CNN's Live Debate Drawing Official Viewing Party

[quote][bold]The First Draw will include 10 candidates:[/bold] Michael Bennet, Steve Bullock, Bill de Blasio, John Delaney, Tulsi Gabbard, Kirsten Gillibrand, John Hickenlooper, Jay Inslee, Tim Ryan, Marianne Williamson.

[quote][bold]The Second Draw will include 6 candidates:[/bold] Cory Booker, Pete Buttigieg, Julián Castro, Amy Klobuchar, Beto O'Rourke, Andrew Yang.

[quote][bold]The Final Draw will include 4 candidates:[/bold] Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren.

I hope Warren and Sanders are together

r2 Me too. Let's get that inevitable showdown over with already.

Fucking reality show shit fest

It's starting!

[quote]Fucking reality show shit fest

Yup. This is one of the reasons why Trump is President.

Reality tv star culture.

Wow, Jeanne Moos is still working? What a blast from the past.

When is the swimsuit competition?

They’re really stretching this out to fill an hour?

Seven analysts with Anderson, what the fuck?

Yup, R10.

David Chalian, John King, Gloria Borger, David Axelrod, etc.

I’m surprised David Axelrod doesn’t at least pretend he’s better than this circus.

Lotto live!

This is so cheesy and amateurish.

We'll get our Marianne fix on the first night already!

LOL, we have reached peak Reality TV.

Oh the drama!! Group one is the easiest so far. I hope Beto and Pete draw in the first group while the rest draw group 2.

Pete can't be in the same group as Castro because Castro will come after him hard, mark me. Booker probably as well.

They brought Bernard Shaw back for this???

How were the tiers decided?

[quote]LOL, we have reached peak Reality TV.

Yup. We're living in Trump World now.

Yes, Pete isn't with Castro, Tulsi, or Booker. Victory!

And, they have a whole panel of analysts debating the drawing of debate candidates.

r22 Just do the drawing already instead of speculating about the six possible outcomes!

I'm wondering what Bullock's like at the debate. Have never seen him in action before.

Only six candidates have qualified for the third debate in September so far: Biden, Buttigieg, Sanders, Warren, Harris, O'Rourke.

This is just embarrassing. Are any of these people even capable of embarrassment?

So exciting!

Custom-made red card holders. Cool!

Kamala-Biden rematch, fuck yeah!

Who won Miss Universe?

I have enjoyed this bitches!

R18 They are raising George Bernard Shaw from the dead-- for this?

r31 Me too! Though I hate myself that I've allowed my heart to start racing at certain moments.

this is going to be very interesting

Harris vs. Biden round 2 PLUS Booker is in the mix. He had some issues with Biden too.

Sanders vs. -Warren yes! BUT ALSO I would expect Buttigieg to finish off O'Rourke.

Second night is EXPLOSIVE.

Careful, grampa. It could be a coronary.

[quote]BUT ALSO I would expect Buttigieg to finish off O'Rourke

Beto will never come after Pete, and I doubt Pete will come after anyone. I think Bullock might want to go after Pete, along with Delaney and Ryan.

MSNBC just mocked this whole debacle.

I'm curious what Castro will do. He's clearly a wild card. He dominated O'Rourke last time but he's going to have to get a new target. Will he pile on Biden? Will he try to knock out Yang and Booker? I don't see Castro going after Harris

"Buttigieg to finish off O'Rourke"

In my pornhub dreams.

r38 Just as well, seeing how CNN earlier shat on the unbalanced first debates.

R38 what did they say

Podium positions next!

yes this is trashy and desperate of CNN cuz they are in dire need of ratings but since I'm watching the debates I'm watching this special

I'm quite sure that the campaign chairmen complain bitterly about favoritism if they don't make the selection entirely transparent.

I totally approve of this procedure.

What I don't approve of is having 50 zillion candidates in the first place, but that's another battle.

Podium positions next!

r36 I'm thirty, bitch.

R44 after this debate we'll see the field cut in half. Most of them won't meet the requirements for the next one

[quote]MSNBC just mocked this whole debacle. Can you imagine if Fox News tried to pull this shit the eyerolling and ridicule you’d see on CNN? They’re pathetic.

r39 I think most candidates will pile on Biden to try and outdo Kamala. Besides, they have nothing to lose at this point.

I saw the commercial for this event last week. I couldn't believe it was real and not a parody.

[quote]Can you imagine if Fox News tried to pull this shit the eyerolling and ridicule you’d see on CNN? They’re pathetic.

You wouldn't see FOX do this - they are all about pay-to-play and favoritism! No way they could ever be transparent.

Pete Bernie Liz Beto next to each other night 1

Booker Biden Harris Yang night 2

Biden's gonna have a stroke being in between Booker and Harris lmao

[quote]MSNBC just mocked this whole debacle.

Can you imagine if Fox News tried to pull this shit the eyerolling and ridicule you’d see from CNN? They’re pathetic.

Hickenlooper, Delaney, and Bullock on the right look indistinguishable from each other.

Chris Hayes: "This just in. Breaking News from CNN." He the giggles.

Yang next to Kamala, wtf?!

I reeeeally wanted to see Warren vs Biden.

Viewing party over. Time for Big Brother.

I think Buttigieg thinks he can gain some followers if he knows out O'Rourke

knocks out

Will CNN have a red carpet show before the Debate? Hosted by Anderson “Giggles” Cooper and Kelly Ripa, I presume.

Biden is going to get fucking NAILED by all those POC candidates.

I'm looking forward to this debate and remember it's going to happen just a week after Mueller's testimony (which is next Wednesday)

LOL why are so many people shading CNN for this? After all the bullshit of the 2016 DNC debates this seems like a step in the right direction

It’s ridiculous that so much is riding on who’s the best debater and who has the best zingers in their allotted 60 seconds. Thus is just stupid. The best debater is not = the best president.

R65 so you're saying Trump is better than Hillary? She kicked his ass all 3 times

I find myself actually enjoying this analysis talk.

R64, because they're trying to turn this into the NFL draft and stretching five minutes of actual content into however long this is going to take. It's politics as a circus, which is not healthy for this country.

Anything worthwhile discussed by the analysts, R67?

[quote]because they're trying to turn this into the NFL draft and stretching five minutes of actual content into however long this is going to take

Well gurl its too late to do anything about that. This is America where elections are long drawn out events, even down to a game show drawing of debate candidates

Pete is going to have to improve. He's great in town halls and interviews, but seems lost in debates. Even Swalwell got shots in on him last time.

Who do you think will go after Harris? I think they're all scared of her.

R66 I’m saying that the best debater who has the best zingers is not necessarily the person who would be the best President. This reality-show circus is stupid and counterproductive.

[quote]Even Swalwell got shots in on him last time.

And Swalwell was gone a few days later.

r69 That Biden needs to come across as alert while fending off possible attacks about abortion from Kirsten and Kamala, that Warren and Bernie will need to put their friendship aside and actually contrast each other + the others may come after their healthcare plans, that Warren was cosy in the first debate but this one won't be smooth sailing (Pete is no joke, said one of them), that Pete is in a good position to stand out as the next generation because he's right next to Bernie, that there will probably be a question on the first night about the future of the Dem party and/or how to win the election (tilt more progressive or more moderate?)...

[quote]Who do you think will go after Harris? I think they're all scared of her.

Biden. He's going to FINISH her.

Joe is gonna have to step it up as is Mayor Pete. Both were lackluster in the first debate.

July 30th: Sanders, Warren, Buttigieg, O'Rourke, Klobuchar, Williamson, Delaney, Hickenlooper, Ryan, Bullock

July 31st: Biden, Harris, Castro, Yang, Booker, Inslee, Gillibrand, Gabbard, Bennet, De Blasio

I LOVED the CNN draw special. I think it was a brilliant idea. This is what gets the average person excited about the debates and motivated to vote next year. Politics has turned into entertainment for most people, so why not turn the debate draw into entertainment? MSNBC is just mad that they didn't think of it first.

R75 haha hardly

r76 I think Pete was just fine when you ventured out of the Twitter/pundit bubble. Average Americans in the comments section everywhere I looked liked his composure.

r78 Exactly. If it makes more people pay attention, I'm fine with all the circus.

R80, plus Pete is raking in huge numbers of donations and getting great crowds across the country.

I feel like Klobuchar might say fuck it and go after on of the top three. As a former prosecutor, she might do a lot of damage that way.

*one of the top three

People are saying Biden's is the worst draw he could have possibly had.

Yeah, I think Biden would kill to be in night 1 instead of Warren.

CNN embarrassed itself and trivialized the most important election in recent memory. I'm genuinely disgusted with CNN.

r87 It makes me LAUGH how Biden is sandwiched among all the attack dogs like that (well, except for Yang). He better sleep for three days straight before the debate because they'll tear into him like he's Trump himself. And when they're done, de Blasio will dispose of what's left.

R88, I agree that CNN needs to make some changes.

They can start with firing Rick Santorum. Of all the Republican commentators they could hire, why choose one with a notorious homophobic record?

I like Don Lemon but CNN is a joke.

Tuesday, July 30

Wednesday, July 31

Kirsten already writing the #MeToo version of the "I was that little girl" attack, no doubt.

"Now, Vice President Biden, I do not believe you are a sexual predator..."

r88 please stop acting like CNN is the only new organization trivializing the election. The entire American media has had a field day with election drama for the last several years and has capitalized off everything possible.

R80: Sure, Jan. Average Americans don't comment online about anything. Only obsessive idiots like you and me and everyone here comment.

R78/R81: Sorry, I will NEVER accept this. I am MARY! and I have stated my boundaries.

I was simply relaying my experience. And yes, average people do use the web and comment on online newspaper articles, shocking as that might seem to you. But I don't intend to engage you further as you're quite rude, so that's that.

To think that CNN was once the gold standard of news...sigh.

so Biden placed in between all the candidates of color lol Harris, Booker, Castro, Yang and Gabbard. Tuesday is white night

r100 Both nights will get asked about race, I'm sure. I want Warren to say something about that as well, seeing how she's polling low among AAs, and she hasn't really done anything tangible for that community as a senator.

[quote]People are saying Biden's is the worst draw he could have possibly had.

I disagree. He's the only moderate in a debate full of left-wingers. The contrast should work for him.

I also think that if Harris and Booker team-up on him, it will make older white voters angry.

I think the debate draw is perfection, in that we get Sanders vs. Warren, and Biden vs. The Left Wing of the Party. Plus the intoxicating vocal stylings of Miss Marianne Williamson.

Both debates will be must-watch TV.

R102, the only thing we'll be missing is the bitch fight between Pete & Swalwell that we got last month.

r102 Bennet is also a moderate. This is what CNN has to say about him:

[quote]Sen. Michael Bennet, step on up. The Colorado moderate will stand out on the second debate night, which is otherwise stocked with progressive hopefuls.

[quote]He's the only moderate in a debate full of left-wingers. The contrast should work for him.

Such a high contrast might be a bit too much though, especially if everyone else is constantly pointing out how out of touch he is. Luckily, he'll have Benent as a wingman.

(I can't believe I'm talking about debates like they're gladiatorial fights.)

[quote]One key dynamic on debate night will be how South Bend, Indiana, Mayor Pete Buttigieg and former Texas Congressman Beto O’Rourke interact with one another.

CNN is seriously expecting these two to take each other on. Never gonna happen. Not outside a bedroom, that is.

[quote]Not outside a bedroom, that is.

What?!

I'm looking forward to these two debates with bated breath. Hope Booker, Castro and Harris gangbang Biden to orgasmic death on stage.

r108 It really makes zero sense to go after anyone else other than Biden that night. None of them - apart from Kamala - are polling well so there's more to be gained in going after the top dog. I wouldn't be surprised if Biden's team is shitting itself so much right now, they'll try to make him say something positive about these candidates in the coming weeks, so as to try and soften the inevitable blows.

I can't wait for Tulsi Gabbard to try Kamala and get shut down. It will be glorious.

You idiots, tonights draw wasn't done for you, it was done for the campaign chairmen to squelch the lobbying and jockeying for position. It was a smart move by CNN, who otherwise would have had to put up with harrassment from the campaigns and cat-calls of favoritism from all sides. Th viewers were the least important aspect, although they tried to keep it interesting by having a panel discussion.

[quote] BUT ALSO I would expect Buttigieg to finish off O'Rourke.

Not a chance R34. [bold]Pete is aiming at one of the top 4[/bold]. This is his chance to knock a vulnerable Bernie and move into 4th place, maybe third if Harris and Biden wound each other the next night.

Minie and overall bully Julian Castro is in the other debate, Beto can sleep well tonight. He can be his usual happy go lucky self without worrying about the school yard bully coming at him.

I hope Liz kicks that old coot Sanders right in the he proverbial gonads.

How the hell did Bullock and Williamson qualify? Is the bar that low? And de blase? Toss these imbeciles out.

R111 I couldn't care less if the debates are set up for an old fart like you or a young millennial like me. Just bloody enjoy them.

Podium-wise, I'm glad Pete is sandwiched between Klobuchar and Sanders, as opposed to standing next to O'Rourke; isn't he like 6'4"? Pete is nothing if not brilliant; the last debate was his 'dress rehearsal,' now I expect him to soar in Detroit.

Who will Marianne Williamson go after this time? Last time she ended the prime minister of New Zealand.

I'm guessing maybe Angela Lansbury, Jaclyn Smith, or Joyce Dewitt.

there's going to have to be some attacking on Tuesday night. They know they won't get any headlines or make any gains if they don't

Did they really draw for podium position and all the favorites ended up in the middle, i didn't watch it?

The draw was very similar to a Tennis grand slam draw. There were four seeds (Bernie, Harris, Biden, and Warren).

Then, once each side was drawn, the top four pollers [in each group] were given the 4 middle spots in their respective group. Andre Yang is one of the top 4 pollers in his group so that's why he is in the middle on night 2.

CNN pretty much said on air that the middle gets more questions.

"Both nights will get asked about race, I'm sure."

Fuck the race shit up the ass. Start talking about substantive things. People are sick and tired of hearing about race.

I just want a debate with Biden, Pete, Warren, Beto, Casto, and Harris. The rest can go kick rocks and are just a distraction.

In contrast, R121, I want to hear from all candidates. It's still early enough that ideas and fortunes can change.

This may be one of the most important elections of my lifetime. Why dismiss anyone prematurely?

Like they have a prayer of turning it around. Get real; they're just getting their names out there for another office, not pres. and everyone knows it.They are a waste of time and detract from actual substance.

Apparently, Booker's team is already cooking up an attack on Biden. If Biden manages to survive that night, he should probably just be the nominee.

[quote]I just want a debate with Biden, Pete, Warren, Beto, Casto, and Harris. The rest can go kick rocks and are just a distraction.

Well, you may get your wish in the 3rd debate. As of right now only 6 candidates are qualifying. Short of a reckoning, it's likely to stay that way.

Warren

Biden

Bernie

Harris

O'Rourke

Butigieg,

Klobuchar needs just one more poll in addition to more donors, so she'll probably make it. Booker is in a similar situation as well, I believe. But yeah, the rest are toast.

Tom Perez needs to keep the two debates going for awhile longer. Like it or not, it's great entertainment and people like the excitement surrounding them.

Trump and Obama showed us that voters care more about spectacle than actual issues. If we want to compete with Trump, we need to entertain voters.

[quote]O’Rourke’s campaign, which knows he has to improve, is pleased to be on the same stage as Buttigieg, I’m told. They think the two represent Dems’ future in very different ways (El Paso vs. Rust Belt, organizing vs. media-heavy) and want voters to see their styles side by side.

Pete, you in danger girl. 😱

Eric Swallwell is getting fitted for his skin tight sleeveless referee shirt that will show off his muscles. He will make one muscular hunky referee. He will keep things from getting out of hand.

R128 which is what I predicted but someone up thread said "there's no way the 2 will clash". They know they can take each other's supporters

r130 I said that and I still maintain that because both have already qualified for the third debate, so there's little to be gained from such a conflict at this time.

I can't imagine Beto pouncing on anyone because he's so gentle. But we'll see. I'll probably cum on the spot if he lays it into Pete.

We'll see, r131. Pete is about 50 times more intelligent than Beto, so I would tread lightly if I were Beto.

I'm not even a fan but he's so handsome. The gentlest of giants.

When does the Celebrity Death Match portion of the debate happen?

R133, I'm sorry, I know everyone has their tastes, but to me Beto is repulsive. I can think of 5 other attractive candidates, but O'Rourke is just stone cold ugly.

R135, he has the nose of two people. It's like it was Frankensteined onto his face. Weird nose. Moles everywhere. Crooked mouth. Giant teeth. I agree and have no idea how anyone thinks he's good looking.

Okay, so he's not a 10 but he has this puppy look to him that signals he'd be *super* attentive in the sack. I just love his presence, I guess, and could get seriously drunk on that alone.

Quit trying to make Beto happen. He's ugly and dull.

Beto is okay, but I think he probably lost some of his support here for rushing into the run for President when many people had hoped he would make another run at a Texas Senate seat first.

if Beto had the bridge of his nose shaved he'd be very good looking. It's OK from certain angles but it hinders him from being hot IMO.

Castro pretty much took the wind of out of his privileged sails. Unless O'Rourke goes after Buttigieg I think he's finished but he'll make it to the next debate based on money raised

r138 Aw, don't be cruel. Maybe he'll surprise us all at the second debate.

r139 Agreed. But that's what happens when you're surrounded by hypemen. And I've noticed his supporters on Twitter are some of the most vicious around, which is baffling to me. Perhaps they're overprotective of him because they know deep down he'll never be an aggressive person?

Are they, R141? I think they hate Pete. I can sort of understand because Pete stole his thunder.

Yang, Booker, Castro and Klobuchar will likely make it to the third debate too, making the # of candidates left 10.

The rest of them will likely be out after this upcoming debate unless they can somehow command the stage and create major momentum.

r142 You're right, it's probably just Pete who annoys them. I do wonder which candidate - if any - they'll go to if/when Beto drops out.

I'm surprised Castro is still around, considering that idiotic statement he made about not forgetting trans people when it comes to abortions.

How many people will tune in just to hear the pearls of wisdom that come out of Marianne's mouth?

I just hope Marianne doesn't [italic]try[/italic] to be iconic because she'll just ruin the illusion that way. Girlfriend, it needs to be effortless or don't even bother.

r143 Update on where all those 4 stand currently

1. Yang has met donor threshold. And has one qualifying poll. He needs 3 more polls. If he screws up second debate, extremely tough for him to qualify. He is quite uncharismatic

2. Castro also met donor threshold. He has two qualifying polls. He is also dependent on his debate performance. And he doesn't have Beto with him to attack

3. Klobuchar needs one poll and 30 thousand donors. I think it's doable for her.

4. Booker is almost there. He already has 4 qualifying polls. He just needs 15k donors and he has plenty of time and plenty of people to attack in the debate.

[quote]How many people will tune in just to hear the pearls of wisdom that come out of Marianne's mouth?

They should just make Marianne the halftime show, like at the Super Bowl. Put her in a spangly leotard with some hunky backup dancers and let her put on a show. Maybe bring out Nicki Minaj to perform with her.

Where is all the Yang support coming from nationally? I don't think anyone except people who are really into politics know who he is, even after the debate.

Incels who want $1,000 a month for doing nothing, R149.

Eric Bradner is just hyping a match that is not likely to take place. Pete is not looking below to garner points. He is sitting in 5th place while the top 4 have distanced themselves from the rest. In Bernie he has a vulnerable tier 1 contender that he can take down and get some needed buzz. Beto is there for the ride and to get a few soundbites. None of the top three in that debate will see Beto as a rival. The bloodbath will be between Pete vs. Bernie and Bernie vs. Warren.

I hope Bullock comes swinging hard.

It would only make sense for him to attack Bernie and Warren, to position himself as a moderate alternative for all those viewers who moaned that the views expressed in the first debate were too leftist. Of course, Bernie and Warren will band together and take him out like the coal-enabling trash that he is.

Bullock is one hot daddy

Bullock will be speaking after Pete today at Iowa Presidential Primary Candidate Forums, so you can see what he's about if you're unfamiliar with him. Sanders is on right now.

Okay, Bullock is speaking before Pete for some reason and holy shit, he has charisma coming out of his ass! More suave than any other candidate I've seen thus far.

I'm worried about the second debate now.

Beto is kind of my type, so I've always found him pretty hot, but I've been surprised by how many others do. I certainly don't think of him as conventionally attractive...

Bullock is too far down to win. He should be focused on beating the Republicans in Montana -- not making a long shot bid for President.

If Beto, Bullock, and Hickenlooper can shave 50 points off their egos, we could flip Senate seats in Texas, Montana, and Colorado. I hope it's not too late but I think it will be harder to go for Senate in their states now. It will be seen as settling and people will not be as enthused since being their Senator was the booby prize.

R159, it's not late. The cut off is September, plenty of time for this candidates to get a national profile and then switch to the Senate races in time for the elections.

Running for Prez is the biggest PR campaign to get some buzz.

these*

Bullock said Bill Clinton didn't enter race until October. But the more he talks, the less I like him. He's just another moderate, leaning conservative. I'd have a beer with him, though.

r162 He is so hot !! My God!!

R159, the advantage the Democrats still have in Colorado is that even if Hickenlooper doesn't run for Senate, they still have a good chance of winning the Colorado Senate seat:

1) There are several other Democrats planning to run for the Colorado Senate nomination if Hickenlooper doesn't

2) The state has been trending Democratic over the past decade (eg. Democratic Governor, Democratic Senator, won by Obama twice, and won by Hillary.)

3) Republican Senator Cory Gardner has low approval ratings (eg. this week's Morning Consult rankings)

R159, the candidate drops out, vowing it's time to reflect and think about the future, but one thing is certain, he won't be running for Senate.

Then in the nick of time and lo and behold, after a chorus of carefully planted calls for this political Lazarus to rise for the people, a change of heart.

The right environment can always be arranged.

r155 It's actually enraging how knowledgeable Pete is. No tricks needed to buy himself time, like with Bullock.

Klobuchar is the one who needs to make a big move during the debate. It's really do or die for her campaign at this point. She needs to go after Sanders and Warren hard. And she needs to go after Biden's age and the fact that he's an older white male. If she doesn't land some big blows this time, she might as well close up shop.

r167 This. Klobuchar needs to fucking POUNCE like she's never pounced before in all her time as a prosecutor.

I have never seen a group with so many voices that are unpleasant to listen to... Sanders, Warren, Klobuchar, Harris.

I suppose I meant heard.

Not as unpleasant as Trump's voice, R169.

The Trump-Williamson scale of voice pleasantness, where 1 is Trump and 10 is Marianne. Her cadence ought to be taught in schools.

Klobuchar and Gillibrand need to unleash their inner tigress if they want to continue in the primary. The question is whether it's too late? Do they go ahead and cut their losses and fight to be Biden's VP? If that's the case, then they need to tag-team Warren and Sanders and call them out on their radical policies.

Yeah, Gillibrand needs to channel her incredible THIRST not into trying to get airtime to present her policies, but into destroying someone. Anyone. Literally pick someone on that stage and tear into him/her. Bonus points if you go after the top dog (Kamala), just like in prison.

Same for Klobuchar. Pick Bernie or Warren and don't stop kicking until the moderators have to intervene. Show us what you're made of, god damn it!

R174 that advice didn't work for Swallwell, who viciously went after Pete.

r175 I'm sure Gillibrand and Klobuchar could do it with more finesse than Swalwell who just kept screaming about that damn torch.

R175 is right. Swalwell was gone from the race a few days later.

Marianne Williamson should just come out in Baby Jane garb, she's already got the 1940s femme fatale accent down. "But y'are in that chair, Trump, y'are in that chair!"

r175 They need to lean more into the Kamala kind of viciousness, and less into the Swalwell one. So no playground taunts, but rather personal blows below the belt.

Those hit pieces on Klobuchar may have slowed whatever momentum she was getting who could have gotten. Clearly that woman has pissed off the wrong person. Gillibrand is getting exactly what she deserves.

r180 I haven't seen any hit pieces? Could you point me to one? Who on earth would bother attacking Amy this early on?

weren't they saying she was mean to her staff?

But that was back when she started running. And it wasn't a hit piece, just a weird anecdote.

Yes all those articles about her being abusive to her staff. And there were others, with lots of anonymous quotes from insiders.

[quote]Anyone. Literally pick someone on that stage and tear into him/her. Bonus points if you go after the top dog (Kamala), just like in prison.

Klobuchar needs to make a shiv out of that comb she eats her food with and stick Kamala in the flank with it.

That would almost guarantee her the spot of Biden's VP.

Attacking the other opponents may get some of these candidates a temporary bump or media coverage, but it also comes with a risk of alienating voters and ruining your chances.

Latest example: Eric Swalwell

Any presidential history buffs on here? I was wondering if there were calls for the Democrats to safely go with some moderate when FDR was running and calling for all his radical policies? I'm getting so sick of the Repugs going so far right that they are now basically fascists but the Democrats having to always moderate themselves. Our liberal policies are what the country wants when you ask them about the issues. We are a center left country with liberal tendencies. The lies otherwise are bullshit and I'm sick of Democrats going along with letting the Repugs define us. We need a new FDR right now and if we fight for it instead of playing the pundit moderation game, we can get it.

R187, one of the reasons Franklin Roosevelt became the most successful President in history and won a record 4 terms is because of his own personal charisma and strength of personality. Despite being a wealthy man himself, he was considered a fighter for average working people, and was called a "traitor to his class" by Wall Street.

The economic circumstances of the time (eg. the Great Depression) also worked in Roosevelt's favor. But one of the biggest differences between the 1930's & 40's and today is that the Democrats won massive majorities in the House of Representatives & the Senate. A huge win in 1932, and then increased majorities in 1934 & 1936. It was also a time when the country was less polarized and the President was able to win almost every state (eg. Roosevelt won every state but Vermont & Maine in 1936).

Can I add that another key aspect of Roosevelt's success was the exact nature of his charisma and personality.

He was an eternal optimist and in dark times people responded to that tone. He could rally and unite around a positive vision. I would argue since him the four presidents similar in tone were Kennedy, Reagan, Clinton and Obama. Three were ours.

Who in the current line up is optimistic? I'd say Biden and Buttegeig. Warren is somewhere in the middle. Harris and Bernie are just pissed off. The rest of them don't have a voice.

It was a different time. No 24 hour news, no daily polls, plus the main reason is there were Jim Crow laws in effect that kept black Americans from being any serious threat or competition to white people. So, there was no fear by white people that people of color were getting something that they weren't. Which is really what it all boils down to. Why working class whites typically vote against their own interests.

But, was the Democratic party itself trying to pull FDR back from his liberal policies like the mainstream Democratic party seems to be doing now?

The Repugs move further and further right. The Democrats move to the center. Why aren't the Dems going left instead? It's where the country is when asked about the issues. I think we just need to start embracing it and stop being embarrassed of our liberal tendencies.

Well it's all nice to be self confident, R191, but there's the small matter of selling what people will buy.

If America has proven anything as a nation, it's that anyone can be sold anything by a good enough salesperson. FDR was a great salesman. That's what we need right now. A charismatic liberal and a reverberating message that the entire party sticks to all the time.

I honestly think a Warren/Buttigieg ticket could be the winning ticket.

Liz Warren isn't charismatic. On her best day she's painfully sincere.

Warren is very charismatic. What's your idea of charismatic? Trump? Have you ever watched her with a group of people? She and Pete would be a great balance on the ticket.

My idea of charismatic isn't a school marm, no matter how well intentioned. Buttegeig has charisma. Obama had charisma. Bill Clinton had charisma. Sorry, you're obviously a fangurl. Fucking Trump with charisma. You're an idiot too, you lazy bugger.

You're just sexist-visioned, R196. Buttigieg isn't actually very charismatic. He's smart as hell and extremely well-spoken but very controlled in his demeanor. I always found Obama to be very understated. Very deliberate all the time. Not fiery. He has more in common with Buttigieg in that way. But, I don't think he was charismatic, either. I dare you to find a videos where Obama and Buttigieg show more charisma than Warren does here. I think you just haven't been paying attention to Warren.

Obama and Buttigieg are charismatic to me (and obviously to a lot of other people). Low-key can be charismatic as well. I agree with the poster who said that Warren comes off as a schoolmarm. I like her but she has no charisma.

Did you even watch the video linked. It's only a minute and a half. Like I said, please show me some videos of Pete or Obama being equally charismatic. The schoolmarm crap is a right wing/Bernbro talking point and it is sexist.

Yes, I listened. She's screechy. Listen, I like her. If she becomes president, I'll be perfectly happy. She's not charismatic to me. No matter what I link from Pete or Obama (there's plenty out there), you won't agree that they're charismatic. So what's the point?

r199 you are conflating charisma with inspiring. Warren is inspiring and respectable but not charismatic. Notice how she started getting traction only after she started talking about her personal life. Real charismatic persons don't have to try to appear charismatic. It should look natural. When Warren did a live chat with beer in her hand or when she discussed game of thrones, the entire nation cringed. Compare that to how effortless Pete looks whenever he talks about anything.

R201, the definition of charisma is literally "ability to inspire" and involves things like charm (which Obama has, although I'm not sure I'd call Pete charming...but, I don't like charmers, I find them fake), and character, and personality. Maybe my dislike for charm is the difference. I put a much lower value on the charm factor as it pertains to personal charisma. I put relatablity much higher on my list of what I find charismatic in people.

But, the shrill and schoolmarm crap is sexist.

I like how failure to agree about Warren is "sexist visioned." Welcome to intellect in 2020.

No, R203, it's calling her a schoolmarm and saying she's shrill that is sexist. Also, holding her to different and higher standards than the male candidates.

r202 This is what charisma is about. Ever imagine Warren doing this ? Pete oozes charisma effortlessly

As a fan of both Warren and Pete, I hate this pitting of the candidates against each other, especially when it's not even about policy issues.

I can imagine Warren doing that almost word for word, gesture for gesture, R205. I want a Warren/Buttigieg ticket. Never going to happen but after we get stuck with a Biden/Harris ticket, we'll be wishing for it.

I watch this video and I see tons of charisma. And, this was really early in the campaign.

Only subscribers can post in the ongoing Mueller thread part whatever now. WTF?

It's part 112. So, first 111 thread for everyone. The rest for subscribers only. That's what we need now.

Well, the Mueller thread 'A Treasonable Mind' is dying now. No posts in four hours on the day Mueller testified. Unbelievable. Hope the person who has been starting them for two years is a subscriber.

It would be better to go back to the old Primetime system rather than requiring subscription to particular threads.

There is still primetime. Non-subscribers being banned from posting in specific threads is added on top of primetime. I mean, two years of threads on the Mueller investigation ends on the day he testifies? For what reason? It's just pissing people off and making them leave, not subscribe. All of this happening just as we are going into the 2020 election year? It's almost like it was planned that way.

....

So, really, what's up with them shutting out the Mueller thread for posts? Is it permanent? Two years of on-going discussion now closed for no reason?

Booker coming after Biden, Biden coming after Booker and Kamala and Warren, Beto pretty much announcing he'll take on Pete, Tulsi taking a shot at Kamala... The second debate is shaping to be a doozy!

r214 Guess it was decided that too few posters (or too many non-paying posters) were posting in those threads for them to take up so much space. Whatever the case, better not to discuss the workings of DL in other threads as they might get shut down as well. You can still post there if you're a paying member, though.

[quote] Two years of on-going discussion

Don't you mean two years of worn out repetition and unfulfilled fantasy.

Only to trolls or Repug pieces of crap, R216.

[bold]How Beto O'Rourke plans to turn things around in next week's Democratic debate[/bold]

[quote]After watching tape of his panned performance in the first Democratic debate, Beto O'Rourke understood he had a problem: He needed to come across as more human and less rehearsed.

[quote]Shortly after the first debate, a senior campaign aide said, O'Rourke campaign manager Jen O'Malley Dillon rewatched the tape, and then told O'Rourke he needed to do so, too. O'Rourke and his wife Amy watched parts of the debate while traveling together. Then, he rewatched it again on his own.

[quote]He came to the same conclusion his campaign staff had: He'd been wooden -- too focused on what he'd begun the night hoping to accomplish -- and missed important opportunities to engage with other candidates and fight back against attacks.

So many damn rewatches, he better be pitch-perfect next week.

Pete's spokesman had something to say:

Buttigieg's national press secretary Chris Meagher responded to those comments, noting O'Rourke's failure so far to make much headway in the polls.

"Congressman O'Rourke can feel free to attack the more than 400,000 people who have invested in Pete's campaign," Meagher said. "Pete is focused on the future and tackling the changes facing our nation head on -- that's why our campaign has actually gained traction. We're looking forward to discussing this vision in the next debate."

r219 Pete and Beto are both such gentlemen, I cringe just thinking about their showdown next week. Why can't we just debate the fuckng policy issues instead?! Screw Kamala for turning this into a gladiatorial circus.

I'm still hoping Beto changes his mind and sticks to talking about his proposals.

[quote]How Beto O'Rourke plans to turn things around in next week's Democratic debate

All Spanish this time! I bet Beto is regretting getting that "I Was Born For This, Man!" tramp stamp.

Really, though, you can't plan to be more natural. It's not possible. He's going to flame out again in a new, more awkward way. Back to Texas, Beto, Cornyn is waiting for you.

Exactly, R221.

The DNC should persuade Beto to do the right thing and run in Texas. That's where he's needed.

Too late for Texas. He is damaged goods.

I hope Beto disappears into history at this point. What a wanker. Egotistical straight white males need to go away so we can fix the country. That goes for Biden and Bernie, too.

Biden is flawed, but he has a right to be there since polls show he is the one most likely to save us from Trump.

I disagree. I think whomever can bring light and hope will win. Not in the Marianne Williamson way but in real ways. I've been seeing all this Apollo stuff for the last few weeks and for all the turmoil going on in the 60s, it was the hope that was brought by Democrats in the face of the backwards darkness that represents everything Republican that made the difference. Kennedy, Carter, Clinton, Obama. They brought light and hope for the future.

That is not Biden. That is Warren/Buttigieg.

Just one more day, bitches. Anyone else feeling nervous for their fave? I feel like no one will come out of this debate unscathed as there are so many candidates who won't be around at the next one and so will lash out like a wounded animal.

Quinnipiac Poll from today: Biden 34 (+12), Warren 15 (+1), Harris 12 (-8), Sanders 11 (-2), Buttigieg 6 (+2)

Kamala's bump after the first debate has been nearly entirely erased. So let this be a lesson that outrageous moments during debates don't produce lasting results.

So, Beto broke out the bad Spanish in Miami. I can't wait to see what he tries to do in Detroit! I'm thinking either Jive or maybe a little street rap. You go with your bad self, Beto!

Beto (through his people) is telling anyone and everyone that he's going after Pete this time. After the 4th "anonymous" Beto source who repeated that same message to the press, Pete's spokesman smacked him down on the record.

If Beto tries to smear Pete in the debate, he will lose what's left of his popularity.