proper analogy. Netanyahu was invited by John Boehner to address Congress. (albeit in an underhanded manner) He had already planned his trip well in advance. He never advocated a Boycott, Divestiture, and Sanctions policy against the US., and these two were not invited by the State of Israel to give their political ideology. They are also not an invited Head of State or PM, they are congresswomen, and shifty anti-Jewish ones at that.

by Anonymousreply 173August 18, 2019 8:21 PM

But I thought Israel was supposed to be a thriving democracy with free speech and all...

by Anonymousreply 174August 18, 2019 8:37 PM

Why is Israel afraid of calls for boycott or someone pointing out how they are treating Palestinians?

Because it knows it’s doing something fishy

by Anonymousreply 175August 18, 2019 8:39 PM

[Quote] Netanyahu was invited by John Boehner to address Congress. (albeit in an underhanded manner) He had already planned his trip well in advance. He never advocated a Boycott, Divestiture, and Sanctions policy against the US.

Did you completely miss Netanyahu’s speech in Congress when he stood on American soil telling Congress to ignore the sitting president’s Middle East policies?????

Fuck Bibi. He belongs in jail

by Anonymousreply 176August 18, 2019 8:41 PM

[Quote] "A bridge between muslims and Jews"?

What kind of bridge should she be? From Somalia to Israel?

Most of the American Jews also think Israel is becoming a repressive country

by Anonymousreply 177August 18, 2019 8:43 PM

[Quote] I strongly oppose the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement — which Representatives Omar and Tlaib have embraced — because it wants to erase the possibility of a two-state solution.

Netanyahu has already erased the possibility of a two-state solution

by Anonymousreply 178August 18, 2019 8:44 PM

[Quote] What you ought to be asking as an American is why it would be fitting or acceptable behaviour on behalf of a US Congresswoman to go protest against the government of an allied sovereign nation. Is it serving her constituents? Is it serving her nation? It is wrong on every level.

Just a reminder that that’s exactly what Netanyahu did when he spoke to the US Congress.

I’m fact she is serving her constituents because many of them are Arabs just like re Palestinians.

If you’re so worried about how congressmen and women serve their constituents, why don’t you wonder that about every new congressman—they ALL get all expense paid trips to Israel when they first start.

How does that help their constituents???

by Anonymousreply 179August 18, 2019 8:47 PM

[Quote] And the Palestinians have been saints

Palestinians are doing exactly what it would be if an outside power came and drove you from your home.

Palestinians don’t have armies so they are called terrorists. Israel has an army so it’s just called having a war

by Anonymousreply 180August 18, 2019 8:49 PM

israel can’t just occupy Palestinian lands, not give them the right to vote, block lots of provisions from entering, make the completely dependent on Israel— and pretend Israel is a liberal democracy where everything is just peachy

by Anonymousreply 181August 18, 2019 8:52 PM

R176 I've already stated twice I neither support Likud, nor Bibi. Two wrongs never make a right either. We are in agreement that eas shameful and wrong. It still doesn't make for a legitimate analogy BTW.

Shalom

by Anonymousreply 182August 18, 2019 8:55 PM

Repeatedly, since the early 1990s, Congress’s investigative arm, GAO, has found Israel does not comply with the provisions of the funding agreements for oversight, including how its procures technology uses and accounts for US funds and its acquisition of foreign technology.

Predominantly the funding provided is for domestic weapons and defensive system development. But routinely GAO has found Israel skirts or outright violates US law and procures foreign technology using US funds.

The program should be completely frozen until Israel is in full compliance and any technology that is of interest to the US is brought back under mutual development terms of agreement.

by Anonymousreply 183August 18, 2019 9:02 PM

R183, nothing will be frozen for Israel as long as people like Sheldon Adelson keeps given $25 million to the GOP

by Anonymousreply 184August 18, 2019 9:09 PM

By denying these US Congresswomen entry into Israel, Netanyahu proved himself to be Trump’s bitch and Israel became a full fledged right wing state

by Anonymousreply 185August 18, 2019 9:29 PM

Here's what is probably really happening. (In regard to military funding, etc). Israel has a very effective spy agency, and numerous people well-trained in middle-eastern languages - not only Arabic, but Persian, Turkish, Farsi, and others. Israeli agents, (Mossad) who look middle-eastern, (because they are), are better able to infiltrate and spy on their neighboring nations than corn fed boys from Nebraska in the US. We are essentially "paying" Israeli agents to be our eyes and ears in that part of the world. However, that can never be admitted, so we have this dance where we talk about a bastion of democracy in the middle east, etc.

I'd be happier if this relationship were more in the open, because then at least we'd all see it for what it is. There is nothing magical about Israel. Its population is well-educated and highly intelligent (there's much to be said for selective breeding, and when you have a culture of families who for millenia have encouraged their daughters to marry the smartest guy, not the hunkiest or strongest at hefting an ax, you end up with a lot of smart people). However, it's a bunch of bullshit to pretend that the Jews didn't have a deliberate policy in the 1940s of confiscating Palestinian properties and driving them out of lands that the Jews wanted, and used the collective European guilt about the Holocaust to prevent people in Europe and the US from objecting too loudly. I understand the historical reasons for desiring an all-Jewish state, but this was immoral on the face of it. The ill-conceived Arab attacks on Israel in the late 40s into the mid 60s only made the situation of the Palestinians even worse. Granted, the Palestinians have shot themselves in the foot hundreds of times, by siding with duplicitous rulers in neighboring countries and by attacking Israel numerous times in such ways as to guarantee a hardening of the minds of the citizens of that country against them. However, alternative modes of action also have had no guarantee of positive results for them.

Ever since Netanyahu has allowed unchecked settlement of the West Bank by Israelis, the message is clear. Israelis who support Netanyahu consider all of the land from the Mediterranean to the banks of the Jordan river to be the land of Israel, and the nearly 3 million Palestinians who live there be damned. How can their be a two-state solution, if there is no "state" to the second state?

Imagine if the US (in 2019) declared all of its treaties with the Indian tribes null and void and opened up all reservation lands to white settlers, without any possibility of court injunctions or legal recourse, and ignoring all international objections. (I realize the US DID do this in the late 19th and early 20th century, but we've long since backed off of that way of treating the Indians). That is what Israel has been doing the past several decades and that is the reason that many people (many Jews included) think its current policies are immoral.

by Anonymousreply 186August 18, 2019 9:33 PM

The Palestinians need to be given their own state. This was their land before Israel was “created” after WWII.

by Anonymousreply 187August 18, 2019 10:22 PM

It was our land before the Hebrews stole it from us!

by Anonymousreply 188August 19, 2019 12:36 AM

R186. I wouldn’t dispute many of your excellent points . They have been covered in the media for years, yet - and here is what is explicitly troubling . We don’t have a defense treaty with Israel, nor is Israel a party to any of our intelligence sharing agreements like Five Eyes.

We are carving out the same kind of exceptions to legal norms as we did with the Phillipines under Marcos, Vietnam under Diem. We’re abandoning all moral authority as a nation. This had repercussions in the form of world-wide anti-american/marxist terrorist groups throughout Europe, Asia, Mexico and South America through the 1970s, the development of cartels in the 1970s and 1980s due to our recklessness.

Look at what we did in Iran in 1953 with our support of a coup overthrowing Mossadegh. That miscalculation has haunted us for decades. Look at the state of our miscalculations with Qatar, Saudi Arabia, the current situations with Turkey, let alone Russia and China. While Russia is bankrupt, China is rolling up countries into its orbit while the incompetent White House is seriously exploring whether it can “buy” Greenland.

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. We have to get the cowboys and “business people” out of foreign affairs. They’re destroying the future of our country.

by Anonymousreply 189August 19, 2019 12:48 AM

Run Murrica like a business! Yee haw!

by Anonymousreply 190August 19, 2019 12:52 AM

[quote]This was their land before Israel was “created” after WWII.

Exactly for how long was it “their” land r187?

by Anonymousreply 191August 19, 2019 3:47 AM

I'm not r187, but I think what you're getting at is that there was no "country" named Palestine prior to Israel, with a citizenry called Palestinians. There was a division of the Ottoman Empire called Palestine, and after WW!, a British protectorate called Palestine, after Britain captured Jerusalem from the Ottomans. The people who lived there didn't have a particular national affiliation - they had tribal affiliations. Many were Arab, some were Druze. Some were Christian, but a majority were Muslim. Whatever they were called, and whatever the land that they lived on was called, many had ownership of plots of land. They owned houses, farms, and fields, shops, crafts, and small businesses. In many cases, they had deeds for their land, in some cases going back centuries. So however you want to think of them. to be forced off of your land and out of your house and businesses had to have been a bitter pill, as it would be for any of us. The British arbitrarily called for a partition of the land. They didn't ask the people living there what they would prefer. Needless to say, the Jews were all for it, and the people living there were entirely against it. In fact, after the Arabs attacked in 1947 and were repulsed, Israel took much more land than was originally partitioned for it. In the 6 days war in the 60s, they took even more - the West Bank and Gaza.

It's super complicated. An entire ethnic group and religious group was nearly exterminated from the planet, and because of that, a fear grew up that that could happen again, unless the members of that group could live in a country where they would always be in the majority. They are not the only group that has faced such a problem. The Armenians were nearly exterminated by the Turks, and the Kurds have never had a homeland of their own, but are divided between 4 countries - Iran, Iraq, Turkey, and Syria. But the Jews were more widely disseminated across the planet, and the single=mindedness of Hitler in trying to exterminate them all was unique. It's almost impossible to acquire a piece of land large enough to become a nation without displacing people.

Had the whole process proceeded much more slowly, it's possible that with time, most people who lived in Palestine would have agreed to sell their land. Zionists had been buying land in Israel for 75 years before the end of WWII and that process could have continued. But world circumstances changed and suddenly a homeland that could take a million or more refugees was needed immediately. If the entire world had cooperated in this, and provided money and assistance to resettle the displaced Palestinians comfortably and set them up with homes, schools, and businesses, maybe we'd have had a different outcome than what actually happened.

But nearly at the same time as this partition in Palestine was happening, millions of people were shuttling back and forth in Europe because borders were reset there after WWII, India was partitioned into Pakistan (east and west) and India, and the cold war became a very pressing thing. What happened in Israel was not done nicely or well, and we still live with the consequences.

by Anonymousreply 192August 19, 2019 4:32 AM

The Palestinians could have had their own country in 1948. They could have sat down to finalize negotiations any time after the Oslo Accords. They could have taken the generous offer Olmert made; Abbas couldn't be bothered to respond to the offer. They, or at least their leaders, don't want a Palestinian state side by side with Israel. They want Israel destroyed.

by Anonymousreply 193August 19, 2019 2:48 PM

[quote]Had the whole process proceeded much more slowly, it's possible that with time, most people who lived in Palestine would have agreed to sell their land.

It has been a death sentence since the 1920s to sell land to Jews.

[quote] If the entire world had cooperated in this, and provided money and assistance to resettle the displaced Palestinians

No one wanted them "resettled", because it would have meant accepting Jewish authority over Muslim land. Instead they have been well-taken care of by 4 UN agencies set up specifically for them and billions of dollars in international donor donations (which go straight into Swiss bank accounts).

But then it's not about "occupation" or "land" or "statehood" or "self-determination". It's about what it has been about for the past 2,000 years: JEWS.

Learn something:

In the 2nd century CE, the last attempt of the Jews to achieve independence from the Roman Empire ended with the well-known event of Masada, that is historically documented and universally recognized as the fact that determined the Jewish Diaspora in a definitive way. The Land where these things happened was until then the province known as Judæa, and there is no mention of any place called "Palestine" before that time. The Roman emperor Hadrian was utterly upset with the Jewish Nation and wanted to erase the name of Israel and Judah from the face of the Earth, so that there would be no memory of the country that belonged to that rebel people. He decided to replace the denomination of that Roman province and resorted to ancient history in order to find a name that might appear appropriate, and found that an extinct people that was unknown in Roman times, called "Philistines", was once dwelling in that area and were enemies of the Israelites. Therefore, according to Latin spelling, he invented the new name: "Palæstina", a name that would be also hateful for the Jews as it reminded them their old foes. He did so with the explicit purpose of effacing any trace of Jewish history. Ancient Romans, as well as modern Palestinians, have fulfilled the Hebrew Scriptures Prophecy that declares: "They lay crafty plans against Your People... they say: ‘come, let us wipe them out as a nation; let the name of Israel be remembered no more'." - Tehilim 83:3-4 (Psalm 83:3-4).

They failed, as Israel is alive and thrives.

by Anonymousreply 194August 19, 2019 3:01 PM

[quote]But then it's not about "occupation" or "land" or "statehood" or "self-determination". It's about what it has been about for the past 2,000 years: JEWS.

Utter crap to claim "anti-Semitism" when it was European Jews who went to Palestine for the specific purpose of conquering the villages of the Arabs there (now called "Palestinians" because of this assault on their land). They went there specifically to do this ghastly thing, they did it, and they caused incredible disruption to the lives of hundreds of thousands of people. Are they resented for that? OF FUCKING COURSE THEY ARE.

But of course that's just "anti-Semitism."

by Anonymousreply 195August 19, 2019 3:07 PM

Interesting post r192, but you neglect to mention one of the other issues with Palestinians: the other Arabs don’t want them either.

Just ask Jordan. And Egypt.

by Anonymousreply 196August 19, 2019 3:10 PM

[quote]Utter crap to claim "anti-Semitism" when it was European Jews who went to Palestine for the specific purpose of conquering the villages of the Arabs there

But it is Jew hatred. And you've illustrated it yet again with your bigoted, highly blinkered ignorance. Starting with that Jews have always lived in the region. Much as Muslims have tried to drive them out. They succeeded driving out most Xtians. They're having a harder time with Jews.

by Anonymousreply 197August 19, 2019 3:13 PM

In 1990, at the beginning of the First Gulf War, Yasser Arafat, PLO chieftain, publicly supported his good friend and brother-in-arms Saddam Hussein. Sheikh al Sabbah of Kuwait, who's country had been invaded by that dog Hussein was livid, furious, especially since he had supported the Palestinian cause, allowed Palestinians to live in his kingdom for generations. But enough was enough! Al Sabbah expelled all 250,000 Palestinians resident in Kuwait, one of whom is the current Queen of Jordan, Rania.

There was no outcry, and certainly no condemnation from any quarter. Wonder why?

by Anonymousreply 198August 19, 2019 3:20 PM

It’s one of the most stupid of all arguments.

The same poorly constructed logic applies to Germany, which itself was *never* historically a unified country until the 1870s. Throughout its history, the closest it came was the distinction from Gaul by the romans as “Germania” . But the territory was parceled into dozens of principalities, duchies, and reaches all of which were autonomous.

The pretense of a “single country” called Germany came more of less into existence with Bismarck but only was absorbed into a Greater German in 1871 when France declared war on Prussia, which created the Greater German Reich.

Seriously. I wonder what is wrong with some you for maintaining an illusion that fractured countries that exist for thousands of years, like Germany, are automatically entitled to statehood while others, like Israel which have existed as unified nations are not.

The answer is obvious and disgraceful. Now go shut the fuck up.

by Anonymousreply 199August 19, 2019 3:22 PM

[quote]israel can’t just occupy Palestinian lands, not give them the right to vote, block lots of provisions from entering, make the completely dependent on Israel— and pretend Israel is a liberal democracy where everything is just peachy

Did you miss the point that there are currently 12 Arabs in Israel's Knesset? How many Israelis get a voice in the Palestinian government?

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by Anonymousreply 200August 19, 2019 3:31 PM

R200 if Israelis and Palestinians were close to equal in power then that would be a reasonable observation. But they aren't, at all. Why would be Palestinians want to give Israel even more power over them by giving them voting rights?

by Anonymousreply 201August 19, 2019 3:50 PM

R201 Not Israel. ISRAELIS. Jews having a say in Muslim West Bank and Gaza, like Muslims and Xtians have a say in Israel. And we ALL know that is NEVER going to happen because the concept of democracy and allowing an Infidel, especially a Jew, a voice are anathemas in Muslim societies.

by Anonymousreply 202August 19, 2019 3:57 PM

R202 my point about the power imbalance stands.

by Anonymousreply 203August 19, 2019 4:13 PM

R202, Abbas doesn't want Israelis in the future Palestinian state.

And I never see complaints here about how the Jordanian Army ethnically cleansed Jews from the West Bank back in 1948. The Balata camp in the West Bank is built, in part, on Jewish-owned land.

And why are any Palestinians anywhere living in camps? It isn't the Israelis keeping them in camps; it's Arabs.

by Anonymousreply 204August 19, 2019 4:35 PM

I'm curious who exactly the Israelis are supposed to make peace with?

Hamas in Gaza? They want to throw "the Jews" into the sea, followed closely by the the West Bank Muslims of Fatah

Fatah in the West Bank? They are an unstable government that holds on to power in the PA mostly via force and could easily be supplanted by Hamas or Islamic Jihad.

Which is not to say that Israel's record is spotless or that Bibi isn't an opportunistic ass but the situation is far more complicated than "make peace with the Palestinians"

Because for that to happen you need to have Palestinians who can actually sign a peace treaty.

In reality the best solution is for the West Bank to revert to Jordan and Gaza to Egypt, but neither country wants that,so it's unlikely to happen

And as for R195, who sounds like a Corbynite Brit, the majority of Israeli Jews are of Middle Eastern or North African descent, not European. In the 1950s, following the establishment of the State of Israel, almost one million Jews were forced out of Arab countries, often on just a few days notice and only allowed to take what they could carry with them.

Unlike the Arabs, who kept the Palestinians in refugee camps, the Israelis took in the million refugees and attempted, with various degrees of success,to assimilate them and create a national culture. Today, they mostly form the core of Israel's "deplorables" and are Netanyahu's base.

by Anonymousreply 205August 19, 2019 4:49 PM

You also never see anything how Waqf has been systematically destroying all Jewish artifacts found below Harem esh-Sharif in Jerusalem, which is has been doing for decades. They haul everything out, distribute it into landfills and dumps around Jerusalem. They’ve been repeatedly caught, but the Waqf is “independent”.

It should be completely dismantled and run out of Israel entirely.

by Anonymousreply 206August 19, 2019 4:49 PM

This is a fascinating discussion. I'm reading a novel called "Pachinko" by Min Jin Lee which chronicles the experience of Koreans under Japanese occupation and after, during the years from 1910 - 1989. I've gotten as far as 1944 when one of the characters, a Korean minister is released from a Japanese prison because he was near death.

Something a character said struck me and made me think of this thread and the human condition in general. The book starts in Korea in 1910 and follows the characters into Japan where Koreans were treated as second class citizens by the Japanese, confined to ghettos and underpaid. The sick father said to his young son, upon his release from jail, "You are very brave my son. Much, much braver than me. Living every day in the presence of those who refuse to acknowledge your humanity takes great courage."

Any parent from almost any nation could have said this to their child. It's one of the horrors of human civilization, the ugly reality that people are denied their humanity because others seek to control, remove, or oppress them. I have great sympathy for the Israelis and what Jews suffered during WWII and in other instance in history. I also have compassion for the Palestinians. What I don't expect to see in my lifetime is humans having compassion for others they deem expendable or simply in the way of profit. America has been putting dollars for the wealthy above what's best for too long and is worse now than ever with the scum trump administration.

by Anonymousreply 207August 19, 2019 5:47 PM

r194 There is no point in "learning" from you, because much of what you claim as history is demonstrably false. The Jews treat the Bible as history, but such oral histories have to be verified by archaeological research and contemporaneous historical records from other cultures in the region. What is currently called Israel was occupied by many tribes from 5000 BC at least until the 1930s. There were Canaanites, Midians, Phillistines, Samaritans, and many many others. The Jews may have temporarily gained military control of a larger part of that geographical period perhaps for 50 or 100 years, (that's what the Bible says) but there is actually no archaeological record of Jewish control over northern Israel. The immediate environs of Jerusalem, say within a 50-75 mile radius is the only part of Israel that can be firmly tied to many centuries of Jewish control before 90 AD and verified by artifacts. That is your historical Judaea, and that would be about 10% of the current state of Israel. When the British partitioned Palestine, they didn't partition it into historical Judea for the Jews and apportion the rest to the Palestinians. Instead, they gave the Jews the most well-watered area of Israel, (the northern part) and the part with the most agricultural potential and some of the least hospitable part to the Palestinians (the West Bank). Israel also received the Negev, but that's flat out desert and almost no one wants to live there, so even though it makes up half of the country, only 8% of the people live there. But the Jews have NO historical claim on northern Israel. They have the imposition of a line drawn by the British there. And that is fine - but again, the implementation was done very poorly and has resulted in a half century of very bitter resentment.

Others here talk about the obligation of Jordan and Egypt to take Palestinians in . They could have done so on humanitarian grounds, and probably would have prevented future problems for themselves as well as Israel had they done so, but they had no obligation to take them in. Neither country is wealthy. North Dakota would not be enthusiastic about taking in 2 million refugees from Canada in one day. One person likened the fact that Israel took in 1 million Jewish refugees from Arab countries in 1950. But Israel was CREATED to take in Jewish refugees. It's not humanitarian to take in the people you said you were duty-bound to accept as citizens. HELLO

Some posters have said that the Palestinians are well-taken care of financially. But the Israelis block all ships from coming to Gaza and the West Bank has no ports or railways. How exactly are the Palestinians supposed to become self-supporting? They are alive, they eat, they have some form of housing. But there are road blocks even going from village to village and numerous checkpoints making any kind of business virtually impossible to run or maintain. One could also argue that the Israelis are "well-taken care of" by virtue of the massive amount of aid that comes to Israel through the US government and by American citizens who donate generously to Israel.

Look, I'm not saying there shouldn't be an Israel, of that Jews don't deserve some sort of homeland. I'm just saying that the Palestinians have some legitimate beefs and that Israel has not always acted ethically towards them, and the more that some posters here pretend that no fault for this accrues to Israel, the more unreasonable they appear. And yes, the governments of the Gaza and the West Bank are corrupt and self-serving, and divert resources from the people who need it. I'm not denying that. But you can't blame a people for their leaders, otherwise all Americans would need to be shot because of having a leader like Trump.

by Anonymousreply 208August 19, 2019 8:28 PM

[quote]But it is Jew hatred.

Well duh. Jews come to a place, drive out the inhabitants, steal the land, create massive numbers of refugees, who they continue to steal from and shit on for decades. When they are hated for this, "ANTI-SEMITISM!!!"

[quote]And you've illustrated it yet again with your bigoted, highly blinkered ignorance.

You're a racist and a fascist who thinks anything his people does is right, and his people are entitled to kill, steal from, and oppress others just because they are the Jews. So your projection is most amusing.

[quote]Starting with that Jews have always lived in the region. Much as Muslims have tried to drive them out.

Less than 5% of the population was Jewish when the Zionists decided to go and begin a creeping annexation. The Jews who lived there were not in conflict with the Muslims. They got along very well. The Jews of Palestine actually disliked these European interlopers and strongly objected to them. The chief rabbi of Jerusalem was assassinated by Zionists for strongly objecting to the Zionist presence. So, stop lying. But of course, you won't.

Don't forget, all, that Israel has admitted to hiring shills to spread misinformation on the web about Israel when the country is criticized, and the country has many fascist supporters who just do it freelance to further the country's racism and imperialism in the region.

by Anonymousreply 209August 19, 2019 9:22 PM

R208 very good points!

by Anonymousreply 210August 19, 2019 9:42 PM

Now we know who the shills for the “Protocols of the Elders of Zion” are.

by Anonymousreply 211August 20, 2019 2:51 AM

Of course Bootsy is a rabid, bigoted piece of shit when it comes to the Jews. He’s that way with other groups so it makes sense he’s be in here shitting up the thread. Are we sure he’s not just an Erna sock?

by Anonymousreply 212August 20, 2019 1:07 PM

Now, if someone could just deny them oxygen...

by Anonymousreply 213August 20, 2019 3:09 PM

[quote]There is no point in "learning" from you, because much of what you claim as history is demonstrably false.

Which part was false? The revolt? The Romans renaming Judea Palestina to punish those uppity Jews?

[quote]But the Jews have NO historical claim on northern Israel.

Jews lived in the North after the destruction of Jerusalem and the Roman exile. Including a Jew called Jesus.

[quote]When the British partitioned Palestine, they didn't partition it into historical Judea for the Jews and apportion the rest to the Palestinians

Mandated Palestine included what is today Jordan. Which the Brits gave as a present to King Abdullah for helping them drive the Turks out of the region. What was left was partitioned. Which the Arabs rejected.

[quote]But Israel was CREATED to take in Jewish refugees.

Rubbish! That's like saying Pakistan was CREATED to take in refugees.

[quote]But the Israelis block all ships from coming to Gaza and the West Bank has no ports or railways. How exactly are the Palestinians supposed to become self-supporting?

Egypt shares a border with Gaza, which curiously never factors in to the Israel is the cause of Gazan misfortune. Those VERY self-sufficient Gazans don't have any trouble digging tunnels (run by clans loyal to Hamas) to smuggle in everything from cars to mobile phones to Iran-supplied missiles. Egypt takes a "tariff" on the smuggled goods. When Hamas gets greedy, Egypt destroys the tunnels. Which are redug within a week. Then the game begins again.

[quote]They are alive, they eat, they have some form of housing.

Four UN agencies take care of food, education and health. Some form of housing? You mean the lovely villas in Ramallah, Jericho, Bethlehem, Gaza City, Khan Yunis that even Americans would envy. All paid for by those generous American ($880 million), the UN and international donors. Talk about the most pampered "refugees" on Earth.

[quote]But there are road blocks even going from village to village and numerous checkpoints making any kind of business virtually impossible to run or maintain.

And yet there are numerous businesses running all over the West Bank producing everything from olive oil to spices to tinned fruits and vegetables to pastries to tourism. Which are allowed to function, as long as the PA gets their cut.

[quote]the governments of the Gaza and the West Bank are corrupt and self-serving, and divert resources from the people who need it. I'm not denying that. But you can't blame a people for their leaders,

93% of Gazans voted for Hamas, because they were tired of being exploited by the PA. So yes, you CAN blame people for their leaders.

[quote]The Jews who lived there were not in conflict with the Muslims

No, but Muslims were very much in conflict with Jews (and Xtians). Death sentences for selling land to Jews, Arab massacres of Jews, that occurred not only in Palestine but also in Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Tunisia, Morocco, Yemen, Algeria, Iran, Egypt, etc.

Palestinians have never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity because they aren't interested in "statehood" or "self-determination". Their sole purpose since "Palestinians" were created as a political entity in 1967 is to rid area of Jews (and Xtians).

Pretending otherwise is ludicrous.

by Anonymousreply 214August 20, 2019 5:24 PM

The Holy Land, Persia, and North Africa where not arab nor muslim countries until the brutal islamic wars of conquest and horrific treatment of the native Christians, Jews, Zorastrians and other sects. It is about time have an honest discussion about the "religion of peace" and the horrors its islamic texts order against nonmuslims. Enough the islamic bullshit.

by Anonymousreply 215August 20, 2019 9:14 PM

I'm just curious but why does the history have to start with "The Holy Land"? It was many things before it was that.

by Anonymousreply 216August 20, 2019 9:16 PM

[quote]Of course Bootsy is a rabid, bigoted piece of shit when it comes to the Jews. He’s that way with other groups so it makes sense he’s be in here shitting up the thread.

More Judeo-Nazi projection. Oh, and just like clockwork:

[quote]Now we know who the shills for the “Protocols of the Elders of Zion” are.

Anyone who criticizes Israel is an anti-Semite, you see. Oh, unless they are themselves Jewish -- then they are a "self-hating Jew." Definitions are fun, aren't they though, when they let us paper around our own wrongdoing, or allow us to magically conjure wrongdoing on the part of people who disagree with us?

by Anonymousreply 217August 20, 2019 9:25 PM

By the way, Matt, you really do need to take your meds.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 218August 20, 2019 9:27 PM

This is very funny, and the truth......

Rep. Tlaib wrote a letter to Israeli officials desperately wanting to visit her grandmother. Permission was quickly granted, whereupon Tlaib obnoxiously turned the approval down, a complete setup. The only real winner here is Tlaib’s grandmother. She doesn’t have to see her now!

by Anonymousreply 219August 20, 2019 9:40 PM

[quote]I'm curious who exactly the Israelis are supposed to make peace with?

[quote]Hamas in Gaza? They want to throw "the Jews" into the sea, followed closely by the the West Bank Muslims of Fatah

[quote]blah blah

This is exactly what Israel wants. It created the resistance, then points to the very resistance it created and claims TERRORISM!!! And the above is the ensuing sophistry. Isarel fears and detests peacemakers more than anything. That's why they were fine with the PLO while that org was engaging in armed action, but when Arafat basically tabled armed action and began to seek a diplomatic and political solution, THAT Israel could not accept, and they invaded Lebanon to eject the PLO.

But hey, if the Israeli shill above is correct, why doesn't Israel just make any offer of a real, just peace? Because the Israeli shill says the rabid dog Ay-rabs won't accept it anyway, so what's the harm, and then Israel will have proven that it has the high ground and is the wronged party. Amirite? But weirdly, whenever they went through the kabuki of peace negotiations (aka, "keep them talking as I steal more of their land"), they always threw a turd in the punchbowl so that the Arabs would walk away from the talks. Now why EVER do they do that?

[quote]And as for [R195], who sounds like a Corbynite Brit,

As accurate as ever! I'm a New Yorker, born and raised.

[quote]the majority of Israeli Jews are of Middle Eastern or North African descent, not European.

So what? As I said, the Jews who descended on Palestine, began a creeping annexation, and then seized the land by force of arms were from Europe, not from the Middle East. Do keep up.

by Anonymousreply 220August 20, 2019 9:41 PM

R219: DJT

by Anonymousreply 221August 20, 2019 9:42 PM
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