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In one year, 3,395 people were arrested in the UK for social media posts

The number is likely to be higher since 13 forces refused to hand over data.

WTH has happened to the UK?

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by Anonymousreply 144July 29, 2019 2:00 AM

You can be arrested in the UK for being an Internet Troll?

by Anonymousreply 1July 20, 2019 7:44 PM

Paywall.

by Anonymousreply 2July 20, 2019 7:46 PM

Apparently you can, r1. I find this fact really scary. I always thought the UK had free speech?

by Anonymousreply 3July 20, 2019 7:47 PM

And yet Brits claim that they too have “freedom of speech”. Nope.

by Anonymousreply 4July 20, 2019 7:48 PM

Nope, they no constitutional right to free speech as we do.

by Anonymousreply 5July 20, 2019 7:48 PM

It's a race to the bottom between Alabama and the UK.

by Anonymousreply 6July 20, 2019 7:51 PM

Are the Megstans reporting people who dislike their Queen to the police? Wouldn't put it past them.

by Anonymousreply 7July 20, 2019 7:53 PM

I'd suspect a lot of those being arrested for social media posts are people outing people in court cases judges have decided shouldn't be named.

Also saying they were 'arrested for social media posts' is very vague. They'd have had to have engaged in serious targeted abuse and/or have had a lot of complaints about them to warrant arrest.

by Anonymousreply 8July 20, 2019 7:59 PM

Didn't we hear reports of people getting arrested for being Anti-trans and reporting Muslim arrivals. Those thread must still be searchable. They were from 2017

by Anonymousreply 9July 20, 2019 8:02 PM

I bet a lot of the arrests are people threatening to harm others.

by Anonymousreply 10July 20, 2019 8:02 PM

The cops won't show up if your house has been burgled and trashed beyond recognition but they're all over you if you tweet something negative about a terrorist or pedophile or whatever.

by Anonymousreply 11July 20, 2019 8:07 PM

Here's the article: "Nine people a day are being arrested for posting allegedly offensive messages online as police step up their campaign to combat social media hate speech.

More than 3,300 people were detained and questioned last year over so-called trolling on social media and other online forums, a rise of nearly 50 per cent in two years, according to figures obtained by The Times.

About half of the investigations were dropped before prosecutions were brought, however, leading to criticism from civil liberties campaigners that the authorities are over-policing the internet and threatening free speech.

Arrests are expected to rise after Amber Rudd, the home secretary, last week announced a national police hub to crack down on hateful material online. Freedom of information requests have revealed that 3,395 people across 29 forces were arrested last year under section 127 of the Communications Act 2003, which makes it illegal to intentionally “cause annoyance, inconvenience or needless anxiety to another” with online posts.

It is a rise of nearly 50 per cent since 2014, when there were 2,315 arrests, and an increase of 23 per cent since 2015 when there were 2,755 arrests. The total number of arrests under the act, which also criminalises public online messages that are “grossly offensive or of an indecent, obscene or menacing character”, is likely to be much higher because the request for data was rejected by 13 forces and two did not provide adequate information.

Data from two of the UK’s largest police forces show big increases. The Met detained 867 people last year, up by 53 per cent from 2014. West Midlands police arrested 635 people, an increase of 877 per cent since 2014 when there were 65 arrests. The number of cases reaching the courts has remained stable. Last year 1,696 people were charged and 1,399 convicted.

The Police Federation said officers lacked the training to take investigations beyond an “online reading exercise”. Simon Kempton, the federation’s spokesman for cybercrime, said more needed to be done to improve online policing and blamed stretched resources for officers’ limited knowledge. The National Police Chiefs Council (NPCC) defended the rising arrest figures, saying officers had improved their ability to combat crime online as it continues to grow. Stephen Kavanagh, of the NPCC’s digital intelligence unit, said forces had adapted well to the “changing nature of harm in our society”. Jodie Ginsberg, chief executive of Index on Censorship, a free speech campaign group, accused police of unnecessarily hunting internet trolls. She said: “These figures bear out what we’ve been saying: that police are wasting more and more time investigating people for comments online that are offensive but not criminal.”

Jim Killock, executive director of the Open Rights Group, said the Crown Prosecution Service emphasised section 127 was to be used only in “extreme circumstances”. “But the problem is ‘grossly offensive’ is not something you should normally be prosecuted for. It’s not showing harm to other people. It’s not showing that somebody is being harassed . . . attacked or threatened.”

by Anonymousreply 12July 20, 2019 8:07 PM

Some of the more infamous examples:

1. Woman guilty of "racist" Snap Dog rap lyric Instagram post

A teenager who posted rap lyrics which included racist language on Instagram has been found guilty of sending a grossly offensive message.

Chelsea Russell, 19, from Liverpool posted the lyric from Snap Dogg's I'm Trippin' to pay tribute to a boy who died in a road crash, a court heard.

Russell argued it was not offensive, but was handed a community order.

Prosecutors said her sentence was increased from a fine to a community order "as it was a hate crime".

She was charged after Merseyside Police were anonymously sent a screenshot of her update.

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by Anonymousreply 13July 20, 2019 8:08 PM

2. Man interrogated by police for liking a ‘transphobic’ tweet

A man said he was questioned by police for over 30 minutes after he liked a tweet that appears to mock the transgender community. Harry Miller, who believes ‘trans women are not women’, says the formal probe by Humberside Police was into his ‘thinking’ and his reasons for liking the limerick on Twitter. The limerick referred to trans women as ‘stupid’ and made comments about vaginas and ‘synthetic’ hormones.

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by Anonymousreply 14July 20, 2019 8:11 PM

Interesting to note that back in 2014, most Guardian readers commenting on this article are against jailing people for being rude on social media.

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by Anonymousreply 15July 20, 2019 8:14 PM

[quote]Are the Megstans reporting people who dislike their Queen to the police?

Last week I had my entire posting history (no matter the topic) removed by the powers that be at The Mirror because of ONE negative (but not nasty) comment I made about Meghan. None of my comments since are published.

by Anonymousreply 16July 20, 2019 8:52 PM

R16 Somebody get Amnesty International on the line!

by Anonymousreply 17July 20, 2019 8:54 PM

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

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by Anonymousreply 18July 20, 2019 8:55 PM

Seriously, r16? One would think the Mirror would be fine with comments that are critical of the Royal Family. Hell, they've only been gleefully publishing calls for the monarchy to be disbanded for decades now.

by Anonymousreply 19July 20, 2019 8:56 PM

It would be funny if they arrested homophobes, because they're obviously turning a blind eye to it.

They'd have to arrest half the population.

by Anonymousreply 20July 20, 2019 8:57 PM

Not just the UK, but Europe as well.

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by Anonymousreply 21July 20, 2019 8:59 PM

R18: Daily Fail. Automatically don't care.

by Anonymousreply 22July 20, 2019 8:59 PM

R18 That's one case. That doesn't mean a lot of the arrests are contempt of court cases.

by Anonymousreply 23July 20, 2019 8:59 PM

R19 It was all very strange. A few hours after posting I realized it was no longer in my posting history and I thought "oh, someone complained so they removed it" and didn't think much of it then the next day I discovered ALL my comments had been removed and no new comments will publish. I don't bother even visiting the site anymore. Fuck 'em. I'll read The Sun instead.

by Anonymousreply 24July 20, 2019 8:59 PM

[quote]Apparently you can, [R1]. I find this fact really scary. I always thought the UK had free speech?

The UK has no first amendment guarantee. They have extremely strict libel laws and hate speech comes with a prison sentence. The entire country is under CCTV surveillance and the police routinely call people at home over their social media posts to check in and, I quote, "make sure they're thinking okay." It's an Orwellian nanny sate. Acid attacks are through the roof and everyone is repressed. Porn is now automatically banned from the internet in Britain. You must put in your identification and request to be allowed to see it.

by Anonymousreply 25July 20, 2019 9:00 PM

As bad as the US is, Americans should be thanking their lucky stars they live there. In many European countries you're presumed guilty until proven innocent. It goes back to Napoleon.

by Anonymousreply 26July 20, 2019 9:02 PM

How about this, R23? It involves DL fave Tom Daley.

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by Anonymousreply 27July 20, 2019 9:02 PM
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by Anonymousreply 28July 20, 2019 9:04 PM

R22 Same story, different website. Did it happen now, dear?

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by Anonymousreply 29July 20, 2019 9:05 PM

The misgendering arrests are especially insane.

by Anonymousreply 30July 20, 2019 9:06 PM

This was discussed here on DL at the time.

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by Anonymousreply 31July 20, 2019 9:07 PM

[quote]U.K. Police Urge Citizens To Report Neighbors For ‘Offensive Or Insulting’ Speech

Sounds familiar.

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by Anonymousreply 32July 20, 2019 9:08 PM

Boo fucking hoo, racists crying over the fact that they can't post their racist garbage without any consequences.

Let me go look for the world's tiniest violin.

by Anonymousreply 33July 20, 2019 9:09 PM

It's not just racist getting arrested. Apparently, anyone who goes against the grain.

by Anonymousreply 34July 20, 2019 9:10 PM

Holy shit - reporting one's neighbors' thought and speech crimes was a huge part of living under Communist dictatorships. I can't believe the UK is doing this.

by Anonymousreply 35July 20, 2019 9:10 PM

You people do realise that the arrests for misgendering etc are only newsworthy because they're so fucking rare, right?

They're not making up the majority of these hate crime arrests. The majority of those arrests are for continued targeted abuse and harassment which would result in arrest in most countries. The UK isn't a 'nanny state' and the entire country isn't under CCTV surveillance. Where the fuck would we get the resources for that?

Please get your news from somewhere other than YouTube. Oh and btw, the porn ban was never implemented.

by Anonymousreply 36July 20, 2019 9:12 PM

R29: So you replace the hateful right wing Daily Mail with the Epoch Times, a Chinese American right wing rag that supports Donald Trump and far right German racists. Owned by the anti-gay Falun Gong cult. You're not helping your case at all, DEAR. And I didn't say it didn't happen. I just don't care. Especially if anti-gay right wing hate media is promoting this, usually as part of an anti-trans agenda. Got it, dear?

by Anonymousreply 37July 20, 2019 9:13 PM

R37 How the fuck am I supposed to know whether some Chinese newspaper is left wing or right wing? Why don't you provide me with a list of newspapers from around the world that you WON'T automatically reject? It'd take a lot less time.

by Anonymousreply 38July 20, 2019 9:16 PM

R36 turn a blind eye, Evita. Turn a blind eye.

by Anonymousreply 39July 20, 2019 9:16 PM

r36, even one person being arrested for 'misgendering' is bullshit. And I say this as someone who's brother's teenaged kid came out as transgender last year.

Also, as of 2011 - nearly 10 years ago, the UK had one cctv camera for every 32 people in the country. If you don't think that's a lot, you're insane. And obviously that number will have risen in the last 8 years.

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by Anonymousreply 40July 20, 2019 9:19 PM

R37 Okay. Different woman, same fucking story. This from the BBC. Is that left wing enough for you, dear?

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by Anonymousreply 41July 20, 2019 9:19 PM

R38: See, if this was a real issue, you'd find a REAL news source, not every shitty link that confirms your agenda, which is becoming quite obvious here. I noticed the Guardian, the Times of New York or London, The Globe and Mail, the Observer, Le Monde, Boston Globe, The Independent, none of these are linked to. Just one right wing British tabloid and one right wing vanity paper. Obviously, this is not a real issue, just something the right uses its outlets to whine about.

by Anonymousreply 42July 20, 2019 9:22 PM

r36 You people do realise that the arrests for being jewish in Germany circa 1935 are only newsworthy because they're so fucking rare, right?

They're not making up the majority of these hate crime arrests. The majority of those arrests are for continued purposeful diluting of aryan blood which would result in arrest in most countries. Germany isn't a 'nanny state' and the entire country isn't under SS surveillance. Where the fuck would we get the resources for that?

Please get your news from somewhere other than non reich-approved sources. Oh and btw, the gay and gypsy ban was never implemented.

by Anonymousreply 43July 20, 2019 9:24 PM

R42 Oh a "REAL" news source. You mean one that confirms YOUR agenda? Got it.

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by Anonymousreply 44July 20, 2019 9:25 PM

R41: I'm not asking for Left Wing, BITCH, I'm asking for real news. BBC is the first real link you've provided.

And from that link: "It's not just the misgendering, it's actually the context that she puts it in to, and that she calls me a child abuser."

So there's more to the story than just wrong pronouns here.

by Anonymousreply 45July 20, 2019 9:35 PM

r42, here is an article from one of your "approved sources" saying that the UK government is shutting down "progressive dissent"

So no, it's not just "right wing trolls", you censorious asshole. And even if it were, censorship is bullshit. I believe in letting people I disagree with speak. At least then I know who to avoid. I want free speech for myself, and so I would be a hypocrite if I then said others should be censored.

by Anonymousreply 46July 20, 2019 9:35 PM

Here's the article

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by Anonymousreply 47July 20, 2019 9:36 PM

BBC: A British woman is facing two years in jail in Dubai for calling her ex-husband's new wife a "horse" on Facebook.

The UK is no better than the United Arab Emirates nowadays. Good to know.

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by Anonymousreply 48July 20, 2019 9:49 PM

r3 We do have free speech but there are still red lines that cant be crossed like threats and abuse.

by Anonymousreply 49July 20, 2019 9:55 PM

r47 Deary me that is about the law in Dubai NOT the UK.

by Anonymousreply 50July 20, 2019 9:56 PM

R49, I don't think the term "Free Speech" means what you think it means...

by Anonymousreply 51July 20, 2019 9:57 PM

Please define it then r51 because I bet it isnt as easy to define and defend as you think.

by Anonymousreply 52July 20, 2019 9:59 PM

R50: But it's the same! What is the world coming to when you can't be free to harass people on social media and call them child abusers along with other slurs? That's not a society Bubbles wants to live in!

by Anonymousreply 53July 20, 2019 10:00 PM

Well you defined it all speech aside from threats and "abuse".

"Abuse"?

Sorry but rude, offensive remarks are very much included within 'free speech', and until 2013, the UK recognized that.

Threats and incitement are entirely separate as they are words connected to actions.

by Anonymousreply 54July 20, 2019 10:03 PM

R53 Referring to someone with a cock between their legs as a man is not "harassment" or "abuse". It's reality.

by Anonymousreply 55July 20, 2019 10:03 PM

r54 Just because something is difficult to define doesn't mean we should give up trying to have any rules around it.

by Anonymousreply 56July 20, 2019 10:20 PM

Any proposed regulationmust be underpinned by clear and unambiguous evidence, both of the likely scale of the “harm” and the measures’ likely effectiveness.

Index remains concerned at the government’s proposed duty of care as a regulatory approach, because it could lead to legal expression being censored as a “harm”.

The government’s white paper failed to accurately define “harmful” content, which risks sweeping up legal speech, including political expression, expressions of religious views, expressions of sexuality and gender, and expression advocating on behalf of minority groups that are fundamental to effective democratic functions.

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by Anonymousreply 57July 20, 2019 10:23 PM

And the truth comes out about what this is truly about. Anti-trans bigoted whining. Under the guise of freeze peach.

Troll thread now closed.

by Anonymousreply 58July 20, 2019 10:33 PM

[quote]Anti-trans bigoted whining

AKA Pro-reality.

[quote]Troll thread now closed.

Looks pretty open to me, troll. Another of your fantasies destroyed. How dreadful.

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by Anonymousreply 59July 20, 2019 10:55 PM

I love Trigglypuff. She is the living embodiment of so much that has gone insane lately.

by Anonymousreply 60July 20, 2019 11:28 PM

This short article contains a lot of detail on the legislation, the arrests, the convictions, etc etc

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by Anonymousreply 61July 21, 2019 12:58 AM

Europe went through absolutely devastating world wars because of hate speech.

It is very wary of it ever happening again

by Anonymousreply 62July 21, 2019 1:02 AM

[quote]What is the world coming to when you can't be free to harass people on social media and call them child abusers along with other slurs

There's a huge difference between accusing someone of a crime and stating your opinion about something.

by Anonymousreply 63July 21, 2019 1:03 AM

As an American, I used to be somewhat envious of how progressive the British were when it came to social issues. I'm very much into British pop culture and in many ways thought that the 80's scene paved the way for many progressive artists to come out in the US in the years since. But reading that it comes with all this baggage, I no longer want any part of it.

by Anonymousreply 64July 21, 2019 1:06 AM

[quote] 127 of the Communications Act 2003, which makes it illegal to intentionally “cause annoyance, inconvenience or needless anxiety to another” with online posts.

Lol. That describes 90% of the posts on Datalounge.

by Anonymousreply 65July 21, 2019 1:17 AM

I know people hate Katie Hopkins. Who gives a shit? My point in posting this is to show the absurdity of life in modern day Britain. Katie calls a woman on the stage fat and the fat bitch calls it a hate crime and calls the police!

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by Anonymousreply 66July 21, 2019 1:21 AM

YouTube just announced recently that if the British gov’t imposes more censorship and more requirements on the company to check each and every video for ‘offensive content’ - then YT will leave the UK.

So the list of countries where YT will not be available will include: China, North Korea and the UK.

by Anonymousreply 67July 21, 2019 2:13 AM

[quote]So the list of countries where YT will not be available will include: China, North Korea and the UK.

I think that says it all.

by Anonymousreply 68July 21, 2019 2:43 AM

r67 That's fine, Youtube is fascist anyway.

by Anonymousreply 69July 21, 2019 2:57 AM

Same thing in France, especially those who criticize president Macron and his wife. Since the beginning of the yellow vests social movement, 12000 have been arrested, 800 are in jail, 13 are dead, and more than 100 have lost a limb due to police brutality. This is the blueprint for the whole of Europe and Canada. Such a situation has never been seen in France.

by Anonymousreply 70July 21, 2019 3:24 AM

This is America's future, as people want the U.S. to be more like Europe instead of being a refuge for people fleeing European ways.

by Anonymousreply 71July 21, 2019 4:03 AM

[quote]This is America's future, as people want the U.S. to be more like Europe instead of being a refuge for people fleeing European ways.

It will never be the US because Americans have the first amendment. This issue is settled. The US has the strictest policies when it comes to free speech.

by Anonymousreply 72July 21, 2019 4:10 AM

R70 wasn't the Nazi invasion maybe a little rougher than these "never seen before" atrocities under Macron. I'm sure Napoleon was very gentle with dissidents. Robespierre ring a bell. It's almost as if France invented strong-arming by those in power. Maybe save the sunny, white-washed version of France for postcards.

by Anonymousreply 73July 21, 2019 4:23 AM

r70 I can't believe the lack of reporting on the French situation. I've heard things were bad and that many people had lost eyes from being shot with rubber bullets by the police, but I'd not heard the rest of what you are mentioning. That is really awful.

by Anonymousreply 74July 21, 2019 4:24 AM

[quote]Europe went through absolutely devastating world wars because of hate speech. It is very wary of it ever happening again

Rubbish! Europe is very selective about what it considers "hate speech".

Negative comments about Muslims? Definitely "hate speech".

Negative comments about Africans? Definitely "hate speech".

Negative comments about Jews? Go for it! That's what they're here for.

by Anonymousreply 75July 21, 2019 4:32 AM

r74 It does sound unbelievable, which is why I'm skeptical it's true. r70 should link to a source for those claims. I'm not saying that it's impossible that what r70 is claiming is actually occurring, and I'm NOT like the moron upthread who refuses every source that disagrees with him, but if the police in france have really de-limbed 100+ people during these protests (or in general, really), I feel like that would be bigger news and that I'd have heard of it. I understand that there have been many violent protests and that Macron is unpopular, but the kind of violence described in r70 needs a source.

by Anonymousreply 76July 21, 2019 4:51 AM

omg, don't they have better things to do like investigating stabbings and arresting people for those crimes?

I'm shocked.

by Anonymousreply 77July 21, 2019 5:33 AM

Fair enough, r76. I think that's reasonable, except that the only reason I even got to know about the Yellow Vests was only because my friend lives overlooking the Arc de Triomph. He's the one who originally was telling me what was going on. He posts shocking videos on Facebook fairly regularly of police absolutely decimating people just walking through the streets.

Also, these protests are not only violent (from the police end), but seem like they've been happening since before Christmas, and still no major outlet is talking about them - and I'm sorry but I find that really strange.

by Anonymousreply 78July 21, 2019 10:35 AM

R78 You sound a bit mentally under-developed. The Yellow Vest movement has been going on for ages and has been covered by every major news outlet in the world.

If the French police had been violent to the point that peoples' arms and legs were amputated on a regular basis do you think that would have been kept silent? You don't know much about French society if you think that.

So you've not seen any mention of the Yellow Vests on your local news? OMG that must be a complete news blackout!

You're an idiot.

by Anonymousreply 79July 21, 2019 10:49 AM

The UK is under far far Left assault. There I said. I don't care, and I say this as a liberal. It's so completely beyond woke. Britain used to have balls and didn't do emotions. Now that's all they do. Everything is triggering. I always laugh at the Right wingers in America who make such a big deal about SJWs ( and they are disgraceful), but their heads would explode if they had to live in the UK. The government caters to these idiots. The country lets murders walk free and gives them a new identity and protection. America goes too far to the Right in the way they handle social issues and the UK goes way too far Left. Both have ended up in fascist states. God forbid you're white, Christian, or a Jew in the UK.

by Anonymousreply 80July 21, 2019 10:58 AM

R45 The BBC is "Left Wing, BITCH"

by Anonymousreply 81July 21, 2019 11:14 AM

Do I, r79?

How distressing.

Since you're so much better informed than me, could you please post links to the stories to which you refer?

I am so stupid that I haven't seen them, and after all, I am only attempting to educate myself on the matter. so I am sure that, as my better, you will be decent enough to provide your evidence.

by Anonymousreply 82July 21, 2019 11:19 AM

r80 is on point.

by Anonymousreply 83July 21, 2019 11:22 AM

Also, r79, please address the question of how many Yellow Vests have had their eyes put out by the French police.

You are, after all, the expert, so I will defer to your expertise, if you are willing to share it with us.

by Anonymousreply 84July 21, 2019 11:29 AM

[quote] The UK is under far far Left assault.

I don't even know what the heck the UK is anymore or how to define it, R80. We need to come up with a new term for it. Because it's not even "Left" anymore. Because "Left" historically meant pro-workers' rights, pro-trade union, pro-free (subsidised) higher education, etc - basically a party for more Blue-Collar Workers.

But the UK has head-first embraced Globalism and went overboard with unvetted, unassimilated Multiculturalism - which is AGAINST the economic and safety interests of Blue-Collar Workers. Globalism and Multiculturalism benefit the rich Upper Class and foreigners more than the domestic middle-class and lower-class workers. Because the Upper Class profit from Globalism: by employing foreigners for cheaper wages, and not having to personally deal with any negative fallouts from Globalism's multiculturalism (because the Upper Class themselves live in pristine, guarded, gated white communities).

So it's not even the "Left" anymore - it's a different category altogether: "Globalist".

That's why I always find it funny when some people call this "socialism light or socialism-adjacent". Because it's actually getting further and further from socialism. "Socialism" was more focused on prioritising the interests of specifically domestic blue-collars (to the detriment of the more well-to-do upper bourgeois class). Whereas the UK's current priorities seem to be the complete opposite: prioritising rich bourgeois and foreign interests over lower-class domestic workers' interests.

by Anonymousreply 85July 21, 2019 11:33 AM

Well said, r85.

by Anonymousreply 86July 21, 2019 11:37 AM

For R76

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by Anonymousreply 87July 21, 2019 1:12 PM

For R84 who seems really eager to insist there's nothing to see here while dancing wildly in front of an exploding cafe.

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by Anonymousreply 88July 21, 2019 1:17 PM

More for R84

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by Anonymousreply 89July 21, 2019 1:18 PM

[quote]So you've not seen any mention of the Yellow Vests on your local news? OMG that must be a complete news blackout!

After Rotherham and Cologne, this shit shouldn’t surprise anyone. Or are you forgetting the total media blackout on those stories?

by Anonymousreply 90July 21, 2019 1:30 PM

What R80 said. Also, if politicians, party members and law enforcement had any integrity and courage, they'd ban the islamic foundational texts, the most hate-filled, violence-inciting pieces of crap ever written.

by Anonymousreply 91July 21, 2019 8:31 PM

Fortunately for the US, they don't have to wonder what the natural conclusion of AOC's policies are when they already have plenty of evidence. Living under a Trump administration seems cozy in comparison.

by Anonymousreply 92July 21, 2019 8:40 PM

I've never understood how people confuse the right to free speech with understanding that that free speech is not also free from consequences. Does the UK have a right to free speech in law as the USA does? Yes, it has (HRA 1998 until the far right rescind it), but that right also makes mention that the right is subject to the test of what is acceptable in a democratic society. Free speech laws are there to ensure that citizens (or subjects in the UK) have the right to say anything they want that is free from political of government censor. Can I, for example, constantly harass someone verbally and expect there to be no repercussions? No, you're expected to be a grown up and be accountable for what you say. How some on this thread think that is different in the USA I'm not sure, your first amendment does not free you from the consequences of what you say in my limited understanding. The picture that is painted of the UK by the far right is not my experience of being a resident my entire life, sure there are examples that can be quoted to try and prove a point, but as has been said, there are rare examples however the everyday life of the average Briton is poles apart from that portrayed.

I'm expecting a load of retorts of "lefty" or "neo liberal" (always thought liberal was better than being illiberal but hey) at this post but that's to be expected as even the right in the UK are left of the left in the USA, always thought that weird for a country with the immigrant origins of the USA.

by Anonymousreply 93July 21, 2019 8:56 PM

[quote] How some on this thread think that is different in the USA I'm not sure

R93, any transatlantic lawyer can tell you that US laws are comparatively more permissive, and UK laws (especially new laws recently introduced) are more restrictive - in terms of what statements fall under the protection of "free speech". Britain's legislative regime is much closer to a nanny-state. Now, there are upsides and downsides to this. If you're being harassed by speech - the UK model offers you more protection. But if you're being intentionally silenced, targeted or barraged with nuisance claims over trivialities (also a type of harassment really) - the US model offers you more freedom and counter-protection.

[quote] not my experience of being a resident my entire life, sure there are examples that can be quoted to try and prove a point, but as has been said, there are rare examples however the everyday life of the average Briton is poles apart from that portrayed.

The examples coming from the UK are actually not that rare now. They now regularly make international news. There’s a disconcerting INCREASE in attempts at censorship, especially of trivial speech (and especially if one looks at the legislation and regulations being passed). And, in some aspects, it has reached abusrd, Orwellian circus levels where the politicians that master-minded and pushed for these restrictive speech regulations and invasive, overzealous police investigations - have [italic]themselves[/italic] then been accused and investigated by the POLICE for harmful speech [italic]under their OWN regulations[/italic]! Like Boomerang Karma.

Here’s an example at high-level that sent some of the first shock waves:

[quote] The Guardian, 2017: “A speech about foreign workers given BY the Home Secretary [!] [i.e. Minister of the Interior, for non-UK DLers], Amber Rudd, at the Tory party conference … [bold]has been officially recorded as a “Hate Incident” [!], Police have confirmed[/bold]. Rudd said in her speech that she wanted to make it harder for British companies to employ migrants and to ensure foreign workers “were not taking jobs British workers could do”.

[quote] Media coverage of the speech so alarmed an Oxford University physics professor, Joshua Silver, that he complained to the Police. “I felt politicians have been using hate speech to turn Britons against foreigners, and I thought that is probably not lawful,” he told the Times.

[quote] His complaint was dealt with by West Midlands Police as the Tory conference took place in Birmingham. [bold]National Police Reporting Rules introduced in 2014 and endorsed by Rudd HERSELF require ALL complaints of “hate crime incidents” to be recorded “REGARDLESS of whether or not those making the complaint are the victim, and irrespective of whether or not there is ANY evidence to identify the hate crime incident”.[/bold]

The whole circus ended with the police concluding that the speech was not a “hate crime”, but (because of the over-zealous rules that Rudd herself championed) [bold]“the matter has been recorded in line with the National Police Chiefs’ Council manual as a “non-crime HATE INCIDENT” ,” the force [confirmed][/bold].”

by Anonymousreply 94July 21, 2019 10:55 PM

Moreover, if you look at these new regulations for reporting and investigating alleged “hate incidents” - you’ll see that the definition of what falls under them is disconcertingly wide: “throwing rubbish into a garden”, “verbal abuse like name-calling and offensive JOKES”, etc (about 5 topics listed in the guidance). And you don’t even have to be the target of anything yourself, you can simply choose to be offended [italic]for someone else entirely[/italic] - and sic the police on a person. The guidance also stipulates that “if you [italic]believe[/italic] something is a “hate incident”, it [italic]should[/italic] be recorded as such by the person you are reporting it to”. But that is such accusatory-prejudiced guidance: Why record something in police files as a “hate incident” if no evidence was found to support a “hate crime”? It should be recorded as an “unproven allegation”, but the words “hate incident” carry a very pro-accusor sentiment. This is NOT how a democracy works.

And, unsurprisingly, given how badly and widely these wishy-washy regulations were drafted - they have already been misused for siccing the police on various people over trivial jokes and speeches which might be ’offensive’ or ‘offensively honest’ to some but are not criminal. It’s turned into its own inverted form of harassment and intimidation, where you send an overzealous police force to someone’s doorstep or even work to intimidate them over their speech and tell them they will be recorded for a “hate incident” (even if they didn’t do ANYTHING illegal). Many people (who are not lawyers) will not fully grasp the semantic-legal difference between a “hate incident” and a “hate crime” and so can easily be terrified/bullied into silence & speech censorship after such a cop visit.

by Anonymousreply 95July 21, 2019 10:56 PM

R94 R95 This is some scary shit. I already see the wheels spinning in the US, especially with MSNBC. Hopefully I'll be near the grave when this starts happening over here.

by Anonymousreply 96July 21, 2019 11:01 PM

I wish Muriel would scrub Bubble McGee's posting history and ban her from the DataLounge.

by Anonymousreply 97July 21, 2019 11:02 PM

Marine Le Pen ordered to stand trial (after being forced to undergo a psychological exam) for tweeting about ISIS .

R97 Unfortunately for you we're not in the UK.

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by Anonymousreply 98July 21, 2019 11:03 PM

They don't have the freedom of speech. FFS, they don't even have a completely free press. The government can order the media to kill a story and not report on an event or a person. Nice. Right? Gotta love that

If you scream at someone in England, you can be arrested for assault

This is where snowflakes were invented

by Anonymousreply 99July 21, 2019 11:13 PM

And England has a completely secret court system that is totally separate from their regular court system.

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by Anonymousreply 100July 21, 2019 11:15 PM

The UK media is not allowed to write about David Furnish's boy toys and prostitutes even though all of the tabloids here had the pics and receipts.

by Anonymousreply 101July 21, 2019 11:15 PM

Britain signed its own death warrant when it allowed the people from its imperial dominions come to the centre of the empire.

These people are destroying it.

by Anonymousreply 102July 21, 2019 11:18 PM

It's in England and Wales. Scotland wants no part of this shit

This article will fucking SHOCK you

This began in 2013 with the case of Wanda Maddocks, imprisoned for rescuing her aged father from a care home where she found he was being badly treated.

Another case was the pregnant Italian visitor to Britain who had been secretly subjected to a Caesarian operation so her baby could be handed over to social workers.

the case of Kathleen Danby, a 72-year old grandmother, sentenced to prison for being caught on CCTV hugging her granddaughter in a car park. The two had been forbidden by the court to meet, although the girl had run away from care homes 200 times because her granny was the person in the world she most wanted to see. The latest case has elements of all these others

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by Anonymousreply 103July 21, 2019 11:19 PM

R97 I like Bubbles McGee.

by Anonymousreply 104July 21, 2019 11:20 PM

The secret courts started out being for things like terrorism. But now they use them on regular citizens, frequently. Are they are absolutely fucked up

by Anonymousreply 105July 21, 2019 11:28 PM

She's really bitchy, R104.

by Anonymousreply 106July 21, 2019 11:30 PM

[quote] I'm not sure, your first amendment does not free you from the consequences of what you say in my limited understanding.

no one said it did. There are always consequences for what you say. They may be good, neutral or bad, but we can at least say whatever we want (as long as it's not a threat) without being charged by the police

You can see that's a big difference. Can't you?

by Anonymousreply 107July 21, 2019 11:30 PM

Yes, R96, Britain's Home Secretary being slapped with a "hate incident" file record over a regular, non-criminal policy speech and under her own endorsed "Orwellian speech police" law is deeply ironic. It would have been tremendously funny - if it weren't so scary.

Because, as she was one of the top people steering the country, her ruling party obviously prevented the police from invading her life too much over her "hate incident". (Though it did cause her public embarrassment and some bad PR.) But the scary part is if she wasn't a protected official, but a regular person - this overboard policing and still logging free speech as "hate incident" based on a meritless claim can seriously upend a regular citizen's life.

by Anonymousreply 108July 22, 2019 12:12 AM

So much nonsense on this thread, r26 in particular.

by Anonymousreply 109July 22, 2019 12:37 AM

Say what you want about USA. It's the best country in this world because of the First amendment. Many, many countries have censorship of the press...

I can't believe the UK (far far left assault)...is this why they gonna have a black female OO7 now? so wrong and stupid.

by Anonymousreply 110July 22, 2019 2:34 AM

R110 I saw that headline about a 'black female OO7' but I didn't believe it.

by Anonymousreply 111July 22, 2019 2:37 AM

least gays can get married in the uk, suck on dat usa.

by Anonymousreply 112July 22, 2019 2:41 AM

R112 Gays can get married here in the US too, fuckwit.

by Anonymousreply 113July 22, 2019 2:43 AM

Really even in backwards abortion hating, civil rights-abusing, some neo nazi's are good guys North Carolina. "Send bubblemcgee back".

by Anonymousreply 114July 22, 2019 2:49 AM

[quote]Same-sex marriages are licensed in and recognized by all U.S. states and District of Columbia, as well as all U.S. territories except American Samoa.

Yeah. Also in North Carolina. Maybe educate yourself because you cunt off on an entire country. You might embarrass yourself less.

by Anonymousreply 115July 22, 2019 2:51 AM

Well, it took the US long enough. Now if you just stop with the whole blatant racism thing.

by Anonymousreply 116July 22, 2019 2:54 AM

[quote]I wish Muriel would scrub Bubble McGee's posting history and ban her from the DataLounge.

It's Sausages McGee, formerly AYB, and he's been a far-right troll on here for nearly a decade. He won't get perma banned any more than Erna will. AYB was a regular poster for the most part until Obama ran for president, and that's when he went completely insane.

by Anonymousreply 117July 22, 2019 2:54 AM

[quote]It's Sausages McGee, formerly AYB, and he's been a far-right troll on here for nearly a decade.

Wrong. I have no idea who the fuck you're screeching about and I haven't been here for five years much less since 2008. But if I get redtagged into oblivion we'll all know it was you because you're the only one triggered by me. My WWs speak for themselves. You're outnumbered.

by Anonymousreply 118July 22, 2019 3:15 AM

I applaud you, Bubbles!

by Anonymousreply 119July 22, 2019 3:51 AM

[quote] Say what you want about USA. It's the best country in this world because of the First amendment. Many, many countries have censorship of the press...

It’s the best country [italic]in terms of[/italic] free speech, not because of it, R110. Free speech is no asset if every citizen & migrant doesn’t have e.g. guaranteed basic healthcare at all times.

Can’t speak easily if one’s tongue doesn’t work; can’t type if one’s limbs need surgery.

Free speech is also a dubious asset in the absence of world-leading high school education. Little point speaking & listening if a significant part of the country still can’t write properly and doesn’t have even HS-level analytical skills or world awareness.

Free speech without a widely available world-leading basic school education to go with it is often just noise.

by Anonymousreply 120July 22, 2019 8:37 AM

Homophobia on the rise in Britain?

Yes, but only in London and Birmingham etc

Wonder whyever THAT could be?

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by Anonymousreply 121July 22, 2019 10:31 AM

Lots of racists in the UK. just go to a "footie" match, black players are called "monkeys" and worse.

by Anonymousreply 122July 22, 2019 5:09 PM

WTF is with all the UK hate?????

by Anonymousreply 123July 22, 2019 5:50 PM

Most people aren't big fans of fascism, R123. And, yes, silencing people and using reports of such in the media to scare others into staying quiet is indeed fascism. Shouldn't the plod be more interested in putting a stop to all that knife crime we read about every fucking day?

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by Anonymousreply 124July 22, 2019 5:55 PM

GOD FUCK YOU, anti-UK troll you ever been to the UK????

by Anonymousreply 125July 22, 2019 6:08 PM

Go fuck yourself mcgee

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by Anonymousreply 126July 22, 2019 6:10 PM

Why do people in the UK love smugly lecturing Americans on shootings but go berserk when anyone points to their sky high knife crime issue (which is only getting worse)?

by Anonymousreply 127July 22, 2019 6:11 PM

[quote] WTF is with all the UK hate?????

They fucked up the world for centuries.

by Anonymousreply 128July 22, 2019 6:11 PM

This isn’t “hate”, R123 - this is “tough love”. “Hate” is when you want a country to fail - “tough love” is when you want a country to [italic]improve[/italic], by slapping some common sense into the Tories / Labour.

One can’t improve without facing some uncomfortable truths about oneself.

[Insert an obligatory gif of an old Silver screen siren slapping a very silly-willy British lady.]

by Anonymousreply 129July 22, 2019 6:12 PM

That's your comeback mcgee??

by Anonymousreply 130July 22, 2019 6:12 PM
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by Anonymousreply 131July 22, 2019 6:13 PM

You sort out yours, will sort out ours.

by Anonymousreply 132July 22, 2019 6:14 PM

Well, Britain has to be number one in something....

by Anonymousreply 133July 22, 2019 6:15 PM

Fuck you for a country that has always had americans back you can be real fat dicks to us

by Anonymousreply 134July 22, 2019 6:17 PM

A stealth anti-trans, anti-Muslim thread that's nothing but AYB being a bigot. Typical. He's even brought out that faux transatlantic voice he uses when he's gotten all riled up. "Oh DO so tell me WHATEVER it is that I have missed, since you are the very EXPERT in all these things!"

You can just hear the sniff.

by Anonymousreply 135July 22, 2019 6:18 PM

[quote]You sort out yours, will sort out ours.

So you won't be lecturing Americans about shootings or whatever or posting about Trump anymore?

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by Anonymousreply 136July 22, 2019 6:18 PM

Maybe if DL was more about fat dicks than about tinymeats blathering on with their bigoted thoughts, R134, things wouldn't be such shit around here.

by Anonymousreply 137July 22, 2019 6:19 PM

Just block him, I did.

by Anonymousreply 138July 22, 2019 6:21 PM

[quote]A stealth anti-trans, anti-Muslim thread that's nothing but AYB being a bigot. Typical. He's even brought out that faux transatlantic voice he uses when he's gotten all riled up. "Oh DO so tell me WHATEVER it is that I have missed, since you are the very EXPERT in all these things!"

[quote]You can just hear the sniff.

I still have no idea who the fuck you're screeching about. I also still have no idea who the fuck you are either. Why don't you just block me and forget about me if my posts bother you so much? Of course you won't. You'd rather stalk me in every thread and accuse me of random shit you feel a need to make up.

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by Anonymousreply 139July 22, 2019 6:22 PM

Does that include Datalounge

by Anonymousreply 140July 22, 2019 6:22 PM

You got to be kidding me. There are sourced articles and evidence linked upthread of the UK becoming more and more like a nanny state and the only defense is to accuse people of bigotry? You realize that calling people bigots is only a smokescreen right? Similar to how corporations abuse American taxypayers while paying lip service to liberal causes.

by Anonymousreply 141July 22, 2019 6:26 PM

Stupidly thought this might be a serious thread, only to find that it's actually just some joker of a right wing Yank wanking himself silly over something he's watched on Infowars or watched on Blaze about 'free Tommeh' or that the UK is full of trans muslims that want to slide and dice everyone with a carving knife whilst it's being recorded on CCTV and then being reported as a hate crime to the police who do nothing but arrest people on social media who complain about the weather. All of the posts I've read so far are just as fanciful, this issues just do not exist in reality in everyday people's lives.

There are sourced articles proving what R141? That social media users are being reported for hate crimes? Reported sure, prosecuted, that would be actually more interesting. Sure you can dig out a story, James Godard for example, got put away for calling someone a Nazi. Did he really though? His was a sustained campaign of intimidation and harassment orchestrated by him and involving other individuals. So take your sourced articles and shove them up your sorry tight arses, because I live here, you don't, and whilst we do have problems like any other progressive state does, our biggest problem right now is the infiltration of the far right and the hangers on looking to make a lot of money out of the chaos, that's the real danger to democracy here.

Now I know that it's mostly one person posting, because one block went a long way to emptying this thread.

by Anonymousreply 142July 22, 2019 8:35 PM

R142 I love this idea these crazy people have that we're unable to step outside of our front doors here in the UK without getting acid thrown in our faces.

by Anonymousreply 143July 22, 2019 8:51 PM

And then Muriel can delete threads at will. Who died and made her The Free Speech God?

by Anonymousreply 144July 29, 2019 2:00 AM
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