Trans weightlifter Laurel Hubbard wins two gold medals

Why is a MALE allowed to compete in a FEMALE competition? The IOC is guilty of both destroying competitive fairness and female sports.

What a vision of femininity

It's completely pointless for actual women to compete if this is how it's going to be.

Killing it, Bruh!

Martina did a documentary about this after all the bullshit she received for her comments.

What struck me were 2 things:

1) MTF are allowed to have a testosterone level 5x of women 2) Martina - at the top of her game - was matched with Renee Richards, a trans woman. Renee Richards was 20+ years older and told Martina that she probably would have beaten her 10 years ago.

Sorry - this isn't an even playing field and it never will be. Look for Martina's documentary - it's really good.

So brave and beautiful.

How is that fair to biological women? Trans women can compete together for all I care, but to let them compete with women is utter bullshit.

If I remember correctly, it was Blanchard who did a study, the results of which identified two types of transgender women.

The largest group were autogynophiles, 63%, sexually aroused by the thought of themselves as women, and the urge to humiliate women.

I don't think trans individuals should be pathologised, and should be treated as individuals. But, in the case, all the women probably felt some type of humiliation. I think that would speak volumes.

*should NOT be pathologised.*

People aren't happy. A white, wealthy, 41 year old biological male beating two young women of colour,

And this was interesting towards the end of the article:

'Samoa 2019 has also seen the participation of American Samoa's Jaiyah Saelua, who in 2011 became the first player recognised as transgender to play in a FIFA World Cup qualifier. Saelua officially started his transgender transition after the World Cup qualifiers and has been part of American Samoa's men's football team at the Games. The 30-year-old, who helped American Samoa end a 36-year losing streak at the Games by drawing 1-1 with Tuvalu, claimed the region accepts minorities.

"This time, the supporters who understand the concept of fa’afafine, the officials and coaches of other teams are encouraging," Saelua told the Pacific Games News Service."It makes me feel proud to be a part of the Pacific region where this third gender is accepted, encouraged and celebrated.'

A trans women playing in the men's team with the acceptance of a 'third gender' so no nonsense about transphobic Samoans, it's a matter of biological reality

NZ Otago University researchers came out today and said that it’s not an even playing field when trans compete against real women. Can’t wait for the backlash on that. It’s totally coming. I’m all about science and facts yet these trans will make a huge fuss and I bet Otago will end up apologising.

Here is the link

[quote] "the supporters who understand the concept of fa’afafine, the officials and coaches of other teams are encouraging," Saelua told the Pacific Games News Service. "It makes me feel proud to be a part of the Pacific region where this third gender is accepted, encouraged and celebrated.' "

Good on Somoa for still prioritising biological categories for sport. However, even so, their tribal idea of a "third gender" is so quasi-religious and Mysticism-based.

Some (usually less technologically developed and therefore prone to Mysticism) tribal nations believe in the "3rd gender". They also believed other Mystical, Mythological fluff like that the world rests on a giant tortoise's back. Quasi-religious tribal beliefs should really be taken with a truckload of salt. Just like the old Christian belief that Mary was a virgin who experienced "immaculate conception".

Should there be an Ovaries Division?

Eventually there will be a tipping point, right?

When the World Cup is dominated by trans women?

Should there be an Ovaries Division?

Eventually there will be a tipping point, right?

When the World Cup is dominated by trans women?

It is so sad we have to even tip-toe around this argument. It's obvious this isn't fair. Once again, we have to divorce ourselves from reality in order to appease the transsexuals.

We have to call them women. We have to be supportive even though they've done nothing to change their gender identity except throw on a wig and heels.

Conservatives are rightfully laughing at us.

What a beautiful lady! Such a delicate flower, like Thumbelina!

Modern Madness!

In other words, Feagaiga Stowers won the competition. A cheater stole the title but at some point hopefully the record books will be corrected.

What an asshole.

I hate your constant attacks on transwomen (I notice you could give a fuck about transmen) however, when it comes to sport I cannot support transwomen competing against other women. It simply isn't fair on a physical level.

I hate that I agree with any of you bigoted cunts about anything. Please fuck off and die in a grease fire, the sooner the better.

Zzzzzzzz is

Your virtue signaling is boring as fuck r21

[bold]Hubbard moment the biggest and most blatant injustice in Samoa XVI Pacific Games[/bold]

By Mata'afa Keni Lesa, 07/15/2019

The truth is this. We just cannot stop thinking about Feagaiga Stowers.

Having been chosen as Samoa’s flag bearer, this Pacific Games was supposed to have been her moment.

This is a young woman who has had to endure tremendous difficulties in her childhood, where she eventually entered the Samoa Victims Support Group, to end up where she is today. It’s an incredible story.

Indeed, Stowers meteoric rise has proven there is hope for everyone. And she’s done everything possible to be on top of her game, where she deserves to be.

This was until she stepped up on the weightlifting platform on Saturday where her hopes of clinching a Pacific Games gold – and that of a proud nation – were crushed by a fellow competitor, Laurel Hubbard.

The most heartbreaking part of this story is that her kiwi competitor is someone who shouldn’t have been there in the first place. Hubbard had represented New Zealand as Gavin Hubbard in international competitions.

Yes he lifted against people like himself, boys and men that is, where he rightfully belonged. That was until he changed his mind and became a transgender. Many of us know the story. Hubbard’s story is one of many cases, where political correctness has allowed a blatant wrong to be accepted. Which is okay, I suppose, given the way the world is today. To each their own.

But where we have an issue, and where people in positions of power to right this wrong should act immediately, is when Hubbard denies the opportunity for women like Stowers to claim what is rightfully theirs.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Hubbard does not belong in the women’s competition. As a transgender, there are only two ways Hubbard should continue to compete. Hubbard could either step up against the men or the organisers of the Pacific Games, or any competition Hubbard enters, should introduce a new division for transgenders.

We are talking about sports here. One of the values of sport is fairness. We cannot say that allowing a transgender to compete against women is fair. It is grossly unfair for women like Stowers, or all women, for that matter.

And you're a bigoted, dumb cunt, R22. Virtue signal that up your dusty, cobwebbed twat and rotate.

This is why we cannot stop thinking about Stowers and how gutted she must have been, at being denied the gold medal in the women’s 87kgs division by Hubbard, who lifted a total of 268kgs. Stowers lagged behind by seven kilos. Imagine that? Given Hubbard’s genes, think of how hard Stowers had to work to try and keep up. And she did. It’s an amazing achievement, still she lost the gold medal by seven kilos to a competitor who technically a man.

Ladies and gentlemen, we know what some people would say. In raising this issue, we accept people would call us names such as racist, discriminative, homophobic and what have you. We’re okay with that. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

But here is the thing, we should insist on the truth. Besides, it is upon the decisions we make today we establish the foundation for tomorrow. We need to think beyond Hubbard, we should be thinking about the precedence that has been set here. What happens when you have 10, 20 or even more transgender athletes wanting to compete against women?

It will be a tragedy of gigantic proportion for sport when this sort of carrying is allowed. We talk a lot about empowering women, this does not empower women. If anything, it is taking power away from them. It is robbing them of what rightfully belongs to them.

Which is why this needs to be addressed, sooner rather than later. We accept that the Hubbard case has has garnered international attention for some years now. And this is not the first time Stowers and other women lifters have been disadvantaged.

The worry is that if Hubbard is allowed to continue, there is risk that women will become discouraged to participate, because they will always be disadvantaged by naturally stronger opponents, who should be competing against men.

In some circles, some people will argue that Hubbard’s rights as an individual are being denied as a transgender. Well if that’s the case, what about the rights of other athletes? What about the rights of women to compete against other women? When we talk about creating a level playing field, the matter is quite simple. Women should compete against women, just as men should take on the men. Period.

When the matter first surfaced, the President of the Samoa Weightlifting Federation, Tuaopepe Jerry Wallwork, was quite firm. Said Tuaopepe: "A man is a man and a woman is a woman and I know a lot of changes have gone through, but in the past Laurel Hubbard used to be a male champion weightlifter.

"The strength is still there and I think it's very unfair, and for all females it's unfair. The situation may have been accepted by the IOC but that won't stop us from protesting, regardless of whether it's against one of our lifters or not. It's just very unfair.”

We couldn’t agree more. We believe Tuaopepe, and the Samoa sports fraternity, should not let this go. They should insist on fighting this for the sake of women athletes, the truth and fairness.

Ironically when the kiwi athlete was asked about competing against women, Hubbard responded: "I think you have to be true to yourself.”

Really? Well why cannot Hubbard do us all a favour then, be “true to yourself” and compete in the division where Hubbard rightfully belongs? What do you think?

[quote]I bet Otago will end up apologising.

I doubt it - we are not as brainwashed by the trans brigade over here yet.

Your masculine privilege and your tiny dripping dick is showing, sad tranny twat at r24

Put your oh-so-intact-balls in a blender and stream it on the Internet. Your screams will delight everyone.

Trans should be a separate category.

I wonder if some of this is driven by media depictions of women as men's physical equals. G.I. Jane, that 90 lb woman in Designated Survivor who tussles with male operatives, etc. Is it possible that many people are simply unaware of the degree of sexual dimorphism in humans? Do we really need "studies" to tell us that artificially and possibly temporarily lowering the testosterone levels of mature biological males does not make them physically equivalent to females?

Wait, you're telling me that Angelina Jolie can't really beat up a man twice her size???

R29 I’ve been wondering the same thing. From Buffy the Vampire Slayer to all the superhero movies, it’s been going on for 20 years. Tiny women are shown kicking giant men’s asses when in reality those men are able to subdue the woman easily. Anyone who doubts me should set up an arm wrestling match and see what happens.

People have been led to believe by Hollywood that there isn’t much sexual dimorphism in terms of strength. In reality when a man and a woman are matched for height and weight the man will have approximately twice the upper body strength of the woman.

Congratulations to her.

He’s not a “her” r32....he is huge ogreish man, with a huge dripping dick between his legs

Let him complete in the male competitions, with other big men with big swinging balls between their legs

I'm 100% Team Martina on this one. It's so obvious that this is so unfair against female competitors and not at all a fair playing field. Rhonda Rousey, at one time considered the best female MMA fighter in the world could not roll with same sized 16 year amateur male wrestlers (although she tried her best) during training. There are so many examples like this.

As mentioned before, the only fair and equitable way to resolve this is to create a third category for transsexuals and let them compete against each other. At this point, isn't this just common sense? Men and women are born differently and no mid life transition creates an equal playing field. If I decided that I was developmentally disabled and competed in the Special Olympics would that be fair, or am I way off base?

I'm surprised it's as low as 63%, R8. I browsed through the r/asktransgender subreddit a few years ago (it was around the time Bruce Jenner became Caitlyn, and I wanted to learn more about trans issues) and I was shocked by how many of them talked about stealing women's underwear, feeling turned on by imagining themselves to be lesbians, hating "cis" women, etc.

He’s a full-on cheater & should be ashamed of himself. His entire family should be embarrassed.

Jordan Peterson had Joe Rogan on his podcast recently and they discussed this issue again, and at one point they make that very point, r36. It's a great clip.

Future generations are going to be astonished that this sort of thing was allowed to happen.

The very brave @goinglikeelsie went to cover the Jonathan Yaniv "human rights" ball-waxing case (since the media would not) and holy shit, it's a doozy...

R6 = Daily Mail writer

Ahhh, I love to relax and watch Youtube videos on Sunday nights, don't you? ; )

Even the Guardian is starting to take a more critical look at this subject now.

"women’s testosterone levels range from 0.52 to 2.42 nanomoles per litre, while men’s are 10.41 to 34.70nmol/L. Meanwhile the IOC guidelines for transgender athletes, published in 2015, require them to drop their levels to 10nmol/L for 12 months in order to compete as women – a figure much higher than normal."

I can't support trans women or trans girls compteting with other women. It's not fair to women.

Most other things I would probably support, but I would have to look at it on a case by case basis.

It’s all, or nothing r43

Unless you want to be vilified as a bigot

I know they wouldn’t win, but do any trans men (ie, born women, take T to become “men”) compete with actual men?

How embarrassing, to stand there and accept a medal for beating real women. It’s not even a competition.

It’s like me being smug about beating my 6-year old niece at Scrabble.

I find it hard to get worked up about any sports results.

Really, who cares?

R45, Yes. There is at least one. I think he is a runner or biker and competing in adult age group events, so it’s not so high stakes. He does quite well. I forget the name.

The Last Gold is a documentary about the US and East German women’s swim teams at the 1976 olympics. It is quite good. The US women were robbed and they still feel it. Most athletes had short careers and that was even truer back then, especially for women. So that was supposed to be the pinnacle of their careers. Not only were they robbed, but the woman who spoke out got bad press for being a spoil sport.

The East German women arguably had it worse. They had no idea what was going on.

I think the current situation in women’s sports is analogous, except the trans competitors know what they are doing. In five years this won’t be allowed, but that will be too late for some girls/women.

Yes, R38 they will. It is so archaic, the way physicians handle this. It is a chemical issue----and yet, they think butchering is what should be done.

In 20 years, people will pop a pill for this syndrome (mind/body disconnect) and it will be handled.

[quote]I know they wouldn’t win, but do any trans men (ie, born women, take T to become “men”) compete with actual men?

There’s a FTM runner at r48 notes. She’s sponsored by Nike and was in some ads back in 2016. Then there’s an FTM in the Harvard Men’s swim team, but her times are abysmal and she usually DNF/DNQ.

Trannies should have their own competitions against each other only. It's patently unfair to real females to allow some big bruiser male who dresses like a female to compete against them.

R51, that’s what I think. And then the women will beat the men for once, haha.

Or want to be imprisoned with men?

53 was for r45

"I find it hard to get worked up about any sports results."

Then you are the LAST person whose opinion on this should matter.

You know, I haven't watched any bit of the Olympics since the Tonya Harding affair, but even I'm appalled by this. It's egregiously unfair. And I honestly think this is what will bring a lot of people to peak trans and start pushing back.

Why do threads on Yaniv keep getting deleted? I've seen outright racist threads on this site that have been allowed to stand.

Blaire White, a tranny with a dick that she makes no apologies about, weighs in on the subject of Yaniv abomination

"Blaire White, a tranny with a dick that she makes no apologies about, weighs in on the subject of Yaniv abomination"

Why is nobody, including Blaire, talking about the elephant in the room? Blaire started out as a gay man. There isn't a woman alive who is afraid of THAT kind of transwoman. They are afraid of the ones who started out as-- and let's face it, remain-- straight men; the ones who call themselves "lesbians" now. It's ridiculous that these two groups are lumped into the same category, because they're just not the same.

I've said before on DL and I'm sure many of you have come to the same conclusion: the 2020 Tokyo Olympics are going to make this issue impossible to ignore. BTW what do you think will happen when the democrats/democratic nominee is expected to offer an opinion on this, a mere 3 months before the election. He or she will get slammed no matter which position he or she takes... not good.

Honestly though, I've always thought that if there is a legit concern with trans women in women's sport, then that will reveal itself by having trans women grossly over-represented in the winner's circles, which will make it clear that they have an unfair advantage. IF there really is no issue, then trans women won't abnormally dominate the events in which they compete, and nobody will care anyway. We/I don't know for sure which way this will go at the olympic level, but given the complete dominating already going on (like this trans weightlifter) I can hazard a guess.

r21 Prepare to change your position to the party line or be branded an irredeemable bigot literal nazi alt-right russian troll. There is ZERO room for a reasonable, middle-of-the-road position in the gender wars, to the detriment of many rational liberals.

[QUOTE]r60 the 2020 Tokyo Olympics are going to make this issue impossible to ignore.

OMG ! ! !

WILL WE [italic]SLEEP[/italic] TILL THEN ? ? ?

"IF there really is no issue, then trans women won't abnormally dominate the events in which they compete, and nobody will care anyway."

I'm pretty sure the girls who lose scholarships, and the women who don't make the cut for Olympic teams, and the "menstruators" who are injured while playing contact team sports, will care. ANY space taken is taken from a girl/woman. Are you really saying that if a female competitor "only" loses 3rd or 4th place it's no big deal and women just have to suck it up?

You are right: There is no middle of the road. Males do not belong in female sports, period.

Still no Jezebel articles about either Jessica Yaniv or Laurel Hubbard. What a surprise.

R62 What I mean is, if there is actually no unfair advantage and a female loses out on a scholarship to a trans woman, then it would be like losing out to any other female--them's the brakes. If trans women DO have an unfair advantage (which they pretty likely do, and they ESPECIALLY do when the trans woman is on zero hormone therapy and is functionally equivalent to a male, as is the case with the CT runners), then the female losing the scholarship WILL have suffered a real harm. And yes, I agree with you, that sucks for the females affected, who are forced into a position of collateral damage while society does it's best to pretend this unfair situation doesn't exist. Sadly those girls are going to learn earlier than they should have to that sometimes life fucks you and is unfair and there's nothing you can do about it. They were sacrificed at the alter of "wokeness" and way too many liberals would blame the GIRLS for calling out the unfairness for what it is.

[quote] Still no Jezebel articles about either Jessica Yaniv or Laurel Hubbard. What a surprise.

I just did a google news search on "yaniv" and pretty much every recent reference is to a news site that would get squeals of protest if linked here. The progressive and mainstream sources have almost totally swept it under the carpet. If nothing else this self censorship illustrates why you can't rely on getting your news from only one point of view.

I did see this though.

"The transgender woman who filed gender-identity discrimination complaints against mostly poor, immigrant women for refusing to bikini wax biological male genitalia is seeking permission to hold three “topless” swims for people ages 12 and up, and parents would be barred from attending. Jessica Yaniv is scheduled to appear before the Township of Langley Council in British Columbia, Canada, July 22 at 7:00 pm to ask for permission for an “All-Bodies Swims” at three community pools where individuals, including girls as young as 12, will be permitted to be topless. The swim is for kids who identify as “LGBTQ2S+”

I didn't notice any follow up. I wonder if they dared deny him approval.

Jesus Fucking Christ r65 that's absolute lunacy. Any parent who drops their kid off for Doggie Paddl'in with Pedophiles needs to be fucking shot.

Is Lady Low-Hangers at r21 going to return and offer up zheir argument in defense of swim time?

Lesbian heroine suspended from facebook.

Miriam Ben-Shalom, the first lesbian to be reinstated to the U.S. Army after being booted over her sexual orientation has been banned from Facebook for 30 days.

"I doubt that I will get out of Facebook jail, but I have asked for a review since all my page is private and for friends only and the picture was never posted publicly and was reported as a result of a hack".

Congrats, ma'am.

OMG! I'm pregnant?

No, you have prostate cancer.

So many sexual predators and paedophiles who've suddenly decided overnight that they "identify as woman" yet still the TRA movement would prefer to pretend that transwomen are just a billion times more likely to be rapists and pedos, than admit that straight cis-male predators are exploiting trans legislation for their own purposes.

There’s a bit more to that story r65. The parents-free LGBT+ swim was not originated by JY, but by a local non profit called iirc Encompass. Encompass claims they’ve been hosting this event for a while now and yes it is billed for ages 12-24, no parents or caregivers allowed (how abilist for kids who need caretakers!) and that all the transboys aka tween and teen girls, can chose to swim topless to “affirm their trans bodies” or whatever.

Because nothing affirms your masculinity like a 24 year old dude ogling adolescent breasts.

When the swim for this year was postponed (no doubt thanks to community outrage) JY took it up as a cause.

Political correctness run amok.

Although to step back a bit, I wonder, why do we have women's sports at all? Isn't that a bit patriarchal and demeaning to women? "Ok you little weaklings, we will do your own little sports event on your own, just so you can win occasionally." We don't do that on the job or academically -- why do it in sports?

Sports should just be sports, period. Women should be able to join all teams, and if they are as good as the men, be right there with them on the track or in the team.

R72 has a point. Why are woman so coddled? Let them complete with the men.

For the same reason we have weight classes. And age groups. And why high school teams don’t play colleges. The vast, vast majority of athletes NEVER compete against the best of the best. The categories allow more participation and let really talented athletes develop.

There's such a huge fuss about the women and the men being paid the same on the US soccer teams, which is hilariously PC and complete hypocricy. The women do not play to anything near the standard on the men. The US women's team would be blown off the field by even a mediocre men's world cup soccer team. That's why the men are paid more.

But what's being said is, when it comes to competition, we need our own special junior league, for girls only. But when it comes to comp, the pay should be the same. It's a delightful double standard very indicative of the age we live in (and a product of the same hypocrisy that says "if you call yourself a woman, you are one).

That's not really the case here r74, because there are not different weight or age classes for the world cup. There is just the world cup. And then there's the world cup for girls.

If there are weight and age classes, that's fine -- just let men and women of those weights and ages compete together.

R74 here. I’m not talking about the World Cup. But since you asked, the women’s team should get paid less because women’s soccer is a less popular sport than men’s soccer. Not because they aren’t as good, which they aren’t. Just like female gymnasts and figure skaters make more than male gymnasts and figure skaters.

r77, imo, one thing derives from another.

Go dilate Bootsy, you’ll feel better.

" Not because they aren’t as good, which they aren’t" - being female is a specific biological 'condition'. They aren't as 'good' because their bodies are different. They shouldn't be penailised for something that they were born as.

How many times have the men won the World Cup?

Every time there's been a World Cup, the men win it....

Bootsy, has it ever occurred to you that women shouldn't need your permission to have their own athletic teams? And really don't give a shit whether you think they're "LOL junior leaugue LOL" or not?

r72

[quote] why do we have women's sports at all?

Nobody has responded to you yet (probably because the answer is mundanely obvious) but the reason why women's sport exists is because without it women couldn't compete. It gets brought up on these threads every once in a while--but is still a shocking fact to the uninitiated--that there really aren't "women's" and "men's" leagues, there are actually "women's" leagues and OPEN leagues. The "men's" leagues don't actually explicitly ban women from competing--a woman, given that she met the qualifications and requirements, could be recruited into the NFL. It's never happened (yet?!) because women's bodies aren't able to function at that level (and with increasing awareness of CTE, arguably men's bodies aren't either/shouldn't be). In actual, non-woke reality, the BEST man will virtually always beat the BEST woman in competitive sport, male and female bodies are just too different to overcome the natural advantages that males have (such as narrower hips for more efficient running, broader shoulders for larger reach and wind-up potential, and on and on). That's why women's sport exists, so that women can play too.

Because that's FAIR. Yes, we have biological differences, but understanding those, we have come up with a system where the BEST of each sex can compete in sport equally. It's NOT fair to move the categories around and pretend that we didn't.

Careful r83....the pro trans troll will gut you if he gets the chance.

glad there are people sticking up for Womans’ rights.

Sometimes, it's hard to be a woman.

FFS he has armpit hair. That’s a man. Not a woman.

Plenty of women have armpit hair, R87. Testicles? Not so much.