Philadelphia Discussion Thread.

P.s does anybody else believe that Philly could be the next cool city? All the parts are there.

Also, what’s the gay scene like now?

What are the hot and trendy areas?

Philadelphia is a bit like an old haunted gothic mansion. I love it to death.

Philly has always had a deeply weird vibe for me. Can't explain it.

It’s the fact that I can’t explain it is what drives me bonkers.

Some call it the sixth borough of NYC.

Who does, r6?

It's not just R6. I've heard it, too. You can google "sixth borough philadelphia" if you're curious. It has everything that made NYC interesting up until the 80s, and it's close enough (90 minutes away) that you can take advantage of whatever cultural offerings NYC still has left.

I wouldn’t want to do that commute every day.

Philly here. We are not the 6th borough. Leave us alone.

I miss cold case. They need to reboot it.

Philadelphians and New Yorkers have a back and forth hate relationship, especially when it comes to sports.

GQ named Philly City of the Year.

I vote myself hottest of the HOT

My favorite shot in the Sixth Sense is the closeup in one of the Indian faces in the Logan Square fountain. I thought it illustrated Philadelphia’s spookiness perfectly. American Gothic.

And it is gentrifying very fast, I visited last year for the first time in five years and there were a dozen new skyscrapers I hadn’t seen before.

Omg I LOVE gritty. And now I’m craving a soft pretzel. I’m going to go back and visit when it warms up.

I'm sorry, R10, but you need to prepare yourselves: the Bourgeois Bohemians are coming for your city, and soon.

I’m surprised to hear that there are new skyscrapers.

One of my favorite restaurants is in Philly. Zahav. My best friend is from there and we hop a train every once and awhile from NYC to run around and go to places like Woody's and U Bar. I know, shitty middle brow gay bars - but we always end up having an absolute blast. In fact, if I ever have a nervous breakdown and flee Manhattan, I could easily live there (sorry, r10!). It kinda has everything: food, music, museums, architecture - all amazing.

I loathe Filthadelphia, always have, always will.

Philly is literally the worst things about Pittsburgh, NYC and Baltimore, mixed in with a lot of dumb, loud people.

Hard pass. Very hard pass, thanks.

You always hear about Chicago and the jazz, Detroit and Motown, NY and the theater, LA and the film scene, Nashville and Country music, etc...

But I never hear about Philadelphia’ s contribution to the arts. Yet there is tons of entertainment that came out of Philly. It all seems lost to the ages.

OP. I get there a lot for work. I know exactly the feeling you are talking about. Seriously. I can't believe you mentioned this. It's not gloomy or depressing or negative. It's something else. Have you ever watched a movie or an old tv show where the lighting is too low? It's like that. Something subconsciously registers that is hard to describe.

Leave it to self-absorbed New Yorkers to call Philly "a sixth borough."

American Bandstand with Dick Clark, R22.

Another one for the weird Philly vibe. Its a populated area that feels like a dead zone.

Glad that I am not alone.

Philadelphia used to be very religious back in the day. Every ethnic group had their own neighborhood church. Maybe what you're sensing are the echoes of that religious sobriety - life is work, life is suffering, life is painted in earth tones. Sure, we aren't particularly religious - or sober - today, but this city was not built by fun people.

Clearly the entire history of Philadelphia--historically and culturally--is lost on you schmoes.

Until 1985, the tallest building in Philadelphia was City Hall.. now it’s completely obscured by skyscrapers that have gone up mostly in the past 15 years. The 2nd Comcast tower was just completed, and there is talk that a third will be added, making it as large a complex as Rockefeller Center.

My absolute favorite spot in Philadelphia is the portals inside City Hall... the spooky atmosphere is peak Philadelphia.

They have a walk of fame with all the stars that come from there. More people need to know about Philly’s contributions.

Or maybe just me.

The Main Line suburbs are really beautiful and relatively inexpensive for the East Coast.

I had friends who went to Haverford/Bryn Mawr and Swarthmore and was surprised at how close to the the City Center they all were-- maybe 20 minutes on the train.

Talk about weird, if any of you recall the film, “12 monkeys” it’s got some horrific post-(or pre)apocalypse scenes in an enormous rundown building, the old metropolitan opera house on north broad. I toured it years ago when it was still an unsafe wreck, you had to wear a hard hat. NOW, lo and behold, it’s reopening as a deluxe refurbished entertainment center. Philly has likely changed more in the past fifteen years than it did the previous fifty

Philly was called the 6th borough back in the 00’s when Brooklyn was getting expensive, driving the poor hipsters out. They all came to Philly, hence the name.

Tell us more, Snoop. What else is going on there these days.

We used to have a lot more geographic based tips and discussions on this site with up-to-date and detailed info.

I do know visual artists who came to Philly from NYC because large spaces were (and if you’re not picky bout the neighborhood, still are) cheap

By the way, I notice that philly guys like to knock nyc guys down a peg. And I’m ok with that. I don’t think they do it on purpose. It’s just a matter of course.

I must be the only person who didn’t know that Philly was seriously gentrifying on a large scale. I find it all very surprising.

Philly is a hole. It will always be a hole. There are huge chunks of Philly that you don't want to walk through even in broad daylight. You certainly don't want to drive through them at night.

I'm from PA Dutch Country, and back when I was young, I drove two+ hours to Philly (thanks, Schuylkill Expressway!) for Giovanni's Room and the bars. Now, there's no reason to go there, unless you're a tourist and want to see the Liberty Bell, etc.

Mayor Goode was on the right track.

R40, please share the pleasure dome where you eventually made a life after being scarred by Philadelphia.

And share pictures.

[quote]Mayor Goode was on the right track.

Jesus Christ, how old are you??

OP and r23 I completely agree with you both, and can't put my finger on it either.

Philly is hipsterville. It's been gentrified from top to bottom. Gay families have swarmed in and taken over. It has a thriving arts community. It's almost unrecognizable today. Very, very trendy, and almost unaffordable to live. The old row homes have been gutted and are going for half a mil.

New condo tower a couple of blocks from Independence Hall

Philly is still reasonable for downtown and adjacent areas. You can get a nice 2-bedroom condo in the 300-500k range. NYC would be $1 million plus for the equivalent.

Why so I feel that was r40’s one and only visit to philly, to get a book from Giovanni’s room and skedaddle back to Pennsyltucky?

Fishtown, America's Hottest Neighborhood

That atmospheric angst that OP alludes to can best be experienced at Eastern State Penitentiary, a large old, haunted, abandoned prison built by the Quakers in 1829.

[quote]There are huge chunks of Philly that you don't want to walk through even in broad daylight.

that's frankly true of any large older city.

[quote]Mayor Goode was on the right track.

what? bombing the MOVE? you tipped your hand, troll. Off with you!

R44, you are partially correct. a LOT of philly is pricing out, and SUPER rapidly, i'd say point breeze is the worst example. Housing is now two hundred percent more what it was seven years ago.

R48, what forbes misses is that adjacent to fishtown is some of the worst heroin blight around. It's not even that dangerous per se, just destitute and depressing (and white, for the record, some of the poorest white neighborhoods on the east coast are here)

R49, I'm friends with one of the managers of the "terror behind the walls" fests that still happens in the Fall there, and he'd agree!

I just read that Philadelphia is the poorest city in the country in terms of per capita household income.

Pretty much. So increases in housing prices are Much less beneficial to the residents than in other big cities.

Let me jump in here...having been born in mt airy and raised in Cheltenham Township, one of the oldest inner ring suburbs. Philadelphia today is two cities: a vibrant downtown, stretching from old city to the univ of penn and from about spring garden to south st. Then you have other areas like east passyunk and northern liberties and fish town which have rapidly gentrified over the past decade or so. All of these areas are filled with educated and cultured people and great restaurants and bars. East Passyunk has highest concentration of great restaurants in the city. Even the Northeast has become a haven for great ethnic food. But it is still the poorest big city in the US and some of the suburbs (lower bucks and portions of Montgomery and Delaware) are filled with uninformed white trash. The city does not pretend to be New York. Also the gay bar scene is weak; however Tabu recently expanded and is fun and friendly

And ps Tabu is one of the most ethnically and age diverse gay bars I have ever been to, if not the most. It is good to see.

Moved there for college, lived for about 10 years. The idea of turning 30 there was terrifying, but I visit every year and will always have a soft spot for it.

It's a great starter city. If the idea of moving to NY, LA, or any of the BIG cities scares you, Philly is a great place to get a taste of city life.

The only other us cities that are as walkable and that you could survive in without a car are Boston, Chicago, New York and SF. And maybe DC. But DC is filled with boring drones so i discount dc.

Philly should be so lucky as to be a sixth borough of New York - in its wettest dreams! Philly is nothing more than a bigger, uglier Baltimore with more problems and less resources. The "heritage" of the Pennsylvania Dutch is laughable. Keep it!

R57 you are an idiot bar none. The heritage is Quaker, not Pennsylvania Dutch

Interesting comments...I have only been there twice and “weird vibe,” “gothic” and “haunted” all apply to the sense I had of Philadelphia while I was there. For reasons complely inexplicable to me.

The last time I was there was for a conference. I stayed at a hotel away from the venue hotel and so I had to walk five or six blocks in the morning and at night to get there—so creepy. The only other place I felt so insecure walking around at dawn was in Miami, and kind of similarly in Baltimore, although Baltimore and Miami just feel like places you’d get stabbed in the gut. Philadelphia felt eerie. I really don’t get it.

I live in D.C., and I’ve been to plenty of cities—NYC, LA, San Francisco, Chicago, Seattle, Portland, New Orleans, Dallas, London, Paris, Amsterdam, etc...only Philadelphia has given me such a weird otherworldly vibe and I really wanted to get outta there both times I visited.

r58 = dumb ass

The Dutch settled it first, Sh*t for Brains:

Europeans came to the Delaware Valley in the early 17th century, with the first settlements founded by the Dutch, who in 1623 built Fort Nassau on the Delaware River opposite the Schuylkill River in what is now Brooklawn, New Jersey. The Dutch considered the entire Delaware River valley to be part of their New Netherland colony. In 1638, Swedish settlers led by renegade Dutch established the colony of New Sweden at Fort Christina (present-day Wilmington, Delaware) and quickly spread out in the valley. In 1644, New Sweden supported the Susquehannocks in their military defeat of the English colony of Maryland. In 1648, the Dutch built Fort Beversreede on the west bank of the Delaware, south of the Schuylkill near the present-day Eastwick neighborhood, to reassert their dominion over the area. The Swedes responded by building Fort Nya Korsholm, or New Korsholm, after a town in Finland with a Swedish majority. In 1655, a Dutch military campaign led by New Netherland Director-General Peter Stuyvesant took control of the Swedish colony, ending its claim to independence. The Swedish and Finnish settlers continued to have their own militia, religion, and court, and to enjoy substantial autonomy under the Dutch. The English conquered the New Netherland colony in 1664.

^^^ Dude, you got it so wrong! The Pennsylvania Dutch are German, not Dutch like the language or people,it was a bastardization of Deutsch (German) and Deitsch ( the principal German dialect they spoke from the Palatine region) g Google or go home!

There you have it.

r53, you are correct about there being two cities, rich and educated, and poor and (barely) high school educated. TABU expanding makes it into the Applebee's of gay bars. I'll admit though that I like the roof deck

and yeah, "pennsylvanian dutch" has about as much to do with present day Philadelphia and Piet Stuyvesant does with present day NYC.

“Duidisk was pronounced Diets in the Holland area and Deutsch in what is now Germany. When people from the Netherlands and Germany emigrated to America between 1600 and 1800, they both referred to their language as something that sounded to the English as Dutch. That is why in this period both people from Germany and the Netherlands were referred to as Dutch. Probably to the English Dutch and Germans were all the same, after all the Dutch Republic was still very young and it's German roots were obvious.

“It is only later that a specific distinction between Germans and Dutch was made. Nowadays do not dare to call a Dutch person German, for the Dutch have developed a very specific culture of their own and do not at all feel related to Germany anymore.”

This is interesting to me because when I visited the Netherlands a couple of years ago, much of what I read about it compared it to Germany primarily. The comparisons included these characteristics:

—Dutch see Germany as their “big brother” in a lot of ways—their founding nation to which their roots belong, but older and more conservative with greater economic resources. More established in short.

—Germany is famously regimented and orderly and systems-based, whereas the Netherlands is more casual.

—Germans, for example, have an education system that is all about people learning and falling into place and testing well, whereas the Dutch priortize individual life paths but participating collectively in society. In the Netherlands, children don’t have homework until age 10 and they are encouraged to play but also to participate like “little adults” in the household, being included in decision making and also responsible for a share of the housework alongside their parents. They’re generally said to be acculturated to find their best place in society and adult life based on natural interests and aptitudes rather than based on prestige and competitiveness, contrary to the more capitalistic German culture.

—Their languages reflect their thinking: German is predicated on strict rules and pronounced as it is written, whereas Dutch is “lazy” even according to Dutch people. It allows more for happenstance and irregularity.

—I read somewhere that the Netherlands is basically the slacker, liberal, hippie-ish younger sibling of Germany, and based on my experience there that felt like an apt description. But they’re also starkly different than, for example, the US and France. They are highly socialist and are fine with paying high taxes when it means a stellar free healthcare and education system, sound infrastructure, etc. All for the common good—so absolutely nothing like the United States, and more like France in that sense than like its sibling Germany.

Some of my family were Pennsylvania Dutch, and I think their work ethics were more Germanlike than Dutch (Holland)-like. Those sides of the family were regimented and hardworking as one might imagine prototypical American colonists to have been—little time for playing around, serious about everything in life.

As someone upstream said, Philadelphia is, by far, the poorest of the 10 largest US cities. Philadelphia County, which is contiguous with the city of Philadelphia, is the poorest county in Pennsylvania. Since much of western PA is like a scene out of Deliverance, one can only imagine the destitution in Philly, and it shows in life expectancy, disease, rampant drug addiction, crappy schools, perpetual unemployment and just about every other metric of societal problems.

Philly boosters tend to overlook these facts, as they point to glossy new buildings and bustling cafes/bars/restaurants, ignoring the festering sore around them.

I liked Philly, only been once, but it was “quant” compared to NYC. I remember the streets I was on felt narrow and winding, I believe they were cobblestone. Couldn’t tell you where I was. But it felt small, almost like a movie set, which I thought was sweet. Of course, I have no desire to return. Their mascot alone makes me not want to.....

Quaint dammit

[quote]you are correct about there being two cities, rich and educated, and poor and (barely) high school educated

Isn't this basically true about most major cities in the north and Midwest?

I LOVE Cold Case.

And the opening credits of PHILADELPHIA are magic.

To the glass housed New Yorkers who toss rocks at Philly, why do you avoid discussing the South Bronx?

They still have those hot video stores? Yummm!

I lived in Philly for a few years 2000-2005. Aside from the insane racial tension, I loved it. Lived in the museum area. Close to beaches in the summer, close enough to NYC. Great walking city, easy to zip around. The people are proud and plucky. Great restaurants, fun gay scene. I had a hell of a good time there.

If it's known for cheese-steaks, it's probably not worth remembering.

Btw, has the occasional Philly Top poster weighed in?

[QUOTE]If it's known for cheese-steaks, it's probably not worth remembering.

What’s New York known for?

R74, it’s known for cheesesteaks the way other big cities are ‘known’ for pizza or bagels. It’s schtick. Philadelphia is a great restaurant town. Stephen Starr and Jose Garces have a bunch of places here, several that have been given outposts in places like - believe it or not - NYC.

[quote] Philadelphia is a bit like an old haunted gothic mansion.

Charles Addams lived there in Germantown. Loved the grand residences there. Very, well, Charles Addams.

I grew up 20 miles from Manhattan. I was there constantly with my family from as early as I can remember. After I went away to prep school I spent 4 years in NYC getting a degree and 5 years after that starting my life.

Then a relationship move took me to Philadelphia and I was, to say the least, wary. Well the relationship didn’t survive, but my life here did. And it has turned out to be a wonderful city to make a life.

I still spend a at least a couple days a month in NYC and do 2 or 3 week long visits a year there, so I never completely left it behind. But if for some reason I never returned, there is more than enough in Philadelphia to keep me completely engaged.

Alot of downlow Muslim men...weird

Why do you need to go to NYC? I liked Philly. If I lived there I wouldn't bother making regular trips unless I had to for work.

It's a dump that closes its doors around 9pm every night. It will never be NYC and knows it.

I’ve lived in both Philly and NYC and love both cities. They have a similar vibe to me. I chose nyc because the people seem more interesting to me, but i could be (and was) perfectly content in Philadelphia.

Are people in NYC still interesting?

R81, I’m in traffic jams in Philadelphia at 11 o’clock at night during the week. Sometimes I wish it was the ghostown in your head.

R80, I do go to NYC in part to work, but also for fun. I have friends there who visit me here and I reciprocate. But I also travel to a lot of other places. I guess this is a topic for a new thread, but do most people not travel much?

People misrepresenting cities is not confined to this Philadelphia thread. Every time I read stuff on here about other places, half the posters sound like they got their information from a 1973 Word Book Encyclopedia.

That's a good question, R83. Some time may have passed since R82 lived in New York. According to the discussion on our other New York threads, the gays, creatives, and weirdos are increasingly hard to find there. One imagines that a more under-the-radar place like Philadelphia would be attractive to these types.

Is Pennsyltucky as bad as it's cracked up to be? We had almost decided on Asheville/adjacent, but with all of the recent disasters have been looking at properties around Gordonville. We're retired, from LA, but my stepfather was from South Philly & I went to school in Washington & miss the four seasons.

Stars from Philly:

Boys to Men

Pink

The Gyllianhalls

The Barrymores

Will Smith

Patty Labelle

Michael Landon

David Lynch

Bob Sagat

M. Night Shyamala

Grace Kelly

Bradley Cooper

Reminds me of the old NYC - a little gritty, mix of incomes, not obsessed with money, crime (mainly in poor areas), and a lot of people getting by doing what they want. Great restaurants and I love the gayborhood- compact, lots of options, quaint side streets, great food, unpretentious people. Definitely have to separate Center City from the outer ring. Center City is more vibrant and dense than Boston. But its surrounded by some very poor areas - though a lot of these are gentrifying fast. Definitely a top 5 city to live in. Not glamorous but extremely livable and not insanely expensive. Great transportation to/from some beautiful suburbs as well - can live in beautiful old house with a yard and be in the gayborhood in 20 minutes.

A few more years of climate change and winters won’t be a concern.

That girl from Cold Case seems to have done that show and nothing else.

Her face got a little wacky in the last couple of seasons. But she was likeable.

I live in Bensalem, I grew up in Northeast Philadelphia, I LOVE NYC and have spent a great deal of time up there and all over NJ, what I live about Philly is it's grittiness, see Rocky, and it's proximity to NYC and Atlantic City, in some ways, like another poster said, it's like the grittiness of NYC in the 70s and early 80s, before I was born but have heard about

You also can't spit without bumping into a NYC ER in Philadelphia, So many bosses and co-workers at my jobs were from NYC, my current boss in Philadelphia actually has a second job going up to Staten Island two days a week as part of his delivery business up there

Philly is, obviously, more linked to NYC/NJ than the rest if Pennsyltucky, like NYC, Nj borders us so South Jersey is considered a suburb of Philadelphia while New York got North Jersey down to Trenton, which is only a half hour drive from where I live at in Bensalem.

So is Atlantic City all in ruin and disrepair?

Haven’t heard much about that place lately.

R92 business dropped considerably in AC after Pennsylvania got their own casino's, in Bensalem, PA, where I live JUST outside if Northeast Philly, we have the Parx, which is always crowded and whose parking lot if full New Jersey and New York license plates along with Pennsylvania of course

I think the Parx took a LOT of business away from AC not just from Philiadelphia people but NYC people as well as The Parx is closer to NYC, just 70 miles, than AC, 120 miles from NYC, is

That 'vibe' you get is decay. A lot of the old Eastern cities have it. It's in the buildings and the infrastructure since so many of these cities are experiencing a rebirth of youth and vitality.

I loved Philly when I lived there. The Mummer's parade, South Street, Center City, Catherine Street (artists will know why) and the Marketplace. Food was amazing, everywhere and I gained weight. Couldn't live there for long and it had a lot to do the people. I both loved and hated them. I'm somewhat conventional and conservative in my behavior, so it was somewhat of a shock to experience the Philly attitude of being hyper friendly, and very very open. They also have strip bars everywhere....never saw so many and I was in the military and all around the world.

What’s the job market like?

Another part of the unique character of Philadelphia is the number of historicist architectural styles you’ll still find in Center City. It gives downtown a more eclectic, museum like atmosphere than say, Midtown Manhattan or Chicago.

Arch Street Church, a favorite

Reading Terminal

Rotunda Building at Ritz Carlton

Academy of Music

Great IG of Philly photos

No main line?

Mainline is its own thing, it’s not really philly, but adjacent.

Chris Matthews.

Philly was a huge influence on David Lynch so that creepiness isn’t imagined.

[QUOTE]Stars from Philly:

You left out Kevin Hart.

Worst slums and crime this side of Edinburgh/Chicago Sadly, like SF, human vomit, stool and homelessness all over.. Baltimore and Pittsburgh are prettier, and Baltimore has a real harbor.

You can’t compare Baltimore with Philadelphia. Baltimore IS the harbor (and crime).

Scorsese used the Academy of Music on Broad Street for the opening scenes of Age of Innocence.

So why hasn’t Scorsese given Philadelphia the full treatment? He’s done everywhere else.

The Union League

Ahem

[QUOTE]Sadly, like SF, human vomit, stool and homelessness all over.

Lies. The problems with homelessness and public defecation are nowhere near the level of San Francisco. Philly has twice the population and yet it actually has less homeless people than SF—that tells you everything.

I was actually shocked how clean Philadelphia was when I was there last year. I even took a photo.

Boathouse Row

Pearl S. Buck's one time home is for sale.

R114 Shocked at how clean a city is. Has it come to this.

R115 is that the development by Edward Norton's grandfather?

This is why Center City Philadelphia is clean now. 7 days a week with hundreds of uniformed workers. There is also an separate crew on South Street/Headhouse and Chestnut Hill.

I’ve lived in Philly all my life...it’s true that it used to be a very dirty city, up through the 80s and 90s, but that is totally different today. It really has had a nice renaissance. When I was younger, I wanted to leave; now, I’m looking to move closer to center city. It’s true that there are some dicy neighborhoods still, but that’s all changing. I had to laugh that houses in Fishtown we’re going for 300k plus. It was such a dump when I was young!

The rents and mortgages are reaching NYC levels, thanks to all of the building and rehabbing. Real estate taxes are going through the fucking roof. Damned yuppie scum.

R120 they’re still nowhere close to NYC, especially property taxes.

You can’t talk about architecture and Philadelphia without mentioning Frank Furness, one of the most visionary and original architects in America. The YouTube station below has tons of Philly videos to check out.

Philadelphia has awesome architecture. But I think much of Furness is overrated. He just built a lot of expensive projects/homes where he could indulge in fancifulness. City Hall is stunning as are the colonial-era streets in Society Hill. One of the best cities for architecture in America spanning 17th to 21st centuries.

[QUOTE]Stars from Philly:

The late great Peter Boyle was also from Philly.

Born and raised here but have a strange love/hate relationship with my home town. We're die-hard sports fans and that gives us a common bond a lot of the time but a lot of people I grew up with who never lived anywhere else are Trump supporters and I can't be friends with them anymore which is fine. I escaped to L.A. a long time ago and lived in NYC as well but somehow ended up living back in Philly. Someone else I know that moved away and came back described Philly as being in a vortex and that always stuck with me.

I like their cream cheese.

I lived there from 18-27. Visiting over the holidays. I'd (probably) never move back, but will always have a soft spot for me.

It's a big city and a small town all in one.

it's got some flaming queens

Agree R127 - big city and small town. In a way it’s an early “suburban” city in that instead of building vertically like NY or Chicago, in Philly they built miles upon miles of rowhouses horizontally. So outside of Center City, it’s a low rise city. Many of those neighborhoods were abandoned in midcentury white flight like Detroit and descended into poverty. But many are gentrifying now. One of the reasons there is so much poverty in the city (and why housing is relatively cheap) is the oversupply of miles of rowhouses. You can live in a 3-4 BR rowhouse with easy access to the subway - but in a bad neighborhood - for less than $1,000.

Though Center City Philly is like a mini-Manhattan in terms of density, it’s only about 250,000 people. The majority of people live in rowhouse neighborhoods which each have a distinct vibe and where you’re likely to know your neighbors - if not necessarily talk to them. A lot of these rowhouse neighborhoods have gentrified - but there still miles of cheap or abandoned rowhouses that provide dirt cheap housing for the poor (resulting in far less homelessness than many cities - though you will still see beggars on the street because of extreme poverty)

How dangerous is living in Philly?

Where would you go in Philadelphia to get the best Philly cheesesteak?

I'm from Lancaster County originally and moved to Philly in 2002. I've seen this city change at a rapid pace, some for better, some for worse. I'm a hotel concierge and a parttime tour guide of the historic district, so I get to meet a lot of nice visitors and I make sure they leave our town very impressed.

There's no denying Philadelphia is a national punchline, but that's for people who haven't visited since the 80's. Today you will find a major cosmopolitan feeling in our fair city.

The people can be awful. I mean, AWFUL. Especially the residents who've lived here their whole lives. But once you break through that tough veneer of "Broad Street Bullys," you will find lifelong loyal friends.

And you can't pick a better geographic center. To go out home to beautiful Lancaster Country, the most beautiful countryside on earth, hop on Amtrak for an hour from 30th Street Station. New York is incredibly easy and accessible multiple ways, by bolt/megabus for dirt cheap or by Amtrak to travel in luxury. Washington and Baltimore are fun for weekend trips. History buffs (like me) love our unparalleled place in American history right here, and Gettysburg and Valley Forge are not far trips.

My commute to work is 20 minutes door-to-door and I'm on the subway for 3 minutes.

Shopping in Center City - now that's kind of a bummer. We have GREAT independent boutiques in Old City, Midtown Village and Antiques Row. Walnut Street is our shopping strip in Rittenhouse, but all the high end luxury stores have been vacuumed up King of Prussia Mall, the largest retail mall in the world, which is a fucking pain in the ass to get to without a car. No train to KOP - they want to keep the Philadelphia riff raff out.

Art is ubiquitous around the town. Isaiah Zagar keeps South Philly beautiful. There's a gorgeous Keith Haring mural right near my house. The PMA, Barnes, Rodin and PAFA are all national treasures of are museums. The Philadelphia Orchestra, is and always will be, the pinnacle of great orchestras.

I love this city. I hate this city. I love this city. It's a bipolar town. When it's good, it's great, when it's bad, it's the seventh circle of Hell.

This city is just my size and energy. I could never live in New York when I have such a good life here. New York is too big, too many people, just as the french say "de trop." But I love visiting New York easily and cheaply for a weekend getaway at a friend's apartment in Queens.

Also, I hate cheesesteaks. Only tourists order cheesesteaks. The Philly "locals" go to is a pork sandwich with sharp provolone and broccoli raab.

Our gay scene is waning. Since I've moved here we've lost the bars Sisters, Bump, Pure (it's now a straight mostly douchy after hourse club), Key West, The Inn Philadelphia and more. The "gayborhood" is hardly gay anymore. Thanks, straight tourists.

We're a unique city, that's for sure, and I agree with OP - it's hard to figure out. We do have a creepy vibe too, but I think that's because of our revolutionary history. Surely anywhere you walk in Old City, you're walking on 250 year old graves. And they're still finding new ones.

Great post, R132. You forgot Bartram's Garden - like walking back into the 17th century.

I loved and hated that town. One or two things I disagree with, however.....Lancaster county as the 'most' beautiful countryside? Uh, no. It's nice, truly, but I've been all over this country and it's not the 'most' beautiful.

Also the orchestra....it's good, and acknowledged as great pretty often, but the pinnacle? Uh, no. The BSO, NYP, etc. would have issue with that hyperbole.

This is what I disliked most about Philly's people - the need to make everything about it the 'greatest.' Some humility in that town would go a long way. The climate is also pretty awful - the humid, disgusting summers with inversions make it unbearable to be outside. The drinking water is also very very bad, and they do not take care of their parks and green spaces....which are sorely lacking.

[QUOTE]This is what I disliked most about Philly's people - the need to make everything about it the 'greatest.' Some humility in that town would go a long way.

That’s rich coming from a New Yorker.

Sadly, I'm not from NYC, R134, but thanks for the compliment.

Typical Philly statement, btw. Thanks for the memories.

You’re a bum, I don’t care where you’re at or where you’re from. If I could I’d give you a smack right across your jerkoff face.

Good dick to be found

R137 is absolutely correct!

I wonder if I ever bent over for you R138

R133=Crumb Bum

Actually, lot of working class tops in philly

Philly does have some of the hottest gay guys in the country. Whole packs of them.

Must be from LA then. Let’s not open that can of worms.

I wouldn't go that far R142, but they are pretty good in bed. Looks and skill are not the same.

Chestnut Hill, Mount Airy, and Germantown have some gorgeous homes.

[quote]The late great Peter Boyle was also from Philly.

Norman Fell from THREE'S COMPANY

Jeanette MacDonald, opera singer and film actress

Ethel Waters, entertainer, actress

Bill Cosby, actor, comedian, serial rapist.

Nobody’s mentioned me yet, bitches!

I recall how pretty that song was as a kid watching TV. I guess I’m gay.

Here’s a little bit of Philly

R148, she was fucking flawless. Is that the famed Transatlantic accent I hear, or an upper-class Philadelphia accent?

Totally midatlantic.

Bucks County, Pa, right outside of Philadelphia is weird

My uncle grew up in Bristol in Lower Bucks and he hates the Phillies and roots for the New York Yankees because his dad used to take him up there to see them play every year as a child.

New Hope is in Central Bucks and is dead smack in the middle between the war between Philly vs. NYC, the Pocono Mountains as well, Philly people bitch about the New Yorkers everywhere and vice versa

Bucks co is also ground zero deplorable in the area

Bucks County voted for Hillary.

And Obama before her.

Oh wait, it was a very narrow victory.

The affluent suburbs in Delaware, Montgomery and Chester made a huge swing toward the Democrats, though.

Does anyone know the name of the blue-grey stone used in many old Delaware Valley homes? I always thought it was the loveliest thing about the region.

slate

It’s the people. An odd superiority complex fueled by their city’s inferiority to the NYC metro area.

it's the slate

The stone houses in Philly area are uniquely beautiful. Though New England has a lot of pretty old houses, most are wood sided. I think the Philly area’s old stone houses are some of the country’s most beautiful architecture.

lovely

Gorgeous.

I haven't been to Philly in about 10 years. They say it's a great city for walking but I found the walking experience not very pleasant.

Too many parking garages, parking lots, skyscrapers disconnected to the street, highways: that doesn't make for a very nice experience at sidewalk level.

The Penn Plaza area next to City Hall was depressing as was that shopping mall at the base of those blue skyscrapers. Market Street was a disaster. The Logan Circle area was awful, more suburban than urban...quite a trek to get to the the Art Museum. The walk to the 30th Street station was eerie...the streets felt so desolate. The urban fabric felt disjointed.

I'm sure a lot has changed since I visited... but that was my impression.

There are a lot of sketchy and ugly stretches of the city. Though it’s steadily improved in the past 10 years, there are still parts that are ugly or unsafe.

I always find Society Hill, the gayborhood and Rittenhouse Square great walking neighborhoods. Beautiful architecture and good mix of retail, bars and restaurants. But as you get north of Market, there are some ugly areas - like near the Greyhound terminal and near the Vine St Expressway. However, even Market has improved with a whole redevelopment of Market St East replacing the pawn shops and discount clothing stores with high end apartments, organic supermarkets and restaurants.

[quote]However, even Market has improved with a whole redevelopment of Market St East replacing the pawn shops and discount clothing stores..

When I was there 10 years ago it was like a 1970s time warp. It felt like 14th Street circa 1978.

Please share your favorite Philly restaurants

Here are a few fixes for the some of the stuff above:

NYC and Philadelphia weekenders are not the Sharks and the Jets. I live in Philadelphia and have a place in Bucks. I have lots of NYC friends and lots of 'Just Bucks' friends and lots of Philadelphia friends. Everybody gets along perfectly well. I have had parties in both Philadelphia and Bucks County with a spicy mix of the 3 populations. There was no fight at the gym.

The superiority complex thing has been floated a couple of times here. I really don't get it. NYC is a 'Global' city and Philadelphia is a 'National" city. Who doesn't accept that? That distinction creates assets and liabilities for both places that people with an intimate knowledge of them will certainly understand. This may just be a thing for the car and bar crowd that kill a weekend here or there boomeranging between the two cities.

As has been pointed out repeatedly, the decades long overhaul of Center City, University City, South Philadelphia, Fairmount, Northern Liberties, Fishtown, etc., have rendered the 'Rand McNally Atlas' style comments above as pretty irrelevant. I think there are a lot of first time jobbers and college kids from years ago carrying around decades old perceptions. I probably would have disliked Philadelphia in 1985 as well. It's 2018.

Local government in Bucks County was a proud part of the Blue Wave! The local Deliverance types in the upper county are still here, but more progressive minds are voting and being elected.

OMG! I'm actually at my BC place today and just looked up from my diatribe to see 8 deer munching on the grass not ten feet from my window! Really sweet. As long as they don't run into my car later tonight.

Cheers.

To give those unfamiliar with Philly's food scene an idea, here is an Eater article from this week touching on some places that have just opened. It's a tip of the iceberg that shows what's happening in the restaurant world in the town.

R163, you were in ONE part of the city 10 years ago.

Thanks for adding nothing to the conversation.

So much of the new restaurant scene is in farther flung sections of the city that have been gentrified. I’ve tried a few - but really like just going to the gayborhood where there are a ton of great options. Have a few drinks, walk around, have a great meal on 13th st and a nightcap at Tabu. Of course, a lot of the new neighborhoods are a quick and cheap taxi or Uber away - so it shouldn’t discourage you.

As much as Kensington, Fishtown and Northern Liberties have some interesting places, it can get a little unsafe just a block or two away. East Passyunk is much safer and the restaurants are better and more abundant there in my opinion

[quote]you were in ONE part of the city 10 years ago. Thanks for adding nothing to the conversation.

I was describing my impression of Center City. Something wrong with that?

Yeah R169 - I believe that is what is called in football “unnecessary roughness”. Alternatively, just plain old Philly attitude.

OOH, R160, my empire sofa came from the Cliveden estate. Hard as a rock.

r171, it sounds like you were here on business for a few hours and walked along the JFK Blvd. corridor and saw none of the city. It is walkable, very, very walkable. Did you go to Society Hill? Old City? Rittenhouse? The Historic District?

No, you were in one teeny tiny area. For an hour it sounds like.

[quote] Alternatively, just plain old Philly attitude.

And you sound like a pearl-clenching prisspot.

ADDYTOOD!

It might be walkable, but don't try to park there.

Parking WARS

Don’t even TRY to own a car in this city. Tickets, break ins, dents, scratches, no place to park.....

rapes, murders, and cars

Love the Samson st gym....good times and been around forever

Agree R181 - another thing that makes it seem like old time NYC. Bathhouses, porn theaters, working class married guys, ethnic and income diversity. Also seems like a less Grindr-based city - people meet in bars and neighborhoods - and sex clubs. (Perhaps because there aren’t as many flat stomached torsos in Philly)

No one goes to bathhouses in Philly

Philadelphia seems like the kind of place where you can get away with wearing fabulous coats.

Oh MY, R180

I lived in Philly during the beginning of Grindr. It is absolutely a grindr town.

Philly also has San Fran-level aggressive panhandlers.

[QUOTE]Philly also has San Fran-level aggressive panhandlers.

And New York doesn’t? LA? Chicago? Every major city has aggressive panhandlers.

Since when R187? I always found that if you avoided eye contact you were fine. Most aggressive I've ever experienced were London.

I don’t think uniquely aggressive. I think like DC, tourist areas can get scam artist beggars. Then there are a lot of desperate multigenerational poor - “underclass” - like Chicago or Detroit who are totally outside of society (but unlike in other cities, are less likely to be homeless because of the abundance of cheap and abandoned housing).

Compared to San Francisco’s largely white drug addict, drifter, mentally ill beggars, I think Philadelphia’s are more likely to just be poor people of color who never had a chance.

R180 what a stupid thing to say as Philadelphia has been a PREDOMINATELY Black ran city since the 80s, the Goode era, in every aspect, with just a few blips here and there

And the hobos are annoying AND persistent and come in EVERY color except Asians, I've never seen a homeless Asian person begging for change...

Hobos, R191? That’s actually cute. Like what we dressed up as for Halloween when we were older and lazier.

And don’t you think Ed Rendell would find offense being referred to as ‘a blip’? He was DA for years before becoming mayor for two terms.

I’m a Philadelphian... travelled all over the world. The most times someone has tried to rob me was Paris. Multiple scams (luckily I was wel,briefed on them). But I still love Paris.

Another Philadelphian here, hassled more in Rome than in my hometown.

R191 is a fucking lowlife. You think the “hobos” are bad, pal they’re nothing compared to what I’ll do if we ever cross. They’ll be wiring your jaw shut at the nearest emergency room.

R195 what stupid cunt? Pointing out the FACTS that Philadelphia is a Black ran city, for the most part since the early 80s? I didn't say that was a bad thing as I've voted for many Black candidates in Philadelphia but it's true

Or the hobo thing?

Go fuck yourself either way

Black run? Could have fooled me

[quote]King of Prussia Mall, the largest retail mall in the world, which is a fucking pain in the ass to get to without a car. No train to KOP - they want to keep the Philadelphia riff raff out.

I only did it once, but I know I took the train from somewhere out there to Center City, after spending the morning at KOP Mall. How far is the actual mall from the train station?

[quote]The climate is also pretty awful - the humid, disgusting summers with inversions make it unbearable to be outside.

Boston and New York can be horribly hot and humid, too, but yes, I've been in Phila in the summer when I did not want to go outside.

r191 Oh, fucking DEAR.

Just face it, it’s a chocolate city. We all accept it. Move on.

R198, SEPTA's Manayunk/Norristown rail line ends at Elm Street in Norristown, which is approximately 5 miles from KofP Mall, and about 6 miles the Norristown Transportation Center, the terminus of the High Speed Line from 69th Street in Upper Darby. Could you have taken a cab from either one of these stops?

There is talk of extending the Norristown Rail line to KofP, but it won't be happening in the near future.

[QUOTE]Just face it, it’s a chocolate city. We all accept it. Move on.

Then that’s bad news for those who want to push the rightwing notion that black people can’t run government properly, because “chocolate” mayor Michael Nutter is the one responsible for the renaissance you see today.

Amazing times at the Samson st gym - one of the last great, labyrinth like gay sex clubs in the NE

There's a lot of "whataboutism" going on here.

Just sayin'.

There is no public transport to King of Prussia. KOP was built and thrived as an anti-city location completely dependent on car traffic. It continues through today with tons of corporate offices choosing to locate there despite no public transport. It’s made for the anti-city suburban/exurban population - many of whom would never think of going into the city.

Admittedly, it’s partially based on avoiding Philly taxes. But it’s also symbolic of the anti-city attitude of most of the suburbs. Many suburbs intentionally make it difficult to access from the city without a car because of the fear of the city (which largely meant black people). Similar to the attitude of many US suburbanites to most cities in the 1970s. But outside of Philly, so many people still choose to have nothing to do with the city - resulting in sprawl that reaches out to Lancaster and the Amish country at this point. They work in KOP and commute to the McMansion developments far away from the city.

[quote] Many suburbs intentionally make it difficult to access from the city without a car because of the fear of the city (which largely meant black people).

wow, what an interesting idea. . .

r206 maybe people just wanted to be safe. There was a black exodus out of Detroit, too.

Agree R206. But that’s the trade off - complete isolation and absence of stimulation and diversity for the sake of safety above all else (of course there is both Cheesecake Factory and Applebee’s.) There is also irrational, media-hyped fear - to the point that people think they can’t drive into the city, park their car in a lot in Center City and walk someplace without getting mugged. Very much the NYC suburban mentality of the 70s and 80s - some truth but more media-indices fear as the majority of crime happens in poor, non-tourist areas.

"But it’s also symbolic of the anti-city attitude of most of the suburbs."

Not so much anti-city as it is resentment of the political drones hanging out in City Hall and every other department of city government, doing nothing and getting paid big money to do nothing. It's almost as if it's an exclusive club and only the politically connected can join and partake of the bounty of taxpayer dollars. This includes shenangans like DROP and shit like the missing 30Million. And lets not forget the entitled royalty of City Hall, the Blackwells, the Fattahs, the Rizzos, and the Tartagliones, who think the city of Philadelphia is their personal fiefdom to be milked for as much cash as humanly possible, whole dynasties of families who have been sucking at the Philly teat for a mighty long time. Have any of these people ever held a job in private industry? Political patronage exists everywhere, but not to the extent and in-your-face, the "I dare you to do anything about it" way it does in Philly.

Sorry, but being able to walk to a restaurant or bar does not compensate for the extra taxes, extra insurance premiums and parking fees to live in their city. If I need to go into the city, I can walk across the street to the SEPTA line and be there in 40 minutes.

The city that has Independence Hall, Society Hill, the Rittenhouse Square neighborhood, walkable streets, historic sites, and uber-hot Mike Schmidt will always be tops with me.

R210 - yes, lived there on and off in the 90s and 00s, sense of waste and corruption is Everywhere (like most East coast second tier cities). Very insular place but still has a sense of fun NYC no longer has. And way cheaper.

R212 it's the second biggest cuty on the East coast after NYC and the 6th largest in the country

Hardly "second tier"

It's bigger than Boston for Godsakes

Or San Fran

As a hardcore Democrat and Philly-phile, the corruption in the city is an issue. If they could get corruption (primarily in the form of Dem-machine patronage) and the budget under control, Philly could live up to its potential. But with the high taxes required to fund the pension and benefits handed out over decades, it is unlikely to be fixed. They could use a Bloomberg-type to come in and shake things up. It is the problem with one party control - even if Democratic. Not as bad as Chicago/Illinois, but similar political/financial history means a lot of similar issues.

Kinny is pretty good