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What's the best way to tell a person that someone they trust is a habitual liar?

If you ran a very small business in which you only had one full-time employee & that person was the one who did 95% of the interactions with all your customers & had been working for you for years & a dispute arose between this employee & a client & the client confronted you with evidence of the employee having been a major fuckup & troublemaker & pathological liar, what would be the least jarring way for that client to share that information with you?

by Anonymousreply 44December 13, 2018 2:50 AM

Certainly not in written form with a run-on sentence like that one you just wrote.

by Anonymousreply 1December 11, 2018 7:47 PM

0/10......mind your own business....youre obviously the client and looking to start shit....did they refuse to suck your dick ? If they have 1 employee...and had that employee for years, then the owner will obviously side with the employee unless you have solid proof of something like embezzling.

by Anonymousreply 2December 11, 2018 7:48 PM

the business sounds small enough to FAIL anyway

by Anonymousreply 3December 11, 2018 7:52 PM

Ok, these are not helpful answers. The in/actions of this employee and her lies about what she did and didn't do have majorly fucked up my life and my relationship with the business owner, whose work is not easily replaceable. I have previously accused someone else of lying and ended a professional relationship with them because of this employee's lies and failures to do her job, which she convinced me were the other person's fault. And now my word is the one being taken into question. There are numerous witnesses (aggravated participants) in the most recent fiasco she created, but it is legally complicated to get documents illustrating the months long nightmare she brewed up. I have my phone records. I have at least one person involved willing to make a statement on the record. And then there's the person who warned me about her, who I didn't want to believe at the time and to whom I owe an apology.

by Anonymousreply 4December 11, 2018 7:58 PM

Wow, co-dependent middle-school girl businesses. Tell the business owner the employee kissed her boyfriend under the bleachers.

by Anonymousreply 5December 11, 2018 8:03 PM

I think I would tell them that you are considering what your options will be in suing or something this person and the proof that you have of their lies and damage they have done. Unless this boss is really unobservant I would imagine that it would be hard for them not to know or at least suspect that their employee is a liar. If this will not do something for your benefit, besides making you feel better that you told on her, I would just walk away and forget it.

by Anonymousreply 6December 11, 2018 8:06 PM

r5, it's Napoleonic desk-jockey lording over their one square inch of blue sky bullshit. And she may be a sociopath because the quantity of lies is just stunning. There was another employee there for a while, who was very nice and there was weird tension between the two of them that I noticed. The nice one left very abruptly and I think I know why now.

by Anonymousreply 7December 11, 2018 8:06 PM

Do you think it would be effective for me to record a call (one party notification state) I make to apologize to the guy I ended a professional relationship with because of the employee's lies? She disrupted that situation for *years*. And, in addition to feeling bad about having misjudged this guy because I allowed myself to be misled, I feel the resulting conversation with him would illustrate and illuminate the truth about this employee in a very simple way. However, it seems kind of icky to record an apology. And I don't know how I would react to getting a text message with an audio recording like that attached.

by Anonymousreply 8December 11, 2018 8:16 PM

Take your meds as prescribed, OP.

by Anonymousreply 9December 11, 2018 8:16 PM

Seriously? The bitchy responses are supposed to be funny. If you don't have the wit for that, don't bother trying, you'll just hurt yourself. And we used to have posters who actually gave good advice. I guess they're all dead.

by Anonymousreply 10December 11, 2018 8:19 PM

If the employee is a problem, she'll have had other run-ins with other clients, not just you. And yet, she's still employed. That tells you everything you need to know: no matter what, the owner has her back. Not yours. Not any former clients.

Accept it and move on.

by Anonymousreply 11December 11, 2018 9:10 PM

r11, I may agree with you. But access to the owner is basically impossible without going through the employee, who would never pass along complaints about herself. And there is a real financial and social exclusivity buffering any engagement with the business. There is, also, a years long waiting list before (most people, I skipped the queue because of a connection) anyone is dealt with. So, I think it likely that there would hesitance on the part of most people, who gained entry and waited for it and paid for it, to make the effort to circumnavigate the only official point of contact for the business to complain about that point of contact.

by Anonymousreply 12December 11, 2018 9:23 PM

There are very few businesses for which there are no substitutes. While the collective input of the might DL might provide some guidance, you really cannot make a decision about your own next steps without considering the ramifications and possible outcomes - of which we cannot know without having a clearer sense of both your business and theirs.

You need to decide what your goal and priorities are. You are making a very misguided and likely incorrect assumption that by somehow proving to someone that the single, long-term and obviously highly valued and trusted employee would be what - fired? Reprimanded?

If there is only one employee, whatever service this business performs cannot continue to function without him. Therefore, whatever business you have will suffer, in turn. So, "proving" whatever it is you think you'll prove will not result in continued business.

Frankly, based on the lack of business acumen illustrated by this question AND the previous behavior with your previous professional relationship, I sincerely doubt that the situation is as one-sided as you seem to believe.

by Anonymousreply 13December 11, 2018 9:38 PM

Sounds like there’s more to this. I believe OP, but I suspect the liar is worse than depicted.

by Anonymousreply 14December 11, 2018 9:45 PM

Get a lawyer to address your tort. Meanwhile, find another "business" for the service you need.

What the hell kind of "business" has 2 people.

What the hell is this actual situation.

by Anonymousreply 15December 11, 2018 9:52 PM

r13, the problem is entirely one-sided. She is the only squeaky wheel. Two other entities who were involved in the most recent scenario reached out to her *countless* times for response to a very simple common procedural step. I reached out repeatedly. I conferred with these two other parties, repeatedly. Despite the turn around usually being 4 days, from October 18th through December 3rd she (refused?) failed to send two necessary documents, upon request, that would allow any of us to move on with the project. Technically, the situation is still unresolved because she still hasn't sent official confirmation of having done what was required so that processing can complete. She repeatedly lied to me about having already sent these documents or that she would do so as soon as we got off the phone. She has lied to her boss, claiming that everything was handled "in a timely manner" and that I'm fabricating the situation. This is exactly what she did with the person I severed ties with over it. It's not that she doesn't know how to do it and has no one to ask; she just seems to take some twisted joy from fucking with people. I have no idea what else she's lied about, but I doubt it stops there. And, frankly, if I was the business owner, I'd both want to know what she's been up to and I would then immediately be checking my financials.

by Anonymousreply 16December 11, 2018 9:53 PM

Cut your ties with the business, and inform the business owner, listing the specifics. If they choose to believe the employee, there's nothing you can do and will only hurt you financially to have anything further to do with them.

If this will result in your losing money or if it will affect your business adversely, get legal advice before acting.

by Anonymousreply 17December 11, 2018 10:01 PM

re: the number of employees. Like I said, it's a small business. They don't really need more people, they just need different people. The owner does the actual work and the liar handles all the office stuff. As mentioned, there was a part time person who left abruptly. There is now another part time person, whose responsibilities are unclear to me and who is there much less than the previous part-time person. There was like an intern or something for a few months and she's gone and I was never introduced to her as someone to interact with about anything anyway. And rarely I've noticed a little old lady hidden behind a shelving unit in the corner of the office who I believe is the owner's mother and doing book-keeping. That's it, other than the Fed-Ex guy who is somehow always there. I get the vibe that the liar is basically considered a part of the owner's extended family, at this point.

by Anonymousreply 18December 11, 2018 10:01 PM

You know far to much about this business, OP. We are all going to stop paying attention to you, unless you spill real details. Such as what kind of business this is, and how your life has been ruined.

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by Anonymousreply 19December 11, 2018 10:04 PM

I don't know, I blame the little old lady bookkeeper, though Fed-Ex guy sounds a bit suspect too, lurking around like that.

OP, anyone with a business brain or sense of self-preservation would not keep doing business with someone who refuses to have any oversight over crucial aspects of his own business, and who is, indirectly, destroying your credit and costing you time and money. I am not blaming you, it is just that you are making a drama about something that should be straightforward. Get legal advice.

by Anonymousreply 20December 11, 2018 10:17 PM

Let me know when you know. I’m trying to figure out how to bust two people I thought were allies and turned out to be lying shits.

by Anonymousreply 21December 11, 2018 10:20 PM

OP, what do you mean there is a "real financial and social exclusivity buffering any engagement with the business"?

by Anonymousreply 22December 11, 2018 10:26 PM

OP, which one is you?

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by Anonymousreply 23December 11, 2018 10:29 PM

I did what I feel was a very thorough search and met with 27 or 28 other people who do what the business owner does and this was the only one out of all of those who has the specific experience and capabilities that are necessary for what I need done. This is a mid-size city and not somewhere the best and brightest move to start their careers after graduation. Outsourcing to someone non-local would create a different barrel of problems and cost a good deal more money and slow every project down. All to say, I don't believe that there actually is a substitute for this business to which I have any useful access.

[quote] OP, what do you mean there is a "real financial and social exclusivity buffering any engagement with the business"?

They are not advertised. There is a fairly steep yearly fee, which I'm not aware of any of their "competitors" charging. And there's a years long waitlist of customers/clients that anyone who wants to do business with them has to start at the end of. I was (arguably, at this point) fortunate in making contact with someone else in a tangentially related field who mentioned that this business owner existed and offered to make a call for me.

by Anonymousreply 24December 11, 2018 10:53 PM

r23, I think I'm Mr. Persnickety, but I think my pickle should be wearing a bolo tie and a monocle.

by Anonymousreply 25December 11, 2018 10:54 PM

r20, my consideration has been reporting the office snake to an oversight board. However, I don't really want to do that without giving the owner a chance to make things right because it's basically an act of war that one can't walk back.

And, r13, yeah, I don't really see any other plausible solution other than either her being fired or my ceasing to do business with these people, which would put me in a very difficult place and punish me for the viper's misdeeds. It's not like she can be trusted to fess up and promise to do things right from now on. And once I make overt accusations, there will be no way to conduct any further transactions with her answering the phone.

I realized that I do have the cell number for the new part-time person. I don't know if appealing to her for info or insight or even backup about the situation would be helpful or not. I assume that she has to have seen some of the fuckery that the liar gets up to, but I don't know for sure and I don't know if she would compromise her position to tell me anything. I wish I had a way to contact the one who left so suddenly. So, yeah, it's fucked up.

Could I just let it all go and keep dealing with this woman lying and every couple of months causing another aggravating completely unnecessary delay? Honestly, no, at this point, I am out of patience and smell blood.

by Anonymousreply 26December 11, 2018 11:08 PM

I'm getting a feeling we have heard similar traumas from OP in the past. There's a tone and lexis and style. I can't put my finger on what the previous thread was, or about. Anyone?

by Anonymousreply 27December 11, 2018 11:11 PM

r27, I posted about the murderous cunts at the nursing home who stole my father's credit cards and put his phone on airplane mode as they waited until he had ICU level pneumonia to admit him to the hospital, where he died ten days later. Is that what you remember? I couldn't even have him cremated because according to the social security office he wasn't dead because they'd sold his ss#.

by Anonymousreply 28December 11, 2018 11:18 PM

r27, you sound like you're the type of creep who reads these kinds of threads, not to be helpful or even out of boredom, but to get fresh ideas of how to fuck with people.

by Anonymousreply 29December 11, 2018 11:21 PM

OP, you sound exhausting and I am sure the business owner won't mind if he loses your business. However for your own peace of mind, Call him directly (or of the lying employee blocks your access) send a certified registered letter requiring his signature and no other representative outlining your issues.

by Anonymousreply 30December 11, 2018 11:21 PM

r30, you sound like the type of desk jockey who lies about making phone calls.

by Anonymousreply 31December 11, 2018 11:24 PM

OP, you've been in this situation before? You sound like a drama queen. Either it's serious enough to consult an attorney and you do that, or you get a proper hobby.

by Anonymousreply 32December 11, 2018 11:25 PM
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by Anonymousreply 33December 11, 2018 11:30 PM
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by Anonymousreply 34December 11, 2018 11:33 PM

r32, no, I've never been in this situation before with anyone else. This office bitch, let's call her "Brenda" because her name is "Brenda", has been repeatedly lying about doing her job for as long as I've been in transaction with this business. A third party involved in some of the early transactions told me she was lying and the source of all the fuck ups and I didn't believe him. Because it was really inconvenient to believe him. And it turns out that he was telling the truth. She is a habitual liar who seemingly wrenches projects for shits and giggles. And after a huge problem that Brenda created through consistent non-response for document requests from mid-October through early December, she has now convinced her boss that I am lying about anything not having been done in a timely way, about there having a been a problem at all and whatever else. What she failed to do should have taken her tops 15 minutes combined.

by Anonymousreply 35December 11, 2018 11:44 PM

Seriously, if these responses are not evidence of the frau invasion here, I don't know what is. You "what a drama queen" cunts all sound like fucking office jockeys who unwork your jobs. Do any of you take accountability for your actions or pride in your work? Or yourselves, for that matter? Is 'everybody else is an amoral scumbag so I'll be one too' the new norm?

by Anonymousreply 36December 11, 2018 11:50 PM

r32-34, you're already on my block list so I don't know what you're saying and probably don't care.

by Anonymousreply 37December 11, 2018 11:55 PM

First OP had a life shattering problem with Brenda. We laughed. Now, OP's problem is with us. Next.....?

by Anonymousreply 38December 12, 2018 12:02 AM

Are you sure "Brenda" isn't Barbara?

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by Anonymousreply 39December 12, 2018 12:03 AM

So, once again, I get nothing but shit on when I reach out for help. I guess my lesson here is that everyone is awful, no one care, don't point out when people are behaving unethically because everyone else is unethical too, and I should stop expecting to be treated like a human being. Got it. Awesome.

by Anonymousreply 40December 12, 2018 4:25 AM

Kick her hard in the cunt bone.

by Anonymousreply 41December 12, 2018 4:50 AM

OP got issues

by Anonymousreply 42December 12, 2018 8:42 PM

[quote]So, once again, I get nothing but shit on when I reach out for help. I guess my lesson here is that everyone is awful, no one care, don't point out when people are behaving unethically because everyone else is unethical too, and I should stop expecting to be treated like a human being. Got it. Awesome.

No, OP.

If you objectively review your responses as this thread progresses, they become more unhinged and intent on simply being right, as opposed to careful consideration of key points raised. While it can be cathartic to vent, you simply don't provide sufficient detail - as several people, including me, have pointed out - to provide any more meaningful input. You simply say that won't work.

What you do continue to state ad nauseam is that the other person is a liar and justify your position in vague terms without taking any responsibility for any misunderstanding.

Did you ever simply so something as simple as write an email after a conversation with this person saying:

"Just to confirm our conversation earlier today. You indicated XXX would be sent on such and such day. If this is incorrect, let me know."

Or did it ever occur to you to copy correspondence between you and your own clients or whomever (your story is oddly vague about other parties involved).

"Mary, I just want to confirm X. I've copied John so that we're all on the same page. If this isn't correct, let us know so we can adjust our plans."

What your erratic behavior does suggest is there is sufficient ambiguity about your perceptions of the situation. We have no details, other than your word, that this other person is a liar. Meanwhile, the wider facts of the situation, suggest that the business is in high demand - and may cater to somewhat unreasonable people - that long-term erratic behavior by this employee would result in significant repercussions that couldn't be ignored by the owner for long.

Just a few thoughts to consider.

by Anonymousreply 43December 13, 2018 2:31 AM

Op

You can do the recording but then transcribe it and scrub identifying details, unless your client would be able to figure out the identity of the other person because of the small community.

Getting several people to go on record, even anonymously, before you speak to the owner would be helpful as well.

Don’t go in like a cowboy.

Go in with your concerns, ask leading questions, and let your client fill in details of any concerns on her part before you tell her what you know about the employee.

If the client is immediately defensive, a folder with documentation and an offer for a follow up meeting after they reviewed the (hopefully thoroughly unimpeachable) files, then a hasty exit, might work better.

If the client has time to review these allegations without the pressure of your presence, she will be more likely to be open minded.

Sounds like a very dicey situation please keep us informed. I love threads like this!

by Anonymousreply 44December 13, 2018 2:50 AM
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