My dad is in a "deep sleep"

I suggest you see his doctor and ask what it means. Something is lost in translation through your sister.

OP I have no medical advice.

Just wanted to tell you I'm sorry to hear this. These kinds of things are not easy under any circumstance, no matter how old our parent is.

I wish peace to your and your family, and the best to your dad.

Feeding tubes for someone that age are inhumane. Your father should be in hospice care and not forced to live just so doctors can make money. I’d fight tooth and nail to ease your father out of this world and not subject him to further treatment.

*YOU and your family

I’m sorry you’re going through this, OP. I’m in a similar situation.

The doctors and hospitals go to ridiculous lengths to keep people alive these days. The cynical side of me thinks they do it to make more money. On the other hand, it’s like society has been brainwashed. Families don’t seem to blink twice anymore before agreeing to the most pointless, agonizing and expensive treatments imaginable. It’s like a delusional instinct for people; keep defying death even in the most hopeless cases. No one thinks twice about it. Why?

I firmly believe we are living in a golden age of elder abuse.

A feeding tube is not the end of the world, you need to find out exactly what is wrong with your father and educate yourself correctly. Hospitals aren't out to make a ton of money, in fact, I bet the hospital owns a hospice which they could refer your dad to and keep it in the family so to speak, if they wanted to.

A medically induced sleep is usually because of brain trauma, it so what it has to due with lung fluid, I can't guess. Clearly you don't know enough yet to make an educated judgement call.

I cynically believe the hospital wants to keep him there as long as possible because they're making a lot of money off him

I don't know that's a true motivation, but you should have a frank conversation with his doctor about his prognosis; when my mom was on the down slide, the doctors spoke honestly, if very diplomatically, about her chances (basically none), but you could tell they were very wary about "pulling the plug" (so to speak). When we candidly told them that we didn't want to artificially extend her life, they helped make that happen.

I agree that hospitals go to ridiculous lengths to extend life, but how are they to know who's going to sue them for letting granny croak or some crazy right-to lifer type? Be candid with them & I bet they'll be candid with you. Good luck!

OP, ICU nurse here. FYI the hospital doesn't want to keep him alive because they're making money off of him, and if the case is hopeless the doctors are hoping that the family will let your father go peacefully... but that's not their decision. The doctors are legally bound to let the family know what the alternatives are, so if they offered a feeding tube then they should also have offered hospice care.

So this comes down to who has the legal power to make medical decisions for your father, and what his wishes were. If your sister is there and you're not, well, if she has the power to make medical decisions then it's her choice, all you can do is talk with her about what your father would have wanted. If he's not going to recover, and your father made it clear that he didn't want to live on bedbound and helpless, then reinforce that with your sister and keep doing so until she gets it. If she's the one there on the spot, she's probably feeling overwhelmed and obligated to "Save Dad".

So, can Dad be saved? Does he want to live on at any cost? Are you part of the decision-making process? Those are the questions you need to start with.

I’m so sorry. I went through this with my 67 year-old mother last December-January and her 88 year-old uncle in July and August. It’s hard. I could offer some thoughts based on those experiences, but mainly I am really sorry.

You need to speak to his doctor and get more detailed information regarding his condition. Then, you need to research that condition to become better acquainted with the issues and ask more relevant questions to this doctor. Finally, you need to ask for all your options and get their recommendations before making any decisions.

Also, you need to get a handle on his end of life wishes, as well as who has legal control over his care when he's incapacitated. Additionally, you may want to understand the financial issues, as well as bluntly whether your sister or another family member benefits from particular health care decisions.

As a last note, don't be a selfish jackass - what would your FATHER want if he were making the decision and making your decisions accordingly. Are you or your sister keeping him alive because that's what he'd decide if he could. Conversely, are you allowing him to die because you would prefer it, rather than deal with the situation, emotionally or otherwise.

Honey, it's not about what you want, but what's in his best interests - as he would see them if he were capable of making the choices.

To be frank with you, OP, this could be the beginning of the end.

But it might as well be something REALLY innocuous, like a severe deficit in vitamins and minerals.

Please consult with the doc.

You are obviously boring him to death.

"I cynically believe the hospital wants to keep him there as long as possible because they're making a lot of money off him."

Not true at all. Most hospitals would prefer a quick turn over of patients. You see stroke patients getting discharged after 2-3 days of inpatient stay. Brain aneurysm surgery patients get discharged after 2 days of stay. Hospital length of stay has gone down in the past 5-10 years.

OP my father went into a deep sleep for three days in the hospital before he died. I told them before hand he wanted a DNR so they just let him be until he died. I have to live with that decision but I know my father wouldn't have wanted to be kept alive artificially.

R14- right. You carried out your dad's wishes. You were being a good son.

Shouldn't be a decision you regret.

My mom is there too, but she's 82 and not in the best of health herself.

He's rallied before, so that's what makes it so uncomfortable. Do you not feed someone and just let them expire? What if they got better and lived a few more years?

He definitely would want to stay alive- no matter what it took.

"But it might as well be something REALLY innocuous, like a severe deficit in vitamins and minerals."

Are we in iVillage? Where do these idiots come from?

R17, they come straight of medical school, moron.

WHAT THE FUCK! ! YOU DON't put a feeding tube into a dying man. Speak up and say NO!

Sounds like maybe his body is starting to shut down. Maybe your sister is getting minimal information because she can't accept anything more.

You have the right to ask the doctor how much longer your father has. It opens the door for the doctor to have a more candid conversation with you.

An elderly person never wants a feeding tube...it would be really cruel.

Your Dad is ready to die, kiss him goodbye and leave the room. Tell him you understand.

Well, R19 nails it. That is exactly what's happening. YOU don't usually rally from a "deep sleep. " We knew someone who eventually died of COPD about 20 years ago. Same symptoms. He was an elderly guy who "visited" with my grandmother. Eventually his lungs lost their elasticity and there was a fluid build up. He'd go to the hospital and get drained the come home. This happened at least three times. Then he went into respiratory arrest and they had him on a ventilator. He coded a few times. so eventually they had to put a trachea tube in so they could use the ventilator and it wouldn't be so hard on him. Then he got the feeding tube in the stomach. But he was conscious and aware and that was the worst part. His sister was trying to keep him alive. She was sure he would "recover". He was 82. It was agonizing for my grandmother to watch. I advise everyone out there to insist your parents or older relatives to do a living will and make sure the DNR is very clear. Just because you can keep someone alive doesn't mean you should. It has nothing to do with insurance or $$$. It has everything to do with the patient and his quality of life.

OP/R16, that’s why you need to have a frank discussion with the doctors about prognosis. Get a second opinion too. As far as not feeding someone, that’s a very common way to go at the end of life. Despite going against all of our instincts to help our loved one, witholding artificial nutrition/hydration is NOT uncomfortable for the dying person. It is not starvation as it is experienced by a healthier person. Dehydration is the actual cause of death, and with proper palliative care it can be a peaceful and compassionate death. Hospice is one of your options, and it can be a wonderful resource for you, your dad, and your family. They are professionals who can have difficult conversations with you about end of life. I’m sorry you’re going through this. I hope you or the decision maker gets all of the information to make the best if difficult decision for your beloved dad.

I don’t have advice but my thoughts are with you OP.

A large, fluffy, monogrammed pillow makes a lovely and quite useful gift for difficult times such as these.

OP, if your father has a regular doctor, they (the doctor and your father) may well have had a conversation about how your Dad would have wanted to be treated.

With my Dad we had a big family conference with all the docs regarding a treatment they were suggesting. It wasn't until I asked a very specific question that the ramifications of that choice became clear.

Also, a warning to any reading this thread.

A family member with no spouse or children had been most specific as to not wanting to be kept alive through artificial means. When approaching surgery, his doctor asked him what he wanted the doctor to do should the patient code on the table. The relative said very firmly "Let me go."

This man had done the living will and medical power of attorney specifying the same.

Without all the details, after another health situation, my uncle ended up in a coma and on a ventilator. Despite many attempts to wean him off the ventilator, the hospital could not do it successfully. They informed us (his family who were his nieces and nephews) of this and told us they could no longer keep in the facility as there was nothing else they could do for him

The choice was to (1) take him off the ventilator and let whatever was to happen, happen or (2) leave him on the ventilator and move him to a care facility that handled those kinds of patients. The 2nd choice was the exact situation that my uncle had stipulated he did not want.

The problem was that the nephew (the oldest of us) who my uncle had chosen to hold the medical power of attorney struggled terribly with the decision to the point that it looked like uncle would end up in the nursing facility.

Luckily, when doing the documents for my uncle, a family lawyer had suggested that my uncle choose 2 backup family members to make the decision if the first chosen could not. The primary person formally relinquished control to the 2nd and my uncle was taken off the ventilator. He died not long after.

The reason I tell this story is as a warning to anyone who reads it. Be careful who you choose to hold the medical power of attorney and be sure that they are of the personality and sense that they can make the hard decision. Doing the documents alone will not save you from artificial means if the person you choose to enforce your decision is incapable or unwilling to actually make the decision.

The hospital definitely doesn't want to keep him there as long as possible if he's on Medicare. Medicare has strict guidelines and unless there is a very good reason for a patient to be kept in the hospital for extended periods of time the hospital and the doctors get in trouble with Medicare. And believe me, Medicare keeps track of patients treatment and expenses much more closely than they used to.

R8 and r28 are correct. From the sound of it your father has congestive heart failure. The feeding tube - ? -we’ll ther are a few types - but if it is a PEG tube then your dad must have failed a swallow screen. Your sister would have had to consent for the procedure. She’s probably had to concentrate for most everything depending upon if your dad is capable of giving his own consent. Anyway sounds like you are not getting the whole story - and it sounds like your sister doesn’t understand what is going on.

“Well, there are”

Consent not concentrate

Taking out a feeding tube would cause him to starve. Why would anyone want that? Why wouldn’t you want to do whatever it took to keep him alive? Removing a tube or a ventilator would just be murder.

This reminds me of Terry Shivoh. Her husband wanted to killer and I guess he finally got his wish.

Doctor here, We don't keep people in the hospital to get "paid more," we actually get penalized if our hospital length-of-stay is longer than normal. Not sure what is happening with your dad without more info but I hope you guys are coping the best you can.

Helpful, R32.

The hospital didn’t put in a feeding tube without someone signing a consent form for that. So whoever his Power of Attorney or medical decision-maker is... you need to take it up with that person.

I have "Do Not Resuscitate" stickers bring with me whenever I visit anyone in the hospital, even if they are there for a nose job. I just slap them on every chart. They come in quite handy.

Why do you want to die?

So sorry OP...... Think if the questions u want to ask..and ask them. Hugs xxx

So sorry for you and your father OP. I hope he is comfortable. Ask your sister these difficult questions here. I hope he passes peacefully.

Wow Op, I'm kinda going through the same thing.

My dad was admitted to the ICU last week - right and left sided heart failure, with atrial flutter and pneumonia. Plus he has cops and emphysema (but he's had those 2 things for awhile)

Apparently he decided To stop taking his medication about 6-8 months ago and never let on to my mom that he stopped his meds.

So then last week we were leaving for an out of town wedding. He decided not to go and told my mom he wasn't feeling well. He made an appointment to see a doc on the Monday we got home. My mom went to take him to the doc, but it took her 25 minutes to get him into the car. So she went straight to the re.

He was put into intensive care within a couple hours of them treating him. Then a few days ago, he was feeling nauseous. And started puking in his bed. The doctor said that he is having internal bleeding in his gi tract. He went into respatory distress and they put him on a ventilator

So now because of the bleeding they had to stop giving him the heart medication - so it's like which is worse, heart failure or internal bleeding?

When they put him in the ventilator they also had to sedate him - so he's not responsive at all right now. I don't know if it's a medically induced coma but he's on phentanol or something - so he has no idea anyone is even there. He's been like this 3-4 days now. Like in a coma but one the doctors created.

To top it off now he has akaline blood - or something of the sort, so they have to make his ventilator different (something to do with having too much carbon dioxide in his breaths)

At this point it's 50/50 if he is going to make it. We just don't know. I've been to the hospital everyday for a week visiting.

I feel bad because we had an argument in august and I stopped talking to him for a few months. He was being mean and irrational - he's also an alcoholic

But now his behavior makes a little more sense if he stopped taking his meds month ago.

I did see him before he was vented and sedated - so at least he knew I did go to see him. Now he has no idea if I'm there or not.

If he does survive - he will be very debilitated. If he does get better we still expected him to be in the hospital for at least a month.

I hope things get better OP. I completely understand what you're going through right now

Sorry about all the typos

Sounds like you can return his Christmas present.

Sorry for what you're going thru as well, r40. Much luck to you.

R40, I'm so sorry. It's a nightmare, isn't it.

Thank you r43/r44

It is a nightmare. It's like he keeps have more and more setbacks in ICU and the reality is he has a high chance of not making it from this. He's 72. Things just went downhill very fast. But the thing is - a lot of this was his own doing. He stopped taking his lasik medication 6-8 months ago (that treated his heart condition) he said he stopped taking it because he became depressed. But he never told anyone he stopped taking it. He always picked up his own prescriptions at the pharmacy so My mom had no idea he stopped. The past 6 months or so he seemed to be taking a lot of naps - like 3 a day, and was moody, mean and didn't want to do anything. The house got messy as well. He stopped doing much of anything - like cooking (which he always did) and things around the house. Then Monday instead of going to his regular doc, my mom took one look at him and said let's go to the ER instead. He agreed. I think he knew his condition was critical - I dont think he would have asked to go to the ER if he wanted to die.

Older people can be so fussy re their meds r40. If they are used to being independent, they can sometimes feel like they're being held down or held hostage to taking them all the time. They don't want to admit that they need them to stay alive, to awful consequences as with your dad.

Stay strong and hang in there.

"but if it is a PEG tube then your dad must have failed a swallow screen. Your sister would have had to consent for the procedure"

He did, he failed that. But my mom is making the decisions; my sister is just the unofficial spokesperson.

Apparently he kinda woke-up a couple times during the last week and was able to answer some questions, but has been in this 'deep sleep' now for several days. All his other vital signs are okay.

That's why it's so confusing: maybe he'll wake-up again.

A feeding tube is no big deal. It's an alternate way to get food into your stomach when you can't swallow... nothing less, nothing more.

My cat hat one for 2 months (he lived a year and a half afterward... without it, he would have unquestionably died within days). It was no big deal. He curled up in my lap, purred, and I fed him every few hours. After a while, he knew it was mealtime & that he felt good afterwards. There was no trauma or fighting. In fact, it made giving his meds 10,000 times easier... they just went in the syringe with everything else.

Feeding tubes aren't some horrific abomination. They're no big deal compared to most things old people endure. People get all worked up about them, and really SHOULDN'T.

Okay, my sister has emailed me the following: "The doctors won't tell you anything other than they think he won't get better and he won't ever be without a tube".

OP, I experienced this with my father, not understanding that he was in the final stages of his life with end stage lung cancer, until a very kind nurse explained the process of dying to me. Let's face it, most of us aren't familiar with it.

It might help to talk to your sister, and to the doctors. Maybe your sister is having a hard time letting go. A deep sleep is often the natural final stage of life. If you both can help your father pass peacefully, then you will have done your best by him.

I'm so sorry you're going through this.

A feeding tube is no big deal if you're able to live your life otherwise, there are people who have problems with their digestive tracts who have to take nourishment through a tube, and are able to get up and around and live like a normal person.

However, if a person is dying or their brain has given up the fight, a feeding tube is just one of the many ways modern medicine has to keep a person alive for a very long time, in a miserable and helpless state. If the doctors are saying he won't get better then believe them, and tell your mother and sister that it's okay to let nature take its course, and just make sure he doesn't suffer. That's doable these days.

And OP, it might be time for you to go to the hospital. Not just to participate in the decision-making process, but also because if Dad isn't waking up then he's likely to be near the end, and this may be your last chance to see him.

R22 is a complete fool so I hope her family insist on every painful procedure that medicine can think of to keep her alive...idiots like her are usually right wing Christians. They insist they love Jesus but do all they can, so they won't have to see him. They talk about heaven but never want to go there.

Why are they so afraid of something that is as natural as death?

OP, this is going to sound harsh, but I need to say it based on my own personal experience. R23 and R27 thank you!!

OP, your father is at the end of his life. After he is gone, you and your siblings, family, etc. will still be here and may be dealing with the aftermath of this family crisis longer than you expected. Why? Because of what you do and how you interact with one another right now. I've seen family members, siblings, etc. have serious falling outs because they disagreed and it got acrimonious.

Once you have offered your opinion, try to support who ever the decision maker is and give them the guidance they need to do what they feel is in the best interests of the patient. You'd be surprised at how resentment builds. Please try to avoid it. Your father is deteriorating. He won't last much longer. Maybe a feeding tube will buy another 30 days. When your lungs lose elasticity, and you're literally drowning in fluid, eventually everything gives out. Not being able to swallow anymore is one of the first signs your body is truly shutting down. You aren't starving anyone by denying them a feeding tube.

But the fact is, you all need to talk to one another so that the decision maker will feel comfortable, not guilty. Whatever they decide they will be doing their best. They will be trying to do the right thing how ever they may see it. When someone dies after a long illness the grieving process is just as real as it is when death is unexpected. Be there for one another so that you can preserve your relationships after you all survive this crisis.

Thanks for all the input. I've relayed a lot of it to my sister and mother. We have all agreed that there will be no feeding tubes.

Dad's headed back to the retirement home today in a hospice capacity.

Though I do remember when my aunt had multiple debilitating strokes (brain cancer) and her family decided to move her to hospice with no feeding tube or liquids (basically a death watch)... she came out of a coma state and, although virtually paralyzed, was alert to her surroundings for another 3 mos. So you never know... the mysteries of the human mind and body.

Alive for 3 months but not really living. It is just a torture...maybe your aunt was paying for a sin, maybe she needed to learn a lesson before she moved on?

So you’re going to allow your father to starve to death?

R52, nobody wants to die. I would hope everyone did everything possible to keep me alive for as long as they could. I never want to die, as awful as life is sometimes. Especially if there’s no afterlife!

Sometimes people just snap out of it.

Thanks r46. He's been in medication for many years, retired at 55, so the process of taking meds certainly isnt new to him. He already had copd and emphysema - plus during the course of the past 6-7 years he put on a ton of weight - weighs 350 now. A few years ago he managed to lose 100 pounds, but gradually put it back on over the past couple years. He said he stopped taking his meds because he became depressed. My brother, who is bipolar, had a lot of issues over the past couple years (a couple inpatient admissions and a suicide attempt) I think all that also took its toll.

One of the issues of course is also his weight - it makes it harder when getting treatment. Yesterday they moved him onto some type of special hospital air bed. I think he was starting to get bed sores. Keep In mind it probably takes a few large guys to even move him.

He does have a feeding tube. I think if he does survive the progress will be very slow moving.

Op/r54 - I'm so sorry to hear. There are no feeding tubes in hospice - basically part of hospice Is cutting off all nutrition, but at the same time - giving him the appropriate medication to make him peaceful.

R55, srsly, just go die in a grease fire.

In a very painful way, that is.

You know why you deserve it.

You should look into hospice/palliative care.

There's also a sensible middle ground. If OP's father weighs 350lb, they could do the feeding tube port and use it to give him low-calorie, high-nutrient & mostly liquid food to keep him hydrated and keep his digestive system from shutting down while he loses weight. If he (partially) rebounds after a week or two, your problem is solved -- he can tell you himself what kind of care he wants going forward.

Lots of people screech, "No feeding tubes, ever!" while they're healthy, but VERY FEW people ever demand their removal or non-use once they're in place and/if they regain lucidity. It's a well known phenomenon -- people set arbitrary lines they swear they'll never cross, but as lucid death approaches, those lines keep getting pushed back because they themselves decide that continuing to live is, even in a compromised state, is preferable to death.

It's different when someone is in 24/7 excruciating pain, like death from liver cancer, but most end-stage conditions ebb & flow... and the ebbs happen just often enough to convince them that getting to the next ebb is worth enduring the current flow. There's also a tendency to hang on until some upcoming event before voluntarily throwing in the towel & saying 'no more' -- Christmas, 100th birthday, child's wedding, grandchild's birth, etc.

The downside is that it's also common for people to hang on until a day like Christmas, hit the day slightly disappointed when it ends up sucking in their current state, end up in the hospital on a day when it's overcrowded & understaffed (often, after procrastinating because they didn't want to ruin anyone else's day), dying, and ensuring their loved ones' Christmases will suck for decades because they died on a date that literally CAN'T be forgotten. And for some dying people, that's actually comforting. Everyone is different.

To me, it sounds like OP's dad is the type who'd protest in advance, but decide to hang on anyway & push back the goalpost another 10 yards (for now, at least) if he woke up & found he'd been moved to the next step while asleep. Especially if he wakes up feeling kind of good compared to how he felt a few days ago (lungs freshly vacuumed out, painkiller euphoria, and 25-50lb lighter).

My mom terrifies me. She's in good health now, but she's precisely the kind of person who'll happily "go to Jesus" at the first opportunity if we don't try to at least throw a speedbump or two in her path. I had a MAJOR argument the last time she had relatively minor surgery (knee replacement) because she completely HORRIFIED me by casually checking "DNR" without a second thought.

I can see someone getting worn down by pain & hopelessness, but I'll be *damned* if I'm personally going to ever voluntarily die out of the blue from something stupid without putting up a good last-minute fight first just to be stubborn.

R62 I don't think Op's dad is 350lbs

That's my dad - I'm r40. I responded to op's post because we are sort of going through the same thing right now. Except Op's dad is in assisted living and 85 years old - now released from the hospital and going into hospice

And my dad is 72 - on a vent with heart failure, pneumonia and a whole other host of problems - one also being that he is 350lbs

He's already lost about 30 pounds since being in the hospital - but that was just from fluid retention from his heart failure

He didn't eat for the first couple days. In the hospital - They just put a feeding tube in so he could get nutrients

I think op's dad is probably normal weight

Sending love and moose smotches, OP. Sorry for your circumstances.

My sister said he's in a hospice situation at his retirement home. Sleeping 98% of the time. Word is "he won't last long".

My mom is getting the funeral arrangements out of the way.

Sad. His youngest brother died two weeks ago, and all the other siblings in just the last couple of years. I suspect that his mother asked him years ago, before she died, "Take care of your brothers and sisters". And he feels he can 'go' now.

Sorry, OP. I’m glad he’s finally receiving hospice services. They will facilitate a comfortable and dignified death. I hope you are able to visit him before his time.

Keep us updated here OP. Best of luck.

this wont help this situation but that is why everybody needs a living will;;;;;;;basically you can provide a document in a hospital that states the level of care you want and one of the items commonly included is .....no feeding tubes. WHen I went to a lawyer to have a new will done, they automatically now include without asking a living will and a power of atty.

Most hospitals will give you paperwork upon admission whether you want a DNR or not...........do not recessiate..............but I would think the sister would have had more of an input on the level of care for her father and I wonder if there is some lack of communication going on between brother and sister?

R68.

Read the warning post at R27.

Op how are things going?

For me - they are unable to wean my dad off the ventilator. They kept trying but have been unsuccessful. When they try he starts to hypervenalate

They are going to trach him Monday or Tuesday

They removed his feeding tube today - but that's because he hasn't gone to the bathroom in 2 weeks. They are doing a cat scan to see if he has an obstruction.

Things are stable, but no improvement - so it's still a wait and see

My mom is now looking on how to get power of attorney. Just in case something happens and she has to sell their house - he is a joint signatory on their home. I think she is feeling like things may not improve at all and is preparing..

Why are you such a troll, OP?

We just went through our dad dying of stomach cancer, but really what did him in is the nerve responsible for swallowing was encased in arthritic bone in his neck and the impulse to swallow was late-delayed-nonfunctional. So each time he ate he was aspirating bit by bit ( ineffective swallowing causing the contents to end up not entirely in his stomach, but in his lung which can cause pneumonia). He was 91. When palliative care came in it was an interesting discussion. When asked what his ideal outcome would be, I.e., passing in comfort, he said 'I want to live to be one hundred'. We all looked at him like WTF, and he said, well Mike ( his brother) lived to be 100. But then push came to shove he said take me home, I want to die at home. So we did. Hospice was involved, all hands on deck. But Thankgiving was Thursday, he was fine had a nice family dinner and then died Monday. It was grueling. But we all got to say our goodbyes and felt good that we were honoring his wishes. But really how long are you supposed to live? The worse part was when hospice came for their stuff they audited the 'comfort care kit' they had left behind. When they counted the narcotics and stuff we were like WHAT? We had morphine over the fridge and nobody knew? We were more depressed we didn't realize the kit included Ativan. You can't be afraid to be real. When describing what would be happening if he got incubated and his odds at his age of recovering from such a medical intervention he said 'enough'. Take me home. So all decisions were made at his directive. It can be a great comfort knowing you were doing what they wanted, and needed, to be done.

[quote][R52], nobody wants to die. I would hope everyone did everything possible to keep me alive for as long as they could. I never want to die, as awful as life is sometimes. Especially if there’s no afterlife!

I have never understood why fundie xtian nutbags insist on keeping people "alive" on machines with not real life or possibility of joy, happiness, or pleasure - or even basic human contact.

If I believed in heaven and and eternal bliss in heaven with my savior, I'd be PISSED if my family kept me away from that, alive and suffering. If you keep the body alive, you are preventing your loved ones from ascending to heaven, given the theology. You are actively torturing someone you loved, rather than allowing them eternal bliss and peace.

Seems awfully selfish to me. But, why would I expect anything different.

Ugh.. I spoke too soon. They did the cat scan and found massive amounts of air in his intestines. They are at risk for rupture. He was just air lifted to Penn for emergency surgery

The doctor said to my mom - we can either air lift him to penn or I can give him antibiotics here (meaning if we don't air lift him he will die) but then he went on to recommend the air lift- he is too high risk for that hospital to do the surgery...hence being transported To U Penn. she agreed on the air lift

I'm going to drive to Penn now... I don't know if he will survive .

I'm Just so sad. We had an argument in august and I didn't speak to him until he was admitted to the hospital almost 2 weeks ago.. He is an alcoholic and had just gotten so mean. Worse over the past 6 months - but if he also stopped taking his meds that could also explain his behavior.

Even if you weren't on good terms recently R40/74, I'm sure your father knows you love him & that you are always with him

Thanks r75. We drove all the way to Penn to find out he won't have the surgery. The doctors there diagnosed him with a rare situation called Ogilvie Syndrome. On top Of everything else he has. Which is also a very serious complication. He was originally at a wonderful hospital - but UPenn is in a completely different league. The docs there at Penn are highly skilled and it's a world class facility - so at least he is now getting the best possible medical care possible. My mom feels better now because whatever happens she at least tried everything and was in the best possible place for care.

If he ever wakes up and realizes he was helicoptered to Penn he'd be shocked. And to think this all could have been prevented to a large extent if he had not stopped taking his meds 6 months ago.

R68, R27, my twin sister is [italic] exactly [/italic] that person. Now, my brother, love him, would pull the plug, but not my sister. In advance, she’d say she would. It could be all discussed, explicitly, and agreed But she would not. Her brain is just wired differently than mine. I don’t exactly understand it.

She’s the kind that pursues conclusion, albeit over years, perhaps, but could not make the timely hard choices. My bro has a law degree so understands nuances and following agreements/rules. He’s my decision guy.

He passed away today.

I love you dad.

Sorry to hear that, R40/R78. Here's a hug from Europe. Hope you're ok despite your father passing away.

Thank you r79. I think I'm just so exhausted. It's been a rollercoaster over the past 2 weeks.

Once we get through the motions of making the arrangements and having his service - I think then it will all hit me.

OP, how are you doing?