Do you agree with this gentleman’s assessment that melody has died?
yup, his analysis is sound
by Anonymous | reply 1 | August 8, 2019 2:11 PM |
Thanks for sharing OP! Interesting discussion in the comments section.
by Anonymous | reply 2 | August 8, 2019 2:39 PM |
Haven't watched it but I've been saying the same thing since the 90s.
by Anonymous | reply 3 | August 8, 2019 3:49 PM |
Agreed it has been the death of melody for a while now. Now it's all about "sound", that is timbre, and effects.
by Anonymous | reply 4 | August 8, 2019 3:51 PM |
Sorry, I meant TONE COLOUR.
by Anonymous | reply 5 | August 8, 2019 3:53 PM |
I only enjoy melodic music (of any kind), so I've had trouble with the mainstream "shit" of the past 15 years. I can't really follow. It's not really music. Music without melody is not music to me. It's sound effects - valuable on their own, but not music. I do appreciate the innovations in sound effect, though.
by Anonymous | reply 6 | August 8, 2019 3:57 PM |
Melodies are hard to compose and require talent. A good melodic hook is not easy.
by Anonymous | reply 7 | August 8, 2019 4:01 PM |
I've been saying this for years. It is TRUE.
by Anonymous | reply 8 | August 8, 2019 4:04 PM |
That said, most of the pop songs from the 50s, 60s and 70s that I know well are scales or four-five consecutive notes of a scale one way or another. That or it's just 2-3 notes. For the most of them. The "easy" ones. Of course there are exceptions, but many are like this. We could even make list, and it would be a long list.
by Anonymous | reply 9 | August 8, 2019 4:06 PM |
[quote]Melodies are hard to compose and require talent.
This is kind of the whole point, isn't it?
by Anonymous | reply 10 | August 8, 2019 4:07 PM |
Well-known tunes that incorporate a scale:
"Caro nome" from Rigoletto
Habanera from Carmen is a chromatic scale.
by Anonymous | reply 11 | August 8, 2019 4:10 PM |
The video's example of James Mac Millan Seven Last Words is a great example of everything put to rest on tone colour. Most really good film music these days is like this. Tone colour and rhythm that follows the movement of the story perfectly. It's what audiences expect, as well.
by Anonymous | reply 12 | August 8, 2019 4:13 PM |
The death of melody.
Only in America where music is shit stain to the ears.
by Anonymous | reply 13 | August 8, 2019 4:19 PM |
It seems like so many of my musical heroes -- Stipe, Morrissey, Joni Mitchell, so many others -- eventually get to a point where they just moan into the microphone and produce "songs" that sound like funeral dirges. I don't get it but that, to me, is truly the Death of Melody.
by Anonymous | reply 14 | August 8, 2019 4:20 PM |
Some pop singers these days have a very strong ear for melody (Carly Rae Jepsen comes to mind) but I agree that it’s not as prevalent in pop music.
by Anonymous | reply 15 | August 8, 2019 4:21 PM |
Re: EDM, it seems to me Avicii excelled at harmony. I could be wrong. Audra Mae (Judy's great grand-niece!) sings I'm Addicted To You and... it's all about tone colour actually.
Another reason why complex melodies fell out of favour IMO, is that there is very little music education today, and simple melodies are much easier to follow if you have no musical education. Sadly, it's the same with complex language.
by Anonymous | reply 16 | August 8, 2019 4:22 PM |
R15 Yep, I've noticed that in recent years the ONLY hit that I've enjoyed singing is Call Me Maybe.
by Anonymous | reply 17 | August 8, 2019 4:27 PM |
[quote]Melodies are hard to compose and require talent. A good melodic hook is not easy.
But a according to the video posted, they are very common. Melodies aren’t. Hooks are everywhere
by Anonymous | reply 18 | August 8, 2019 4:30 PM |
R14, the video points out (more saliently) that the rise of electronic and dance music, along with rap, has had a stronger effect on making melodies no longer fashionable
by Anonymous | reply 19 | August 8, 2019 4:32 PM |
Yep, after watching this video, I was trying to think of any popular songs I liked from the last decade and I could only think of two: “Call Me Maybe” by Jepson and “Safe and Sound” by Capitol Cities.
by Anonymous | reply 20 | August 8, 2019 4:32 PM |
Safe and Sound has a good trumpet hook and a killer video, but the melody isn’t much. Again, call me maybe has a great hook, that’s what people remember, not the melody that she sings.
by Anonymous | reply 21 | August 8, 2019 4:38 PM |
Safe and Sound is very nice, and the whole intro is a series of sound effects.
by Anonymous | reply 22 | August 8, 2019 4:46 PM |
Jepsen has a very melodic way of singing, regardless. She isn't flat at all.
by Anonymous | reply 23 | August 8, 2019 4:46 PM |
No, I think Safe and Sound has a strong melody. Certainly far more so than anything recent.
by Anonymous | reply 24 | August 8, 2019 4:52 PM |
Dammit. Wrong thread title.
by Anonymous | reply 25 | August 8, 2019 4:56 PM |
Avicii's melodies are all very simple and obvious once you have the chord progression.
This might sound weird, but I think it may be that people feel sort of *corny* writing melodies now -- like it's something for kids. I tell aspiring songwriters: listen to the Beatles, separate out just the melody, and hum it to yourself a lot -- many of the best ones sound like they could pass as lullabys or happy old folk tunes. Put them to electric guitar and drums, it's a rock song. But today we have all these Tormented Artistes, who look down on the simple beauty of a nice melody, they all seem to want to go for, Heartrending Emotional Purge, or Party Bounce.
by Anonymous | reply 26 | August 8, 2019 4:57 PM |
[quote]This might sound weird, but I think it may be that people feel sort of *corny* writing melodies now -- like it's something for kids.
the video points towards that fashion. that said, the popularity of "rocket man" and the Queen biopic shows a solid appreciation of melodic pop music, even if it is viewed as historic in nature.
by Anonymous | reply 27 | August 8, 2019 5:05 PM |
Ed Sheeran obviously doesn't care about being corny.
by Anonymous | reply 28 | August 8, 2019 5:06 PM |
This thread would make a wonderful companion to the J-Lo thread, except J-Lo doesn't sing.
by Anonymous | reply 29 | August 8, 2019 5:06 PM |
20 years ago, I really enjoyed The Man Who. Are there any albums like that being produced today? That I can listen to the entire album, not just one "catchy" song?
by Anonymous | reply 30 | August 8, 2019 5:08 PM |
So young.
by Anonymous | reply 31 | August 8, 2019 5:11 PM |
With a few stops and back-and-forth along the way, I Need A Hero is basically a descending scale.
by Anonymous | reply 32 | August 9, 2019 9:39 AM |
The songs are quite melodic in Book of Mormon. Is it because it's a musical?
by Anonymous | reply 33 | August 9, 2019 11:54 AM |
Yes.
by Anonymous | reply 34 | August 9, 2019 1:23 PM |
r32 many of the best and most famous songs are just syncopated scales, and couldn't be more simple.
by Anonymous | reply 35 | August 9, 2019 2:49 PM |
“Lips are moving” by traynor is a good example of melody in recent pop music but it’s in a decidedly retro style.
by Anonymous | reply 36 | August 9, 2019 4:28 PM |
Exactly, what I've learned from this thread is that melody is retro now. And has been since the beginning of the century.
by Anonymous | reply 37 | August 9, 2019 8:27 PM |
I agree and, corny as you might find it, the lack of melody in today's music is the main reason I've always appreciated the songs of Barry Manilow.
by Anonymous | reply 39 | August 9, 2019 9:03 PM |
I'm wary of using the word 'melody' —it just sounds so old-fashioned— but I have ears to appreciate the sonority, the echoes and the trills in this video clip.
by Anonymous | reply 40 | August 9, 2019 9:16 PM |
Music is just sound. Avant-garde and experimental sounds are still considered music. Music snobs are annoying. He has a very narrow definition of 'melody'. Melodies can be extremely complex and atypical.
by Anonymous | reply 41 | August 9, 2019 9:23 PM |
[quote]Music is just sound. Avant-garde and experimental sounds are still considered music. Music snobs are annoying.
you're a jackass and an ignorant boob who clearly didn't deign to watch the video posted. "avant-garde" is not the subject but mainly pop music, where hooks and sampled bits have largely replaced full-blown melodies of any shape. but you're clearly too stupid to care.
by Anonymous | reply 42 | August 9, 2019 9:29 PM |
R42 Not sure why you're having a mental breakdown over what I said. I did watch the video, I'm just saying that many people have a very narrow definition of music and act like something must have x or y to be music or else.
by Anonymous | reply 43 | August 9, 2019 9:35 PM |
I blame ghetto rap music
by Anonymous | reply 44 | August 9, 2019 9:35 PM |
Me too, R44, it is ugly, monotonous, pointless, angry, repetitive and ugly.
Music should NOT be ugly.
by Anonymous | reply 45 | August 9, 2019 9:42 PM |
R40 Thank you for posting that, one of my very favourite Lieder from Schubert. It is in fact made of 3 poems by different poets, and you can hear it is a succession of 3 different moods and melodic "stories" if you will.
by Anonymous | reply 46 | August 9, 2019 9:45 PM |
A melody has to be made up of different notes. Other than that it's just rhythm and colour tone - not that there's anything wrong with that, it's just not melody.
by Anonymous | reply 47 | August 9, 2019 9:47 PM |
Again, a historical take for the visuals. From the 00s. And yes, it's more hook than melody. At least it's not the same note for 2 minutes...
by Anonymous | reply 48 | August 9, 2019 9:51 PM |
It’s really odd to me to have Billie Eilish as the poster girl for this opinion. If you listen to her most recent album there are a series of absolutely eye-watering, heart-melting tracks at the end. She and her brother can definitely write a melody. And I say that as someone who normally HATES ballads.
by Anonymous | reply 49 | August 9, 2019 10:16 PM |
I’m calling you a repulsive idiot r43, because you conflate “melody” with “music” which are two completely different things. But AGaIN, you’re too stupid to know better
by Anonymous | reply 50 | August 10, 2019 3:56 AM |
W&W for R26.
by Anonymous | reply 51 | August 10, 2019 9:39 AM |
Some more melody from Franz, courtesy of Peter and Andras:
by Anonymous | reply 52 | August 10, 2019 10:27 AM |
I think it's fair to say Melody was alive and well in the 19th century. In fact, French Lieder were called "Mélodies".
by Anonymous | reply 53 | August 10, 2019 10:42 AM |
Your references to Schubert are making me go to his Notturno.
It amazes that the subtlety of his writing and his three instruments (and the silences between the notes) can keep me engrossed though its ten minute duration
by Anonymous | reply 57 | August 10, 2019 12:36 PM |
Sexy songs
by Anonymous | reply 58 | August 10, 2019 1:56 PM |
I believe Beethoven was a major shift in classical music. I can easily see why his heavy reliance on single notes and rhythm could have been felt like "noise" at the time. Also why he is still so popular today. I mean the opening of his 5th Symphony... That could be an intro for a rock song today and wouldn't feel out of place, at all. I bet it was shocking then.
by Anonymous | reply 59 | August 10, 2019 2:02 PM |
Schubert, a young contemporary, did the opposite in his time, only melodies. . . .
by Anonymous | reply 60 | August 10, 2019 3:30 PM |
Some here are talking about "melody" and "hook" as if they are 2 completely distinct, independent things: they're usually not.
And musically, R55, Jason Robert Brown and Michael John LaChuisa are very, very different composers. They only thing they have in common is that they're white men under 60 writing musicals. I like them both and find Brown especially melodic in a very traditional, pop music way.
FWIW.
by Anonymous | reply 61 | August 10, 2019 4:28 PM |
If anyone from this thread can give me a hand on the clarinet thread, that is greatly appreciated, thanks
by Anonymous | reply 62 | August 10, 2019 4:31 PM |
I love a good clarinet
by Anonymous | reply 63 | August 10, 2019 5:16 PM |
For the clarinet guy, Samuel Barber's "Summer Music"
by Anonymous | reply 65 | August 10, 2019 5:25 PM |
For the clarinet guy, Samuel Barber's "Summer Music"
by Anonymous | reply 66 | August 10, 2019 5:25 PM |
Yes R59. The opening of his 5th Symphony is just 4 notes. Without melody.
The opening of Tchaikovsky's Symphony No. 4 has about 8 notes until a melody intervenes.
I guess they're like trumpet fanfares announcing the arrival of something important.
by Anonymous | reply 67 | August 10, 2019 6:51 PM |
Ah yes, the death of Melody...her plane crashed on New Guinea and she was eaten alive by cannibals. What a way to get rid of a girlfriend. Melody Nelson, "Cargo Culte" by Serge Gainsbourg.
by Anonymous | reply 68 | August 10, 2019 6:56 PM |
Another catchy tune: Ligeti's *Requiem*, performed live.
by Anonymous | reply 69 | August 10, 2019 7:02 PM |
^ I can only guess that's Ligeti's account of his countrymen being gassed in the ovens at Auschwitz and Birkenau.
by Anonymous | reply 70 | August 10, 2019 10:48 PM |
Ligeti is the classic post-WWII sound of indeed, gas chambers and nuclear fission in the form of musical expressionism
by Anonymous | reply 71 | August 10, 2019 11:40 PM |
^ I recognise the Angry Nihilism in that awful music in the visual art of 1950s American Abstract Expressionism.
It's cold, angry and utterly unappealing.
by Anonymous | reply 72 | August 11, 2019 12:56 AM |
Trust such a thread to bring the musical reacionatires out of the woodwork.
by Anonymous | reply 73 | August 11, 2019 1:30 AM |
R73 Do you regard yourself as "a musical progressive"? What gives you listening pleasure?
Or do you listen as a duty instead of pleasure? Do you experience melody
by Anonymous | reply 74 | August 11, 2019 1:37 AM |
I like ligeti, don't get me wrong
by Anonymous | reply 75 | August 11, 2019 2:42 AM |
R75 Do you like others like Ligeti? Like Schtockhausen?
by Anonymous | reply 76 | August 11, 2019 3:24 AM |
R76, maybe penderecki
by Anonymous | reply 79 | August 11, 2019 5:11 AM |
I read an interview with a film composer, who said he’d written a melodic score for an A film, but was told by the producers to junk it, because all they wanted was a “sound wall,” which is what he eventually gave them.
I grew up with the melodic film scores in what is now called the Golden Age (late 30’s -early 60’s). But now melody is scorned, on the grounds that it detracts from the scene, and telegraphs the emotions.
So films and shows now seem to me just mostly unmemorable. It’s rare for a musical to have even one melodic song, if that. I can’t tell if composers can no longer write melodies, or if they’re so ingrained at trying to be trendy, that they just disdain them.
It certainly seems melody is a lost art.
by Anonymous | reply 80 | August 11, 2019 7:00 AM |
Is it possible that all possible permutations of notes that can construct a melody have been used in the past and that’s why we’re getting only noise in the present?
by Anonymous | reply 81 | August 11, 2019 7:53 AM |
R81 I know of a composer from my country who said exactly that in the 1950s.
He was full of the arrogance of youth and he declared that he had "to invent a new form of atonal music because the world had run out of tunes!".
His teacher was unimpressed saying to him "Is that necessary, Peter? Do you think God run out of faces?'.
That composer wrote his angry, angular guttural pieces up until the 1980s when he realised that the world had changed and they were tired of his ugly style. So he then in his latter years he started making use of melody.
by Anonymous | reply 82 | August 11, 2019 8:34 AM |
Some of these trends are not THAT new in pop music. "Sweet Dreams are made of these" has only 4 melodic notes. (1983). "The one note samba" (self-descriptive) (1960) . On the other hand, country music has always used a lot of melody. Animated films for children use a lot of singable melody (Frozen). I do think rap has encouraged people to listen to the lyrics more than to the music, and obviously very often a good tune is much more powerful than a mediocre lyric, which is why people go around humming or la la la-ing a lot of tuneful songs. Likewise, striving for an interesting fresh rhythm can mean de-emphasizing melody so as not to distract. In the 60s, composers tried to do both, so you had Bacharach and Sondheim and Bernstein and Styne writing very complex rhythms in pop forms with equally complex melodic material. (Promises promises is a typical example, Don't rain on my parade is another). These songs were not exactly top-40 pop material, because the rhythms were too hard for the average radio listener to imitate or latch onto. Classical music of the 20th century also explored rhythmic ideas to the exclusion of melody at times, starting with Rite of Spring (1913) or even earlier. I guess my point is that melody isn't dead or dying, but composers take a break from it periodically to emphasize different aspects of music.
by Anonymous | reply 83 | August 11, 2019 9:23 AM |
Film producers' preference for a "sound wall" has been a thing for at least the past 20 years. It used to be derided, now it's just common.
That said, when I watch a show or a film and it is just sound texture basically, or one note echoing - basically I like it. I'm not expecting something else at the moment.
For something that passes as a song, however...
by Anonymous | reply 84 | August 11, 2019 9:26 AM |
Fantastic story, R82.
by Anonymous | reply 85 | August 11, 2019 12:04 PM |
R82, I like sculthorpe’s stuff
by Anonymous | reply 86 | August 11, 2019 1:19 PM |
My music teacher used to compare and contrast Rhythm with Melody.
He said Rhythm was Energy and Melody was Beauty.
He said Rhythm equalled Sex and Melody equalled The heart.
He said Rhythm was Muscle and Melody was The matrix.
He said Rhythm was African and Melody was European.
by Anonymous | reply 88 | August 19, 2019 1:33 AM |
Yes, agree and Billie Eilish copied Lana Del Rey
by Anonymous | reply 89 | August 19, 2019 1:45 AM |