Is staying in the closet to have a career ethical?

It's not a matter of ethics. It is an exercise to your right to privacy.

I understand the right to privacy, but to misrepresent yourself to the public should also be taken into consideration. To fake a hetero relationship seems dishonest.

But people only do that out of fear of other people's prejudices. Maybe not much of an issue today, but it was when I started my career in the '80s.

Why would you be obligated ethically to tell any one what gender you prefer to fuck.. Think OP.

Pretending to be something you're not to advance your career is most certainly unethical but nothing new and sadly something that will always happen in some form.

R4 Ask R5 and R2.

[quote]It's not a matter of ethics. It is an exercise to your right to privacy.

This is a matter of ethics and morals not privacy since he is bearding to deceive the public.

Shawn has no ethics, clearly morals are out of the question, but he is making bank and that is all that counts.

I loathe the closet and those who choose to hide in it.... however, we have an unfair double standard with actors. We want them to be out, loud, and proud in part because (let's be honest) we desire them and because they are public figures, but they work in an industry that still punishes them for doing so.

We don't hold lawyers, doctors, druggists, or desk clerks to the same standard, and most of them aren't penalized for coming out, at least not in the same manner.

Let's pay at least as much scrutiny to public officials, I say, whose public lives affect public policy and law.

Why is DL so obsessed with this guy? His looks are average and his music is for teeny boppers. Who gives a shit?

I have mixed feelings about this. Especially, when it comes to celebrities. So much of their life and image is orchestrated that I find it difficult to just point out one thing, like bearding. Pretending is what these people do for a living. Actors and people in the music industry rely on the public to make their money. They want to appeal to the masses, so they carefully create a persona that they think will play out well to their projected fan base. What they do in their private lives is really their own business. I get why some in the gay community take offense to bearding. It’s like being ashamed of who you really are. But I also think people in the industry are ashamed of being human in general. That’s why they don’t talk about plastic surgery, getting older, photo shop their pics, etc.

To me, it is a much, MUCH bigger deal that someone like Apple CEO Tim Cooke is out of the closet than some Hollywood actor.

It's a matter of privacy. His sex life is none of you business. And you have no idea whether someone is closeted to boost their career or whether they are actually struggling to come to terms with their sexuality. Which is difficult even today

Unless I'm fucking them I don't require someone to come out in order to feel better about myself. Nor do I base my worth on it. Who gives a shit about the sexuality of someone I'll never meet and don't plan to?

Both Shawn and Camila's music was flopping, so their managers cooked up this faux romance to get teen girls interested in them again. It worked, but I wonder how long they plan on keeping this little charade going? My guess is until they release new albums. Then they'll magically decide to split, but remain the best of friends.

It's disgusting, really.

Shawn is pretty close to perfect

Why did they crop out the best part? R15

R16 Always leave wanting more

For folks like Cock Gobbler not Shawn, I am totally in favor of outing the closet case. Anyone who works against gay and lesbian rights but enraged in same sex sexual encounters should have their hypocrisy publicly called into question and hopefully have a negative career impact (politician, religious figure, thought leader, etc.).

With celebrities like Shawn, I feel more ambivalent. I appreciate everyone’s right to privacy. But, research suggests that the more that LGB come out — friends, public figures—the more acceptance develops socially. Remaining in the closet has a personal component but not coming out also means not making it easier for the next generation

There's nothing "unethical" about not disclosing to the world what kind of sexual partner you prefer, especially when coming out as gay can leave you open to prejudice. That's pretty private stuff and it's nobody's damn business. Elton John feigned heterosexuality, even married a woman, no doubt due in part to societal pressures. But eventually, he made a choice to be open with the public about his sexuality.

On the other end of the spectrum, you've got somebody like Harry Casey from KC & The Sunshine Band, who by all accounts, is gay, but who also claimed to be straight in the 1970s. How smart would it have been for a sexy man who had tons of female fans (and straight male fans) to tell everyone he's gay? In recent years, he's chosen to be mum on the subject and I respect his choice, just as much as I respect Elton's. He's in no way obligated to the public to confirm his sexuality one way or the other.

Representation matters. It's how we stop being "the big bad".

I don't think anyone should stamp their feet about 20 year old Shawn Mendes. (I know he gave an interview he should have, but that's a separate matter.) I do think there is a point at which the closet becomes utterly pathetic, though.

I have to leave it to the individual.

Bump

R2, I agree with you. Actors and other celebrities have the right to privacy. If a closeted actor goes around squiring women to events, it looks as if he is dating women. Then, he should be outed. He perpetuates the notion that it is shameful to be gay.

Last night I watched the 1943 film, "The Song of Bernadette," on PBS. This afternoon I surfed through Wikipedia, reading about the lives of the various actors and actresses in the film. The actor who played a love interest of Bernadette was William Eythe. He took various actresses out in the 1940s, and he was briefly married to another. He was gay, and he ended up living with another actor, Lon McCallister, who achieved fame playing boyishly handsome types. Here was a time, though, that society stigmatized and shamed gay men. Today there is far greater acceptance of us. To stay closeted today perpetuates the stigma.

The greatest role models I had/have were men and women I know/knew and encounter in my life. Still, I wish there were men in film and in sports who were out and proud, as I was growing up. Even if I did not know them and there was little likelihood of ever knowing them, an out gay man in avocations I admired such as sports or film would have made me feel less lonely and better about myself at 14 or 15.

Celebs like Shawn Mendes sell products based on their public, consumer friendly image. Our society is built on pretending to be someone you are not (and lie) in order to get what you want and be a productive member of society.

Even openly gay celebrities lie in some form in order to be more marketable and therefore appealing to consumers.

Our celebrity culture creates "false Gods" we worship. We idolize them and see them as such great role models that one needs to copy their every move, their on-trend styles and image branding.

Personally nobody owes it to the rest of the world to let them know the real you. Especially when parts of who you really are are being held against you or you are being judged for them. But we do care way too much about other people like celebrities and put them on pedestals because celebrity culture is a profitable business.

[Quote] Personally nobody owes it to the rest of the world to let them know the real you.

Of course not. But I think there's a lot of dishonesty that goes on around the subject of "privacy". A certain actor much discussed recently doesn't talk about their personal life (except when they do) but opened a recent interview mentioning when they first fucked. "Privacy" isn't an all-purpose shield. People can see, and call out, hypocrisy.

R23 I was watching that movie, too.

I get what you're saying, but years ago during the studio era in Hollywood, the studios would pair up actors and actresses to go out to events to portray the image they wanted the public to see. It was all make-believe, and it still is today.

I don't think an actor has any responsibility other than to act, and a singer has no responsibility other than to sing. Their private lives should be irrelevant.

[Quote] Their private lives should be irrelevant.

Do you think spouses should be banned from red carpets, or as love interests in music videos?

I'm of the opinion that staying in the closet in itself is not unethical. It probably harmful for an individual's wellbeing in the long term, but you do you, boo.

But if you're in the public eye, to intentionally give the appearance that you're heterosexual when you're not is, in my opinion, unethical - especially if it's for the purpose to acquire capital. Because to intentionally deny or obfuscate one's homosexuality is to imply that there is something wrong with it, and for that they can fuck off.

Mind your business and don’t tell Others how to live or identify. It’s the bully l, intolerant, scorched earth, and bossy tendencies of gay activists that are hurting the movement

YES, bearding is ETHICAL. Pop music is part of the entertainment INDUSTRY. The main GOAL is to MAKE CASH. It's NOT about art, ethics, social responsibly predominantly. These kids (Shawn and Camilla) sell COMMERCIAL products to people who want to CONSUME, therefore you must GIVE THE CROWD WHAT THEY WANT. The 'artists' are part of a MULTIMULLION BUSINESS, which MANY PEOPLE LIVE OFF FROM (their team, the media, concert venues etc.) So the BEST STRATEGY is the one which makes the MOST CASH FOR THE LARGEST NUMBER OF PEOPLE. Coming out LIMITS your market in a drastic way, you become NICHE. And this is not ideal if you want to sell MAINSTREAM and LOW TO AVERAGE QUALITY GOODS. Therefore it is both ETHICAL and SENSIBLE to stay closeted or beard if necessary during your most commercial years where you receive lots of attention from young, EASILY IMPRESSIONABLE AND INFLUENCABLE people. You can still live your truth LATER WHEN NOBODY CARES ANYMORE.

Caps? Really.

Sam Smith is out. He sings love songs. Most of his fanbase is not lusting over him (which gives him a certain privilege). He's not niche. The closet is not a necessity or the only "smart" option. Fuck that shit.

[quote]It's a matter of privacy. His sex life is none of you business. And you have no idea whether someone is closeted to boost their career or whether they are actually struggling to come to terms with their sexuality. Which is difficult even today

[bold]Bearding[/bold] is the definition of famewhoring. The hell are you talking about? You don't beard to be private, you bead to be public.

[Quote] His sex life is none of you business

Sexuality isn't just about the bedroom.

There are multiple problems with being in the closet (psychological among them), but the question was whether it's ethical.

If there is harm to another that could be alleviated by revealing one's orientation, then there is an ethical question.

It's not a simple question. But on the extreme, if you associate with those who oppress homosexuals, and don't reveal yourself and speak out, it's not ethical. Most tellingly the legislators who support anti-LGBT policy or even propose it.

The closet by itself usually is, even if there are often courses of action much more ethical. As well, being closeted so often comes along with circumstances and other choices that make it unethical.

Bearding is usually unethical, even if there are often reasons for why someone chooses to do it. Rarely, it is ethical if done to protect your safety in an overtly hostile environment.

R27 No, of course not. But I think it should be the choice of the individual, and not mandated. Like what R30 said, the entertainment business is built on fantasy. It's not real-life. Nobody would be interested in it if it were.

R31 YES, CAPS , REALLY ;-)

R33 Say it louder to the people in the back!

R20 My usual rule is that if one is closeted at 15 that's understandable, 20 that's regrettable, 25 that's pathetic, and 30 its upsetting. If you can be out by your 30s what the fuck is wrong with you? (aside from if you're in clear danger)

[Quote] the entertainment business is built on fantasy. It's not real-life. Nobody would be interested in it if it were.

You write "fantasy" like it's a general thing. It's not. It's hetereo fantasy.

I don't think gay celebrities have a responsibility to the gay community. They should be able to handle their own sexuality however they see fit. If that means they prefer to put on a heterosexual face for the public and live as a homosexual privately, that's their right.

By the way, by 'upsetting' I mean that if they're a close friend I'd be worried for their mental health and/or their honesty in general, or if they're a public figure I'm upset about what this seems to say about the current social standard of gay equality. I'm not all weeping for myself or whatever.

R40 That's what sells.

R41 there's always been the difference between one's rights and one's good. Gays ourselves have fought for rights, but we continue to fight for a world that considers us good.

[Quote] If that means they prefer to put on a heterosexual face for the public and live as a homosexual privately

Live as a homosexual? You're a homosexual or you're not. It's not a lifestyle.

R39 Why? Barry Manilow was in his 70s I think when he came out...actually I'm not really sure if he is "out" per se.

To use KC as an example again, he's like 69 and isn't out and seems like he's just fine.

r44 Well said. The whole struggle with religion is where the rights v perception question is raised. Do religious people have the right to discriminate against gay humans because they are gay? No, right? right?

KC of the Sunshine Band?

This is when you know you are talking to fangirls, homophobic ones at that, that see no problem with bearding or staying in the closet. A gay man would know better than to say it was ok to pose "as a heterosexual" to the public, as if there was no harm in being ashamed of homosexuality. No gay man talks like that !!!

I think it's time for Muriel to close the Mendes threads. A shame really, the fangirls always come to ruin the celebrity threads.

R45 You're putting words in my mouth. I never said "lifestyle". I don't believe in that "lifestyle" bullshit. That is what REALLY hurts the gay community-- the idea that it's a "choice". It's not.

I'm talking about people living their lives without having to get approval from "the community." And if that means being ok with the public thinking you're straight, what right does anyone have to judge that person. Its about freedom.

It's worse when the fangirls are women of thirty and up.

R49 Yes, the same.

[quote]I'm talking about people living their lives without having to get approval from "the community." And if that means being ok with the public thinking you're straight, what right does anyone have to judge that person. Its about freedom.

You are talking about people living fake lives because they are ashamed to be themselves. Shut the fuck up and admit that the very definition of bearding is homophobia. He is not bearding because of gay men. He is bearding because of women like you. Women that are ok with the social rejection of gay men.

[Quote] You're putting words in my mouth. I never said "lifestyle". I don't believe in that "lifestyle" bullshit.

You don't believe in that bullshit yet you type "Live as a homosexual privately." Your words make it sound like one can clock in and clock out of one's sexuality.

The problem with the closet as a culture is that it allows the ignorant to maintain the world as they want it, and it hurts people other than the individual who chooses to profit off bigotry.

[Quote] Its about freedom.

The closet is never about freedom.

R49 Wow! Touchy, aren't we! FYI I'm not a girl, let alone a "fangirl."

"No gay man would ever talk like that!"

Are you 100% sure of that?

R54 Jeez...no I just don't think people should be forced out if they don't want to be. Not everybody wants to be an activist or the face of the gay community at large. Some people just want to be left the fuck alone.

[Quote] I'm talking about people living their lives without having to get approval from "the community."

But those people choosing the closet for their career are doing so to get approval from another "community"...

[quote]Its about freedom.

[bold]It's about Heterosexual freedom.[/bold] Bearding is done to apace heterosexual masses that are too bigoted to feel empathy for those that are not them. No one stayed in the closet for freedom. [/bold]No one beards because the feel free[/bold].

[Quote] Some people just want to be left the fuck alone.

Then such people should leave Hollywood.

R59 That's easy to say if your livelihood doesn't depend on it.

R31 Sam Smith and Shawn Mendes are both gay men but otherwise worlds apart, and not just regarding their looks.

I didn't say staying closeted is the ONLY option, but for someone like Shawn it is the BEST option. Shawn's main assets are his youthful charm, good looks and to a lesser degree his moderate musical talent. These properties largely define his market and options. What would happen if he came out? The fan girls would loose interest. His current music does not have the quality to pull another fan base. Therefore he would have to change his musical style and quality as well. But this is very risky and uncertain. Shawn doesn't seem very mature yet, at least concerning his musical identity (he really has nothing to say or express), thus such a change would be more suitable in a couple of years. Sam Smith's main asset is his voice which in itself makes him stand out. His fan base are mostly adult people who like his emotional songs and singing. Some people don't like his looks or style but his music has enough quality to speak for itself. Staying closeted is not needed for Sam, as his sexual orientation or relationship status does not change his attractiveness to his target market. But for Shawn it does. Until Shawn has other assets, staying closeted makes sense.

I don't understand the question.

[Quote] That's easy to say if your livelihood doesn't depend on it.

No one should choose to be a public figure if they can't handle being a public figure. Anyone who chooses to cultivate an image as a public figure has to contend with that image being examined, critiqued, challenged.

Yeah I’d cry buckets for my lost ethics as I counted my millions.

[quote]Are you 100% sure of that?

Oh, I am 100% sure there is not one gay bone in your body R56.

You are not a gay man and that's why you're getting blocked and the Mendes threads are getting nuked.

R57 I totally agree. I just think that nobody should be shamed or forced out of their comfort zone when they're not ready. And they may never be ready, especially with people of an older generation.

R49 Bitch, this is a more serious and important topic on a discussion board and all you have to contribute is to diacredit people with a different opinion than yours? That's weak, sweetie.

OP is the Welp Troll, F and F

r61

For me, Shawn Mendes shouldn't even be a topic of conversation in this thread. He's too young. I wouldn't even talk about Bieber either. Or Lindsey Lohan. Child stars are their own sad sad situation.

Kevin Spacey and "Diane". That's fair game.

R63 You're assuming it's a "choice". We all have to do what we can to eat, baby. Plenty of people swallow their pride and dignity to do what they can to get by. It's a rough world out there...

Lying is lying.

[Quote] You're assuming it's a "choice". We all have to do what we can to eat, baby. Plenty of people swallow their pride and dignity to do what they can to get by. It's a rough world out there...

Yeah, yeah. I'm sure these poor closeted souls are doing everything in their power to find a career where they wouldn't have to be closeted, but there just aren't any openings...

R67, I give no fucks to ignorant homophobes. If you believe pushing back against the closet is discrediting heterosexuals, then you need to take a hike you little doormat . Those days when homosexual men were expected to lower their heads and remain quiet as toxic points of view were thrown at us are long gone. The fuck with you. R67 is blocked too!

People should look up the word "ethical" in the dictionary.

R15 Most porn stars have this to offer ...

R9 I agree but this guy gives us something to talk about. Also, the DL loves to speculate if someone is gay and Shawn is obvious.

R72 Richard Chamberlain was closeted for many years. I don't begrudge him that choice. Should he have bagged groceries instead?

R71 Not really. Some lies are far worse than others.

[Quote] Richard Chamberlain was closeted for many years. I don't begrudge him that choice. Should he have bagged groceries instead?

Well, he certainly should have left the Royal Shakespeare Company alone.

And I think "begrudge" or "don't bedgrudge" aren't the only options here.

Why are people so obsessed with this ugly ass child and rather or not he’s gay?

R74 Exactly right. We're all so quick to judge, aren't we? Damn!

Ethical:

[italic]relating to moral principles or the branch of knowledge dealing with these[/italic]

Ethical is indeed the correct word to use in this case.

R78 I've never seen RC do a Shakespeare play. But I think he's a fine actor.

No, r81, one's sexuality is not a question of ethics.

R73 You are not discrediting straight people in general, but you are discrediting other posters with a different opinion than yours. The aim of a discussion is to listen to exchange opinions and grow. But instead, you bring an emotional and somewhat toxic attitude into this, which is not constructive at all.

To me "unethical" is stealing money from an orphanage.

Lying about one's own sexuality isn't even in the same universe.

It is not anyone's moral responsibility to come out to anyone else. And Ive been out my entire adult life. I don't consider any other gay person as owing it to me to be out. Unless your career is defined by being gay where does ethics come into it?

NO R83, read the question again, the topic of this thread mentions staying in the closet for career. Is it ethical?

Why else would anyone stay in the closet for business and work??

r85

What about if you're lying to your spouse?

r87, it's none of your business and no one owes you that knowledge.

"Why else would anyone stay in the closet for business and work??"

r87 fail to understand there are people who actually live and work in places that are very inhospitable to gay people.

R85 That WOULD be unethical.

But we're not comparing hiding one's true sexuality from one's spouse, and hiding it from total strangers, are we?

Central to this question is "Do you believe in every man for himself?"

*(sorry, I meant R88) That WOULD be unethical.

But we're not comparing hiding one's true sexuality from one's spouse, and hiding it from total strangers, are we?

R89, well guess what darling? Will talk about it because we can. You don't want you read this thread? You are welcome to FF this thread until is gone. It is your right after all.

R90, you are not going to teach me about homophobia in the entertainment business. Bearding is not going to make the music industry less inhospitable to gay men. Sam Smith is the example of someone that is gay and not bearding.

r94, I'm not talking about homophobia in the entertainment business. I'm talking about homophobia in a factory in the midwest or in the south.

[Quote] But we're not comparing hiding one's true sexuality from one's spouse, and hiding it from total strangers, are we?

No. I'm interested in where one draws the line, though.

Are lies of omission the same as lies of commission in terms of the career closet? Bearding vs. no bearding etc.?

Personally, I don't get angry about every and anyone in the closet. But there are cases where my blood boils - such as Queen Latifah headlining a Pride event a few years ago. That made a mockery of what is a public declaration and celebration. If people don't want a seat at the table, so be it. But don't take money from an event that's the opposite to what you stand for.

So R63 takes the Homer Simpsons route : If these Celebrities didn't want people going through their garbage or saying they're Gay they should not have expressed themselves creatively

R94 You keep using Sam Smith as an example, lol. He ain't exactly Ricky Martin, Honey. He doesn't have an "image" to protect.

Heterosexual sex outsells all. It's all about $$$.

[Quote] So [R63] takes the Homer Simpsons route : If these Celebrities didn't want people going through their garbage or saying they're Gay they should not have expressed themselves creatively

Hyperbole does your line of argument no favours.

[Quote] You keep using Sam Smith as an example, lol. He ain't exactly Ricky Martin, Honey. He doesn't have an "image" to protect

Of course he does. "Sex symbol" isn't the only image of value. If Sam imprisoned a hooker by chaining him up to a radiator against his will, and was charged over it, you can bet his image would take a hit.

Another stealth Shawn Mendes thread. Who cares? He'll never end up fucking any of you.

R100 ...but that would be a crime. I would hope nobody would condone that.

I'm talking about getting horny straight women to buy your songs. A little different.

[Quote] I'm talking about getting horny straight women to buy your songs.

The scope of this thread is a little larger than that. And the career closet isn't always solely about the opposite sex (c.f. Ronaldo).

R103 I'm aware of the scope of the thread. The context of my comment was about Sam Smith as a singer, vs as a sex symbol to hetero women.

r104

Then you phrased the following comment too generally:

[Quote] He doesn't have an "image" to protect

If Maluma just came out, then why can't Shawn?

Mind your own goddamn business and let others mind theirs. I cant stand you outing bitches thinking you have the right to expose someones personal lives. If they arent influencing public policies that hurt others,how could that possibly affect YOU ?

"Mind your own goddamn business and let others mind theirs"

So it's okay for the tabloids to focus on the private lives of hetero stars.....but they can't call out phonies who pretend to be straight when their not? Stop defending the closet.

You closet defenders don't understand the difference between being private and living a lie. "I don't talk about my private life" is being private, bearding isn't privacy, it's lying. If you want to be private, stop shoving your fauxmance in everyone's faces.

[quote] I'm not talking about homophobia in the entertainment business. I'm talking about homophobia in a factory in the midwest or in the south.

Here is the truth that you may not know about, there are openly gay men in the rural parts of the country. Fierce men that pave the way so that men who are living more privileged lives, like Shawn Mendes whom is the example given in this thread, do not have to beard. You can twist it all you want. You can give us the most extreme of examples, and the answer will always be "unethical."

A person may chose to be in the closet because they fear for their life.[bold] Living a lie is not ethical[/bold] but in his/her case it will be a necessity [bold]until[/bold] he/she finds a better job or moves to a place where their lives are not in danger if they are openly gay at work.

A person staying in the closet for career prospects is a different issue. Your life in not in danger. Your career prospects will always be in danger while you work for that homophobic employer. A gay person can always look for another job and they should.

[Quote] If they arent influencing public policies that hurt others,how could that possibly affect YOU ?

Public figures influence the culture in which they live. People talk about inspiring figures whom they've never met all the time. Should it be verboten to discuss uninspiring figures?

Please, stop comparing these lying celebs to scared teens from the rural South. Their lives aren't in danger, they're just greedy fucks who lie to get $$$$

How certain are we that Shawn is gay? It seems very likely.

Certain enough that there have been dozens of threads about it R112

It's what God wanted.

To those pointing to Sam Smith as a supposedly out gay man, last I heard he's non-binary or gender fluid or something, so he no longer claims to be a man.

[QUOTE]If Maluma just came out, then why can't Shawn?

Excuse me? What did Maluma “come out”?

When*

r116 It's breaking news......

Where’s the DL thread on it?

Why did you not just post this question on a Shawn Mendes thread?

r120 It is likely for SUBSCRIBERS only. That's some bullshit.

Shawn does seem very likely to be gay esp after this forces, cringe bearding Helen Keller could see from space.

A thread about outing. How 1992.

[quote]If Maluma just came out, then why can't Shawn?

What ???? OMG, yes!!

Not so fast, R123. Maluma wouldn’t come out if I held a gun to his head. His career would flatline. His star power is concentrated in South America and their homophobia is only rivaled by Africa. The straight men would lose respect and admiration for him and the women would no longer desire him. He’d become a nobody overnight.

Why can't I find anything about Maluma's supposed coming out on the internet?

Because someone's having a little "fun."

It's no one else's business. If the closeted person isn't being down on gays or otherwise causing harm, leave them alone. It isn't anyone's obligation to be a trailblazer or someone else's idea of heroic. Leave them alone.

What about gossip forums like this? Should we never make mention of closeted public figures? Should we be complicit in their closet?

Maluma loves the ladies.

A boy's best friend is his mother.

[quote] His star power is concentrated in South America and their homophobia is only rivaled by Africa.

No it isn't. Ricky is beloved in Latin America and there are gay artist throughout Latin America.

I want Maluma to be out like yesterday!!!

Seriously, are we sure Shawn is gay or is he just guilty of being Canadian?

OMG R132

The Canadian government has apologized for Bryan Adams on numerous occasions!

Britain has taken kd lang to their bosom.

Bump because of the other Shawn threads now being paywalled.

R136 Please DONT make this about Shawn Mendes. I only used him since he is the most recent example.

Bump

The guy on the left in the OP pic, he's that MAGA Catholic boy with mini-teeth from KY, right?

Being closeted and wanting to keep your personal life private is fine.

But deliberately staging and promoting a fake heterosexual relationship in the public eye, like Shawn is doing, for the purposes of album sales... is unethical.

Shawn is not gay. He’s bi at the most.

Shawn flames so brightly.

But that doesn’t mean he’s incapable of having sex with a woman.

who cares about ethics when money is involved! isn't it the US?

Until actors are no longer discriminated against for being gay, I have no problem with them staying in the closet.

Shawn just hasn't found the right girl yet to let pop his cherry. Some day though he'll find a lucky gal to give his flower.

[Quote] Until actors are no longer discriminated against for being gay, I have no problem with them staying in the closet

Do you see how maintaining the closet helps maintain discrimination?

I see the Shawn Mendes is bisexual troll is here.

r147 Do you see how out male gay actors are discriminated against? Name an out male gay actor who's been cast as a straight guy. (Besides Luke Evans in a fairy tale)

Luke Evans' character was straight in Girl on the Train, among many other non fantasy projects. DL's beloved NPH played a straight guy in Gone Girl.

How does progress happen?

Zachary Quinto R149?

If Shawn was a fat ugly guy, you guys wouldn't care less. Let the him be. And he's probably bi and has fucked Camila.

I'd be shocked if Shawn has been anywhere near a pussy since the day he was born.

[quote] But deliberately staging and promoting a fake heterosexual relationship in the public eye, like Shawn is doing, for the purposes of album sales... is unethical.

First of all, how do you know it's fake or do you know him personally to say this? Why is it unethical? Because he happens to go out with someone and can't help being photographed by fans? All he owes people is his music. He's still a person who deserves a right to privacy.

This is why DL needs an edit function, so the OP could switch out the Mendes photograph. Shawn Mendes has more than enough threads here.

[Quote] DL's beloved NPH played a straight guy in Gone Girl.

And Barney from HIMYM.

It’s no ones business. Who cares? Let people come out when THEY are ready. Not when you feel they should be ready.

I remember in 1990, I worked a small cocktail party at a flat in Chicago. One guy was throwing for his work colleagues - partners in some kind of firm. His gay boyfriend was there reluctantly making their apartment “straight” and was pretty anxious and angry about it. Once he left, a woman friend came over and pretended to be the other guy’s girlfriend. They probably entertained about 8 people for about 90 minutes. It was pretty stilted but I guess it worked. When it was over, the boyfriend returned. His partner was relieved but it seemed very pathetic. Thinking back, this was before AZT so in heteros minds, gay probably equalled diseased and death. Maybe it was necessary. But the boyfriend did seem very upset about it. I doubt their relationship lasted.

"If Shawn was a fat ugly guy, you guys wouldn't care less. Let the him be. And he's probably bi and has fucked Camila."

If he was fat and ugly, you wouldn't be insisting that he was "really" bi. You wouldn't care about him.

If someone offered you all the millions and millions of dollars that come from being a pop star, you’d do the same. Anyone who says they wouldn’t is lying or moralizing. I would. If someone could make me a multi-millionaire, I’d never fuck a man for the rest of my life.

r160, yeah right. You'd keep fucking guys. You might do it on the sly, but you wouldn't stop fucking guys.

Having sex with men gives me nothing that millions of dollars would give me. Sex isn’t THAT fun, really. Honestly, I’d give it up out of stubbornness to prove a point or even boredom. Why wouldn’t I give it up for a fortune?

Well, you sound borderline asexual anyway, so giving up sex wouldn't be much of a sacrifice for you.

I guess? I’m not sure why this knowledge threatens you so. I’m sorry that I triggered something.

By keeping your gayness "hidden", the straights are going to think your sexuality is wrong and it has to be kept secret. Coming out publicly changes the "illicit" nature of gayness

The straights can think whatever they want to think. It’s not our job to train them into thinking we aren’t illicit. Live your life like a good person and people will notice.

I also agree with the poster above that stated the DL obsession with Shawn Mendes is weird. He’s for kids.

[Quote] Live your life like a good person and people will notice.

I can't believe you typed that while defending the closet.

I’m not defending the closet. But there are reasons people stay in and frankly, it has nothing to do with your approval. Selfish.

[Quote] I’m not defending the closet. But there are reasons people stay in and frankly, it has nothing to do with your approval.

The closet always has something to do with approval, usually the approval of homophobes.

[Quote] Live your life like a good person and people will notice.

This is so shortsighted. It's much more valuable to be perceived as a good person who is gay than a good person who "never married."

[quote] If he was fat and ugly, you wouldn't be insisting that he was "really" bi. You wouldn't care about him

I really don't care so why should you? But it bothers me that people are insisting he comes out of the closet when he never was in one.. This is a guy who is still young and spent all his life touring and is probably finding himself. So leave him alone.

I don't think uncertainty means one has never been in the closet.

Also, you are all speculating over some guy that may not be gay at all. Sure, laugh it up but seriously, you have no way of knowing he is gay. Some of his more flamboyant gestures would be a better confirmation in 1955, but things are different now, you cunts. Now go obsess over something more age appropriate! You want to get into Youtuber gossip now? Disgusting.

What part of 'please don't make this about Shawn' is so hard to understand?

He's the most obvious example and he was included in the OP R175

R174 what kind of gestures??

R57 OR they do it simply for the money. Something to seriously consider, as greed is a very powerful and intoxicating thing. It can lead to a slippery slope of poor choices...especially for younger people. Let's face it, these silly pop musicians make tonnes of money. I think the majority do it for enrichment rather than acceptance. It's all very shrewd really in my approximation.

[QUOTE]I see the Shawn Mendes is bisexual troll is here.

Shouldn’t you “Shawn Mendes is gay” people be the trolls?

I don't think they are doing it for money. She said she would never do PR like this. It's more as a friend helping another (to ward off gay rumors and PR, "hey can you be my gf for a year to stop these gay rumors about me?) but now that they are acting in the role, they are starting to like it or really getting into it. At least I'm getting that impression about her. It's harder to read him.

[Quote] She said she would never do PR like this.

You read her diary? Or you take words said in an interview as gospel?

I'm not taking a position either way R180. I was merely responding to R57... In a very vague general sort of manner, that he cannot be so certain that those who wish to remain closeted do it for acceptance.... I maintain it is often for money.

[Quote] he cannot be so certain that those who wish to remain closeted do it for acceptance.... I maintain it is often for money.

Those aren't mutually exclusive. Rather, they're tied together. What's another word for "approval"? "Support"? Money is a form of support. People choose the closet to gain and/or maintain a certain status.

who cares if it's ethical

it's profitable.

plus, if this kid comes out he'll never win; 'why did you wait?' 'what kind of role model are you?' will you let me fuck you now?'

the questions won't stop.

You wave the right to complete privacy when you elect to be a celebrity and today, everyone endeavors to be a celebrity

Staying in the closet is understandable as straight men are grossed out by homosexuality.

[Quote] it's profitable.

I like the cut of your jib.

[quote]What part of 'please don't make this about Shawn' is so hard to understand?

What part of 'how can we talk about this without mentioning its most famous current practitioner?' is so hard to understand?

Check out the fangurl troll at r179

I think we need to give young Shawn a break. He is only about to be 21 next week, he is very young and has been famous since he was a tween. He really hasn't had much time for personal growth or relationships.

It doesn't help that he is a workaholic who is obsessed with his brand, so it makes him seem older than other 20 year olds who just dont care. Right now he is just overly consumed with work and this is the result. He just needs time to find himself.

From a sports perspective. I know an NHL player. He's not only closeted but he has a fake gf. He even says shit like "I'll just fake it till I make it" because at the end of the day he wants to "settle down, get married and have kids", he knows he's gonna stay with her, and she's okay with everything because she enjoys the lifestyle. While in the NBA, NFL, players are more independent from the team, teammates, have their own posse and many are single or leave their WAGs at home or have scandals, NHL teams have "WAGs associations", stuff like WAGs doing charity work, watching games/travelling together, 'playoff jackets', weddings and babies every off-season... There's a lot of pressure to fit in, find your girl, be like everyone else... hockey players have zero sense of individuality and they are encouraged to basically have no desire to stand out or have a personality because "you play for the crest on your chest, not the name on your back", it's a fucking cult. Keeping appearances is everything, you can have fun on the side, cheat, suck dick, drug, pop pills-- it's like hiding broken bones and concussions, they protect themselves then their teams protect them then hockey media protects them- turn a blind eye and we're ready to go. The NHL has this "Hockey is for everyone" campaign where they have to BEG/drag players to participate on because most of them HATE it and want nothing to do with it but it's really just a couple 30-second videos, a PR-redacted two or three-line statement for the press, rainbow tape on their sticks for warmups once a year then they're done with it, through gritted teeth and all. While some genuinely don't want to touch LGBT issues with a ten foot pole, I think most realize that campaign is a fucking joke, who if not them know hockey is NOT for everyone. So, of course even closeted players have to come out and say "the league would accept a gay player", and people would say it's okay- even if they're in the closet with fake gfs, at least they're showing some sort of support, but that's fucked up, a repressed coward saying "we'd be okay with a gay teammate" is laughable, you or your team or the league are clearly not okay with a gay player because you are a gay player and you are saying shit like that while knowing full-well you are never coming out-- "we'd be okay with a gay player because there's never gonna be a gay player". While other leagues have had players coming out - even if they were bums or they played ages ago, they have them - the NHL has ZERO, no one wants to be the first at this point, you have hockey culture, clearly there has to be something bigger, again, the crest on your chest- "can't distract the team", it's a fucking cult, yet having cheaters, wife-beaters, alleged rapists, druggies... is fair game, also you just can't mess with the chemistry and the homoerotic banter by being literally gay, let's keep going to titty bars and spitroasting puck bunnies...

Then another thing, even if people say "it's 2019, who cares" you all know full-well everybody would jump on that story, even if it's a benchwarmer or a jouneyman nobody cared about before that, and like it or not, athletes want people to focus on their game, that one is a valid point, the thing is no one seems to have the balls to come forward and say something like "I don't owe 'straightness' to narrow-minded people and I don't owe being a 'LGBT activist' to queer people. I play sports, I like dudes, in that order. Judge me as a 'role model' by the things I do on the ice, it's you who have to educate your own children, and you can perfectly be an activist without having to force someone else to be, geez can't a man put pucks in a net then go home and suck a dick without people having to feel entitled to tell you what to do with your personal life"... I think just seeing there are gay athletes killing it out there should be enough for gay people- them acknowledging their existence is a good start, we can look up to them by what they do on the game, how much they want to be involved with the community is up to them-- let's save our indignation for homophobes and closet-cases, not dudes who don't want their whole identity to be just "the gay player", let's root for champions (we may or may not have a slight bias for because they happen to be 'family', we all look for things we can relate with one way or another, after all). And seeing an athlete doing their job and giving his all to/for his team regardless of who he goes to bed with afterwards should be enough for the "I don't care about that gay stuff" sports fans, how private the athletes want to keep their life or the "gay stuff" is their decision... It's all wishful thinking, obviously. God, I hate sports, nothing's ever gonna change. And nobody gives a fuck about "ethics".

"I think just seeing there are gay athletes killing it out there should be enough for gay people- them acknowledging their existence is a good start, we can look up to them by what they do on the game, how much they want to be involved with the community is up to them"

How are they going to know there are gay athletes out there if none of them come out?

R193 [quote]It's all wishful thinking, obviously.

It was just a big-ass IF rambling.

More gay male athletes coming out would make a bigger impact than an asexual 20-year old pop idol.

I don’t have an instagram account, so I’m not reading it. I’m also not persuaded by someone who doesn’t know what ethics is.

You have no obligation to disclose, declaim or proclaim your private life to anyone in business. Nobody’s interested. I have never had a customer push for private information and I don’t overshare. That’s easy for me: I’m private by nature.

What’s the next wave here? Proclaim your herpes, HPV and HIV status to ever rando you meet? How about a big tattoo on you forehead for your measurable promiscuity level. Why not admit this is about denying people the option to maintain boundaries in their life and to choose who they share their private lives with.

Even my straight co workers have enough sense to not blag incessantly about their business. This is just childish and nobody does this if they’re serious about a career. Nobody wants to hear about what you do with your private parts.

"You have no obligation to disclose, declaim or proclaim your private life to anyone in business. Nobody’s interested."

Really? Then why do the tabloids and gossip sites make so much money discussing the private lives of celebrities.

"You have no obligation to disclose, declaim or proclaim your private life to anyone in business"

You have the right to lie. You don't have the right to force other people to lie for you.

"How about a big tattoo on you forehead for your measurable promiscuity level"

Trolls like you think this is the same thing as revealing the fact that you fall in love with the same sex.

[quote]It's a matter of privacy. His sex life is none of you business.

Unless he makes it ours by posing for the paps while smooching on someone.

[quote] Unless he makes it ours by posing for the paps while smooching on someone.

How is it be your business? Why do you care so much?

[Quote] Nobody’s interested.

If that were true, certain promotions wouldn't be given to "family men."

R200 Unless you live in Gilead that doesn’t happen. I mean maybe it does if you flounce around like RuPaul at work. Most companies are pretty serious about performance based metrics and aren’t interested in your private life - anybody’s private life.

But if you prance it up like a stump broke rodeo clown, sure. That’s gonna hurt you come promotion time.

[Quote] Even my straight co workers have enough sense to not blag incessantly about their business. This is just childish and nobody does this if they’re serious about a career. Nobody wants to hear about what you do with your private parts.

What about "Did you do anything fun on the weekend?" Let's not pretend like maintaining the closet isn't effortful. You don't have to give people every detail of your life - nobody, straight or gay, does that anyway. But consciously omitting "telling" details... If you have no love life and you don't socialise with other gay people, I guess it's not an issue...

[Quote] But if you prance it up like a stump broke rodeo clown, sure. That’s gonna hurt you come promotion time.

You're telling on yourself with that one.

R203. I’ve done well in my career, and advanced well . I don’t prance but I have no sense of rhythm anyway.

r199, if you don't care why are you posting on a fucking gay gossip board? Get a life and stop posting here if you don't care about gossip.

[quote]It's harder to read him.

Helen Keller can see that he's gay.

Harry Styles is an even bigger star and heartthrob than Shawn and he came out. Shawn should follow suit and quit the spazzy bearding.

Um, no, he didn't come out

[quote]How is it be your business? Why do you care so much?

Why do queens on DL ask dumb questions? Another mystery which will never be solved.

[QUOTE] Um, no, he didn't come out

Yes, he did. Are you the Welp Troll?

'The boys and the girls are here I mess around with them And I'm okay with it.'

He. Is. Out. As. Bi.

Where's the announcement? Where's the interview? Where's the ANYTHING that says Harry Styles is out as bi?

[quote] I loathe the closet and those who choose to hide in it.... however, we have an unfair double standard with actors. We want them to be out, loud, and proud in part because (let's be honest) we desire them and because they are public figures, but they work in an industry that still punishes them for doing so.

That's not a double standard. You are clearly confused by the term.

A song lyric is not a coming out statement. And yes, out people make statements, even if it's only in passing as part of an interview or social media post.

R211, he waved Pride flags every night on his world tour, including in homphobic countries. His song Medicine is his coming out anthem where he sings about messing about the both sexes. He also said 'no labels' when asked about his sexuality.

I used to be the person who says "oh well it's their decision "etc, and " They have ti think of their careers" but no more. It makes me very sngry and it does perpetuate a sad image of gat men having to be concealed. Why are we always the minority that must be discreet? No one else even jews anymore, have to conceal themselves like we do. In reality being an actor or singer shouldn't require you to have a fake persona and be something you aren't. I know it's to appeal to young girls, who will go off you when they get older anyway. It just so depressing.

Harry Styles didn't come out as bi or gay or anything else. And Medicine is most definitely not a coming out anthem, come on. There's one (in numbers: 1) line, where he mentions "messing around with boys and girls" and liking it and the rest of the song is very clearly about taking drugs - which btw would also explain why he's messing around with everyone.

But I agree that he's clearly not afraid of being seen as gay or bi. In fact I guess due to his fashion choices and LGBT support most people automatically assume he's not straight and he seems totally okay with that.

R215 The thing is that no actor or singer really HAS to conceal themselves anymore, otherwise there wouldn't be any successful gay celebrities out there. The closeted ones just choose to do so, because they want to cater to a certain fan base, that only supports them, because they like to daydream about becoming their girlfriend or wife. If they come out, they might less successful and lose some $$. That's why everyone suspects Shawn stays closeted, a large part of his fan base is made up of teenage girls, who want a heartthrob and they're not yet mature enough to realise he's never going to marry them, not even if he were the straightest stud around. So he caters to them and is one of the most in demand young singers right now.

R217. Ok I agree but still think its wrong. He shouldn't need to do that at all. If anything this proves that straight privalage is still alive and kicking.

No matter if it's a privilege to be able to easily obtain dollars from a bunch of teenage fan girls that fancy themselves your next spouse, it's just something that won't and can't change, because the main marketing factor is sexual attraction and daydreams. It's like saying it's unfair that only pretty, young, likeable boys like Shawn are able to tap into that money well and not 50 year old, butt ugly former janitors, who might make exactly the same music as Shawn Mendes.

Musicians and to some extent even actors always sell an image of themselves as part of the package. Some musicians are able to rely less on that image, others more. For example Adele has an exceptional voice and great songs, so it doesn't really matter that she's fat. She still sells records to basically everyone. Someone like Ariana Grande however - despite having a good voice too - has a very different image. I doubt she'd have become as popular if she had Adele's weight. Apparently there are differences between the two, but who is privileged here? Ariana because she's pretty? Or Adele, because she doesn't have to care as much about her appearance and body shape?

Shawn Mendes is an annoying closeted queen.

R219 You have me thinking... Concerning Grande, I suppose some do have a different image it is hard to explain. I'm still shocked and appalled she's been chosen to be the new "face" of Givenchy. I guess you can lick a doughnut and get away with it, but if you're male you cannot lick a dick. A general thought about office or professional work situations I think it comes down to some of us have more of our identities tied up with pur sex lives. Some have no partner, only rando hook-ups, or no sex life to soeak of whatsoever, so it's no sacrifice for them to be very private, whereas others it's a big part of their lives. I recall a smart lesbian who pisted a year or so back about the matter stating she was over all the personal life chit-chat, and would rather focus on the work at hand. I can really relate to that. If you become friends with a colleague, have lunch together often, drinks after work or many working dinners, that's a different type of relationship in my book. I'm not (never have been) closeted, but am very private when it concerns that portion of my life. I do not have a partner, and find it inappropriate to talk about what I get up to sexually. I have enough close friends to share and discuss that with if I feel the need. Let's face reality, many do "over-share". I find it unprofessional. I'm retired now, but have never worked anywhere I wanted to let everyone know about my personal life, even when I did have a BF.

Say you're offered 100 million bucks to play straight for five years.

Most of us would be 'where do I sign up?' and 'here's my banking info...direct deposit works just fine...'

I was having lunch with a pal and an acquaintance of his joined us...the acquaintance makes some homophobic quip; I ignore.

Later, it comes up in conversation I'm gay.

"Oh. I didn't know you were gay."

"Well...now you do."

"You don't look or act...I mean...I didn't know."

"Yeah."

It was real awkward after that but not on my end.

r222, no one is getting paid $100 million dollars to play straight.