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Guilting someone with depression: "It could be worse!"

I shared my struggles with bipolar depression with a friend ("friend") recently. He responded by listing all the people he knew with what he thought were worse physical ailments and basically told me to suck it up.

I felt much worse after this conversation: not only was I depressed, but I also felt like a horrible person for not sucking it up. And I already feel like a bad person 99% of the time, and I often feel like the only way to redeem myself is by committing suicide. (I don't feel that way now; just trying to put my self-loathing in perspective.)

Anyway, why do people respond to depressed individuals in such unhelpful ways?

by Anonymousreply 152Last Sunday at 10:07 PM

Because we're sick of your whining.

by Anonymousreply 103/11/2019

What would you like to hear when you share your struggles with a person, OP?

by Anonymousreply 203/11/2019

Because they falsely believe depression is simply a mindset that can be changed, rather than a disease. Don't feel bad about the things ignorant people say to you.

by Anonymousreply 303/11/2019

Because they are assholes.

by Anonymousreply 403/11/2019

Because that's life and you've got to suck it up. There's no choice in the matter but going on living and sucking it up or committing suicide. And you won't be redeeming yourself if you do it but you will end your misery(I think, unless there is an afterlife and it's even worse.)

by Anonymousreply 503/11/2019

I would like to know OP's answer to r2, wouldn't you?

by Anonymousreply 603/11/2019

My answer is, "I'm sorry you're struggling. It must be awful to have fought depression for so long."

Is it really that fucking hard, r2/r6? Or are you deliberately obtuse?

by Anonymousreply 703/11/2019

Sorry you're going through this, OP. I'm right there with you.

by Anonymousreply 803/11/2019

Thanks r8

by Anonymousreply 903/11/2019

As somebody who has suffered from lifelong depression yes people can be sympathetic but all they are really saying is suck it up. What else can they say? The only people who can really help you in any meaningful ways are therapists and psychiatrists. And then not always.

Though I'd like to know how you can redeem yourself through suicide.

by Anonymousreply 1003/11/2019

I have the same condition and I only have 1 friend who is empathetic. I rarely bring it up to anyone. I’ve had it for 35 years and it’s amazing to me how much ignorance and stigma is still associated with serious psychiatric illnesses. I’m sorry that you don’t have more support.

by Anonymousreply 1103/11/2019

WHY can't he be held responsible for YOUR NEEDS, OP?

WHY must everyone respond in a way that is NOT OPTIMAL for YOU and what YOU want? Doesn't he exist simply to help YOU?

by Anonymousreply 1203/11/2019

I somehow doubt you've ever been seriously suicidal, r10.

Feeling like one is a burden to family/friends is a strong predictor of attempted and completed suicide. When I get very depressed, I feel like I have burdened my friends and family for so long with my mental illness that death will be a way of redeeming myself -- while not taking away the past hurt, it will remove any future damage I can cause.

I *know* it's not rational, r10.

I'm also not engaging anymore.

by Anonymousreply 1303/11/2019

I think both r2 and I were taking a sincere interest in your post, OP. Is unpleasantness part of your depression?

by Anonymousreply 1403/11/2019

Yeah, sorry if I triggered you, OP, but I often hear this complaint and I honestly wanted to know what you would prefer to hear, so I could offer that to anyone who would share with me.

Thank your for the advice.

by Anonymousreply 1503/11/2019

Wait a sec, OP. You're not engaging any more in a thread you started?

Okey dokey.

by Anonymousreply 1603/11/2019

Telling someone with depression that it could be worse is very ignorant, and an unhelpful thing to do. Of course it could be worse, but depression doesn't work like that. I get it, OP. Several family members have suffered with depression, and I know it can be crippling.

One thing I've seen help a few people has been a complete change in environment, if that's possible - a move, a career change, etc. I know that's not easy.

If your anti depressants are not working, you definitely need to tell your therapist, and/or switch to someone else.

Wish I was there with you in person - I know it's very very challenging.

by Anonymousreply 1703/11/2019

People (ppl) who have never experienced true depression or dealt with a family member struggling with it have no idea what it's like. I remember a statement that a person struggling with a personality order would not be able to stop the behavior even if a gun were pointed at their head. Depression is the same: you can't will it away. Another problem is that a deeply depressed individual is reluctant to seek help because they don't want to get better, they want to die. Suicide seems like the solution to all your problems.

by Anonymousreply 1803/11/2019

R16 because he hasn't instantly replied? Calm the fuck down - perhaps someone showed up at his house unexpectedly? Perhaps his dog started throwing up? Maybe a neighbor knocked on his door asking for a favor. I bet you're one of those freaks on Grindr who, when someone doesn't immediately answer, replies with ???? OMG GUESS UR NOT INTERESTED, FLAKE.

Chill, Mary.

by Anonymousreply 1903/11/2019

I wouldn't engage with negative people, OP. Some people don't understand depression at all. Those same people probably make fun of people with cancer.

by Anonymousreply 2003/11/2019

No, asshole at r19, because he said in his post r13 that he's not engaging any more.

Now why don't you calm the fuck down. Your response is seriously over the top.

by Anonymousreply 2103/11/2019

Sorry I posted as R6 but I'm really R5.

I myself tried suicide once by slitting my wrist but when I started bleeding I collapsed as my body went into shock. It was an horrific experience. But I didn't feel I was redeeming myself as it would spare anyone else my pain. My attitude was fuck 'em they caused it(my parents were such shits and honestly no one else cared.) I just wanted out from the pain of being alive. Am I glad I'm alive all these years later? No. But killing yourself is such a nasty business. And what if you survive the attempt and end up terribly damaged?

by Anonymousreply 2203/11/2019

Hi OP, I'm sorry this happened to you. That person obviously doesn't know anything about depression. I am 57 and had my first episode of depression when I was 13 so suffice to say, I've had people say similar things to me over the years. The last time anyone said something like this to me was a former boyfriend who told me I was depressed because I didn't have enough friends. After that relationship ended not long after that, I've chosen to have only empathetic people in my social life and it makes life much easier.

It's not your fault, maybe this friend is kind enough themselves a bit about depression?

by Anonymousreply 2303/11/2019

OP, fundamentally it's because serious illness terrifies people. If they establish that you have some responsibility for it, that you can make it better, or really, it's not that bad, then they feel that they have some control over it and can dismiss the frightening thought from their minds. Maybe they don't want to believe that you are suffering, or perhaps they don't want to be bothered with those thoughts.

by Anonymousreply 2403/11/2019

Crying as I read this thread.

I relate to what's being written here, clearly.

Things are so messed up I feel like I want out.

R22, I'm so sorry things aren't feeling differently for you now. I'm sorry you harmed yourself. I understand that wish to change things and stop the pain.

HUGS

by Anonymousreply 2503/11/2019

Depressed people need to face the facts: Either you want to stay depressed or you want to get better. If you claim that you want to get better and yet list all these supposed valid reason why there is no way you can ever get better then you really, really, don't want to get better and use every excuse you find to not get better.

It's not people's moral obligation to humor depressed people's depressed state and join them in their depressed state and start a circle jerk of depression.

If you want to get out of your current state of depression you must tell yourself over and over again that you want to get out of that depression. And you can't accomplish that by beggin for help from someone who is depressed himself or fully supports, and humors, your current state of depression. In fact: They. Hold. You. Back.

The one and only thing that will get you out of your depression is yourself and your willingness to get out and your willingness to never go back by training, and pushing, yourself to create strategies and mechanisms that prevent you from slipping into future deep stages of depression. Knowing that there are things in place that will help you in the future will make you feel more at ease.

by Anonymousreply 2603/11/2019

Thank you so much.

by Anonymousreply 2703/11/2019

Serious question: I've never suffered from depression, so I have no knowledge at all. But I'm wondering whether a person with depression might subconsciously cling to that condition because it's familiar, and leaving it behind would be painful---and risky, since without it, how do you define yourself?

by Anonymousreply 2803/11/2019

OP, bipolar disease is a serious illness and I'm sorry you have it. I know it's a struggle.

That said, be careful who you share your struggles with. In doing so, you are daring to reveal yourself, to be vulnerable, and not everybody is going to be worthy of that. In fact, most people won't be. But the few who are will grow even closer to you through shared intimacies, and they will be friends truly worth having.

by Anonymousreply 2903/11/2019

The right medication is helpful as well, R26.

R28, No, it's more like you can't see, or can't remember, feeling any other way, or not believing you can ever feel better.

by Anonymousreply 3003/11/2019

I see, I think. Thanks, r30

by Anonymousreply 3103/11/2019

[quote]I shared my struggles with bipolar depression with a friend ("friend") recently. He responded by listing all the people he knew with what he thought were worse physical ailments and basically told me to suck it up.

You can't expect others to follow your script.

If your friend told you that there are " worse physical ailments" and to "get over it" and he did it all without being mean then you have no reason to whine about him not living up to your expectations.

by Anonymousreply 3203/11/2019

People need to understand that you can't just jump from depression to happiness with a snap of your finger. You need to crawl your way up, up, up on an emotional level.

Depressed people don't have access to "happy and blissful thoughts", but they may be able to reach for something a little less depressing and from there to something even less depressing and then maybe reach for something like hope.

by Anonymousreply 3303/11/2019

OP, another reason he acted this way is that these days … EVERYONE THINKS THEY HAVE DEPRESSION. Really, ask around, a huge percentage of the people you know are taking anti-depressants. That guy could well be, or maybe he's considered it because he's been unhappy, and he decided to just suck it up and not mess with his brain chemistry. So if he's projecting his own experiences with sub-clinical depression or unhappiness into the conversation don't resent it, everyone projects their own experiences onto everything.

That said... what could have he said that was right? Think about that, think about what sort of input you want when you talk about your symptoms, the desire vs. the reality. There's a part of the mind that craves pity, but pity is always crushing when actually received. There's a part of the mind that hopes the other person can make it all better, but any attempt to do so feels patronizing or insensitive. What did you hope for, OP?

by Anonymousreply 3403/11/2019

R26 you know nothing about depression. I'm assuming you also feel the same way about diabetics - they just need to eat better. Cancer victims - they shouldn't have been raised with those genetics.

You're quite an ignorant person. You should read more about something as serious as depression. It's not the same as just 'feeling bad' or 'being sad.'

by Anonymousreply 3503/11/2019

It’s not guilting, it’s just a pretty normal perspective that people take: context! The grass is always greener! If your friend isn’t a licensed psychiatrist/therapist/counselor it isn’t really their specialty.

So usually you get two response varieties: - “it gets better/it could be worse” - or “omg! I’m so sorry. Have you talked to someone/you should talk to someone [licensed]”

Either way the response isn’t helpful in the end. Sure it’s nice to get a bit of care and concern when feeling vulnerable but you cannot place that expectation on other people. You’re gonna be disappointed every time.

And I am medically diagnosed with major depressive disorder and anxiety disorder. On three drugs, one being a mood stabilizer (usually used for bipolar). But I certainly don’t lay it at my friends’ feet to have a serious conversation ABOUT depression.

by Anonymousreply 3603/11/2019

This is what several of us asked him early on in the thread, r34, and apparently the question just triggered him.

by Anonymousreply 3703/11/2019

There are some truly misinformed people here. R26 and numerous others. You really should read more in depth - if you have a genuine interest, that is.

by Anonymousreply 3803/11/2019

r35 has suggested that those of us ignorant about depression/mental illness "read something." I see r38 has as well. Let me suggest a relatively new book that is pretty extraordinary: The Collected Schizophrenias, by Esme Weijun Wang. Not depression--or at least not just depression--but a remarkable narrative of this woman's journey (I hate that word, but whatever) through her own mental disorders and the mental health community. No self-pity, no recriminations--just her story.

by Anonymousreply 3903/11/2019

I can't afford to be depressed.

by Anonymousreply 4003/11/2019

r35, I was very much depressed when my mother died and I lost my childhood home to foreclosure and , as a result, tried to kill myself in 2010. Everything I wrote in r26 is from personal experience. I crawled myself out of it by going to a shrink, took my medication, went to a local support group for panic attacks, listen to some self help audio books, started to meditate, and made the deliberate decision to be aware of early signs of depression and how to ward them off. Since 2015 I no longer require taking any kind of antidepressants.

by Anonymousreply 4103/11/2019

r39, people with depression and anxiety don't want pity or sympathy. We're just like anyone else except our moods aren't as stable. When I share with someone that I've suffered with depression they are always surprised because I"m one of the most upbeat person you'll meet.

Empathy goes a long way.

by Anonymousreply 4203/11/2019

I understand this, r42, and I didn't mean to suggest otherwise. That's precisely the point of Wang's book. I can't recommend it highly enough.

by Anonymousreply 4303/11/2019

OP Because they have no clue what it feels like to have depression, real depression. Just try to remember that people who say shit like that have no clue what it feels like so they make stupid comments like that. If they had ever experienced depression they would not say that!

by Anonymousreply 4403/11/2019

[quote] OP Because they have no clue what it feels like to have depression, real depression.

Sure, because only a selected few have real depression while all the others are faking it to fit in. *rollingeyes*

by Anonymousreply 4503/11/2019

R44 Oh boo hoo.

We all have our problems. You're not that important.

I simply don't expect people to understand what I might be going through in my life.

by Anonymousreply 4603/11/2019

Getting into a debate over some asshole's "depression" on social media.

Life's too short.

by Anonymousreply 4703/11/2019

I have to agree with r47. Particularly since the OP seems to have abandoned the topic. Good luck to you, OP.

by Anonymousreply 4803/11/2019

[quote] Particularly since the OP seems to have abandoned the topic.

That usually happens when a thread doesn't get in the OP's desired direction. OP was looking for support trashing the friend for being so rude, insensitive and unsupportive of OP's treasured depression.

by Anonymousreply 4903/11/2019

If you have depression, talk to a psychiatrist, not the "helpful" posters here at DL.

by Anonymousreply 5003/11/2019

Not all psychiatrists are helpful or can be. People see them and still kill themselves. Despite what people like to think not everything in life is fixable even outside of physical ailments. Sometimes suicide is noble and sometimes it is a relief to others and sometimes it is simply an end to unending unhappiness.

by Anonymousreply 5103/11/2019

I have to agree with r2 and r12

My brother claims to be diagnosed as bipolar, however I’ve never seen him in a happy state. Nor has he ever followed up with any appropriate treatment a bipolar would normally be encouraged to do.. I’m beginning to think he’s actually a manipulative sociopath. He expects that everyone needs to tap dance around his problems and walk on eggshells because you never know what you’re going to get with him. All he does is take.take.take, and gives nothing back in return.

Have a problem? It’s never as worse as his life. (So he says)

There comes a point OP where people are sick of hearing about your problems and tales of woe (and in many cases with bipolars their problems are always self created) they never learn from their mistakes.

It all came to a boiling point for me when our father recently (and rather unexpectedly) passed away. Instead of having an ability to help and be supportive of our mother in her time of need and distress - it’s all about him and his miserable life. He’s not shown any sadness that our father is dead - he’s only upset that his life sucks (all self induced problems he created before my father got sick) and because my father is dead he may have to move (he lives and freeloads off my mother and she needs to now sell the house..

by Anonymousreply 5203/11/2019

Tell it to a therapist, OP. Nobody wants you to dump your toxic negativity all over them so they end us as miserable as you are. You're an energy vampire. Piss off.

by Anonymousreply 5303/11/2019

"... your toxic negativity..."

by Anonymousreply 5403/11/2019

Would you like some cheese with that whine?

Sometimes you do have to just suck it up, that is what mentally healthy people do. Thank god you are not flying a plane. It's not always about you.

by Anonymousreply 5503/11/2019

R26 replace the word depression all throughout your post with cancer and see if what you said makes sense to say to a dangerously ill person.

by Anonymousreply 5603/11/2019

Iv noticed most people who talk about having sever depression are big time NARCISSISTS.

Like my boss, sound just like the OP, "no one understands her" Well, its not everyone's job to under stand you. That's your job! Its also your job to fix what is wrong once you recognize a problem. My boss would say she's already tried everything but the method is not the problem, she is.

Her behavior has pushed everyone away from a husband of 30 years to both her adult kids. She has no friends that I know of. She will start a relationship either romantic, friend or business, great for a while then she blows up in some kind of rage 6 months into it burning her own bridge. Then she is suddenly a victim and surprise, she is depressed.

That is how narcissists act when they don't get their way. And no remorse for the other people she suddenly burned. Not a second though. But poor her, no one understand her depression. Never a thought that other people around her might also have depression. Nope all about her. Narcissists.

by Anonymousreply 5703/11/2019

R57 the two aren't mutually exclusive.

by Anonymousreply 5803/11/2019

Take. The. Fucking. Meds.

by Anonymousreply 5903/11/2019

You can't generalize the personalities of people with depression, but have fun adding to the stigma. Most people I know with depression are the most empathetic people you'll find.

by Anonymousreply 6003/11/2019

II agree. It's much healthier for you to wallow in self pity, than listen to someone trying to give you perspective.

by Anonymousreply 6103/11/2019

R26 is clearly worse than Hitler!!!!!!

by Anonymousreply 6203/11/2019

People are not very empathetic about physical illnesses, either.

by Anonymousreply 6303/11/2019

[quote] Serious question: I've never suffered from depression, so I have no knowledge at all. But I'm wondering whether a person with depression might subconsciously cling to that condition because it's familiar, and leaving it behind would be painful---and risky, since without it, how do you define yourself?

If you're seriously depressed, you basically want relief from it (you would not want to "cling" to depression if a lifeboat came by). I don't think anyone would want to define themselves as being "depressed." It's actually a point of shame, not pride.

by Anonymousreply 6403/11/2019

R3 needs to read what R26 said. Studies have shown that in fact it's not a chemical imbalance. There are many ways to get out of depression, but the main way is to deal with what caused or is causing it in the first place. What are you running from? What trauma in your past hasn't been resolved? What pain are you holding on to...on and on and on.

by Anonymousreply 6503/11/2019

I've been dealing with depression since pre-adolescence...I'm 55. Well-meaning people at work-but in other departments than my own- would try the "Just Snap Out of It" crap every so often. In the end, I found it much easier never to talk about it to colleagues. During particularly bad bouts, I'd miss a shitload of work but luckily I had an ultra-supportive boss that once even said to me, "If anybody so much as looks at you the wrong way, I want to know about it!". Knowing she was in my corner meant I really didn't have to worry about what others may have thought. When I had a bit of a breakdown and had been off work for several months, I later found out my co-workers had become very protective and if an outsider dared ask where I was, they'd all answer "He has the flu". Sort of sweet when I think about it. I've recently retired and realize I had it pretty damn good and miss most of them.

by Anonymousreply 6603/11/2019

Oh, poor you!

by Anonymousreply 6703/11/2019

r57 what an asshole you are. I'm sure many people have confided about their depression with you because you seem like such a nice person. My therapist told me her clients with depression are soon of the most sensitive and empathetic people she's ever known. You'll find people with narcissistic personality disorder everywhere, particularly on online forums. I'm going to take the advice of someone upthread and stop arguing about depression with assholes.

by Anonymousreply 6803/11/2019

Now just a fucking minute, Missy R7. Don't you go getting all hissy-fitty when someone asks you a perfectly civil question. Remember, we didn't call you. You called US!

by Anonymousreply 6903/11/2019

The following is not meant as some kind of happytalk cure-all.

Over the decades, some few people have survived the leap from Golden Gate Bridge. All of them have said that, the moment they let go, they felt extreme regret at their act.

by Anonymousreply 7003/11/2019

In my experience people wih depression can be draining if they leech off of other to try and not confront their own problems, but that's not alaeys the case. Some depressed people feel ashamed about it and try to soldier on with their lifes but it's not an easy thing to do.

by Anonymousreply 7103/11/2019

Interestingly, a lot of these responses kind of reinforce my reasons for feeling suicidal. (Which is why I stepped away from the thread.)

Like, why fucking bother, when people are so utterly devoid of empathy and understanding?

by Anonymousreply 7203/11/2019

OP, this site is clearly not the best place for you to work through this. We are strangers to you, and for every empathetic response there will be six snide comments; anyone can come in here and say anything. If you're at all familiar with social media I'm not sure it was realistic for you to expect an outpouring of love and understanding. Or are you just collecting grievances to support your claim that people are shit?

If you have a shrink/therapist, get an appointment; if you don't, get one. Go to an ER or call 911 if necessary. Mention your suicidal thoughts and get yourself seen immediately. If you have meds, take them. If you have even one empathetic friend, call that person and ask for some support in getting out of the quicksand.

Put one foot in front of the other and, to misquote the horrible Newmans of the 60s, be your own best friend.

by Anonymousreply 7303/11/2019

Wow, there is a lot of whining coming from the depressed people here. Look, we’ve all got problems and stresses in our lives. You’re not special because you get down in the dumps about life. Everyone has moments like that. The only difference is, most people understand they need to stop complaining and soldier on through life.

Some people need a serious Cher-snap-out-of-it slap pronto. You can either choose to have a positive outlook on life or a negative. You opt for negative that’s fine. It’s your right. But don’t come complaining to me when you’re moping after not choosing glass half full.

by Anonymousreply 7403/11/2019

Whoops, that's a bit harsh, r74. Depression is a serious illness; you don't just whistle a happy tune and snap out of it.

This thread should probably be closed anyway. None of us should be tinkering with somebody's mental health.

by Anonymousreply 7503/11/2019

Thanks r73.

I actually *wasn't* looking for an outpouring of empathy in this context; I was looking for an answer to why people respond like my friend did. Someone upthread said that serious illness makes most people uncomfortable and they don't know how to respond; that made sense to me.

But I guess I wasn't expecting the high volume of shitty responses.

by Anonymousreply 7603/11/2019

Whoever said that is very smart. Now go find someone you actually know who's at least tolerably comfortable and responsive.

by Anonymousreply 7703/11/2019

everything could always be worse.......you should have punched that person where their empathy should have been located...

by Anonymousreply 7803/11/2019

[quote]Interestingly, a lot of these responses kind of reinforce my reasons for feeling suicidal.

Insufferable people tend to garner those responses. Everyone has their own problems so they don't appreciate someone else dumping THEIR shit all over them too. Sort out your own issues. Quit expecting everyone around you to drop everything and coddle you and sort out your problems for you. Only you can.

Oh and bringing up suicide as a threat? Put up or shut up. Don't manipulate others by trying to guilt them into giving you all their attention.

When was the last time you asked someone else how their day was?

By the way, I'm bipolar and have made multiple suicide attempts in the past. Then I grew up and dealt with my issues like an adult. It's my problem. Not anyone else's. So I don't dump my shit on them much less 24/7. If your attention-seeking, narcissistic behavior all over this thread is any indication, I can only imagine what you're like in real life.

by Anonymousreply 7903/11/2019

[quote] Then I grew up and dealt with my issues like an adult.

False.

by Anonymousreply 8003/11/2019

I’ve suffered from depression for decades. I assume, actually I know, that at this point that nobody wants to hear about my mental health. Even if they ask.

To remind myself of this, I keep this poem in the refrigerator.

by Anonymousreply 8103/11/2019

R75, I guess, if I’m being completely honest, I don’t view depression as a serious illness. HIV, cancer, MS- those are serious illnesses.

And bravo to R79. That’s some truth being spoken that the complainers will most likely not want to hear.

by Anonymousreply 8203/11/2019

On the refrigerator, not in it.

by Anonymousreply 8303/11/2019

r79 same with me only mine was prostate cancer. One day I just said enough - and told it to go away - and voila! C'mon, what's so hard?

by Anonymousreply 8403/11/2019

r82 you sound rather ignorant.

by Anonymousreply 8503/11/2019

Prostate cancer is a real disease. Depression is a way for people to validate their whining and complaining. Yes, there might be a little brain chemistry stuff going on, but it’s easily controlled by meds. If you don’t take the meds or get therapy you need, then STOP COMPLAINING.

by Anonymousreply 8603/11/2019

The world doesn't revolve around you and your "bipolar", OP.

And it's insulting that you assume your challenges are more important than everyone else's. You have no idea what other people are going through.

P.S. Establish some boundaries.

by Anonymousreply 8703/11/2019

I once read - maybe even on DL - suicide's only result is to transfer your pain to someone else. I think it's true. OP - get the help you need and stay on your meds. Best wishes.

by Anonymousreply 8803/11/2019

Thanks, r88. I don't think I'd ever commit suicide; my shrink says it's more an indicator of the level of my depression.

by Anonymousreply 8903/11/2019

OP, it is a sad truth that the sorrier you feel for yourself, the less sorry for you other people feel.

That's the standard emotional reaction to expressions of open self-pity, and the fact is that your friend was kinder than a lot of people would have been. Certainly he was kinder than most Dataloungers.

by Anonymousreply 9003/11/2019

[quote] Interestingly, a lot of these responses kind of reinforce my reasons for feeling suicidal. (Which is why I stepped away from the thread.) Like, why fucking bother, when people are so utterly devoid of empathy and understanding?

Therein lies the problem.

The purpose of life is not to GET empathy and understanding from others. It is to find a purpose outside yourself. To, if you will, distract yourself FROM yourself.

People with physical ailments have to do the same thing if they are to get on with life.

You left the thread because, again, you weren't getting what YOU wanted.

by Anonymousreply 9103/11/2019

OP, if you and your shrink don't think you'd ever commit suicide, why do you keep throwing it out on this thread as a possibility--particularly when you're not getting the responses you seek. It's really manipulative, especially when there are several posters who have been trying to offer you support. And if you have a shrink, why aren't you working through this empathy issue with him/her and with your community of actual friends and family?

I'm not questioning your depression, but I've certainly begun to question your purpose in starting this thread.

by Anonymousreply 9203/11/2019

Again, OP, the more blatantly sorry you feel for yourself, the less sorry anyone else will feel for you.

And just so you know, the typical human response to "If someone doesn't tell me what I want to hear I will threaten suicide" is "Get the fuck over yourself, bitch!".

If what you want is empathy and sympathy, learn to fake bravery, learn how to look like you're desperately trying to hold everything together and failing.

by Anonymousreply 9303/11/2019

OP, short of adopting you, keeping you in a crib, and catering to your every whim, I don't think there's any way I can satisfy you.

You sound like a bottomless pit of self-absorption.

by Anonymousreply 9403/11/2019

the first thing you need to realize and constantly remind yourself during your life is that if a person hasn't been you've been they have no idea what it is like. Some are sympathetic and others think you can talk yourself out of it because they don't suffer from it so they don't understand how you can suffer from it.

Years ago I had a friend that I used to tell some of the awful things that my ex did and they way he treated me. They were always sympathetic but one day they had come to my house and they were in my kitchen with me and my ex was upstairs and didn't know this person was here. (he was the kind that always made himself look like a wonderful person to others) Anyway this slew of profanity came at me from upstairs because he couldn't find something. (I was blamed for everything that went wrong in his life). They stood there with their mouth open and said, does he speak to you like that often? and I said It is the only way he speaks to me. It was at that moment that I realized that even though this person had been listening to me for 8 years they had NO comprehension of what I was talking about.

The next time a person tells you to suck it up, tell them, my advice to you is that you should be aware and grateful everyday of your life that you do not know what this feels like. Then don't talk to them about it again because they will never understand.

by Anonymousreply 9503/11/2019

OP, I'm more worried about the mental state of the people who jump through hoops to give you advice you obviously won't take. At least you have the talent of exposing co-dependents. But other than that, you strike me as emotionally abusive.

You're not the good guy that you think you are, OP. Far from it.

by Anonymousreply 9603/11/2019

Kind of what I was thinking, r96. Manipulative, even on an anonymous board.

by Anonymousreply 9703/11/2019

R73---wise

R74---wise-ass

by Anonymousreply 9803/11/2019

This thread reinforces my belief that "the gays" are just like everybody else.

by Anonymousreply 9903/12/2019

R99 - You mean "the gays" aren't on-demand psycho-therapists either?

This thread reinforces my belief that "the bipolars" are infantilized narcissists.

by Anonymousreply 10003/12/2019

[quote] [R26] replace the word depression all throughout your post with cancer and see if what you said makes sense to say to a dangerously ill person.

You're an ill person for hiding behind the big C but at least you didn't use the Nazi regime for your hysteria.

by Anonymousreply 10103/12/2019

[quote] Like, why fucking bother, when people are so utterly devoid of empathy and understanding?

Dear OP, let's be very clear: What good does others' empathy and understanding do to you in a state of depression? What exactly do YOU get out of it? Do you need others to talk you off the ledge? Is it their responsibility to prevent you from you doing the final step? Is it their responsiblity to feather your safe place you call depression? Do they have to protect you while you are in your comfort zone that is depression?

by Anonymousreply 10203/12/2019

[quote] The next time a person tells you to suck it up, tell them, my advice to you is that you should be aware and grateful everyday of your life that you do not know what this feels like. Then don't talk to them about it again because they will never understand.

Your story at r95 reminds me of something I was told in a group session for panic attacks.

Two people can be in the same room but they will not be able to perceive the room the same way like the other, because one is depressed and the other one is not. The one who is depressed doesn't see any door to get out while the other one does. The depressed one gets very agitated when the non-depressed one points at the door where they can both leave the room, because the depressed one cannot see it and thinks the non-depressed one is crazy for seeing things that are not there and the non-depressed one is confused why the depressed ignores the fact that there is a door.

by Anonymousreply 10303/12/2019

The story ends with the non-depressed on being just fed up and leaving the room on his own through the door and the depressed one being angry that the other left him behind instead of wondering if the non-depressed was right and there is a door after all.

by Anonymousreply 10403/12/2019

Wow a lot of people have never been through a serious depression where through your mental state you become paralyzed physically in many ways or simply can't get out of bed. Also sometimes your anxiety goes sky high and there is nothing you can do about it. The mental becomes physical and the body is trying to protect you. The problem is that in doing so a body can overreact thereby incapacitating you or causing you to act out in destructive ways. Your body unhappily is not always your best friend. It takes on a life of its own. Same with your mind. Before the 20th Century seemingly able bodied people still had nervous breakdowns, that's what asylums were for, and committed suicide.

by Anonymousreply 10503/12/2019

well done, r104.

by Anonymousreply 10603/12/2019

OP, we're just not that into you.

by Anonymousreply 10703/12/2019

Well, if we were, it's run its course.

by Anonymousreply 10803/12/2019

I once had an old casual school friend meet me for a quick after-work drink in a music bar, and literally run off to the bathroom to climb out the window the minute I casually mentioned that I'd been depressed. I wasn't even feeling that bad or talking negatively that day, and made this comment in a very matter-of-fact way. I sat for 20 minutes nursing a drink before I realised the bathroom door was open and this bitch ditched our date. Iirc I just laughed off the shock, paid up and went my merry way home to enjoy my evening alone.

What's funny is that same friend ghosted me for two years, but then mysteriously texted me a couple summers later out of the blue after she'd been dumped and moved to a new city where she had no friends. I was less than sympathetic, and so made up an elaborate exciting tale all about how I'd recovered and had been travelling between communes during our time apart just to make her feel like a boring zilch (I was actually only getting better slowly and had been at home living hand-to-mouth, but she did not need to know that).

I haven't spoken to her since that text exchange (which was like five or six years ago, or something? I forget). I'm actually glad she showed me her true colors so I could cut her off; I just wish she'd done it sooner so I didn't waste my HS years hanging out with and trying to appease someone who didn't really like me or know me.

by Anonymousreply 10903/12/2019

This is a very peculiar story, r109. I'm not at all sure what the take-away is, but you seem to have spent a lot of years nursing this grievance.

by Anonymousreply 11003/12/2019

[quote] you seem to have spent a lot of years nursing this grievance.

^^uh, no, not really, R110? I find it darkly funny in hindsight, and I only tell the story to others as an illustration of how people treat these emotional crises we have as if they're contagious. It's more of a cautionary tale and a silly bleak little anecdote about social awkwardness, in my view. I honestly don't care at all that it went down like it did and tbh it doesn't seem surprising that she did it looking back. I'm cool with it, it's just a memory.

by Anonymousreply 11103/12/2019

My mind literally tries to kill me. And I hate it.

If that's not a serious illness, I don't know what it is.

by Anonymousreply 11203/12/2019

Oh gee, that's too bad R112. I really feel for you.

Now what?

by Anonymousreply 11303/12/2019

Champagne for real friends.

Real pain for sham friends.

by Anonymousreply 11403/12/2019

OP, Is your spirit animal a lesbian potluck?

by Anonymousreply 11503/12/2019

R91 EMPATHY IS NOT SOMETHING YOU 'TRY TO GET' FROM PEOPLE

IT SHOULD BE SOMETHING YOU HAVE WITHIN YOURSELF so you understand what others feel.

ya dummy.

by Anonymousreply 11603/12/2019

Nurse Ratched is alive and well and posting on Datalounge!

by Anonymousreply 11703/12/2019

So many Heathers on this thread.

by Anonymousreply 11803/12/2019

The op's friend could very well have thought they were saying the right thing. If you had leukemia or cancer or were alcoholic, you wouldn't assume your friend was well versed enough to offer the right answers or solutions to you malady. Depression is serious but you should be seeking the help of professionals. Offer your friend resources if they want to learn more about your situation.

by Anonymousreply 11903/12/2019

OP, my very first therapist said that very thing to me: “It could be worse!”.

I paid my $400, left and fell into a six month depression.

Later read he converted to Buddhism 5 years previous to our 2 diaasterous appointments.

by Anonymousreply 12003/12/2019

There is no benefit in supporting a depressed person to stay depressed. The best help a depressed person can ask for is someone who guides him or her to a slightly less despressed state step by step until the depressed person can do that on his or her own. The tricky part is for the depressed person to actually want to make the effort to leave the depressed state at all.

Just look at the all the defensive comments where depressed people argue in favor of remaining depressed and their outrage about being depression-shamed (including OP suffering by the apparently brutal and insensitive comment of his friend).

by Anonymousreply 12103/13/2019

[quote]I shared my struggles with bipolar depression

Oh, fuck off.

by Anonymousreply 12203/13/2019

No one says "bipolar depression" except big pharma. You have depression from your BIPOLAR DISORDER. You're a fucking Mary! who needs to get over herself. Get on meds and get the fuck over it.

by Anonymousreply 12303/13/2019

Sorry if this makes people get so outraged that their heads will explode, but chemical imbalance is a marketing scam to sell people drugs. Our bodies are perfect machines that need proper fuel not the chemical shit the fast food industry or the pharma industry sells to make us depend on them for the rest of our lives.

Pharma drugs may be a valid option for a short period of time when you are at your lowest, but the goal should never ever be to keep taking these drugs to manage a so called permanent condition, because chemical imbalance! Even shrinks sometimes prefer to just deal with the symptoms instead of guiding the patient to face his core issue, because that means more money from a regular patient.

by Anonymousreply 12403/13/2019

My 43 year old friend had an accident last week, which led a carotid dissections, which led a massive stroke. The doctors removed a portion of his skull last week to relieve the pressure on his brain. He is paralyzed on his left side.

So, OP, some people have it much worse than you do. You’ve still got your skull intact and I’m sure you can move both the sides of your body.

by Anonymousreply 12503/13/2019

Ok who is arguing in favor of staying depressed?

I've read this thread and not one person said this. So where do you see it even implied?

by Anonymousreply 12603/13/2019

Ok who is arguing in favor of staying depressed?

[quote] I felt much worse after this conversation: not only was I depressed, but I also felt like a horrible person for not sucking it up.

by Anonymousreply 12703/13/2019

[quote]Sorry if this makes people get so outraged that their heads will explode, but chemical imbalance is a marketing scam to sell people drugs. Our bodies are perfect machines that need proper fuel not the chemical shit the fast food industry or the pharma industry sells to make us depend on them for the rest of our lives.

Riiiiiiiiight, Tammy Cruise.

by Anonymousreply 12803/13/2019

r124 = Xenu

by Anonymousreply 12903/13/2019

Ok who is arguing in favor of staying depressed?

[quote] People (ppl) who have never experienced true depression or dealt with a family member struggling with it have no idea what it's like.

[quote] Depression is the same: you can't will it away. Another problem is that a deeply depressed individual is reluctant to seek help because they don't want to get better, they want to die. Suicide seems like the solution to all your problems.

by Anonymousreply 13003/13/2019

Ok who is arguing in favor of staying depressed?

[quote] The next time a person tells you to suck it up, tell them, my advice to you is that you should be aware and grateful everyday of your life that you do not know what this feels like. Then don't talk to them about it again because they will never understand.

by Anonymousreply 13103/13/2019

OP, I agree that your anger at your friend is bizarre. What else was he supposed to say?

by Anonymousreply 13203/13/2019

Ok who is arguing in favor of staying depressed?

[quote] OP, my very first therapist said that very thing to me: “It could be worse!”.

[quote] I paid my $400, left and fell into a six month depression.

Just to be clear: This poster claims that "It could be worse" pushed him into a six month depression which was apparently way better than take comfort in "It could be worse".

by Anonymousreply 13303/13/2019

'Sorry if this makes people get so outraged that their heads will explode, but chemical imbalance is a marketing scam to sell people drugs. Our bodies are perfect machines that need proper fuel not the chemical shit the fast food industry or the pharma industry sells to make us depend on them for the rest of our lives.'

While I feel you are correct in say that the pharma industry wants to sell us drugs in any way possible you fail to realize chemical imbalances in the brain are a very real thing and sometimes even remain for one's entire life. Our bodies are in no way perfect machines. Sometimes they can heal themselves and sometimes they can't. People can develop a disease which they've done nothing to cause and it overtakes them and they cannot be helped or sometimes they can survive but need constant monitoring. People develop diabetes, heart disease, cancer and they can keep it in check or they can't. You can have only a certain amount of control over your mind and body but beyond a certain point they are very much their own beings apart from your will or desires. We like to tell ourselves anything can be solved or cured because it is comforting like religion but that simply is not the case. Choice itself relies on luck in terms of did you make the right decision or if you even have a choice at all.

We must all surely know of previous generations of people in our families or those of friends who before there was such a thing as the pharmaceutical industry greedy for profits who had nervous breakdowns, suffered from debilitating depression or schizophrenia and lived tortured lives or committed suicide.

by Anonymousreply 13403/13/2019

Before Big Pharma ran amok, I think shrinks prescribed drugs that might get their patients to a point where they could participate in their own therapy. I don't think the intent was that the drugs act as a cure.

by Anonymousreply 13503/13/2019

I am sorry r134, but generally speaking I disagree, because people argue for their own limitations. They believe they are not worthy of a lot of things.

- Members of my family have this sickness and I will not rest until I can prove that I have it as well.

- I can't deal with the life I am told / forced to live so I just blame my stupid brain for not going along with what others want me to be and declare myself chemically imbalanced.

- I don't want to face my inner demons. Never ever. I rather distract myself and hide from the world. People should thank me for making this big sacrifice!

by Anonymousreply 13603/13/2019

I'm not saying this is not true R136 but the whole subject of mental illness is so complex you can't say it's simply a matter of time, working things through and being willing to help yourself. Do people use it as a crutch to justify self pity? Yes. But there are many who don't and it's unfair not to acknowledge this.

by Anonymousreply 13703/13/2019

[quote] Do people use it as a crutch to justify self pity? Yes. But there are many who don't and it's unfair not to acknowledge this.

And can you honestly see those visiting Datalounge? You really think there are any genuinely depressed DLers who don't use self pity as a crutch on DL?

by Anonymousreply 13803/13/2019

r134, do you think OP doesn't use self pity as a crutch?

by Anonymousreply 13903/13/2019

As cruel and terrible as it may sound to those who are depressed "it could get worse" is an outsider's attempt to uplift and guide you away from your depression. It's an attempt to give depressed people a chance to disconnect, for a moment, from their focus on their depressed state and wonder if they have access to something that may feel a bit better and move, on an emotional level, further in that better feeling direction.

by Anonymousreply 14003/13/2019

I'm not talking about the OP. I'm speaking generally. And I don't know about him or her. Maybe this person is a drama queen or maybe they are genuinely depressed and were upset their friend wasn't more sympathetic and needed to vent anonymously. They seemed to have disappeared so maybe you are right. They didn't get the responses they wanted to hear and left. I'm just saying mental illness is a very real thing and sometimes it cannot be cured like other diseases that can't be cured no matter what you do.

by Anonymousreply 14103/13/2019

[quote] I'm just saying mental illness is a very real thing and sometimes it cannot be cured like other diseases that can't be cured no matter what you do.

And that's what gives this disease so much power. Statements like "it cannot be cured!". Way too many people give up and just hope to manage their disease or condition with longterm pharmaceutical drug use. They don't believe in themselves and trust in "it cannot be cured!".

by Anonymousreply 14203/13/2019

I used the word 'sometimes.' That's a very important distinction. But you seem to have a very old fashioned attitude towards depression of buck up and take it as a man. Or medication is only for the short term and if you don't eventually get off of it you're just full of self pity and don't want to help yourself.

Not true. My grandmother who grew up in Italy in the early part of the 20th century probably didn't even know what depression was yet suffered from it terribly. She took care of 5 children and a husband during the difficult years of the 30s and 40s. She took care of her family in a very narrow railroad flat where two families shared 1 bathroom. And can you imagine raising 5 girls with all their clothes and underwear, the constant unending shopping cooking and cleaning for 6 people other than herself with no help from anyone or anything? And though she never shirked her responsibilities towards her family(she called her 5 daughters her 5 flowers) she was also prone to terrifying frightening violent bouts of hysteria that no one could control. And after her final daughter left she had a major nervous breakdown and had to go for shock treatments. It didn't help that her beloved mother died when she was a little girl and then the second mother whom she loved also died young and her brother killed himself after spending the war in a Russian concentration camp.

Life is very very hard and though I know you're talking about privileged people who are self indulgent all I'm saying is that it is not always the case and there are too many situations in life where there simply aren't any answers.

by Anonymousreply 14303/13/2019

r143, tough love is not for the faint hearted.

by Anonymousreply 14403/13/2019

Tough love my ass.

The only people who mete out tough love are parents.

Friends? No. Friends don’t meet out tough love or unconditional love. If friends don’t want to engage with their friends mental illness, fine, you have no obligation to, but don’t pretend you’re doing anything of value by telling them to turn that frown upside down.

by Anonymousreply 14503/13/2019

I thought it was my orgasm that's my responsibility.

by Anonymousreply 14603/13/2019

[quote] If friends don’t want to engage with their friends mental illness, fine, you have no obligation to, but don’t pretend you’re doing anything of value by telling them to turn that frown upside down.

Suck it up, buttercup. If you want to stay depressed, that's fine, but don't beg your friends, or total strangers, to validate your depression. And don't kid yourself: That's exactly what guys like OP are trying to pull. This "oh, but there are REAL cases out there who are truly depressed and these DL comments hurt them so very deeply! So PLEASE! If you don't want to validate guys like OP at least validate them and their genuine pain and misery!" BS is a new low for Datalounge.

by Anonymousreply 14703/13/2019

Respect (and compassion) is a two way street. Just because you are depressed doesn't entitle you to insist that others are assholes for not getting you and saying supposed asshole things like "it could be worse!".

High almighty comments like

[quote] If friends don’t want to engage with their friends mental illness, fine, you have no obligation to, but don’t pretend you’re doing anything of value by telling them to turn that frown upside down.

are the reason why a lot of DL posters don't show compassion for people who suffer from depression.

by Anonymousreply 14803/13/2019

"It's an attempt to give depressed people a chance to disconnect, for a moment, from their focus on their depressed state and wonder if they have access to something that may feel a bit better and move"

Okay, I've been struggling with depression my whole fucking life, and yes - this is what I try to do for myself. I'm constantly trying to boot my brain out of the morass of depressive thoughts and feelings that's lurking inside, because if I stay there I'm in deep shit. So if I'm feeling horribly depressed I do my damdest to do something, ANYTHING, other than stay home and feel sorry for myself. Work, exercise, a hobby, even a fucking walk in the park, just watching a comedy and laughing a little if I can't get myself out of the house. It's not a cure, it's just a way to stay functioning.

So yes, OP, if people are trying to get you to think about ANYTHING other than how miserable you feel, it's because getting your mind on something other than your own misery can help. If, of course, you aren't too far gone into the morass, or you have the capability to think of something other than yourself.

by Anonymousreply 14903/13/2019

I heard of mental health professionals saying the same kinds of things to their clients during a therapy session We are having a lack of empathy pandemic. Also, I think Mental health is basically lawless, wild west type of field with a ton of posers.

I am sorry OP. Try support groups, a lot are on line. I do hope you find the care and support that your deserve.

by Anonymousreply 15003/13/2019

[quote]Yes, there might be a little brain chemistry stuff going on, but it’s easily controlled by meds.

Oh, my sides!

by Anonymousreply 151Last Sunday at 12:20 PM

The worst thing you can do to someone is to say that it's ok for that someone to have no power on his own, because he's chemically imbalanced which will never ever go away and therefore needs medication to even function on a basic level. That's like saying to that person "kill yourself now, because you are a worthless piece of shit who will never ever do anything of interest!". You think depressed people really want to feel like shit?

by Anonymousreply 152Last Sunday at 10:07 PM
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