and we've known that it's not true for decades
Anatomy Does Not Determine Gender, Experts Say
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and we've known that it's not true for decades
Anatomy Does Not Determine Gender, Experts Say
by Anonymous | reply 65 | October 23, 2018 11:54 PM |
Fuck off.
by Anonymous | reply 1 | October 23, 2018 1:55 PM |
OP was wanking in the loo during biology.
by Anonymous | reply 2 | October 23, 2018 1:57 PM |
I really don't get how someone can feel that they aren't in the "right" body. Your body is your body, how can it be wrong? That being said, I really feel for those that suffer from such an internal conflict and I support whatever they need to bring them peace.
by Anonymous | reply 3 | October 23, 2018 1:58 PM |
[quote]The idea that a person's sex is determined by their anatomy at birth is not true
I don't agree with this statement the way it stands as out anatomy includes are brains and hormones.I might agree to the following statement:
A small minority of people seem to be wired to be the opposite sex of their anatomical presentation. The causes are not understood but it appears to be a congenital and a genuine phenomena .
by Anonymous | reply 4 | October 23, 2018 2:00 PM |
Amazing. The surgeries are what is unsettling to me. The pain and all the meds. I would think opiates would need to be involved if they chop a penis off and build a vagina. A lot of pills. Pain Management. Hospitals Doctors Visits Follow ups etc. That is the terrifying part to me. Once your in the system and all those meds does if ever end? A life of going to the Doctors.
by Anonymous | reply 5 | October 23, 2018 2:09 PM |
[quote]And the stupidity.
Some things in life just can't be changed. You can mutilate your body but it doesn't make you the opposite sex. Just makes you a mess.
by Anonymous | reply 6 | October 23, 2018 2:20 PM |
[quote]You can mutilate your body but it doesn't make you the opposite sex. Just makes you a mess.
While medical practitioners, pharma companies and the media rake in the money.
by Anonymous | reply 7 | October 23, 2018 2:24 PM |
boring troll
by Anonymous | reply 8 | October 23, 2018 2:25 PM |
1/20 for the time you spent typing this mess OP.
by Anonymous | reply 9 | October 23, 2018 2:26 PM |
XX and XY combination chromosomes determine your sex idiot.
by Anonymous | reply 10 | October 23, 2018 2:28 PM |
I hadn't considered that before, r5. The desire to surgically excise and/or grossly mutilate an otherwise healthy body is itself anathema to nature, but I had figured transexualism is on par with the body dismorphic disorder that causes a small minority of otherwise perfectly healthy people to want to amputate an arm or have their spine paralyzed because their brain, for reasons unknown, rejects the limb(s) as foreign and offensive. The vast majority of surgeons refuse to amputate healthy limbs or sever spinal cords for ethical reasons (first, do no harm) but really if they did perform those procedures, the surgeries do actually work to resolve the patient's distress in one go.
SRS surgeries are currently widely accepted and even championed, yet they *do* require a lifetime of dependency on powerful synthetic hormones, further surgeries, and yes, one must assume a fair amount of painkillers. Furthermore, SRS does *not* resolve the patient's distress in one go (and in many cases they become more distressed post-op, which is why Johns Hopkins no longer performs them).
by Anonymous | reply 11 | October 23, 2018 2:29 PM |
For all you transphobic posters, the OP did not post some whacko medical journal’s article. This appeared in The NY Times. Maybe you should listen to some experts as open your minds.
by Anonymous | reply 12 | October 23, 2018 2:33 PM |
[quote]Furthermore, SRS does *not* resolve the patient's distress in one go (and in many cases they become more distressed post-op, which is why Johns Hopkins no longer performs them).
Well-said r11. In the future medical science will lump SRS procedures with lobotomies: surgical failures. An experiment that didn't work.
by Anonymous | reply 13 | October 23, 2018 2:34 PM |
[quote]This appeared in The NY Times. Maybe you should listen to some experts as open your minds.
R12 Maybe you should realize that both the NYT and the "experts" are driven by agenda.
by Anonymous | reply 14 | October 23, 2018 2:37 PM |
Thank you r11. My Mom had Rheumatoid Soriatic and Osteo Arthritis. Knee Replacements and on and on. Loratabs were her pain meds. Going to Doctors and Hospitals and pills for life are no way to live.
by Anonymous | reply 15 | October 23, 2018 2:38 PM |
This article doesn't even make sense on its own terms. Its concluding sentence is "Of all the information on gender identity, he said that to medical experts, the studies on those cases provide the strongest evidence that gender identity has deep biological roots."
So, there is no such thing as anatomical sex which is determined by biology, but "gender identity" is determined by biology? This is nonsense and simply junk science thrown together for political/ideological purposes to argue against Trump's effort to define gender according to anatomy and to have "gender identity" instead protected in law as an immutable condition.
Does the fact of having a male body or a female body really mean nothing? If so, then scientists and academics ought to study it rather than ignore it, since the body that we have is one of the most - if not the most - decisive factors in who we are as a person.
Again, we return to the same issues that are never satisfactorily addressed by the trans activists: biological males to participate in women's sports? People with penises in women's bathrooms? Lesbians should be open to sleeping with "women with penises" otherwise they are transphobic?
by Anonymous | reply 16 | October 23, 2018 2:46 PM |
Is that why people look for balls on a puppy or kitten before coming up with a gender-appropriate name?
by Anonymous | reply 17 | October 23, 2018 2:47 PM |
[quote] I really don't get how someone can feel that they aren't in the "right" body.
You’re supposed to be straight. It makes sense from an evolutionary standpoint. But you don’t feel heterosexual. You want to put your dick in someone’s poop shoot or have them put theirs in yours. Get it? It’s a feeling. It’s biologically off.
by Anonymous | reply 18 | October 23, 2018 3:01 PM |
[quote] [R12] Maybe you should realize that both the NYT and the "experts" are driven by agenda.
You sound like climate change deniers.
by Anonymous | reply 19 | October 23, 2018 3:03 PM |
[quote] Amazing. The surgeries are what is unsettling to me. The pain and all the meds. I would think opiates would need to be involved if they chop a penis off and build a vagina. A lot of pills.
Why would you care and you’re admitting that you don’t even know what’s involved. You’re an idiot. You sound white.
by Anonymous | reply 20 | October 23, 2018 3:04 PM |
The NY Times does not have any agenda except to report the truth (and provide excellent theater coverage).
by Anonymous | reply 21 | October 23, 2018 3:05 PM |
That's a completely different situation, r18. Your body is you, your body literally exists before you as an "identity" do. Who you have sex with doesn't change what your body is. Are you suggesting that we we all pretend that we're ethereal spirits not bound by any corporeality? When you desire someone does the physical body not play any role for you?
Another false analogy, r19. The more correct comparison would be that trans are more like climate change deniers, trying to deny the physical reality of the environment.
by Anonymous | reply 22 | October 23, 2018 3:06 PM |
[quote]The NY Times does not have any agenda except to report the truth
LOL. You've apparently missed their coverage of Trump and his supporters since 2016. They're all hardworking, decent, diner-eating folk, and he never LIES, just uses 'demonstrable falsehoods'.
The Times has become a fucking joke...with an agenda.
by Anonymous | reply 23 | October 23, 2018 3:13 PM |
R21 the article is not about truth. It is totally the opinion of Dr. Safer, head of Transgender Medicine at Mt Sinai!
by Anonymous | reply 24 | October 23, 2018 3:16 PM |
R20 I am a Human Being trying to understand why someone would Choose to be cut on and live a life taking pills. " You sound White" Really? Your funny as hell. I will be in New Orleans next weekend let's grab drinks.
by Anonymous | reply 25 | October 23, 2018 3:24 PM |
Are humans the only animals who have problems with gender?
by Anonymous | reply 26 | October 23, 2018 3:29 PM |
[quote] That's a completely different situation, [R18]. Your body is you, your body literally exists before you as an "identity" do. Who you have sex with doesn't change what your body is. Are you suggesting that we we all pretend that we're ethereal spirits not bound by any corporeality? When you desire someone does the physical body not play any role for you?
Gay people believe that they can’t help being gay. That they didn’t choose to be gay. The same goes for the transgender. Both are not the norm and are based on feeling and observation. They’re exactly the same thing. I know it hurts to hear this. Tough shit.
by Anonymous | reply 27 | October 23, 2018 3:36 PM |
[quote]You’re an idiot. You sound white
Another Lipstick Alley cunt exposes her racist self.
by Anonymous | reply 28 | October 23, 2018 3:56 PM |
[quote]I really don't get how someone can feel that they aren't in the "right" body. Your body is your body, how can it be wrong?
Imagine if we told paraplegics, amputees, or people with congenital deformities that they were in the “wrong” body. Why are we assigning a moral value to our physical bodies? Isn’t this just another form of passive discrimination? Think of the past regimes that have designated people as “defective” due to their sex, race, skin color, etc. I will never understand why the left has seemingly embraced such an absurd position.
[quote]A small minority of people seem to be wired to be the opposite sex of their anatomical presentation. The causes are not understood but it appears to be a congenital and a genuine phenomena.
Well that cannot be the opposite sex, so the problem lies in the thinking. At the root of much of this are plain old, garden variety anxiety disorders like OCD. The idea of presenting as or changing oneself to the opposite sex becomes a fixation, much like the anorexic fixates on their weight or people with body dismorphia are obsessed with self-determined flaws in their appearance.
We treat the mind to accept the body, not change the body to relieve the mind. When we did that in the past, it was called a lobotomy. This is a return to the dark ages of mental health treatment.
by Anonymous | reply 29 | October 23, 2018 3:59 PM |
[quote]Gay people believe that they didn’t choose to be gay. The same goes for the transgender. Both are not the norm and are based on feeling and observation. They’re exactly the same thing. I know it hurts to hear this.
No - it doesn't hurt to hear this all all. I accept that both homosexuals and trans identifying people are aberrations. The are both small minorities of the biological norm.
But being a homosexual doesn't motivate me to mutilate my body. I have learned to live with my sexuality in the confines of a society that often disdains me. However some trans people people insist on radical surgery to try to "correct the situation."
Is this right or wrong? In my opinion it is VERY misguided to remove one's reproductive organs and make other radical surgical changes to one's body. IMO the ends definitely don't justify the means. I agree with r13 that trans surgery is failed surgery.
by Anonymous | reply 30 | October 23, 2018 4:05 PM |
R21. Turning a profit is the most important agenda for the NYT.
by Anonymous | reply 31 | October 23, 2018 4:08 PM |
[quote]But being a homosexual doesn't motivate me to mutilate my body
EXACTLY!
by Anonymous | reply 32 | October 23, 2018 4:09 PM |
Hate and confusion. Unfortunately here they are not necessarily linked, and the hate just proceeds from hate, or its face with a gutless intent.
by Anonymous | reply 33 | October 23, 2018 4:12 PM |
Sex isn't binary and our genes are not the only factor in our sexual makeup.
Here's Stanford medicine and a 2015 article (pre trump, pre NYT article) that speaks to this issue.
by Anonymous | reply 34 | October 23, 2018 4:12 PM |
Another science denier!
by Anonymous | reply 35 | October 23, 2018 4:16 PM |
Yeah
by Anonymous | reply 36 | October 23, 2018 5:05 PM |
[quote]No - it doesn't hurt to hear this all all. I accept that both homosexuals and trans identifying people are aberrations. The are both small minorities of the biological norm.
Homosexual behavior has been observed in hundreds of species, including all primates. To my knowledge transgender behavior has only occurred in a small fraction of the human population. I don't even know what it would look like in animals--would they attempt to chew off their own genitalia or mammary glands? Such behavior would not benefit either the individual (who'd either sterilize himself and remove himself from the gene pool, or just bleed to death), or the greater community. There is no evolutionary advantage.
Homosexual behavior, by contrast, is thought to have benefits to a community, like strengthening interpersonsl bonds to help keep the peace between males, or increase cooperation between females in communal child rearing, or to placate male urges for sex when there aren't enough females to go around, or as a natural birth control when there's overpopulation, or that gay males can be very helpful in raising and protecting young. Which may be why it's relatively common across all cultures and populations, and why the overall percentage of gays hasn't changed despite an entire generation of gays decimated by AIDS in the 1980s.
All efforts to equate homosexuality with transgenderism are disingenuous and cannot be supported by facts or reason.
If your way of life could not or does not exist in nature, it is unnatural. Homosexuality exists in nature the world over. Transgenderism exists only in the form of mental illness in a tiny percentage of humans. And you cannot fix mental problems from the outside in. They must be addressed through therapy.
by Anonymous | reply 37 | October 23, 2018 5:05 PM |
R27, here is the bio proof you need that gay men are gay men:
Our dicks get by men.
Women do not make our dicks erect.
Sorry, it’s nothing personal. But my plumbing responds to MEN. My educated guess is that lesbians are turned on by women and not men.
So if T is like homosexuality, what is the bio evidence that proves it ? Other than “just a feeling.”
by Anonymous | reply 38 | October 23, 2018 5:08 PM |
Sorry that should say:
Our dicks get hard by other men.
I have an undeniable physical reaction from hot dudes that I do not get from hot chicks.
by Anonymous | reply 39 | October 23, 2018 5:09 PM |
You mean the "aluminum tubes" New York Times?
by Anonymous | reply 40 | October 23, 2018 5:16 PM |
The existence of intersex conditions only reinforces the fact that the human sexes are a binary when you realize that every single intersex disorder is tied to a particular sex (e.g. Trisomy X, Klinefelter, etc). "But what about XXY? X0? XXXY? Gotcha cis scum" is like saying that because some people are born with extra or missing fingers and toes that our hands and feet exist on a "spectrum".
"Transgender brain" is also a myth. Careful reviewing shows that only "heterosexual transgender people" (transgender-identified gay people) exhibit a particular brain morphology. How funny that, in their effort to garner legitimacy through neuroscience, they have only managed to provide even more evidence for the innate nature of homosexuality.
by Anonymous | reply 41 | October 23, 2018 5:19 PM |
[quote]All efforts to equate homosexuality with transgenderism are disingenuous and cannot be supported by facts or reason.
Totally disagree r37 - Homosexuality and trans are both aberrations from the biological norm. The fact that homosexuality is found in other species - and that you state "homosexuality may offer benefits to the community" doesn't alter this fact.
Homosexuality and trans may - or may not - have other similarities. Bt both are dissimilar from the biological norm - and both are small minorities.
by Anonymous | reply 42 | October 23, 2018 5:32 PM |
How is trans biological, r42?
by Anonymous | reply 43 | October 23, 2018 5:43 PM |
Maybe my terminology isn't precise. But if a person is born as a transsexual they deviate from the biological norm.
by Anonymous | reply 44 | October 23, 2018 5:46 PM |
Are you saying gays and trans are aberrations, r42?
by Anonymous | reply 45 | October 23, 2018 5:56 PM |
Either we have a lot of Russian trolls on this thread or a lot of folks doing their work for them.
by Anonymous | reply 46 | October 23, 2018 6:08 PM |
Yes r45 I am saying that gays and trans are aberrations are aberration from the norm.
The norm is heterosexuality. And the norm is a persons gender identification agree with their biological presentation.
by Anonymous | reply 47 | October 23, 2018 6:12 PM |
R42 Do gay people share special kinship with all of earth's other "biological aberrations"? Why stop at trans? How about psychopaths, people with a fetish for feet, pedophiles, vegans, people with two heads, people who wear glasses...
by Anonymous | reply 48 | October 23, 2018 6:12 PM |
Sorry, r48 I was talking about gays and trans being aberrations from the norm.
You are talking about other thing.
by Anonymous | reply 49 | October 23, 2018 6:16 PM |
If y'all want to see everything we are talking about. Halloween and Voodoo Fest New Orleans this weekend and then Dia Dr Los Meurtos.
by Anonymous | reply 50 | October 23, 2018 6:32 PM |
Thanks, r47.
What are “gender norms”...?
Maybe I’m transgender & don’t even know it. I need to see the list of genders norms.
If I am, does this mean I need to take cross-hormones & my penis removed? Or can I keep my body intact & still be trans?
by Anonymous | reply 51 | October 23, 2018 6:41 PM |
r51 - you should Google Transgender. Lots of good info online.
by Anonymous | reply 52 | October 23, 2018 6:48 PM |
R49 No, YOU are the one talking about "other thing", making wild homophobic assertions and drawing unsubstantiated parallels.
Begone, troll.
by Anonymous | reply 53 | October 23, 2018 7:54 PM |
As a gay man, I don’t know what goes on inside the mind of someone who self-identifies as transsexual. But I believe their stories because who the hell am I to know what their experience is like? They should be protected by laws to ensure their safety and freedoms as much as everyone else. I’ve met transsexual people and I don’t have a problem with swapping gender pronouns if that’s what makes them comfortable. Individually I have no problems with any of it.
My problem comes from making biological conclusions of what is really more of a cultural issue. Who is to say that a man can’t behave culturally as a woman and still be considered a man? It strikes me as something that pivots on our Western cultural definitions of ‘man’ and ‘woman’. Transgenderism seems to only be definined by its contrast to the perceived behaviour and outward appearances of gender. That to me is not biological. If someone has a penis, they can behave any way they like, as far as I’m concerned, and still be a man, no matter how far removed from the norm. And conversely for women in the same situation. If someone has a problem with that, fuck ‘em.
The defence of Transgenderism is based on psychological perception, not biological rejection. I think there is a simpler and easier and healthier way to deal with it by expanding our definitions and expectations of what it means to be a man or a woman, rather than hypothesising alternative biological genders and their accompanying traumas. But that’s just me.
by Anonymous | reply 54 | October 23, 2018 8:44 PM |
Totally agree, r54, an excellent summary of the matter.
by Anonymous | reply 55 | October 23, 2018 8:54 PM |
Thanks, r52. I did and here is what I found:
[quote]A gender role, also known as a sex role, is a social role encompassing a range of behaviors and attitudes that are generally considered acceptable, appropriate, or desirable for people based on their actual or perceived sex or sexuality. Wikipedia
And from Planned Parenthood:
[quote]What are gender roles?
[quote]Gender roles in society means how we’re expected to act, speak, dress, groom, and conduct ourselves based upon our assigned sex. For example, girls and women are generally expected to dress in typically feminine ways and be polite, accommodating, and nurturing. Men are generally expected to be strong, aggressive, and bold.
[quote]Every society, ethnic group, and culture has gender role expectations, but they can be very different from group to group. They can also change in the same society over time. For example, pink used to be considered a masculine color in the U.S. while blue was considered feminine.
[quote]Extreme gender stereotypes are harmful because they don’t allow people to fully express themselves and their emotions. For example, it’s harmful to masculine folks to feel that they’re not allowed to cry or express sensitive emotions. And it’s harmful to feminine folks to feel that they’re not allowed to be independent, smart or assertive. Breaking down gender stereotypes allows everyone to be their best selves.
I’m sorry but I’m confused. Why would people undergo physical surgery to change “gender”...it’s just sex roles.
Wouldn’t it be healthier and more reasonable to change society’s expectations of how males and females should act...?
by Anonymous | reply 56 | October 23, 2018 9:02 PM |
Who is to say that a man can’t behave culturally as a woman and still be considered a man?.. they can behave any way they like, no matter how far removed from the norm.
Totally agree r54 - one of the great things about being gay is labels can be put on and taken off like hats. "I happen to be a man but I'm wearing a dress." Is a good example. IMO we are who we say we are. It every one's personal choice.
And like you I don't understand how a transsexual thinks but it must be a deep yearning to motivate someone to undergo such radical surgeries. Bruce Jenner is a good example. Although he is not much loved on DL, Jenner had a very good life pre transition: iIt was comfortable and he had a nice niche as a former Olympic champion. Now he's laughing stock for many - not accepted by straights or gays. He gave up a lot to transition. The yearning and desire to be the person he wanted to be much have been very very deep.
by Anonymous | reply 57 | October 23, 2018 10:54 PM |
[quote]yearning and desire
More like mental illness & sex fetish must have been very very deep.
Remember: he wore his daughter’s underwear. Snuck into her room.
And he is is still an LGBTQ “spokesman”...perhaps not officially, but he is THE most famous trans on the planet.
by Anonymous | reply 58 | October 23, 2018 11:11 PM |
Does Caitlyn Jenner, currently, have a penis?
by Anonymous | reply 59 | October 23, 2018 11:18 PM |
he says he had the surgery but I doubt it, I think he's fucking Sophia Hutchins.
by Anonymous | reply 60 | October 23, 2018 11:34 PM |
I think Sophia is fucking him.
Bruce isn’t gay...it’s normal for a woman to get fucked with a penis.
But Bruce isn’t attracted to big, muscly men. He’s attracted to hot chicks!
Bruce is turned on by the idea of het sex. But he gets off on homosex.
Maybe that’s what they mean when they say they feel like women? They identify as straight, but ...oh fuck it. I give up. I can’t figure it out.
But it has something to do with disembodiement.
by Anonymous | reply 61 | October 23, 2018 11:44 PM |
[quote]The yearning and desire to be the person he wanted to be much have been very very deep.
Does this hold true for anorexics? Schizophrenics?
by Anonymous | reply 62 | October 23, 2018 11:47 PM |
Well - Caitlyn and Sophia have some sort of accommodation I'm sure. Sophia has had the surgery so if she's fucking Caitlyn it's with a strap on. Caitlyn has the big advantage of being super rich so he can call the shots.
by Anonymous | reply 63 | October 23, 2018 11:49 PM |
F&F R20
by Anonymous | reply 64 | October 23, 2018 11:52 PM |
I sound like a fag
by Anonymous | reply 65 | October 23, 2018 11:54 PM |
Yes indeed, we too use "cookies." Take a look at our privacy/terms or if you just want to see the damn site without all this bureaucratic nonsense, click ACCEPT. Otherwise, you'll just have to find some other site for your pointless bitchery needs.
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