Leaving Neverland, Part 6

Michael Jackson is a gross dead pedophile. The end.

Link to part 5:

It should be R1 but in the sad world we live 'fans' are so deluded they will twist facts gymnastically to keep the flame alive.

Wow, that video of Jacko and who I assume was Jimmy in the jewelry store. How are his stans gonna spin this one? There is literally video proof that Jimmy was telling the truth in the interview. He was there with Jackson!

Give them time R4 they'll get their rebuttal and explanation up in a few minutes.

Ever since the raid and the phony marriage to Lisa Marie Jacko fans have been in denial.

How the FUCK did his basthit crazy stans manage to discredit this one? WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK!?! These stans are completely mental.

[Quote]It could have been his nephew or anyone. I see the media insist on lynching Michael Jackson, a dead man. As such, I give PERMISSION to the Jackson family, fans, media and anyone TO SHARE/UPLOAD/COPY this video anywhere as it EXPOSES the Conspiracy to Destroy Michael Jackson's LEGACY.

The 12-year-old boy wasn't Jimmy because Jimmy must have been 10 or 11, so WROOONG. It was probably Liza Minnelli, that short hair and fair complexion could have fooled anyone.

R7 HOW does that video discredit ANYTHING? I don't even get that stan's logic. Simi Valley is Jimmy's home town. The boy next to Michael is tall and lanky, just like Jimmy was. How likely is it that it was anyone else but Jimmy? COME ON!

R8 Oh ffs, the news guy got his age wrong so that means we can discredit the whole clip? Because saying the boy is 12 when he was 11 is such a huge mistake, right? LOOOOOOOL!

That didn't take as long as I thought it would.

This was posted in the other thread. Good on Sam Smith for supporting the documentary and the victims. He has balls.

R11 That comment was from the one who posted the video. That idiot really thinks the guy saying his age was 12 instead of 11 will discredit the whole clip, lmao. Um, yeah, ok then.

Sam Smith is awesome. It does take courage. Jackson fans are next level crazy.

I just wish Michael would have been condemned while alive. I remember how celebrities defended him after the Bashir interview. In Hollywood it's do as I say, not as I do. Would they ever make a move like Spotlight about Hollywood players? No way. That documentary about the child sex ring was swept under the rug, I never heard about it until someone posted it here. I believe someone tried to release another documentary, but couldn't find a distributor, unsurprisingly.

I really think that the reason so many celebrities haven’t responded is due to the overwhelming horror of it all. It was blatant sexual abuse of little boys in plain sight.

Jackson wasn’t forgiven - he was feted. He was a monster and he was celebrated. So many people knew and looked the other way.

R16. That’s right.

The way the media treated the accusations at the time probably has something to do with it. It was treated as a joke. I didn’t see SNL making jokes about the penn state Sandusky molestations. People were conditioned not to take the matter seriously at the time by the press.

R7 The incident was reported substantially by the local press. They even interviewed the jeweler. This article mentions Jackson buying various items but no ring.

Considering that there are probably several living witnesses, why can't they just interview those who worked at the jewelry store to see if they can substantiate Jimmy's story of trying on different rings?

I'm sure that wasn't the only jewelry store they hit up.

R20 It wasn't. The reporter said they went to another one too.

Great point R17. Jackson's wealth and perceived "weirdness" hid how truly evil he was. He was seen as a . A sexless mime of sorts.

Jimmy is obviously helping MJ to pick out jewelry for Sheryl Crow. Michael wouldn't dream of buying Jimmy anything from Zales. Only Tiffany or Cartier for him.

I mean I have a feeling that Michael must have taken him to jewelry stores multiple times over the course of the couple years he spent with the kid.

R18, that article says "The encounter happened about 5 p.m. in the Sycamore Plaza mall. Wearing his get-up, Jackson was looking at rings."

Jackson with his hand on the thigh of 12-year-old Jonathan Spence. Would love to hear how his fans spin this one. "He never had a childhood of his own!" doesn't really work in this context.

I was listening to a playlist earlier and "I'll Be There" by the Jackson 5 came on. I didn't skip it, although I did feel weird listening to it. It was strange and depressing to think that the 11-year-old boy who sang that song grew up to be so vile.

R7 There is no confirmation or whatsoever in that video or in any article that states the boy with Michael in the video is James. We don’t know who that boy is.

They didn’t buy anything from that jewelry store. They bought some toys and a pair of heart-shaped glasses from the next one though.

Michael had plans to marry an African-American woman in 1989.

Jermaine Jackson mentioned that in his book, Liza Minnelli confirmed that there was a woman (she met her) whom Michael dated back in 1989 and had plans to marry her. Flo Anthony also confirms that she thought that Michael and that woman was engaged. She knew his plans for her too.

R28-🤣😂🤣😂

Lmao

R28 is just another one of Jacko's crazy stans. Who else would it be you idiot? They bought rings and it was in Simi Valley, which is Jimmy's home town. Michael often stayed there with Jimmy's family.

R28 - Bahahahahhahahhahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahhahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SOOO special needs.

Could the Jackson fans explain why Michael Jackson moved into the Safechuck house for a month? Did he just get tired of living with his parents?

Next up in the Shark Tank....

Obsessed fan posting dozens of pro-MJ links VS. a CSA "survivor" projecting his own abuse onto James/Wade

....Will either get therapy? Will we see a Part 7?.........Stay Tuned.

Meet the fantards who are standing up for Michael Jackson

"What was the biggest piece of evidence that convinced you that no, he didn't do it?

Juror from 2005 trial: "It was more the lack of evidence -- there was just zero concrete evidence."

Reddit R36 ? That jury were idiots, one old bag said she made her decision based on the mother snapping her fingers while giving evidence. The law failed us, hampered by a hypnotized public, Jackson was a pedophile, there is absolutely no doubt, even without Wade and Safechuck coming forward he screams child molester, it's over, Jackson was a pedophile.

I know this has been posted several times, but it bears reposting. Damn, Stallone hit it right on the head. I'm sure Michael's predilections towards little boys was an open secret in Hollywood.

just seeing the reactions to this documentary prove how much progress needs to be made. Somebody'll probably comment on this like "BUT UHH WHAT ABOUT THE EVIDENCE"

who in their right minds would make these kinds of things up, who would put themselves out there to the public and reveal a story this detailed and vulnerable. For money and attention? Yeah I'm sure they absolutely love the aggressive amount of hate and threats that have come their way since the release of this. What could've been an inspiring documentary that helps other victims of sexual abuse feel less alone and stronger about speaking out also feels like an example of why speaking out is so impossible because of the absurd amount of stupid people out there who can't seem to accept these things. That was such a poorly worded sentence but we're gonna move on.

More like they'd never convict Michael Jackson. OJ had a the victim's blood on the bottom of his fucking shoe and they wouldn't convict.

They shouldn’t let people sit on juries if they don’t understand what “evidence” means. Testimony IS evidence.

His fans know he did it. They just don't want his legacy to be tarnished but they know he did it. I think they don't believe it was as severe as it appears. They believe maybe he had a relationship with one of the boys but he wasn't a serial molester. They believe he was so traumatized by having a lack of a childhood he had an "affair" with an underage boy. He then realized it was wrong and pursued women after that but was taken advantage of by other boys. I believe this is what they truly believe, or most of them.

As far as banning his music- I think that is unnecessary. The demand for his music is already starting to decline substantially and this is without the vast majority of the population having seen the doc yet. Eventually, he will be swept aside and his music will no longer be in any kind of demand.

[quote] just seeing the reactions to this documentary prove how much progress needs to be made. Somebody'll probably comment on this like "BUT UHH WHAT ABOUT THE EVIDENCE"

Do you see anyone coming to the defense of Weinstein, Cosby, or R. Kelly? No, because there is a ton of evidence. At the very least you have to admit that the documentary was one sided and that the 2005 trial had numerous witnesses with holes in their testimony. Meanwhile, you had those who were said to be victims deny that Michael ever touched them inappropriately. The jurors based their decision on the available evidence at the time. Not only did Robson, Barnes, and Culkin deny any wrongdoing, but Chandler refused to testify.

[quote] who in their right minds would make these kinds of things up, who would put themselves out there to the public and reveal a story this detailed and vulnerable. For money and attention? Yeah I'm sure they absolutely love the aggressive amount of hate and threats that have come their way since the release of this.

I could totally believe it. We're not talking about mere pennies here. A multi million dollar judgment could set them up for life.

I'm reading comments in foreign press and social media and the argument the stans keep using is that Jimmy and Wade lied about spending weeks with MJ unsupervised. As in "What parent would leave a child with a stranger for a month? That never happened!" And if they were never left unattended, then they could not have been molested.

So basically, Wade and his mom lied about him being alone with MJ for a week while the family went to SF. And Brett didn't go on tour with MJ. Or he did, but his mom was there with him at all times? I swear, their mental gymnastics makes my head hurt.

R43 You don't have to do this to yourself, Jackson was a pedophile it's ugly and it's an indelible stain on his reputation but it isn't the end of the world.

R43, pease. There is a shit load of evidence outside the documentary if you know where to look, which means actual media sites and not MJ Stan blogs.

To me Culkin's becoming a complete drug addict , after the trial/Jackson's death speaks to a guilty conscience over the trial & shame about the abuse. Kieran and Rory have both gone on to have amazing careers and Culkin is just a freakish oddity. He does seem like he's off hard drugs....although, he did get those spoon tattoos with Paris Jackson a year or so ago.

His stans know he did something with an underage boy. They know it.

His stans are exactly like deplorables and a lot like stans of other entertainers esp his sister.

R43, R Kelly was acquitted DESPITE the evidence. And he has plenty of defenders. He sold out several shows right after his documentary aired.

What's the ton of evidence against Weinstein? The victims' own accounts of what happened is the bulk of it.

Please people, stop talking about "evidence" when you clearly don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

R36, do you know what one huge piece of evidence was left out of the 2005 trial?

A comparison of Jordie Chandler's description of Jackson's penis with the photos taken of Jackson during the strip search.

The prosecutor wanted that evidence in, Jackson's defense objected. The judge ruled it out (I think it was because Jordie wasn't available to testify).

Take a guess why the prosecutor wanted that in but Jackson's lawyers didn't.

Exactly R50. George Zimmerman was acquitted despite tons of evidence, as was Casey Anthony and OJ. Jackson had the best lawyers money could buy.

Guilty as sin

What the stans don't get is this is a massive event, it's much bigger than Jackson's musical legacy, this was a colossal con trick , maybe the biggest ever. He conned the world, even non fans, into trusting him. He got that trust so he could indulge his pedophilia, we trusted him so much we accepted public, romantic relationships with children. None of the stories, including those in the doc, are new, we heard all the names and dates years ago, he did such a job on us we are only now, 10 years after his death, saying' Hey, wait a minute....!' It's tempting to describe him as an evil genius, the only other examples of spellbinding the public on such a scale are political dictators. It's fascinating and horrific to think he took us in to such an extent, as good a performer as he was his magnum opus was his life as the world's most outrageous pedophile and to make us smile as he rubbed it in our faces. I think it's over now, he needed the acquiescence of the entire public and only the most loyal fans, his base, are left to feebly defend him in the face of the tsunami of evidence . The majority of us have finally emerged from the stupor we allowed Jackson to put us in, but you have to admit the ( evil ) genius and nerve it took to put us in it and keep us there so long.

100% on point R53. The Jackson name is garbage...as are the Jacksons

I believe Pellicano must have smoking gun evidence. I hope he sings like a canary when he's released from prison.

Jackson's denial at the same time as dating these kids in plain site reminds me of Roy Cohn. In that news program interview not long before his death, he faced the camera and emphatically said he wasn't homosexual. Then, when the same program showed some video footage of him relaxing poolside, lying beside a topless man (beautiful face and body) less than half his age. Even though he wasn't gay, he wanted to show off the man he was banging.

Remember when the extended version of the "Black or White" video debuted on network TV during prime time? Jackson was criticized for glamorizing vandalism and masturbation. He jumped on top of a car and started smashing out all of its windows. Then, as he danced on top of the car, he grabbed his crotch, and then gyrated several times against his hand, as if he were humping it. In those days, he was regularly criticized for grabbing his crotch; it was almost like a trademark move for him in those days. Maybe he was trying to normalize that, too. But that video took it to a new level that was just too much.

[quote] It's tempting to describe him as an evil genius, the only other examples of spellbinding the public on such a scale are political dictators.

Yet he admitted on television that he likes to share his bed with his children even after being arrested. He often complained about being hounded in public and wore disguises yet continued to alter his appearance to look less human. For such a con man, on the surface he didn't seem particularly good at it. He must have had godlike intelligence.

[quote] Yet he admitted on television that he likes to share his bed with children even after being arrested

....

He didn't fool everyone. Plenty thought he was creep asf after Thriller. His looks just deteriorated into ghoulishness. And quickly. He never grew as an artist. He relied on the same dance routines and similar sounding songs. He is very overrated even though his charisma was off the charts.

Am I missing something here with regard to Jordan being able to describe Jackson’s penis and how that definitively proves guilt? Sometimes fathers take sons into the locker rooms of gyms or public pools or such and male penises are obviously on display. There’s too much reasonable doubt as there could be myriad reasons why he would see Michael naked, especially if they were playing with animals at Neverland and needed to wash afterward.

R58 That proves what a master manipulator he was, rather than deny he bragged as he had done all along and it worked, he managed to have child lovers until his death. The plastic surgery I think he was impelled to do as result of his self hatred.

You need help R62. WTF...

It's interesting to read how frantic the police were to get pictures of Michael's genitals. He was evading them and they were seriously worried that he would have plastic surgery on his privates to throw them off. I completely understand why Chandler chose to settle but if he had gone to trial, Jackson would have been convicted.

I think R62 is trying to be funny because no one could be that stupid and still be able to type.

*Fantastic* interview with Dan Reed

R62 There is no situation where a grown man would wash naked with a unrelated child . There is no myriad of reasons for a unrelated grown man's penis being familiar to a child other than the obvious inappropriate sexual one. The excuse gymnastics you fans twist yourself into is pathetic, and you have to come up with them for one obvious pedophile situation after another, after another.. " His penis could have fallen into the unsupervised child's open mouth ( being in the presence of MJ causes slack-jawed awe ) while they were innocently showering behind locked and alarmed corridors after a rubba rubba slumber party and a little Jesus Juice ( the spilled juice resulting in the innocent shower ), where's the suspicion in that!?!?"

R67 Thanks for sharing.

[quote]He does seem like he's off hard drugs....although, he did get those spoon tattoos with Paris Jackson a year or so ago.

I've never gotten the impression that their tattoos are a glorification of cocaine use, circa Studio 54. I know that we joke about Spoon Theory as the domain of the frau in need of endless "couch days" and pints of Ben & Jerry's, but it is pretty big with abuse survivors and people with PTSD — or anyone for whom it takes every bit of mental and emotional energy to put on a facade of normalcy and make it through the day.

Yeah, I heard that he was engaged to a young black woman back in 1989, but she died of cholera in that year's epidemic and MJ trothed never to marry. Or was it consumption?

Do we think that Feldman wasn't attractive enough for MJ? I thought that was a joke, but I've seen the comment pop up more than once. I thought he had gotten too old.

R53, you're right. The whole thing is mind-boggling when you look back. He clearly was not attracted to women; both of his marriages were blatant publicity stunts (he didn't even know how to kiss an adult, FFS! Look at him with Lisa Marie!) But he didn't seem interested in adult men, either - for all the press attention focused on him, there never seemed to be any man he spent an excessive amount of time with. He was a bona fide megastar who could have had his pick of lovers, yet he chose to form his most intense "friendships" with young boys. His entire home was designed to appeal to young boys. The only people he invited into his bed were young boys. He freely admitted this ON GLOBAL TELEVISION. And when two of those boys accused him of sexual abuse, people didn't believe them.

The only explanation I can think of is that the general public were just less educated in those days about grooming. I think most people knew the word, but I don't think they understood much about how it actually works. I was a teen when I watched the Martin Bashir documentary, and I remember my mum saying "that lad [Gavin] clearly adores him, he isn't being abused in any way". She could see that Jackson obviously had mental health problems and felt sorry for his children, but she didn't think he could possibly be a paedophile. Then, when Jackson was arrested later that year and it emerged that Gavin was the accuser, she and my dad both said that the poor boy must have been manipulated by his money-hungry parents. My mum was only a very casual fan of Jackson and my dad actively dislikes most of his music, yet both of them just assumed he must be innocent because Gavin had seemed so fond of him in the documentary.

Feldman and Carter were too old. Jackson liked them between 6-12. Even at 12 they were aging out.

Even more than Culkin, I think his youngest son has a tale to tell. There’s a reason the Jackson’s don’t allow him social media accounts and monitor his every move.

Of course he didn't know how to kiss women. But he could wedge his tongue 3 inches up a little boy's butthole.

Dig his ass up and test his DNA cause a lot of victims cumin forward and they need his fukin blood to prove he did it.

we know he did screw hundreds of 7 to 10 yr olds ...

R43 Agree. Evidence is not as bulletproof or straightforward as they are trying to make it seem.

I think the media gave the public a false sense of security regarding Michael. They normalized and covered for his behavior. The public also bought the 'I've never had a childhood' sob story. When Bashir came along and finally started to expose the truly odd behavior, some started to at least question. Even then, he got hell. Latoya was interviewed by Katie Couric and exposed all this, yet Katie was a total bitch to her. Nowadays with the internet, it would never have fly, but back then it did.

Thought it was interesting Prince wouldn't do BAD with him. He didn't like 'your butt is mine' line. I wonder if he knew then what we all know now. They didn't seem friendly at all.

Prince was an ugly dwarf. They both were freaks.

The Jeffrey Epstein case reminds me a lot of the Jackson case. These rich freaks should be exterminated. I’m sorry Jackson never met a parent with a working conscience and a gun.

You’re welcome R69. I really respect Dan Reed. He did so much research and is so level headed.

These guys remind me of a story I read a while back, where a rich guy was accused of giving alcohol to a minor. It looked bad, until she shot herself in the foot by saying it was a 40 or 50 year old bottle of some expensive wine. These guys' lawsuits, job requests, and past statements are like the vintage wine.

R82, I’m not sure what you are getting at. The person being given alcohol either was a minor or she wasn’t. There isn’t a “she’s a whore with expensive tastes!” defense. And were James and Wade demanding jobs and money when they were children? And would that have excused their rapes?

[quote] The public also bought the 'I've never had a childhood' sob story.

Yes, he milked that for all it was worth. It didn't really make sense, when you stopped to think about it. If he simply loved children in an innocent way, why did he only ever take a special interest (ugh) in boys, not girls? And why on Earth did he need to share a bed with them in order to relive his own childhood? Isn't that an oddly specific - not to mention intimate - thing to do? There was absolutely nothing they could do in bed that they couldn't do elsewhere. It was all about breaking down their boundaries. Why else would he keep sleeping with boys after paying off the Chandlers? Surely that would have woken him up to the fact that he was making himself vulnerable to accusations? The only explanation is that he couldn't help himself.

Rosie believed both Wade and James. She posted on her Instagram.

Good on Rosie. It's pathetic that others usually opinionated about everything are zipping their traps shut.

In retrospect, REALLY look at his behavior. He was holding hands with the boys, sharing a bed, taking portraits together, matching appearance, cuddling, flying them around the world with him, shopping together, buying them expensive gifts etc... this is stuff you do with a lover/partner! No even, the matching dress and eyeliner was creepy as fuck. More or less he was having a relationship out in the open. It's really crazy and it went on for years with multiple boys. Yet, the public still didn't see past his Peter Pan act. I would never speak to those mothers ever again if I was those boys.

Heard back from my local radio station. NO more pedo music!

R83 I wasn't clearly expressing my observation. My beliefs are that being denied a job in someone's business, praising them for decades, asking to have a wedding at their home, and being in the middle of appealing a lawsuit against them adds motivation to a narrative, especially when your reason for speaking our is merely "I don't want to lie anymore."

The videos the Jackson’s fans make debunking the documentary are actually pretty convincing.

R89, Robson was hired to work on the Cirque du Soleil show about Jackson; he has explained that he left the show due to his emotional troubles. Neither Robson or Safechuck ever asked to have a wedding at Neverland; the man who did was yet another one of Jackson's former "special friends." (He seems to have been the boy who replaced Emmanuel Lewis in Jackson's affections). The lawsuit is irrelevant; it can't be affected by the film, it's solely a matter of the interpretation of California's statute of limitations. In any case, if both men were molested, they are entitled to seek compensation from Jackson's estate.

R90 Yes, you can't avoid them on Facebook. I think there is a fair amount of reasonable doubt in this case, although I would agree that some people have seemingly little reservation denigrating sexual abuse victims.

R92 Well what kind of evidence would you expect to see in a sexual abuse case?

How woke of them, R92.

R89 I read the email, unless it was faked, where he said being a new father was the reason he left the production. I presume it's possible this translated to his emotional issues processing the abuse, but that was not my first explanation. Also, I am pretty sure I read that it was either Safechuck or Robson who requested to wed at Neverland. Was this fake news?

R90, of course they are because they shamelessly lie in them. See R589-R592 in the prior thread:

Sick of the insane MJ apologists infesting every thread.

Interesting comment from Culkin in regards to the pedophile freak's trial. It seems he. didn't want to testify -

KING: If they asked you to be a character witness, would you appear?

CULKIN: I guess so, but probably not. Like I said, it's crazy, and I don't really want to be a part of it.

I swear to God tape could appear of Jackson abusing kids could appear and his demented fans wouldn't believe it

R98 and Kieran refused to speak about Michael at all, before and after the 2005 trial.

I'm glad Sia didn't take down her tweet. Those fans are crazy.

The guy who wed in Neverland was Spence. The misinformation spewed by the loonies is getting out of hand.

R102 I don't think so. I just looked it up and it says Robson was the one who allegedly tried to have his wedding at Neverland. Does anyone know if he addressed this? If true, this is a part of the reasonable suspicion I was talking about.

I wonder if Macaulay got a similar sob story call and then a pushy slightly threatening one from MJ to testify similar to Wade and James. He groomed all 3 and likely used the same tactics on Culkin.

I have never heard that Wade tried to have his wedding at Neverland. Apparently Jonathan Spence married there, but Michael didn't attend.

I've seen soooo many documentaries over the years and this is by FAR the most damning one I've ever seen. For anyone who could believe that these 2 men are fabricating things, when they present a literal MOUNTAIN of evidence PROVING what they are saying (photos, videos, phone call recordings, love letter faxes that Jackson sent, etc), clearly don't WANT to see the truth about this pedophile!!

I agree with whoever said it above that it was sickening how one of the stupid old jurors they interviewed voted "not guilty" because someone snapped their fingers in her face and she didn't like it... ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! Sometimes I think this country is doomed.

I also agree with whoever said that Michael was very CLEVER (if not downright DIABOLICAL) in the way that he made himself SO WEIRD in order to COVER UP what was actually going on!!!! I also liked how the documentary revealed what a SHAM his ridiculous bearding ("marriage") to Lisa Marie was!! Everyone KNEW it was at the time, but once again, everyone went along with it (sadly there is so much bearding going on now like this too-- usually to cover up being gay, not a being pedophile, but none the less, it's going on constantly!).

The sexual details were revolting, and I am no prude. How one of the boys (now men) that they interviewed kept pointing out ALL the places he and Michael "had sex" when he was like 7 years old... I was HORRIFIED!!!! I mean MY GOD! And don't even get me started on the stupid parents who fell right into Michael's trap!! How could ANY parent let their little child sleep in the same room as a grown man for ANY reason? What did these stupid mothers think Michael really WANTED with their little boys if not sex?! Some people are just too stupid to live, and sadly, these boys paid the price.

I used to question if some of these boys (or their families) were making up false claims for money, but not anymore. It's a good thing MJ is dead now, or otherwise he'd be going to jail for good this time.

Also, I wonder if Macaulay Culkin is EVER going to come clean about Michael molesting him too! It was so obvious from the documentary that he did!!

All this 'Michael missed out on his childhood' crap is beyond a joke. Sure he was in the band but with plenty of money and plenty of siblings he probably had a great time on the road. The worst kind of bad childhood is a lonely one and he hardly had that.

He created Neverland as a huge and elaborate lure for all the children he hoped to abuse, not because he wanted to be a child himself as his apologists say. What could be more enticing to kids than a theme park?

This podcast is worth a watch all the way through, it starts with R. Kelly then covers LN.

They highlight a clip from the Bashir doc where GA describes being reluctant to sleep in bed with MJ. Later, MJ says the kids always want to sleep with HIM. The kid had just said the opposite. He would trot out, you would if you loved me, so and so will do it if you will not, etc, like any teen pressuring someone to give it up. Sadly, GA says that he was first sexually assaulted the day the filming by Bashir took place. Fucking monster, hope hell is worse than my imagination can conjure. 2 dads of the victims committed suicide. Families and little boys have been incredibly damaged.

Just to reiterate, Jordie Chandler described marks on the underside of Jacksons penis, that could only be seen when he was erect. Not just changing clothes or whatever. THAT is when Jackson settled for $25M and young Chandler fled the country under death threats and refused to cooperate in the criminal prosecution.

I wonder if SONY, who just spent $250M on rights to music and who surely planned to profit from a Michael Jackson Broadway show planned for next year, is pressuring actors/actresses into silence?

I am surprised he kept Jordan around. I read he wasn't complient and resisted Michael's advances. Not sure if they all start out that way and Michael continues his grooming or what. I guess he invested in him and wouldn't cut him lose, which came back to haunt him. Some of these other kids really drank the Kool Aid, like Brett Barnes.

Yes, Jonathan Spence was the one who was married at Neverland; the nanny may have gotten him confused with Wade because James and Wade were the next blond boys on the menu after Spence got too old. Pitifully, of course, it was James who got the "ultimate dream wedding" at Neverland by "marrying" Michael there when he was all of nine years old.

In any event, I don't think being denied a tacky wedding hall is motive enough for making the documentary.

R106 You can't "make" anyone come forward. Culkin, like James and Wade, denied that Jackson abused him for a considerable amount time. Unlike these two accusers, he does not have financial motivation to change his story and I take him at his word.

R112, I know you can't "make" someone, but I feel disappointed he won't admit what happened either. Even before this documentary, Culkin REEKED of someone who had been sexually abused... he was a fucking TRAIN WRECK for years... literally looked like hell, strung out on God knows what... I'm sure he turned to substance abuse to cope with whatever Michael (and whoever else-- he was a famous child star after all!) did to him!

R111 Perhaps, but that seems anecdotal in relation to what was actually written in the article. If true, it is quite damning to request a wedding be held in the home of your abuser many years later. That however is not the most peculiar of his actions either. I personally cannot make dozens of excuses for Robson without doing the same for Jackson. It would seem I am not alone in only finding Safechuck fairly credible at this point in time. His behavior is not nearly as self-seeking and if I were him I would separate from the other guy.

R112, well good for you for taking him at his word. However, I do not. There is a witness that saw him being molested. That person received no financial gain. I believe the employee over Macauley's denials.

R112, It's far from clear that Culkin has no financial motive for what he says. He has not worked for years while being quite financially comfortable, there is his apparently lengthy history of drug use, and then there is testimony from others who worked in the house that Michael had behaved inappropriately with him. All of this suggests that Culkin might very well have been paid to lie.

I wonder if the abuse starting earlier and lasting a lengthier period of time for Wade messed him up in a different manner from James. He said that he visited MJ until close to his death. He acknowledged maintaining the relationship. The change happened when he had his son. Once the kid was born he came to the realization of what the relationship with MJ really meant. That's what led to the 2 breakdowns.

Wade is not a perfect victim. No one is.

I have wondered that too, R117. He spoke of feeling protective of Jackson and of his kids.

The story about his father having been sexually abused as a child was so tragic. Unlike the mom, the father had protective instincts, but was in Australia. When the 3rd kid left to go to LA, the did committed suicide the same night. So much compounding trauma and feeling like a pedo had robbed him of his family. In no way is Wade responsible for the choices of ANY of the adults, but damn, that is a lot to bear. Add in his mom who unlike the Safechuck mother still would not even listen to the abuse details in the film and I felt for him. His wife and brother and sister seem loving and protective, so glad he has them.

The dad was diagnosed as bipolar but there is a lot of misdiagnosis of complex PTSD in survivors of csa. Losing his family to another pedo was crushing to him. By the time Wade moved to LA, Jackson was already moving on anyway, to Culkin. Was Wade the youngest victim? Started sexually assaulting him at 7. Except his own kids were probably younger. Blanket being mute did not surprise me. Kids who have been threatened if they tell can often display selective mutism. Paris was worried about him and about him being left to basically fend for himself. Guess they are too cheap to hire a nanny or manny for him? Those kids have money but so little else.

Wade talked about watching the kids, esp Paris, with Jackson right before the last time he testified. So manipulative of Jackson to stage the scene with his potential witnesses at a dinner. He kept thinking what if they never saw their dad again (like his own trauma) and felt driven to testify to save Paris/Jackson. Wade was like the gift that kept on giving to Jackson, his care for others was the lever he used to manipulate him. Wade also said he could not imagine his then gfriend in the dance business and everyone in his very public profession, knowing, The shame and guilt and fear of telling must have been immense. Jackson had said his life would be over and Wade would go to jail, over and over, from day 1. So brave of him to come forward. And that was such a help to James, who had cut ties earlier but had not processed it all.

Jackson looked beyond freakish by the time of Bashir. We were ALL groomed.

Wade (and his mother) seemed well aware that affiliation with Jackson was going to be great for his career. He used the connection wisely and built a great career for a long time. I don't remember him saying that he "hated" Michael. Actually, my take-away from the documentary was that both boys (now men) were genuinely in love with Jackson. To me, the Neverland wedding is neither here nor there. They all maintained a relationship with Jackson for decades (when MJ gave them the time of day that is). How does any of this wedding crap impact credibility for Wade? He was a mover and shaker and certainly worked his connections - good for him. That is pretty much a given if you are planning to have any career in Hollywood. Feelings were strong with all parties (MJ and his boys). They never appeared to HATE MJ - even now years after his death.

Ronson blurted out in an interview that he, Ronson, had never touched Jackson. Not sure I would rule out Jackson touching him and all bets are off re: Lennon who lived with him for that proverbial 1 year, sleeping in bed with Jackson. Jackson showed both boys porn, part of his grooming MO.

Ronson, like Wade, has been affiliated with Jackson projects recently, since his death.

James Safechuck described Neverland as candy & porn, with tv screens even next to the bath showing porn.

Curious that he has not seen it.

This article tries to make it sound as if they were all children, Jackson was an adult.

Maybe Ronson was the kid who slept on the couch while Lennon was in bed with Michael. That pre-emptive, I never touched him always kinda stuck out to me though.

All these people need to sort out what happened in their own time and in privacy. To have a professional life that intersects, like Mark and Wade do, is just more layers of complexity. Wade even stopped dancing altogether for several years, it was all too entwined.

All so sad.

R117 R118 It's possible, but there's no reason to do mental gymnastics in order to justify someone's behavior as an adult. Before I go that far I would explain away Jackson's strangest actions as mere results of a crappy childhood also.

I think Wade and James still love Michael and both spoke of feeling protective, even now. I think getting to a point where they do feel angry at him may be helpful. Wade is in a tough spot with his mom with his dad being deceased. Michael was the worst possible thing to happen to that family. The grandfather asked the mom if she had lost her mind, when she was moving to LA with Wade and his sister. I think she had. The older brother was left with the father, and moved later. He seems to have not drunk the MJ kool aid and to be very supportive of Wade.

MJ did not kill the father directly of course, but wow, MJ cost them all SO much. Evan Chandler also killed himself, I think?

they were tots when jacko pedo was in their lives. of course the felt innocent love, which he twisted into sexual shit....burn in some volcano of hell Jackson u POS

I never understood the claim that Wade would sue simply for a payday. Wade was one of the top pop choreographers of the past 20 years. In addition to directing and staging shows and writing music (most notably NSync). He had all to lose if he talked about this or testified against MJ. His calling out the abuse is ballsy and only happened bc he matured and found the courage to say what we all suspected.

Love bombing was one of his go to tactics. If he kept them on a 1 year as special friend timetable, the clock was ticking. Love bombing is also a common tactic used in cults. And the ability to understand what is happening at the time, or even later, is impacted by Wade being in 2nd grade or James being in 4th grade or Sean having lost a father, etc. It is hard for adults, who have life experience and who have observed peers, to cope with intense relationships, unequal relationships, manipulation, etc. A little kid vs. a very manipulative adult has no chance. And even later, your adult brain tries to make sense of really strong feelings still in your nervous system. Kids are manipulated to feel that they were responsible, they wanted it, they liked it, etc. It really fucks them up. Both Wade and James could have become victimizers but instead felt overwhelming feelings of protectiveness toward their young sons. Not reinacting it to reaffirm how it was all just normal and loving. They are very strong and very brave.

That is due to grooming, R119. They did appear to be 'in love' with Michael, but they were manipulated at young ages when they didn't know what real, genuine love was. Even them saying that now shows how fucked up it really is. Ask yourself if that is a normal feeling for a kid that age to have. It most certainly is not. They were totally manipulated and fed this in love business by Michael. A normal child around their peers don't talk about being in love or having any feeling resembling love. You have puppy love crushes and you move on a week later. That grown man had NO business being anywhere near those children, none!

As far as Wade. Yeah, he took advantage of his connections and I'm personally happy that he did. His mother is scum though. I think James was detrimentally harmed by Michael. He was more sensitive, so his self esteem was destroyed when he was rejected; demoting him to umbrella carrier. Michael was pissed and when he had a girlfriend or had a crush. Michael also urged him to go into filmmaking and encouraged his parents to pull him from advanced math classes. He discouraged him from going to college. All this was on top of him being sexually molested. Michael Jackson effected his life in such a negative way and I really believe altered his life forever. Wade benefited from the abuse, James did not.

R123, Oprah already described grooming and how victims have complex feelings about abusers even into adulthood. There are no mental gymnastics being made. Wade behaved like a lot of victims do. They care about the offender, believe the bullshit, feel conflicted feelings, etc. You choose not to understand a psychological phenomenon.

MJ acted like someone who is a pedophile. He used long known tactics of sex offenders.

Just a clarification: I meant Wade benefitted career wise from the association with Michael. James didn't benefit in any way at all from Michael.

Yeah, Jacko fucked me up the ass when I was a kid was something he wanted to hide, not share with the world.

They were NOT PAID BY HBO nor for interviews.

The ones with the financial interests are the family and SONY. I side eye all the purported fans online, I think the vast majority are social media teams. SONY spent $250M on music rights just last year and they and the family could have made a kings ransom on the Bway show opening next year.

A friend who worked with DV victims once told me that abusers project and you could learn a lot about their thoughts and plans by what they accused YOU of. The Jacksons had all manner of physical, sexual and emotional abuse in their family, none of that mattered. All they care about is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. Even now, Janet slapped Paris, over $. No one is raising poor Blanket, too cheap to spend the $. Disgusting, loathesome people.

[quote] All this 'Michael missed out on his childhood' crap is beyond a joke. Sure he was in the band but with plenty of money and plenty of siblings he probably had a great time on the road. The worst kind of bad childhood is a lonely one and he hardly had that.

[quote] He created Neverland as a huge and elaborate lure for all the children he hoped to abuse, not because he wanted to be a child himself as his apologists say. What could be more enticing to kids than a theme park?

In fairness, his childhood was indeed awful. It's generally agreed that his father was a cruel man. Few adults, never mind children, are emotionally equipped to deal with the sort of fame that MJ acquired very quickly. And children shouldn't have high-pressure jobs, nor should they be financially responsible for their parents.

That being said, I definitely agree with your second paragraph. He didn't create Neverland to relive his own childhood, he created it to attract children. He knew that the world had seen with their own eyes what kind of childhood he had had, so he latched onto that as the perfect cover story for his bizarre and creepy behaviour.

Blanket is around 17 now. He's almost an adult. I personally believe there is something emotionally or developmentally wrong with him.

Any benefit Wade got from the association vanished once he said Jackson fucked him up the ass as a child.

Wade was and is very, very talented. He would have gone far in the dance world just by his ability to mimic Jackson. The penis shoved in his mouth age 7 did not really add much.

He even stopped dancing completely for years, feeling like it was tainted. Given that it was his profession and that of his wife, that must have been intense.

No need for a victim Olympics between the 2, I am comfortable supporting both men without playing them off.

From James Safechuck's Civil Complaint:

On another occasion, Plaintiff and DECEDENT went to the Zales jewelry store in Simi Valley. DECEDENT was wearing a disguise and the salesperson at the Zales store called the police. When the police arrived and saw that it was DECEDENT, they did not pursue the matter.

Even THAT would have been scary to a little kid I would think.

R135 I guess. Just think about it....The fact that I only believe one of them. The fact that you believe them both. The fact that others believe neither. It's remarkable to me that we won't ever truly know (or agree rather.) Even in death the mystery of Michael Jackson's bizarre actions lives on.

Wholesome!

This poor kid was groomed by everyone. Was this before or after Bruce Willis bought him a Bentley?

I believe and support both as well, R134. That said, I do think it's possible that's why Wade is more together. He achieved his dream. He went through hell to get it, but he made it. That's a tiny bit of consolation. I'm not going to be naive about it, he got there partly due to Michael. There are millions of people who are talented dancers that can't get that foot in the door. I'm not trying to minimize his pain in any way, it's just the way I see it. James' life, on the other hand, was completely altered. His mother's comment that he didn't achieve what he should have. His self esteem was shot and he probably didn't pursue the eduction he should have due to Michael's interference. My heart breaks for all of them, but especially for him.

sony and the Jackson estate are grasping at straws....theyr freeked out his music is being dropped right and left. the word is out HE IS MAJOR PERV WHO ABUSED 7 YR OLD KIDS . NUFF SAID

(WILLIS BOUGHT THE BENTLEY FOR HIS TOY BOY AARON CARTER

yea, aaron carter was bruce's toy for a while, he had others, young stars/ early teen or younger....him and his beards....

To your starstruck mind it's a mystery R136, or rather you'll settle for 'we'll never know' seeing as your attempts as discrediting the victims has failed, but it isn't a mystery, he was in love with boys 7 to 9 and because of his fame and power he was able to live that brazenly, Michael Jackson was a pedophile. The sorry tale may do some good in that such a high profile and blatant case has highlighted how naive we are about pedophilia.

I hope that Wade returns to choreography and directing at some point. He is truly multitalented. I think he would have had success whether or not he met Jackson. Robson displayed a lot of drive from childhood which was why he was choreographing and directing a stage show/tour for someone like Britney Spears when he was 17 years old. I remember the complex Nsync tour he directed and he wasn't even 20 when he did that massive tour.

More wholesome behavior!

I side eye both Feldman and Carter defending him now (although Feldman has backed off) when they were a bit more honest as to him plying them with booze, drugs and porn as kids in the past. We all know where that led with Michael. He had a whole retinue/harem of boys in various stages of grooming. That said, from things Feldman and Haim said, Jackson was FAR from the only one.

He was a cunning and prolific pedo, but focusing on him as a monster makes it easy to make it singular and for the patterns to be missed again in the future.

There are a lot of pedos in the world, esp in entertainment. Not all adopt a child centered world like Jackson, many are married or involve kids in far more of a Playboy mansion lifestyle, see Singer. Watch An Open Secret and learn so you can see the signs. With the way the world is going and the T push to lower the age of consent, we all need to be on guard. Kids deserve protection.

R141 Again, we will never know - and I'm okay with that. It doesn't make me a pedophile apologist or an MJ-hater to accept and understand that.

Headgames galore, no wonder Aaron is such a mess.

All this and Bruce Willis too. That Bentley does not look at all like grooming now, huh?

More seamy details...

I like Aaron Carter personally, and the drawings were quite nice R146. If genuine they are probably worth a pretty penny.

Druggies of a feather, flock together?

Just finished Part One finally. I think the abandoning and casting aside of Wade and James was so cruel and fucked up. I know I am supposed to be more disgusted by the sexual abuse, but the emotional trauma was so devastating. Whether or not you believe the sexual abuse allegations, I completely 100% believe that manipulative Michael abandoned them and didn't care to fulfill his newfound interests.

"Helping" the Robsons move to L.A. and then putting them in some dump and backing off was fucked up. It was just as much the mother's fault too but MJ said he would help them.

Having James fly out for a video, then sending him home early when he cried at seeing Jackson with his replacement was beyond cruel too. As was the weird umbrella thing. It was like once he was done he wanted to test and humiliate. Ugh.

A detective who worked on the investigation confirmed that the drawing Jordie did matched the photo of the underside of MJ penis (what would be seen when it was erect). Everyone has guessed that was the case since Jackson immediately settled with Chandler for $25 million, but this is confirmation.

Even after 1 court case, there was Bashir, and another court case and still more and more boys. Even after the grow your own 2, still more boys. The degree of recklessness or compulsivity or self hatred or all 3 is shocking.

More confirmation of the claims by Jordie Chandler

Why do you keep posting the same links R153? We've discussed Chandler in this thread (and previous ones).

R142 - Wade IS extremely talented from what I have seen. But there are only a handful of jobs like his in the business and you have to get your foot in the door somehow. There are likely 5,000 other boys just as talented as Wade. His MJ affiliation was key to his early success. There is zero doubt about that. Who cares? He and Jordan Chandler were both sexually abused as kids - but Jordan is now $23 million richer after the fact. Wade was able to open some doors in his career for sure - but his "benefit" pales in comparison. That said, Jordan and his parents did what Wade's mother should have done back in the day. Living in hiding your entire life must not be a cup of tea either - millionaire or not.

Just saw Brandi Jackson interviewed for over an hour. Very intelligent girl and very credible. I could believe Michael Jackson molested other boys and still think Wade was lying 1000%.

It would be so interesting if LSA and DL were combined right now. There are hundreds of comments over there against LN and hundreds over here in favor of LN. I would pay money to see such a thread.

R156 I haven't seen it, but didn't really believe Wade anyway. I am one of the (rare it would seem) people here who thinks only James is credible.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

R158 - you have a right to your opinion, but what is your reasoning for thinking that Wade was never, ever touched or molested in any way? The pattern seems so apparent with so many boys and Wade spent a huge amount of time (privately) with MJ. I think that it would be far more bizarre if he were spared verses targeted at some point during that long, weird relationship. Of the two stories, James was the more heartbreaking for sure - but I can't imagine that Wade was around a pedo for almost a decade and never touched.

From DM link above

Jordan however was able to perfectly describe Jackson's buttocks, pubic hair, and distinctive marks on both his testicles and penis.

The mark on the penis could only be seen if it was lifted and was otherwise not visible.

How many times do we have to read that Jordan correctly described MJ's penis?

We confirmed that how many threads ago?

Eh, people are still trying to explain it away in this thread though.

So many connections to Australia. Had not realized his wedding took place in Oz.

Another kid whose life is all fucked up.

It is amazing any of them can form any attachments. He really played head games, the same ones with each one.

Where are any links to Bruce Willis being involved with Aaron?

What was that story where Jacko got into a verbal fight with a maid or secretary and she yelled, " You're crazy!" Then he yelled back, " Does this look like the face of a sane man?" and then pulled his nose off and screamed. She got the hell up out there real quick.

R145 We know.

Until R161, I hadn't really thought about Michael Jackson having pubic hair. I wonder how he got the vajazzling to stick?

Just believing Jimmy and not Wade doesn't make sense. Michael was a chronic offender. No way would he fly Wade and his family all over the world and bring them to America out of the kindness of his heart. The maid also caught him in shower with Michael.

Aaron filed to be an emancipated minor. In the docs he listed a Bentley among a million dollars worth of gifts that he had received from Bruce Willis.

All these kids who got fucked by adults are druggy messes, poor things.

Wade started dating his wife at 18-19 and Brandi said they dated for seven years. A serious relationship at 11-12? Listen to the recent Dan Reed interview. It certainly wasn’t a serious relationship (or really a relationship at all). Also Jackson intense sexual relationship with Wade was between 7-9.

The estate has literally billions at stake and none of the motherfucking Jackson’s work. They’d raise Jackson from the dead to molest more kids if it kept the dollars rolling in.

It’s odd to me that folks keep painting Wade and James as gold diggers when the Jacksons are literal blood suckers.

I hope James and Wade win the lawsuit and financially cripple the estate.

Also when looking at possible Jackson victims anyone over the age of 14 wasn’t attractive to MJ. That means Carter wasn’t molested as he was 15 when they met.

Yes! The truth can not hide forever. Peace to Wade and James.

Let's guess how they'll spin R172 to turn it into a negative. I'll start...

The article is about the three documentaries HBO has shown — Going Clear, Bright Lights, and Finding Neverland — and it clearly states that Finding Neverland came in third. Yes, third place out of three. In other words, it came in last.

This is proof that Finding Neverland is the lowest rated HBO documentary of all time. Even more telling, it descended to the bottom spot in only nine days. Nine days! As predicted, it's a huge failure. NO ONE IS WATCHING THIS!

^^^Leaving Neverland

I'll ask again. Is there proof that these kids were left alone with MJ for weeks? How can his stans claim that it's a lie? Aren't there witnesses that can corroborate this? And why would the mothers admit it if it makes them look bad? Did Brett Barnes go on tour with MJ without his parents?

I guess your 7 year old boyfriend is sleeping R173-175? You Jackson zombies are repulsive.

Do you have a problem with reading comprehension, R176?

[quote]Let's guess how they'll spin R172 to turn it into a negative. I'll start...

R176, no worries... R173 is on our side, LOL. He's just attempting to delve into the addled minds of the crazed Wacko Jacko fantards, that's all...

hey aaron carter, spill the goods on how u were bruce willis' boy for a while, he bought u a shit load of things. huh????

Was Bruce the top or bottom?

R176 can you read? I'm asking why his stans are saying that Wade and Jimmy are lying about being unsupervised. Aren't there witnesses that saw the boys being left alone with him? Don't you ever equate me with one of those pedo apologists!!!

Thanks R178. Apologies, R173, this thread does make it hard to separate lunacy from sarcasm

No worries, R182. Lunacy abounds.

That is a true statement (and you're welcome)...

Creepy

Creepier

honey they sat on bruce's face and let er rip !

ratings bonanza for hbo !!!!!!!

CRINGEY

CRINGIER

R85 We should make a list of celebrities who support the victims. Please add to my list:

Rosie

Oprah

Sam Smith

R191 Sia

John Legend

Drake

r191 Anthony Edwards

R193 I'm not sure Drake is "supporting" anyone.

Well, he has apparently "withdrawn" support from MJ, let's put it that way...

Also, Corey Feldman... no, seriously... Corey has been one of MJ’s most ardent (“he-couldn’t-POSSIBLY-have-molested-a-single-solitary-soul”) apologists for YEARS now, and is now admitting that he himself can “no longer support” those ridiculous denials, so THAT in itself is a HUGE step forward us all, IMHO...

*for us all :)

I'm actually surprised that slimy pedo risked molesting Culkin. I mean, he was a star who had money and fame of his own, unlike his other victims, and he was harder to control. Why do you think he picked him anyway?

Ummm, because he was young, blond, and beautiful (the mantra of most pedo freaks, and others, since Day One of this particular phenomenon)...

R200 I get that. But I mean why take such a huge risk with a famous boy? Why not stick to 'nobodies' who could be easily silenced? Culkin was a superstar, he didn't need Jackson for fame or money. Or was his compulsion so strong that he didn't think about the risks?

R201, I think it's obvious that Michael was incredibly compulsive, and an incredible risk-taker. He was a powerful person who always got what he wanted; nothing was going to stop him.

I note that the boys had weak fathers and the parents marriages were shaky giving the fathers less control over the children. I was raised on a farm in Ireland pre internet and my father and older brother called MJ “shifty” and a “perv” when he popped up on our tv. I think their male instinct made them highly suspicious of a big star who didn’t take advantage by dating beautiful women and seemed too weird to be gay. I will ask my brother if he can recall what gave him that impression, perhaps he was aware back then that Michael travelled with little boys or he had seen pictures but I doubt it. I think it was just instinct.

What’s also interesting is that when the Catholic Church abuse scandal broke here, men accepted it more readily. Women were more likely to excuse the priest by saying he was lonely, he must have been abused in seminary too blah blah. In my hometown 3 men have gone public about their abuse and all 3 were from homes where the father was an alcoholic and not engaged with the children. Other people have said their own fathers warned them about that priest or made comments about not trusting them. Another similarity is that the pedo priest in our town also groomed the families by bringing the mothers gifts, coming around for dinner, promising masses for dead relatives, promising to get the boys (all poor) jobs in the civil service when they were older.

Watching LN gave me chills actually as the similarities between what happened to Wade and Jimmy and what happened to the boys in my town became apparent.

I'm watching the documentary again and I just realized why the pedo defenders don't believe the victims. Wade's and Jimmy's mothers don't look remorseful or devastated. When they talk about Jackson, their faces light up, they smile all the fucking time! A mother whose son was raped would be angry, emotional and look guilty as hell! Now I get why the doubters say the parents only want money. What normal parent would grin when recounting their son's grooming and abuse?!

I think it was a huge mistake to include the families in the documentary. They are giving the crazy stans even more ammo.

R203 again. Another similarity. The 3 men in my town came forward starting in 2005 when they were all married with children. One of them went on a national radio show here and he said he hadn’t accepted he was abused until his child was born. Like Wade and Jimmy, he said seeing his 3 old year old daughter made him aware of just how sick what was done to him was and that it wasnt about love or affection. He admitted that the abuse made him feel special and cared for. It should be noted that the priest who abused him was accused of fellating a 6 week old baby at his Christening. He was moved to the US by the Church in the late 80s and who knows how many other children were abused there. When the accusations went public in 2005 there were reports the priest performed a confirmation service in his parish to a full house. I’m sure he still has his defenders. I really do wonder what it is about sexual abuse in particular that people are so reluctant to believe the victims. Heck, if a spoon goes missing in my work canteen there’s 20 people throwing around names of suspects and accusing everyone and anyone of being thiefs. Humans are very funny creatures.

You’re an idiot, R204

R204, the stans are deluded and grasping at straws. Mothers have behaved worse than these two while and after their children were abused. Doesn't mean anything and the stans know this.

R199 Same reason he picked the other boys he knew the signs that point towards dysfunctional families and parents who would be neglectful. He had an instinct for it just like how good sales people know when they have a sucker on their hands. We'll probably never hear their stories but there are probably a few kids who Michael wanted but wasn't able to have because they were better protected. So far I think the only kids we know of that Michael wanted to meet but was stopped from meeting are the Harry Potter kids.

Also he acted naive, innocent and sometimes even humble when he was on camera but as the people who worked for him and worked with him in business have revealed stories that show he was shrewd and arrogant. So even with Culkin he probably thought he could get away with it or if there was a problem he probably thought he could use his money to protect himself.

R207 I still think showing the mothers who don't exhibit any remorse was a mistake. Read the stans' comments on social media. They are the reason no one believes Wade and Jimmy. Because people refuse to believe that a mother would let this happen to her son and then not show a flicker of guilt about it.

I wonder if the parents can be prosecuted for negligence.

R206 why? You pedo defenders are tiresome. Begone!

The reason the stans don't believe is bc they are stans. Many state that they haven't watched the documentary. At least acknowledge the stans continual bullshit in their attempts to find a reason to maintain their delusions. They are like Trumptards.

Have Culkin's parents ever commented on his relationship with Jackson? How much do you think they got paid by him?

Which documentary were you watching R204? Both mothers seemed pretty remorseful AND they were crying. THIS is why eyewitness testimony isn't considered reliable.

[quote]All this 'Michael missed out on his childhood' crap is beyond a joke.

Yeah...what successful child star DIDN'T have a childhood? Amirite?

[quote]His stans know he did something with an underage boy. They know it.

I REALLY don't think they do, man. They won't even acknowledge his behavior was at the VERY LEAST suspect.

[quote]Ronson blurted out in an interview that he, Ronson, had never touched Jackson. Not sure I would rule out Jackson touching him and all bets are off re: Lennon who lived with him for that proverbial 1 year, sleeping in bed with Jackson. Jackson showed both boys porn, part of his grooming MO.

First of all, Ronson was only a guest of a Jackson regular, so he wasn’t around him long enough for Jackson to get his old-white lady hands on him. Secondly, Ronson wasn’t his type.

R213 I guess I expected them to look truly tortured and broken. Wade and especially Jimmy look like emotional wrecks, but their mothers (especially Wade's) look so cold in comparison. Their tears don't look genuine to me at all. I'm surprised no one is coming after these monsters. The mothers are as guilty as the pedo Jackson.

I don't understand why there is an issue about Wade dating Brandi Jackson. He was publicly dating Prince's exwife Mayte publicly when he was 18 years old. BTW Mayte supports Wade. Did Brandi call out Mayte for being Wade's public gf while she was supposedly dating him? I just don't get her reasoning

In addition Wade stated in interviews that he was sexually promiscuous with women as a way of overcompensating and proving his masculinity to himself. The man acknowledged screwing around with a lot of women and that it was a response to his early abuse.

R209 Chiljhood sexual abuse is rampant in the African American community and parents will put the reputation of the community and the black man above their own child 90% of the time. My boyfriend was abused by both his biological father and later his step grandfather. His mother was told and her response was “don’t you tell anyone outside this family”. Because he’s gay she also attributes some of the blame to him. So when I see black MJ stans blaming the mothers I want to say “look in your own backyard”. My boyfriend wrote to Billy Porter when Billy published an article about his abuse. Billy was kind enough to write back and he mentioned that the AA response to black male celebrities who do wrong tells you exactly why black children don’t report their abuse and why black adults keep it a secret.

Now do I think my boyfriend’s mother failed her son, yes I do. Do I think she’s more to blame or equally to blame as the men who raped his 6 and 10 year old body. Of course not. In fact, that attitude offends me a little as a man. I could be left on a desert island with a child and I wouldn’t abuse him/her. I’d actually take a bullet before I would abuse a child. That’s the same as saying if a woman walks home after dark she asked to be raped and it’s her fault as much as the rapist. BS.

R216 Common sense dictates that you don't leave your son with a stranger for weeks at a time. 9 times out of 10 the stranger will not turn out to be a pedo, but do you want to take that chance? The truth is that if the parents hadn't left their children alone with him, he wouldn't have been able to molest them. Some kids with more vigilant parents were able to get away untouched. How can you not blame the parents?

Everyone blames the parents. They simply do not blame the parents more than Jackson. Jackson cultivated these families; he used his money and fame to groom the mothers as well as their sons. All you need to do is look at the R. Kelly case to see that families will knowingly hand over their children for abuse in exchange for money and a connection to celebrity.

And A LOT of time has passed so I wouldn't expect them to STILL be pulling the "You are NOT the baby's father" Maury reactions.

R217 I said the parents, like my boyfriend’s mother, deserve some blame and that they failed their children. To suggest they are equally to blame or more to blame than Jackson is outrageous and disgusting. He, like all abusers, picked his targets well. Like Jimmy Saville who targeted children in hospitals, orphanages and care homes they will find vulnerable children. I’m very glad there were vigilant parents who protected their children from him but it doesn’t make him less culpable or less of a pedophile that these parents didn’t.

The parents are not more to blame, but definitely equally to blame. It's your JOB as a parent to be vigilant and not to be blinded by fame and money. They pimped out their children. They are as guilty as the pedophile.

R214 They were groomed too and sadly what we saw in the documentary is the one of the ways parents react to stuff like this where they have this disconnect like they've compartmentalised it. Also the moms have some mental distance from it because they weren't in the room themselves and according the Oprah interview Wade's mom asked the graphic details to be skipped during the family's private screening so it's possible that neither of them have fully connected to horror of it. Having some mental distance from it is one of the coping mechanisms that parents in these situations use. Some people would rather disconnect and be numb to those feelings than face them.

You're right Wade's mom seems particularly out of it. From Wade's story we know that he used to numb himself by being hyperfocused on work and that's also a way to be disconnected from facing things and he probably unconsciously learned that coping mechanism from his mom.

I understand the disbelief at the mom's reactions because it is weird but I know there is more than one CSA survivor in this thread and so maybe it's fair to say that I'm not the only one who thought the parent's reactions were sadly familiar to reactions I've seen before.

Yes r222 I think those who think the parents are equally blameworthy have not experience childhood abuse or been close to a victim. For those of us who have it is familiar.

R223 Not true. I was bullied and abused. My mother didn't protect me, she just shrugged it off. I blame her for everything that happened to me. It's the parent's job to protect the child at all times.

Mothers of these boys left them alone with Jackson AFTER the Bashir interview! He admitted on camera that he slept in the same bed with these boys and the mothers still did nothing. Of course they are to blame! Why do you think mothers should be exonerated?

Both parties can be fucked up. Jackson was a child abuser and the parents were also negligent. Some people are desperately trying to deflect blame from MJ when they resort to "BUT THE PARENTS," but the parents are culpable too, because I think on some level they knew they were handing their kids over to be molested.

[quote]We should make a list of celebrities who support the victims. Please add to my list:

Rosie

Oprah

Sam Smith

Sia

John Legend

Drake

Anthony Edwards

Corey Feldman

Stallone

And what about the non-supporters now???

Monique

Wendy Williams

Peter Andre

Has it been established who his first victim was?

And what about the pedo-supporters now???

Monique

Wendy Williams

Peter Andre

Add Brigitte Nielsen to pedo supporters.

Vault Home • Michael Jackson Michael Jackson Michael Jackson (1958-2009) was a famous singer and entertainer. Between 1993 and 1994 and separately between 2004 and 2005, Jackson was investigated by California law enforcement agencies for possible child molestation. He was acquitted of all such charges. The FBI provided technical and investigative assistance to these agencies during the cases. The Bureau also investigated threats made against Mr. Jackson and others by an individual who was later imprisoned for these crimes. These investigations occurred between 1992 and 200

Even accused wife beater and rapist Mike Tyson says that Jackson was a pedophile and that he wouldn't leave his kids with MJ.

BTW lipstick alley people are hardcore disagreeing with one another. A lot are angry that the mods won't let them discuss this in a general thread and instead send all the threads into the MJ Forum where the Wade and James supporters are vilified by the crazy loony MJ stans.

R230 The threat between 1993 and 2005 who was imprisoned must have been Anthony Pellicano.

I wish I could fight a Jacko stan in person.

omg a must see: the maid on 60 minutes/Australia talking bout the soiled boys undies and volumes of vaseliine ev where/ on you tube...she seems very truthful... he a peddy freak !!!

peddy jacko's attorney with the white long hair, does he have blood on his hands for continuing to defend sweet Michael's honor??

You fans and fraus blaming the parents with scarcely mention of Jackson, the man who actually had sex with the children stinks of another Jackson fan scheme to extricate their fallen hero from the shit he chose to live in. Yes the children he fucked ( I know it was mostly oral /jerking off before the fans use that as a loophole, but he did fuck them emotionally ) all had shitty parents, that's because his desire to fuck their children would not have worked with diligent parents, Jackson specifically chose shitty parents. Shitty parents exist but it takes a cynical piece of shit like Jackson to use them as a means to fuck children. You fans are such cunts, you know he was a kiddie fucker but you cling to his dated music like it's your actual life you twist and squirm and blame over and over trying to cast doubt on the unending examples of Jackson's pedophilia, if you wasn't so sick it would be funny.

Ellen, Judd Apatow and Molly Ringwald tweeted in support of James and Wade.

Louis Theroux:

I actually find it more suspicious that people are desperate to excuse the parents. Jackson was a sick pedo. The parents were pimps. Simple. Obviously, the pedo is more to blame, but the parents ALLOWED him to rape their children. That is equally sick.

His own sister exposed him back in the day and only backtracked when her marriage collapsed and the Jackson family bribed her back.

More reactions:

I mean...who are these people that you're talking about R239? Who's excusing the parents? I don't see that at all.

Yea, Messerau (sp?) his white hair attorney is disgusting, still kissing jacksons ass. Unreal.. How does he sleep at night. maybe on a big pillow of $$$$$$.

How did OJ's attorneys sleep, especially Robert Shapiro who knew he was guilty? His son died too, karma is real.

alan dershowitz too, and johnn cockran, all a bunch of $ hungry fuks

R242 the comments that I keep reading here, putting the blame squarely on MJ and pretending the parents had nothing to do with it. I wonder what the agenda is behind that. Parents can be evil. Hell, some parents abuse their own kids.

It doesn't matter what the parents did or didn't do- they weren't the one putting their tongues in the assholes of little boys. That's on Michael.

Also worth mentioning that Michael Jackson wanted to play Robin Williams' role of Peter Pan in the movie Hook, no doubt so he could get access to the kids who played the Lost Boys. Sick fuck. There's a scene in the movie where they all gather around Peter and fondle him, I bet Michael was creaming himself at the prospect of shooting that. Why did Spielberg decide not to use Michael in the end? I can only suspect it was because he knew.

D.L Hughly. He basically said Michael was a pedo and got a free pass because of his celebrity. Compared him to R. Kelly. Unfortunately, he still listens to their music.

He was guilty as hell. Not sorry he died young.

But I will still listen to Billy Jean.

R247 You are vile. How can you say it doesn't matter? The mother actually listened outside the door while the pedo rimmed her son! Both MJ and the mothers are despicable monsters. There is a reason why Wade doesn't speak to his mother. Poor boys, what world do we live in where the victims are vilified and the guilty are venerated.

other victims, please come out and speak ur truth, it will free u and help others...

PYT, Your butt is mine!

Shamore! Shamore!

R251, the mother said she never heard anything. I believe these men, but let's not get hysterical.

Everyone here agree that the parents were shitty and neglectful. They were groomed or fell for the celebrity or got a kick our of being close to MJ or lied to themselves as a defense for their role in making the kids vulnerable. Or like wades mother who seemed deluded enough to think that MJ was interested in her.

They are responsible for the role they played but Jackson was the pedophile responsible for sexually abusing their children. They are not equal in blame. He's the rapist, they are idiots who should have known better. Jackson was the person responsible for the crime. Let's not shift the blame from the perpetrator. They at worse enabled the crime by leaving the door open.

If it were not for this controversy, it would be almost certain that MJ would be celebrated on a US postage stamp. A couple of years ago Janis Joplin, a lesser light, was on one. MJ was a musical genius, but then there is this. I suggest that there be a MJ stamp depicting him as he was when he performed with the Jackson 5--pre-bleaching, pre-surgery. This way his talent would be recognized quite apart from the troubles of his last decade or so. This may be a small way to reconcile the mystery that was MJ>

if u had a 7 yr old son and u found out he king of pop was sucking/fuking him, ude call the cops and cia nd try to kill him!!!

I'm not licking anything with Michael on it.

What was said about childhood sexual abuse and the AA Community is absolutely right. It’s akso true of the Jamaican community. My mom is Jamaican and blamed me for the sexual abuse committed by my paternal grandfather. I was eight....

There’s a ton of generational trauma in the black community. Unfortunately that trauma is often not dealt with in a constructive manner (like therapy)

Keeping family secrets and protecting fellow black folks (even perpetrators of crimes) is paramount. Black twitter has been an absolute horror show in its defence of Jackson.

I cut off all contact with my mother in my early twenties & was much better off for it. There’s so much shame for victims of CSA. Oftentimes parents and family make it much worse with their reactions/assumptions/misconceptions . That’s the gift of LN in my opinion. It exposed the emotional trauma that lingers decades after the abuse has ended. We have to change how we as a society look at CSA. It’s devastating and it’s not taken seriously. The innocent shouldn’t carry the shame of the guilty but they do.

I think the film Shame spoke to this brilliantly as well.

Culkin also had very shitty parents. Alcoholic and neglectful. He may have been famous but in many ways he was the perfect victim.

More shockingly, the producer went into the documentary not wanting to believe the allegations. I'm still mystified when people say that because I've thought it for decades. I'm around the same age as the guys and to me it's been obvious, yet it wasn't to a now 78 year old man? Well, at least now a lot of the truly fence people -- I don't mean the undercover MJ stans that say they're were undecided and still are -- believe it. This will make MJ troll very sad 😭

some day, to clear his cruddy conscience, Culkin will speak the truth and say how jacko molested him also....

[quote] Just finished Part One finally. I think the abandoning and casting aside of Wade and James was so cruel and fucked up. I know I am supposed to be more disgusted by the sexual abuse, but the emotional trauma was so devastating.

Yes, the part that haunts me is the moment when James described crying after being left to sleep on the sofa while Jackson took another boy upstairs. He was still enough to call out for his mother, who had failed him so appallingly. I found that moment even more upsetting than the graphic descriptions of abuse. This boy had been manipulated to the extent that his self-worth was all tied up in validation from an evil child molester. And of course, it was also horrendous to think of the other boy who HAD been taken upstairs, and what must have been happening to him.

Here's the Casanova of the kindergarten shopping for rings with his pre-teen significant other, get spinning desperate fans, what's the explanation this time?

Ihad the impression Joy probably had a better idea of what was going on than she admitted to Reed or perhaps even herself.

This Reddit thread (referencing a link at DL) had some comments that imply Joy really did throw Wade back intomthe monsters cage deliberately.

People who don’t see the irony of calling Mac, Barnes, or any number of boys who once associated with Jackson victims is staggering. It’s borderline harassment. They never even described any behavior that could be interpreted as abuse. You claim to have facts on your side yet most of this thread is just more tabloid speculation.

Feldman said he didn't want to pass any judgment.

OK it's CDAN, so likely bullshit, but on the slight chance it's true this will break the internet, the nightly news, and everything in between:

This former A+ list child actor has decided once and for all to go public with his story of being molested by the A++ lister. He was convinced of it when his pseudo relative told him the whole family always knew what was going on and would cover for him and that the pseudo relative should never say anything to anyone. The thing is though, the pseudo relative was molested and raped by one of the relatives who told her to keep quiet. Since that happened, she has been in and out of rehab and attempted suicide multiple times. She wants not only the A++ lister exposed but also all of the other family members who covered it up and did their own molesting.

I didn't know there was a subreddit for NL thanks

the mod in LeavingNeverland is a pedo jackson defender, top comments are all pedo apologists

the better sub is LeavingNeverlandHBO

R266, "borderline harassment?" That's crazy. No one is contacting these men, and no one is insulting them. As to "speculation," most of what has been discussed is in the public record.

R267, Feldman, in a tweet that was not completely coherent, said that Jackson had told him that sex was "scary & dangerous." Make of that what you will.

R131 said it best and it needs saying again:

The only ones concerned about getting or making (or keeping) money out of this are the Jackson family and SONY.

They are just protecting their blood money - that they didn't earn.

The most important thing to remember about Michael Jackson being a child molester is that it's true whether YOU believe it or not.

You NOT believing doesn't make it NOT true.

Regarding the CDAN blind : Paris thinks Jackson is her natural father, she denies he had a drug problem, she denies he was an obvious pedophile, she thinks he was murdered (!!!), she favourably retweeted Aaron Carter’s insane putdown of Wade Robson

Exactly R272 - Lainey Lui of Lainey Gossip did a segment on her podcast about Leaving Neverland. She is in Wade & James’s corner.

Here's the way I look at the culpability of the parents: Pedophilia exists, and to exist it must have its participants. It sure didn't begin with MJ, and it sure didn't end with MJ. It is an abhorrent sexual deviancy which most societies unanimously reject. However, it still exists and is practiced my some in every culture and/or nation on earth. The participants. We are insulated by the effects of pedophilia by the fact of our own experience - it's just not part of our lives. BUT, again I state that it is a part of life for others both victim and perpetrator. And accomplices, unfortunately. The parents in this case could justifiably make a claim to ignorance and gullibility had the crime occurred once, twice - hell, we'll even give them up to six times, being generous at that. But that's not what happened here. Is it? NO. HELL NO! What happened here is an alleged ongoing sexual relationship between an adult male and prepubescent males - for YEARS in some cases. You're all unloading your ire on the MJ "stans" for their refusal to believe what seems to be true. You're telling them to use their heads and to look at the facts alike. But YOU are NOT using YOUR own heads to see what is blatantly evident concerning the parents. Getting back to the issue of willing participants: Is it really that difficult to imagine that there would be parents who would look the other way in order to gain financially? MJ cannot be classified as your average Chester the Molester, lurking dangerously wherever he may be. He was a man of vast, vast wealth and resources. Extraordinary influence. Any daring opportunist on the make would recognize a potential for the ultimate grift. Evan Chandler comes to immediate mind. What would give the parents the security to brazenly proceed forward with their plan? Again, just because YOU could not possibly conceive the notion of a set of parents doing such a thing does not mean that it does not happen. I'm sure it does. And I'm equally certain that it happened in these cases. To put it graphically - these parents DID, in fact, PIMP their children for financial gain. Citing again the difference between an isolated incident of molestation or six versus an ongoing sexual relationship lasting years. And what do the parents have to say when it's all done and over? They say simply with all forthright incredulity and outrage"What parent would EVER knowingly allow such a thing to happen?" And we all agree....

R275 you are despicable. A 7 year old can’t consent to a sexual relationship with an adult. They don’t even understand what sex is. Whether or not the parents “pimped” them out - they are victims

OH, I assure you that I'm not despicable, and I don't know where the hell you're coming from with the claim. I never mentioned the kids, asshole. My point is that if MJ did the dirty deeds, then he had ongoing assistance in getting to that point. Punk.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

What was the creepy face mask all about? Was it to hide his butchered nose?

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

What's the saying, r41, something about "only stupid people serve on juries because smart people know how to get out of it"?

I'm still thinking the sick pedo took Culkin's spooge and basted Debbi Rowe with it, whether Rowe knew it or not at the time. Who knows he could have had his baby-batter in a ziplock, a used condom, put it on a dildo and knocked her up. Culkin's by now knows, and doesn't want to wreck Paris's life, so keeps quiet about everything, and it all makes him turn to drugs. He bonds with her because he knows he's her daddy. Sick, sick people. The timing is there. And he was indeed a very sick person. And desperate.

Are we sure Victor Guttierez himself isn't posting his fantasies in this thread?

Someone else who thinks the same

Just to the point in the post above, Evan Chandler was a Beverly Hills dentist and also was a screenwriter for Robin Hood: Men in Tights. He didn't need to invent any claims his son was abused to get money from Michael. Michael paid the Chandlers off because he was GUILTY of molesting Jordan.

....

I don't know who the parents of MJ's children are. What a sick.sick world when a drug addict/pedophile can basically buy children though. He had his eight year old "companion" at his marriage to Debbie Rowe. I mean - FUCK

Here's one calling out all the criminals within our law enforcement agencies and legal systems, as well as politics.

[quote]“Leaving Neverland” has broken streaming records for the U.K.’s Channel 4, CEO Alex Mahon said Tuesday.

[quote]During her keynote address at INTV in Jerusalem, Mahon said that Dan Reed’s controversial Michael Jackson documentary has also been the most downloaded Channel 4 show ever and took a 45% share of young audiences on linear TV.

R290, that proves absolutely nothing. He never said he was making it up. I hope all the victims get big money from the estate after what Michael did to them.

Yes, said well gymnasctically...

I said this in another thread --

Why wait until you're 40 to accuse a dead pop star of abusing you? You had 10 years after your 18th birthday to file a lawsuit, but you continued to praise and even deny these same allegations against him well after he died. Your lawsuit was rightfully thrown out and you don't get any sympathy or money.

HBO took one from Leah Remini's playbook - using highly emotional (but cut off) people to remind us of how crappy Scientology treats people. Of course, she never mentions that she was treated very well at the expense of those same folks. I join in being completely unsympathetic for her and these messes of human beings. And please spare me if you believe this is about anything but money, because no one is that stupid and they are nobody involved has charitable intentions for any of us.

Ok all you defenders of this pop star pig, when can you recall you were sexually abused with laser like precision, and how long did it take YOU to process what really happened and have the courage to tell the world , at the expense of your family?

R297 I was 40, but I only remembered when my abuser died and his family cut me off from one of their productions.

Wade, Wade, Wade... I love how the other 5 accusers are conveniently left out. Not to mention the eyewitnesses.

R299 If you go on a TV show alongside someone who has told a number of lies, then it's not a surprise that people will tie your credibility in with that person.

Last mugshot of MJ.

As long as there is a 46 after the name, I’m sold.

To, and from another Anon who is a sexual assault victim...........It is true, I had NO memories at ALL until 20 years after. NONE. Even now, the moments are murky. BUT if you come up behind me, or touch me, or startle me, I'm like a NUKE went off. The unexplained panic attacks, at some times, are crippling. The urge to freaking disappear by any means possible, can overwhelm me in a heartbeat.

Lucky lucky anyone who has never experienced this, really. Would not wish it on my worst enemy. If you are not a Troll,but a genuine real person, who casts doubts on any of these men because of their fuzzy recollections, PLEASE I ASSURE YOU, that not remembering is more than norm then the obverse.

R300 You sad fucker fans are not twisting yourselves inside out, clutching at any straw and slinging mud like shit flying round Neverland trying to protect Jackson ( a clear and obvious pedophile ) because you love justice so much and can't abide 'extortion', no, it's because you are stuck in an 80s daydream of cute Michael and your special relationship with him and his music...grow the fuck up!

Wade was 23 years old when he testified in defense of MJ during the 2005 trial. Here is a picture of him leaving the courthouse. Pure insanity.

R305 see R303

R304. You seem awfully upset. I'm guessing you never got justice for the guy who diddled you? Calling me a "sad fucker fan" or any other of your slurs does not affect me in the least, because like the person who hurt you must have reminded you, you are nothing to me or anyone else. Your pathetic insults aimed at everyone who questions these two just further demonstrates your emotional instability.

It was a high profile documentary R300. They aren't going to make one on each guy. Besides, James wasn't the only one. Jordan, Gavin, Michael H, and Jason Francia. Plus, the older millionaire guy who Michael spoke to inappropriately over the phone. What about the employees who saw. The man is guilty, guilty, guilty.

R307 Happily I wasn't sexually molested but what a cunt you are for thinking that an apt zinger, it shows what a low creature you are, but that is obvious from your posts here already. Your fandom is pathetic, even if Jackson wasn't a pedophile, mooning over a celebrity is embarrassingly immature, to be so incensed as to wish sexual abuse on people because your extra special favourite turns out to be a voracious sexual predator who systematically preyed on children is fucking sick , you tragic, unloved loser.

R308 I understand that, but the people featured in this documentary have a substantial number of lies and inconsistencies that they have tried to explain away using various covers of abuse and even love without even the slightest mention to money or employment motivations.

Furthermore, some of the people in this thread's unwillingness to address these concerns without resorting to juvenile slurs or an all-caps recounting of their own abuse does not explain these things away. If anything, it severely limits the reach of their advocacy and makes these two look even more desperate.

R305, Robson says in the documentary that he initially did not want to testify in 2005. He told his mother that he didn't want to get involved this time. She replied that, unless he HAD been abused, he needed to testify, as he and Macaulay Culkin appeared to be the only ones who could save him now. He wasn't ready to tell his mother (or anyone else) the truth at that point, so that put him in a difficult position. He still cared about Jackson and had nightmares about him being killed in prison.

R209 I assumed you were R303, but my reply still stands. If the pathetic insults of obsessed fandom and pedophile is the best defense you all have against anyone calling out the massive inconsistencies/lies/oddities in these middle-aged men's accounts, then your faux advocacy is not as strong for them as you seem to believe.

R307 is a vile creature.

Fuck you and your bullshit concerns you rancid freak R312, You are a vile creature R313 is right. Your nitpicking crap is ridiculous and your motivation ( pathetic sniveling fan, frantic at the thought of your hero's downfall ) is truly pathetic.

R310- ok, so in your mind, they're lying. Does that mean Michael was innocent? There are other victims, other witnesses, other evidence. A high ranking officer who investigated abuse claims in Australia was convinced he was guilty. His money and influence is why LE never moved forward with other cases. Similarly, a California detective who investigated child sex abuse for 30 years said Michael has all the tell tale signs of a classic pedophile.

R307 Anyone who would sexually abuse a child is a vile creature. Anyone who would lie about being sexually abused as a child is a vile creature also.

I put these two into the second category, because I find their credibility nonexistent and their past behavior, testimony, and lies absurd.

R314 - au contraire, I am glad that you have "figured me out!" Your slur of insults is terribly convincing evidence that refutes every concern about these accusers. Now we just must convince the millions of others that find their credibility lacking along with the legal system. We are so close to justice!

R315 No, I am terribly convinced that Michael Jackson was indeed a pedophile or at the very least obsessed with children in unhealthy ways. Granted, I did not believe the same last week, and as new evidence comes forward I may not believe the same next week either. However, these two and their poor credibility has certainly not had any positive effect on me coming to the conclusion that you all share--he molested them as children and at 40 they are now seeking justice.

I picture you greasy, plain and with very little going on in your life R316 Jackson was a pedophile, he pursued young boys his entire adult life, fuck off with your dumb fan bullshit, we've heard all the inconsistency shit, the blame the parents diversion, the laughable excuses for a grown man canoodling with kids in public he slept with behind locked doors night after night, he was a stone cold pedophile, we all know, your 'millions' are not enough to smother the truth.

So MJ was a pedophile, but just not with these two boys who he slept in bed with, traveled the world with, and sent expensive gifts and love letters to. Got it, R317.

Neither Robson nor Culkin wanted to testify in 2005. Dan Reed has already been contacted by one of Jackson's drivers since the documentary first aired. This is only the tip of the iceberg. The only thing Jackson fans look like at this point, is absolutely balls to wall bonkers.

Jackson bought Culkin a Rolex when he was 11 and Corvette later on. I'm thinking he was also paid major $$$$$ for his testimony and "loyalty". I know he's fucked up but it's a piss poor message to send to CSA survivors.

R317, its highly unlikely that he molested all those other boys and not James and Wade. In fact, it defies all logic. The maid walked in on Wade and Michael in the shower!

Jimmy was totally his type, OF COURSE he molested him.

"Michael Jackson is my inspiration. To me, he's more than just a musical artist. To me, he's God. He's a way of life. He's my inspiration in my everyday life, and I look up to him. He's my hero!"

Here's the deal -- they're both lying. Wade is (of course) the spearhead who prodded James into it. The brokenness James displayed in the doc and on Oprah was guilt. Wade (a known cad) wasn't going anywhere career-wise, and had to drum up something. The many interviews he gave in the past saying that MJ never touched him and his testimony on the stand where he stated the same--THAT'S the truth.

I agree about James being his type. I'd also argue that James was Michael's first. The first boy he groomed, abused and discarded from start to finish. I think the way that James describes their relationship as intense reflects that. For MJ it was exciting . As awful as this sounds, I don't think MJ was as into Wade. I think James was special to him because physically he was MJ's ideal type.

I think when MJ realized he could get away with it and fulfill his desires, he moved on to more boys.

Wade's blood in the underwear story was a little too perfect for me.

MJ managed to penetrate him a bit, and the next day calls him to the studio to tell him to check his underwear for blood and toss them if they're stained, so he goes home, checks the underwear and lo and behold, there's blood? Come on.

As a CSA survivor I lied many times to protect my abuser. He didn't have the wealth or power of Jackson. Wade and James are so, so brave to go up against this insane machine. I hope the Jacksons go to hell and you along with them R325. Pedophile deniers are right up there with Sandyhook deniers.

You're an idiot R325 and you provide further proof at R327

"Wade (a known cad) wasn't going anywhere career-wise, and had to drum up something."

2 Emmys, choreographer for at least 2 major tours (N'Sync and Britney) and lined up to direct 2 movies, but yeah, he was going nowhere.

R318 I presumed it was previously established that you might catch more flies with honey than vinegar? As I mentioned before, this is an anonymous message board. Regurgitating (even esoteric) insults prior to making an argument is a telling sign that your argument will be flawed. Sure enough, I evaluated your message and it is lacking in substance.

As for the rest of your replies, I was sorely disappointed to see you resort to posting the same stories that we have been hearing and which have not met the burden of proof for years. As for the other links, and the "of course he did it" and "how could he not have" related replies, I invite you to glance at the multiplicity of other opinions which differ from yours and you might see that this certainty is "just" a product of confirmation bias.

Also, I feel as if R325 and R325 has chosen to take a different approach to this issue, and I would like to clarify that I am not he. However, I remain interested in his train of thought.

So R329, so you felt angry enough to block me just to see who I am in order to deduce that I made those statements? Tough. I'm calling it as I see it. Cool your jets and stop letting the fact that you have the hots for these boys cloud your judgement.

Yeah, Wade was huge. I knew his work, but I didn't even know about his association with Michael until he accused him.

R326, actually Jonathan Spence was the first boy that he paraded around. James replaced him I think.

[quote]2 Emmys, choreographer for at least 2 major tours (N'Sync and Britney) and lined up to direct 2 movies, but yeah, he was going nowhere.

Stop living in 2003. There is evidence online that Wade contacted the MJ Cirque producers asking to be a part of the show, and he was turned down. He also tried to shop a book deal and was turned down. I find it rather suspect that he waited until Michael was dead to come out with these allegations. I do understand that some abusers have that powerful of a hold on the object of their abuse, but this is all a little too convenient.

In 2011 Wade worked on the Happy Feet movie and was set to direct the Step Up Revolution film. Wade himself backed out, due to what he says was a breakdown.

Stop living in Michael's ass.

R331' Regurgitating (even esoteric) insults prior to making an argument is a telling sign that your argument will be flawed.' Right back at you you pompous twat. at R307 you destroyed any credibility a normal person would have with your sick insult, and your argument is a shitshow. Your obtuse need to discredit the victims in the documentary whilst admitting Jackson's pedophilia is ludicrously pointless. I can only imagine it's a tactic from MJ central to chip away at what is perceived as a weak link in the hope of gaining ground from there. You are failing miserably.

[quote]In 2011 Wade worked on the Happy Feet

That was 2011. This is 2019.

As far as I'm concerned, Wade's credibility was completely shot even before the documentary aired. Shopping the book deal, denying knowledge of the estate, suing them under seal, omitting his relationship with Brandi which lasted for years, his multiple versions of events, him emailing himself, and it goes on and on.

James seemed much more believable at first, but now I'm starting to doubt his story as well. Too many errors in his timeline and it doesn't appear he's telling the truth about the 2005 trial.

Ironically, after watching all the rebutall videos, I'm actually more convinced of Michael's innocence than I was before I watched the documentary. Don't get me wrong, I do believe these kids were neglected by Michael and their parents, but that doesn't make Michael a child abuser.

R334 Yes, and that email was quite diminishing to his credibility. However, I will concur with previous posters that Robson has a number of credibility problems and they are very easy to find and scrutinize if that is your sole intent. However, I am more interested in the content of his actual testimony, which has changed in myriad ways.

R336 And an interesting imagination you would have. I understand that it must be nice in your world, where all men are honest, and financial and other motivations for wrongdoing do not exist. Going further, I can "only imagine" (as you say) that I must be from this MJ central station. Certainly I am ill-equipped to evaluate the evidence if I have come to an alternative conclusion than you? Do you think the Weinstein Company would offer settlement to a victim who advocated on his behalf for many years, and on the stand several times even after the allegations were made well-known? I think we both know the answer to that question.

BRAVO R338. You are talking with some sense, and not like someone with a Jackson grudge and a simultaneous hard-on for the goodlooking accusers.

R338 I concur. You have surmised so eloquently what many have been unable to understand. Their responses to you will hopefully indicate an acknowledgment of your legitimate concerns in lieu of a barrage of insults.

Michael keeps saying "I would never hurt a child" and that is his 'out'... because in his mind, he's not hurting a child by having sex with them, he's giving that child love. That's why the freak believed what he is saying here:

SO I watched and I found James to be more believable. There is something fake about Wade. He may have been abused, but he seemed very calculated and rehearsed. I also thought that both men received rather marked makeovers for the film and Sundance. Wade also seemed less interested in being somehow linked with fellow accuser which I found strange.

Don’t get me wrong - I think Jackson was a pedo. But something about Wade is false.

R337, do keep up. The lie was that when Wade first turned on Michael it was because his career was over.

R342 What institution of higher learning awarded your clinical degree? You psychoanalysis of that video is perplexing.

r345 what is it about the analysis that is perplexing to you?

R113, I remember seeing articles about Culkin sharing a flat with heroin addict Pete Doherty of the Libertines in Paris. He probably turned to the Class As to block out the Neverland memories.

'Too many errors in his timeline and it doesn't appear he's telling the truth about the 2005 trial'

Ct-ers always get hung up on timelines.

Anyone who believes MJ is innocent is up there with the crazy false flag lunatics imo now.

What about the housekeeper mentioned in Part 2?

That’s Blanca Francia, who worked for Jackson from 1986 to 1991. Francia said during the 2005 trial that she spotted Jackson showering with a 7-year-old Robson, something she’d alluded to years earlier in an interview for the popular TV tabloid series “Hard Copy.”

Francia’s son, Jason, was allegedly molested by Jackson on three occasions ― twice at Neverland Ranch and once at Jackson’s Los Angeles apartment known as “the hideaway.” In 1996, the Francias reached an out-of-court settlement with Jackson worth a reported $2 million. Jason testified against him in 2005.

Then there’s Adrian McManus, another housekeeper, who defended Jackson in a 1994 deposition because she worried about potential ramifications but reversed course on the witness stand in 2005. McManus isn’t directly referenced in the documentary, but she recently told the Australian edition of “60 Minutes” that she saw Jackson “kissing” and “petting” boys at Neverland, including Culkin and Jordan Chandler, whose family settled a civil lawsuit against Jackson outside of court in 1994. (Investigators later opted not to pursue criminal charges because Chandler did not want to testify. In the process, they found two other alleged victims who also declined to testify, according to the Los Angeles Times.)

McManus said she signed a confidentiality agreement and was “conditioned” not to question the singer’s behavior. “I was threatened,” she revealed on the program. “His bodyguards told me that if I ever came up on TV that they could hire a hitman, take me out, slice my neck and we’d never find my body. ... I lived in fear for many, many years.”

R345 You've come to a conclusion of fact, but more egregiously, I fear you've failed to implement adequate bias control measures. Your protocol is also lacking. I could provide some more thoughts for improvement but I am currently preoccupied with something more pressing.

Wow, Michael had a weird habit of giving millions of dollars to people who told all these lies about him.

Jackson most likely paid off dozens of staff and boys who will never come forward because they don't want their current lives disturbed or for their current partners to know they were sexually abused as kids. It's a huge stigma to carry around. Not everyone can cope with all the publicity and the hate from the MJ apologists.

R348 Are you speaking in jest? Surely you don't believe that makes any sense.

R342, I agree. I think he truly believed this was normal and the rest of the world had it wrong. Notice how he never directly denied having sexual relations with boys. He just used to say he would never hurt a child. He was the master manipulator. An evil genius.

R349 I believe the maid, like the subjects of this documentary, was also quite litigious. Unfortunately for all of them, her attempt was unsuccessful. She originally told the police she had seen nothing, and saw no problem allowing her own children around Mr. Jackson. She sued Mr. Jackson (and 4 others) alleging wrongful termination. Although her lawsuit was unsuccessful, Mr. Jackson's countersuit was indeed very much a success. There are several motivations which influence her integrity (let alone credibility) but I will spare you. She has however told many different versions of her story, each becoming more graphic as the years progress. Reed is irresponsible for not disclosing her background in its entirety.

As a continuation of R355 - I wonder if any other souls on this message board recall the infamous "Neverland 5?" These 5 maids, cooks, security guards, etc. They were not always used as we see now to paint a clear picture of malfeasance. Rather, they have been in the spotlight for some time. Every one participated in the wrongful termination suit against Jackson when they were fired in the middle of his 2005 trial. They have all made claims against him of some variety of untoward behavior in the past few years, but in 2005 (and now) their accounts are regarded as tabloid gossip by all but the most zealous looking to push a narrative.

Your affected, baroque vocabulary is a scream R341 I see from another thread in which you partook ( to use parlance you will, no doubt, appreciate ) you show a more sympathetic facet to those who lost friends to AIDS as apposed to R307 where you mock child sex abuse survivors, you claim to be 21, when was that ? 1780? You acknowledge at R317 Jackson is a pedophile , the doc details, irrefutably, Jackson's life with these boys and how all encompassing it was, a pedophile having 24 hr unsupervised contact with 'sexy' boys fucks them, your excuse arabesques to discredit this are to what end? To spare a pedophile's estate from paying out to the wrong victims? Because you are such a warrior for the truth you believe in? You are a Jackson fanatic posing as a voice of reason, and I do mean posing, your comically grand manner, presumably created to invest you with an intellectual air, merely makes you sound ridiculous. You are flogging a dead horse, Jackson was a pedophile, he targeted Wade and James, dated them in public, their reactions since, especially covering for him, are classic of CSA survivors, there is no credible reason for doubting them and most people don't.

R357 I am astonished and delighted that you have taken such an interest in my personal life. However, as you know, I am neither Michael Jackson nor a member of his estranged family. I am very tempted to address your comment, but share a greater interest in discussing the allegations at hand.

Has Sean Lennon made a public statement about Michael Jackson?

R359 He has previously defended him, and i have seen no evidence suggesting a change in that position.

Well smell you Milady R358 No greater interest than that of your delusional self, inspired as I was by your investigation and critique of my posts. Your only interest here is in muddying the waters of this murky tale, you may not be Mr Jackson or a relation ( I bet you wish you were! ) but you are an acolyte, desperate to save his reputation. I'm afraid yours is a futile ambition , Michael Jackson = pedophile in the public conscience and you smearing Wade has absolutely no impact on that.

R255, then why did he pay her son 2 million? She also never sued Michael. Michael intimidated all these people, many of which were illlegal immigrants. He even surrounded himself with the Nation of Islam during his trial. You make no sense, you say he's done done something, yet you believe no one that verifies that. The cook also saw him molesting Culkin, he never sued Michael, so there is no gain at all for him to lie. What about Jordan's drawing? You excuse everything away because you are an MJ Stan, just taking a different tactic to defend him. He's guilty as hell.

R361 I offer my sympathy to you. It is apparent that you are having trouble justifying your support of this documentary's more spurious claims. I will not address your personal attacks as i am simply here to discuss the film and allegations.

You should be delighted that someone is adding context to your many posts here. I do not care enough to check, but I would imagine they are considerable. If this clarification directed at your posts is inconvenient for you, perhaps you might reconsider the quality and credibility of what you submit beforehand? Otherwise, you could simply block me.

R360, Sean recently released a weird video about Jackson (apologies for the ad).

R363 Kablocka!

Wasn't talking to me but thats's some tasty bottery,I hope it got paid.

R364 That's bizarre indeed. My best guess is that he is just trying to make a comical video. It would not appear as if he is attempting to tarnish Michael Jackson in lieu of this documentary--as the video was published in 2016. He did say this though:

"I'm just making a song. I'm not trying to take him out or anything, or put him down. I was just trying to have fun and talk about an odd situation in a way that makes it art."

R363 Goodbye! I hope you and others have an easier time evaluating these allegations without the input of anyone who has a different evaluation of them.

^ R365 - in relation to R363

R363 And miss the pleasure of you sweatily rummaging through the thesaurus in your bogus attempt at erudition! you're an idiot R363 and your arguments are as phony as you are, you are a Jackson fanatic incarnate and your attempts to derail attention from the obvious truth of Jackson as a sick pervert are transparent.

Do yourselves a favor and block the vile pedo defenders on these threads.

R369 I am simply here to discuss the allegations without resorting to ad hominem attacks. However, I have no qualms about responding in kind to some of the worst ones I have received. A great number of you are apparently so infatuated with this production that you are unwilling to discuss how the other side views the ideas and information presented within it.

I find fault with Reed for failing to qualify much of what you have been relying on with each other to "piece the story together" or explain away inconsistencies. There is no benefit in presenting evidence that lacks substance, and it is apparent that you have shared a large amount of such evidence amongst yourselves thus far without any questioning. I shall add context to that evidence whether you like it or not. If this doesn't suit you, then perhaps you should adjust your content filter.

R366 he said more than that; he has admitted some commentary on how MJ would pick up,these kids,M shower them with fun and attention, then discard them when the boyhood wore off, just like bubbles gotb expelled when he was aging out and trouble(My words, Lennon's gist and sting.) The visual content is enough for me to think he heard, saw, observed, or experienced more during his neverland salad days.

Remember when MJ hopped off and lived in Morocco for years, hotbed of organised paedophilia? Why is that never discussed?

MJ Apologists = false flag queens

R372 Can you source that commentary?

I found this link referencing his statement in re: the video but was unable to find anything that extreme. I did a search and saw a Facebook post that attributed some comments to him but the page name was akin to "Friends of James and Wade" or something analogous and offered its interpretation instead of a direct quote.

I never thought Jackson was well after the Basheer interview. He came off beyond creepy and a molester of children

R376 Yes, but it is generally acknowledged that Bashir purposefully staged and omitted many details from his film to create an imbalanced and biased representation of Jackson. For example, when Michael Jackson stated that he shared his bed with the boy in the film, Bashir removed the section where the boy added that Jackson slept on the floor.

We know all of this only because Jackson had instructed his own videographer to record every interview without cutting (alongside Bashir's camera crew.) As a result, you can see what Bashir omitted and you also see the interactions between interviews. I highly recommend doing so. Bashir's journalistic practices in that documentary still affect his reputation today.

R303 here again. Just dawned on me, that there are really folks here who believe M Jackson was NOT a Pedophile. That astounds me. to his fans, yes he had a remarkable talent, he was one of a kind, he was a magnificent entertainer. 100%. So was my abuser. MJ can be an incredible once in a generation talent, and still be a Pedophile. You do know that yes? Grown Men Do Not Sleep In Beds Every Night With 7 year Olds. Unless it is your son, or family member, and you are camping and stuck on a Mountain peak exposed to the elements and needing heat to stay alive. Raise you hand all the grown men reading this, who are NOT pedophiles, who sleep with 7 year old Children that are not their own children. I'll wait.................

Still waiting........

I sometimes listen to this podcast called "Last Podcast on the Left," and there most recent one about Michael Jackson is worth your time, they address the MJ pedo defenders talking points and obliterate them and talk about some abuse claims that never made the news.

R378 Thank you for inquiring back in with your story. I appreciate you sharing it. Would you be willing to acknowledge that Michael Jackson's wealth and affinity for children make him a target for false allegations?

R379 Perhaps you can post some of those talking points here, and we can discuss them.

This is r379, I'm not interested in debated with pedophila defenders. You can listen to it yourself. I posted that because I believe sane DL'ers on this thread will find in interesting.

R381 That is quite unfortunate. I am sure that your podcast truly might just address the "MJ pedo defenders (sic) talking points and obliterate them." However, you will have to forgive my skepticism.

What I find it hypocritical are those calling those of us who defend Michael pedo apologists, but at the same time are calling out victims like Mac, Barnes, and Feldman, who never admitted any wrongdoing, or even worse blaming them for being complicit. Even Dan Reed was uncomfortable with the idea of "outing" victims, yet there seems to a contingent on DL who want Jackson's legacy to go down so bad, they are actually hoping for victims, the more the better. That's truly twisted.

I hope more radio stations drop Michael Jackson music. I have contacted the radio stations in my area and spoke with programming director. We discussed the Neverland doc and she found it disturbing. She said I was caller number 19 to call in and ask to stop playing MJ music

My sister said Sirius is still playing him a lot.

Jackson should be removed from the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame

r378, I'm so sorry about what happened to you. I can only imagine how difficult it must be for you right now when MJ in the news again. I hope you have been able to find effective help and I wish you well in your recovery.

Billie Jean has been on blast for some reason, I couldn't seem to escape it at the mall or the drug store or the grocer this past weekend. I wondered if it was coincidence or on purpose.

r388, MJ is on all the time, you may be noticing it more because you've been reading about MJ and probably have a visceral reaction to hearing it.

R383 Yes, it is a bit surprising. Those who were in the company of Michael Jackson as children and who have little motive to lie are not making credible allegations against him. Instead of coming out in troves they are vehemently denying this ever occurred.

There are many such children who must also have been abused if we are to believe this documentary, but rather than accept this, or reject it, I have seen several posters assert that these children are lying and aggressively fault them for telling the truth, as Wade and James did as recently as 2012 (when the first filed a lawsuit).

R386 I suspect they are well aware that removing Michael Jackson from the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame would be more controversial than removing the Beatles. A few replies suggest anecdotal evidence that his music is not being played. However, we are aware that although airplay is marginally down, streaming is increased on all platforms.

R386 It's not like he deserved to be there anyway. Only two decent albums in his career, one in the 70s and one in the 80s. Only one or two good songs per decade. Just a small handful of classics and the rest was crap. That's the reality, he was always overrated and people are only just noticing now.

All you nay sayers burn in hell, and when the devil tries to suck your seven year old penis , then come out in its defense....

R375

Sean Lennon's words: "“I was telling Les [Claypool] about it, and we were talking about song topics, and it just seemed like it fit in with the theme of trippy narratives that our record has. And I thought it’d be interesting to write about something that actually happened. It just felt right. I think I’d resisted much of my life talking about those kinds of stories, because they just seemed so hard to figure out how to translate them or relate them. And I just thought it was an interesting metaphor for what happened to a lot of Michael’s friends who were my age. It felt like there was something odd going on, and I still don’t know what it was. Nothing ever happened with me in an illegal way, but the whole place just felt like I was in some Peter Pan fantasy land. And there was a sense that when Bubbles got too old, he’d have to be gotten rid of, because chimpanzees turn into angry adults or dangerous adults. And it just felt like that was something I could relate to in terms of the whole situation out there. Because there was something Michael liked about hanging out with kids, because they’re so innocent and fun. Then, when you become an adult, it felt like you were a chimpanzee: too old to play with anymore."

R391 I cannot tell if you are being sarcastic, but in case you are not: Michael Jackson redefined the genre of pop. Even 35 years after its release, Thriller still resonates with new generations of music fans: in February 2016, Thriller was certified 32 times platinum, reinforcing its status as the best-selling album of all time. If you are still not convinced, I would suggest visiting this Wikipedia article entitled "List of artists influenced by Michael Jackson," a number of whom themselves have been bestowed with this award.

remove his star, remove him from the hall of fame. rescind every award given to him.... he lied, he molests kids... he is a demonic shithead

R394

I like the video by Sean Lennon and Les Claypool. They capture the absolute freak Michael Jackson was. Rest in hell Michael

I expect there will be a shit ton of these Leaving Neverland threads. These boards have always found a reason to hate Jacko.

R379 Didn't find it terribly compelling, sorry. Just three dudes spitballing for an hour without any real qualification beyond seeing the doc.

R393 That's so bizarre, wouldn't you agree? Sean Lennon goes out of his way to clarify that there was nothing untoward about his relationship with Jackson. My best interpretation of the rest of the statement is that he's expressing a sense of longing to stay in "Neverland," a Peter Pan like fantasy place where he felt comfortable and safe. However, he juxtaposes this by implying that he knows these feelings of safety and joy will not last because childhood is fleeting and even Bubbles cannot escape this phenomenon. I also sympathize with him, as I think back to the feeling of innocence and comfort that existed for him during that time. I think it's dark--but healthy-- and I support the work of art.

R395 Thank you, your contribution to this anonymous message board makes a lot of sense. You are truly a scholar.

R395 I also liked the video. However, I am sure that your rest in Hell will give our divine creator much pause as he compares those sentiments to the many "rest in Heavens" I have also seen since his death.

R379 Christ those dudes are literally talking out of their ass - 15:32 they say that Gavin Arvizo died of cancer. I guess research isn't their forte.

Wade also choreographed and directed Britney's Circus promo tour in 2009. Online chatter was that he quit the full tour bc of the craziness that was going around with her camp at the time. Fans bemoaned his leaving bc they thought her promo tour was well done and Jamie King never got from Britney what Wade did in a short amount of time.

Wade would be doing well had he not had those breakdowns which forced him to step down from his commitments. The fault of those breakdowns was the long term sexual abuse by the King of Pedophilia.

Wade Robson was also allegedly fucking Prince's wife on the side - Mayte.

R399 Thank you for listening to the podcast. I figured it was likely intended for the most ardent supporters of fiction.

Have any of those stars who said they were influenced by MJ rushed to his defense since the Leaving Neverland doc aired? Beyoncé? Jay z? Mariah? Kanye? Bruno Mars? Janelle? Jason or John?

Are there still MJ defenders on DL? How sad.

R402 This is an interesting point. I will address it shortly.

I hope for Sean's sake he is ok and wasn't molested by that monster. His video seems like a giant fuck you at Michael

R405 They do not need to say anything, why would they extend any credibility to false allegations?

R401 Most of these Anti-MJ docu-types will run with that false information. At least one DLer thinks that podcast "obliterates" anyone who questions the abuse of these two.

R408 You don't have to hope. He has clearly expressed to you and me that he was not abused or subjected to any illegal activity. Unless he is a liar, like Wade and James (regardless of how you justify their rationale), then his story will not change.

[quote]This is an interesting point. I will address it shortly.

don't think sean was cute enuf to be messed with by pedo jacko

r406 yes, and it's vile. Evidently, the MJ estate hired bots to swarm social media and defend MJ so I wouldn't be surprised if they aren't here.

The Jackson defenders are wasting their time Jackson was one sick dude and I hope that $250 million dollar musical collapses under the weight of his abusing these kids. I do feel sorry for his own children to have such a pervert as a father. Michael is like that sicko Sandusky

I think James Safechuck is really good looking, and he makes you want to hug him.

Forgive me for this post but: Tiny prepubescent sizemeat verificatia?

R410 I haven't forgotten, just taking an important call.

R413 "Jackson defender" is synonymous with "able to think critically" by your definition. There are many people who see wide discrepancies in the accounts and allegations made by the subjects of this documentary. R338 surmised this so well. The accusers quite simply have no credibility. They are a textbook example of how lying and falsifying so much of your story makes you unconvincing when you attempt to show any sincerity. Furthermore, there are many such children who must also have been abused if we are to believe this documentary, however, these children tell nothing of the sort. Instead, many of Jackson's "young friends" vehemently deny the abuse. Finally, if we compare their accounts of the abuse to these other children, they are identical. The only addition to their stories? A sexual aspect invented two decades after the abuse.

Co-sign R413. Even Sandusky had his mentally unstable apologists as Jackson has.

I hope the Jackson’s are waiting tables at the Olive Garden soon. Bunch of disgusting vultures all of them.

How could Wade have been fucking Mayte on the side when she was his public girlfriend (even a NYT 2001 piece on Wade mentioned them dating) when he was 18/19? She was brought in by Wade to teach Britney how to bellydance around 2000. Mayte posted her support for Wade regarding the MJ abuse.

R412 Rather than believe that a multiplicity of people have come to similar conclusions as I outlined in R416, you truly seem to believe that SONY is paying people to defend Michael Jackson online. This speaks to lunacy, and a desperation to believe a narrative that is not supported by evidence or the majority of the public.

If you were thinking rationally, you would recognize that there is considerable doubt within these allegations, and that doubt is in favor of those who say the relatively new (but quite old) allegations are not credible. We have come to this conclusion because the accusers have lied multiple times, including under oath about the abuse, and their past actions and attempts to quietly extort money before going public with these claims are highly irregular.

It’s a bit of a misconception that pefophiles molest every child. They look for kids with a troubled home life. If you look at Jackson’s known victims their parents were sketchy and economically challenged. That’s why Culkin fits the profile but Lennon doesn’t.

I noticed the MJ apologist never answered about the cook catching Michael with his hand down Culkin's pants or the fact that he paid Jason Francia 2 million dollars. Francia testified against Michael in 2005 too. What about the two SOCIAL Workers on the train that reported Michael to the conductor because they were suspicious of his behavior with Jordan Chandler? What about the investigation of the 2 Mexican boys molested? All right from the FBI files. Anybody else would've been in jail. FBI cover-up.

R417 There is a better chance that you will work at Olive Garden, especially considering the number of your posts on this forum, than any member of the Jackson family would eat (let alone work) there. I would suggest you rethink just how ridiculous you seen.

^R422 *Seem. Your message was so ridiculous I didn't even think to proofread it before responding.

R419, the majority of the public are not defending MJ. Now you've overplayed your hand.

There will always be those that disbelieve accusations against celebrities or family members. Doesn't mean that most people disbelieve. I don't see Culkin denying abuse now nor Janet making a statement and they are probably getting a lot of pressure.

R421 I addressed the Neverland 5, in posts R355 and R356. This is where the claims from these former disgruntled employees whom you all keep referencing come from. All of them were in favor of Michael Jackson, and the maid mentioned above by another poster as witnessing him in the shower with one of the accusers stated she would leave her own children around Mr. Jackson before he fired her. Nevertheless, all of their allegations of being witness to stunning behavior have been discredited for some time, which is why you do not see them referenced by legitimate media organizations. From the previous post:

I believe the maid, like the subjects of this documentary, was also quite litigious. Unfortunately for all of them, her attempt was unsuccessful. She originally told the police she had seen nothing, and saw no problem allowing her own children around Mr. Jackson. She sued Mr. Jackson (and 4 others) alleging wrongful termination. Although her lawsuit was unsuccessful, Mr. Jackson's countersuit was indeed very much a success. There are several motivations which influence her integrity (let alone credibility) but I will spare you. She has however told many different versions of her story, each becoming more graphic as the years progress. Reed is irresponsible for not disclosing her background in its entirety.

These 5 maids, cooks, security guards, etc. They were not always used as we see now to paint a clear picture of malfeasance. Rather, they have been in the spotlight for some time. Every one participated in the wrongful termination suit against Jackson when they were fired in the middle of his 2005 trial. They have all made claims against him of some variety of untoward behavior in the past few years, but in 2005 (and now) their accounts are regarded as tabloid gossip by all but the most zealous looking to push a narrative.

R419 the phrase "quiet attempts to extort money" alone shows you're full of shit. There were never attempts to extort anything, quietly or otherwise. Lawsuits were filed VERY publicly, in an attempt to get compensation for what Michael Jackson took from them.

Your use of that misleading phrase exposes you as someone who's trying to score rhetorical points rather than get at the truth.

Sleep well tonight.

Like the Jackson’s vile and fraudulent hatchet job on the victims isn’t a cash grab? None of that useless family works or ever will. None of their children even work. They’re parasites of the first order and would literally kill to keep the money rolling in.

R424 Do you really think so? I do not. Michael Jackson has hundreds of million of fans all around the world, and his music has been streamed billions of times. A large number of these people would come to the defense of the now deceased pop star. This documentary was watched by 1.3 million people, even if we assume all of them believed it and immediately denigrated Mr. Jackson, then this is a small segment of his fanbase.

R426 The definition of 'extort' is "the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats." Wade Robson filed his lawsuit under seal. Why would he do this? His attorneys were surely aware that the statute of limitations had passed, and the lawsuit would be dismissed. Further, Mr. Robson clearly has no qualms about revealing his identity because he had been doing so for years. Of course, the only logical explanation is that he hoped the Jackson estate would settle, and the matter would never come to light. That is not a case of "not wanting to lie anymore," but thinking "how can I enrich myself at the expense of the Jackson enterprise?"

R427 I agree that the Jackson family has a vested interest in protecting the reputation of their deceased brother, cousin, uncle, son, etc. Of course, he can not address these allegations himself now, and at least two of the people he trusted as friends have claimed they lied, numerous times, including under oath in order to secure money (this is why people tend to file lawsuits of course). It's interesting that you would call this very natural response to these troubling allegations a "cash grab," when the only person who seems to be making that play are the newly situated, but still very much alleged, victims themselves.

R428 again, you're bending over backwards to score rhetorical points. For whatever reason, you have zero interest in the truth of the matter. Robson admitted what had been done to be before he filed the lawsuit. There is zero "extortion" here, and certainly none in the case of Safechuck.

What's your deal? Longtime fan who can't fathom that his hero could ever do such a thing? Wake up. He did it. There is no longer a question. I know James personally, and I can tell you for 100% certain he was repeatedly molested by Michael Jackson, and it has had a substantial negative impact on his life.

People like you help prolong his pain.

You addressed shit R425, not all the employees were involved the lawsuit and none were discredited. They testified to all this, regardless if their story changed. BTW, the chef's story did not change at all. Jordan described Michael's penis exactly. Why did Michael have a naked picture of Jonathan Spence? The FBI has documentation about the Mexican boys and the train incident. I don't know if you're a troll or just fucking stupid, but you are talking out of your ass.

R402 I apologize for forgetting to return to your reply. You assert that "Wade would be doing well had he not had those breakdowns which forced him to step down from his commitments. The fault of those breakdowns was the long term sexual abuse by the King of Pedophilia." I respectfully disagree, and will explain why I believe differently.

Wade Robson penned an email to Cirque CCO, Jean-François Bouchard, pleading for a job in Michael Jackson: ONE, writing, "there are very few subjects I know about more than Michael Jackson.” He was awarded the gig primarily due to his relationship with the Jackson family. Although Wade Robson claimed a series of nervous breakdowns led to him to quit the production, we know from an email included in his dismissed lawsuit that he left during the initial stages, before dropping out for another gig.

After the other gig didn't work out, he asked Bouchard to bring him on board again to choreograph the show. "You will not have to worry about my commitment level again," Robson promised Bouchard, claiming he had learned from his previous flub. Even reading his email now, it is apparent that the choreographer was out for personal gain, even if it meant capitalizing on the memory of Jackson. It's possible that Wade's initial nervous breakdowns were the result of his abuse, however, his emails do not speak to this--rather, we see someone who is clearly intent (and quite successful) on using his abuser's name and fame as an attempt to gain employment and money. He uses multiple excuses that we see repeated in Leaving Neverland to explain his strange actions: the birth of his son, a lack of creative "space," the film "conflict," and several others you can read for yourself below.

Michael was a real piece of shit in every way possible.

R431 I am engaging you respectfully. I find it disappointing that you cannot extend the same courtesy in your reply. I am human, and if I make a mistake I am happy to correct it. However, I stand by my original reply to you. You are adept at making a large number of dubious claims, and it makes it difficult to address them without moving all over the place. I will address your most newest claim as i have already analyzed the others in some capacity.

Jackson's maid is discredited for several reasons. Of course, Reed had no interest in explaining any of them to his viewers so you will have to independently fact-check them yourself. She is the one who claimed to see Wade and Michael in the shower together of course. The most obvious, is that she was fired for theft and doing a generally poor job. There were concerns that this impacted her motivation to present these stories. Two other former Neverland housekeepers also discredited her story and alleged she made it up.

The maid admitted in court documents that she worked in a different part of the 8 quarter house than where this event allegedly took place. Also, her wages had been garnished three times, which caused serious doubt about her honesty and financial motivations. Of course, Wade also discredited her testimony himself in 2005, calling her a liar (now he says he is the liar ironically). Furthermore, she was deemed a liability by the prosecution and the defense when she did a complete 180 on the witness stand, manufacturing a story about her own son "Jason" sitting in Michael Jackson's lap, first watching TV, then reading a book. Nevertheless, clearly Jackson was not very infatuated with her or Jason, because he terminated her for the above reasons well before she made these allegations.

[quote]What I find it hypocritical are those calling those of us who defend Michael pedo apologists, but at the same time are calling out victims like Mac, Barnes, and Feldman, who never admitted any wrongdoing, or even worse blaming them for being complicit. Even Dan Reed was uncomfortable with the idea of "outing" victims, yet there seems to a contingent on DL who want Jackson's legacy to go down so bad, they are actually hoping for victims, the more the better. That's truly twisted.

So good it bears reposting.

I'm gonna make doo doo balls and throw them at you!

People calling radio stations and going on their little grassroot crusades to have MJ’s musical legacy erased are fighting a losing battle. This man is ingrained in our society. His music is the soundtrack to hundreds of millions of lives, on all corners of the globe. In other words, it ain’t gon’ happen, captain.

R373 He lived in Morocco? I thought he only lived in Bahrain before he did something that caused himself to get kicked out.

R373 R438 You are trying to manufacture victims, and it reeks of even more desperation. R435 even explained why this is not a good look.

When the latest inductions to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame take place in 15 days, MJ needs to be ejected from it ceremoniously. He is revolting.

R440 Unceremoniously debunked in R390 and R394

More Safechuck LIES exposed

I blocked just two posts and poof! all of the MJ stan dross disappeared

[quote][R373] [R438] You are trying to manufacture victims, and it reeks of even more desperation. [R435] even explained why this is not a good look.

Oh look. You're making the Sony lawye - er *concerned fan* almost faint at the prospect of more victims coming forward. Time to jack up those fees to the Jackson estate buddy. You're going to earn every penny.

[quote]Why wait until you're 40 to accuse a dead pop star of abusing you?

I’m sure you expected this kind of response...well, here it is. Would it be any different at 30? 25? Does being 40 somehow prove that this is a money grab and NOTHING happened? FOH People accept things on their OWN time--not YOURS. BTW, if you saw the documentary, Wade admitted to keeping quiet for as long as he could stand it. He was also worried about his career and how people would perceive him. Look, I know that I’ve been molested--or something--and I AIN'T even trying to go there. Even though I know it’s the reason why I’m kinda fucked up. Bits and pieces started occurring to me as an adult...but I can’t. I just can’t deal with it.

So...again, there are no deadlines on dealing with trauma.

Facts

Michael Jackson has paid over 35 million to his CSA victims He paid off Jordan Chandler because Chandler accurately described his genitalia The only companions Jackson ever shared his bed with regularly were boys ages 7-12 Jackson regularly plied these boys with booze and pornographers to “lower their guard” Jackson’s modus operandi with victims was virtually the same in all instances An Irish journalist was so concerned after seeing Safechuck confined to Jackson’s room whilst Jackson was on tour, he wrote him a note and slipped it under the door. Asking if he needed help Two Canadian social workers were so concerned after witnessing Jackson with Brett Barnes on a train & hearing strange noises coming from their cabin - that they notified authorities Dan reed had a crack research team. Which is why HBO ran the documentary in the face of the disgusting Jackson’s bogus lawsuit threats

Fact - as his sister stated in the early nineties. Michael Jackson was a sick, predatory pedophile

Sealed documents are standard in childhood and domestic abuse cases.

Imagine thinking a noble cause is defending a dead multimillionaire pedo who rimmed 7 year old boys

[post redacted because independent.co.uk thinks that links to their ridiculous rag are a bad thing. Somebody might want to tell them how the internet works. Or not. We don't really care. They do suck though. Our advice is that you should not click on the link and whatever you do, don't read their truly terrible articles.]

Dr Conrad Murray should be knighted

Zales? He should have gone to JARED!?!

"I Never Copped A Feel"

It's obvious he didn't target the rich and famous kids for his shenanigans. Just kids who had more to lose in terms of money and perks if they exposed him.

Blocking someone is a sign of weakness.

Why weren’t all these self righteous priss pots calling for a Michael ban years ago? Did you not believe Wade when he came out with his allegations three years ago?

Here is what I don't understand is if you are Michael Jackson the most power and one of the richest men in the world paying off some kid to the tune of $24 million dollars when you can hire hundreds of the best lawyers to beat these accusations into the ground like dust

R371 You are not here to make ad hominem attacks? You slipped at R307 I see. and as, during that vile personal attack, you revealed your contempt for CSA survivors I don't think your views on this subject have any validity, you clearly have a grudge against victims generally and are horribly biased. Perhaps you are not a demented fan of Jackson ( though you display all the signs ) just someone who hates CSA survivors, either way you're a cunt.

That Wendy Williams clip linked earlier. See for yourselves if you missed it.

Screw you lawyer. If you paid attention you should know that the truth always comes out, and will seek an alternative path if you block it out.

The crisis PR shills could be the family but are equally if not more likely to be SONY. They just dropped $250M on music rights last year.

Believe they use Sunshine Sachs and it does seem similar to their play the victim/DARVO style campaigns.

Clearly, he was immensely wealthy, but I wonder if there is any private fortune (Bezos and Gates aside) that can afford to run a private theme park with elephants, fountains, gardens without running out as soon as the hits slowed down. He must have been spending just as fast as he was making it, without expectation that his career would ever slow down. It was jaw-dropping to get glimpse of Neverland in the documentary. Given that he also had live-in chimp, MJ makes Norma Desmond seem like June Cleaver. Imagine how weirder he would have been now at 60.

Jackson was heavily in debt at the time of his death. He had a lifestyle (including buying little boys) that he could not maintain.

Pop singers don't make such money anymore. Tell me if I'm wrong.

They do make money, but it goes quick when you blow it on kids, drugs and booze.

Just want to mention that there has been no MJ music on my local radio station. They would always do a triple play of MJ on the morning drive along with other popular artists like Elton, Mariah, Sting, Taytay, Whitney, Maroon Five. I do an almost hour commute both ways and no MJ so far!

that fake fuk wendy Williams defended pedo jacko? fuking dum fuk, no wonder the ratings on her show were better without her

she be gone in 6 months

I'm glad Oprah did a follow-up. She believes those men.

I agree, R467! I haven’t really liked Oprah for the past few years (her ego and arrogance just seemed to be increasingly over the top since she stopped her network show..)

Anyway, I have to give credit where credit is due and I have *major* respect to her for using her name to do the after documentary special with Dan Reed, Wade, and James. That was awesome.

And having only sexual abuse survivors (including the former Philadelphia Eagle’s player molested by the cop and “E.R.” actor Anthony Edwards, who was molested by his former agent) there in the audience for the conversation was great. Good for the guys to see and be around the other survivors too.

In an industry that has a long history of burying or looking the other way at serious sexual abuse allegations—especially against “legends”—Oprah was bold to come out and support these guys, survivors in general, and the LN documentary.

Good for her for using her name for good! I have much respect for her for what she did here after watching the whole documentary and Oprah’s special....

[Quote] Imagine how weirder he would have been now at 60.

Let's not 🤢

Stupid Piers Morgan attacked the documentary maker on British TV.

Good thing CNN threw Piers tired ass off the network. He couldn't draw flies.

Michael Jackson Was Captured On Vintage Security Cam Footage With Little Boy — And Coverage From The Time Is WILD!

Revisiting Another Michael Jackson Accuser: Singer ‘Always’ Asked Him To Sleep In Same Bed

Paris Jackson tweet from today below. The woman is a straight up moron. I hope some of that “energy” goes to Jackson’s victims

they say money is what makes the world go ‘round.. but money is just energy.. and the reason it’s #1 is because that’s the focus of the collective conciousness. imagine if we all focused on love instead?? if that was our mutual frequency?? yooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Hopefully our resident Defender is off the clock for awhile. His tiresome posts took up too much space and time in this thread.

He'll be back when he posting shift starts again later today, I'm sure.

Michael Jackson was a child molester. He molested Wade Robson and James Safechuck and MANY other young boys.

All of your made up facts and deflections cannot change that.

R475 Why don't you just block him? I did. He was too tiresome.

The resident defender isn't really defending MJ --- he's scared to death of how it's going to affect lil sis' career!

The MJ troll on this thread really is a total bore. Worse than the one from the last thread who kept going on about white, gays persecuting a black man. This one has a terrible style. But it still does come down to the same tired argument from them all: Wade is lying. The employees are lying. Michael is the greatest. A dead man can't defend himself. All the while they ignore all the other facts.

At least one poster, more likely multiple posters from different devices, is JanBot. It's going absolutely crazy, but that's not really unusual.

R478 Notice that they never claim that James is lying, wonder why?

R478 Why does it bother you so much that in this overwhelmingly anti MJ thread, you have at least a handful of posters who are not absolutely convinced he's guilty?

They can post all they want, but deservedly so the estate is taking a big hit from this. No Broadway show, no commercial licensing, down streaming sales, radio blockage and a Pedo Palace still unsold.

From King of Pop to Baby Butt Fucker.

R481 - People seem to like to read threads with one point of view. THEIR point of view.

R480 People have said that James and Stefanie are lying. Of course, I don't expect you to know that since you're extremely biased and don't want to read anything that doesn't support your view.

Because you Jackson defenders are often obnoxious R481, see R307, and your rationale for believing him innocent is not based in fact but fandom, it's an ugly situation to protect a rich spoilt pedophile ( even in death ) especially as you have to smear the victims to do so.

Why would Wade lie? Easy. Because no guy in his twenties or thirties wants the whole world to know that a grown adult put an erect body part in their seven year old mouth.

James isn’t lying and neither is Wade, Jordan, Gavin, the two Mexican kids, the millionaire in England who said that MJ was incredibly sexually inappropriate, the two Canadian social workers who heard him molesting Brett Barnes, the claimant list that Pelicano said was voluminous. The man was a pedophile for over 25 years.

He paid off a ton of people and made them sign NDA’s. Even with this...I do believe we’ll see more survivors come forward.

R485 People with such credibility issues deserve to be questions. As far as smearing goes, Jackson's entire family and those who associated with him as children are being smeared constantly.

More like every time I read the pro Michael comments, I lose some brain cells. All talking points, many lies and nothing that disapproves that he's guilty. The posts just sound stupid as fuck. I hope they are bots, because if not, it's quite frightening.

The Jackson family shouldn’t just be smeared they should be prosecuted for profiting from a child pedophile.

Crickets on the Brett Barnes lawsuit against Dan Reed eh? Reed and his research team vetted James and Wade’s history for months before the project began. I’m just glad that this project landed in the hands of such a gifted documentarian. Reed deserves all the accolades and awards. The man has brass balls to go up against these crazies.

R487, I think it was Jordan on the train, not Brett.

More information regarding the Canadian social workers complaint

R488 And what do you make of your fellow defender mocking sexual assault victims at R307? The Jackson family are trash, who know as well as the rest of us, including you, that MJ was a pedophile and they are sweating to bury it so they can carry on feeding off his remains. Jackson was a pedophile, at this point your defense of Jackson is so plainly wrong, so ridiculous and really tacky given you need to shit on victims, that is why you are crushed when you pipe up with your childish nit-picking .

Vanity Fair was and is the best at covering this loathsome individual and family

I hate his silly icky little speaking voice. His sisters speak like that too.

I wonder if Wade Robson and James Safechuck are friends now...not friendly, but actual friends.

Sounds like the pedos need your professional advice, r201, a.k.a. The Pedo Coach.

Some of the footage of Wade teaching those dance classes, he looked like he was about to implode.

"With Michael you can establish in a few days the kind of good friend relationship it takes years to develop with most people. Or at least that's what you believe. He's the opposite of intimidating. He's accessible and vulnerable. You get the feeling that not only would he never hurt you, but also that he's incapable of hurting you. It's like finding a bird with a broken wing. In some ways Michael's a little broken. You become protective of him. You want to nurse him back to health. You want to make him happy. But deep down a strange phenomenon is taking place. In believing that you're safe and in control, you let your guard down and become vulnerable to manipulation without realizing it.

His ability to sense who you are and how you can be manipulated is highly refined. By the time you figure out that the helpless sparrow is actually a vulture that can rip the meat off your bones, it's too late. He goes to great lengths to make you believe he's giving and generous. But he's smart and cunning, like a fox on the hunt. You must remain emotionally remote with Michael to be safe. He means business. He's all business. Nobody controls Michael Jackson. Nobody! He either controls you by manipulating you emotionally or by paying you obscene amounts of money. Either way, you are going to be controlled. "

--Evan Chandler

Right on the money.

Is Paris giving Macauley the go-ahead to come clean regarding his sexual abuse at the hands of her father?

Blind Item:

He's Doing It: This former A+ list child actor has decided once and for all to go public with his story of being molested by the A++ lister. He was convinced of it when his pseudo relative told him the whole family always knew what was going on and would cover for him and that the pseudo relative should never say anything to anyone. The thing is though, the pseudo relative was molested and raped by one of the relatives who told her to keep quiet. Since that happened, she has been in and out of rehab and attempted suicide multiple times. She wants not only the A++ lister exposed but also all of the other family members who covered it up and did their own molesting. Former A+ list child actor: Macaulay Culkin (Paris Jackson Wishes Her Godfather Macaulay Culkin a Happy Birthday) A++ lister: Michael Jackson (Everything Macaulay Culkin Has Said About the Allegations About Michael Jackson) Pseudo relative: Paris Jackson (Paris Jackson reveals multiple suicide attempts) Rapist: (BLIND ITEM "The Uncle")

....

Yes R391 he may have redefined pop culture music, blah , blah blah, and along with that he redefined pedophilia and introduced that to the world as well with his ass licking , blowjobs and anal intercourse with prepubescent young boys, and there were many , many more than the world knows of, his so called legacy is no more .

"Oprah Winfrey is a hideous, lying, sociopathic, psychopathic bitch/cunt from hell." Tell us how you REALLY feel!

Who is that foul-mouthed cunt telling his listeners what to do, R505? Is he some "cool dude" whose podcasts you follow?

^ Shutcho ass up 'fo I start talkin' shit! Don't fuck around now. I'll have yo ass runnin' home cryin' ta Mama!

R507 ^ Gurrl, puhlease!

I HATE South Park.

Only retards find it funny.

Just block the pedophilia defenders.

R434 (Among others) is here. I see many of you have made a series of ad hominem attacks and are still pushing blatant (especially British) tabloid gossip since I last addressed the wide discrepancies in the accounts and allegations made by the subjects of this documentary. [R338] surmised this so well. The accusers quite simply have no credibility. They are a textbook example of how lying and falsifying so much of your story makes you unconvincing when you attempt to show any sincerity.

Additionally, the "talking points" many of you have put together have also been thoroughly debunked, however, many of you are not aware of this because Dan Reed failed to provide appropriate context for them in his "docu." Simply search these threads for "maid" and you will see a number of absurd claims attributed to one individual, each more intense as the years progress; then read R355, R356, and R425 to understand why none of her shocking paid statements command believability or news coverage.

Furthermore, there are many such children who must also have been abused if we are to believe this documentary, however, these children tell nothing of the sort. Instead, many of Jackson's "young friends" vehemently deny the abuse. Finally, if we compare their accounts of the abuse to these other children, they are identical. The only addition to their stories? A sexual aspect invented two decades after the abuse. Adding to the hilarity - the number of posters on here who are insisting that these many children are lying and demanding they reveal themselves as victims, when they are not.

Perhaps the saddest aspect among you, is the one individual is still rabid personal insults directed at anyone who questions the credibility of these people, then hypocritically using the responses to his obscene replies to suggest that others have moral issues. I am looking at you R336.

Let's continue.

Michael Jackson.

+

Madonna

+

MTV

=

God, I hated the 80s.

(& when you're young, pop culture is in your face 24:7)

R504 I see you are partial to the allegations. However, as dozens of Jackson's friends have told us, notably my favorite Macaulay Culkin, nothing untoward ever occurred. Those lies and rather disturbing allegations are the inventions of lawyers and individuals manufacturing a failed lawsuit attempt.

R515 Cont: Again, two decades later.

Seems like they both married good women who stood by their men.

R517 Yes, they married such good women. It is however quite telling that one of the accusers in Dan Reed's production would later beg to wed at Neverland, in the middle of the 2005 MJ Sexual Abuse trial.

It’s fascinating That a lot of the white people who are defending him are from conservative media.

And liberals are the ones who are calling the FBI corrupt and accusing them of a cover-up.

R518, link? And not to an MJ blog site.

R519, of course they are. They are anti-#MeToo, pro-abuser types.

R521 Of course. It is quite ridiculous that Wade Robson would request to wed his then fiance Amanda in the middle of the 2005 trial. It further speaks to his credibility and honesty. From the article:

“If Michael harmed Wade Robson and James Safechuck, they have my deepest sympathy and compassion,” Rwaramba said in the statement, referring to the two men featured in the documentary. “I don’t claim to know what happened between Michael and his accusers. I wasn’t there.”

“However, because Michael is no longer here to defend himself, and because I have a unique view of him and the life he lived, I feel compelled to speak out against what I firmly believe to be false claims. The person that Wade and James describe is not the person that I knew.”

“The one thing that was consistent about the Robsons over the years was Joy's steely resolve to turn Wade into a star,” Rwaramba said in the statement. “When all the other kids, often including Michael, were off having water balloon fights or watching a movie in the theater, Joy would be drilling Wade on a dance move and every so often wave Michael over for some tips.”

Rwaramba also claimed that Robson sought permission to hold his wedding at Neverland -– in the middle of Jackson’s 2005 criminal trial, for which he was acquitted of all charges.

“The Robsons’ ambition and self-interest knew no bounds,” Rwaramba wrote in her statement. “Several months before Michael was acquitted on all charges on June 13, 2005, he came home from court and informed me that I should expect a call from Wade. When Wade called the ranch, security patched the call through to Paris’s room where Michael and I spent most of our time preparing for the next day.

"I put him on speaker phone," Rwaramaba continued. "He informed me that Michael had advised him to contact me about whether he and his finance, Amanda, could have their wedding at Neverland in the fall. I was utterly shocked by how insensitive the request was; Michael was sitting next to me.

SANG IT, Tammy....SANG IT!

I can't believe this is still going on.

He. Was. A. Grown. Man. Who.

Slept.

With.

Little.

Boys.

The end.

As I mentioned previously, the accusers' numerous lies and discrepancies spanning 20 years would suggest they seem to have caught a case of...

I see none of you are discussing the parents. I guess you dealt with that in parts 1-5

Interesting that the fathers hardly featured in their lives. They both had dominant mothers and their fathers were just like shadows - who seemed to have nothing to say about what was going on and no clout at all.

and both the mothers' lives improved financially considerably from this arrangement.

R526 I explained in R377 that the Jackson interview with Bashir was heavily edited. And the interview you keep posting about "sharing his bed" omitted the rest of the story, where the boy explained he slept on the floor while Jackson literally offered him the bed.

If you are truly interested in that interview, I would suggest watching: Take Two: The Footage You Were Never Meant to See (also referred to as "the rebuttal video"), which was seen on Fox in the United States. This was presented by Maury Povich and contains even more material which Bashir omitted (it is numerous.)

^R525, not R526

Thanks for the link, R523. I don't think it really proves much though. By Wade's own admission, he and Amanda went over to Michael's right before he died. He also testified in 2005 for him. So asking to have the wedding there doesn't seem like a stretch. He, himself, said he still was under Michael's spell up until he had his son. Wade could very well be an opportunist, but it doesn't mean he is lying about being molested. There are also eyewitnesses to back him up.

Gotham Chopra wrote a nice tribute to Michael in light of the allegations. My favorite passage:

[quote] Often when I got back from a night on the town, Michael would call me in my hotel room and summon me. I’d head up to his suite and proceed to narrate my night’s misadventures to him and debrief him on all the latest gossip surrounding his band. I didn’t really need to dramatize my exploits, but I did anyway because I knew that he was living vicariously through me and I was happy for it.

R528, he says in the video that he's slept in the same bed as many children, including the Culkin kids. He took little boys on tour with him.

Jesus, what say You?

Jesus: Oh girl! Back in the days of AOL chat, you could have read daily what "some folks" had to say about Me via AOL chat "Judaism"

[quote]And the interview you keep posting about "sharing his bed" omitted the rest of the story, where the boy explained he slept on the floor while Jackson literally offered him the bed.

Bwa-ha-ha-ha. Riiiight.

R530 If we use critical thinking to examine Robson's actions, the explanations for them do not even hint at abuse, but instead financial and other personal gain. Even if we ignore the first time he eagerly testified as a child, then we cannot excuse away his reaffirmation of MJ's innocence (under oath) as a 23 year old man. Neither can we ignore his attempts to use his "abuser" to secure roles and other gain while he was alive and well after his death. I am not suggesting that his request to have a wedding at Neverland is alone definitive proof that he is an opportunist, but am drawing all of the information together because it is not reasonable for an abuse victim or any normal person. Only the most naive will believe Robson's clear praise of Jackson and attempts at personal gain for many years were only overshadowed by the "birth of his son." It's more likely the hospital bill and denial of a job in one of Jackson's performances (after abandoning the crew once before) had a greater effect on his lawsuit than that event.

R535 I honestly don't know how anyone can believe Robson at this point. Even those who think MJ is guilty.

But yeah. Life can be controversial. No one would ever believe that I was five days old when I scored my first John AND caught Herpes in the same day. What? Am I gonna cry about it? Pass the latkes and matzo ball soup. OY VEY!

Even Robson's delivery reminds me of Jussie Smollet. I want to speak the truth as loud as I was forced to speak the lie sounds like something Smollet would say while playing the role of defiant victim.

There are other men who came forward who are not named Wade.

In the Bashir documentary, MJ admitted sharing his bed with boys, including the Culkin brothers.

R537 If i recall correctly, he is preforming the final part of an oral circumcision ritual prominent in the Jewish faith. I think it provides a good example though of how people can look at a picture and see one thing, then understand the context that was "left out." Regardless of how you feel about the ritual (I am not Jewish myself and do not practice it), having all of the information lets you make a more accurate picture. R540 I think you would do well to go back and read my previous posts in R377, R526, and R528.

*performing in re: R541

That Oprah interview is all wrong. Oprah with all her fucking theorising as usual and fucking interviewing them in front of that great big audience like they're promoting some fucking action movie.

“And my friend Gayle says...” cut to Gayle.

Both the guys look white as sheets.

Go get 'im, y'all. Not only did he do what he did, but he also gave the baby HERPES while doing it! Get 'im! What? What are you waiting for? What's the problem? HELLOOOOOOOOO!

I remember the threads we had bacon in 2005 during the trials. Even back then we knew Wade had been abused and covered for Michael bc his career would be over if he testified against him.

I remember us gossiping about Culkin possibly being the sperm donor to the kids. We also looked at the VF interview with info about MJ being caught with wade in a compromising position.

Remember the Must blind item about MJ acting weird with Justin Timberlake or Wade not wanting to have JT connect with MJ bc he was a pedo? There was so many threads then and most of us knew that MJ was guilty and some guesses that an LA jury would never convict a celebrity even if there was a videotape of Jackson performing oral on one of the boys. I still remember the DL threads. I imagine others do to with the exception of the possible trolls who are either paid or heterosexual or just pedos themselves.

*Musto BI

R545 That speculation is absurd. I imagine your are including that anecdotal information to improve Wade’s credibility, as if “some of us believed he was lying many years ago” is somehow an excuse for his erratic behavior now. See R535

Must was on point. This piece is FIRE

SHOLE OF THE WEEK: MICHAEL JACKSON By Chaunce Hayden

It's time for the voice of reason. Michael Jackson was an asshole. There, I said it, and I'll say it again. Michael "creepy, boy-loving" Jackson was an asshole. Got a problem with that? Too bad. I refuse to jump on the "rest in peace, we love you, Michael" bandwagon and shed tears over someone who was so f-ing despicable. How quickly the world forgets or conveniently chooses not to remember.

Allow me to quickly recap the life of this troubled superstar: Michael Jackson was a pedophile. Michael Jackson was a drug addict. Michael Jackson abused his own children both physically and emotionally. Michael Jackson was a deadbeat who owed millions in unpaid bills. Oh yeah, and Michael Jackson could sing and dance like a motherf--ker. And now, he's dead. Boo hoo. What surprises me is how long this frail child molester was able to physically walk the earth. Let's face it; Michael, for all intent and purpose, had left the human race years ago as he morphed into one of his Thriller video characters before our very eyes. But like the "Emperor's New Clothes," the world chose to ignore the true horror of this self-mutilated beast.

For 50 years, this soft-spoken mummy moonwalked his way through life leaving a trail of victims in his wake. God knows how many brainwashed boys were befriended by the ghoulish performer with the lure of cash, toys, exotic pets and an alcohol concoction Michael cleverly called "Jesus Juice" to loosen 'em up before a night of debauchery. Imagine your own child lying in bed next to Michael wondering why the room is spinning while a wig-wearing 5'10", 115-pound grown man in clown makeup gropes at his innocence. Yet, we cry for this animal as if Christ himself was crucified before our eyes. Please, spare me.

Someone should have put Michael out of his misery many years ago. A stake through the heart would have been more merciful than to allow this half-human/half plastic thing to slither through his backyard amusement park, hunting for his pubescent prey. In the end, I believe Michael himself knew what he had become and made the choice to put a stop to the madness. While the word "suicide" has yet to be brought up between all the blind tears, it's my hope that Michael, in an effort to stop himself from hurting any other child, put an end to his own miserable existence.

I will not mourn the death of Michael Jackson no more than I would mourn the death of any pedophile that hunts down children for deviant pleasure...Regardless of his musical abilities.

Tonight, as I write this column, my heart and tears go out to those children who grew up much too soon thanks to the "King of Pop."

R548, R549 That post got 120 replies in 2009, because like many of the posts on DL, it uninteresting garbage and he had died by then.

Walk around wherever you please versus......

R550 it's a great piece and completely on point. Don't you have a moonwalk to practice?

.....Yo ass is goin' to JAIL!

R549, so many people knew. It's a shameful that Michael never got his comeuppance. I was so glad when he died. Too bad it didn't happen sooner. I'm glad the world knows what he is now. There won't be one book, film, or TV movie made about him without the word pedophile attached to it.

I believe Michael Musto is probably the one posting incessantly in these threads. It doesn't appear he's employed.

R555 can you imagine? The same person accusing everyone else of being paid MJ spokesperson has been trolling us every day since 2005...wonder where he came from.

Thanks for the advice, everyone. It's much more peaceful here without the enablers.

R547 I was addressing those of us who were here posting during the accusation trial time. If you weren't here back then, please shut up and sit your ass down.

Can people f/f the pedo apologists so they can't post? F/F before blocking, please! ff is next to the block button

Fuck you, 559! I want to know right NOW why YOU and all the others who damn MJ to hell aren't banging on the doors of Jewish Synagogues from the north and south to the east and west demanding justice for the fellating and HERPES TRANSMISSION of sweet, innocent baby boys all over this nation!

I'll wait while you do your damndest to come up with an answer......

R559, I think that might get the thread shut down or deleted, which may be the goal here.

R559 Rather than discuss the allegations in Leaving Neverland (which is why we are here), you have stated repeatedly that you wish to simply block those who share a different viewpoint than you. This is your prerogative, yet you continue to address us. I can only assume that you are not blocking anyone at all despite your desperate pleas that others do so.

The only person you are depriving of a different viewpoint is yourself, and exactly like the one-sided and soon to be discredited documentary, you are only seeking to display one side of the story. Veritas.

I'm only ffing the pedo apologists who belong on lipstickalley, not the whole thread. I've never had an issue in fact f/f ing works great in another thread I participate, if enough people block the trolls they won't be able to post for at least 24 hours. I don't know if it takes 5 or 10 people for this to happen. But please ff the trolls. Lol. look at how angry they got. But really, it has become disgusting coming here.

[quote]I'm only ffing the pedo apologists who belong on lipstickalley, not the whole thread. I've never had an issue in fact f/f ing works great in another thread I participate, if enough people block the trolls they won't be able to post for at least 24 hours. I don't know if it takes 5 or 10 people for this to happen. But please ff the trolls. Lol. look at how angry they got. But really, it has become disgusting coming here.

I hate them too - but stop telling everyone what to do. Do it yourself and shut the fuck up about it.

Say what you like - my point is absolutely valid - else would I have bothered to state it

R563 believes that "FF'ing anyone who comes to the table with facts about these allegations is a "troll." Sweetheart, those of us who simply are pointing out serious holes in the documentary are not the ones getting "angry." You are the one who has hurled insults at a number of my reasonable replies. I look forward to Leaving Neverland Part 7, when we do all of this over again.

Paris Jackson will never say anything negative about her father. She worships him and she's also criminally stupid.

If the documentary is to be believed (and it was compelling), MJ's life seemed like hell. He had to be constantly on guard for the staff, the parents, and fearing the boys would disclose what was going on. The documentary said that he would be on the phone for hours with his little "friends." You wonder if his obsession with boys left him any time for his business, running Neverland. No wonder he didn't get much sleep. I don't discount the possibility that he welcomed death. Growing old would have been a horrible prospect for him.

I am not comparing the seriousness of the crime with John Wayne Gacy's, but Gacy's last murder was almost sure to get him caught. I wonder if people who live in such darkness at some point just want to give up.

In any event, MJ, RIP.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

R567 R569 Why would she say anything about these allegations? Paris clearly has substance abuse issues that are more pressing. She, like many other celebrities who knew MJ, are either voicing support or remaining silent rather than giving credibility to debunked claims against the now-deceased father.

OMG @ debunked claims. LOl. Can you spell delusional?

PEDO FREAK

R568 I think you recall a good point; "if the documentary is to be be believed," then we would have to extrapolate and apply a number of deceptive characteristics to not just Michael Jackson's life, but that of the film producers, employees, families, children, and many others around him who have no knowledge of any untoward behavior.

There is little doubt that if these allegations were true, there would be dozens of children (at least) coming out and hundreds of witnesses. Michael Jackson was not the master of secrecy as Reed paints him to be. One can merely look at his poor disguises, childlike interviews, and the many documentaries and books detailing his life by those who knew him best to debunk these claims. Again, "if the documentary is to be be believed," then a lot of things would have to be true, and those are simply not supported by the testimony of the children or any other people I mentioned.

....

R572 Yes, he denied there that he was a pedophile, finding the question so ridiculous that he couldn't help but laugh. He was cleared of 14/14 charges and did win the case, so we can only assume that he was found truthful by the impartial examiners of fact.

16:50

[quote][R572] Yes, he denied there that he was a pedophile, finding the question so ridiculous that he couldn't help but laugh. He was cleared of 14/14 charges and did win the case, so we can only assume that he was found truthful by the impartial examiners of fact.

But the people who could have busted him, Wade for instance was too overpowered by it all to speak up.

He himself said in the documentary that he had nightmares of the vision of Jackson in jail.

He just didn't have it in him to speak up.

No one did.

Probably from Idaho or someplace that’s like 95% white.

The Oprah interview was too full on, inappropriate and insensitively handled. It was hideous.

She turned it into a showbiz event.

The look on his face when Jordy's name came up...pretending he had no recollection of him. What a vile POS Jackson was. Rot motherfucker rot.

What was so interesting about Oprah was that she was feeding them the most softball questions ever and yet they still had a hard time answering them. At one point, she asked them if they would have come forward if MJ were alive and they just have these deer in headlights type expression. She eventually moves on (without getting her answer), and at several points she stops the interview dead in its tracks to talk about childhood sexual abuse in general.

[quote]She eventually moves on (without getting her answer), and at several points she stops the interview dead in its tracks to talk about childhood sexual abuse in general.

Right. All her own theories and conclusions.

It was Oprah at her worst.

R577 Wade was 23 when he testified under oath for Michael Jackson again. It is tempting to imagine him as a young boy though-- his claim to having "nightmares" as a child is a clear attempt to cultivate this--but it does not add up. I mention this in detail throughout this thread, notably in R535 and partially in R432. Here is Wade leaving the courthouse. His receding hairline and beard betray that his true age and intentions are to continue soliciting money, fame, and favors from the Jackson enterprise.

He was very much successful at this, and we know from the emails in the civil complaint that he invoked Jackson's name well after his death to solicit roles and money. When he was unceremoniously denied the ability to return to the job (after walking off mid-production), that is when we see the sexual abuse fiction first come to fruition-- by shopping around a book proposal, and then by filing a lawsuit under seal to try and extort money from the Jackson family. Of course, we know these all failed, with no help from Dan Reed.

This is great because Michaela was a HUGE Jackson fan - @MichaelaCoel

If you do not believe Michael Jackson abused those boys go ahead & watch the 2nd half of the doc #LeavingNeverland.

If MJ is innocent do not @ me with Your desperate delusion & disappointment in how I use my platform, MJ fans like myself are seeing straight & moving on. ❤️

R585 Michaela Coel did not know Michael Jackson and has no personal knowledge of the allegations. She is just a semi-famous British actor who watched the documentary and apparently liked it. If you look at the many replies to her tweet criticizing her, it would seem as if she struck a nerve with many who are trying to educate her about the credibility (or lack thereof) of the people in the documentary. Hopefully she will do more research and consider the impact pushing unfounded allegations can have on her career and fanbase.

R393 Also Sean's words: “Um, I was there and the song is indeed strictly autobiographical. The point is that we (the kids), were all discarded when we were too old to play with, just like bubbles. The song is agood. You just don’t get it. Bubbles was my friend and I will write what I want regardless of the opinion of twats ;). ” ~ Sean Lennon

It's fascinating how it resorts to speaking to and agreeing with itself and believes nobody else knows it is.

It gets hella interesting when you follow the degrees. Stacy Brown, a source for Diane Dimond, tweeted about Jimmy's lawsuit before it happened. Stacy Brown also knows Victor Guitterez, an admitted pedophile, who made several appearences on Hard Copy and wrote the book Michael Jackson was my lover, which describes among other things, a mock wedding, and digital penetration into the anus.

R587 I am unable to find that quote anywhere using a Google search. Can you source it?

R589 One could write a book on Victor Guitterez. MJ sued both Dimond and Gutierrez and while Dimond (with a little help from Santa Barbara District Attorney, Thomas Sneddon) escaped unscathed, Gutierrez was ordered to pay Jackson $2.7 million in damages. He never paid and instead fled the country and later filed bankruptcy.

I presume we have thoroughly debunked the allegations presented in this documentary, challenged the credibility and actions of its contributors, and addressed the rampant fake news that was allowed to flourish unchallenged in this thread's infancy. I look forward to doing it again soon in the next installment, part 7!

They're a nutter. I think it's more about attention seeking than Michael Jackson. Same exact thing happened on another non Michael thread. Troll invaded and it was then all nonsense being posted because they wanted it to be about them. Better to ignore than engage.

You haven’t R592, but I’m sure you’ll keep insisting you have.

R593 R594 We will let the people who review this thread later come to a determination.

My intent is to provide additional context, not for you, but for those who seek to understand the context of your speculation. Whenever anyone searches on the internet and makes it to the debunked, false claims here: I am satisfied they will explore further once reading the motivation for those statements.

It goes without saying that I am not going anywhere.

Part 7

Part 7

Part 7

Part 7

Part 7

Part 7

Part 7

Part 7

I do not think Paris is long for this world. I fear for Blanket. How old is he now? Wonder how Prince is faring, little news of him since the doc. Wish he was a bit older and could look out for his brother, Paris is too unstable.

The mutism often correlates with csa - kids who are threatened if they tell (or a pet, etc is threatened) will sometimes not speak for fear of slipping.