Ready for the Paddy Wagons? Fundamentalists in White House plotting a "pre-Stonewall America".

OP = off her meds

Well maybe the Ts will have fully erased us by then and trump won’t be able to find us OP.

Prez Pence is the actual worry

Can you cite something OP?

If the administration remains Republican after this November, and after 2020, then we will see a rollback on my of our hard-earned rights. The OP may be off his meds, but he still has a point.

"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them." Barry Goldwater (R-AZ), November 1994

R1 Has his head in the sand.

This is the lead story of the NYT right now:

OP calls gay men a slur, "cocksuckers."

What is the 2004 treatment?

[Quote]rollback on my

Rollback on *many

R8 can clutch his pearls even harder; they're not real.

As I white person, can I "identity" as another race and get the requisite benefits? (This is very true in my profession -- academia -- where many grants are dependent on minority status.)

No?

Then why can biological males "identify" as women and obtain things such as admission to women's colleges?

How, epistemologically, is that any different?

Nor, apparently, does the OP like himself. Otherwise, why post this here?

Here are excerpts from the article at R7:

The Trump administration is considering narrowly defining gender as a biological, immutable condition determined by genitalia at birth...

A series of decisions by the Obama administration loosened the legal concept of sex in federal programs, including in education and health care, recognizing sex largely as an individual’s choice — and prompting fights over bathrooms, dormitories, single-sex programs and other arenas where gender was once seen as a simple concept...

Now the Department of Health and Human Services is spearheading an effort to establish a legal definition of sex under Title IX, the federal civil rights law that bans gender discrimination in education programs that receive government financial assistance...

The department argued in its memo that key government agencies needed to adopt an explicit and uniform definition of gender as determined “on a biological basis that is clear, grounded in science, objective and administrable.” The agency’s proposed definition would define sex as either male or female, unchangeable, and determined by the genitals that a person is born with, according to a draft reviewed by The Times. Any dispute about one’s sex would have to be clarified using genetic testing.

Hyperbole, paranoia and histrionics. Just another Sunday morn on DL.

More from the article at R7:

“Sex means a person’s status as male or female based on immutable biological traits identifiable by or before birth,” the department proposed in the memo, which was drafted and has been circulating since last spring. “The sex listed on a person’s birth certificate, as originally issued, shall constitute definitive proof of a person’s sex unless rebutted by reliable genetic evidence.”

[quote]If the administration remains Republican after this November

Would you care to explain to us how it could possibly NOT remain Republican after November?

XX and XY chromosomes should be the determinant

OP you sound scared but that is no reason to slur gay men.

The trans community has screwed itself. They have been steamrolling over women because they thought they only needed the support of males to get what they wanted.

Now, Trump has set things up where women who don't like him will end up supporting him on this issue.

But this is not the fault of individual gay men. This whole mess was created by the male-focused trans community.

R18

Dems win both the House and more seats than are open in the Senate, vote to impeach and convict Trump, impeach and convict Pence, and appoint Hillary as Speaker of the House so she can succeed to the job she won by the 2016 popular vote.

Meaning, in an parallel reality it could happen, but I don't think so. Even if R5 sees it a possibility.

OP, is Rachel Dolezal black or white?

It's not just the trans they're after. Also from the Times article:

For the last year, health and human services has privately argued that the term “sex” was never meant to include gender identity [italic]or even homosexuality[/italic], and that the lack of clarity allowed the Obama administration to wrongfully extend civil rights protections to people who should not have them.

This hysterical hyperbole is why Trump won. Liberals need a good swift kick in the ass.

Trump has appointed an openly gay man as Ambassador to Germany, and there's a very good chance this man may be moved to Ambassador of the UN.

Trump has appointed an openly gay man to be a Federal judge.

These are not the actions of someone who is planning to turn back the clock. Sane voters are beginning to see the hysterical attitude of liberals and turn away from them.

Those laws were meant to support and protect women but then the trans activists turned them inside out to privilege males over females.

Fresno Bee: Women accuse Poverello House of allowing transgender resident to sexually harass them

It's telling that the trans community usually only tries to rally gay men to their side and doesn't bother trying to appeal to lesbians.

R24: Just bend over and take it, you lazy ass bitch!

[quote]Trump has appointed an openly gay man as Ambassador to Germany, and there's a very good chance this man may be moved to Ambassador of the UN.

Yeah, and he appointed Ben Carson, an openly black person, to his Cabinet, so he's obviously not racist!

OP is right. Make all the excuses you want but this is what we are dealing with.

" Trump will never win".

As long as they take hysterical psychotic unhinged OP, the rest of us will be fine.

Dasvadanya, Boris! 🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺

Smell like cigarettes and vodka here.

[quote]These are not the actions of someone who is planning to turn back the clock. Sane voters are beginning to see the hysterical attitude of liberals and turn away from them.

Of course, in the real world, that's not true, which is why you don't bother to support that bullshit. Moreover, appointing a token gay does not compensate for the ways that he has already turned back the clock, with multiple actions taken to harm the LGBT community, not least of which was the appointment of Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court.

Fuck, OP.

[bold]For gays, Trans is the Final Solution. [/bold]

You are complicit!

R27 He only appointed Ben because he thought he was the porter come to shine his shoes.

Trans overplayed their hand and oddly enough gays and lesbians are the likely winners.

Conservatives are likely to use trans as a way to illustrate how out of control "the libtards" are, while leaving gay rights alone.

Obama somehow made it seems as if protecting trans rights was one of his major projects.

And much of the legislation was done without thinking about how individual schools were supposed to handle it, often without any sort of guidance.

So you have well hung boys wearing miniskirts and demanding they be allowed to change in the girls locker room. Even die-hard liberals were freaked out about that one.

Then you have people with male bodies and penises claiming that they should be allowed to compete on high school girls teams

I am not a trans hater and I don't think they are all mentally ill, but I do think that an America that was just getting used to the idea of gay marriage and out homosexuals needed some time to digest that before springing full trans rights on it.

R36: You retarded bigot! Presidents don't "legislate", they make rules and issue executive orders. Just shut the fuck up, you have no idea of what you're talking about!

R34: You need a dose of the brush, I see.

We should be be narrow-sighted in thinking this is just an anti-trans move. That definition, "the status of being male or female" is also targeted at the Courts of Appeal that have begun to recognize sexual orientation as within the definition of "sex" under the Civil Rights Act of 1964. It effectively reverses a lot of gains that have been made regarding employment, housing, and educational discrimination under federal law for both gay and trans people.

^not be

[quote]Ready for the Paddy Wagons?

I am if Paddy O'Brien is on them.

I wonder if OP realizes how completely un-PC a term based on (a) a slur on the level of the "n" word that was leveled at Irish immigrants (b) used in a construction that implies said Irish immigrants are all criminals, is?

Given that this is DL, I'd say highly likely.

Does no one study history. "Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it."

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Caitlyn Jenner must be heartbroken

Cait might use this as an excuse to detransition.

R7, the NYTs has become as impartial and objective as Pravda. I don't even bother with the A section anymore. It is so obvious that the "news" stories provided are chosen for ideological reasons and presented from a specific ideological perspective. It is sad.

"well-hung" boys wearing miniskirts so they can spy on women in locker rooms. r36.? Pictures or you'r'e totally making that up.

I mean, if I was in a female prison and some dude was in the shower with me and I don't want to be exposed to his genitalia, isn't that basically state sanctioned sexual assault? The Ts need to find their own way. They do not belong with LBG.

They can't exterminate trans people as trans is not real. It's physically impossible for humans to transition. You are born with a set of chromosomes and you will die with the same set of chromosomes. DNA cannot be changed, despite how much plastic surgery people have to mimic the other sex they can never be. Gender is a social construction based on gender stereotypes. Biological sex is real and cannot be changed.

Here R46.

R46, research Lila Perry.

There is video of him walking in a skirt where you can see it bouncing like in r49

He danced in the girls lockers wearing a g-string over his dick & balls. Because that’s how teen girls behave in locker rooms. Not male fetishists nor exhibitionists.

Well, I just researched Lila Perry and the first site that came up via google was something callled encyclopedia dramatica and it is a vile racist, phobic shitshow.

R45 - not obvious to me. Explain with examples.

Yep, we're fucked.

Lila does add fuel to the “they just have to get their way” side of this debate.

The school Lila attended even had a gender neutral bathroom but Lila just HAD to get in the girls spaces. 100+ young women were uncomfortable with a penis in their changing area but Lila had NO empathy for them.

It’s wasn’t even a situation of there are a girls room and a boys room and that’s it. The school had an inclusive third option.

Lila does look very well hung.

“Paddy wagon?” Seriously?

The police trucks at Stonewall were -- and frequently still are -- referred to as "paddywagons." OP was trying to reference that specific incident.

Maybe OP knew it was a slur, maybe he didn't, but I've seen more complaints about this word than I usually do if someone drops the n-word, or uses "k*ke" or some slur on Italians.

Not sure why, other than that NYT article is pretty clear about how much the Trump admin is targeting not just trans but gays and lesbians too, and people are lashing out because they don't want to believe it.

So yeah, OP fucked up with his choice of words, but Trump is still coming after all of us.

Maybe the political trans movement shouldn’t have alienated so many allies, R42, like those “cis scum,” PRIVILEGED WHITE gays and lesbians, TERFS, and even the “problematic” RuPaul.

Now when there are REAL attacks coming down the pipeline plenty of people don’t give a rip.

Some of us aren't wired like you, r58. We don't go around thinking that an entire demographic deserves to be stripped of human rights because a handful on Twitter and Tumblr were being obnoxious.

Oh, FFS, they were called paddy wagons. Who gives a shit.

R59 the trans community thinks that women should be stripped of their identity. They didn't give a crap how these trans policies negatively impacted women. They thought they won.

Why should women now go out and vote for trans after they showed their true colors? The men they rallied to pass these laws should be the ones leading the charge for them.

Where is Obama and Biden? They need to get out there now.

Thank you, OP, this is what we have been telling those anti-Trans fanatics for years. Would they listen? No, they are so selfish and stupid that they just kept right on trying to make and trouble and now they have it.

Now WE ALL have it. They are coming for us.

R59: Thank you! Screw the psycho ones, for every one of them there's a 100 regular T -girls and T-boys who are as normal as you and me.

R58: One problem. TERFS, by definition, are against the trans rights movement. There's no cooperating with them. That's like saying the gays need to cooperate with some of these homophobic reverends in the black community, cause Solidarity! or something. It just ain't happening there.

*make problems and trouble

"T-girls and T-boys"? Really?

Why do you think "TERFS" are against transgender rights but were fine with gay rights? They even allied with gays.

Re: that NYT article, this part is especially chilling: “For the last year, the Department of Health and Human Services has privately argued that the term “sex” was never meant to include gender identity or even homosexuality, and that the lack of clarity allowed the Obama administration to wrongfully extend civil rights protections to people who should not have them.”

Don’t think for a moment that they will limit their civil rights rollback to transgender people - because the people responsible for this latest atrocity certainly believe that the “people who should not have” civil rights protections include all LGBTQ people.

Bring on the death panels. I can't take another holocaust.

I don't dangle my junk under my clothes. That's a good starting point: foundation garments. Otherwise, ladies - this isn't a gay issue.

Please your ftm problems to a forum that gives a damn.

So many of you idiots are in such mindless denial. It's like you're not paying any attention, and know no history.

OP is exactly right.

Children, Trans cemented themselves to gays very deliberately in order to access the money and the organizations that were the result of centuries of work by gays , sweating blood and tears.

Trans are barnicles who then invited all sorts of weirdos to join- (what exactly are queers? ) then Trans sneakily got legislation passed across the country that significantly disenfranchises women.

In the meantime, Trans have so little respect for gays that they physically assaulted gay women at this years San Francisco Dyke March.

Now the Country is going to die OnThe Trans hill, because Donnie Dump is going to put Title IX back to where it should be- educational opportunities for females are going to be based on biological sex not the nebulous gender Obama changed it to.

The net result is that the Democrats are now going to have to defend the disenfranchisement of women for the benefit of a tiny, crazy bunch of screaming cross dressers.

The midterms will be lost and we will all die.

The End.

Has Caitlyn released a statement yet? As the self-proclaimed trans ambassadress she must have some explanation for all of this. Will she host a press conference and Cosmo party with mani pedis for everyone? Or will her staff be working hard to drum up support for the Repugs who will surely stand up to Trump if we elect them in the mid-terms.

No, R73, Caitlyn has yet to release a statement. I'm sure Cait is working on it right now.

However, Cait did declare during the summer that: "I’m now a Russia fan!"

R20, I dislike Trump, and I believe that gender is determined at birth, however, as a woman, I will NOT be supporting Trump on this issue.

[Quote]This hysterical hyperbole is why Trump won. Liberals need a good swift kick in the ass.

[Quote]Trump has appointed an openly gay man as Ambassador to Germany, and there's a very good chance this man may be moved to Ambassador of the UN.

[Quote]Trump has appointed an openly gay man to be a Federal judge.

[Quote]These are not the actions of someone who is planning to turn back the clock. Sane voters are beginning to see the hysterical attitude of liberals and turn away from them.

In other words, you didn't read the article before you came here to take a piss.

r76 He's waiting for mommy to sound out the big words for him, cher

First they came for the non-binary, and I did not speak out....

r78 well, sure because it's just 0 and 1 and ...

OP isn't being hysterical - its prescient and totally warranted alarm. Any gay man that doesn't realize what's going on is not a man, he's a damn fool.

[R24] Every conservative here needs a good kick in the ass back to 1969.

Hysterics, loonies and the nastiest homophobic cunts alive support Trump and his LGBT hate, so of course we have several of them here at the Datalounge.

More anti LGBT legislation and regulations are coming. Trump will use this and every other hot button, right wing issue next year as things get worse for him. The toxic clambake of anti-trans fanatics who post here all the time don't really care about LGBT issues, they just hate men. All men. They especially hate men who transition and they even hate little boys aka pre-rapists. Remember Michfest and that Brother Sun segregation camp?

Speaking of Michfest, we could all use a good laugh. The link is to one of the glorious and magnificent Michfest threads. Michfest, the legend will live on in Datalounge Infamy forever and ever. Amen.

I think Trump in his own life probably she's Gays like accessories to women who make them pretty (Ivanka) and couldn't really care about what they do personally, but in politics he'll end supporting the rednecks.

The best quality video I could find of the well-endowed Miss Perry. (Around the 3:20 mark). I wonder whatever happened to this gorgeous gal?

The Lila Perry thing was over 3 years ago. Give it a rest.

They were called Paddy Wagons because supposedly they were used to round up all the drunk Irish. Because every Irish person was supposed to be a drunk.

Fuck you, OP. An ethnic slur is an ethnic slur.

(rolling eyes at R85)

I love that r83 could only find a FOX news video to show this terrifying example of a dangerous Trans on the loose. Maybe because all the women that are supposedly terrorized by trans people only watch that network?

[quote] could only find a FOX news video to show this terrifying example of a dangerous Trans on the loose. Maybe because all the women that are supposedly terrorized by trans people only watch that network?

Do you want more? Because there's plenty more.

Here's more than a thousand people, mostly liberal women, with a huge % of them gay women, relaying their negative, and frequently frightening, experiences with trans"women."

Yes, because right wing nut cases never troll Reddit.

Statistics, how do they work?

[quote]TERFS, by definition, are against the trans rights movement.

“Terf” is a slur directed at women who refuse to drink the trans kool-aid, and that includes lesbians who don’t want to have sex with men in dresses.

Speaking of Michfest, R81, it was shutdown by a Trans activist who went on to brutally murder two gay women and their son.

So if you have any respect for murder victims, gay people, and the lovely wimmin of Michfest, I would suggest you and your fellow Trans-lurvers, shut the fuck up.

No, R92, it appears michfest was shut down by Vogel because she didn't want to accommodate trans women.

Vogel had options 1. Continue as always 2. Admit trans women 3. Hand over the festival to someone else 4. Close the festival.

Maybe you think Vogel was trans? And killed people?

I never appreciate how confused people are around sex and gender. Sex is what you are. Gender is what you wish you were. I'd be pro establishing programs for transpeople only, extracting transwomen out of women's programs and respecting that biological difference.

And if Pence takes over it will be done in a flash!

Trans didn't kill Michfest, you lying sack of shit. Vogel killed Michfest. Cathy Brennan killed Michfest.

You piece of shit r96. You bullying, misogynistic trans are about to reap what you sowed. You have not a single ally left. And you deserve what's headed your way.

You manipulative fuckfaces r96 think you can fool and lie to everyone and get away with it. A trans wrote the bullshit article you linked. Ya know, just one of the mtf who have hijacked the lgbtqaxy whatever. Just fuck off and leave us gays alone and do your own work for once instead of stealing our resources.

Wow people are very angry that you called out their bs about trans killing michfest.

Paddy Wagons? Wow? Bigot much, OP?

Oh, good, actual threats of violence from the anti-trans folks at R97 et al.

How sane you all are, and how lovely it is that no one at Mediapolis cares that this is what DL is being used for. Maybe Muriel can create a special Nazi Friendly Forum next.

The paddy wagon thing was already explained yesterday, and none of you people crabbing about it being a slur have EVER said a single word about the people who say n*gger or worse on DL.

There have been multiple threads on DL where someone has dropped that word and no one said anything. Nothing. So shove your righteous indignation up your asses.

[quote]The toxic clambake of anti-trans fanatics who post here all the time don't really care about LGBT issues, they just hate men. All men.

Nah. I know you want this to be a "crazed radfem man-hating lesbian" issue, because that's the only thing you ever post about here on DL, but these aren't really radfems. Radfems know feminist history, they know gender and sexuality studies, they know more the names of two popular TV-show feminists.

These are bog-standard rightwingers who are appropriating the rhetoric of the left, and usually poorly. That's why you see them say "gays are being erased!" and posting links from Fox News to support this. Because Fox is soooo concerned with gay erasure.

Now 102 you are full of crap. Generally there is at least one person to complain if the n word is used in a thread.

Also the poster who said that the trans drama killed mich fest is correct.

There often isn't, R104, let alone 10 people complaining like in this thread. More people have complained about "paddy wagon" than usually complain about any other ethnic slur.

Most of that is because the regulars just gave up. They ignore the anti-T and anti-Muslim and racebaiting threads. That's largely why you can go dozens of replies in some threads before anyone even notices a Nazi saying all Jews should be exterminated. I don't know if you're just being contrary or what, but DL has become an absolute fucking pit, and because nothing is done about it, people get away with it.

R89 that link brings up some interesting points. I'm currently studying at college in the UK, one of my classmates is a pre-op FtM. She is loud, abrasive, emotional, arrogant, aggressive, sometimes physically violent. I've lost count of the amount of times she's "squared up" to guys, constantly threatens to hit guys in the balls (which at this point screams of some psychological bs that she is attacking men for what she does not have. ) Worst of all is she is attracted to men and demands to use the male toilets, now this makes me really uncomfortable but I can't say anything as they have more rights than I do. She also quite clearly attracted to me, constantly messaging me and following me around, even post-op I wouldn't be interested in her uglyness.

DL has always been a pit R105. Point is someone will always note when the n or even c word is thrown out . You should have been here when we had separate forums. The politics and lesbian forums were vicious (oh the good old days).

Wait..."Paddy Wagon" is racist?!?! Have you all lost your fucking minds?????

About six months ago I mentioned no one had said anything about a guy who had used "nign*g" multiple times and got yelled at about being an SJW.

If this was any other thread, the people are howling about "paddy wagon" would be scolded for being SJWs.

Look at all the trannys in the OP photo...oh none.

Well, OP, no that is not happening, all Trump is doing is Title Nine actually being rspected, and women and girls being legally protected, so no need to panic, zero change at all

R12, I'm with you. If biology doesn't matter, then I would like to check a different box I automatically be given the rights of the identified race.

[quote]Bigot much, OP?

Strong words from a guy calling all gay men misogynists in other anti-trans threads. And you seem to be starting anti-Democratic Party threads regularly, which is odd since you're clearly super liberal, given your concern with anything that might be even remotely sexist or a racial slur.

R112 Sigh, not anti trans, pro reality, science women and children

R83/R84. Three years is indeed a long time ago. Lila would be the subject of a MeToo# campaign if he did that today.

He's just another example that contradicts the trans argument that such males are okay in female spaces because they have "lady brains".

So much irrational hate and hyperbole here. IT's kind of disgusting. Every gay person has been subjected to this ridiculous shit, we shouldn't be dishing it out.

If Paddy is racist why do so many Patricks use it as their nickname?

Maybe for the same so many black people use the N word?

^REASON^

The “paddy is racist” BS is being pushed by fake feminists who are actually hardcore Trump cultists.

And why, r116, is the largest chain of betting shops in Ireland (which also dominates the UK) called “Paddy Power”?

r120 Perhaps because they didn't call them Paddy Wagons in Ireland, just in New York and Boston where it was an intentional ethnic slur?

Fuck these right wing shitstains trying to use decency against the decent. ,you cunts don't give a shit about racism or sexism other than as an opportunistic weapon . We see you and your constant ugliness. Right wingers are superficially smug but seeing as everything enrages them ( trans people , immigrants, tattoos, abortion ,visible gays,any kind of demonstration, of free will, those comfortable with their sexuality, blacks who ' don't know their place', women who 'don't know their place', etc, etc) they have to be the most angry and frustrated creatures on the planet and they deserve to be .

If alternative medicine worked it would just be medicine and if transwomen were women they wouldn't be trans. There is no space on earth where women and transwomen can both inhabit without one dominating the other and thats because most transwomen are straight males. Males sexually attracted to females dont belong where those females are vulnerable.

[quote]Every gay person has been subjected to this ridiculous shit, we shouldn't be dishing it out.

That's one of the reasons that the anti-trans bullshit hasn't caught on here, despite years of effort, hundreds of threads, and thousands of posts. They use the language and tactics of bigotry, precisely the same languages and tactics that have been used against gay men and women.

"Gays are trying to convert our children!!!!!"

"Look at this one event (e.g., Folsom Street Fair, a Pride parade, etc.). This proves just how debased and degraded gays are!!!!"

"Look at this one comment on this obscure blog by some random gay person. This proves just how mentally ill gays are!!!!"

"Look at this one example of a gay pedophile. This proves all gays are pedophiles!!!!"

"Science proves that gay men are mentally ill!!!! Gays are anti-science!!!!"

"Gays are sick!!!!" "Gays are anti-religion!!!!" "Gays are trying to take away my freedom of speech!!!!" "Gays are trying to take away my freedom of religion!!!!"

Substitute "gays" with "trans" and this is exactly what our anti-trans idiots have been trying to do here. We've seen it before. It was bullshit when it was used against us; it's bullshit when it's used against the transgender population.

R124 not caught on where? Your cis-gendered Mother's basement?

Yeah, women wanting the ability to define themselves as separate to males, describe their own biology and experiences, not centre feminism around male people and be able to compete fairly in sports is just bullshit. Sure.

You can't convert a gay child to trans. You can however mutilate them so they align with society's sexism. Any gay man who dictates us to hush up when gay children are medicalised is not a gay man worth having in the movement.

Everything is a social construct!

Here at Datalounge, R125. Do I need to use smaller words for you to comprehend them? Your threads are the most-avoided threads here at DL. Nobody wants you here because you are all idiotic drama queen bigots. And your threads all end up looking exactly the same, with the same old tired bullshit and the same small list of anti-trans bigots congratulating themselves on how wonderfully brave they are for standing up to the "transtapo."

I do love how R124 got under their skin and how they have no answer for the points I raised other than to mindlessly attack. And to post exactly the bullshit I was referring to, thereby confirming the post.

Alas, I'm too busy to play with these idiots today, so I'll just let them return to their usual self-congratulatory circle jerk.

Could it be any more obvious that OP is not a concerned gay man or lesbian; rather he is a worried tranny(likely a straight man a la Caitlyn thinking he is a "lesbian" now) hoping to frighten the G&L contingency here into rethinking the predominate DL thinking about the trans people.

It ain't working Bruce. And if you wish to engender support you might rethink the gay slurs. That is precisely why we know you are a Bruce style tranny.:

You see how well the Kremlin playbook works? This thread is a good example. Promote infighting. Open your eyes sheeple.

Alt-Right, Vladimir, evangelical financial fiefdoms, and anti-penis anything TERFs, have an agenda. Knock the trans out the way first, then go for the gay jugular.

A lot of "plants" posing as trans activists. Infiltrate and destroy within is a common tactic of hate groups.

Yet R124 won’t even acknowledge that there ARE some trans activists using those same tactics.

Why are some transwomen allowed at Pride carrying actual LITERAL weapons of VIOLENCE?

I wouldn’t find it acceptable from ANYONE. Yet if people so much as ask “why” they are labeled transphobic.

Why is it unreasonable for people to even SUGGEST that sex segregated spaces might be necessary for women’s safety and if not necessary, then not a bad idea even?

My issue is that many trans activists won’t even considering listening to anyone else.

Maybe if large numbers of women are saying they don’t feel safe with male sex organs in the most vulnerable areas for women.....shelters, prisons, locker rooms, they aren’t being phobic, maybe they are just saying they don’t feel safe.

Exactly right, r124. Those tactics are straight (as it were) out of the Trump playbook.

A little kid died in England because the NHS refused to treat him (as he was going to die no matter what) = Socialized medicine is evil!

An undocumented immigrant accidentally shoots a woman in SF = All immigrants are evil!

And so on.

Even if you disagree with the idea of transgender people, we have to be like the right-stick together regardless of the number of opposing opinions within the party. There are plenty of people who claim they are conservative who cringe at their less tolerant and parochial brethren in their ranks. But hey, they get shit done. Party unity before anything else. We can start disagreeing with each other once we start winning.

One of the original Trans activists interviewed in the New York Times describing how the Trans gaslighted, deceived and obfuscated their way into gay organizations.

This is straight from the Trans' mouthes, you T-loving suckers.

The sane on here have been predicting a backlash against gay people caused by the Trans pushing their own agenda too far and here it is.

How the T got into LGBT (article from the New York Times).

[quote] But this moment — when transition stories are increasingly and empathetically featured in the media, campuses buzz with gender politics and the president condemns transgender persecution in the State of the Union address — did not materialize out of thin air. It evolved over the last quarter-century as Ms. Frye and others built a transgender civil rights movement, fighting dexterously to rebrand a highly marginalized group; demand, and increasingly win, equal protection under the law; and put the T in L.G.B.T. Despite a historic affinity between gay and transgender people, mainstream gay rights groups did not initially embrace the transgender cause as their own. They saw it as a liability. Yet from the time their far younger movement coalesced, most transgender advocates felt kinship and a practical need to ally themselves with the large, relatively well-financed gay movement. “We realized that we should have a parallel movement, but also needed to be dug into the L.G.B.T. movement,” said Mara Keisling, the executive director of the National Center for Transgender Equality. “The folks I work most closely with are all very nice, sweet people, but we had to be such hard asses. At a certain point, we said, ‘No more moving gay people ahead without trans people.’ ” Having felt the sting of gay groups’ rejection long ago, Ms. Frye led some of the earliest sorties in what became a pitched battle for transgender inclusion. She repeatedly argued that homophobia and transphobia were entwined, and made the case that many transgender people are themselves gay.

And of course the whole “Paddy is racist” thing is classic deflection.

READ THIS:

[quote] Ms. Frye and others built a transgender civil rights movement, fighting dexterously to rebrand a highly marginalized group; demand, and increasingly win, equal protection under the law; and put the T in L.G.B.T. Despite a historic affinity between gay and transgender people, mainstream gay rights groups did not initially embrace the transgender cause as their own. They saw it as a liability. Yet from the time their far younger movement coalesced, most transgender advocates felt kinship and a practical need to ally themselves with the large, relatively well-financed gay movement. “We realized that we should have a parallel movement, but also needed to be dug into the L.G.B.T. movement,” said Mara Keisling, the executive director of the National Center for Transgender Equality.

How can you be transgender AND gay?

I'm not sure that we have any actual trans activists here. We never really paid any attention to the issue until Michfest killed itself and that contingent of harpies showed up here blaming trans for it.

From the way they freaked out over me posting the truth about how Michfest went under (financial mismanagement over years - not trans), I'd say we have a few old Michfest refugees still here. I think they have nowhere else to go. Normal feminists won't have anything to do with them or their trans hate. They get booted and banned from feminist websites.

They tried like hell to take over the Datalounge and convince everyone here that trans are our enemies but they have failed. Spectacularly. R124 is right and they know it. Even with Milo whoring for them day and night, they get nowhere because their case is unjust and their talking points are lies.

This, from R103 I believe, was also a lie:

[quote] I know you want this to be a "crazed radfem man-hating lesbian" issue, because that's the only thing you ever post about here on DL

My posting history is extensive and it shows no such thing. The rest of your post, regarding this being a right wing operation, I half agree with and half don't. Yes, it's obviously being used by Trump and the Trumpmanzees on the right to stir up their braindead supporters. At the same time, we have the Michfest refugees who have been hiding here for years.

They think that they can get gay organizations and gay money to back them. We keep saying no, they keep not hearing it. NO.

54 British and American academics (from many prestigious centers of learning) publish an open letter calling for Transgenders to stop harassing them and for an open discussion on the UK's Gender Recognition Act"

[quote] Academics are being harassed over their research into transgender issues

It is not transphobic to investigate this area from a range of critical perspectives, say 54 academics who are also concerned about proposed changes to the Gender Recognition Act

[Quote]You can't convert a gay child to trans. You can however mutilate them so they align with society's sexism. Any gay man who dictates us to hush up when gay children are medicalised is not a gay man worth having in the movement.

THIS. THIS is why the trans movement is sexist and homophobic. And I'm sorry, but if you support gay children being transed then you too are complicit in the sexist and homophobic trans agenda.

Do you still support transing children after knowing the vast majority of "trans" children are actually gay (or, in most instances grow up to be gay adults)? If you do, you are homophobic. You literally support the erasure of gays and lesbians.

Dana Rivers was one of the Trans activist that organized large scale boycotts, including artists boycotts, of Michfest because it was a space for women, many of whom were survivors of rape, sexual assault and incest. And many of whom were gay.

The women just wanted a place to themselves for a few days a year, but that was too much for the Trans.

Dana Rivers went on to brutally murder two lesbians and their son.

[quote] OAKLAND, Calif. — A former California teacher whose firing over a gender change made headlines in 1999 has been charged with triple homicide in Oakland, reports CBS Sacramento.

Dana Rivers, 61, is being held without bail on charges of arson and three counts of murder. She was fired 17 years ago from her job at Center High School in Antelope, California, after undergoing a sex change.

Rivers is accused of the shooting and stabbing deaths of an Oakland couple and their son.

Officers were called to a home early Friday morning and found Toto Diambu, 19, in front of the home with an apparent stab wound.

While officers were aiding Diambu, who later died, they heard a loud bang from the garage and allegedly saw Rivers walking out of the home covered in blood.

R59 - no one says they should be stripped of their rights! I certainly don't. I don't support this whatsoever.

All I say is when you go around shrieking that misgendering someone is LITERAL VIOLENCE! that a lot of people will be completely apathetic (or even worse, devoid of sympathy altogether) when something real and concrete (like this!) actually threatens your rights in a very fundamental way. Just like RuPaul's old tweet (during the She-Male controversy) likening the SJW march for the blatant hypocrisy it is, attribute this rampant attitude in the community to Larry and Linda's opinion from the square states. People like them could REALLY care less, especially since they are demonized at every turn. So what does that get them?

It gets Trump for ALL of us.

R146, you seem like a sweet man, do you not understand that Title IX was meant for women to have the same educational opportunities as men?

Why are you falling for the Trans BS that this change threatens your rights?

All this does is restore Title IX to its original intent - to give educational opportunities, INCLUDING THE OPPORTUNITY TO PARTICIPATE IN ATHLETICS, to biological women.

And, as has been stated ad nauseam, Trans make up less than .5% of the population, yet you're all screaming that the rights of the 50% of the population that are women should be destroyed for this tiny (but very vocal and vicious) minority.

And then you wonder why that Fat Fuck in the White House is riding high in the polls.

[quote] Title IX is a federal civil rights law in the United States of America that was passed as part of the Education Amendments of 1972. This is Public Law No. 92‑318, 86 Stat. 235 (June 23, 1972), codified at 20 U.S.C. §§ 1681–1688. It was co-authored and introduced by Senator Birch Bayh in the U.S. Senate. It was later renamed the Patsy T. Mink Equal Opportunity in Education Act in 2002 after Patsy Mink, its late U.S. House co-author and sponsor. The following is the original text as written and signed into law by President Richard Nixon in 1972:[1]

No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance.

— Cornell Law School's Legal Information Institute (20 U.S. Code § 1681 - Sex)

That ^^^^^^ says all that needs to be said.

[quote]We never really paid any attention to the issue until Michfest killed itself and that contingent of harpies showed up here blaming trans for it.

That's not quite true. They've been around for years but started getting really active three years ago with their ridiculous "Drop the T" petition, a petition that went nowhere, of course, despite the fact that it got a lot of press. A small cohort of these obsessed idiotic drama queens has been active here ever since. The posts on this thread are a fairly typical example: fact-free, made-up bullshit, doom and gloom, drama queen rhetoric, and personal attacks. You can't talk to them and most of DL doesn't even try anymore. Their threads are the most-avoided threads on DL.

Case in point: this hilariously ridiculous statement: "And then you wonder why that Fat Fuck in the White House is riding high in the polls."

Transwomen at Pride carrying axes and bats to intimidate.

Fact, not made up, still not acceptable behavior for anyone claiming to this community.

^Be in this community^

As for most avoided threads?

The Graham Linehan thread is up to 431 posts.

Since most of the threads are deleted we can’t really say how well attended they are, can we?

We must fight for our right.

My reading of Title IX is that it gives access to trans.

Just because some of us want to make sure bio women feel safe, does NOT mean we're anti-trans. This isn't an all or nothing subject.

My god. I 100% support transpeople. But I support actual transpeople. Meaning, if you're taking hormones AND have had the surgery or are in the process of getting the surgery done? Then I fully believe you are trans and deserve to be the gender that you claim to be because you've actually followed through with becoming said gender. (If not? Then you're a transvestite - which I'm totally cool with. But that doesn't warrant special rights.)

Ditto a bisexual who claims to be bi, but is never intimate with one of the sexes.

Ditto someone who claims to be straight, but has sex with the same sex.

Ditto someone who claims to be gay, but has sex with the opposite sex.

I was alive in 1972, the year Nixon signed the civil rights bill, Title IX, into law. It had nothing to do with Trans. It was to address the grievous discrepancies between educational funding for women and that for men.

In 1972, women were second-class citizens - a woman could almost never get credit unless her husband or father signed for her; Title IX was passed in order to help redress that.

Then, Obama radically changed Title IX from "sex" to "gender"

As has been mentioned, there was no vote on this change. The women of the United States of America were never consulted, even thought the change directly affected their right to privacy and their access to athletics.

The future of every little girl in America was negatively affected by Obama's change, and again, there are many more little girls in this country then their are little boys, mostly gay, who might think for a few years that they are little girls.

Statistics:

[quote] When children who reported transgender feelings were tracked without medical or surgical treatment at both Vanderbilt University and London's Portman Clinic, 70%-80% of them spontaneously lost those feelings. Some 25% did have persisting feelings; what differentiates those individuals remains to be discerned.

No, in 1972 Nixon didn't intend it to include Trans, that is correct. Here we are today and I read the language which obviously does include them, as well it should.

Exclusion, narrow-mindedness, bigotry, these are not the way forward.

If you would like me to advocate for you then I ask that you justify to me why girls and women should be exposed to dick in female spaces. I have never gotten a good answer for this, and I'm not sure it exists. Do you want to take a crack at it r157?

From where I stand the tools of rape culture are being used to coerce lesbians, female homosexuals, to have sex with transwomen, males. Why is it rape culture? Because lesbians are ostracised if they honestly express their sexual orientation, because their sexual orientation is gaslit into 'genital preference' (remember when 'preference' was the conservative line?), because apparently our community has decided that dicks are so great they should be compulsory for lesbians. I remember a comment on here where a poster communicated with a young lesbian online to learn she was sexually assaulted in a homeless gay youth shelter, the bosses sided with the transwoman who assaulted her over her. It's rich for you to talk about division when you've ignored our sisters for so long. You're not a gay child, you're not a lesbian it's easy for you to call unity because these issues don't affect you. They're not problems for you so they're not problems.

'Exclusion, narrow-mindedness, bigotry' are just buzzwords to shame lesbians into sleeping with you.

Is Paddy hung?

Ooh, the Trump TERFs got triggered and managed to get the OP F&F’d.

Congratulations on this magnificent victory, Trump TERFs!

What are you talking about? The OP isn’t grayed out.

I'm guessing that the OP is grayed out for insulting gay men, as Trans often do, by calling them "c*cks*ckers.

The Trans can't even be civil to their allies.

R157, what part of "giving men who think they're women the right to shit all over actual women enrages a huge segment of the population, including actual women, parents and even some fair-minded gay men" don't you get?

Obama made the decision to change Title IX - it was insanely regressive and has led to lawsuits across the country as parents fight for their girls.

Now the Fat Fuck in the White House is doing the right thing by changing to its original intent, but not for the right reasons. He and the GOP realize full well that by forcing Democrats to defend the "right" of teenage boys to win girl's track meets and swing their junk around the girl's locker room they will have a significant wedge issue that will drive Independents and a good amount of liberals to stay home or even vote GOP in the case of the Independents.

I know that many of you are very isolated, so don't have feelings for anyone else, much less little girls, but the vast majority of people in the US if asked, "Is it fair that boys are allowed to self-identify as girls to access a girls' locker room or win a girls' track meet?" will vehemently say, "NO."

USA Swimming has also decided to let boys self-ID as girls and swim against girls. Wait till the shit hits that fan. As a former college swimmer, I would suggest that the Trans have met their match. Not the girls, but their parents.

OP isn’t grayed out for me.

[Quote]More anti LGBT legislation and regulations are coming.

But how much will this impact you on a daily level?

Quite a bit, R164, since they are aimed right at me. How about you?

What do you mean they're aimed right at you? Are you trans?

The Trump Administration wants to invalidate all Obama-era civil rights protections that are based on a definition of “sex” that they (the Trump régime) think is too broad.

Which means LGB people are in their cross-hairs too.

whatever they do, you'll be in a rage for a day or two about but then it will have no practical affect on your life

Everyone grab your pussy hats, we need to organize!

They also don’t seem to modify their tactics for Datalounge. It’s mostly “won’t SOMEBODY please think of the women and children!!??”, as if this forum is populated by a bunch of mommy bloggers who will launch into action against the trans threat. Tailor your message for your audience, guys!!!

My husband is on my health plan at work, since he’s a contractor and I’m not.

If insurance companies are somehow granted the right to discriminate against same-sex couples, that will absolutely have an effect on my daily life.

Even though he's expressed conservative views through the decades, I really don't think Trump has any opinion about anyone but the man in the mirror. He's too narcissistic to care about anyone but himself.

That said, he's based in Manhattan, NY- not Manhattan, Kansas; certainly he's been exposed to all manner of alternative lifestyles through the years. He's a social butterfly, and I'm sure he's had gay people around him (decorators, designers, writers, hair/make-up, etc.). I'm sure he's had threesomes, kinky scenes, affairs (how many times was he on Howard Stern?). And women have even aborted his babies.

But he wants to WIN. And the Christo-Fascists are the ones who adopted him in the summer of '16 (Pence) so he follows their orders obediently. He's dangerous because he will throw anyone under the bus for a few votes: family, friends, colleagues...

Trump has never expressed any negative opinion of Gays. In fact he praised them after Pulse.

The only thing he has done is declare that there are only two bio genders. Which is true. Trans is not a gender, sorry.

r167 Obama issued a series of Executive Orders (EO 13672). This is what happens when you count on an EO, which is inherently fragile instead of going through the complete congressional process of passing law. Any succeeding President can strike out an EO. They exist at the whim of the Executive.

This is the frailty of the current body politic that celebrates any President who signs EOs instead of doing actual work. Congress gets a pass. Its nonsense and everyone wins by leveraging the blame game. Both parties love the pass buck/get a buck game because the other party is always the bad guy, and gets to be the bete noir for fundraising. Each back scratches the other; each hand washes the other.

One party good and the other evil? You're out of your mind. They're the same. If you think voting Green or Dem Socialist changes anything - you're even more deluded.

Exactly, r172 - and with midterms coming up, he needs to rile up his Christo-fascist base. This issue is like catnip to them.

Transwomen are incarcerated at a rate of 19.3%, actual women at 1% (from the US government itself)

See, sometimes facts get in the way of your fairytales, Trans kids.

One in five of those sweet, harmless, "I just want to pee" Trans Ladies, will serve time.

In fact, white males only have a 5% rate of incarceration, meaning Transwomen are more likely to be jailed than even biologically male White Demons.

[quote] Overall, 19.3% of transgender women respondents reported having ever been in jail/prison in their lifetime. In a multivariable model with sociodemographics (Table 1, Model 1), respondents with a history of incarceration were somewhat more likely to be binary gender-identified and significantly more likely to be people of color, have low income, have lower educational attainment, be publicly insured or uninsured compared to privately insured, and to have been sampled in-person compared to online. No significant differences in geographic region or medical gender affirmation between transgender women with and without history of incarceration.

R176 they will just say that trans were railroaded. The system working against them. You can't argue with these people.

Yeah but its good to get this information out there. 60 out of the 120 transwomen prisoners in the UK are there for sex crimes. What proportion of women are in prison for the same thing?

One of the (male and Black) authors of the UK's Equality Act has come out against self-identification for transgenders; Trevor Phillips was chairman of the UK Equalities and Human Rights Commission 2006-12

[quote] I can only imagine that many of those supporting this insanity believe that they are displaying empathy for a group of individuals who have suffered genuine anguish. But this is certainly not what I had in mind when, along with the other authors of the 2010 Equality Act, we fought to include transgender as a protected characteristic in anti-discrimination law. The truth is that, far from encouraging empathy, extreme trans activists and their allies are adding a new layer of cruelty by raising false hopes that changing gender could become as easy as changing a name. The problem is this: if self-declaration becomes established as a principle for one protected characteristic — gender — why should it not apply to all of the other eight, including disability or race? It is hard to see how the law could resist the claims of a man who, despite all medical advice to the contrary, decides that he is mentally disabled, and therefore should be eligible for disability benefits and time off work. The human and financial costs would be horrendous. I can already hear outrage at the comparison. The activists will complain that equating gender with disability is yet another example of galloping transphobia. But why shouldn’t a society ask individuals to pass objective tests to acquire identity status? Without criteria other than personal preference, it would be impossible to decide whether some groups truly suffer disadvantage — a big issue for women and people of colour. The measurement of gender and ethnic pay gaps would become instantly unviable, since no one could be sure that those who declared themselves to be black women actually were either black or female.

We as gay men need to take it to the streets. Imagine 100,000 gay men hitting the streets. Special uniforms, whatever we have to do.

You're going to hit the streets in order to protest educational opportunities being given back to the biological women that they were intended for, R180?

[quote]See, sometimes facts get in the way of your fairytales, Trans kids. One in five of those sweet, harmless, "I just want to pee" Trans Ladies, will serve time.

Wow.... That's the conclusion you're drawing from that study? Seriously? You really cannot read, can you?

R181 we are going to have to face the orthodoxy under Trump

Oh -Hi Trans Hag at R182! People, the Voice of Misogyny & Homophobia has arrived!

I quoted the US government's incarceration study, sweetcakes. I know you're one for quotes, Trans Hag, but, weirdly, you didn't quote this study, maybe because it shows that Transwomen are incarcerated at a rate of 19% while biological women are incarcerated at a rate of 1%

tl;dr

Out of every 5 Transwomen, 1 Transwoman will be put in jail (20%)

Out of every 100 actual women, 1 will be put in jail (1%)

Transwomen are exponentially more dangerous than biological women

[quote]Trump has never expressed any negative opinion of Gays. In fact he praised them after Pulse.

"Them"?

This is disgusting. Casual alt-righties and straights are going to think people like you are gay and blame us for supporting Trump and dividing our own community.

[quote]As for most avoided threads? The Graham Linehan thread is up to 431 posts.

All posted by the same small handful of people. Regulars generally avoid the threads like that, which is the point, as you well know. The figure skating threads here get hundreds of posts a day and they're mostly avoided, too.

[quote]Since most of the threads are deleted

Frequently because of your own shenanigans. You guys FF people who disagree with you to get them automatically banned, and you're too stupid to realize that the system deletes threads after a certain amount of posters have been FFed into oblivion.

Every time you use your multiple browsers to silence a gay regular of DL, you're putting your precious threads one step closer to deletion.

[quote]Oh -Hi Trans Hag at [R182]! People, the Voice of Misogyny & Homophobia has arrived!

LOL... And yet, you cannot find a single statement of mine that is in any way "homophobic" or "misogynistic." I do love the way your idiots just make shit up and expect us to take you seriously.

[quote]I quoted the US government's incarceration study, sweetcakes.

Yes, you did, dear, carefully avoiding all of the data that actually informed that study and the conclusions that study reached. I repeat: you really cannot read, can you?

[quote]All posted by the same small handful of people. Regulars generally avoid the threads like that, which is the point, as you well know.

Yup. I used the phrase most-avoided because that is what shows up when we have periodic threads about DL threads that people avoid. Guess which threads are right at the top of the list?

[quote]Frequently because of your own shenanigans. You guys FF people who disagree with you to get them automatically banned, and you're too stupid to realize that the system deletes threads after a certain amount of posters have been FFed into oblivion.

They are stupid, aren't they? And I love how they protest vigorously when someone dares to disagree with them on "their" threads, all the while whining about how they don't have freedom of speech. These drama queens are hilariously obtuse.

Wow, some of these people are pulling out all the stops. Let's just dive into those incarcerations, shall we? Trans people lead very difficult lives - very hard to find employment, very hard to find housing. What have many traditionally turned to in order to survive? The sex trade, prostitution, whatever you want to call it. That has been going on for generations. I used to see the trannies plying their trade in my old neighborhood on the border of Chelsea and the West Village. What's going to eventually happen to a prostitute, working the streets, whether trans or not. She will be arrested and put in jail. Better say that again. SHE WILL BE PUT IN JAIL. There's your 19% incarceration rate, if it's even a real statistic And her crime will be labeled a sex crime. That does not make trans people more dangerous. (QUICK, LOCK YOUR DOORS, HERE COMES A TRANS!) Not all crimes are created equal, buddy. I'm not afraid of being murdered or raped by an embezzler, and I'm not afraid of a prostitute. I pity her sad life, and the desperate circumstances that led her there. She is not in the same category as a rapist or a child molester - not even close.

That's what his own link showed, R189, once you dig into the details of that study R176 posted, the study he very carefully did not quote from, as it destroys the point he was desperate to make.

Something else our anti-trans lunatics will never mention: crime statistics for those states and communities where people use the facilities corresponding to their gender. The "before" and "after" statistics show no appreciable difference. Were these idiots right in their fearmongering, then assault and rape should have climbed significantly in those areas. It doesn't, which means that all of their pearl-clutching is for naught.

Your dick is not wanted in the women's room. And it's a sad standard when women need to be sexually assaulted for u to take them seriously when we both know even then you wouldn't. Ask the women in that prison in the UK where 5 were assaulted and 2 raped by a transwoman. Or the homeless shelter here where women were forced to strip down and shower with a twoman who made lewd comments towards them.

If u have any empathy towards women r190 save it for the woman with aspergers syndrome who was raped in the psychiatric ward by a transwoman. Can u imagine being her and having that done to you because leftwingers decided they could open up womens soaces for all to enter. Christ, you're awful.

All right then R186 prove it, prove it’s only a small number of people posting.

I admit being new to this “debate” but I suspect there are a lot more middle ground people posting in those threads than you think.

And still no one has ever given even a shitty explanation as to why it’s acceptable for transwomen to menace people at Pride with actual weapons. They were even rewarded for it.

If it was the Westboro baptists doing so we’d be shitting bricks and attacking them but because it’s transwomen and they’re only threatening dykes it’s okay?

I’m sure I come off as a broken record on this issue but I find it as disgusting as most maga asshole shit.

I will not ever be okay with people who claim to be part of our community walking around threatening actual literal murder for the crime of disagreement.

I note that there is no reporting of lesbian on trans crime but there have been several stories of transwomen attacking lesbians lately so who are the endangered here?

[quote]Your dick is not wanted in the women's room.

Personally, my dick has never been in the women's room.

[quote]And it's a sad standard when women need to be sexually assaulted for u to take them seriously when we both know even then you wouldn't.

And it's a sad argument that makes shit up rather than dealing with reality and dealing with I actually write.

Ah yes, and there are those stories that you idiots have told over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. You never have learned the difference between single anecdotes and actual data, have you? I repeat: The "before" and "after" crime statistics show no appreciable difference. Were these idiots right in their fearmongering, then assault and rape should have climbed significantly in those areas. It doesn't, which means that all of their pearl-clutching is for naught.

[quote]Christ, you're awful.

Yes, because the only possible way any of that would have happened is because we allow people to use the facilities that correspond to their gender identity. None of that, or anything like it, would have happened otherwise.

Christ, you're stupid.

[quote]All right then R186 prove it, prove it’s only a small number of people posting.

You can do that yourself. Go to one of their threads and start putting people on Ignore. Then count how many times you have to do that for the thread to mostly empty out.

[quote]I admit being new to this “debate” but I suspect there are a lot more middle ground people posting in those threads than you think.

Here on this thread, perhaps. On "their" threads, not so much.

[quote]And still no one has ever given even a shitty explanation as to why it’s acceptable for transwomen to menace people at Pride with actual weapons. They were even rewarded for it.

*sigh* No comment needed.

[quote]I will not ever be okay with people who claim to be part of our community walking around threatening actual literal murder for the crime of disagreement.

Ditto.

The anti-trans bigotry on this board has to be right-wingers trying to sew division in our community. Because many of the anti-trans remarks sound a lot like anti-gay ones.

See r124, R195. You're right about the remarks, regardless of the source.

Your suggestion about putting people on ignore is a good one, but I do think it should be noted that a lot of the people who post do so while openly using multiple devices or browsers. You will see in these threads a lot of people saying something like "just see what I posted at R701," and then when you use the ignore trick, they don't show up as the author of r701.

That probably means they changed browsers or devices somewhere in the middle of posting. Or maybe they have a browser that clears cookies, who knows. Either way, the ignore trick can only go so far when people are using multiple browsers, devices, etc.

Very handy for the trolls who demand proof proof proof that trolling is happening.

Respectfully (truly) R194 I think comment is needed. This behavior needs to be called out loudly.

Other than a petition to have the SF library remove the degenderettes exhibit removed I haven’t seen any condemnation of them from any quarter.

I really don’t have any hatred for actual transpeople. The performance artists behaving badly and claiming trans I have a lot of dislike for however.

I started the year firmly in the pro trans camp and to say this has been a rude awakening is an understatement.

And we know that one of the biggest anti-trans lunatics used half a dozen browsers, at least, although thankfully he appears to have moved on or toned down his presence here.

It's not even necessarily malicious, since I use two devices to post here: my laptop and my desktop.

[quote]Respectfully (truly) R194 I think comment is needed. This behavior needs to be called out loudly.

Then you go right ahead and call it out loudly. I'm going to pass, mostly because, as far as I can tell, there's nothing there that the gay community itself hasn't done before.

And you really don't do your cause any favors by engaging in hyperbole like, "walking around threatening actual literal murder for the crime of disagreement." All you're doing is establishing yourself as someone not worth taking seriously. If that was your goal, then congratulations!

I wish the pro trans posters would give me a reason to not believe the trans agenda irrevocably damages gays and lesbians, just one

I wish the anti-trans posters would give me a reason to believe the trans agenda irrevocably damages gays and lesbians. Just one.

I’ve seen the cries about Matt Bomer playing a trans character being “literal murder, that is hyperbole.

Carrying around lethal weapons including axes to intimidate women who don’t agree with them is violent and actually harmful. And it’s unacceptable.

I won’t tolerate that kind of threatening behavior from without and I certainly won’t accept it from within.

Whatever. Let's just say that your description of the events doesn't match the news reports.

R203 Lesbians being told they must surrender to their trans woman overlords and suck and worship and fondle and love the trans woman lady cocks, cause as they are woman, lesbians have to love their lady cocks....and reverse for gay men and their male vaginas maginas. This shit is untenable

See, here's the thing, R206: making up shit and coming across like the lunatic drama queen that you are really doesn't make for a compelling argument. It just makes you look like a fool.

But hey, thank you for so quickly proving my point. If that's the best you can do, and the evidence to date suggest that it is, that's just pathetic.

Which news reports?

This may be one of the most scattered and incoherent threads I've ever seen on DL, Mary!!!!

From what I have gathered by googling "Lesbians attacked by Trans activists", this whole brouhaha is between a relatively small group of very militant lesbian feminists, and a very small group of very militant trans (MTF). The very militant lesbian feminists are quite strong in their conviction that no one who was born with a penis can ever have any inkling of what someone who was born with a vagina has undergone, and therefore cannot/should not try to claim any association with them. Mind you that the VERY same lesbians are adamantly in agreement that they were never consulted when the original designation LGB was coined, and that they feel nothing in common with gay men either, do not feel that they belong in the same community, and that everything that has been achieved for their rights was done by women only, with no assistance from gay men, ever, at any time. (I'm taking that directly from their literature)

By the same token, there is a very small group of trans (MTF), called Degenderettes, who identify non-trans accepting lesbians as enemies and have threatened violence against them. The only actual reported violence thus far has been some serious pushing and shoving at Pride marches. There have been no deaths, but a number of ripped signs, and cuts and bruises on both sides.

So far, except for the THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of posts by fewer than 10 anti-trans people at DL on this topic, there's no evidence that either the wider community of lesbians or the wider community of gay men have any interest in this little turf war (a little pun there). Most gay men and lesbians comfortably socialize with one another at bars and at pride parades and festivals, while they tend to stick to their own groups for other kinds of socializing. Trans are somewhat marginalized by both, but usually not attacked. Drag queens, only a subset of Trans, are generally well-tolerated by gay men as a campy sort of entertainment, but are not considered sexually desirable by most gay men, unless they butch it up when their makeup comes off. Those who opt for trans 24/7 and go for hormonal and/or surgical options, usually go for the specialized "clientele" of married men who must harbor some sort of homosexual desires but can only act out on those when they've half-convinced themselves that they are having sex with a woman.

Trans (MTF) who are attracted to women are in a different league and a harder one. They have to find the RARE lesbian who could contemplate sex with someone who was originally a man. I know a lot of lesbians who are VERY attracted to VERY butch lesbians - but those butch lesbians were still born with a vagina. Trans (FTM), especially pre-op, are, on the other hand, VERY attractive to lesbians. (They're getting male hormones, they're super butch, but they still have female parts) Trans (FTM) who are attracted to men are not desired by gay men. I don't think that post-op parts work very well as regards erections, so that's an obstacle few gay men are willing to overlook.

Post op Trans (MTF) can only pass this hurdle with lesbians if they are convincing as women, and if they keep their surgeries/hormones secret. Otherwise they will not be accepted as lesbian and they will be rejected as sexual partners.

In an ideal world, Trans (MTF) who consider themselves lesbian would find other trans (MTF) with whom to strike up sexual relationships. And Trans (FTM) who consider themselves gay men, would find other trans (FTM) to have sex with. But those are tiny tiny dating pools, so you sympathize with their frustration.

In a certain way, trans, although their lives have always been incredibly difficult and fraught with physical danger, probably had slightly more success in previous times when gay men who needed a female companion to pass off as a wife, could live with a passable trans, and a lesbian who needed a male companion to pass off as a husband, could live with a passable trans. Now that everything is in the open, they are discovering that the further people stray from accepted societal norms, the harsher the punishment.

You write like a heterosexual male r210. Thanks for the mansplaining

R210...oh, so now Drag Queens are a "subset of Trans"? Drag Queens are men. They know they aren't women. What makes them Trans?

I knew someone was going to play the “higher incarceration rate=prostitution arrests” angle.

Explain then r189 why trans inmates have a higher percentage of being registered sex offenders than the general male prison population. Is it for all those solicitation convictions? Oops! In California, where this survey was conducted, crimes that fall under solicitation and other prostitution related offenses are not considered sex offenses and the inmate is not required to register. However, crimes like rape, sexual assault and battery, and offenses against minors DO require registration. And mind, this study was done by researcher looking to *improve* conditions for trans inmates. See page 39 dear, it’s all right there. Your “poor little match girl” hooker fantasy is just that.

I knew that the narcissistic rage of Transactivists would increase. After all Transgenderism is a Cluster B thing. I would have that FACT in my head, even if it were my own child transitioning. Along with the fact that very room that staid child walks into , they will suck the oxygen out of. This is a fight that can never be won. Not unless, Transactivists start killing off people's first borns in a quest to control people's eyes', sense of smell, ears, sense of touch. It isn't the fault of any life forn on Earth that we are imprinted since before birth with receptors that may not tell us what something is, but they certainly tell us what something is NOT. It is this gift of protection that Trans people fight against every day whether they are "benign " trans or not. I'd be fucking mental too if I ever embarked upon such a fruitless quest to control the wiring of Mother Nature. No wonder they get a "stunning"and "brave". They don't even recognise the Shade such is their delusion. No wonder the parents of these people end up capitulating to The Narrative. It is hard fighting crazy...weak hearts would find it easier to "join on." But thanks to Transactivism, I sure am more careful of what I buy and from whom. I am now extremely careful who I support with my money. I investigate companies, everything. You sponsor Trannyism. You get no money from me. I even changed my long held with the same bank account as my ex bank had jumped on the tranny band wagon.

Transactivism is not a grassroots pursuit. It is a wholly Top/Down proposition, don't care how many "POC Trans" stories they flash us in order for us to think "poor loves". It is Male, mainly white, mainly privileged paradigm. I only hope that they know that they will have to be as censoring and controlling until the Sun decides to fuck off to another galaxy and the earth shrivels. They can't control that wiring that Mother Nature has given all creatures on Earth. If a fucking dog knows the difference between a male and female human, how arrogant to think that make up and surgery will render a human unknowing, despite our skill in being able to fool ourselves in the name of self interest. That's cool, but don't you fucking dare try and bring me along in order to boost you. I won't be no backative for fuckry.

Well the OP was crossed out. So we don't have to take the subject of this OP seriously.

Just wait until biological(I hate the word cis) black women stop getting all the track and field scholarships because they are going to MTF bio boys who have shot like a rocket past the bio girls in T&F. I have been predicting for the last 9 months that the progressive left will be twisting themselves into pretzels dealing with the intersectionality pyramid and which group gets top billing.

Track scholarships are not to be underestimated in the history of making black women the most degreed group of the past few years. It has played a big part in lifting them into the middle class(although that has created a NEW problem which is a shortage of BM who are suitable partners for the educated women.)

I had this epiphany after seeing those "women" from Africa who won gold medals in the last Summer Olympics. That was one scary sight, and at the time everyone was saying, "no big deal...it won't catch on in the real world!" Well, it has, and it has caught on in nearly every sport women excel at; and in every state in the country--even Texas.

BW will not sit politely on the sidelines while they are systematically replaced in the sports world. No way, no how. I will be waiting popcorn in hand for when that fight begins in earnest.

R217 I doubt that...how many "MTF" are there who also excel at track? .00001% of population?

Transgender female Rachel McKinnon won the 2018 UCI Masters Track Cycling World Championships for the women’s 35-39 age bracket in Los Angeles on October 14.

McKinnon — who represents Canada — beat out biological females Carolien Van Herrikhuyzen of the Netherlands and Jennifer Wagner of the United States.

Some biological female athletes say trans females have an unfair competitive advantage — both because of sex hormones and due to inherent strength differences.

Rachel McKinnon said it doesn’t matter if transgender women have an unfair competitive advantage, because the most important thing is to make sure that trans individuals don’t feel oppressed.

R218 They don't need to excel. Even mediocre male athletes stand a good chance of beating females.

Just like OP was certain that W would bring back tje draft after the 2004 election

The NYT is already running trial balloon articles trying to let their readership down gently if the Blue Wave doesn't happen. I'm just so afraid of how powerful all this is. I'm just afraid.

[quote]So far, except for the THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of posts by fewer than 10 anti-trans people at DL on this topic, there's no evidence that either the wider community of lesbians or the wider community of gay men have any interest in this little turf war

That's exactly right and it's just the usual bigoted bullshit from our resident lunatics: taking one isolated incident and trying to build it into an existential crisis. Note how your factual version of events contrasts with:

[quote]And still no one has ever given even a shitty explanation as to why it’s acceptable for transwomen to menace people at Pride with actual weapons. They were even rewarded for it.

[quote]I will not ever be okay with people who claim to be part of our community walking around threatening actual literal murder for the crime of disagreement.

[quote]Carrying around lethal weapons including axes to intimidate women who don’t agree with them is violent and actually harmful. And it’s unacceptable.

[quote]Lesbians being told they must surrender to their trans woman overlords and suck and worship and fondle and love the trans woman lady cocks, cause as they are woman, lesbians have to love their lady cocks.

"Actual literal murder!!!!" "Must surrender to their trans woman overlords!!!!" "I knew that the narcissistic rage of Transactivists would increase!!!!"

R223 you have combined my posts with someone else’s. That’s pretty disingenuous.

I haven’t said anything about trans overlords and ladycocks. I didn’t use the term narcissistic rage.

I politely broke up an issue that I still haven’t seen addressed in any meaningful way.

Why are some people allowed to carry weapons at what is supposed a safe event for GLBT people with the express motivation of intimidating some of those people?

You find it okay? Fine I don’t. I’m old enough to remember being afraid to attend Pride for fear of some bat wielding asshole trying to bash me.

And to pretend that it’s just a scuffle between a few lesbians and a few transwomen is bullshit. The degenderettes use violent rhetoric like gay bashing bigots and were given a museum exhibit dedicated to them.

[quote]I politely broke up an issue that I still haven’t seen addressed in any meaningful way.

And you brought it up with ridiculous hyperbole that bore no resemblance to reality. To pretend that it is not a scuffle between a few lesbians and a few transwomen is the real bullshit, as that is precisely what it is.

I deliberately mimicked the trans hyperbole I’ve read R225.

Argue on, there is NO acceptable reason for people in this marginalized community to be threatening other equally marginalized people in the same community.

So far, R226, the "threats" appear to only be in your imagination, since you have never backed up your version of events.

[quote]I deliberately mimicked the trans hyperbole I’ve read

LOL.... Uh-huh, right. Whatever you say.

Who faces the real threat?

......

The fact that they went to fucking PRIDE with WEAPONS is the threat!

I don’t know how you don’t see that.

(standing ovation for R122)

Hyperbole

These are your words:

[quote]And still no one has ever given even a shitty explanation as to why it’s acceptable for transwomen to menace people at Pride with actual weapons. They were even rewarded for it.

[quote]I will not ever be okay with people who claim to be part of our community walking around threatening actual literal murder for the crime of disagreement.

[quote]Carrying around lethal weapons including axes to intimidate women who don’t agree with them is violent and actually harmful. And it’s unacceptable.

Sorry, but you're still full of shit.

Not as much as you.

LOL.... Oh, you poor thing.

I’m arguing that violent and threateningly behavior is unacceptable and you are arguing that it’s not...

No, you're pretending that there was "violent and threateningly behavior." There's a difference. Once you learn that difference, we might be able to have a serious discussion.

What difference?

Showing up with weapons in and of itself it threatening behavior. It doesn’t matter if they followed through with an actual hit. They went to menace.

Uh-huh, right. Thank you for admitting that there was no "violent and threateningly behavior." [sic]

Okay, whatever

You are just being deliberately obtuse.

My position is clear

Bringing weapons to an event that is supposed to be about peace, love, and tolerance where no one else is armed is threatening. The act itself is threatening.

Paging Nurse Ratched! Cleanup on Aisle R215

R218 I think you are missing the point. If a man is just so-so in track events, he can claim trans status and move across the line into women's competition, thereby winning the scholarships and the medals.

I did not mean that men who were already MTF would suddenly decide to go into women's T&F.

A person "chooses" to become a transexual, knowing full well the difficulties and pitfalls that await him/her. Gays and lesbians, on the other hand, are inherently sexually attracted to their own sex, no choice involved. So there.

[quote]I think you are missing the point. If a man is just so-so in track events, he can claim trans status and move across the line into women's competition, thereby winning the scholarships and the medals.

This has already happened in Connecticut at the high school level. Andraya Yearwood, a teen boy who takes no hormones (not that it would matter, he’s past puberty) and is “female” by self-declaration only, began sprinting for his school in the Girls 100 & 200m in 2017. He won the State Championship.

Cut to the 2018 season. Andraya is bested by the new kid off the blocks Terry Miller. Like Yearwood, Miller is also a teen boy who takes no hormones. Miller broke a Girls record that had stood for over two decades. These two boys finished 1 and 2 in their races. Neither of their best running times however, would even qualify them to sprint in the 100 or 200m in the Boys divisions.

Gay women excluded from Vancouver Dyke March- uteri are transphobic!

[quote]While we were gathering near McSpadden Park, where the march was to begin, we were approached by two members of the Vancouver Dyke March board. They told us that our T-shirts and placards excluded transwomen and since this was an “inclusive march” we would have to remove them if we wanted to participate. We were additionally told that if any of our signs, banners, or t-shirts included the venus symbol — representing “woman” — (the two interlocked venus symbols have always meant lesbian) or “XX,” symbolizing the female sex chromosome, we would also have remove them. We were warned to not touch anyone and keep our hands to ourselves. Nothing was offered in terms of how our inclusivity and safety would be protected.We respectfully declined to follow their demands to get rid of our signs and T-shirts, and proceeded in a calm, respectful, and peaceful tone, and joined the march. During the march, board members, organizers, volunteers, and their supporters — male and female — surrounded us, yelled “TERF bigots;” pointed a megaphone at us, chanting, “Tranwomen are women,” “This is an inclusive march,” and, “There is no room for hate at the Dyke March.” One particularly aggressive trans-identified male ran through our group repeatedly, yelling “Get your ‘Fuck TERFs’ pin!” in the faces of individual women in our group, and trying to hand out said pins, which we refused. Others formed a human barricade in front of us, separating us from the rest of the march, which had the effect of insulating us within the crowd of people who were harassing us, and shielding the rest of the march from witnessing this harassment. The yelling and hostility became increasingly frenzied as the march progressed and as more onlookers joined in. We were grateful it was a relatively short distance from the beginning of the march to its end destination. Notably, not a single person intervened, but approximately 10 more women quietly joined us. By the end of the march, we were 50 strong.

Was just forced to listen to Fox; Paglia was on and she and the hostess were both surpringly sane, paglia saying what we’ve been saying on here, I.e, that this move on Fatso’s part will restore girls rights at schools in terms of locker rooms and athletics.

What I had never heard before was that Paglia considers herself transgender.

The Justice Department is asking the Supreme Court to rule that businesses can discriminate against workers based on their sexual orientation and gender identity without violating federal law. The DOJ -- joined by 16 states -- say that Congress didn’t intend Title VII’s ban on sex discrimination to cover bias against lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender employees.

What did you expect, R248? We allowed all these letters to attach to gay activism, the vast majority of which have nothing to do with sexual orientation, and the rest we don’t even know what they mean.

Then the Trans, who we never wanted, start demanding legislation changes that actively disenfranchise other groups- for instance women in this case.

The trans demand changes in language- I heard today on the radio that schools will now be using Latinx. The pronoun bullshit driving everyone sane crazy.

And incredibly worrisome is the denial of science at the root of trans ideology..

But the most worrisome is this idea that if you’re a “feminine “ boy you’re actually a girl and need to cut off your balls and take a lifetime of dangerous drugs that destroy your sex drive.

All to say that smarter gays have been warning for years about a backlash and Whoops! here it is.

R176, I wonder what the porn habits are comparing women to transwomen.

One would think women would generally have the same porn habits. But from what I can tell, porn is a big part of T lives. My grandma...not so much.

R187, why so rude? Can you defend your ideology without attacking others...? Your posts escalate division. They do not foster dialog.

R189, more transwomen are in jail for sexual assault than prostitution.

One, who was convicted for child rape, was imprisoned with women. He assaulted four incarcerated women before he was kicked out of the women’s prison.

Most transwomen are straight men. Straight men are the most dangerous people on the planet. They should not be incarcerated with women. Doing so violates the human rights of women.

Remember: women are people too. Not just a costume or sex object.

R193...anyone who claims that men are women has no right to school others about “dealing with reality.”

Reality:

- anyone born male will die male.

- there’s no such thing as a “feminine penis.”

- you can’t change XY dna to XX.

- it’s impossible to change sex. Cosmetic surgery is exactly that: cosmetic.

- women require & deserve privacy from men in bathrooms & the like.

Wrong r195. I’m a lifelong liberal...openly gay for decades.

T is homophobic & misogynist.

DLers know that. Quit trying to fake people out.

Notice how r207 totally invalidates our experiences.

Kind of like straight men...🧐

R210, drag queens are not a subset of trans. Your entire post is bass ackwards.

[quote]Post op Trans (MTF) can only pass this hurdle with lesbians if they are convincing as women, and if they keep their surgeries/hormones secret.

Omg that’s rape. Literal rape.

R237, transwomen have certainly been violent to women. Remember the British grandmother whose camera was broken by a tranny?

Or the lesbian couple & their son murdered by a prominent T activist (Dana Rivers).

Before he T’d, Chelsea Manning punched a woman.

And what about the imprisoned women assaulted by the tranny?

Is women’s pain invisible to you? You have no right to determine who should be in the women’s restroom. You don’t give a shit about women’s safety...

Notice that “transwomen” are doing nothing to decrease violence against women, protect abortion rights, or equalize wages. All they care about is being in women’s spaces.

They personify the Big Bad Wolf. They are predators in women’s clothes. Never trust a kid with them. Never let your guard down around them if you’re female.

Wow, r246.

So “inclusivity” means forcing women to accept men as women or get kicked out or bullied.

Not very inclusive...to ban lesbian self-expression in a fucking dyke march.

Trans have been threatening and committing violence against gay women with the blessing of gay (or rather, formerly gay) organizations and other “woke” entities for quite a while, R259

For instance, a trans group called the Degenderettes were given an exhibit by the San Francisco public library this last Spring. The trans group displayed a barb-wire wrapped baseball bat with the stated purpose that it was to be used to beat women who didn’t endorse trans ideology. Far from being appalled the SF public library defended the trans.

Early this summer gay women were physically assaulted by trans women at the San Francisco Dyke March. The organizers sided with the women-beating trans.

For years now, lesbians have been warning about trans “lesbians “ trying to gaslight them into sleeping with their penies (lady dicks) but most gay men didn’t listen.

Now the trans insanity May well cause a rollback of gay rights and that would be a fucking tragedy especially to all the gays who worked so hard to get gays basic human rights.

R260...also last June, a lesbian was attacked leaving the Grey Fox Pub, a gay bar in St. Louis, by a group of bio females identifying as “queers.”

The lesbian complained to the bartender that she was being harassed, & he kicked her out because he didn’t want any “dyke drama.”

The lesbian was then ambushed by the “queer” women.

Guess what started the fight: the lesbian drunkenly referred to one of the, uh, “queers,” as female.

Which of course was true. But the “queer” female played the “transphobia” card, & basically the lesbian was suddenly deemed a witch or something & everyone ganged up against her.

I’m surprised they didn’t tie her up in a bag & throw her in the river to see if she could magically swim this proving her evil witch powers.

* thus proving

You can't exterminate something that doesn't exist. Trans is not real, it's just a delusion. It's physically impossible for humans to transition.