Theresa May is a failure

May is a failure.

Corbyn would be a disaster.

Corbyn would be much worse.

They're both losers, and the Liberal Democrats have completely collapsed. What happened to British politics? Scotland seems to have its act together, but the rest of the country can't find a politician with any sense of direction.

She's an embarrassment. I can't believe she waited until the day before the vote to cancel it.

I agree that Corbyn would be a better prime minister... but that's not saying much. I cannot understand what's going on in Corbyn's head. He doesn't seem to have any real interest in becoming PM, but he's also resisted all the pressure to step down. It's bizarre. Yvette Cooper or Emily Thornberry would make much better Labour leaders. I think part of the reason May and the Tories have allowed Brexit to spiral out of control to this extent is that they know they face no effective opposition.

Corbyn is pro-Brexit so would be even worse than May.

I feel truly bad for the people of the UK. Your choices are May or Corbyn. Dreadful

There's no way anyone can fix the situation other than to. It go through with Brexit. The UK is fucked - the EU isn't going to make it better for them after they leave, otherwise why would anyone stay in? Any Brexit is going to make the UK worse off than it is today.

Corbyn also seems Russian-compromised, and is promising a lot of the same stuff that can't be done. Someone has to fall on their sword and May was put in place to do just that.

I read somewhere that she cut the benefits of the needy to give $ to the rich, not sure if that is correct but it was on the internet and you can't really trust the internet.

Trade a "failure" for an unrepentant bigot and lunatic. The Brit way.

British politics is a mess right now. Both the Tories and Labour are dealing with inner turmoil over Brexit and frankly I do think it would matter who the PM was. I actually prefer May to Crobyn though. Corbyn's response after the Russian chemical attack makes me agree with R7 that he's likely Russian-compromised. Also he's an anti-Semite.

Nicola S needs to come down from Scotland and whip them into shape.

The most absurd thing is May KNOWS Brexit is idiotic. She was a remainer! What is she trying to prove by ramming a shit Brexit through?

[quote]Jeremy Corbyn should be the next prime minister of the United Kingdom.

Better the devil you know OP. As the rest of the thread has stated, Corbyn would a catastrophe.

R12 She's attempting to fulfill the will of the British people who voted to leave in 2016. Her deal, although not great, actually does give many people who voted to leave what they wanted (end of free movement, the ability to strike trade deals with other countries) but keeps the UK closely aligned with the EU to avoid economic disaster. I find it hysterically funny that it is the hardliner Brexiteers who will end up stopping Brexit because they want to leave with no deal which will not happen.

Corbyn is a communist, an idiot & an anti semite & he surrounds himself with the same. Like that dumb cunt, Diane Abbott.

May needs to get sacked. Put Johnson, Rees Mogg or even Farage in charge of a HARD Brexit.

The UK should then join the new NAFTA & cut bilateral trade deals with China, Japan, S Korea, Brazil, etc.

And someone in London should go to Brussels & punch Juncker right in his smug face. What a cunt.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

r15 pretty much none of your recommendations are good ones. In fact, they are all horrible.

oy vey

No one can handle being PM at this time. The Brexit crap is another Russian nation killer, and the UK is in the same boat as is the USA, with different lunatics.

R17 Jean Claude, shut up & go back to Brussels.

It really didn't matter who was PM during the Brexit talks they were always going to be a lamb led to the slaughter. That being said, May has made some terrible blunders. 1) She triggered article 50 before the government had a clear negotiation position. 2) She called an snap election in which she should have led the Tories to their biggest win since the Thatcher era (given where Labour was in the polls) and yet her terrible performance resulted in her losing the Conservative's majority.

Fuck off you tragic right wing cunt R20

Her voice and diction are extremely irritating.

R21 that snap election debacle WAS pretty funny. Either way though, anyone in that role is damned from the start.

I do love the Theresa May character on The Windsors though. Her "Friends?! I wouldn't give you the steam off my piss." line still cracks me up. She was a great foil to Camilla.

Theresa May has created a deal that I, a fellow remainer, can just about tolerate. It's neither hard enough for most brexiteers or soft enough for most remainers. She's in a lose-lose situation but I'd still rather she was managing it than that twat Corbyn.

It's not going to make any difference in the short-term, though. I suspect the deal is going to get rejected and that's why it was postponed.

R22 is Diane Abbott

R26 Is a hateful, Brexit-loving ,right wing piece of shit who regrets Paul Dacre left the Daily Mail and now considers it as liberal propaganda , in other words a 1950's uptight Tory cunt.

The sooner Corbyn becomes Prime Minister the better. More funding for the NHS, the currently disastrous train services saved by bringing it back under public ownership, a PM with a life-long record of supporting LGBT rights, an end to the right-wing media's stranglehold on British politics, more council homes, a revolutionary change to education in the form of apprenticeships, an end to grammar schools, huge refunding of comprehensives, more police on the streets, etc. Yeah, what a disaster...

Public utilities actually being owned by the public again so the profits directly benefit us and the services in question? The horror!

BREAKING: Tory MPs now the 48 letters needed to begin a leadership challenge. May is toast.

Corbyn is a vile Jew baiting Putin sympathiser. The one country he championed for years as being a socialist utopia is Venezuela, but he’s silent now it’s all gone to shit and 20% of its population have left.

May is and always has been a 3rd rater, just like the Johnsons and Moggs so worshiped by the likes of R15. Brexit was the wet dream of old, immigrant-hating reactionaries and younger thugs ( the Tommy Robinson, Islam obsessed fan type ) living on Poppy Day fantasies of King and Empire . To be Prime Minister now is truly a poisoned chalice that none of the shouty sideline shits ( again Mogg/Johnson etc) wanted to sup from personally even after pushing us into this ludicrous position, hence we ended up with hapless May. Britain is fucked, there is no deal better than what we have had all along, we had it good, but swivel eyed nutters like R15 can't wait for rationing and more hardship ('we won the war!!!') which it looks like they , and the unfortunate rest of us , will get. It seems we voted to be poorer and have less influence in the world, but moron R15 et al see a bright, buccaneering, Trumpesque future of who dares wins deals with bent bananas for everyone ...so fucking stupid.

Corbyn is rubbish also R31, but that doesn't add any lustre to the turd that is the present UK govt.

Right wing governments the world over sell actual bombs to homophobic regimes like Saudi Arabia, but apparently "sympathizing" with socialists is a vile crime.

Quit complaining. She’s a fucking genius compared to what the US has.

We feel real sorry for you guys (reaching for tiny violin)

And I thought 1992 was the definitive annus horribilis.

Boris Johnson will make a surprisingly great PM. He will take bold steps, just leave the EU without a deal, and tell the Brits to suck it up.

But one is still here!

[quote]Boris Johnson will make a surprisingly great PM

He's had several cabinet jobs and fucked them all up beyond belief, so I wouldn't hold your breath, love.

Wow I had no idea there were Brit Deplorables on here.

[quote]Wow I had no idea there were Brit Deplorables on here.

We just call them "Tories" over here.

Whitehall on fire!

Roight, well we go n dunnit now, di'int we?

R43 What accent is that supposed to be? It's no recognisable dialect I've ever heard.

I think Dick Van Dyke used it on Mary Poppins, R44.

^^ Either Geordie or Yorkshire

I'm not even sure it's supposed to be an English dialect.

Yes please elect Boris Johnson. Then you can have your own T Rump -white blond edition

Of course, the true Brexit accent is plummy posh.

Even though Theresa May has led a catastrophic government she's still polling way ahead Corbyn in the Best Prime Minister polls, although Don't Know or Refuse To Answer are neck and neck with her.

For all the focus on Corbyn's associations with terrorist organisations during last year's elections, older people who remember the IRA and can remember the Brighton Bomb in particular. Thatcher escaped, 1 MP murdered amongst 6 dead - Corbyn invited the IRA to the House of Commons weeks after.

It may not bother younger people but the handling of the Salisbury poisoning this year really did cut through, May was as cold hearted and dispassionate as you'd expect whereas Corbyn initially suggested giving Russia a sample of the nerve agent so they could test it, and Putin fan boy Milne was briefing the media that you couldn't trust British intelligence after Iraq. And it turned out that it was Russia all along. Remember Corbyn blamed Russia's invasion of Ukraine on the EU and NATO, for provoking poor Putin into annexing Crimea.

I want the Tories out as soon as possible but Corbyn is a bigger threat, to the UK and to Europe.

I would like David Lammy to become leader but I also like Yvette Cooper. Both sensible and seemingly decent people.

The fact that Corbyn is less popular than May, who is a dumpster fire of a PM should tell you all you need to know.

I am the Earth Mother and she is a FLOP!

Merkel has a fat ass in that youtube above.

After calling a stupid referendum, Cameron was a wuss and left all of the shit for May. She tried her best but couldn't get a good deal for Britain. Corbyn is a fucking walking disaster.

b-but... the blue passportses?

Corbyn? The bastard cannot even look directly at a tv camera. He has always been anti-EU and cannot wait to get out. Already he has purged the Laabor party of anyone who would not follow his brand of socialism. No dissent permitted.

Shifty, lying, militant lefty, a Trotskyite at heart.

Bastards like him brought Britain to its knees in the 1960 and 70s.

NO FUCKING WAY.

just hope she steals the mace on her way out the door. Then sets up her government in exile.

r55 there IS no good deal for the UK. It's going to be worse off out of the EU, and that's why anyone who claims they can get a better deal is lying. The only way to not have it be worse would be to cancel Brexit, but even then a lot of damage has already been done. It was a self-inflicted gunshot wound, and much of it was caused by Tory policy. They redirected the rage at their grifting to immigrants, the same way politicians have done for ages, and Russia helped amplify it.

That mace stealing was the most embarrassing thing I've seen in a long time.

R41 I guess thread like this brings the Tory gays out.

I think this Twitter thread sums up the whole mess nicely.

R61 I'm not entirely sure all the 'Tories' here are even British or live here. They'll mostly be right wing Americans whose only news sources are the Daily Mail and YouTube. They'll start on in a minute about how the entirety of London is a no-go area.

Can someone explain to me what kind of "deal" the EU and Norway have at the moment? Would Britain be better off with no Brexit deal than the deal now offered?

There's a lot of stupid people in the comment section on Daily Fail. They read an article about some guy in the UK giving the finger to the government and then respond and don't realize they're talking about the UK because they don't know the location names and don't bother to look them up, and bitch about the US government, but don't specify the US, however you can tell because of their location information (assuming it's accurate).

R64 Basically Norway is part of EEA and has unrestricted access to the single market and customs union however they have zero say in EU regulation. The problem with the Norway solution is that it means the UK would still have to allow Freedom of Movement, would have to abide by the decision of the European Courts, have no say at the table basically it would be staying in the EU but without the benefits of membership. The only plus about the Norway solution is the UK would have the freedom to make its own trade deals. A no deal scenario would tank the UK's economy for several years. IMO, May's deal is probably the only real solution if people still want Brexit.

[quote]Thatcher escaped

Shame, wasn't it?

Is there a third option?

No one else besides May and Corbyn?

[quote]Is there a third option?

Yes, the third option is to vote for party policy rather than treat an election as an episode of The X Factor.

No, R69 - There'd need to be a GE for Corbyn or whoever to take over. There could be a change of leadership in the Tory party but the Tory alternatives are so rabidly anti-EU they'd happily push for no deal which would be catastrophic for the UK. But they refuse to see it that way as it'd mean the end of Freedom of Movement, blue passports and the kind of national poverty that'd make wartime look like the happiest we've ever been.

R66 - thanks for the info.

It kills me to say it but unless we stay in - which I hope we do - May’s deal is probably the best we can get outside of full membership. Let’s hope another vote is called as I think the young ones who didn’t bother their backsides voting the first time might just turn out and change the outcome.

To be fair though she was a terrible Home Secretary so we knew what we were getting at the last election. Can't really blame her for fulfilling her political destiny.

if Corbyn is your worst option you're damn lucky GB!

Corbyn's age also goes against him, we haven't elected a Prime Minister who is much over 60 since Winston Churchill in 1951, until Theresa May they were getting progressively younger. Corbyn is almost 70.

Corbyn wouldn't do any of the things that are good if he was elected. He is feeding on people's dreams to make the Left ..."great again."

If he was elected, he would say the Tories spent all the money, so he can't do anything. The people would get poorer, and the and UK would continue to crumble. Then he would appoint a dozen loudmouth anti-Semites and regressive identify politics morons to prominent positions.

There is a rumour going around that there are 48 Tory MPs who have submitted letters to the 1922 Committee. If this is true, it means there will be a leadership challenge.

Vote for me. Maybe I'll make Meghan my running mate.

As far as who the next PM will be, bookmakers are giving the lowest odds to Corbyn, ahead of any of the leading Tory candidates. So, it seems more than likely that he will be. Good.

It'll be a leadership challenge of the Tory party. Corbyn has no chance to be voted in.

r81 No, the odds are on a vote of no confidence in the government which would then trigger a general election and then a Labour victory, which the bookmakers have concluded is the likeliest outcome.

I wonder if it's better for Cornyn to come in after the Tories handled the loser Brexit mess they created. Why take it on?

[quote]Corbyn is a vile Jew baiting Putin sympathiser.

Oh look:

[quote]Documents leaked to the Sunday Mail, appear to reveal how the Institute for Statecraft tried to promote tweets calling the Labour leader a “useful idiot” who helped the Kremlin cause, and attacked members of his staff.

[quote]“On the surface, the cryptically named Institute for Statecraft is a small charity operating from an old Victorian mill in Fife,” says the Daily Record, “but explosive leaked documents passed to the Sunday Mail reveal the organisation’s Integrity Initiative is funded with £2 million of Foreign Office cash and run by military intelligence specialists”.

R82 There is absolutely no way any betting shop in the UK is saying a GE would mean Corbyn would be PM. That's absolutely absurd.

r85

Grabs popcorn 🍿

R80 / R82 / R85

The reason Corbyn is currently favourite (has lower odds) as it's him vs any one of 10 or so potential successors to May.

When it comes to the next election, a hung parliament has the lowest odds, followed by a Tory government, then a Labour government.

And Paddy Power, Betfred and Ladbrokes are all showing exactly the same odds.

[quote]The reason Corbyn is currently favourite (has lower odds) as it's him vs any one of 10 or so potential successors to May.

No, it's not him vs anyone - it's him and 60+ other potential candidates, each evaluated using detailed information to determine the odds that produce the best result for the bookmaker. In other words, he has the lowest odds because he's the most likely to be the next PM according to their information.

So there are no other leaders that can steer the U.K. back on track?

Ditch Brexit and go on offense against the foreign attacks.

r91 Are you only interested in foreign affairs, then? You don't have any stake in the NHS, education system, prison system, police, military, taxes, the economy, poverty, immigration, utilities, the environment, etc?

[quote]So there are no other leaders that can steer the U.K. back on track?

Katie Price for PM! She's starting to look like Caitlyn

haha Labour does not have the clout to make Corbyn next PM. If there were a GE tomorrow there's no way the Tories wouldn't win as Labour has failed to do enough to sway the vote. And I'm in no way any fan of the Tories. There's absolutely no evidence of a major shift in public opinion from Tory to Labour - if there had been there'd have been calls for a GE long ago.

[quote]No, it's not him vs anyone - it's him and 60+ other potential candidates, each evaluated using detailed information to determine the odds that produce the best result for the bookmaker. In other words, he has the lowest odds because he's the most likely to be the next PM according to their information.

He's favourite as he's the only confirmed candidate.

To put it bluntly, a Labour or centre left party led by a moderate decent person without a toxic history of terrorism appeasement and a history of vile racism against Jews would be 10/20 points ahead in the polls, like the the party of Blair, Brown, Harman, Cook, Mowlam et al were 20 years ago.

But they're stuck with Corbyn and his army of cultists who are convinced he is the Messiah.

There's a difference between a (Tory) leadership challenge and a general election. In what world would a general election be called in the next few weeks? It's not going to happen.

Tomorrow might be her last day in 10.

[quote]He's favourite as he's the only confirmed candidate.

[quote]If there were a GE tomorrow there's no way the Tories wouldn't win as Labour has failed to do enough to sway the vote.

Do you think all the major bookmakers have just tossed a coin to determine odds upon which millions of pounds will be staked?

[quote]In what world would a general election be called in the next few weeks? It's not going to happen.

One where the government is falling apart and cannot run the country, so a vote of no confidence then precedes a GE?

I think had England won the World Cup, Brexit would be proceeding more smoothly. Jingoistim helps a lot.

R99 Please show me some evidence, that isn't from a betting site, that shows there has been enough change in opinion in the UK that a GE would lead to a Labour government.

I don't want another Tory government but I'm not too enamoured by Corbyn either. I've not seen any press that's suggested the electorate has suddenly had a shift to the Left, as much as I'd like to see that. Corbyn is hated by his own supporters ffs. I'd love to know who's been betting on him to be next PM.

[quote]Do you think all the major bookmakers have just tossed a coin to determine odds upon which millions of pounds will be staked?

No, they've made Corbyn the favourite to be next Prime Minister as he is the only confirmed candidate. When the Tory leadership election begins and the long list becomes a shortlist of 4 or 5 then the Tory candidates odds will shorten.

When it's a choice of Corbyn and the Tory leader/Prime Minister, the odds will depend on where the parties are in the polls.

She never was the brightest bulb, but I didn't care what happened after I left No. 10.

[quote]No, they've made Corbyn the favourite to be next Prime Minister as he is the only confirmed candidate.

None of them, including Corbyn, are confirmed candidates, as a GE hasn't been called yet. That has no bearing on the odds x

That's idiotic. If a Senate seat opens up in California and there only one GOP candidate declared but 10 democrats, is the republican favored to win? Obviously not

Jeremy Corbyn, Boris Johnson, Jason Rees-Mogg, Diane Abbott - an embarrassment of riches! (and I'd take any of them over Oranguzilla)

r105 Your analogy doesn't work because you're talking about an active contest, whereas here we don't currently have any genuine candidates, as no election has yet been called, so the odds are not like for like.

[quote]That's idiotic. If a Senate seat opens up in California and there only one GOP candidate declared but 10 democrats, is the republican favored to win? Obviously not

If the GOP and Democrats were neck and neck in the polls then the GOP candidate would HAVE THE LOWEST ODDS as there's a higher CERTAINTY of him (I'm guessing it's not a woman) to be elected over the 10 Democrat candidates.

As things stand, putting £10 on Corbyn to be next Prime Minister will win you £40. Boris Johnson will win you £50, Sajid Javid £60 and Dominic Raab £70. Not a huge difference considering.

A lot of people in this thread don't seem to have any understanding about how British government actually works.

r109 Or how it's currently not working...

A lot of people also don't know how setting betting odds work.

R108 They're not betting on something that's necessarily going to be voted on tomorrow. they're betting on the *idea* of who the next PM will be. They're not betting on a situation where there's just been a leadership contest or a vote of no confidence or any such shit.

It's people betting into the void in the hopes of making some money in the future. They're hardly suggesting the British people has suddenly decided Corbyn should be PM, cos that is most certainly not the case. Corbyn is mostly silent these days.

[quote]It's people betting into the void in the hopes of making some money in the future.

It's far more complex than that, but the likelihood of the outcome is the most important factor when determining odds. That's so obvious it barely needs to be said, I would have thought. Likelihood versus the size of the collective stake upon that outcome, etc.

If Corbyn becomes prime minister the EU should insist on Brexit. This loon is practically a Putin puppet and not only that, he is an antisemitic racist and radical Islamist sympathizer.

The EU has enough problems, they don't need this one.

[quote]Corbyn is mostly silent these days.

Er, no x

Exit Brexit!

R115 He's seen as such a joke I can't remember the last time I heard from him in the national media. Nothing he says is quote-worthy or memorable. Nothing he's said has challenged May or her government (because he's pro-Brexit).

Thank you for your polite 'x', but I'm not a tory and SHOULD be on Corbyn's side, but I just can't. He's beyond useless.

[quote]Corbyn is seen as such a joke I can't remember the last time I heard from him in the national media.

But... But his son is so cute!

[quote]Thank you for your polite 'x', but I'm not a tory and SHOULD be on Corbyn's side, but I just can't.

That's a real shame. I was hoping that kind of attitude ended after what happened in the 2016 US election ("I agree with Dem policies, but I just can't vote for HER!", etc)

Update:

[quote]That's a real shame. I was hoping that kind of attitude ended after what happened in the 2016 US election ("I agree with Dem policies, but I just can't vote for HER!", etc)

Except in that comparison, Corbyn is a curious hybrid of Trump & Jill Stein.

Comparisons with Sanders are simply because they're both pensioners who spent decades in politics without achieving anything significant.

R64 Norway has free movement of people. something the Brits don't want.

Norway scenario not remotely possible for them.

[quote]Except in that comparison, Corbyn is a curious hybrid of Trump

On what planet does Corbyn have any commonalities with Trump? Trump is a homophobic racist who cares only about prestige, money and the wellbeing of the wealthy and privileged. In other words, he's exactly like most Tories. You really do have to jump through some mental hoops to reach any other conclusion.

ONe is dealing with some of the most pig-ignorant Brits screaming for Brexit at any cost. Thing is, it means nothing to the leaders, as they are well-heeled. Small people will be in trouble. My cousin's husband took redundancy from Vauxhall some months back as the company will close due to Brexit.

The terrifying issue is the sheer ignorance re. Northern Ireland the the imminent danger that "The Troubles" will kick off again. Are the Brits looking to be bombed on mainland Britain again? It is crazy. Former PM John Major has called for Article 50 to be invoked which will bring the madness to a stop.

Comparisons with Corbyn & Trump

1. Both Putin supporters 2. Both protectionist by nature, blaming immigrants for reducing living standards 3. Both practice nepotism and give their kids jobs 4. Both unashamedly racist - Trump with muslims, Corbyn with Jews 5. Both frequently attack the media for justified criticism 6. Both promote the culture of "if you're not with me you're against me" 7. Both like marrying much younger foreign wives 8. Both happy to turn a blind eye to torture and human rights abuses when it suits them 9. Both happy to praise despots and dictators (see Corbyn's admiration of Iran) 10. Both cunts

Priti Patel, a former minister is a prime example of the ignorant lunatics running the UK. She seemed to think that Ireland needed UK food imports-we produce 4 times what we need- and suggested blocking food movement into Ireland. In effect, starve them and use that as leverage...

Priti needs to pull out a history book. She's non-white and the Brits starved India. Priti. if I were you I'd check uner my car before I got into it.

There are no responsible people in govt anymore.

Corbyn, Boris, Rees-Moog are phonies.

Priti Patel, one of the worst people in the House Of Commons. But I didn't see anyone jumping to her defence with "But she's a working class British Asian - leave her alone" like they did with Kate Osamor's disgusting behaviour recently.

And the Fiona Onasanya trial started yesterday. What a fucking liar. LOCK HER UP!

Tell us about Fiona and Kate Osamor

Brexit is chaos. May is trying to bring order to a chaos a) nobody wants to deal with and b) nobody wants to solve.

I am sure it was not her decision to step forward to manage this task, because it's clear as day that nobody will thank her whatever the outcome is going to be.

The UK is stuck with assholes like Corbyn right now, because nobody wants to step forward to pick up the pieces Brexit has created and will create in the future.

The Government knows that staying in the EU as full member is the best thing for the UK, but guys like Corbyn used Brexit as some red meat for his party's demographic. It was all posture and theatre. And it blew up in his party's face, because they didn't believe in Brexit themselves. It was just a hot button issue to look like they give a fuck about this hyped Muslim terrorist threat. Then Brexit won and they didn't know what to do, because they didn't expect Brexit to be approved by the majority of the UK citizens. They didn't have any plan to actually execute it in a way that they deliver what they promised. Again, they never thought they'd win.

I have no doubt Putin used UK's political theatrics against the UK government the same way he did with the US: Through his troll farms manipulating public opinion through social media. Establishing a narrative that made it easy to believe that Brexit won without any hacking or voter fraud. That it was the true will of the people. And that it should be respected as such.

The idea that Putin had any meaningful involvement in the Brexit referendum is nonsense.

Believe me, we're divided enough without Russian involvement. I don't really believe there was any meaningful Russian involvement in the US election either. It all seems far too convenient and conspiracy theory to me - and there seems to be a certain type of person who believes in it. The very type of person I cannot take seriously.

Im confused. UK is a big place. You mean to tell us that there are no good leaders in the entire country?

Surely someone can step up and cancel Brexit. There are so many other issues going ignored. UK is divided and in chaos, just like her enemies wanted. They wanted to bring the U.K. to its knees.

They are winning, the U.K. is losing.

[quote] Surely someone can step up and cancel Brexit.

Nobody wants to face the fallout from that. Because that would kill his or her political career after Brexit officially won. Nobody wants to fall on his or her sword to make Brexit go away that way.

Nobody wants the job. It is a poisoned chalice and will destroy the career of any politician who takes it on.

Fiona Onasanya. Even her own brother has ratted her out. A few years ago an MP and his wife were sent to prison for lying over who was driving when they were caught by a speed camera. He was driving, she took responsibility as it would mean a driving ban for him. Later on he had an affair, the wife got her revenge and they both ended up IN THE NICK.

[quote] The idea that Putin had any meaningful involvement in the Brexit referendum is nonsense.

Nice try, Boris.

haha that hard-hitting media outlet 'Peterborough Today'. It's so obvious where loons like you get your news sources as absolutely no-one in the UK is caring about that. We've got more important things to be getting on with.

Kate Osamor. Gets her 28 year old son a job in Parliament managing her social media. Son goes to a musical festival and gets caught with loads of drugs which he says are for his mates. A few days after the arrest she nominates her son to be a councillor, knowing all about it. When it comes to trial she writes to the judge as a character witness.

When the conviction was reported she said she didn't know anything about it. A young journalist did some digging and found out she lied, asked for a comment, she called the police, threw water over him, threatened to beat him up with a bat and accused him of stalking her. She resigned from Corbyn's front bench before she was sacked.

Keir Starmer would be a good leader but he doesn't have the charisma that people seem to expect from politicians. Emily Thornberry does have the charisma but I can't see Momentum supporting her.

[quote]haha that hard-hitting media outlet 'Peterborough Today'. It's so obvious where loons like you get your news sources as absolutely no-one in the UK is caring about that. We've got more important things to be getting on with.

"Peterborough Today" covered the story as she's the MP for Peterborough. You might think no one cares about an MP lying to the police but some of us in then UK would like to keep some of our standards.

Two stories from Peterborough Today. Both about black people. It's almost as if you might be trying to sow some kind of narrative.

[quote]Keir Starmer would be a good leader but he doesn't have the charisma that people seem to expect from politicians. Emily Thornberry does have the charisma but I can't see Momentum supporting her.

Emily Thornberry is so desperate to be the next Labour leader it's quite undignified. She's Boris Johnson in flat heels - both ridiculously pompous, self important, flippant, nowhere near as clever as they think they are. She's trying desperately to suck up to the Corbyn crown with attacks on Trump and Netanyahu and will never criticise Putin to a point where British studio audience just laughed at her when she said the UK would never respond to a Russian led incident without UN authorisation, which Russia would immediately veto.

She's the Hyacinth Bucket to Corbyn's Steptoe.

[quote]Two stories from Peterborough Today. Both about black people. It's almost as if you might be trying to sow some kind of narrative.

White politicians get investigated too when they break the law you know.

Give the people a fair vote now that they know the truth. That way it doesn’t fall on one politician. Let the people make the decision but without the foreign interference.

The U.K. has a to get its act together. The enemies are winning and there is zero pushback. As long as she’s tricked into fake divisions, she will not prosper.

Corbyn is an anti-Jew pro-terrorist pos. He should be in jail. He fucking loves Brexit, too.

And we also had the SHAKY LESBIAN HAND SYNDROME story from yesterday.

Fucking hell the UK really does have some shit awful politicians.

R143 that was five and a half years ago

R144 A second referendum or Peoples' Vote is never going to happen. The mechanics of arranging one are just too much.

The high court just said that it can happen. And it should.

The best way out of this embarrassing nightmare is to let the people vote it down.

No hacking the vote this time!!!

I don't think Boris can do a good job, he can't even comb his hair properly...

He's not the right shade of orange to be a REAL leader!

The UK will soon break up.

Within to 10 to 20 years at most, Ireland will reunite. Scotland will go, and in England, it's the people from the Home Counties that the government ever cares about because that's where the wealth is.

The slow dissolution of a once great country.

R153 Have you ever been to the UK? You don't sound like you have.

R14, Theresa May's deal does nothing for Leavers - but because of the backstop there's nothing you can do for Leavers. Her deal doesn't end freedom of movement. With her deal the entire UK stays within the customs union with all that entails - except the UK won't have any say. And once we withdraw, it will be years - maybe 7 years or more - before any sort of trade deal with the EU or anyone else is ratified. The UK seems to think they're some kind of manufacturing power base but how will they be able to negotiate trade and manufacture goods to different standards in the EU, the U.S., India, Canada, etc., etc. Not to mention, trade goes both ways - how many goods can we be expected to import from all of these different countries? It's all completely ridiculous.

The EU has ruled that a simple parliamentary vote to retract Article 50 would reset the UK's relationship with the EU and they can have all of the membership privileges we had previously. It's a big climb down but seems the best way forward to me. They need to do it before the 29th of March because once we crash out of the EU, none of those options exist.

Irish Reunification isn't as simple as the north and south agreeing over a 'hard border', you imbecile.

[quote]Except in that comparison, Corbyn is a curious hybrid of Trump & Jill Stein.

You'd be surprised how many lefties are spouting Russian propaganda.

Corbyn is very similar to Jill Stein and her VP (some pro Islamic hypocrite who criticized the Charlie Hebdo march in Paris as a 'white power' organization)

These people are toxic. They get into office via being bribed and put in position of power by Russian oligarchs and radical Islamist cults.

The UK for a long time has suffered from corruption, dirty money and backhand dealings, going up into high level government positions. It's a slow but steady erosion of law and order, of democracy. I know immigration was used as a prime reason for Brexit, but in my opinion it's because the UK doesn't want the EU to control and eradicate the shady stuff that's been going on there. Immigration was never the real reason because the UK already had huge immigrant problems 20 years ago.

Yes you thick cunt. I'm your nearest neighbour.

I was with family in Yorkshire a week ago today.

You should try getting out of there for a while and look in from the outside.

The NHS is having a staffing crisis because of Brexit, as are Hotels, Care Homes and Social Care Services.

[quote]I don't really believe there was any meaningful Russian involvement in the US election either. It all seems far too convenient and conspiracy theory to me - and there seems to be a certain type of person who believes in it.

It's not a question of opinion, Boris; if you want to argue that you'll have to deal with a growing plethora of facts. Otherwise begone with your ad hominems!

Just cancel it already. Cut your losses. Come back strong against your enemies.

R156, Arlene, you're so willing to prove your Britishness that you'll turn NI into a cauldron of bombings and murder again.

We down south don't particularly want you people. Religious-ridden bigots.

NI is subsidised to the tune of £11 billion per year by the Brits. No equal marriage, no abortion, no recognition of another language. Happy to be called Irish if there is money in it for them.

Personally I'd like to see a channel dug around the place and let it float away and you can fight it out amongst yourselves. Anyone that wants to come south is more than welcome.

Doesn't the UK have any young, charismatic leaders available? Tony Blair without the puppy-dog nature?

Probably does but they won't be applying for the job until this mess is dead and buried.

Honestly I was rooting for May. Now if she would grow a backbone and say that Brexit is bad for the country maybe she would get some backing.

They need to shake things up over there. They act like their hands are tied when they are not. May, if you’re listening, only a bold move can save you now.

Might be an option for her. I think all of her political ambitions have been thwarted now, she's finished no matter what happens.

I respect May. For better or worse, the country voted for Brexit and she has worked to deliver the best deal possible. Given the split in public opinion there never was a reason to expect everyone would be happy with the outcome, but she has worked hard to find a reasonable compromise. As with many compromises however, neither side is happy but neither has anything better on offer, and it is of course always easier to sit on the sidelines and jeer. I think that eventually history will respect her for making the best of an pretty rough position.

Cancelling Brexit may make economic sense, but it would be political suicide. It would always be seen as a betrayal of the referendum. The lesson here is that governance by referendum is always and everywhere a mistake.

R139 Starmer would run a government like he ran the CP service - poorly.

Theresa May Theresa might But Theresa won't Because Theresa's shite Theresa May Theresa shan't And Theresa won't Because Theresa can't Theresa May Theresa tried But Theresa didn't Because Theresa lied Theresa May Theresa sucked And Theresa knows That Theresa's fucked

[quote] she has worked to deliver the best deal possible

But she hasn't delivered the best deal possible. When people voted to leave, they were told - by both sides - that leave meant an end to the single market, customs union, the ECJ, and freedom of movement. Both sides said this. Yet her deal has the UK tied to the ECJ, to the common fisheries pact, and possibly to a customs union and single market (NOI). And the UK cannot leave this possible backstop without the consent of the EU.

Not the best deal, not even a decent deal.

OK, but are you willing to live with a hard border with the Republic?

Merkel & Juncker pissed on May so badly, that she should come back to Britain & say "the EU just wants to fuck us over now, so lets just Hard Brexit & deal with it".

Shed save herself from a no confidence vote, the Tories from another general election that theyd likely lose & give Juncker & Co a group stroke.

I wish she had that kind of courage, but I doubt it

[quote] Jeremy Corbyn should be the next prime minister of the United Kingdom.

Corbyn's plan is for the Tories to crash out of Europe, the economy to go to shit, then when he wins the resulting election to create that glorious Leninist utopia he longs for while we're all to busy eating our beloved pets and relatives for nourishment to care.

If you don't have any debt, own your home and don't need to work any longer (which some of us do) then the outcome of all of this is unimportant and a great social experiment. It is also where most of the 'Baby Boomer' generation who voted to leave fall into, though I'm not sure that even they are prepared for the shit-show that will ensue with a No-Deal Brexit.

Glad I also have Irish (EU) Citizenship.

Oh just make it a monarchy again and Meghan queen. It will work wonders.

After Theresa May, Corbyn might.

I like R172 ‘s suggestion - I also like the suggestion made further up thread that she just come out in Parliament and say “this will be a disaster for the U.K. regardless of any deal”. Either one would finally show some backbone, and improve her standing. In either scenario, she’d be channeling Thatcher/Churchill, showing herself willing to speak an uncomfortable truth plainly in the name of saving the country from either evil Eurocrats or from reactionaries at home.?

The added bonus of Merkel and Junker (and possibly Nicola S and some others) stroking out in the former scenario, and Johnson, Gove, Farage et al in the latter scenario is just the cherry on top.

Admittedly, I don’t have a dog in this fight. I haven’t lived in London in many years, but my flat is long paid for and on a lease longer than my lifetime and the next, so any drop in value will be felt by the Grosvenors, not me. As such, I get to watch what another poster termed “this social experiment” and see how and where the chips will fall.

[quote] Not the best deal, not even a decent deal.

it's not a decent deal, R170, but it's still the best one possible. How could May have got a better one? Contrary to what we were told by the Brexiteers before the referendum, the EU has all the negotiating power.

r177 You are planning to eat and use the NHS at some point in your remaining years though?

The Queen may have to take direct control of the government, which would make many people happy.

[quote]and she has worked to deliver the best deal possible.

It's not the best deal possible. She let the EU rulers roll completely over her. She should have made a pact with Trump for support and then dictated her own terms to the EU.

The Parliament Act 2011 removed the prerogative power of the Queen, with her consent.

Really complicated but it's on Hansard.

She's a very strange person. Control freak, insular... you can't lead an army of one. Well you can, but you get this mess.

I forget what fuck up she pulled but my favourite part of a newspaper column about was headline 'Worst only child ever.'

r182 She can still sack or appoint a prime minister. Which weirdly enough John McDonnell the republican Labour shadow Chancellor suggested she do the other week.

This cunt created the 'hostile environment' that made being a foreign worker of any kind heinous (I was on a knowledge worker visa). I'm enjoying this so much from my happy home on the continent. Die, bitch, die.

Since the PM is the Queen's PM and it is the Queen's government, she would have to have the power to replace the PM.

Possibly R184 R186, It's never happened though and I doubt that HM Queen Elizabeth II is going to set a precedent.

A fantasy version of brexit was sold during the referendum campaign and it is now come back to bite the conservative government indeed the wider political class on the ass .

She certainly won't want to. But when the Commons reject her deal May's going to have no choice to resign. After that everything's up in the air, and I don't think I've ever seen so many serious commentators speculating about royal intervention before this.

R179 - I should have been more precise with my “I haven’t lived in London in years” line - I’m in NYC so no, the NHS is not something I see in my future even if I do wind up back in London. I may have been a bit flippant in my post, trust me from family and friends I am all too aware of how badly things can go, but this is DL so flippancy and snark are par for the course. I mean, it’s not like we’re on the forums at “Foreign Policy” discussing Brexit.

FWIW, I don’t think anyone, with the possible exception of Nigel, ever thought Brexit would pass. It was meant to appease the Eurosceptics, and I think, be used by Cameron as a chip to win some concessions from the EU. This would potentially set up Cameron and the Tories for a larger majority and the capital to push thru their agenda. Everyone played their role - remainer, leaver - and the plan was set. Except, things didn’t exactly follow the plan did they? Which is where we find ourselves now. Whoever is PM is in an untenable position, which is why some backbone, and channeling Thatcher/Churchill for either message is, I think, preferable to the chaos unfolding now.

None of this shit is Theresa May's fault. She was anti-Brexit. The pro-Brexit shitheads went running the minute it was passed and left her, a woman, to take charge and spin shit into gold. Typical. They should be made to come back and fix this problem. That fat fuck Boris Johnson should be horsewhipped, along with David Cameron and fug faced Nigel Farage.

Jeremy Corbyn is a traitor to Britain. His ties to the IRA and supporting Muslim terrorists should have placed him in front of a firing squad a long time ago - Hamas-loving pos! Labour lost its collective mind a long time. Jesus Christ, Diane Abbott, are you fucking kidding me??! Britain literally has no one to run it. The masses are dumb as a box of rocks. I wouldn't be surprised if people voted in favour of Brexit again. You can't count on people actually getting off their asses and voting anyway. All these pro-remain twerps just sit and bitch.

Brexit is a result of every arrogance and stupidity that British people are ever accused of by a generation that are harking back to an 'Empire' that didn't exist when they were born.

I have sufficient funds to watch from the sidelines from my other home in Italy fortunately.

[quote]I have sufficient funds to watch from the sidelines from my other home in Italy fortunately.

Italy? Who the fuck would want to live in that place??! It's crazy town. Hang onto your dough and get ready to move again.

I'm OK got other houses in Dublin, Malta and Cape Verde, think I'll survive.

R182/R194, Mother always said “Nobody likes a braggart, dear.”

I’m not British so please help me out. I thought after the vote they said a majority of citizens favored staying. Why can’t the government just say fuck it, call for another referendum and be done with all of this?

The EU might make a few concessions but over the course of the next 20 years in sure the UK can position itself back into a favorable position.

What’s the issue?

I’m not British so please help me out.

I thought after the Brexit vote they said a majority supported staying but didn’t turn out to vote. So why can’t they just hold another refurrendum on this or just say to hell with it and cancel Brexit.

I’m sure the EU will force some hard concessions to deter other countries from leaving, but in 10-20 years the UK can negotiate ya way back into a favorable position.

What’s the deal with the government moving forward with this Kamikaze mission?

R195 They didn't cost me more than a couple of nice cars (less than $60,000 for both) and the one in Malta is technically rented on a 999 lease for $19 a year.

[quote] I thought after the Brexit vote they said a majority supported staying but didn’t turn out to vote. So why can’t they just hold another refurrendum on this or just say to hell with it and cancel Brexit.

r197 I think Brexits a massive mistake but you can't form government policy based on newspaper polls on the way some people said they would have voted in if they could have been arsed to get out of bed, the referendum wasn't exactly a secret.

As to why they haven't called another yet the Conservatives have been having a civil war on the EU for 40 years and the aftermath of saying there's going to be another referendum would probably shred the party, and Jeremy Corbyn is a leaver so everyone is avoiding that option for party political reasons. But honestly once May fails there'll probably a second referendum just so the politicians can kick the nearly exploding bomb at someone else to deal with... I'm still not 100% leave won't win again.

Thank you r199. These parliamentary systems are so foreign to me.

[quote] Brexit is a result of every arrogance and stupidity that British people are ever accused of by a generation that are harking back to an 'Empire' that didn't exist when they were born.

Old powers have to adjust.

R185 Your skill/knowledge must not have been specialised or sufficient enough to keep you in the UK . Ouch. Think that's the real chip on your shoulder, not Mrs May. Being a foreign worker should be an unpleasant experience, and I say that as a foreign worker. I and my US employer had to go through a lot of shit to secure my visa because at the end of the day I was taking a job away from a citizen.

But do enjoy the continent. I hear the Christmas markets are nice this year.

R191 You don't know anything, do you? Three pro-Brexit shitheads, as you call them, ran for leader of the Cons, May being the only Remainer candidate. Gove, Johnson, and Leadsom were all Leave supporters and all ran for the Tory leadership. For various reasons, they all fell out of contention and it was May by default.

R197 This isn't about parliamentary procedures, so don't claim ignorance on that basis. You must understand how democracies work. The "refurrendum" was a legal, democratic vote. The UK decided by a majority to leave the EU. In a working democracy you can't 1) ignore a democratic vote, 2) reverse a democratic vote without recourse to a second vote, and 3) have that second vote BEFORE the result of the first one has been enacted, ie, the UK can't hold a second referendum until it leaves the UK (the result of the first referendum).

Actually, the wording of the referendum was that it was an "Advisory" vote. According to British law, Parliament is sovereign and could override any vote of the people in a referendum - providing a majority in Parliament wanted to do so:

"The simple answer to the question as to whether the EU referendum is legally binding is “no”. In theory, in the event of a vote to leave the EU, David Cameron, who opposes Brexit, could decide to ignore the will of the people and put the question to MPs banking on a majority deciding to remain.

This is because parliament is sovereign and referendums are generally not binding in the UK."

This was the legal assessment prior to Brexit and it is still the legal assessment.

[quote]I thought after the Brexit vote they said a majority supported staying but didn’t turn out to vote. So why can’t they just hold another refurrendum on this or just say to hell with it and cancel Brexit.

Oh, dear, you sound really, really retarded.

[quote]May being the only Remainer candidate. Gove, Johnson, and Leadsom were all Leave supporters and all ran for the Tory leadership.

Boris Johnson DID NOT run for leadership, hon.

The mindset of the Tory in the link is revealing.

The vast majority of Irish have great affection/ties with the UK. Media/sport/travel/relations/friendships etc. We will never forget, though, the systematic attempts to wipe out the Irish from the clearances where people were forced into the poor western areas west of the Shannon. Cromwell's deportation of hundreds of thousands to the West indies to the slave markets, transportation to Australia, and the mass starvation of 1 million people in 1845-47, after which the population collapsed from 9 million to under 4 million by 1870.

The busiest airline in the UK is today Irish owned Ryanair. The old flag carrier Aer Lingus is owned by AIG who own British Airways. Irish products are on all UK supermarket shelves, and the big cities ring with British accents be they resident or tourist.

Mayday! Mayday! Will Treeza get the chop??

Easily one of the worst PMs in history, and that’s saying something. Her tenure has been a complete catastrophe, plunging the UK into a crisis not seen since WW2. She’ll be gone by the end of the day.

She kissed Trump’s ass during his visit. Not even the puppet-Queen was willing to do that.

May is simply an embarrassment, that rolls over whenever a bigger fish is in the room. You’d never know that the British use to rule the world with fickle leaders like her running things.

It appears one is about to get a new Prime Minister for Christmas

We won't get a new Prime Minister for Christmas as any leadership contest wouldn't be finalised in the next two weeks.

My instinct is that she will win the contest. None of the rest of the Tories actually want to be PM at the moment. It's a poisoned chalice.

R214 If she wins the question is what happens to her Brexit deal.

It could be abandoned, R215.

So if she resigns tonight there will be an interim government through the holidays? I don’t think so. There would have to be a General Election by Christmas, wouldn’t there?

Let Boris drink from the poisoned chalice. He poisoned it.

r215 Nothing. The leadership debate is an internal Conservative matter, the Brexit vote is parliamentary, plus the way they'll vote in one doesn't reflect how they'll vote in another. They'll probably go ahead and vote on the deal even if she loses out of lack of other options.

Cameron is the ultimate coward, because he started the mess and then ran, like the coward he is, leaving others to clean up HIS mess. May's main fault was that she stepped forward in the first place thinking even though it looks like it's going a mess either way that she still would manage to do the unthinkable and solve this mess and come out of this as greatly celebrated saviour.

She ousted Cameron with the help of Gove.

R220 Cameron announced his resignation almost immediately after the vote. What are you talking about?

[quote]It's a poisoned chalice.

I've built up an immunity!

r220 If she engineered Cameron calling a referendum, tricked Gove into becoming a Brexiter, then persuaded Cameron to resign within 12 hours of the result she's a better politician than I've ever given her credit for.

I really wish Owen Smith had become Labour leader back in 2016. He couldn't possibly have done a worse job than Corbyn is doing right now. It's infuriating to see Labour so neutered. They should be taking advantage of the state that the Tories have got themselves into. Anna Soubry has said publicly that she's embarrassed to call herself a Conservative right now. And as the video below shows, Tory infighting seems to have hit an all-time high.

“infighting”

Hmmmm wonder why that is.

You can't beat something with with nothing. As long as Corbyn is leader the UK will have a conservative government

So far it sounds like she will survive the confidence vote but it puts Tories in an odd position of backing the PM but not her Brexit deal. If she should lose the vote or offer he resignation to the Queen tonight, Dominic Raab seems to be the betting favorite right now.

[quote] As long as Corbyn is leader the UK will have a conservative government

Getting rid of Corbyn is only the beginning. The entire Labour Party membership needs to be gotten rid of, especially those who voted for him for Leader . . . TWICE.

They will have two hours to vote. Results later tonight?

We should know around 9 pm tonight according to BBC.

[quote]I really wish Owen Smith had become Labour leader back in 2016.

Why? He's laughably unsuitable and has virtually no backing in either the party or the country.

Listening to coverage on LBC Radio via my Tune In app. Damn, Eddie Mair has a sexy voice. That soft Scottish accent makes me hard as a rock.

I want Corbyn as PM but not now. No one can come out of this Brexit mess intact. The Tories created it, they should clean it up. Yet if he does not grab the ring now will he lose that moment?

[quote]Damn, Eddie Mair has a sexy voice. That soft Scottish accent makes me hard as a rock.

A compliment he'd enjoy, he's family.

I know, R234. And he ain’t too bad looking, either.

Julian Worricker on BBC Radio also has an incredibly sexy voice. Not Scottish, though.

R232 haha LBC - I've never heard that station outside of a minicab.

R227 You cannot be serious.He had NO IDEA of how important the port of Dover is to British business.

I wish Dominic Raab was less good looking

R231, I can't imagine Smith would do a worse job than Corbyn is currently doing.

The no-confidence vote is expected to fail.

Which makes the Tories look even more stupid. May can't get her deal through parliament and they can't get rid of her - total dysfunction. Bodes well for a 2nd Referendum.

R240, that’s always been projected. What matters is the amount of votes against May which indicates how big a split there is in the Tory party.

I think the problem with this or any referendum is the fact that a simple majority (50% + 1) is all it takes for it to be deemed passed. At the very least, for questions of this magnitude, or like the Scottish Independence one, the threshold should be 60% - this way if it passes, there is a clear mandate and no one can argue it was a case of “oh it was so close!” Otherwise, with a simple majority, here is where we are, with calls for a second referendum which as a previous poster noted, may still very well pass. In which case, does one just keep holding them until happy with the result? Madness.

The people trying to kick May out are the ones who want the UK to crash out of the EU with no deal.

STFU, R236, you fucking snob/knob. LBC actually gets a pretty large listening audience outside taxicabs.

Nicola Sturgeon wants May OUT. She bears an amazing physical likeness to both Angela Merkel and one of the Krankies.

Announcement soon...

One is just turning on the telly, did one miss anything?

200 voted for her to remain leader 117 voted against her.

She remains PM

She stays but the opposition is strong and she won’t get brexit through House of Commons

R249 You do realise there're a lot more MPs than the Tories who've just voted in their non-Parliamentary vote, right? As a lot of people have said the Brexit deal she's trying to get through Parliament is the best deal going, a lot of MPs will vote it through because it's best for the country.

Rumblings now that as early as next week Labour could force a No Confidence vote against the Tory GOVERNMENT. Oy.

R250 Of course I do. But it won’t be good enough for those who oppose her. Her position is impossible. Whatever she gets from EU won’t be enough. No MP would get the majority behind Brexit deal.

r250 It's not best for the country in anyone's mind. It's not strong enough for BREXITERS and it's obviously unsatisfying to reamainers. That's before you get to the fact that Labour are voting against it to force an election, and the DUP who make up May's majority in Parliament oppose any compromise to the republic. She's fucked no matter how long she delays the vote.

So she won by a considerable margin, but it's still pretty embarrassing. 37% of her own MPs officially have no confidence in her.

I HIGHLY doubt anyone who voted against her will vote for the Brexit plan which puts it triple digits away from passing

No way can it ever pass now.

R3 it's run by the Oxbridge mafia, which is a fiction, because most of those kids only get in because daddy and mummy pay for very expensive tutors who would get them in. And this is the result — the 'Eton mess'

Is a no deal Brexit the only option now?

R6 it could be much worse; it could be Boris Johnson........

No they can still cancel the whole thing. And should.

R11 you're right. Nicola should do the trick.

R260, canceling the whole thing isn't a realistic option. It would leave half the country feeling angry and betrayed. It would be political suicide.

R62, no, this sums it up nicely.

Sometimes people change their minds. It happens.

R262 they made a decision based on no information. Some percentage of Brexiteers must now know it's not all upside 0 downside.

Nevertheless, the vote was taken and any government is going to feel they have to respect it. Do you seriously expect the PM to announce "You made a decision based on no information. Therefore I am reversing it"? She wouldn't make it back to #10 alive. It just isn't going to happen.

The Economist has made the same point. May is personally not unpopular, despite dislike of the negotiated deal.

"...the prime minister seems to be more popular than her Brexit deal:

"She's dogged. She's determined. She's got a real sense of duty. And it's interesting that although the Brexit deal she's negotiated seems to upset just about everyone, she herself has actually gone up in the public estimation over the last few weeks. I think people see her standing there hour after hour in the bear pit at the House of Commons being attacked by people on her own side — mainly men, it has to be said. And I think it — her sort of doggedness — actually resonates with people.

"So although she's often seen as rather an unimaginative politician and just really blundering her way through this Brexit morass, in the end, people quite respect the fact that she's still there and she's still standing."

Remainers who want to be citizens of the EU have a way to accomplish that by moving to France or Spain or wherever. The obvious compromise of the original referendum is the Brexiteers stay put and the Remainers move to the EU. Everyone should end up happy.

The UK needs new and fresh leadership as badly as the US.

If I were May, I would resign now. In fact, I think that would be the least humiliating way out of the unholy mess she's dug herself into. It seems highly unlikely that she'll get her Brexit proposal through Parliament, given that more than a third of her own MPs have just declared no confidence in her. But she won the vote comfortably nonetheless, so she'd be leaving on her own terms.

She could say, "I am grateful for my party's support, blah blah blah, but the minority who voted against me is significant enough to make me realise that my presence is creating division at a time when we must all pull together, and for the country's sake I am stepping aside." Make out that she's doing something noble, watch all her Brexiteer colleagues panic when they realise one of them is going to have to take her place (because, for all their grandstanding about how they would get a better deal from the EU than hers, they know perfectly well they won't), and sit back and relax over Christmas.

[quote]The obvious compromise of the original referendum is the Brexiteers stay put and the Remainers move to the EU. Everyone should end up happy.

We're not going anywhere.

R270 She stays put, which is where she needs to be. None of the straight dicks rebelling against her are fit for purpose or fit for leadership.

Even with the uncertainty and chaos, an independent UK will be a far better place to live than the EU. Doubters will just have to wait and see with their own eyes.

[quote]Even with the uncertainty and chaos, an independent UK will be a far better place to vacation with euros and dollars.

Fixed that for you!

The effect of jumping out of a plane without a parachute isn't something you have to wait and see with your own eyes, it's something you know to avoid R273

For the most part, tomorrow's papers are portraying this as a hollow victory for May:

She’s just floundering now.

A second referendum will NOT happen.

R277 Britain is foundering. This is the result of Englands totally unfounded and passé attitude of superiority towards Europe. It's a comeuppance.

True, R278. Refusal to make Euros the currency was just the tip of the iceberg.

If there's one good thing that's come from British euroscepticism it's not jumping head first into histories most retarded currency experiment.

R280 england always knows better

We can't all have the economic foresight of Greece, Italy or Spain. Hopefully soon you'll convince those economic wrecks and bastions of EU hatred like Denmark, Sweden, the Czech Republic , Poland, etc to join up as well.

R282 hence Brexit. It was historically inevitable. It is a necessary phase to finding your place in new global order.

I am the furthest thing from a eurosceptic but the one legitimate grievance I can see countries having with the EU is losing their own currency.

When you have your own currency, you can have your own central bank that can help your economy stabilize in bad times. But when just one country in the EU in going through bad times, like Greece, obviously the central bank for Europe can't shuffle around everything just to help that one country. Most anti-EU arguments are idiotic and nonsensical but that's a legitimate one

Wow

@juliamacfarlane

This Scorsese of a shot dominating the news today, masterfully captured by a cameraman whilst being escorted out - what was their name?

Will anything happen on the Brexit front next week?

Everyones probably going to circle the wagons and shut up for Christmas. Parliament shuts on Thursday, and I doubt May wants to go back to Europe. All bets are off for the new year though. Bare knuckle boxing match between Junker and May, Britain invading Ireland, SNP winning seats in Hampshire, who can tell anymore?

As Parliament prepares to break next week is when it is going to sink in with all parties that a hard exit is inevitable. May's plan will remain unacceptable to Parliament, and the EU has made it clear they won't renegotiate. It is a classic deadlock, and at this point there isn't really any realistic alternative to the hard exit.

R207 Of course he did. He was planning to enter the race until Gove stabbed him in the back, and he realised that he couldn't get the votes. He then gave that speech. MPs then voted against Gove for his treachery, leaving Leadsom and May. Leadsom made some comment about being a better candidate for leader because she was a mother (May couldn't have children because of her diabetes) and had to drop out of the race when it upset people. May won by default.

R241 A second referendum isn't looking more likely. It's looking less likely. May has said many times that there won't be a second go, so if she stays (she's now immune for a year), there won't be. If she is forced out and a Leave MP takes her place, he/she certainly won't call another referendum.

Corbyn is a closet Eurosceptic and was probably pleased that Leave won. If he called a no-confidence vote and triggered a general election, even he wouldn't be likely to call another referendum.

Added to this, Article 50 has the UK leaving at the end of March. There isn't time to arrange a second referendum without delaying Article 50, which the 27 would need to agree to. They're not going to do that because they want to make an example out of the UK so other countries don't think about leaving. They aren't going to give an inch.

R243 So "questions of this magnitude" should have a 60% majority? Will key decisions by the SCOTUS need to be 60%? The laws of the US as they apply to the Constitution are pretty important. The US presidency is an major decision, should that be 60% too? What if no candidate gets 60%? Do we just stick with the status quo?

R290 - I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I read that the EU have confirmed they would postpone the deadline for leaving if the UK chose to have a second referendum. I'll see if I can find the reference.

We can withdraw the application to leave (Article 50) at any point before March and arrange another vote, probably end of next summer.

It shouldn't really have been triggered before the negotiations and deal were in place in any case.

R291, on the contrary supermajority rules are quite common in parliamentary procedure. Changes to constitutions, tax measures or veto overrides quite frequently require supermajority votes. It's actually quite sensible. I would agree that the original referendum should have required a supermajority for a step of such massive scope. It is a way of ensuring widespread support, and avoiding the sort of situation the UK is in now.

Certainly a percentage of the 'Baby Boomer' ( post-war) generation who voted to leave in 2016 are dead or incapacitated by now, it'd be interesting to see the result of a repeat vote in 2019.

r291 It's definitely stacking the deck in favour of the status-quo. On the otherhand the referendum would never have been called if Cameron knew how it'd turn out.

There is no way out because it is enforced globalism. That is what it is about. No one wants enforced globalism-endless austerity, but no real party or no real way exists to fight it. None of the politicans can talk honestly about because they have no way out and are there to serve banks etc.

I guess Britain will crash out under a no deal.

R287 They are already invading as they buy houses and land in case Brexit is bad. House prices driven up even more by Brits buying in Ireland. Something like 200k applications for Irish passports from UK.

Irish (Eire) passports are easily obtainable for a lot of UK citizens as you only need an Irish Grandparent (or a living parent who has one). In the North-West of England (Liverpool/Manchester) almost everybody has at least one.

Last night’s SNL had a moderately good sketch with Kate McKinnon as May. She should stick with Merkel, though.

May makes a good point as a leader of a democratic country:

"Let us not break faith with the British people by trying to stage another referendum.

"Another vote which would do irreparable damage to the integrity of our politics, because it would say to millions who trusted in democracy, that our democracy does not deliver."

The idea that ASKING THE PEOPLE is somehow a BETRAYAL OF THE PEOPLE is absurd on the face of it. They're just terrified of what the result of a second referendum would be, hence the irony.

I think the idea is it's akin to saying "you idiots clearly voted wrong the first time. Vote again." Which true or not isn't really great from a democratic standpoint. Plus I'm not sure what we do in the likely event remain ends up winning by under 55%. You're then going to have about half the population with some reasonable grounds demanding a runoff referendum, and that's never happening.

I Don’t get the fear of another referendum. I mean - the first wasn’t binding - and lots didn’t take it seriously - and increasingly info is coming out to suggest the Russians had their claws innit. So why not another, better organised version where everyone is better versed in the pros and cons and consequences?

I mean - it was fishy as fuck! All that propaganda courtesy of Putin! No shame in a redo.

[quote]I think the idea is it's akin to saying "you idiots clearly voted wrong the first time. Vote again."

But you could say that's true of every subsequent general election. The thing being voted on has now changed so significantly that a new vote would be different from the previous one. So going back to the people has a strong logical basis and is in no way a betrayal of the very people whose opinion is being sought.

And OP -from a distance - much as I dislike her party and policies - and not that fond of her either! - you can’t place all the blame on May. I mean - after causing this fucking disaster - many of the chief instigators seem to have deserted when they realised what a nightmare it was gonna be. She’s been left holding the bag really - and probably has done as well as anyone could have under the circumstances. At least she seems wed to some sense of duty - and doesn’t just piss off when it’s become too hard.

And really - all around her is no better. And labour have been really disappointing as well. The whole political class are a mess there right now. God help you all!

Right on r308

Whatever happens we are well and truly fucked. Both the US and the UK are jokes on the international stage right now but the US can recover. I doubt we can. We were a a nation that punched above our weight because of our international positioning, alliances and history and, in one fell swoop, we pissed it away.

Bleating on about Corbyn, who I don’t particularly like, is meaningless. This was started by Cameron and the Tories have mishandled it to a staggering degree. A special place in Hell is, however, reserved for Johnson and Rees-Mogg, who were willing to sell us all out for their own self aggrandisement.

What is particularly galling is that, when we all really start to suffer because of this idiocy, those responsible will undoubtedly blame it on Europe, as they do everything else, and not their own appalling judgement. However, I will still try to get some satisfaction from their whining that life isn’t how they expected it to and that they didn’t really vote for what we will all actually get. Cold comfort, but that will most likely be the only kind found.

[quote]This was started by Cameron and the Tories have mishandled it to a staggering degree. A special place in Hell is, however, reserved for Johnson and Rees-Mogg, who were willing to sell us all out for their own self aggrandisement.

Useful class war point being that all three attended what's fawningly deemed the best school in the country. This shambles enabled by shoddy preparation then arrogant opportunism is hardly an endorsement for Eton.

The self-styled media 'characters' of Johnson and Rees-Mogg are especially incensing - as though they're just using politics as a huge theatrical game for their egotistical posturing. They deserve every ounce of vilification coming their way.

May has indeed been incredibly stalwart and tough under intense pressure. She's in an impossible position. It's to be hoped she finds time while still leader to ensure Johnson's lust for her position is killed off forever, in such a way that he knows she wielded the knife.

The fact that despite everything that has happened, May is still higher in the opinion polls than Corbyn or any other potential Prime Minister and Labour and the Conservatives are still neck and neck in the polls. This why the Tories trying to push May out look even more idiotic. I agree with may that a 2nd referendum is a bad idea. If remain were to win a second referendum, trust me the wider Tory membership will take a hard turn to the right and it's very possible it would lead to a Trump like PM.

[quote]Tory membership will take a hard turn to the right

Have you seen the state of the UK? They can't get any more right wing.

R313 Oh yes they can. Are you following how rightwing the US is?

Theresa a failure; so OP, what else did you expect her, as a Tory, to do with her life?

The UK will never be as right wing as the US. It's not possible without something like a senate that can block popular proposals

r316 Exactly. The UK is currently as right-wing as it gets. The reason Corbyn is doing so well is because we've had decades of "centrism", where the Labour Party was basically centre-right and the Tories are hard right. It can't get any worse than it is now.

[quote The reason Corbyn is doing so well

How are you measuring success here?

People who think that right-wing populism won't happen in the UK need to get their heads out of their ass. Remember when people were saying Brexit would never happen, Trump couldn't possible win. Look at Boris he might not be popular with Tory officials but he's very popular among the general Tory membership and could win a leadership contest.

It would actually be easier for an ultra-right wing party to achieve its agenda as long as it has a majority in the House of Commons.

I really want to like this lady. I hope she turns it around. She was originally against Brexit which shows she has some sense somewhere.

No if she were only brave enough to push another referendum. Winner take all.

The Tories are not hard or far right. That position is reserved for the BNP and EDL loons who wield about as much power in British politics as a goldfish does in the ocean. The Conservatives have been centre-right for decades now and Labour - until Corbyn, anyway - was centre-left under Blair, Brown and Miliband.

[quote]No if she were only brave enough to push another referendum.

She was just answering questions in the HoC for well over an hour and was asked many, many times by members across the house about the possibility of a second referendum. She refused in the clearest terms. She doesn't want one. She probably sees this as her legacy.

[quote]Labour - until Corbyn, anyway - was centre-left under Blair, Brown and Miliband.

Blair/Brown presided over a government that wanted to introduce identity cards for everyone, who introduced private competition into the NHS, who sold the Royal Mail (something even Thatcher wasn't willing to do) and got us into a catastrophic illegal war. Their Labour Party would not fit under any sane definition of "left wing", center or otherwise.

They're neo-liberals, which basically means country club Republicans of old. Corporate interests above all.

Theresa is very religious. She loves bringing up god, her religion, and being a vicar’s daughter all the time. She freaked out over something she perceived as anti-Easter and Jesus a few years ago.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Kind of scary how many here take the word of the Daily Mail as the gospel truth.

Corbyn just tabled a no confidence motion against May. She rolled her eyes at him and then walked out of the House!

r328 That's a video by (and the view they want to promote) the Russian RT network. Be careful how you frame these things, dear x

Jeremy Corbyn tables no confidence motion that is certain to fail. While country edges closer to cliff. I'm going to have to start avoiding the news on days where I can't drink.

Why Corbin bothers I don't understand. Tories will self implode with Brexit. It's a live bomb ticking away.

She survives one vote of no confidence only for Corbyn to call for another one less than week later. She's not having the best December.

R332 Corbyn won't win, even Brexiteers within the Tory part who tried to end her leadership say the will vote against Corbyn's motion as will the DUP. Corbyn is just wasting time with this trying to subdue the voices in his party calling for an election.

I never saw the eye roll. The video cuts of with her still plainly in the house.

So wtf

r334 It's a video by Russia Today. Putin wants Brexit to go ahead, so his propaganda channels are behind May 100%.

I don't support another referendum, because the results could just muddle things more. Effectively there would need to be three choices: 1) Accept May's deal on offer 2) Return to the EU 3) Go with hard exit.

It is likely that none of the above would get a majority. So do they go with a plurality vote? Use ranked preference voting? Would the outcome be binding? A second referendum will just stir the pot and leave the public even more bitter.

I think we need a general election. If the tories win, then May has a clear mandate for her deal. If Labour win, then they have a mandate for their alternative.

If only it were that simple. May clearly hasn't a "mandate" for her deal from the Conservative Party, so even if they were to win a general election we would be where we are now, and both sides support Leave.

[quote]and both sides support Leave

Both sides support the democratic process, which isn't the same thing. And May just won a confidence vote from her party, so if they won a general election, the mandate for her deal would be clear.

I don't see any possibility but a no-deal. Is crashing out so bad? I'd think the U.K. would be resilient enough to pick up the pieces, dust herself off and get going again.

Leaving the EU is turning into a disaster just as predicted and it's now an international embarrassment. And if the UK ends up remaining in the EU after all this, it will just make the country look even more ridiculous. It's not just May that's a problem, it's pretty much every politician across all parties. For something as huge as Brexit, there should have been a cross party committee working on negotiations with the EU. This is a major change that is going to effect the country for a generation but rather than working together it continues to be a partisan battle.

R340 In the long run the UK would likely be ok from a no-deal, but there will be an economic fall out that will last several years.

The cabinet announced today that all no-deal scenarios are now being implemented including putting over 3000 troops on standby in case of rioting!!

The only people I know who voted for it are older family members or slightly dumb acquaintances who consider themselves apolitical but naturally lean right, they love cream tea, poppy day and the queen, don't like immigrants and live selfish small lives. Referenda are a terrible idea as the people are too stupid for the responsibility and just vote emotionally, .They are now either bored with it all or in extreme cases, chomping at the bit for 'Freedom'. Years of reading right wing reports of the 'un-elected Brussels bureaucrats ' mixed with their inherent racism have done their work. It's the shitshow anyone sensible could see coming and it's very cold comfort to be able to say 'I told you so'.

What's Farage said to all this lately?

Can some knowledgeable person explain in plain language what has happened and what is going on now with Brexit?

Was the vote to Brexit really based on bigotry or was it based on sovereignty for England ?

Why did they allow people to vote on it if they knew they would not want to allow Brexit to happen?

How did England benefit from being in the EU?

What will change once they Brexit?

R245

1. Bigotry. 2. Opportunist Tories 3. More ops for youngs 4. Less ops for youngs

R345 Bigots pose as those concerned about sovereignty. Hating the EU has been a Tory fixation since its inception, they 'allowed' the vote or rather were forced into to by more right wing pretenders like UKIP who were stealing Tory anti-immigrant thunder and goading the Eurosceptic Tories to be even more hateful . Cameron thought he could hold the referendum, win it and close down the argument. Thanks Cameron. Sadly those who believed right wing propaganda 'won' the vote, ignoring the fact Britain benefited from 40 years of complex negotiations between 27 member states that made transactions smoother and are invaluable for industry, particularly car manufacture which is likely to disappear in Britain post Brexit. Manufacturers want access to the largest markets and Britain will not be part of that after Brexit and isn't big enough alone. We will need to renegotiate with every country and as has been seen by the negotiations of the past two years that will likely be a tragic mess. Britain benefited from generous EU subsidies but, such is the stupidity of the populace, places like Cornwall and Wales ( recipients of large EU subsidies ) voted to leave. Britain won't disappear after Brexit but it will be less significant, it voted to be poorer and have less influence.

R347 having been alive in the 1970s when the UK joined what was then the EEC (now the EU), the Conservatives were largely pro-Europe while Labour was against. This changed in the 80s as the EU moved away from being an economic community to becoming more of a single state. Thatcher was dead set against the UK giving away national sovereignty to Brussels and ironically her growing anti-European sentiment (epitomized by her famous NO, NO, NO speech) that was part of the reason she was pushed out as leader, but this cemented the European divide within the Tories. Labour really only became fully pro-EU (although Corbyn has always been anti-EU but stopped saying so to become party leader) during the Blair Era.

Wow. That's tragic.

Thanks 347.

This Yank wishes our cousins across the pond all the best. Clearly both our countries are headed for harder times.

[quote]Cameron thought he could hold the referendum, win it and close down the argument. Thanks Cameron.

Brexit is for Cameron what Iraq was and is for Blair. Blair won't ever concede he was wrong, but I've heard that Cameron deeply regrets the shambles he initiated. Unlike Blair he rarely if ever puts his head above the parapet these days. It's obvious why.

R348 there may have been fluctuations in admiration for the EU from both parties, but it's the Tories who have consistently made it a bone of contention, Labour would never have instigated a referendum on this, it is a Tory obsession.

One more request.

Can anyone suggest a good overview on 20th century English politics and government? I do feel our fates are intertwined and I want to understand.

Thanks.

r347 To be somewhat fair to Cameron after "project fear" aka telling people basic common sense facts about domestic, political and foreign policy situations worked so well in the Scottish referendum. He likely reasonably assumed it'd work in an EU one as well, and he could settle one of the great debates o the modern UK. It's just no one anywhere bothered to point out when leave was blatantly making shit up like what happened in Scotland.

R345 r352 Datalounge. Look no further.

We should commandeer a big island somewhere and send all US Republicans and UK Tories there. For good. And make sure it's somewhere cold.

R351 I was 22 years old during the 1975 referendum on staying in the EEC, the conservatives campaigned on remain while Labour campaigned on the no side. While I will agree there was some tensions in both parties, the Tories were the pro-European party until the late 80s when Thatcher began to push back against the EU and she was pushed out as leader (for a number of reasons beyond the EU) but this is when the EU became a diving. If you want to know just how anti-EU Labour was in the 70s and 80s, youtube speeches by Barbara Castle and Peter Shore.

Thanks for nothin 354

Britons have been bitching and moaning about the EU for decades. Frankly, I think the EU might actually be better off without the UK (except for Ireland). It wouldn't be surprising if a lot of Europeans felt this way, but it would be impolitic to come out and say it.

R358 It's hard to drop19th century attitudes that quickly or easily.

It's hard to drop 19th century attitudes...200 years later?

R358 most of the EU thought highly of Britain before this. Smaller countries saw them as a needed counterweight to stop France and Germany from dominating the whole thing and larger countries respected them as a beacon of liberal democracy

Corbyn allegedly called May a stupid woman in the house of commons today. His people are denying it despite the fact it was caught on camera.

What a fucking hypocrite. This trot and his Brexit-supporting inner politburo needs to go

She's not just a stupid woman, she's a stupid cunt. Tragically her popularity has risen as her feet have dug in further, such is the stupidity of the British public, they love the underdog, but her stick-to-it-iveness is pointless when applied to the utterly futile'plan' she is clinging to...what a stupid cunt!

And you do know Milne and his puppet’s position on Brexit do you, r364?

Who cares R364? There is no decent position apart from walking away from this pile of shit, but fuck Corbyn, it's May and the Tories who are 'leading' this debacle, I'd rather concentrate on what that silly bitch is doing than join in your Trotsky/Corbyn obsession.

Jeremy Corbyn: Jew-hater. Misogynist. Progressive.

I meant R366 for R365

I still think Corbyn is in bed with Russia.

I'm Labour but I REALLY don't want Corbyn. I'd take anyone else. Abbot even

Owen Jones was attacked after an interview by thugs shouting at him 'Labour hates Jews', when this got boring they reverted to 'Faggot' ...am amused by right wing horrors jumping on the Jew hater bit, they don't give a fuck about antisemitism.

Fuck you right wing shitbags, thanks to the Tories we are planning to have troops deployed to cope with potential riots and you cunts are all 'What about that Corbyn!'

I cant stand the Tories, and the Right. But I fucking detest Corbyniski and his pro-brexit, pro-putin, pro-IRA, pro-Hamas..etc etc etc ..comrades and his supreme Soviet leader Milne

What a bit of Jew hatred eh R372? Been entrenched in England for over a 1,000 years. Just part of being a Brit, innit?

Corbyn and much of the Labour membership are full on, unashamed bigots. But so what? May's the problem!

I should add as much as I can't stand Corbyn I would take him over May in a HEARTBEAT. Not even close. Then I would push Labour to dump him seconds after he became prime minister.

Owen Jones I really like

Damn. And I thought we were fucked up.

Jew hatred is endemic everywhere innit R372 ? Tory Jews are gleeful at the idea of bashing the left. Try to stick to the point R372 if you want to bash Corbyn and his Jew hatred start a thread, this one is about the abysmal Theresa May and her lack of vision.

So I'm fairly left politically and traditionally have voted Labour but I HATE Corbyn. Although she's a dud, I can deal with May for now.

R378 Jews have abandoned Labour in droves, because it's not just Corbyn who's the problem, it's the entire Labour hierarchy. Labour today is no different to UKIP or the BNP. You keep right on turning a blind eye to the fact that Labour is a reationary, authoritarian party and pretending that it's the Tories who are the cause of your and Britain's misfortune.

Labour have been fuck all in Britain for over a decade R380, Jews can leave in double droves and it won't make a bit of difference to anybody, the Tories meanwhile have run the country into the ground, but you keep worrying about where Jews fit in, that's the paramount concern of all humans....in your obsessed mind.

Fwiw I had already blocked R380 before this. Most likely he's a deplorable

[quote]but you keep worrying about where Jews fit in, that's the paramount concern of all humans....in your obsessed mind.

R381 You mean like Corbyn turning every single question about his and Labour's Jew hatred into "Muslims are being attacked too!" as if should be the paramount concern of all humans? Talk about obsessed!

Poor R381 is doesn't realize that he's no different to Farage, Batten or Walker. Labour has become "right-wing" pretending to be the "left-wing" scolding the "right-wing" for being "reactionary" and "regressive" while defending a "reactionary" and "regressive" dogma.

Fuck off you Right wing bores...I dont give a toss about Corbyn ( a waste of space ) or Jews ( or their faux defenders like you R384, R383 ) but I am aghast at what May is doing now. You can set up a 'Corbyn is a Jew hating cunt' thread elsewhere and I'll ignore it accordingly , just as I am going to ignore you here.

Don't see R382 and R385. No doubt Deplorables.

LOL R386 learned his skills right from Trump

"I didn't commit collusion!!! The real collusion was between Hillary and Russia!!"

[quote]Owen Jones I really like

LMFAO.

If anyone needed anymore proof that Britain has an antisemitism problem, look no further than this thread.

Can we leave the Jews alone and get back to the topic? Brexit.

[quote]What can I say, I don't like unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats in Brussels telling me how to live. I know that the further away you are from your government, the more authoritarian it becomes. I don't see why a trade agreement needs an army. I don't like that a trade organisation is trying to dictate laws, particularly on immigration and societal issues which we have enough troubles with before they come wading in. I don't like that they took billions of euros to pay out Greece, and then kept on funding them when they squandered that money because they knew that they'd get more, and I don't like that the UK's strong economy is being used as a payout machine to european countries who are only a part of the agreement to take the money. So yes. In my opinion it was worth it.

This taken from a British forum at reddit. I have wondered if any people felt this way, it's what I've been waiting to hear because I know I'd feel this same way if I lived in England.

But since the world is only about money, not about how we live our lives or whether we have a say over how we live our lives, the money aspect is paramount. Fuck liberty. Yes economy is important, money is important. But I remember clearly that the fuckwit Ronald Reagan won two terms asking Americans "are you better off now than you were four years ago". Greed is good became a popular saying as credit cards no one asked for began to stuff our mailboxes. And our jobs began disappearing at this same time. Unions destroyed and along with it the middle class.

Americans corporations have done nothing but become richer and richer and life for the 99% gets tighter and tighter. The brilliant strategies created by the corporate overlords for stealing wealth are flowing freely all over the planet. Anyone would be a fool to trust Brussels.

The people who keep trying to divert this thread into an anti-Corbyn debate are most likely Russian bots. For all the "I think Corbyn is in bed with Russia" nonsense, Putin wants May and Brexit to succeed, which is why RT posted that doctored video upthread showing May apparently rolling her eyes and walking out after Corbyn tabled a motion of no confidence in her. It's the Tories who largely wanted Brexit and Labour wanted to "remain and reform". So in this fight, Putin is with the Tories...

100 days till Brexit. How it feels to be British right now:

I voted remain and have watched with horror as the fallout from Brexit has unfolded. But, there's no one I'd rather lead us out of Europe - seeing as there's little chance of staying in, now - than Theresa May. I don't particularly like her nor her religion (root of all evil!), but she's doggedly slogged away at this for over two years and created a deal that was probably the best anyone was ever going to get. It could be so much worse; Corbyn? Misogynistic twat with dodgy history and unsavoury views. Johnson? As if! Rees-Mogg? He can go fuck himself with a rusty railing.

Okay, Vlad.

A new year, a new referendum. It’s only fair given the onslaught of propaganda that arose at the time of the preliminary referendum.

Now it’s time for the real vote. Winner take all!

Let the people of UK decide this time.

Why should there be only one vote and that’s the end of it forever. For something this big, now that the cards have been revealed, a new vote seems nessesary.

A new vote is looking more and more possible.

All than I can see is that the UK Conservative Party is way to the left wing of the US Democrat Party.Lots of things can still be done, including repealing Article 50. Watch what the cards that the UK Civil Service start to play if you want to see sabotage.

R395, it can't be boiled down to something as simplistic as "winner take all". What does that even mean? Even if there were to be another referendum, which is extremely dubious, it couldn't be dumbed down to "winner take all".

There are three basic options, and more if one wants to include the Norway scenario. 1) Stay in the Union. 2) Accept the deal on offer. 3) Take the hard exit. No choice would win a majority, and people would be unhappy because the infeasible option of "Magically create another deal" wouldn't be on the menu. Another referendum would only lead to more confusion, and both May and Corbyn know it.

[quote]No choice would win a majority

Not to quibble, r400, but in any three-way referendum question on Brexit, such as yours (stay in; accept current deal; hard exit), the majority response is always going to be “not the other two.” And this is the conundrum in general at the moment—there are just enough people (and politicians) wanting one of the three, and no clear majority for just one of the three, that the monster that Cameron let out of the bag is going to end up devouring the country before any clear path can be found.

What I find fascinating about all this is that every single hardline leaver has now decided to take a back seat and let May get on with the train wreck. I’m not even sure, though, that theirs is a thought-out strategy: I suspect it’s that they have absolutely no idea what comes next or where they want this to go or what they have to do to get there if they do. I’m actually not even sure that a Rees-Mogg and a Boris Johnson could actually sit in the same room for more than 10 minutes without wanting to throttle each other.

All of this is even further compounded by the slithery, ambiguous Corbyn, who shored up the Labour Party with yes wo/men to give the appearance of robust support but now finds himself with a parliamentary Labour Party made up of almost equal parts of leavers and remainers and mediocre tacticians who are waiting to see which way the wind will blow in their own specific electorates.

The only thing that’s clear in all of this is that the little ex-KGB thug Putin is laughing his little socks off. Regardless of how much of a hand he had in all of this, it’s clear that this fits perfectly with his plan to undermine the EU bloc and go back to a simpler world where it’s just Russia and one major power.

Could they do a two question poll instead of three? Like:

Question 1: Do you want to stay in the EU or do you want to leave the EU.

Question 2: If you want to leave the EU, do you want to accept the current deal or do you want a hard exit?

If a majority want to stay, it would be decided on Question 1 alone. If a majority want to leave, then which ever choice in Question 2 got the most votes would be the way they leave.

It wouldn't make any sense to have 1 choice to stay - and 2 choices to leave by different means.

R402, that would be seen as unfair by the sizable minority of voters who want to leave, but would rather remain than leave under a hard exit. This is why rank-preference voting has been suggested if there were to be a referendum. The issue simply as it currently stands simply doesn't lend itself to binary-choice voting.

I dislike the idea of a second referendum simply on principle; viz. governance by referendum is simply insanity, and more referendums will tend to normalize the idea. This is the political equivalent of giving the monkeys the run of the zoo. If Parliament is sovereign then it is incumbent on the leading party to form a responsible government, and responsibility means they should do their job and not toss tough issues over to be decided by the mob.

Has May expressed any openness to a second referendum?

Quite the opposite. She is dead-set against one, and rightfully so.

Given that we now know so much of what the Brexiteers pushed was simply lies - backed up by a ton of Russian social media propaganda that no realised was Russian propaganda! - surely it’s a reasonable ask to hold another vote since that first one was so flawed.

Otherwise the UK will soon break up - Scotland will definitely go and attempt to rejoin the EU - Ireland will find a better alternative - and what’s left will begin to resemble a real life, much larger version of Banksy’s Dismal-land installation...

And if there were another vote, what would stop that from being flawed and backed up by Russian propaganda? Why dive into the same sewer twice? If the first vote were flawed then the government could ignore the outcome, since it was non-binding.

And no, the UK will not soon break up. Extreme outcomes like that rarely happen.

r406 If Scotland vote to leave tomorrow their exit negotiations from the UK would make the EU ones look tame and short. We'd still be yelling about shares of the national debt in Christmas 2028.

R407 - the difference is - we know what the Russians are doing. And theoretically can really put the effort into exposing new activity and quashing bots, fact checking - and co-opting Facebook etc to actually help stop the bullshit.

There’s always gonna be people whose profound xenophobia and racism will mean vote Brexit anyway - but if you want a fair vote - then actually give the populace facts rather than propaganda.

A lot in the news today about how London’s mayor Saddiq Khan “politicized” the NYE fireworks display in favor of the EU.

As someone who visits here from NYC every Christmas/New Years I obviously don’t give a fuck. I am always irritated by the hyperbole spouted every goddamn year on the radio and other media about London being “the greatest city in the world” when it isn’t. No one city is. I’ve noticed London does seem to have been particularly overrun with tourists these past few weeks, even more so than all the other years I’ve been. I suspect a lot are coming over because God knows what will happen with Brexit and London might end up being a different place by next Christmas.

May is apparently a fan of RuPaul's Drag Race. I thought this was a joke at first, but it really is from her Twitter account.

Bish, i don't know her.

r411 Doubt it. "I haven't had a chance to catch up on..." is an extremely polite way of saying "I haven't seen a single episode but good for you for enjoying it".

And who the fuck is Ben? BenDeLaCreme? One of her homocon interns must've convinced her to write that if so.