The stores, they are a-closin'

Simple steps to solve this problem: Get off your fucking ass Leave your house Go to a shopping center Deal with idiots Buy return home.

This is not an economy issue but a buyer's preference issue

There's no glamour to shopping anymore. There was a time when it was special to get dressed up and go to a store. Of course, stores were an experience onto themselves. They were elegantly decorated and made you feel like you were special from the moment you walked in.

R2 dialed the phone with a pencil, for sure.

R2 is correct.

Just more racing to the bottom, R3.

But you're too stupid to realize it. Sucks to be you.

R4 I wasn't disagreeing with R2.

Not sure why you suddenly decided to serve turbocunt......

Most of those stores had no business being open in the first place. Charming Charlie? Wtf?

Wherefore art thou, Radio Shack?

I recall department stores were really quiet. The one near me had a really deep carpet.

You don't think, R1, it couldn't have anything to do with poor planning on the company's part? Over-saturation of stores? Poor timing?

I've gone into stores only to be told by disinterested staff to "go home and order online" because they didn't have the ADVERTISED items in the store.

R10 Yes, many stores are terrible with that.

Penneys almost never has any items online OR in store.

[quote]So far, 7,062 store closures have been announced by U.S. retailers this year

But 7,060 of the stores were Dollar General and Dollar Tree

[quote]Of course, stores were an experience onto themselves.

Oh, dear!

Bed Bath & Beyond is even worse, r10, r11.

They never have anything in the store that’s on their website. It’s so frustrating.

Looking at the stores in the OP’s article, I would never waste my time shopping in any of them

Why would I want to spend gas money and my time to go to a store with totally untrained, thoroughly entitled clueless "customer service" personnel? Don't they realize we have alternatives? In 2 different major chains they even forgot to remove the security tags and then acted like it was my fault for not realizing their mistakes.

At least at the 99 Cent Store I get outstanding treatment, especially as compared to the grocery store chains.

Family Dollar and Dollar Tree are merging many of their stores. They're generally more expensive than 99 Cent Stores and do not have superior merchandise.

Victoria's Secret was beyond rude to countless customers, and now they've got many, many online competitors offering superior quality, cheaper prices, and an extremely broad range of sizes. Fuller figure minority women have had it with VS condescending attitude. Good riddance.

Shopping centers are charging outrageous prices for retail space, especially since serious security issues with the rise of gang violence. That's the #1 reason for stores closing. Many no longer feel safe shopping.

People like ordering stuff online, and when they do shop that like hitting up Walmart and Target type places that have everything.

And then there was the time I asked for a measuring tape in Victoria's Secret and nobody, NOBODY, had one.

I haven't shopped in a clothing store in ylover a decade. I wear a uniform at work, and in my free time I just wear the same clothes I've had for years- most bought in thrift stores.

Of course, I'm a middle class male and that's a lot easier than people who have to dress for success or keep up with trends.

I did use a gift card to get some sneakers at JCP online.

Oh, they had one, r19. They just didn’t have the bolts of thread necessary to make the camisole in your particular size.

The tape they needed was down at the shipyard being used on new plans for a Carnival Cruise ship.

Stores that cater to people with real jobs like Barneys, Saks and Neiman Marcus are doing very well.

[quote] Simple steps to solve this problem

I don't consider it a problem that any of those chains are closing stores.

I would be happy to shop at my local mall and department stores if the checkout process wasn't a game of 20 questions: What is your zip code, what is your email, do you want to open a store card and save 10%, please please please fill out a survey and rate us Excellent in all areas, are you using our card today and on and on and on. UGH.

R24 Yep. It's why I hate going to Bath and Body Works.

I'm buying soap, bitch, why do you need my phone number?

it's the same questions online

Nooooooooo! Not Party City!

^I hate that shit, too. And on a related note, I hate that you cannot purchase a product or service anywhere, online or in person, without getting spammed with a zillion emails asking you to submit a review. I gave you my money, you gave me your product/service, transaction over.

I'm not sure security adds that much to the cost of retail space R17.After all, these are minimum-wage rent-a-cops. I think over-favorable tax structures make it appealing for landlords to let properties sit empty unless they can rent them for max $$$. OTOH, a mall in my city recently got permission from the city to have itself removed from the bus routes - no buses within a mile - because the bus crowd created problems and didn't buy anything.

[quote] a mall in my city recently got permission from the city to have itself removed from the bus routes - no buses within a mile - because the bus crowd created problems and didn't buy anything.

That's really interesting. I guess none of the mall workers use the bus either? Would you mind sharing where you are located?

Working retail has gotten worse too. I worked at Borders for awhile in the mid-90s. Pay was horrible, but I got full benefits and 40 hours a week with a fixed schedule. Now a lot pf companies do surge staffing where you won’t know your schedule until the week or day of, and they may schedule you for three hours during peak hours, let you go for a few hours, have you back later when it’s busy, etc.

[quote]I've gone into stores only to be told by disinterested staff to "go home and order online" because they didn't have the ADVERTISED items in the store.

Over the 4th of July holiday weekend, JCrew advertised a 40% Off Everything sale -- both online and in stores. So, I stopped in to pick up some crewneck shirts, but were told they were excluded from the sale. Later, I looked at their website and saw the same shirts WERE on sale for 40% off, so I purchased them online. The experience irritated me and makes me not want to go to their physical store anymore.

I find the stores that beg the most for surveys after performing the most basic of service (checkout) are the worst when there actually is a customer service issue. Kohls cashiers are always begging customers to fill out the survey and give them all "tens" yet when I had an issue with them (they sent me a USED, I repeat USED pillow where I could smell the former owner's scalp crud, Kohl's only answer was "sorry, we will retrain our employees", no offer of free pillow or extra discount or Kohl's cash, NOTHING". Same with CVS, even with the smallest purchase of a tin of altoids they immediately send an email survey asking a dozen questions about if the store was clean and the parking lot clean, etc. and yet when I had a majorly rude and offensive Cashier their standard retail scripted answer was "sorry, we will retrain employee". These are the stores begging for "Excellent" and "tens" on their surveys.

[quote][R2] dialed the phone with a pencil, for sure.

And this was her phone.

and this - in the bedroom

You bitches need to learn to escalate. If a business gives bad service or sends you a used pillow, you need to complain to the right people!!!

R36 wants to see the manager.

[quote]I haven't shopped in a clothing store in ylover a decade. I wear a uniform at work, and in my free time I just wear the same clothes I've had for years- most bought in thrift stores.

R20 DID NOT dial the phone with a pencil.

He probably had one of those cheap phones shaped like a Coke bottle.

R16 brings up a really good point with the comment on poor staffing, which I've noticed in a lot of larger stores. Employee-ability to properly assist customers is bad. We have several local Macy's stores (which were once Marshall Field's stores) that have basically whittled staff down to just a few sales associates covering big expanses in the stores, often several different neighboring departments. Further, in our area we've seen an increase in foreign residents who don't speak English particularly well. I've noticed this in Walmart stores as well. Coupled with low pay and what I can only presume is a crummy work environment, and you basically have no decent assistance, should a person need it. Of course, it isn't the fault of the sales personnel they can't properly converse with customers, or can't serve all customers due to being spread too thin. But it makes for a very frustrating experience as a consumer.

R22, is that actually true? Last I heard NM was in major financial trouble, with stores closing and a falling market price. Don't know much about Saks or Barneys as they aren't big players in my city. I do shop Nordstrom's frequently and I wouldn't include them in the above. They actually have excellent staff. I don't really consider Nordstroms in the same category as Neiman's, Barney's or Saks though.

[quote] You bitches need to learn to escalate. If a business gives bad service or sends you a used pillow, you need to complain to the right people!!!

Perhaps some of us have better things to do than go screaming for the head retail queen and will just not shop in the offending store again.

[R39] The Neimans and the Saks stores where I live (Washington DC) are always empty. I stopped going in there because the employees are so desperate for a sale, that I felt like I was being stalked on the Serengeti. Stores did used to be much more pleasant, with piano tinkling in the background and tea rooms.

"Tea Rooms"?

GAP is planning to close 230 stores.

GAP Playlist Guy might have to find a funeral playlist for them soon.

Why was Gap playlist guy fired from his job at GAP?

r24 I hate that shit too. Just let me pay, dammit, and stop interrogating me. I go clothes shopping so infrequently I don't want a store credit card or whatever else they're trying to push.

I also hate being asked 101 questions from the moment I open the door until I have my bag(s) in hand. Bath & Body Works is indeed the worst. Those fraus (yes they are for the most part) don't give up. I was laughing my ass off on $8 candle day when I kept hearing those 3 wick candles crashing to the floor every 30 seconds. Those fraus left you alone when they had to sweep up glass and huge chunks of mocha-scented wax.

[quote]a mall in my city recently got permission from the city to have itself removed from the bus routes - no buses within a mile - because the bus crowd created problems and didn't buy anything.

The higher-end, open-plan shopping villages aren't located along bus lines because of this very issue. You have to go to the mall if you want some ghetto realness as part of your shopping experience.

Bed, Bath & Beyond -- where a frau can be a frau.

[quote]with piano tinkling in the background

Oh how gauche. You really should use the restroom, another shopper may see you back there.

Further, when they're doing their 100-question sales pitch at the checkout they won't let up. When you give them a very polite "no thank you, not today," they still won't let up. They try to re-sell the pitch and you're thinking "BITCH I SAID NO!" I wonder if corporate is aware how annoying this is to so many customers. Even places like fucking Walgreens do this when you're buying two items.

[quote] We have several local Macy's stores (which were once Marshall Field's stores) that have basically whittled staff down to just a few sales associates covering big expanses in the stores

So many department stores have done this.

Sears and JCP followed the Kohl's idea, which was to have one or two registers open and maybe two or three other employees elsewhere in the store. Somehow, it tends to work better at Kohl's. I have waited for 20+ minutes at JCP and the only reason I still shop there is because of their coupons. Gave up on Sears years ago.

[quote] Perhaps some of us have better things to do than go screaming for the head retail queen and will just not shop in the offending store again.

Um, you don't ask to see someone in the store. You WRITE someone high up enough who is empowered enough to give you something to address your complaint.

As I said, you bitches don't know how to escalate.

R14 I’m done with Bed Bath etc. Service is so bad, registers never open. I went what has turned out to be my last time. I wanted to buy an electric toothbrush that they had on display. I was told they were out of them and didn’t know if they were even going to re-order them. So I complained that they should not have left one on display if they were going to discontinue the item. I’ve got your district manager on the phone who looked up the inventory for the store and found that the store hours that was a wash in those toothbrushes . I bought one but I’m not going back .

I have a big problem going on with John Lewis department store in London. They used to be really old fashioned and give a tremendous service all round. But those days are gone. They, like so many things in what was once gentle London, have become very aggressive and are quite horrible to their customers. Sign of the times. I will link to a website that is just endless complaints about them.

And they post a "tell us more" email address under the complaints - but don't actually respond to your emails when you send them.

Take a look >

If you really want to get back at a store do what I do. If you are clever, which I am, track down the name of the law firm and then the attorney who represents said corporation you didn’t get on the phone and you bitch to that individual, we’re talking attorneys who charge $500,00 if you really want to get back at a store do what I do. If you are clever, which I am, track down the name of the law firm and then the attorney who represents said corporation you then get on the phone and you bitch to that individual, we’re talking attorneys who charge $500 just go take my phone call. By the time I’m through I’ve caused a corporation thousands of dollars Or just one or two phone calls

[quote] Somehow, it tends to work better at Kohl's.

Because most Kohl's, at least the ones I've been to are designed to work that way, one or two entrances with cash registers at those entrances. Most Sears and JC Penney's are not designed for that type of operation. Recently, I went to my local Sears store and they had one register open on the first level and one on the second, and almost no employees in the other areas. I don't know how they aren't suffering huge shoplifting losses. The second floor cash register was located at an entrance, but there were no employees around the other two outside entrances and none at the two mall entrances. They didn't even have anyone at the Jewelry counter. If I was less of an honest person I would have tried something, since the jewelry counter keys were left in full view.

[quote]If you really want to get back at a store do what I do. If you are clever, which I am, track down the name of the law firm and then the attorney who represents said corporation

How do you find this out?

Stealing jewelry from SEARS R56?

Try to have a little dignity

Stealing jewelry from SEARS R56?

Try to have a little dignity

[quote] Because most Kohl's, at least the ones I've been to are designed to work that way, one or two entrances with cash registers at those entrances. Most Sears and JC Penney's are not designed for that type of operation

True, because Kohl's were built like that, whereas most JCPs and Sears are trying to retrofit old 1960s stores into that model. So now they get rid of all but one register a floor, and they put Bernice, who's 78 and shits herself, on one of those floors with ALL the household stuff, suitcases and workout stuff.

[R56] I’ve been tempted to shoplift out of frustration, due to not being able to find anyone to ring up my purchase. But then you know they’ll finally wake up, call security, and arrest you.

R59 They do have gold and diamonds, in the case. I wouldn't be surprised by someone stealing a bunch of gold items and then going to one of those cash for gold places.

We are whores for the bottom dollar. From our love of cheap electronics to the commodification of a barely-evolving agreed upon aesthetic at an entry-level retailer near you, we are in the end times of capitalism and consumerism, as well as civil discourse and a habitable environment, and it happened on all our watches.

Cheers.

[quote]I’ve got your district manager on the phone who looked up the inventory for the store and found that the store hours that was a wash in those toothbrushes .

Huh?

R55 is so clever he can’t even write a readable post.

Remind me to never go shopping with any of you bitches.

It’s pretty grim. The American Dream is synonymous with mounds of crap, and the upper classes are the worst offenders with their basements of home theaters, gyms, wine cellars and other crazy excess.

Truth, r66.

The up-and-coming generations don't like the one-size-fits-all approach of the big box chain stores. These kids are looking to generate content for their social media and, in their pictures, they don't want to be holding/wearing the same thing as everyone else. They want to post curated photos of themselves with things (including merchandise) that are unique and special.

This will give rise to small indie stores and mom-and-pop shops that can provide individualized products and services. Retail is moving back to Main Street, and the malls are like ghost towns.

I was just at Marshall’s and it was awful.

[quote] I was just at Marshall’s and it was awful.

It always is, but that's the devil's bargain for getting cheap as fuck shit there.

[quote] Um, you don't ask to see someone in the store. You WRITE someone high up enough who is empowered enough to give you something to address your complaint.

I also have better things to do that spend my days WRITING to the chief executive retail queen. If the store owes me a refund of a decent amount of money, I may escalate, but if it's just a matter of a clerk being cunty or incompetent, I'll simply stop shopping at that store.

Realistically, this is a good thing. The American marketplace is far too saturated with similar stores peddling similar merchandise. In my local mall, which is relatively upscale for a suburban area, there are at least five stand-alone stores selling functional, fitness-oriented clothing, akin to Lululemon (which is also in the mall). I don't necessarily doubt that each store has their own customer base that enjoys their individual products. But at a certain point, the similar product essentially makes them the same store, which is far too much product in a single mall (or even a single geographic area). Even in larger department stores, I've noticed that there is very little visual difference between brands. My local Nordstroms carries a variety of nice mens brands, but the problem is that there is little visual difference between the brands. I used to look for higher-end brands to spruce up my wardrobe and give me a bit of pop, but every store seems to carry similar sweaters or tops in the same colors. The Varvatos clothes look like the Hugo Boss which look like whatever other brand sold. It's just a sea of black sweaters, blue or grey button downs, and denim that all looks the same. And these brands retail for far too much, considering that they look like everything else out there. I've noticed this with a lot of the truly high-end designers as well, like those sold in Neiman's or Saks. And that's just clothing and accessories. I've noticed the same thing with bedding, home decor, even food. There just isn't enough distinction between brands to really justify so much product in the market.

Well.....SMELL Miss R72!

What can I say, r74? Sorry your life is so empty that fighting with retailers strikes you as a good use of your time.

Bed Bath used to have nice stuff, now it's mostly cheap Chinese shit you could find in Wal Mart. The quality has really gone down.

If you can’t count on a quality shopping “experience”, then the only reason to go to a physical store is price. Hence, the rise of TJ MAXX, Marshall’s, Home Goods, etc.

If I can’t find a bargain, I am going to buy it online, and spend my precious time doing other things.

R73 makes a good point about everything looking the same. Perhaps some brands/stores are of a higher quality, but when the clothes at GAP look exactly like the clothes at Target, except the latter is charging $40 yes for a button down shirt, then what’s the point in paying more for the once “mid-range” option?

The GAP, Banana Republic, JCrew-type stores have boxed themselves into a corner. Their product is not THAT nice for the price they are charging and the designs do not distinguish themselves enough from Target-type collections at 1/4 the price. People who are willing to pay for true quality won’t put up with these clothes and others looking for the same styles but are more budget conscious will simply shop elsewhere.

R78 that's actually a really good point. I'd actually go further and assert that there really isn't enough of a quality difference to justify discerning between the quality of a Target item and a similar one from Gap, BR or J. Crew, or even higher-end items like those from Rag & Bone or Hugo Boss. On top of what you mention, I think the internet age has really had a tremendous effect on retail, not only due to the sudden surplus of outlets from which to buy (which makes pricing more competitive), but also because people are able to compare and judge (albeit not entirely accurately) based on consumer reviews and pictures of products. I think what's happened is that a certain class of consumer, mainly the upper-middle class, has stopped budgeting for typically higher-priced items it used to generally spend more on due to the fact that the internet has basically shattered any charade of name brands being more quality. With bed linens, I used to buy higher-priced brands from Macy's (Ralph Lauren or Tommy Hilfiger) but have noticed that Target's house line of 100% cotton linens wear just as well and are even quite pretty as well. I've noticed the same with canned goods at my local grocery store. The house brand of canned tomatoes are the same thing as the branded label. I don't buy clothing with the same frequency I once did, but experience has taught me that forking over $300 for a designer sweater from Nordstroms is unwise when it's gonna end up wearing the same as the mid-level brand. And I think that's a big part of the problem, branding has become meaningless in America, to the point where consumers really can't trust that any specific brand is going to truly be better than a cheaper alternative. I think once the over-saturation subsides from store-closures, and the stores that survive actually start meaningfully stocking their shelves with unique, quality merchandise, brick and mortar retail could once again see a heyday. But as of right now, there's no point in buying anything from any store because branding has become meaningless.

This is why I voluntarily closed my store

We know that Walmart and Target products look the same as the higher-end brands and the quality is good enough. However...most adolescents and young 20-somethings will choose the more popular name brand. When I was in middle school, wearing a brand (e.g. Wrangler) that was sold at Ames would get you bullied. Kids would act embarrassed to admit their family shopped at Ames.

Im not r29 but iirc the Trumbull mall in CT tried stopping the buses coming from Bridgeport from stopping at the mall in the early 2000s. I can’t remember if it happened but it caused a kerfuffle.

Why is this so confusing?

I get that many DLers are employed in retail and that shopping seems to be favorite activity for many of you, but most items are more easily and efficiently bought online.

That means shopping as a leisure activity is going the way of the iPod.

Retailers can do bricks and mortar things like "concept stores" where they show off their latest and let people make what are mostly impulse purchases, but otherwise there's no reason to make a special trip unless you need the item immediately.

At this point, a suit would be the only non-grocery item I'd feel the need to buy in person, and given the ubiquity of business casual, that's an every-few-years purchase.

[quote]but most items are more easily and efficiently bought online.

The only things I buy online are the things I can't buy in a store. I HATE it.

R22 Saks has financial problems. Sales are up but so are losses. Neiman Marcus likewise saw more sales but is sitting on a mountain of debt. Barney's is about to declare bankruptcy. Nordstom's revenue is down (but earnings are up) and same-store comparables barely rose last year.

Online shopping is a huge factor, but part of the problem is that no one's buying new clothes the way they used to, let alone the kind of dress clothes one finds in Saks and Barney's: $1500 seems to be where a man's suit starts and the prices escalate from there. The market for items like SFA's mens briefs for $75 (one pair: you don't even get three!!!) or tennis socks at $95 was never large but now it's almost infinitesimal.

Granted, their problems are not the same as Family Dollar's but rising costs and fewer sales in the face of changing tastes are what's killing traditional retail.

The Bal Harbor mall is upend and is doing fabulously well.

I think consumers are smarter from doing their research and from the ubiquity of u-tube reviews, so they’re wary of luxury brands, such as La Mer, and others of that ilk. We can all analyze ingredients and know what is snake oil. That has been my experience when I had a short lived job trying to hawk La Prairie. People see right through it, and know smearing caviar on your skin isn’t going to reverse the hands of Father Time. (Or gender neutral time, sorry)

Following up on R86 and R88, consumers can tell that they're no longer getting their money's worth from higher-end shops like Nordstrom or SFA. "You get what you pay for" used to be a truism, and I'm happy to pay more for a guarantee of quality. But why trek to Nordstrom, et al when more often than not they're selling the same rayon/poly blend junk as Target these days?

The clothes at Target and Nordstrom Rack look the same as the clothes at higher end stores but they don't last beyond 3 or 4 washes. I used to buy clothes at both places all the time but I've stopped for that reason.

Unless it's for simple t-shirts, shorts or shoes that I'm familiar with how the sizes run, I HATE buying clothes online. I've been known to buy shit, try it on only to have it not fit (or get frustrated with the cheap materials) and just keep it until the next time I make a clothes donation to charity. The return process, no matter how simple it is, is annoying to me. I rarely go into a mall anymore, but I will frequent Target, TJ Maxx, Marshall's and the occasional thrift store. Those stores tend to leave you the fuck alone too (with the exception of "would you like to open a store card").

These threads universally disprove the notion that gays are designer-obsessed queens. Or at least DLers.

To my earlier point, I can't but imagine the suit market is taking huge hit. Even ten years ago, people in my job used to mostly wear suits (I work for a big consulting firm) but today the only people who regularly wear suits are a few much older partners (60+). Everyone else wears "business casual" and that might include a jacket once a week for a client meeting or conference appearance and no tie. My clients are mostly tech companies and we are always way more dressed up than they are (though given the nature of the relationship, we're kind of supposed to be.)

Even law firms and banks are easing up on the suit thing.

R91: The Target card is decent: free online shipping and always 5% off online or in-store.

As for Marshalls and TJX, just tell the cashier (who is being graded on how many card applications she promotes) you had one and never will again. TJX Corp had a scandal about ten or fifteen years ago when their servers were hacked and 1000's of people had their ID info stolen and TJX did precious little to help despite being guilty as hell: they used to ask for your phone number in the checkout line - illegal as a condition of making a sale - but most people didn't know that and rattled it right off so everyone in line could hear it too. I would tell people standing next to me not to because everyone in earshot could hear - even before they were hacked.

The cashiers who've been there awhile, anyway, know exactly what happened because it happened to some of them, too. They're the ones who'll roll their eyes when you say, "No" because they know exactly what you're talking about and why.

I am not sorry to see suits in the workplace go extinct. I've always hated wearing them, especially in the summer.

But you looked so good in them, r94!

R90 Maybe it is just the women's clothing, like that. I have several Target items and they have lasted much longer than 3 or 4 washes.

R65, it's clear that the troll at R55 and elsewhere who is double posting, frequently double posting within the same comment, sometimes repeating the same comment multiple times, is a troll who is using copypasta to make comments here.

IMO, that is enough chicanery to justify FFing every one of her posts, because for whatever poor reasons, she's trying to game the Datalounge.

R36, I've escalated my complaints to a manager for extremely serious issues and gotten absolutely NOWHERE. Managers at major chains like Macy's, Sears, JC Penny's, Kroeger (Smith's) do NOT want to hear about complaints at all. No wonder retail is going out of business through constant TERRIBLE customer service issues. Amazon solves customer service issues quickly.

The JC Penny in my local mall is a mess. One cashier downstairs and one up. Everything is buy one get one 50% off. It takes an hour to find even one thing that I'd like that fits...try to find two and you'll be there all day so it's a worthless promotion. Nearly all the stores in this mall (145 stores) sell the same clothing or shoes. There a couple of salons and body elixir shops and now a few gaming places for kids. I hate it.

R82, it was controversial here too. The mall hired off duty police as guards, but the security problems were so great that people stopped going. The mall owners said if they couldn't stop mass transit service they would close the mall. Another mall in the city enhanced transit options, including a park and ride and light rail access, and now the mall is totally ghetto and all the anchor tenants left. Nothing but cell phone accessory kiosks and cheap shoe stores.

IMO a big part of what is going on is the impoverishment of Americans. There is a new-ish large underclass that has very little and can't participate meaningfully in economic life, either as earners or spenders.

"The stores, they are a-closin" ... Yes, they are.

I am so ashamed that my cousin was one of the top 4 hedge fund vultures to take down Toys R Us and who made a fortune off of their demise. He was already very wealthy and is now even wealthier. Instead of helping them improve/restructure, he backed them into an impossible situation and took them down. In typical vulture fashion.

He (and his NYC-based firm, staffed with vultures like himself) have also refused to contribute to a severance-pay fund to assist Toys R Us displaced workers and their families. Instead, he bought another NYC penthouse when he has a mansion less than an hour away in NJ --- AND also recently purchased a $7.5 million dollar home in Jupiter, FL for whenever he wants to get away from NYC/NJ. If it weren't for him and his vulture partner TRU might have been saved by improvements and restructure. A real pos.

Won’t get much sympathy on the DL for a store designed for, catered to, and frequented by crotch droppings.

R102 You realize that YOU are a "crotch dropping," right?

Not anymore I’m not.

I done growed up.

r101 that's horrible. That's a great example of what's wrong with our society today.

[R101] That’s evil.

[quote]There was a time when it was special to get dressed up and go to a store.

Decades ago. MANY decades ago! I'm pushing 50 and the world you're describing was gone by the time I was a kid.

I get that just saying the word "store" on Datalounge means a dozen elderqueens will show up with stories about some fun trip to Woolworths they took in 1952, but it's not exactly pertinent to this particular topic.

R102 I am not looking for sympathy. You missed the point of my post. Intelligent DLers got it though. That's all that really matters.

[quote]I've gone into stores only to be told by disinterested staff to "go home and order online" because they didn't have the ADVERTISED items in the store.

I can rarely buy an appliance in town because most stores don't carry any at all, or just a few display models. When I had to replace my dishwasher just 8 years ago, I was able to shop around. The thing ended up being a lemon and I had to replace it again a couple months ago, and no one in town carried anything but some small portable dishwashers.

Companies complain about online shopping but they actually love it because it lowers their bottom line. Fewer store employees, and it cuts out the delivery to the store which then has to deliver a second time to the house.

R107 No, you are wrong. We enjoyed going into stores and shopping throughout the 90s. Even then it still felt special and was always a positive experience. Customer service was good to excellent, depending on what store you were in. It started going downhill around the early 2000's, when you were a kid in your twenties.

^ *early2000s*, not 2000's

I'm not wrong, R110. Shopping was not a glamorous event past the 1970s. Just look online at photos of shoppers in the 1980s and you'll see casual clothes, arcades, riots over Cabbage Patch Dolls, you name it.

Perhaps the high end stores in LA and NYC were still glamorous and shopping was an event, but R2 isn't talking about the exception, he's specifically stating that shopping AS A RULE was glamorous, people dressed up, stores were created to be an experience. That ended way before the early 2000s.

The "getting dressed up to go shopping and making a day of it" era was pretty much over by the late 60s, I imagine. I'm around r107's age and it was definitely gone by the time I was a kid. Even the high-end stores like Saks and Barney's were much more casual by then.

[quote]I've escalated my complaints to a manager for extremely serious issues and gotten absolutely NOWHERE.

then it wasn't serious at all.

Agree 100% R107, but that's part of the charm of DL, that it's where EGs go to reminisce about a world that no longer exists, whether it's Chelsea and Fire Island in the 80s and 90s or fancy department stores where the fact that they enjoyed dressing up and going to lunch with their mothers must have set off more than a few red flags.

Like all their "misty water colored memories" you need to take it as directional rather than factual, but still interesting to hear from them.

R112 It might not have been "glamorous" anymore but shopping could still be fun. I remember our beloved and now sadly gone local department store's yearly Moonlight Madness sale, with entertainment, free snacks, and other special events. They continued them until Dillard's bought them out in 1997. Now, stores seem to have sucked all the fun out of the shopping experience.

^ That was what I meant.

It was no longer glamorous like before the mid-70s, but it was still fun -- and a positive experience as well.

It was fun, in high school I could spend half the day at the mall. There were three bookstores, three record shops, a few electronic shops (even the big department stores had electronics and demo rooms). There were nick-nack stores where brides could register, and I always came across stuff I'd never seen before. Now it's all lower end clothes and athletic shoes. A few high priced candy stores and cell phone crap. They ruined the mall experience.

As much as many of you here hate eldergays they are the ones with the long history to draw from. They can make comparisons that those younger than them can't make because they don't have nearly as much of a history to draw from.

NEWSFLASH: The older one is, the more of a history they have to draw from. That's how it works.

Okay gramps ^

Get off his goddamn lawn R120

"There are always two malls: the mall that white people go to, and the mall that white people USED to go to."

Gathering from the looks of these shitholes, when new "merchandise" comes into places like Marshalls, the clerks simply open up the box and dump it on a shelf or on the floor, correct?

I remember when department stores had all their merchandise sorted by, style, color, and size, etc.

Now, in return for lower prices, the customer has to root around a huge pile of crap dumped on the display floor in a haphazard manner to find the style/color/size one is looking for.

[quote] Now, in return for lower prices, the customer has to root around a huge pile of crap dumped on the display floor in a haphazard manner to find the style/color/size one is looking for.

Which is why people have taken to shopping online, where a simple search engine takes care of all of that for you.

What stores are you shopping at where stuff is just dumped onto the floor? Most stores put a lot of thought into organizing products on shelves and displays, whether the organization is according to color, size, etc.

The new tackiness is Walmart's retail-ready packaging requirements. They no longer want their employees to take merchandise out of a box and place it on the shelf neatly. Instead, they're now demanding that brands ship merchandise in boxes that that can be placed directly on the shelf. This applies to bagged candy, and even boxed products.

Though I have no kids, I was sad to see Toys R Us go away. Even though I never shopped there as a kid (my mom wouldn't take me there), I fondly remember the jingle from the omni-present TV commercials. And, I think it's a great idea to have a whole store that's a wonderland for kids. I guess the six aisles of toys at Walmart will have to suffice kids for now.

I miss the department store experience. There were two great ones where I live. They were Miller and Rhoads Thalhimers, both located in Richmond, Va. They both expired many years ago. I still have fond memories of them.

I meant getting "dressed up" in the sense that people used to actually put an ounce into

Barney's in New York since the 1920s, is filing for bankruptcy, victim of a landlord who wants raise rent to $30 million a year.

It's fair to say that in the 80s, teens still got dressed in their best trendy wear for a day at the mall. The 90s brought grunge style. People wore plaid and never dressed up to go anywhere. It had nothing to do with malls or shopping.

I meant getting "dressed up" in the sense that people used to actually put an ounce of effort into their personal appearance before they went shopping, even something as mundane as grocery shopping. The majority of adults were not going shopping in the 80's and 90's in pajamas and flip flops unless you were total fucking white trash. Yet go to your local grocery store or mall this weekend and you'll find at least a handful in such attire. No makeup, hair unkempt. A lot of people put no effort into their personal appearance unless they absolutely have to, and even then it's being watered down such as what passes for a lot of work attire now.

Most stores now put the bare minimum of effort into visual design. Even how they decorate for the holidays is completely underwhelming.

[quote] The new tackiness is Walmart's retail-ready packaging requirements. They no longer want their employees to take merchandise out of a box and place it on the shelf neatly. Instead, they're now demanding that brands ship merchandise in boxes that that can be placed directly on the shelf. This applies to bagged candy, and even boxed products.

Walmart now sees its direct competitor as Aldi. Thus the ready for shelf requirements.

You are right r132, Walmart is doing the Aldi thing with the shelves.

I read that Aldi also requires their manufacturers to put bar codes on all sides of the packaging (or at least two sides) making so that their cashiers can scan quicker without having to hunt for bar code.

r132 and r133 can you post a photo of the change you're talking about? I can't visualize it. Thanks.

I've been inconsolable since the Pamida closed.

I think it undeniable that online shopping is the future, but I think those predicting the death of brick-and-mortar retail tend to forget that going out to shop, whether it be grocery, clothing, home improvement, etc, is something for people to do; and for a lot of people, it's one of just a few things they have to do. And I think there will always be a portion of our society (albeit dwindling) that will look to that kind of experience more interactive/social experience. Technology can move on as far as it wants, but at the end of the day, sitting inside behind a computer or smart phone screen navigating life entirely through technology without any legitimate social exchange is not good, and whether it's even healthy is getting a heavy debate. Personally, I spend upwards of 8 hours a day on a computer for work, so going out and into stores to make purchases is much preferred. I simply can't take that much technology in my life. At a certain point, I need to get out.

R134, scroll up a couple of posts where r125, ya know a mere 9 fucking posts ago, posted a pic.

Read the thread FFS.

[quote] I've escalated my complaints to a manager for extremely serious issues and gotten absolutely NOWHERE. Managers at major chains like Macy's, Sears, JC Penny's, Kroeger (Smith's) do NOT want to hear about complaints at all.

I am the "escalate" bitch but I will say that for me it works better in writing. So many people stomp their feet and do the Let Me Talk To The Manager thing these days that they are not inclined to help. It has to be something egregious enough to either call or write for them to take it seriously, sadly.

Some stores really don't care, and I don't escalate for any/every little thing, but if there's either a big issue or they don't give a price promised or in some way fuck over the price or quality, I will take five minutes to email. Bad situations, I put in a word doc and print out.

I had Macy's pay out $250 to me over something they fucked up badly, and had they just resolved up front, it would have been them taking back an $80 return. But their store manager was rude, even though I had evidence I was right, and defended their very dumb employee (who made the mistake). That was their choice, just as me reporting it with receipts to my state's consumer complaint department was mine.

The fact that this has happened to R138 multiple times tells you everything you need to know.

I have read the thread, I happened to miss r125, cunt.

R139 Very funny.

Hey, if you all want to lay down and do or say nothing while companies and big corporations fuck you over, be my guest.

Miss R125, Cunt

Well done.

R136, Why would shopping online turn anyone into a recluse? I love shopping online and I’m out of the house often.

I work 5 days a week, go out to dinner and/or drinks at least twice a week (more in summer). I go to the gym, the park, vacations, movies, etc.

Something is wrong if shopping is your only source of fun and human contact.

"Something is wrong if shopping is your only source of fun and human contact."

I don't think anybody ever said that. But shopping for EVERYTHING online, which is what some people do, seems to indicate an enslavement to a computer. It doesn't really seem healthy.

I do most of my shopping online but I also like to go and browse in stores.

Then again, we are in the age of the extremely socially awkward millennial, who has no social skills whatsoever and could not speak to a stranger on the street - or in the store - to save their lives.

Having to interact with someone ringing a register is probably beyond them.

Da fuck R144?

How much shit does your aging gay ass buy that you fear becoming "enslaved to the computer"?

Even if you bought new clothes once a month, how much time do you think that takes? A half hour? Maybe ten minutes if you have an idea of what you want.

Amazon keeps your old orders on file, so when you need to reorder paper towels or batteries you can search on there and be done. Hell, you can even tell Alexa to buy shit for you if it's something you buy regularly.

And as R143 noted, not having to actually go to the store to buy shit frees you up to spend time with friends and family and engage in activities you actually enjoy.

Eldergays are afraid of what they don’t understand r147.

Like technology.

And Prep.

146 = shutin who hasn't spoken to anyone under the age of 35 since 1982

Why would you shop in a store and have to put up with all those annoying people when you can order online for less and have it delivered right to your front door for free?

"How much shit does your aging gay ass buy that you fear becoming "enslaved to the computer"?"

I get the feeling that you're one of those who can't be bothered to move their ass outdoors to buy anything. Sound pretty unhealthy to me.

"Why would you shop in a store and have to put up with all those annoying people when you can order online for less and have it delivered right to your front door for free?"

What "annoying people?" Whenever I shop at stores, I seldom, if ever, encounter "annoying people." You sound like a shut-in who is afraid to venture outdoors.

Translation of R151 and R152 -- HISSSS!!!! HISSSS!!

And not very well-hissed either, I might add. "can't be bothered to move their ass outdoors to buy anything"

No shit Sherlock.

I'd rather buy things on my phone and use my time outdoors to run, ride my bike, walk my dog or hang with friends.

Why would I want to use it to go shopping?

In my building packages are delivered and and kept in a room; the tenant is notified with a slip in their mail box, and the person goes to to the rental office and a staff member retrieves the package for them. The building now houses mostly college students. They were ordering everything, literally everything, online; sofas, mattresses, TIRES. Their stuff would clutter up the lobby. The office staff couldn't get any work done because every five minutes some little dipshit would be demanding their package or inquiring about a package that hadn't been delivered yet (as if the office staff had anything to do with that). It got so bad that for a time package delivery to the building was suspended; tenants had to pick up their package at the post office or be there when the UPS carrier arrived; if they weren't there the package would be left at their door (this seemingly caused a lot of missing packages). Of course the little darlings were very upset about all this. The building went back to accepting packages for tenants but not big items like furniture and what not; there's just no room for it, and if anything like that gets delivered, the mail carrier is told to take it back. All this because some people are too lazy to go to a fucking store to buy anything.

R154 Yep.

There's a woman in our building who gets 20-30 boxes A DAY.

Paper towels, groceries, tampons, everything. And she's a twentysomething.

"There are always two malls: the mall that white people go to, and the mall that white people USED to go to."

It's a modern day trail of tears.

[QUOTE]not having to actually go to the store to buy shit frees you up to spend time with friends and family and engage in activities you actually enjoy.

For many years I was so broke I couldn't afford to buy anything so, now that I can, going out shopping is one of the things I enjoy the most, specially in cities that have managed to, more or less, escape the dreadful globalization like Madrid or Mexico City. I love being able to spend a Saturday afternoon roaming these cities charming downtown streets, discovering tiny, independent stores that carry one of a kind items, interacting with the clerks, absorbing the stores unique ambience, checking the quality and , in the case of apparel, trying them on and seeing how it actually fits and looks on you, taking a break by sitting in a cute café and savoring a delicious delicatessen while people watching and then continue to walk around discovering.

I find online shopping to be so fucking depressing. Maybe it's godsend for antisocial shut-ins who would rather spend their "precious" time posting closeups of their assholes on the internet but I loathe it.

R152 And you sound like your idea of socializing is wandering the isles of Walmart on a Saturday night in your sweat pants while your fat rolls spill out of your two-sized, too small t-shirt hoping you'll save 50 cents on a bottle of wine to drink your sorrows away.

Girls, girls... you're BOTH pathetic!

Isn't that why we're here?

I teach a class to senior citizens that includes a section on how to get around and get things done once you've decided you can no longer drive. I always point out that, unlike 10 years ago, you can get pretty much anything delivered directly to your these days, so there's really not that much need to be driving to stores. But most of them balk -- some for the obvious technology issues (although that will change as the more computer-savvy part of populace begins to get older) but other just because they like going shopping.

Online shopping frees up time. It allows you to do other things. This morning I took care of my amazon order on the subway while on the way to work. I didn’t have to run around after a long day at the office because every is taken care of. Instead I grabbed some margaritas with my friends, something I couldn’t have done if I had to go buy toilet paper and paper towels after work.

R157, I get wanting to enjoy shopping small businesses in nice downtown areas, but that’s not what we’re talking about here. You don’t buy toothpaste and mouthwash and soak in the charm of a Target. There’s also no need to buy a book at Barnes and Noble or cat litter from Petco. These stores are soulless places with terrible customer service. Of course the service at a small business is going to be good (most of the time). The owners have poured everything they own into these stores. That’s not true of Macy’s, Target and Best Buy.

I bought 27 items during Prime Day. Is there a 12-step program for me?

[QUOTE]I bought 27 items during Prime Day. Is there a 12-step program for me?

There's just one step: Realizing that you're making this creepy asshole the richest man in the world.

R158 we really don't want to hear about your ex, toots.

R143 apologies, it wasn't my intention to suggest anyone who online shops is in danger of becoming a crazy shut it creepily peering through blinds. Admittedly, I didn't really write what I actually meant. Further, while I like shopping in the sense that's it's fun to go out and buy fun clothes, shoes, get my haircut, whatever, that's not my normal shopping routine any longer; most shopping is mundane and boring. And for me as well, it's not such a big deal because I do still manage to get out some. And I know plenty of people who online shop (most people I know do in some capacity) and most of them have completely normal lives. What I was suggesting is that there's a subset of people who can't or won't get out and do as much. In my life I could list at least ten people I know who no longer leave their homes with any kind of frequency (save for some who have a job where they have to leave home). My mother is a good example. She's in her early sixties, she's retired now, she has great friends but they've moved, or they're now older or just can't do as much as they used to for whatever reason. She's fit but she isn't going to get into a gym and go consistently. And while my mom is still very social in certain contexts, she's definitely become more reclusive as the years progressed. For someone like her, physically going to the store, talking with the sales staff, looking and maybe purchasing the goods was a legitimate social activity that she could do. Further, it was a decent bit of exercise for an older woman, walking around from store to store for a couple hours, or walking around a Target. My mom doesn't actually do that anymore because she buys so much online. I was over there the other day and noticed she had on a nice outfit I hadn't seen. She bought it off Nordstrom's website. That's all fine and great, but for someone like her, she has all the time in the world to go to the danged store 10 minutes away and actually make something of an activity out of it. I see that as something of a missed opportunity. And I know plenty of people like her, who could use the social interaction brick and mortar retail provide, but they simply don't. And a few of the people I know aren't even older. Some are seriously just so lazy they don't want to leave the house to get toothpaste. An old friend (with whom I'm no longer acquainted) was like that and she was 32. For you, I have no doubt online shopping is fine because it isn't your only outlet to society; but for some people, it's seriously all they've got.

[quote]It was fun, in high school I could spend half the day at the mall. There were three bookstores, three record shops, a few electronic shops (even the big department stores had electronics and demo rooms).

That's the kind of shit I liked to do when I went out - and way after high school.

I went into the centre of London recently, where they always had the best record stores and bookstores in the world and now they're gone I have much less to do for pleasure. It wasn't just about BUYING. They were an experience.

"Gurl, go to the museums!" I hear the gaylings say. I hate museums. Airless places. Oh and ..."Volunteer!"

And, OMG - going to libraries these days. I asked this fat idiot "Are you the librarian?" ...no, he didn't want to call himself that. Can't remember what he said he was and he didn't know shit.

And I went to another library and the "librarian" who I has probably never read a book in her whole fucking life, seemed put out when I asked her to SHOW ME where a book was.

The only place I enjoy going shopping is Menards because I've turned Butch in my older age. The rest? Fuck it. I never liked malls, I spent 5 years working in a grocery store (burnt out), and I only buy clothes on Black Friday, because there are big sales and nobody is beating down the doors for cardigans. I don't live anywhere near a mall, and would far rather pay more at a local shop to avoid them.

Malls destroyed Main Street. Now the internet is destroying malls while Main Streets makes a comeback as an experience destination. I'm crying as I type.

I hardly shop in stores anymore except for groceries, and that's just because I like to pick them out myself and, anyway, I like supermarket shopping.

But I do agree that some of the old-fashioned shopping we've lost was fun. I especially miss bookstores. When you buy a book on Amazon, they offer you similar books to check out, but that's nothing like a big bookstore where you could browse for an hour or more and probably find titles you never would have thought to look at (and Amazon's algorithm wouldn't offer you). Wandering around in a big record store was fun, for the same reason.

The selection of books and music available on line is incomparably greater than what it was in even the biggest stores, but that doesn't mean it wasn't interesting to look in person. Some people feel the same way about clothes. I guess you could say it's like hunting vs. gathering. If you know exactly what you want, it's easier to hunt it down on line. If you just want to browse and look at lots of different things, it's more fun to gather them, so to speak, in person.

I worked in market research and data collection for many years in grocery, drug and mass merchandise stores and now I despise spending any time in them at all. I have to force myself to shop. Now I shop online as much as I can to save myself the trauma.

[quote] The only place I enjoy going shopping is Menards because I've turned Butch in my older age.

Menards family is terribly antigay and conservative.......

R169, that was my biggest complaint in the very beginning of Amazon. I, too, love books but found if you knew the title you wanted, Amazon was great. If you were just looking for a “good read” and wanted to browse, their site was terrible.

Autobiography, for example, would turn up thousands upon thousands of hits with very limited ways to narrow the search down.

That’s all changed now, of course, but I remember the enjoyment of spending an hour or two in a bookstore.

R172 - If only you knew how much time and effort tech companies spend trying to recreate what they call "serendipity"--that feeling of randomly stumbling onto something and falling in love with it.

r166 Next time you go shopping, please visit the Paragraph Store.

The only real enjoyment I get shopping now is at resale, antique, and second hand book shops. Since all the clothing is the same at malls, and TJ Maxx and Home Goods, Marshall's, ect all carry the same home crap (extruded plastic and resin) , I find there's still a thrill for the eyes combing resale places. I seldom buy anything but there is those rare occasions when I find a gem.

R167 don’t slam librarians pls. It’s a shitshow for public librarians these days US or UK. I do miss entertaining retail jaunts myself, so much has veered to crap in the past 20 years.

I enjoy going to the stores. I like going to a CVS, looking at the cosmetics section, and seeing rows and blocks of color and shapes. I like to squeeze the Charmin before I buy it. I like to see the designs on the temporary cardboard displays that are set up in the aisles. Some of them are funny/clever. I like how CVS has a 3-foot tall plastic/rubber M&M character by the door holding up a tray with packs of M&Ms. At my local safeway, there was a giant grill made of cardboard, and you could pick up a bottle of mustard or ketchup off the display. I know it's all designed to take money out of my pockets, but I like the fact they work so hard to get my attention and impress me.

Sorry, no enjoyment buying necessary commodities from chain box stores. Toothpaste, dish soap, toilet paper, and all the cleaning and wiping products evoke no trill whatsoever.

The skill of a true artist is to bring joy, fun, and excitement to boring, mundane things. I've seen funny-as-hell toothpaste displays that entertained me.

Charmin once sponsored an event at a store in NY, where they took over the public restroom, cleaned up the restroom after each use, allowed shoppers to sample different varieties of TP before choosing one to take into the restroom with them. Then upon leaving the bathroom, the shoppers were given a coupon for Charmin.

I like seeing the hot daddies buying their goods.

[quote]there is those rare occasions when I find a gem.

Oh, dear!

No one told me Dress Barn was closing!!!

*ugly cry*

"When you buy a book on Amazon, they offer you similar books to check out, but that's nothing like a big bookstore where you could browse for an hour or more and probably find titles you never would have thought to look at (and Amazon's algorithm wouldn't offer you). Wandering around in a big record store was fun, for the same reason."

I felt that same way about the local video store. I would go in and browse and find movies I never knew existed. It was fun and relaxing.

Was Dress Barn two words, or was it Dressbarn. How did it ever work with either name, and that horrible font and that red?

End of thread

damn. wrong thread. sorry.