Does Retinol really help skin... Or ruin it?

Apparently Retinol is unstable when sunlight hits it, so that's why some put it on during the night. That said, I'm very skeptical over serums and anything that claims to be 'anti-aging'. Genetics and your diet and lifestyle are better indicators of how you will age.

Retin-A/Tretinoin, yes.

Retinol is a soundalike for the active treatment.

Retinol is a pale derivative.

If that's what you think, fine. So what are you asking? Prove me wrong?

To elaborate, I have been researching skincare a bit lately (I've had a rough time in the last few years and it certainly shows on my skin ) and I keep hearing that retinol is the gold standard of anti aging. But delve into skincare forums and it appears a sizable number of people have experienced very negative reactions to retinol, even in small amounts. I'm talking enlarged pores, rough texture, etc. I'm personally wary of the ingredient and interested in alternatives. I already have a healthy diet so I'm looking at topicals. But I'm curious what others think. After all, everyone here looks at least 10 years younger!

I've been using Tree of Life retinol serum from Amazon ($11/mo). Sometimes I run out and forget to order more, as I have a few other small bottles of stuff. I can tell when I haven't used retinol for a couple weeks. The area between my eyelid and eyebrow gets these lines, nor wrinkles but maybe the muscles or whatever that lift my eyebrow become much more prominent.

Can a person ask their primary doctor for a Retin-A prescription or must one go to a dermatologist?

OP, to your post at R4, I hasten to add that you have to wear sunscreen religiously with retinol and Retin-a.

I use Biore Watery Essence SPF 50 (or 80?). It absorbs instantly and isn't greasy or irritating to the eyes. Have to order it online as it's a Japanese import.

R5 I believe you have to ask your derm but I'm not entirely sure

R5 Just order it from All Day Chemist. The DL go-to pharmacy. Much cheaper and no hassle. Muriel said not to link to them, so just Google.

R8 Those Retin A boxes don't look like the boxes I remembered. Plus, they spell the word Retin as Retino.

Hmmmm....

They are Indian brands r9. Just as good as the shit that gets peddled over here, only far less.

You could go to a derm, get a consulation, and an initial US script. See how it goes, then once you have a good feel for what skincare products work best for you, buy them overseas.

I've been on Retinal A for about ten years. It worked great for fine lines. I doubt I can get another prescription because I have just one or two pimples. Plus, I'm older. I might have to try out this out one day.

I used tree of life too, but I prefer Neutrogena. That's if I can't get my hands on retin A. If you have pores or adult acne.. you'll need retinol. It really does make a difference, it just takes longer than the prescribed stuff

With reinoids, ahas and bhas, you need to use high factor sunscreen all the time. If you don't, you will indeed suffer skin damage from the sun. Retinoids should be used at night only. Never use retinoids and vit C serums at the same time.

Vitamin c serum is actually bad for the face. It does exactly the opposite of what it claims to do. This info is recent. If your skin is getting used to retinoids and is feeling somewhat raw, it can make you more susceptible to sun damage. I think the benefits outweigh the risks of more sun damage because your skin does eventually get used to it and the burning/raw sensation does eventually subside. Using retinoids is like a slow sandblasting of the skin thus promoting cell turnover (new skin). And yes, definitely use at night. People should use a sunscreen regardless.

R14 I had never heard that topical vitamin c is bad for the face. Is it to harsh or something?

Sorry, I can't link for some reason. Google for facial products from a place called The Ordinary. They offer several products, including differing strengths of retinols. Their products are great and are extremely reasonable. I use one of their retinols at night and their Vitamin C in the am. I have not seen any claims that Vitamin C is dangerous, but I don't follow that kind of stuff. My derm swears by Vitamin C--says if you only use one product, C is the one.

I swear by Vitamin D facials.

If vitamin c serum is making your skin feel burned like it always does with me, then stop using it. It's supposed to detoxify but often leaves people feeling raw and burned. That rawness is not skin renewed or cell turnover as it is with a retinoid, it's actually skin damage. There's a word for it, you'll have to Google.

Think about it... Vitamin c is acid. Also, consider what kind of products your derm is selling. They always swear by products they sell in the office. Wouldn't take much stock in that. My derm wanted me to buy 150$ skin lightening cream. I found a ten dollar one instead that had the same 2% hydroquinone and it worked just fine.

R19, My derm doesn't sell any products.

The only two products with the research to back them up and proven to be anti-aging are retinoids and sunscreen.

Whoever was using the Biore, it's 50, they don't sell 80 that I know of and it's the law of diminishing returns on sunscreen over 50 spf anyway. SPF 100 isn't twice as protective as SPF 50, it might be 2% more effective.

The Biore is great (I prefer the watery gel), Canmake Mermaid Skin is great, Elta MD Pure is also great. Japanese sunscreen is the only thing I've worn for years. I can't stand American sunscreens, so heavy and gloppy and gross.

I only wear sunscreen from the US. I do not trust most research from other places.

How unfortunate for you, R22. In Japan and Europe they have much more cosmetically elegant formulas than we have in the US. They are made with better ingredients that are more effective and lighter on the skin.

However, any dermatologist worth his or her salt will tell you that the best sunscreen is the one you'll actually put on every day. If you prefer the heavy American glop, go for it. It's worth nothing that science hasn't noted any increase in Japanese or European skin cancers because of their sunscreens. Their rates are actually much lower than ours.

^^^ Should be "worth NOTING" but it's probably worth nothing to you, R22. Glop away!

Totally off topic, but what is with this trend of putting the dollar sign AFTER the number? It's not 150$ it is fucking $150.

Is this a sign of home schooling.? I just want to know when it will it end.

Mary!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Spelling it out as I type in my head, a thoughtless shortcut . Nope I was not home schooled! What's with all of your exclamation points?

Miss Jane) You can't use LYE soap on Ellie Mae's beautiful, delicate skin

Granny) I've been using LYE soap for ne'e on to 50 years and feel my hands

Miss Jane) They're like leather

Granny) Yeah, nice ain't they.

My PCP prescribed Retin-A...I didn’t have to go to a dermatologist.

I’ve been using Retin-A, off and on, since I was a teenager. I really started to use consistently when I reached 40. I use the highest concentration, every other night. You MUST moisturize over the Retin-A. Retina-A smoothes my skin, and it draws out the oils which build up under my skin. I always use sun screen. Now, at 48, I do not have a single facial wrinkle. However, my sister and cousin, who are 46 and 39, do not have single wrinkle either.

I recommend a good sunscreen to protect, and Oil of Rhinoceros for suppleness and firming.

I’ve alternated retin-a and retinol for years and my skin looks amazing . I did have to go through an initial ugly stage with the retin-a however. It seems to get worse before it gets better . I have seen the negative posts about it but all research still proves that they’re the best products in skin care to this day . Lots of research backing it up . They also can help get rid of pre-cancerous lesions . I recommend you start with a quality retinol at night and get used to it and then just ask your Gp for retin-a. Sunblock is a must for these products as they turn the skin over at a very fast rate , but you will have amazing skin! Just have to hang in there for the duration . If it’s too drying get some squalene oil to put on top or I recommend starting in the fall unless you will be out of the sun for the summer months . If you’re sensitive, then start using a couple of times a week and build up . That’s for both retinol or retin-a . Hope this helps .

Retinol does not "ruin" skin. It increases cell turnover, therefore causing skin to behave more like it did when it was younger. Having said that, anything that removes dead layers of cells, like retinol, retin-a, alpha or beta hydroxy, etc., leaves your skin more vulnerable to the sun (and the sun really DOES ruin your skin), so you must make sure to always wear a uva/uvb sunscreen of at least spf 15 (some say spf 30 now) every day, even if you sit anywhere near a window INDOORS. Make sure at least one of the active sunscreen ingredients is ZINC, TITANIUM OR AVOBENZONE (NOT OXYBENZONE!). Those are the the ONLY reliable UVA sunscreens available (and UVA rays are the more damaging of the 2 types because they penetrate the skin more deeply).

The Ordinary makes some great, inexpensive retinol products.

Am I the only one who feels that sunscreen is a scam? Unless if you burn easily of course. The sunphobia is actually causing a rise of vitamin d deficiency.

R32 I only put sunscreen on my face, unless I'm at the beach or pool. Getting some sun on your arms or legs is enough for the vitamin D, and you don't have to wreck your face.

Do you also believe that the moon landing was faked and that Osama bin Laden is still alive, R32? The notion that sunscreen application results in vitamin D deficiency is absurd. You do realize that there is documented, peer-reviewed literature on this very thing, right? Anything that says the contrary is specious science.

R34 People have been walking naked in the sun for thousands of years. Why is it that there are people who manage to look young and blemish free even with the sun? There's a profit motive to be made for the sunscreen industry. I think we need to rethink our relationship to the sun. Of course this depends on a lot of factors as there's no one size fits all. Diet seems to play a role in this. Stay away from polyunsaturated fats and vegetable oils (though olive oil is good for you), as this seems to make you more susceptible to sun damage.

Aspirin wash/scrub once or twice a week.

R35 is an ignorant fucking headcase.

Sunscreen is real, people, its benefits and protection are real. Skin cancers are on the rise world-wide. Wear sunscreen on your face every single day. Wear it on any exposed skin areas but definitely on your face.

All kinds of products make all kinds of claims to slow the aging process on your skin but the two with sufficient research and data proving they actually work are retinoids and sunscreen. Use them.

Actually, consistent sunscreen use does lower vit D levels. This happened to me. So I now take vit D3 supplements and my vit D levels are in the optimal range.

R37 Sunscreen use does prevent burns, but where are the studies that show daily sunscreen use for over a decade or more slows the aging process?

I also use the Tree of Life Retinol serum and moisturizer at night and whatever few fine lines I had around my eyes are totally gone and I never break out anymore. I use their vitamin C serum in the morning after washing my face and it's really evened out my skin, but it's a very weak formula. I believe it's only 5% concentration, whereas The Ordinary and higher end brands are more like 20% and some people may have to ease into it. The Ordinary is a good brand for skincare in general, but the only daily sunscreen I've found that doesn't leave me greasy or leave a white cast is Neutrogena AgeShield, which also doubles as a moisturizer. Skin cancer runs in my family so I wear sunscreen religiously. Be sure to put it on your ears, anywhere your scalp is exposed, the top of your forehead and the back of your neck - all common places where melanoma tends to creep up. I do that double cleansing thing the Koreans recommend at night, too. The Koreans and the Japanese really know their shit when it comes to skincare.

I started out with Tree of Life last year and switched to tretinoin .025 in January. Thanks to the retinol I had very little irritation when I switched. Started on .05 tretinoin last month. I use Hada Labo Perfect Gel and the CVS knockoff of CeraVe to moisturize...so far, no major issues. As for sunscreen, I like the Japanese ones but there's another one I like from Canada called Ombrelle, manufactured by Garnier. Why can't we have nice things here?

Does anyone watch Dr. Dray on YouTube? She's a bit of an odd duck, but I generally trust her opinions about products.

Here's the first thing that popped up, R39. Is your google broken?

And there's this:

The NY Times.

From the NIH library.

Make sure you apply it correctly or you're fucked.

[quote]Does anyone watch Dr. Dray on YouTube? She's a bit of an odd duck, but I generally trust her opinions about products.

I do trust her opinion on dermatological products, and I daresay that I enjoy watching her videos at times. But I think she's anorexic and I mean that literally. There are several medical professionals who have opined the same. She's dangerously thin, to the point that it's oftentimes painful to watch her. Plus, it looks like she got her veneers off Amazon. They're terrible and I can't understand why she didn't go to a better dentist.

I gather that she's VERY much the odd duck. She quit a lucrative practice to film YouTube videos and her views are not such that they would generate anywhere close to the same amount of income that her medical career did.

Anyone saying that sunscreen is unnecessary or that it causes dangerously low vitamin D levels is simply uninformed. I'm forty and I've used a retinoid every night since I was fourteen. I started out with Retin A Micro and now use Tazorac. There's not a wrinkle on my face and people routinely think I'm in my early thirties. I've even had people ask me WHEN I'll turn thirty. Yes, I've had several fractionated CO2 laser treatments over the last few years and I did have my upper and lower eyes done, but the effects of nightly retinoid use on the skin is undeniable. If you want real results use a retinoid not retinol. My plastic surgeon once said that retinol is a fan whereas a retinoid is a jet engine.

[quote] If you have pores or adult acne.. you'll need retinol.

There are people without "pores"?

Just don't be fair-skinned and you'll be alright.

I had fractionated co2 laser done earlier this year r47 and could not believe the affect it had on my skin! OMG it was like a baby's butt and it glowed. My derm said you can do it every six month and I'm saving to have it done again. It was really amazing. It was $$$ though. My treatment was $3500.00 and it took me a week to 10 days to be presentable. No pain at all though.

I had Erbium-yag laser a number of times some years back, worked great. The post-op was unpleasant, to say the least.

I used retinol for a while and noticed a big improvement but after about six months it started to irritate my skin very badly, so I discontinued using it. I was disappointed because when it worked it was great.

r24, i'm not convinced. i only wear physical sunscreens. keep your chemicals.

I prefer physical sunscreens also, R53, but I'll periodically use chemical absorbers if need be. Cotz makes some of the very best physical sunscreens around, especially if you need something water proof. Josie Maran's Daily Moisturizer is also fantastic for daily use but it's not water resistant. It's an SPF of 47. The Asian chemical sunscreens are FAR superior to anything in the US. Hada-Labo's Gokujyun Perfect UV Gel is, ingredients wise, about the best protection science can offer in a chemical sunscreen. It's absurd that the FDA has not approved Tinosorb S and M, Mexoryl and Uvinul A Plus. They are infinitely more stable than ANYTHING the United States has to offer and perfectly safe.

R54 is spot on - Japanese, Korean and some Taiwanese sunscreens are clinically proven to be more effective against sun damage and it's absurd that the FDA hasn't approved their ingredients which have been proven for years to be perfectly safe. I get mine off Amazon, but I always read the reviews first because people do sell fake shit on there.

I'd rather have physical sunscreens too, but I haven't found one yet that didn't pill or leave a white cast, and I've tried a bunch.

I use bare minerals to match my skin tone. I think it’s SPF 25, so not great. I hate the chemical sunscreens and since my skin is fairly oily, it isn’t obvious that I’m wearing makeup.

R52 Just use it less often. Every other day or 2-3 times a week.

R54 R55 Yes, the Japanese and Koreans have their shit together when it comes to sunscreen. Our FDA is seriously fucked up when it comes to that...we don't even have a UVA ratings system (the spf only refers to the UVB) and the UVA rays are the ones that do all the damage. Also the fact that the FDA allowed sunscreens with Oxybenzone be labeled as "broad spectrum" for DECADES when it doesn't protect from UVA rays was criminal, giving people a false sense of security. Now they're banning Oxybenzone because there's evidence of it killing coral reefs. Thank goodness.

Does anybody use Ombrelle sunscreen? Is it only available in Canada or can you get it in the EU and Australia?

There are a lot of good sunscreen ingredients that the FDA still hasn't approved in the US. They'd rather let people use Oxybenzone and Octinoxate and get skin cancer.

R54, are you the Carol who wrote a book on sunscreen? Biology of Beauty???

Does anyone else find that zinc oxide is drying to their skin?

It is drying, R62. It's in many serums and moisturizers for oily acne-prone skin for that reason. If you use a physical sunscreen and don't have very oily skin, you'll need to layer it over a good moisturizer.

R54 r55 r58 agree on the sunscreens. The American dermatological associations just love pushing that disgusting, cancer causing and hormone disrupting neutrogena shit on the unsuspecting public. I've never bought the bullshit line the fda pushes about not approving sunscreens over "safety concerns ". Ingredients like mexoryl have been safely used in Europe for years while oxybenzone has been established to be unsafe. I Wonder what the real reason they won't approve it is.

R62 when I was using zinc oxide sunscreen on a regular basis my skin looked really awful. The pores were huge and the skin was dried out and dull. American Dermatologists push zinc but it is not for everyone. Frankly I'm distrustful of US based dermatologists because of all the crappy stuff they recommend. They're always pushing cetaphil (crap) and nasty sub-par American sunscreens. I wish the American dermatological association would just come out and admit that American sunscreens are shit instead of recommending stuff that doesn't work and might cause other problems.

I had bad skin a few years ago and changed what I did and for the first time in my life I love my skin and I’m almost 40. I now wash my face with nothing but African black soap. I use cetaphil day cream and night cream and also in the morning out the ordinary buffet serum on before my moisturizer. I also use rose water and witch hazel toner on my face after I wash it at night. I have rosacea and after I started using all of the products I use now the outbreaks stopped. I also avoid sunlight and don’t smoke and drink maybe once a month. My parents didn’t take care of their skin and my dads a smoker and alcoholic but they still look pretty good so I guess our genetics are pretty good.

OP - save your amateur hunches and theories for the frau forums or garbage cans. Retinoid - OID - Retin-A - does help skin. You aren't using it, apparently. Dumb twat.

Wow. You sound so sexy R66. Any men on this site? Yes, retinol is fine. The white boys with fragile china plate skin love it. But a decent moisturizer and sunscreen is all you need. If you have problem skin, buy Neutrogena or Cetaphil or Cerave. Any dermatologist who doesn't sell shit will tell you that these are the best products. And they'll say which ones are best for y'all.

You're either a sinker or a wrinkler. (unfortunate lives are both) And whites spend SO much money trying not to wrinkle when their face is already sunk with the meat hanging off the bone.

R67 is being a angry ,nasty little cunt a side effect of retinol? And yes dimwit, retinol can damage skin that is predisposed to sensitivity. Why the fuck would I want to risk side effects like orange peel skin and extreme irritation if there are other gentler alternatives out there? Now go moisturize your peeling skin you narrow minded bitch.

True, R69, Retin-A won't play nicely with your Morgellons nor your organic Ketogenic Snacks.

R70 You don't have to be a granola hippie to want to avoid slathering on something that causes a layer of skin to peel off. Idiot.

Is your dermatologist Dr. Robert Bobby? The one with the bad skin, and the office in the strip mall?

i'm gonna sit here with my legs spread and air out my mussy.

Pew.

I have extremely oily skin and I want to try a low concentration of retinol to help reduce oil, as I have heard retinol dries out skin.

r75 A quality niacinamide formula will have a better effect if you want to reduce sebum production. It'll give you flawless skin faster than retinol.

r76, I am using that exact niacinamide product right now! It is working, but my nose is still too oily for me. I have seb derm, and you would not believe the amount of oil my face can generate, especially around the nose area. I want to experiment with something more heavy duty.

R75 That's correct. Retinol does dry out your skin. When it was prescription only, it was a common course of treatment for severe acne. It was "discovered" by hausfraus who find it helped remove fine lines. It's an acid. There's no FDA category for "anti aging". That's marketing hyperbole.

r77 Oh, nice. Have you tried blotting paper and/or mineral powder just for the nose? Or is that still not enough?

Friend uses it he seems to have less wrinkles but his face looks ...

r79 I've tried EVERYTHING, including some pricey primers. Im probably going to still use a little primer but I want to use less of it

Retinol at prescription levels causes increased collagen production, which will slow down wrinkle formation. Newer research also indicates that prescription strength retinol can slow the development of precancerous lesions known as actinic keratosis.

I have been using Retin A for decades, first for acne and now for wrinkles/cancer prevention.

R77 I find that zinc oxide really calms my seb derm down. If I have a flare up, a cream with a high percentage of zinc oxide clears it up the fastest and seems to reduce oil production.

Tretinoin/retin-a doesn't irritate my skin at all after a few month of use. I was starting to see the beginning of fine lines, but they seem to have disappeared with continued use and AHA in my off days. It certainly isn't ruining my skin.